/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/07/27/#ubuntu-doc.txt

manickait's a nice start to better integration down the road12:12
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MadpilotBurgwork, is random punning in Planet Ubuntu posts allowed, or am I going to have to hit you next time I see you?12:52
Burgworkwell, mdke_ did offer it up12:54
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nixternal_cover your eyes12:59
LaserJockBurgwork: hahahahahaha01:02
LaserJockI think that's the funniest thing I've seen today01:02
BurgworkI try01:05
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MadpilotI see that crackish "UnifiedUbuntuBranding" page is still being worked on... still don't see the point...01:34
nixternalya I had an epiphony once, but Konqi destroyed it!01:46
mptMadpilot, wow. Just, wow.02:31
Madpilotmpt, what, the branding thing?02:31
Madpilotor Burgwork's awful puns?02:31
mptThe branding thing02:32
MadpilotOS/g and OS/k... OS/WTF?02:32
mptHe seems to be under the delusion that "Gnome" is a non-ridiculous brand name02:32
Madpilotnevermind that Canonical would have a polite letter from Apple's lawyers...02:33
mptWhat, for OS/whatever?02:33
mptWhy?02:33
mptYou mean IBM's?02:33
Madpilotprobably both :)02:33
mptAfter Apple released Mac OS 8.6, they released Mac OS 9, and got a letter from some company's lawyers about some other OS called "OS 9"02:34
mptAnyway, the underlying logical flaw in that whole page is the clause "Ubuntu lacks a published marketing plan".02:35
mptWhich I guess is an understandable mistake02:36
mptso I shouldn't be too harsh :-)02:36
bimberimpt: i don't understand, are you saying there _is_ a "published marketing plan"?03:04
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mptbimberi, no, it's a logical flaw, not a factual one. Volunteer marketing (though it is often more effective than professional marketing) usually doesn't require a plan, and the kind of marketing that companies do usually involves a plan that isn't published.03:28
bimberimpt: ok, undersood.  So any thoughts on whether ubuntu's volunteer marketing requires a plan?03:35
bimberi*understood03:35
mptbimberi, not really, my brain is quite full enough at the moment without thinking about marketing :-)03:45
bimberimpt: chicken! ;-)03:45
mpt(Though I will volunteer the suggestion that the marketing team should spend less time debating a design for SpreadUbuntu, and more time on actual marketing)03:45
Madpilotheh03:46
mptuh oh03:48
mptCan someone on Dapper, and someone on Edgy, please try opening Yelp and choosing "Help" > "Get Help Online...", and telling me whether you get a 404?03:49
bimberimpt: (Dapper) no 404, opens https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+sources/yelp/+gethelp03:54
mptweird03:54
mptI'm on Dapper and I get https://launchpad.net/distros///+sources/yelp/+gethelp03:54
mptreported bug 5421204:02
UbugtuMalone bug 54212 in launchpad-integration ""Get Help Online" in Yelp goes to non-existent page" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5421204:02
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jsgotangcompt: looks fixed already04:40
jsgotangcooh wait04:40
jsgotangcohhe04:40
jsgotangcocrap ignore me04:40
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Madpilotodd... X just froze on me, or somethign did, anyway04:52
BurgundaviaMadpilot: not here either04:56
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mdke_morning08:52
robitaillehi mdke_ 08:53
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mdke_manicka: hi. Yes, he got back to me and we discussed a few things09:07
mdke_but as for forming a team, we agreed to wait until I'd put some thoughts down09:07
manickaah ok. Still lots more to work out09:08
manickaI'd like the doc-team to head up that team but that may be a sticking point09:08
mdke_I don't think it is a sticking point. I'd like the team to be a subteam of the UDSF team and of the wiki team09:09
mdke_so some people have already been interested in it?09:09
manickafrom what KB tells me, yes09:10
mdke_ah good, you had a discussion with him?09:10
manickahe thinks Andrew Zajac and Travis Newman will be interested from the forums09:10
manickawe had a lengthy chat yes09:11
manickaour current falling out makes communication difficult though09:11
mdke_ah09:11
manickahe also mentioned some other forum members as being interested09:12
manickathe only sticking point for me would be working as a subset of udsf... wiki team, no problems09:12
