[12:09] <sistpoty> ubotu: what's the link to the new/byhand queue?
[12:09] <ubotu> I know nothing about what's the link to the new/byhand queue? - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu
[12:10] <slomo> sistpoty: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=&start=0
[12:10] <sistpoty> thx slomo
[12:32] <ryanakca> dh_make created debian/control... I'm wondering, what's the difference between ipod-sharp1, and ipod-sharp-dev?    (dh_make told me to change ipod-sharpBROKEN to ipod-sharp1)... debian/control: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19052
[12:33] <slomo> ryanakca: ipod-sharp is already packaged
[12:33] <slomo> and there is no reason for a 1 and -dev binary package
[12:34] <sistpoty> btw.: can anybody explain the all new "Breaks:" field to me?
[12:34] <shawarma> ryanakca: Well, ipod-sharp1 will contain whatever is needed for other apps to use the library, while the -dev package contains the stuff needed to develop stuff against the library.
[12:35] <shawarma> sistpoty: Anything in particular you don't understand?
[12:35] <slomo> ryanakca: and the 1 package is for the runtime stuff, the -dev package for the stuff needed to compile against it... which is never needed for CLI libraries
[12:35] <shawarma> slomo: Ah. i did not know that.
[12:35] <sistpoty> shawarma: well, it should be used instead of conflicts, so I assume this is for file conflicts?
[12:35] <shawarma> sistpoty: No... That's what conflicts does, actually. :-)
[12:35] <ogra> sistpoty, afaik its working on a package level, not on content
[12:36] <ryanakca> slomo: it is? nothing shows up on packages.ubuntu.com (for me anywais)... I'm probably not searching right...
[12:36] <ogra> so its "conflicts" for packages, not files
[12:36] <slomo> ryanakca: binary packages are named libipod-cil and libipodui-cil
[12:37] <sistpoty> ogra, shawarma: ok, thanks... then it makes sense to me
[12:37] <ryanakca> slomo: ty... *wishes he had found this out a couple of hours ago*
[12:37] <shawarma> sistpoty: Keybuk has a rant somewhere that explains the conflicts field pretty well. I'll try to dig it up.
[12:37] <sistpoty> shawarma: never mind... I know that conflict rant quite well ;)
[12:37] <ogra> its on a xscreensaver or gnome-screensaver bug
[12:37] <shawarma> sistpoty: Ok, great.
[12:38] <slomo> ryanakca: sorry... why do you need it btw? :)
[12:38] <sistpoty> maybe I got mislead because ian wrote that basically any "conflicts" should be replaced with breaks now... ;)
[12:38] <ryanakca> slomo: no need to feel sorry... my fault :)
[12:38] <ryanakca> slomo: package dopi
[12:38] <slomo> tseng: see above :)
[12:39] <slomo> ryanakca: iirc there were problems with dopi that prevented it from beeing packaged... but better talk to tseng about it
[12:39] <zul> hey
[12:39] <shawarma> sistpoty: Yeah. That's because most people used the "Conflicts" field when what they really meant was "Breaks".
[12:40] <sistpoty> shawarma: hehe, k... thx!
[12:40] <ryanakca> (s)he's away... hmmm.. I'll bug him later... and I'll go look for something else to package :)
[12:41] <slomo> ryanakca: just try it :) but please also read this: http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
[12:42] <ryanakca> ick... policies :)
[12:43] <zul> policies make the world go around
[12:43] <ryanakca> :)
[12:46] <ryanakca> slomo: I didn't understand any of that... I'll find a non-cli app to package
[12:48] <ryanakca> yay... is the wiki is acting up for the I don't know what time today... used to not load.. at least now it loads without css :)
[12:49] <ryanakca> is there a wiki/howto for packaging python apps?
[12:50] <crimsun> on debian.net there should be
[12:50] <crimsun> and then there's Python Policy
[12:55] <LaserJock> yeah, I'd love to add stuff like that to the packaging guide, but it's so long as it is
[12:56] <crimsun> nah, it's two lines.
[12:56] <crimsun> "For blah go here:\nURL"
[12:56] <crimsun> :-)
[12:56] <LaserJock> well, yeah
[12:57] <LaserJock> but an example of a python package
[12:57] <LaserJock> or a library
[12:57] <LaserJock> or ..
[12:57] <crimsun> use mutagen and quod libet
[12:57] <crimsun> they're pretty straightforward
[01:02] <ryanakca> crimsun: mutagen? quod libet?
[01:02] <crimsun> (python-based)
[01:02] <crimsun> ryanakca: responding to Jordan
[01:04] <ryanakca> ah
[01:09] <shawarma> bddebian: axiom is building now.. :-)
[01:10] <bddebian> Heya folks
[01:10] <bddebian> shawarma: Sweet, what was it?
[01:10] <sistpoty> hi bddebian
[01:10] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty
[01:10] <shawarma> bddebian: Well.. . Nothing much apart from what you also did.
[01:11] <sistpoty> bddebian: thx for updating trigger-data, so that was basically a no change upload ;)
[01:11] <shawarma> bddebian: I'll make a debdiff. 2 seconds.
[01:11] <bddebian> sistpoty: Aye :-)
[01:11] <sistpoty> bddebian: if you want another no change upload (this time for main) that would be min12xxw ;)
[01:11] <bddebian> sistpoty: I can't do main :-(
[01:12] <zul> bddebian: that maybe true but you can get it sponsored if you want
[01:12] <sistpoty> bddebian: same as me... those bastards just put in main for dapper *g*
[01:12] <bddebian> :-)
[01:12] <bddebian> zul: I hear that but I still don't get how that is supposed to work
[01:15] <bddebian> sistpoty: Is that another manual merge?
[01:18] <sistpoty> bddebian: no, would be a sync iirc...
[01:21] <bddebian> sistpoty: I guess what I meant was, where did it come from?  trigger-data was on the universe-manual merge page :-)
[01:22] <sistpoty> bddebian: I finally tried to find a sponsor for min12xxw in debian (and found one)...
[01:23] <sistpoty> bddebian: while trigger is now comaintained by the debian-games team, I still maintain min12xxw alone
[01:24] <sistpoty> bddebian: trigger shipped only a bz2 as tarball... and tolimar seemed to have repacked it during uploading, that's the difference ;)
[01:24] <bddebian> Ahh :-)
[01:32] <tseng> slomo: i dont remember tbh
[01:32] <tseng> slomo: probably something not bundled
[01:51] <Viper550> I've got a pretty good spec which I'm trying to get to Universe
[01:52] <^ohoel> does it involve slab? ;)
[01:52] <Viper550> Yes
[01:52] <^ohoel> have you managed to reduce its memory footprint btw?
[01:53] <Viper550> It doesn't have a memory footprint actually
[01:53] <^ohoel> bah, gnome system monitor, you LIE!
[01:53] <slomo> get your packages up on revu, find two motu to review and approve your package and it is in universe ;) but you should really make it a non-fork before...
[01:54] <crimsun> which spec?
[01:54] <Viper550> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-slab
[01:55] <crimsun> why fork?
[01:56] <crimsun> do you really [anticipate]  enjoy[ing]  the extra maintenance?
[01:56] <Viper550> The default slab has features that only work under SUSE Linux
[01:57] <crimsun> can they be autotoolised into a compile-time feature?
[01:57] <Viper550> The heck?
[01:57] <slomo> so make it distro agnostic and get your patches into gnome cvs (to repeat tseng ;) )
[01:57] <slomo> crimsun: could probably even be gconf settings
[01:57] <crimsun> slomo: even better
[01:58] <tseng> Viper550: for the future I do not appreciate you taking my ideas as your own, and then when criticized, recant saying that I "forced" you to post it
[01:58] <Viper550> It IS distro agnostic (except for the "install software link")
[01:58] <tseng> you acted very excited about the idea in your first post, and in fact critical of people doing the same as you
[02:00] <slomo> Viper550: so if it is only this single setting make a patch to make it a gconf key or configure setting and send it upstream... they will probably happy to include it. then you can simply package upstream and we can easily get it in universe :)
[02:01] <Viper550> How do you do that? I'm not very experienced in coding that much
[02:02] <slomo> then you shouldn't maintain a complete fork of something anyway ;) well, file a bug on it, probably in gnome bugzilla or write a mail to the developers asking about it or whatever
[02:04] <Viper550> There's no section about Slab on bugzilla
[02:09] <slomo> Viper550: then write a mail :)
[02:09] <slomo> *shrug*
[02:11] <ohoel> I think half the mails on ubuntu-art come from viper
[02:11] <tseng> whats that have to do with anything
[02:11] <tseng> he is making a huge fuss over a little thing, and in the process making this impossibly difficult for himself
[02:12] <ohoel> yes, and making the s/n ratio horrible.. ohwell.
[02:12] <ohoel> I guess I shouldn't bash enthusiasm
[02:12] <tseng> you should when he is making a mess of things
[02:12] <tseng> well, not just for the sake of it
[02:14] <ohoel> I'll leave that up to someone who'll be able to do that while still abiding to the CoC :] 
[02:14] <StevenK> Or someone who hasn't signed it yet.
[02:14] <ohoel> haha
[02:15] <tseng> I've already given him a pretty sound beating and it took one forum kid calling him a nazi to turn him off the path again
[02:15] <tseng> I'd love to give up, but he is very loud
[02:15] <tseng> hard to ignore
[02:16] <tseng> *shrug*
[02:16] <ryanakca> oh, tseng, your back
[02:16] <ryanakca> I hear you were having trouble packaging dopi?
[02:16] <tseng> I wouldnt call it trouble
[02:16] <tseng> it was probably entagged or something
[02:17] <ryanakca> entagged?
[02:17] <tseng> not all the libs were bundled
[02:17] <shawarma> That must be why I never log off IRC. That way, people can't talk about me on the channels while I'm not here.
[02:17] <tseng> entagged, C# tag reader
[02:17] <tseng> shawarma: I tell him the same when he is here.
[02:17] <shawarma> tseng: *G* That's true.
[02:17] <tseng> shawarma: would do the same for you.
[02:17] <tseng> :D
[02:17] <shawarma> tseng: I'm looking forward to it.
[02:18] <sistpoty> shawarma: I'm sometimes looking over the logs :P
[02:18] <shawarma> bddebian: The package managed to build! At least on i386.
[02:18] <shawarma> sistpoty: Wise man!
[02:18] <bddebian> shawarma: I know you told me.  I thought you were gonna show me a debdiff? :-)
[02:18] <shawarma> bddebian: axiom, that is. amd64 will probably be done in about an hour.
[02:19] <bddebian> shawarma: You uploaded it?
[02:19] <shawarma> bddebian: Well, i wanted to actually see it build it all the way to the end.
[02:19] <shawarma> bddebian: Er... not a MOTU yet, remember?
[02:19] <bddebian> shawarma: Aye, I thought maybe you got someone to do it for ya
[02:19] <shawarma> bddebian: http://www.linux2go.dk/edgy-merges/axiom-merge.diff
[02:20] <shawarma> bddebian: Oh. No, not yet. You can, if you're in the mood. :-)
[02:21] <shawarma> Well, I'm off to bed.
[02:21] <sistpoty> gn8 shawarma
[02:22] <shawarma> G'night, guys!
[02:22] <tseng> bye shawarma
[02:22] <ryanakca> diff -u "ubuntu source package" "debian source package"... what's the difference? couldn't you just run:  sudo pbuilder build debian.source.dsc    ??
[02:23] <sistpoty> ryanakca: debdiff comes in handy when there you can't judge from debian/changelog
[02:23] <ryanakca> I was wondering the difference between an ubuntu source pack and a debian source pack
[02:23] <sistpoty> s/there//
[02:24] <StevenK> shawarma: Your changelog looks ... wacky.
[02:24] <bddebian> Gnight shawarma, nice going
[02:24] <StevenK> shawarma: Read the diff, it should jump out at you.
[02:24] <sistpoty> ryanakca: I usually look at both changelogs first to see what the actual difference is... and if in doubt I'll use debdiff
[02:25] <ryanakca> ah, and could you make an ubuntu package out of a debian source?
[02:25] <sistpoty> ryanakca: yes... request a sync ;)
[02:26] <bddebian> Huh?
[02:26] <ryanakca> sistpoty: ???
[02:26] <ryanakca> sistpoty: I'm looking at some apps in Candidates... it says some of them allready have debian sources... so...
[02:27] <sistpoty> ryanakca: sorry, just a moment afk... back in a minute
[02:27] <ryanakca> kk
[02:30] <imbrandon> hrm .....
[02:31] <imbrandon> StevenK or bddebian got a sec, i got a semi problem
[02:31] <StevenK> imbrandon: I'm around, ish.
[02:31] <imbrandon> kk well i'm stuck on console so i cant paste much but ..
[02:31] <sistpoty> re
[02:31] <bddebian> imbrandon: I can try
[02:32] <imbrandon> can you look at the deps of gnome-control-center
[02:32] <StevenK> In dapper or edgy?
[02:32] <sistpoty> ryanakca: sorry I thought you were trying to merge packages
[02:32] <imbrandon> its saying not installable but , i downloaded the source
[02:32] <imbrandon> and
[02:32] <imbrandon> it has a dep i'm not familiar with
[02:32] <imbrandon> its hanging up on ........ *looks*
[02:32] <imbrandon> capplets-data
[02:33] <ryanakca> sistpoty: no... make a package... would a package pbuilt (new verb afaik!) from debian sources work in ubuntu? or are there small (or big) differences between them?
[02:33] <imbrandon> becouse the dep is = not >= but its written in debain/contol like i havent seen before and dunno how to fix
[02:33] <imbrandon> i'm i makin sense ?
[02:33] <StevenK> imbrandon: Try and install capplets-data
[02:33] <imbrandon> i did its the latest version
[02:33] <imbrandon> but it wants a later version
[02:33] <bddebian> imbrandon: What does the version dep look like?
[02:33] <StevenK> Ah.
[02:34] <imbrandon> one sec
[02:34] <bddebian> Oh we may not have it in yet
[02:34] <StevenK> Then you have to exercise patience, surely?
[02:34] <imbrandon> doh this sucks hehe i just dist upgraded my lappy ( and not i'm stuck on konsole )
[02:34] <imbrandon> err console
[02:34] <sistpoty> ryanakca: if it's *from* debian, it *should* build... (and thus work, exceptions make the rule)
[02:34] <imbrandon> heh
[02:34] <bddebian> imbrandon: This is the latest version in edgy: 1:2.15.90-0ubuntu1
[02:35] <imbrandon> yea
[02:35] <sistpoty> ryanakca: or do you mean a package built by the debian buildds?
