[12:27] sladen, depjayds at gmail.com is ubuntu_demon -- another forum admin === mpt [n=mpt@203.118.156.188] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sladen should save these === mdke_ [n=matt@unaffiliated/matt/x-000000001] has joined #ubuntu-doc === kbrooks [n=kbrooks@unaffiliated/kbrooks] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:02] Hmmm. lets see. [01:02] there are old hoary things on the wiki. [01:07] kbrooks: hoary is still supported [01:08] Eh? [01:08] when will it be unsupported? [01:11] kbrooks: when edgy releases === bimberi [n=bimberi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.bimberi] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt_ [n=mpt@203.118.156.188] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:30] how goes it? [04:32] not bad, you? [04:33] good. having a beer, just finished off pizza === mpt__ [n=mpt@203.118.156.188] has joined #ubuntu-doc === newz2000 [n=matt@12-216-147-124.client.mchsi.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:37] where do you guys file specs for docteam stuff? [05:37] (on the wiki I mean) [05:38] hmm, lemme look [05:39] newz2000: mostly all over the place :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategorySpec [05:40] robotgeek: Do you like robots? [05:40] newz2000: yeah, sure [05:41] My son and I made our first non-autonomous robot this last week... [05:41] The Radio Shack Vex kit was on clearance... I couldn't resist. [05:41] oh nice. i will soon buy one, i've used only legos before [05:41] Hurry, they're running out. [05:42] nah, not in a hurry really. [05:42] We had a soccer playing robot built in about 2.5 hours. [05:42] My son is only 5 years old, so I say "we" but really it was me. [05:42] soon, my company will sponsor me to mentor a bunch of kids to build robots :) [05:43] will you use these kits or are you going to do something more DIY, such as PICs/Basic Stamps? [05:44] i'm looking into building the mintu mp3 player for myself using pics [05:45] do you have a pic programmer yet? [05:45] soon, i will have a debugger kit, muhahaha [05:45] newz2000: what sort of specs? we are pretty sparing with the specs [05:46] Burgundavia: Specs for usability testing... prompted by discussion on the mailing list from Friday. [05:46] I'm classifying them under ubuntu-website though. [05:46] Robotgeek: Have you found one that works under Linux? I've got two and can't get either to work right. [05:46] not really [05:47] we have been pretty quiet recently [05:47] ok. I see that people really aren't using sub-pages much for the specs. [05:47] That makes me sad. I love order and wikis are so flat. :-( [05:47] newz2000: nope, i dont think i could use linux at work (as such) [05:48] moin makes subpages and name spaces hard [05:48] for this particular thing, alteast. best app for the job [05:48] Burgundavia: Tell me about it. [05:49] people not using subpages for specs, like putting all specs under Spec/ is the main reason we hived off the help stuff [05:49] yeah, that was a good plan. [05:49] Its my dream one day to see more unification and structure to the Ubuntu website. [05:49] Instead of everyone making a new website for this or that. [05:50] well, you are the webmaster now [05:51] Well, this is not a website run by a webmaster. This is a community website run by the community. [05:51] oh, are you our webmaster newz2000 ? [05:51] Si [05:51] But I like robots too. :D === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:52] newz2000: heh, i filed a bug about safari not rendering our website correctly :) [05:53] newz2000: the one thing I would love to work on is a new ubuntu.com [05:53] the main page, that is [05:53] Burgundavia, sign up for the website team: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-website [05:54] robotgeek: where did you file that bug? [05:54] on launchpad, moment [05:54] newz2000: I already have edit rights, but I am not about to start changing the main page willynilly [05:54] You have edit rights on the main website? [05:54] Oh, you're corey [05:54] absolutely, check recentchanges [05:55] Nice to meet you. [05:55] nice to meet you as wel [05:55] my timezone is the same as mdz's, so our schedules don't overlap much [05:55] Where are you? [05:55] Victoria BC Canada [05:55] I'm in Des Moines Iowa USA. [05:56] US/Central time zone [05:56] I thought you were in the UK, for some reason [05:56] well that makes it much easier [05:56] https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bug/51312 newz2000 [05:56] Malone bug 51312 in ubuntu-website "Website renders incorrectly using safari" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] [05:56] oh, that bug [05:56] yeah, the system doesn't handle lower screen res that well. [05:57] We'll fix that on the next rev, later this summer [05:57] no, its not 800 x 600, its the next one [05:58] 1024x768 thats it [05:58] what am I looking for... the overlapping of the nav bar? [05:59] pretty much [05:59] Burgundavia: Yeah, it's lonely being in this hemisphere [05:59] newz2000: i'm in alabama :) [05:59] robotgeek: The browser window is set to only 800 px wide. [05:59] even