/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/07/31/#ubuntu-doc.txt

Seveassladen, depjayds at gmail.com is ubuntu_demon -- another forum admin 12:27
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kbrooksHmmm. lets see.01:02
kbrooksthere are old hoary things on the wiki.01:02
Burgundaviakbrooks: hoary is still supported01:07
kbrooksEh?01:08
kbrookswhen will it be unsupported?01:08
Burgundaviakbrooks: when edgy releases01:11
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robotgeekhow goes it?04:30
Burgundavianot bad, you?04:32
robotgeekgood. having a beer, just finished off pizza04:33
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newz2000where do you guys file specs for docteam stuff?05:37
newz2000(on the wiki I mean)05:37
robotgeekhmm, lemme look05:38
robotgeeknewz2000: mostly all over the place :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategorySpec05:39
newz2000robotgeek: Do you like robots?05:40
robotgeeknewz2000: yeah, sure05:40
newz2000My son and I made our first non-autonomous robot this last week...05:41
newz2000The Radio Shack Vex kit was on clearance... I couldn't resist.05:41
robotgeekoh nice. i will soon buy one, i've used only legos before05:41
newz2000Hurry, they're running out.05:41
robotgeeknah, not in a hurry really. 05:42
newz2000We had a soccer playing robot built in about 2.5 hours.05:42
newz2000My son is only 5 years old, so I say "we" but really it was me.05:42
robotgeeksoon, my company will sponsor me to mentor a bunch of kids to build robots :)05:42
newz2000will you use these kits or are you going to do something more DIY, such as PICs/Basic Stamps?05:43
robotgeeki'm looking into building the mintu mp3 player for myself using pics05:44
newz2000do you have a pic programmer yet?05:45
robotgeeksoon, i will have a debugger kit, muhahaha05:45
Burgundavianewz2000: what sort of specs? we are pretty sparing with the specs05:45
newz2000Burgundavia: Specs for usability testing... prompted by discussion on the mailing list from Friday.05:46
newz2000I'm classifying them under ubuntu-website though.05:46
newz2000Robotgeek: Have you found one that works under Linux? I've got two and can't get either to work right.05:46
Burgundavianot really05:46
Burgundaviawe have been pretty quiet recently05:47
newz2000ok. I see that people really aren't using sub-pages much for the specs.05:47
newz2000That makes me sad. I love order and wikis are so flat. :-(05:47
robotgeeknewz2000: nope, i dont think i could use linux at work (as such)05:47
Burgundaviamoin makes subpages and name spaces hard05:48
robotgeekfor this particular thing, alteast. best app for the job05:48
newz2000Burgundavia: Tell me about it.05:48
Burgundaviapeople not using subpages for specs, like putting all specs under Spec/ is the main reason we hived off the help stuff05:49
newz2000yeah, that was a good plan.05:49
newz2000Its my dream one day to see more unification and structure to the Ubuntu website.05:49
newz2000Instead of everyone making a new website for this or that.05:49
Burgundaviawell, you are the webmaster now05:50
newz2000Well, this is not a website run by a webmaster. This is a community website run by the community.05:51
robotgeekoh, are you our webmaster newz2000 ?05:51
newz2000Si05:51
newz2000But I like robots too. :D05:51
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robotgeeknewz2000: heh, i filed a bug about safari not rendering our website correctly :)05:52
Burgundavianewz2000: the one thing I would love to work on is a new ubuntu.com05:53
Burgundaviathe main page, that is05:53
newz2000Burgundavia, sign up for the website team: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-website05:53
newz2000robotgeek: where did you file that bug?05:54
robotgeekon launchpad, moment05:54
Burgundavianewz2000: I already have edit rights, but I am not about to start changing the main page willynilly05:54
newz2000You have edit rights on the main website?05:54
newz2000Oh, you're corey05:54
Burgundaviaabsolutely, check recentchanges05:54
newz2000Nice to meet you.05:55
Burgundavianice to meet you as wel05:55
Burgundaviamy timezone is the same as mdz's, so our schedules don't overlap much05:55
newz2000Where are you?05:55
BurgundaviaVictoria BC Canada05:55
newz2000I'm in Des Moines Iowa USA.05:55
newz2000US/Central time zone05:56
BurgundaviaI thought you were in the UK, for some reason05:56
Burgundaviawell that makes it much easier05:56
robotgeekhttps://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bug/51312 newz2000 05:56
UbugtuMalone bug 51312 in ubuntu-website "Website renders incorrectly using safari" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  05:56
newz2000oh, that bug05:56
newz2000yeah, the system doesn't handle lower screen res that well.05:56
newz2000We'll fix that on the next rev, later this summer05:57
robotgeekno, its not 800 x 600, its the next one05:57
robotgeek1024x768 thats it05:58