[02:35] <imbrandon> and its wanting == 2.15.4
[02:35] <imbrandon> not >=
[02:35] <bddebian> Ah, that isn't good
[02:35] <imbrandon> right
[02:35] <imbrandon> thats my problem hehe
[02:36] <ryanakca> sistpoty: ok, so.. if I pbuild a pile of the apps in Cadidates that have debian sources ( ex: DSPAM ), and send them to a MOTU, would that be ok?
[02:36] <bddebian> imbrandon: That doesn't make any sense, they are from the same source package
[02:36] <imbrandon> i can build it localy to fix but whom do i ping .... also in the control it looks like ..... ${source:Version}
[02:36] <ryanakca> sistpoty: sources built of apps by debian that aren't in Universe/Multiverse yet...
[02:37] <imbrandon> bddebian: yea thats my delima , i dunno wth is wrong , just know i had to figure out irssi to get this far LOL
[02:37] <sistpoty> ryanakca: you mean s.th. like grab the sources from e.g. mentors.net and take them to universe? or did I misunderstand again?
[02:38] <sistpoty> ryanakca: or are you talking about upstream (or s.o. else) making a debian package, but having no relation to debian?
[02:39] <bddebian> imbrandon: capplets-data (= 1:2.15.90-0ubuntu1)
[02:40] <bddebian> imbrandon: From gnome-control-center depends
[02:40] <imbrandon> nope look in debian/control
[02:40] <imbrandon> well hrm hold leme try something
[02:41] <ryanakca> sistpoty: ok, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates, I'll pick a random package that allready has debian sources... ummm... Canon Pixma printer drivers. It has a "debian source package" allready. Could I download the source package, run "sudo pbuilder build canonpixma.dsc" and have a valid ubuntu .deb? and then be able to send that .deb to a motu for universe/multiverse?
[02:42] <sistpoty> ryanakca: ah... k... that depends
[02:42] <sistpoty> ryanakca: my experience with this is, that those apps packaged by s.o. (not related with debian) usually contain some packaging flaws
[02:43] <sistpoty> ryanakca: so you would maybe get a .deb that installs on edgy, but has packaging issues
[02:43] <bddebian> imbrandon: Package: gnome-control-center
[02:43] <bddebian> Architecture: any
[02:43] <bddebian> Section: gnome
[02:43] <bddebian> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, capplets-data (= ${source:Version}$
[02:43] <sistpoty> ryanakca: you'll need to check if everything is alright, then you can bring this to ubuntu
[02:44] <ryanakca> sistpoty: ok. revu-tools should help me... along with manual checking?
[02:45] <ryanakca> sistpoty: I should be able to get most of the errors... but some of them might slip threw... linda and lintian are good tools for checking as well?
[02:45] <sistpoty> ryanakca: you should always check manually... revu-tools only *help* while reviewing, but won't replace the human interaction (yet?) ;)
[02:45] <ryanakca> :)
[02:46] <ryanakca> ok, so a set of revu-tools, linda, lintian & I   should get them :)
[02:46] <sistpoty> ryanakca: yep... and finally the motu's reviewing it ;)
[02:46] <ryanakca> :)
[02:48] <sistpoty> sheesh... hugin is building and building and building... I somehow might have guessed it from "Warning: to build this, you need 300MB of available RAM at least" *g*
[02:50] <ryanakca> lol
[02:51] <imbrandon> bddebian: http://imbrandon.sytes.net/tmp.png   sorry cant copy and paste for soem reason
[02:51] <imbrandon> check that , its what i'm talkin about
[02:53] <bddebian> Ack, that makes no sense
[02:53] <imbrandon> heh yea
[02:53] <bddebian> I assume you have done an apt-get update? :-)
[02:53] <imbrandon> yup
[02:53] <imbrandon> just before that
[02:53] <imbrandon> that seems to be the only thing holding my dist-upgrade back
[02:54] <bddebian> imbrandon: You don't have any strange entries in sources.list do you?
[02:55] <imbrandon> nope just the mormal offical ones
[02:55] <imbrandon> normal*
[02:56] <bddebian> In my edgy pbuilder I don't get that
[02:57] <imbrandon> hrm
[02:57] <bddebian> What is in /var/cache/apt/archives for gnome-control*?
[02:59] <bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
[02:59] <Hobbsee> morning all
[02:59] <Hobbsee> hey bddebian :)
[03:00] <imbrandon> bddebian: nothing at all
[03:00] <imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
[03:00] <Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
[03:00] <bddebian> Ugh oh
[03:00] <bddebian> imbrandon: That's weird.  What archive are you getting it from?
[03:01] <imbrandon> archive.ubuntu.com
[03:02] <bddebian> I don't get it because I don't see where we have ever had 2.15.4
[03:03] <imbrandon> did it only build for i386 maybe or something ( i'm on ppc if that matters )
[03:04] <bddebian> Ahhh, yes.  15.90 failed on PPC
[03:04] <imbrandon> GAH
[03:04] <imbrandon> heh
[03:04] <imbrandon> ok this officialy sucks then heh
[03:05] <imbrandon> i'm afraid if i reboot i'll have ONLY console lol
[03:05] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: likely.  how fun :P
[03:05] <imbrandon> heh
[03:06] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: BTW congrats on MOTU.
[03:06] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: thankyou :)
[03:06] <imbrandon> heya TheMuso
[03:06] <TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
[03:06] <TheMuso> How goes it?
[03:07] <imbrandon> good, well kinda , heh my ppc lappy is hating life atm
[03:07] <bddebian> OK, WTF.  gnome-control-center 1:2.15.4-0ubuntu1 in powerpc (Release) but capplets-data is 1:2.15.90-0ubuntu1
[03:07] <bddebian> How are the binaries for capplets-data there?
[03:08] <imbrandon> heh
[03:11] <imbrandon> heh bddebian sooooo what to do , any ideas ?
[03:13] <bddebian> I'm sorry, I have to run for a bit, I'll be back in a few..
[03:14] <imbrandon> moins LaserJock
[03:15] <LaserJock> hi imbrandon
[03:16] <ajmitch> hello
[03:16] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[03:16] <ajmitch> oh dear, people are talking about gnome-control-center & capplets-data again
[03:17] <ryanakca> does ubuntu have the gnome clipboard daemon yet? (I've searched around, and haven't seen anything in ubuntu about it, but I don't feel like wasting 2-3 hours packaging another allready packaged package)
[03:17] <ajmitch> hint: capplets-data is arch: all, the amd64 & ppc buildds don't build it
[03:17] <ajmitch> things get out of sync
[03:17] <StevenK> And the i386 buildds are still pushing uphill, aren't they?
[03:17] <zul> hi
[03:17] <imbrandon> heya
[03:18] <ajmitch> StevenK: they've got OOo behind them now
[03:18] <StevenK> But there's still a backlog to get through.
[03:18] <ajmitch> yep
[03:18] <ajmitch> much smaller than it was the other day
[03:19] <imbrandon> ajmitch: so how long till it syncs you think ?
[03:19] <ajmitch> imbrandon: when it's done
[03:19] <imbrandon> heh yea , just sucks to be me
[03:20] <zul> heh...they have to get though one of mine as well..heh heh
[03:20] <ajmitch> gnome-panel failed to build on anything but i386 because of related problems
[03:29] <FunnyLookinHat> ryanakca, does that solve the issue of your clipboard data being lost if you close the window?
[03:29] <FunnyLookinHat> ryanakca, because I'm sure someone has bug reported it... and that'd be an awesome thing to fix
[03:30] <ryanakca> it's been bug reported into bugzilla long time ago
[03:30] <ryanakca> yes, it does
[03:30] <FunnyLookinHat> and synpatic isn't returning it as a package in universe?
[03:31] <ryanakca> aptitude isn't
[03:31] <FunnyLookinHat> dang.
[03:32] <FunnyLookinHat> is it in debian repos?
[03:32] <ryanakca> here's bugzilla bug, btw... I'll check   http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17960
[03:32] <Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 17960 in UNKNOWN "Persistent Clipboard Needed" [Enhancement,Resolved: invalid] 
[03:33] <FunnyLookinHat> no launchpad entry?
[03:33] <FunnyLookinHat> you could put it into edgy request
[03:33] <FunnyLookinHat> i dont think it's too late for that to be added
[03:34] <ryanakca> maybe... don't see it
[03:34] <ryanakca> FunnyLookinHat: I was going to package it... or attempt to :)
[03:34] <ryanakca> I'd have to edgy request?
[03:36] <FunnyLookinHat> no you don't have to
[03:36] <FunnyLookinHat> but if you weren't going to package it that would be the way to get it started I'm saying
[03:37] <ryanakca> kk... where do I do that?
[03:37] <FunnyLookinHat> launchpad.net
[03:40] <ryanakca> file a bug that gets triaged or ???
[03:40] <FunnyLookinHat> ummm
[03:40] <ryanakca> triaged to wishlist or ???
[03:40] <FunnyLookinHat> edgy wishlist
[03:46] <ryanakca> heh... I guess it's a (x)ubuntu only bug... we (kubuntu) have klipper that does the same thing... I wonder if xubuntu has something like it
[03:47] <FunnyLookinHat> I don't think it does.  XFCE is pretty lightweight
[03:47] <ryanakca> heh... gotta love kde...
[03:48] <ryanakca> and no, I'm not trying to start a flamewar
[03:49] <FunnyLookinHat> no no i understand what you are saying  : )
[03:50] <ryanakca> : )
[03:50] <ryanakca> reported
[03:51] <ryanakca> and ubugtu should announce it in #ubuntu-bugs any second now...
[03:51] <FunnyLookinHat> sweet
[03:52] <ajmitch> ryanakca: it probably tries not to poll all the time
[03:52] <ajmitch> or it gets email from ubuntu-bugs list
[03:52] <ryanakca> no... the delay... like 1minute or 5 minutes or ???
[03:52] <ajmitch> ask Seveas
[03:52] <ryanakca> 20 seconds... what intervals it checks
[03:55] <bmonty> ajmitch: how goes the SoC project?
[03:55] <ajmitch> hey bmonty
[03:56] <ajmitch> it's going ok
[03:57] <ryanakca> FunnyLookinHat: I'll keep you updated, I'm off to bed
[03:57] <bmonty> ajmitch: any code or packages I could take a look at?
[03:57] <ajmitch> packages soon :)
[03:57] <bmonty> ajmitch: I'm banging my head on trying to figure out the best way to get my LDAP-based account in to the admin group so I can use sudo :)
[03:57] <ajmitch> hehe :)
[03:58] <ajmitch> yeah I need to work on that management side of things
[03:58] <bmonty> I tried PAM's group module, but sudo doesn't seem to like it
[03:58] <hub> whois daemon@poleboy again?
[03:58] <ajmitch> sistpoty
[03:58] <hub> ah right
[03:59] <hub> sistpoty: the FTBS on hugin is probably due to changes request by other MOTU here yesterday
[03:59] <hub> sistpoty: I got asked to remove libgtk2.0-dev
[03:59] <sistpoty> hub: hehe... seems like you'll need that then?
[04:00] <hub> yeah, that's why I put it there
[04:00] <hub> initially
[04:00] <hub> in fact the build I did was with
[04:00] <sistpoty> hub: why couldn't you change s.th. to make it fail earlier than after 2h of compiling :P
[04:00] <Hobbsee> what's wrong with libgtk2.0-dev?
[04:00] <hub> Hobbsee: nothing
[04:00] <Hobbsee> right.
[04:01] <Hobbsee> wonder why you got asked to take it out then.
[04:01] <hub> Hobbsee: because he claim that wxgtk2.6-dev pulls it
[04:01] <hub> putting it back
[04:01] <hub> *sigh*
[04:01] <hub> I need more RAM
[04:02] <sistpoty> :)
[04:02] <imbrandon> !mol > imbrandon
[04:04] <Hobbsee> hub: ah.  easily checked though.
[04:04] <Hobbsee> hub: probably worth checking via apt-cache, not by compiling it again :P
[04:04] <hub> Hobbsee: well, the build takes a few hours because 3 or 4 files requires 300MB of RAM to build
[04:05] <Hobbsee> hub: true
[04:05] <Hobbsee> ouch
[04:05] <hub> if I have 1 GB, I can try
[04:05] <hub> I don't have
[04:05] <ajmitch> unfortunate
[04:05] <hub> maybe on the 1GHz machine
[04:05] <ajmitch> get Hobbsee to build it
[04:05] <hub> paradoxaly
[04:05] <hub> it has 768MB
[04:05] <hub> ajmitch: even the work machine do not. cheap bastards
[04:05] <Hobbsee> hub: i was more meaning "apt-cache show wxgtk2.6-dev | grep libgtk2.0-dev
[04:06] <hub> ajmitch: actually the work laptop has, but it run the wrong version of OS
[04:06] <Hobbsee> "
[04:06] <Hobbsee> hub: or even apt-get rdepends libgtk2.0-dev, if you preferred to do it that way, and see what brings it in.
[04:06] <hub> Hobbsee: I know
[04:06] <Hobbsee> hub: cool :)
[04:08] <hub> if only I could buy more ram
[04:08] <hub> I gues I'll have to go the MacGyver way
[04:08] <Hobbsee> hub: or use ssh into a higher spec'd machine.
[04:09] <hub> Hobbsee: I don't have any
[04:09] <Hobbsee> hub: plenty of people here do though :P
[04:09] <TheMuso> Edgy is not currently on it, but can be if desired.
[04:09] <hub> my PIII has 768MB
[04:14] <bddebian> re
[04:14] <bddebian> imbrandon: Still here?
[04:16] <hub> building a pbuilder on the PIII in the basement
[04:23] <imbrandon> bddebian:
[04:23] <imbrandon> yup
[04:25] <sistpoty> hub: after looking again, it's imo a bug in wxwidgets2.6: wx2.6-headers should depend on libgtk2.0-dev (since they imo include libgtk2.0-dev headers, not checked though)
[04:25] <hub> sistpoty: possibly
[04:25] <hub> I need to investigate that
[04:25] <hub> imbrandon: I have older junk
[04:26] <hub> imbrandon: my web/mail server is a PII 266 256MB
[04:26] <bddebian> imbrandon: Any luck?
[04:26] <sistpoty> (since the headers of wx2.6-headers include files from libgtk2.0-dev even)
[04:26] <imbrandon> hub: yea my web/mail/file server is a celeron 333 with 96mb ram ;)
[04:26] <imbrandon> bddebian: not yet, still building
[04:26] <sistpoty> bah... you know what I mean ;)
[04:27] <imbrandon> bddebian: i'm just building it localy for the moment till the buildd has a chance to build it
[04:27] <bddebian> imbrandon: I didn't look, do you know why it failed on the buildds?