manickabut I'll just have to work with that I guess09:13
manickaif it comes to bear09:13
mdke_the whole point would be as a bridge between the two initiatives09:13
manickayes, i know09:13
manickabut as i have no interest in the udsf at this point it will be a challenging role for me09:14
manickabut workable09:14
jsgotangco\0/ GO MANICKA \0/09:14
mdke_I'm sure it will be fine09:14
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manickaas long as i can see a long term goal of integration with the wiki I can work with it09:16
Madpilotwe talking about combining the UDSF's wiki & the official one?09:16
mdke_Madpilot: no.09:16
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manickano09:16
mdke_the idea is simply to set up a team which can integrate some material from the forum/UDSF onto the help wiki09:17
Madpilotah, OK09:17
manickaI'm more interested in what happens after that task is completed, but that can wait for another day09:18
mdkeit's not really a task that gets completed, I wouldn't have thought. material is always being added to the forum, and the help wiki always needs improvement :)09:18
manickayes, agreed09:19
mdkeI'd like to move forward with some ideas about improving the help wiki too.09:19
manickai guess i meant after the bulk of the porting is done of existing material. the teams focus would then be on keeping the movement of info from the forums to the wiki09:20
manickaand improving the wiki :)09:20
manickaI really like the work that has been done in the last 6 months09:20
mdkeright.09:20
mdkeif you have any ideas about how the wiki looks right now and how to improve it, mail them to the list09:21
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manickawill do09:21
manickaok09:21
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mhzhy all04:52
mhzI had to stop by beacuse I am kind of clueless about this:04:52
mhzWhy Edubuntu Handbook is not using an official repo?04:53
mhzI know Susan mentioned during last EHB meeting that everytime there was a meeting, domeone from DocTeam would give diff version opinions "Yes, you should use official repo" /  "No, you should not use official repo"04:54
mhzThe reason I am asking here instead of emailng Susan is that next EHB meeting starts in 5 minutes04:54
mhzso I doubt she'll have time to answer me04:55
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pygimdke_, poke05:25
mdke_mhz: we're told that the idea is for the handbook to use the docteam repo05:25
mdke_pygi: pink05:25
pygiwe WILL USE docteam repo :P05:25
pygiI hoped I made it clear in 10000001 time (the number of time I was explaining that :P)05:26
mdke_mhz: ^^05:26
pygimdke_, why not being in meeting? :P05:26
mdke_pygi: I'm at work05:27
mhzokis05:27
pygioh,oki, sorry then :)05:27
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Burgworkmdke_, you know how sabdfl raised the idea of a doc team sprint last cycle? shall we do that this cycle, for the book integration?06:48
mdke_Burgwork: might be a nice idea. Not specifically for book integration I think, but there must be plenty of things. Wiki integration, help system organisation, etc07:01
mdke_gtg home now07:01
Burgworkmdke_, absolutely, but the book is a big item07:02
LaserJockhave we decided what we want to do with the book?07:03
LaserJockjust merge stuff together?07:03
LaserJockdo we need more than the excerpts?07:03
BurgworkI would just merge07:04
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mdke_Burgwork: I wonder actually how much merging is going to be appropriate. After all, we know that it's written with a totally different style, and much of the material is there already. We should definitely take a look though08:09
mvirkkilDoes Andreas Lloyd hang out here?08:12
mdke_mvirkkil: yeah he does sometimes.08:12
mvirkkilmdke_: What's his nick?08:12
mdke_lloydino or something similar, best to check launchpad08:12
mdke_ah08:12
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mdke_lloydinho08:12
mdke_mvirkkil: how's it going? got some book2moin going at all?08:13
Burgworkmdke_, yep, but there are a lot of holes we could patch with it08:14
mvirkkilmdke_: I've fixed the bug you found, but I haven't made any real progress for a while. I'm going to be doing something of a "sprint" next week starting somewhere around tuesday or wednesday.08:14
jjessedid the wiki get a big update or something?08:14
jjesseusing the kubuntu theme it looks like half the pages didn't load08:15
