manicka | it's a nice start to better integration down the road | 12:12 |
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Madpilot | Burgwork, is random punning in Planet Ubuntu posts allowed, or am I going to have to hit you next time I see you? | 12:52 |
Burgwork | well, mdke_ did offer it up | 12:54 |
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nixternal_ | cover your eyes | 12:59 |
LaserJock | Burgwork: hahahahahaha | 01:02 |
LaserJock | I think that's the funniest thing I've seen today | 01:02 |
Burgwork | I try | 01:05 |
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Madpilot | I see that crackish "UnifiedUbuntuBranding" page is still being worked on... still don't see the point... | 01:34 |
nixternal | ya I had an epiphony once, but Konqi destroyed it! | 01:46 |
mpt | Madpilot, wow. Just, wow. | 02:31 |
Madpilot | mpt, what, the branding thing? | 02:31 |
Madpilot | or Burgwork's awful puns? | 02:31 |
mpt | The branding thing | 02:32 |
Madpilot | OS/g and OS/k... OS/WTF? | 02:32 |
mpt | He seems to be under the delusion that "Gnome" is a non-ridiculous brand name | 02:32 |
Madpilot | nevermind that Canonical would have a polite letter from Apple's lawyers... | 02:33 |
mpt | What, for OS/whatever? | 02:33 |
mpt | Why? | 02:33 |
mpt | You mean IBM's? | 02:33 |
Madpilot | probably both :) | 02:33 |
mpt | After Apple released Mac OS 8.6, they released Mac OS 9, and got a letter from some company's lawyers about some other OS called "OS 9" | 02:34 |
mpt | Anyway, the underlying logical flaw in that whole page is the clause "Ubuntu lacks a published marketing plan". | 02:35 |
mpt | Which I guess is an understandable mistake | 02:36 |
mpt | so I shouldn't be too harsh :-) | 02:36 |
bimberi | mpt: i don't understand, are you saying there _is_ a "published marketing plan"? | 03:04 |
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mpt | bimberi, no, it's a logical flaw, not a factual one. Volunteer marketing (though it is often more effective than professional marketing) usually doesn't require a plan, and the kind of marketing that companies do usually involves a plan that isn't published. | 03:28 |
bimberi | mpt: ok, undersood. So any thoughts on whether ubuntu's volunteer marketing requires a plan? | 03:35 |
bimberi | *understood | 03:35 |
mpt | bimberi, not really, my brain is quite full enough at the moment without thinking about marketing :-) | 03:45 |
bimberi | mpt: chicken! ;-) | 03:45 |
mpt | (Though I will volunteer the suggestion that the marketing team should spend less time debating a design for SpreadUbuntu, and more time on actual marketing) | 03:45 |
Madpilot | heh | 03:46 |
mpt | uh oh | 03:48 |
mpt | Can someone on Dapper, and someone on Edgy, please try opening Yelp and choosing "Help" > "Get Help Online...", and telling me whether you get a 404? | 03:49 |
bimberi | mpt: (Dapper) no 404, opens https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+sources/yelp/+gethelp | 03:54 |
mpt | weird | 03:54 |
mpt | I'm on Dapper and I get https://launchpad.net/distros///+sources/yelp/+gethelp | 03:54 |
mpt | reported bug 54212 | 04:02 |
Ubugtu | Malone bug 54212 in launchpad-integration ""Get Help Online" in Yelp goes to non-existent page" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/54212 | 04:02 |
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jsgotangco | mpt: looks fixed already | 04:40 |
jsgotangco | oh wait | 04:40 |
jsgotangco | hhe | 04:40 |
jsgotangco | crap ignore me | 04:40 |
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Madpilot | odd... X just froze on me, or somethign did, anyway | 04:52 |
Burgundavia | Madpilot: not here either | 04:56 |
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mdke_ | morning | 08:52 |
robitaille | hi mdke_ | 08:53 |
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mdke_ | manicka: hi. Yes, he got back to me and we discussed a few things | 09:07 |
mdke_ | but as for forming a team, we agreed to wait until I'd put some thoughts down | 09:07 |
manicka | ah ok. Still lots more to work out | 09:08 |
manicka | I'd like the doc-team to head up that team but that may be a sticking point | 09:08 |
mdke_ | I don't think it is a sticking point. I'd like the team to be a subteam of the UDSF team and of the wiki team | 09:09 |