[04:27] <imbrandon> bddebian: i think it just hasent hit the que yet
[04:28] <imbrandon> bddebian: no i dident
[04:28] <hub> actually my router is bigger
[04:28] <hub> but it run something I need to scrap
[04:28] <bddebian> imbrandon: LP shows the build failed
[04:28] <imbrandon> bddebian: ahh it might fail here to then , most likely
[04:29] <bddebian> imbrandon: Just a missing build-dep for libmetacity-dev
[04:29] <imbrandon> ahh cool thats an easy fix then
[04:29] <sistpoty> ok, I'm off to bed now... gn8 everyone
[04:30] <ajmitch> night sistpoty
[04:30] <bddebian> Gnight sistpoty
[04:30] <imbrandon> gnight sistpoty
[04:30] <imbrandon> good call /me fires up iTunes
[04:31] <imbrandon> bddebian: lemme finish up this mol config and i'll check on the build
[04:31] <ajmitch> how can I work in silence?
[04:31] <bddebian> imbrandon: NP
[04:31] <ajmitch> bddebian: waiting for something to build?
[04:31] <imbrandon> he was curious about my upgrade trubbles ;)O
[04:31] <ajmitch> aha
[04:31] <ajmitch> they're expected
[04:32] <imbrandon> yup i just had run into one i dident know what it was
[04:32] <ajmitch> you learn how to work around them
[04:32] <imbrandon> yea i have a working osx install so i can work in mol while i try to fix it ( thats what i'm doing atm )
[04:33] <ajmitch> heh
[04:33] <bddebian>  /usr/X11R6/include should be /usr/include/X11 not just /usr/include right?
[04:33] <ajmitch> maybe
[04:33] <bddebian> maybe?
[04:33] <ajmitch> depends if it's including <X11/whatever.h> in the source
[04:33] <bddebian> Oh aye
[04:33] <ajmitch> just try it & see
[04:34] <ajmitch> you've got enough boxes to build on
[04:34] <bddebian> I do?
[04:34] <ajmitch> yes
[04:35] <crimsun> if anyone's merge happy, please don't take wesnoth. I'm planning to use it tomorrow evening in the class.
[04:36] <ajmitch> right
[04:36] <ajmitch> forgot about that class
[04:36] <ajmitch> might be useful for me to learn a few things
[04:37] <hub> ok, I have 450MB of RAM free
[04:37] <hub> after killing X11
[04:37] <ajmitch> not bad
[04:37] <hub> on 768MB
[04:37] <hub> but it is a PIII 1GHz
[04:37] <imbrandon> ouch
[04:38] <hub> ajmitch: firefox suck
[04:38] <ajmitch> hub: galeon sucks more for memory usage
[04:38] <hub> ajmitch: same
[04:38] <hub> it is Gecko actually that blows
[04:38] <ajmitch> firefox at least manages to free more memory than galeon does
[04:38] <ajmitch> it must use gecko in a slightly saner way
[04:40] <hub> no idea
[04:41] <bddebian> Damn axioms build system is hideous
[04:41] <elkbuntu> hub, try epiphany?
[04:41] <hub> elkbuntu: konq
[04:42] <hub> same problem with epi
[04:42] <hub> elkbuntu: and given there is no migration path, I'm boned
[04:43] <elkbuntu> hub, use dillo. if it can suck much memory up, it'd be a near miracle ;)
[04:43] <hub> elkbuntu: can it import bookmarks AND password from firefox?
[04:44] <elkbuntu> hub, meh, who needs bookmarks.. and wtf do you keep your passwords in your browser???
[04:44] <hub> elkbuntu: because I don't want to have to reype relearn the gazillion one
[04:46] <elkbuntu> you might as well write them down on a piece of paper in front of you for a week so you learn them, then destroy the paper... it's a more secure way to compute :P
[04:47] <hub> ahah
[04:47] !lilo:*! Hi all. Restarting services for a quick test. Please bear with us.
[04:47] <hub> I get a new one each and every now and then
[04:49] <ajmitch> more australians.. :)
[04:49] <elkbuntu> hub, a friend of mine has a dozen or so 50char alpha-numeric-symbol passwords. he makes up a card with the real ones among some fake ones, and refers to that, he starts them with like A= or J= or whatver to help him know what one he's looking for
[04:49] <hub> aussies are everywhere
[04:50] <hub> ajmitch: I just wish I could come over for LCA this winter^wxsummer
[04:50] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, im usually just a spy/fly-on-the-wall in here
[04:51] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: it's ok, we'd like more MOTUs from this general area
[04:52] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, heh, all i've done is package up some fonts, its only got as far as seveas' repo :P
[04:52] <hub> the universe is eveyrwhere :-)
[04:52] <ajmitch> it's a start
[04:52] <ajmitch> now get working on some more
[04:54] <ajmitch> hello Yagisan
[04:54] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, im going to try do a real package if someone doesnt hurry their butts up to package sunbird.. although i sort of understand why it hasnt been done yet, it's a bit funky still, but.. i waaaant :P
[04:54] <Yagisan> G'day ajmitch
[04:54] <bddebian> hub: Merge gphotofs yet? :-)
[04:54] <hub> elkbuntu: you are raising the bar high
[04:54] <bddebian> Heya Yagisan
[04:54] <hub> bddebian: I filed a LP
[04:54] <bddebian> Ah, cool
[04:54] <hub> bddebian: crap, I forgot the mail
[04:55] <hub> to archive
[04:55] <ajmitch> I'd never ever suggest someone take sunbird as their first serious package
[04:55] <elkbuntu> hub, i know... im hoping someone else will do it
[04:55] <bddebian> Yeah, take axiom.. :-)
[04:55] <Lathiat> yeh sunbird sounds like it would be a world of pain
[04:55] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, but imagine how much i'd learn trying it :)
[04:55] <hub> Lathiat: like any XUL app
[04:55] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, even if i fail miserably
[04:55] <Lathiat> youd learn to hate packaging? ;p
[04:55] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: you'd learn new meanings of the word insanity
[04:55] <Lathiat> haha
[04:55] <Yagisan> How is everyone today ? I'm suffering from day 3 of bad food posioning :( I guess that's my punishment for wanting fish and chips on Wednesday.
[04:56] <Lathiat> Yagisan: ouch :/
[04:56] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, insanity was launching the ubuntu counter then getting it dugg while the counter is hosted on $1/month hosting
[04:56] <ajmitch> Yagisan: if you're still with us now, you'll live
[04:56] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: no, that's just foolishness
[04:57] <Yagisan> yes indeed. I collapsed at the doctors surgury. Was rather spectacular., I must say
[04:57] <Lathiat> elkbuntu: haha
[04:57] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, it survived! it's only sucked up 1.1gb of the 10gb bandwidth. :)
[04:57] <Lathiat> 10G/mo for $1?
[04:57] <Lathiat> thats not bad
[04:57] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, my saving grace was that i'm a sucker for minimalist design
[04:57] <elkbuntu> Lathiat, 3ix.org
[04:58] <imbrandon> would be cool to have like a stats=usernaem and see peoples comps listed
[04:58] <imbrandon> ;)
[04:59] <Yagisan> imbrandon, you want to see our comps ?
[04:59] <Yagisan> why ?
[04:59] <imbrandon> heh i said it would be neat
[05:00] <imbrandon> kinda like @home stuff
[05:00] <ajmitch> mainly just a laptop & an amd64
[05:01] <Lathiat> people liek browsing stuf flike that
[05:01] <imbrandon> me either realy , my xboxes are the only cool thing and i havent got them to run ubuntu yet only gentoo
[05:01] <Yagisan> I doublt people want me to spam my stats here, so pm me if you really want to know
[05:01] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, the linux counter doesnt provide that, i couldnt see the point of providing it for the ubuntu one
[05:02] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, try the 'other xubuntu', xbox ubuntu or whatever they call it. dunno if they've got an actual .iso released yet or not though
[05:02] <Yagisan> ajmitch, yet some of them are very useful on support channels (which this is not)
[05:02] <ajmitch> Yagisan: usually they're just for bragging rights
[05:03] <Yagisan> very true
[05:03] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, --> http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/XUbuntu
[05:03] <Yagisan> ;)
[05:03] <imbrandon> elkbuntu: yea i COULD do it just havent taken the time to get the ubuntu kernel to compile as an xbe and setup MOSIX
[05:03] <ajmitch> Yagisan: I run irssi on a box downstairs, it's not 'slow'
[05:04] <Lathiat> i think i retired the last of our ppro 180s the other day
[05:04] <ajmitch> but I wouldn't go compiling anything on it
[05:04] <ajmitch> it's a P2, so nice & powerful :)
[05:04] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:04] <Yagisan> I have a p2 233 running a full dapper install :)
[05:04] <Lathiat> i ran warty on a p233 laptop
[05:04] <ajmitch> yeah, it's running sarge
[05:04] <Lathiat> it had 190M of ram tho
[05:04] <Lathiat> was the saving grace as it were
[05:04] <ajmitch> Lathiat: I know what that pain is like
[05:05] <ajmitch> breezy on p2-400, 128MB RAM
[05:05] <Lathiat> ajmitch: it was usable
[05:05] <ajmitch> swapped like crazy with its little laptop drive
[05:05] <Lathiat> it wasnt great but it was a prefectly usable laptop
[05:05] <Lathiat> as long as i didnt start openoffice
[05:05] <ajmitch> heh
[05:05] <Lathiat> it was ok
[05:05] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:05] <ajmitch> I should rip the drive out of that laptop
[05:05] <imbrandon> abiword ;)
[05:05] <elkbuntu> my testing webserver that i have here used to have full hoary running on 350mhz, 160mb ram, 2.1gb hdd
[05:05] <Lathiat> yep
[05:05] <Lathiat> thats exactly what i used
[05:06] <Yagisan> pain - it runs well. turn on - make coffee - start ff - make coffee - start OO.o make coffee, take a dump, read newspaper - type letter, print ;)
[05:06] <Lathiat> abiword rocks
[05:06] <Lathiat> haha
[05:06] <elkbuntu> mind you it only had ~200mb space to move in afterwards ;)
[05:06] <ajmitch> now the box that I had MINIX on, in the cupboard... ;)
[05:06] <Lathiat> openoffice takes 15 seconds here
[05:06] <Lathiat> no a 512M p4 1.7
[05:06] <ajmitch> Lathiat: and on your little amd64?
[05:07] <ajmitch> with its 10K RPM drive?
[05:07] <Lathiat> i think its about 8 cold and 4 warm on that
[05:07] <imbrandon> i should put a bigger hdd in this ibook sometime it onyl has a 20gb
[05:07] <Lathiat> 10K rpm drive in raid0.. ;p
[05:07] <ajmitch> Lathiat: not bad, 9 seconds cold start on here
[05:07] <elkbuntu> Yagisan, we probably could have done without the 'take a dump' part
[05:07] <ajmitch> off the raid 5
[05:07] <imbrandon> lol
[05:07] <Lathiat> ajmitch: havent actually timed it in a while i might again later
[05:08] <Lathiat> well my storage drives are that
[05:08] <Lathiat> but yeh
[05:08] <Lathiat> fkakingg
[05:08] <Lathiat> gah
[05:08] <Lathiat> 300GB seagates
[05:08] <ajmitch> heh
[05:08] <Lathiat> they stopped making them!
[05:08] <imbrandon> hrm is there a FOSS "overall system" benchmark ?
[05:08] <Lathiat> they only make 320s now
[05:08] <ajmitch> Lathiat: what?!
[05:08] <ajmitch> ah
[05:08] <Lathiat> and i have 4 300s and had plans to get more....
[05:08] <Yagisan> elkbuntu, :) yes, but where would the humor be in that
[05:09] <Lathiat> to raid5
[05:09] <Lathiat> so im faced with like
[05:09] <Lathiat> buying more now
[05:09] <Lathiat> when i cant really afford it
[05:09] <Lathiat> with whats left in stock somewhere ;p
[05:09] <Lathiat> gah :(
[05:09] <ajmitch> oh well
[05:09] <imbrandon> i have 4 x 400 gb sata's in that 333 celeron file server heh
[05:09] <Lathiat> or just like not, and when i actually need the space (i dont atm) can the 300s and get new 400s or whatever is best buy at the time
[05:09] <elkbuntu> Yagisan... weirdo :P
[05:09] <ajmitch> Yagisan: you are
[05:09] <ajmitch> I at least have 3x250GB
[05:09] <Yagisan> thank you :)
[05:10] <Yagisan> but I prefer "gifted"
[05:10] <ajmitch> enough to build stuff on
[05:10] <ajmitch> 'spethial'
[05:10] <imbrandon> heh
[05:10] <elkbuntu> Yagisan, no, the other sort of 'weirdo'
[05:10] <ajmitch> Lathiat: unlike you, I don't carry a number of movies :)
[05:11] <Yagisan> elkbuntu, Micheal Jackson ?!? that's a bit unfair don't you think.
[05:11] <ajmitch> weird australians...
[05:11] <elkbuntu> Yagisan, yes, i should apologise...
[05:11] <Lathiat> i have.. many legal isos
[05:11] <Lathiat> or something
[05:11] <elkbuntu> to michael jackson
[05:11] <ajmitch> (is there any other sort?)
[05:11] <ajmitch> Lathiat: we won't ask any further
[05:12] <Lathiat> hrm
[05:12] <Lathiat> vino hates mes
[05:12] <Yagisan> Lathiat, I prefer to term it, mirroring the internet in-case of simulatious co-ordinated nuclear strike ;)
[05:12] <Lathiat> every so often it make smy X stop taking keyboard input
[05:12] <Lathiat> including locally
[05:13] <Lathiat> and i discovered that killing the screensaver is uh
[05:13] <Lathiat> not better than ctrl_alt_backspace
[05:13] <Lathiat> :)
[05:13] <Lathiat> Yagisan: heh
[05:13] <elkbuntu> ctrl+alt+backspace ftw!
[05:13] <hub> building way faster on this machine
[05:13] <hub> since it does nto hit the swap
[05:13] <hub> I should definitely put more ram in that laptop
[05:13] <ajmitch> Lathiat: so forget how long it takes you to start OOo, how long does it take to compile? ;)
[05:14] <Lathiat> whyd ont we find out
[05:15] <Lathiat> report back here next week? :)
[05:15] <ajmitch> it takes ~12 hours on the buildds
[05:15] <Lathiat> wow
[05:15] <ajmitch> (for i386)
[05:15] <Lathiat> thats awesome
[05:15] <Lathiat> what are the buildds?