mdz spends several weeks a year in london [05:59] I'm heading there in a couple weeks [06:00] i'll check it out again, newz2000 [06:00] newz2000: alabama? where in? [06:00] hmm, googling a person is quite interesting [06:00] robotgeek: no, London. [06:00] hmm, okay. /me is disapponited, lol === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:01] sorry. :) [06:01] evening mine bruder [06:01] greetings [06:01] howdy Madpilot [06:01] did you get up today? [06:02] Burgundavia, flying? No, hung out here this afternoon then went to work [06:02] pity, as the weather is gorgeous [06:02] there were some wicked CB cells moving through - nasty little squalls dumping lots of rain [06:02] newz2000: for the confused, Madpilot is my older brother [06:03] Ah. Cool. Also in BC? [06:03] we're both in Victoria [06:06] Burgundavia, for flying, the wx today has been mixed - lots of FEW035CB in the reports - which means "wannabe-thunderstorms at 3,500ft" - not nice [06:06] hmm, fun [06:07] robotgeek: I aspire to do more professional (paid) writing. My one by-line was for a book review in Servo magazine. [06:07] 123 PIC Microcontroller experiments for the evil genius [06:07] I highly recomend it if you want a book on PICs. [06:10] The programmer in that book (PicKit 1) is actually supported under linux, but doesn't seem to work in dapper. [06:10] newz2000: mostly have done fine with the manuals [06:11] newz2000: what are the details of this summers revamp of the website? [06:12] Burgundavia: Still under discussion. I'm suggesting to people with input to file bugs. [06:12] most of my work in the future will be writing drivers for boards etc which use pics [06:12] I say "summer" but my guess is that it won't start until the last week of August. [06:13] robotgeek: Are you doing anything with USB yet? [06:13] are we closer to getting a ubuntu-website mailing list? [06:14] newz2000: nope, we do all our stuff using ethernet [06:15] i should be working on it in the future though (for mp3 player) [06:15] Burgundavia: I think we have one... I approved it on Friday, however I didn't know how to complete some of the admin details. So maybe its not active until I do that. [06:16] I didn't get to that item on my todo list until most of the people were gone for the day, so tomorrow morn I should get the advise I need to finish the admin stuff. [06:16] sounds good [06:17] I honestly dont know how we got by without a webmaster before. I don't understand how Henrik got anything else done. There is so much to do. [06:17] you can push stuff off to me, if you want [06:18] Have you ever played with aspseek before? [06:18] hmm, thanks to google video's download for ipod option [06:18] nope [06:19] only way for me to watch google videos [06:19] That's my pet project I'm trying to find time for... right now I'm so frustrated by search. [06:19] If you go to www.ubuntu.com and type in the search box you get no results... [06:19] most of the info is on either wiki.u.c or help.u.c. [06:19] I'd like to find some way to make searching work across sites. [06:20] However it should be controllable... for example, when searching for help we want to limit the search to the helpsite. [06:20] I've done this before using ht://dig, but it looks like that product is abandoned. [06:20] Aspseek seems to be a good alternative... modern, robust, active. [06:21] Plus it's FOSS, which I think is important. [06:21] Madpilot: you have ops on -offtopic, no [06:21] ? === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@dialup-4.159.11.33.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:27] salut jsgotangco [06:27] hey Burgundavia [06:28] one by one, the doc team files in :) [06:28] heh i will just grab some lunch [06:35] Burgundavia, I do, yeah - why? [06:35] Madpilot: never mind, [06:40] ok, I officially hate my desktop keyboard [06:41] it is too stiff [06:49] bedtime. [06:49] robotgeek: http://www.create.ucsb.edu/~dano/CUI/ looks promising [06:49] thanks for the info all === bimberi_ [n=bimberi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.bimberi] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=alex@modemcable044.137-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:25] night all === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c58-107-168-5.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:11] sladen: no, afraid not - signing up to the forums is a good idea [09:14] morning [09:15] hi === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=alex@modemcable044.137-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c58-107-168-5.