mdke_ | so some people have already been interested in it? | 09:09 |
manicka | from what KB tells me, yes | 09:10 |
mdke_ | ah good, you had a discussion with him? | 09:10 |
manicka | he thinks Andrew Zajac and Travis Newman will be interested from the forums | 09:10 |
manicka | we had a lengthy chat yes | 09:11 |
manicka | our current falling out makes communication difficult though | 09:11 |
mdke_ | ah | 09:11 |
manicka | he also mentioned some other forum members as being interested | 09:12 |
manicka | the only sticking point for me would be working as a subset of udsf... wiki team, no problems | 09:12 |
manicka | but I'll just have to work with that I guess | 09:13 |
manicka | if it comes to bear | 09:13 |
mdke_ | the whole point would be as a bridge between the two initiatives | 09:13 |
manicka | yes, i know | 09:13 |
manicka | but as i have no interest in the udsf at this point it will be a challenging role for me | 09:14 |
manicka | but workable | 09:14 |
jsgotangco | \0/ GO MANICKA \0/ | 09:14 |
mdke_ | I'm sure it will be fine | 09:14 |
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manicka | as long as i can see a long term goal of integration with the wiki I can work with it | 09:16 |
Madpilot | we talking about combining the UDSF's wiki & the official one? | 09:16 |
mdke_ | Madpilot: no. | 09:16 |
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manicka | no | 09:16 |
mdke_ | the idea is simply to set up a team which can integrate some material from the forum/UDSF onto the help wiki | 09:17 |
Madpilot | ah, OK | 09:17 |
manicka | I'm more interested in what happens after that task is completed, but that can wait for another day | 09:18 |
mdke | it's not really a task that gets completed, I wouldn't have thought. material is always being added to the forum, and the help wiki always needs improvement :) | 09:18 |
manicka | yes, agreed | 09:19 |
mdke | I'd like to move forward with some ideas about improving the help wiki too. | 09:19 |
manicka | i guess i meant after the bulk of the porting is done of existing material. the teams focus would then be on keeping the movement of info from the forums to the wiki | 09:20 |
manicka | and improving the wiki :) | 09:20 |
manicka | I really like the work that has been done in the last 6 months | 09:20 |
mdke | right. | 09:20 |
mdke | if you have any ideas about how the wiki looks right now and how to improve it, mail them to the list | 09:21 |
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manicka | will do | 09:21 |
manicka | ok | 09:21 |
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mhz | hy all | 04:52 |
mhz | I had to stop by beacuse I am kind of clueless about this: | 04:52 |
mhz | Why Edubuntu Handbook is not using an official repo? | 04:53 |
mhz | I know Susan mentioned during last EHB meeting that everytime there was a meeting, domeone from DocTeam would give diff version opinions "Yes, you should use official repo" / "No, you should not use official repo" | 04:54 |
mhz | The reason I am asking here instead of emailng Susan is that next EHB meeting starts in 5 minutes | 04:54 |
mhz | so I doubt she'll have time to answer me | 04:55 |
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pygi | mdke_, poke | 05:25 |
mdke_ | mhz: we're told that the idea is for the handbook to use the docteam repo | 05:25 |
mdke_ | pygi: pink | 05:25 |
pygi | we WILL USE docteam repo :P | 05:25 |
pygi | I hoped I made it clear in 10000001 time (the number of time I was explaining that :P) | 05:26 |
mdke_ | mhz: ^^ | 05:26 |
pygi | mdke_, why not being in meeting? :P | 05:26 |
mdke_ | pygi: I'm at work | 05:27 |
mhz | okis | 05:27 |
pygi | oh,oki, sorry then :) | 05:27 |
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Burgwork | mdke_, you know how sabdfl raised the idea of a doc team sprint last cycle? shall we do that this cycle, for the book integration? | 06:48 |
mdke_ | Burgwork: might be a nice idea. Not specifically for book integration I think, but there must be plenty of things. Wiki integration, help system organisation, etc | 07:01 |
mdke_ | gtg home now | 07:01 |
Burgwork | mdke_, absolutely, but the book is a big item | 07:02 |
LaserJock | have we decided what we want to do with the book? | 07:03 |
LaserJock | just merge stuff together? | 07:03 |
