[12:06] <Burgwork> pitti, any reason it uses update-manager for telling it about when a file changes?
[12:07] <pitti> Burgwork: just to avoid installing yet another daemon into the user's session
[12:07] <pitti> Burgwork: and u-n was supposed to become a more general 'event-notifier' for a looong time already
[12:07] <Burgwork> ah
[12:07] <Burgwork> I remember the specs on that
[12:07] <pitti> Burgwork: but it's just some inotify -> run apport-gtk glue, nothign more
[12:10] <Burgwork> pitti, would you mind putting an end to the zeroconf discussion on -devel. You are the security guy, after all
[12:11] <tseng> Burgwork: we suggested earlier that someone put it on the agenda for tb
[12:12] <tseng> for a final word
[12:12] <Burgwork> goodf
[12:12] <Burgwork> otherwise it will just go around in circles
[12:12] <mdz> I've been deleting that thread because it didn't seem to raise anything new
[12:12] <mdz> we decided this ages ago
[12:12] <mdz> no network services by default, make it easy to enable if the user wants it, kthxbye
[12:13] <ogra> can we add it to the ML spamfilter ? :)
[12:13] <Burgwork> heh
[12:13] <pitti> Burgwork: whoa, right, I need to find time to actually read the mega-thread; I was pretty scared of it when I saw it, I admit
[12:13] <Burgwork> pitti, you don't need to read it. Just say "not going to happen. kthyxbye"
[12:13] <pitti> but basically what mdz says, I totally agree
[12:13] <ogra> i cant remember the last thread that was this noisy on -devel
[12:13] <pitti> Burgwork: ok, then I read the first mails at least
[12:13] <pitti> and skim the rest
[12:14] <mdz> it spirals into lots of off-topic stuff without changing the subject
[12:14] <pitti> ogra: naked people artwork? or was this sounder? :)
[12:14] <ogra> nope -users :)
[12:14] <mdz> mako: any opinion on this gentium update?
[12:14] <ogra> indeed, thats unbeaten
[12:14] <Burgwork> how to market your new distro: put half naked people in it
[12:15] <tseng> it got peoples attention, if nothing else
[12:15] <ogra> Burgwork, thats so 2004 ...
[12:15] <bluefoxicy> it got naked people on my screen for a while
[12:15] <bluefoxicy> wait........
[12:15] <Burgwork> ogra, damn. Is animal sex 2006?
[12:15] <bluefoxicy> XD
[12:16] <ogra> Burgwork !!
[12:16] <tseng> Burgwork: oh jeez.
[12:16] <ogra> and a brow
[12:16] <bluefoxicy> Burgwork:  I cannot approve that; it would create unfavorable PR with most people.
[12:16] <bluefoxicy> Burgwork:  however I'm not on Canonical's staff so :)
[12:16] <Burgwork> ah, but you forget bluefoxicy, any news is good news
[12:17] <bluefoxicy> Burgwork:  The news on MSN about the guy who died from ... an interesting encounter with a horse.. was not good news.  It involved death!
[12:17] <Burgwork> I can see it now: Mark announces edgy+1 as "fucking ferrets" completely with artwork
[12:17] <Burgwork> anyway, this horribly off topic...
[12:18] <bluefoxicy> Burgwork:  hey, come on, the mile stone releases are already called KNOTS anyway
[12:18] <bluefoxicy> yes, yes it is.
[12:19] <bluefoxicy> Something more on topic than sex with animals:  I agree with mdz, don't turn on random network automagic serverish things by default.  Give me a big red button to click, complete with "this will expose your naked ass to the network, are you sure you want to do this?" warning.
[12:21] <Burgwork> bluefoxicy, that just got uploaded, by the ever busy seb128 
[12:22] <bluefoxicy> anyway I should really restart X, I've managed to race GTK+ again and now my themes are broken.
[12:28] <Burgwork> pitti, congratulations --> http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid14_gci1202417,00.htm
[12:28] <bluefox> DAMNIT.
[12:29] <bluefox> tseng:  remember when i said something about X breaking and you said something about not trolling?
[12:29] <pitti> Burgwork: oh, wow :)
[12:29] <bluefox> It's now telling me there's no such driver 'via' or 'vesa' but I have xserver-xorg-video-all installed  ><
[12:30] <bluefox> oh.  abi version for vesa.  /me grumbles
[12:31] <Burgwork> pitti, LWN did a survey earlier this year which also praised our security response
[12:31] <Burgwork> bluefox, this is not a user support channel
[12:31] <bluefox> Burgwork:  yes I know.
[12:31] <Burgwork> pitti, which means you. So congratulations
[12:31] <pitti> joy :)
[12:32] <tseng> bluefox: most of those have already been fixed
[12:32] <tseng> bluefox: and if you cant have a broken X without making a fuss, indeed, you should not run development
[12:32] <Kamion> pitti wins the "works really hard" award
[12:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: unlike you, who is clearly a slacker?
[12:33] <tseng> Kamion trails the desktop team imo
[12:33] <tseng> :P
[12:34] <pitti> Burgwork: at least today  is the first time when we managed to get a new firefox version out before upstream announced it :)
[12:34] <pitti> until now we had an average response time of 6 days or so
[12:35] <Burgwork> is that because mozilla is playing nicer with Linux distros?
[12:36] <pitti> Burgwork: not, it's just that this time we just started working on it earlier
[12:36] <pitti> Burgwork: of course hoary and breezy are fucked again
[12:36] <pitti> and require some weeks of backporting
[12:36] <pitti> at least in 1.5.0.5, half of the vulns do not affect 1.0.x in the first place
[12:37] <bluefox> pitti:  Wasn't the policy, for a brief period, "Just upgrade to the new firefox version"?
[12:37] <pitti> Burgwork: but also the recent microversion updates from upstream are much better than early 1.0.x updates
[12:37] <pitti> Burgwork: back then, these updates were pretty messy, and so were the advisories
[12:37] <Burgwork> bluefox, 1.5 breaks api/abi and thus all things needing gecko would need to be recompiled
[12:37] <pitti> there was much complaint, and now they are doing very good, with embargoed vendor pre-notifictaions and such
[12:37] <Burgwork> which is a rather large list
[12:38] <bluefox> Burgwork:  oh right.  I forgot they haven't stabilized their freaking ABI.
[12:38] <pitti> bluefox: not a policy, it was an option we tested
[12:38] <doko> is there an applet to watch the cpu temperature?
[12:38] <pitti> bluefox: we gave up after it broke half of the world and gtkmozembed
[12:38] <bluefox> pitti:  looking forward to XUL runner?  :)
[12:38] <pitti> doko: yep, I used this for some time (tied to lm-sensors
[12:39] <zul> hey
[12:39] <pitti> bluefox: won't solve the principal problem
[12:39] <ogra> doko, i have a small python thingie for the notificationn area
[12:39] <pitti> doko: sensors-applet IIRC
[12:39] <ogra> want it ? 
[12:39] <bluefox> pitti:  I guess not.
[12:39] <aimaz> is there a way to compile just one module?
[12:40] <aimaz> instead of `make modules` to make them all
[12:40] <ogra> doesnt module-assistant address that ? or is it only for "not in kernel tree" modules ?
[12:47] <shawarma> aimaz: Sure. make modules DIRS=/path/to/the/directory/that/holds/the/source/for/the/module
[12:48] <zul> hey 
[12:48] <shawarma> fabbione: Hey! Any action today?
[12:49] <shawarma> aimaz: Something along those lines anyway. Check the top-level makefile. It's got loads of helpful comments.
[12:50] <aimaz> shawarma, ok, thanks
[12:50] <fabbione> shawarma: no nothing yet
[12:51] <doko> 90C CPU ..., then it throttles down 
[01:02] <shawarma> fabbione: How much overdue is she?
[01:02] <Kamion> Keybuk: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3581111/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.debian-installer_20060711ubuntu5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[01:02] <fabbione> shawarma: 2 weeks
[01:02] <Kamion> Keybuk: does udev-udeb actually use libvolumeid0? if so, I need to tweak your packaging
[01:03] <sistpoty> infinity: can you help me with bootstrapping fpc? (bug #2253)
[01:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2253 in fpc "fpc needs bootstrapping on buildds" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2253
[01:03] <Keybuk> Kamion: oh, grr
[01:03] <Keybuk> that's my bad, sorry
[01:03] <Keybuk> the udeb is supposed to have a statically linked vol_id
[01:03] <Kamion> ah
[01:03] <shawarma> fabbione: Gah.. She must be REALLY impatient by now.
[01:04] <fabbione> shawarma: yeah indeed
[01:04] <Kamion> Keybuk: can I let you take care of requeueing debian-installer once you've fixed that? I'll be away tomorrow
[01:04] <Keybuk> Kamion: how do I do that?
[01:04] <Keybuk> is it just a source package?
[01:05] <Kamion> yes
[01:05] <Keybuk> ok, given back
[01:05] <Kamion> plain and simple - it's only the .changes that is a little odd
[01:05] <Keybuk> uh, s/given back/fixed udev uploaded/
[01:05] <Kamion> Keybuk: err, surely only after you've fixed udev? :-)
[01:05] <Keybuk> I knew what I meant :p
[01:05] <Kamion> aha
[01:06] <Keybuk> had removed that by accident while debugging stuff
[01:09] <bddebian> Heya
[01:25] <pitti> ogra: new ubugtu feature?
[01:26] <ogra> pitti, it reports new bugs in lp immediately to #ubuntu-bugs
[01:26] <pitti> ah, cool
[01:26] <bluefox> ubugtu's best feature is @chuck
[01:26] <zul> eh?
[01:26] <pitti> ogra: DoSing the channel, eh? :)
[01:27] <ogra> not atm ... but i will part from there during release time :)
[01:27] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:30] <pitti> Kamion: dapper point release> we should check whether we got the pbbuttonsd fix in to disable anacron on the live CD; I don't know off-hand whether we did that already
[01:32] <pitti> but since there's no new version in dapper-updates, I suppose that's still outstanding
[01:32] <Kamion> pitti: no pbbuttonsd in dapper-updates; can you look at fixing that tomorrow?
[01:32] <pitti> Keybuk: ^ can you please confirm?
[01:32] <Keybuk> it wasn't a pbbuttonsd fix?
[01:32] <Keybuk> it was a casper fix
[01:32] <pitti> Keybuk: ah, casper
[01:32] <Keybuk> casper tried to disable anacron wrong
[01:32] <pitti> Keybuk: do we have the fix in dapper-updates already?
[01:32] <Keybuk> (given the stupid, pedantic, idiotic, crap way invoke-rc.d works)
[01:32] <Keybuk> I think so
[01:34] <Kamion> no, we don't
[01:38] <pitti> Riddell: some MIR like openct rang a bell, as if I had already seen them in the past and complained about hard supportability
[01:39] <Riddell> pitti: I could see if gpg2 can manage without it, I've no idea if it can or not
[01:42] <pitti> Riddell: I'll look at the stuff tomorrow in detail and talk with you
[01:43] <^ohoel> direct rendering with the ati drivers fail because X is trying to open /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r300_dri.so (which doesnt exist) instead of /usr/lib/dri/r300_dri.so
[01:43] <^ohoel> should I file a bug for that?
[01:43] <mjg59> In what?
[01:44] <mjg59> Dapper or edgy?
[01:44] <^ohoel> edgy :)
[01:44] <mjg59> Ok
[01:44] <^ohoel> upgraded, though
[01:44] <mjg59> Mesa's got ahead of X
[01:44] <Mithrandir> ^ohoel: file a bug, then :-)
[01:45] <mjg59> I'd check if there's a bug, but it ought to get fixed with the next xorg upload
[01:45] <^ohoel> okay, I'll do a clean knot1 install and see how things fare first then :)
[01:45] <crimsun> there's a bug on it already
[01:45] <crimsun> 54299
[01:45] <^ohoel> bug 54299
[01:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54299 in mesa "libGL.so can't find DRI modules" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54299
[01:46] <crimsun> the fix is described in the report.
[01:58] <bluefox> pitti:  I'm still curious as to how packages that break with GccSsp are handled
[02:03] <pitti> bluefox: there aren't many; we just found glibc so far
[02:03] <pitti> bluefox: and if there is any, the quick fix is just to build with -fno-stack-protector
[02:03] <pitti> bluefox: of course it's better to fix the actual bug
[02:03] <slomo> pitti: don't forget libgcc (or is this now working with ssp?) :)
[02:04] <pitti> slomo: right, but that has been fixed
[02:04] <bluefox> pitti:  but no plan on providing a mechanism for reporting, i.e. so the user can easily audit which packages (in main at least) aren't protected?