[05:15] <Yagisan> wich ccache and distcc ??
[05:15] <ajmitch> I've seen between 14-17 hours for the accompanying OOo-l10n
[05:15] <Yagisan> s/wich/with
[05:15] <hub> it took the night on my build machine
[05:15] <ajmitch> Yagisan: unlikely
[05:15] <hub> no distcc
[05:15] <Lathiat> so like
[05:16] <ajmitch> Lathiat: I'd assume they're fairly fast, no indication of specs
[05:16] <Yagisan> I need to set-up a distcc setup for my pbuilders
[05:16] <Lathiat> who the hell _works_ on Oo?
[05:16] <ajmitch> doko
[05:16] <ajmitch> poor man
[05:16] <Yagisan> Lathiat, people that like pain ?
[05:16] <hub> Lathiat: paid hackers
[05:16] <Lathiat> Yagisan: no doubt
[05:16] <hub> Lathiat: like Gnumeric author
[05:16] <Lathiat> hub: craziness
[05:16] <Lathiat> Need to get 0B/283MB of source archives.
[05:16] <Lathiat> awesome
[05:16] <hub> I would do it for money
[05:17] <hub> btw, my company is looking for a moz/ooo hacker
[05:17] <hub> pacakger
[05:17] <Lathiat> hub: and like acluster of 32 8-way dual cor eopterons with 4G of ram each and like a raid0 of 32 disks?
[05:17] <ajmitch> Lathiat: why only 4GB, if they're opterons?
[05:17] <Lathiat> hell, 16GB, built it in ramdisk
[05:17] <Lathiat> (is that enough spcae?)
[05:17] <Lathiat> heh
[05:18] <ajmitch> maybe I still could... hm
[05:18] <ajmitch> just tweak BUILDPLACE in pbuilderrc
[05:19] <ajmitch> don't have to worry about the build dir getting cluttered across reboots :)
[05:19] <Lathiat> heh
[05:19] <Yagisan> I need to kill and rebuild my network soon. :(
[05:19] <Yagisan> ajmitch, building on tmfs is nice :)
[05:19] <hub> f*ck, no space left on device in pbuilder
[05:19] <Yagisan> s/tmfs/tmpfs
[05:19] <Lathiat> hub: woo :/
[05:19] <ajmitch> Yagisan: yeah, I've got enough RAM, might as well go for it
[05:19] <hub> to build hugin
[05:19] <Yagisan> ajmitch, just need a lot of swap for some "bigger" apps
[05:20] <hub> ok, time for bed
[05:20] <ajmitch> Yagisan: I don't build anything that would require *that* much
[05:20] <ajmitch> night hub
[05:21] <Yagisan> ajmitch, I find that when building on tmpfs you can often get a make -j3 going and maximise cpu usuage while not touching swap with a 2GHz + 1GB box or better
[05:21] <Yagisan> goodnight hub
[05:21] <Lathiat> how can you make pbuilder compile with a concurrency level?
[05:21] <bddebian> OK, I know I should know this but who is Daniel Stone?
[05:21] <ajmitch> it depends on what you're building
[05:22] <Lathiat> hes an X hacker
[05:22] <Lathiat> used to work on ubuntu stuff
[05:22] <ajmitch> bddebian: you really really should know daniels
[05:22] <Lathiat> is doing stuff for nokia or something i think now
[05:22] <bddebian> No longer?
[05:22] <Yagisan> Lathiat, you export some MAKE varibles or look at the debian rules IIRC
[05:22] <bddebian> ajmitch: Oh, daniels
[05:22] <Lathiat> yeh, daniels
[05:22] <ajmitch> I'm sure he smacked you round enough times
[05:22] <Lathiat> Yagisan: any idea which ones? :)
[05:22] <bddebian> ajmitch: Everyone smacks me around :'-(
[05:22] <Yagisan> Lathiat, when my head clears I'll remember
[05:22] <ajmitch> Lathiat: some source cannot handle concurrency
[05:23] <Lathiat> ajmitch: true
[05:23] <ajmitch> I've had to patch upstream for that before
[05:23] <ajmitch> I'd really like to be able to do that for the whole archive
[05:23] <Lathiat> heh
[05:23] <Lathiat> pbuilder si still calculating build-deps for OOo
[05:23] <Lathiat> i think i should just give up now
[05:23] <ajmitch> it'll take ages
[05:24] <ajmitch> damn, pbuilder copies in the apt cache if it can't hardlink
[05:24] <Lathiat> yeh
[05:24] <Lathiat> can you just turn the cache off?
[05:24] <Lathiat> its not much point when my mirror is http://localhost
[05:24] <ajmitch> I can't have that on tmpfs
[05:24] <ajmitch> yeah
[05:25] <Lathiat> how?
[05:25] <Lathiat> just comment it?
[05:25] <ajmitch> heh, funny
[05:25] <ajmitch> and /tmp isn't tmpfs anymore, how strange
[05:27] <ajmitch> probably a good thing,  it copied 2.1GB of packages to it
[05:29] !lilo:*! restarting services one more time
[05:29] <Lathiat> 3m19s to pbuilder avahi
[05:29] <ajmitch> not too bad
[05:29] <Yagisan> Lathiat, IIRC (and well I'm sick so I may not) setting MAKEFLAGS to -j3 and exporing it in pbuilder should help
[05:29] <ajmitch> how much of that was waiting for pbuilder-satisfydepends?
[05:29] <Yagisan> er
[05:29] <Yagisan> exporting
[05:29] <Lathiat> ajmitch: a bit
[05:29] <Lathiat> it takes quit ea while
[05:29] <ajmitch> I've had builds where about half was just working out build depends
[05:29] <Lathiat> well
[05:29] <ajmitch> yes, apt has slowed down a lot
[05:29] <Lathiat> openoffice got to 2 minutes
[05:29] <Lathiat> doign that
[05:30] <Lathiat> and i gav eup ;p
[05:30] <ajmitch>   APTCACHE=/var/cache/pbuilder/aptcache
[05:30] <ajmitch>               Specify the location that the packages downloaded by apt should be cached.  Setting this value to "" will cause caching to be turned off.
[05:30] <ajmitch> useful
[05:31] <Yagisan> ajmitch, indeed. esp when you already have something like apt-cacher set up :)
[05:31] <ajmitch> yes
[05:32] <ajmitch> worked better than trying to use squid last time
[05:32] <Yagisan> apt-proxy didn't like my p2-233
[05:32] <Lathiat> building avahi svn takes 1m14s
[05:33] !lilo:*! And one more try.... :)
[05:33] <Yagisan> Lathiat, you might find this intresting http://edseek.com/~jasonb/articles/pbuilder_backports/advpbuilder.html
[05:34] <Lathiat> Yagisan: oh, cheers
[05:35] <ajmitch> nasty hacks
[05:35] <Lathiat> yeh
[05:35] <Lathiat> they re a bit
[05:36] <Yagisan> yes, but, there is no standaised way to do make -j<some_big_number> yet
[05:36] <Lathiat> i find make -j works on most projects on my pc
[05:36] <Lathiat> but i tried that on my work pc
[05:36] <Lathiat> and well, it never came back
[05:36] <Lathiat> i think it got into permanant swapping hell
[05:37] <ajmitch> swap? what's that?
[05:37] <Lathiat> things for machines with 512M of ram :)
[05:37] <Yagisan> the think you hit with 6 pbuilders running at the same time
[05:37] <ajmitch> they exist?
[05:37] <Lathiat> my work pc :(
[05:37] <Lathiat> Yagisan: yeh i was doing that at one point
[05:37] <ajmitch> Yagisan: you need more RAM
[05:37] <Lathiat> my laptop did not like that
[05:37] <Lathiat> my pc isnt so bad tho
[05:38] <Yagisan> ajmitch, 1.5GB RAM + 16GB Swap
[05:38] <Lathiat> *
[05:38] <Lathiat> 16?
[05:38] <ajmitch> I don't bother building on my laptop usually
[05:38] <Lathiat> ajmitch: its all i used to have
[05:38] <ajmitch> laptops are great
[05:39] <Yagisan> Lathiat, I told tmpfs to use 15GB, and as all builds are ther (and other crap on occasion eg live tv capture) I thought 16GB would be enough
[05:39] <ajmitch> but their disks aren't generally fast enough for building stuff
[05:39] <Lathiat> Yagisan: ah right
[05:39] <Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh
[05:39] <Lathiat> it works tho
[05:39] <Lathiat> it just hurts along
[05:40] <ajmitch> bddebian: so you finished all the merges yet?
[05:41] <bddebian> ajmitch: No, just trying to catch up with Hobbsee :-)
[05:41] <ajmitch> should be easier from next week
[05:41] <bddebian> ?
[05:42] <ajmitch> afaik she's back at uni
[05:42] <bddebian> Ohh :-)
[05:42] <Lathiat> haha
[05:50] <ajmitch> I hate what appear to be spelling errors in package names
[05:50] <bddebian> heh
[05:51] <Laser_away> ajmitch: hmm?
[05:51] <ajmitch> python-uncertainities
[05:51] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[05:51] <LaserJock> that's a weird name to start with
[05:51] <ajmitch> sure
[05:51] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[05:51] <ajmitch> but it's got an extra i
[05:52] <LaserJock> hmm, is that package in Debian?
[05:53] <ajmitch> http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/python-uncertainities.html
[05:53] <ajmitch> the answer is yes
[05:53] <bddebian> python-aluminuminum
[05:53] <bddebian> :-)
[05:54] <ajmitch> now that's missing an i
[05:54] <LaserJock> hmm, so maybe those python folks aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed ;-)
[05:54] <ajmitch> some people apparantly think aluminium is spelt aluminum
[05:55] <Yagisan> ajmitch, they wouldn't happen to have a rather typical north american accent would they ;)
[05:56] <bddebian> And spell color correctly?
[05:56] <ajmitch> bddebian: how many elements on the periodic table end with 'ium' compared to just 'um'?
[05:57] <ajmitch> this package is silly..
[05:57] <Lathiat> im a little out of touch..
[05:57] <Lathiat> has the processed to sync packages changed other than harass elmo?
[05:57] <ajmitch> that's ok
[05:57] <ajmitch> yes
[05:57] <ajmitch> very much so
[05:58] <Lathiat> the Merging page proabbly shouldnt say "ping elmo" then? :)
[05:58] <ajmitch> see wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[05:58] <ajmitch> elmo will get very angry if you do that
[05:58] <Lathiat> In this case,
[05:58] <Lathiat>     *
[05:58] <Lathiat>       Update the bug status to "Fix Committed" and assign it to motureviewers if you haven't done so yet.
[05:58] <Lathiat>     *
[05:58] <Lathiat>       Ping elmo to sync the package (or ask a MOTU to do so).
[05:58] <Lathiat> i'll update that ;p
[05:58] <ajmitch> what page?
[05:58] <Lathiat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging
[05:59] <LaserJock> ack
[05:59] <ajmitch> sigh, another stale page
[05:59] <LaserJock> that's not good
[05:59] <ajmitch> probably needs redirected to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
[05:59] <Lathiat> ah
[05:59] <LaserJock> I might have to declare a "Clean up the wiki" day
[05:59] <Lathiat> its linked off https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[05:59] <Lathiat> :)
[05:59] <LaserJock> doesn't it?
[05:59] <LaserJock> I thought it was a redirect already
[05:59] <ajmitch> Lathiat: so fix it
[05:59] <Lathiat> so what we *really* need to do
[06:00] <Lathiat> is fix the link
[06:00] <Lathiat> hrm
[06:00] <Lathiat> that /Packages/Merging
[06:00] <Lathiat> is a bit bad
[06:00] <Lathiat> it has two approaches for starts
[06:00] <Lathiat> and doesnt have a clearly marked section on syncing etc
[06:00] <ajmitch> have fun cleaning up :)
[06:01] <Yagisan> :( mplayer just died in my dapper pbuilder
[06:02] <Yagisan> odd. It build in edgy
[06:03] <ajmitch> goody, the deb built
[06:05] <LaserJock> lets see, we have: MOTU/HowToMerge MOTUMergeTips MOTUToMerge MOTU/Merging MOTU/Packages/Merging MOTUMerging and Merging
[06:05] <bddebian> ajmitch: I was kidding man :-)
[06:05] <Lathiat> LaserJock: wow, awesome
[06:05] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you think that's a bit much?
[06:07] <LaserJock> luckily most of those are redirects, I think
[06:15] <ajmitch> this is entertaining using firefox with this font issue
[06:15] <ajmitch> it shows how well I can navigate launchpad with no text at all
[06:16] <Lathiat> haha
[06:17] <Lathiat> i tend to navigate launchpad via direct url
[06:17] <Lathiat> for the moest part
[06:17] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:17] <ajmitch> so do I, but filing a bug, subscribing ubuntu-archive, etc
[06:18] <Lathiat> nod
[06:19] <bddebian> Ack, I'm going to bed.  Gnight folks
[06:19] <LaserJock> hmm, what about using the email interface?
[06:19] <LaserJock> cya bddebian
[06:19] <ajmitch> bddebian: there are still merges to do
[06:19] <bddebian> ajmitch: No kidding :-)
[06:20] <bddebian> shawarma: If this thing finishes building OK, I am going to upload.  Again, nice work!
[06:27] <LaserJock> wow, they work in shifts now
[06:27] <LaserJock> ;-)
[06:27] <Hobbsee> hi LaserJock
[06:28] <ajmitch> hehe
[06:28] <ajmitch> LaserJock: any bets on how many uploads Hobbsee does today?
[06:28] <StevenK> From the comfort of my home, even.
[06:28] <ajmitch> 20+?
[06:28] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: well....i've got a decent-ish internet connection, but i dont really have much new stuff to upload, so...
[06:28] <LaserJock> ajmitch: hmm, not sure. I'd go for 15+
[06:29] <LaserJock> she's running out of merges to do ;-)
[06:29] <ajmitch> poor Hobbsee
[06:29] <Hobbsee> very.
[06:30] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I'm sure she can get on fixing the bugs in malone
[06:30] <Hobbsee> !
[06:30] <ubotu> I know nothing about ! - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu
[06:30] <Lathiat> hrm itd be nice if the MoM changelogs included the ubuntu changelog changes
[06:30] <Lathiat> haha
[06:30] <Hobbsee> Lathiat: it does?  if it hasnt died off.
[06:30] <Lathiat> like, it seems to lose the changes in the last ubuntu version
[06:31] <Lathiat> that said thats not really easy to just patch in
[06:31] <Lathiat> itd require some logic i suspect
[06:31] <ajmitch> Lathiat: no, it really does keep them, unless something changed recentl
[06:31] <Lathiat> hrm
[06:31] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:31] <Lathiat> well for example
[06:31] <LaserJock> it's in the merged tarball
[06:31] <StevenK> The src.tar.gz, that is.
