/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/07/27/#ubuntu-marketing.txt

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adamant1988hello all03:08
ormiretmorning03:13
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Madpilotah, the unified branding thing has surfaced on the mailing list...04:00
Burgundaviawhich one?04:03
Madpilotthat wiki page04:04
Madpilothttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnifiedUbuntuBranding04:04
Burgundaviabut which mailing list04:05
Madpilotthe marketing team ML04:05
=== Burgundavia gets out the LART
bimberibe gentle04:15
BurgundaviaI think I was04:15
bimberigrr - my email redirection is slow (yet again)  *heads to the archives*04:17
BurgundaviaI basically told him we would gain nothing and lose lots04:17
nixternalARG!!!04:22
nixternalit wouldn't be04:23
nixternalUbuntu > Linux > Gnome04:23
nixternalLinux then Ubuntu then Gnome, even if it was acceptable04:23
nixternaland even then it doesn't work04:23
Burgundaviaregardless of minor things like that, it still won't work on the grand scale04:24
nixternalyou know, he really does mean well, but I think there needs to be some FOSS reviewing on his side04:24
nixternalhe is a real marketer as well I believe, and is pretty intelligent.04:25
Burgundaviaah04:25
Burgundaviathat is why it is so well laid out04:25
=== bimberi decides to actually read the whole thing
nixternalya Burgundavia, he knows what he is doing with the legalities i guess you could say04:25
bimberii stopped at the 'Hector Quintero Story' before04:26
BurgundaviaI can produce well polished turds too04:26
MadpilotBurgundavia, you're in sales, it's how you make your living :)04:26
Burgundaviaheh04:26
nixternalhahaha04:27
nixternali haven't figured out just how to polish them yet04:27
nixternalbut when i do!!!04:27
bimberiyes, he has missed the Canonical aspect04:32
bimberihm, neither ubuntu.com or the CD cover mention Canonical (except in the fine print)04:35
Madpilotthat's the only place it needs to be mentioned04:36
bimberibut "Canonical --> Ubuntu" ????04:37
Burgundaviayes, for the people who matter04:37
Burgundaviacompanies04:37
Burgundaviathat is the only reason I could even see why we would rebrand04:37
nixternalLinux Kernel + Community + Gnome -> Ubuntu04:37
nixternalUbuntu + Community + KDE -> Kubuntu04:38
nixternaland so on04:38
nixternalactually04:38
bimberiyet somehow it _is_ the press's perception as you said Burgundavia04:38
nixternalDebian + Community + Ubuntu Philosophy + Gnome = Ubuntu ;)04:39
bimberi+ CoC !!!04:39
nixternalUbuntuhaha04:39
nixternali was just going there04:39
nixternalUbuntu + Kubuntu + Edubuntu + Xubuntu + CoC + Community + Philosopgy = rm -rf /world04:40
bimberiit's the press's perception because Mark Shuttleworth is the story04:40
bimberiso it's04:40
bimberiMark Shuttleworth -> Ubuntu04:41
Burgundaviaright, Mark, who has Kubuntu on the desktop he never uses04:41
Burgundaviafunny how the last part of the story always gets forgotten04:41
nixternalhmm04:42
bimberii'm yet to experience a story i know about being correctly reported in the media04:43
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Madpilotsomeone pinged me just before I dropped off - was that here?04:54
bimberinope04:54
Burgundavianope04:56
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adamant1988hello all05:03
gaz00lol05:24
gaz00seems like every time that i open this window, you're saying "hi" adamant198805:24
adamant1988well, you know how it is05:24
adamant1988someone has to talk in this channel05:24
gaz00how, you and i saying "hi" all day long?05:25
gaz00Done.  Filler it is!05:25
gaz00how's that shop thing coming along?05:25
adamant1988It's slowly but surely coming along05:27
adamant1988I'm trying to determine if I want to go for distro agnostic, or if I want to do ubuntu only.05:27
gaz00wouldn't ubuntu only be easier?05:28
adamant1988most likely, but the thought crosses my mind... I might apply for a business license for it...05:29
gaz00hrm..   sounds like a lot still has to be planned out05:30
adamant1988There is a lot to be planned out.05:32
adamant1988I'm constructing a business plan... I'm hoping that I can turn this center/shop into a viable business.05:32
adamant1988Take a cue from wal-mart... if you want to make people see something, make it visible... PHYSICALLY visible.05:32
gaz00so what exactly would you be selling?05:33
adamant1988by offering a service that other computer users need, using either Windows or Linux, I can get their attention.05:33
adamant1988So probably hardware, custom built computers tailor made to the users needs.05:33
gaz00ahh...    i'd be interested to see the deal that you end up working out with the shopowners05:33
adamant1988currently I have 60 square feet05:34
gaz00especially if you're after prime space05:34
gaz00not bad at all05:34
adamant1988But it's show room space, and it's free.05:34
adamant1988if the center does well, I will be allowed to rent out a 75x50' show room that's attached to the building for a couple hundred a month.05:35
