[12:35] <gnomefreak> ty slomo_ i was getting ready to do that ;)
[02:19] <desrt> taking a cpu offline using cpu-hotplug causes my laptop's power consumption to -increase-
[02:20] <HrdwrBoB> likely because the cpu then clocks itself to fullspeed
[02:20] <desrt> i think the two cpu's have their speeds locked together
[02:20] <desrt> (dualcore)
[02:29] <desrt> ok
[02:29] <desrt> i think the problem is more like when the CPU goes offline it runs a busyloop
[03:07] <Amaranth> is ubuntu-minimal supposed to be autoremoved?
[03:07] <jdub> Amaranth: use upgrade, not dist-upgrade :-)
[03:08] <Amaranth> jdub: No, ubuntu-base got dropped and it was the only thing depending on ubuntu-minimal.
[03:08] <jdub> Amaranth: ah, using aptitude?
[03:09] <Amaranth> jdub: No, was reading changelog, saw ubuntu-base didn't exist anymore, removed it. :)
[03:10] <Amaranth> synaptic then shows ubuntu-minimal and all it's dependencies as autoremovable, nothing seems to pull them in.
[03:11] <Amaranth> I'm thinking if I were to do a fresh install it would be one of those marked as manually installed so this wouldn't be a problem, I just marked it to be reinstalled so it would be in manually.
[04:21] <zul> mdz: should i send the announcement to -devel or -devel-announce?
[04:22] <jdub> zul: hey, i saw you upload xen love yesterday or so - rad!
[04:22] <zul> jdub: yep...working version was uploaded today/yesterday ;)
[04:23] <Hobbsee> zul: yay!
[04:23] <jdub> did it build?
[04:23] <zul> yep..
[04:23] <zul> both userland and xen-kernel
[04:23] <jdub> rad
[04:23] <jdub> onya!
[04:23] <zul> amd64 is next
[04:23] <ajmitch> good work
[04:23] <zul> thanks..
[04:24] <zul> just have to make it better now..
[04:24] <jdub> is it in a works-but-not-Just-Works state atm?
[04:24] <zul> jdub: i was using it this afternoon
[04:25] <zul> works but needs some tweaking of course and testing other than me
[04:25] <jdub> hrm, i can't see the xen-image
[04:26] <zul> hmm...must not be in the archive yet
[04:26] <jdub> zul: is xen-utils-3.0 supposed to conflict with xen-utils or xen-tools?
[04:27] <jdub> Setting up xen-utils-3.0 (3.0.2+hg11127-2) ...
[04:27] <jdub> ldconfig: /usr/lib/libblktap.so.3.0 is not a symbolic link
[04:27] <jdub> 
[04:28] <jdub> heh
[04:28] <zul> xen-tools creates the images...xen-utils is the userspace stuff
[04:28] <zul> eh?
[04:28] <jdub> $ ls /usr/lib/libblktap.so*
[04:28] <jdub> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11K 2006-07-29 20:57 /usr/lib/libblktap.so.3.0
[04:28] <jdub> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11K 2006-07-29 20:57 /usr/lib/libblktap.so.3.0.0
[04:28] <jdub> 
[04:28] <zul> grrr..
[04:29] <jdub> oh, that's an unfortunate package name weirdness
[04:29] <zul> im going to go shoot myself ;)
[04:29] <jdub> nono! don't do that!
[04:30] <zul> jdub: works for me...i dont get that message
[04:31] <zul> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenOnEdgy
[04:31] <zul> of course when..xen-image gets in the archive
[04:31] <jdub> zul: do you have two files, or a file and a link?
[04:31] <zul> two files
[04:32] <jdub> yeah, that's still b0rk
[04:35] <zul> jdub: what if you run xm?
[04:35] <jdub> zul: i don't have xen-image yet :)
[04:35] <zul> just to see if it runs :)
[04:35] <jdub> zul: things using that lib will run fine, it's just an unnecessary duplicate file
[04:36] <jdub> it runs and b0rks:
[04:36] <zul> ah ok
[04:36] <jdub> ERROR: Could not obtain handle on privileged command interface (2 = No such file or directory)
[04:37] <zul> ok ill look into it thanks jdub
[04:37] <jdub> heh
[04:37] <infinity> zul: And yes, please fix the duplicae lib.  That's not only bad form, it's also wrong.
[04:37] <zul> ok ill do that
[04:37] <jdub> infinity: btw, are there old things in the NEW queue atm?
[04:38] <infinity> jdub: Define "old"... (are you looking for anything specific?)
[04:38] <jdub> infinity: last-exit?
[04:38] <jdub> there were some grumblings about that a few days ago
[04:38] <infinity> jdub: Oldest thing is 2 weeks old, so not really all that old.  last-exit is 12 days old, yes.
[04:39] <infinity> jdub: I only do source NEW processing when I'm in the right frame of mind, cause it requires license checking, etc.
[04:39] <infinity> jdub: And I suspect Kamion and Keybuk are in the same boat.
[04:39] <jdub> yeah
[04:41] <bddebian> Hi infinity
[04:42] <Hobbsee> infinity: which is never? :P
[04:42] <infinity> Hobbsee: No, I do it occasionally.  I know Keybuk's done some recently..
[04:43] <infinity> The NEW queue is very short right now, and nothing's older than 2 weeks, so I'm not sure that "never" is fair.
[04:43] <Hobbsee> infinity: i'm kidding, cant you see the :P?
[04:43] <infinity> Hobbsee: Ahh, that's in dapper's unapproved queue.  Did it have approval from mdz to be uploaded?  Can you forward that approval to the ubuntu-archive mailing list?
[04:44] <Hobbsee> infinity: it did, i'd have to look up the logs for it.
[04:44] <Hobbsee> infinity: mdz eyeballed the patch, talked to the upstream maintainer, then ack'd it
[04:45] <infinity> Hobbsee: Right, well please either dig up said approval, or just get mdz himself to do the queue manipulation for it.
[04:45] <jdub> DIG UP THE APPROVAL!
[04:45] <jdub> i want to see some h0t dead approval action
[04:46] <Hobbsee> infinity: yay!  found the log :)
[04:46] <infinity> Hobbsee: Hot stuff.  Mail away, and I'll accept the upload.
[04:47] <Hobbsee> infinity: gah. /me looks up where the ubuntu archive mailing list is too.
[04:48] <infinity> ubuntu-archive@l.u.c, I believe.
[04:48] <infinity> Yup.
[04:48] <infinity> Wow, we get a lot of asian span to that list.
[04:48] <infinity> spam, too.
[04:49] <Burgundavia> infinity: all of ubuntu tends to get lots of asian spam, including various people like myself
[04:49] <jdub> anyone use nullmailer?
[04:49] <infinity> jdub: Have in the past.  Not much to "use" about it, really.
[04:50] <jdub> infinity: did you use tls or smtp auth with it?
[04:50] <infinity> jdub: I tend to prefer ssmtp, if the goal is just to have a /usr/sbin/sendmail that gets stuff off the host ASAP.
[04:51] <jdub> i need something that queues and can do tls
[04:51] <infinity> jdub: Oh, you're actually running nullmailer on port 25?  Yeah, don't recall ever bothring to do that.
[04:51] <jdub> ssmtp doesn't seem to queue
[04:51] <jdub> infinity: client auth, i mean
[04:51] <jdub> long time since i've usedi t
[04:52] <infinity> Anytime I actually need an MTA that queues and does useful things, I just use a full-featured on, like exim4 or postfix.
[04:53] <jdub> yeah
[04:53] <Hobbsee> infinity: sorry to be a pain, but the email is screwing up for some reason.  pastebin of the email is at http://pastebin.ca/107657
[04:53] <TheMuso> I don't think nullmailer supports TLS. I am happy to be proven wrong however.
[04:53] <jdub> i'm hoping to remove postfix to ramp up laptop battery life
[04:53] <Hobbsee> yay - longer battery laptop life is good!
[04:54] <jdub> TheMuso: yeah, doesn't seem to
[04:54] <jdub> bummer
[04:55] <Amaranth> anyone know what i can do to debug suspend problems?
[04:59] <Amaranth> nm, suse wiki has interesting things
[05:00] <infinity> Hobbsee: Okay, that's good enough for me, I guess.
[05:01] <Hobbsee> infinity: thanks.  there is a longer log, but it took a while - you're free to delve into fabbio*ne's logs for it though
[05:02] <bddebian> Anyone know what is up with lamont these days?  I haven't "seen" him for ages?
[05:03] <infinity> bddebian: Busy working, mostly.
[05:04] <Hobbsee> infinity: thanks
[05:06] <Hobbsee> yay!  found a powerpoint
[05:07] <bddebian> infinity: Do you think he'd care if I did his Universe merges?
[05:07] <Hobbsee> bddebian: no, i've already done some, and yet to be killed for it
[05:07] <bddebian> :-)
[05:07] <bddebian> Actually Kamion and Keybuk are probably going to kill me for all the sync requests :-)
[05:09] <Hobbsee> bddebian: no they wont.
[05:10] <bddebian> Probably too early for mdz yet eh?
[05:10] <Burgundavia> bddebian: it is 8pm here, assuming he as home
[05:11] <Burgundavia> s/he as/he is at/
[05:11] <bddebian> Oh, hmm
[05:11] <bddebian> Hi Burgundavia btw :-)
[05:11] <Burgundavia> hey
[06:00] <bluefoxicy> HOBBSEE I STILL OWE YOU A SMITE >:|
[06:00] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: whatever for?
[06:00] <bluefoxicy> But I am not really that angry now and really don't fele like it, so you get off easy.
[06:00] <bluefoxicy> >:| for going psycho on me this morning
[06:01] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Hence why he brought it up :-)
[06:01] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:01] <purserj> good afternoon/evening/morning all
[06:02] <purserj> I have a question regarding the breezy livecd installer, I need to preseed the xconfig stage however I can't seem to find where I can do that
[06:04] <Burgundavia> bluefoxicy: all I remember was you being less than respectful
[06:06] <Burgundavia> purserj: in general, this is not a support channel. there also was no breezy livecd installer. Do you mean the text installer, or the dapper livecd one?
[06:06] <purserj> Sorry, I meant the bootstrap process that the livecd goes through.
[06:07] <bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  I fail to see in what way; the line of thinking was the same line this girl was following http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=192551&cid=15806787
[06:07] <bluefoxicy> at any rate enough
[06:10] <purserj> Sorry I realise that this is not a support channel, however the documentation covering this particular aspect of Ubuntu seem s to be sparse at best so I thought I would ask the question here. I had asked a couple of ubuntu devs and they recommended I come here and ask the question
[06:11] <Burgundavia> purserj: hmm, I know nothing of how that works, sorry
[06:11] <purserj> thanks anyway
[06:11] <Burgundavia> good luck
[06:12] <purserj> thanks, I had been told either Kamion or daniels might know something about it
[06:12] <Burgundavia> daniels no longer works for canonical, but Kamion is a good bet
[06:13] <purserj> ta
[06:13] <Burgundavia> if you are playing with the livecd, Mithrandir is a good choice
[06:13] <ajmitch> but he won't be around for at least a couple of weeks
[06:13] <Burgundavia> ah, true, lucky bastard just got married
[06:13] <ajmitch> s/just got/is getting/
[06:13] <ajmitch> next weekend, iirc
[06:14] <bluefoxicy> heh.
[06:14] <bluefoxicy> I'm not gonna get married
[06:14] <bluefoxicy> Apparently it pushes you into the next tax bracket when you both have jobs, so your taxes go up.
[06:14] <purserj> I'll wait around if thats okay, see if I can catch Kamion 
[06:15] <bluefoxicy> Plus I don't think it's legal in thiss tate.
[06:15] <purserj> bluefoxicy, thats easily taken care of, have kids, watch the tax brackets fall away
[06:15] <bluefoxicy> purserj:  1)  I hate kids; 2)  I'm running every possible scenario in my head right now but I don't see any of them resulting in small derived copies of my DNA
[06:16] <ajmitch> all this is suitable for -offtopic
[06:16] <bluefoxicy> I think I'm still banned from there
[06:17] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: did you ask to be unbanned?
[06:18] <bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  no; I assumed it would fall off eventually, or that my hostmask etc would eventually change like with #grsecurity
[06:18] <purserj> Hobbsee, so's my sister
[06:18] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: doesnt appen.
[06:18] <bluefoxicy> Oh.  Well then yes somebody probably needs to unban me before I can get back in.
[06:20] <Hobbsee> quite likely.
[06:20] <Hobbsee> anyway...
[06:24] <desrt> oh man
[06:24] <Burgundavia> desrt: good evening?
[06:24] <desrt> edgy just ate my laptop.
[06:25] <ajmitch> desrt: your macbook?
[06:25] <desrt> ya
[06:25] <desrt> it's in pain.  bad.
[06:25] <desrt> no l-r-m yet, i guess
[06:25] <tritium> bluefoxicy: I'm not seeing the ban that's keeping you out
[06:26] <bddebian> Heya tritium
[06:26] <tritium> hi bddebian 
[06:27] <bluefoxicy> tritium:  oh, seems gone.  Wasn't gone when I started my client
[06:28] <tritium> bluefoxicy: okay, I had just opped up to unban you :)
[06:36] <jdub> bluefoxicy: i find your latest blog post extraordinarily offensive
[06:37] <bddebian> bluefoxicy: You have a blog?
[06:37] <Hobbsee> bddebian: http://bluefox.kicks-ass.org/blog/
[06:38] <bluefoxicy> jdub:  it is not meant to be friendly, it's meant to make a point.  Opinions you don't agree with are naturally offensive.
