[12:27] <Seveas> sladen, depjayds at gmail.com is ubuntu_demon -- another forum admin 
[01:02] <kbrooks> Hmmm. lets see.
[01:02] <kbrooks> there are old hoary things on the wiki.
[01:07] <Burgundavia> kbrooks: hoary is still supported
[01:08] <kbrooks> Eh?
[01:08] <kbrooks> when will it be unsupported?
[01:11] <Burgundavia> kbrooks: when edgy releases
[04:30] <robotgeek> how goes it?
[04:32] <Burgundavia> not bad, you?
[04:33] <robotgeek> good. having a beer, just finished off pizza
[05:37] <newz2000> where do you guys file specs for docteam stuff?
[05:37] <newz2000> (on the wiki I mean)
[05:38] <robotgeek> hmm, lemme look
[05:39] <robotgeek> newz2000: mostly all over the place :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategorySpec
[05:40] <newz2000> robotgeek: Do you like robots?
[05:40] <robotgeek> newz2000: yeah, sure
[05:41] <newz2000> My son and I made our first non-autonomous robot this last week...
[05:41] <newz2000> The Radio Shack Vex kit was on clearance... I couldn't resist.
[05:41] <robotgeek> oh nice. i will soon buy one, i've used only legos before
[05:41] <newz2000> Hurry, they're running out.
[05:42] <robotgeek> nah, not in a hurry really. 
[05:42] <newz2000> We had a soccer playing robot built in about 2.5 hours.
[05:42] <newz2000> My son is only 5 years old, so I say "we" but really it was me.
[05:42] <robotgeek> soon, my company will sponsor me to mentor a bunch of kids to build robots :)
[05:43] <newz2000> will you use these kits or are you going to do something more DIY, such as PICs/Basic Stamps?
[05:44] <robotgeek> i'm looking into building the mintu mp3 player for myself using pics
[05:45] <newz2000> do you have a pic programmer yet?
[05:45] <robotgeek> soon, i will have a debugger kit, muhahaha
[05:45] <Burgundavia> newz2000: what sort of specs? we are pretty sparing with the specs
[05:46] <newz2000> Burgundavia: Specs for usability testing... prompted by discussion on the mailing list from Friday.
[05:46] <newz2000> I'm classifying them under ubuntu-website though.
[05:46] <newz2000> Robotgeek: Have you found one that works under Linux? I've got two and can't get either to work right.
[05:46] <Burgundavia> not really
[05:47] <Burgundavia> we have been pretty quiet recently
[05:47] <newz2000> ok. I see that people really aren't using sub-pages much for the specs.
[05:47] <newz2000> That makes me sad. I love order and wikis are so flat. :-(
[05:47] <robotgeek> newz2000: nope, i dont think i could use linux at work (as such)
[05:48] <Burgundavia> moin makes subpages and name spaces hard
[05:48] <robotgeek> for this particular thing, alteast. best app for the job
[05:48] <newz2000> Burgundavia: Tell me about it.
[05:49] <Burgundavia> people not using subpages for specs, like putting all specs under Spec/ is the main reason we hived off the help stuff
[05:49] <newz2000> yeah, that was a good plan.
[05:49] <newz2000> Its my dream one day to see more unification and structure to the Ubuntu website.
[05:49] <newz2000> Instead of everyone making a new website for this or that.
[05:50] <Burgundavia> well, you are the webmaster now
[05:51] <newz2000> Well, this is not a website run by a webmaster. This is a community website run by the community.
[05:51] <robotgeek> oh, are you our webmaster newz2000 ?
[05:51] <newz2000> Si
[05:51] <newz2000> But I like robots too. :D
[05:52] <robotgeek> newz2000: heh, i filed a bug about safari not rendering our website correctly :)
[05:53] <Burgundavia> newz2000: the one thing I would love to work on is a new ubuntu.com
[05:53] <Burgundavia> the main page, that is
[05:53] <newz2000> Burgundavia, sign up for the website team: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-website
[05:54] <newz2000> robotgeek: where did you file that bug?
