/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/08/02/#edubuntu.txt

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HedgeMagehi mhz 01:10
mhzHedgeMage: hi there01:10
mhzHedgeMage: can i ask you a favor?01:10
HedgeMagemhz: ask away :)01:11
HedgeMagewhat's up?01:11
mhzI have no web connection at home now01:11
mhzHedgeMage: I am currenetly using a cibercafe01:11
mhzHedgeMage: so, I wont be able to be on tomorrows meeting01:11
mhz(ciber is not open at 12 UTC)01:12
HedgeMagemhz: np, I think it may get cancelled since I just found out the exact date and time today, and it never made it on to the fridge.01:12
mhzHedgeMage: could you tell ogra and RichEd that I'll be "back" as sonn as possible?01:12
HedgeMagenp will do01:12
=== HedgeMage hugs you
HedgeMagehaving problems with your net connection at home/work?01:13
mhzthank you!01:13
mhznope01:13
mhzjust can't afford it so far :(01:13
HedgeMageahh01:13
HedgeMageunderstood01:13
HedgeMageI'd lend you some of mine but that would have to be one heck of a long cable... ;)01:14
mhzhehehe, indeed01:14
mhzI'll see if a neighbour lends me wifi access01:14
mhzat least a couple of hours a day01:15
mhz(mostly emails and IRC)01:15
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bddebianHowdy02:44
Burgundaviahey bddebian02:47
bddebianHi Burg02:49
bddebianErr Burgundavia02:49
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Amaranthyay, fixed it03:33
Amaranthhacky fix03:34
Amaranthhad to chown willowng:willowng /usr/share/willowng because sqlite writes to a temp file then moves to the original DB file03:35
LaserJockAmaranth: do you have a bzr/svn repo for alacarte?03:44
Amaranthnope, just gnome cvs03:45
LaserJockk03:45
Amaranthogra: http://dev.realistanew.com/releases/willowng/0.2/deb-src03:48
Amaranthif it doesn't work i'll scream03:48
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pygimorning10:53
Amaranthmorning11:04
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eniac_petrovlunch :-)11:15
Amaranthogra: did you get the link to my source package?11:20
ograyes, sorry, havent had time to look yet ... there is a gnome-screensaver update for dapper i have to check first ... yours is next on my list11:21
Amaranthalright11:21
Amaranthjust making sure it didn't get lost in the 8 hour or so gap :)11:22
ogranah11:22
ograi keep my baclogs ;)11:22
ogra*backlogs11:22
Amaranththe only thing i can think of that might be a problem is that i chown willowng:willowng /usr/share/willowng in the postinst11:23
ograthat should be fine 11:24
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ograat least i dont know a policy that forbids it11:24
Amaranthalright11:25
Amaranththat was a PITA :P11:25
juliuxhi ogra 11:25
Amaranthos.seteuid() != os.setuid() and sqlite writes to a temp file then moves to the db file on commit, took me days to figure those out11:25
juliuxogra, do you have an idea why my request for cds are not approved? i have e-mailed marilize and she said yes yes you get the cds but nothing happens11:26
ogradunno, did you try to ask her in -devel ?11:26
juliuxnot yet11:27
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ChipzzHi, I was told I could ask questions related to ltsp here11:36
ChipzzI'm not exactly using ltsp, but a very similar setup (basically I have everything configured myself)11:37
ChipzzI have pxelinux set up correctly, nfs on the server is working fine11:38
Chipzzbut when the client boots and starts executing the scripts in /etc/rcS.d/, stuff goes haywire11:38
Chipzzspecifically, something in S10udev makes / go away11:39
Chipzzis there before udevplug, but after udevplug runs, it's just gone11:39
Chipzzerrr11:39
Chipzz/ is there before udevplug, but after udevplug runs, it's just gone11:39
ograwhat do you do with that setup ?11:41
Chipzzbasically starting X and running a pygtk program11:42
ograyou could probably just use the ltsp setup and modify it ... thats in many cases easier than fiddling with our oen stuff11:42
ograon the netbooted client ? 11:42
Chipzzwell I have most of the stuff set up correctly11:42
Chipzzyes the pygtk app runs locally on the netbooted client :)11:42
ograthats exactly what we do in ltsp ...11:43
ograwe start an X server and run ldm (pygtk based login manager)11:43
Chipzzuhu, but ltsp-client depends on ldm | gdm | kdm , which is not what I want11:43
ograltsp has the functionallity builtin to create the right tmpfs directorys where you need rw access ...11:44
ograor do you export your nfsroot rw ?11:44
Chipzznope, I export it ro11:44
ograif not there will be indeed probs with udev11:44
ograsince it will need write access at a certain level ... other apps as well ...11:45
Chipzzbut the ltsp-client scripts run quite late in the rcS sequence?11:45
ograi'D really go with a default ltsp setup and then modify the chroot11:45
ogranope, the rc sequence is cleaned out by the chroot setup script ...11:45
Chipzzcan you just tell me what's needed to get udev working, or where to look?11:46
ograthere are only a handfull rd scripts left11:46
ogra*rc11:46
