[12:13] <mdz> @schedule America/Los_Angeles
[12:13] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 27 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 13:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 13:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 05:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[12:39] <zul> hi
[12:51] <Kamion> evening
[12:51] <dholbach> hellas
[12:51] <Riddell> what did we decide about filling in wiki pages?
[12:52] <Kamion> I believe we'll do it during/after the meeting
[12:52] <Riddell> from lack of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DistroTeamMeeting20060727 I guess it's not happening before the meeting
[12:52] <Kamion> probably after so that people aren't off filling in wiki pages instead of paying attention :)
[12:52] <fabbione> i am here.. i just need to wash my face to wake up
[12:53] <Kamion> it's DevelTeamMeeting20060727. (gar)
[12:53] <Kamion> sfllaw: consistent naming would rock, thanks ;)
[12:53] <Riddell> oh, tsk
[12:54] <Riddell> I'll move that to DistroTeam to make it consistent
[12:54] <Kamion> ok, leave a redirect behind though since he announced it on ubuntu-devel-announce
[12:54] <sfllaw> I was asked to change it to DevelTeam.
[12:55] <Kamion> oh - can we rename the old ones then?
[12:55] <sfllaw> OK.  I was too lazy to put in a redirect.
[12:55] <zul> whoah...the wikihas gone all kubuntu on me
[12:55] <Kamion> zul: you followed a link to wiki.kubuntu.org ...
[12:55] <sfllaw> I have no idea what people want to do with the wiki page, though.
[12:55] <zul> ah...duh..
[12:56] <Kamion> sfllaw: should be filled in shortly before or shortly after the meeting so that we have a permanent record
[12:56] <sfllaw> How does this differ from the IRC log?  I'm not a fan of _adding_ the amount of time people spend doing meeting-related stuff.
[12:57] <Kamion> it's a lot more digestible than the IRC log, IMO
[12:57] <pitti> hi
[12:57] <Kamion> we tried filling it out beforehand last week - it was very unpopular and didn't work well
[12:57] <Mithrandir> 'morning.
[12:57] <Kamion> but people felt that the result was useful nevertheless
[12:57] <Kamion> and seriously, it's like thirty seconds to paste it into the wiki :)
[12:58] <sfllaw> OK.
[12:58] <sfllaw> Whatever makes you happy.
[12:58] <Kamion> I think the process is still evolving, so we'll see
[12:58] <pitti> I missed the discussion beforehand, we paste it into the wiki afterwards?
[12:58] <fschoep> Good night everyone.
[12:58] <sfllaw> fschoep: Uhm...
[12:58] <sfllaw> The meeting is about to start.
[12:59] <fschoep> Yeah it was kind of a joke, because it's 01:00 here.
[12:59] <sfllaw> Oh.  Morning!
[12:59] <fschoep> I'm sorry.
[12:59] <Kamion> I think that was intended to be "good night" as a greeting
[12:59] <fschoep> Kamion is right on the ball.
[12:59] <fabbione> re
[12:59] <Riddell> "Someone else saved this page while you were editing!"  that could happen a lot
[01:00] <pitti> Riddell: shouldn't generate a lot of conflicts, though
[01:00] <kwwii> hi all
[01:00] <rodarvus> hi guys
[01:01] <zul> hi rodarvus 
[01:01] <fschoep> kwwii: Up late :) ?
[01:01] <rodarvus> hi zul!
[01:02] <kwwii> fschoep: yeah, no doubt...I should have been in bed a while ago...my son's last day of school is tomorrow and they get out at 10:00 so no sleeping late either :-(
[01:02] <mdz> good morning folks
[01:02] <ogra> hmm
[01:02] <mdz> do we have everyone?
[01:02] <seb128> hi mdz
[01:03] <Mithrandir> pong
[01:03] <mdz> BenC is on holiday
[01:03] <fschoep> kwwii: I feel your pain, same problem here although for a different reason.
[01:03] <pitti> right, pokering himself rich
[01:03] <dholbach> here
[01:03] <zul> here..
[01:03] <doko> core dump
[01:04] <mdz> Kamion,fabbione,Keybuk,sfllaw,rodarvus,Riddell,iwj: ping
[01:04] <Kamion> here
[01:04] <rodarvus> mdz, pong
[01:04] <fabbione> mdz: yeps i am here
[01:04] <Kamion> (was talking before you arrived, didn't realise you had no scrollback)
[01:04] <Keybuk> mdz: yes, here
[01:04] <mdz> Kamion: iwj doesn't seem to be online; could you ring him?
[01:04] <Riddell> pong
[01:04] <ogra> doko, stp throwing your peach leftovers around
[01:04] <ogra> *stop
[01:04] <Kamion> I understood iwj was sending an update via sfllaw
[01:04] <Kamion> isn't he travelling?
[01:05] <ogra> on a marriage iirc
[01:05] <mdz> oh, right, he's off today
[01:05] <Kamion> yes he's going to the same wedding tomorrow that I am but travelling earlier
[01:05] <sfllaw> It's not in my inbox...
[01:05] <sfllaw> I'll look again.
[01:06] <mdz> ok, let's get started
[01:06] <sfllaw> Mmm.  Nope.