[05:54] <robotgeek> on launchpad, moment
[05:54] <Burgundavia> newz2000: I already have edit rights, but I am not about to start changing the main page willynilly
[05:54] <newz2000> You have edit rights on the main website?
[05:54] <newz2000> Oh, you're corey
[05:54] <Burgundavia> absolutely, check recentchanges
[05:55] <newz2000> Nice to meet you.
[05:55] <Burgundavia> nice to meet you as wel
[05:55] <Burgundavia> my timezone is the same as mdz's, so our schedules don't overlap much
[05:55] <newz2000> Where are you?
[05:55] <Burgundavia> Victoria BC Canada
[05:55] <newz2000> I'm in Des Moines Iowa USA.
[05:56] <newz2000> US/Central time zone
[05:56] <Burgundavia> I thought you were in the UK, for some reason
[05:56] <Burgundavia> well that makes it much easier
[05:56] <robotgeek> https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bug/51312 newz2000 
[05:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51312 in ubuntu-website "Website renders incorrectly using safari" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[05:56] <newz2000> oh, that bug
[05:56] <newz2000> yeah, the system doesn't handle lower screen res that well.
[05:57] <newz2000> We'll fix that on the next rev, later this summer
[05:57] <robotgeek> no, its not 800 x 600, its the next one
[05:58] <robotgeek> 1024x768 thats it
[05:58] <newz2000> what am I looking for... the overlapping of the nav bar?
[05:59] <robotgeek> pretty much
[05:59] <newz2000> Burgundavia: Yeah, it's lonely being in this hemisphere
[05:59] <robotgeek> newz2000: i'm in alabama :)
[05:59] <newz2000> robotgeek: The browser window is set to only 800 px wide. 
[05:59] <Burgundavia> even mdz spends several weeks a year in london
[05:59] <newz2000> I'm heading there in a couple weeks
[06:00] <robotgeek> i'll check it out again, newz2000 
[06:00] <robotgeek> newz2000: alabama? where in?
[06:00] <Burgundavia> hmm, googling a person is quite interesting
[06:00] <newz2000> robotgeek: no, London.
[06:00] <robotgeek> hmm, okay. /me is disapponited, lol
[06:01] <newz2000> sorry. :)
[06:01] <Burgundavia> evening mine bruder
[06:01] <Madpilot> greetings
[06:01] <robotgeek> howdy Madpilot 
[06:01] <Burgundavia> did you get up today?
[06:02] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, flying? No, hung out here this afternoon then went to work
[06:02] <Burgundavia> pity, as the weather is gorgeous
[06:02] <Madpilot> there were some wicked CB cells moving through - nasty little squalls dumping lots of rain
[06:02] <Burgundavia> newz2000: for the confused, Madpilot is my older brother
[06:03] <newz2000> Ah. Cool. Also in BC?
[06:03] <Madpilot> we're both in Victoria
[06:06] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, for flying, the wx today has been mixed - lots of FEW035CB in the reports - which means "wannabe-thunderstorms at 3,500ft" - not nice
[06:06] <Burgundavia> hmm, fun
[06:07] <newz2000> robotgeek: I aspire to do more professional (paid) writing. My one by-line was for a book review in Servo magazine.
[06:07] <newz2000> 123 PIC Microcontroller experiments for the evil genius
[06:07] <newz2000> I highly recomend it if you want a book on PICs.
[06:10] <newz2000> The programmer in that book (PicKit 1) is actually supported under linux, but doesn't seem to work in dapper.
[06:10] <robotgeek> newz2000: mostly have done fine with the manuals
[06:11] <Burgundavia> newz2000: what are the details of this summers revamp of the website?
[06:12] <newz2000> Burgundavia: Still under discussion. I'm suggesting to people with input to file bugs.
[06:12] <robotgeek> most of my work in the future will be writing drivers for boards etc which use pics
[06:12] <newz2000> I say "summer" but my guess is that it won't start until the last week of August.
[06:13] <newz2000> robotgeek: Are you doing anything with USB yet?
[06:13] <Burgundavia> are we closer to getting a ubuntu-website mailing list?
