[01:10] <HedgeMage> hi mhz 
[01:10] <mhz> HedgeMage: hi there
[01:10] <mhz> HedgeMage: can i ask you a favor?
[01:11] <HedgeMage> mhz: ask away :)
[01:11] <HedgeMage> what's up?
[01:11] <mhz> I have no web connection at home now
[01:11] <mhz> HedgeMage: I am currenetly using a cibercafe
[01:11] <mhz> HedgeMage: so, I wont be able to be on tomorrows meeting
[01:12] <mhz> (ciber is not open at 12 UTC)
[01:12] <HedgeMage> mhz: np, I think it may get cancelled since I just found out the exact date and time today, and it never made it on to the fridge.
[01:12] <mhz> HedgeMage: could you tell ogra and RichEd that I'll be "back" as sonn as possible?
[01:12] <HedgeMage> np will do
[01:13] <HedgeMage> having problems with your net connection at home/work?
[01:13] <mhz> thank you!
[01:13] <mhz> nope
[01:13] <mhz> just can't afford it so far :(
[01:13] <HedgeMage> ahh
[01:13] <HedgeMage> understood
[01:14] <HedgeMage> I'd lend you some of mine but that would have to be one heck of a long cable... ;)
[01:14] <mhz> hehehe, indeed
[01:14] <mhz> I'll see if a neighbour lends me wifi access
[01:15] <mhz> at least a couple of hours a day
[01:15] <mhz> (mostly emails and IRC)
[02:44] <bddebian> Howdy
[02:47] <Burgundavia> hey bddebian
[02:49] <bddebian> Hi Burg
[02:49] <bddebian> Err Burgundavia
[03:33] <Amaranth> yay, fixed it
[03:34] <Amaranth> hacky fix
[03:35] <Amaranth> had to chown willowng:willowng /usr/share/willowng because sqlite writes to a temp file then moves to the original DB file
[03:44] <LaserJock> Amaranth: do you have a bzr/svn repo for alacarte?
[03:45] <Amaranth> nope, just gnome cvs
[03:45] <LaserJock> k
[03:48] <Amaranth> ogra: http://dev.realistanew.com/releases/willowng/0.2/deb-src
[03:48] <Amaranth> if it doesn't work i'll scream
[10:53] <pygi> morning
[11:04] <Amaranth> morning
[11:15] <eniac_petrov> lunch :-)
[11:20] <Amaranth> ogra: did you get the link to my source package?
[11:21] <ogra> yes, sorry, havent had time to look yet ... there is a gnome-screensaver update for dapper i have to check first ... yours is next on my list
[11:21] <Amaranth> alright
[11:22] <Amaranth> just making sure it didn't get lost in the 8 hour or so gap :)
[11:22] <ogra> nah
[11:22] <ogra> i keep my baclogs ;)
[11:22] <ogra> *backlogs
[11:23] <Amaranth> the only thing i can think of that might be a problem is that i chown willowng:willowng /usr/share/willowng in the postinst
[11:24] <ogra> that should be fine 
[11:24] <ogra> at least i dont know a policy that forbids it
[11:25] <Amaranth> alright
[11:25] <Amaranth> that was a PITA :P
[11:25] <juliux> hi ogra 
[11:25] <Amaranth> os.seteuid() != os.setuid() and sqlite writes to a temp file then moves to the db file on commit, took me days to figure those out
[11:26] <juliux> ogra, do you have an idea why my request for cds are not approved? i have e-mailed marilize and she said yes yes you get the cds but nothing happens
[11:26] <ogra> dunno, did you try to ask her in -devel ?
[11:27] <juliux> not yet
[11:36] <Chipzz> Hi, I was told I could ask questions related to ltsp here
[11:37] <Chipzz> I'm not exactly using ltsp, but a very similar setup (basically I have everything configured myself)
[11:38] <Chipzz> I have pxelinux set up correctly, nfs on the server is working fine
[11:38] <Chipzz> but when the client boots and starts executing the scripts in /etc/rcS.d/, stuff goes haywire
[11:39] <Chipzz> specifically, something in S10udev makes / go away
[11:39] <Chipzz> is there before udevplug, but after udevplug runs, it's just gone
[11:39] <Chipzz> errr
[11:39] <Chipzz> / is there before udevplug, but after udevplug runs, it's just gone
[11:41] <ogra> what do you do with that setup ?
[11:42] <Chipzz> basically starting X and running a pygtk program
[11:42] <ogra> you could probably just use the ltsp setup and modify it ... thats in many cases easier than fiddling with our oen stuff
[11:42] <ogra> on the netbooted client ? 
[11:42] <Chipzz> well I have most of the stuff set up correctly
[11:42] <Chipzz> yes the pygtk app runs locally on the netbooted client :)
[11:43] <ogra> thats exactly what we do in ltsp ...
[11:43] <ogra> we start an X server and run ldm (pygtk based login manager)
[11:43] <Chipzz> uhu, but ltsp-client depends on ldm | gdm | kdm , which is not what I want
[11:44] <ogra> ltsp has the functionallity builtin to create the right tmpfs directorys where you need rw access ...
[11:44] <ogra> or do you export your nfsroot rw ?
[11:44] <Chipzz> nope, I export it ro
[11:44] <ogra> if not there will be indeed probs with udev
[11:45] <ogra> since it will need write access at a certain level ... other apps as well ...
[11:45] <Chipzz> but the ltsp-client scripts run quite late in the rcS sequence?
[11:45] <ogra> i'D really go with a default ltsp setup and then modify the chroot
[11:45] <ogra> nope, the rc sequence is cleaned out by the chroot setup script ...
[11:46] <Chipzz> can you just tell me what's needed to get udev working, or where to look?
[11:46] <ogra> there are only a handfull rd scripts left
[11:46] <ogra> *rc
[11:46] <ogra> thats rather a question for keybuk ... i have no idea which directories need to be writable for udev ...