[06:39] <bluefoxicy> besides, this isn't the place to discuss such things.
[06:40] <bddebian> And on that note, guess it's time to go to bed.  Gnight folks
[06:40] <jdub> bluefoxicy: that is not true. there are many things i don't agree with that are not offensive to me.
[06:41] <HrdwrBoB> in any case it's not even remotely an open source problem
[06:41] <HrdwrBoB> it's a common theme across most technical fields
[06:42] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: (apart from us having 1.5% females vs. 25% in proprietary software industry)
[06:42] <Burgundavia> HrdwrBoB: it appears to be a worse problem in the oss world
[06:42] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: (that indicates a localised problem)
[06:42] <HrdwrBoB> true
[06:43] <HrdwrBoB> though I would wager that's because women will do it for money, but not because they love it (in general)
[06:43] <Burgundavia> I think more women is a great thing, because they appear to be interested in different things. I hate stereotypes, but I think it is true
[06:45] <HrdwrBoB> jdub: 'industry'
[06:45] <HrdwrBoB> does that include non-technical people?
[06:45] <Burgundavia> HrdwrBoB: if it does, it shows us something
[06:45] <Burgundavia> OSS is bad at keeping non-geeks and non-technical people
[06:45] <Burgundavia> oh, and attracting them as well
[06:46] <HrdwrBoB> private industry has 'sales'
[06:46] <HrdwrBoB> 'marketing'
[06:46] <HrdwrBoB> much deeper levels of management
[06:46] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: read the flosspols report
[06:46] <Burgundavia> thus with a smaller absolute "market" of women to attract, we are doing very badly attracting the "soft" side
[06:46] <HrdwrBoB> jdub: thanks
[06:47] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: has lots more information about the context of the research
[06:47] <jdub> and recommendations for things to do to improve the situation
[06:47] <jdub> (a direct inspiration for GNOME's WSOP)
[06:48] <Hobbsee> jdub: most likely due to the fact that a lot of girls wont put up with high levels of shit and sexual harassment.  that's why your women numbers are down.  and the fact that if the person gets harrassed here, nothing gets done, and they can do it ove rand over - whereas in propriatary software, the guy loses his job, and finds it incredibly hard to get another one
[06:49] <jdub> Hobbsee: actual research results in flosspols :-)
[06:49] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: ah, yeah, i would be - based on the fact that there arent that many women in here anyway :P  process of elimination
[06:49] <Hobbsee> jdub: true.  that's my take on it, anyway
[06:49] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: you're the only one i know of, actually
[06:49] <Hobbsee> jdub: i did see those research results
[06:50] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: yeah, exactly.  simira wasnt there
[06:50] <Hobbsee> well, wasnt talking
[06:50] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: given what passes for discourse in other oss communities, if even a small percentage of that comes out as sexist, I am not surprised if a woman would just up and leave
[06:50] <jdub> Hobbsee: possibly getting married at the time
[06:50] <Hobbsee> jdub: yeah, that's what i thought
[06:50] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: quite likely
[06:51] <Hobbsee> hi BenC 
[06:51] <HrdwrBoB> possibly not sexist
[06:51] <HrdwrBoB> but there are high levels of abuse just in general
[06:51] <HrdwrBoB> very ..er.. vocal. arguemnts
[06:52] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: a lot of the sexism is unintentional, but it's there
[06:53] <HrdwrBoB> and there's no checks and balances
[06:53] <jdub> or cheques
[06:53] <imbrandon> moins ladies and gents , hows the -devel world this great day ?
[06:54] <HrdwrBoB> isn't it a 'check' as in 'to check' not a cheque as in money?
[06:54] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: no :-)
[06:57] <HrdwrBoB> my research disagrees
[06:57] <HrdwrBoB> but no matter
[07:33] <ajmitch> doko: good news, ironpython compiles with a patched copy of the mono packages we have, and I have a (very basic) package working
[08:07] <imbrandon> ajmitch or crimsun either of you guys arround ?
[08:08] <imbrandon> err wrong chan
[08:26] <Hobbsee> hi again all
[08:28] <desrt> Hobbsee; goodday
[08:28] <Hobbsee> desrt: :)
[08:28] <ajmitch> desrt: got anywhere with the laptop?
[08:28] <desrt> ajmitch; things are much better now
[08:28] <dholbach> good morning
[08:28] <ajmitch> that's good 
[08:29] <desrt> ajmitch; l-r-m missing was my fault
[08:29] <Hobbsee> desrt: yay
[08:29] <ajmitch> ah, that can cause issues if you need it
[08:29] <desrt> ajmitch; and i managed to repair ooo by stracing it to find out what file it was missing and copied it over from my other box
[08:29] <ajmitch> what was missing?
[08:29] <desrt> /etc/openoffice/sofficerc
[08:29] <desrt> oh - btw.  there is a symbol conflict in the madwifi drivers... so madwifi-ng users get pwned
[08:29] <ajmitch> there's probably a bug open about OOo
[08:30] <ajmitch> that info could be added there
[08:30] <crimsun> yep, bug 54590
[08:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54590 in openoffice.org "openoffice.org-* doesnt launch (edgy)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54590
[08:30] <ajmitch> thanks crimsun 
[08:30] <desrt> wlan and new_wlan both have a symbol ether_sprintf
[08:32] <desrt> i think i'll confirm that bug?
[08:42] <sivang> morning
[08:42] <Hobbsee> hi sivang!
[08:43] <sivang> Hobbsee: going to PM
[08:47] <desrt> Stefan Potyra <daemon@poleboy.de>
[08:48] <desrt> does anyone know who this is?
[08:48] <ajmitch> sistpoty, one of the MOTUs
[08:48] <ajmitch> why?
[08:48] <desrt> he said on revu that he uploaded a package of mine on july 20 but it doesn't appear to have hit universe yet
[08:48] <ajmitch> might be stuck in NEW
[08:48] <desrt> i checked soyuz build logs -- no hits for it
[08:48] <pitti> Good morning
[08:48] <Hobbsee> hi pitti 
[08:48] <desrt> pitti; word up.
[08:49] <ajmitch> desrt: check on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
[08:49] <ThunderStruck> morning
[08:49] <desrt> ajmitch; ah.  there it is.
[08:49] <desrt> what is this NEW queue?
[08:49] <pitti> hi Hobbsee, moin desrt 
[08:49] <desrt> moin moin
[08:50] <desrt> what is moin, anyway?
[08:50] <ajmitch> desrt: packages that have to be checked by the ftp masters for licensing, sanity, etc
[08:50] <imbrandon> desrt: packages that are new to ubuntu that havent been approved^Wlooked over yet
[08:50] <ajmitch> everything new into ubuntu (and debian) goes through this process
[08:50] <desrt> i see.
[08:51] <desrt> sounds like a generally good idea
[08:52] <desrt> the more i learn about all of this insane infrastructure the more convinced i become that things are done in a good way
[08:52] <desrt> which is pretty much the opposite from what you'd expect, given how everything else on earth works :)
[08:52] <imbrandon> lol
[08:53] <desrt> it's like working at a fast food place
[08:53] <desrt> the more you learn about it the less you want to eat the food
[08:53] <desrt> :)
[08:54] <Hobbsee> desrt: gives you an idea of how hard it is to stick bad software in the repos, etc
[08:54] <Hobbsee> and of quality control
[08:55] <desrt> sort of reassuring that it takes more than one person to get a package into the distro
[09:01] <ajmitch> desrt: yeah, I have to see what the ftpmasters say about ironpython
[09:02] <desrt> python seems slightly pwned in edgy atm.
[09:02] <desrt> everything with 'py' anywhere in the name seems held back
[09:02] <ajmitch> only because of the transition to the new policy
[09:03] <ajmitch> where pythonX.Y-foo gets dropped in favour of python-foo
[09:03] <ajmitch> desrt: it should all be installable
[09:04] <dholbach> can somebody of the archive team *please* get jokosher out of binary new
[09:04] <desrt> crikey.  still stuck in purgatory?
[09:09] <Amaranth> dholbach: ouch, it's been in there for weeks hasn't it?
[09:10] <dholbach> Amaranth: some days, yes, but I really don't envy the archive administrator's job
[09:12] <Amaranth> I've got an idea for the GNOME and KDE (and XFCE menus).
[09:13] <sivang> oh my god the ZeroConf thread..
[09:13] <Amaranth> Merge the contents of all 3 into one .menu file and in the .directory files for the KDE/GNOME/XFCE specific things put in OnlyShowIn or NotShowIn lines
[09:13] <Amaranth> oh, and put these .menu and .directory files into a separate package that all 3 desktops depend on
[09:14] <Amaranth> Of course I'm not sure how any menu editor that currently exists would handle this. :)
[09:15] <ajmitch> sivang: is it dead yet?
[09:19] <sivang> ajmitch: Seveas requested it's death, or relocation to sounder, not sure what the outcome is :)
[09:19] <Seveas> sivang, it's been replaced with the mono thread :/
[09:19] <ajmitch> Seveas: as long as that thread doesn't go on for a month as well
[09:21] <sivang> Seveas: I've seen :-/
[09:21] <YokoZar> Is there a security channel?
[09:21] <pitti> YokoZar: not an ubuntu specific one
[09:22] <YokoZar> There were recent updates to libfreetype, I assume security ones.  Do I need to recompile my packages (Wine) that depend on libfreetype?
[09:22] <YokoZar> The update manager didn't display the changes in the package
[09:23] <pitti> YokoZar: no, if a package depends on a library package, then it does not have a code copy and thus does not need a separate update
[09:23] <pitti> YokoZar: that's the main point about shared libs :)
[09:23] <YokoZar> pitti: what bothers me is that the -dev package got updated too
[09:24] <pitti> YokoZar: that's unavoidable
[09:24] <Warbo> Hi, I have tried to file a bug for nvidia-glx but it isn't in Launchpad. Am I in the right place?
[09:24] <YokoZar> pitti: I think I understand why
[09:24] <pitti> YokoZar: we can only update a complete source package (it gets a new version), and thus all the binary packages produced from it get a new version
[09:24] <YokoZar> Yeah, I guess I know that firsthand from my packages, heh
[09:25] <pitti> Warbo: you should be at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-glx/+bugs
[09:25] <YokoZar> Still, shouldn't something be displayed when I click the changes tab in the update notifyer?
[09:25] <pitti> YokoZar: changelogs seem to be broken ATM, that needs a fix by mvo
[09:25] <YokoZar> ahh
[09:25] <Warbo> pitti: Ah thanks, it didn't come up in a search. I even went through the list of packages page by page :)
[09:26] <pitti> YokoZar: read the USN emails in the meantime, or the USN RSS feed or so
[09:26] <YokoZar> Thanks dude
[09:31] <ajmitch> pitti: I think it's l-r-m, not nvidia-glx
[09:31] <ajmitch> but it's too late to tell warbo, oh well
[09:31] <pitti> ajmitch: well, above URL has a fair number of bug reports
[09:31] <desrt> heh.
[09:31] <pitti> ajmitch: but you are right, l-r-m is the source now
[09:31] <ajmitch> and no source package in ubuntu
[09:32] <ajmitch> we'll check with the l-r-m overlords as to whether they should be reassigned 
[09:33] <desrt> seb128; right click on your desktop.  "create new folder"
[09:33] <seb128> desrt: hi
[09:33] <desrt> hi :)
[09:34] <ajmitch> desrt: yes, it doesn't show ,hit f5
[09:34] <desrt> ajmitch; or ^R
[09:34] <desrt> ajmitch; known bug?
[09:34] <ajmitch> I haven't filed it, would be worth looking for it
[09:34] <desrt> k.  i'm searching now
[09:34] <desrt> i'll file it if i don't find anything
[09:34] <seb128> desrt: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=348097
[09:34] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 348097 in File and Folder Operations "need to refresh the view to get a new directory listed" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[09:35] <desrt> ah.  great.  i won't bother you with an ubuntu bug then :)
[09:35] <seb128> ;)
[09:38] <desrt> there comes a time in every boy's life where he has to go to sleep.  in fact, there are many such times.  now is one of those times for me.
[09:38] <desrt> night night, h4x0rs
[09:39] <pitti> desrt: sleep well
[09:39] <seb128> 'night desrt
[09:40] <ajmitch> night desrt 
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: btw, I did some cleanup to the apport-gtk dialog layout in bzr head
[09:40] <pitti> hey sabdfl
[09:40] <sabdfl> moin moin pitti
[09:40] <seb128> pitti: ah, nice, I'll try that later :)
[09:41] <purserj> In case Kamion gets my ping from earlier, I'd liike to withdraw it, found what I was looking for
[10:07] <pitti> mvo: do you think you can clean up the confusing icon/tooltips for u-n soon? (both the 'new packages' and 'crash reports' icons have 'crashreport detected' as tooltip)
[10:10] <mvo> pitti: oh? I have not noticed that
[10:18] <Kamion> purserj: have a look at the kickseed source, handlers/xconfig.sh; it should give you an idea of which debconf questions you need to preseed
[10:18] <Kamion> dholbach: jokosher done, sorry for the delay
[10:18] <Kamion> purserj: oh, ok, fair enough :) (was reading in scrollback order ...)
[10:20] <dholbach> Kamion: thanks a lot
[10:28] <heno> can anyone tell me aprox which versions of xorg and compiz are going into edgy? (I need that for the compiz-mag project)
[10:29] <purserj> Kamion, thanks, I actually found what I was looking for in the casper-udeb
[10:32] <dholbach> does anybody know how I can get netstat to display full hostnames?