ograthats rather a question for keybuk ... i have no idea which directories need to be writable for udev ...11:46
Chipzzthis thing is allmost setup, I think it's 99% done or sth :P11:46
ograhow did you create the chroot ? debootstrap ? 11:47
Chipzznope, install on a disk with ubuntu-server install11:47
ograyou could have a look at ltsp-build-client in the ltsp source 11:47
Chipzzallready did that :)11:47
ograthats our script that creates the chroot and makes the modifications to the dirs11:48
ChipzzI also did most of the things that script runs11:48
ChipzzI know :)11:48
ogramake sure to have the tmpfs ready ... 11:48
ograwe use udev umodified in ltsp ...11:48
Chipzzunmodified* ?11:48
ograso it must be your base setup where it goes wrong11:48
ograyep11:49
ograthe defaulr ubuntu udev ... no tweaks or scripts 11:49
ogra*default11:49
Chipzzyeah11:49
ChipzzI actually tested the ubuntu-server install on a local disk in the client first, and that worked fine ;)11:49
Chipzzone thing I do have is I have /tmp as a tmpfs in /etc/fstab11:50
Chipzzbut that's not mounted yet at the time udev runs in rcS11:50
ograinitramfs should have it mounted ...11:51
Chipzz?11:51
ogradid you do the tweaks to initramfs we do in ltsp-build-client ? 11:51
Chipzzhrrrrm, I should check that11:51
ChipzzI tweaked the initrams with the 1 options, ie BOOT=nfs and MODULES=netboot11:52
ograthere are some lines that modify initramfs.conf ... look for that 11:52
Chipzzs/1/2/11:52
Chipzzdid that11:52
ograyeah11:52
Chipzzalso made the symlink /etc/mtab11:52
ograand regenerated the initramfs ?11:52
Chipzzjup11:52
ograand copied it to tftpboot ...11:52
ChipzzI had some trouble without those lines at first :)11:52
Chipzzyup, did all that11:52
ogra(also note that we aim to keep compatibility with debian, so some lines are valid for the in that scrip and some for us)11:53
Chipzzactually I have my whole chroot in /var/lib/tftpboot11:53
ograand export that ? 11:53
ograheh11:53
Chipzzyes11:53
Chipzzit's exported via nfs11:53
ograwhat des the error say you see on the screen ? 11:54
ogrado you get dropped into a busybox shell ? 11:54
Chipzzsomething about not being able to find usplash-write11:55
ograoh11:55
Chipzzbut there's nothing on / at all11:55
ograright, you did a server install :)11:55
Chipzzyeah but installed usplash on the client too ;)11:55
ograso you are sure the nfs mount is definatelty working ? and you are not left in initramfs ? 11:56
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ChipzzI'm sure of that :)11:56
Chipzzcurrently I have modified pxelinux to add init=/bin/bash, so I can debug the issue manually11:57
ograi'd really go with ltsp and add an lts.conf that starts your pygtk script instead of ldm ...11:59
ChipzzI have sprinkled some 'ls /' in /etc/init.d/udev, and the last one to work is the one before udevplug11:59
ograinstead of reimplementing ltsp by hand :)12:00
ChipzzI suspect that somehow I would have the same problem with ltsp though ;)12:02
ograits a matter of 20min work ...12:02
ograwhy should you ?12:02
Chipzzjust a feeling12:02
Chipzzso, anyway, I should ask keybuk?12:03
Chipzzthing is, the chroot for the client is allready set up, and it would take more work to duplicate that again in the ltsp chroot12:03
Chipzzbut I'll check if the ltsp chroot boots later12:04
ograwell, setting up a ltsp chroot if you have a dapper cd around is done in less than 10 min12:06
Chipzzogra: I already have a ltsp chroot set up ;)12:06
Chipzzbeside the chroot I had earlier12:06
ogracreating a lts.conf is a matter of 1min ... and copying your pygtk script into the chroot os taking as long as the cp :)12:07
ogras/os/is/12:07
ograso you should be dont in 20min max ...12:07
ogra*done12:07
Chipzzuhu, anyway, I currently do not have access to the client anyway (it's in a friends room who'se still asleep, so not much chance of doing anything about it now anyway)12:10
ChipzzI guess my main gripe with ltsp-client is the Depends on 'ldm | sdm-terminal | x-display-manager'12:14
Chipzzwhich pulls in a lot of stuff I don't need12:14
ograyes, it will install ldm (some kb) but you can avoid that its been used12:15
ogras/been/being/12:15
ograand you need pygtk anyway ... all ldm pulls in alongside is the clearlooks engine and its deps ... its not really much12:16
ograand diskspace is cheap ... especially on diskless netbooting machines ;)12:16
Chipzz*g*12:17
Chipzzit's mostly a matter of principles12:18
ChipzzI had the other install trimmed down a lot too12:18
Chipzzremoving unneeded packages etc12:18
ograyou could just install sdm ;)12:18
ograit has no big dependencys12:18
Chipzzyeah that would most likely be the best choice ;)12:19
=== pygi_ is now known as pygi
ograDepends: openssh-client | ssh-client | ssh, dash, xserver-xorg12:19
ograthree deps only ...12:19
ograone is already there anyway12:19
ograerr two12:19
Chipzzyup I saw that :)12:19
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cbx33ping highvoltage 12:45
cbx33hi guys12:46
cbx33how can I prevent my ubuntu from trying to access apt etc when I'm using a dial up connection?12:46
