| === ddaa [n=ddaa@nor75-18-82-241-238-155.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
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| === ddaa [n=ddaa@nor75-18-82-241-238-155.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| === SteveA [n=steve@82.109.136.116] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| === spiv [n=andrew@218-214-66-203.people.net.au] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| spiv | ddaa: meeting time? | 12:02 |
|---|---|---|
| ddaa | spiv: yes | 12:03 |
| mpool | here? | 12:03 |
| ddaa | SteveA: ping | 12:03 |
| spiv | BazaarMeetingAgenda says here. | 12:03 |
| ddaa | lifeless: ping | 12:03 |
| lifeless | gnip | 12:03 |
| SteveA | hi | 12:04 |
| ddaa | jamesh should arrive soon | 12:04 |
| === jamesh [n=james@82.109.136.116] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| ddaa | Meeting starts | 12:04 |
| ddaa | Agenda | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * roll call | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * production status | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * Smart server | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * SFTP advertising | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * vcs-import knits | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * supermirror branch browser | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * private branches | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * dyson | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * empty hosted branches | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * Python import | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * critical bugs | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * pending sysadmin tasks | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * any other business? | 12:04 |
| ddaa | ----- | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * Roll call | 12:05 |
| ddaa | I'm obviously here | 12:05 |
| mpool | here | 12:05 |
| ddaa | and all participants too, I see | 12:05 |
| ddaa | * Production status | 12:05 |
| ddaa | Nothing new. | 12:05 |
| ddaa | https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/53825 | 12:05 |
| ddaa | Still spamming launchpad-error-reports. No short term fix expected. | 12:05 |
| ddaa | What was the output of the launchpad-infra meeting about oops-from-scripts? | 12:05 |
| lifeless | jamesh: ? | 12:05 |
| jamesh | lifeless: yeah? | 12:05 |
| lifeless | ^^ do you know :) | 12:05 |
| jamesh | ddaa: we haven't discussed it yet | 12:06 |
| ddaa | Okay, happy to leave it that way, eventually kiko will grow tired of the spam, but we are not there yet. | 12:06 |
| jamesh | I'll be discussing some oops stuff with matsubara today, but I don't know if we'll get to oops-from-scripts | 12:06 |
| ddaa | * Smart server | 12:07 |
| ddaa | mpool, spiv: report? | 12:07 |
| mpool | no substantial progress this week | 12:07 |
| ddaa | did not ask last week | 12:07 |
| mpool | spiv, we should meet this week to pair on it, then i'd like you to do more, if possible | 12:08 |
| spiv | mpool: tomorrow? | 12:08 |
| lifeless | works for me | 12:08 |
| mpool | ddaa: the status is that it's still trying to get all branch/repo tests to pass | 12:08 |
| mpool | tomorrow is ok with me | 12:08 |
| ddaa | Okay, I'll ask again next week. | 12:08 |
| ddaa | * SFTP advertising | 12:09 |
| ddaa | jamesh posted draft on launchpad@, I commented, and expect a second draft. | 12:09 |
| ddaa | I would like some feedback from the other guys (mpool, lifeless, spiv) if you have the time. Anybody wants to make a commitment? | 12:09 |
| jamesh | I'll post a second draft once I've addressed the problems ddaa mentioned | 12:09 |
| lifeless | no committment, sorry.I've followed the email discussion and it sounds like it will be good | 12:09 |
| ddaa | mpool: spiv: ? | 12:10 |
| spiv | I'm happy to read over the second draft. I didn't pay close attention to the first one as I was trying to get through the flood of mail that built up during my week of leave :) | 12:10 |
| ddaa | * vcs-imports knits | 12:11 |
| ddaa | Scream if you want that done this month, as I have enough things to keep me busy until leave (17th to 25th this month). | 12:11 |
