[12:12] it's a nice start to better integration down the road === neoxan [n=neoxan@unaffiliated/neoxan] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Verlassend"] === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bimberi [n=bimberi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.bimberi] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:52] Burgwork, is random punning in Planet Ubuntu posts allowed, or am I going to have to hit you next time I see you? [12:54] well, mdke_ did offer it up === mpt_ [n=mpt@203.118.156.188] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock goes to look [12:59] cover your eyes [01:02] Burgwork: hahahahahaha [01:02] I think that's the funniest thing I've seen today [01:05] I try === draik [n=draik@cpe-72-132-18-144.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === draik [n=draik@cpe-72-132-18-144.socal.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Konversation] === mpt__ [n=mpt@203.118.156.188] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:34] I see that crackish "UnifiedUbuntuBranding" page is still being worked on... still don't see the point... [01:46] ya I had an epiphony once, but Konqi destroyed it! [02:31] Madpilot, wow. Just, wow. [02:31] mpt, what, the branding thing? [02:31] or Burgwork's awful puns? [02:32] The branding thing [02:32] OS/g and OS/k... OS/WTF? [02:32] He seems to be under the delusion that "Gnome" is a non-ridiculous brand name [02:33] nevermind that Canonical would have a polite letter from Apple's lawyers... [02:33] What, for OS/whatever? [02:33] Why? [02:33] You mean IBM's? [02:33] probably both :) [02:34] After Apple released Mac OS 8.6, they released Mac OS 9, and got a letter from some company's lawyers about some other OS called "OS 9" [02:35] Anyway, the underlying logical flaw in that whole page is the clause "Ubuntu lacks a published marketing plan". [02:36] Which I guess is an understandable mistake [02:36] so I shouldn't be too harsh :-) [03:04] mpt: i don't understand, are you saying there _is_ a "published marketing plan"? === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@203.118.156.188] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:28] bimberi, no, it's a logical flaw, not a factual one. Volunteer marketing (though it is often more effective than professional marketing) usually doesn't require a plan, and the kind of marketing that companies do usually involves a plan that isn't published. [03:35] mpt: ok, undersood. So any thoughts on whether ubuntu's volunteer marketing requires a plan? [03:35] *understood [03:45] bimberi, not really, my brain is quite full enough at the moment without thinking about marketing :-) [03:45] mpt: chicken! ;-) [03:45] (Though I will volunteer the suggestion that the marketing team should spend less time debating a design for SpreadUbuntu, and more time on actual marketing) [03:46] heh [03:48] uh oh [03:49] Can someone on Dapper, and someone on Edgy, please try opening Yelp and choosing "Help" > "Get Help Online...", and telling me whether you get a 404? [03:54] mpt: (Dapper) no 404, opens https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+sources/yelp/+gethelp [03:54] weird [03:54] I'm on Dapper and I get https://launchpad.net/distros///+sources/yelp/+gethelp [04:02] reported bug 54212 [04:02] Malone bug 54212 in launchpad-integration ""Get Help Online" in Yelp goes to non-existent page" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/54212 === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:40] mpt: looks fixed already [04:40] oh wait [04:40] hhe [04:40] crap ignore me === LaserJock ignores jsgotangco === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:52] odd... X just froze on me, or somethign did, anyway [04:56] Madpilot: not here either === Gareth^ [n=Gareth@S0106000625d8524a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt_ [n=mpt@203.118.156.188] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@203.118.156.188] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bimberi_ [n=bimberi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.bimberi] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt_ [n=mpt@203.118.156.188] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt__ [n=mpt@203.118.156.188] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [i=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === trappist [i=trappist@tra.ppi.st] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [i=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c58-107-168-5.