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bimberi [n=bimberi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.bimberi] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt_ [n=mpt@203.118.156.188] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@203.118.156.188] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:09] mdke, any news on the udsf/forums porting project? [12:09] manicka: no, we should draw up some ideas and start documenting [12:09] the proces [12:09] s [12:09] gah [12:10] hmm, ok [12:10] here's a few thoughts [12:11] the pages on the udsf are tricky to port to moin moin because of the templates that have been used system wide [12:11] I've found it easier to take the pages straight from the forums instead [12:11] but the udsf is a good resource for which docs to target [12:12] right [12:12] kb also claims to have about 5 people interested in working on the project [12:14] back to porting, I've been experimenting with copying and pasting from the forums into the moin moin 1.5 personal gui and the tweaking the resulting code [12:14] works quite well [12:15] good. One more thing that needs to be quite clearly explained is to focus on avoiding duplicating material that already exists on the help wiki [12:15] I've also asked Ryan to clarify some licensing questions here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=225453 [12:16] no answer as yet [12:16] duplication could be avoided by a simple search [12:16] we need to clarify them from our side too === romana [n=romana@ppp153-251.lns3.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:16] ok === romana waves quiet hello [12:17] hi [12:17] hi there romana === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:25] manicka: I've answered your query on licensing [12:32] I just noticed [12:33] i wonder of that is still the case if the original author publishes there knowing that the material will be under that license [12:34] the last clause seems to void all those issues with permission [12:35] manicka: sorry, can you explain a bit more? [12:35] well [12:35] * Any of these conditions can be waived if you get permission from the copyright holder. [12:36] right, you get permission to waive conditions from the copyright holder [12:36] who is the copyright holder I guess is the question [12:36] the person who writes the material [12:36] all clear? [12:37] I think they would argue that they have the copyright, not the author [12:38] sorry, I don't understand at all. The Author *is* the person who writes the material [12:40] brb, phone [01:13] so mdke, the problem seems to come back to the original identified issues. It make the original porting of docs from the forums to the udsf a breach of copyright and subsequently difficult to port to the wiki [01:13] if obtaining permission of the author is the issue, you don't really need the udsf's involvement to do that [01:15] what is really needed is a team of forum members who would approach other members to get their permission or to assist them to post in on the wiki themselves [01:15] manicka: no, hang on. [01:15] porting of docs to udsf isn't a breach of copyright if the license is maintained (which it is) and if there is attribution (is this done?) [01:16] it's porting of docs to the help wiki that is a problem, and for which you need permission [01:18] yes attribution is done I guess, but permission is not sort [01:19] and the license is the same [01:19] right, so you don't need permission then [01:19] ok, i see the dilemma [01:19] you only need permission to *change* any of the conditions [01:20] from the author [01:20] hmmm === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:34] so mdke. what is the answer to making this work? [01:35] manicka: I said in my post, you should ask the permission of the author to put the material into the public domain before adding it to help.ubuntu.com [01:35] once we've resolved the licensing question, then we will revise that statement === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:45] mips has asked some valid questions in the thread. There is nothing in the sign up about agreeing to creative commons [01:46] there is, I believe [01:47] morning [01:47] however, it should be much clearer, like on the bottom of every page. I opened a thread about that once, but it doesn't seem to have been implemented [01:47] morning jjesse [01:48] monring mdke (or probablly afternoon for you ) [01:48] just about === bimberi [n=bimberi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.bimberi] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac] has joined #ubuntu-doc === skora [n=skora@70-39-193-120.clvdoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === newz2000 [n=matt@12-216-147-124.client.mchsi.com] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Talk] === dsas [n=dean@host86-128-51-145.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:50] do you guys have trunk/Rakefile? wtf is that? [03:50] it's a Makefile wrote in Ruby [03:51] why is it there? [03:51] and who made it? [03:51] trappist! [03:52] mdke! [03:52] trappist: what's that all about? [03:53] we need a policy of posting to the mailing list about new and funky things [03:53] I was hoping to condense some utilities into one place [03:54] ahuh [03:55] trappist: in particular? [03:55] building and validating, in particular [03:55] right [03:56] but doesn't building also already incorporate validating? [03:56] xsltproc spits out invalid xml === Kamping_Kaiser [n=kgoetz@easyubuntu/docteam/KampingKaiser/x-3453498] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:56] dunno, but a lot of validation happens apart from building, and I thought it'd be nice to consolidate them into one file, cut down on clutter [03:57] anyway, i was curious about what it was, nice to know. Maybe you can post about your ideas to the ML? [03:57] but of course I didn't delete validate.sh :) [03:57] can do. probably shoulda done that in the first place [03:58] thanks [03:59] heh [04:00] robotgeek: around? [04:09] hands up if you have contributed to the add-applications section of the desktop guide? === glatzor [n=sebi@ppp-82-135-12-42.