[06:31] <LaserJock> I would like it in the REPORT though
[06:32] <LaserJock> shesh, kids these days!
[06:32] <crimsun> Lathiat: it doesn't keep changelogs for a package that has a ubuntu delta that is dropped when synced from debian, true.
[06:32] <LaserJock> ah yeah
[06:32] <LaserJock> syncing wipes it clean
[06:32] <Lathiat> oh, hrm your right
[06:32] <Lathiat> i wasnt reading down far enough
[06:32] <Lathiat> i suck
[06:32] <Lathiat> nevermind
[06:32] <ajmitch> we'll lart you later
[06:33] <StevenK> "I want this feature in MoM ..... oh nevermind, it already exists."
[06:51] <Lathiat> hrm gaim-meanwhile is now in gaim mainstream
[06:51] <Lathiat> but disabled because libmeanwhile is in universe
[06:51] <Lathiat> heh
[07:12] <ajmitch> well that worked..
[07:13] <ajmitch> what did you do to her?
[07:13] <StevenK> I jumped on her, duh.
[07:13] <Lathiat> haha
[07:13] <StevenK> It just happened she was pressing Ctrl-Alt-Backspace at the time.
[07:13] <ajmitch> crazy girl
[07:13] <ajmitch> she should know not to do that
[07:14] <Hobbsee> hah
[07:14] <Lathiat> the ubuntu stickers in the shipit shipments are awesome :)
[07:14] <StevenK> Ow!
[07:14] <Lathiat> wonder if everyone got those
[07:14] <Lathiat> or just the bigger shipments
[07:14] <ajmitch> no, I got a few
[07:14] <ajmitch> somewhere
[07:15] <Lathiat> silly thing is
[07:15] <Lathiat> they adjsuted my order (which is fine)
[07:15] <Lathiat> but i ended up with just as many 64bit as 32bit cds
[07:15] <ajmitch> I'm glad I have mine
[07:15] <Lathiat> which is totally pointless :/
[07:15] <ajmitch> I needed a dapper cd yesterday to get  my edgy box working :)
[07:15] <Lathiat> heh
[07:15] <Hobbsee> Lathiat: arent you supposed to send them to other people instead?
[07:15] <Lathiat> Hobbsee: hrm?
[07:15] <Yagisan> my post office was dumb. the "lost" my ubuntu cds for 4 weeks
[07:15] <Hobbsee> Lathiat: the cds you cant use.
[07:16] <Lathiat> well hopefully i'll find a home for them
[07:16] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: sure
[07:16] <Lathiat> but 64bit is a hrd sell
[07:16] <ajmitch> but then you find that you need them
[07:16] <Lathiat> where as i may as well order more 32bits now i know they'll be gone shortly
[07:16] <Yagisan> kept giving me a "pick up your parcel or we'll send it back" message
[07:16] <Yagisan> but they could never find it when I went there
[07:16] <StevenK> Muahaha
[07:16] <Lathiat> haha
[07:16] <Lathiat> class
[07:16] <Yagisan> Lathiat, where are you ?
[07:16] <StevenK> Yagisan: Is that Lid****e post office?
[07:16] <Lathiat> Yagisan: perth
[07:17] <Yagisan> StevenK, yes those turds
[07:17] <Yagisan> Lathiat, oh well. I could have used an amd64 cd
[07:17] <Yagisan> StevenK, they sold it about 2~3 months ago, and the new ownders are ablsolute crap
[07:18] <StevenK> They even get called 'ownders'
[07:18] <Lathiat> Yagisan: im more than happy to post you 20 or something if you like :)
[07:18] <Yagisan> StevenK, rude arrogant turds that damage your parcels deliberatly "if" they can find them
[07:18] <Hobbsee> much safer to rely on carrier pidgeons.
[07:18] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:18] <Yagisan> Lathiat, I only really need one. I usually dupe the myself
[07:18] <jsgotangco> i got my cds yesterday
[07:18] <Yagisan> Hobbsee, that wasn't a ship-it option
[07:18] <Lathiat> 13:18 quit_message = Read error: Carrier pigeon died mid-flight
[07:19] <jsgotangco> but i had to pay a customs fee (less than a dollar)
[07:19] <Lathiat> hrm i had no customs fees
[07:19] <Lathiat> what country?
[07:19] <Hobbsee> yeah, that's the one
[07:19] <Lathiat> heh less than a dollar
[07:19] <jsgotangco> Lathiat: Philippines
[07:19] <Lathiat> nearly not worth it
[07:19] <jsgotangco> yeah
[07:19] <Lathiat> would have been more in administrative overheads
[07:19] <Lathiat> to charge it to you
[07:19] <Lathiat> mylast lot of cds
[07:19] <Lathiat> were opened by customs
[07:19] <Lathiat> through the border
[07:19] <ajmitch> excellent
[07:19] <StevenK> Ah, jsgotangco forgot to bribe the right offical.
[07:19] <Lathiat> probably thought i was importing porn or something
[07:19] <Lathiat> or warez
[07:20] <Lathiat> im glad it had that nice little declaration on the side
[07:20] <ajmitch> Lathiat: considering who they were sent to..
[07:20] <StevenK> Lathiat: "We better check this out, it's a bunch of CDs, and it isn't going to an MP."
[07:20] <jsgotangco> StevenK: heh, its silly here, your order 10 or 100 CDs, they charge you the same they won't deliver it to your doorstep and have to go to a fararay central post office
[07:20] <jsgotangco> s/fararay/faraway
[07:20] <Yagisan> I used my business name for my ship-it order
[07:21] <jsgotangco> me too
[07:21] <jsgotangco> but i never get mine on my doorstep unless sent by a courier
[07:21] <Yagisan> I noticed that customes opens far less of my packages if it has the business name on it
[07:21] <StevenK> It's a bunch of CDs. I doubt it matters if Customs opens it.
[07:21] <Yagisan> my post off refuses to deliver *door-to-door* parcels even when that's what was paid for
[07:21] <Yagisan> s/off/office
[07:21] <Lathiat> Yagisan: dodge
[07:22] <jsgotangco> i never bothered to order a lot of CDs for Dapper. I'm sure i can find one in a local tradeshow every month heh
[07:22] <Hobbsee> that's normal.
[07:22] <Lathiat> i actually ran out of dapper cds
[07:22] <Lathiat> i still have about 10-20 of the others
[07:22] <Lathiat> and i ended up with an extra order of dapper cds by accident
[07:22] <jsgotangco> i keep a few for nostalgia
[07:23] <Lathiat> yeh i have 1 copy of each stashed away
[07:23] <Yagisan> Hobbsee, no it's not. those turds have the ems international contract, and I pay extra for them to cross the f*cking road, and press my doorbell
[07:23] <jsgotangco> yeah EMS shouldt even be a bother to people who avail it
[07:23] <StevenK> Yagisan: That involves walking, and seeing and moving their arms.
[07:23] <Hobbsee> and general effort.
[07:23] <StevenK> Tough stuff.
[07:23] <Yagisan> StevenK, all of which has been paid for
[07:24] <StevenK> Maybe it's because you don't tip.
[07:24] <Hobbsee> StevenK: and breathing.  dont forget the breathing.
[07:24] <Yagisan> EMS is so bloody expensive too!
[07:25] <Yagisan> at least in Japan when you send EMS even if it clears customs at 11pm, the politely knock on your door, aplogise for the delay, and deliver it to you at 11pm
[07:25] <antinobody> Breathing is hard
[07:25] <antinobody> I tried it once, could never get the hang of it
[07:26] <Yagisan> here, 4 days later the post office goes - "yeah, you got an ems parcel, but nobody was home" - even when I sat beside my letterbox the whole day I was waiting for it - and they never showed
[07:26] <Lathiat> antinobody: heh
[07:26] <Lathiat> Yagisan: post sucks often
[07:27] <antinobody> Lathiat: hi
[07:28] <ajmitch> Yagisan: get that degree, go to japan
[07:28] <Yagisan> ajmitch, working on it - working on it real hard. thats why I slacked off on most ubuntu stuff I have an interest in
[07:28] <antinobody> but then again, I don't know what EMS is either
[07:29] <Hobbsee> antinobody: here.
[07:29] <ajmitch> Yagisan: how long will it take to do it?
[07:29] <Yagisan> ajmitch, as of today 15 more months
[07:29] <antinobody> Hobbsee:  Australia?
[07:29] <Yagisan> antinobody, yep
[07:29] <ajmitch> I know you managed to lie your way out of about half of it
[07:29] <Hobbsee> antinobody: yes
[07:29] <Yagisan> ajmitch, :D
[07:30] <Yagisan> ajmitch, and if I can scam anymore I will
[07:30] <ajmitch> heh
[07:30] <Yagisan> ajmitch, they appear to run Windows 2000 ...
[07:30] <antinobody> Yagisan: Don't feel bad, at least you don't live in my country
[07:30] <ajmitch> poor sods
[07:31] <Lathiat> Yagisan: where are you?
[07:31] <Yagisan> antinobody, which is ? btw EMS is a ver expensive international courier service
[07:31] <Yagisan> Lathiat, Sydney.
[07:31] <Yagisan> s/ver/very
[07:31] <Lathiat> oh right
[07:31] <Lathiat> i knew that
[07:31] <Lathiat> but i forgot
[07:31] <antinobody> Yagisan: US.  Although Oregon specifically, which is a rather nice place.
[07:32] <Yagisan> ajmitch, well consider my "day job" and that apparently I'm ethically challanged ;)
[07:33] <ajmitch> Yagisan: that's what I was thinking
[07:33] <Yagisan> antinobody, don't worry. we'll be just as bad as you soon.
[07:34] <Yagisan> ajmitch, it will be more fun when I get an adsl2+ setup going. mm remote access
[07:35] <ajmitch> scary
[07:35] <antinobody> Are there any Ubuntu errands I can do, by chance?  Slowly I intend to become useful.
[07:35] <Hobbsee> antinobody: sure, bring us all some beer.
[07:36] <antinobody> Hobbsee: It's a bit of a walk, isn't it?
[07:36] <Hobbsee> antinobody: you asked for an errand.  i gave you one.
[07:36] <Hobbsee> antinobody: you didnt ask for how easy it would be.
[07:36] <antinobody> Hobbsee: fair enough
[07:36] <Yagisan> antinobody, I'd prefer an umeshu myself - just give me the whole bottle thanks
[07:36] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: don't you have enough there already?
[07:37] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: looks like there's some good stuff there to keep me occupied.
[07:37] <ajmitch> a few drops are all you need
[07:37] <StevenK> Yeah, well, given her body weight.
[07:38] <ajmitch> don't let her sniff the bottle?
[07:38] <crimsun> I'm pretty sure you don't want nasty beer from Oregon, so...
[07:38] <antinobody> I am in Portland, we do have more microbreweries than anywhere else around here
[07:38] <antinobody> SOMEWHERE there ought to be decent beer
[07:38] <antinobody> I don't drink though, so you don't want me picking it out
[07:38] <antinobody> who knows what I'd come up with
[07:39] <Hobbsee> haha
[07:40] <Yagisan> toilet water^bud ?
[07:40] <antinobody> I have to say, people give you really funny looks when you tell them it's your 21st birthday, and they offer you a drink, and you turn it down
[07:40] <Yagisan> wOOt I've lost alL my typing skills
[07:40] <antinobody> I think someone started talking about the apocalypse or something at one point
[07:41] <ajmitch> heh
[07:41] <Yagisan> antinobody, that's because they never offer anything good
[07:41] <antinobody> Yagisan: Probably, but remember, I've no way to know
[07:43] <antinobody> Yagisan: what is this degree your after?
[07:44] <Yagisan> antinobody, sure if cost < $10 then don't drink elseif cost > $10 && < $20 then politely sip else scoff it down :)
[07:44] <Yagisan> antinobody, Bachelor of IT
[07:44] <antinobody> I see, I think
[07:45] <antinobody> degrees are usually worded differently in other countries, I don't think we have any "Bachelor of IT"
[07:45] <antinobody> We'd call it something like "System's Management" I suspect
[07:45] <antinobody> same thing, I think
[07:46] <crimsun> it's called Computer Information Technology at U of Oregon.
[07:47] <Yagisan> antinobody, I call it "visa security" It could be a Bachelor of Poodle Haircare for all I care. That was the one I could get most credit on, so I picked it
[07:47] <antinobody> Yagisan: I see
[07:47] <antinobody> crimsun: is that whereabouts you are?
[07:48] <Yagisan> antinobody, I'm pragmatic, arn't I
[07:48] <crimsun> antinobody: no, I'm in NC. I simply looked at uoregon.edu.
[07:49] <antinobody> Yagisan: You are indeed.  I am something like a pragmatist, if someone injected a pragmatist with a horrible dose of idealism and stubborness, and then shook them really hard to mix them together
[07:50] <Yagisan> antinobody, I belive they call that a "wife" down here
[07:50] <crimsun> I believe they call that a wife anywhere.
[07:51] <Yagisan> antinobody, they know what they want, they are determined to get it - and it's your job to do it for them
[07:51] <antinobody> Well, I do like to cook, and I love taking care of children.  But I don't know of a lot of girls that would call a guy their "wife" regardless.
[07:51] <StevenK> Yagisan: You also seem to be describing Hobbsee.
[07:51] <ajmitch> StevenK: how many bruises have you collected today?
[07:52] <StevenK> Far too many.
[07:52] <StevenK> Ow, there's one more.
[07:52] <crimsun> didn't see that one coming. :-p
[07:52] <Yagisan> antinobody, oh you have kids too ? I love spending time with my kids, and cooking. I just don't like the cleaning part
[07:52] <antinobody> I did, you must be blind.  Or silly.  I'm only one, normally, but if I take out my contacts, I can be both
[07:52] <Hobbsee> heh
[07:52] <antinobody> Yagisan: I don't
[07:53] <antinobody> Yagisan: But I have brother's, and friends of children
[07:53] <antinobody> wait
[07:53] <Yagisan> antinobody, you know - alcohol can fix that ..
[07:53] <antinobody> Children of friends
[07:53] <antinobody> Yagisan: That might be true
[07:55] <antinobody> Yagisan: I have to admit, if I want to make children, I've been very lazy about it.  But seeing as how I'm two years into what will probably be around 10 years of school by the time I'm done
[07:55] <antinobody> I'm in no hurry
[07:57] <antinobody> Are there any errands that distance won't prevent me from doing?