| mpool | draft looked reasonable | 12:11 |
| mpool | ddaa: what are you working on til then? | 12:12 |
| lifeless | It would be nice to do it this month. Depending. | 12:12 |
| ddaa | mpool: I'll tell later, it's on the agenda :) | 12:12 |
| ddaa | Okay, talk again about it at the end of the meeting. | 12:12 |
| lifeless | I think weave branches are now into bad publicity area. | 12:12 |
| lifeless | right, later | 12:12 |
| ddaa | * Supermirror branch browser | 12:13 |
| ddaa | spiv: what's your delivery estimate? (you promised one a couple of weeks ago). | 12:13 |
| ddaa | spiv: you look a bit overloaded with bzr stuff... | 12:13 |
| spiv | ddaa: Yeah, I've been switching to focusing heavily on smart server for that moment, so I don't intend to work on the branch browser until that's done. | 12:14 |
| ddaa | Okay, if nobody disagrees, I'll drop the branch browser from the agenda until further notice. | 12:14 |
| ddaa | Apparently, nobody disagrees. | 12:15 |
| ddaa | * Private branches | 12:15 |
| ddaa | lifeless to reply to review comments. Unless somebody disagree, I'll drop that from the agenda. | 12:15 |
| lifeless | fine | 12:15 |
| ddaa | * Dyson | 12:15 |
| ddaa | Progress on that appears stalled. Unless somebody disagree, I'll drop that from the agenda. | 12:15 |
| lifeless | please keep it | 12:15 |
| lifeless | jamesh: that is currently with you AIUI | 12:16 |
| ddaa | Okay. Will keep nagging people about Dyson. | 12:16 |
| lifeless | jamesh: is that your understanding? | 12:16 |
| SteveA | The branch browser is important to me for dealing with bad "trivial" landings on launchpad development. | 12:16 |
| ddaa | mh? | 12:16 |
| SteveA | If spiv can't do it over the next 2 weeks, I'd like to get someone else to do it | 12:17 |
| jamesh | lifeless: I got the input from Mark and Scott about it | 12:17 |
| spiv | SteveA: The task of setting it up internally is considerably smaller than the larger task. | 12:17 |
| lifeless | SteveA: we can deploy a branch browser for launchpad separately | 12:17 |
| ddaa | SteveA: isn't that something requiring private branches first? | 12:17 |
| jamesh | lifeless: I'm not exactly sure how we want to proceed | 12:17 |
| lifeless | SteveA: thats trivial | 12:17 |
| spiv | ddaa: not involving launchpad at all. | 12:17 |
| lifeless | jamesh: ok, after this meeting, lets talk in #launchpad and get you unblocked. | 12:17 |
| jamesh | lifeless: I probably won't have time to work on it this week either way. | 12:18 |
| lifeless | SteveA: I'm completley happy for you to get someone else to do the lp browser instance. If you have someone who can do one for the supermirror too, that would be great. | 12:18 |
| SteveA | if it is trivial, can ew get it done this week? | 12:18 |
| ddaa | spiv: SteveA: okay but that meeting item was about the launchpad branch browser. Having a non-launchpad one for rocketfuel is an infra-team thing AIUI. | 12:18 |
| SteveA | ok | 12:19 |
| SteveA | ddaa: "Dyson" | 12:19 |
| SteveA | I forget what that is again | 12:19 |
| lifeless | SteveA: I will get a core instance up and running and email rt for admin foo, after that its up to you | 12:19 |
| lifeless | SteveA: upstream release tarball scanner | 12:19 |
| SteveA | I asked last meeting for more descriptive names for "Dyson" and "Roomba" | 12:19 |
| SteveA | and mpool seconded | 12:19 |
| ddaa | SteveA: creating product releases automatically off tarballs found on the internet. | 12:19 |
| spiv | ddaa: Well, having the internal one was a stepping stone to the larger one. | 12:20 |
| lifeless | yes, dyson was scotts invention. roomba as mine | 12:20 |
| ddaa | roomba -> soon-eradicated-importd-autotester | 12:20 |
| lifeless | spiv: overengineering IMO. one sec | 12:20 |
| SteveA | jamesh has offered to do the launchpad browser | 12:20 |
| SteveA | that issue is closed now, thanks | 12:20 |
| ddaa | dyson -> tarball-spider ? | 12:21 |
| SteveA | importd-autotester adn tarball-spider | 12:21 |
| SteveA | fine | 12:21 |
| ddaa | Moving on. | 12:21 |
| ddaa | * Empty hosted branches | 12:22 |
| ddaa | It occured to me that fixing https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+bug/30576 (bzr push to an extant non-branch directory fails horribly) | 12:22 |
