[05:01] <mpool> stub: hi?
[05:53] <stub> mpool: Hi
[05:54] <stub> mpool: I guess launchpad-bazaar is the best place for the bug report.
[05:55] <stub> mpool: Make sure you say how urgent it is so it can be prioritized (I think Kiko does this atm? Or is it matsubara?)
[06:30] <mpt__> Gooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[07:05] <mpool> hello mpt
[07:15] <mpt> hi mpool 
[08:42] <sivang> morning
[08:59] <mpt> hi sivang, sorry I was asleep earlier
[09:02] <sivang> mpt: nahh, 's okay had nothing important.
[09:09] <ddaa> Good morning
[09:16] <lifeless> hi ddaa 
[09:22] <sivang> wow, cool diagrams for spec dependency
[09:31] <ddaa> lifeless: mpool: we have an issue with the bzrlib fetcher: bug 53825
[09:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53825 in launchpad-bazaar "branch puller does not properly sanity checks branch data" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53825
[09:31] <ddaa> it looks like the fetcher was optimised not to process all the data it pulls across branches
[09:32] <ddaa> that causes the branch puller to break its contract and no longer ensure that all the mirrored data is valid (by the definition of that version of bzrlib)
[09:33] <ddaa> to keep the system simple to understand and provide guarantees to the current and future tools that use the data on the supermirror, we want the branch puller to keep providing that guarantee
[09:34] <ddaa> that means we need either:
[09:34] <ddaa> * an option on the fetcher to make it sanity check all data it pulls across
[09:34] <lifeless> ddaa: err, how about it is just considered a bug in bzr ?
[09:34] <lifeless> because thats all it is
[09:34] <sivang> hey ddaa , lifeless 
[09:35] <ddaa> lifeless: I'm entirely happy to consider that a bug in bzr
[09:35] <ddaa> I just wanted your input on considering it that
[09:35] <lifeless> I think doing checks bzr does not do is not in general helpful
[09:35] <ddaa> lifeless: it's a about early failure
[09:35] <lifeless> I think let pulling be bzr's responsibility and treat failures like this as, well, bugs.
[09:36] <lifeless> doing what you describe is up to 50 times slower than allowing bzr to decide what checks it needs
[09:36] <ddaa> I think it makes sense for the fetcher to have some level of trust on the data it moves around, so it can be faster
[09:36] <lifeless> or worse
[09:36] <lifeless> whats happened here is that jelmers plugin appears broken
[09:37] <lifeless> and has inserted bad data into bzr, which has been preserved intact
[09:37] <ddaa> but the puller has some special paranoid requirements and is willing to pay extra for guaranteed-valid data.
[09:38] <ddaa> lifeless: it's probably a bug in jelmer's plugin, but it's also a bug in the branch puller (or bzrlib) that said data was moved around without failing.
[09:38] <lifeless> your point that pull should not propogate dud data is valid
[09:38] <lifeless> your proposal is overreacting IMO
[09:38] <lifeless> it will suck major arse
[09:39] <lifeless> single branch pulls will take hours or days
[09:39] <ddaa> lifeless: that's why I expect that those checks will not be enabled by default
[09:39] <ddaa> hu?
[09:39] <lifeless> it will suck for the branch PULLER
[09:40] <lifeless> you'll need to do 10K xml parses for a single pull of a new bzr branch for instance
[09:40] <lifeless> which is very unsustainable
[09:41] <ddaa> lifeless: what do you propose?
[09:41] <lifeless> as I said
[09:41] <lifeless> if it happens, file a bug in bzr
[09:41] <sabdfl> BjornT: https://help.launchpad.net/MaloneHighlights
[09:41] <sabdfl> please could you and bradb correct any mis-statements there?
[09:41] <lifeless> there will always be occasional bugs, and the fix for the bug will be to ensure that particular form of defect cannot occur again
[09:42] <ddaa> lifeless: ack that
[09:43] <ddaa> lifeless: there's another issue though. It's not clear how launchpad should report errors if we allow the branch scanner to fail. Jamesh and I expect that displaying branch scanner failures on the branch page would be confusing, and people would read them as branch puller errors.
[09:44] <ddaa> in the current situation, it just fails silently, which I think is slightly better, but cause people to file bugs (jelmer just filed one)
[09:45] <ddaa> at least, it's silent to the user, we get an error in the email logs
[09:45] <lifeless> so, one way is for the puller to file a bug saying 'branch appears corrupt'
[09:45] <ddaa> you mean the "scanner" right?
[09:45] <lifeless> s/bug/failure log
[09:45] <lifeless> yes
[09:45] <lifeless> scanner
[09:46] <lifeless> give a useful error to the usr
[09:46] <lifeless> *user*
[09:46] <lifeless> and generate an OOPS report for us.
[09:46] <lifeless> or possibly better, file a 'branch appears corrupt. OOPS-ID-xyz' report
[09:46] <lifeless> then it will get analyzed by the automatic oops reports logic
[09:47] <lifeless> *and* theres an indication to the user that we are looking into it.
[09:48] <ddaa> I like the oops idea, but I do not like the automatic bug report idea, as invalid branches like that tend to come in clusters
[09:48] <lifeless> not a bug report
[09:48] <lifeless> a branch report
[09:48] <ddaa> okay
[09:48] <lifeless> in the branch
[09:48] <ddaa> right
[09:49] <BjornT> sabdfl: sure, i'll take a look at it and will discuss it with bradb
[09:49] <ddaa> "This branch was mirrored successfully, but it appears corrupt (_OOPS-ID-xyz_). We are looking into the problem."