[07:57] <Yagisan> antinobody, ouch. 10 years. I prefer to think of them as motu's-in-training. sure, it takes a while, but these new models are generally an improvement on their predecessors
[07:58] <crimsun> sure, there are 13698 open bugs. Have at.
[07:59] <antinobody> Yagisan: I may take a break after the two bachelors, and work for a few years, and then try to talk my boss into paying me to get a Ph. D
[07:59] <antinobody> Yagisan: But if that doesn't work out, yeah, 10 years
[08:00] <crimsun> you should make the gov't pay for your doctorate.
[08:00] <carthik> and yet you'll be underpaid
[08:01] <crimsun> massively
[08:01] <antinobody> carthik: A Ph. D in Environmental Engineering doesn't not get underpaid, believe it or not
[08:01] <antinobody> At least, I'm happy with what I'll make
[08:01] <carthik> when you are doing your Ph.D. I can bet you will be underpaid
[08:02] <crimsun> and I can second that.
[08:02] <crimsun> and Jordan can third, ...
[08:02] <antinobody> That's true
[08:02] <Yagisan> antinobody, remember - they will find a way to outsource you for only a few rupees an hour eventually
[08:02] <carthik> (but hey, you decide when to sleep/wake-up :) )
[08:02] <crimsun> (btw, did you really mean to say that you will be underpaid?)
[08:02] <antinobody> Yagisan: It's hard to outsource this kind of thing.  It isn't exactly systemactic
[08:03] <carthik> doesn't not -- tricky :)
[08:03] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[08:04] <antinobody> crimsun while I'm in school and working, yeah, I probably will.  If I'm in school and working.  Afterwards, no, not by my standards anyway
[08:04] <\sh> moins
[08:04] <antinobody> hello \sh
[08:04] <crimsun> antinobody: you're a lucky one, then. Best of luck to you.
[08:04] <Yagisan> G'day \sh
[08:05] <\sh> phew...to early for me...
[08:05] <antinobody> crimsun: Well, my other areas of study are in Politics and Economics.  The long-term goal is to make everyone lucky
[08:05] <carthik> there was an article about how a Ph.d. never makes financial sense...
[08:05] <crimsun> carthik: it's quite true IME.
[08:05] <antinobody> carthik: They usually don't.  I could make the same with a Master's, roughly
[08:05] <crimsun> maybe a doctoral degree in basket weaving is more profitable
[08:06] <carthik> crimsun, yes - and antinobody MS programs are the best "bang for the buck" academic program out there
[08:06] <crimsun> antinobody: nice. I nearly chose econ myself.
[08:06] <antinobody> crimsun: Well, I'm a political economics minor.  It's quite different from standard approaches to the subject
[08:07] <crimsun> a doctoral degree drastically narrows your eligibility in many sensese
[08:07] <crimsun> -e
[08:07] <antinobody> crimsun: It lowers your strict professional eligibility, but increases your clout as a contractor, and as a writer on whatever subject matter you work on
[08:07] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: dont die of shock.  i didtn actually end up uploading anything today.
[08:08] <StevenK> Yes. She got me to upload stuff instead.
[08:08] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: how disappointing. why have you been wasting a day?
[08:08] <antinobody> crimsun: so it's something of a gamble, but if I'm talented enough at what I do
[08:08] <Hobbsee> you know you like doing that for me, StevenK
[08:08] <antinobody> crimsun: I can get some flexibility out of this
[08:08] <antinobody> ajmitch: Asking me to fly to Australia to get her beer
[08:08] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's this weird thing called a holiday.
[08:09] <antinobody> Hobbsee: I've never heard of one of those, what're they like?
[08:09] <Hobbsee> antinobody: not sure myself.
[08:09] <Yagisan> antinobody, just like every other working day
[08:10] <antinobody> Yagisan: Sometimes they have to pay you more
[08:11] <Yagisan> antinobody, no, not anymore with "workchoices" here. Actually, if I where to hire staff under that - I could legally be a right bastard and remove almost every legal protection you have.
[08:11] <antinobody> I just realized that 80% of my reason for learning Spanish was so I could hear the lyrics of Mexican and Cuban musicians
[08:11] <antinobody> Yagisan: I wonder if that's anything like our "right to work" laws
[08:12] <antinobody> Yagisan: Oregon doesn't have one, but they're an effort to undermine unions
[08:12] <antinobody> Yagisan: I'm sorry, not an effort, they specifically and effective undermine unions
[08:12] <ajmitch> Yagisan: you love john howard, right? :)
[08:12] <Yagisan> antinobody, probally. Our PM likes to copy all the crap he can from the USA
[08:12] <Yagisan> ajmitch, politely - no
[08:13] <Yagisan> but I'll try not to be two political unless asked
[08:13] <Yagisan> s/two/too
[08:13] <antinobody> Yagisan: That's no good, our president get's all his ideas from a talking lampost that he doesn't realize the Vice President is running a speaker through
[08:13] <antinobody> Yagisan: Ha, my other major is Political Science.  I often forget there IS such a thing as too political
[08:15] <Yagisan> antinobody, well - I'm having a bit of trouble connecting it to the topic at the moment. I'm sure once I work out how to do that, I can bring it up ;)
[08:15] <antinobody> What was the topic at the moment again?
[08:16] <ajmitch> antinobody: topic? hah
[08:16] <Yagisan> antinobody, appears to be MOTU maintainers - hence I believe it is about all of us
[08:17] <antinobody> Yagisan: Didn't Hobbsee set the topic?  I'm sure she'll keep us in line.
[08:17] <antinobody> let us know if we get too far offtopic
[08:18] <antinobody> I must have a short memory
[08:18] <antinobody> I should have known better than that
[08:18] <Hobbsee> haha
[08:19] <StevenK> "Let me do this, what could possibly go wrong. *BANG*"
[08:19] <RichJ> bye bye
[08:19] <Hobbsee> hi RichJ
[08:19] <antinobody> hey Richj
[08:20] <Lathiat> anyone knwo what this would do in a shell script
[08:20] <Lathiat> rules=${rules#*,}
[08:20] <antinobody> Lathiat: I don't, does that help?
[08:20] <StevenK> Firstly, it's a bashism
[08:21] <StevenK> Lathiat: man bash, search for ${parameter#word}
[08:21] <Lathiat> hrm, cheers StevenK
[08:22] <Yagisan> Hobbsee, you know, it works much better when people are not expecting it
[08:23] <Hobbsee> haha, true
[08:23] <Yagisan> Hobbsee, I really need to set up some sort of kicking shortcut myself. Care to share any ?
[08:24] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: /kick user.
[08:24] <ajmitch> don't encourage her
[08:24] <ajmitch> ah, and she leaves...
[09:27] <shawarma> StevenK: Hey. You said my changelog looks wacky? I'm afraid I don't see it.
[09:28] <Gloubiboulga> hello MOTU world
[09:28] <shawarma> Gloubiboulga: Good morning!
[09:28] <shawarma> Oh, and good morning to everyone else!
[09:29] <Gloubiboulga> hi shawarma
[09:33] <Hikaru79> Hello =)
[09:50] <dholbach> good morning
[09:50] <Gloubiboulga> Hi Daniel
[09:54] <dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga - how's it going?
[09:54] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, fine, you?
[09:55] <dholbach> i'm ok - thanks, still a bit tired :)
[09:56] <Gloubiboulga> you work too much ;)
[09:58] <mkns> hi, i'm a new ubuntu user and was going to take a look at the bug fixing docs, but the link took me to a page that appears to be empty; either that, or I'm missing the obvious: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/BugFixing?action=show&redirect=MOTUBugFixing
[10:01] <Gloubiboulga> mkns, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Bugs seems to be the right page
[10:01] <mkns> ok, ta
[10:02] <mkns> that does indeed appear to have information on it
[10:02] <Gloubiboulga> :)
[10:13] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga, ping pong :)
[10:14] <Gloubiboulga> hi Arbiter
[10:14] <Arbiter> heya Gloubiboulga
[10:14] <Arbiter> fixed kdocker :)
[10:14] <Gloubiboulga> ok :)
[10:14] <Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, please be carefull with such comments ;)
[10:15] <Arbiter> hehehehe
[10:15] <Arbiter> :)
[10:15] <Arbiter> it's "# hand-made fixes" now :)
[10:15] <Gloubiboulga> sounds better
[10:16] <Arbiter> ;)
[10:16] <Arbiter> uhm... but
[10:16] <shawarma>    /win 3
[10:16] <shawarma> garh...
[10:17] <Arbiter> ... nothing... :)
[10:28] <Arbiter> slomo, ping
[10:28] <slomo> Arbiter: pong
[10:28] <Arbiter> slomo, would you like to review libgimp-cil? it should be nearly-fine now
[10:29] <slomo> Arbiter: give me the url and i'll look at it :)
[10:29] <Arbiter> hehe
[10:30] <Arbiter> wait a sec..
[10:30] <Arbiter> uhm wait...
[10:30] <Arbiter> i've noticed some problems reported by Gloubiboulga :)
[10:38] <Arbiter> and *woops* there's a new upstream release :)
[10:39] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga, * debian/control: only one entry needed
[10:39] <Arbiter> which entry?
[10:39] <Arbiter> c-sharp-compiler?
[10:40] <Gloubiboulga> hm
[10:40] <slomo> hm?
[10:40] <Gloubiboulga> I really wrote that? maybe it's debian/changelog... could you give me the url?
[10:40] <Arbiter> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2745
[10:40] <Arbiter> yup it's debian/changelog
[10:41] <Gloubiboulga> yes
[10:41] <Gloubiboulga> the "Initial release" entry is enough
[10:42] <Arbiter> yep, fixed
[10:42] <Arbiter> i'm going to try the new upstream release in pbuilder
[10:44] <Arbiter> s/try/buil
[10:44] <Arbiter> *build
[10:47] <Arbiter> pfff.... i hate those buggy Makefiles -.-'
[10:48] <Arbiter> bugs bugs bugs
[10:49] <Arbiter> the 0.10 version is more buggy than the 0.9 version -.-
[11:00] <slomo> Arbiter: talk with upstream
[11:11] <Arbiter> slomo, sure :)
[11:16] <Arbiter> slomo, but after my vacation :)
[11:20] <shawarma> Someone please refresh my memory: What's the difference between /usr/share/icons and /usr/share/pixmaps?
[11:21] <shawarma> (the first one to send me a 'diff -urwN /usr/share/icons /usr/share/pixmaps' gets larted!)
[11:25] <shawarma> Oh, well..
[11:26] <imbrandon> heh
[11:26] <imbrandon> diff -ruN ?  /me ducks
[11:26] <ogra> shawarma, icons holds icon themes, pixmaps holds random icons
[11:33] <dholbach> icons in icon themes can be looked up, have fallbacks, etc - are organized, whereas pixmaps are random 'pictures' (they don't even need to have certain sizes)
[11:51] <shawarma> dholbach: So... if a package just throws a single .xpm into /usr/share/icons, it's probably not doing the right thing?
[11:51] <dholbach> absolutely not
[11:52] <dholbach> not sure if .xpms get picked up at all
[11:52] <shawarma> dholbach: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=scummvm&version=edgy&arch=i386
[11:52] <dholbach> i doubt it
[11:52] <dholbach> if it's an app icon, it should probably be in   hicolor/48x48/apps   or something
[11:52] <dholbach> yeah, that's plain wrong
[11:53] <shawarma> thought so.
[11:53] <shawarma> Ok, thanks.
[11:58] <shawarma> dholbach: Hmm... so the correct fix would be to move the icon into hicolor?
[11:58] <dholbach> to remove it
[11:58] <dholbach> i doubt that .xpm work in a icon theme
[11:58] <shawarma> Oh, it's an SVG in the new package.
[11:58] <dholbach> that's better
[11:58] <shawarma> so it should go in the /scalable, of course.
[11:59] <dholbach> that should go to /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps
[11:59] <dholbach> and call dh_iconcache in debian/rules somewhere
[11:59] <dholbach> :-)
[11:59] <dholbach> thanks
[11:59] <shawarma> but "hicolor" is the fallback?
[11:59] <dholbach> yes
[11:59] <dholbach> that's fine
[11:59] <dholbach> that's where "random icon" goes
[11:59] <shawarma> Alright. Thanks!
[11:59] <dholbach> i doubt that any other icon theme has a scummvm.svg
[11:59] <dholbach> and if it does, it's probably meant to be
[11:59] <dholbach> so that's cool
[12:00] <shawarma> dholbach: dh_iconcache somewhere AFTER installing the svg, I suppose?
[12:02] <dholbach> shawarma: yeah
[12:03] <shawarma> dholbach: And the .desktop file should just have "Icon=scummvm" or should it have "Icon=scummvm.svg"?
[12:04] <dholbach> shawarma: scummvm would be more generic and would still work
[12:04] <shawarma> dholbach: Great.
[12:05] <ajmitch> umm
[12:05] <ajmitch> shawarma: are you touching scummvm now?
[12:06] <seaLne> anyone want to run reporty thing on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2796 ?
[12:06] <shawarma> ajmitch: Yes.
[12:07] <shawarma> ajmitch: i have a theory that most people do merges either from the top or the bottom, so to avoid doing merges anyone else is doing, I grab those in the middle. :-)
[12:08] <ajmitch> sigh
[12:08] <ajmitch> I did it today
[12:08] <ajmitch> that's why we ask
[12:09] <shawarma> Oh, well. No biggie. I haven't spent a lot of time on it, but now I know ALL about where to put icons.
[12:09] <ajmitch> shawarma: the names are on the list because that's the last person who touched it
[12:09] <ajmitch> it's the only way we avoid duplication at the moment
[12:09] <ajmitch> it's ok, just thought I'd let you know :)
[12:10] <shawarma> ajmitch: Sure. I guess i just assumed that since it was still on the list (ie. i hadn't done it already) there'd be a good chance you wouldn't do it today either. :-)
[12:10] <shawarma> er... that should read: "(ie. YOU hadn't done it already)"
[12:10] <ajmitch> most of the ones on the list for me, I've just done
[12:11] <shawarma> ajmitch: Ah, ok.
[12:12] <ajmitch> some of the merges assigned to me, I won't do
[12:12] <ajmitch> because the debian change is stupid & wrong
[12:12] <shawarma> Ah... The joy of having your name next to the "pornview" package. :-D
[12:14] <shawarma> It'd be cool if you could filter the stuff on merges.u.c to only show the ones that MoM merged without problems.
[01:18] <Toadstool> heya everybody
[01:29] <Yagisan> ajmitch, if/when I would like to be a real motu, I need to bug the community council right ?