newz2000what am I looking for... the overlapping of the nav bar?05:58
robotgeekpretty much05:59
newz2000Burgundavia: Yeah, it's lonely being in this hemisphere05:59
robotgeeknewz2000: i'm in alabama :)05:59
newz2000robotgeek: The browser window is set to only 800 px wide. 05:59
Burgundaviaeven mdz spends several weeks a year in london05:59
newz2000I'm heading there in a couple weeks05:59
robotgeeki'll check it out again, newz2000 06:00
robotgeeknewz2000: alabama? where in?06:00
Burgundaviahmm, googling a person is quite interesting06:00
newz2000robotgeek: no, London.06:00
robotgeekhmm, okay. /me is disapponited, lol06:00
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newz2000sorry. :)06:01
Burgundaviaevening mine bruder06:01
Madpilotgreetings06:01
robotgeekhowdy Madpilot 06:01
Burgundaviadid you get up today?06:01
MadpilotBurgundavia, flying? No, hung out here this afternoon then went to work06:02
Burgundaviapity, as the weather is gorgeous06:02
Madpilotthere were some wicked CB cells moving through - nasty little squalls dumping lots of rain06:02
Burgundavianewz2000: for the confused, Madpilot is my older brother06:02
newz2000Ah. Cool. Also in BC?06:03
Madpilotwe're both in Victoria06:03
MadpilotBurgundavia, for flying, the wx today has been mixed - lots of FEW035CB in the reports - which means "wannabe-thunderstorms at 3,500ft" - not nice06:06
Burgundaviahmm, fun06:06
newz2000robotgeek: I aspire to do more professional (paid) writing. My one by-line was for a book review in Servo magazine.06:07
newz2000123 PIC Microcontroller experiments for the evil genius06:07
newz2000I highly recomend it if you want a book on PICs.06:07
newz2000The programmer in that book (PicKit 1) is actually supported under linux, but doesn't seem to work in dapper.06:10
robotgeeknewz2000: mostly have done fine with the manuals06:10
Burgundavianewz2000: what are the details of this summers revamp of the website?06:11
newz2000Burgundavia: Still under discussion. I'm suggesting to people with input to file bugs.06:12
robotgeekmost of my work in the future will be writing drivers for boards etc which use pics06:12
newz2000I say "summer" but my guess is that it won't start until the last week of August.06:12
newz2000robotgeek: Are you doing anything with USB yet?06:13
Burgundaviaare we closer to getting a ubuntu-website mailing list?06:13
robotgeeknewz2000: nope, we do all our stuff using ethernet06:14
robotgeeki should be working on it in the future though (for mp3 player)06:15
newz2000Burgundavia: I think we have one... I approved it on Friday, however I didn't know how to complete some of the admin details. So maybe its not active until I do that.06:15
newz2000I didn't get to that item on my todo list until most of the people were gone for the day, so tomorrow morn I should get the advise I need to finish the admin stuff.06:16
Burgundaviasounds good06:16
newz2000I honestly dont know how we got by without a webmaster before. I don't understand how Henrik got anything else done. There is so much to do.06:17
Burgundaviayou can push stuff off to me, if you want06:17
newz2000Have you ever played with aspseek before?06:18
robotgeekhmm, thanks to google video's download for ipod option06:18
Burgundavianope06:18
robotgeekonly way for me to watch google videos06:19
newz2000That's my pet project I'm trying to find time for... right now I'm so frustrated by search.06:19
newz2000If you go to www.ubuntu.com and type in the search box you get no results...06:19
newz2000most of the info is on either wiki.u.c or help.u.c.06:19
newz2000I'd like to find some way to make searching work across sites.06:19
newz2000However it should be controllable... for example, when searching for help we want to limit the search to the helpsite.06:20
newz2000I've done this before using ht://dig, but it looks like that product is abandoned.06:20
newz2000Aspseek seems to be a good alternative... modern, robust, active.06:20
newz2000Plus it's FOSS, which I think is important.06:21
BurgundaviaMadpilot: you have ops on -offtopic, no06:21
Burgundavia?06:21
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Burgundaviasalut jsgotangco06:27
jsgotangcohey Burgundavia06:27
robotgeekone by one, the doc team files in :)06:28
jsgotangcoheh i will just grab some lunch06:28
MadpilotBurgundavia, I do, yeah - why?06:35
BurgundaviaMadpilot: never mind,06:35
Burgundaviaok, I officially hate my desktop keyboard06:40
Burgundaviait is too stiff06:41
newz2000bedtime.06:49
newz2000robotgeek: http://www.create.ucsb.edu/~dano/CUI/ looks promising06:49
newz2000thanks for the info all06:49
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Burgundavianight all08:25
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mdke_sladen: no, afraid not - signing up to the forums is a good idea09:11
mdke_morning09:14
jsgotangcohi09:15