[01:06] <mdz> fschoep requested an early slot, so he's up first
[01:06] <mdz> fschoep: go
[01:06] <fschoep> Done:
[01:06] <fschoep> * wide-theme-selector: contacted bersace to update spec
[01:06] <fschoep> * write up technical limitations / possibilities for artwork targets based on existing documentations
[01:06] <fschoep> * community artwork checkpoint one
[01:06] <fschoep> * sudden vacation
[01:06] <fschoep> Ongoing:
[01:06] <fschoep> * ubuntu-art-login-manager, ubuntu-art-login-splash, ubuntu-art-usplash, ubuntu-art-wallpaper: ongoing proposals, made sketches for usplash and GDM theme
[01:06] <fschoep> * art-polish-human-gtk-theme: identify areas for improvement
[01:06] <fschoep> * ubuntu-art-complete-highcontrast-icons, art-polish-human-icons: find and document icons which need work
[01:06] <fschoep> * wide-theme-selector: fix spec, determine feasibility
[01:07] <fschoep> In the spotlight this week:
[01:07] <fschoep> * community artwork finishes Propose phase, gather results, summarize and decide direction for artwork production
[01:07] <Kamion> sfllaw: he phoned me earlier this evening and was definitely intending to send an update. Must have got stuck in a mail queue somewhere. :-(
[01:07] <mdz> fschoep: art-polish-human-icons has status Unknown; is it started or no?
[01:08] <mdz> fschoep: also, cd-dvd-artwork has status Needs Infrastructure, but I don't see anything in the status whiteboard which explains what infrastructure it's waiting on
[01:08] <fschoep> Well, it is started, but not in the sense that icons are being produced. I'm finishing up the list of work.
[01:08] <mdz> fschoep: I'd call a-p-h-g-t Started then
[01:08] <fschoep> OK
[01:08] <kwwii> mdz: on the DVD artwork side, I guess I could add a few questions to that
[01:09] <kwwii> erm cd-dvd-artwork
[01:09] <fschoep> For the media artwork - I haven't decided yet if we want to do it with the community.
[01:09] <kwwii> I will ask a few questions :-)
[01:09] <mdz> kwwii: note that it's possible that we won't send Edgy CDs via shipit, but rather continue to ship Dapper CDs
[01:10] <mdz> that's why that item is deprioritized, fwiw
[01:10] <kwwii> at least we should get a general idea of what kind of graphics are necessary for that before we even start suggesting anything
[01:10] <Keybuk> mdz: really?  that's, err, interesting
[01:10] <mdz> Keybuk: it's, err, complicated
[01:10] <kwwii> mdz: even so, starting a new design idea would be a good idea, I think (if we could pull it off decently)
[01:10] <mdz> we can chat about it later if you like
[01:11] <mdz> fschoep: thanks for the update
[01:11] <mdz> kwwii: next?
[01:12] <mdz> kwwii: if you aren't prepared, we'll need to come back to you
[01:12] <mdz> doko: next
[01:12] <doko> - this week
[01:12] <doko>   openoffice.org: 2.0.3 packages in edgy and dapper-proposed, still need work before the next knot, next upload will have again native amd64 packages called -experimental.
[01:12] <doko>   edgy-toolchain: glibc FTBFS with -fstack-protector, beeing worked on; glibc ABI problems with long-double-128 on sparc and powerpc, beeing worked on; backport and test of the -mtune=generic patches for gcc-4.1, build gnat-4.1 from separate sources
[01:12] <doko>   other: some sync request, mostly python related, ia32-libs* updates
[01:12] <doko> - next week
[01:12] <doko>   openoffice.org: 2.0.3 packages for dapper-proposed, so that we can have a decision about including these in the dapper point release.
[01:13] <doko>   more openoffice.org work
[01:13] <doko> all other specs: no progress this week
[01:13] <mdz> doko: I did an emergency upgrade of my desktop to amd64 today; I'm interested in testing the oo.o stuff
[01:13] <pitti> me too :)
[01:13] <mdz> doko: earlier today, oo.o upgrade was impossible on i386. is that sorted now?
[01:13] <doko> mdz: will have to wait for the next upload; will do that tomorrow
[01:14] <doko> mdz: I know the bugs and fixes, fixed for the next upload
[01:14] <kwwii> mdz: ready now...
[01:14] <mdz> ok
[01:14] <mdz> doko: is that the only fallout from -fstack-protector so far?  should we do a full rebuild test?
[01:15] <Kamion> yaboot broke too
[01:15] <pitti> mdz: glibc is special since it does some runtime detection of ssp and uses it for only some files
[01:15] <mdz> doko: is the python transition complete for main, or do some still remain? if so, is there a list?
[01:15] <doko> mdz: I would propose to do that one after the -mtune-generic update
[01:15] <mdz> ok
[01:15] <pitti> mdz: don't we do rebuild tests anyway?
[01:15] <doko> mdz: it's difficult to tell, because we didn't remove old packages yet.