| ddaa | was only half of the fix. The other half would be fixing | 12:22 |
| ddaa | https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/51130 (cannot use +admin on a branch I own) | 12:22 |
| ddaa | and https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/34540 (cannot delete a branch), | 12:22 |
| ddaa | I plan to fix 51130 before leave. | 12:22 |
| ddaa | That said, I'll drop this item from the agenda. | 12:22 |
| ddaa | * Python import | 12:22 |
| ddaa | bad news | 12:22 |
| ddaa | Keeps failing in mid-course with a pysvn._pysvn.ClientError on PROPFIND "Could not resolve hostname `svn.python.org': Host not found (http://svn.python.org)". | 12:23 |
| ddaa | It's not clear what's the cause of the problem, but I guess fixing it would involve: | 12:23 |
| ddaa | - either import from svn dump (in importd) | 12:23 |
| ddaa | - or replacing uses of pysvn by python-subversion in the critical sections (in cscvs), I expect that would give us better control on network usage. | 12:23 |
| ddaa | I would like to have this sort of change done _after_ removing Arch support from the corresponding component. | 12:23 |
| ddaa | In other words, we're not going to have it this month unless it's made a top priority. | 12:23 |
| mpool | i'd be a bit unhappy to have it deferred so long | 12:24 |
| ddaa | In still other words, our svn import stuff sucks badly. | 12:24 |
| mpool | i think you should consider it a key test case | 12:24 |
| ddaa | *sigh* test case fails, cscvs is not robust, old news | 12:24 |
| ddaa | Though, fixing that in importd could be done without having to deal with Arch | 12:25 |
| mpool | lifeless: what's your opinion? | 12:25 |
| lifeless | work on concrete user visible goals | 12:26 |
| lifeless | if there is interest in python in bzr-svn copy, then work on making it work | 12:26 |
| ddaa | since that would be part of the "set up source tree for cscvs" code, which is target-independent | 12:26 |
| lifeless | I think diagnosing the cause is important too | 12:27 |
| lifeless | python-subversion was a PITA to work with 18 months ago | 12:27 |
| lifeless | if it has improved, great. | 12:27 |
| mpool | ddaa: so it always failes with "host not found"? | 12:28 |
| mpool | how odd | 12:28 |
| ddaa | at random points in the conversion | 12:28 |
| mpool | ok, we should take this to mail... | 12:28 |
| ddaa | not at the start | 12:28 |
| ddaa | want me to write email about it? | 12:28 |
| ddaa | okay, will do | 12:29 |
| ddaa | * Critical bugs | 12:29 |
| ddaa | No concrete change. | 12:29 |
| ddaa | - Cannot set branch associated to a product series. https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/31308 | 12:29 |
| ddaa | lifeless to write spec | 12:29 |
| ddaa | - renaming project, product or series breaks vcs imports. https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/37897 | 12:29 |
| ddaa | Have design and done preimpl call. My current top priority. Still expecting lifeless to brain dump about uploading/downloading cscvs source trees on remote servers. | 12:29 |
| ddaa | - cannot use +admin on a branch I own. https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/51130 | 12:29 |
| ddaa | I plan to fix that before leave as part of ongoing plan to have fun improving user-visible stuff. | 12:29 |
| ddaa | mpool: that answers your earlier question about my current coding focus | 12:30 |
| ddaa | lifeless: please give me that braindump, I value your input on that design. | 12:30 |
| lifeless | ok | 12:30 |
| mpool | ddaa: ok | 12:30 |
| mpool | (can i retitle that? bug 51130) | 12:31 |
| ddaa | yeah, the title has gone wrong | 12:31 |
| mpool | done | 12:31 |
| ddaa | the expected fix is to delete +admin and move its contents to +edit | 12:31 |
| ddaa | unless I change my mind | 12:31 |
| lifeless | SteveA: browser is up and running | 12:32 |
| ddaa | * Pending sysadmin tasks | 12:32 |
| ddaa | * Any other business? | 12:32 |
| SteveA | lifeless: cool! URL please | 12:32 |
| lifeless | on sodium, http://localhost:8088/ | 12:32 |
| SteveA | so, RT needed to expose externally | 12:33 |
| lifeless | this is a minimal config, we can add multiple branches, etc in the future. | 12:33 |
| spiv | lifeless: can't you run it as a cgi out of your homedir? | 12:33 |