[02:04] <pitti> bluefox: reporting?
[02:05] <Kamion> pitti: yaboot was another; it builds without libc
[02:05] <pitti> bluefox: I plan to write a script to report packages which aren't yet built with ssp, if you mean that
[02:05] <pitti> Kamion: right
[02:05] <Kamion> I made it use -fno-stack-protector
[02:05] <Kamion> it doesn't use -fstandalone though, not sure what's up with that
[02:05] <bluefox> pitti:  amortized, it's a big help; strictly speaking, I can't 'rely' on stack smash protection to actually be applied to any package
[02:05] <Kamion> does -fstandalone imply -fno-stack-protector? If not, it surely should
[02:06] <bluefox> pitti:  albeit amortized gains are often very, very awesome in practice ;)
[02:06] <bluefox> Kamion:  any library that doesn't use glibc or libssp can supply __stack_chk_fail() and friends itself ne?
[02:06] <bluefox> the kernel for example; although this is largely useless according to the hardened gentoo guys.
[02:07] <Kamion> bluefox: nm -D <binary> | grep __stack_chk_fail could be wrapped easily enough
[02:07] <Kamion> bluefox: I don't see the point for most standalone things
[02:07] <bluefox> (I've only witnessed one stack buffer overflow in the kernel ever myself)
[02:07] <bluefox> Kamion:  Not all programs have __stack_chk_fail() in them, I did write a script to test for it.
[02:07] <Kamion> aside from the kernel, they're not usually running on security boundaries
[02:07] <bluefox> there's a few executables and libraries that never use a local char[]  buffer
[02:07] <bluefox> so they don't get any protection (they don't need it)
[02:08] <bluefox> thus they don't go looking for the symbol
[02:09] <Kamion> mdz: do you think we can basically sync oo.o from dapper-proposed to dapper-updates, then? i.e. are you in principle happy with it as it stands?
[02:12] <Kamion> Keybuk: the archive's all yours for the weekend ;)
[02:12] <Keybuk> heh
[02:13] <pitti> Kamion: have fun at the wedding
[02:13] <Keybuk> I promise not to redecorate while you're away :)
[02:13] <Kamion> mdz: I've sent mail to Adam about the livefs sorting stuff and asking him if he can do a dapper livefs build
[02:13] <Kamion> thanks
[02:13] <Kamion> I bet that's what you say to all the boys
[02:13] <bluefox> lol
[02:13] <mdz> Kamion: I haven't even looked at it; was there an email with the changes?
[02:13] <bluefox> Weddings are nowhere to look for boys.  Try college.
[02:14] <pitti> good night everyone
[02:14] <bluefox> later pitti
[02:14] <Kamion> mdz: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-July/011897.html
[02:14] <Keybuk> Kamion: only when David's out of earshot
[02:14] <Kamion> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-July/011898.html
[02:14] <Kamion> that's the best I can offer at present
[02:18] <Keybuk> hmm?
[02:19] <Keybuk> I thought Lathiat was on the "don't enable by default" side?
[02:19] <robertj_> sounds good, anything to get my email to go down ;)
[02:19] <robertj_> I have to stand on it every morning & jump up & down to compress it
[02:19] <robertj_> otherwise my laptop won't close
[02:19] <Keybuk> doesn't that void your warranty?
[02:21] <bluefox> I am on the "don't enable by default" side
[02:21] <bluefox> these aren't macs
[02:23] <ohoel> I just love arguments that involve windows or mac :] 
[02:23] <bluefox> ohoel: don't macs have something like Avahi?
[02:24] <bluefox> and isn't their security model, "We're not PCs, we don't have any viruses"?
[02:24] <tseng> bluefox: apple wrote mdnsd
[02:24] <tseng> "bonjour"
[02:25] <ohoel> bluefox: yes, but I fail to see the relevancy of those arguments in any case...
[02:25] <ohoel> not just in this case but on a general basis
[02:25] <bluefox> tseng:  yes my point though is I'd rather not just one day wake up and find that I have something that magically makes changes to my network "as needed" to "get things working" with my only consolence being a pat on the back from Ubuntu saying, "We're pretty sure we're not exposing you to any security holes automatically"
[02:26] <mjg59> Oh god can we avoid this discussion *here* as well?
[02:26] <bluefox> which as I understand is what avahi does-- opens and closes doors on the network for random programs in places where they'd normally just not work
[02:26] <tseng> you are making things up
[02:26] <mjg59> tseng: Hush
[02:26] <mjg59> It's on the tech board agenda
[02:26] <bluefox> tseng:  no, not really.  Going on broken understanding of the topic maybe.
[02:26] <mjg59> I intend to spend Tuesday evening with a bottle of whisky and my laptop
[02:26] <tseng> bluefox: yes, lets all shutup.
[02:26] <bluefox> oh god no
[02:27] <bluefox> no coding while you're drunk
[02:27] <mjg59> bluefox: Oh, I won't be coding
[02:27] <mjg59> I'll just be making long-term decisions about the Ubuntu network security model
[02:27] <bluefox> just think about waking up the next day and saying, ".... Jesus, when the hell did I write THAT crap?"
[02:27] <mjg59> It'll be fine
[02:27] <mjg59> What could possibly go wrong (other than ANOTHER 10,000 EMAILS)
[02:27] <bluefox> I hope you're kidding
[02:28] <tseng> he revesed the macbook pro with a bottle of alcohol
[02:28] <tseng> he can handle it.
[02:29] <mjg59> bluefox: If you have any concern over any of the technical justifications I may give at the tech board meeting, please feel free to point them out
[02:29] <Keybuk> mjg59: we should have had a special emergency meeting of the technical board to discuss it while mdz was in the UK
[02:29] <mjg59> Keybuk: Yeah, with hindsight
[02:29] <Keybuk> in a pub
[02:29] <Keybuk> with an unlimited budget
[02:29] <mjg59> With Mark buying
[02:30] <Kamion> mjg59 is more together while drunk than a lot of people are while sober, to be perfectly honest
[02:30] <mjg59> Should have done it in Wolverhampton
[02:30] <bddebian> heh
[02:30] <mjg59> bluefox: I wrote usplash having spent an entire week very, very drunk
[02:31] <bluefox> mjg59:  I know people who claim they drive much, much better when they're smoking pot in the car; it doesn't make me feel any more secure ;)
[02:31] <Kamion> right, bed, see you lot on Monday
[02:31] <Keybuk> bluefox: especially when it's the guy at the front of the bus with the cap?
[02:31] <Keybuk> Kamion: enjoy
[02:33] <mjg59> Oh god there's a fruitfly in my beer
[02:33] <bluefox> eww.
[02:33] <mjg59> I probably carried it home in my hair
[02:33] <bluefox> I hate bugs, they're both icky and disgusting.
[02:33] <mjg59> I slaughtered about a thousand of them today
[02:35] <fabbione> WTF
[02:36] <fabbione> the house of the neibourg is on fire
[02:36] <fabbione> and it's burning close to main power lines
[02:36] <fabbione> if i fall off you know why
[02:36] <bluefox> I need X so bad.
[02:37] <bluefox> somebody bash.org fabbione
[02:37] <rodarvus> bluefox, whats wrong with X?
[02:38] <bluefox> rodarvus: it seems that half the drivers for the new X in edgy have not been uploaded to the build server, or something.
[02:38] <rodarvus> bluefox, yes, thats right
[02:38] <bluefox> including vesa and via (I have a via card), which are both my options; so I can't use X in edgy at the moment.
[02:38] <rodarvus> and that leads to the next question -> what is your video card?
[02:38] <rodarvus> ok
[02:39] <bluefox> rodarvus:  I think for future reference, when X is going to break its driver ABI, vesa should be rebuilt first :)
[02:39] <rodarvus> bluefox, if I prepare a via package in the next few minutes, and update it to a staging are, would you volunteer to test it?
[02:39] <bluefox> rodarvus:  Sure
[02:40] <fabbione> bluefox: nothing to joke about
[02:40] <fabbione> all the lines pass close to that house
[02:40] <rodarvus> fabbione, indeed
[02:40] <bluefox> fabbione:  I know, I'm a bad person.
[02:40] <fabbione> it's one of the oldest in the area
[02:41] <mdz> Kamion: can we easily adjust the progress bar in ubiquity for the point release, to account for the langpack changes?
[02:41] <Lathiat> bluefox, keybuk: while it'd be great if it was enabled by default its clearly not going to happen I don't see the Tech board overriding the decision of the responsible people to grant an extra open port policy in any case so its a moot point really IMHO
[02:42] <Lathiat> and sounds like the option to enable it is pretty much done in gnome & kde so people can stop arguing a solution is implemented ?:)
[02:42] <Lathiat> but we can discuss it at the TB if people think it'l help
[02:44] <mjg59> Lathiat: We're going to discuss it at TB to make the big pile of email go away
[02:45] <Lathiat> thats what i mean by helping :)
[02:47] <bddebian> Pleeeaasse :-)
[02:47] <Kamion> mdz: (still here because I'm INSANE) what langpack changes do you mean?
[02:48] <Kamion> anyway, yes, it's relatively straightforward to adjust if you just mean changing the waypoint positions
[02:49] <Kamion> really -> bed now
[02:49] <bddebian> Gnight Kamion
[02:58] <rodarvus> bluefox, I've built (and uploaded) xserver-xorg-video-via
[02:59] <rodarvus> it is also available at the staging repo I told you about -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~rodarvus/packages/xorg/
[02:59] <rodarvus> I'd appreciate if you could test it.
[02:59] <bluefox> rodarvus:  will get
[03:00] <rodarvus> please report as soon as you have results :)
[03:01] <Hobbsee> rodarvus: broken anything else today?  ;)
[03:02] <rodarvus> of course.
[03:02] <Hobbsee> rodarvus: oh dear :(
[03:02] <rodarvus> if its not broken, then its not interesting.
[03:04] <Amaranth> broken is fun
[03:04] <Amaranth> unbreaking binary drivers isn't
[03:06] <ajmitch> afternoon
[03:08] <bluefoxicy> well
[03:08] <bluefoxicy> The good news is, I'm back in X
[03:08] <bluefoxicy> The bad news is, I'm on a live CD.
[03:08] <bluefoxicy> rodarvus:  Starting X with that driver makes the system cease to respond
[03:09] <bluefoxicy> can't kill X, can't sysrequest, can still make the numlock light turn on and off.
[03:09] <bluefoxicy> I would call that not working.
[03:09] <rodarvus> hmm
[03:09] <rodarvus> fun stuff
[03:10] <rodarvus> bluefoxicy, do you have the rest of the X.Org libraries up-to-date?
[03:10] <bluefoxicy> yes, I apt-get update/upgrade/dist-upgraded about an hour ago at most.
[03:10] <rodarvus> *nods*
[03:11] <rodarvus> bluefoxicy, I uploaded xserver-xorg-video-vesa to the same location, if you're willing to test it
[03:11] <bluefoxicy> rodarvus:  Sure.  I'll just mount my root and... oh um, what URL again?  I seem to have lost that.  No logs.
[03:12] <rodarvus> bluefoxicy, also, the logs of the failure using the via driver + xorg.conf would be immensely appreciated (attached to new bug on LaunchPad :) )
[03:12] <rodarvus> http://people.ubuntu.com/~rodarvus/packages/xorg/
[03:12] <bluefoxicy> rodarvus:  yeah I should be able to get an xorg.0.log; the system seemed alive, just ill responsive, so it probably made a log.
[03:13] <rodarvus> indeed.
[03:14] <rodarvus> bluefoxicy, also, please make sure you (temporarily) add this repository to your sources.list, to make sure the rest of the (input) drivers you might be using are up-to-date too
[03:15] <Hobbsee> rodarvus: do you happen to know if X is broken for everyone, or just the ATI/Nvidia users?
[03:15] <bluefoxicy> rodarvus:  deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~rodarvus/packages/xorg/ / main?
[03:16] <rodarvus> Hobbsee, nvidia binary driver is not affected, don't know about ati
[03:17] <rodarvus> ati and nvidia opensource drivers are already uploaded (and published)
[03:17] <rodarvus> deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~rodarvus/packages/xorg ./
[03:17] <rodarvus> deb-src http://people.ubuntu.com/~rodarvus/packages/xorg ./
[03:18] <bluefoxicy> ah.   Just ./, ok.
[03:18] <Hobbsee> rodarvus: right, okay.  any idea on intel cards, specifically (just the default drivers)?