[06:14] <robotgeek> newz2000: nope, we do all our stuff using ethernet
[06:15] <robotgeek> i should be working on it in the future though (for mp3 player)
[06:15] <newz2000> Burgundavia: I think we have one... I approved it on Friday, however I didn't know how to complete some of the admin details. So maybe its not active until I do that.
[06:16] <newz2000> I didn't get to that item on my todo list until most of the people were gone for the day, so tomorrow morn I should get the advise I need to finish the admin stuff.
[06:16] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[06:17] <newz2000> I honestly dont know how we got by without a webmaster before. I don't understand how Henrik got anything else done. There is so much to do.
[06:17] <Burgundavia> you can push stuff off to me, if you want
[06:18] <newz2000> Have you ever played with aspseek before?
[06:18] <robotgeek> hmm, thanks to google video's download for ipod option
[06:18] <Burgundavia> nope
[06:19] <robotgeek> only way for me to watch google videos
[06:19] <newz2000> That's my pet project I'm trying to find time for... right now I'm so frustrated by search.
[06:19] <newz2000> If you go to www.ubuntu.com and type in the search box you get no results...
[06:19] <newz2000> most of the info is on either wiki.u.c or help.u.c.
[06:19] <newz2000> I'd like to find some way to make searching work across sites.
[06:20] <newz2000> However it should be controllable... for example, when searching for help we want to limit the search to the helpsite.
[06:20] <newz2000> I've done this before using ht://dig, but it looks like that product is abandoned.
[06:20] <newz2000> Aspseek seems to be a good alternative... modern, robust, active.
[06:21] <newz2000> Plus it's FOSS, which I think is important.
[06:21] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: you have ops on -offtopic, no
[06:21] <Burgundavia> ?
[06:27] <Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco
[06:27] <jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia
[06:28] <robotgeek> one by one, the doc team files in :)
[06:28] <jsgotangco> heh i will just grab some lunch
[06:35] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, I do, yeah - why?
[06:35] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: never mind,
[06:40] <Burgundavia> ok, I officially hate my desktop keyboard
[06:41] <Burgundavia> it is too stiff
[06:49] <newz2000> bedtime.
[06:49] <newz2000> robotgeek: http://www.create.ucsb.edu/~dano/CUI/ looks promising
[06:49] <newz2000> thanks for the info all
[08:25] <Burgundavia> night all
[09:11] <mdke_> sladen: no, afraid not - signing up to the forums is a good idea
[09:14] <mdke_> morning
[09:15] <jsgotangco> hi
[12:09] <manicka> mdke, any news on the udsf/forums porting project?
[12:09] <mdke> manicka: no, we should draw up some ideas and start documenting 
[12:09] <mdke> the proces
[12:09] <mdke> s
[12:09] <mdke> gah
[12:10] <manicka> hmm, ok
[12:10] <manicka> here's a few thoughts
[12:11] <manicka> the pages on the udsf are tricky to port to moin moin because of the templates that have been used system wide
[12:11] <manicka> I've found it easier to take the pages straight from the forums instead
[12:11] <manicka> but the udsf is a good resource for which docs to target
[12:12] <mdke> right
[12:12] <manicka> kb also claims to have about 5 people interested in working on the project
[12:14] <manicka> back to porting, I've been experimenting with copying and pasting from the forums into the moin moin 1.5 personal gui and the tweaking the resulting code
[12:14] <manicka> works quite well
[12:15] <mdke> good. One more thing that needs to be quite clearly explained is to focus on avoiding duplicating material that already exists on the help wiki
[12:15] <manicka> I've also asked Ryan to clarify some licensing questions here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=225453
[12:16] <manicka> no answer as yet
[12:16] <manicka> duplication could be avoided by a simple search
[12:16] <mdke> we need to clarify them from our side too
[12:16] <manicka> ok
[12:17] <manicka> hi
[12:17] <mdke> hi there romana 
[12:25] <mdke> manicka: I've answered your query on licensing
[12:32] <manicka> I just noticed
[12:33] <manicka> i wonder of that is still the case if the original author publishes there knowing that the material will be under that license
[12:34] <manicka> the last clause seems to void all those issues with permission
[12:35] <mdke> manicka: sorry, can you explain a bit more?