[09:50] <lifeless> sure
[09:50] <ddaa> sounds good, it move the cryptic stuff out the page so it should not look too much like a mirror failure (users do not read _anything_)
[09:52] <ddaa> Can probably restrict that error handling to BzrError in BzrSync
[09:54] <sabdfl> thanks BjornT. also, could you add a partial screenshot to each feature? by partial screenshot I mean crop a screenshot of the relevant part of malone and point out the relevant data on the page?
[09:59] <BjornT> sabdfl: well, i think someone else can do it better and faster than i can, but i'll make sure it gets done.
[10:23] <sivang> so, for the patch I'm writing, I need to touch xx-specs-11-setdistrorelease.txt and add a clause to xx-specs-02-creation.txt. I am going to convert them both to testbroweser, is there a general rule to know which lost test credentials were used in each tests? (in the old format, there is only the base64 authentication data)
[10:24] <sivang> this is malone 52038
[10:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52038 in blueprint "Please rename "Braindump" state to "New"" [Wishlist,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52038
[10:25] <sivang> s/lost//
[10:27] <sabdfl> BjornT: thanks!
[10:27] <jamesh> sivang: if you decode the base-64 in the test, you should have a good idea of which browser class to use
[10:28] <BjornT> sivang: since it's base64 you can find it out doing: 'some-base64-encoded-string'.decode('base64')
[10:28] <sivang> jamesh: ah, right , thanks dudes ;)
[10:28] <jamesh> sivang: if the login is test@canonical.com, then it will be clearest if you use user_browser.  If it foo.bar@canonical.com, it will be clearest if you use admin_browser
[10:28] <jamesh> otherwise just use browser and set the login credentials
[10:31] <SteveA> good morning
[10:31] <SteveA> BjornT, jamesh: meeting in #launchpad-meeting please
[10:47] <ddaa> SteveA: I feel burning  pain In my left forearm when typing
[10:47] <ddaa> Currently hunt-and-pecking with just the right hand
[10:48] <ddaa> Requesting sick day away from computer
[10:49] <ddaa> Having me seen frantically typing for the past week, I think you can understand what happened
[10:49] <SteveA> ddaa: continuing on #canonical
[10:54] <SteveA> mpt: hello
[10:54] <SteveA> mpt_: hello_
[10:54] <mpt_> hi SteveA 
[10:55] <SteveA> mpt_: james and bjorn will be looking at improving our forms infrastructure this week
[10:55] <SteveA> you can help them by talking with them in #launchpad-meeting about it, and highlighting issues and open bugs on this that would be good to have addressed
[10:55] <SteveA> such as tab navigation in a form
[10:55] <mpt_> ok
[10:55] <mpt_> as in, now?
[10:56] <SteveA> sure.  we're meeting for lunch in 1 hour, and after lunch we'll be planning the week from my place.
[10:56] <SteveA> so if you have time now, that would fit in well
[11:10] <sivang>  /join #launchpad-meeting
[11:24] <sivang> jamesh: one of the tests uses the 'carlos' credential, is admin_browser completely encompasses all of it's permissions? (I see on the README.txt it's also rosetta admin, ubuntu translators, testing spanish team).
[11:25] <jamesh> sivang: use "browser", and call browser.addHeader() to set the credentials
[11:25] <jamesh> sivang: there are a few other page tests that do this which you could grep for
[11:27] <mpt> jamesh, PQM told me that my monospace change landed, but it doesn't seem to have shown up in arch-commits@ and I don't know why
[11:35] <sivang> jamesh: sure, I've already spotted some few that do that.
[11:37] <jamesh> mpt: looking at the branch on sodium shows your branch merged as r3846
[11:38] <mpt> ok, cool
[11:39] <mpt> I think you said you wanted to put it on demo.launchpad.net
[11:42] <jamesh> mpt: yeah.  I'll look at doing that later today
[11:59] <stub> mpool: Do you want the total number of people who own branches registered with Launchpad, or the total number of people using the sftp hosting service?
[12:00] <stub> mpool: Also, how should I count teams? Ignore them, or count them like a person?
[12:04] <lifeless> stub: they are separate metrics - we want both
[12:04] <lifeless> for branches registered, teams are people, please count them as such and dont count their members
[12:05] <lifeless> for branches hosted on the supermirror, I think counting the team members makes sense
[12:05] <sabdfl> it would be nice to know that as a separate number, actually
[12:05] <sabdfl> "how many teams are collaborating on bound branches using the supermirror"
[12:05] <lifeless> and for logins to the sftp server, we probably want to count the number of unique individuals logging in
[12:05] <lifeless> sabdfl: agreed
[12:06] <SteveA> with all these stats, I'd like to link the raw stat with a wiki page so we can develop commentary -- explain our understanding of what the graph means
[12:06] <SteveA> and how it applies to understanding how we're doing
[12:06] <SteveA> stub: any ideas on that?
[12:07] <stub> Why use the wiki? I can just stick that in the descriptions of the cricket graphs if people need the commentary.
[12:08] <SteveA> well
[12:08] <SteveA> I expect various people to have insights about the commentary, about what the graph means to us
[12:08] <SteveA> and I expect this understanding to develop over time
[12:08] <lifeless> crikiwiki
[12:09] <stub> We should look out for a better solution than cricket for this btw. It is the best tool I'm aware of to do this, but it isn't the best fit and a pita to configure.
[12:09] <SteveA> python bindings for open office org ;-)
[12:09] <stub> (maybe roll our own once we have a better understanding of what we need)
[12:11] <lifeless> stub: crickets magic is in rrdtool
[12:11] <lifeless> doing a different frontend that is easier to configure would be very easy
[12:12] <stub> lifeless: I know. Just insert time and inspiration ;)
[12:13] <lifeless> well then, bend over :)
[12:14] <stub> that is in speer action, not inspiration.
[12:21] <cprov> good morning, guys !
