/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/08/05/#launchpad.txt

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mpt__bluefoxicy, "came up with a way to keep the massive workload of sifting through reports in check"?01:37
mpt__Tell me about that :-)01:37
bradbHamAssassin?01:38
bluefoxicympt__: pitti is doing some sort of automated problem reporting in Ubuntu, where it'll catch crashes and get a bunch of debugging data, then turn that into backtraces and crash conditions01:39
bluefoxicympt__:  problem:  Ubuntu puts out updated Firefox.  Update is fucked.  3.2 million reports (same bug) come in in the next hour because firefox crashes.01:39
bluefoxicympt__:  I figure you can't easily automate the process of finding duplicates, because more or less different types of bugs reveal themselves under different conditions and also you can only get "mostly" correct results under specific sets of assumptions01:40
kikobluefoxicy, it's interesting that we have /some/ ways of detecting duplicates01:41
bluefoxicympt__:  so what I came up with is, let people SEARCH the reports based on all the characteristics you can come up with on an automated report; and let them chose their heuristic parameters.  Quick and dirty01:41
kikobluefoxicy, for instance, if we have crash logs, we can try fingerprinting them.01:41
kikobluefoxicy, if we have bugwatches, we can detect if two bugs point to the same bug.01:41
bluefoxicympt__:  at the point that you have a crash reporter, you tell people to stop submitting crashes through the bug reporter and just send them through the automated report system. :)01:41
kikoagreed there.01:41
mpt__bluefoxicy, right, I assumed that we don't want to report a bug for every crash01:42
kikoand indeed part of the strategy for avoiding dupes is to push people to the support tracker01:42
kikoor some other, separate-from-the-bugtracker, triaging mechanism01:42
mpt__Nor do we want to report a support tracker request for every crash01:42
mpt__Launchpad is not the solution to this problem :-)01:42
bluefoxicykiko:  nods.  But you can't take every manually-reported "firefox crashed" bug and find that it's a SIGSEGV when the instruction pointer leaves some_function() and attempts to execute {unmapped,non-executable} memory01:42
kikocrashes are special because we actually know they are crashes01:42
kikomost bugs are unfortunately more subtle and thus require manual triage01:43
mpt__bluefoxicy, are you familiar with the Oops system?01:43
kikobut it's nice if the triage can happen outside of the bugtracker01:43
bluefoxicympt__:  program says "oops I died"?  :)01:43
kikobluefoxicy, sure, you can't, but the trick is to get users /not/ to file bugs in that situation.01:43
mpt__bluefoxicy, when Launchpad crashes it generates an "oops report"01:43
bluefoxicykiko:  nods.01:44
mpt__and matsubara aggregates these each week and reports bugs for each *kind* of crash01:44
bluefoxicympt__:  also "Also I took interest in pitti's automated crash reporter and came up with a way to keep the massive workload of sifting through reports in check" was the full context :)01:44
mpt__bluefoxicy, I've been designing the GUI for that crash reporter, so how the back end works is highly relevant :-)01:45
bluefoxicympt__:  I was talking about stuff in ubuntu at the time, not launchpad itself, sorry  :)  little off topic.01:45
bluefoxicympt__:  ah.    http://bluefox.kicks-ass.org/stuff/bluefox/slides/pseudo_heuristic_searching/img0.html then :)01:45
mpt__bluefoxicy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CrashReporting01:45
bluefoxicyand yes slide 5 is lacking data; it's also not very much important01:45
bluefoxicympt__:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReports  -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReportsTagging01:47
bluefoxicympt__:  also it would be nice if people brought to my attention that such things are around, re   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CrashReporting <-> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReportsNotification01:48
mpt__I could say exactly the same thing01:49
mpt__oh, I did find it01:49
mpt__Well, I found the former but not the latter01:49
bluefoxicymmm.01:50
mpt__I had no idea that you were interested in the subject, let alone what your nickname was.01:50
bluefoxicyah, yeah.  Actually my nickname is registered on launchpad01:51
bluefoxicyamusingly I'll talk to people about specs and they'll be like "yeah that guy is a nut" not realizing ... :>01:51
mpt__So for Edgy we can't do anything fancy, just make it easy for people to report a bug if they want to01:52
bluefoxicyhttp://bluefox.kicks-ass.org/stuff/bluefox/slides/pseudo_heuristic_searching/img12.html  <-- the notes are fugly but this is one interesting case, sometimes a SIGSEGV and a SIGILL are the same bug.01:52