mvirkkilmdke_: And continuing until sunday.08:15
mdke_mvirkkil: yay!08:15
mdke_jjesse: not that I heard about08:15
mdke_mvirkkil: if you want someone to test anything something in the middle of your sprint, lemme know :)08:15
mdke_mvirkkil: especially if you have some book action08:16
mvirkkilmdke_: As it turns out I've been one of the programmer for organizing http://www.assembly.org/2006/ 08:16
mvirkkilmdke_: The xref stuff is _extremely_ complicated to get right.08:16
mdke_yeah08:16
mdke_i can imagine08:17
mvirkkilmdke_: I think I have an idea for solving it. I'm hoping that the project would be feature complete by sunday next week (1.5 weeks from now).08:17
mvirkkilmdke_: So that I could simply be fixing bugs and adding documentation.08:17
mvirkkilmdke_: and unit tests.08:18
mdke_mvirkkil: good luck, and if I can help, let me know08:18
mvirkkilmdke_: Thanks :) I'll probably be actively pestering people to try stuff out next week :)08:20
mvirkkilmdke_: I have a week off from my real job, so I'll hopefully have more energy to concentrate on this.08:21
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Burgworklloydinho, mvirkkil was looking for you09:38
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jjessewow the wiki is running sloooooooooowwwwwww for me09:57
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lloydinhoyeah, I've given up on it completely for tonight...10:00
lloydinhohey LaserJock, you here?10:01
LaserJockyeah10:01
lloydinhoI've been gathering the various "Contribute" stuff off the wiki, and hope to a draft of the Contribute article tomorrow..10:02
lloydinhoIs there anything special I should take into consideration about this?10:02
lloydinho*to do a draft*10:03
LaserJockI'm guessing not10:04
lloydinhookay. Well, my plan was this:10:04
lloydinhoI do a rough first draft.10:04
lloydinhoYou have a look at it and add/change some stuff.10:04
lloydinhoThen we go over it together in Gobby and iron out the creases.10:05
LaserJocksure10:05
lloydinhoGoody!10:05
LaserJockI'm thinking we want to keep it simple with an overview of what contributing means and areas that people can contribute too10:05
lloydinhoyeah, are you familiar with the HelpingUbuntu wiki page?10:06
LaserJocklittle bit, let me pull it up10:07
Burgworklloydinho, are you looking at merging the /community/contribute page with the HelpingUbuntu page?10:07
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Burgworklloydinho_, are you looking at merging the /community/contribute page with the HelpingUbuntu page?10:08
Burgwork(figured you might have missed it)10:08
LaserJockwe are looking at creating a "Contributing to Ubuntu" article to go in yelp10:09
LaserJockand khelpcenter if we can get it to work10:09
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Burgworkah10:09
LaserJockas a top level doc that would have the Packaging Guide in it10:09
lloydinho__that is so strange.10:09
Burgworkcan you look at the website as well?10:10
lloydinho__I don't know why Xchat keeps on crashing on me..10:10
Burgworkit only make sense that all three are the same10:10
LaserJockyeah, I've seen the website and the wiki10:10
Burgworkultimately, I want the wiki page to die10:10
Burgworkredirect to the community/participate page10:11
LaserJockyeah, there really isn't a reason to have it on the wiki10:11
lloydinho__LaserJock: I'm sorry I zoned out for a bit there - did I miss anything?10:11
LaserJockjust Burgwork ;-)10:11
lloydinho__oh, hi Burgwork! :-)10:11
BurgworkBurgwork ultimately, I want the wiki page to die10:12
BurgworkBurgwork redirect to the community/participate page10:12
lloydinhoso we want all the contribute stuff centralized, yes?10:12
lloydinhosounds good10:12
Burgworkyes10:13
LaserJockyes, we seem to send mixed messages too often10:13
LaserJockpeople fine more than one source for the same information, and there aren't always the same10:13
LaserJockin fact, they are usually don't have the same content10:13
Burgworkyep10:14
Burgworkthe webpage is slowly getting the love it needs10:14
lloydinhoI've been reading all the different teams' Contribute/Get Involved sections, and they all have different ways of approaching the new contributors...10:14
LaserJockyeah10:14
LaserJockit would be nice if each team had a page (that was consistent)10:14
lloydinhoFor instance, the Artwork team has an open Launchpad team, and asks people to register there and for the mailing list as the first thing.10:14