[12:21] <sivang> morning cprov !
[12:22] <cprov> sivang: hi, how are you ?
[01:11] <Yannig> Hello everybody
[01:12] <Yannig> Spads> I answered you :)
[01:13] <Spads> Yannig: thank you.  let me check
[01:13] <Spads> hmm, I don't seem to have the mail
[01:14] <Yannig> I answered to mailman@lists.ubuntu.com :(
[01:14] <Spads> ohhhh
[01:14] <Spads> let me look for it
[01:14] <Yannig> "You can switch to l10n-oci (and do what we told yesterday: mass-registering and archives transfer). I still don't know how but I'll find a way to update this in Rosetta."
[01:16] <Spads> thank you
[01:16] <Yannig> You're welcome
[01:16] <Yannig> Tell me when it's done :)
[01:18] <Spads> will do
[01:35] <Yannig> Spads> I'm setting it up
[01:36] <Spads> Yannig: I only just got it fixed up
[01:36] <Spads> you're quick!
[01:36] <Spads> but yes, I moved subscriptions and archives over
[01:36] <Yannig> I received a mail telling me about a new registration ;)
[01:36] <Spads> And I have deleted the old list
[01:36] <Yannig> Great :)
[01:37] <Yannig> I "just" have to find-replace everything in Rosetta now :P
[01:37] <Yannig> Isn't there a script for that? :D
[01:37] <Spads> Sorry about that.  But thank you for migrating to the new list.
[01:37] <Spads> I'm not the person to ask about rosetta, I'm afraid.
[01:39] <Yannig> Don't worry :)
[01:42] <sivang> cprov: I'm fine thanks, you? 
[01:43] <cprov> sivang: too late, I'm not fine anymore ;)
[01:43] <cprov> sivang: eh, I'm fine, thank you 
[01:44] <sivang> cprov: hehe
[02:16] <sabdfl> SteveA: no sign of carlos or danilo, are they OTL?
[02:17] <SteveA> danilo missed his flight, and he'll be around very shortly
[02:17] <SteveA> he called me last night
[02:17] <SteveA> carlos is on vac
[02:27] <sivang> so, I use broswer.open and browser.url instead of the ugly "GET .... HTTP/1.1 200 Ok" ?
[02:27] <sivang> (to verify that a page has been accessed successfuly)
[02:30] <BjornT> sivang: yes. and where it makes sense, you use browser.getLink('some link').click() instead of .open()
[02:33] <sivang> BjornT: cool, thanks.
[03:35] <SteveA> kiko: hello
[03:35] <kiko> morning!
[03:35] <kiko> how are things on your end SteveA?
[03:35] <SteveA> good morningn to you
[03:36] <SteveA> things are fine.  james and bjorn and I had lunch in town, and now we have a schedule of things to look at this afternoon
[03:36] <sivang> morning kiko
[03:36] <kiko> that's great to hear. remember my pleas for FormLayout mmkay?
[03:36] <sivang> hey SteveA 
[03:36] <SteveA> do you have anything specific you're looking for in a form layout?
[03:36] <SteveA> hi sivan
[03:38] <SteveA> the first thing bjorn and james are doing is to look through mark's https://help.launchpad.net/MaloneHighlights page
[03:38] <SteveA> making various improvements and putting in some appropriate screenshots
[03:47] <sivang> I'm converting xx-specs-02-creation.txt to test browser, I've ran into <input name="field.status-empty-marker" type="hidden" value="1" /> , it appears in the old format as the data, but surely I do not need to include or touch in the testbrowser test? (it's not something a user can interact with)
[03:48] <matsubara> sivang: nope, just grab the elements that are visible in the page.
[03:49] <sivang> matsubara: cool, thanks
[03:59] <mpt> flacoste, hi, I think the stuck branch on PendingReviews is yours
[03:59] <flacoste> mpool: it is, i've fixed it, thanks
[04:00] <kiko> flacoste, your review is long! I'm still finishing it from friday :)
[04:02] <flacoste> kiko: yeah, i know it is quite a large patch, but most of it is new or moving of tests
[04:28] <sivang> so, the old xx-specs-02-creation.txt contained a field.priority which seems to be gone now, how come this wasn't refelcted in the test?
[04:34] <sivang> do I simply 'make schema' to put my DB back to a 'clean' stage to run some test caluses from a story by hand?
[04:35] <sivang> s/stage/state/
[04:37] <matsubara> sivang: yes, and apparently with the old test POSTing a field.foo that doesn't exist in the form is ignored.
[04:37] <sivang> matsubara: oh man, just lke a million reaons to move to test browser :)
[04:38] <Yannig> Waouh !
[04:39] <Yannig> My Karma was multiplied by 10 during my holidays!
[04:39] <Yannig> It's great not to do anything :)
[04:40] <kiko> yeah
[04:45] <Yannig> Spads> You may also want us to change our team-name?
[04:45] <Yannig> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-oc
[04:46] <kiko> Yannig?
[04:46] <Spads> That's not my department, really, Yannig 
[04:46] <Spads> I'm in charge of the mailing lists
[04:46] <Yannig> Fair enough :)
[04:46] <Spads> but if you want to change your team name, sure
[04:46] <Spads> I won't stop you :)
[04:47] <Spads> I'm not really sure why more people don't use 639-2 instead of 639-1
[04:47] <Yannig> kiko?
[04:47] <Yannig> Spads> I didn't even know about it :(
[04:48] <kiko> do you guys want to do something?
[04:48] <Yannig> Spads> By the way: it seems the mailing list does not like my accents :(
[04:48] <Spads> I'm kind of miffed that the LANG env var doesn't use it
[04:48] <Spads> Yannig: where?