[03:19] <rodarvus> Hobbsee, i810 is published too
[03:20] <Hobbsee> rodarvus: cool.  it just might be safe to update then :P
[03:20] <rodarvus> Hobbsee, http://people.ubuntu.com/~rodarvus/packages/xorg/status.txt always has up-to-date information on what has been uploaded/published
[03:20] <zul> its always safe ;)
[03:20] <Hobbsee> zul: well, they havent had apt break dramatically in a while, so i guess you could say that.
[03:20] <rodarvus> Hobbsee, Edgy is a development version of Ubuntu - if it breaks, you get to ammend the pieces ;)
[03:21] <Hobbsee> rodarvus: ah, thanks :)
[03:21] <Hobbsee> rodarvus: i'm aware of that - i'm just not that great a fan of losing X if i dont have to :P
[03:21] <Hobbsee> seeing as i dont have the expertise to fix it
[03:21] <fabbione> X is obsoleted :)
[03:21] <fabbione> who needs X anyway...
[03:21] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:21] <zul> rodarvus is obsolete :)
[03:21] <rodarvus> actually, if I'm not wrong, Edgy is not upgradeable right now, due to missing update on openoffice.org-l10n-en_gb & openoffice.org-l10n-en_za
[03:22] <Hobbsee> bit hard to fix kubuntu with no X.
[03:22] <fabbione> Hobbsee: gtkfb? no qtfb?
[03:22] <Hobbsee> rodarvus: ah yeah, i noticed that.  i was more concerned with the mesa stuff, that might kill my machine for a while
[03:22] <Hobbsee> fabbione: er, what?
[03:22] <sistpoty> Hobbsee: bah... during breezy x was broken for about two weeks (or longer)... ;)
[03:22] <rodarvus> zul, I'll plant a trojan horse on X - we'll see who's obsoleted :)
[03:22] <fabbione> Hobbsee: gtk with directfb support :)
[03:22] <Hobbsee> fabbione: ah.  no idea.
[03:22] <bluefoxicy> rebooting.
[03:23] <zul> rodarvus: ill plant a trojan horse in the kernel so there ;)
[03:23] <rodarvus> (pseudo-code) if username == 'zul' abort();
[03:23] <fabbione> Hobbsee: so you get rid of X 100%.. tho you need a working fb :P
[03:23] <Hobbsee> fabbione: haha great.
[03:23] <rodarvus> zul, we're even, then :)
[03:24] <zul> rodarvus: damn straight :)
[03:24] <fabbione> tsk
[03:25] <fabbione> rodarvus, zul: you have both being owned...
[03:25] <zul> fabbione: yes my master...
[03:25] <fabbione> raise young lords of the sith
[03:26] <zul> heh..
[03:26] <zul> did i mention that i dont like star wars ;)
[03:29] <bluefoxicy> rodarvus: upgraded from your repo, via still busted.  vesa works.
[03:30] <rodarvus> hooray
[03:30] <rodarvus> bluefoxicy, please report the via brokeness to LaunchPad
[03:30] <rodarvus> I'll deal with it tomorrow, probably
[03:41] <bluefoxicy> wow did this get worse since last time I looked at it
[03:43] <rodarvus> bluefoxicy, ?
[03:44] <bluefoxicy> rodarvus:  scrolling causes a ripple to start at the bottom of the screen and climb to the top for about half a second; same if I get a message in a channel where the IRC window is full of text
[03:44] <bluefoxicy> I just don't remember the vesa driver being this slow.
[03:44] <rodarvus> vesa driver is slow.
[03:44] <rodarvus> it is not accelerated
[03:45] <bluefoxicy> so I noticed!  :D
[03:46] <jsgotangco> isn't that the behavior ever since?
[03:46] <bluefoxicy> jsgotangco:  I used to watch videos with Vesa.  It'd eat 100% cpu but the video was smooth :)
[03:46] <jsgotangco> thats why vesa is such a bad way to benchmark right
[03:46] <jsgotangco> ahh
[03:46] <bluefoxicy> It was slow, yeah, I just don't remember it being *this* slow :)  At any rate, not important; it works.
[03:47] <rodarvus> bluefoxicy, don't forget to open the bug on LP :)
[03:48] <bluefoxicy> rodarvus:  that's what I'm doing :)
[03:48] <bluefoxicy> #54308
[03:52] <rodarvus> bluefoxicy, please attach the output of lspci -vv to this bug too
[03:52] <rodarvus> sorry, forgot to tell you before
[03:54] <bluefoxicy> done.
[03:57] <rodarvus> bluefoxicy, thanks
[05:23] <bddebian> fabbione: You up yet?
[05:23] <fabbione> bddebian: i never went to sleep
[05:23] <bddebian> Yikes
[05:23] <bddebian> fabbione: Any idea why we diverged from Debian for twm?
[05:24] <fabbione> bddebian: probably because of modular tree hitting Ubuntu a year earlier than Debian?
[05:24] <fabbione> but otherwise no
[05:24] <bddebian> Oh, aye, duh.  Probably safe to re-sync back now though eh?
[05:24] <Chipzz> oh btw
[05:25] <Chipzz> thx for fixing X :)
[05:25] <fabbione> bddebian: i assume so...
[05:25] <Chipzz> (whoever fixed it :))
[05:25] <fabbione> bddebian: i don't use twm so i really have no idea
[05:25] <bddebian> fabbione: OK sorry, just the last changelog entry from Daniel Stone says taking maintainership from you..
[05:25] <Chipzz> on debian though :P
[05:26] <fabbione> bddebian: i think i did one or two uploads because i was doing the batch of X apps when we went modular
[05:26] <Chipzz> though I can't really grasp why someone would be as masochistic as to use twm :|
[05:27] <fabbione> Chipzz: a long time ago, there was no other option...
[05:27] <Chipzz> fabbione: as in, 15 years ago
[05:27] <bddebian> fabbione: OK, sorry to bug you just trying to cover my ass before merging/syncing.  Thanks.
[05:27] <Chipzz> nowadays, computers have more than 4MB of ram :P
[05:27] <bddebian> Chipzz: Some people don't like all the fluff
[05:27] <fabbione> Chipzz: when i started using linux on 486, i can tell you that gnome as we know it know, would have never gone so far
[05:28] <fabbione> Chipzz: and for the use i make of X, openbox is way tooo much for me
[05:28] <Chipzz> bddebian: yes, but for crying out loud, you even need to position the windows yourself
[05:30] <angasule> I have a 486 dx2 66 MHz, 8MB RAM, a hercules card and ambar screen (also a 286, but that's in a closet, not working)
[05:30] <angasule> some guy, somewhere, actually wants to run linux in a toaster
[05:31] <Chipzz> fabbione: I can understand you don't require much from a window manager, but there are other very simple wm's that do have very few resource requirements, and are easier to use :)
[05:31] <Chipzz> angasule: do you actually *use* that box? ;)
[05:32] <fabbione> Chipzz: it's a matter of choise
[05:32] <fabbione> Chipzz: and i use a similar box as angasule .. m68k 8Mb of RAM
[05:32] <Chipzz> I have a 486dx2 80Mhz, 24MB ram, and last I used it it was for having a shitload of consoles open at 132x60 ;)
[05:32] <angasule> hmm, I keep it off most of the time, because it's in my room, but the idea is to use it as a web server, works just fine for that
[05:32] <angasule> I love the ambar screen
[05:33] <angasule> and what do you use X for, Chipzz?
[05:33] <Chipzz> firefox mostly
[05:33] <Chipzz> and rxvt for ssh'ing to other hosts
[05:33] <Chipzz> rxvt and gnome-terminal
[05:34] <infinity> I pretty much just use X as a better way to have a few dozen terminals.
[05:34] <angasule> what got me in this channel is another piece of old hardware, a Warrior 5
[05:34] <Chipzz> sometimes evince
[05:34] <Chipzz> infinity: alt-f[x]  is a very fast way of switching consoles
[05:34] <fabbione> infinity:  i knew you were going to stick your head out just mentioning m68k
[05:34] <infinity> Chipzz: I don't have 40+ function keys.
[05:34] <angasule> Warrior 5 is the typical soundcard joystick, 2 axes, 2 buttons
[05:35] <Chipzz> infinity: alt-shift-fx will give you 24 :)
[05:35] <infinity> Chipzz: I know.  That's not quite enough. :)
[05:35] <Chipzz> infinity: also, there's screen ;)
[05:35] <bddebian> Heya infinity
[05:35] <infinity> Of course, now that I'm tied to launchpad, I also need a few billion firefox tabs at any given moment, too.
[05:35] <infinity> So yay for that.
[05:35] <bddebian> Oh, infinity, while you are here, are there any of your Universe merges you wouldn't want me to touch?
[05:36] <angasule> I'm using kubuntu, and there is no way to configure a soundcard gameport joystick, I had to resort to modprobe'ing and mknode'ing and sustantivising
[05:37] <infinity> bddebian: Nope, they're all fair game.
[05:37] <bddebian> infinity: OK, thx
[05:37] <bddebian> Oh, fabbione, what about xfs?
[05:37] <infinity> bddebian: Most of it just looks like small FTBFS tweaks and such.
[05:38] <bddebian> Aye
[05:38] <infinity> bddebian: dmraid may be a bit more, but just be careful.
[05:38] <bddebian> OK, thx
[05:38] <bddebian> I don't know if I'll hit them all, I just want to make sure I don't step on any toes
[05:38] <fabbione> bddebian: same as twm
[05:39] <bddebian> fabbione: Fair enough, thx
[05:39] <fabbione> bddebian: universe stuff, just do it.. i don't care enough to go and look
[05:39] <fabbione> bddebian: otherwise it would probably be in main
[05:39] <infinity> bddebian: As a general rule, unless I'm listed in the Maintainer or Uploaders field (ie: I maintain it in Debian), I don't really maintain anything in universe, beyond random bugfixes.
[05:39] <infinity> bddebian: So, it's all fair game, IMO.
[05:40] <bddebian> I know, but it seems as soon as I do something, I get in trouble for a package I shouldn't have touched :-)
[08:33] <sivang> morning
[08:33] <sivang> so, X is broken, and I forgot all about it and rebooted last night, what do I do to bring it back? :-)
[08:34] <ajmitch> upgrade your drivers, they should be built & in the archive by now
[08:34] <sivang> ajmitch: okay, thanks
[08:35] <sivang> ajmitch: what was the bug the prevented them from working?
[08:35] <ajmitch> driver ABI
[08:37] <sivang> ah, cool then
[08:50] <Lathiat> is anyeon else having issues with it not mounting your rootfs?
[08:50] <Lathiat> sits there waiting forever, but if i boot the oldest dapper kernel i have + set root= back to /dev/md2 it works
[08:50] <Lathiat> (but neither alone is enougH)
[08:53] <bluefoxicy> why am I up at 3am still.
[08:55] <whiprush> Gman: ping
[08:55] <Gman> hi whiprush 
[08:55] <whiprush> quick question for you.
[08:56] <whiprush> I'm giving some talks over the next few months about our gnome deployment, which uses sunrays, I read that sun plans to made their entire 
[08:56] <whiprush> "middleware" stack OSS.
[08:56] <whiprush> does this include the sunray server stuff?
[08:57] <Gman> i honestly don't know
[08:58] <Gman> though if i could, i'd probably only say that 'all software at sun will eventually be open sourced'
[08:58] <Gman> which is basically what jonathan has said previously
[08:58] <whiprush> Gman: any idea where I should look for an answer? corporate websites suck at helping me find an answer. :-/
[08:58] <Gman> ombudsman@sun.com
[08:59] <whiprush> Gman: sweet, thanks.
[08:59] <Gman> which is basically an email for simon phipps
[08:59] <Gman> our open source officer
[08:59] <Gman> he's pretty responsive
[08:59] <whiprush> cool.
[08:59] <sivang> Gman: that's cool
[09:10] <sivang> ajmitch: hrm, so that didn't work , what's next? :)
[09:10] <ajmitch> sivang: can't say, since I don't know what's breaking
[09:12] <sivang> ajmitch: I get an error about the abi being unmatching
[09:12] <ajmitch> which driver?
[09:12] <sivang> ajmitch: module abi is 0, server is 1
[09:12] <sivang> ajmitch: ati
[09:13] <ajmitch> updated drivers should fix that, maybe the one you use hasn't been built
[09:13] <sivang> going to check their build status
[09:39] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: ajmitch: how much is tcl used in the real world? have you ever heard of openacs?
[09:40] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: TCL is used a _lot_ in the real world
[09:41] <Burgundavia> Treenaks: how common are open source people who know/use tcl?