adamant1988but, I won't be allowed to rent out the room until I get a business license.05:36
gaz00makes sense...05:36
adamant1988yeah...05:36
adamant1988my goal is to spread linux the way it needs to be spread..05:36
adamant1988My issue is, do I back just Ubuntu? or do I back multiple distros?05:37
gaz00i'm thinking aobut an article that i read about how mark is still trying to recoup his investment and wondering how he was planning on doing it05:37
gaz00well -  the easiest answer is to back what you know to start.   It does you no good if someone walks in and has a question, but you can't answer it.05:38
adamant1988there are 3 distros that I know fairly well.05:38
adamant1988Ubuntu, SLED 10, and Linspire 5.05:38
gaz00then start with those05:38
adamant1988I don't think I'll branch past those, to be honest...05:39
adamant1988I might offer a service where I'll download and install any distro the user wants, but I will only officially support a combo of those three.05:39
gaz00that's still a big bite...3 separate distros can be very different (note:  i'm not familiar with SLED nor linspire)05:39
adamant1988Linspire..., If it weren't for being completely out-dated Linspire could be very big for the linux desktop05:40
gaz00the way that ubuntu's been going lately, imho, it still makes sense to cover the biggest distro first and focus on that.05:40
adamant1988SLED 10 is the best for businesses, I don't doubt.05:41
adamant1988But Ubuntu... ubuntu comes "crippled" out of the box as a full OS.05:41
adamant1988That's my issue with Ubuntu... Ubuntu does everything BUT multimedia support, great.05:43
gaz00maybe i'm just trying to be too simplistic, but wouldn't what you just said make the most sense?   ditch linspire - worry about what it is and not what it CAN be...   promote SLED for business and Ubuntu for other situations05:43
adamant1988Although I believe Ubuntu would benefit from CNR type technology (which is now open source) I don't think it's necessary because Ubuntu has the next easiest app install.05:43
gaz00or make one big install script that loads MM support all at once05:44
adamant1988Well, I've got time, and the next Linspire is supposedly releasing 4th quarter this year.05:44
adamant1988I think I'm going to have to see what happens in the linux landscape this year.05:45
adamant1988I expect Ubuntu will always be much more technologically up to date than Linspire can or will be. just because of the difference in release cycles.05:46
gaz00heh.   when do you get the floorspace?05:47
adamant1988the floor space is open all year, I can move in whenever I want.05:48
gaz00i would imagine that ubuntu has a bigger dev following as well, which will add even more to ubuntu05:48
gaz00oh05:48
gaz00that's a pretty sweet deal that you have set up there05:48
Burgundaviaadamant1988: exactly what does CNR offer over GAI05:48
adamant1988Yeah, but I need for this center to make some serious ground.05:48
adamant1988Burgundavia, The main thing that it does is it allows you to see if that package is worth downloading.05:49
Burgundaviavia what method?05:49
adamant1988it lets you read user reviews etc.05:49
adamant1988It shows you screen shots, gives you data on getting support for that package, etc.05:49
adamant1988ALSO the AISLES feature05:49
adamant1988Aisles allow you to download a group of program all at once, with one click, and install them...05:50
adamant1988so if you get a new computer and you want to set it up like your old one was... it only takes one click.05:50
gaz00that includes setup, or just a list of programs?05:50
adamant1988setup and everything it downloads and installs them all.05:51
gaz00that is quite interesting...   never heard about that before05:51
adamant1988not to mention another thing05:51
adamant1988Click-N-Buy05:51
adamant1988You can buy commercial applications through CNR as well... just one click.05:52
adamant1988Crossover, Cedega, Win4Lin, several CAD programs, etc.05:52
adamant1988and you can sort the information by user rating, etc.05:52
adamant1988you can view the basic CNR repo on the linspire site... it looks out of date, but actually if you bother paying the $4 something a month it has more programs and they're more up to date.05:54
gaz00hrm....  I'm not quite sure that I understand05:55
adamant1988CNR is subscription based05:55
gaz00$4.xx / month lets you browse for more up-to-date items which you can buy?   what does the $4 get you?05:55
adamant1988custom aisles, and a crap load of extra's updates etc..05:56
adamant1988the basic account can only have one custom aisle, but the gold account can have as many as it wants.05:56
adamant1988gold accounts get MASSIVE discounts on commecial software05:56
adamant1988I think you get like 30 dollars off of Crossover if you're using a Gold Account, etc.05:56
adamant1988oh and then DVD playback only costs like $5 instead of $30.05:57
gaz00it sounds like the costs add up though.05:57