| lifeless | I'd like you to RT it | 12:33 |
| lifeless | spiv: use case - trivial - done. fancy-pants-high-performance can wait for the supermirror code alterations | 12:33 |
| mpool | just to check something from before - jamesh will be working on the branch viewer? | 12:33 |
| ddaa | * vcs-imports knits, should that be set as a top priority for that month? | 12:34 |
| spiv | lifeless: running as a cgi is hardly a performance booster ;) But ok. | 12:34 |
| jamesh | was going to work on the one for launchpad's branches (which lifeless seems to have up and running). Not sure about the supermirror one | 12:34 |
| lifeless | SteveA: I'd like you to RT it please, choose where you would like it to exposed etc. I've put it up immediately because that fulfils your requirements immediately. | 12:34 |
| SteveA | lifeless: sure. i'll do that. ta | 12:34 |
| lifeless | np | 12:34 |
| lifeless | we aim to please | 12:35 |
| lifeless | its running as the PQM user. at this point if sodium is rebooted it will go away. | 12:35 |
| lifeless | we can refactor the implementation later to be better as needed. | 12:35 |
| jamesh | lifeless: so that's just the main rocketfuel branch. I think we want other branches too (I suppose that can be done later) | 12:35 |
| ddaa | jamesh: looks like the one for rocketfuel was grabbed by lifeless :) | 12:35 |
| lifeless | well, I did mean it was trivial. | 12:36 |
| ddaa | Focus, please. | 12:36 |
| lifeless | SteveA: please file bugs on the launchpad-development-infrastructure product with things you want changed in the browser - branches to show etc. | 12:36 |
| === lifeless winds that up | ||
| ddaa | So, SteveA request was granted, take deployment details on after meeting. | 12:36 |
| lifeless | knits - IMO its a priority | 12:37 |
| ddaa | Is that more important than fixing 51130? | 12:37 |
| mpool | converting existing weave branches to knits? | 12:37 |
| mpool | why is it difficult? | 12:38 |
| lifeless | theres 500 to do | 12:38 |
| lifeless | each has to be done in two places | 12:38 |
| ddaa | some of them stupidly large | 12:38 |
| ddaa | do not want to do that manually | 12:38 |
| ddaa | so need to be implemented as transition automation in importd | 12:38 |
| ddaa | so, not difficult per see, just a significant coding task | 12:39 |
| ddaa | Waiting for opinion on whether I should drop one of my current tasks for that, or on somebody to provide extra workforce. | 12:40 |
| lifeless | I'd like to get it done and out of the way | 12:41 |
| lifeless | mpool: your thoughts? | 12:42 |
| mpool | well, i can't judge how much work it woul dbe | 12:42 |
| mpool | i mean, even if there are many of them surely it should be just a couple dozen lines of shell at most? | 12:43 |
| ddaa | mpool: we do not want shell | 12:43 |
| mpool | but i would not want someone actually using the weave branches - they will be awfully slow over http | 12:43 |
| ddaa | we want that in importd because it's a shared resource issue and format upgrade is a recurrent task | 12:43 |
| lifeless | mpool: unless you shut down the entire system while you do it you need to lock/unlock the branch being converted at the scheduler level | 12:43 |
| lifeless | mpool: you also need urls from launchpad | 12:44 |
| ddaa | and doing that sort of thing in shell is a LARGE pita because it needs to be distributed on many systems. | 12:44 |
| mpool | i'm not actually suggesting shell, just saying that what actually runs is conceptually small | 12:45 |
| mpool | so i wonder if there is any lazier way to do it? | 12:45 |
| ddaa | BTW, fixing 51130 would make it easy to temporarily shut down importd-autotest with importd-production so we get maximal horsepower for the conversion. | 12:45 |
| mpool | e.g. i'd rather shut down imports for 24-48 hours than have david spend a week writing this | 12:45 |
| ddaa | s/shut down/merge | 12:45 |
| ddaa | mpool: who do you think would spend 48 setting up, testing, and babysitting the upgrade hack? | 12:46 |
| lifeless | see I dont understand why its more than 2 lines of python | 12:46 |
| lifeless | but thats a different discussion. lets have that post meeting | 12:47 |
| lifeless | mpool: lets talk priorities now, not costs | 12:47 |
| ddaa | does the spec I wrote look like more than two lines of python? | 12:47 |