[01:29] <ajmitch> CC for membership, TB for upload rights
[01:30] <Yagisan> ogra, oh you take bribes now ?
[01:30] <Yagisan> thanks ajmitch
[01:31] <ogra> Yagisan, i'm not in the CC ... ask elmo or Kamion :)
[01:31] <ajmitch> what, pay off elmo or kamion with a small child?
[01:33] <Yagisan> ajmitch, be creative. Those nigeran scams appear to actually make money. How hard can it be to make one of those ? >:)
[01:34] <Yagisan> ajmitch, apt-get install nigerain-email-maker ?
[01:36] <Yagisan> argh! my poor adsl connection is being hammered.
[01:37] <ajmitch> litereally
[01:39] <Toadstool> urg, two packages I uploaded FTBFS 'cause of temporarily missing deps... I hate that
[01:39] <Toadstool> aren't the buildds supposed to handle that?
[01:40] <Toadstool> and is there a way to ask for a rebuild without uploading a dummy version?
[01:40] <slomo_> Toadstool: yes, ask a buildd admin to give it back
[01:40] <Toadstool> ok thanks
[01:44] <Yagisan> slomo_, I think you should make mplayer depended on edgys version of libavcodec
[01:45] <slomo_> Yagisan: already happened with -0ubuntu4
[01:45] <Yagisan> slomo_, otherswise and attempt to backport to dapper will fail even though depencencies appear to be met
[01:45] <slomo_> oh you mean a versioned dependency?
[01:45] <Yagisan> slomo_, thats the one. yes it needs it
[01:46] <Yagisan> slomo_, I backported it for myself today and realised it needs a versioned dependency
[01:46] <slomo_> so tell me which version i need at least :) i have no idea, libavcodec/ffmpeg are a nightmare regarding compatibility
[01:47] <Yagisan> slomo_, whatever edgy is using right now. that's the one you need
[01:48] <Yagisan> slomo_, slomo_ it's 20060329-something
[01:48] <Yagisan> er. I can't type
[01:49] <slomo_> it will also work with older cvs snapshots
[01:49] <slomo_> but at least not with the one from dapper
[01:52] <Yagisan> slomo_, I don't know how old it will work with. I think it would be good to set a versioned depends so people understand it is not a trivial backport (because someone always wants it)
[01:57] <shawarma> Anyone care to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2803 ?
[02:38] <slomo_> siretart: could you please look at transcode for syncing from marillat? it completely doesn't build with your autotools hack and i have no idea why and why it was necessary ;)
[02:48] <siretart> slomo_: noted, will come to it probably not before tomorrow, though:(
[02:49] <slomo_> siretart: ok, thanks :)
[02:49] <slomo_> hm, i hope someone will clean NEW soon...
[02:56] <Kyral> hmm looks like I have to make a Debian VM now...
[02:56] <Kyral> someone filed a crash bug on Easychem...which means I gotta verify it
[03:15] <Kyral> Moh...
[03:16] <Kyral> anyone wanna confirm or deny this bug for me? I would but I'm halfway out the door for a weekend vacation?
[03:16] <Kyral> err ?/d
[03:17] <Kyral> Debian #380210
[03:23] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:28] <shawarma> Hi, bddebian!
[03:29] <bddebian> Heya shawarma
[03:29] <bddebian> shawarma: Storms killed my connection last night so the build didn't finish :-(
[03:29] <shawarma> doh...
[03:29] <shawarma> :-)
[03:30] <shawarma> I might have a tiny, tiny patch more for it.
[03:30] <shawarma> You know how the build takes really long?
[03:31] <bddebian> Oh yeah
[03:31] <shawarma> Well, the dude who packaged it felt it was a really good idea to put in: 'while sleep 1800 ; do echo tick; done ' in the build target in debian/rules
[03:32] <shawarma> so.. if that loop starts over just as the build finishes, it'll be 1800 seconds before at least pbuilder figures out that it's done.
[03:32] <bddebian> shawarma: I also updated standards to 3.7.2 and bumped debhelper build-dep to 5
[03:32] <shawarma> I didn't notice the first couple of times i built it, since it let i run during the night.
[03:33] <shawarma> "it let i" ?!?!!1!one!!
[03:34] <shawarma> Must be my keyboard acting up.
[03:36] <shawarma> hi hub!
[03:36] <shawarma> hub: care to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2803 ? it's the new rawstudio release (with all the proper GPL headers added)
[03:37] <hub> yeah I saw
[03:37] <hub> checking the diffs
[03:38] <shawarma> hub: Nothing in the packaging has changed apart from updated version numbers and dates in changelog and copyright. Everything else is upstream changes.
[03:38] <hub> debdiff diff the whole package, including sources
[03:38] <shawarma> hub: Exactly.
[03:38] <shawarma> hub: Just pointing it out.
[03:39] <shawarma> hub: ..since you already approved the packaging and only opposed to the lack of proper GPL headers in the source code.
[03:43] <Kyral> ugh headache
[03:44] <Kyral> Oh if anyone needs me I'll be away for the weekend...someone ask someone in the Ubuntu Science team to verfiy Debian #380210...otherwise I'll do it when I get back (It partains to EasyChem)
[03:45] <Kyral> if you need me.....hmm nevermind
[03:47] <ryanakca> FunnyLookinHat: ping
[03:48] <shawarma> FunnyLookinHat: Do you actually wear a funny looking hat?
[04:06] <bddebian> shawarma: Damn axiom is a pig :-)
[04:14] <shawarma> bddebian: Oh, yeah.
[04:15] <shawarma> bddebian: I've NEVER seen anything quite like it. It makes some of my packages I made years ago look pretty.
[04:19] <bddebian> Heh
[04:20] <bddebian> Oohh, layer 3 of 23 complete..
[04:28] <shawarma> bddebian: What hardware are you building it on?
[04:29] <bddebian> shawarma: I'm not sure on this machine at work.  I think it's only like a 600Mhz PIII Celeron :-(
[04:29] <bddebian> WHy the hell is there a tick after layer 9?
[04:30] <shawarma> bddebian: Because it's been building for 1800 seconds.
[04:31] <bddebian> eeks
[04:31] <shawarma> Yup.
[04:31] <shawarma> http://www.linux2go.dk/edgy-merges/axiom-merge.diff
[04:31] <shawarma> that updated patch removes it
[04:33] <bddebian> shawarma: Oh sure, make me build again :-)
[04:37] <shawarma> Would a build log from my build server be good enough?
[04:38] <shawarma> we can also just leave it in. The worst that can happen is that the build hogs the buildd for 1800 seconds too much.
[04:42] <bddebian> shawarma: No worries, I'm just giving you a hard time :-)
[04:47] <bddebian> heh
[04:52] <ryanakca> can I edit the Makefile directly? Patching confuses me...
[04:53] <azeem> ryanakca: edit Makefile.am or Makefile.in
[04:54] <azeem> ryanakca: you can edit directly if you want (if it is your own package, anyway), but there are good reasons for using patch systems
[04:55] <ryanakca> azeem: no Makefile.am Makefile.in in the source...  files in the source dir are:   gnome-clipboard-daemon.c  gnome-clipboard-daemon.h  main.c  Makefile  selection-data-list.c  selection-data-list.h
[04:55] <shawarma> ryanakca: Keeping the package is quite a lot easier if you use a patch system.
[04:55] <shawarma> ryanakca: And it's really not all that complicated.
[04:56] <ryanakca> brb
[04:57] <shawarma> shawarma: install dpatch, add dpatch as a build-depends of your package, and check the EXAMPLES section of 'man dpatch-edit-patch'.
[04:57] <shawarma> ryanakca: That was for you.
[04:57] <shawarma> shawarma: You really should stop talking to yourself!
[04:57] <azeem> ryanakca: looks like a very small package, so not using a patch system might be a worthwhile tradeoff (but nevertheless, learning how to use patch systems is essential for package maintenance)
[04:58] <bjp> hi everybody!
[05:02] <ryanakca> lol, back
[05:03] <ryanakca> azeem: so, don't use a patch system on this one, but on bigger packages, use one?
[05:04] <azeem> ryanakca: it's your decision
[05:04] <azeem> plus, I don't know whether there's maybe a MOTU policy on always using patch systems
[05:06] <bddebian> Supposedly if they are small changes, make them in the source and send a patch to Debian
[05:15] <ryanakca> bddebian: and if debian doesn't have thepackage?
[05:16] <bddebian> ryanakca: Patch it :-)
[05:24] <ryanakca> does *buntu-desktop have any universe in it, or is it only main?
[05:25] <^ohoel> only main, restricted
[05:25] <ryanakca> kk...
[05:25] <ryanakca> would this go into the category gnome or x11? http://members.chello.nl/~h.lai/gnome-clipboard-daemon/
[05:26] <^ohoel> that's not needed anymore
[05:26] <^ohoel> (btw)
[05:26] <ryanakca> no?
[05:27] <^ohoel> not when using gnome anyway
[05:29] <ryanakca> would it apply to xubuntu? it uses gtk... (i think)... and the daemon doesn't need gnome... just gtk
[05:32] <^ohoel> I'm not sure really, I thought X's clipboard facility was fixed
[05:33] <ryanakca> kk
[05:34] <^ohoel> as for category, freebsd keeps it in x11
[05:35] <ryanakca> kk
[05:48] <ryanakca> wonderfull... I just love it when an app comes with no ./configure or makefile or anything... just a pile of .cpp, .h, and .ui files
[05:49] <^ohoel> time to hone your autotool skills :)
[06:03] <VoX> quick question: where would i go to suggest a keyboard profile addition?
[06:06] <^ohoel> VoX: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+addspec
[06:06] <^ohoel> probably there, then announce it on the ubuntu-devel mailing list
[06:07] <^ohoel> VoX: or just file a bug on xkb-data, I think
[06:14] <ryanakca> ^ohoel: I thought that autotool was ./configure ?
[06:16] <^ohoel> automake, autoconf
[06:18] <azeem> ryanakca: ./configure is the user-visable part of autotools
[06:18] <^ohoel> you'll find http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/autobook/autobook.html a great resource
[06:18] <azeem> you will need to write the deveoloper part in order to autotoolize your package
[06:19] <ryanakca> kk
[06:25] <LaserJock> azeem: hi!
[06:32] <azeem> LaserJock: hey
[06:32] <azeem> a
[06:33] <LaserJock> azeem: was that email about gchempaint ok? I was talking to the guy and I thought I remembered you being interested in it.
[06:33] <azeem> sure
[06:33] <azeem> I've been talking to Daniel since
[06:34] <azeem> he's waiting for the next upstream release of gnome-chemistry-utils, which should merge some stuff, we'll upload it (and then gchempaint) to Debian then
[06:34] <LaserJock> is there some reason Leidert doesn't put his packages (in general) in Debian
[06:34] <azeem> he's not a DD
[06:34] <LaserJock> I see quite a few nice chemistry apps in there
[06:34] <LaserJock> it would be cool to get them in
[06:34] <azeem> and we both suck at whipping the other to get sponsoring done
[06:35] <LaserJock> ah, ok
[06:35] <LaserJock> hmm, it would be nice to have a debian-chemistry (aka debichem) group maintainership thing going
[06:35] <LaserJock> has he been using the debichem svn?
[06:36] <azeem> not yet :-/
[06:36] <azeem> I added him to the group
[06:36] <azeem> he said he'd use it for the next package revision, though
[06:36] <LaserJock> I kinda think if we just got down to it and started using it we could pump out some good stuff
[06:36] <azeem> yes
[06:36] <azeem> I've been putting most of the current stuff into it now
[06:37] <LaserJock> I want to ask Kyral about EasyChem. I don't think he is much interested in maintaining it anymore
[06:37] <LaserJock> we might grab it
[06:37] <azeem> I'll try to find time to write up some general document on how I think it should be used for collaborative maintainership
[06:37] <azeem> he was talking about it earlier today
[06:37] <LaserJock> ok, I'll check the backlog
[06:37] <azeem> 14:48 < Kyral> someone filed a crash bug on Easychem...which means I gotta verify it
[06:38] <LaserJock> k
[06:38] <LaserJock> well, I need to update my 2 packages in Debian (gausssum and plotdrop)
[06:38] <cbx33> Hi LaserJock
[06:39] <LaserJock> unfortunately plotdrop isn't exactly a chemistry app (gnuplot GTK frontend)
[06:39] <LaserJock> it would be nice to have them in the same place ;-)
[06:39] <bddebian> LaserJock: Oh, plotdrop is yours?
[06:39] <azeem> LaserJock: hide
[06:39] <bddebian> I was going to merge/sync with debian
[06:39] <LaserJock> bddebian: hmm, maybe let me do that. I was going to do a new upstream release soon
[06:40] <LaserJock> might as well sync it once
[06:40] <bddebian> LaserJock: OK, great
[06:40] <LaserJock> I'm wondering how hard it will be to get is sponsored though.
[06:41] <bddebian> LaserJock: azeem would be happy to do it for you ;-P
[06:41] <LaserJock> I've only uploaded once back in Janurary (ChrisH did it)
[06:41] <LaserJock> I imagine these poor DDs are tired of sponsoring so many packages
[06:41] <azeem> I don't sponsor any other people regularly right now, np
[06:41] <azeem> they're all DD nows :)
[06:41] <azeem> eh, DDs now
[06:41] <LaserJock> hah
[06:42] <LaserJock> well, then I can be your non-DD slave ;-)
[06:42] <LaserJock> and bddebian is my slave
[06:42] <LaserJock> so we have a good chain-of-command going ;-)
[06:42] <bddebian> Heh
[06:42] <azeem> can I be bddebian's slave for Ubuntu?
[06:43] <bddebian> My slave?  I don't do anything :-(
[06:43] <LaserJock> yeah right
[06:43] <LaserJock> hmmm
[06:43] <LaserJock> maybe we can swap slaveship
[06:43] <LaserJock> I can be azeem's Debian slave
[06:43] <LaserJock> and he can be my Ubuntu slave
[06:44] <LaserJock> mwuahahaha
[06:44] <azeem> actually, I thought about applying for universe upload rights at the next TB meeting
[06:44] <bddebian> Nice
[06:44] <bddebian> +1 from me
[06:48] <LaserJock> noooooo
[06:48] <LaserJock> then my slaveship model will not work
[06:48] <LaserJock> I will *always* be your slave then ;-)
[06:50] <bddebian> heh
[06:54] <bddebian> Gads axiom sucks
[06:54] <LaserJock> bah, remove it from the repo ;-)
[06:54] <LaserJock> that'll fix it :-)
[06:55] <bddebian> Nah, shawarma fixed it but it takes FOREVER to build :-)
[07:01] <cbx33> LaserJock, gisomount is still in the NEW queue :p
[07:02] <Toadstool> re
[07:03] <Gloubiboulga> heya Toadstool
[07:03] <LaserJock> cbx33: yeah, the i386 queue especially is backed up
[07:03] <Toadstool> hi Gloubiboulga
[07:03] <Gloubiboulga> hi all :)
[07:03] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool, Gloubiboulga
[07:03] <Toadstool> hey bddebian
[07:05] <bddebian> Gloubiboulga: What should I do with this prismstumbler, any idea?