[04:48] <Yannig> kiko> Spads asked me to change l10n-oc into l10n-oci for the Occitan mailing-list
[04:49] <Yannig> Spads> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-oci and https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/
[04:49] <mdke> jordi: around?
[04:49] <Yannig> mdke> On holidays I think
[04:49] <Spads> Yannig: did the old one do this?
[04:50] <mdke> thanks Yannig 
[04:50] <kiko> ah
[04:51] <Spads> Yannig: did the old list do this?
[04:51] <Yannig> Ups
[04:51] <Yannig> Missed something
[04:51] <Yannig> Spads> I don't remember
[04:51] <Spads> I think this is a general mailman bug
[04:55] <kiko> stub, mdz would like passwords to actually be able to see the cricket graphs :)
[04:58] <stub> kiko: Passwords haven't changed since the last time I sent them to the mailing list :-P
[04:58] <kiko> stub, but I don't think mdz is subscribed to them
[05:01] <sivang> later, going out for some hours
[05:02] <stub> kiko: sent
[05:02] <kiko> thanks
[05:02] <mdz> stub: Current values not available: Architecture x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi not supported yet.
[05:02] <stub> kiko: What use cases do you have for deb_version_match and deb_relation_match ?
[05:03] <stub> mdz: cricket issue - never looked into it.
[05:03] <kiko> stub, if you look through database/ there are a few XXXs -- places where we python-sort instead of DB sort
[05:03] <kiko> stub, and there are more where I'd love to do that but couldn't yet
[05:03] <mdz> stub: who admins that cricket instance? it's pretty easy to fix
[05:04] <stub> kiko: So gustavo's code will be useful for sorting? I was thinking ideally we need something that converts a debian version number to a string (or integer) we can just sort alphabetically. If we had that, we could build indexes and use them. If we can't use an index, there isn't much difference sorting on the client than on the db server.
[05:04] <stub> mdz: Me I guess. What is the fix?
[05:05] <kiko> stub, well, sorting from the DB has an additional advantage of making the SelectResults easier to reuse/combine
[05:05] <kiko> stub, but I agree that indexing on it would be nice
[05:05] <stub> kiko: Do you think it is possible to do what I described?
[05:06] <mdz> stub: actually I'm surprised that it doesn't work out of the box; it's using packaged cricket?
[05:06] <stub> mdz: Yes.
[05:06] <kiko> stub, I'm thinking. it's probably possible, but will require some effort to determine a good format 
[05:06] <mdz> stub: anyway there's a tool in the source tree which you run and it spits out a bit of Perl code which you patch into one of the modules
[05:06] <stub> blech
[05:07] <mdz> stub: getFormat.c
[05:07] <stub> Or I could submit a bug report and make someone else fix it in the package ;)
[05:08] <mdz> I submitted a patch upstream aeons ago to fix it to not require this awful hack, but they went dead
[05:08] <mdz> I think I still have commit upstream, but I'm afraid that if I commit something I'll be nominated maintainer
[05:16] <flacoste> SteveA: do you still have plans to do some adapters refactoring this week?
[05:18] <SteveA> flacoste: remind me of the context please
[05:20] <flacoste> SteveA: it was started by https://launchpad.canonical.com/ITicketTargetAdapter
[05:21] <flacoste> and you can fin the discussion archived http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/launchpad-meeting-2006-07-10.html 
[05:21] <SteveA> thanks
[05:22] <SteveA> I'm doing various things this week to prepare for the launchpad infrastructure sprint next week
[05:22] <SteveA> and this is one thing I want to look at
[05:23] <flacoste> SteveA: ok, let me know if I can be of any help
[05:24] <SteveA> thanks
[05:24] <SteveA> how is the ticket target implementation looking at the moment?
[05:26] <flacoste> well, presently each class implements the interface and there are two methods that are implemented by delegating to an helper method
[05:27] <flacoste> also, in the tt-search branch that kiko is currently reviewing, I've removed the ITicketTarget from the bases of IDistribution, IProduct and company
[05:27] <flacoste> this was compatible with the discussion we had and it was needed for security
[05:28] <flacoste> (Some security declarations just did allow interface='IProduct' which also allowed all of ITicketTarget)
[05:34] <Spads> Hey, so I'm looking to set up a bzr tree for some planet.ubuntu.com goodness.  Are there any launchpaderinos here who can help me figure out how to get a proper lp+bzr setup so that I can grant access to more ubuntroids?
[05:35] <kiko> Spads, ddaa is a good bet
[05:35] <Spads> ddaa: I choose you!
[05:39] <kiko> if he is not idle or on vac
[05:39] <kiko> does anyone know?
[05:39] <kiko> lifeless, SteveA: do you know if we have any end-user documentation for shared branches?
[05:40] <SteveA> ddaa is off sick
[05:40] <Spads> alas.
[05:41] <jamesh> Spads: the basic story is to (a) create a team on Launchpad, and (b) push your branch to sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~teamname/product/branch
[05:42] <Spads> hmmm
[05:42] <Spads> I think that part of this is that my goal is to make this branch available to the ubuntu distro team, of which I am not a member
[05:42] <ddaa> That's all there is to it.
[05:42] <jamesh> Spads: it is best to work with the team owned branch through a checkout.  So either do "bzr checkout sftp://..." to create a new checkout
[05:43] <ddaa> Spads: as long as something is on launchpad, it's available to the whole world
[05:43] <Spads> I want them to be able to commit
[05:43] <ddaa> the team is useful for granting commit access
[05:43] <jamesh> Spads: when you commit to the checkout, the changes will be committed to SFTP at the same time.  Run "bzr update" on the checkout to get any changes others have committed
[05:44] <jamesh> Spads: okay.  Add the ubuntu distro team to the team owning the branch
[05:44] <Spads> ah okay
[05:44] <Spads> thanks
[05:44] <jamesh> teams can have other teams as members
[05:46] <kiko> jamesh, are there any user docs?