LaserJock | do we need more than the excerpts? | 07:03 |
Burgwork | I would just merge | 07:04 |
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mdke_ | Burgwork: I wonder actually how much merging is going to be appropriate. After all, we know that it's written with a totally different style, and much of the material is there already. We should definitely take a look though | 08:09 |
mvirkkil | Does Andreas Lloyd hang out here? | 08:12 |
mdke_ | mvirkkil: yeah he does sometimes. | 08:12 |
mvirkkil | mdke_: What's his nick? | 08:12 |
mdke_ | lloydino or something similar, best to check launchpad | 08:12 |
mdke_ | ah | 08:12 |
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mdke_ | lloydinho | 08:12 |
mdke_ | mvirkkil: how's it going? got some book2moin going at all? | 08:13 |
Burgwork | mdke_, yep, but there are a lot of holes we could patch with it | 08:14 |
mvirkkil | mdke_: I've fixed the bug you found, but I haven't made any real progress for a while. I'm going to be doing something of a "sprint" next week starting somewhere around tuesday or wednesday. | 08:14 |
jjesse | did the wiki get a big update or something? | 08:14 |
jjesse | using the kubuntu theme it looks like half the pages didn't load | 08:15 |
mvirkkil | mdke_: And continuing until sunday. | 08:15 |
mdke_ | mvirkkil: yay! | 08:15 |
mdke_ | jjesse: not that I heard about | 08:15 |
mdke_ | mvirkkil: if you want someone to test anything something in the middle of your sprint, lemme know :) | 08:15 |
mdke_ | mvirkkil: especially if you have some book action | 08:16 |
mvirkkil | mdke_: As it turns out I've been one of the programmer for organizing http://www.assembly.org/2006/ | 08:16 |
mvirkkil | mdke_: The xref stuff is _extremely_ complicated to get right. | 08:16 |
mdke_ | yeah | 08:16 |
mdke_ | i can imagine | 08:17 |
mvirkkil | mdke_: I think I have an idea for solving it. I'm hoping that the project would be feature complete by sunday next week (1.5 weeks from now). | 08:17 |
mvirkkil | mdke_: So that I could simply be fixing bugs and adding documentation. | 08:17 |
mvirkkil | mdke_: and unit tests. | 08:18 |
mdke_ | mvirkkil: good luck, and if I can help, let me know | 08:18 |
mvirkkil | mdke_: Thanks :) I'll probably be actively pestering people to try stuff out next week :) | 08:20 |
mvirkkil | mdke_: I have a week off from my real job, so I'll hopefully have more energy to concentrate on this. | 08:21 |
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Burgwork | lloydinho, mvirkkil was looking for you | 09:38 |
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jjesse | wow the wiki is running sloooooooooowwwwwww for me | 09:57 |
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lloydinho | yeah, I've given up on it completely for tonight... | 10:00 |
lloydinho | hey LaserJock, you here? | 10:01 |
LaserJock | yeah | 10:01 |
lloydinho | I've been gathering the various "Contribute" stuff off the wiki, and hope to a draft of the Contribute article tomorrow.. | 10:02 |
lloydinho | Is there anything special I should take into consideration about this? | 10:02 |
lloydinho | *to do a draft* | 10:03 |
LaserJock | I'm guessing not | 10:04 |
lloydinho | okay. Well, my plan was this: | 10:04 |
lloydinho | I do a rough first draft. | 10:04 |
lloydinho | You have a look at it and add/change some stuff. | 10:04 |
lloydinho | Then we go over it together in Gobby and iron out the creases. | 10:05 |
LaserJock | sure | 10:05 |
lloydinho | Goody! | 10:05 |
LaserJock | I'm thinking we want to keep it simple with an overview of what contributing means and areas that people can contribute too | 10:05 |
lloydinho | yeah, are you familiar with the HelpingUbuntu wiki page? | 10:06 |
LaserJock | little bit, let me pull it up | 10:07 |
Burgwork | lloydinho, are you looking at merging the /community/contribute page with the HelpingUbuntu page? | 10:07 |
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Burgwork | lloydinho_, are you looking at merging the /community/contribute page with the HelpingUbuntu page? | 10:08 |
Burgwork | (figured you might have missed it) | 10:08 |
LaserJock | we are looking at creating a "Contributing to Ubuntu" article to go in yelp | 10:09 |
LaserJock | and khelpcenter if we can get it to work | 10:09 |