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manickamdke, any news on the udsf/forums porting project?12:09
mdkemanicka: no, we should draw up some ideas and start documenting 12:09
mdkethe proces12:09
mdkes12:09
mdkegah12:09
manickahmm, ok12:10
manickahere's a few thoughts12:10
manickathe pages on the udsf are tricky to port to moin moin because of the templates that have been used system wide12:11
manickaI've found it easier to take the pages straight from the forums instead12:11
manickabut the udsf is a good resource for which docs to target12:11
mdkeright12:12
manickakb also claims to have about 5 people interested in working on the project12:12
manickaback to porting, I've been experimenting with copying and pasting from the forums into the moin moin 1.5 personal gui and the tweaking the resulting code12:14
manickaworks quite well12:14
mdkegood. One more thing that needs to be quite clearly explained is to focus on avoiding duplicating material that already exists on the help wiki12:15
manickaI've also asked Ryan to clarify some licensing questions here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=22545312:15
manickano answer as yet12:16
manickaduplication could be avoided by a simple search12:16
mdkewe need to clarify them from our side too12:16
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manickaok12:16
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manickahi12:17
mdkehi there romana 12:17
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mdkemanicka: I've answered your query on licensing12:25
manickaI just noticed12:32
manickai wonder of that is still the case if the original author publishes there knowing that the material will be under that license12:33
manickathe last clause seems to void all those issues with permission12:34
mdkemanicka: sorry, can you explain a bit more?12:35
manickawell12:35
manicka* Any of these conditions can be waived if you get permission from the copyright holder.12:35
mdkeright, you get permission to waive conditions from the copyright holder12:36
manickawho is the copyright holder I guess is the question12:36
mdkethe person who writes the material12:36
mdkeall clear?12:36
manickaI think they would argue that they have the copyright, not the author12:37
mdkesorry, I don't understand at all. The Author *is* the person who writes the material12:38
manickabrb, phone12:40
manickaso mdke, the problem seems to come back to the original identified issues. It make the original porting of docs from the forums to the udsf a breach of copyright and subsequently difficult to port to the wiki01:13
manickaif obtaining permission of the author is the issue, you don't really need the udsf's involvement to do that01:13
manickawhat is really needed is a team of forum members who would approach other members to get their permission or to assist them to post in on the wiki themselves01:15
mdkemanicka: no, hang on.01:15
mdkeporting of docs to udsf isn't a breach of copyright if the license is maintained (which it is) and if there is attribution (is this done?)01:15
mdkeit's porting of docs to the help wiki that is a problem, and for which you need permission01:16
manickayes attribution is done I guess, but permission is not sort01:18
manickaand  the license is the same01:19
mdkeright, so you don't need permission then01:19
manickaok, i see the dilemma01:19
mdkeyou only need permission to *change* any of the conditions01:19
manickafrom the author01:20
manickahmmm01:20
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manickaso mdke. what is the answer to making this work?01:34
mdkemanicka: I said in my post, you should ask the permission of the author to put the material into the public domain  before adding it to help.ubuntu.com01:35
mdkeonce we've resolved the licensing question, then we will revise that statement01:35
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manickamips has asked some valid questions in the thread. There is nothing in the sign up about agreeing to creative commons01:45
mdkethere is, I believe01:46
jjessemorning01:47
mdkehowever, it should be much clearer, like on the bottom of every page. I opened a thread about that once, but it doesn't seem to have been implemented01:47
mdkemorning jjesse 01:47
jjessemonring mdke (or probablly afternoon for you )01:48
mdkejust about01:48
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mdkedo you guys have trunk/Rakefile? wtf is that?03:50
dsasit's a Makefile wrote in Ruby03:50
mdkewhy is it there?03:51
mdkeand who made it?03:51
mdketrappist!03:51
trappistmdke!03:52
mdketrappist: what's that all about?03:52
mdkewe need a policy of posting to the mailing list about new and funky things03:53
trappistI was hoping to condense some utilities into one place03:53
mdkeahuh03:54
mdketrappist: in particular?03:55
trappistbuilding and validating, in particular03:55
mdkeright03:55
mdkebut doesn't building also already incorporate validating?03:56