cbx33basically I don't want it to access the net work unless I ask it to12:46
cbx33it just wasted 80K of my 500K allowance for this month :(12:47
highvoltagecbx33: pong, and i feel your pain, btw12:50
cbx33grr....12:51
highvoltagei usually have about 10MB per month. 500k is hectic12:51
cbx33i thought you'd have some clever way round it12:51
highvoltage(although, i have more these days now that it's cheaper)12:51
cbx33If I update apt, it shouldn't try again should it?12:51
cbx33highvoltage: any luck on finding a SIM?12:51
highvoltageon the boxes i dial up on, i have my updates completely disabled in /etc/apt/sources.list12:51
highvoltagecbx33: yes12:51
cbx33highvoltage: that'll do it?12:52
highvoltageyep12:52
highvoltageupdate-manager can't update if it doesn't have somewhere to update from :)12:52
cbx33so you just comment out everything?12:52
highvoltagei have one line in with my own repository, in which i store updates downloaded from another machine12:52
cbx33we need a GPRS mode for ubuntu12:53
highvoltagebut yes, you can comment out everything, then do an apt-get update12:53
highvoltageit was pointed out at the summit too12:53
highvoltagealthough it's quite an unsexy problem, so there doesn't seem to be many people interested in fixing it12:53
highvoltagebrb12:53
cbx33heheh12:53
cbx33bbl12:56
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pygihey RichEd 01:15
RichEdjust got time for a hi pygi ... working hard today at head office :)01:16
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jsgotangcogood evening01:33
cbx33sorry highvoltage had to go home01:33
cbx33hey jsgotangco 01:33
cbx33howz it going01:33
jsgotangcohey cbx3301:33
jsgotangcopretty good01:33
cbx33:D01:33
jsgotangcoi had some sushi =)01:33
=== cbx33 has never had sushi
pygicbx33, how's music= ;)01:33
jsgotangcocbx33: you're missing a lot01:34
cbx33http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds01:34
cbx33pygi, there are three more ideas01:34
jsgotangcocbx33: but then i dunno how authentic sushi can be in that area01:34
cbx33some ideas came up on the mailing list01:34
cbx33so I guess I should try those out too01:34
cbx33jsgotangco, hehe01:34
Chipzzcbx33: System -> Administration -> Software Sources01:37
Chipzzyou can disable automagically downloading new packages etc there01:37
pygiChipzz, he cant disable downloading security updates there tho =P01:38
pygiwell, he can, but he has to remove one package01:38
pygi(me forgot how is it called)01:38
Chipzzpygi: he can't?01:38
Chipzzthat's stupid01:38
pygiChipzz, I think he can't :)01:38
ChipzzI'm sure he can01:38
Chipzzthing is, I can't currently check, since I'm on edgy, and the GUI for that just changed the other day01:39
=== Chipzz reboots other laptop in to dapper
cbx33ping highvoltage 02:08
highvoltagepong cbx33 02:09
cbx33pm02:09
highvoltagek02:10
jsgotangcodo we have a meeting?02:18
cbx33it's 8UTC today isn't it?02:20
jsgotangcoyes02:20
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Chipzzpygi: it seems you can disable it02:57
Chipzzpygi: security updates is a seperate option, but only for installing without asking02:57
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bddebianHello04:07
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cbx33http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu7-1.mp304:23
cbx33hi RichEd 04:23
cbx33hi rodarvus 04:23
rodarvushi cbx33 04:23
cbx33latest more "organic" " vivid" theme :p04:23
cbx33as per a request on the mailing list04:23
rodarvuscbx33, I'm asking Jane to join #edubuntu04:23
cbx33ok cool04:23
rodarvusconversation via msn is too confuse :)04:23
cbx33sorry rodarvus 04:24
rodarvusshe asks me stuff and then pastes conversation between you two04:24
cbx33hehe04:24
rodarvusmuch better if we talk here04:24
cbx33sorry dude04:24
rodarvuscbx33, don't worry :)04:24
cbx33RichEd, how was the meeting?04:24
lucasvoanybody can tell me how I can finish pending merges in bzr?04:26
cbx33lucasvo, i think you commit04:26
jsgotangcohey rodarvus :)04:27
rodarvushey jsgotangco :)04:28
jsgotangcorodarvus: como e voce?04:28
rodarvuscbx33, I'll help Jane configure her irc client during her lunch time (in 30 minutes)04:29
rodarvusjsgotangco, tudo bem, e voc?04:29
cbx33ok 04:29
rodarvusjsgotangco, you almost got it right - our "verb to be" is quite hard to get right04:29
rodarvus(and hard to explain too)04:29
jsgotangcoyeah im struggling hah04:29
rodarvusbut the right is "como est voc"04:30
jsgotangcoim like trying to make some sense of the similar spanish words to no avail lol04:30
rodarvusjsgotangco, are you really studying portuguese?04:30
jsgotangcorodarvus: its an interest, for some reason i cannot explain04:31
rodarvuswell, it resembles spanish a little04:31
jsgotangcorodarvus: hopefully its not because i grew up with my dad playing jazz samba all day when i was a kid04:31
rodarvussou = soy,  = es, est = esta, estamos = estamos, etc04:31
rodarvusI have great interest in sino-based languages04:32
rodarvusbut never got around to study them04:32
cbx33brb04:32