[11:46] <Chipzz> this thing is allmost setup, I think it's 99% done or sth :P
[11:47] <ogra> how did you create the chroot ? debootstrap ? 
[11:47] <Chipzz> nope, install on a disk with ubuntu-server install
[11:47] <ogra> you could have a look at ltsp-build-client in the ltsp source 
[11:47] <Chipzz> allready did that :)
[11:48] <ogra> thats our script that creates the chroot and makes the modifications to the dirs
[11:48] <Chipzz> I also did most of the things that script runs
[11:48] <Chipzz> I know :)
[11:48] <ogra> make sure to have the tmpfs ready ... 
[11:48] <ogra> we use udev umodified in ltsp ...
[11:48] <Chipzz> unmodified* ?
[11:48] <ogra> so it must be your base setup where it goes wrong
[11:49] <ogra> yep
[11:49] <ogra> the defaulr ubuntu udev ... no tweaks or scripts 
[11:49] <ogra> *default
[11:49] <Chipzz> yeah
[11:49] <Chipzz> I actually tested the ubuntu-server install on a local disk in the client first, and that worked fine ;)
[11:50] <Chipzz> one thing I do have is I have /tmp as a tmpfs in /etc/fstab
[11:50] <Chipzz> but that's not mounted yet at the time udev runs in rcS
[11:51] <ogra> initramfs should have it mounted ...
[11:51] <Chipzz> ?
[11:51] <ogra> did you do the tweaks to initramfs we do in ltsp-build-client ? 
[11:51] <Chipzz> hrrrrm, I should check that
[11:52] <Chipzz> I tweaked the initrams with the 1 options, ie BOOT=nfs and MODULES=netboot
[11:52] <ogra> there are some lines that modify initramfs.conf ... look for that 
[11:52] <Chipzz> s/1/2/
[11:52] <Chipzz> did that
[11:52] <ogra> yeah
[11:52] <Chipzz> also made the symlink /etc/mtab
[11:52] <ogra> and regenerated the initramfs ?
[11:52] <Chipzz> jup
[11:52] <ogra> and copied it to tftpboot ...
[11:52] <Chipzz> I had some trouble without those lines at first :)
[11:52] <Chipzz> yup, did all that
[11:53] <ogra> (also note that we aim to keep compatibility with debian, so some lines are valid for the in that scrip and some for us)
[11:53] <Chipzz> actually I have my whole chroot in /var/lib/tftpboot
[11:53] <ogra> and export that ? 
[11:53] <ogra> heh
[11:53] <Chipzz> yes
[11:53] <Chipzz> it's exported via nfs
[11:54] <ogra> what des the error say you see on the screen ? 
[11:54] <ogra> do you get dropped into a busybox shell ? 
[11:55] <Chipzz> something about not being able to find usplash-write
[11:55] <ogra> oh
[11:55] <Chipzz> but there's nothing on / at all
[11:55] <ogra> right, you did a server install :)
[11:55] <Chipzz> yeah but installed usplash on the client too ;)
[11:56] <ogra> so you are sure the nfs mount is definatelty working ? and you are not left in initramfs ? 
[11:56] <Chipzz> I'm sure of that :)
[11:57] <Chipzz> currently I have modified pxelinux to add init=/bin/bash, so I can debug the issue manually
[11:59] <ogra> i'd really go with ltsp and add an lts.conf that starts your pygtk script instead of ldm ...
[11:59] <Chipzz> I have sprinkled some 'ls /' in /etc/init.d/udev, and the last one to work is the one before udevplug
[12:00] <ogra> instead of reimplementing ltsp by hand :)
[12:02] <Chipzz> I suspect that somehow I would have the same problem with ltsp though ;)
[12:02] <ogra> its a matter of 20min work ...
[12:02] <ogra> why should you ?
[12:02] <Chipzz> just a feeling
[12:03] <Chipzz> so, anyway, I should ask keybuk?
[12:03] <Chipzz> thing is, the chroot for the client is allready set up, and it would take more work to duplicate that again in the ltsp chroot
[12:04] <Chipzz> but I'll check if the ltsp chroot boots later
[12:06] <ogra> well, setting up a ltsp chroot if you have a dapper cd around is done in less than 10 min
[12:06] <Chipzz> ogra: I already have a ltsp chroot set up ;)
[12:06] <Chipzz> beside the chroot I had earlier
[12:07] <ogra> creating a lts.conf is a matter of 1min ... and copying your pygtk script into the chroot os taking as long as the cp :)
[12:07] <ogra> s/os/is/
[12:07] <ogra> so you should be dont in 20min max ...
[12:07] <ogra> *done
[12:10] <Chipzz> uhu, anyway, I currently do not have access to the client anyway (it's in a friends room who'se still asleep, so not much chance of doing anything about it now anyway)
[12:14] <Chipzz> I guess my main gripe with ltsp-client is the Depends on 'ldm | sdm-terminal | x-display-manager'
[12:14] <Chipzz> which pulls in a lot of stuff I don't need
[12:15] <ogra> yes, it will install ldm (some kb) but you can avoid that its been used
[12:15] <ogra> s/been/being/
[12:16] <ogra> and you need pygtk anyway ... all ldm pulls in alongside is the clearlooks engine and its deps ... its not really much
[12:16] <ogra> and diskspace is cheap ... especially on diskless netbooting machines ;)
[12:17] <Chipzz> *g*
[12:18] <Chipzz> it's mostly a matter of principles
[12:18] <Chipzz> I had the other install trimmed down a lot too
[12:18] <Chipzz> removing unneeded packages etc
[12:18] <ogra> you could just install sdm ;)
[12:18] <ogra> it has no big dependencys
[12:19] <Chipzz> yeah that would most likely be the best choice ;)
[12:19] <ogra> Depends: openssh-client | ssh-client | ssh, dash, xserver-xorg
[12:19] <ogra> three deps only ...