[07:05] <Gloubiboulga> bddebian, does it work?
[07:06] <bddebian> Gloubiboulga: I still have a small build issue and the pst file still defaults to eth0 but it builds :-)
[07:06] <bddebian> Even though I --prefix=/usr several of the files still end up in /usr/share/foo..
[07:06] <Gloubiboulga> this damn hardcoded eth0...
[07:08] <Gloubiboulga> I don't know what we should do with it
[07:24] <bddebian> Gloubiboulga: OK, maybe I'll just pass it up to the Debian maintainer, thanks
[07:25] <Gloubiboulga> bddebian, ok, he might be happy to have your debian/rules file ;)
[07:26] <bddebian> Aye :-)
[07:26] <bddebian> See you later folks, going "golfing" :-(
[07:26] <Toadstool> heh
[07:27] <Toadstool> one of my English teachers used to say "life is hard and then you die" :p
[07:29] <cbx33> Toadstool, harsh but true
[08:11] <dholbach> have a nice weekend everybody!
[08:12] <zul> c ya dholbach
[08:12] <LaserJock> cya dholbach
[08:12] <Kyral> Oh LJ
[08:12] <LaserJock> Kyral: yeah
[08:13] <Kyral> there is a bug in Debian BTS on EasyChem, I'm leaving for the weekend so I don't have time ATM to setup a Debian Qemu image to verify it, if you have time could you help and try to verify it?
[08:13] <Kyral> Debian #380210
[08:14] <Kyral> Normally I would take care of it, but like I said, going away for the weekend with no Net (if computer at all)
[08:17] <Arbiter> ahhh i'm about to go for my vacation
[08:18] <Arbiter> i'll be back in 3 weeks
[08:18] <Arbiter> see you guys :)
[08:19] <zul> i wish i had a vacation...oh who am i kidding i would be doing ubuntu stuff
[08:19] <LaserJock> Kyral: well, I was going to ask you about Easy Chem
[08:19] <LaserJock> Kyral: do you still wish to maintain it in Debian?
[08:19] <LaserJock> zul: exactly
[08:19] <LaserJock> that's all I do
[08:20] <Kyral> LaserJock: why not...I'll have to setup a Debian Qemu image but why not
[08:20] <azeem> or a chroot
[08:21] <Kyral> Eh Qemu images are easier to maintain if you don't have a Debian system like me
[08:21] <LaserJock> Kyral: well, I was just wondering if you were tired of it or not ;-)
[08:22] <Kyral> I haven't thought abotu it until now because no serious bugs had been filed
[08:22] <LaserJock> sure,  I'm in the same boat
[08:23] <ryanakca> where do desktop files get copied to?
[08:23] <crimsun> usr/share/applications/
[08:23] <ryanakca> ty
[08:23] <Kyral> Oh whats the Debian Policy on Ruby programs
[08:24] <ryanakca> crimsun: do I just put it into debian/ and it automagicly gets copied over or do I need to edit Makefile?
[08:25] <crimsun> Kyral: http://pkg-ruby.alioth.debian.org/ruby-policy.html/index.html is the closest I see to a "Policy"; try asking lucas when he's online.
[08:27] <crimsun> ryanakca: you need to copy it into debian/$package/usr/share/applications/
[08:27] <Kyral> heh I have too many little Ruby apps lying around
[08:27] <Kyral> including THERuSH
[08:28] <ryanakca> so, in makefile, under install: "cp gnome-clipboard-daemon $(DESTDIR)/usr/share/applications"? or manually before running debuild?
[08:28] <crimsun> ryanakca: no, in debian/rules
[08:42] <shawarma> hmm... what's up with all the extra files here: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2803
[08:43] <shawarma> oh, right. The REVU admins can trigger a build of the package?
[08:51] <Amaranth> how do i make a daemon start as it's own user? i've got the user creation stuff from the cups package, just need to figure this last part out
[08:51] <Amaranth> is it some magic start-stop-daemon does?
[08:51] <shawarma> Amaranth: Yes.
[08:51] <Amaranth> so just having the user is enough to make it work?
[08:51] <shawarma> Amaranth: yup
[08:52] <Amaranth> cool
[08:52] <shawarma> Amaranth: well, you need to tell it which user, of course.
[08:52] <Amaranth> uh
[08:52] <Amaranth> that's what i was asking :)
[08:52] <Amaranth> i didn't think cups did anything special for that
[08:52] <shawarma> Amaranth: Ah. i thought you were just looking for how to make stuff run as non-root.
[08:52] <Amaranth> shawarma: I am
[08:53] <Amaranth> shawarma: For my package
[08:53] <shawarma> Amaranth: Well... start-stop-daemon has some options to make that happen.
[08:53] <shawarma> Amaranth: you tell it which user, and it does the magic.
[08:53] <shawarma> Amaranth: Cups does som e magic of its own.
[08:53] <shawarma> Amaranth: it has to start as root to bind to port 631.
[08:53] <shawarma> Amaranth:  and then it drops root privs.
[08:54] <shawarma> Well, I'm off for dinner.
[08:54] <shawarma> again, if any MOTU's get bored, can you please take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2803 ?
[08:54] <shawarma> Cheers!
[08:58] <kmilo> Hi
[09:01] !lilo:*! Happy system administrator appreciation day, to all and sundry :)
[09:10] <LaserJock> hi kmilo
[09:37] <LaserJock> hmm, do you think Keybuck would be around or is it weekend time for hi already?
[09:39] <crimsun> if he's not online, it's likely he's otherwise-occupied
[09:39] <LaserJock> hmm
[09:40] <LaserJock> I was just wondering if they were going to sync from Debian anymore before the Universe Freeze
[09:40] <LaserJock> MOTU Science has 42 outdated packages, of which 33 are just straight syncs (no ubuntuX versions)
[09:41] <LaserJock> I wonder if I should just bug ubuntu-archive about the important ones
[09:41] <ogra> you are worring about that *now* ?
[09:42] <LaserJock> hehe
[09:42] <LaserJock> of course ;-)
[09:42] <ogra> universe freeze is in 2 months
[09:42] <LaserJock> now, there are a few packages that could really use some time in Ubuntu
[09:42] <ogra> you have plenty of time
[09:42] <LaserJock> s/now/no/
[09:42] <LaserJock> but for the most part the are just Debian revision bumps
[09:43] <LaserJock> *they
[09:43] <LaserJock> I can't type today
[09:43] <LaserJock> ogra: what else should I be doing, writing documentation and figuring out impossible specs? ;-)
[09:43] <ogra> i think there is enough time for mass syncs of the most packages ... and enough time to care for the ones that need manual love ...
[09:44] <ogra> nah :)
[09:44] <ogra> do what you like, i was just astonished that you try to simmon keybuk on a friday evening for that :)
[09:44] <ogra> *summon
[09:45] <LaserJock> haha
[09:45] <LaserJock> well, if I don't get a life then neither should he :p
[09:45] <ogra> haha
[09:45] <ogra> i dont have a life by choice
[09:45] <ogra> :)
[09:46] <LaserJock> oh, I don't know about that ogra
[09:46] <LaserJock> big house, gf, nice car ;-)
[09:46] <ogra> but no tie to do anything with either of them ;)
[09:46] <crimsun> wait, what are you rambling about? All three of you (LJ, ogra, keybuk) have S.O.s.
[09:46] <ogra> *no time too
[09:47] <crimsun> the only person who has an excuse to have no life is me, since I have no attachments ;-)
[09:47] <Amaranth> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${python:Depends}
[09:47] <Amaranth> grr
[09:47] <crimsun> Amaranth: do you build-dep python?
[09:47] <crimsun> (or python2.4)
[09:48] <Amaranth> python-all-dev isn't enough? (it pulls all that in)
[09:48] <ogra> Amaranth, http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
[09:48] <ogra> some things changed recently
[09:48] <Amaranth> ogra: that's what i'm going through
[09:48] <Amaranth> i keep getting "/bin/sh: [[: not found" when my debian/rules is called too
[09:49] <Amaranth> also getting crazy crap like E: willowng source: build-depends-indep-should-be-build-depends cdbs
[09:49] <ogra> yeah, you are using bash syntax
[09:49] <crimsun> right, [[ is a bashism
[09:49] <ogra> we dont use bash anymore :)
[09:49] <Amaranth> No I'm not?
[09:50] <crimsun> (he means something, e.g., Makefile, is using \[\[, which is a bashism)
[09:51] <Amaranth> http://rafb.net/paste/results/IOUUJC50.html
[09:51] <Amaranth> no Makefiles , distutils
[09:51] <ogra> http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2001/04/shell.html
[09:51] <ogra> might help
[09:51] <Amaranth> the only shell script in my code is what i just linked
[09:51] <Amaranth> every time debian/rules gets called during the build i get that error
[09:52] <ogra> hmm
[09:52] <Amaranth> so it's cdbs or pycentral using the bashism
[09:52] <ogra> hmm
[09:52] <LaserJock> yucky
[09:53] <Toadstool> there's a bashism in python-distutils.mk iirc
[09:53] <Amaranth> ...
[09:53] <Amaranth> fuck?
[09:53] <Toadstool> i already reported it to the guy who takes care of it
[09:53] <crimsun> yes, line 51
[09:53] <Toadstool> yep
[09:53] <crimsun> cdbs_selected_pycompat := $(shell if [[ -e debian/pycompat ] ] ; then cat debian/pycompat; fi)
[09:54] <Toadstool> that's it
[09:54] <ogra> argh
[09:54] <ogra> thats evil
[09:54] <crimsun> I <3 bashisms that cause ftbfs
[09:54] <Amaranth> so, uh, is that causing my problem or is it that python-all-dev doesn't pull in enough stuff to make ${python:Depends} exist?
[09:54] <ogra> Toadstool, did you tell doko ? or someone else ?
[09:55] <Toadstool> yep
[09:55] <LaserJock> did Debian go to dash too?
[09:55] <ogra> nope
[09:55] <crimsun> LaserJock: not yet afaik
[09:55] <ogra> but all DDs i talked to would love to ...
[09:55] <LaserJock> so all the bashims are stuff Ubuntu has to fix?
[09:56] <LaserJock> or at least forward upstream and hope :-)
[09:56] <ogra> nope, debian had an audit for bashisms before sarge ...
[09:56] <crimsun> LaserJock: since we're using dash and Debian isn't, well, that's implicit unfortunately.
[09:56] <ogra> what we are looking at are all new bashisms introduced since then
[09:56] <crimsun> I've already filed bugs for bashisms fixed in Edgy
[09:56] <Amaranth> so what do i do? :)
[09:56] <Toadstool> they're planning to switch to dash too in debian
[09:56] <ogra> send doko some beer to fix it ? or send him a patch and no beer
[09:57] <Amaranth> i dunno shell scripts
[09:57] <Amaranth> i suppose i could just drop cdbs
[09:57] <Toadstool> this is a one-line patch :)
[09:57] <Toadstool> [[ ... ] ]  -> [ ... ] 
[09:57] <crimsun> the bashism could be fixed in a Ubuntu bzr branch of cdbs
[09:58] <crimsun> (then pushed back to Debian)
[09:58] <Amaranth> i'm impatient so i'll do more work :P
[10:01] <Toadstool> anyway it should be fixed in the next Debian cdbs release, I already talked about it with Marc "duck" Dequnes, he takes care of the new python-distutils.mk
[10:02] <crimsun> excellent.
[10:03] <Toadstool> grah!
[10:04] <Toadstool> I should really stop using ^W when trying to erase a word in xchat :p
[10:05] <Toadstool> crimsun: there's a bug report too, bug 53563
[10:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53563 in cdbs "[Edgy]  Bashism in python-distutils.mk" [Low,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53563
[10:06] <LaserJock> low priority?
[10:06] <LaserJock> i guess it doesn't affect anybody but those silly cdbs users ;-)
[10:08] <ogra> yeah
[10:10] <Amaranth> cdbs and distutils == everyone can make a package :)
[10:10] <Toadstool> :)
[10:10] <Amaranth> well, until this python policy change anyway
[10:11] <Amaranth> used to be the hard part was figuring out the depends
[10:12] <Sp4rKy> hi
[10:13] <Toadstool> hey Sp4rKy
[10:15] <ogra> Amaranth,
[10:15] <ogra>  cdbs (0.4.44ubuntu2) edgy; urgency=low
[10:15] <ogra>  .
[10:15] <ogra>    * fix bashism in python-distutils.mk.in to fix ftbfs for python packages,
[10:15] <ogra>      closes (Malone 53563)
[10:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53563 in cdbs "[Edgy]  Bashism in python-distutils.mk" [Low,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53563
[10:15] <ogra> wait until it built
[10:16] <Toadstool> cool :)
[10:16] <Sp4rKy> hey Toadstool
[10:16] <Sp4rKy> :)
[10:16] <Amaranth> ogra: cool
[10:17] <Sp4rKy> i'm packaging audacious and e_utils (for custom repository)
[10:17] <ogra> Amaranth, thast why you have a mentor ;)
[10:21] <Sp4rKy> i'm lucky
[10:21] <Sp4rKy> i've two metors :)
[10:21] <Sp4rKy> mentors*
[10:22] <ogra> really ? whats your SoC project ?
[10:24] <Toadstool> ogra: Sp4rKy didn't know you meant *SoC* mentor ;)
[10:24] <ogra> heh
[10:24] <Sp4rKy> :/
[10:24] <Sp4rKy> sorry :p
[10:25] <ogra> no need to feel sorry :)
[10:25] <LaserJock> MOTU Mentors > SoC mentors ;-)
[10:25] <ogra> yeah
[10:26] <Toadstool> heh
[10:51] <Sp4rKy> go to sleep
[10:51] <Sp4rKy> good night guys :)
[10:59] <LaserJock> wow, Debian has 346 orphaned packages (25 in the last week)
[10:59] <LaserJock> that's tough to keep up with
[11:00] <LaserJock> does the QA team have to take care of all of those until they are adopted?
[11:02] <azeem> they remove the more useless/broken ones after a while
[11:07] <LaserJock> if only I had more time :/