[10:34] <infinity> dholbach: Go numeric, and post-process the output. :)
[10:34] <dholbach> infinity: thanks, but I just found the defaulthost in the source of that applet :)
[10:46] <Kamion> dholbach: re infinity's postprocessing suggestion: a useful generic way to do that sort of thing is to install libadns1-bin and pipe stuff through adnsresfilter
[10:47] <dholbach> thanks Kamion for the advice
[10:50] <Kamion> infinity: did you get round to the dapper livefs builds?
[10:50] <infinity> Kamion: If I say yes, and then do so right now, will you notice the timestamps?
[10:50] <Kamion> infinity: maybe ;-)
[10:50] <Kamion> (but I won't care much)
[10:51] <Kamion> evand: I'll have a look at that libxml2-udeb patch now
[10:52] <Kamion> evand: (revu isn't so useful for main packages)
[10:53] <infinity> Kamion: Also, neat trick with adnsresfilter.  Where'd you stumble on that one?
[10:54] <Kamion> infinity: Ian probably mentioned it ages ago (he's upstream)
[10:54] <infinity> Ahh, so I can complain to him directly about the lack of manpage. :P
[10:54] <Kamion> :-)
[10:56] <infinity> Kamion: Are we bothering to do point-releases on the non-release arches (at least, for the desktop CD)?
[10:57] <Kamion> infinity: probably not
[10:57] <Kamion> IIRC we didn't really release those first time round anyway ...
[10:57] <infinity> Not so much, no.
[10:58] <infinity> They were on cdimage, I think, but definitely not on releases.
[10:58] <infinity> I could be wrong, they may not have been built at all.
[10:58] <Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/dapper/release/
[10:59] <Kamion> infinity: but I'm not convinced they were ever actually tested
[10:59] <infinity> yeah, just got there.
[10:59] <infinity> I doubt they were.
[10:59] <Kamion> oh, hey, and that has no desktop CD.
[10:59] <Kamion> perfect.
[10:59] <infinity> I just got a CD-ROM for my hppa in the mail today.
[10:59] <infinity> And I'm pretty sure I'm the one who's supposed to care about the hppa livecd.
[10:59] <infinity> So, yeah.  I'll just fiddle with the other 3 arches. :)
[11:00] <infinity> Uhm, yeah.  the suite is hardcoded right now.  Woo.
[11:00] <infinity> That's easy enough to fix.
[11:00] <infinity> Then to make -updates and -security get pulled in for testing, and we're golden.
[11:02] <pitti> infinity: if I changed pkg-create-dbgsym to not put the .ddebs into the .changes file, do you think it would hurt us to install it into the buildds already? with that, I have time to fix resulting FTBFSes
[11:04] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, that seems fine to me.
[11:06] <pitti> infinity: after we have that, we might even discuss some cowboying (moving the .ddebs to people.u.c, or so)
[11:06] <infinity> Yeah, I can cowboy something at some point. <nod>
[11:06] <pitti> infinity: ok, then I do this modification, upload it, and ask Colin for promotion to main
[11:06] <infinity> It'd just be duplication of the existing translation cowboy.
[11:08] <infinity> Kamion: Snag.
[11:09] <infinity> Kamion: To make this test run work, I'll actually have to make the livefs build script do an update and upgrade. :/
[11:09] <infinity> Kamion: Since you can't debootstrap from multiple sources.
[11:09] <infinity> Kamion: (Well, unless nothing in base has changed)
[11:15] <Kamion> infinity: good point :-/
[11:16] <infinity> Kamion: Oh well.  I'll be ready to test that scariness in a few.
[11:20] <pitti> Kamion: can you please promote pkg-create-dbgsym to main? It's one of our edgy specs, and a native Ubuntu package written by me, so there's not much point in a MIR, at least if that was written by me
[11:20] <pitti> Kamion: if you want someone else to review the package, I'll ask someone
[11:20] <pitti> Kamion: (once you agree, I'll seed the package to supported)
[11:24] <Kamion> pitti: ok, after this publisher run; please go ahead and seed it
[11:24] <pitti> Kamion: thanks, doing now
[11:28] <Keybuk> doko: openoffice.org-draw missing replaces for openoffice.org-core
[11:29] <doko> Keybuk: which version?
[11:30] <Keybuk> current
[11:30] <doko> edgy?
[11:30] <Keybuk> yes
[11:31] <infinity> Kamion: Well, whattayaknow, I'm not an idiot.
[11:31] <infinity> Kamion: Looks like it works.  Just going to wait for it to actuall finish and roll it out to the other buildds for you.
[11:31] <Kamion> cool, thanks
[11:32] <pitti> Kamion: seeded in all 4 derivatives
[11:33] <Kamion> thank
[11:33] <Kamion> s
[11:33] <infinity> doko: Of course, if that's true of edgy, it's probably also true of dapper-updates.
[11:33] <infinity> s/updates/proposed/
[11:36] <jono> hi all
[11:38] <doko> infinity: I don't think so: openoffice.org-draw does have a conflict with -core (<< 2.0.3-3). 
[11:39] <doko> Keybuk: from which version did you upgrade?
[11:39] <Keybuk> whatever was in edgy before
[11:39] <Keybuk> *checks*
[11:39] <Keybuk> I had 2.0.2-2ubuntu12
[11:39] <Keybuk> and installed 2.0.3-3ubuntu4
[11:39] <Keybuk> (of draw)
[11:40] <Keybuk> installing same version of -core
[11:40] <Keybuk> replaced same version also
[11:41] <shenki> Keybuk: for me atleast, the conflict was because -core and -draw both contain /usr/lib/openoffice/program/libflash680li.so
[11:41] <Keybuk> shenki: me also
[11:41] <Keybuk> doko: lies
[11:41] <Keybuk> doko: openoffice.org-draw does not contain a conflict with -core
[11:41] <Keybuk> it conflicts with -draw (which is entirely useless :p)
[11:41] <Keybuk> thinko?
[11:42] <doko> ohh, I see: Conflicts: openoffice.org-debian-files, openoffice.org2-draw (<< ${Source-Version}) openoffice.org-core (<< 2.0.3-3)
[11:42] <doko> missing comma ...
[11:42] <mjr> 39
[11:42] <infinity> Whoops.
[11:43] <doko> I love the control file parser ...
[11:44] <doko> infinity: no, I'll disable the import of the language data, nothing did change, so it should be faster.
[11:44] <infinity> doko: Erm, how's that work?
[11:45] <doko> infinity: I don't build them
[11:46] <infinity> ... but the resulting binaries don't end up different?
[11:46] <infinity> doko: Or are you just talking about the -l10n source?
[11:48] <infinity> doko: I guess what I'm confused about is that if a binary package is directly built from a source package (as we, y'know, tend to do), how can you need to build something on one upload, and not the next? :)
[11:48] <doko> infinity: no; the openoffice.org package creates .po files in debian/l0n, which pkgstripstranslation saves. they don't touch the binary packages. if pkgstriptranslations doesn't find them, the packages are not touched
[11:48] <infinity> doko: Ahh, I see what you mean.  Of course, that means a security update would also not build those, unless someone remember to turn it back on.
[11:49] <infinity> (Not that I can imagine a security update touching those strings, but... It's happened in the past, oddly enough)
[11:49] <janimo> infinity: are the livefs builds good now?
[11:49] <janimo> xubuntu is still oversized
[11:49] <infinity> janimo: For which dist/release?
[11:49] <infinity> janimo: I'm fiddling with dapper.1 testing right now.
[11:50] <janimo> edgy daily-live
[11:50] <infinity> janimo: Ahh, no idea what the deal is with edgy right now.
[11:50] <infinity> janimo: Oh, it's uninstallable.
[11:50] <infinity>   xubuntu-desktop: Depends: gnome-accessibility-themes but it is not going to be installed
[11:50] <infinity> Hence, no new livefs for you.
[11:50] <janimo> infinity: I see
[11:51] <infinity> janimo: Oh, actually, today's daily succeeded.  So the next cdimage daily should fix you up.
[11:51] <infinity> janimo: That paste was from yesterday's log.
[11:52] <janimo> ok, since I thought I fixed xubuntu-desktop yesterday
[11:52] <janimo> thanks
[11:53] <doko> infinity: Agreed, but does a security update touch the language data?
[11:54] <infinity> doko: Very rarely, but like I said, I've seen it happen.
[11:54] <infinity> doko: It's pretty rare for a security update to require a documentation change, though.
[11:54] <infinity> (Or a string change of any sort)
[11:55] <infinity> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ia32-libs-gtk_17_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[11:55] <infinity>  trying to overwrite `/etc/bonobo-activation/bonobo-activation-config.xml', which is also in package libbonobo2-common
[11:55] <infinity> And a "woo-hoo" to that.
[11:58] <dholbach> Kamion, mdz: ok for me to upload a tango-icon-theme cvs checkout? upstream seems reluctant to make a new release, but they fixed a couple of issues and the art team requested a package (because of changed shadows in the svg icons) - do you want me to file a bug for that?
[12:01] <janimo> infinity: anything in particular that I need to help with for xubuntu dapper.1?
[12:01] <Kamion> doko: surely file-moved-to-a-different-package should be Replaces not Conflicts
[12:01] <doko> infinity: I hate apes :-/
[12:01] <infinity> janimo: Testing images when we publish them, obviously.  Other than that, unless you've made major changes to your stuff, you should be alright.
[12:02] <pygi> mdke, poke
[12:02] <Kamion> dholbach: yeah, that's ok to upload
[12:02] <dholbach> Kamion: Gracias!
[12:03] <mdke> pygi: hello
[12:03] <pygi> mdke, hey hey
[12:03] <infinity> Kamion: Alright, amd64 build made it all the way to the end and seems happy.  Propagating my hacks all over now.
[12:03] <mdke> pygi: hi. What can I do for you?
[12:05] <pygi> mdke, nothing much, wanted to discuss that firefox thingy if you have time :)
[12:05] <mdke> pygi: are you sure you have the right person?
[12:05] <mdke> I don't know much about firefox
[12:05] <Gloubiboulga> Kamion, hi! could you promote python-exo binary to main? the source package (exo) is already in main
[12:06] <pygi> mdke, the thing about helper applications? :)
[12:06] <mdke> pygi: ah, right. go ahead
[12:06] <Kamion> pitti: pkg-create-dbgsym promoted
[12:07] <pitti> Kamion: thanks
[12:07] <Kamion> er, no it's not, WTF
[12:07] <Kamion> 10:07:09 INFO    Override Component to: 'main'
[12:07] <Kamion> 10:07:09 ERROR   u'Source package pkg-create-dbgsym not published in edgy'
[12:07] <Kamion> 10:07:09 INFO    Commiting transaction, changes will be visible after next publisher run.
[12:07] <pitti> infinity: can you please install pkg-create-dbgsym into the buildds?
[12:07] <pygi> mdke, so, I kinda doubt I'll be able to work on this for edgy (especially when looked at huge firefox codebase), but edgy+1 might be doable 
[12:07] <pitti> Kamion: hm, is that ERROR something to worry about?
[12:07] <pygi> mdke, altought I know that's another postponing
[12:07] <Kamion> yes
[12:08] <Keybuk> Kamion: no such package in the archive
[12:08] <Kamion> Gloubiboulga: done
[12:08] <Kamion> Keybuk: pkg-create-dbgsym |        0.3 | edgy/universe | source, all
[12:08] <Keybuk> hmm, madison sees it
[12:08] <Gloubiboulga> Kamion, thanks
[12:08] <Keybuk> ahh
[12:08] <Keybuk> there's an 0.4 pending
[12:08] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pkg-create-dbgsym
[12:08] <mdke> pygi: I'm thrilled that you could work on it. I thought, in my uneducated way, that it would be very simple, because there must be some code that gets called by nautilus when doing the same operation, that can just be transplanted. but I don't know anything about that
[12:09] <Keybuk> this is the safety to stop change-override breaking publisher runs
[12:09] <Keybuk> pitti: did you just upload a new version?
[12:09] <Kamion> oh, I see
[12:09] <Kamion> bizarre way to do it
[12:09] <infinity> Kamion: Okay, I'm building you a matching powerpc and i386 image too, so we can roll ISOs for kicks.
[12:09] <Keybuk> Kamion: it's because publisher can't tell the difference between a new version and a change of overrides
[12:09] <pygi> mdke, probably, but firefox codebase is huge, and I already have a lot of stuff to do for edgy, and outside ubuntu world
[12:09] <Kamion> Keybuk: yeah, but the error message sucks
[12:09] <Keybuk> Kamion: *shock*
[12:10] <infinity> Kamion: To trigger builds yourself, just do "BuildLiveCD -d dapper ubuntu kubuntu ..."
[12:10] <Keybuk> the error message is entirely accurate, if misleading
[12:10] <Kamion> infinity: cool, thanks
[12:10] <Keybuk> not _published_ in edgy
[12:10] <infinity> Kamion: The argument placement is positional, cause I'm lazy.
[12:10] <Keybuk> (it's pending :p)
[12:10] <Kamion> Keybuk: pkg-create-dbgsym 0.3 is published in edgy, so no, it's not accurate
[12:10] <mdke> pygi: well anything you can do with be appreciated I'm sure. If you get a patch, just attach it to the bug report, I guess, and Ian can take a look
[12:11] <Keybuk> Kamion: it's still an improvement on "la la la, I just fucked the archive" :p
[12:11] <pygi> mdke, ok, iwj =P
[12:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54638 in soyuz "change-override.py message when new source is pending is very confusing" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54638
[12:12] <Kamion> Keybuk: true
[12:13] <Kamion> Keybuk: (do you happen to know what form its archive-breakage took?)