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:52] morning [08:53] hi mdke_ === RichJ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:07] manicka: hi. Yes, he got back to me and we discussed a few things [09:07] but as for forming a team, we agreed to wait until I'd put some thoughts down [09:08] ah ok. Still lots more to work out [09:08] I'd like the doc-team to head up that team but that may be a sticking point [09:09] I don't think it is a sticking point. I'd like the team to be a subteam of the UDSF team and of the wiki team [09:09] so some people have already been interested in it? [09:10] from what KB tells me, yes [09:10] ah good, you had a discussion with him? [09:10] he thinks Andrew Zajac and Travis Newman will be interested from the forums [09:11] we had a lengthy chat yes [09:11] our current falling out makes communication difficult though [09:11] ah [09:12] he also mentioned some other forum members as being interested [09:12] the only sticking point for me would be working as a subset of udsf... wiki team, no problems [09:13] but I'll just have to work with that I guess [09:13] if it comes to bear [09:13] the whole point would be as a bridge between the two initiatives [09:13] yes, i know [09:14] but as i have no interest in the udsf at this point it will be a challenging role for me [09:14] but workable [09:14] \0/ GO MANICKA \0/ [09:14] I'm sure it will be fine === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:16] as long as i can see a long term goal of integration with the wiki I can work with it [09:16] we talking about combining the UDSF's wiki & the official one? [09:16] Madpilot: no. === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:16] no [09:17] the idea is simply to set up a team which can integrate some material from the forum/UDSF onto the help wiki [09:17] ah, OK [09:18] I'm more interested in what happens after that task is completed, but that can wait for another day [09:18] it's not really a task that gets completed, I wouldn't have thought. material is always being added to the forum, and the help wiki always needs improvement :) [09:19] yes, agreed [09:19] I'd like to move forward with some ideas about improving the help wiki too. [09:20] i guess i meant after the bulk of the porting is done of existing material. the teams focus would then be on keeping the movement of info from the forums to the wiki [09:20] and improving the wiki :) [09:20] I really like the work that has been done in the last 6 months [09:20] right. [09:21] if you have any ideas about how the wiki looks right now and how to improve it, mail them to the list === mdke needs to go and work and such now [09:21] will do [09:21] ok === synchronboy [i=synchron@silenceisdefeat.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc === synchronboy is now known as matthewrevell === RichJ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === RichJ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lloydinho [n=andreas@192.38.119.63] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c58-107-168-5.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan_ [n=bhuvan@vpn3.maa.collab.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan_ is now known as bhuvan === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Ubugtu [n=bugbot@ubuntu/bot/ubugtu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === glatzor [n=sebi@ppp-82-135-12-42.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mhz [n=mhz@moinmoin/fan/mhz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:52] hy all [04:52] I had to stop by beacuse I am kind of clueless about this: [04:53] Why Edubuntu Handbook is not using an official repo? [04:54] I know Susan mentioned during last EHB meeting that everytime there was a meeting, domeone from DocTeam would give diff version opinions "Yes, you should use official repo" / "No, you should not use official repo" [04:54] The reason I am asking here instead of emailng Susan is that next EHB meeting starts in 5 minutes [04:55] so I doubt she'll have time to answer me === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac] has joined #ubuntu-doc === pygi [n=pygi@89-172-238-24.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:25] mdke_, poke [05:25] mhz: we're told that the idea is for the handbook to use the docteam repo [05:25] pygi: pink [05:25] we WILL USE docteam repo :P [05:26] I hoped I made it clear in 10000001 time (the number of time I was explaining that :P) [05:26] mhz: ^^ [05:26] mdke_, why not being in meeting? :P [05:27] pygi: I'm at work [05:27] okis [05:27] oh,oki, sorry then :) === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:48] mdke_, you know how sabdfl raised the idea of a doc team sprint last cycle? shall we do that this cycle, for the book integration? [07:01] Burgwork: might be a nice idea. Not specifically for book integration I think, but there must be plenty of things. Wiki integration, help system organisation, etc [07:01] gtg home now [07:02] mdke_, absolutely, but the book is a big item [07:03] have we decided what we want to do with the book? [07:03] just merge stuff together? [07:03] do we need more than the excerpts? [07:04] I would just merge === robitaille [i=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:09] Burgwork: I wonder actually how much merging is going to be appropriate. After all, we know that it's written with a totally different style, and much of the material is there already. We should definitely take a look though [08:12] Does Andreas Lloyd hang out here? [08:12] mvirkkil: yeah he does sometimes. [08:12] mdke_: What's his nick? [08:12] lloydino or something similar, best to check launchpad [08:12] ah === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:12] lloydinho [08:13] mvirkkil: how's it going? got some book2moin going at all? [08:14] mdke_, yep, but there are a lot of holes we could patch with it [08:14] mdke_: I've fixed the bug you found, but I haven't made any real progress for a while. I'm going to be doing something of a "sprint" next week starting