[05:47] <jamesh> kiko: I'm meant to be writing an article about it, but haven't done much on it yet.
[05:47] <kiko> jamesh, okay. thanks
[05:55] <jordi> mdz: I am here, yup
[05:55] <mdz> jordi: eh?
[05:55] <jordi> er
[05:55] <jordi> mdke: ^
[05:55] <jordi> sorry mdz :)
[05:55] <mdz> stub: how often are those graphs updated?  I am unable to see any change at this granularity, and without the current values, it's hard to tell
[05:56] <stub> mdz: Standard cricket - every five minutes
[05:57] <mdke> jordi: hi. there is so much spam to -translators, and hardly ever any posts to approve. What do you think about removing the moderator functionality and just have it approve emails from subscribed members and reject others?
[05:57] <jordi> mdke: yeah, it's terrible. I'd have to check if there's some policy against this practice at ubuntu.com first.
[05:58] <jordi> It's unfortunate, though
[05:58] <jordi> I cna find out
[05:58] <panthera> i was told that cannonical/ubuntu does, based on the email address from debian uploads, create accounts on launchpad.net
[05:58] <panthera> as i don't need nor want an 'account', who can remove it?
[05:58] <panthera> .oO(well, and i have even three of them - all 'empty')
[05:59] <mdke> panthera: I think it is necessary for certain functionalities in launchpad. You don't need to do anything - no details are disclosed, afaik. Someone else will be able to give you a more authoritative answer though
[06:00] <mdke> jordi: yeah, thanks
[06:01] <panthera> mdke: i want this 'Daniel Baumann is not an active member' to be removed. I know that I'm not involed in ubuntu.
[06:01] <jordi> mdke: we are free to move to this policy.
[06:01] <LarstiQ> panthera: launchpad is much more than ubuntu
[06:02] <mdke> jordi: shall I poke around and implement it? or do you want to consult with carlos too?
[06:02] <panthera> LarstiQ: then replace ubuntu with launchpad in my last sentence.
[06:02] <kiko> matsubara, is checkwatches not working currently?
[06:02] <jordi> yeah, let's run this through carlos too, but I'm pretty sure he'll be happy as well
[06:02] <mdke> panthera: that just means that you are not involved in any projects which are represented on launchpad
[06:02] <kiko> I just saw https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5723
[06:02] <Ubugtu> Freedesktop bug 5723 in icon theme "Bad Metaphor Used for edit-delete Icon" [Major,Resolved: fixed]  
[06:02] <panthera> mdke: i know what it means.
[06:03] <kiko> matsubara, which is RESOLVED FIXED but still not marked as such in launchpad
[06:03] <mdke> panthera: it bothers you?
[06:03] <mdke> jordi: ok, how about we do it now, and run it past him afterwards?
[06:03] <panthera> mdke: yes.
[06:03] <kiko> matsubara: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/31034
[06:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31034 in tango-icon-theme "evolution shows wrong trash icon" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  
[06:03] <jordi> mdke: that's ok for me too
[06:04] <mdke> jordi: ok, I'll see if I can do that
[06:04] <jamesh> kiko: I've got mpt's monospace bug comments changes up on https://demo.launchpad.net/ if you want to check them out
[06:04] <kiko> jamesh, ah, cool! did you also fix up sf.net weblinks?
[06:04] <kiko> jamesh, the wrapping is still kinda weird: https://demo.launchpad.net/products/python/+bug/sf223599
[06:05] <kiko> jamesh, that was one comment neil made on python-dev
[06:05] <LarstiQ> panthera: I admint being puzzled as to why.
[06:05] <jamesh> kiko: no weblinks yet.
[06:06] <panthera> LarstiQ: i'm not involved with ubuntu/cannonical/launchpad. i don't want a negative statement saying 'this guy does nothing here' somewhere on a site, regardless about what it is.
[06:06] <kiko> jamesh, aww
[06:06] <jamesh> kiko: I might see if I can patch them into the current import though.
[06:06] <kiko> thanks jamesh 
[06:07] <kiko> panthera, can you point me to the page where you are raising issue?
[06:07] <jordi> mdke: okay
[06:07] <azeem> heya
[06:07] <kiko> panthera, we could change the content to make it less aggravating
[06:08] <matsubara> kiko: can't find anything in logs. I'll have to look at the log archive since I don't have all of them.
[06:09] <panthera> kiko: https://launchpad.net/people/?name=daniel+baumann&searchfor=all
[06:09] <panthera> kiko: and then click one one
[06:09] <LarstiQ> panthera: Ah, I didn't think of that is negative, but I see now. About launchpad, there are tons of people/projects not associated with canonical that use it.
[06:09] <LarstiQ> panthera: like, me.
[06:09] <kiko> matsubara, just look at the latest checkwatches run.
[06:09] <azeem> LarstiQ: it's more about people who are on launchpad who *don't* use it
[06:10] <mdke> azeem: can't they just ignore it? no personal details are given away
[06:10] <matsubara> kiko: that's what I did. that bug was closed on the 24th and I don't have logs for that day.
[06:10] <panthera> LarstiQ: again, i'm not making any difference between ubuntu/cannonical/launchpad - i'm not involved at all in all three of them.
[06:10] <azeem> mdke: they seem to have issues
[06:10] <LarstiQ> azeem: it doubles as an account to use, but is also information about teams etc
[06:10] <mdke> azeem: this is the first example I've seen :)
[06:10] <LarstiQ> azeem: you don't have to use it to be of use
[06:11] <kiko> panthera, a) what if we just did s/Launchpad// ? b) if we removed the text "is not an active member", would that improve things?