[01:15] <pitti> closer to the release, at least
[01:15] <doko> python2.4-XXX
[01:15] <mdz> pitti: yes, but not until later
[01:15] <Kamion> doko: on the contrary I've removed most of the python ones
[01:16] <Kamion> I left out a couple where the new versions hadn't built yet
[01:16] <doko> Kamion: ohh, didn't know. will check tomorrow
[01:16] <mdz> doko: the ones which are obsolete should show up in anastacia
[01:16] <Kamion> but I think I got everything else
[01:17] <mdz> doko: ok, thanks
[01:17] <mdz> kwwii: next
[01:17] <Kamion> (haven't removed all other NBS binaries yet, though I've done some; it takes a while)
[01:17] <Kamion> (if you're being careful anyway)
[01:17] <kwwii> more and more input coming from the community...lots of time spent on 
[01:17] <kwwii> irc
[01:17] <kwwii> hacking on kdm theme. Implemented various ideas using the xml from 
[01:17] <kwwii> dapper as well (those on the wiki)
[01:17] <Keybuk> Kamion: I've tended to do them while doing the NEW queue
[01:17] <kwwii> tweaking icons for qt bzr ui
[01:17] <kwwii> worked on wallpaper variants (http://wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Kubuntu- 
[01:17] <kwwii> Edgy-Ideas)
[01:17] <Keybuk> though that's mostly NBS due to soname change
[01:17] <kwwii> working on the default color scheme (computing color contrasts, 
[01:17] <kwwii> tweaking palette)
[01:17] <kwwii> working on buttons for window deco (and kdm)
[01:17] <kwwii> ouch
[01:17] <kwwii> that did not come out how I wanted it, sorry
[01:17] <mdz> kwwii: try not to word-wrap next time; it'll go faster
[01:18] <kwwii> mdz: sorry
[01:18] <mdz> kwwii: thanks
[01:18] <kwwii> should I repost, line for line?
[01:18] <mdz> Mithrandir: next
[01:18] <Mithrandir> sane-installer-keyboard: a fair amount of progress.  Tested the latest version of console-setup from Debian and apart from some minor faff, it appears to work.  Will hand over to Colin before going on vacation.
[01:18] <mdz> kwwii: no, that's OK
[01:18] <Mithrandir> live-cd-stacked-filesystems: casper side implemented, server side discussed with Adam.
[01:18] <Mithrandir> other specs: no progress
[01:18] <Mithrandir> misc: gotten in touch with the Debian people about casper again, relationship working better now.
[01:18] <Mithrandir> next week: vacation.  I'll be away until the distro sprint for wedding preparations, wedding and honeymoon.  Colin or Adam (I think) will handle knot-2 and I'll be back for knot-3.
[01:18] <mdz> kwwii,fschoep: if you're dividing the artwork specs between you, please set Assignee accordingly so it's clear who is doing what
[01:18] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'll mail you about the sane-installer-keyboard stuff since you're gone tomorrow.
[01:18] <Kamion> Mithrandir: thanks
[01:18] <mdz> Mithrandir: please update s-i-k status in LP
[01:19] <fschoep> mdz: sounds like a plan, right now we're using ubuntu-art as a general assignee.
[01:19] <Mithrandir> mdz: willdo
[01:19] <mdz> Mithrandir: I'd like to hear about the casper relationship outside of the meeting, especially if there's any hope of getting them to participate in revision control properly
[01:20] <mdz> Kamion: confirm that you'll fill in for knot-2?
[01:20] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[01:20] <mdz> ok
[01:20] <kwwii> mdz: all the specs for Edgy are for both Ubuntu and Kubuntu (and Xubuntu as well, I guess)
[01:20] <mdz> Mithrandir: thanks, and enjoy your break
[01:20] <Mithrandir> mdz: they seem to do that now; now I just miss cherrypicking in bzr..
[01:20] <mdz> rodarvus: next
[01:20] <rodarvus> Done This week:
[01:20] <rodarvus>   * Finished X.Org libs update to 7.1 (actually, to the latest version available, most of them, past 7.1), Mesa 6.5, xorg-server 1.1.1 (with new ABI)
[01:20] <rodarvus>   * Updated X.Org input drivers to latest version available (+ accomodate xorg-server ABI bump)
[01:20] <rodarvus>   * Started X.Org video drivers to latest version available (+ accomodate xorg-server ABI bump)
[01:20] <rodarvus>   * Started implementation of fully-automatic-swap-server
[01:20] <rodarvus>   * Work on i810 bugs on LaunchPad (escalated support requests)
[01:20] <rodarvus>   * Miscelaneous Edubuntu work
[01:20] <rodarvus> Next week:
[01:21] <rodarvus>   * Finish update of X.Org video drivers (another 6-8 hours of work)
[01:21] <rodarvus>   * Finish implementation of fully-automatic-swap-server
[01:21] <rodarvus>   * Finish catching up with X bugs (primarily based on result from libs + drivers upgrades) (postponed from last week)
[01:21] <rodarvus> Soon (no timeframe):
[01:21] <rodarvus>   * Officially start Ubuntu OLPC effort
[01:21] <rodarvus>   * Investigate other Linux distros (Fedora, OpenSuSE, etc) for nice X.Org patches which are not included in Ubuntu)
[01:21] <rodarvus> Outsanding issues:
[01:21] <rodarvus>   * xorg-server (on sparc) and xserver-xorg-input-evie (all archs) FTBFS due to missing includes - check possible update of l-k-h with BenC and fabbione
[01:21] <rodarvus> Apologies:
[01:21] <rodarvus>   * For publishing xorg-server before I had all X.Org {input|video} drivers ready to be uploaded - I was unaware of the ABI upgrade (rationale: I tested upgrade locally on two different machines, but as they use binary drivers, they were unnafected by this bug)
[01:21] <rodarvus> (finally, sorry for the long report, I'll try to trim it next time)
[01:21] <sfllaw> rodarvus: The xserver-xorg-video-* packages don't upgrade cleanly.  I think they need a Replaces: line in debian/control.