somewhere around tuesday or wednesday. [08:14] did the wiki get a big update or something? [08:15] using the kubuntu theme it looks like half the pages didn't load [08:15] mdke_: And continuing until sunday. [08:15] mvirkkil: yay! [08:15] jjesse: not that I heard about [08:15] mvirkkil: if you want someone to test anything something in the middle of your sprint, lemme know :) [08:16] mvirkkil: especially if you have some book action [08:16] mdke_: As it turns out I've been one of the programmer for organizing http://www.assembly.org/2006/ [08:16] mdke_: The xref stuff is _extremely_ complicated to get right. [08:16] yeah [08:17] i can imagine [08:17] mdke_: I think I have an idea for solving it. I'm hoping that the project would be feature complete by sunday next week (1.5 weeks from now). [08:17] mdke_: So that I could simply be fixing bugs and adding documentation. [08:18] mdke_: and unit tests. [08:18] mvirkkil: good luck, and if I can help, let me know [08:20] mdke_: Thanks :) I'll probably be actively pestering people to try stuff out next week :) [08:21] mdke_: I have a week off from my real job, so I'll hopefully have more energy to concentrate on this. === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-068-017-106-084.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === _maydayjay_ [n=maydayja@gimel.nas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:38] lloydinho, mvirkkil was looking for you === lloydinho_ [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:57] wow the wiki is running sloooooooooowwwwwww for me === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [10:00] yeah, I've given up on it completely for tonight... [10:01] hey LaserJock, you here? [10:01] yeah [10:02] I've been gathering the various "Contribute" stuff off the wiki, and hope to a draft of the Contribute article tomorrow.. [10:02] Is there anything special I should take into consideration about this? [10:03] *to do a draft* [10:04] I'm guessing not [10:04] okay. Well, my plan was this: [10:04] I do a rough first draft. [10:04] You have a look at it and add/change some stuff. [10:05] Then we go over it together in Gobby and iron out the creases. [10:05] sure [10:05] Goody! [10:05] I'm thinking we want to keep it simple with an overview of what contributing means and areas that people can contribute too [10:06] yeah, are you familiar with the HelpingUbuntu wiki page? [10:07] little bit, let me pull it up [10:07] lloydinho, are you looking at merging the /community/contribute page with the HelpingUbuntu page? === lloydinho_ [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:08] lloydinho_, are you looking at merging the /community/contribute page with the HelpingUbuntu page? [10:08] (figured you might have missed it) [10:09] we are looking at creating a "Contributing to Ubuntu" article to go in yelp [10:09] and khelpcenter if we can get it to work === lloydinho__ [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:09] ah [10:09] as a top level doc that would have the Packaging Guide in it [10:09] that is so strange. [10:10] can you look at the website as well? [10:10] I don't know why Xchat keeps on crashing on me.. [10:10] it only make sense that all three are the same [10:10] yeah, I've seen the website and the wiki [10:10] ultimately, I want the wiki page to die [10:11] redirect to the community/participate page [10:11] yeah, there really isn't a reason to have it on the wiki [10:11] LaserJock: I'm sorry I zoned out for a bit there - did I miss anything? [10:11] just Burgwork ;-) [10:11] oh, hi Burgwork! :-) [10:12] Burgwork ultimately, I want the wiki page to die [10:12] Burgwork redirect to the community/participate page [10:12] so we want all the contribute stuff centralized, yes? [10:12] sounds good [10:13] yes [10:13] yes, we seem to send mixed messages too often [10:13] people fine more than one source for the same information, and there aren't always the same [10:13] in fact, they are usually don't have the same content [10:14] yep [10:14] the webpage is slowly getting the love it needs [10:14] I've been reading all the different teams' Contribute/Get Involved sections, and they all have different ways of approaching the new contributors... [10:14] yeah [10:14] it would be nice if each team had a page (that was consistent) [10:14] For instance, the Artwork team has an open Launchpad team, and asks people to register there and for the mailing list as the first thing. [10:14] where they could put info [10:15] there should be a secondary landing page for each team [10:15] that page should be on the wiki [10:15] yeah [10:15] you sort of need to have one page that gives the reader enough info to decide if they want to pursue further [10:16] that is actually the harder part of the job [10:16] as you need to interface with each team and get them to create taht page [10:16] that is what HelpingUbuntu is supposed to be about [10:16] Yes. Can we do a standard template for team pages that will make it easy for visitors to read and compare teams? [10:16] sure [10:16] Burgwork: or should we get info from teams and make the pages ourselves? [10:16] (and will the teams be willing to use it?) [10:17] either [10:17] I don't think teams would mind, as long as we give lots of warning and get good feedback [10:18] well, I suppose if we make a template, we will need to fit the various team data into that, but it might be better to let the teams do that themselves.. [10:18] It might be an opportunity for them to reflect on how they welcome new contributors. [10:19] And I'm still curious about how Launchpad will figure in all of this, since there are also LP team pages to consider.. [10:19] let create the template, move one team over (say, the doc team) and invite people to give comments [10:19] the LP pages should simply have a link to the wiki [10:21] Right, and a one-paragraph presentation of the team (preferably the same paragraph that is the first part of the wiki page) === pygi says hello [10:21] I think that would be a good solution. [10:21] hey pygi [10:21] Hi pygi [10:21] intro, contact, current projects [10:21] hey both :) [10:22] how are you Burgwork ? [10:22] yeah, lloydinho have you looked at the MOTU [10:22] not bad, busy [10:22] we have been doing a lot lately with working with contibutors === lloydinho_ [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:23] gah! [10:25] Burgwork: So, once the wiki stops being so dreadfully slow, we can try making that template. [10:26] sounds good [10:26] Should there be a section on what one should do to qualify as a member of the team? In general or in Launchpad? [10:27] at some point there needs to be something [10:27] but usually you don't need to be a member of the team to contribute [10:27] so they shouldn't have to worry too much about that initially [10:28] No, I guess not. [10:28] but yeah, figuring out what it takes is probably pretty important at some point [10:29] But when I first started out, I looked at the various teams in launchpad, and didn't know whether I had to be a member or not to contribute - so it'll probably need to be addressed somewhere [10:29] yes, that should be in the very beginning [10:29] that would mean in the team wiki page. [10:29] I don't know of any teams where you have to be a member to contribute [10:30] I think it should be discussed before, I think this is a general Ubuntu thing [10:30] And since teams have different policies on this (again with the art team as an example) we can't say that there is just one way to do this [10:30] well, member != contributor [10:30] that's a distinction we need to make clear, I think [10:31] I know. And that is important. Especially how we phrase this to the new budding contributors [10:31] yeah [10:32] because if you looked at MOTU or the doc team you would get kinda depressed because there aren't that many [10:32] so it must be *really* hard to get on the teams in order to contribute [10:32] Because LP seems to formalize something that usually is a kind of vague social tie in a very "are you in my Friends network or not" kind of way. [10:32] I've heard that kind of thing before [10:33] The MOTU team is special, since those members are approved by the technical board. [10:33] yes [10:34] Really, the MOTU LP page should be saying that loud and clear instead of merely referring to the MOTU recruitment page. [10:34] yes [10:34] https://launchpad.net/people/motu [10:34] well, the thing is for us, is that nobody should be coming to MOTU through LP [10:34] ok, let's clear up some stuff. [10:35] and perhaps that is perhaps a bad assumption [10:35] ack, that's another thing [10:35] #1. https://launchpad.net/people/motu is not the MOTU group. It needs to state that explicitly. It was a bug triaging group that is now obsolete. [10:35] yeah [10:35] we should ask for that to be removed [10:36] huh? I search for MOTU in launchpad and that is what I get? [10:36] yep [10:36] the real MOTU team is ubuntu-dev [10:36] on LP [10:36] ah, of course. [10:36] as opposed to ubuntu-core-dev for the Main guys [10:36] #2. State unequivocally that people need not be part of any LP team to contribute. Instead, introduce the various LP teams as "bug triaging" groups. In other words, ubuntu-doc will address bugs for the documentation. [10:36] Well, that's another misunderstanding waiting to happen (again) [10:37] crimsun: I don't think most teams view it as "bug triaging" [10:37] perhaps that is something that should change [10:37] LaserJock: no, but we /should/ [10:37] it's the easiest way to address LP teams, really [10:38] it is an artifact of LP I think [10:38] since it isn't just Malone [10:38] translation teams, for instance, are basically concerned with Rosetta [10:38] we have upstream product teams [10:38] we have all kinds of teams [10:38] it's a zoo [10:38] for instance, I'm not a ubuntu-doc member, but I've contributed to documentation [bugs] [10:39] I'm a ubuntu-dev member, and I contribute to universe & multiverse [bugs] [10:39] hehe [10:39] I'm a ubuntu-core-dev member, and I contribute to main, universe & multiverse [bugs] [10:39] you do contribute to universe bugs for sure ;-) [10:39] well, but isn't that very Malone-centric [10:40] I'm not a kernel-team member, but I contribute to linux-source [bugs] [10:40] But you do packaging as well, I suppose - also through your ubuntu-dev membership, right? [10:40] lloydinho_: tasks, I think, are only a very small portion of how to view LP teams [10:40] lloydinho_: what he is saying, I think, is that we can think of everything in terms of bugs (or tasks) [10:40] the