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Burgwork | ah | 10:09 |
LaserJock | as a top level doc that would have the Packaging Guide in it | 10:09 |
lloydinho__ | that is so strange. | 10:09 |
Burgwork | can you look at the website as well? | 10:10 |
lloydinho__ | I don't know why Xchat keeps on crashing on me.. | 10:10 |
Burgwork | it only make sense that all three are the same | 10:10 |
LaserJock | yeah, I've seen the website and the wiki | 10:10 |
Burgwork | ultimately, I want the wiki page to die | 10:10 |
Burgwork | redirect to the community/participate page | 10:11 |
LaserJock | yeah, there really isn't a reason to have it on the wiki | 10:11 |
lloydinho__ | LaserJock: I'm sorry I zoned out for a bit there - did I miss anything? | 10:11 |
LaserJock | just Burgwork ;-) | 10:11 |
lloydinho__ | oh, hi Burgwork! :-) | 10:11 |
Burgwork | Burgwork ultimately, I want the wiki page to die | 10:12 |
Burgwork | Burgwork redirect to the community/participate page | 10:12 |
lloydinho | so we want all the contribute stuff centralized, yes? | 10:12 |
lloydinho | sounds good | 10:12 |
Burgwork | yes | 10:13 |
LaserJock | yes, we seem to send mixed messages too often | 10:13 |
LaserJock | people fine more than one source for the same information, and there aren't always the same | 10:13 |
LaserJock | in fact, they are usually don't have the same content | 10:13 |
Burgwork | yep | 10:14 |
Burgwork | the webpage is slowly getting the love it needs | 10:14 |
lloydinho | I've been reading all the different teams' Contribute/Get Involved sections, and they all have different ways of approaching the new contributors... | 10:14 |
LaserJock | yeah | 10:14 |
LaserJock | it would be nice if each team had a page (that was consistent) | 10:14 |
lloydinho | For instance, the Artwork team has an open Launchpad team, and asks people to register there and for the mailing list as the first thing. | 10:14 |
LaserJock | where they could put info | 10:14 |
Burgwork | there should be a secondary landing page for each team | 10:15 |
Burgwork | that page should be on the wiki | 10:15 |
LaserJock | yeah | 10:15 |
LaserJock | you sort of need to have one page that gives the reader enough info to decide if they want to pursue further | 10:15 |
Burgwork | that is actually the harder part of the job | 10:16 |
Burgwork | as you need to interface with each team and get them to create taht page | 10:16 |
Burgwork | that is what HelpingUbuntu is supposed to be about | 10:16 |
lloydinho | Yes. Can we do a standard template for team pages that will make it easy for visitors to read and compare teams? | 10:16 |
Burgwork | sure | 10:16 |
LaserJock | Burgwork: or should we get info from teams and make the pages ourselves? | 10:16 |
lloydinho | (and will the teams be willing to use it?) | 10:16 |
Burgwork | either | 10:17 |
Burgwork | I don't think teams would mind, as long as we give lots of warning and get good feedback | 10:17 |
lloydinho | well, I suppose if we make a template, we will need to fit the various team data into that, but it might be better to let the teams do that themselves.. | 10:18 |
lloydinho | It might be an opportunity for them to reflect on how they welcome new contributors. | 10:18 |
lloydinho | And I'm still curious about how Launchpad will figure in all of this, since there are also LP team pages to consider.. | 10:19 |
Burgwork | let create the template, move one team over (say, the doc team) and invite people to give comments | 10:19 |
Burgwork | the LP pages should simply have a link to the wiki | 10:19 |
lloydinho | Right, and a one-paragraph presentation of the team (preferably the same paragraph that is the first part of the wiki page) | 10:21 |
=== pygi says hello | ||
lloydinho | I think that would be a good solution. | 10:21 |
Burgwork | hey pygi | 10:21 |
lloydinho | Hi pygi | 10:21 |
Burgwork | intro, contact, current projects | 10:21 |
pygi | hey both :) | 10:21 |
pygi | how are you Burgwork ? | 10:22 |
LaserJock | yeah, lloydinho have you looked at the MOTU | 10:22 |
Burgwork | not bad, busy | 10:22 |
LaserJock | we have been doing a lot lately with working with contibutors | 10:22 |
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lloydinho_ | gah! | 10:23 |
lloydinho_ | Burgwork: So, once the wiki stops being so dreadfully slow, we can try making that template. | 10:25 |