[01:21] <Mithrandir> rodarvus: have you any thoughts on the "dualhead with two cards broken in dapper" bug?  I'm thinking we should do an xserver-xorg update for it.
[01:21] <mdz> rodarvus: I think we need for xserver-xorg-core to conflict with the versions of the drivers which use the old ABI in order to resolve the bug I filed
[01:22] <mdz> oherwise they can get out of sync
[01:22] <rodarvus> sfllaw, they already have a replaces tag there.
[01:22] <Kamion> probably Breaks now
[01:22] <sfllaw> I'm blind.
[01:22] <Kamion> (now that we have it)
[01:22] <mdz> rodarvus: it might be a good idea to add a Provides: to xserver-xorg-core for the ABI version, and have the drivers depend on that
[01:22] <rodarvus> Mithrandir, I think so, lets talk about this after the meeting, or tomorrow
[01:22] <mdz> Kamion: unless I missed something, only dpkg has it
[01:22] <Keybuk> mdz: according to the spec, APT isn't supposed to need to know about it
[01:22] <Kamion> mdz: yes, we should start using it where appropriate though
[01:22] <Keybuk> other than for prettyness
[01:23] <Mithrandir> rodarvus: tomorrow's fine.
[01:23] <rodarvus> mdz, hmm, yeah, I think you're right - I'll update xorg-server later
[01:23] <rodarvus> (today, I mean)
[01:23] <sfllaw> rodarvus: Nope.  xserver-xorg-video-all doesn't.
[01:23] <mdz> Keybuk: hmm, I ought to have a look over that
[01:23] <rodarvus> mdz, regarding abi version, yes, this is planned too
[01:23] <mdz> I'd expect the ordering mechanism to need to know about it
[01:23] <rodarvus> sfllaw, oh, so this one is missing - thanks for the report
[01:23] <rodarvus> I'll update it too
[01:23] <mdz> rodarvus: ok, thanks
[01:23] <mdz> sfllaw: next
[01:23] <sfllaw> Done
[01:23] <sfllaw>  * OttawaLinuxSymposium 2006
[01:23] <sfllaw>  * Gave a talk at the UniversityOfWaterloo
[01:23] <sfllaw> To do
[01:23] <sfllaw>  * Write up Waterloo experience
[01:24] <sfllaw>  * Test plans for new features: QuietenGrub, ReviveTaskSel, HomeUserBackup
[01:24] <sfllaw>  * Bug triaging
[01:24] <mdz> sfllaw: did you hear something back from the LP folks about getting bug stats?
[01:24] <Kamion> sfllaw: happy to talk with you early next week about revive-tasksel if you need that
[01:25] <sfllaw> mdz: That's something I have to write to them about.  I hadn't collected what I wanted to and e-mail was sporadic at the conference.
[01:25] <sfllaw> Kamion: That would be lovely.
[01:25] <ogra> the new Ubugtu feature is really nice btw ...
[01:25] <mdz> sfllaw: thanks
[01:25] <dholbach> yeah
[01:25] <mdz> fabbione: next
[01:25] <zul> sfllaw: if you need help with quietengrub im avaialble as well
[01:25] <sfllaw> We can thank Seveas for that.
[01:25] <fabbione> Done
[01:25] <fabbione>  * ubuntu-edgy-cluster: lot of work on the redhat-cluster-suite again. We have 2
[01:25] <fabbione>  regressions to fix compared to dapper but generally it doesn't look too bad.
[01:25] <fabbione>  * finally got pkgsum.u.c up and running (server spec from dapper) so i might up
[01:25] <fabbione> load the client for edgy when i am back and after retesting it with the new inst
[01:25] <fabbione> aller.
[01:25] <fabbione> To do
[01:25] <fabbione>  * become a father, no really.
[01:25] <mdz> ogra: what new Ubugtu feature?
[01:26] <dholbach> mdz: announce of new bugs in #ubuntu-bugs
[01:26] <mdz> fabbione: fabbione-birthing, Priority: Essential
[01:26] <fabbione> mdz: ehehhe
[01:26] <mdz> dholbach: oh, nice
[01:26] <ogra> mdz, see -devel
[01:26] <dholbach> it's quite depressing, but nice
[01:26] <sfllaw> It's more frequent than I thought it'd be.
[01:26] <sfllaw> And I'm pessimistic.
[01:26] <sfllaw> fabbione: Congrats!
[01:26] <mdz> it's about as frequent as I thought it would be
[01:26] <seb128> mdz: not that nice after reading the chan for some hours and noticing how they come :/
[01:27] <mdz> sfllaw: should hopefully provide a good entry point for new volunteers
[01:27] <mdz> seb128: maybe there should be a separate channel
[01:27] <doko> fabbione: the status is already "implemented"? 
[01:27] <mdz> seb128: or separate main and universe
[01:27] <mdz> fabbione: thanks
[01:27] <mdz> Kamion: next
[01:27] <seb128> separate main and universe would be nice
[01:27] <fabbione> thanks guys :)
[01:27] <Kamion> Done:
[01:27] <Kamion>   revive-tasksel: Done except for a pending Soyuz patch to make the archive side work (sent to Celso and waiting for deployment). I tested the whole thing today and it seems to be working OK.