[06:11] <LarstiQ> panthera: my point is that almost noone is involved with them
[06:11] <azeem> my proposal was: "If no member of any teams, no Ubuntero and has not created account themselves (possible to detect?) -> "This person is not affiliated with Ubuntu, Canonical or Launchpad"
[06:11] <azeem> plus, some people have taken offense at the "Ubuntero: not yet"
[06:12] <kiko> panthera, c) we could also add information saying "This entry was created automatically by Launchpad (_why?_), but the account has not yet been activated."
[06:12] <mdke> jordi: done, I think :)
[06:12] <kiko> azeem, that's just a bug. I should get rid of that.
[06:12] <azeem> maybe you could consider changing that to "Ubuntero: no" for people who did not create their people-page through the creation of an account=?
[06:13] <panthera> LarstiQ: if you remove everything, both the wiki-link, and the 'daniel baumann is not active',
[06:13] <kiko> azeem, we should just not say anything.
[06:13] <azeem> kiko: please understand that you have *all* Debian Developers as people on launchpad, and some outright hate Ubuntu (for whatever reasons)
[06:13] <kiko> I know.
[06:13] <panthera> LarstiQ: yes, and something like 'this entry was automatically created and does not mean, that the person is affilated with ubuntu/connical/launchpad/$whatever' in any way.
[06:13] <panthera> LarstiQ: that would be fine.
[06:13] <azeem> so your above c) sound very good, I'd just add a "not affiliated with us" disclaimer as well
[06:14] <LarstiQ> panthera: right, that should be doable *looks at lp devs*
[06:14] <mdke> but most projects on LP are not affiliated with Canonical...
[06:14] <panthera> mdke: that's not the point.
[06:14] <LarstiQ> What I don't understand though, is why people think people/foo has anything to do with u/c/l?
[06:14] <mdke> maybe that should be more clear?
[06:14] <kiko> LarstiQ, well, it /is/ under launchpad.net :)
[06:14] <LarstiQ> No one seems to object to sourceforge users
[06:15] <kiko> LarstiQ, yeah, but they are explicitly created for your project
[06:15] <LarstiQ> kiko: Not true with migrations, like the python.org sf import 
[06:15] <azeem> LarstiQ: does launchpad include all sourceforge users?
[06:15] <azeem> anyway
[06:15] <LarstiQ> azeem: for the subset of python, yes
[06:15] <panthera> LarstiQ: and it's quite strange, that all my packages are listed there too.
[06:15] <jordi> mdke: ok. Let's see how it goes.
[06:16] <azeem> maybe that was discussed, and it doesn't matter much anyway, some people in Debian weren't asked and don't like it
[06:16] <panthera> LarstiQ: i created crappy http://people.debian.org/~daniel/documents/ubuntu.html some days ago, because i was sick of those mails i get
[06:16] <jamesh> azeem: if Python picks us, we'll probably be creating a number of accounts for SF accounts that opened or commented on Python bugs
[06:16] <panthera> LarstiQ: about 5 per week asking stuff about old packages which are in dapper and got in ubuntu no update since january
[06:16] <kiko> panthera, what sort of emails do you get?
[06:17] <kiko> panthera, and how did they find your email address?
[06:17] <LarstiQ> panthera: I agree that is a problem.
[06:17] <panthera> kiko: maintainer field
[06:17] <azeem> panthera: that is probably a different issue (namely  the Maintainer: field)
[06:17] <azeem> I am not sure that is on-topic here
[06:17] <panthera> kiko: most prominent one is 'hey, do you have no time to update your package (grsync)? it's at 0.1.2 where as upstream has 0.4.3'
[06:18] <siretart> azeem: I think it is. mdz mentioned that it is going to change ( I think it was on debian-devel@l.d.o )
[06:18] <mdke> panthera: you'll get those emails anyway, given that Ubuntu syncs from debian and people will always follow the trail upwards if they are keen on packaged being upgraded
[06:18] <azeem> siretart: yeah I know, I was just not sure whether that is on-topic in #u-d or here
[06:18] <mdke> you'll get them from debian and Ubuntu users, I would have thought
[06:18] <panthera> mdke: i know, but advertising my packages on 'my' launchpad.net site under 'my' account doesn't make it better.
[06:20] <siretart> looking at https://launchpad.net/people/daniel-debian/+packages - it really looks like panthera would maintain packages in ubuntu
[06:20] <panthera> yep
[06:21] <jamesh> and more here: https://launchpad.net/people/panthera/+packages
[06:21] <panthera> and even more here https://launchpad.net/people/daniel-baumann/+packages
[06:21] <kiko> panthera, in the apt-cache information?
[06:21] <jamesh> you should merge those accounts
[06:21] <panthera> kiko: in the maintainers field. of course, it does show up everywhere then.
[06:21] <azeem> jamesh: they are not accoutns
[06:21] <kiko> yeah, merging would be cool.
[06:22] <jamesh> azeem: they are each potential accounts.
[06:22] <siretart> jamesh: I think he doesn't want to get involved with launchpad nor ubuntu. he rather wants to be mentioned on launchpad at all
[06:22] <siretart> wants to not be mentioned, even
[06:22] <kiko-fud> bbiab
[06:23] <azeem> as I said elsewhere, Debian maintainer information is duplicated all over the web
[06:23] <jamesh> panthera: this is more an issue to bring up with the Ubuntu developers though.  IIRC they were talking about blanking or replacing the Maintainer field when bringing packages over for the next distro release.
[06:23] <azeem> just having a disclaimer like "This person is not the Ubuntu maintainer" would help a lot
[06:23] <siretart> jamesh: would this make https://launchpad.net/people/daniel-debian/+packages vanish?