mpt__and hopefully I'll get to discuss this with sfllaw and pitti (and maybe matsubara?) at the next UDS.01:53
mpt__or jamesh01:53
bluefoxicyyeah, edgy is way too close to do any fancy stuff01:53
bluefoxicyI was thinking about trying to sneak into the next developer's summit, except I have no way to get there01:53
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bluefoxicympt__: I'm also looking at documenting crashes that indicate possible security flaws01:57
bluefoxicyany crash that indicates either the instruction pointer moved in ways it shouldn't or that someone was writing somewhere they shouldn't be (i.e. unmapped memory) shows a way to mess with program flow, possibly hijack the program01:58
bluefoxicywhich makes things very fuzzy01:58
bluefoxicysince that's just about every crash (SIGILL and SIGSEGV)01:59
bluefoxicybut double-free() and stack smashes are explicitly detected; again, though, this is fuzzy since now we KNOW there's a hole but we also know that we stop it if someone attacks it so we don't care quite so much as we might.02:00
bluefoxicyBut that's my end goal :)02:00
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Sp4rKyhi02:47
Sp4rKyi'm ubuntu member since a few weeks but i haven't yet my @ubuntu.com email adress02:48
Sp4rKyis it normal ?02:48
kikoSp4rKy, nope, it's a bug. you can file a bug on elmo though02:53
Sp4rKyok02:54
Sp4rKyjust send it an email02:55
Sp4rKyshould i manually add my ?02:56
Sp4rKyoups02:57
kikowell02:57
kikoyou can mail new@bugs.launchpad.net yes02:58
Sp4rKyk02:58
Sp4rKyi've wrote a query to elmo 02:58
kikoright02:59
kikowell it's kinda late around there so you could try tomorrow morning02:59
kikoor monday02:59
Sp4rKyyes03:00
Sp4rKybut as he's only away , i 've wrote to him03:00
Sp4rKyand i just let my computer started03:00
Sp4rKythx03:00
kiko-zzzsure thing03:01
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=== Mr-Petah ha vuelto ( Ausente 11 hours 35 mins 14 secs )
=== Mr-Petah bye all!, i go to the meeting!
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sabdflhelp11:53
SteveAhi mark11:54
SteveAwhat's up?11:54
SteveAhi sabdfl 11:55
sabdflwhat's a zope Interaction?11:55
SteveAare you seeing a test failure in the karmacategory.txt doctest?11:55
sabdflnup11:55
SteveAI've had that fail in PQM a few times.  Looks like an ordering issue.11:55
sabdfllong pause, then a crash in webapp/launchbag.py11:56
sabdflfar, far, far from anything i'm touching11:56
sabdflline 6711:56
SteveAyou need to update your zope checkout11:56
SteveAstub mailed the list -- needed to pull a more recent upstream to get some sessions fixes11:56
SteveA  bzr pull sftp://devpad.canonical.com/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel-built/launchpad/sourcecode/zope11:57
SteveAor just bzr pull from your zope directory11:57
SteveAshould do it11:57
sabdflok, thanks11:58
sabdfli just recently rsync'd down from the rocketfuel-built dir, though11:58
SteveAseeing as you asked, the interaction is a thread-local that keeps track of the request in progress on the current thread and the principals associated with it11:58
sabdflah11:58
SteveAdid you rsync it from chinstrap?11:58
sabdflhmm... maybe11:58
sabdflno, sodium11:59
SteveAuse sodium (aliased as devpad.canonical.com, to avoid distruption in future changes of machine)11:59
SteveAhmm11:59
SteveAthat is strange11:59
SteveAstick the full traceback on https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/12:00
SteveAand I'll see if it makes any sense to me12:00
sabdfloh, sec12:01
sabdflthere's a crash just before that12:01
sabdflan IntegrityError tht *is* related to what i'm touching12:02
sabdflthen it pauses, and crashes on the redirect12:02
sabdflinteresting12:02
SteveAhmm.  maybe it hoses the database connection, and then doesn't do an abort properly in the publisher12:02
SteveAsomething like that12:03
SteveA  latest revision: Fri 2006-07-28 08:27:39 +010012:03
SteveAthat's the latest revision in my zope tree, fwiw12:03
SteveAalthough it sounds like you've found the problem12:03
SteveAI'm still interested to see the TB of the interaction error12:03
=== SteveA -> lunch
sabdfli have the same revision12:04
sabdflwill paste you the TB shortly12:05
sabdflhttp://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/fileWlooqp.html12:06
sabdflhttps://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/fileWIooqp.html12:07
sabdflsorry, the latter12:07
SteveAah, okay12:12
SteveAso, database connection was hosed.  we try to render an oops page in the same transaction12:12
SteveAbut the transaction won't accept any more statements/queries12:12
SteveAwe didn't yet load the Person who is logged in12:12
SteveAso we get an error when trying to display information about the user12:13