[12:13] <Keybuk> Kamion: either one of
[12:13] <Keybuk> a) upload being ignored and never published
[12:14] <Keybuk> b) override being ignored and never done
[12:14] <Keybuk> c) both being taken, and failing later sanity checks resulting in an "ignoring both upload and override" error
[12:14] <Keybuk> depending on the exact point in the publisher run you did the override
[12:15] <Kamion> fun
[12:15] <Kamion> maswan: could you trigger a releases.ubuntu.com mirror pull? the auto-trigger doesn't seem to be working (at least not at any kind of reasonable speed), and we have a text change to releases.ubuntu.com/dapper/ that we need to get published within the next two hours or so
[12:19] <infinity> 6.06.1
[12:20] <infinity> I look forward to 6.06.6
[12:20] <ivoks> :)
[12:20] <pitti> Keybuk, Kamion: yep, sorry, I recently uploaded 0.4
[12:20] <ivoks> hi pitti 
[12:21] <pitti> hi ivoks, enjoyed your vac?
[12:22] <ivoks> i'm still on vacation :)
[12:22] <ivoks> but i'm working on a cups-configure-everythin gui
[12:22] <pitti> ivoks: happy with current edgy's cupsys? :)
[12:22] <ivoks> :)
[12:23] <ivoks> pitti: since i'm on GPRS, i don't upgrade too often :/
[12:23] <Fujitsu> And what timeframe is expected? Hours, days?
[12:24] <ivoks> pitti: as soon as it gets usable, i'll contact you to comment it
[12:27] <pitti> infinity: right, please do not install pkg-create-dbgsym before 0.4
[12:28] <infinity> pitti: Yes, massa.
[12:28] <pitti> infinity: (sorry for not mentioning that earlier)
[12:28] <infinity> pitti: S'ok, I'm too busy being Kamion's bitch to be yours anyway. ;)
[12:31] <Keybuk> siretart: ping-a-lingy-ling
[12:31] <tseng> Keybuk: inspired email on f-spot
[12:32] <Keybuk> tseng: I wanted to make a bold statement
[12:32] <siretart> Keybuk: yes?
[12:33] <Keybuk> siretart: so, I've been debugging why NetworkManager fails to work with Atheros at the moment
[12:33] <Keybuk> it's not just that it fals to work, it actually leaves the card/driver seriously jammed
[12:33] <Keybuk> and it's not NetworkManager
[12:33] <Keybuk> it's wpa_supplicant
[12:34] <siretart> oha
[12:34] <siretart> you're talking about the new world order madwifi, no?
[12:35] <Keybuk> old madwifi, afaik
[12:35] <siretart> hm
[12:36] <siretart> so edgy will still ship with madwifi-old, despite upstream refusing to give any support for it?
[12:36] <Keybuk> edgy has both, just like dapper
[12:37] <infinity> No, my next LRM upload will drop madwifi-old, unless my decision there is overridden.
[12:37] <siretart> Keybuk: anyway, the wpa_supplicant in edgy doesn't support madwifi-old at all. I was told that the new madwifi was the way for edgy
[12:37] <infinity> That was meant to happen when edgy opened, but "suff came up".
[12:37] <Keybuk> siretart: this explains things
[12:37] <Keybuk> it doesn't just "not support" it
[12:37] <Keybuk> it fucks it with a chainsaw
[12:38] <siretart> Keybuk: the source package however contains 2 patches. by default the new world order headers are enabled. it is trivial to comment that out and take the old headers
[12:38] <siretart> Keybuk: but you need to recompile that manually
[12:38] <lfittl> infinity: will the next l-r-m upload include fglrx 8.27.10?
[12:38] <infinity> lfittl: Yes.
[12:38] <Keybuk> siretart: tbh, it's probably easier to switch to -ng for testing purposes
[12:39] <infinity> lfittl: That's pretty much required, since we're updating to Xorg 7.1
[12:39] <siretart> Keybuk: right
[12:39] <siretart> Keybuk: btw, you rejected the sync of config-manager. whats the point of it? I mean, the version we currently have hasn't got any testing at all, obviously
[12:40] <lfittl> infinity: I know, have created my local l-r-m build as soon as fglrx with 7.1 support was released :)
[12:40] <siretart> the version to be synced has been tested at least in sid and etch, after all
[12:40] <Keybuk> siretart: because you wanted a sync to dapper-updates of a 15,000 line change
[12:40] <Keybuk> this, to me, is not an "update
[12:40] <siretart> yes. the old package is pretty fucked
[12:41] <siretart> Keybuk: alternatively, we could put it into -backports. which leads me to the question, does this work in the meantime?
[12:41] <Keybuk> siretart: does what work?
[12:41] <siretart> 'syncing' of package to dapper-backports
[12:42] <Kamion> siretart: no
[12:42] <Kamion> we haven't ported the tools yet
[12:42] <siretart> hrmpf
[12:42] <siretart> ok
[12:42] <Keybuk> heh
[12:42] <Kamion> it was never a sync, it was a rebuild with a lower version number
[12:42] <Keybuk> yeah, I like those accumulating backport requests
[12:42] <Kamion> I've been meaning to poke at it for a while
[12:43] <siretart> Keybuk: anyway. I still think that the 15k line diff is appropriate for config-manager in -updates. if this doesn't meet policy for -updates, then let's get it to -backports
[12:51] <infinity> Kamion: Okay, whenever you want to attempt to spin dapper ISOs, there are livefs builds waiting for you.
[12:52] <Kamion> I'm just going through Fabio's sparc stuff first
[12:52] <Kamion> thanks!
[12:53] <gnomefreak> are the points gonna be download only?
[12:53] <Kamion> gnomefreak: we expect to be updating shipit
[12:53] <gnomefreak> ok
[12:53] <Kamion> though the current stock will go out first
[12:54] <lfittl> mako: ping
[12:55] <Keybuk> pitti: ping
[12:55] <pitti> Keybuk: pong
[12:55] <Keybuk> pitti: belocs-locales-data
[12:55] <Keybuk> could you check that to see whether it's ok to sync from Debian and drop your patch to it?
[12:57] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, did Debian adopt our scripts?
[12:58] <Keybuk> Debian appear to have changed a lot of the way locales are installed
[12:59] <dholbach> whiprush, jdub: do you know who approved the 'ust' post on the fridge?
[12:59] <pitti> Keybuk: well, our changes are not adopted (wouldn't make too much sense for Debian), but we do not really *need* this change
[12:59] <pitti> Keybuk: instead, I should synchronize the new locales data to our locales package
[01:01] <pitti> Keybuk: we needed this patch for breezy and older, but now that we actually use the belocs locales, there is little reason to install b-locales-data
[01:02] <Keybuk> right
[01:02] <Keybuk> why do we have separate packages in the archive?
[01:02] <pitti> Keybuk: originally we split out the locales to the langpacks
[01:03] <pitti> Keybuk: but we reverted this for a couple of reasons
[01:03] <pitti> Keybuk: since then, jbailey wanted me to keep them separate from the other locale-related data to be able to update them post-release
[01:03] <pitti> Keybuk: we could as well do that with b-l-d, though
[01:05] <Keybuk> so, in summary, should I reject the sync request for this or not?
[01:05] <pitti> Keybuk: ok for me to ditch the change
[01:05] <pitti> Keybuk: I add it to my todo to clean this up 
[01:09] <StevenK> Keybuk: Do you have time to look over my n-m 0.6.4 changes?
[01:10] <Keybuk> StevenK: in a few minutes, sure
[01:10] <Keybuk> can you isolate your changes from the upstream ones though?
[01:10] <Keybuk> provide me two patches, one the upstream diff from 0.6.3 -> 0.6.4
[01:10] <Keybuk> and the other your changes
[01:11] <StevenK> Sure. Gimme a few ticks.
[01:11] <shawarma> Keybuk: I just saw you and siretart talking about madwifi-old vs. madwifi-ng support in wpasupplicant. I have a patch lying around that lets it support both, if you want it?
[01:11] <Keybuk> StevenK: also make sure the changes are from the current n-m
[01:12] <Keybuk> I uploaded a new one within the last 24 hours :)
[01:12] <siretart> shawarma: there was a debian bug about this
[01:12] <siretart> shawarma: we were offered a patch for this in the past, but we rejected it. rationale in that bug
[01:12] <shawarma> siretart: link?
[01:13] <StevenK> Ewwwwww, the upstream diff is 680K
[01:13] <sabdfl> StevenK: coffee?
[01:14] <shawarma> siretart: I attached the wpasupplicant patch (and a networkmanager patch to match it) to bug 37773.
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37773 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 "[madwifi]  Semi-random system lockups in Dapper" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37773
[01:14] <siretart> shawarma: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354388
[01:15] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 354388 in wpasupplicant "Subject: wpasupplicant: please recompile with madwifi-dev" [Wishlist,Closed]  
[01:15] <siretart> maybe there was an other bug about this as well
[01:17] <shawarma> siretart: That sure is a long bug report.. :-)
[01:17] <siretart> shawarma: short: madwifi-old is dead code. nobody is working on it, upstream refuses to support it, let it die
[01:18] <siretart> shawarma: the next generation of the driver is released regularily, gets support, is shiny. 
[01:20] <shawarma> siretart: right. My patch was meant for the dapper packages, since dapper uses madwifi-old where at all possible, and the madwifi-ng modules in dapper does not work with the wpasupplicant in dapper. :-(
[01:21] <siretart> shawarma: there will be an updated wpasupplicant package for use with madwifi-ng in dapper-backports. it was requested some time ago
[01:21] <shawarma> siretart: But it's good news that they support the wext backend now. Yay.
[01:21] <shawarma> siretart: Yeah, I talked to infinity about it at UDS. I dont know what the status is.
[01:23] <shawarma> siretart: Will that be accompanied by an updated network-manager package that can detect if you're using madwifi-ng and if so pass the proper option to wpasupplicant?
[01:26] <shawarma> siretart: Do you know who is doing it? I'll bug him instead. :-)
[01:30] <siretart> shawarma: I don't know about network-manager, nor do I use it personally
[01:30] <siretart> shawarma: up to now, I was focusing on wpasupplicant, which gives me enough headaches about roaming ;)
[01:31] <shawarma> siretart: You are making the wpasupp package for -updates?
[01:31] <tepsipakki> is the wget in busybox broken atm? The installer can't load a preseed file with wget ("unknown server error")
[01:31] <tepsipakki> network is up
[01:33] <siretart> shawarma: I don't know about a wapsupp package for dapper-updates. I told you before about a wpasupplicant package for -backports
[01:37] <shawarma> siretart: Ah, my mistake.
[01:44] <lifeless> Keybuk: that would rock
[01:47] <Keybuk> lifeless: what would?
[01:48] <lifeless> login screen during initramfs :)
[01:49] <Keybuk> ah
[01:51] <mjg59> Keybuk: It shouldn't actually be /too/ hard to port usplash to svgalib
[01:51] <mdke> who knows when the next community council meeting is? there wasn't one last week, right?
[01:51] <Keybuk> mjg59: aye, isn't svgalib considered scary though?
[01:51] <Keybuk> mdke: checked the fridge calendar?
[01:52] <mjg59> Keybuk: It's scary because applications need to be suid root to make the bios call
[01:52] <mdke> Keybuk: yes
[01:53] <mjg59> Keybuk: So in our case, I don't think that's an issue. We'd just run it as root rather than making it suid.
[01:53] <Keybuk> ah, that's true
[01:54] <mjg59> It looks like vgagl is a reasonable replacement for bogl
[01:54] <mjg59> It would just be another backend
[01:55] <mjg59> Keybuk: Only problem then would be hardwiring the vesa mode
[01:55] <mjg59> We could drop vga16fb at that stage, which might improve life for a small number of people
[01:56] <mjg59> I'll take a look at it in my copious spare time? (Unless you want to)
[01:56] <Kamion> in case anyone's wondering, yes, it is deliberate that cdimage/daily-live/ currently has dapper-desktop-*
[01:56] <Keybuk> mjg59: I may also look at it in my CST
[01:57] <Keybuk> at some point I need to do the theming changes I have planned, probably not until Wiesbaden though
[01:59] <rodarvus> pitti, when you have some time, I'd like to ask you to take a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/54290
[01:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54290 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "synaptics driver fails to load (dlopen error)" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  
[02:00] <pitti> rodarvus: sweet!
[02:00] <rodarvus> what is your opinion - should we try to maintain stack protection enabled? (i.e., do you think his approach is correct?)
[02:04] <pitti> rodarvus: LD=gcc sounds a bit like a hack, but I don't see anything too bad about it
[02:04] <azeem> 2
[02:05] <azeem> eh, sorry
[02:05] <infinity> Oh, FFS...
[02:11] <Keybuk> mdz: I'd left #6367 open simply because of the screaming children if I'd closed it while the bug was in dapper
[02:11] <Keybuk> it's been fixed in edgy since ages
[02:11] <infinity> pitti: chroots updated for you with your fancy new thingamajig.
[02:20] <StevenK> Keybuk: Right, two patches ready.
[02:20] <StevenK> Keybuk: If you have time now, that is.
[02:20] <Keybuk> yup
[02:20] <StevenK> Keybuk: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/nm/patches/
[02:21] <StevenK> Keybuk: The 0.6.3 -> 0.6.4 diff is scary.
[02:21] <Keybuk> StevenK: the debugging patch should go to Debian
[02:21] <Keybuk> please add it to the BTS
[02:21] <StevenK> Sure.
[02:22] <StevenK> That's just debian/control, from memory.