LaserJockwhere they could put info10:14
Burgworkthere should be a secondary landing page for each team10:15
Burgworkthat page should be on the wiki10:15
LaserJockyeah10:15
LaserJockyou sort of need to have one page that gives the reader enough info to decide if they want to pursue further10:15
Burgworkthat is actually the harder part of the job10:16
Burgworkas you need to interface with each team and get them to create taht page10:16
Burgworkthat is what HelpingUbuntu is supposed to be about10:16
lloydinhoYes. Can we do a standard template for team pages that will make it easy for visitors to read and compare teams?10:16
Burgworksure10:16
LaserJockBurgwork: or should we get info from teams and make the pages ourselves?10:16
lloydinho(and will the teams be willing to use it?)10:16
Burgworkeither10:17
BurgworkI don't think teams would mind, as long as we give lots of warning and get good feedback10:17
lloydinhowell, I suppose if we make a template, we will need to fit the various team data into that, but it might be better to let the teams do that themselves..10:18
lloydinhoIt might be an opportunity for them to reflect on how they welcome new contributors.10:18
lloydinhoAnd I'm still curious about how Launchpad will figure in all of this, since there are also LP team pages to consider..10:19
Burgworklet create the template, move one team over (say, the doc team) and invite people to give comments10:19
Burgworkthe LP pages should simply have a link to the wiki10:19
lloydinhoRight, and a one-paragraph presentation of the team (preferably the same paragraph that is the first part of the wiki page)10:21
=== pygi says hello
lloydinhoI think that would be a good solution.10:21
Burgworkhey pygi 10:21
lloydinhoHi pygi10:21
Burgworkintro, contact, current projects10:21
pygihey both :)10:21
pygihow are you Burgwork ?10:22
LaserJockyeah, lloydinho have you looked at the MOTU10:22
Burgworknot bad, busy10:22
LaserJockwe have been doing a lot lately with working with contibutors10:22
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lloydinho_gah!10:23
lloydinho_Burgwork: So, once the wiki stops being so dreadfully slow, we can try making that template.10:25
Burgworksounds good10:26
lloydinho_Should there be a section on what one should do to qualify as a member of the team? In general or in Launchpad?10:26
LaserJockat some point there needs to be something10:27
LaserJockbut usually you don't need to be a member of the team to contribute10:27
LaserJockso they shouldn't have to worry too much about that initially10:27
lloydinho_No, I guess not.10:28
LaserJockbut yeah, figuring out what it takes is probably pretty important at some point10:28
lloydinho_But when I first started out, I looked at the various teams in launchpad, and didn't know whether I had to be a member or not to contribute - so it'll probably need to be addressed somewhere10:29
LaserJockyes, that should be in the very beginning10:29
lloydinho_that would mean in the team wiki page.10:29
LaserJockI don't know of any teams where you have to be a member to contribute10:29
LaserJockI think it should be discussed before, I think this is a general Ubuntu thing10:30
lloydinho_And since teams have different policies on this (again with the art team as an example) we can't say that there is just one way to do this10:30
LaserJockwell, member != contributor10:30
LaserJockthat's a distinction we need to make clear, I think10:30
lloydinho_I know. And that is important. Especially how we phrase this to the new budding contributors10:31
LaserJockyeah10:31
LaserJockbecause if you looked at MOTU or the doc team you would get kinda depressed because there aren't that many10:32
LaserJockso it must be *really* hard to get on the teams in order to contribute10:32
lloydinho_Because LP seems to formalize something that usually is a kind of vague social tie in a very "are you in my Friends network or not" kind of way.10:32
LaserJockI've heard that kind of thing before10:32
lloydinho_The MOTU team is special, since those members are approved by the technical board.10:33
LaserJockyes10:33
lloydinho_Really, the MOTU LP page should be saying that loud and clear instead of merely referring to the MOTU recruitment page.10:34
LaserJockyes10:34
lloydinho_https://launchpad.net/people/motu10:34
LaserJockwell, the thing is for us, is that nobody should be coming to MOTU through LP10:34
crimsunok, let's clear up some stuff.10:34