[01:27] <Kamion>   ubiquity: Continued with the big pile of bug-fixing and produced an initial dapper-updates upload.
[01:28] <Kamion>   ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: Some more prodding at the custom disk bar widgets; not getting very far here, so I'm switching to writing the partman debconffilter glue and am making much better progress there. If anyone would like to volunteer to help write custom GTK (and Qt?) widgets to my specifications, that would be great. Doing them in Python where possible is fine.
[01:28] <Kamion>   libata-for-all-ata-disks: Did most of the required installer changes in conjunction with Scott et al. Some bootloader installer changes may still be needed.
[01:28] <Kamion> To do:
[01:28] <Kamion>   ubiquity: Didn't get to #47742 last week, so try again this week.
[01:28] <Kamion>   ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: Finish initial attempt at the partman glue. I'd like to have an initial crude presentation without the disk bar widgets by the end of next week if I can manage it.
[01:28] <Kamion>   dapper-point-release-process: Do the first Dapper point release. Most of the pieces are in place now; if you know of something that needs to go in, please tell me as soon as possible! (If I can squeeze in some required SPARC fixes, I will.)
[01:28] <mdz> Kamion: do you have an approximate timeline for the point release?
[01:29] <Kamion> mdz: I'd like it to end by the middle of next week; if infinity could start on livefs builds tomorrow, that would be lovely
[01:29] <mdz> Kamion: if you send me an email with a description of what you need for the UI, I think we should be able to get some pygtk muscle with no problem.  perhaps Riddell can suggest someone for the Qt side
[01:29] <fabbione> Kamion: please stay in contact with Ben for testing these bits. I will ask Davem too to test
[01:29] <doko> Kamion: I would like to see OOo 2.0.3 in the point release; what would be the latest date for a decision?
[01:29] <Kamion> doko: anything later than the weekend or so is going to start running us into build time problems
[01:30] <doko> ok
[01:30] <Riddell> mdz: I could yes
[01:30] <Kamion> mdz: testing should be light but focused on known-changed areas, I think
[01:30] <mdz> if we hope to reduce the size of the dapper->dapper-updates upgrade, we should get oo.o in
[01:30] <Kamion> we have some reasonable idea of what's been changed as far as the live CD goes
[01:30] <Kamion> mdz: UI> OK, I can do that on Monday
[01:30] <mdz> sfllaw: can you help Kamion with a test plan for known-changed stuff and regression tests?
[01:31] <Kamion> fabbione: ok, thanks
[01:31] <mdz> Kamion: please ask Adam about the ordering stuff for the point release as well; I assume that's pretty straightforward to do and should be quite safe
[01:32] <Kamion> ok
[01:32] <Kamion> is Adam on holiday?
[01:32] <mdz> he couldn't make this meeting
[01:33] <mdz> but he'll be in touch
[01:33] <Kamion> ok, I'll mail him
[01:33] <mdz> is BenC doing the kernel side of libata-for-all-ata-disks?
[01:33] <Kamion> doko: have you had reasonable testing of the packages in dapper-proposed so far?
[01:33] <Keybuk> it's done, no?
[01:33] <Keybuk> well, other than the bootloader dep bit
[01:33] <mdz> Keybuk: I thought when it was done, ATA disks would become /dev/sd* devices
[01:34] <Keybuk> mdz: vi /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-pata
[01:34] <Keybuk> mdz: adjust to taste
[01:34] <doko> Kamion: did run the qa-tools on it; tested it except upgrades ... :-/
[01:34] <mdz> Keybuk: are we not going to throw the switch and use them by default?
[01:34] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, that switch is in module-init-tools though -- probably need yaboot and $ia64bootloader to be done first ;)
[01:34] <doko> Kamion: i386 and amd64 (i386) only, no powerpc and sparc testing
[01:35] <mdz> Keybuk: ok
[01:35] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[01:35] <mdz> mvo: next
[01:35] <mvo> Did:
[01:35] <mvo> - general catchup after my vacation (mail, specs, pkgs)
[01:35] <mvo> - apt work:
[01:35] <mvo>   * automatic-dependency-removal bugfixing
[01:35] <mvo>   * fix some apt-ftparchive breakage 
[01:35] <mvo>   * catchup with the deity list and various bugfixes
[01:35] <mvo>   * work on the ddtp branch (bugfixes, added support to synaptic)
[01:35] <mvo>   * sha256 support branch created that checks sha256 instead of md5 for all authentication (needs infrastructure support)
[01:35] <mvo> - gnome-app-install:
[01:35] <mvo>   * better support for packages that are not available on all architectures
[01:35] <mvo>   * updated edgy desktop files
[01:35] <mvo>   * added popcon information to the desktop files
[01:35] <mvo> - some work with pitti on the automatic crash reports spec (gui, update-notifier detects crashreports and tell the user about them)
[01:35] <mvo> - some work on the smartpm spec (upgraded, pkg split)
[01:35] <mvo> - added support in software-properties for the "easy-popcon participation" spec
[01:35] <mvo> Will do:
[01:35] <mvo> - work on the gnome-app-install desktop file caching/speedu
[01:35] <mvo> - look into what aptitudes needs to natively work with the new apt auto-remove
[01:35] <mvo> - work on a custom upload format for launchpad and the package description translations
[01:35] <mvo> - see what my SoC student is doing
[01:35] <mdz> mvo: are you mostly caught up from when you were away?