[02:22] <dholbach> Is Matthew Revell in here?
[02:22] <StevenK> Keybuk: Hobbsee saw a SEGV, so I added them back in self defense. :-)
[02:22] <Keybuk> StevenK: and debian/rules, surely?
[02:22] <tseng> dholbach: jono would know him
[02:22] <Treenaks> dholbach: he's on #lugradio
[02:22] <StevenK> Keybuk: cdbs seemed to just cope.
[02:22] <dholbach> tseng, Treenaks: thanks
[02:22] <Treenaks> dholbach: uhr, if he's online, that is
[02:22] <jono> dholbach, I know matt
[02:23] <Keybuk> StevenK: oh, maybe
[02:23] <Keybuk> StevenK: the patch jiggle I assume is due to 0.6.4 changes?  that patch applied fine to 0.6.3
[02:23] <dholbach> jono, Treenaks, tseng: i wanted to talk to him as he seems to have become a fridge editor
[02:23] <jono> dholbach, he matthewrevell
[02:23] <StevenK> Keybuk: Correct.
[02:23] <jono> dholbach, well I think he is editing with a bunch of other guys
[02:23] <Treenaks> dholbach: oh no! the lugradio people are infiltrating the world! ;)
[02:23] <Keybuk> StevenK: which Ubuntu bugs are fixed by the upstream changes?
[02:23] <StevenK> Keybuk: It was the only one that needed jiggling, the others were fine.
[02:24] <jono> Treenaks, :P
[02:25] <Keybuk> StevenK: you just say "New upstream release" in the changelog without saying what it actually changes
[02:25] <Kamion> doko: do your OOo uploads to dapper-proposed include pitti's security fixes from dapper-security?
[02:26] <Kamion> (it's so hard to tell ...)
[02:26] <doko> Kamion: yes, it's fixed upstream in 2.0.3
[02:26] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[02:27] <StevenK> Keybuk: The upstream release is a bug-fix release. I can correlate between the upstream changelog and bugs in Malone.
[02:27] <Keybuk> StevenK: right, but it doesn't seem to fix any bugs from what I can tell
[02:27] <Keybuk> at least, none that have affected us
[02:28] <Keybuk> without further detail, I can't see anything in that patch worth a UVF exception
[02:28] <doko> Kamion: could we have http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/edgy_probs.html for dapper as well (one for dapper-updates and one for dapper-proposed) ?
[02:28] <Keybuk> attach the patch for the -dbg stuff to the Debian BTS, and we can pick that up that way
[02:29] <StevenK> Keybuk: I already managed to get a UVF exception, mdz granted it.
[02:29] <Keybuk> StevenK: I'm ungranting it then <g>
[02:29] <StevenK> Kay.
[02:29] <Keybuk> there's no reason for us to move ahead of Debian here
[02:29] <Keybuk> it doesn't fix any problems we've got with NM fwict
[02:30] <Keybuk> I really don't want to spend much energy on NM for edgy
[02:30] <Keybuk> it's not ready upstream, and a minor release or two won't make it significantly better
[02:31] <Keybuk> it's in a "merge from Debian if there's useful bug fixes" holding pattern
[02:31] <Kamion> doko: I saw your earlier comment, just haven't got to checking whether it's feasible yet
[02:31] <Keybuk> it works for maybe ~20% of people at the moment
[02:32] <StevenK> Keybuk: I'm happy to be in that 20%. It's good when it works.
[02:32] <doko> Kamion: ok, thanks
[02:33] <Keybuk> StevenK: file a wishlist in Debian, and detail the upstream changes for them -- if they update it, we can merge from them cheaply
[02:33] <Hobbsee> hi all
[02:33] <StevenK> Keybuk: Geez, two bugs? :-P
[02:34] <Keybuk> sure, why not?
[02:35] <StevenK> Keybuk: I'm bitching for the sake of bitching. :-)
[02:35] <Keybuk> hehe
[02:35] <Hobbsee> ooh yay, can i join in?
[02:36] <StevenK> Hah
[02:37] <StevenK> Drat, someone already beat me to the 0.6.4 new upstream bug.
[02:37] <Hobbsee> the wpa bugs are marked as fix released?
[02:38] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Every second bug mentions WPA.
[02:38] <Hobbsee> StevenK: true
[02:39] <StevenK> Well, 5 bugs out of 62 in the subject...
[02:39] <Hobbsee> hehe, right
[02:44] <Kamion> doko: I'm trying to do it; dunno if britney can easily handle multiple suites though
[02:44] <Kamion> may need to come up with some evil way to deduplicate the Packages file if I'm unlucky
[02:50] <seb128> if I understand correctly, there is a dapper point version planned?
[02:51] <seb128> does it includes fixes from dapper-updates? when is it planned?
[02:51] <Kamion> seb128: dapper-updates> yes
[02:51] <Kamion> seb128: this week, as I noted in last week's meeting
[02:51] <Kamion> see the meeting logs
[02:51] <seb128> k, that's what I understood, just making sure
[02:52] <seb128> I'm slightly disapointed than nobody did some sort of announce
[02:52] <seb128> we have a stock on desktop fixes pending
[02:52] <seb128> I would have scheduled them before other things if I had knew before
[02:52] <seb128> s#stock#stack
[02:52] <Kamion> I've announced it in two consecutive distro team meetings
[02:53] <Kamion> I'm sorry you didn't see that but I tried
[02:53] <seb128> you mentionned working for the point version
[02:53] <Kamion> I do expect members of all major teams to be paying attention to the distro team meetings
[02:54] <seb128> but it was not clear that was such notice and I was expecting we would get a "now is time to get fixes uploaded for it" mail or something on time
[02:54] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2006-07-28.html around 01:28
[02:54] <Kamion> 01:28	Kamion	  dapper-point-release-process: Do the first Dapper point release. Most of the pieces are in place now; if you know of something that needs to go in, please tell me as soon as possible! (If I can squeeze in some required SPARC fixes, I will.)
[02:54] <Kamion> 01:28	mdz	Kamion: do you have an approximate timeline for the point release?
[02:54] <Kamion> 01:29	Kamion	mdz: I'd like it to end by the middle of next week; if infinity could start on livefs builds tomorrow, that would be lovely
[02:54] <Kamion> well, now is the time. go forth and upload.
[02:55] <seb128> yeah, I've read that one, but that's a bit late
[02:55] <Kamion> you still have a couple of days, I expect
[02:55] <seb128> I prefer doing uploads some time before in case something goes not alright
[02:55] <Kamion> look, I'm sorry, but it would be better now to get on with it rather than complaining at me
[02:55] <seb128> yeah, but I'm not that comfortable pushing point version of GNOME a week before
[02:55] <Kamion> we all have a lot to do
[02:55] <seb128> sure
[02:56] <Kamion> and DapperPointReleaseProcess has been there since Paris
[02:56] <seb128> ok, let's take that as "next time it would be nice to send a mail some weeks ago as a reminder"
[02:56] <infinity> Oh, did we not get the GNOME port release rescheduled, as we'd hoped?
[02:56] <infinity> s/port/point/
[02:57] <seb128> Kamion: ok, sorry, I should have looked at that, too many lists, wiki, etc to follow, easy to loose track of something
[02:58] <Kamion> also http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2006-07-20.html
[02:58] <Kamion> 05:45Kamionwith regard to dapper updates, I think we're still reasonably on-target for an early-August dapper point release, although I need to poke the Soyuz team about status of some of the things we were planning to rely on there
[02:58] <seb128> dholbach: would be nice to have point releases on the fridge wiki :)
[02:59] <dholbach> seb128: i'm not a fridge editor :)
[02:59] <Kamion> seb128: it's possible that it will drag out until the end of this week or so; I'm working Saturday and Sunday due to a couple of swapped days
[03:00] <seb128> Kamion: right, I've read them mentioned on the meetings, I was just somewhere expecting we would get an announce mail pointing it was time to get things done for it when it would be time (like we got mail for UVF, freezes, meetings, etc)
[03:00] <Kamion> ok, sorry I forgot about that
[03:00] <seb128> Kamion: no big deal anyway, sorry for the noise
[03:00] <seb128> I will try to push the fixes I'm confidents about today or tomorrow
[03:01] <Kamion> thanks
[03:01] <seb128> np
[03:45] <bddebian> Morning
[03:45] <bddebian> Thanks Keybuk
[03:50] <trafiq> hi. any idea why when compiling 2.6.17.7 ( edgy eft ) i have error http://wklej.org/id/3d7a494223 : and cant finish compile ... 
[03:51] <infinity> trafiq: -fno-stack-protector
[03:51] <infinity> trafiq: Add that to CFLAGS in the upstream makefile.
[03:51] <keNzi> http://rafb.net/paste/results/A41fyi77.html
[03:51] <keNzi> anyone got an idea ?
[03:51] <zul> yeah do what infinity said
[03:51] <infinity> keNzi: Same answer.
[03:52] <keNzi> thanx
[03:52] <trafiq> infinity, make-kpkg -initrd -fno-stack-protector --revision=386 kernel_image kernel_headers modules_image ? : >
[03:52] <infinity> trafiq: No, edit the Makefile.
[03:53] <trafiq> mhm ok i must read about it im newbie but thx
[04:05] <jsgotangco> last-exit nice!
[04:18] <pitti> BenC: do you think we can meet this week to discuss the crash handling approach
[04:21] <BenC> pitti: yeah, when's a good time for you (I'm open to almost any time)
[04:21] <pitti> BenC: for me, too
[04:21] <pitti> right now if you want
[04:26] <jono> it has to be said, dholbach rocks good and hard
[04:28] <infinity> BACK OFF, HE'S MINE.
[04:28] <dholbach> hahahaha
[04:28] <infinity> dholbach: Slut.
[04:28] <dholbach> ts ts ts ts
[04:28] <dholbach> language, mr. conrad
[04:29] <doko> Kamion: more ia32-libs* stuff for d-u: ia32-libs: updated libfreetype6 and libtiff4, ia32-libs-openoffice.org: libnss3, libnspr4, libneon25
[04:29] <infinity> Oh, right.  Uhm.  What's the polite way to say that? :)
[04:29] <doko> pitti: ^^^ missed these for -security?
[04:29] <infinity> dholbach: Promiscuous tart!
[04:29] <dholbach> infinity: LOL! I should have a T-Shirt with that on.
[04:29] <pitti> doko: argh, yes
[04:30] <jono> heh
[04:30] <pitti> doko: I keep forgetting that not all packages build their own 32/64 bit mix
[04:30] <BenC> pitti: I've got a lot of email to catch up on, so how about later today, or tomorrow morning
[04:31] <pitti> BenC: sure
[04:31] <jono> is Troy James Sobotka here?
[04:31] <doko> pitti: if you prepare these for -security, please name them not .1 (already using that), maybe .0?
[04:32] <Kamion> doko: yes
[04:32] <pitti> doko: 0.1?
[04:34] <doko> pitti: as you like it
[04:34] <mdke> jono: he is troy_s 
[04:34] <jono> ahhh thanks mdke 
[04:34] <doko> pitti: I didn't check -gtk and -kde for security fixes
[04:35] <mdke> troy_s: you should have some contact details on your personal wiki page so that people like jono can find you easily and grab you. Or link to your launchpad details
[04:37] <keNzi> 1 question
[04:37] <keNzi> why aptitude is loading cache so long - like 2 minutes
[04:37] <keNzi> ?
[04:38] <keNzi> http://rafb.net/paste/results/WXwMmF32.html
[04:38] <keNzi> its my sources.list
[04:38] <tseng> read the topic, this is not a support channel
[04:51] <trafiq> infinity,  thx for helpworking
[04:51] <trafiq> :)
[04:55] <siretart> the ubuntu team is planning a new install tool called ust?
[04:55] <siretart> did I miss something?
[04:55] <siretart> http://www.pro-linux.de/news/2006/10025.html (sorry, german, but you get the idea)
[04:56] <mdke> I don't think that "the ubuntu team" is quite accurate
[04:56] <azeem> siretart: it's s/install tool/config tool/ in the body
[04:56] <siretart> azeem: that doesn't make it much better, imo
[04:57] <mdke> it's a private initiative, I thought
[04:57] <siretart> the news sounds like it was something from the ubuntu devs. looks like a cli tool like yast.. hm
[04:57] <mdz> Kamion: how are things looking for the point release?
[04:58] <mdke> siretart: the project was posted to the fridge, and probably got taken seriously because of that. I have removed it
[04:58] <azeem> mdke: yeah, they say their source was the fridge
[04:58] <mdke> right
[04:58] <azeem> I'm mailing the author
[04:58] <mdz> siretart: sounds like it's referring to the gst-to-umbrella spec
[04:59] <mdke> azeem: thanks, and apologies for that confusion
[05:00] <siretart> mdz: has http://sourceforge.net/projects/ust/ something to do with gst-to-umbrella?
[05:00] <siretart> azeem: ah, ok, then I can close my mutt now :P
[05:01] <mdz> siretart: dunno, I was just intuiting without being able to read much German ;-)
[05:01] <siretart> ;)
[05:01] <azeem> done
[05:01] <siretart> thanks azeem 
[05:03] <dholbach> siretart: i left a message in their forum
[05:03] <dholbach> siretart: and wrote a mail to the fridge editors
[05:03] <dholbach> siretart: golem.de also took the ust article on the fridge serious
[05:05] <mdke> dholbach: we removed the article from the fridge
[05:05] <azeem> is anybody allowed to post to the fridge?