[12:19] <ogra> one is already there anyway
[12:19] <ogra> err two
[12:19] <Chipzz> yup I saw that :)
[12:45] <cbx33> ping highvoltage 
[12:46] <cbx33> hi guys
[12:46] <cbx33> how can I prevent my ubuntu from trying to access apt etc when I'm using a dial up connection?
[12:46] <cbx33> basically I don't want it to access the net work unless I ask it to
[12:47] <cbx33> it just wasted 80K of my 500K allowance for this month :(
[12:50] <highvoltage> cbx33: pong, and i feel your pain, btw
[12:51] <cbx33> grr....
[12:51] <highvoltage> i usually have about 10MB per month. 500k is hectic
[12:51] <cbx33> i thought you'd have some clever way round it
[12:51] <highvoltage> (although, i have more these days now that it's cheaper)
[12:51] <cbx33> If I update apt, it shouldn't try again should it?
[12:51] <cbx33> highvoltage: any luck on finding a SIM?
[12:51] <highvoltage> on the boxes i dial up on, i have my updates completely disabled in /etc/apt/sources.list
[12:51] <highvoltage> cbx33: yes
[12:52] <cbx33> highvoltage: that'll do it?
[12:52] <highvoltage> yep
[12:52] <highvoltage> update-manager can't update if it doesn't have somewhere to update from :)
[12:52] <cbx33> so you just comment out everything?
[12:52] <highvoltage> i have one line in with my own repository, in which i store updates downloaded from another machine
[12:53] <cbx33> we need a GPRS mode for ubuntu
[12:53] <highvoltage> but yes, you can comment out everything, then do an apt-get update
[12:53] <highvoltage> it was pointed out at the summit too
[12:53] <highvoltage> although it's quite an unsexy problem, so there doesn't seem to be many people interested in fixing it
[12:53] <highvoltage> brb
[12:53] <cbx33> heheh
[12:56] <cbx33> bbl
[01:15] <pygi> hey RichEd 
[01:16] <RichEd> just got time for a hi pygi ... working hard today at head office :)
[01:33] <jsgotangco> good evening
[01:33] <cbx33> sorry highvoltage had to go home
[01:33] <cbx33> hey jsgotangco 
[01:33] <cbx33> howz it going
[01:33] <jsgotangco> hey cbx33
[01:33] <jsgotangco> pretty good
[01:33] <cbx33> :D
[01:33] <jsgotangco> i had some sushi =)
[01:33] <pygi> cbx33, how's music= ;)
[01:34] <jsgotangco> cbx33: you're missing a lot
[01:34] <cbx33> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds
[01:34] <cbx33> pygi, there are three more ideas
[01:34] <jsgotangco> cbx33: but then i dunno how authentic sushi can be in that area
[01:34] <cbx33> some ideas came up on the mailing list
[01:34] <cbx33> so I guess I should try those out too
[01:34] <cbx33> jsgotangco, hehe
[01:37] <Chipzz> cbx33: System -> Administration -> Software Sources
[01:37] <Chipzz> you can disable automagically downloading new packages etc there
[01:38] <pygi> Chipzz, he cant disable downloading security updates there tho =P
[01:38] <pygi> well, he can, but he has to remove one package
[01:38] <pygi> (me forgot how is it called)
[01:38] <Chipzz> pygi: he can't?
[01:38] <Chipzz> that's stupid
[01:38] <pygi> Chipzz, I think he can't :)
[01:38] <Chipzz> I'm sure he can
[01:39] <Chipzz> thing is, I can't currently check, since I'm on edgy, and the GUI for that just changed the other day
[02:08] <cbx33> ping highvoltage 
[02:09] <highvoltage> pong cbx33 
[02:09] <cbx33> pm
[02:10] <highvoltage> k
[02:18] <jsgotangco> do we have a meeting?
[02:20] <cbx33> it's 8UTC today isn't it?
[02:20] <jsgotangco> yes
[02:57] <Chipzz> pygi: it seems you can disable it
[02:57] <Chipzz> pygi: security updates is a seperate option, but only for installing without asking
[04:07] <bddebian> Hello
[04:23] <cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu7-1.mp3
[04:23] <cbx33> hi RichEd 
[04:23] <cbx33> hi rodarvus 
[04:23] <rodarvus> hi cbx33 
[04:23] <cbx33> latest more "organic" " vivid" theme :p
[04:23] <cbx33> as per a request on the mailing list
[04:23] <rodarvus> cbx33, I'm asking Jane to join #edubuntu
[04:23] <cbx33> ok cool
[04:23] <rodarvus> conversation via msn is too confuse :)
[04:24] <cbx33> sorry rodarvus 
[04:24] <rodarvus> she asks me stuff and then pastes conversation between you two
[04:24] <cbx33> hehe
[04:24] <rodarvus> much better if we talk here
[04:24] <cbx33> sorry dude
[04:24] <rodarvus> cbx33, don't worry :)
[04:24] <cbx33> RichEd, how was the meeting?
[04:26] <lucasvo> anybody can tell me how I can finish pending merges in bzr?
[04:26] <cbx33> lucasvo, i think you commit
[04:27] <jsgotangco> hey rodarvus :)
[04:28] <rodarvus> hey jsgotangco :)
[04:28] <jsgotangco> rodarvus: como e voce?
[04:29] <rodarvus> cbx33, I'll help Jane configure her irc client during her lunch time (in 30 minutes)
[04:29] <rodarvus> jsgotangco, tudo bem, e voc?
[04:29] <cbx33> ok 
[04:29] <rodarvus> jsgotangco, you almost got it right - our "verb to be" is quite hard to get right
[04:29] <rodarvus> (and hard to explain too)
[04:29] <jsgotangco> yeah im struggling hah
[04:30] <rodarvus> but the right is "como est voc"
[04:30] <jsgotangco> im like trying to make some sense of the similar spanish words to no avail lol
[04:30] <rodarvus> jsgotangco, are you really studying portuguese?