sabdflinteresting12:13
SteveAwhat we should do is start a totally fresh transaction for the error handling12:13
SteveAincluding clearing caches etc.12:13
sabdflit seems that SQLobject happily passed None to a field which had been told should be notNull12:13
SteveAthat way, the error page will always render12:13
SteveAnice.  a whole bunch of bugs.12:13
SteveAI'll file a bug about error handling and transactions, anyway.12:14
SteveAlunching.  back later.12:14
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KamionHas stub been around at all recently?12:27
KamionI need somebody to do the DELETE of a bogus distrorelease that kiko mailed the launchpad list last night about12:31
Kamionbecause its presence is crashing the publisher in a way I don't think can easily be worked around12:32
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Kamion(very urgent, unfortunately)12:38
elmo'cos it's a weekend and we can't expect our DBAs to be around, I'm going to cowboy this on production - I've tested it in a transaction and 'dapper.0' is referenceless, so it's a single delete which I can undo if it causes problems12:42
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sabdflyeeeeHAAA!01:25
sabdflgo elmo01:25
quailevening all01:32
plhardysadbfl: hello i am brand new and wanted to join ubuntu team and i wanted especially you to convince me to do so.02:00
plhardytoo bad he's already away02:01
dsasplhardy: The best way to "join" the ubuntu team is to just start contributing to things and helping out. See http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate02:09
dsas(incidentally, this is probably the wrong channel for discussing such things) 02:09
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lifelessdsas: rather than saying its the wrong channel, you might try saying '#ubuntu-motu is a channel with many people that would love to talk about that' or something02:20
lifelessdsas: just saying its the wrong channel is not all that helpful02:21
dsaslifeless: I thought of that, but it depends on how you want to get involved. The page I linked to links to team specific pages which tell you the right IRC channel.02:21
sabdflplhardy: welcome aboard :-)02:22
sabdflSteveA: is there good documentation for converting tests from the older format to the new one?02:23
kiko-zzzsabdfl, yeah, there's a wiki doc.02:38
kiko-zzzlemme find it02:39
kiko-zzzhttps://launchpad.canonical.com/PageTests?highlight=%28test%2902:40
sabdflthanks kiko02:53
kiko-zzzenjoy02:53
sabdflwhat's the standard way to test for a page that should require login?02:54
sabdfllet me know and i'll update the doc02:54
sabdfl (different to testing if your login actually has permission to see a particular page)02:54
kiko-zzzsabdfl, log in using anon_browser and verify the redirect to +login?02:58
sabdfli guess...02:59
kiko-zzzseems to me like the only way to actually test it02:59
sabdfldamn, this is a very nice system03:03
kiko-zzzsabdfl, it's super-nice actually03:05
kiko-zzzokay catch you later time to hit the mountains03:05
sabdflanybody know how to get a particular form with the testbrowser, when there is no name or id on the form?03:46
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Mezhey, what prequisites do you need to work on a team branch ?04:20
Mezand are branch pushes on the supermirror as they used to be?04:21
sabdflMez: no prereqs, and yes I believe everything is as it was04:22
Mezsabdfl: including the amount of time to wait between pushing and seeing it via HTTP ?04:22
Mez(and I mean - for a team branch - you have to be in the team to push to it i presume?)04:22
Mezoh, and hi btwe04:22
LarstiQyes, I do believe the time before it is mirrored should decrease04:24
LarstiQbut it works fine ime04:24
Mezthe old supermirror time to mirror was a joke :P04:25
Mezanyone able to remove stuff from the bazaar? it seems a push failed and it wont let me push again 05:02
Mezlots of errors05:02
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Mezwho actually runs the supermirror05:27
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LarstiQMez: you should be able to use an sftp client to move stuff out of the way05:28
LarstiQMez: if that doesn't work, ask one of the launchpad admins05:28
Mezwhat stuff do I need to move out of the way05:29
LarstiQjust the branch dir should suffice05:29
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Mezhow do i get rid of it it's telling me it's failing05:33
LarstiQwhat is the exact command and error you are getting?05:35
Mezbzr: ERROR: File exists: '/~katapult-dev/katapult/0.3.x-dev': mkdir failed: unable to mkdir05:36
LarstiQthat should not be a problem if you remove the '0.3.x-dev' dir using a normal sftp client (as bundeled with openssh)05:37