[05:05] <mdke> azeem: you can mail fridge-devel@lists with ideas for articles
[05:06] <dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge
[05:08] <lamont> bddebian: I've been around, but yeah, kinda busy
[05:09] <vodka-monk> hello my ubuntu friends
[05:09] <Hobbsee> hi lamont.  so we can pinch (more) of your merges without a problem?
[05:11] <bddebian> Hi lamont.  No worries, I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't offend if I did some of your merges.
[05:11] <lamont> in universe?  have at it
[05:12] <Hobbsee> bddebian: all merges are fair game by now :P
[05:12] <lamont> think of /me in universe as just a MOTU gone crazy...
[05:12] <vodka-monk> nick dubuntu
[05:12] <bddebian> lamont: :-)
[05:12] <bddebian> mdz: Do you know of anyone else working on mythtv stuff?
[05:13] <Hobbsee> bddebian: there was someone, i think
[05:13] <Hobbsee> lamont: you mean you're not all the time?  ;P
[05:13] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Says you :-) (merges)
[05:13] <vodka-monk> is possible to take output from my laptop to external lcd ?
[05:13] <Hobbsee> bddebian: hehhe
[05:13] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Yeah, I thought someone mentioned FunnyLookinHat or FliesLikeABrick
[05:14] <pitti> BenC: did anyone else complain about PC speaker beeping being broken since edgy?
[05:15] <mdz> bddebian: I think christian marillat was working on it at one time
[05:15] <mdz> pitti: mine is working OK
[05:15] <madduck> mh, so simon law gives a talk at UW, but the talk can only be downloaded in proprietary formats...
[05:15] <madduck> :(
[05:15] <mdz> pitti: I seem to have pcspkr in /etc/modules though
[05:15] <madduck> i would have really liked to see it, but i only have amd64, which can't play any...
[05:16] <mdz> madduck: that's surely UW's fault, and not Simon's
[05:16] <mdz> or #ubuntu-devel's
[05:16] <madduck> mdz: i wasn't accusing...
[05:16] <pitti> mdz: the module is loaded, too, but it doesn't beep; it's the source of many missed IRC pings for me :/
[05:19] <BenC> pitti: not that I'm aware of
[05:19] <pitti> BenC: ok, thanks
[05:31] <sfllaw> madduck: I'll see if I can get that fixed.
[05:32] <Hobbsee> sfllaw: or anyone else.  how's the best way to get in touch with upstream, and send them a patch?
[05:32] <saispo> anyone use evolution ?
[05:32] <Hobbsee> like, what do you actually send them?
[05:32] <sfllaw> Hobbsee: E-mails to the developer mailing list.
[05:33] <sfllaw> Or an e-mail to the developer, if there's no list.
[05:33] <sfllaw> Be nice and offer a fix for a known problem.
[05:33] <Hobbsee> sfllaw: send them a debdiff, or a diff, or what though?
[05:33] <Hobbsee> sfllaw: right, yep
[05:33] <sfllaw> It depends what kind of developer.
[05:33] <sfllaw> But a diff is pretty normal for upstream stuff.
[05:33] <Hobbsee> sfllaw: oh, and you're welcome w.r.t the wvdial merge, btw.
[05:33] <Hobbsee> right, okay
[05:33] <sfllaw> Thanks muchly for that.
[05:33] <sfllaw> I was so ill.
[05:33] <sfllaw> :(
[05:34] <Hobbsee> sfllaw: :( so i heard.  i was going to do both, but thought it a bit risky
[05:34] <sfllaw> madduck: There appears to be an XviD version.
[05:35] <sfllaw> Or is that too patent-encumbered?
[05:35] <madduck> sfllaw: i just can't play it. w32codecs seems to be needed, and there is no amd64 version.
[05:35] <madduck> sfllaw: i've written to webmaster.
[05:35] <gnomefreak> madduck: iirc you have to run 32bit chroot to use the w32codecs
[05:36] <madduck> sfllaw: i don't claim to have any understanding about this sort of stuff though. just wanted to hear you talk again. :)
[05:36] <sfllaw> madduck: Ah.
[05:36] <madduck> gnomefreak: mh. and configure it to allow X connections... way too much trouble.
[05:36] <sfllaw> I think ffmpeg is supposed to be able to handle MPEG-4.
[05:36] <gnomefreak> madduck: true
[05:37] <madduck> sfllaw: well, we'll see what webmaster says. otherwise you'll have to do the whole thing again over videoconf just for me. :)
[05:37] <bddebian> heh
[05:37] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Nice
[05:38] <Hobbsee> wish i could do that for amarok.  or kdebase.  or something with a lot more bugs.
[05:39] <gnomefreak> the new package freeze is past isnt it?
[05:39] <sfllaw> sivang: How's the HomeUserBackup project coming along?
[05:40] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: err....no?
[05:40] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: that'd be at the same time uni freeze is, i think
[05:40] <gnomefreak> ah
[05:48] <bddebian> Keybuk: aboot?
[05:55] <mjg59> Keybuk: Almost done
[05:55] <mjg59> Just need to sort actually, y'know, drawing pixmaps
[06:11] <Keybuk> bddebian: I'm a little busy this afternoon, sorry
[06:12] <bddebian> Keybuk: No worries.  If you get a free sec, I just wondered about the acroread sync request.
[06:14] <Keybuk> bddebian: it wasn't from Debian, so I ignored it (along with the others)
[06:14] <Keybuk> syncs from unknown archives (to me) require MUCH manual review
[06:14] <bddebian> Keybuk: Fair enough, thanks
[06:14] <Keybuk> one of the other archive admins may know that archive better
[06:16] <mjg59> Keybuk: I win
[06:17] <mjg59> Keybuk: Well, other than text drawing, but still
[06:25] <bddebian> Keybuk: Those are all from Marillat btw, in case you didn't know that
[06:32] <LaserJock> \o/
[06:33] <gnomefreak> that is still going on :(
[06:33] <ogra> pitti, one that will kill the thread and everyone following up ?
[06:34] <HiddenWolf> ogra if he manages that everyone here should owe him a beer or two. ;)
[06:34] <ogra> ugh ... i havent read mails since yesterday afternoon ... the mono thread seems to replace the zeroconf one now ...
[06:35] <pitti> ogra: well, I tried to find a balanced compromise
[06:35] <LaserJock> ogra: yep, -devel just moves on to a different topic  once the last one is squished
[06:35] <pitti> ogra: it's not my intend to kill anyone, and although the discussion was lengthy and redundant, I feel it was necessary
[06:35] <ogra> i thought we had a balanced compromise a week ago already
[06:36] <pitti> ogra: yep, turning that de-facto solution ^ into some retroactive reasoning :)
[06:36] <ogra> well it was very redundant, over and over
[06:36] <hunger> What is that balanced compromise? Oh, I guess I should just read pitti's mail.
[06:36] <ogra> yeah
[06:37] <Yagisan> I can't find anything in that thread. It seems to be self-replicating
[06:38] <bddebian> heh
[06:57] <sfllaw> Kamion: Ping?
[06:59] <LaserJock> sfllaw: no, btw to your blog question
[07:19] <bluefoxicy> wait whoa
[07:19] <bluefoxicy> that thing I just killed was the crash reporter pitti's been working on wasn't it
[07:20] <bluefoxicy> (makes evolution crash horribly
[07:22] <slomo_> bluefoxicy: known bug
[07:22] <slomo_> bluefoxicy: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=346526
[07:24] <bluefoxicy> Cool it worked.
[07:26] <bluefoxicy> slomo_:  I am still amazed I have to tell this machine twice to do something.  Literally.
[07:26] <sabdfl> bluefoxicy: might be worth filing on ubuntu, with upstream gnome task linked to that bugzilla entry
[07:26] <sabdfl> that way you'll be alerted when it's fixed upstream
[07:26] <bluefoxicy> anything that uses gksu will not pop up the authorization dialog the first time; you need to do it a second time to get a dialog.
[07:27] <pitti> doko: releasing ia32-libs-* to dapper-security onw
[07:27] <bluefoxicy> It's like Ubuntu is now a red-hedaded stepchild.
[07:27] <pitti> s/onw/now/
[07:27] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  nice work on the crash reporter, does it retrieve the symbols from the backtrace on the server yet?
[07:27] <pitti> bluefoxicy: no, bt generation is broken ATM, I'm working with BenC to fix that
[07:28] <pitti> bluefoxicy: and it will not retrieve symbols from the server by default
[07:28] <pitti> bluefoxicy: we might add that functionality for the developer's convenience, but not now
[07:28] <pitti> bluefoxicy: right now we don't even have all the symbols yet :)
[07:28] <bluefoxicy> no I mean it sends the crash data to the server; the server can take the addresses and turn them into symbols
[07:28] <bluefoxicy> You saw the suggestion I made for relocating the collected addresses right?
[07:29] <pitti> yep, I saw it
[07:29] <Keybuk> mjg59: heh, shiny
[07:29] <pitti> bluefoxicy: the principle is clear, but it requires some work (and code) to implement it
[07:29] <bluefoxicy> yeah
[07:29] <bluefoxicy> It won't get you a program back in the state of the crasher, but it'll get you proper addresses at least.
[07:29] <doko> pitti: thanks
[07:30] <mjg59> Keybuk: If you could grab the patch and give it a go, that would be great
[07:30] <mjg59> Potentially means we can do >16 colours, too
[07:30] <mjg59> But that's a tiny bit more awkward
[07:30] <Keybuk> mjg59: sweet, can you e-mail it me?
[07:30] <mjg59> Keybuk: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/usplash.diff
[07:31] <mjg59> Keybuk: do make BACKEND=svga
[07:31] <mjg59> Oh man
[07:31] <BenC> who handles the scripts that generate the daily/live/whatever ISO's?
[07:31] <Keybuk> can't test right now (in a bad hardware situation) but will test this evening
[07:31] <doko> mdz: libwpd: kword and abiword-plugins are in main, using libwpd as well; they use it for the same functionality. checked that kword can load a WP document, will check that for abiword-plugins as well.
[07:32] <mjg59> Minor build failure caused by gratuitous and unnecessary maths
[07:33] <mdz> doko: ok; if those are verified, then go ahead
[07:33] <mdz> BenC: Kamion maintains those
[07:34] <mdz> BenC: and ubuntu-cdimage drives them
[07:37] <BenC> Kamion: ping
[07:37] <BenC> mdz: thanks
[07:44] <doko> mdz, Kamion: can we sync from unstable to dapper-proposed?
[07:45] <tseng> doko: they arent good to answer that, I think
[07:45] <tseng> doko: Keybuk does most syncing
[07:46] <doko> Keybuk: ^^^
[07:55] <Kamion> mdz: stuff's progressing but the CDs are rather oversized - I need langpack changes
[07:56] <Kamion> sfllaw: hi
[07:56] <Kamion> BenC: yes?
[07:56] <sfllaw> Kamion: You wanted to talk today?
[07:56] <sfllaw> About revive-tasksel?
[07:57] <Kamion> sfllaw: oh, hmm, right now is approaching dinner-time and not a good time
[07:57] <sfllaw> Fair enough.
[07:57] <sfllaw> Ping me when you want to talk.
[07:57] <sfllaw> Tomorrow is also good.
[07:57] <Kamion> sfllaw: if I'm around later in the evening, I'll get in touch, otherwise I fear it may have to be Wednesday, sorry
[07:57] <Kamion> still off work tomorrow :-)
[07:57] <sfllaw> That's cool.
[07:57] <sfllaw> Ah.  Have fun.
[07:58] <bddebian> Lamer ;-)
[08:03] <BenC> Kamion: I need something changed in yaboot.conf for ppc cd's
[08:03] <BenC> Kamion: the line that goes "device=cd:", remove it completely
[08:04] <BenC> Kamion: thing is, yaboot doesn't need it..it's smart enough to know which device it booted from by asking open firmware (does this by default of no device= line is present)
[08:04] <Yagisan> doko, you here ?
[08:04] <BenC> Kamion: not only that but it breaks systems where the cd devalias points to a device that isn't the boot device, and also breaks things like pSeries where cd isn't defined at all
[08:05] <doko> Yagisan: no
[08:06] <Yagisan> doko, good, because building gcc-4.1 in pbuilder also has a not here moment with
[08:06] <Yagisan> In function `translate_name':../../src/libgnatprj/../gcc/prefix.c:187: undefined reference to `__stack_chk_guard'
[08:06] <doko> Yagisan: get the recent sources
[08:06] <BenC> Kamion: we also may need to reintroduce the powerpc64 lines in yaboot.conf as a fallback for pSeries machines which have no sane "compatible" to match against. The one I have now uses "IBM-9128-710" as the only thing to match against, and that's the model number, which there are dozens of
[08:07] <Yagisan> doko, that was from the edgy sources.
[08:07] <doko> ohh, right, not yet updated.
[08:07] <BenC> Kamion: I might look into adding a "64-bit" detection patch into yaboot, but for now, these changes will help dapper/edgy boot cd's
[08:08] <Kamion> hmm, I thought there were some systems where yaboot didn't manage to figure out that it was booted from CD
[08:08] <Kamion> (brb)
[08:08] <Yagisan> doko, ok. np. I'll wait for a newer one then. Thanks for your time
[08:09] <BenC> Kamion: it's not so much that it needs to know it was booted from CD, just that it needs to be able to figure out the boot device...I'm not aware of any place where that's a problem, but I could be wrong
[08:10] <BenC> I just know that cd: keeps us from being able to boot on pSeries without the user adding an nvalias manually
[08:15] <BenC> Kamion: for what it's worth, machines that have a problem with that, also cannot be net booted, since yaboot depends on this "feature" of detecting the boot device in order to download yaboot.conf from the same net device
[08:15] <Kamion> BenC: mind you, looking at yaboot.c it does seem to bail out if it can't parse boot-device
[08:16] <Kamion> BenC: should I do this for dapper too?