Burgwork | sounds good | 10:26 |
lloydinho_ | Should there be a section on what one should do to qualify as a member of the team? In general or in Launchpad? | 10:26 |
LaserJock | at some point there needs to be something | 10:27 |
LaserJock | but usually you don't need to be a member of the team to contribute | 10:27 |
LaserJock | so they shouldn't have to worry too much about that initially | 10:27 |
lloydinho_ | No, I guess not. | 10:28 |
LaserJock | but yeah, figuring out what it takes is probably pretty important at some point | 10:28 |
lloydinho_ | But when I first started out, I looked at the various teams in launchpad, and didn't know whether I had to be a member or not to contribute - so it'll probably need to be addressed somewhere | 10:29 |
LaserJock | yes, that should be in the very beginning | 10:29 |
lloydinho_ | that would mean in the team wiki page. | 10:29 |
LaserJock | I don't know of any teams where you have to be a member to contribute | 10:29 |
LaserJock | I think it should be discussed before, I think this is a general Ubuntu thing | 10:30 |
lloydinho_ | And since teams have different policies on this (again with the art team as an example) we can't say that there is just one way to do this | 10:30 |
LaserJock | well, member != contributor | 10:30 |
LaserJock | that's a distinction we need to make clear, I think | 10:30 |
lloydinho_ | I know. And that is important. Especially how we phrase this to the new budding contributors | 10:31 |
LaserJock | yeah | 10:31 |
LaserJock | because if you looked at MOTU or the doc team you would get kinda depressed because there aren't that many | 10:32 |
LaserJock | so it must be *really* hard to get on the teams in order to contribute | 10:32 |
lloydinho_ | Because LP seems to formalize something that usually is a kind of vague social tie in a very "are you in my Friends network or not" kind of way. | 10:32 |
LaserJock | I've heard that kind of thing before | 10:32 |
lloydinho_ | The MOTU team is special, since those members are approved by the technical board. | 10:33 |
LaserJock | yes | 10:33 |
lloydinho_ | Really, the MOTU LP page should be saying that loud and clear instead of merely referring to the MOTU recruitment page. | 10:34 |
LaserJock | yes | 10:34 |
lloydinho_ | https://launchpad.net/people/motu | 10:34 |
LaserJock | well, the thing is for us, is that nobody should be coming to MOTU through LP | 10:34 |
crimsun | ok, let's clear up some stuff. | 10:34 |
LaserJock | and perhaps that is perhaps a bad assumption | 10:35 |
LaserJock | ack, that's another thing | 10:35 |
crimsun | #1. https://launchpad.net/people/motu is not the MOTU group. It needs to state that explicitly. It was a bug triaging group that is now obsolete. | 10:35 |
LaserJock | yeah | 10:35 |
LaserJock | we should ask for that to be removed | 10:35 |
lloydinho_ | huh? I search for MOTU in launchpad and that is what I get? | 10:36 |
LaserJock | yep | 10:36 |
LaserJock | the real MOTU team is ubuntu-dev | 10:36 |
LaserJock | on LP | 10:36 |
lloydinho_ | ah, of course. | 10:36 |
LaserJock | as opposed to ubuntu-core-dev for the Main guys | 10:36 |
crimsun | #2. State unequivocally that people need not be part of any LP team to contribute. Instead, introduce the various LP teams as "bug triaging" groups. In other words, ubuntu-doc will address bugs for the documentation. | 10:36 |
lloydinho_ | Well, that's another misunderstanding waiting to happen (again) | 10:36 |
LaserJock | crimsun: I don't think most teams view it as "bug triaging" | 10:37 |
LaserJock | perhaps that is something that should change | 10:37 |
crimsun | LaserJock: no, but we /should/ | 10:37 |
crimsun | it's the easiest way to address LP teams, really | 10:37 |
LaserJock | it is an artifact of LP I think | 10:38 |
LaserJock | since it isn't just Malone | 10:38 |
LaserJock | translation teams, for instance, are basically concerned with Rosetta | 10:38 |
LaserJock | we have upstream product teams | 10:38 |
LaserJock | we have all kinds of teams | 10:38 |
LaserJock | it's a zoo | 10:38 |
crimsun | for instance, I'm not a ubuntu-doc member, but I've contributed to documentation [bugs] | 10:38 |
crimsun | I'm a ubuntu-dev member, and I contribute to universe & multiverse [bugs] | 10:39 |