adamant1988They do, but it's all legal and easy as hell, that's the plus.05:57
adamant1988It's certainly not the cheapest desktop linux, but it is hands down the easiest.05:58
adamant1988no need to install mp3 and flash and all that, they're in it right out of the box.05:58
adamant1988the biggest question for people is... would they pay for the convenience?05:59
gaz00heh05:59
adamant1988it has AMAZING hardware detection, wireless... right out of the box, etc.05:59
gaz00i'm sure that many will and do, but it really does detract from one of linuxes biggest selling points in that it's free05:59
adamant1988I agree with you05:59
adamant1988Freespire fills in that gap actually...05:59
adamant1988Freespire is supposedly "the distro about choice"06:00
adamant1988there are two versions... one has mm installed by default, one has everything free in it.06:00
adamant1988so no mm.06:00
adamant1988CNR isn't "forced" like it is in Linspire 5.06:01
adamant1988you can use apt if you want to.06:01
=== bimberi wonders if he's in #linspire-marketing ;-P
gaz00heh... you're going to spend your 60ft of spaces with charts detailing differences :p06:01
gaz00bimberi, lol06:01
Burgundaviahonestly, there is nothing for the average consumer to be able to tell the difference06:01
adamant1988Burgundavia, I would think the average consumer would see a massive difference between distros... the difference is that if I go the Ubuntu route, I am almost guaranteed that they will be back for help with getting multimedia, wireless, or video cards to work.06:02
Burgundaviaafter they have purchased it maybe06:03
adamant1988which may not be a bad thing at all, I could use that guaranteed return as an opportunity to sell more services.06:03
adamant1988believe me I'm really weighing the pros and cons of each, I'll probably support all 3... each for a different scenario...06:05
gaz00yeah, i'm still thinking that with how fast they change, you'll end up spending a lot of your time keeping up with all 306:07
gaz00but you seem ot know them pretty well, so it is up to you.06:07
adamant1988I'm really adamant about Linspire actually being a good distro (in case you haven't noticed)... most people who like FOSS hate it on principle, but now that CNR is open sourced I don't see what grounds that argument has against it that wouldn't be against Mepis as well.   Just needs to be more up to date.06:08
adamant1988Ubuntu is just awesome and the community is amazing06:09
adamant1988that community is Ubuntu's largest selling point.06:09
gaz00lol... yeah, you're not exactly too subtle about it ;)06:09
adamant1988I never claimed to be.06:10
gaz00actually, while you guys are here, I do have a question....06:10
adamant1988I've always been very opinionated, it's a curse.06:10
gaz00and a blessing...   opinions can be good or bad, but it's up to the audience to decide :)06:10
gaz00the question:   what do you guys think that the best way of measuring Ubuntu usage would be?06:11
Madpilotgaz00, traffic to the repos & various mirrors06:11
adamant1988gaz00 look in the forums and you have a pretty decent idea, IMO.06:12
gaz00Madpilot, is that information public?   and it wouldn't include CDs nor copies distributed between people directly06:12
Madpilotno idea if it's public or not, but Canonical might be able to provide some figures from their main repos06:13
adamant1988it goes against the ubuntu way to download ubuntu and start using it and not at least posting on the forums...06:13
Madpilotthere's 120,000+ registered users of ubuntuforums.org, but for sure there's lots more Ubuntu users than that, worldwide06:13
adamant1988is that counting all the other national forums?06:14
Madpilotno, that's only ubuntuforums.org06:14
adamant1988ok, I don't know about the other national forums, but I'm fairly certain the community activity speaks for which people are actually using Ubuntu.06:14
gaz00hrm...  personally, of the ubuntu users that I know, none of them are active in the forums.06:17
adamant1988it's the exact opposite for me =\06:18
gaz00you sound like you're surrounded by technically minded people though06:18
Madpilotgaz00, I know a number of Ubuntu users who either don't use or actually avoid ubuntuforums06:18
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gaz00Madpilot, that's the impression that i had06:18
Madpilotsome people more involved with Ubuntu that I am even deliberately avoid those forums...06:19
=== ormiret isn't a fan on forums
ormiret*of06:22
adamant1988the forums keep me busy and entertained06:23
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nixternalCommercial/Typical/General/Corporate/Merchandise/Product Marketing != FOSS Marketing!!!  To many good ideas, just with a "Microsoft $$$$" frame of mind08:04
gaz00lol08:05
gaz00nixternal, sounds like you need to gripe :p08:05
nixternalnah, just people who think they know marketing and what not, try to create an argument that doesn't even fit or go with the FOSS community or the marketing strategies of FOSS08:06