[04:31] <jsgotangco> rodarvus: its an interest, for some reason i cannot explain
[04:31] <rodarvus> well, it resembles spanish a little
[04:31] <jsgotangco> rodarvus: hopefully its not because i grew up with my dad playing jazz samba all day when i was a kid
[04:31] <rodarvus> sou = soy,  = es, est = esta, estamos = estamos, etc
[04:32] <rodarvus> I have great interest in sino-based languages
[04:32] <rodarvus> but never got around to study them
[04:32] <cbx33> brb
[04:34] <jsgotangco> its probably because my native language has some spanish built-in so its a bit easier for me
[04:35] <rodarvus> really?
[04:35] <jsgotangco> sure, my middle name is Santos :)
[04:35] <rodarvus> haha
[04:35] <rodarvus> santos is portuguese!
[04:36] <jsgotangco> my mom has foreign blood
[04:36] <jsgotangco> but it is so diluted already lol
[04:36] <ogra> j*s*gotangco :)
[04:37] <jsgotangco> my surname is actually my grandfather's real name
[04:37] <rodarvus> oh
[04:37] <rodarvus> nice
[05:13] <highvoltage> Burgwork
[05:36] <cbx33> I'm back !!! :D
[06:18] <Amaranth> ogra: get a chance to look at the package?
[06:19] <ogra> Amaranth, not yet, but i romise i'll have it done before the meeting
[06:19] <ogra> *promise
[06:19] <Amaranth> alright
[06:19] <Amaranth> that's in 4 hours, right?
[06:20] <ogra> 20:00 UTC
[06:21] <Amaranth> 3 1/2 hours, close enough :)
[06:30] <Petaris> In December 2004 Iceland's population totalled 293.577 people of which around 180.000 lived in the capital, Reykjavik, and surrounding areas.
[06:30] <Petaris> The perfect place for someone who hates crowds
[06:30] <Petaris> :)
[06:32] <LaserJock> depends on how big it is
[06:32] <Petaris> big enough
[06:33] <Petaris> The land of the free keeps loosing its freedoms
[06:33] <Petaris> :/
[06:33] <LaserJock> Iceland's got to much volcanic activity for my taste
[06:33] <Petaris> geo-thermal power though
[06:33] <Petaris> good education system
[06:34] <Petaris> good health care
[06:34] <Petaris> no Bush
[06:34] <rodarvus> Iceland is one of the places I'd like to live on, someday
[06:34] <rodarvus> Iceland, Norway, Japan and China are my prime candidates
[06:34] <LaserJock> my chemistry prof in undergrad hiked across Iceland once
[06:35] <Petaris> Japan would be cool, but too crowded
[06:35] <Petaris> Norway would be an option though
[06:35] <Petaris> however with Iceland you can have dual citizenship
[06:36] <Petaris> You can become an Icelandic citizen but still maintain your US citizenship
[06:36] <Petaris> *just in case
[06:36] <LaserJock> I think I'll stick to the US, and maybe New Zealand
[06:36] <rodarvus> but actually, I don't think it is too easy for one to move to Iceland
[06:36] <LaserJock> I'm still trying to recover from my first/last international experience
[06:37] <rodarvus> (unless they have different policies, based on country you're from)
[06:37] <rodarvus> LaserJock, why "last"?
[06:37] <ogra> LaserJock, was it this shocking to meet us ? 
[06:38] <LaserJock> ogra: the people there were great
[06:38] <rodarvus> yeah, I was wondering that too :P
[06:38] <LaserJock> the French didn't treat me so well, though ;-)
[06:38] <ogra> i mean, i know i scared elmo with my shorts ... :)
[06:38] <LaserJock> hehe
[06:38] <ogra> but i didnt know about others :)
[06:39] <LaserJock> highvoltage and I just laughed
[06:39] <rodarvus> you scared me with your shorts >:-)
[06:39] <ogra> heh
[06:39] <rodarvus> just kidding ;)
[06:39] <highvoltage> LaserJock: how did you know?
[06:39] <ogra> i promise i'll wear longer ones in wiesbaden
[06:39] <LaserJock> nah, you should keep the trend
[06:40] <rodarvus> ogra, btw, how do you expect the weather to be in wiesdbaden in 20 days from now?
[06:40] <LaserJock> I just watched a show on TV about a CEO that has been known to walk around in such atire
[06:40] <rodarvus> (asking to plan clothes I'll take in my luggage)
[06:40] <highvoltage> geez, i'm about 40 km's from johannesburg atm, and it's the coldest recordest day in Johannesburg ever
[06:40] <highvoltage> it even snowed briefly
[06:41] <highvoltage> (although i didn't see any of it)
[06:41] <rodarvus> its quite cold in here too, about 7c
[06:41] <highvoltage> global warming my ass
[06:41] <highvoltage> :)
[06:42] <LaserJock> I think I just need to try it a few more times, I was just so thankful to get back to the US
[06:43] <LaserJock> but a few more dev summits, who knows...
[06:43] <highvoltage> heh
[06:43] <LaserJock> if I can go a few times without loosing my laptop or wallet and I'll feel better
[06:43] <highvoltage> i hope i'll make another dev summit
[06:43] <Amaranth> highvoltage: we had more 100F days in july here than every before
[06:44] <Amaranth> 100F is like 40C, i think
[06:44] <highvoltage> i have to contribute some more first
[06:44] <highvoltage> it's been real hectic work-wise
[06:44] <highvoltage> Amaranth: wow
[06:44] <highvoltage> Amaranth: we have a law here, that if it ever gets 40C, kids don't have to go to school that day
[06:44] <LaserJock> Amaranth: where are you?