[06:24] <panthera> jamesh: there are two things - one is the maintainer field, which is not the point right now, and the second that 'my' launchpad account lists 'my' packages in ubuntu. atm, i don't care that much for the first one as i know there are some things going on about it.
[06:24] <panthera> but the second one was, or not that i know of, raised already.
[06:24] <jamesh> siretart: I guess.  That information is generated from the package data in LP, which comes from the uploads made by the Ubuntu developers
[06:25] <jamesh> panthera: your second issue is most likely caused by the first issue
[06:25] <mdke> so it comes back to the maintainer field...
[06:25] <siretart> jamesh: this would mean that (at least binary) packages in released ubuntu distros would have to be changed, no?
[06:26] <jamesh> siretart: I think they were planning on doing it from next release on -- the existing releases would be left as is
[06:30] <azeem> so, it would it be possible to have some "Not affiliated with us" disclaimer for artificially created accounts, which are not part of any teams in the meantime?
[06:30] <azeem> s/it//
[06:32] <mdke> panthera: if it is made clear to Ubuntu users that you are not an Ubuntu maintainer, presumably the requests for upgrades will filter through to you anyway, right? they will just have the extra step of being reported to an Ubuntu developer, who will then pass it up? Or does that extra step help, in terms of ensuring stuff goes to the right place in the debian BTS?
[06:32] <jamesh> azeem: we've considered adding some messages to unclaimed accounts.  E.g. if you're logged in, provide a link to the "merge person" form.  If you aren't logged in, provide a link to the password recovery form
[06:33] <jamesh> azeem: each of those would make it a bit more obvious that the person was not an active LP user
[06:33] <azeem> hrm
[06:35] <panthera> mdke: i'm not sure if i did understand you right.
[06:35] <LarstiQ> jamesh: that wouldn't be a really clear statement though.
[06:35] <jamesh> LarstiQ: what sort of statement are you after?
[06:35] <panthera> mdke: i'm bothered about things which are in debian non-issues, they are completely ubuntu-specific. so, if users would know that i'm not taking care about packages in ubuntu,
[06:36] <panthera> mdke: they would not ask me about it, and the problem is solved, so far.
[06:36] <azeem> 18:02 < azeem> my proposal was: "If no member of any teams, no Ubuntero and has not created account themselves (possible to detect?) -> "This person is not affiliated with Ubuntu, Canonical or Launchpad"
[06:36] <panthera> mdke: (and for non ubuntu-specific things, motu fills bug report or some do also contact me directly, which is both very fine with me and welcome)
[06:37] <mdke> panthera: i see, all clear, thanks
[06:38] <LarstiQ> jamesh: azeems suggestion asserts something else, but I do think it would take care of the problems.
[07:18] <kiko> sabdfl!
[07:19] <sabdfl> kikomatic!
[07:26] <kiko> how are things going up north?
[08:06] <tuxvix> hello, how long does it takes to ship the cds?
[08:08] <salgado> tuxvix, around 6 weeks, usually
[08:08] <tuxvix> :) cool
[08:09] <tuxvix> Thank You sooo much for the free cds. I love you guys
[08:09] <salgado> you're welcome. :) 
[08:10] <tuxvix> :)
[08:10] <tuxvix> Long Leave Ubuntu :)
[08:55] <bradb> Anyone else getting that "ProgrammingError: function ensure_session_client_id("unknown") does not exist"?
[08:56] <flacoste> bradb: you need to DROP the session database before redoing a make schema
[08:57] <bradb> flacoste: why isn't make schema doing that?
[08:58] <flacoste> bradb: optimisation it seems
[08:58] <flacoste> there is a message about that when doing make schema
[08:58] <flacoste> bla blah session (if necessary)
[08:58] <flacoste> that's the one: * Creating session database '${SESSION_DBNAME}' (if necessary)
[08:59] <bradb> Doesn't really help for this issue, tbh
[09:00] <flacoste> you mean it still doesn't work?
[09:02] <bradb> flacoste: It works. I meant my brain sees no obvious connection between the error message I got and the " ... (if necessary)" message.
[09:03] <bradb> I'm just being grumpy because it's annoying when changes are made that break the development process, without a CAPS LOCK email sent to the list about what you have to do
[09:03] <flacoste> bradb: lol, yeah, well, to be honest, I glimpse the solution not by that message but from an IRC conversation
[09:04] <flacoste> bradb: I agree, I would also have expected an email to the list about that change
[09:10] <bradb> flacoste: er, how long ago was that, btw? I haven't been doing coding since last Tuesday.
[09:10] <bradb> if it'd already been several days, i guess there'd be no point mailing the list
[09:12] <flacoste> bradb: i think that problem arose around thursday
[09:13] <flacoste> carlos mail was on Friday
[09:13] <flacoste> so it is possible that the problem appeared Friday
[09:14] <mdz> kiko: up north it is summertime
[09:14] <kiko> mdz, it's freezing here today!
[09:14] <mdz> how cold is 'freezing' to a brazilian?
[09:17] <kiko> like 12C?
[09:22] <kiko> actually, 14C
[09:22] <kiko> and 94% humidity
[09:22] <kiko> brrrr!
[09:30] <kiko> ajmitch, ping?
[09:31] <ajmitch> kiko: yessir?
[09:31] <kiko> ajmitch! I was just looking at http://www.avahi.org/ and launchpad.net/products/avahi
[09:32] <kiko> ajmitch, avahi is currently listed as officially using malone, but it appears to suggest using trace in its website. should I turn that flag off?
[09:32] <ajmitch> I'm really not the best person to ask on that, since I'm not exactly involved upstream - if you can find Lathiat around, I'd check with him
[09:33] <kiko> I just pinged him
[09:33] <ajmitch> ok
[09:33] <kiko> does the answer appear to be "yes" btw?