LaserJockand perhaps that is perhaps a bad assumption10:35
LaserJockack, that's another thing10:35
crimsun#1. https://launchpad.net/people/motu is not the MOTU group. It needs to state that explicitly. It was a bug triaging group that is now obsolete.10:35
LaserJockyeah10:35
LaserJockwe should ask for that to be removed10:35
lloydinho_huh? I search for MOTU in launchpad and that is what I get?10:36
LaserJockyep10:36
LaserJockthe real MOTU team is ubuntu-dev10:36
LaserJockon LP10:36
lloydinho_ah, of course.10:36
LaserJockas opposed to ubuntu-core-dev for the Main guys10:36
crimsun#2. State unequivocally that people need not be part of any LP team to contribute. Instead, introduce the various LP teams as "bug triaging" groups. In other words, ubuntu-doc will address bugs for the documentation.10:36
lloydinho_Well, that's another misunderstanding waiting to happen (again)10:36
LaserJockcrimsun: I don't think most teams view it as "bug triaging"10:37
LaserJockperhaps that is something that should change10:37
crimsunLaserJock: no, but we /should/10:37
crimsunit's the easiest way to address LP teams, really10:37
LaserJockit is an artifact of LP I think10:38
LaserJocksince it isn't just Malone10:38
LaserJocktranslation teams, for instance, are basically concerned with Rosetta10:38
LaserJockwe have upstream product teams10:38
LaserJockwe have all kinds of teams10:38
LaserJockit's a zoo10:38
crimsunfor instance, I'm not a ubuntu-doc member, but I've contributed to documentation [bugs] 10:38
crimsunI'm a ubuntu-dev member, and I contribute to universe & multiverse [bugs] 10:39
LaserJockhehe10:39
crimsunI'm a ubuntu-core-dev member, and I contribute to main, universe & multiverse [bugs] 10:39
LaserJockyou do contribute to universe bugs for sure ;-)10:39
LaserJockwell, but isn't that very Malone-centric10:39
crimsunI'm not a kernel-team member, but I contribute to linux-source [bugs] 10:40
lloydinho_But you do packaging as well, I suppose - also through your ubuntu-dev membership, right?10:40
crimsunlloydinho_: tasks, I think, are only a very small portion of how to view LP teams10:40
LaserJocklloydinho_: what he is saying, I think, is that we can think of everything in terms of bugs (or tasks)10:40
crimsunthe point here is that LP teams signify a certain ownership of bug triaging participation10:40
LaserJockI just don't know that I can agree with that though10:41
LaserJockbecause Malone is only a part of LP10:41
LaserJockand bugs live in Malone10:41
LaserJockyou can have many teams that never touch Malone10:41
crimsunsure, then substitute the appropriate action10:41
crimsunMalone teams on LP -> bug triaging10:42
crimsunRosetta teams -> trans10:42
crimsunetc.10:42
LaserJockI think of most of the teams as being "social collections" with a few important ones actually being "access teams"10:42
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crimsunI prefer to omit the idea of 'access/privilege' completely when introducing an LP novice10:43
LaserJockthere are a lot of artwork and documentation teams that don't use LP for anything but organizing the team10:43
lloydinho(Okay, I'll be trying GAIM instead now.. this is really strange..)10:43
lloydinhoMarketing does specs for the different projects that they've got going.10:43
crimsunI think of stuff as in "wanna help? here are people [on such and such team]  that can assist."10:43
LaserJockI prefer not to introduce the novice to LP10:44
LaserJockI think that is the job of the wiki, mailing lists, and IRC10:44
LaserJockLP doesn't give enough information10:44
lloydinhowell, we need to address Launchpad somewhere. 10:44
crimsunLP is not sufficient, but it's necessary.10:44
lloydinho"it's this really huge complex beast that you don't need to worry much about, but one day you will learn its secrets..."10:45
LaserJockI think that the teams should do that, in their specific way. I don't think general contributing docs need to address LP other than to say it exists and what it is used for10:45
lloydinho"... and then you too will be a master."10:45
crimsunthen what /is/ LP used for?10:45
LaserJockstuff10:46
LaserJock;-)10:46
crimsunI couldn't even attempt to summarise it10:46
LaserJockI would do it probably in terms of the different sections10:46
LaserJocklike "Rosseta is used for translating documents and programs into various languages"10:46
lloydinhoTrying to explain all of Launchpad to any new F/OSS contributor is almost impossible, I think.10:47