[09:41] <Treenaks> I have no idea
[09:41] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: Everyone who has touched eggdrop :P
[09:41] <whiprush> tons of TCL in unis
[09:42] <Burgundavia> just wondering, because my company just opensourced some stuff that runs on openacs
[09:44] <sivang> ajmitch: do you know which version the driver abi was fixed in?
[09:44] <Burgundavia> whiprush: is TCL something people are itching to write? or have they moved on to other languages?
[09:45] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: TCL.. itching.. stop the puns
[09:45] <crimsun> xserver-xorg-video-ati_6.6.1-0ubuntu1
[09:45] <Treenaks> :)
[09:45] <Treenaks> crimsun: ?
[09:45] <crimsun> ^ sivang 
[09:45] <whiprush> Burgundavia: it's like cobol and motif, it ain't ever going away. 
[09:46] <sivang> crimsun: ah, so it's video now?
[09:46] <sivang> crimsun: I only have driver-ati
[09:46] <crimsun> sivang: right, xserver-xorg-driver* are now obsoleted
[09:46] <sivang> crimsun: shouldn't that transition occure automatically through the packaging system?
[09:47] <ajmitch> sivang: yes, it should
[09:47] <crimsun> sivang: rodarvus is working on that (it surfaced at the dev team meeting yesterday)
[09:47] <sivang> crimsun: I see, thanks. I wasn't able to attend the dev meeting :-/
[09:48] <sivang> crimsun: do I need to install differently names xorg packages altogether? I mean, other then naming changes in the driver packages?
[09:49] <sivang> mornign dholbach 
[09:49] <ajmitch> hi dholbach 
[09:49] <crimsun> sivang: probably not. Do you have 'xorg' installed?
[09:50] <dholbach> good morning
[09:50] <dholbach> hey sivang, hey ajmitch, hey crimsun
[09:50] <crimsun> hey dholbach :)
[09:51] <sivang> crimsun: 7.0.22ubuntu7
[09:51] <sivang> crimsun: yay, thanks, you saved me :-)
[09:51] <dholbach> can anybody of the archive administrators please look what happened to jokosher? it' in "Needs Build" for three days now
[09:52] <slomo> dholbach: it was build yesterday
[09:52] <dholbach> it was?
[09:52] <slomo> dholbach: yes
[09:53] <pitti> Good morning
[09:53] <slomo> dholbach: it's again on NEW for the binary
[09:53] <slomo> hi pitti 
[09:53] <dholbach> urg
[09:53] <dholbach> thanks slomo
[09:53] <dholbach> i was wondering already
[09:53] <crimsun> sivang: ah, for it to transition, you need xserver-xorg-driver-all installed.
[09:53] <pitti> argh, nice to wake up and be greeted with a broken GTK *grump* :)
[09:57] <pitti> argh, half of my desktop's text lines keep disappearing
[09:57] <dholbach> pitti: hm?
[09:57] <dholbach> hey el! how are you?
[09:57] <crimsun> sivang: sorry, that was poorly worded on my part. I mean that xserver-xorg-video-all (a binary from the xorg source package) Conflicts with xserver-xorg-driver-all.
[09:59] <pitti> dholbach: dunno, since I booted my box some minutes ago, text from all apps just 'disappears' and reappears when I force the area to redraw itself
[09:59] <slomo> pitti: a friend of mine has the same problem... we couldn't find the reason :(
[09:59] <pitti> IZ GTK BUG!
[09:59] <crimsun> which X driver?
[09:59] <dholbach> pitti: all apps - that's not just the terminal?
[09:59] <pitti> and this time it could even be true
[09:59] <pitti> dholbach: right, all apps
[10:00] <pitti> crimsun: nvidia
[10:00] <sivang> crimsun: yes, however when I willfully installed -video-ati, it install video-all and removed the other one
[10:00] <pitti> crimsun: it didn't change since yesterday, I believe
[10:00] <slomo> pitti: does it work with nv for you?
[10:00] <crimsun> pitti: so binary-only?
[10:00] <pitti> slomo: will try, but nv has been broken for me since over a year
[10:00] <dholbach> slomo: does he use 'nvidia' too?
[10:00] <pitti> slomo: so I do not have that much choice, really
[10:00] <slomo> dholbach, pitti: yes... but switching to nv didn't change anything
[10:00] <dholbach> hrm
[10:00] <pitti> crimsun: yep, but as I said, it's the same driver that has worked perfectly for a looong time
[10:01] <crimsun> from what I understand the binary-only Nvidia driver does not work with the new xserver-xorg-core (ABI); you have to disable renderaccel
[10:01] <pitti> ok, I'll try with nvidia, then we can narrow down the cause
[10:01] <pitti> ah, right, we got a new X server yesterday
[10:01] <dholbach> anything in .xsession-errors or in the X logs?
[10:02] <dholbach> strange, I use 'nv' and it's all fine
[10:02] <dholbach> on an amd64
[10:02] <pitti> dholbach: logs have nothing interesting
[10:04] <dholbach> pitti: want to try 'nv' and compare /etx/X11/xorg.conf with me? (as it seems to work for me)
[10:04] <slomo> hm... does somebody else have the problem that almost all X applications become fairly slow over time? especially firefox when openening a page with many/large pictures
[10:06] <el> hey dholbach ! fine :) we still didn't have ice cream... ;-)
[10:07] <dholbach> el: and now it cooled off - strangely enough :)
[10:07] <Lathiat> slomo: in dapper or edgy?
[10:07] <desrt> vuntz; poke poke
[10:07] <Lathiat> slomo: i find my work pc gets pretty bogged up from time to time
[10:07] <ajmitch> pitti: yes, I've been seeing the same text bug
[10:07] <Lathiat> especially with firefox
[10:07] <pitti> dholbach: yep, I cannot work like this; let me restart X
[10:07] <desrt> oh.  heh
[10:07] <ajmitch> pitti: it makes using firefox really fun :)
[10:07] <desrt> the overlap between this channel and #g-hackers is amusing
[10:07] <el> dholbach, yeah, but good for sleeping
[10:07] <slomo> Lathiat: edgy... and the problem is fairly new and reproducible ;)
[10:07] <ajmitch> pitti: I also think it's not gtk, sorry :)
[10:07] <Lathiat> slomo: ah ok
[10:08] <Lathiat> slomo: probably completely unrelated then :)
[10:08] <dholbach> el: absolutely :)
[10:09] <pitti> ajmitch: it's not confined to ffox, it's everywhere
[10:09] <ajmitch> pitti: including kde apps
[10:09] <crimsun> ajmitch: have you tried adding Option "RenderAccel" "0" to the Device section?
[10:09] <crimsun> ^ also pitt
[10:09] <crimsun> i
[10:09] <ajmitch> crimsun: no, I haven't
[10:09] <ajmitch> crimsun: it doesn't show if I'm running in Xgl, either
[10:10] <ajmitch> I'm too lazy to fiddle with xorg.conf at the moment
[10:12] <pitti> argh, argh, I hate such days
[10:13] <pitti> dholbach: "(EE) module ABI major version (0) doesn't match the server's version (1)"
[10:13] <ajmitch> pitti: regretting the upgrade?
[10:13] <ajmitch> pitti: nv driver?
[10:13] <dholbach> pitti: did you do a complete dist-upgrade?
[10:14] <pitti> crimsun: ok, what do I have to deactivate again to make it work again with nvidia?
[10:14] <dholbach> pitti: (newest xserver-xorg-core and video-nv)
[10:14] <pitti> yes, I have the latest -nv that is available
[10:14] <pitti> but it's for the old ABI
[10:14] <crimsun> pitti: you need to add Option "RenderAccel" "0" to the Device section of /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and you need to tell Xorg to ignore ABI
[10:14] <slomo> pitti: video-nv or driver-nv?
[10:15] <pitti> (II) Module nv: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[10:15] <pitti>         compiled for 7.0.0, module version = 1.0.1
[10:15] <crimsun> pitti: -ignoreABI
[10:15] <ajmitch> crimsun: strangely I haven't had to tell X to ignore ABI
[10:15] <crimsun> ah
[10:15] <pitti> slomo: I have -driver-nv
[10:15] <slomo> pitti: you need -video-nv
[10:15] <pitti> crimsun: ah, I thought something like render_accell
[10:15] <slomo> pitti: the -driver* are the old ones
[10:16] <pitti> shouldn't that be upgraded automatically?
[10:16] <pitti> slomo: thank you
[10:17] <slomo> pitti: just install xserver-xorg-video-all and -input-all :)
[10:17] <pitti> yep, doing that ATM
[10:18] <pitti> crimsun: many thanks
[10:18] <crimsun> np
[10:21] <pitti> dholbach: ok, nv does not seem to have this problem; XV is broken with it as usual, but a least I can work now :) thanks
[10:21] <dholbach> XV?
[10:22] <crimsun> Xvideo extension
[10:26] <sivang> pitti: I was also surprised it wasn;t upgraded automatically ;)
[10:27] <pitti> dholbach: watching videos is impossible with the nv driver, at least for me
[10:28] <ogra> dholbach, 
[10:28] <pitti> dholbach: as soon as I scale them to more than 1.5x, I get comb artifacts and heavy distortions
[10:28] <ogra>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND            
[10:28] <ogra>  5836 ogra      17   0 1107m 743m 5216 D  5.6 84.2  18:58.94 evolution
[10:28] <ogra> i have 1G in this laptop !
[10:29] <pitti> ogra: lucky you, since yesterday evo crashes right at the start
[10:29] <dholbach> pitti: in gstreamer-properties, i use X11/XShm/Xv - if that helps
[10:29] <pitti> ogra: I added an echo to my .bashrc to replace my todo list :/
[10:29] <ajmitch> ogra: ah, that's why I use mutt :)
[10:29] <dholbach> ogra: what does it do atm? is it hanging?
[10:30] <ogra> dholbach, it made my system 100% stuck ... 
[10:30] <ogra> i had to force-shutdown to even write in xchat again
[10:31] <sivang> pitti: switch to thunderbird :p
[10:31] <ogra> btw, it would be clever if --force-shutdown wouldnt need $DISPLAY to be set so you can kill from console ;)
[10:31] <dholbach> ogra: i have a --force-shutdown button on the panel :-(
[10:31] <ogra> was a bit painful ding that in X if the cursor only moves every 30sec
[10:31] <ogra> *doing
[10:31] <dholbach> ogra: although the evolution edgy doesn't hang as much as the dapper one used to
[10:32] <ogra> it never crashed for me (yet)
[10:32] <dholbach> "hang"
[10:32] <pitti> sivang: what would that change? I use mutt for email and evo for calendar, todo, and contacts
[10:32] <ogra> and this was the first hang...
[10:32] <dholbach> ogra: remember anything you did before it started freaking out?
[10:33] <ogra> i answered a mail from mdz
[10:33] <ogra> ARGH
[10:33] <ogra> bug buddy !
[10:33] <sivang> pitti: ah, I see , then nothing.
[10:35] <ogra> pitti, damned ... im in the same boat now ... evo dies on the start ... 
[10:35] <pitti> ogra: *hug*
[10:35] <dholbach> try  evolution -c calendar   and then switch to mail
[10:35] <ogra> and i have still 75 unread mails :(
[10:36] <pitti> ogra: if the clock applet's evo integration were less crappy, it would at least help to get my TODO list...
[10:36] <ogra> dholbach, nope ... bug buddy
[10:37] <dholbach> ogra: you're uptodate?
[10:37] <ogra> dholbach, the mail to mdz was unsent ... i guess it has to do something with the recovery dialog that asks you abut open mails ...
[10:37] <pitti> dholbach: I'm not uptodate, apt-get dist-upgrade wants to remove gnome-applets and gnome-panel
[10:38] <pitti> but it would install new evolution libraries
[10:38] <pitti> hey seb128 
[10:38] <seb128> hey pitti
[10:38] <seb128> pitti: what about evolution?
[10:38] <pitti> edgy sucks today
[10:38] <pitti> seb128: it crashes on startup since yesterday
[10:38] <ogra> seb128, its broken
[10:38] <seb128> not it's not
[10:39] <pitti> and dist-upgrade would remove gnome-{panel,applets}
[10:39] <seb128> pitti: why?
[10:39] <ogra> seb128, 
   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND            
  5836 ogra      17   0 1107m 743m 5216 D  5.6 84.2  18:58.94 evolution
 i have 1G in this laptop !
[10:39] <ogra> tell me again thats not broken :P
[10:39] <seb128> ogra: it's broken for you != it's broken
[10:39] <seb128> ogra: it's not broken
[10:39] <ogra> and for pitti :)
[10:39] <seb128> ogra: it's not broken
[10:39] <seb128> ogra: it's not broken
[10:39] <seb128> I can say it again if you want :p
[10:39] <seb128> powerpc?