LaserJock | hehe | 10:39 |
crimsun | I'm a ubuntu-core-dev member, and I contribute to main, universe & multiverse [bugs] | 10:39 |
LaserJock | you do contribute to universe bugs for sure ;-) | 10:39 |
LaserJock | well, but isn't that very Malone-centric | 10:39 |
crimsun | I'm not a kernel-team member, but I contribute to linux-source [bugs] | 10:40 |
lloydinho_ | But you do packaging as well, I suppose - also through your ubuntu-dev membership, right? | 10:40 |
crimsun | lloydinho_: tasks, I think, are only a very small portion of how to view LP teams | 10:40 |
LaserJock | lloydinho_: what he is saying, I think, is that we can think of everything in terms of bugs (or tasks) | 10:40 |
crimsun | the point here is that LP teams signify a certain ownership of bug triaging participation | 10:40 |
LaserJock | I just don't know that I can agree with that though | 10:41 |
LaserJock | because Malone is only a part of LP | 10:41 |
LaserJock | and bugs live in Malone | 10:41 |
LaserJock | you can have many teams that never touch Malone | 10:41 |
crimsun | sure, then substitute the appropriate action | 10:41 |
crimsun | Malone teams on LP -> bug triaging | 10:42 |
crimsun | Rosetta teams -> trans | 10:42 |
crimsun | etc. | 10:42 |
LaserJock | I think of most of the teams as being "social collections" with a few important ones actually being "access teams" | 10:42 |
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crimsun | I prefer to omit the idea of 'access/privilege' completely when introducing an LP novice | 10:43 |
LaserJock | there are a lot of artwork and documentation teams that don't use LP for anything but organizing the team | 10:43 |
lloydinho | (Okay, I'll be trying GAIM instead now.. this is really strange..) | 10:43 |
lloydinho | Marketing does specs for the different projects that they've got going. | 10:43 |
crimsun | I think of stuff as in "wanna help? here are people [on such and such team] that can assist." | 10:43 |
LaserJock | I prefer not to introduce the novice to LP | 10:44 |
LaserJock | I think that is the job of the wiki, mailing lists, and IRC | 10:44 |
LaserJock | LP doesn't give enough information | 10:44 |
lloydinho | well, we need to address Launchpad somewhere. | 10:44 |
crimsun | LP is not sufficient, but it's necessary. | 10:44 |
lloydinho | "it's this really huge complex beast that you don't need to worry much about, but one day you will learn its secrets..." | 10:45 |
LaserJock | I think that the teams should do that, in their specific way. I don't think general contributing docs need to address LP other than to say it exists and what it is used for | 10:45 |
lloydinho | "... and then you too will be a master." | 10:45 |
crimsun | then what /is/ LP used for? | 10:45 |
LaserJock | stuff | 10:46 |
LaserJock | ;-) | 10:46 |
crimsun | I couldn't even attempt to summarise it | 10:46 |
LaserJock | I would do it probably in terms of the different sections | 10:46 |
LaserJock | like "Rosseta is used for translating documents and programs into various languages" | 10:46 |
lloydinho | Trying to explain all of Launchpad to any new F/OSS contributor is almost impossible, I think. | 10:47 |
crimsun | "...where each Rosetta team is..." | 10:47 |
LaserJock | the problem is that the teams can really mean various things | 10:47 |
LaserJock | the teams aren't really tied to any specific section of LP | 10:47 |
lloydinho | you can explain each of the elements (maybe. at least Rosetta, Blueprint and Malone), but not all of them together. | 10:47 |
lloydinho | And definitely not how the different teams use them. | 10:48 |
LaserJock | there isn't anything that says "this is a Malone team" other than if you but -bugs in the name or something | 10:48 |
LaserJock | s/but/put/ | 10:48 |
crimsun | that's why it's critical to explain what each component's teams do. It doesn't have to be done up front, but it does have to be done. | 10:49 |
LaserJock | you can literally make any team for *any* purpose | 10:49 |
LaserJock | but how do you explain something that doesn't exist? | 10:49 |
LaserJock | I guess we can kinda do it ourselves | 10:49 |
lloydinho | yes. And as long as there is no way to differentiate between the teams, it will be even more difficult. | 10:49 |