[12:35] <manicka> well
[12:35] <manicka> * Any of these conditions can be waived if you get permission from the copyright holder.
[12:36] <mdke> right, you get permission to waive conditions from the copyright holder
[12:36] <manicka> who is the copyright holder I guess is the question
[12:36] <mdke> the person who writes the material
[12:36] <mdke> all clear?
[12:37] <manicka> I think they would argue that they have the copyright, not the author
[12:38] <mdke> sorry, I don't understand at all. The Author *is* the person who writes the material
[12:40] <manicka> brb, phone
[01:13] <manicka> so mdke, the problem seems to come back to the original identified issues. It make the original porting of docs from the forums to the udsf a breach of copyright and subsequently difficult to port to the wiki
[01:13] <manicka> if obtaining permission of the author is the issue, you don't really need the udsf's involvement to do that
[01:15] <manicka> what is really needed is a team of forum members who would approach other members to get their permission or to assist them to post in on the wiki themselves
[01:15] <mdke> manicka: no, hang on.
[01:15] <mdke> porting of docs to udsf isn't a breach of copyright if the license is maintained (which it is) and if there is attribution (is this done?)
[01:16] <mdke> it's porting of docs to the help wiki that is a problem, and for which you need permission
[01:18] <manicka> yes attribution is done I guess, but permission is not sort
[01:19] <manicka> and  the license is the same
[01:19] <mdke> right, so you don't need permission then
[01:19] <manicka> ok, i see the dilemma
[01:19] <mdke> you only need permission to *change* any of the conditions
[01:20] <manicka> from the author
[01:20] <manicka> hmmm
[01:34] <manicka> so mdke. what is the answer to making this work?
[01:35] <mdke> manicka: I said in my post, you should ask the permission of the author to put the material into the public domain  before adding it to help.ubuntu.com
[01:35] <mdke> once we've resolved the licensing question, then we will revise that statement
[01:45] <manicka> mips has asked some valid questions in the thread. There is nothing in the sign up about agreeing to creative commons
[01:46] <mdke> there is, I believe
[01:47] <jjesse> morning
[01:47] <mdke> however, it should be much clearer, like on the bottom of every page. I opened a thread about that once, but it doesn't seem to have been implemented
[01:47] <mdke> morning jjesse 
[01:48] <jjesse> monring mdke (or probablly afternoon for you )
[01:48] <mdke> just about
[03:50] <mdke> do you guys have trunk/Rakefile? wtf is that?
[03:50] <dsas> it's a Makefile wrote in Ruby
[03:51] <mdke> why is it there?
[03:51] <mdke> and who made it?
[03:51] <mdke> trappist!
[03:52] <trappist> mdke!
[03:52] <mdke> trappist: what's that all about?
[03:53] <mdke> we need a policy of posting to the mailing list about new and funky things
[03:53] <trappist> I was hoping to condense some utilities into one place
[03:54] <mdke> ahuh
[03:55] <mdke> trappist: in particular?
[03:55] <trappist> building and validating, in particular
[03:55] <mdke> right
[03:56] <mdke> but doesn't building also already incorporate validating?
[03:56] <mdke> xsltproc spits out invalid xml
[03:56] <trappist> dunno, but a lot of validation happens apart from building, and I thought it'd be nice to consolidate them into one file, cut down on clutter
[03:57] <mdke> anyway, i was curious about what it was, nice to know. Maybe you can post about your ideas to the ML?
[03:57] <trappist> but of course I didn't delete validate.sh :)
[03:57] <trappist> can do.  probably shoulda done that in the first place
[03:58] <mdke> thanks
[03:59] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:00] <mdke> robotgeek: around?
[04:09] <mdke> hands up if you have contributed to the add-applications section of the desktop guide?
[04:43] <jsgotangco> nixternal: are you there?
[04:43] <jjesse> i think hes on vacation this week?  he sent out an email last week if i recall correctly
[04:43] <jsgotangco> oh yeah
[04:44] <jsgotangco> but he's not away on irc
[04:44] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:44] <jjesse> wow he's on a lot of channels
[04:45] <jsgotangco> crack addict
[04:51] <jsgotangco> "Inspired by Jonatha's cry for action"
[04:57] <nixternal> hello!!!
[04:59] <nixternal> jsgotangco: im here for a quick second...im enjoying the hot hot weather on vacation ;)
[04:59] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:12] <jjesse> didn't realize i had made a call to action :)
[05:18] <mdke> jjesse: sure, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-July/006860.html
[06:10] <jjesse> did the build for the releasenotes for kubuntu get removed from the makefile?
[06:12] <jjesse> ah it was changed from make krn to make release-notes
[06:44] <LaserJock> mdke: why will links be broken with the new articles?
[06:44] <jjesse> because they moved directories?
[06:44] <mdke> LaserJock: because there were a lot of cross references, which were to things which are now not in the same document
[06:44] <LaserJock> but don't the articles just point to the existing docs?
[06:45] <LaserJock> oh wait, sorry
[06:45] <LaserJock> I was just thinking of the packaging guide
[06:45] <LaserJock> which probably won't get all split up
[06:45] <LaserJock> sorry, brain fart
[06:45] <mdke> so <xref linkend="add-applications"> in the desktopguide is now broken, because there isn't a section in the desktopguide called "add-applications", it has its own article
[06:46] <mdke> I'm actually a bit stumped on how to fix those... I'll need to hash something out with upstream
[08:20] <jjesse> i'm looking for someone to apply the diff i sent to the release notes and also someone to review them please ;)
[08:20] <LaserJock> jjesse: you can't apply it yourself?
[08:21] <jjesse> LaserJock: forgot to copy my key and the email w/ the password over when i redid this virtual machine
[08:21] <jjesse> i have to find it on my computer at home
[08:21] <LaserJock> jjesse: ah
[08:22] <LaserJock> jjesse: dang, that's a decent sized patch
[08:23] <jjesse> its basically a total rewrite for bug #48525
[08:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48525 in kubuntu-docs "Problems with Dapper Release Notes for Kubuntu" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48525
[08:25] <LaserJock> jjesse: well, it validates. I'll commit it.
[08:25] <jjesse> LaserJock: thanks
[08:25] <jjesse> does doc.ubuntu.com still get updated nightly?
[08:25] <LaserJock> something like that
[08:25] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what it is exactly
[08:26] <LaserJock> but I made changes to the packaging guide and they showed up fairly quickly
[08:26] <LaserJock> so it is being generated
[08:26] <jjesse> cool, its my oldest bug :)
[08:26] <LaserJock> although i don't think the status reports are getting generated
[08:42] <jjesse> LaserJock: thanks for uploading that one :)
[08:42] <jjesse> i know it was pretty big
[08:42] <LaserJock> np
[08:57] <jjesse> wow its 97 degrees F out and feels like 107
[08:58] <LaserJock> yeah, we just got the cool-down in the last few days
[10:40] <locutus_> Does anyone have a list of all the instillation options for Ubuntu?
[10:45] <LaserJock> how do you mean?
[10:48] <locutus_> I have a problem that I've seen on some of the forums...
[10:49] <locutus_> When I load Ubuntu, it starts out just fine...
[10:49] <locutus_> But then it freezes up at "Mounting root file systems"
[10:49] <LaserJock> k
[10:49] <locutus_> I'm wondering if anyone has a list explaining the boot or install options.
[10:49] <locutus_> All of them.
[10:50] <LaserJock> for the text installer?
[10:50] <locutus_> I think so.
[10:50] <locutus_> It's the install options when you put in the CD right at startup.
[10:51] <LaserJock> hmmm, I don't know of a list. You might ask the ubuntu-users mailing list or #ubuntu
[10:52] <locutus_> Okay.  TX.
[10:52] <manicka> hmm, he should use the alternate cd
[10:59] <LaserJock> manicka: I think that is what he was using
[11:00] <manicka> that issue tends to occur with he desktop CD... anyway
[11:01] <LaserJock> hmm
[11:17] <LaserJock> hi theCore 
[11:35] <theCore> hello LaserJock!