[10:40] <dholbach> ogra: which evolution and evolution-data-server version do you have?
[10:40] <ogra> seb128, could you write it in capitals ? :P 
[10:40] <ogra> seb128, no amd64 with i386 install :)
[10:40] <seb128> ogra: you know, that's not the way to act if you want to get something fixed
[10:40] <ogra> yes, sorry
[10:40] <seb128> ogra: I'm near to /ignore you
[10:40] <seb128> I'm fine with debugging, but free rant against me is not useful
[10:40] <pitti> ok, I manually installed all the evo-related upgrades now
[10:41] <seb128> pitti: 5 libs changed soname on that update
[10:41] <dholbach> good morning dear seb128, did you sleep well? :-)
[10:41] <seb128> pitti: if you could provide some details on upgrade issue
[10:41] <pitti> yep, that seemed to have helped
[10:41] <seb128> dholbach: hi dholbach :)
[10:41] <pitti> seb128: yay, evo works again with the manual upgrades
[10:41] <seb128> dholbach: not really, too short, 2:30am to 8am
[10:41] <dholbach> seb128: you uploaded stuff at 8:30? what happened?
[10:41] <pitti> seb128: shall we look into the broken upgrade of panel and applets?
[10:42] <seb128> dholbach: there was ready yesterday but I didn't want to upload before going to bed, so I uploaded before going to the supermarket this morning
[10:42] <seb128> pitti: sure
[10:42] <dholbach> ahhh ok
[10:42] <dholbach> seb128: you should sleep more :)
[10:42] <seb128> pitti: 
 pitti: 5 libs changed soname on that update
 pitti: if you could provide some details on upgrade issue
[10:42] <seb128> pitti: is that on i386?
[10:42] <pitti> seb128: amd64
[10:43] <seb128> dholbach: that's planned for saturday and sunday :)
[10:43] <pitti> gnome-applets-data | 2.15.1.1-0ubuntu4 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Packages
[10:43] <pitti> gnome-applets | 2.15.1.1-0ubuntu3 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Packages
[10:43] <pitti> seb128: ^ I think that's it
[10:43] <pitti> probably an FTBFS or stalled buildd
[10:44] <pitti> same for panel
[10:44] <ogra> seb128, manual upgrade of the evo bits fixed it here as well ...
[10:44] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/2.15.90-0ubuntu2
[10:44] <seb128> failed to build everywhere but on i386
[10:45] <seb128> pitti, ogra: what did you upgrade to fix it?
[10:45] <ogra> seb128,  sudo apt-get install evolution evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common
[10:45] <pitti> seb128: libebook1.2-9 libedata-cal1.2-5 libegroupwise1.2-12 evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common libedata-book1.2-2
[10:45] <seb128> for libs which broke the ABI the soname changed, so there should be no issue
[10:45] <seb128> ah
[10:45] <ogra> that pulled in the rest
[10:45] <seb128> you got evolution updated without evolution-data-server?
[10:46] <pitti> I don't know, I usually do not pay attention
[10:46] <seb128> do you have a bt of the crash before updating?
[10:46] <pitti> unfortunately not :(
[10:46] <ogra> nope :/
[10:46] <pitti> bug-buddy intercepted the crash before apport
[10:46] <ogra> same here 
[10:47] <pitti> seb128: ok, the ftbfs looks like a give-back issue
[10:47] <ogra> but i didnt save the bug buddy output with i usually do at least ...
[10:47] <seb128> pitti: bug-buddy gives bt too
[10:47] <dholbach> hey mvo
[10:47] <pitti> hey mvo
[10:47] <seb128> hey mvo
[10:47] <dholbach> mvo: ALTER! :)
[10:47] <seb128> mvo: ALTER! :)
[10:47] <dholbach> :-)))))))
[10:47] <ogra> heh
[10:47] <seb128> mvo: and me?!
[10:47] <mvo> ALTER!
[10:48] <pitti> seb128: ALTER *hug*
[10:48] <dholbach> hahahaha :)
[10:48] <seb128> hehe
[10:48] <seb128> pitti: speaking about bug-buddy and automatic debug, I wanted to have a discussion with you of what to do, especially if they conflict 
[10:49] <pitti> seb128: you mean 'conflict' in the sense of which one we want by default?
[10:49] <seb128> pitti: in sense "should be drop the libgnomeui crash handler so bug-buddy never opens when something crash"
[10:49] <pitti> if an app intercepts crashes on its own (like gnome and OO.o), apport will not get active
[10:50] <pitti> seb128: I'm not entirely sure TBH; right now, b-buddy sends to upstream, right?
[10:50] <seb128> pitti: will apport automatically get a debug bt?
[10:50] <pitti> so if we switch, we would get more bugs and upstream would get less
[10:50] <seb128> pitti: right, but we usually encourage people to file bugs on launchpad not upstream
[10:50] <pitti> seb128: yes, that's one of the biggest reason why we have it in the first place
[10:51] <seb128> pitti: and to be honest, non-debug bt are mostly noise upstream
[10:51] <pitti> seb128: and it also collects information about dependency packages and their versions and such
[10:51] <pitti> seb128: right, and in the future we will be able to generate good backtraces on LP with our ddebs
[10:51] <pitti> seb128: so, as long as we can handle the additional bug load, it would make sense
[10:52] <seb128> pitti: rock ... is there anywhere I can play with apport atm? fo you have some bzr for it?
[10:52] <pitti> seb128: however, the current apport package in edgy doesn't generate backtraces due to a design problem in the kernel crashdump helper; I'll sort that out with Ben next week
[10:52] <seb128> pitti: do you think we will get automatic debug-bt this cycle?
[10:52] <pitti> seb128: the source is in edgy (binaries in NEW)
[10:52] <seb128> ok, cool, I'll play with that later
[10:52] <pitti> seb128: and there is a bzr branch, see BzrMaintainedPakcages
[10:53] <pitti> seb128: ddeb generation is now blocked on soyuz, I completed my part; it might not make edgy
[10:53] <pitti> seb128: however, I want to talk to infinity about installing it on the buildds to sort out the remaining FTBFSes it causes
[10:53] <seb128> pitti: how will be made the debug bt?
[10:53] <pitti> seb128: maybe we can cowboy the ddebs from the buildds to people.u.c. or so :)
[10:54] <seb128> from what I understood at the bof it's possible to create a debug bt from the non-debug one with informations on the source and the binary used, right? 
[10:54] <seb128> is that going to be made server side?
[10:54] <pitti> seb128: we take the numeric bt from the user report, then use gdb on the LP server to combine the core dump and the debug symbols to produce a rich bt
[10:54] <pitti> seb128: yep, I hope we can get this working in the DC
[10:55] <pitti> seb128: if not, there's still the possibility of generating it on our home computers
[10:55] <seb128> do you have some notes or code on that?
[10:55] <seb128> I'm just curious about it
[10:55] <pitti> as long as the user sends us the core file, we won
[10:55] <seb128> I used to think you need a coredump or debug symbols on the client to get a debug byt
[10:55] <seb128> bt
[10:55] <pitti> seb128: I can show you the process, it's fairly easy
[10:55] <pitti> seb128: yep, we need the core
[10:55] <seb128> hum
[10:55] <pitti> seb128: and apport adds it to the report as long as it's not too big
[10:55] <seb128> but isn't the coredump something big to send?
[10:56] <pitti> seb128: (1) I bzip2 it, which helps *a lot* (ratios of 1:100 sometimes)
[10:56] <pitti> seb128: (2) I'm working on ways to make it significantly smaller
[10:56] <seb128> pitti: yeah, I'm interested to know about it, but not hurry, when you will not be over-busy is fine :)
[10:56] <pitti> seb128: in one case I was able to shrink it from 1.5 MB to 40 kB without significant loss for our purposes
[10:57] <pitti> but I didn't find a general way of doing this so far
[10:57] <seb128> cool
[10:57] <pitti> but that's future work
[10:57] <seb128> but didn't sfllaw and lifeless said at the bof it was possible to get a debug bt without sending a core if you have the non-debug one and enough informations on the binary and the sources for that binary?
[10:57] <pitti> seb128: in fact we could deal with just saving the stack frame (the top 256 kB are almost always enough), but then we lose the ability of using gdb to do the grunt work for us
[10:58] <pitti> seb128: yes, that's what I mean with above
[10:58] <seb128> hum, k
[10:58] <pitti> seb128: theoretically, the non-debug bt or the stack frame have all information we need
[10:59] <pitti> seb128: the problem is just that it takes some fiddling to pry out a debug stack trace out of it, and there is no tool ATM which does that
[10:59] <seb128> as far as we get a debug bt and users don't have to send several MB every time they get a crash, that's fine
[10:59] <pitti> seb128: my current plan is to just send compressed cores up to a size limit and let the user decide about whether he wants to send it
[10:59] <pitti> seb128: then I can optimize for size later
[10:59] <seb128> looks fine to me
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: but that would at least mean that we have a working process RSN
[11:00] <seb128> right
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: in fact, after yesterday's work rave, the GUI and the backend now work pretty well
[11:00] <pitti> with update-notifier integration and all that
[11:00] <seb128> we "just" need the server part now then? :)
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: yep, for convenience
[11:01] <pitti> seb128: however, we can always do the process manually on ronne or our home computers or so
[11:01] <seb128> right
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: so, ping me when you want me to show the stuff to you
[11:02] <seb128> pitti: ping :)
[11:02] <seb128> as said no hurry, whenever suits you the best
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: ok, in 20 minutes?
[11:03] <seb128> works for me!
[11:03] <seb128> thank you :)
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: please apt-get source apport in the meantime and build/install the debs
[11:03] <seb128> yeah, I was going to do that :)
[11:05] <pitti> seb128: when Keybuk turns up today, I'll ask him to NEW the package
[11:05] <seb128> k
[11:05] <seb128> weird
[11:05] <seb128> I got an "reboot required" icon with "crash detected" tooltip
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: yes, the icon is not quite the final one :)
[11:06] <seb128> and clicking on it open the "restart required" dialog
[11:06] <Treenaks> pitti: make it a bomb ;)
[11:06] <pitti> it's the reboot icon with some black shading
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: hm, when I hover on it, I get "Crashreport detected"
[11:06] <seb128> yep
[11:06] <seb128> and when I left click I get the restart dialog
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: you won't get the icon if you do not have reports in /var/crash, of course
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: hm, funny bug
[11:07] <seb128> $ ls /var/crash
[11:07] <seb128> _usr_bin_xprop.1000.crash
[11:07] <seb128> _usr_lib_notification-daemon_notification-daemon.1000.crash
[11:07] <pitti> ah, cool
[11:07] <pitti> seb128: do you have the lastest version of u-n installed? mvo fixed it yesterday
[11:07] <seb128> no
[11:07] <mvo> seb128: do it then!
[11:07] <mvo> :P
[11:07] <seb128> dholbach told me xorg was b0rked
[11:07] <seb128> so I didn't upgrade yet
[11:08] <mvo> just install the new update-notifier
[11:08] <seb128> I'll install u-n
[11:08] <pitti> seb128: xorg + nvidia driver = b0rk
[11:08] <seb128> mvo: yeah, was going to do that :)
[11:08] <seb128> pitti: I'm using ati
[11:08] <mvo> dholbach: btw, gnome-control-center is still uninstallable for me on amd64 
[11:08] <seb128> mvo: what is the issue?
[11:08] <pitti> seb128: oh, if I'm showing you the debug stuff, maybe I can ask a little favor in return: please complain about all HIG violations in apport-gtk :)
[11:09] <pitti> moin rodarvus 
[11:09] <dholbach> mvo: hm
[11:09] <seb128> pitti: yeah, sure, I might send patch for it :)
[11:09] <mvo> seb128: it complains that it can't install the correct version of capplets-data
[11:09] <seb128> mvo: arch any,all diff
[11:09] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/control-center/1:2.15.90-0ubuntu1
[11:09] <pitti> seb128: btw, I had much fun with glade and pygtk yesterday; that stuff really rocks :)
[11:09] <seb128> mvo: needs a retry on !i386
[11:09] <seb128> mvo: same for gnome-applets too
[11:09] <pitti> seb128: I just lack UI design experience, but I'll ask mpt, too
[11:09] <mvo> seb128: well, we have it since yesterday morning - I will ask infinity
[11:10] <seb128> mvo: have what?
[11:10] <seb128> mvo: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3561491/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-amd64.control-center_1%3A2.15.90-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:10] <mvo> seb128: the uninstallable capplets-data
[11:10] <seb128> mvo: did you read what I wrote?