crimsun | I think you mean to ask "How do you enumerate something that's countably infinite?" | 10:50 |
lloydinho | hah | 10:50 |
lloydinho | It would certainly help if a new user didn't have to deal with *all of launchpad* when they begin. | 10:51 |
crimsun | they really don't. They just register if they want. | 10:51 |
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lloydinho | they'll still start out at the front page of launchpad, | 10:51 |
crimsun | There are plenty of contributors who refuse to register on LP, actually. | 10:52 |
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LaserJock | I think it might be a bit misleading to give LP teams structure that doesn't really exist. I think it is better the get the person plugged into the team itself, not it's LP manifestation | 10:52 |
LaserJock | then the team can explain what LP is used for in their team | 10:52 |
crimsun | LaserJock: but then you have to explain what a team is, which brings you back to square one. | 10:53 |
LaserJock | let the teams explain it | 10:53 |
crimsun | so you're going to say "Join an LP team, and ask team X what its purpose is"? | 10:53 |
LaserJock | I just don't see how we can make an all-inclusive statement about what LP teams are | 10:53 |
lloydinho | well, that will return us to the question of the different teams offering different and potentially misleading information about teams in general are. | 10:54 |
LaserJock | no, I say ditch "Join an LP team". It isn't needed | 10:54 |
LaserJock | I think explaining what the various LP components are used for is much more helpful | 10:54 |
crimsun | well, /if/ you choose to cover 'LP teams' at all, you could of course just say that a team is a collection of e-mail addresses. | 10:54 |
lloydinho | a collection of launchpad users? | 10:55 |
LaserJock | something like that, we could go into more I suppose, but since really LP team really don't have anything to do with getting a person to contribute | 10:56 |
LaserJock | I don't think we need to worry a ton about it | 10:56 |
crimsun | eventually it will need to be addressed | 10:56 |
crimsun | what else is being considered for the 'portal'? | 10:56 |
LaserJock | yes, but I think that might be better left to the teams themselves | 10:56 |
lloydinho | Hm. Yes. people will ask about it. But I suppose we can let that be addressed by the teams.. | 10:57 |
crimsun | the first question I have as a new user is "why have a team at all?" | 10:57 |
crimsun | anyhow, that's enough about LP | 10:58 |
crimsun | what other vectors are there for new Ubuntu contributors? | 10:59 |
lloydinho | (It's strange because most of the social structures fell in place before LP opened, and now a parallel structure is appearing in LP. Messy..!) | 11:00 |
lloydinho | vectors? As in where will people look and what will they need to know in order to contribute? | 11:01 |
crimsun | sure | 11:05 |
crimsun | the question is perhaps better phrased as "How can I contribute?" | 11:05 |
ompaul | whats with the speed of the wiki? | 11:05 |
lloydinho | well, that was basically the name of the doc that LaserJock and I are going to write.. | 11:06 |
crimsun | lloydinho: right, but how else can I contribute? | 11:08 |
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nixternal | whats a good professional looking font for a business card? | 11:09 |
crimsun | meaning "suppose I'm a new user, and I'd like to know where to jump in" | 11:09 |
ompaul | nixternal, that actually depends on the quantity of text and the design on the card, generally a serif is a nice professional touch | 11:10 |
nixternal | the Ubuntu Business Card..i have an event tonight, I would like to give a couple out with CDs so people can contact me for support and direction | 11:10 |
ompaul | crimsun, then I would have to ask you a two part question, what can you do, and what would you like to do? | 11:11 |
crimsun | lloydinho: do you feel that's answerable by the new docs you're constructing? | 11:11 |
ompaul | nixternal, use something from the "examples" with 6.06 | 11:12 |
nixternal | hmm, let me look in there | 11:12 |
lloydinho | crimsun: That was the plan, yes. | 11:13 |
lloydinho | We want a one-stop reference that we can add to the System docs that ship with Ubuntu. | 11:14 |