[08:16] <BenC> Kamion: yes, please
[08:17] <BenC> Kamion: basically kill device=, and dupe the macrisc4 stanzas without the [macrisc4]  part using -powerpc64 for the suffixes as a fallback
[08:18] <BenC> folks will have to manually type "live-powerpc64" and what not, but that's better than not booting at all, which is what we get now
[08:18] <Kamion> BenC: done the former, the latter is fiddly because I already have aliases for the -powerpc64 business in [macrisc4]  stanzas
[08:19] <Kamion> BenC: I suppose I can delete those aliases on the grounds that there'll now be real label
[08:19] <Kamion> s
[08:19] <BenC> those aliases don't show up when you hit <tab>
[08:19] <BenC> probably because of the macrisc4 match
[08:19] <BenC> yeah, I think killing the alias should be ok
[08:20] <BenC> I wish IBM had done something like power5 in their compatible list :/
[08:21] <BenC> Kamion: thanks
[08:22] <BenC> it's weird, until I got this machine I had no idea that IBM had a line of POWER5 server's made specifically for Linux
[08:26] <mdz> dholbach: ping
[08:27] <dholbach> mdz: pong
[08:27] <mdz> dholbach: after upgrading tango-icon-theme (I think?) my panel logo has changed
[08:27] <mdz> to blue feet
[08:27] <dholbach> mdz: the next update should fix it
[08:27] <mdz> and my panel launcher icons are suddenly larger
[08:27] <mdz> ok, thanks
[08:27] <dholbach> 0ubuntu2
[08:27] <dholbach> mdz: do you use tango as icon theme?
[08:32] <mdz> dholbach: I didn't think so
[08:32] <mdz> checking
[08:32] <tseng> human and tangerine fall back on tango
[08:32] <mdz> dholbach: yes, apparently I was
[08:32] <ogra> dholbach, i noticed that the panel doesnt forcably scale down icons anymore if they have the wrong size
[08:32] <mdz> changing to Human fixes both issues
[08:34] <dholbach> mdz: but slomo notified me of the tango breakage - it should be fixed :)
[08:34] <dholbach> ogra: hum, what do you mean? how can i reproduce?
[08:34] <ogra> i.e. if an icon exists in a theme in the 48x48 dir only, the panel is resized to 48px
[08:35] <ogra> edubuntu-artwork has the distributor logo in gartoon and tango brown ... the gartoon one was 48x48 only because that was scaled down automatically in dapper and also covered 48px panels then ...
[08:35] <dholbach> ogra: ah i understood, yeah
[08:36] <ogra> in edgy the panel is scaled up 
[08:36] <seb128> ogra: ping vuntz about it maybe ,)
[08:36] <seb128> ;)
[08:36] <ogra> oki
[08:36] <seb128> ogra: feel free to open a bug about it too
[08:36] <ogra> should that be a bug or is it intentional ?
[08:36] <ogra> ah, k, i'll file a gnome bug :)
[08:37] <seb128> not sure, that's why pinging vuntz can be useful ;)
[08:37] <seb128> but that's likely to be a bug
[08:37] <seb128> the panel should respect the settings used
[08:37] <ogra> well, might be some change in the icon theme policy ... who knows (apart from vuntz ;) )
[08:38] <seb128> that's either the panel or GTK
[08:39] <Kamion> BenC: ok, done
[08:44] <yosch> mdz: ping
[08:46] <Petaris> ajmitch: ping
[08:46] <mdz> yosch: yes?
[08:46] <doko> Kamion, infinity: could you approve libwpd for dapper-proposed (still wanting to update ia32-libs-openoffice.org tonight as well)
[08:46] <Petaris> ajmitch: Have you been sucessful in getting ltsp clients to authenticate via Acitve Directory?
[08:47] <yosch> mdz: just wondering about your decision on bug 50802
[08:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50802 in ttf-gentium "Please backport ttf-gentium to dapper-backports from edgy (fixes broken defoma hints)" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50802
[08:47] <mdz> yosch: I have your emails in my inbox; I've sent some inquiries to make but haven't received any response from him
[08:47] <BenC> Kamion: thanks!
[08:47] <wasabi_> Hey... so... Would anybody be interested in fixing bug buddy so that it sends to launchpad, and also includes a core file.
[08:47] <yosch> mdz: yes, he's been very busy recently apparently, no answers to a few mails from me neither
[08:48] <wasabi_> (requiring the generating of a core file, of course)
[08:48] <wasabi_> The bug reports generated by it are useless by default, basically.
[08:48] <mdz> yosch: your update looks to me like a complete repackaging from scratch
[08:49] <mdz> that's not something that we do in a stable release, so preliminarily, I'd say it's not for dapper
[08:49] <yosch> mdz: the actual ttf do not change
[08:50] <yosch> mdz: we've been trying to fix the broken upstream debian package for ages
[08:51] <mdz> yosch: yes, but we only make very conservative changes to the stable release.
[08:51] <yosch> mdz: I described the situation to mako in Paris
[08:52] <yosch> mdz: he said such changes were OK
[08:53] <yosch> mdz: I understand the need to keep Dapper stable but having a package stuck in a bad state for so long...
[08:53] <ivoks> mdz: is there any chance to setup postgrey on fiordland?
[08:53] <yosch> IIRC the plan was to prepare a point release for Dapper?
[08:54] <mdz> yosch: I'm sorry if he gave you the wrong impression, but it isn't his decision and he knows the policy
[08:54] <yosch> mdz: a key thing is the move to co-maintainership via Alioth and the LP font team for this package
[08:54] <mdz> yosch: this is unrelated to the point release; that just rolls up all of the updates we have made since the release
[08:55] <yosch> mdz: I understand
[08:55] <mdz> yosch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases explains a bit
[08:55] <mdz> yosch: also, the diff you sent looks like it is intended for Debian, not Ubuntu
[08:55] <mdz> e.g., it targets "unstable"
[08:57] <Kamion> doko: done
[08:58] <yosch> mdz: yes, I followed the logic of similar font packages packaged similarly for both Debian and Ubuntu
[08:58] <yosch> like http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/t/ttf-indic-fonts/ttf-indic-fonts_0.4.7/changelog
[08:58] <yosch> but I can of course change that if needed
[08:59] <Kamion> yosch: you'll see "unstable" at the top of package changelogs in cases where we synced them verbatim from Debian
[08:59] <Kamion> but not if they were uploaded directly to Ubuntu
[08:59] <bluefoxicy> point release?
[08:59] <yosch> Kamion: OK got it
[08:59] <bluefoxicy> "Ubuntu Dapper 6.06 SP1"
[08:59] <Kamion> 6.06.1, actually
[08:59] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  Mocking Windows is more fun.  :P
[09:00] <bluefoxicy> Although I question, would it defeat the purpose to do a .1 or whatever warranting point release on a stable distribution?
[09:00] <yosch> my goal was to do this via the Alioth project, upload to Debian and then sync to Ubuntu
[09:00] <Kamion> no.
[09:00] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: ^--
[09:01] <bluefoxicy> I'd think that if the changes were invasive enough to warrant actually stepping aside and saying, 'Hey guys, this is different,' then it might fall into the same category re risk as "Just upgrade to the new version of ubuntu"
[09:01] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: no.
[09:01] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: if nothing else we need to fix the installer a bit or else I'm going to be deluged in mail for the next three years. I can just forward it all to you if you like.
[09:02] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  Ah, right.  I forgot the installer is horribly broken for 1/2 - 2/3 of the population.  I guess that'll do it :)
[09:02] <Kamion> I wouldn't go that far
[09:02] <Kamion> but there are plenty of fixes that it's sensible to make without saying "this is a totally different distribution now".
[09:10] <mdz> the installer is a special case because it requires a new CD release
[09:11] <Kamion> it's also useful to roll up the large updates so that folks don't have to download them all on fresh installation
[09:11] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, amen!
[09:11] <tseng> esp on desktop
[09:11] <tseng> gnome and ooo are huge
[09:11] <Kamion> (might not be enough impetus in itself, since point releases are a lot of work)
[09:13] <LaserJock> hmm, point release + rsync would be very nice
[09:13] <mdz> Kamion: exactly
[09:15] <yosch> mdz: what about updating the gentium package for Edgy? what can I try to get that into shape?
[09:15] <mdz> yosch: the best thing would be to get a review from someone who knows fonts well
[09:15] <mdz> yosch: which is why I tried to get in touch with mako
[09:16] <yosch> mdz: OK, so we're both waiting for mako then
[09:17] <mdz> yosch: i've looked over the packaging changes, and the non-font-specific stuff looks fine
[09:17] <yosch> I've pinged mako about this sync bug 53787
[09:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53787 in Ubuntu "Please sync ttf-sil-abyssinica 1.0-1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53787
[09:17] <mdz> yosch: did you make any changes to the defoma hints?
[09:17] <mdz> yosch: it's hard to tell since you renamed the file
[09:18] <yosch> mdz: yes, the defoma hints needed some fixing
[09:18] <yosch> can rename and rediff if you need
[09:19] <mdz> yosch: is that going to cause the font to be preferred over other fonts in the desktop? if so, that needs to be discussed in advance
[09:20] <mdz> if so, I'm not really qualified to judge whether the changes are correct
[09:24] <vuntz> seb128, ogra: nothing changed in the panel wrt icon sizes
[09:24] <ogra> so it must be gtk then ? 
[09:25] <seb128> probably
[09:25] <vuntz> let me add: AFAIK :-)
[09:25] <ogra> heh
[09:26] <yosch> mdz: the plan was to move freesans for Latin down the stack this way
[09:26] <yosch> mdz: will do more analysis of this
[09:26] <vuntz> I thought we forced the size in the panel (by checking the size of the pixbuf we get from gtk)
[09:26] <vuntz> but maybe this check was removed at some time
[09:26] <ogra> it looks suspicious like it 
[09:27] <doko> pitti: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3677680/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-amd64.openoffice.org_2.0.3-4ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[09:28] <yosch> mdz: a team of font experts are reviewing this whole priority issue with fontconfig via freedesktop: http://wiki.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/Fonts/fonts.conf
[09:28] <doko> pkgstriptranslations: processing control file: ./debian/openoffice.org-core-experimental-dbgsym/DEBIAN/control, package openoffice.org-core-experimental-dbgsym, directory ./debian/openoffice.org-core-experimental-dbgsym
[09:28] <doko> pkgstriptranslations: openoffice.org-core-experimental-dbgsym does not contain translations, skipping
[09:28] <doko> pkgstriptranslations: preparing translation tarball openoffice.org_2.0.3-4ubuntu1_amd64_translations.tar.gz...done (74 files)
[09:28] <doko> dpkg-deb: parse error, in file `/build/buildd/openoffice.org-2.0.3/debian/openoffice.org-core-experimental-dbgsym/DEBIAN/control' near line 7 package `openoffice.org-core-experimental-dbgsym':
[09:28] <doko>  `Conflicts' field, reference to `openoffice.org-help-de': error in version: version string is empty
[09:28] <mjg59> mdz: Ok, I've got a perfectly compatible usplash that's able to do high-res stuff
[09:28] <pitti> doko: looking into the log now
[09:28] <mjg59> mdz: i386-only at the moment - do you want me to upload it so we can find out if it breaks anyone?
[09:29] <gnomefreak> doko: you working on OOo?
[09:29] <doko> gnomefreak: no, going to diner now
[09:29] <gnomefreak> its failing to create a file needed to launch (whoever is gonna be working on it)
[09:29] <Kamion> doko: your ia32-libs-kde change removes dapper-security from its sources.list
[09:30] <Kamion> doko: this seems like an error - for instance it reverts kdelibs
[09:30] <doko> Kamion: which version?
[09:30] <Kamion> doko: ia32-libs-kde 7.1
[09:30] <pitti> doko: ugh, thanks; will fix that in pkg-create-dbgsym
[09:30] <Kamion> reverts kdelibs from 3.5.2-0ubuntu18.1 to 3.5.2-0ubuntu18
[09:30] <Kamion> if present, dapper-updates should generally supersede dapper-security
[09:31] <doko> Kamion: in all the ia32-libs* packages, I added these, maybe I missed it in one ...
[09:31] <Kamion> doko: ok, I'm rejecting this one, please check and reupload
[09:31] <mdz> mjg59: you are my hero
[09:31] <mdz> mjg59: go for it; this is edgy after all
[09:31] <Kamion> -deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security main
[09:31] <Kamion> -deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security main
[09:31] <Kamion> +deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-updates main
[09:31] <Kamion> +deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-updates main
[09:32] <mdz> mjg59: will amd64 just lose usplash entirely, or gracefully degrade?
[09:32] <Kamion> ^-- diff from 7.0.1 to 7.1, pretty clear :-)
[09:32] <mjg59> mdz: Behave as it currently does
[09:32] <mdz> perfect
[09:32] <ogra> ppc ?
[09:32] <Kamion> woo, dapper/unapproved empty. /me -> dinner
[09:32] <mdz> need to install some ram, brb
[09:33] <desrt> mjg59; edgy wakes up somewhat faster already
[09:34] <tseng> hello desrt 
[09:34] <desrt> good morning, sir
[09:34] <doko> gnomefreak: fixed in in 2.0.3-4ubuntu1, will take a while, until pkg-create-dbgsym is fixed
[09:34] <gnomefreak> ok ty
[09:35] <mjg59> ogra: Same as it currently is for now
[09:36] <ogra> ah, cool !