[11:10] <seb128> mvo: it didn't build on !i386
[11:10] <mvo> seb128: yes, I have read it
[11:10] <seb128> mvo: needs a retry ... nothing that dholbach or I can fix
[11:10] <seb128> out of doing a fake upload to trigger a rebuild
[11:11] <dholbach> seb128: mvo always tends to blame me
[11:11] <seb128> which should not be required :)
[11:11] <seb128> dholbach: he's right, usually when things are broken that's due to you :p
[11:11] <infinity> seb128: Retrying.
[11:11] <mvo> I was not blaming anyone, I just want my gnome back :)
[11:11] <seb128> infinity: thank you
[11:11] <seb128> mvo: how did he go away? :p
[11:12] <seb128> mvo: don't say Yes to dist-upgrade before reading what he wants to remove :p
[11:12] <infinity> mvo: Has anyone whined to you yet about gksu suddenly offering to save passwords?
[11:12] <mvo> seb128: no, I did some cleanup on my system and it ... went away
[11:12] <mvo> seb128: and you don't want me to switch to kde, do you?
[11:12] <seb128> mvo: I see :)
[11:12] <infinity> mvo: This seems completely counter to the argument that "sudo is there as a warning that you're doing stuff as root", since by default, it offers to save your password for the whole session now...
[11:12] <mvo> infinity: no, you haven't. I noticed that too, the dialog looks a bit ...
[11:12] <seb128> mvo: really not, thanks to infinity your GNOME is going to be fixed rsn :)
[11:12] <infinity> mvo: And worse, it allows you to save your password in the gnome-keyring, so you ever ever get a root prompt again.
[11:13] <infinity> s/ever ever/never ever/
[11:13] <seb128> infinity: that's handy :)
[11:13] <infinity> mvo: I'm pretty sure that's an upstream change we want to revert or patch out.
[11:13] <ogra> heh
[11:13] <infinity> seb128: *smack*
[11:13] <ogra> mvo, and call ourselves linspire ?
[11:13] <mvo> infinity: it seems to be a new gksu2 feature
[11:13] <mvo> lubuntu !
[11:13] <ogra> heh
[11:13] <mvo> the luser ubuntu :P
[11:14] <dholbach> dubuntu.com :)
[11:14] <infinity> mvo: libgsku, even, I think.  But yeah, it's just plain wrong, IMO.
[11:14] <mvo> dholbach: HAHA
[11:14] <imbrandon> winbuntu ?
[11:14] <simira> :)
[11:14] <mvo> infinity: I take a look
[11:14] <infinity> mvo: My other bitch (and no, I haven't filed a bug, I'm a bad man) is that apt-listchanges has completely stopped doing anything useful for me in edgy.
[11:15] <infinity> mvo: It seems to parse the changelogs, then just plow straight on without displaying them.
[11:15] <mvo> infinity: *hrm* thanks, let me see if I can reproduce it (I'm sure I can :)
[11:15] <pitti> mvo: maybe /usr/share/icons/gnome/16x16/stock/generic/stock_test-mode.png isn't too bad as an initial icon for a crash report; it looks a bit like the crash test dummy markers :)
[11:16] <infinity> mvo: Broken in both X (update-notified) and CLI (apt-get).  Has been for weeks, I've just been too lazy to complain.
[11:16] <infinity> s/notified/notifier/
[11:16] <hungerW> infinity: Works for me(TM)
[11:17] <ogra> pitti, thats a cool one, take that ! :)
[11:17] <hungerW> infinity: It was broken for a couple of days here, too, but it works again for a while now.
[11:17] <mvo> pitti: yeah!
[11:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54329 in Ubuntu "Error when Applications menu item isn't found is highly offensive" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54329
[11:18] <pitti> why, does it say 'you suck, you L0SER!!!11!!one!' ??
[11:19] <ogra> no it says it cant "execute the child"
[11:19] <pitti> oops :)
[11:19] <ogra> ..."What you should see: Something that doesn't mention killing children."...
[11:20] <imbrandon> lol
[11:20] <simira> I really agree
[11:20] <pitti> that reminds me of some kernel (?) message I saw a while ago about not being able to rape a child
[11:20] <ogra> heh
[11:20] <ogra> luckily normal users seldom see kernel messages
[11:20] <seb128> bah, users, sometime...
[11:21] <ogra> seb128, why do you look at me if you say that ? :)
[11:21] <seb128> ogra: I don't :p
[11:21] <ogra> :)
[11:21] <ogra> sorry for earlier, really ...
[11:22] <seb128> dholbach: better you close that one, I didn't get enough sleep to reply to it correctly ;)
[11:22] <dholbach> seb128: which one?
[11:22] <infinity> seb128: You lose.  gnome-applets is still FTBFS.
[11:22] <dholbach> seb128: ah mpt's bug
[11:22] <infinity> seb128: Same for control-center, it looks like.
[11:22] <seb128> dholbach: ah, it's from mpt, why am I surprised
[11:23] <imbrandon> yea control-senter is ftbs too
[11:23] <seb128> infinity: still libgnomeui-dev not installable?
[11:23] <seb128> imbrandon: how do you know?
[11:23] <infinity> seb128: No, dies in the compile.  Broken headers or some such.  Didn't look that hard.
[11:23] <infinity> http://librarian.launchpad.net/3601225/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-powerpc.control-center_1%3A2.15.90-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:23] <imbrandon> seb128: its uninstallable here () ppc ) so i tried to build it
[11:24] <seb128> infinity: ok, that's e-d-s API change, I'll fix it ... :)
[11:24] <infinity> seb128: gnome-applets dies due to python-gnome2-desktop-dev being uninstallable.  That's likely easier to fix.
[11:24] <seb128> infinity: control-center is easy to fix, that's a few lines patch, going to do that in a min
[11:25] <imbrandon> yay
[11:25] <infinity> seb128: Okay, I'm tracking the other thing.
[11:25] <seb128> infinity: thank you
[11:28] <infinity> seb128: Okay, the gnome-applets thing seems to be due to gnome-python-desktop having not been built on amd64/powerpc, due to other issues.  It's building now.  Should all sort out in a couple of publisher runs.
[11:28] <seb128> infinity: cool, thank you
[11:33] <doko> infinity, Kamion: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+queue doesn't show the OOo uploads, but https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper-proposed/+queue doesn't exist.
[11:59] <pitti> seb128: ah, ctrl+shift+numbers to enter unicode has been replaced by ctrl+shift+u and then the numbers without modifier keys
[11:59] <seb128> pitti: ah, good to know. How did you figure?
[12:00] <dholbach> hahaha
[12:00] <infinity> doko: That's cause that page doesn't show unapproved, I suppose.
[12:00] <pitti> seb128: I had a faint memory about reading about this in some changelog on edgy-changes
[12:00] <infinity> doko: Let me poke at it.
[12:00] <seb128> "
[12:00] <seb128> * gtk/gtkimcontextsimple.c: Rework the Unicode hex input
[12:00] <seb128>         code. Now we only steal a single key combination, Ctrl-Shift-U,
[12:00] <seb128>         instead of sixteen. 
[12:00] <seb128>         A hex Unicode sequence must be started with Ctrl-Shift-U, followed
[12:00] <seb128>         by a sequence of hex digits entered with Ctrl-Shift still held.
[12:00] <seb128>         Releasing one of the modifiers or pressing space while the modifiers
[12:00] <pitti> seb128: I still knew 'ctrl+shift+numbers blabla replaced with single combination blabla'
[12:00] <seb128>         are still held commits the character. It is possible to erase
[12:01] <seb128>         digits using backspace.
[12:01] <seb128> "
[12:01] <seb128> right
[12:01] <pitti> dholbach: I want a libweissbier1, too!
[12:01] <seb128> "As an extension to the above, we also allow to start the sequence
[12:01] <seb128>         with Ctrl-Shift-U, then release the modifiers before typing any
[12:01] <seb128>         digits, and enter the digits without modifier"
[12:01] <thom> aaargh. g-p-m seems to have decided to notify me that my batter is charged every 30 seconds or so
[12:01] <dholbach> pitti, seb128: nice :)
[12:02] <infinity> doko: Err, wait.  What are you looking for, exactly?
[12:02] <infinity> doko: I see no new OOo for dapper anywhere.
[12:03] <doko> infinity: dapper-proposed
[12:05] <infinity> doko: Version?
[12:05] <infinity> doko: I see nothing newer than openoffice.org_2.0.3-3dapper3_source.changes
[12:05] <doko> oops, updated the wrong chroot ... and then tried to install in another one
[12:07] <ogra> seb128, i just upgraded my whole system, now the panel logout button stopped working ...
[12:07] <thom> ogra! this could get /really/ annoying, fast. bug 40040 is back in edgy for me
[12:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40040 in gnome-power "Power manager Applet show 100% charged each some secs." [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40040
[12:08] <ogra> thom, i'll look how that was fixed last time
[12:08] <thom> ogra: last time was an upstream patch
[12:08] <thom> i wonder if the rewrite of halmonitor mentioned in the changelog has lost the fix
[12:08] <thom> (no familiarity with the code)
[12:09] <ogra> the core code was rewritten completely in the last update before the gnome API/ABI freeze ...
[12:09] <ogra> so its likely that this one was lost upstream (as many other functionallity :/)
[12:09] <thom> oh lovely
[12:09] <ogra> yep
[12:10] <thom> oh well. if i had any clue how to reopen that bug for edgy i would, but i'll leave it for yiu
[12:11] <ogra> i'll ask upstream ...
[12:12] <ogra> seb128, did evo change the font for html mails or something ? html looks very blurry with the recent one 
[12:12] <seb128> ogra: weird for the panel logout, we sometime have bugs about such issue but that's not easy to debug
[12:13] <seb128> ogra: I had some font issues with it but restarting evo made the trick for me
[12:13] <ogra> the menu item doesnt react either
[12:14] <ogra> hmm, actually *no* menu item at all 
[12:14] <ogra> neither any of my launchers work ...
[12:14] <seb128> ogra: restart the panel? :)
[12:15] <ogra> oh
[12:15] <ogra> a killall doesnt respawn it
[12:18] <ogra> seb128, a new login solved it
[12:18] <seb128> ok
[12:18] <seb128> it usually does :)
[12:20] <ogra> infinity, looks like l-r-m could need a rebuild against the new xorg for fglrx ...
[12:21] <Seveas> dos fglrx support xorg 7.1?
[12:21] <Seveas> does*
[12:21] <ogra> no idea
[12:21] <ogra> al least the current binary doesnt :)
[12:23] <infinity> Rebuilding won't fix that.
[12:24] <ogra> ok
[12:24] <infinity> I'll look at it on the weekend though, I suspect.
[12:24] <ogra> one has hopes, you know :)
[12:30] <pitti> doko: what are we supposed to do if our SoC student is MIA and AWOL?
[12:31] <pitti> doko: report that to google immediately, or just fail him in the final report?
[12:31] <doko> pitti: but he was reacting for the midterm survey?
[12:31] <pitti> mvo: ^ (G0SUB didn't do *anything* visible in the last weeks, didn't commit anything to bzr, and doesn't mail)
[12:32] <pitti> doko: yes, he was; since then he didn't do anything any more
[12:32] <pitti> doko: at that time he had some trouble with the Indian monsoon, but we agreed to pass mid-term since he promised to catch up and had some uncommitted work
[12:33] <pitti> but I'm losing my patience now
[12:33] <ajmitch> reminds me that I should push today's stuff to launchpad..
[12:33] <doko> pitti: I'll email him
[12:34] <pitti> doko: 'him' being G0SUB or the Google contact?
[12:35] <doko> pitti: GOSUB first
[12:35] <pitti> doko: ok, can't hurt to ping him again (I did two days ago)
[12:41] <pitti> ogra_: pessulus> is debian bug 377822 solved for us?
[12:41] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 377822 in pessulus "Subject: Uninstallable due to python transition" [Serious,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/377822
[12:43] <rodarvus> good morning
[12:44] <rodarvus> hi pitti!
[12:44] <rodarvus> pitti, earlier today it was not me :)
[12:44] <rodarvus> just my dsl resetting :/
[12:44] <ogra_> pitti, afaik yes
[12:44] <ajmitch> morning rodarvus 
[12:44] <pitti> rodarvus: ah, it was the dreaded rodarvusbot, wasn't it? :)
[12:44] <rodarvus> hi ajmitch!