[06:44] <highvoltage> i heard about that law the first day of school
[06:45] <highvoltage> and i've watched the temprature every day during summer
[06:45] <Amaranth> LaserJock: Iowa
[06:45] <highvoltage> and the warmest it got was 38C once :(
[06:45] <Amaranth> That's like the middle of the US
[06:45] <LaserJock> Amaranth: ah yeah, we just got ride of the heat over here in NV
[06:46] <Amaranth> yeah, it's only 79F right now
[06:46] <cbx33> Oh and check this out if you're interested in sounds - http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu7-X-fade.mp3
[06:46] <LaserJock> Amaranth: we had ~104 for over a week at least
[06:46] <Petaris> 72 F here
[06:46] <cbx33> hi LaserJock 
[06:46] <Amaranth> today the high is supposed to be about 20F lower than yesterday
[06:46] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:46] <Amaranth> LaserJock: we had 2 or 3 104F days in a row, a couple 90s before that, and then a couple 100s before that
[06:46] <Amaranth> nasty heat
[06:47] <LaserJock> yep
[06:47] <Amaranth> yesterday was the worst, it rained in the morning so it was really humid
[06:47] <Amaranth> like 80% relative humidity
[06:47] <LaserJock> we ended up with a lot of fires, it was so hot and dry that we had big thunderstorms but the rain never made it to the ground
[06:47] <LaserJock> only the lightning
[06:47] <highvoltage> geez
[06:48] <Amaranth> wow
[06:48] <Amaranth> lots of fires in western nebraska
[06:49] <cbx33> rodarvus, did ya get anywhere with IRC?
[06:49] <rodarvus> cbx33, yeah
[06:50] <cbx33> ahh....I did wonder :p
[06:50] <cbx33> Hi Janis 
[06:50] <rodarvus> Janis is Jane Vita, my wife (and also an accomplished designer)
[06:50] <LaserJock> ah, sweet
[06:50] <LaserJock> hi Janis 
[06:50] <Amaranth> Janis: Welcome!
[06:50] <rodarvus> Janis' english skills are a bit rusty, so please bear with us :)
[06:51] <rodarvus> I'll try to help as much as possible
[06:51] <rodarvus> but I'd like to see Janis working with AliasVegas (and whoever else might be interested) in Edubuntu artwork
[06:51] <LaserJock> Janis: thanks for letting Rodrigo go to Paris, he was a lot of fun to hang out with :-)
[06:51] <cbx33> rodarvus, ah, they are already working together :p
[06:51] <Amaranth> that reminds me, i'm supposed to poke AliasVegas about some icons
[06:51] <cbx33> oooh Amaranth poke me
[06:52] <cbx33> I'll let her know
[06:52] <cbx33> she's making a sandwich right now :p
[06:52] <Amaranth> heh
[06:52] <Amaranth> cbx33: I need an icon for WillowNG's config tool
[06:52] <cbx33> ok cool
[06:52] <Amaranth> tangoish, if possible :)
[06:52] <cbx33> noted on her post its
[06:53] <Amaranth> cbx33: thanks
[06:59] <Janis> hi...
[07:00] <Janis> Laser Jock: rodarvus gave me no option
[07:00] <Janis> hehe
[07:01] <rodarvus> :)
[07:07] <ogra> rodarvus, it got a bit colder (~20C atm) but i suspect it will be warm again in 20 days 
[07:07] <rodarvus> oh, thats sad news :/
[07:08] <ogra> not as hot as it was the last days though ... (above 35C)
[07:08] <ogra> its quite unusual for germany that its that hot
[07:22] <ogra> Hello Oliver,
[07:22] <ogra> Was reading your use cases regarding LTSP dhcpd configuration. I know a 
[07:22] <ogra> few people like Fred. Let me know if I can help.
[07:22] <ogra> Regards,
[07:22] <ogra> LOL
[07:22] <ogra> thats nice :)
[07:26] <ogra> grmbl ... ltsp-build-client for edgy fails 
[07:26] <ogra> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main xserver-xorg-video-chips 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu1                                                                
[07:26] <ogra>   Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) [IP: 82.211.81.182 80] 
[07:26] <ogra> evil thing ...
[07:28] <LaserJock> oh heah, EC meeting today, right?
[07:29] <ogra> yup
[07:30] <LaserJock> do we have any member candidates?
[07:30] <cbx33> hmmm
[07:31] <ogra> not on the agenda it seems
[07:33] <Yagisan> ?
[07:33] <Yagisan> If I just turn up do I get membership ?
[07:34] <LaserJock> no, we have to have some fun first
[07:35] <Yagisan> oh ?
[07:35] <Yagisan> um, I turn up, I'm "helpful". I shower daily. anything else ?
[07:36] <LaserJock> yeah, what's the point of being on the Council if you can't grill people
[07:36] <pygi> Yagisan, prepare wiki, apply on LP team, bla, bla
[07:38] <jitj> Would anyone be able to describe how to use Edubuntu with Novell for students to get to their file shares and possibly authentication?  I'm struggling with that part--setting up the clients has been relatively painless.
[07:41] <ogra> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main xserver-xorg-video-chips 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu1 
[07:41] <ogra>   Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) [IP: 82.211.81.151 80] 
[07:41] <ogra> rodarvus !!
[07:41] <ogra> whats up with that xserver ?
[07:41] <rodarvus> you ask me? :)
[07:41] <ogra> must be your fault :P
[07:41] <rodarvus> haha
[07:42] <ogra> grmbl, seems ltsp-build-client doesnt pick up the --dist parameter ... that should have been a dapper chroot
[07:43] <ogra> Yagisan, we need a wiki entry ... if the CC ever comes and asks on which base we approved you ad i just had a brain surgery i wont remember without it ...
[07:43] <ogra> not that i often have brain surgeries or something :)
[07:45] <Yagisan> np. I'll (when not half in dreamland) write a nice story for the wiki, that may or may not coincide with your reality, on why I'm an excellent candiate.