mdkexsltproc spits out invalid xml03:56
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trappistdunno, but a lot of validation happens apart from building, and I thought it'd be nice to consolidate them into one file, cut down on clutter03:56
mdkeanyway, i was curious about what it was, nice to know. Maybe you can post about your ideas to the ML?03:57
trappistbut of course I didn't delete validate.sh :)03:57
trappistcan do.  probably shoulda done that in the first place03:57
mdkethanks03:58
jsgotangcoheh03:59
mdkerobotgeek: around?04:00
mdkehands up if you have contributed to the add-applications section of the desktop guide?04:09
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jsgotangconixternal: are you there?04:43
jjessei think hes on vacation this week?  he sent out an email last week if i recall correctly04:43
jsgotangcooh yeah04:43
jsgotangcobut he's not away on irc04:44
jsgotangcoheh04:44
jjessewow he's on a lot of channels04:44
jsgotangcocrack addict04:45
jsgotangco"Inspired by Jonatha's cry for action"04:51
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nixternalhello!!!04:57
nixternaljsgotangco: im here for a quick second...im enjoying the hot hot weather on vacation ;)04:59
jsgotangcolol04:59
jjessedidn't realize i had made a call to action :)05:12
mdkejjesse: sure, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-July/006860.html05:18
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jjessedid the build for the releasenotes for kubuntu get removed from the makefile?06:10
jjesseah it was changed from make krn to make release-notes06:12
LaserJockmdke: why will links be broken with the new articles?06:44
jjessebecause they moved directories?06:44
mdkeLaserJock: because there were a lot of cross references, which were to things which are now not in the same document06:44
LaserJockbut don't the articles just point to the existing docs?06:44
LaserJockoh wait, sorry06:45
LaserJockI was just thinking of the packaging guide06:45
LaserJockwhich probably won't get all split up06:45
LaserJocksorry, brain fart06:45
mdkeso <xref linkend="add-applications"> in the desktopguide is now broken, because there isn't a section in the desktopguide called "add-applications", it has its own article06:45
mdkeI'm actually a bit stumped on how to fix those... I'll need to hash something out with upstream06:46
jjessei'm looking for someone to apply the diff i sent to the release notes and also someone to review them please ;)08:20
LaserJockjjesse: you can't apply it yourself?08:20
jjesseLaserJock: forgot to copy my key and the email w/ the password over when i redid this virtual machine08:21
jjessei have to find it on my computer at home08:21
LaserJockjjesse: ah08:21
LaserJockjjesse: dang, that's a decent sized patch08:22
jjesseits basically a total rewrite for bug #4852508:23
UbugtuMalone bug 48525 in kubuntu-docs "Problems with Dapper Release Notes for Kubuntu" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4852508:23
LaserJockjjesse: well, it validates. I'll commit it.08:25
jjesseLaserJock: thanks08:25
jjessedoes doc.ubuntu.com still get updated nightly?08:25
LaserJocksomething like that08:25
LaserJockI'm not sure what it is exactly08:25
LaserJockbut I made changes to the packaging guide and they showed up fairly quickly08:26
LaserJockso it is being generated08:26
jjessecool, its my oldest bug :)08:26
LaserJockalthough i don't think the status reports are getting generated08:26
jjesseLaserJock: thanks for uploading that one :)08:42
jjessei know it was pretty big08:42
LaserJocknp08:42
jjessewow its 97 degrees F out and feels like 10708:57
LaserJockyeah, we just got the cool-down in the last few days08:58
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locutus_Does anyone have a list of all the instillation options for Ubuntu?10:40
LaserJockhow do you mean?10:45
locutus_I have a problem that I've seen on some of the forums...10:48
locutus_When I load Ubuntu, it starts out just fine...10:49
locutus_But then it freezes up at "Mounting root file systems"10:49
LaserJockk10:49
locutus_I'm wondering if anyone has a list explaining the boot or install options.10:49
locutus_All of them.10:49
LaserJockfor the text installer?10:50
locutus_I think so.10:50
locutus_It's the install options when you put in the CD right at startup.10:50
LaserJockhmmm, I don't know of a list. You might ask the ubuntu-users mailing list or #ubuntu10:51
locutus_Okay.  TX.10:52
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manickahmm, he should use the alternate cd10:52
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LaserJockmanicka: I think that is what he was using10:59
manickathat issue tends to occur with he desktop CD... anyway11:00
LaserJockhmm11:01
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LaserJockhi theCore 11:17
theCorehello LaserJock!11:35
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