[01:36] <mvo> mdz: mostly, my bug backlog is terrible
[01:36] <Riddell> mvo: I'll take a look at the python konsole patch tomorrow, should be great if it works
[01:37] <mdz> mvo: ok, thanks
[01:37] <mdz> Riddell: next
[01:37] <mvo> Riddell: it should work, it needs a bit of love most likely to fully suport the methods of the console
[01:37] <mvo> s/console/konsole/
[01:37] <Riddell> done: kubuntu-printer-sharing, KDE 3.5.4 (no problems, will be requesting UVF exception)
[01:37] <Riddell> blocked: kdepim needing some more main inclusion reviews.  backports
[01:37] <Riddell> next week: langpacks-desktopfiles-kde, knot 2
[01:37] <mdz> mvo: (I've added simple-popcon-participation as an edgy target)
[01:37] <mvo> mdz: thanks, that is fine
[01:38] <pitti> Riddell: reviews> argh, yes; I shall find some time tomorrow to process them
[01:38] <mdz> Riddell: please make a pass over anastacia and check the demotions as well
[01:38] <Riddell> mdz: ok
[01:38] <mdz> pitti: maybe we should talk about sharing main inclusion reviews with jbailey?
[01:38] <pitti> ++ :)
[01:38] <mdz> pitti: if the load is high
[01:39] <mdz> pitti: ok, please send a mail to him and me
[01:39] <mdz> Riddell: thanks
[01:39] <pitti> well, it's not too bad
[01:39] <mdz> zul: next
[01:39] <zul> done: uploaded xen-3.0 xen-source-2.6.16, kernel-security stuff
[01:39] <zul> todo: more kernel security, xen on amd64, grub updates, bug triaging
[01:39] <mdz> zul: is xen expected to stay at .16 for edgy?
[01:39] <zul> yes..
[01:39] <pitti> zul: do you get along with the new tracking stuff?
[01:39] <mdz> zul: is there a howto anywhere for how to set it up and play?
[01:39] <zul> pitti: yes im find with it
[01:39] <zul> mdz: i have a page on the wiki
[01:40] <mdz> zul: new grub seems to be working well for me all around
[01:40] <zul> i havent had any complaints yet
[01:40] <zul> or havent seen any either
[01:40] <mdz> zul: a message to -devel-announce with a pointer to the instructions and a request for testing would be good
[01:40] <zul> ok..sounds good
[01:40] <mdz> ok
[01:40] <mdz> zul: thanks
[01:40] <mdz> seb128: next
[01:41] <seb128> Done:
[01:41] <seb128> - GNOME 2.15.90
[01:41] <seb128> - bug triage
[01:41] <seb128> - added an option to network-admin to activate avahi
[01:41] <seb128> .
[01:41] <seb128> To do:
[01:41] <seb128> - mails catching up
[01:41] <seb128> - catching up with SoC projects are doing
[01:41] <seb128> - lot and lot of bugs to triage
[01:41] <seb128> - work on the list of desktop fixes I've noted for dapper-updates and upload some of them
[01:41] <seb128> - look at GNOME 2.14.3 updates and what should be uploaded to dappers-updates from it (I still have some 2.14.2 updates on my list too, I gave them some time to get feedback from Debian and upstream before updating) 
[01:41] <mdz> seb128: ok, I'll watch for the dapper-updates reviews
[01:41] <mdz> seb128: thanks
[01:41] <mdz> dholbach: next
[01:41] <dholbach> Done
[01:41] <dholbach>     * GNOME 2.15.90
[01:41] <dholbach>     * uploaded most galago bits to the archive, need to try beagle with them
[01:41] <dholbach>     * bug triage
[01:41] <dholbach>     * ubuntu-artwork split
[01:41] <dholbach> To do
[01:42] <dholbach>     * more bug triage
[01:42] <dholbach>     * do changes to icon page
[01:42] <mdz> dholbach: is the artwork split complete?
[01:42] <dholbach> yes
[01:42] <mdz> ok, great
[01:42] <Keybuk> dholbach: do you think next time you upload NEW stuff, you could check the licences out first?
[01:42] <dholbach> Keybuk: yes, i try to do better.
[01:42] <Keybuk> given I've had to reject the same set of packages from you TWICE now
[01:42] <mdz> speaking of NEW stuff, I graphviz-cairo seems to still be in the queue
[01:43] <mdz> s/I //
[01:43] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[01:43] <mdz> ogra: next
[01:43] <ogra> * last-week: 
[01:43] <ogra>  - screensaver transition and some bugfixes
[01:43] <ogra>  - gnome-power-manager - fiddling with massive upstream codechanges
[01:43] <ogra>  - finished work on the ppc part of ltsp-daily-image-tarballs (ppc tarballs will be on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-tarballs/ on monday/tuesday and run by cron.daily from then on)
[01:43] <ogra>  - various bugfixes and small ltsp enhancements (i.e automatically use existing swap partitions on clients, no ssh grief anymore after changing the server IP, popcon support for thin clients in ltsp-build-client)
[01:43] <ogra>  - moving
[01:43] <ogra> * next-week:
[01:43] <ogra>  - setting up ltsp lab
[01:43] <ogra>  - starting on thinclient-local-devices
[01:43] <ogra>  - preparing the next knot ?