[07:46] <ogra> just list your contributions ... no need for stories ;)
[07:47] <Yagisan> ah, but there's a story behind each one ;) (usually a bug that bothered me, but still)
[08:27] <lucasvo> how comes that I am not subscribed to edubuntu-users list but still get the mails: 
[08:27] <lucasvo> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
[08:27] <lucasvo>     Post by non-member to a members-only list
[08:30] <cbx33> lucasvo, you havn't got some weird forwardng going on have you
[08:31] <lucasvo> no
[08:32] <lucasvo> I subscribed to -dev a long time ago before -users even existed
[08:32] <lucasvo> but somehow it didn't autosubscribe me to -users
[08:32] <lucasvo> even though I get the mails
[08:32] <lucasvo> anyway just manually subscribing fixed it
[08:34] <LaserJock> ogra: you ever heard of squeakland?
[08:37] <ogra> nope
[08:37] <LaserJock> it's supposed to be educational squeak
[08:37] <ogra_thin> meep meep
[08:37] <cbx33> ogra, if I wanted to talk about the new sounds I'm developing to the ubunut peeps
[08:37] <LaserJock> and they have source packages
[08:37] <ogra_thin> ah
[08:38] <cbx33> where is the best place to do that
[08:38] <cbx33> is there a meeting which is appropriate>
[08:38] <cbx33> ?
[08:38] <LaserJock> cbx33: the art list isn't sufficent?
[08:38] <cbx33> probably
[08:39] <cbx33> i dunno, I suppose......meh nevermind
[08:39] <cbx33> I'm just keen to get the level of feedback required to get them into ubuntu
[08:40] <LaserJock> heh, I don't think feedback really matters a whole lot
[08:40] <cbx33> oh well
[08:44] <cbx33> LaserJock, I'm just concious of how it will be judged if they are good enough 
[08:44] <LaserJock> ogra: http://www.squeakland.org/school/drive_a_car/html/Drivecar12.html
[08:44] <cbx33> feedback from community is the only thing I can think of
[08:45] <cbx33> apart from someone on high saying...they're crap m8
[08:45] <cbx33> does that make sense
[08:45] <LaserJock> sure
[08:45] <LaserJock> but if you ask for feedback to the community at large I don't think you will learn much
[08:45] <cbx33> I did learn a lot
[08:45] <cbx33> don;t ask cos you won;t get anything :p
[08:46] <LaserJock> some people won't like, some people will love it, and somebody will grab it and say it was there idea first ;-)
[08:46] <cbx33> heheh true
[08:46] <cbx33> I'm quite happy with the latest sound
[08:46] <LaserJock> anyway, I know what you mean though
[08:46] <LaserJock> what's the URL?
[08:47] <cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu7-X-fade-rev.mp3
[08:47] <cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds
[08:47] <cbx33> there is a ink to them all there
[08:47] <ogra_thin> LaserJock, looks cool, do you know which license they use ?
[08:48] <LaserJock> cbx33: sweet!!!
[08:48] <cbx33> LaserJock, hehe - I kinda like the opening your eyes and ears as you load ubuntu
[08:48] <cbx33> like moving to a higher level of quality
[08:49] <LaserJock> ogra_thin: I think it is just a squeak image that runs on the squeak vm
[08:49] <ogra_thin> to sad ... so it will also end up in multiverse 
[08:49] <cbx33> right
[08:49] <ogra_thin> i wish they would reconsider the licensing at apple
[08:50] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:50] <cbx33> I'm off to do the dishes before the meeting
[08:50] <LaserJock> it really looks cool
[08:51] <Amaranth> yay
[08:51] <Amaranth> my client beeps when you say willowng
[08:51] <ogra_thin> hehe
[08:51] <LaserJock> ogra_thin: hehe, the website says: "Squeak is Free, with a Liberal License:
[08:51] <ogra_thin> i still highlight on hwdb ....
[08:52] <ogra_thin> and some idiot tells people to test their sound by playing /usr/share/hwdb-client/ping.wav IN #UBUNTU ALL THE TIME
[08:52] <ogra_thin> eek
[08:53] <ogra_thin> sorry for the caps
[08:54] <ogra_thin> ah, damned, i cant reboot atm ...
[08:55] <ogra_thin> and restarting dbus isnt an option either currently
[08:55] <ogra_thin> Amaranth, the package seems fine to me, but i'll have to wait with the reboot/dbus restart until after the meeting :(
[08:56] <Amaranth> ogra_thin: pfft, just sudo /etc/dbus-1/event.d/99willowng start :)
[08:56] <Amaranth> don't need dbus to do all the work for you :)
[08:56] <ogra_thin> heh, true
[08:57] <ogra_thin> sorry i'm a bit distracted today with all the room setup here
[08:58] <ogra_thin> hmm, port 8563 ?
[08:59] <ogra_thin> ok, seems to work ;)
[09:00] <Amaranth> does the GUI work?
[09:00] <ogra_thin> Amaranth, kudos !
[09:00] <ogra_thin> works great (at least for domain filter which i just tried
[09:00] <ogra_thin> )
[09:00] <Amaranth> yay
[09:01] <ogra_thin> (even from this thin client !)
[09:01] <Amaranth> you know, i just realized something, i don't think i ever tested my changes to the bayesian filter
[09:01] <ogra_thin> while using the gui on the server 
[09:01] <ogra_thin> you still have plenty of time for that 
[09:01] <ogra_thin> the package is really awesome 
[09:01] <ogra_thin> well done !
[09:02] <Amaranth> haha, it doesn't work
[09:02] <Amaranth> NameError: global name 'urllib2' is not defined
[09:02] <Amaranth> ogra_thin: I don't know how to make it install the training.db but not overwrite it on upgrades.
[09:02] <ogra_thin> thats a bug ... can be fixed later ... lets upload that stuff :)
[09:03] <LaserJock> hehe
[09:06] <ogra_thin> uploaded
[09:11] <Amaranth> cool
[09:14] <cbx33> congrats Amaranth 
[09:53] <ogra_thin> ********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in 7 mins ************
[09:53] <lucasvo> ah, it's allready today?