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jsgotangcoits probably because my native language has some spanish built-in so its a bit easier for me04:34
rodarvusreally?04:35
jsgotangcosure, my middle name is Santos :)04:35
rodarvushaha04:35
rodarvussantos is portuguese!04:35
jsgotangcomy mom has foreign blood04:36
jsgotangcobut it is so diluted already lol04:36
ograj*s*gotangco :)04:36
jsgotangcomy surname is actually my grandfather's real name04:37
rodarvusoh04:37
rodarvusnice04:37
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highvoltageBurgwork05:13
cbx33I'm back !!! :D05:36
Amaranthogra: get a chance to look at the package?06:18
ograAmaranth, not yet, but i romise i'll have it done before the meeting06:19
ogra*promise06:19
Amaranthalright06:19
Amaranththat's in 4 hours, right?06:19
ogra20:00 UTC06:20
Amaranth3 1/2 hours, close enough :)06:21
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=== Petaris resumes looking at Iceland as a good place to move to
PetarisIn December 2004 Iceland's population totalled 293.577 people of which around 180.000 lived in the capital, Reykjavik, and surrounding areas.06:30
PetarisThe perfect place for someone who hates crowds06:30
Petaris:)06:30
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LaserJockdepends on how big it is06:32
Petarisbig enough06:32
PetarisThe land of the free keeps loosing its freedoms06:33
Petaris:/06:33
LaserJockIceland's got to much volcanic activity for my taste06:33
Petarisgeo-thermal power though06:33
Petarisgood education system06:33
Petarisgood health care06:34
Petarisno Bush06:34
rodarvusIceland is one of the places I'd like to live on, someday06:34
rodarvusIceland, Norway, Japan and China are my prime candidates06:34
LaserJockmy chemistry prof in undergrad hiked across Iceland once06:34
PetarisJapan would be cool, but too crowded06:35
PetarisNorway would be an option though06:35
Petarishowever with Iceland you can have dual citizenship06:35
PetarisYou can become an Icelandic citizen but still maintain your US citizenship06:36
Petaris*just in case06:36
LaserJockI think I'll stick to the US, and maybe New Zealand06:36
rodarvusbut actually, I don't think it is too easy for one to move to Iceland06:36
LaserJockI'm still trying to recover from my first/last international experience06:36
rodarvus(unless they have different policies, based on country you're from)06:37
rodarvusLaserJock, why "last"?06:37
ograLaserJock, was it this shocking to meet us ? 06:37
LaserJockogra: the people there were great06:38
rodarvusyeah, I was wondering that too :P06:38
LaserJockthe French didn't treat me so well, though ;-)06:38
ograi mean, i know i scared elmo with my shorts ... :)06:38
LaserJockhehe06:38
ograbut i didnt know about others :)06:38
LaserJockhighvoltage and I just laughed06:39
rodarvusyou scared me with your shorts >:-)06:39
ograheh06:39
rodarvusjust kidding ;)06:39
highvoltageLaserJock: how did you know?06:39
ograi promise i'll wear longer ones in wiesbaden06:39
LaserJocknah, you should keep the trend06:39
=== ogra goes to carry his desk upstairs ...
=== highvoltage sees now
rodarvusogra, btw, how do you expect the weather to be in wiesdbaden in 20 days from now?06:40
LaserJockI just watched a show on TV about a CEO that has been known to walk around in such atire06:40
rodarvus(asking to plan clothes I'll take in my luggage)06:40
highvoltagegeez, i'm about 40 km's from johannesburg atm, and it's the coldest recordest day in Johannesburg ever06:40
highvoltageit even snowed briefly06:40
highvoltage(although i didn't see any of it)06:41
rodarvusits quite cold in here too, about 7c06:41
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highvoltageglobal warming my ass06:41
highvoltage:)06:41
LaserJockI think I just need to try it a few more times, I was just so thankful to get back to the US06:42
LaserJockbut a few more dev summits, who knows...06:43
highvoltageheh06:43
LaserJockif I can go a few times without loosing my laptop or wallet and I'll feel better06:43
highvoltagei hope i'll make another dev summit06:43
Amaranthhighvoltage: we had more 100F days in july here than every before06:43
Amaranth100F is like 40C, i think06:44
highvoltagei have to contribute some more first06:44
highvoltageit's been real hectic work-wise06:44
highvoltageAmaranth: wow06:44
highvoltageAmaranth: we have a law here, that if it ever gets 40C, kids don't have to go to school that day06:44
LaserJockAmaranth: where are you?06:44
highvoltagei heard about that law the first day of school06:44
highvoltageand i've watched the temprature every day during summer06:45
AmaranthLaserJock: Iowa06:45
highvoltageand the warmest it got was 38C once :(06:45
AmaranthThat's like the middle of the US06:45
LaserJockAmaranth: ah yeah, we just got ride of the heat over here in NV06:45
=== cbx33 has just seen a first mock of a new edubuntu wallpaper :D
Amaranthyeah, it's only 79F right now06:46
cbx33Oh and check this out if you're interested in sounds - http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu7-X-fade.mp306:46