[09:33] <ajmitch> I'd say so
[09:33] <kiko> thanks.
[09:33] <ajmitch> there have been bugs reported, but they all appear to be ubuntu packaging related
[09:33] <kiko> yep
[09:38] <laszlok> is there a reason why files uploaded to rosetta need to be reviewed?
[09:43] <kiko> laszlok, are you the upstream maintainer?
[09:45] <laszlok> kiko: of jokosher, yes
[09:45] <kiko> laszlok, is this your first upload?
[09:45] <laszlok> yes
[09:45] <kiko> if so, then yes there is setup that needs to be done. jordi or danilos should be able to help you there, though.
[09:46] <laszlok> kiko: cause im the one who registered the product... but there is more to setup?
[09:46] <kiko> laszlok, yes, there is -- but it's first-time only and it will be handled fast!
[09:47] <laszlok> kiko: thank you :)
[09:47] <kiko> you're most welcome
[09:47] <kiko> jordi wake up
[10:02] <jordi> HERE
[10:02] <jordi> laszlok: here I am.
[10:03] <laszlok> jordi: okay what do i have to do?
[10:03] <jordi> laszlok: basically, we require setup so we don't use a wrong domain name for your files, and to avoid people trying to do unsolicited imports of your VeryPopularApplication (it happens a lot)
[10:04] <jordi> laszlok: can you update me a bit? Have you submitted your files already?
[10:06] <laszlok> jordi: i have submitted two files for this series https://launchpad.net/products/jokosher/trunk
[10:06] <jordi> ok
[10:07] <laszlok> the first one i changed to deleted because i uploaded another one with updated strings
[10:09] <jordi> laszlok: I only see one
[10:10] <jordi> oh ok
[10:11] <jordi> laszlok: ok, the filename doesn't give me a clue of what the template name/domain name should be
[10:11] <jordi> should it be just "jokosher"? 
[10:11] <laszlok> ya thats fine
[10:11] <jordi> k
[10:14] <jordi> laszlok: should be ready now. If the template has no errors, it will be imported soon.
[10:15] <laszlok> jordi: okay, and what happens when i want to upload again?
[10:16] <jordi> laszlok: it *should* be automatic.
[10:16] <laszlok> jordi: thanks :)
[10:17] <jordi> laszlok: but to help it, you could name the file "jokosher.pot"
[10:17] <jordi> :)
[10:21] <laszlok> can i change the filename without renaming my local copy?
[10:36] <kiko> hey stub 
[10:37] <stub> yo
[10:38] <kiko> stub, can you give me an update on the source package name cleanups?
[10:38] <stub> What source package name cleanups?
[10:38] <kiko> stub, that I emailed to you
[10:39] <kiko> Subject: Cleaning up bogus binary package names
[10:41] <laszlok> jordi: the file uploaded okay but now it says that there are 0 strings to be translated
[10:41] <stub> kiko: Found it. Haven't looked into it yet.
[10:41] <kiko> stub, ah. well, please let me know when you can, I want to proceed with cleaning the bugs up and it's going to be a lot of work..
[10:47] <jordi> laszlok: until it says "Imported", it'll show like that.
[10:47] <jordi> https://launchpad.net/rosetta/imports?target=products&status=all&type=all
[10:47] <jordi> It's "Approved" just yet.
[10:47] <jordi> it takes a little bit
[10:48] <laszlok> jordi: thanks again, ill be back later then
[10:49] <jordi> laszlok: okay
[11:17] <BlueAidan> anyone know why I never get the registration email?
[11:18] <lucasvo> are there nice buttons like the Sourceforge has: Project powered by Launchpad? 
[11:20] <BlueAidan> I've tried like 3-4 times now, but I never get the message.
[11:24] <lucasvo> how comes that I get this error: lucasvo@supernova:~/Desktop/vincisolutions/webmail$ bzr pull http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~harmony-devs/harmony/trunk
[11:24] <lucasvo> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~harmony-devs/harmony/trunk/
[11:24] <lucasvo> even though launchpad says:  Hosted on Launchpad:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~harmony-devs/harmony/trunk  
[11:25] <kiko> let's see
[11:25] <jamesh>  lucasvo if it is something you just uploaded, wait 15 minutes or so
[11:26] <kiko> indeed it is not there yet
[11:26] <kiko> 404
[11:28] <jamesh> lucasvo: branches are not immediately published (even if you upload via sftp) -- it will get published with the next branch puller run.
[11:29] <lucasvo> jamesh: ah, ok
[11:39] <lucasvo> can one get the Launchpad Logo in a higher resolution somewhere?
[11:39] <kiko> lucasvo, perhaps in SVG somewhere. one sec.
[11:40] <kiko> yep.
[11:41] <kiko> lucasvo, do you want the SVG file?
[11:41] <lucasvo> yes please
[11:43] <kiko> async.com.br/~kiko/launchpad.svg
[11:44] <lucasvo> ok, now my branch has been published, I get 404
[11:44] <lucasvo> https://launchpad.net/people/harmony-devs/+branch/harmony/trunk
[11:44] <kiko> lucasvo, james did say it might take some time to be updated, right?
[11:44] <lucasvo> kiko: ty
[11:45] <lucasvo> kiko: yes, but if I can see the revisions, doesn't that mean that it has already been published?
[11:45] <kiko> on the web? I think they are separate cronjobs
[11:49] <lucasvo> ok
[11:50] <lucasvo> kiko: when I merge a branch, does it take as long as creating one?
[12:06] <kiko> lucasvo, I'm not entirely sure. it may be that something else is amiss btw
[12:07] <kiko> lucasvo, oh, no, it's there now.