[12:45] <ogra_> pitti, erm ... we already ship 2.15.90-0ubuntu1
[12:45] <rodarvus> pitti, yeah, a python bot configured to 'pass' all input hooks :P
[12:46] <zul> morning rodarvus 
[12:46] <ogra_> pitti, and 0.9.1 was shipped in dapper, so it doesnt affect us at all :)
[12:46] <pitti> ogra_: good
[12:48] <rodarvus> hey zul :)
[12:55] <hungerW> Hmmm... strigi looks really nice.
[12:58] <slomo_> ogra_: any news on the gnome menu bug? the one which makes the menu pop up and close forever
[12:58] <ogra_> nope
[12:58] <ogra_> seb128 is aware of it ... but thats all 
[12:58] <slomo_> is there a bugreport for this somewhere?
[12:58] <ajmitch> probably one & several duplicates
[12:59] <ogra_> you can produce a BT with:
[12:59] <ogra_> gnome-session-remove gnome-panel
[12:59] <ogra_> GNOME_PANEL_DEBUG=1 BONOBO_ACTIVATION_DEBUG_OUTPUT=1 gnome-panel
[12:59] <ogra_> but that gets very huge
[12:59] <ogra_> MENU_VERBOSE=1 might help as well
[01:00] <ajmitch> slomo_: bug 52405
[01:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52405 in gnome-panel "gnome-panel eats 50% cpu for half an hour and flickers" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52405
[01:00] <slomo_> ajmitch: thanks :)
[01:00] <ajmitch> only 6 duplicates, I'm surprised :)
[01:02] <ogra_> and its even the return of an older dapper or breezy bug
[01:03] <ogra_> i remember we had probs before with that broken symlink
[01:07] <sladen> ajmitch: sounds familar, I did some tracing of that for upstream
[01:07] <slomo_> ogra: there's a fix for it in the bugreport
[01:08] <slomo_> ogra: removing /etc/xdg/menus/debian-menu.menu
[01:08] <slomo_> well... workaround :)
[01:08] <ajmitch> slomo_: which is fine, but I don't have that symlink :)
[01:08] <ajmitch> ah no, I actually do
[01:08] <ajmitch> was just looking in the wrong dir
[01:09] <slomo_> so where does this come from? i don't have that file ;)
[01:09] <ogra> xdg
[01:09] <sladen> ajmitch: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=323064 , https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gamin/+bug/5176 , http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=338438
[01:09] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 323064 in general "the panel applications menu is displayed empty with gamin 0.1.7/inotify" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[01:09] <slomo_> ogra: i mean... which package put it there ;)
[01:10] <pitti> ogra: hm, pessulus reminds me of a similar application we once had (if I would only remember its name)
[01:10] <ogra> menu-xdg
[01:10] <pitti> ogra: the thing that used xnest and displayed a desktop which you could reconfigure
[01:10] <ajmitch> sabayon
[01:10] <pitti> right, thanks ajmitch 
[01:10] <ogra> pitti, sabayon :) thats next on the list for MIR ;)
[01:10] <pitti> ogra: hm? it's in main for ages
[01:11] <ogra> we want both in edubuntu
[01:11] <ogra> oh, ok
[01:11] <ajmitch> I'm sure there was something I had to do to it..
[01:11] <pitti> ogra: we do need both?
[01:11] <ogra> they do different things
[01:11] <ogra> i need pessulus for student-control-panel ...
[01:11] <pitti> oh, I see
[01:11] <ajmitch> ah, dholbach updated it
[01:11] <ogra> as add on
[01:12] <ogra> pitti, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelCompletion see "lockdown n the fly"
[01:12] <ajmitch> ogra: all this config is just local gconf, right?
[01:13] <ogra> ajmitch, yep
[01:13] <ajmitch> maybe something for edgy+1 is gconf using ldap backend :)
[01:13] <ajmitch> especially for the fat client spec
[01:14] <ogra> sounds intresting :)
[01:14] <ajmitch> there used to be a backend, not sure if its been actively developed 
[01:15] <ogra> we'll revisit the fat client spec next conf anyway
[01:15] <ajmitch> yep
[01:16] <ajmitch> was just a thought, been spending too much time around ldap lately :)
[01:17] <pitti> Riddell: knet> yet another KDE dial application?
[01:18] <Riddell> pitti: for DSL users
[01:18] <ogra> one app for every modem brand :)
[01:19] <pitti> oh, kppp doesn't supprort dsl? I see
[01:22] <pitti> ogra: pessulus approved
[01:22] <pitti> Riddell: knet approved
[01:23] <ogra> thanks mr. "fastest security fixer in the world" :)
[01:24] <pitti> :)
[01:25] <Riddell> pitti: thanks
[01:25] <pitti> Riddell: jasper has been in main for ages
[01:26] <pitti> Riddell: but it's the same version in hoary as in edgy, thus it seems kind of unmaintained?
[01:26] <ajmitch> ogra: ah, ldap backend is only partial
[01:27] <freeflying> can knot1 be installed on amd64 turion 64x2 notbook?  I've failed to install it using today's install cd
[01:27] <pitti> slomo_: can you please use the standard template for gsf-sharp and do some more QA research?
[01:28] <ogra> freeflying, 
[01:28] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep "model name"
[01:28] <ogra> model name      : AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-30
[01:28] <ogra> i have to use nolapc as bootoption though
[01:28] <ogra> *nolapic
[01:29] <freeflying> ogra: I used too, also with pnpbios=off
[01:31] <ajmitch> only 5 RC bugs for the version in debian that I wanted to upgrade to
[01:32] <slomo_> pitti: i can use the template, sure... the current one is only a copy of another MIR with changed text...  but for QA, there's only a SVN and nothing else but everybody uses it for beagle *shrug*
[01:32] <gnomefreak> was the vesa driver build yet?
[01:32] <slomo_> pitti: and a debian ITP exists ;)
[01:32] <pitti> slomo_: ok, well, as long as you verified that it is free of showstopper bugs in Debian and upstream, that's fine
[01:33] <pitti> slomo_: just a reminder for later to use the current template, it is much better
[01:33] <ajmitch> slomo_: you haven't got that into debian? :)
[01:33] <pitti> slomo_: did you get your @debian account yet?
[01:34] <slomo_> ajmitch: beowulf filed an ITP 12 days ago... and i don't really care about beagle etc so i don't want to maintain it in debian ;)
[01:34] <slomo_> pitti: not yet... should take ~100 days ;)
[01:34] <ajmitch> slomo_: fair enough
[01:34] <rodarvus> 100 days?
[01:34] <pitti> slomo_: hm, took ~ 30 for me...
[01:34] <ajmitch> rodarvus: depends on the amount of the bribe
[01:35] <rodarvus> yeah, but 100 days seems like a lot of slack on my humble opinion :)
[01:35] <pitti> ajmitch: yeah, the 200 beer boxes and free entry to massage salons for a year hurt my purse a lot :-P
[01:35] <ajmitch> siretart is also waiting, I think
[01:35] <slomo_> yes, siretart was already approved by the FD... i'm still waiting for that
[01:37] <pitti> Riddell: pcsc-lite sounds scary :/
[01:38] <pitti> Riddell: hm, gnupg2 does not depend on any openct or pcsc-lite library...
[01:39] <pitti> Riddell: pcsc-lite MIR: "* No binaries running as root or suid/sgid." -> AHEM
[01:46] <Mithrandir> oh, pcsc-lite going to main?  Nice.
[01:50] <pitti> Mithrandir: I didn't approve it
[01:50] <pitti> Mithrandir: if you want to be the maintainer, I'm fine with that, of course :)
[01:50] <slomo_> pitti: so you're fine with gsf-sharp? (regarding showstopper bugs... i never heard of someone having a bug at all with gsf-sharp ;) )
[01:51] <pitti> slomo_: ok, I'll review it based on the current report
[01:51] <Mithrandir> pitti: preferably not; I'm just using it to sign my uploads.
[01:51] <pitti> slomo_: I take your word that it's sane :)
[01:51] <Mithrandir> pitti: (that is, I don't want to be the maintainer)
[02:05] <siretart> ajmitch: I'm currently waiting for DAM, but there are quite some ppl before me in the DAM queue
[02:08] <_d4vid> hi all
[02:08] <_d4vid> need help with i810 drivers
[02:08] <_d4vid> i cant start opengl games.. 
[02:08] <ogra> _d4vid, see topic
[02:09] <ogra> please ask in #ubuntu
[02:09] <_d4vid> :(
[02:09] <_d4vid> ok
[02:09] <_d4vid> thnx
[02:26] <jono> hey all
[02:27] <jjesse> hello jono
[02:27] <jono> hey jjesse :)
[02:29] <Gman> hey paul's minion
[02:29] <jono> Gman, heh, less of that thanks :P
[02:38] <Seveas> hi jonokosher ;)
[02:42] <jono> heya Seveas :P
[03:23] <bddebian> Hello
[03:31] <doko> pitti: please join #debian-toolchain on a regular basis (more ssp fallout)
[03:41] <pitti> doko: #debian-toolchain is empty on both freenode and OFTC ??
[03:41] <rodarvus> pitti, #ubuntu-toolchain
[03:41] <doko> pitti, sorry ubuntu-toolchain :-/
[03:56] <cprov> infinity: ping
[04:11] <rodarvus> infinity, ping
[04:33] <infinity> cprov: It's midnight, but pong anyway.
[04:34] <bddebian> midnight?  Hell, that's early :)
[04:34] <cprov> infinity: it'll be quick, what's new in lp-buildd_32 ?
[04:35] <infinity> cprov: No idea, best to ask me when I can actually check...
[04:35] <infinity> cprov: Or, read the debian changelog...
[04:36] <cprov> infinity: okay ... point me to the source ;)
[04:37] <infinity> cprov: I'm pretty sure my branch on chinstrap (though way out of sync with yours by now) is still current comapred to what's running on the buildds, but I should probably double-check that at another time.
[04:37] <madduck> anyone know where Keybuk is?
[04:38] <infinity> cprov: But the changelog is here: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/foo.txt
[04:39] <cprov> infinity: fine
[04:39] <infinity> cprov: But yeah, bug me at a slightly better time, and I'll make sure I have something nicely merged for you to bring back into HEAD.
[04:41] <mdz> madduck: he's in the UK
[04:41] <madduck> mdz: just haven't seen him in a while. mdz, could you msg me his mobile number, please?
[04:42] <mdz> madduck: I don't generally give out that sort of information without permission
[04:42] <madduck> mh.\
[04:42] <rodarvus> infinity, we have some (actually, a lot) of new packages on X.Org, for Edgy - I'd like to add them to ubuntu-x-swat on LaunchPad
[04:42] <mdz> madduck: are you using a dvorak layout now?
[04:42] <cprov> infinity: okay, see you tomorrow
[04:42] <madduck> mdz: no, not yet. :/
[04:42] <rodarvus> infinity, may I send you an email with the list, or you prefer me to add them myself?
[04:42] <madduck> i didn't round up the patience yet.
[04:42] <infinity> rodarvus: Either way, doesn't matter much to me.
[04:43] <rodarvus> ok, I'll send you an email later today, then (I've just checked and I don't have powers on ubuntu-x-swat to do this myself :/)
[04:46] <rodarvus> infinity, ^^^
[04:47] <seb128> infinity: could you give a retry to gnome-panel on !i386?
[04:51] <infinity> seb128: Done.
[04:51] <seb128> infinity: thank you
[04:56] <bddebian> seb128: Would you prefer I not touch nautilus-open-terminal merge if I get to it?
[04:56] <seb128> bddebian: what do you mean?
[04:56] <bddebian> seb128: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe-manual.html
[04:57] <seb128> bddebian: I'll do it if you prefer, that's probably a quick one
[04:57] <seb128> bddebian: that's probably a simple sync request
[04:57] <bddebian> seb128: Most of them have just been different orig.tar.gz so I have just been fake syncing them
[04:58] <bddebian> seb128: I'm happy to do it but I don't want to touch anything I shouldn't
[04:58] <seb128> no reason to not touch it if you do it right :p
[05:02] <tritium> bddebian is loved by all
[05:03] <sivang> crimsun: do you know if sounds should be not working in current edgy?
[05:03] <sivang> crimsun: seems to not be working with skype
[05:05] <bddebian> tritium: Heya.  Hardly
[05:06] <tritium> bddebian: hello :)
[05:12] <Kaleo> Hello
[05:16] <bddebian> Hello Kaleo
[05:32] <G0SUB> pitti: please don't lose patience. I am not MIA :)
[05:33] <G0SUB> pitti: everything is going fine here. you will see the results by Monday, 00:00 UTC
[05:36] <pitti> G0SUB: oh, hi
[05:36] <G0SUB> pitti: hello.