[09:53] <lucasvo> cool
[09:53] <pygi> ogra, bleh, now you tell me :P
[09:53] <cbx33> ogra_thin, what happened to the fibbonaci sequence :p
[09:54] <ogra_thin> ********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in 6 mins ************
[09:54] <ogra_thin> (for cbx33 )
[09:54] <pygi> ogra_thin, wait 'till I eat :)
[09:54] <cbx33> heheh
[09:54] <cbx33> ogra, did you hear the new sound?
[09:55] <cbx33> it's more.....organic like you wanted :p
[09:55] <cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu7-X-fade-rev.mp3
[09:55] <ogra_thin> not yet (i havent sound enabled here atm)
[09:56] <cbx33> ah hoky
[09:56] <cbx33> do you mind if I add sound to the agenda?
[09:57] <pygi> cbx33, don't use that sound pls :P
[09:57] <lucasvo> cbx33: nice
[09:57] <lucasvo> cbx33: is it a startup sound?
[09:57] <pygi> altought I don't care, as I have sound disabled :P
[09:57] <ogra_thin> ********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in 3 mins ************
[09:57] <cbx33> lucasvo, yes
[09:58] <lucasvo> cbx33: in that case, I would make the fading at the beginning more slowly
[09:58] <highvoltage> ogra_thin: lost weight?
[09:58] <ogra_thin> highvoltage, yeah i have a client :P
[09:58] <cbx33> lucasvo, yes, it's not a finished product yet :p
[09:58] <highvoltage> *g*
[09:59] <ogra_thin> ********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in 1 min ************
[10:00] <ogra_thin> ********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in NOW !!! ************
[10:00] <pygi> ogra, my dinner :(
[10:01] <ogra_thin> pygi, eat on schedule *shrug* :)
[10:04] <lucasvo> pygi: why, he's thin, not fat... :) I would rather eat something else. 
[10:58] <cbx33> quick question, how much load does it take to run an app over SSH?
[10:58] <cbx33> like just the X front end?
[10:58] <cbx33> I'm new to this
[10:59] <cbx33> I have a mchine which does all the grunt work, but I want to use a laptop to run the GUI for a program
[10:59] <cbx33> but the program will be running on the grunt machine
[11:00] <cbx33> how would I do that
[11:00] <Amaranth> your local x server does all the display work
[11:00] <Amaranth> but the remote machine would do the rest of the processing
[11:00] <crimsun> ssh -X, generally.
[11:00] <cbx33> hmmm
[11:00] <cbx33> I'll tell you the application.....it's in my recording studio
[11:00] <cbx33> I hate turning round whilst playing my keyboard to see the screen.
[11:00] <cbx33> I can't move the pc
[11:01] <cbx33> so I wanted to rig a laptop to display the multitrack recording software screen
[11:01] <cbx33> but it must be VERY low resource usage
[11:02] <crimsun> I presume you're running the recording software on the laptop? Does the laptop run Linux?
[11:03] <cbx33> the the recording software is on the grunt machine
[11:03] <cbx33> power hungry
[11:03] <cbx33> all the laptop woudl be for is a remote terminal
[11:03] <cbx33> would VNC or RDC be ok?
[11:03] <cbx33> or too power hungry?
[11:04] <crimsun> from experience you want to avoid shoving a network connection onto the machine running the recording software
[11:05] <cbx33> ok
[11:05] <cbx33> any other method
[11:05] <cbx33> I can't move my screen or pc for the recording machine
[11:05] <crimsun> really long vga cable + another monitor.
[11:05] <cbx33> yeh swat I thought you'd say
[11:05] <cbx33> was hoping we had a cool linux work around
[11:05] <crimsun> seriously, with the network card spewing interrupts, your recording software will bear the grunt
[11:06] <cbx33> yeh
[11:06] <cbx33> true
[11:06] <cbx33> thanks crimsun 
[11:06] <crimsun> np
[11:06] <cbx33> you're stopped me from wasting an afternoon
[11:13] <Amaranth> LaserJock: Seriously, create a team for that.
[11:13] <LaserJock> on LP?
[11:14] <Amaranth> yeah
[11:16] <LaserJock> k, gallium germanium gold and gadolinium are the elements that start with "g"
[11:16] <highvoltage> gallium sounds nicest, imho
[11:16] <Amaranth> yeah
[11:16] <highvoltage> easy to spell and nice excutable
[11:25] <juliux> gn8 highvoltage 
[11:25] <Amaranth> pygi: $2.19!
[11:25] <pygi> Amaranth, #3
[11:25] <highvoltage> night juliux!
[11:25] <pygi> $3
[11:25] <Amaranth> $3.14
[11:25] <pygi> $3.15
[11:26] <Amaranth> you fail
[11:26] <ogra_thin> heh
[11:26] <pygi> wth? you fail :)
[11:26] <Amaranth> pi
[11:26] <juliux> i think we need a bot for that ;)
[11:26] <pygi> Amaranth, you are not very precise :P
[11:26] <pygi> 3.14 is a long distance from pi :P
[11:26] <Amaranth> pygi: You were supposed to extend the precision.
[11:27] <lucasvo> the xml data of kalzium is very easy indeed: 
[11:27] <lucasvo>   <element>
[11:27] <lucasvo>                 <number>1</number>
[11:27] <lucasvo>                 <name origin="Greek 'hydro' and 'gennao' for 'forms water'">Hydrogen</name>
[11:28] <Amaranth> lucasvo: all we need is a renderer :)
[11:28] <lucasvo> Amaranth: yes
[11:28] <cbx33> Amaranth, know how we can emulate the hovering bubbles of kalzium with python and gtk?
[11:29] <Amaranth> cbx33: I imagine that'll be a port of Qt Canvas to PyCairo
[11:29] <ogra_thin> Amaranth, you'll need functions ...
[11:29] <Amaranth> like rodarvus said
[11:29] <Amaranth> s/of/from/
[11:29] <lucasvo> https://launchpad.net/products/gallium
[11:29] <ogra_thin> i.e. kalzium has a cool feature with a time scale that shows the table based on when which element was discovered
[11:29] <ogra_thin> or based on melting point etc
[11:29] <lucasvo> Amaranth: did you do that?