nixternalfor instance, I am almost complete with my Master's in Business Administration with a Major in Entrepreneurship and a Minor in Marketing08:07
Madpilotick, we're in the presence of an MBA ;) (almost)08:07
nixternalnow, I have worked in the marketing dept b4, however everything i learned, cannot really be utilized in FOSS, Ubuntu, Linux, this community08:07
nixternalYa Madpilot, it seems they get the big bucks now a days08:08
Madpilotheh08:08
Madpilottrue 'nuff08:08
nixternalall my bosses have that stupid plaque on the wall that says MBA08:08
nixternalhell, i guess i needed one ;)08:08
BurgundaviaGWB is the first MBA president...08:08
nixternalwoohoo08:08
nixternali will be the 2nd08:08
nixternal;)08:08
Burgundavialets hope you do better than the 1st08:09
Madpilothe's got a Masters in Badly Administering, GW08:09
nixternalhey now, you are talking about my Commander and Chief08:09
Madpilotnixternal, you military?08:10
nixternalI voted for him twice, so I guess there are some dumber then him08:10
nixternalyes sir08:10
nixternalreserves now08:10
nixternal5 years until retirement08:10
nixternal5.5 years to be exact...December 6th, 2011 i am eligible for 20yr term retirement08:11
nixternaland with my rate and rank, i fall right in between the high enough to go and the low enough to fight category08:12
Burgundaviaoh, lovely, quote Milton Friedman at me. That is *really* going to convince me. NOT!08:27
gaz00sweet...  a FOSS advocate in a capitalistic society.   hrmmm08:28
Burgundaviathis branding thread is another giant useless mess already08:33
Burgundavialots of hand waving without much else08:33
Madpilotall that stuff about "the community won't move without a crisis" - true, but first, prove we have a crisis...08:37
Burgundaviaactually, it is flat out wrong08:38
Burgundaviawe are not a democracy08:38
nixternalhey Burgundavia, i read that book in high school, it is part of the economics course for high school in illinois ;)08:41
BurgundaviaI have read it too, sadly08:41
nixternaliirc, friedman had more accusations of fraud then any other person in those times08:42
nixternallol08:42
nixternalBurgundavia: i would say don't get all worked up over it, as you are probably batteling someone reading about.com, as the answers/replies are few and far between..and seem rather scripted08:43
Burgundaviayep08:43
nixternali wonder if people actually read the community pages, the about pages, and such at ubuntu.com. to me, it sounds like they are sipping the kool-aid and don't even know the flavor08:45
Burgundaviapretty much08:45
nixternalthey are actually trying to support something that goes against the Ubuntu philosophy08:45
nixternalarg, i need ice cream08:46
BurgundaviaI have no problem with changing anything. I just need a good reason08:46
nixternali don't think a good reason will ever come out of it, unless somehow Ubuntu does the unthinkable and comercializes08:46
Burgundavianever happn08:47
nixternalthat is why i love this place ;)08:47
nixternalFREEEEEE!!!08:47
nixternalok, ice cream time ;)08:47
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matthewrevellRichJ: new nick?09:47
RichJno09:48
RichJim on my laptop09:48
RichJthat is messed up hardcore right now because the edgy updates tonight are bad09:49
matthewrevellah :(09:49
RichJya, it kind of hurts, as tomorrow is a busy day for me09:50
RichJgotta get ready for vacation on friday, and then i have an ubuntu chicago even tomorrow night that i gotta get ready for09:51
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matthewrevellmdke_: ping12:28
mdke_matthewrevell: hi12:29
matthewrevellmdke_: Yesterday, Nixternal, I think, mentioned that the docs team has a set of processes that govern the running of the team. I'm keen to help better organise the marketing team.12:30
matthewrevellMaybe I've missed them, but I can't find reference to such processes on the doc team wiki pages12:31
matthewrevellany chance of a pointer?12:31
matthewrevells/govern/support12:31
mdke_matthewrevell: I suppose https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarted12:32
matthewrevellFirst place I looked, but thanks :) I take it that means there isn't anything more formal. That's cool. Thanks.12:34
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matthewrevellHi Chris03:16
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Ckenyonmatthewrevell: hi04:20
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Burgworkhttp://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2006-July/msg00275.html07:34
nixternalya, i also read somewhere that they want to fix ubuntu.com the same way that the BBC did their site, for accessibility purposes mainly, that was the reason behind the BBC change07:37
MenZaUngoals..07:49
MenZaSounds like newspeak to me.07:49
Burgworkno, actually, it is not07:51
Burgworkit is all about being very targetted with what you do07:52
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