point here is that LP teams signify a certain ownership of bug triaging participation [10:41] I just don't know that I can agree with that though [10:41] because Malone is only a part of LP [10:41] and bugs live in Malone [10:41] you can have many teams that never touch Malone [10:41] sure, then substitute the appropriate action [10:42] Malone teams on LP -> bug triaging [10:42] Rosetta teams -> trans [10:42] etc. [10:42] I think of most of the teams as being "social collections" with a few important ones actually being "access teams" === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:43] I prefer to omit the idea of 'access/privilege' completely when introducing an LP novice [10:43] there are a lot of artwork and documentation teams that don't use LP for anything but organizing the team [10:43] (Okay, I'll be trying GAIM instead now.. this is really strange..) [10:43] Marketing does specs for the different projects that they've got going. [10:43] I think of stuff as in "wanna help? here are people [on such and such team] that can assist." [10:44] I prefer not to introduce the novice to LP [10:44] I think that is the job of the wiki, mailing lists, and IRC [10:44] LP doesn't give enough information [10:44] well, we need to address Launchpad somewhere. [10:44] LP is not sufficient, but it's necessary. [10:45] "it's this really huge complex beast that you don't need to worry much about, but one day you will learn its secrets..." [10:45] I think that the teams should do that, in their specific way. I don't think general contributing docs need to address LP other than to say it exists and what it is used for [10:45] "... and then you too will be a master." [10:45] then what /is/ LP used for? [10:46] stuff [10:46] ;-) [10:46] I couldn't even attempt to summarise it [10:46] I would do it probably in terms of the different sections [10:46] like "Rosseta is used for translating documents and programs into various languages" [10:47] Trying to explain all of Launchpad to any new F/OSS contributor is almost impossible, I think. [10:47] "...where each Rosetta team is..." [10:47] the problem is that the teams can really mean various things [10:47] the teams aren't really tied to any specific section of LP [10:47] you can explain each of the elements (maybe. at least Rosetta, Blueprint and Malone), but not all of them together. [10:48] And definitely not how the different teams use them. [10:48] there isn't anything that says "this is a Malone team" other than if you but -bugs in the name or something [10:48] s/but/put/ [10:49] that's why it's critical to explain what each component's teams do. It doesn't have to be done up front, but it does have to be done. [10:49] you can literally make any team for *any* purpose [10:49] but how do you explain something that doesn't exist? [10:49] I guess we can kinda do it ourselves [10:49] yes. And as long as there is no way to differentiate between the teams, it will be even more difficult. [10:50] I think you mean to ask "How do you enumerate something that's countably infinite?" [10:50] hah [10:51] It would certainly help if a new user didn't have to deal with *all of launchpad* when they begin. [10:51] they really don't. They just register if they want. === skora [n=skora@70-39-193-120.clvdoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:51] they'll still start out at the front page of launchpad, [10:52] There are plenty of contributors who refuse to register on LP, actually. === skora is now known as skorasaurus [10:52] I think it might be a bit misleading to give LP teams structure that doesn't really exist. I think it is better the get the person plugged into the team itself, not it's LP manifestation [10:52] then the team can explain what LP is used for in their team [10:53] LaserJock: but then you have to explain what a team is, which brings you back to square one. [10:53] let the teams explain it [10:53] so you're going to say "Join an LP team, and ask team X what its purpose is"? [10:53] I just don't see how we can make an all-inclusive statement about what LP teams are [10:54] well, that will return us to the question of the different teams offering different and potentially misleading information about teams in general are. [10:54] no, I say ditch "Join an LP team". It isn't needed [10:54] I think explaining what the various LP components are used for is much more helpful [10:54] well, /if/ you choose to cover 'LP teams' at all, you could of course just say that a team is a collection of e-mail addresses. [10:55] a collection of launchpad users? [10:56] something like that, we could go into more I suppose, but since really LP team really don't have anything to do with getting a person to contribute [10:56] I don't think we need to worry a ton about it [10:56] eventually it will need to be addressed [10:56] what else is being considered for the 'portal'? [10:56] yes, but I think that might be better left to the teams themselves [10:57] Hm. Yes. people will ask about it. But I suppose we can let that be addressed by the teams.. [10:57] the first question I have as a new user is "why have a team at all?" [10:58] anyhow, that's enough about LP [10:59] what other vectors are there for new Ubuntu contributors? [11:00] (It's strange because most of the social structures fell in place before LP opened, and now a parallel structure is appearing in LP. Messy..!) [11:01] vectors? As in where will people look and what will they need to know in order to contribute? [11:05] sure [11:05] the question is perhaps better phrased as "How can I contribute?" [11:05] whats with the speed of the wiki? [11:06] well, that was basically the name of the doc that LaserJock and I are going to write.. [11:08] lloydinho: right, but how else can I contribute? === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@dialup-4.159.11.250.