crimsun"...where each Rosetta team is..."10:47
LaserJockthe problem is that the teams can really mean various things10:47
LaserJockthe teams aren't really tied to any specific section of LP10:47
lloydinhoyou can explain each of the elements (maybe. at least Rosetta, Blueprint and Malone), but not all of them together.10:47
lloydinhoAnd definitely not how the different teams use them.10:48
LaserJockthere isn't anything that says "this is a Malone team" other than if you but -bugs in the name or something10:48
LaserJocks/but/put/10:48
crimsunthat's why it's critical to explain what each component's teams do. It doesn't have to be done up front, but it does have to be done.10:49
LaserJockyou can literally make any team for *any* purpose10:49
LaserJockbut how do you explain something that doesn't exist?10:49
LaserJockI guess we can kinda do it ourselves10:49
lloydinhoyes. And as long as there is no way to differentiate between the teams, it will be even more difficult.10:49
crimsunI think you mean to ask "How do you enumerate something that's countably infinite?"10:50
lloydinhohah10:50
lloydinhoIt would certainly help if a new user didn't have to deal with *all of launchpad* when they begin.10:51
crimsunthey really don't. They just register if they want.10:51
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lloydinhothey'll still start out at the front page of launchpad, 10:51
crimsunThere are plenty of contributors who refuse to register on LP, actually.10:52
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LaserJockI think it might be a bit misleading to give LP teams structure that doesn't really exist. I think it is better the get the person plugged into the team itself, not it's LP manifestation10:52
LaserJockthen the team can explain what LP is used for in their team10:52
crimsunLaserJock: but then you have to explain what a team is, which brings you back to square one.10:53
LaserJocklet the teams explain it10:53
crimsunso you're going to say "Join an LP team, and ask team X what its purpose is"?10:53
LaserJockI just don't see how we can make an all-inclusive statement about what LP teams are10:53
lloydinhowell, that will return us to the question of the different teams offering different and potentially misleading information about teams in general are.10:54
LaserJockno, I say ditch "Join an LP team". It isn't needed10:54
LaserJockI think explaining what the various LP components are used for is much more helpful10:54
crimsunwell, /if/ you choose to cover 'LP teams' at all, you could of course just say that a team is a collection of e-mail addresses.10:54
lloydinhoa collection of launchpad users?10:55
LaserJocksomething like that,  we could go into more I suppose, but since really LP team really don't have anything to do with getting a person to contribute10:56
LaserJockI don't think we need to worry a ton about it10:56
crimsuneventually it will need to be addressed10:56
crimsunwhat else is being considered for the 'portal'?10:56
LaserJockyes, but I think that might be better left to the teams themselves10:56
lloydinhoHm. Yes. people will ask about it. But I suppose we can let that be addressed by the teams..10:57
crimsunthe first question I have as a new user is "why have a team at all?"10:57
crimsunanyhow, that's enough about LP10:58
crimsunwhat other vectors are there for new Ubuntu contributors?10:59
lloydinho(It's strange because most of the social structures fell in place before LP opened, and now a parallel structure is appearing in LP. Messy..!)11:00
lloydinhovectors? As in where will people look and what will they need to know in order to contribute?11:01
crimsunsure11:05
crimsunthe question is perhaps better phrased as "How can I contribute?"11:05
ompaulwhats with the speed of the wiki?11:05
lloydinhowell, that was basically the name of the doc that LaserJock and I are going to write..11:06
crimsunlloydinho: right, but how else can I contribute?11:08
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nixternalwhats a good professional looking font for a business card?11:09
crimsunmeaning "suppose I'm a new user, and I'd like to know where to jump in"11:09
ompaulnixternal, that actually depends on the quantity of text and the design on the card, generally a serif is a nice professional touch 11:10
nixternalthe Ubuntu Business Card..i have an event tonight, I would like to give a couple out with CDs so people can contact me for support and direction11:10