[01:43] <ogra>  - starting on student-control-panel-completion
[01:43] <ogra> * specs: 
[01:43] <ogra>  - student-control-panel-completion: (waiting for approval)
[01:44] <ogra>  - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs: (in progress)
[01:44] <ogra>  - ltsp-convergence: (no progress)
[01:44] <ogra>  - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: (no progress)
[01:44] <ogra>  - thinclient-local-devices (waiting for lab setup, starting next week)
[01:44] <mdz> ogra: we need to get your remaining specs through review and onto the edgy list
[01:45] <ogra> specs ? 
[01:45] <ogra> there is only one left 
[01:45] <mdz> only dhcpd and local-dev are there so far
[01:45] <ogra> ltsp-convergence is no spec, but we agreed to track it via LP
[01:45] <mdz> ltsp-daily-image-tarballs is Review
[01:46] <mdz> wasn't netboot-enhancement marked obsolete?
[01:46] <ogra> hmm ... its done already and will need a xen setup in the DC
[01:46] <mdz> xen??
[01:46] <ogra> you wanted me to monitor it via LP as well
[01:46] <ogra> yes
[01:46] <ogra> i cant get root access on the servers :)
[01:46] <mdz> ogra: it should get approved and targeted for edgy, yes
[01:46] <mdz> ogra: you don't need root; it should work like the livefs builds
[01:46] <ogra> so elmo said xen would be the way to go
[01:47] <mdz> seems like infrastructure overkill
[01:47] <ogra> i need to be able to mount and umount /proc, to debootstrap stuff and to chroot
[01:47] <Kamion> uh, unless I'm on crack, the livefs builds run as root on the buildds
[01:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: the livefs-es quite certainly are built as root.
[01:48] <mdz> yes
[01:48] <mdz> build runs as root != ogra has root
[01:48] <Mithrandir> true
[01:48] <Kamion> it could be YA buildd special cron job I guess
[01:48] <ogra> mdz, its fine to run it at home until the infrastructure is ready and elmo is happy
[01:48] <mdz> ogra: don't let it become another hwdb though; it needs to be in the DC for edgy
[01:48] <ogra> he said the only opportunities he sees are fakechroot and xen
[01:49] <mdz> get the details into the spec and it can be reviewed, approved and targeted
[01:49] <ogra> fakechroot cant handle mounting/unmounting proc and has many other issues
[01:49] <ogra> ok
[01:49] <mdz> ogra: thanks
[01:49] <mdz> Keybuk: next
[01:49] <Keybuk> Done
[01:49] <Keybuk>  * Teardown: implemented as specified, there will be ongoing work to remove shutdown scripts from packages not installed by default.
[01:49] <Keybuk>  * LibAtaForAtaDisks: implemented /etc/fstab migration (in volumeid); implemented resume-from-uuid which we forgot in the spec; grub root= migration.
[01:49] <Keybuk>   - Needs someone else to do other bootloaders (who knows them, and can test better).
[01:49] <Keybuk>   - Needs someone who knows them to investigate "special filesystems" (LVM, EVMS, RAID, devmapper, etc.).
[01:49] <Keybuk>   - Probably also needs mount to be patched to use libvolume_id instead of libblkid so it can support uuids from more filesystems.
[01:49] <Keybuk>  * ReplacementInit: making progress; debating when is the right time to add this to the archive, as it will not be fit to completely replace /sbin/init for a few weeks yet -- but then maybe this is a development release, so people shouldn't need their machine to boot normally, etc.
[01:50] <Keybuk> To do
[01:50] <Keybuk>  * Spending the week mostly on ReplacementInit and BootMessageLogging
[01:50] <mdz> Keybuk: I noticed that the teardown stuff doesn't seem to take effect on upgrades; is that intentional or incompleteness?
[01:50] <mdz> mount-by-uuid seems to be working well for me all arround
[01:50] <Kamion> I can probably manage to do yaboot on Monday
[01:50] <Keybuk> mdz: err, it should take effect
[01:51] <Keybuk> I certainly tested that
[01:51] <pitti> Keybuk: init-on-crack> would this break booting so hard to become unconfortably unusable?
[01:51] <Keybuk> pitti: initially things like runlevels wouldn't work
[01:51] <pitti> Keybuk: like, switching between 2 and 3? that shouldn't hurt too much
[01:52] <mdz> Keybuk: hmm, maybe it didn't remove as much stuff as I expected
[01:52] <pitti> mdz: took effect for me at least
[01:52] <pitti> mdz: and I didn't remove anything manually
[01:52] <Keybuk> mdz: it's a whitelist removal remember ... so if you have lots of extra crack outside of ubuntu-desktop installed, those won't be removed yet
[01:52] <mdz> Keybuk: oh, you only did desktop, not main?
[01:52] <Keybuk> mdz: right
[01:52] <fabbione> Keybuk: didn't you use to call them "fabbione filesystems" :P
[01:52] <Keybuk> see "there will be ongoing work to remove shutdown scripts from packages not installed by default."