LaserJockAmaranth: we had ~104 for over a week at least06:46
Petaris72 F here06:46
cbx33hi LaserJock 06:46
Amaranthtoday the high is supposed to be about 20F lower than yesterday06:46
LaserJockyeah06:46
AmaranthLaserJock: we had 2 or 3 104F days in a row, a couple 90s before that, and then a couple 100s before that06:46
Amaranthnasty heat06:46
LaserJockyep06:47
Amaranthyesterday was the worst, it rained in the morning so it was really humid06:47
Amaranthlike 80% relative humidity06:47
LaserJockwe ended up with a lot of fires, it was so hot and dry that we had big thunderstorms but the rain never made it to the ground06:47
LaserJockonly the lightning06:47
highvoltagegeez06:47
Amaranthwow06:48
Amaranthlots of fires in western nebraska06:48
cbx33rodarvus, did ya get anywhere with IRC?06:49
rodarvuscbx33, yeah06:49
=== rodarvus introduces Janis
cbx33ahh....I did wonder :p06:50
cbx33Hi Janis 06:50
rodarvusJanis is Jane Vita, my wife (and also an accomplished designer)06:50
LaserJockah, sweet06:50
LaserJockhi Janis 06:50
AmaranthJanis: Welcome!06:50
rodarvusJanis' english skills are a bit rusty, so please bear with us :)06:50
rodarvusI'll try to help as much as possible06:51
rodarvusbut I'd like to see Janis working with AliasVegas (and whoever else might be interested) in Edubuntu artwork06:51
LaserJockJanis: thanks for letting Rodrigo go to Paris, he was a lot of fun to hang out with :-)06:51
cbx33rodarvus, ah, they are already working together :p06:51
Amaranththat reminds me, i'm supposed to poke AliasVegas about some icons06:51
cbx33oooh Amaranth poke me06:51
cbx33I'll let her know06:52
cbx33she's making a sandwich right now :p06:52
Amaranthheh06:52
Amaranthcbx33: I need an icon for WillowNG's config tool06:52
cbx33ok cool06:52
Amaranthtangoish, if possible :)06:52
cbx33noted on her post its06:52
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Amaranthcbx33: thanks06:53
Janishi...06:59
JanisLaser Jock: rodarvus gave me no option07:00
Janishehe07:00
rodarvus:)07:01
ograrodarvus, it got a bit colder (~20C atm) but i suspect it will be warm again in 20 days 07:07
rodarvusoh, thats sad news :/07:07
ogranot as hot as it was the last days though ... (above 35C)07:08
ograits quite unusual for germany that its that hot07:08
ograHello Oliver,07:22
ograWas reading your use cases regarding LTSP dhcpd configuration. I know a 07:22
ografew people like Fred. Let me know if I can help.07:22
ograRegards,07:22
ograLOL07:22
ograthats nice :)07:22
ogragrmbl ... ltsp-build-client for edgy fails 07:26
ograErr http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main xserver-xorg-video-chips 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu1                                                                07:26
ogra  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) [IP: 82.211.81.182 80] 07:26
ograevil thing ...07:26
=== ogra builds a dapper ltsp for the start ...
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LaserJockoh heah, EC meeting today, right?07:28
ograyup07:29
LaserJockdo we have any member candidates?07:30
cbx33hmmm07:30
=== cbx33 hasn't heard of any
ogranot on the agenda it seems07:31
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Yagisan?07:33
YagisanIf I just turn up do I get membership ?07:33
LaserJockno, we have to have some fun first07:34
Yagisanoh ?07:35
Yagisanum, I turn up, I'm "helpful". I shower daily. anything else ?07:35
LaserJockyeah, what's the point of being on the Council if you can't grill people07:36
pygiYagisan, prepare wiki, apply on LP team, bla, bla07:36
jitjWould anyone be able to describe how to use Edubuntu with Novell for students to get to their file shares and possibly authentication?  I'm struggling with that part--setting up the clients has been relatively painless.07:38
ograErr http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main xserver-xorg-video-chips 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu1 07:41
ogra  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) [IP: 82.211.81.151 80] 07:41
ograrodarvus !!07:41
ograwhats up with that xserver ?07:41
rodarvusyou ask me? :)07:41
ogramust be your fault :P07:41
rodarvushaha07:41
ogragrmbl, seems ltsp-build-client doesnt pick up the --dist parameter ... that should have been a dapper chroot07:42
=== Yagisan wonders of ogras memory is enough to skip wiki et al tonight, or if he should do it when he's actually awake
ograYagisan, we need a wiki entry ... if the CC ever comes and asks on which base we approved you ad i just had a brain surgery i wont remember without it ...07:43
ogranot that i often have brain surgeries or something :)07:43
Yagisannp. I'll (when not half in dreamland) write a nice story for the wiki, that may or may not coincide with your reality, on why I'm an excellent candiate.07:45
ograjust list your contributions ... no need for stories ;)07:46
Yagisanah, but there's a story behind each one ;) (usually a bug that bothered me, but still)07:47
=== Yagisan falls off to sleep at last
lucasvohow comes that I am not subscribed to edubuntu-users list but still get the mails: 08:27