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:09] whats a good professional looking font for a business card? [11:09] meaning "suppose I'm a new user, and I'd like to know where to jump in" [11:10] nixternal, that actually depends on the quantity of text and the design on the card, generally a serif is a nice professional touch [11:10] the Ubuntu Business Card..i have an event tonight, I would like to give a couple out with CDs so people can contact me for support and direction [11:11] crimsun, then I would have to ask you a two part question, what can you do, and what would you like to do? [11:11] lloydinho: do you feel that's answerable by the new docs you're constructing? [11:12] nixternal, use something from the "examples" with 6.06 [11:12] hmm, let me look in there [11:13] crimsun: That was the plan, yes. [11:14] We want a one-stop reference that we can add to the System docs that ship with Ubuntu. [11:15] That will give enough stable information to get people involved with what they feel capable of contributing to. [11:17] ok, I'm obviously not making myself clear. I'm asking what have you covered, and where are you looking now? [11:18] Um. We have only just started. I'll be writing the first draft tomorrow. [11:19] What I have done so far is taking all of the various scraps of "Get Involved" and "Helping Out" pages on the Website and the wiki, and I want to use that as a base to make a solid document. [11:19] Ok, and that covers which major vectors into Ubuntu? [11:20] (art? translation? packaging? bug triaging? etc.) [11:21] advocacy, Doc team, wiki team, artwork, marketing, general testing, laptop testing, server testing, the bugsquad, desktop team, serverteam, the MOTUs... [11:21] don't forget about Ubuntu Chicago ;) [11:21] though, advocacy and marketing might be the same thing, I don't know. [11:22] heh. Yes. I need something on LoCo teams as well. [11:22] ;-) === skora [n=skora@70-39-193-120.clvdoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:24] ... and the various community support as well, of course. === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:25] lloydinho: ok, looking forward to it [11:27] thanks, crimsun - it sounds like you'll have a lot of good input on this, when it gets closer to completion. So, do not hesitate to add your comments when we get a draft out on the wiki... [11:27] hehe, I sense a bit of "I'll believe it when I see it" in there crimsun ;-) [11:28] no [11:28] heh, well given the current state of the "Contribute" docs, I wouldn't blame you.. :-) [11:29] well, I wonder how we can pull it off [11:29] I'm trying to envision as many nodes as possible that can be collapsed [11:29] yeah [11:29] I think it's a worth-while effort though [11:29] that can evolve as we go [11:30] it's definitely worthwhile, and it will have to evolve since Ubuntu evolves [11:30] Yes, I've been thinking about that. At moment, the most common distinction of ways to contribute seems to be between "technical" and "non-technical" which is slightly mis-leading. [11:31] yeah, I'd rather focus on what people are naturally interested in [11:31] but it's hard because you ask somebody, "What areas do you interested in?" and you get "I don't know, I just wanna help" [11:31] exactly. [11:32] but I think that's perhaps more of a lack-of-information problem than anything [11:32] People don't really build a set idea of what they want to do before they say they want to contribute. [11:33] The important thing would be to have a list of projects for every team that people can look at and go "Hey, I can help with that!" [11:33] yeah [11:34] You'd need to know the community a lot better to be able to start up a whole new project on your own. [11:34] Because you might end up spending a lot of effort on something that nobody else agrees with. === lloydinho hints at current discussion about Ubuntu branding on the marketing mailing-list... [11:36] indeed === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-238-170.nr.ip.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:40] anyway, it's time for bed. See ya next week. === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [11:41] Is there a ubuntu irc channel for PPC ? [11:41] skora, not really, just use #ubuntu I would say [11:41] skora, not really. If you need help, try #ubuntu [11:41] k [11:41] Burgwork, !!! [11:41] :) [11:42] pygi, fools seldom differ ;) [11:45] Burgwork, hehe :) [11:55] the wiki picks the best times to not work doesn't it [11:56] arg, and help.ubuntu.com [11:56] most of the time it works [11:56] http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/27/london.blackout/index.html [11:56] that might explain it [11:56] ya, but an hour b4 i have to give a presentation ;)