ompaulcrimsun, then I would have to ask you a two part question, what can you do, and what would you like to do?11:11
crimsunlloydinho: do you feel that's answerable by the new docs you're constructing?11:11
ompaulnixternal, use something from the "examples" with 6.0611:12
nixternalhmm, let me look in there11:12
lloydinhocrimsun: That was the plan, yes.11:13
lloydinhoWe want a one-stop reference that we can add to the System docs that ship with Ubuntu.11:14
lloydinhoThat will give enough stable information to get people involved with what they feel capable of contributing to.11:15
crimsunok, I'm obviously not making myself clear. I'm asking what have you covered, and where are you looking now?11:17
lloydinhoUm. We have only just started. I'll be writing the first draft tomorrow.11:18
lloydinhoWhat I have done so far is taking all of the various scraps of "Get Involved" and "Helping Out" pages on the Website and the wiki, and I want to use that as a base to make a solid document.11:19
crimsunOk, and that covers which major vectors into Ubuntu?11:19
crimsun(art? translation? packaging? bug triaging? etc.)11:20
lloydinhoadvocacy, Doc team, wiki team, artwork, marketing, general testing, laptop testing, server testing, the bugsquad, desktop team, serverteam, the MOTUs...11:21
nixternaldon't forget about Ubuntu Chicago ;)11:21
lloydinhothough, advocacy and marketing might be the same thing, I don't know.11:21
lloydinhoheh. Yes. I need something on LoCo teams as well. 11:22
lloydinho;-)11:22
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lloydinho... and the various community support as well, of course.11:24
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crimsunlloydinho: ok, looking forward to it11:25
lloydinhothanks, crimsun - it sounds like you'll have a lot of good input on this, when it gets closer to completion. So, do not hesitate to add your comments when we get a draft out on the wiki...11:27
LaserJockhehe, I sense a bit of "I'll believe it when I see it" in there crimsun ;-)11:27
crimsunno11:28
lloydinhoheh, well given the current state of the "Contribute" docs, I wouldn't blame you.. :-)11:28
LaserJockwell, I wonder how we can pull it off11:29
crimsunI'm trying to envision as many nodes as possible that can be collapsed11:29
LaserJockyeah11:29
LaserJockI think it's a worth-while effort though11:29
LaserJockthat can evolve as we go11:29
crimsunit's definitely worthwhile, and it will have to evolve since Ubuntu evolves11:30
lloydinhoYes, I've been thinking about that. At moment, the most common distinction of ways to contribute seems to be between "technical" and "non-technical" which is slightly mis-leading.11:30
LaserJockyeah, I'd rather focus on what people are naturally interested in11:31
LaserJockbut it's hard because you ask somebody, "What areas do you interested in?" and you get "I don't know, I just wanna help"11:31
lloydinhoexactly.11:31
LaserJockbut I  think that's perhaps more of a lack-of-information problem than anything11:32
lloydinhoPeople don't really build a set idea of what they want to do before they say they want to contribute.11:32
lloydinhoThe important thing would be to have a list of projects for every team that people can look at and go "Hey, I can help with that!"11:33
LaserJockyeah11:33
lloydinhoYou'd need to know the community a lot better to be able to start up a whole new project on your own.11:34
lloydinhoBecause you might end up spending a lot of effort on something that nobody else agrees with.11:34
=== lloydinho hints at current discussion about Ubuntu branding on the marketing mailing-list...
Burgworkindeed11:36
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lloydinhoanyway, it's time for bed. See ya next week.11:40
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skoraIs there a ubuntu irc channel for PPC ? 11:41
pygiskora, not really, just use #ubuntu I would say11:41
Burgworkskora, not really. If you need help, try #ubuntu11:41
skorak11:41
pygiBurgwork, !!!11:41
pygi:)11:41
Burgworkpygi, fools seldom differ ;)11:42
pygiBurgwork, hehe :)11:45
nixternalthe wiki picks the best times to not work doesn't it11:55
nixternalarg, and help.ubuntu.com11:56
Burgworkmost of the time it works11:56
Burgworkhttp://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/27/london.blackout/index.html11:56
Burgworkthat might explain it11:56
nixternalya, but an hour b4 i have to give a presentation ;)11:56

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