[11:29] <Amaranth> ah
[11:30] <Amaranth> lucasvo: LaserJock
[11:30] <lucasvo> ah.
[11:30] <cbx33> Amaranth, is PyCairo easy to use?
[11:30] <Amaranth> ogra_thin: Shouldn't be too hard. :)
[11:30] <ogra_thin> right
[11:30] <Amaranth> cbx33: I wouldn't say yes. :)
[11:30] <cbx33> I'm sure we can knock soemthing up
[11:30] <ogra_thin> but there are a *lot* of such cool small features
[11:30] <Amaranth> ogra_thin: That'll be easy compared to the element model.
[11:30] <Amaranth> ogra_thin: It'll probably take 9 months to get most of it.
[11:31] <Amaranth> ogra_thin: I hope we can have something useful as a replacement default in time for edgy+1 though.
[11:31] <Amaranth> wait, that is like 9 months from now :P
[11:31] <cbx33> Amaranth, element model?
[11:31] <pygi> Amaranth, just get a lot of contributors
[11:31] <rodarvus> PyCairo is as easy as a Canvas library can be
[11:32] <Amaranth> cbx33: the fancy diagram of the element, weren't you just talking about it?
[11:32] <rodarvus> which is saying a lot about it
[11:32] <cbx33> ah
[11:32] <ogra_thin> Amaranth, well, first concentrate on the (un)paied work ;)
[11:32] <ogra_thin> Amaranth, btw, did they deliver finally ?
[11:32] <rodarvus> but the good news is that you won't have to "create" everything from scratch
[11:32] <Amaranth> ogra_thin: nope
[11:32] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/people/gallium-dev
[11:32] <rodarvus> you'll be able to base your work on the algorithms and ideas which already exist in Kalzium
[11:32] <Amaranth> ogra_thin: supposed to be fedexing a batch of checks directly from mountain view today
[11:33] <Amaranth> ogra_thin: dunno if mine will be in that batch
[11:33] <ogra_thin> Amaranth, please tell me tomorrow if anything arrived
[11:33] <Amaranth> i'm not home but i'll find a way to check
[11:33] <ogra_thin> you deliver good work ... that should be paied
[11:34] <ogra_thin> especially since they promised
[11:34] <ogra_thin> ...severeral times
[11:34] <rodarvus> ok, I need to leave for a while
[11:35] <rodarvus> family time
[11:35] <rodarvus> I'll be back in a bunch of hours
[11:35] <lucasvo> LaserJock: you here?
[11:35] <rodarvus> (after dinner)
[11:35] <LaserJock> lucasvo: yes
[11:35] <lucasvo> LaserJock: can you create a team with the devs and add me?
[11:35] <LaserJock> lucasvo: I did, I though
[11:35] <LaserJock> t
[11:35] <Amaranth> oh man, another programming language that has it's compiler written in itself
[11:35] <Amaranth> those are a pain to bootstrap
[11:36] <Amaranth> or maybe i'm misunderstanding this guy
[11:36] <lucasvo> LaserJock: yes you did, indeed.
[11:37] <lucasvo> How should we start?
[11:37] <Amaranth> lucasvo: specs
[11:37] <lucasvo> Should I spec the XML files?
[11:37] <Amaranth> lucasvo: we need an interpreter for the data (i'm pretty good with xml parsing), and a feature list for the first release
[11:37] <lucasvo> should we notify the Kalzium devs?
[11:37] <lucasvo> Amaranth: ok, in that case you can do it
[11:38] <Amaranth> lucasvo: You can write the specs. :)
[11:38] <lucasvo> :(
[11:38] <Amaranth> what are the main features of kalzium that we want in a release say, 2 months fron now?
[11:39] <cbx33> lucasvo, gisomount was my first packaging pygtk
[11:39] <cbx33> progbox.co.uk/gisomount
[11:39] <lucasvo> periodic table view, detailview
[11:40] <lucasvo> cbx33: yes I know it. :)
[11:40] <cbx33> Amaranth, hovering bubbles :p
[11:40] <Amaranth> haha
[11:40] <LaserJock> yeah, I think the 3 things are:
[11:40] <Amaranth> i'd say we want to have the periodic table and the info about the elements
[11:40] <LaserJock> 1)periodic view (with traditional layout)
[11:40] <LaserJock> 2) info view with all the nice chemical details
[11:40] <lucasvo> should I create a milestone?
[11:41] <Amaranth> kalzium is so slow...
[11:41] <LaserJock> 3) bubbly type thing (can we do a rollover?)
[11:41] <cbx33> LaserJock, we discussed, probably with pyCairo
[11:41] <LaserJock> 3) is nice but probably not neccesary for first release
[11:41] <Amaranth> the bubbly thing is not neccesary right away
[11:42] <Amaranth> we can probably just use a popup for it
[11:42] <LaserJock> basically, get take kalzium's data and make it not look like crap
[11:42] <cbx33> we could always have hover and it changes a box in the corner
[11:42] <cbx33> like an info box
[11:42] <cbx33> that'd work right?
[11:42] <LaserJock> yeah
[11:42] <LaserJock> you basically need 3 levels of info
[11:42] <lucasvo> cbx33: ++
[11:43] <LaserJock> 1) generally layout of the periodic table (what row, or period is something in)
[11:43] <cbx33> Amaranth, is the plan to build the UI in glade
[11:43] <cbx33> and put in all the leemtns
[11:43] <cbx33> elemtsn
[11:43] <LaserJock> 2) basic data like molecular weight
[11:43] <LaserJock> 3) all the gorey details
[11:43] <cbx33> or have a clever algorithm....that will create the periodic table for us?
[11:44] <Amaranth> cbx33: the UI will be built in glade but the table will be dynamic
[11:44] <Amaranth> btw, i own #gallium
[11:44] <cbx33> thought you'd say that :p
[11:44] <lucasvo> ->#gallium