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc === flor1 [n=root@N775P018.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-doc === flor1 [n=root@N775P018.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [04:43] nixternal: are you there? [04:43] i think hes on vacation this week? he sent out an email last week if i recall correctly [04:43] oh yeah [04:44] but he's not away on irc [04:44] heh [04:44] wow he's on a lot of channels [04:45] crack addict [04:51] "Inspired by Jonatha's cry for action" === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:57] hello!!! [04:59] jsgotangco: im here for a quick second...im enjoying the hot hot weather on vacation ;) [04:59] lol [05:12] didn't realize i had made a call to action :) [05:18] jjesse: sure, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-July/006860.html === glatzor [n=sebi@ppp-82-135-12-42.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:10] did the build for the releasenotes for kubuntu get removed from the makefile? [06:12] ah it was changed from make krn to make release-notes [06:44] mdke: why will links be broken with the new articles? [06:44] because they moved directories? [06:44] LaserJock: because there were a lot of cross references, which were to things which are now not in the same document [06:44] but don't the articles just point to the existing docs? [06:45] oh wait, sorry [06:45] I was just thinking of the packaging guide [06:45] which probably won't get all split up [06:45] sorry, brain fart [06:45] so in the desktopguide is now broken, because there isn't a section in the desktopguide called "add-applications", it has its own article [06:46] I'm actually a bit stumped on how to fix those... I'll need to hash something out with upstream [08:20] i'm looking for someone to apply the diff i sent to the release notes and also someone to review them please ;) [08:20] jjesse: you can't apply it yourself? [08:21] LaserJock: forgot to copy my key and the email w/ the password over when i redid this virtual machine [08:21] i have to find it on my computer at home [08:21] jjesse: ah [08:22] jjesse: dang, that's a decent sized patch [08:23] its basically a total rewrite for bug #48525 [08:23] Malone bug 48525 in kubuntu-docs "Problems with Dapper Release Notes for Kubuntu" [Medium,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/48525 [08:25] jjesse: well, it validates. I'll commit it. [08:25] LaserJock: thanks [08:25] does doc.ubuntu.com still get updated nightly? [08:25] something like that [08:25] I'm not sure what it is exactly [08:26] but I made changes to the packaging guide and they showed up fairly quickly [08:26] so it is being generated [08:26] cool, its my oldest bug :) [08:26] although i don't think the status reports are getting generated [08:42] LaserJock: thanks for uploading that one :) [08:42] i know it was pretty big [08:42] np [08:57] wow its 97 degrees F out and feels like 107 [08:58] yeah, we just got the cool-down in the last few days === dsas [n=dean@host86-128-51-145.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === joachim-n [n=joachim@ACD62348.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === locutus_ [n=jhewitt@fw.osdl.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:40] Does anyone have a list of all the instillation options for Ubuntu? [10:45] how do you mean? [10:48] I have a problem that I've seen on some of the forums... [10:49] When I load Ubuntu, it starts out just fine... [10:49] But then it freezes up at "Mounting root file systems" [10:49] k [10:49] I'm wondering if anyone has a list explaining the boot or install options. [10:49] All of them. [10:50] for the text installer? [10:50] I think so. [10:50] It's the install options when you put in the CD right at startup. [10:51] hmmm, I don't know of a list. You might ask the ubuntu-users mailing list or #ubuntu [10:52] Okay. TX. === locutus_ [n=jhewitt@fw.osdl.org] has left #ubuntu-doc ["I'm] [10:52] hmm, he should use the alternate cd === locutus_ [n=jhewitt@fw.osdl.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc === locutus_ [n=jhewitt@fw.osdl.org] has left #ubuntu-doc ["I'm] [10:59] manicka: I think that is what he was using [11:00] that issue tends to occur with he desktop CD... anyway [11:01] hmm === theCore [n=alex@modemcable035.216-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:17] hi theCore [11:35] hello LaserJock! === Ubugtu [n=bugbot@ubuntu/bot/ubugtu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore_ [n=alex@modemcable035.216-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=alex@modemcable035.216-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc