[02:17] <jsgotangco> http://flurdy.com/docs/postfix/
[02:17] <jsgotangco> WHOA
[02:22] <LaserJock> interesting
[02:24] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: bzr branch http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/udr
[02:25] <jsgotangco> great
[02:26] <LaserJock> that's just what I got from Ian, but it's a start
[02:26] <jsgotangco> i almost read that as Iran
[02:26] <jsgotangco> lol
[02:27] <LaserJock> yep, I went a long ways to get
[02:27] <LaserJock> it
[02:27] <LaserJock> dodged some missiles ...
[02:27] <LaserJock> but darn it, I got the documentation ;-)
[02:28] <jsgotangco> yeah the covert mission was a success
[02:35] <LaserJock> so the immediate problem is that the current Debian version is 3.3.7 and we have changes to 3.3.6
[02:37] <jsgotangco> its still branching
[02:37] <jsgotangco> *groan*
[02:38] <LaserJock> really? bummer
[02:38] <LaserJock> it was quick on my local network ;-)
[02:43] <dsas> It's probably not a good idea to keep the pdf under revision control ;)
[02:45] <LaserJock> well, it's just there
[02:46] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: its in sgml i though you had dbk?
[02:46] <LaserJock> well, that's the current package
[02:46] <LaserJock> we can use debiandoc2xml to convert it if we want
[02:47] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure if we want to do that now
[02:47] <jsgotangco> ok are you suggesting we do it in debiandoc?
[02:48] <LaserJock> well, I just can't be sure that Debian is going to move to docbook by the time edgy is out
[02:49] <LaserJock> so we would have to do something radical (developers-reference-ubuntu package) I think if they don't
[02:49] <jsgotangco> honestly i have little knowledge of debiandoc ive read it before but never really got anything done
[02:50] <LaserJock> but if we stick to debiandoc for right now and they *do* switch to docbook then I think we can fairly easily convert it
[02:50] <LaserJock> well, I hadn't even heard of it until I got this
[02:57] <jsgotangco> can you give me a headstart on what to start, what to packages to get?
[02:58] <LaserJock> for debiandoc?
[02:58] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:01] <LaserJock> just look for debiandoc in synaptic
[03:02] <LaserJock> debiandoc-sgml and debiandoc2dbxml I think are the ones you want
[03:02] <LaserJock> I  guess po-debiandoc is used for the translations maybe
[03:03] <jsgotangco> if i use aptitude, it wants me to grab 110MB of archives
[03:03] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:04] <LaserJock> wha?
[03:04] <jsgotangco> crazy
[03:04] <crimsun> aptitude pulls in Recommends by default.
[03:04] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:05] <LaserJock> apt-get wants 7MB
[04:59] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: ping?
[07:21] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: pong
[07:22] <jsgotangco> hmm i forgot what to ask you
[07:22] <jsgotangco> ahh right
[07:23] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: are you able to build tinymail?
[07:23] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: haven't tried recently
[07:26] <jsgotangco> ok
[07:38] <Madpilot> Wow, I think Warren from the MEPIS project is a bit ticked off at the FSF - have a look at his 'GPL FAQ' here: http://www.mepis.org/node/10725
[08:50] <mdke> Laser_away: possibly... 
[12:21] <mdke> Laser_away: shit, the packaging in trunk isn't up to date with the branch
[01:16] <mdke> hi there manicka 
[01:17] <manicka> hi
[01:19] <mdke> manicka: have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/forum and see what you think
[01:19] <mdke> since writing it I just saw https://help.ubuntu.com/community/forum/community/KnowledgebaseTaskForce which is essentially the same thing
[01:26] <manicka> mdke, that's all pretty much what we've talked about before. It's a good idea to formalise it
[01:26] <manicka> I guess what needs to be done now
[01:26] <manicka> is the formal setting up of a team/taskforce
[01:27] <manicka> From what i can see the team would be negotiating with forum members directly
[01:27] <mdke> I'd like to talk through those things with the UDSF people, to make sure they are happy with it.
[01:28] <mdke> I thought of posting to the UDSF forum, is that appropriate?
[01:28] <manicka> i don't see much of a role for the udsf in that scenario
[01:28] <manicka> I'm sure they would be interested in a post there
[01:29] <mdke> ok
[01:29] <manicka> but i don't think they'll be falling over themselves to help on a taskforce  like that
[01:30] <mdke> given that the UDSF currently archives a lot of material from the forum, I think it's important that they are a part of this. The whole point was to provide an official channel through which documentation can come from the forum/UDSF -> wiki -> system documentation
[01:30] <manicka> ok
[01:31] <manicka> it might also be a good idea to ask for a sticky in the howto forum looking for taskforce/team members, once you have udsf feedback
[01:32] <mdke> yes, once the project is settled in terms of structure, we'll do something similar
[01:32] <manicka> ok
[01:39] <manicka> mdke, forgive my clouded judgement in regards to the udsf at the moment. The overall plan looks sound :)
[01:42] <mdke> manicka: cool
[02:35] <mdke> hey there lloydinho 
[02:36] <mdke> did you see we stuck up a docbook version of the participate website page in the repo for you and Laser_away to play with?
[02:46] <mdke> lloydinho_: did you see my message just above?
[02:47] <lloydinho_> no, sorry. Xchat crashed on me
[02:47] <lloydinho_> mdke: please repeat. :-)
[02:49] <mdke> did you see we stuck up a docbook version of the participate website page in the repo for you and Laser_away to play with?
[02:51] <lloydinho_> no. But I'll have a look at it, thanks!
[02:51] <mdke> great
[02:52] <lloydinho_> I've been away offline for a few days, so I'll just update my svn now.
[02:52] <mdke> it's at trunk/ubuntu/contribute/C/contribute.xml
[02:52] <lloydinho_> cool!
[03:10] <mdke> hi there troy_s, nice to see you in here. Thinking of getting involved with some documentation?
[03:12] <jjesse> mornin mdke
[03:13] <mdke> hiya
[03:14] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:14] <mdke> slacker
[03:15] <jsgotangco> heh!
[03:51] <jjesse_> why what all are your committing?
[03:52] <jsgotangco> man im such a slacker these days
[03:54] <mdke> jjesse_: the packaging for those changes to the ubuntu help system we've been discussing
[03:55] <jjesse_> ah cool
[03:56] <jjesse_> hmm how do i kick one of my nicknames that is still on there?
[03:56] <jsgotangco> do /msg nickserv ghost nick
[04:00] <nixternal>  /quote nickserv ghost jjesse <password>
[04:00] <nixternal> mornin' all!
[04:37] <LaserJock> mdke: did you take care of the packaging diff between branch and trunck?
[04:38] <mdke> LaserJock: yes, I hope so
[04:38] <mdke> LaserJock: btw, I made a new package for edgy, was I right to just continue the existing changelog?
[04:38] <mdke> maybe you can check it for me and I'll ask daniel to upload
[04:40] <LaserJock> k
[04:40] <LaserJock> yeah, the changelog should include *all* the releases
[04:40] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: what's the branch again?
[04:41] <mdke> in that case, we should be good to go
[04:41] <LaserJock> for what? developer's reference?
[04:41] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: top secret project
[04:41] <LaserJock> the Iranian project ;-)
[04:41] <LaserJock> http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/udr/
[04:42] <jsgotangco> thanks
[04:43] <jsgotangco> waiting waiting *hum*
[04:45] <jsgotangco> glatzor: !
[04:45] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: I'm wondering if I should redo the repo to  just have the .sgml and .ent files
[04:46] <jsgotangco> oh because we had the pdfs and html right?
[04:46] <LaserJock> and translations, etc.
[04:47] <jsgotangco> yeah might be a better idea
[04:47] <LaserJock> the repo would be a lot smaller
[04:48] <LaserJock> gah, this project just sucks organizationaly. I so wish we could just make a seperate doc.
[04:48] <LaserJock> as I look over the Debian version I see tons of changes
[04:49] <glatzor> hi jsgotangco!
[04:49] <mdke> LaserJock: are you going to make the packaging guide available from the contribute.xml doc? If so I think we should remove the packaging guide from the yelp frontpage and include the contribute doc, thoughts?
[04:52] <lloydinho> Hey, LaserJock. I've done a first draft of the Contribute doc.
[04:52] <lloydinho> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
[04:52] <LaserJock> mdke: yes, I agree
[04:53] <lloydinho> I just put it in the wiki since I don't have any svn commit access.
[04:53] <jsgotangco> man that was good sushi
[04:53] <mdke> LaserJock: cool. This is what the current front page looks like with ubuntu-docs 6.08.1: http://mdke.org/tmp/new-yelp.png, we can just drop the last entry
[04:53] <mdke> lloydinho: have you been working with the docbook version at all?
[04:54] <lloydinho> mdke: no, not yet. My secret plan was to try and convert it with the new wiki2docbook tool.
[04:55] <mdke> sounds good, that's what i did to the participate page to make contribute.xml
[04:55] <mdke> you've built on the participate page, right?
[04:55] <lloydinho> Cool.
[04:55] <lloydinho> In any case, I'd like to wait with docbook until we have decided on the general layout of the document.
[04:56] <mdke> ah fine, the contribute.xml is there as a placeholder, then
[04:57] <mdke> thanks a lot for working on this!
[04:57] <LaserJock> mdke: looks good for now, I think once we get contribute put together we should remove the Packaging Guide from the frontpage
[04:57] <mdke> great
[04:57] <LaserJock> it makes me sad to see it go, but that's were it belongs ;-)
[04:57] <lloydinho> mdke: It's been an itch I've been wanting to scratch for some time, now. :-)
[04:58] <LaserJock> mdke: you might want to wrap those long changelog lines next time
[05:01] <mdke> LaserJock: still time to do that... what is good practice?
[05:01] <LaserJock> mdke: did you try a test build of ubuntu-docs?
[05:01] <mdke> yeah, it builds fine. That screenshot is with it installed
[05:01] <LaserJock> cool
[05:01] <mdke> (on dapper mind)
[05:02] <LaserJock> I usually just wrap to something like 80 columns
[05:02] <LaserJock> and indent
[05:02] <LaserJock> all the CLI jockey's will appreciate it ;-)
[05:03] <mdke> is it alright now?
[05:04] <LaserJock> yeah, much nicer
[05:05] <jsgotangco> time for me to frag some kids
[05:05] <jsgotangco> ciao
[05:06] <mdke> need to do a patch for yelp at some stage to get those documents in the right order... I need to get an edgy system going soon
[06:56] <glatzor> Hi mdke.
[06:56] <glatzor> Do have got time to discuss the bug #54774: add dapper-commercial to software-properties
[06:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54774 in update-manager "add dapper-commercial to software-properties" [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54774
[07:09] <jjesse_> if i make changes in trunk/kubuntu/releasenotes/C what is the easiest way to get the same changes in branches/dapper/kubuntu/releasenotes/C/  ??
[07:15] <trappist> maybe do an svn diff and patch the other file with it
[07:15] <jjesse_> whats the syntax for patching again?  patch -p0 file?
[07:16] <trappist> patch -p0 < file
[07:38] <LaserJock> mdke: it seems we need to get a licensing lawyer
[07:38] <LaserJock> mdke: you're no help ;-)
[07:39] <jjesse_> LaserJock: mind apply two patches?
[07:39] <LaserJock> no problemo, are they on the ML?
[07:39] <jjesse_> yes sir :)
[07:40] <LaserJock> doh, right below Matt's email
[07:43] <jjesse_> grin :)
[07:45] <jjesse_> thanks for applying that one :)
[07:50] <LaserJock> jjesse_: the second one is for the dapper branch, right?
[07:54] <LaserJock> jjesse_: done, and done
[08:35] <jjesse_> LaserJock: thanks :)
[08:51] <mdke> glatzor: I have a few moments
[08:52] <mdke> glatzor: from your first comment it seems that adding the repository to sources.list is the best way, right?
[08:52] <mdke> LaserJock: grrr
[08:52] <mdke> I am the law!
[08:55] <LaserJock> mdke: hehe
[08:57] <LaserJock> mdke: my understanding was that with the dual license a derivative license was and/or so you could do GFDL *or* CC-BY-SA *or* GFDL + CC-BY-SA
[08:57] <LaserJock> not that both licenses applied (which would be a problem since they are incompatible)
[08:58] <jjesse_> isn't the book licensed the same?  i wonder how they figured it out?
[08:59] <mdke> yeah, that's what our docs say anyway
[08:59] <mdke> I have a hard time understanding GFDL + CC-BY-SA, I suppose what it really means is that they are alternatives
[09:00] <mdke> but I don't see how that works either
[09:00] <LaserJock> "take you pick" :-)
[09:00] <mdke> say we were to copy something from wikipedia (GFDL) and put it in our docs, would we be violating their requirement that we keep the same conditions for copying?
[09:00] <mdke> I think we would, because a derivative of our work could be cc-by-sa only...
[09:01] <mdke> in which case, wtf is the point of having "dual" licenses in the first place?
[09:02] <LaserJock> basically no matter what we do, it sucks
[09:02] <mdke> well, we could just have one license
[09:02] <glatzor> mdke: if we just add it out commented to the sources.list it will appear disabled in the third party list
[09:03] <LaserJock> sure, but there will always be content that we can't use because of it
[09:03] <mdke> glatzor: the third party list in software-properties?
[09:03] <glatzor> if you additionally add a comment to the end of the line, this comment will be used as label
[09:03] <glatzor> mdke: right
[09:03] <mdke> glatzor: that sounds like a good solution
[09:04] <mdke> LaserJock: right, but right now it seems to me there is nothing we can copy, unless it is completely free
[09:06] <LaserJock> yep
[09:07] <mdke> maybe mako can explain what the thinking was behind this dual business
[09:07] <glatzor> mdke: this mechanism could be used for the other self hosted third party repos too. just include a file with the disabled apt line and a comment for each repo (e.g. omnit) in app-install-commercial and place it into /etc/apt.sources.d
[09:07] <LaserJock> mdke: it's better for derivatives of us
[09:08] <mdke> LaserJock: like we care ;)
[09:08] <mdke> glatzor: ok, so that bug should be reassigned to app-install-commercial?
[09:08] <mdke> we should get mdz or someone to provide the comment wording
[09:18] <mdke> work dammit
[09:20] <LaserJock> mdke: don't kick to hard, it might fall apart
[09:20] <mdke> it's a bit slow, keeps timing out
[09:24] <glatzor> mdke: i will reassign it and change the description
[09:25] <mdke> glatzor: thanks!
[09:34] <glatzor> the sidenote is for mvo only
[09:34] <glatzor> the sidenote in the bug description :)
[09:35] <mdke> glatzor: thanks, I'll check it out
[09:37] <glatzor> have a nice eveneing, mdke
[10:02] <manicka> mdke, some interesting responses from the UDSF
[10:02] <LaserJock> manicka: where?
[10:03] <manicka> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=227819
[10:05] <LaserJock> cool
[10:22] <manicka> my thoughts added