lucasvoIs being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.08:27
lucasvo    Post by non-member to a members-only list08:27
cbx33lucasvo, you havn't got some weird forwardng going on have you08:30
lucasvono08:31
lucasvoI subscribed to -dev a long time ago before -users even existed08:32
lucasvobut somehow it didn't autosubscribe me to -users08:32
lucasvoeven though I get the mails08:32
lucasvoanyway just manually subscribing fixed it08:32
=== juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #edubuntu
LaserJockogra: you ever heard of squeakland?08:34
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ogranope08:37
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LaserJockit's supposed to be educational squeak08:37
ogra_thinmeep meep08:37
cbx33ogra, if I wanted to talk about the new sounds I'm developing to the ubunut peeps08:37
LaserJockand they have source packages08:37
ogra_thinah08:37
cbx33where is the best place to do that08:38
cbx33is there a meeting which is appropriate>08:38
cbx33?08:38
LaserJockcbx33: the art list isn't sufficent?08:38
cbx33probably08:38
cbx33i dunno, I suppose......meh nevermind08:39
cbx33I'm just keen to get the level of feedback required to get them into ubuntu08:39
LaserJockheh, I don't think feedback really matters a whole lot08:40
cbx33oh well08:40
cbx33LaserJock, I'm just concious of how it will be judged if they are good enough 08:44
LaserJockogra: http://www.squeakland.org/school/drive_a_car/html/Drivecar12.html08:44
cbx33feedback from community is the only thing I can think of08:44
cbx33apart from someone on high saying...they're crap m808:45
cbx33does that make sense08:45
LaserJocksure08:45
LaserJockbut if you ask for feedback to the community at large I don't think you will learn much08:45
cbx33I did learn a lot08:45
cbx33don;t ask cos you won;t get anything :p08:45
LaserJocksome people won't like, some people will love it, and somebody will grab it and say it was there idea first ;-)08:46
cbx33heheh true08:46
cbx33I'm quite happy with the latest sound08:46
LaserJockanyway, I know what you mean though08:46
LaserJockwhat's the URL?08:46
cbx33http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu7-X-fade-rev.mp308:47
cbx33https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds08:47
cbx33there is a ink to them all there08:47
ogra_thinLaserJock, looks cool, do you know which license they use ?08:47
LaserJockcbx33: sweet!!!08:48
cbx33LaserJock, hehe - I kinda like the opening your eyes and ears as you load ubuntu08:48
cbx33like moving to a higher level of quality08:48
LaserJockogra_thin: I think it is just a squeak image that runs on the squeak vm08:49
ogra_thinto sad ... so it will also end up in multiverse 08:49
cbx33right08:49
ogra_thini wish they would reconsider the licensing at apple08:49
LaserJockyeah08:50
cbx33I'm off to do the dishes before the meeting08:50
LaserJockit really looks cool08:50
=== ogra_thin is looking at willowng now
Amaranthyay08:51
Amaranthmy client beeps when you say willowng08:51
ogra_thinhehe08:51
LaserJockogra_thin: hehe, the website says: "Squeak is Free, with a Liberal License:08:51
ogra_thini still highlight on hwdb ....08:51
ogra_thinand some idiot tells people to test their sound by playing /usr/share/hwdb-client/ping.wav IN #UBUNTU ALL THE TIME08:52
ogra_thineek08:52
ogra_thinsorry for the caps08:53
ogra_thinah, damned, i cant reboot atm ...08:54
ogra_thinand restarting dbus isnt an option either currently08:55
ogra_thinAmaranth, the package seems fine to me, but i'll have to wait with the reboot/dbus restart until after the meeting :(08:55
Amaranthogra_thin: pfft, just sudo /etc/dbus-1/event.d/99willowng start :)08:56
Amaranthdon't need dbus to do all the work for you :)08:56
ogra_thinheh, true08:56
ogra_thinsorry i'm a bit distracted today with all the room setup here08:57
ogra_thinhmm, port 8563 ?08:58
ogra_thinok, seems to work ;)08:59
Amaranthdoes the GUI work?09:00
ogra_thinAmaranth, kudos !09:00
ogra_thinworks great (at least for domain filter which i just tried09:00
ogra_thin)09:00
Amaranthyay09:00
ogra_thin(even from this thin client !)09:01
Amaranthyou know, i just realized something, i don't think i ever tested my changes to the bayesian filter09:01
ogra_thinwhile using the gui on the server 09:01
ogra_thinyou still have plenty of time for that 09:01
ogra_thinthe package is really awesome 09:01
ogra_thinwell done !09:01
Amaranthhaha, it doesn't work09:02
AmaranthNameError: global name 'urllib2' is not defined09:02
Amaranthogra_thin: I don't know how to make it install the training.db but not overwrite it on upgrades.09:02
ogra_thinthats a bug ... can be fixed later ... lets upload that stuff :)09:02
LaserJockhehe09:03
ogra_thinuploaded09:06
Amaranthcool09:11
cbx33congrats Amaranth 09:14
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ogra_thin********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in 7 mins ************09:53
lucasvoah, it's allready today?09:53
lucasvocool09:53
pygiogra, bleh, now you tell me :P09:53
cbx33ogra_thin, what happened to the fibbonaci sequence :p09:53
ogra_thin********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in 6 mins ************09:54
ogra_thin(for cbx33 )09:54
pygiogra_thin, wait 'till I eat :)09:54
cbx33heheh09:54
cbx33ogra, did you hear the new sound?09:54
cbx33it's more.....organic like you wanted :p09:55
cbx33http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu7-X-fade-rev.mp309:55
ogra_thinnot yet (i havent sound enabled here atm)09:55
cbx33ah hoky09:56
cbx33do you mind if I add sound to the agenda?09:56
pygicbx33, don't use that sound pls :P09:57
lucasvocbx33: nice09:57
lucasvocbx33: is it a startup sound?09:57
pygialtought I don't care, as I have sound disabled :P09:57
ogra_thin********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in 3 mins ************09:57
cbx33lucasvo, yes09:57
lucasvocbx33: in that case, I would make the fading at the beginning more slowly09:58
highvoltageogra_thin: lost weight?09:58
ogra_thinhighvoltage, yeah i have a client :P09:58
cbx33lucasvo, yes, it's not a finished product yet :p09:58
highvoltage*g*09:58
ogra_thin********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in 1 min ************09:59
ogra_thin********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in NOW !!! ************10:00
pygiogra, my dinner :(10:00
ogra_thinpygi, eat on schedule *shrug* :)10:01
=== pygi eats ogra_thin :)
lucasvopygi: why, he's thin, not fat... :) I would rather eat something else. 10:04
=== arkan0x [n=arkan0x@pc-6-76-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu
cbx33quick question, how much load does it take to run an app over SSH?10:58
cbx33like just the X front end?10:58
cbx33I'm new to this10:58
cbx33I have a mchine which does all the grunt work, but I want to use a laptop to run the GUI for a program10:59
cbx33but the program will be running on the grunt machine10:59
cbx33how would I do that11:00
Amaranthyour local x server does all the display work11:00
Amaranthbut the remote machine would do the rest of the processing11:00
crimsunssh -X, generally.11:00
cbx33hmmm11:00
cbx33I'll tell you the application.....it's in my recording studio11:00
cbx33I hate turning round whilst playing my keyboard to see the screen.11:00
cbx33I can't move the pc11:00
cbx33so I wanted to rig a laptop to display the multitrack recording software screen11:01
cbx33but it must be VERY low resource usage11:01
crimsunI presume you're running the recording software on the laptop? Does the laptop run Linux?11:02
cbx33the the recording software is on the grunt machine11:03
cbx33power hungry11:03
cbx33all the laptop woudl be for is a remote terminal11:03
cbx33would VNC or RDC be ok?11:03
cbx33or too power hungry?11:03
crimsunfrom experience you want to avoid shoving a network connection onto the machine running the recording software11:04
cbx33ok11:05
cbx33any other method11:05
cbx33I can't move my screen or pc for the recording machine11:05
crimsunreally long vga cable + another monitor.11:05
cbx33yeh swat I thought you'd say11:05
cbx33was hoping we had a cool linux work around11:05
crimsunseriously, with the network card spewing interrupts, your recording software will bear the grunt11:05
cbx33yeh11:06
cbx33true11:06
cbx33thanks crimsun 11:06
crimsunnp11:06
cbx33you're stopped me from wasting an afternoon11:06
=== Signifer [n=signifer@pool-70-16-7-154.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #edubuntu
AmaranthLaserJock: Seriously, create a team for that.11:13
LaserJockon LP?11:13
Amaranthyeah11:14
LaserJockk, gallium germanium gold and gadolinium are the elements that start with "g"11:16
highvoltagegallium sounds nicest, imho11:16
Amaranthyeah11:16
highvoltageeasy to spell and nice excutable11:16
=== highvoltage > bed
juliuxgn8 highvoltage 11:25
Amaranthpygi: $2.19!11:25
pygiAmaranth, #311:25
highvoltagenight juliux!11:25
pygi$311:25
Amaranth$3.1411:25
pygi$3.1511:25
Amaranthyou fail11:26
ogra_thinheh11:26
pygiwth? you fail :)11:26
Amaranthpi11:26
juliuxi think we need a bot for that ;)11:26
pygiAmaranth, you are not very precise :P11:26
pygi3.14 is a long distance from pi :P11:26
Amaranthpygi: You were supposed to extend the precision.11:26
lucasvothe xml data of kalzium is very easy indeed: 11:27
lucasvo  <element>11:27
lucasvo                <number>1</number>11:27
lucasvo                <name origin="Greek 'hydro' and 'gennao' for 'forms water'">Hydrogen</name>11:27
=== pygi has some upstream build-system problems, while ubuntu/debian packages seem to work
=== pygi is very confused
Amaranthlucasvo: all we need is a renderer :)11:28
lucasvoAmaranth: yes11:28
cbx33Amaranth, know how we can emulate the hovering bubbles of kalzium with python and gtk?11:28
=== lucasvo will read a pygtk tutorial for starters
Amaranthcbx33: I imagine that'll be a port of Qt Canvas to PyCairo11:29
ogra_thinAmaranth, you'll need functions ...11:29
Amaranthlike rodarvus said11:29
Amaranths/of/from/11:29
lucasvohttps://launchpad.net/products/gallium11:29
ogra_thini.e. kalzium has a cool feature with a time scale that shows the table based on when which element was discovered11:29
ogra_thinor based on melting point etc11:29
lucasvoAmaranth: did you do that?11:29
Amaranthah11:29
Amaranthlucasvo: LaserJock11:30
lucasvoah.11:30
cbx33Amaranth, is PyCairo easy to use?11:30
Amaranthogra_thin: Shouldn't be too hard. :)11:30
ogra_thinright11:30
Amaranthcbx33: I wouldn't say yes. :)11:30
cbx33I'm sure we can knock soemthing up11:30
ogra_thinbut there are a *lot* of such cool small features11:30
Amaranthogra_thin: That'll be easy compared to the element model.11:30
Amaranthogra_thin: It'll probably take 9 months to get most of it.11:30
Amaranthogra_thin: I hope we can have something useful as a replacement default in time for edgy+1 though.11:31
Amaranthwait, that is like 9 months from now :P11:31
cbx33Amaranth, element model?11:31
pygiAmaranth, just get a lot of contributors11:31
rodarvusPyCairo is as easy as a Canvas library can be11:31
Amaranthcbx33: the fancy diagram of the element, weren't you just talking about it?11:32
rodarvuswhich is saying a lot about it11:32
cbx33ah11:32
ogra_thinAmaranth, well, first concentrate on the (un)paied work ;)11:32
ogra_thinAmaranth, btw, did they deliver finally ?11:32
rodarvusbut the good news is that you won't have to "create" everything from scratch11:32
Amaranthogra_thin: nope11:32
LaserJockhttps://launchpad.net/people/gallium-dev11:32
rodarvusyou'll be able to base your work on the algorithms and ideas which already exist in Kalzium11:32
Amaranthogra_thin: supposed to be fedexing a batch of checks directly from mountain view today11:32
=== ogra_thin puts a note on his TODO to stress google
Amaranthogra_thin: dunno if mine will be in that batch11:33
ogra_thinAmaranth, please tell me tomorrow if anything arrived11:33
Amaranthi'm not home but i'll find a way to check11:33
ogra_thinyou deliver good work ... that should be paied11:33
ogra_thinespecially since they promised11:34
ogra_thin...severeral times11:34
rodarvusok, I need to leave for a while11:34
=== ogra_thin got his t-shirt for the last SoC 6 months belated fwiw
rodarvusfamily time11:35
rodarvusI'll be back in a bunch of hours11:35
lucasvoLaserJock: you here?11:35
rodarvus(after dinner)11:35
LaserJocklucasvo: yes11:35
lucasvoLaserJock: can you create a team with the devs and add me?11:35
=== ogra_thin goes downstairs ...
LaserJocklucasvo: I did, I though11:35
LaserJockt11:35
Amaranthoh man, another programming language that has it's compiler written in itself11:35
Amaranththose are a pain to bootstrap11:35
Amaranthor maybe i'm misunderstanding this guy11:36
lucasvoLaserJock: yes you did, indeed.11:36
lucasvoHow should we start?11:37
Amaranthlucasvo: specs11:37
lucasvoShould I spec the XML files?11:37
Amaranthlucasvo: we need an interpreter for the data (i'm pretty good with xml parsing), and a feature list for the first release11:37
lucasvoshould we notify the Kalzium devs?11:37
lucasvoAmaranth: ok, in that case you can do it11:37
=== lucasvo is not good in xml parsing at all
Amaranthlucasvo: You can write the specs. :)11:38
lucasvo:(11:38
=== lucasvo wants to code
=== lucasvo will first learn pygtk
Amaranthwhat are the main features of kalzium that we want in a release say, 2 months fron now?11:38
cbx33lucasvo, gisomount was my first packaging pygtk11:39
cbx33progbox.co.uk/gisomount11:39
lucasvoperiodic table view, detailview11:39
lucasvocbx33: yes I know it. :)11:40
cbx33Amaranth, hovering bubbles :p11:40
Amaranthhaha11:40
LaserJockyeah, I think the 3 things are:11:40
Amaranthi'd say we want to have the periodic table and the info about the elements11:40
LaserJock1)periodic view (with traditional layout)11:40
LaserJock2) info view with all the nice chemical details11:40
lucasvoshould I create a milestone?11:40
Amaranthkalzium is so slow...11:41
LaserJock3) bubbly type thing (can we do a rollover?)11:41
cbx33LaserJock, we discussed, probably with pyCairo11:41
LaserJock3) is nice but probably not neccesary for first release11:41
Amaranththe bubbly thing is not neccesary right away11:41
Amaranthwe can probably just use a popup for it11:42
LaserJockbasically, get take kalzium's data and make it not look like crap11:42
cbx33we could always have hover and it changes a box in the corner11:42
cbx33like an info box11:42
cbx33that'd work right?11:42
LaserJockyeah11:42
LaserJockyou basically need 3 levels of info11:42
lucasvocbx33: ++11:42
LaserJock1) generally layout of the periodic table (what row, or period is something in)11:43
cbx33Amaranth, is the plan to build the UI in glade11:43
cbx33and put in all the leemtns11:43
cbx33elemtsn11:43
LaserJock2) basic data like molecular weight11:43
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LaserJock3) all the gorey details11:43
cbx33or have a clever algorithm....that will create the periodic table for us?11:43
Amaranthcbx33: the UI will be built in glade but the table will be dynamic11:44
Amaranthbtw, i own #gallium11:44
cbx33thought you'd say that :p11:44
lucasvo->#gallium11:44

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