lloydinho | That will give enough stable information to get people involved with what they feel capable of contributing to. | 11:15 |
crimsun | ok, I'm obviously not making myself clear. I'm asking what have you covered, and where are you looking now? | 11:17 |
lloydinho | Um. We have only just started. I'll be writing the first draft tomorrow. | 11:18 |
lloydinho | What I have done so far is taking all of the various scraps of "Get Involved" and "Helping Out" pages on the Website and the wiki, and I want to use that as a base to make a solid document. | 11:19 |
crimsun | Ok, and that covers which major vectors into Ubuntu? | 11:19 |
crimsun | (art? translation? packaging? bug triaging? etc.) | 11:20 |
lloydinho | advocacy, Doc team, wiki team, artwork, marketing, general testing, laptop testing, server testing, the bugsquad, desktop team, serverteam, the MOTUs... | 11:21 |
nixternal | don't forget about Ubuntu Chicago ;) | 11:21 |
lloydinho | though, advocacy and marketing might be the same thing, I don't know. | 11:21 |
lloydinho | heh. Yes. I need something on LoCo teams as well. | 11:22 |
lloydinho | ;-) | 11:22 |
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lloydinho | ... and the various community support as well, of course. | 11:24 |
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crimsun | lloydinho: ok, looking forward to it | 11:25 |
lloydinho | thanks, crimsun - it sounds like you'll have a lot of good input on this, when it gets closer to completion. So, do not hesitate to add your comments when we get a draft out on the wiki... | 11:27 |
LaserJock | hehe, I sense a bit of "I'll believe it when I see it" in there crimsun ;-) | 11:27 |
crimsun | no | 11:28 |
lloydinho | heh, well given the current state of the "Contribute" docs, I wouldn't blame you.. :-) | 11:28 |
LaserJock | well, I wonder how we can pull it off | 11:29 |
crimsun | I'm trying to envision as many nodes as possible that can be collapsed | 11:29 |
LaserJock | yeah | 11:29 |
LaserJock | I think it's a worth-while effort though | 11:29 |
LaserJock | that can evolve as we go | 11:29 |
crimsun | it's definitely worthwhile, and it will have to evolve since Ubuntu evolves | 11:30 |
lloydinho | Yes, I've been thinking about that. At moment, the most common distinction of ways to contribute seems to be between "technical" and "non-technical" which is slightly mis-leading. | 11:30 |
LaserJock | yeah, I'd rather focus on what people are naturally interested in | 11:31 |
LaserJock | but it's hard because you ask somebody, "What areas do you interested in?" and you get "I don't know, I just wanna help" | 11:31 |
lloydinho | exactly. | 11:31 |
LaserJock | but I think that's perhaps more of a lack-of-information problem than anything | 11:32 |
lloydinho | People don't really build a set idea of what they want to do before they say they want to contribute. | 11:32 |
lloydinho | The important thing would be to have a list of projects for every team that people can look at and go "Hey, I can help with that!" | 11:33 |
LaserJock | yeah | 11:33 |
lloydinho | You'd need to know the community a lot better to be able to start up a whole new project on your own. | 11:34 |
lloydinho | Because you might end up spending a lot of effort on something that nobody else agrees with. | 11:34 |
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Burgwork | indeed | 11:36 |
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lloydinho | anyway, it's time for bed. See ya next week. | 11:40 |
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skora | Is there a ubuntu irc channel for PPC ? | 11:41 |
pygi | skora, not really, just use #ubuntu I would say | 11:41 |
Burgwork | skora, not really. If you need help, try #ubuntu | 11:41 |
skora | k | 11:41 |
pygi | Burgwork, !!! | 11:41 |
pygi | :) | 11:41 |
Burgwork | pygi, fools seldom differ ;) | 11:42 |
pygi | Burgwork, hehe :) | 11:45 |
nixternal | the wiki picks the best times to not work doesn't it | 11:55 |
nixternal | arg, and help.ubuntu.com | 11:56 |
Burgwork | most of the time it works | 11:56 |
Burgwork | http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/27/london.blackout/index.html | 11:56 |
Burgwork | that might explain it | 11:56 |
nixternal | ya, but an hour b4 i have to give a presentation ;) | 11:56 |
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