[05:37] <G0SUB> pitti: i apologise for being AWOL, but i asked you for a week remember? I have been working all this while. it should be done by the end of this week (i work more on weekends since I have college everyday)
[05:37] <Ignite_> will there be a network install image for edgy?
[05:38] <pitti> G0SUB: hm, I might have mixed it up with this week's Monday
[05:38] <G0SUB> pitti: probably you did :) I am sorry in any case.
[05:43] <pygi> G0SUB, while on that point...the UI? :)
[05:53] <gnomefreak> was the vesa drivers released yet?
[06:22] <bddebian> Kamion: around?
[06:24] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[06:24] <bddebian> So how would I merge a debian version for an Ubuntu native package? (I.E. no orig.tar.gz in Ubuntu)?
[06:25] <LaserJock> bddebian: yucky. is the Debian version native?
[06:25] <LaserJock> bddebian: hi, btw
[06:25] <bddebian> LaserJock: No
[06:26] <LaserJock> bddebian: what package is this?
[06:26] <bddebian> nautilus-open-terminal
[06:26] <LaserJock> ah
[06:29] <LaserJock> bddebian: isn't that even a wrong versioning for a native package in Ubuntu?
[06:29] <bddebian> LaserJock: I think so but I'm not questioning seb128 ;-P
[06:29] <LaserJock> bddebian: seb128 uploaded it?
[06:30] <bddebian> yes
[06:30] <LaserJock> hmm, well I think I would see if we could sync from Debian, but that's just my opinion
[06:30] <bddebian> That's what I'm looking at but I assume the upload may fail
[06:31] <LaserJock> ah, hmm
[06:31] <LaserJock> I guess you could talk to seb128 about it then
[06:31] <bddebian> But maybe it won't because there is no orig.tar.gz?
[06:31] <Zdra> is it planned to switch to dbus 0.70 anytime soon ?
[06:43] <infinity> bddebian: Untar the Debian orig and the Ubuntu native tar.gz, diff -urN, make sure that we've not patched anything outside of debian/* (if we have, create patches), then merge with the Debian version and upload non-native (ie: with the Debian orig)
[06:44] <infinity> bddebian: Switching from native to non-native is perfectly legal, and the right thing to do in this case (it should be done anyway, even if we weren't merging)
[06:44] <bddebian> infinity: OK, thanks
[06:46] <infinity> bddebian: If you're pretty sure we don't actually want to merge (ie: our packaging or changes are irrelevant), just request a sync, as usual.  It'll work fine.
[06:46] <bddebian> infinity: Ah, cool
[06:47] <pitti> infinity: any chance you could free apport from the NEW queue?
[06:48] <slomo_> Zdra: i don't think it is planned to switch to dbus 0.91/dbus-glib 0.71 for edgy... it would cause too much breakage at this point.
[06:48] <infinity> pitti: main or universe?
[06:49] <infinity> pitti: Ahh, source is in universe, looks like, so that's where I'll toss the binaries.
[06:49] <bddebian> Ack, our tar.gz has a debian dir
[06:50] <infinity> bddebian: Of course it does, it's debian-native.
[06:50] <pitti> infinity: that's fine for now, we can promote it later
[06:50] <bddebian> Oh, yeah, duh
[06:50] <pitti> infinity: thank you!
[06:50] <Zdra> slomo_: ok, I asked that because I got a dbus crash in a app I'm coding and upstream think it got fixed in 0.70
[06:50] <bddebian> Seems to be the only diff
[06:50] <slomo_> Zdra: problem is that the dbus-glib 0.70 has many large, incompatible changes from what i know. what exactly is the crash you get?
[06:51] <Zdra> slomo_: connect to the bus, disconnect and reconnect again cause dbus to crash
[06:52] <infinity> pitti: Done.
[06:52] <slomo_> Zdra: uh... could you paste a small testcase for this somewhere?
[06:52] <slomo_> good night, infinity :)
[06:52] <bddebian> Gnight infinity, thanks again
[06:53] <Zdra> slomo_: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dbus/2006-July/005276.html
[06:54] <slomo_> Zdra: could you please file a bug in launchpad for this and assign it to me? i'll look into it
[06:55] <Zdra> slomo_: ok, but I think none applications does that, I found that bug for a little code I'm writing for myself
[06:56] <slomo_> Zdra: it really surprises me that this never happened it any application ;)
[06:58] <Zdra> slomo_: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/54375
[06:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54375 in dbus "DBus crash when connecting to the bus, disconnect and reconnect again" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[06:59] <slomo_> Zdra: thanks
[07:00] <LaserJock> elmo, Znarl, Spads: thanks guys. Happy SysAdmin appreciation Day!
[07:05] <sivang> bah, the zeroconf thread contonues to fill up -devel
[07:08] <robertj_> sivang: I wish I could find the origonal email I sent that ended with "Please discuss" so I could reply back with "Please close discussion."
[07:10] <sivang> robertj_: heh
[07:17] <madduck> is soyuz open source?
[07:17] <tseng> no.
[07:17] <madduck> thx
[07:21] <sivang> robertj_: should prboably a feature of mailman :)
[07:23] <robertj_> sivang: my other beef is I cant figure out how to do a digest subscription & reply back to a specific message without messing up threading
[07:23] <robertj_> I assume there is some mail header introduced for threading purposes
[07:39] <crimsun> sivang: they should work fine; are you using the latest skype beta w/ alsa support?
[07:40] <sivang> crimsun: nope
[07:40] <sivang> crimsun: using and older one
[07:41] <sivang> I should upgrade then
[07:41] <sivang> crimsun: but also desktop sounds stopped working suddenly
[07:41] <sivang> (I think after today's upgrade)
[07:42] <crimsun> sivang: as in Sound Events and/or playing your own music?
[07:42] <crimsun> (I don't have an Edgy GNOME desktop atm, will have to check tomorrow)
[07:43] <sivang> crimsun: I can play MP3's using mplayer, but all other progs are stuck
[07:43] <jono> hey
[07:44] <sivang> crimsun: desktop sounds, as in notification, gaime sounds etc are not working
[07:46] <crimsun> sivang: right, perhaps someone else can confirm (I don't have said configuration atm), isn't a core alsa issue.
[07:46] <sivang> crimsun: kay, I'll invesitage furhter
[07:46] <sivang> crimsun: I hope it''s no ESD going AWOL as i did in dapper
[07:53] <LaserJock> jono: we know you are good, you don't have to tell us ;-)
[07:53] <jono> LaserJock, hehe
[07:54] <jono> I can see how that may have been read thr wrong way :P
[07:57] <tseng> jono: imagine how hot you'd be with a beard
[07:58] <tseng> (is it gone yet?)
[07:58] <LaserJock> hehe
[08:00] <jono> tseng, yep its gone :P
[08:01] <tseng> jono: you'll be happy to know that I have been using "bocktoverfest" pretty liberally
[08:01] <tseng> much to aaron's chagrin
[08:01] <jono> tseng, hehe
[08:01] <jono> excellent :)
[08:11] <dholbach> have a nice weekend everybody!
[08:12] <jono> bye dholbach 
[08:13] <highvoltage> bye dholbach! you too!
[08:13] <sivang> later dh	
[08:14] <sivang> later dholbach 
[08:14] <dholbach> if somebody wants to make jono happy, they could try to get jokosher out of binary new (or wherever it's hanging now) :)
[08:14] <jono> :)
[08:16] <zul> what is jokosher?
[08:16] <jjesse> its a music program i think
[08:16] <dholbach> http://jokosher.org
[08:16] <dholbach> it ROCKS
[08:27] <jono> right I am off
[08:27] <jono> later all, have a nice weekend :)
[08:36] <robertj> it would almost be worth switching off of digest just so I can killfile this fellow
[08:47] <bSON> hi
[08:47] <bSON> is the x.org in edgy a 7.1 build?
[08:48] <crimsun> it's newer than 7.1.
[08:49] <bSON> oh, ok
[08:49] <Zdra> there is still packages missing as I see
[08:49] <slomo_> Zdra: which ones?
[08:50] <rodarvus> there are about 10 multiplatform video drivers missing
[08:50] <rodarvus> and 6 sparc-only video drivers missing
[08:50] <Zdra> "xorg" for example is still in version 7.0.22
[08:50] <rodarvus> all of these are being uploaded today
[08:50] <rodarvus> Zdra, have you seen whats inside pacakge 'xorg'? :)
[08:51] <Zdra> but I guess it's a meta-packages that just need a version bump...
[08:51] <rodarvus> its not a meta-package
[08:51] <rodarvus> and won't be bumped
[08:51] <rodarvus> (we "share" this package with debian)
[08:51] <rodarvus> no reason to gratuituously bump its version.
[08:52] <Zdra> if you say so...
[08:54] <crimsun> rodarvus: thanks for all your work pushing 7.1+ in, btw.
[09:00] <rodarvus> crimsun, my pleasure :)
[09:02] <gnomefreak> rodarvus: xorg is done atm?
[09:04] <rodarvus> gnomefreak, the package 'xorg' itself is done
[09:04] <rodarvus> there are a few video drivers still needing updating
[09:04] <rodarvus> and of course, bugfixing will come, during the next few weeks
[09:10] <gnomefreak> ok cool
[09:11] <^ohoel> is there a spec on proprietary graphics driver support ala novell/redhat?
[09:12] <rodarvus> ^ohoel, what proprietary graphics driver support you mean?
[09:12] <rodarvus> (just curious)
[09:13] <^ohoel> rodarvus: they're listed as supported platforms by ati/nvidia(?), and installing+enabling the driver is a one-click operation (plus accepting the license)
[09:13] <rodarvus> ^ohoel, we already have ati/nvidia binary drivers officially packaged on ubuntu.
[09:14] <rodarvus> they're even installed by default, I think.
[09:14] <^ohoel> rodarvus: yes, it seems novell uses a repository located on ati servers for driver updates though
[09:15] <rodarvus> gnomefreak, vesa is done.
[09:15] <gnomefreak> ty
[09:23] <^ohoel> nice, ati released xorg 7.1 drivers
[09:27] <Fjodor> Sorry for asking, but is there a good reason for linux/autoconf.h to explicitly unset CONFIG_D80211 if not selected instead of not having anything about it? As it is now, and has been for a while, this prevents rt2x00 cvs drivers to build without tinkering
[09:28] <crimsun> Fjodor: it's modularised in Edgy
[09:29] <highvoltage> crimsun: do you think it's possible that I'm using the wrong driver? according to http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165, it should use snd-hda-intel
[09:29] <Fjodor> crimsun: Not sure I understand what you mean?
[09:29] <highvoltage> crimsun: oops /me > #alsa
[09:31] <crimsun> Fjodor: I don't see the 'D802' string in Dapper's configs
[09:31] <Fjodor> As far AFAICT, CONFIG_D80211 is selected by selecting your in-kernel rt2x00 drivers. When those are deselected, however, CONFIG_D80211 is actively unset instead of just not having a value
[09:31] <Fjodor> Sorry, talking edgy kernel
[09:32] <Fjodor> crimsun: ^
[09:32] <crimsun> Fjodor: it'd be best to ping BenC about it in -kernel, though he's away presently
[09:33] <Fjodor> crimsun: Ok. Thanks
[09:33] <crimsun> Fjodor: On the other hand, does the default Edgy value (modularised) pose a problem?
[09:33] <robertj> Dennis Kaarsemaker, whoever you are, you are my hero.
[09:33] <crimsun> robertj: Seveas.
[09:33] <slomo_> robertj: Seveas 
[09:33] <robertj> ahh
[09:34] <Seveas> robertj, ?
[09:35] <Fjodor> crimsun: Yes, the default appears to be a specific #unset. rt2x00_compat.h includes linux/config.h, however, thus getting that specific CONFIG_ unset and failing to compile
[09:36] <crimsun> Fjodor: let's migrate to -kernel
[09:36] <Fjodor> crimsun: Going there
[10:18] <ogra> mvo, is update-manager using gksu instead of gksudo known ?
[10:26] <mvo> ogra: since ages
[10:26] <mvo> ogra: use et a gconf key in gksu to always make it act like gksudo
[10:27] <ogra> ah, i see, sudo-mode 
[10:28] <ogra> ut the password prompt rather looks like its gksu atm
[10:40] <wasabi> python2.3 looks broken in some fashion. If I try to remove it I get pycentral rtremove: installed runtime python2.3 not found. Same thing when forcing it to reinstall.
[10:40] <ogra> python2.3 is obsolete
[10:40] <wasabi> Sure. But I can't remove it. ;0
[10:56] <wasabi> Heh. My Alsa seems to be morbidly broken. Looks like the configuration files for it disappeared at some point.