LarstiQhowever, it looks like katapult might have set up some vcs-imports or the like05:37
LarstiQhttps://launchpad.net/people/katapult-dev/+branch/katapult/0.3.x-dev05:38
Mezhmm05:38
Mezhow do i do an rm -rf on sftp ?05:38
MezI dont have access to delete it05:39
LarstiQhmm, I can't find that either05:40
MezI dont have access to delete it just delete the files underneath it05:40
LarstiQMez: I don't see one of the lp devs that could do this for you around right now05:41
LarstiQstub would be the one to ask I think, untill it is possible to do so yourself05:42
LarstiQMez: perhaps a support ticket is the best option for now?05:43
Mezhmmles05:43
Mezit's ok I know why05:43
MezI just need a client that has an ability to remove lots of things05:43
Mezbah05:51
KamionMez: one moment05:52
KamionMez: hmm, ok, neither sftp nor psftp (putty-tools) seem to be able to do that05:53
KamionMez: try mounting it using Places -> Connect to Server and using nautilus?05:53
Kamionfailing that at least sftp and psftp both support globbing in the rm command, even if not recursion05:53
MezKamion - globbing worked... but still wont let me remove the dir :(05:55
Mezglobbing doesnt work for rmdir though05:55
Mezoh, and Kamion: I'm not a Gnome User + I'm at an internet cafe and they wont let me use linux here05:56
Kamionpsftp does support rmdir globbing05:56
Kamionat least according to http://the.earth.li/~sgtatham/putty/0.58/htmldoc/Chapter6.html#psftp05:56
Kamionyou should be able to get psftp for Windows05:56
Mezyeah - using psftp - sftp onlinux doesnt05:57
Mez(ssh -> sftp)05:57
Kamionapt-get install putty-tools <- psftp on Linux05:57
Mezbut meh - I still dont have permission05:57
MezKamion: not my server i was connectign to05:57
Kamionextract the binary from the .deb then :)05:57
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MezKamion: I'm lazy - If I wanted to I could login to a pbuildf, install it on that and use it from there :D05:58
Mezbut I'm lazy05:58
Mezanyways ... I got to go05:58
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plhardyi saw a specification https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/old-kernels-removal i think it should make clear that no user compiled is ever removed with that method.06:18
plhardyi don't now how to add this comment on the spec without any rights...06:18
Kamion(a) there's little point until it's fleshed out with a wiki page; subscribe to it and you'll be told if it gets anywhere beyond a braindump; (b) I think that spec might well be superseded by something like dependency-removal although I'd have to go hunting to be sure; (c) that's an Ubuntu specification, so is not really on-topic for #launchpad - this channel's for the infrastructure06:21
plhardyyou (a) point answerd was then on-topic ? 06:23
Kamion*shrug*06:24
plhardyi ever do many mistakes but normaly never twice the same :-)06:26
LarstiQhttps://launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneReleaseManagement does not seem publically viewable :(06:45
sabdflLarstiQ: what do you need to know there?07:18
sabdflhappy to tell you what that's about07:18
sabdflit's to make it easier for the distro team to track bugs that are important for them to fix before a release07:20
LarstiQsabdfl: currently, our workflow with bzr is to keep track of bugs in the 'current' version, and will close them if fixed there. This doesn't allow for bugs to be kept for different versions.07:20
sabdfland the same for upstream07:20
sabdflok, this is what you will want, then07:20
LarstiQpossibly series and milestones already do this, but I wanted to look at that spec07:20
sabdflyou create a series, then you can nominate and approve/decline bugs to be fixed in that series07:21
LarstiQand if malone didn't have it planned yet, it might be an idea to start one (perhaps based on the debian bts)07:21
sabdflstart one what?07:21
LarstiQspec07:21
sabdfli think this will do what you want07:21
sabdflit's pretty simple07:21
LarstiQsabdfl: so, will that enable bugs to stay open for 0.8, and be closed for 0.9?07:21
sabdflyes07:22
LarstiQgreat :)07:22
sabdflyou can track bugs in 0.8 and 0.9 separately07:22
sabdfland trunk, of course07:22
LarstiQsabdfl: having that concern adressed, is there any reason to not have all launchpad specs public?07:24
LarstiQor well, the wiki content07:24
LarstiQperhaps to motivate work on having the wiki be superseded by blueprint itself?07:24
sabdflLarstiQ: there is private code in some of the specs, and features that are confidential07:25
sabdflhow else are we to surprise our users at christmas?07:25
LarstiQhehe :)07:26
LarstiQfair enough07:26
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lucasvois it possible to select a i18n-po file for rosetta out of a mirrored bzr branch?10:48
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