[01:53] <Keybuk> fabbione: I only call them that when you're not in earshot <g>
[01:53] <fabbione> Keybuk: ROFL
[01:53] <mdz> Keybuk: ok, thanks
[01:53] <mdz> Keybuk: it would be nice if update-rc.d just did the right thing
[01:54] <mdz> pitti: next
[01:54] <Keybuk> mdz: that would break things
[01:54] <pitti> Done:
[01:54] <pitti>  * security updates: php, mysql, firefox, mozilla, thunderbird, heartbeat, ruby1.8, freetype; this took the majority of my time this week
[01:54] <pitti>  * heavy edgy cups bug fixing and improvements
[01:54] <pitti>  * prepared cups 1.2.2 for dapper
[01:54] <pitti>  * gave MOTU school seminar about patching source packages; got great appreciation
[01:54] <pitti>  * automated-problem-reports:
[01:54] <Kamion> it would also be nice if update-rc.d could do the removals rather than having to do rm -f; I got a bug in Debian from a file-rc user about that
[01:54] <pitti>   * completed packaging of the backend
[01:54] <mdz> Keybuk: I don't see a problem with following the "if you didn't change it from the defaults, we update your config" approach
[01:54] <pitti>   * created a reasonably usable GTK frontend (thanks to mvo for his suggestions and help!), uploaded new version
[01:54] <pitti>   * backend is BLOCKED: needs changed kernel implementation of crash dump helper calling
[01:54] <pitti>  * finally caught up on bug mail
[01:54] <pitti>  * looked at the mysterious Heisenbug'ish apt-ftparchive failure on the daily langpacks several times, stared at straces, etc; I have absolutely no clue about this; help greatly appreciated
[01:54] <mdz> Kamion: that's what I meant
[01:54] <pitti> To Do:
[01:54] <pitti>  * talk with infinity about deploying pkg-create-dbgsym (so that I can watch FTBFSes caused by this and fix them)
[01:54] <pitti>  * automated-problem-reports: fix some bugs, some improvements, discuss Qt frontend with KDE guys; find some people to HIGify my crappy UI design :)
[01:54] <pitti>  * more pending security updates
[01:54] <pitti>  * interview security engineer applicants
[01:54] <pitti> (sorry, long vehicle, but it was a busy week)
[01:55] <Keybuk> mdz: agree
[01:55] <mdz> Keybuk: by DTRT I mean update the symlinks on upgrades if they haven't been touched
[01:55] <Keybuk> but *-rc.d are broken by design anyway *sigh*
[01:55] <mdz> it's silly to have to modify maintainer scripts for that
[01:55] <mvo> pitti: what is this about apt-ftparchive? can we talk about this off-meeting?
[01:55] <mdz> pitti: is the MOTU school stuff published in UWN?  please submit it if it isn't there already
[01:55] <mdz> a link to the log or something
[01:56] <mdz> maybe encourage somebody to write it up as a tutorial
[01:56] <mdz> pitti: is the kernel bit a BenC item?
[01:56] <pitti> mvo: tomorrow? I'd appreciate that
[01:56] <pitti> mdz: yes
[01:56] <dholbach> mdz: LaserJock already volunteered
[01:56] <mdz> pitti: ok, he'll be back Monday
[01:56] <pitti> mdz: uwn> not yet submitted, will do
[01:56] <mvo> pitti: sure
[01:56] <pitti> mdz: it's already a wiki page
[01:57] <mdz> pitti: great
[01:57] <pitti> I'll brush it up a little bit
[01:57] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[01:57] <mdz> have I missed anyone?
[01:57] <ogra> LaserJock is currently looking for stuff he can add to the packaging guide :)
[01:57] <mdz> speaking of UWN, it'd be a good idea to add an "edgy update" section and for all of us to add bits there as interesting things land
[01:57] <ogra> so the motu school stuff will show up there in some form
[01:58] <Riddell> UWN seems to still be in the mailman queue from last week
[01:58] <Riddell> is someone taking over from jdub on the mailing lists?
[01:58] <mdz> Riddell: gar, I added matt galvin to the whitelist so he wouldn't get moderated
[01:58] <Keybuk> Riddell: which mailing lists?
[01:58] <Riddell> Keybuk: ubuntu-news in this case
[01:59] <mdz> have done the same for whomever sent #7 now
[01:59] <mdz> I'm not taking over but I have privileges to clean up messes
[02:00] <mdz> mako is the moderator of that list, from back when he did traffic
[02:00] <Burgwork> mdz, I can take over the mailing list
[02:00] <Burgwork> lists, rather
[02:00] <mdz> Burgwork: done and done
[02:00] <mdz> Burgwork: email address?
[02:00] <Burgwork> corey.burger@gmail.com
[02:00] <Amaranth> woohoo
[02:00] <mdz> Burgwork: preferably your ubuntu.com address
[02:00] <Burgwork> corey.burger@ubuntu.com
[02:01] <mdz> changed
[02:01] <mdz> ok, out of time
[02:01] <mdz> thanks, everyone
[02:01] <mdz> adjourned
[02:01] <Mithrandir> 'night.
[02:01] <dholbach> thanks everyone
[02:01] <mdz> good night
[02:01] <dholbach> good night
[02:01] <ogra> thanks mdz 
[02:01] <seb128> night
[02:01] <rodarvus> good night
[02:01] <mvo> night
[02:01] <pitti> thanks all
[02:01] <pitti> sleep well everyone