[09:44] <Burgwork> jdub, the canaries just got a little louder --> http://www.americanmcgee.com/wordpress/?p=171
[09:44] <tseng> Burgwork: time to evacuate the mine?
[09:45] <Burgwork> tseng, I think we already have
[09:45] <tseng> no, everyone else :)
[09:46] <tseng> automatix is distressing, howeverr
[09:46] <Burgwork> indeed
[09:46] <Burgwork> but it does show the value of the commoncustomizations spec
[09:46] <lemsto> hi ! 
[09:47] <tseng> there is not alot of writing about what automatix is
[09:47] <lemsto> could one of you give flags used to compil ubuntu packges?
[09:47] <tseng> just how to start letting it do horrible things to my system
[09:47] <lemsto> give me*
[09:48] <tseng> -mcpu=pentium4 -mcpu=i486 -O2, basically
[09:48] <doko> gnomefreak: is you real name John Vivirito?
[09:48] <gnomefreak> yes 
[09:48] <tseng> -fstack-protector more recently.
[09:48] <lemsto> noneof those: -funroll-loops -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-exceptions?
[09:48] <Burgwork> tseng, I was referring to what it is trying to do (make stuff easier to install), not the mangling it does while trying to do that
[09:48] <tseng> lemsto: absolutely not.
[09:48] <doko> gnomefreak: thanks for looking over the OOo bug reports
[09:49] <lemsto> tseng ok thank you
[09:49] <tseng> no problem
[09:49] <gnomefreak> doko: no problem i enjoy bugs ;)
[09:49] <Burgwork> I assume those flags would be probably filed under "gentoo crack"?
[09:49] <lemsto> tseng, are those flags "dangerous" for usual apps?
[09:50] <tseng> lemsto: some of them can cause ocassional bugs
[09:50] <zul> Burgwork: oh yes
[09:50] <mjg59> Right, uploaded
[09:51] <LaserJock> Burgwork: hehe, I think my CFLAGS were like 3 lines long once in Gentoo, ... I've since recovered ;-)
[09:51] <tseng> lemsto: but the merits of various flags was pretty well covered at the begining of ubuntu and we havent changed much since
[09:51] <zul> Burgwork: you have to go through a 12 step recovery
[09:51] <doko> Kamion: ia32-libs-kde 7.2
[09:51] <doko> uploaded ...
[09:52] <lemsto> tseng, as firefox is said to be faster when locally build i wanted to try.. but with good flags...
[09:52] <tseng> you are certainly free to experiment
[09:52] <lemsto> tseng, hehe yeah but i first try to know what those flags are for ;)
[09:52] <tseng> rebuilding firefox with a random set of flags isnt very scientific, though
[09:53] <Treenaks> tseng: Use _all_ compiler flags! it must make it faster!
[09:53] <bddebian> heh
[09:53] <lemsto> Treenaks, hehe
[09:53] <Treenaks> tseng: </stereotype>
[09:53] <tseng> I was *trying* to be serious in the face of all this
[09:54] <tseng> oh well :)
[09:54] <Treenaks> tseng: it's your history.. it keeps following you :P
[09:55] <zul> like your fan club
[09:55] <Burgwork> LaserJock, there are just so many things I could say about that... ;)
[09:56] <LaserJock> Burgwork: hehe
[09:57] <Burgwork> "Brandon concluded our interview by saying that he would "like to thank the entire community for making my experience with Gentoo a positive one."" <-- digging up dirt on tseng 
[09:57] <zul>  Burgwork: where is that from?
[09:57] <Burgwork> http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20040119-newsletter.xml?style=printable
[09:58] <kylem> people are allowed to have lapses of judgement.
[09:58] <tseng> Burgwork: hah
[09:58] <tseng> Burgwork: you cant really tell people you think they are all tools
[09:59] <Burgwork> better quote: "Brandon claims he is afflicted with "an odd fascination with things that go way too fast" - which would explain his taste for hard-core metal music, as well as Gentoo."
[09:59] <tseng> yeah i was not happy with that, either.
[09:59] <zul> heh...
[10:00] <tseng> its kind of annoying to do a Q&A interview only to paraphrase the entire thing and add fluff
[10:00] <tseng> Burgwork: is there a date on that?
[10:01] <tseng> Burgwork: maybe 3 years ago?
[10:01] <Burgwork> tseng, it came from the above url
[10:01] <Burgwork> so 2 1/2 years
[10:01] <tseng> ah right.
[10:01] <Burgwork> welcome to the fishbowl
[10:02] <tseng> I found a post of myself on redhat list in 2002 the other day
[10:03] <pitti> doko: pkg-create-dbgsym fix uploaded
[10:12] <lemsto> i have one last question about flags ;)
[10:13] <lemsto> is setting CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS in /etc/environment suficient for apt-get -b source?
[10:13] <mirak> hi
[10:14] <mirak> I asked for support everywhere, I installed last pammount version for tarball, and now I can't login, I can't find what's wrong or how to fix it
[10:18] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  Were you blatantly retarded?
[10:18] <tseng> bluefoxicy: im sorry?
 I found a post of myself on redhat list in 2002 the other day
[10:18] <tseng> oh
[10:18] <tseng> I wasnt brilliant.
[10:18] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I keep finding posts I made several years ago and I'm like "OH JESUS WHY!"
[10:18] <tseng> hahah
[10:18] <HiddenWolf> bluefoxicy, you can't go asking if people are retarded, it isn't polite! ;)
[10:19] <tseng> do most of them have a reply from me reminding you?
[10:19] <bluefoxicy> no
[10:19] <tseng> "hey john, please shut up"
[10:19] <tseng> oh, you went too far back then.
[10:19] <tseng> :P
[10:37] <slomo_> infinity, Keybuk: please give-back pitivi... it builds fine now with gnonlin 0.10.5-1ubuntu1 in the archive
[10:38] <bddebian> Who wrote the merges.ubuntu.com pages?
[10:40] <slomo_> bddebian: Keybuk
[10:42] <bddebian> Who's off today, Keybuk or Kamion
[10:42] <bddebian> ?
[10:45] <jono> hey
[10:45] <Petaris> ajmitch: Have you been sucessful in getting ltsp clients to authenticate via Acitve Directory?
[10:47] <ajmitch> no, since I haven't been working with ltsp at all
[10:48] <Petaris> ajmitch: What about in general with ubuntu?
[10:48] <ajmitch> yes
[10:48] <Petaris> cool
[10:48] <Petaris> Any how to?
[10:48] <Petaris> or notes on how its done?
[10:48] <ajmitch> I haven't written anything up yet, no
[10:48] <Petaris> hrm
[10:49] <gnomefreak> bddebian: i think kamrion is off tomorrow and i havent seen keybuk all day today
[10:49] <Petaris> ajmitch: did you do this strictly with config options or are you writing a software to automate it?
[10:49] <gnomefreak> -r
[10:49] <ajmitch> automating
[10:50] <Petaris> ajmitch: Ok
[10:50] <bddebian> gnomefreak: OK, thx
[10:50] <Petaris> ajmitch: Is there a better time to catch you?
[10:50] <gnomefreak> :)
[10:52] <Petaris> ajmitch: Ahh thats why I keep missing you,
[10:52] <ajmitch> yes, I don't often stay up till 4 or 6 AM
[10:53] <Petaris> ajmitch: something to look at sometime (as its close to what you are doing): http://sadms.sourceforge.net/
[10:54] <Petaris> I need to be able to logon to AD for an ltsp lab, so any help I can render I will.  You can find me in #edubuntu usually.
[10:54] <Petaris> Thanks
[10:54] <ajmitch> another app that would have been nice to see at the start of this project..
[10:54] <Petaris> right
[10:55] <Petaris> these things usually pop-up half way through
[10:55] <ajmitch> of course
[10:55] <ajmitch> no matter how much research is done beforehand
[10:56] <Petaris> you have a name for it?
[10:57] <ajmitch> currently just authtool
[10:57] <ajmitch> since I have no imagination
[10:57] <Petaris> ok, I'll keep my eyes open for it
[10:57] <Petaris> like I said, I need this functionality so if there is anything I can do to help debug it let me know
[10:58] <ajmitch> ok
[10:58] <Petaris> thanks
[11:17] <Burgwork> ajmitch, is your stuff using pam/
[11:17] <Burgwork> ?
[11:18] <ajmitch> there's not really any other sane way to do authentication 
[11:18] <Burgwork> ajmitch, true. How ubuntu specific it is?
[11:19] <ajmitch> it's not
[11:19] <ajmitch> there's no Ubuntu branding anywhere
[11:19] <Burgwork> ajmitch, will it run on FC?
[11:19] <ajmitch> some files will be in different locations on other distros
[11:19] <ajmitch> I can't say
[11:19] <Burgwork> hmm, ok
[11:19] <ajmitch> since I don't have a current FC to test with
[11:20] <ajmitch> I'm doing a bit of config file handling, so it's dependant on what other distros do
[11:20] <LaserJock> Burgwork: want me to "have a talk" with Tim? ;-)
[11:20] <Burgwork> LaserJock, don't I wish. Just after he pays for my ticket to linuxworld sf
[11:23] <Burgwork> ajmitch, you could move to montreal, as canonical hiring
[11:23] <Burgwork> not hard to get a canadian work visa
[11:23] <ajmitch> heh
[11:23] <ajmitch> if they'd take me
[11:24] <Kamion> infinity: shouldn't dapper-updates builds build against dapper+dapper-security+dapper-updates, not just dapper+dapper-updates?
[11:24] <Kamion> infinity: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3681129/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.debian-installer_20051026ubuntu36.3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:25] <LaserJock> Burgwork: don't worry, he's just been hanging out with bddebian too long
[11:25] <ajmitch> LaserJock: the montreal office does different work to what we do in MOTU
[11:26] <Burgwork> the montreal office is all support
[11:26] <Burgwork> ajmitch, you could do qa, ubuntu needs another one of those
[11:26] <ajmitch> & the job description says excellent english & french
[11:26] <ajmitch> my french is anything but excellent :)
[11:27] <LaserJock> newzealeadese counts, right?
[11:27] <Burgwork> they don't speak french in quebec, so you are all good
[11:27] <LaserJock> hehe
[11:29] <Burgwork> ajmitch, what happened to your last job?
[11:29] <ajmitch> was only a short one
[11:40] <mdz> rodarvus: have you received any reports of a system freeze using the ati driver?
[11:40] <TMM> rodarvus: hey! I'm having some trouble with my X server in edgy, I was told to talk to you! :) 
[11:41] <TMM> rodarvus: err. back in a second. need to restart X
[11:42] <TMM> re
[11:44] <TMM> " yes X in edgy is broken atm"
[11:44] <TMM> ah
[11:44] <TMM> sorry :)
[11:45] <TMM> so... anything I can do to help? or are the packages just not done yet?
[11:46] <mdz> that depends on what you're talking about
[11:47] <TMM> well, GLX seems very hosed, also, the entire X experience feels very sluggish now. AIGLX seems to initialize, but there is something wrong. I used the packages from xgl.compiz.info on dapper, and, I removed very trace of them when I updated to edgy, but, things don't look as good :)
[11:48] <TMM> also, the 'applications' menu 'flashes' and is generally unuseable 
[11:48] <gnomefreak> TMM: killall gnome-panel to fix the flashing
[11:49] <TMM> gnomefreak: afraid not :(
[11:49] <mdz> TMM: if you're experimenting with xgl or aiglx; you're on your own.  the current breakage has nothing to do with that.
[11:49] <gnomefreak> TMM: sometimes 2 times is needed or you didnt get rid of compiz and xgl as you thought
[11:49] <mdz> TMM: the flashing is a known, reported bug
[11:50] <TMM> mdz: no, it enables it by default
[11:50] <TMM> gnomefreak: aiglx :)
[11:50] <mdz> no problems here
[11:50] <TMM> mdz: strange... perhaps there's some traces left... but I can't imagine
[11:52] <TMM> no, I reinstalled all the x server stuff... and I removed the aiglx repository before upgrading
[11:53] <TMM> mdz: if you are on edgy, does it mention AIGLX anywhere in your /var/log/Xorg.0.log file?
[11:53] <mdz> yes
[11:53] <TMM> mdz: do you still have direct rendering? or only indirect rendering?
[11:54] <mdz> hmm, I don't
[11:54] <mdz> but of course that only affects 3D
[11:54] <mdz> I don't have any 2D slowdown as you describe
[11:54] <TMM> it is not 'slow' as such, it just 'feels' like it drags a bit
[11:55] <Petaris> later
[11:57] <TMM> well, I guess I'll just wait a bit then, or reinstall dapper again :)
[11:58] <mdz> if there is a genuine problem, neither of those strategies is likely to help get it fixed
[11:59] <TMM> I am just generally not sure what to do about it, the Xorg.0.log looks fine, and it all 'works' as such
[11:59] <TMM> *genuinely 
[12:00] <mdz> the problem with the applications menu is bug #52405
[12:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52405 in gnome-panel "gnome-panel eats 50% cpu for half an hour and flickers" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52405
[12:03] <mjg59> BenC: Does PAGE_MASK ring any bells?
[12:03] <TMM> mdz: well, that worked :) still, the sluggishness... also, how did you find that bug? I WAS already looking for edgy bugs, but there were 0 according to malone ?
[12:04] <mjg59> mdz: Oh, hrm. The build-dependency on libsvga1 is a problem - it's in universe
[12:05] <TMM> mdz: for instance, the new cairo-drawn calendar for evolution, the 'block' that hovers with your mouse cursor when you move over an appointment, that lags and it tears