| lifeless | lets talk after the meeting | 12:47 |
| ddaa | Okay, so issue still open. | 12:47 |
| lifeless | the discussion right now should be priorities IMO | 12:47 |
| mpool | ok, so | 12:48 |
| ddaa | And meeting time is over. | 12:48 |
| lifeless | mpool: I think eliminating weaves is importnt | 12:48 |
| mpool | after the meeting, dda, robert, mbp to talk about ddaa's suffering | 12:48 |
| ddaa | ta, it's not whining, it's good use of programmer's time | 12:48 |
| ddaa | Meeting over | 12:49 |
| ddaa | I'm out for a small break. | 12:50 |
| mpool | back in 10 say? | 12:51 |
| ddaa | mpool: I'm back | 01:02 |
| mpool | back | 01:04 |
| ddaa | https://launchpad.canonical.com/VcsImportsKnitsUpgrade | 01:04 |
| ddaa | There appears to be a single import in STOPPED mode, and I'm not sure it should not be syncing instead | 01:06 |
| ddaa | so we can drop the provisions for STOPPED in that spec | 01:07 |
| mpool | what does that mean? | 01:07 |
| mpool | i mean, what does "stopped" mean? | 01:07 |
| ddaa | it means "was once in sync, is published, but is no longer updated" | 01:07 |
| ddaa | mainly so we do not get distracted by errors of things that we know will fail for reasons we cannot fix (like the repository went away) | 01:08 |
| ddaa | that comes from there https://launchpad.canonical.com/SourceSourceRefactoring | 01:09 |
| ddaa | look at the bottom of the page | 01:09 |
| ddaa | also look for ImportStatus in canonical/lp/dbschema.py | 01:10 |
| mpool | i see | 01:10 |
| mpool | and the public server pulls from the internal http server | 01:11 |
| ddaa | yes | 01:11 |
| mpool | but if the branch already exists on the public server, how will the upgrade propagate? | 01:11 |
| mpool | pull does not do an upgrade | 01:11 |
| mpool | iirc | 01:11 |
| ddaa | https://launchpad.canonical.com/VcsImportsKnitsUpgrade | 01:11 |
| lifeless | I will comment, but I have to finish a meeting first | 01:12 |
| mpool | oh i see, right | 01:12 |
| mpool | it's not doing a regular pull | 01:12 |
| ddaa | if an upgrade is needed, importd will 1. pull 2. upgrade locally 3. recursive delete remote branch 4. push before running cscvs | 01:12 |
| mpool | " | 01:12 |
| mpool | The branch-puller preserves changes in branch format, so format changes on the vcs-imports internal publication server will be propagated to http://bazaar.launchpad.net." | 01:12 |
| ddaa | mpool: that issue has been addressed already | 01:12 |
| mpool | right but how does the branch-puller do that? | 01:12 |
| ddaa | if the branch puller sees that the source and the target have different formats (in any way), it will delete the target and do a branch from scratch. | 01:13 |
| mpool | ok | 01:13 |
| mpool | so the branch will just disappear from b.lp.n until the upgrade is pulled across? | 01:14 |
| mpool | i guess that's ok | 01:14 |
| ddaa | yes | 01:14 |
| ddaa | maybe there's some special provision to reduce the window of loss of service, but it's not really important | 01:14 |
| spiv | After all, one of the nice things about distributed version control is that temporary outages aren't totally disruptive. | 01:15 |
| ddaa | so, it might very well be that the required changes to importd are small | 01:15 |
| ddaa | but I'm not fluent in bzrlib | 01:16 |
| ddaa | and there tends to be annoying integration issues in importd | 01:16 |
| ddaa | so it's not a low risk task | 01:16 |
| ddaa | I'd say medium risk | 01:16 |
| mpool | i don't think the interruption is a big deal, i just wondered | 01:16 |
| mpool | one other question: presumably all of this is backed up? | 01:17 |
| ddaa | There's also the fact that the conversion is expected to be a big deal processing wise | 01:17 |
| mpool | so if something goes wrong and it starts deleting branches... | 01:17 |
| mpool | ? | 01:17 |
| ddaa | mh... | 01:17 |
| ddaa | dunno, I expect it is backed up... but access to the repositories are quite restricted | 01:17 |
| ddaa | and it's a bit hard to go _that_ wrong | 01:18 |
| ddaa | so, big deal processing wisu | 01:18 |
| ddaa | definitely not something you want to run on a single system | 01:18 |
| mpool | i think it'd be sensible to check before starting | 01:18 |
| mpool | the spec looks reasonable to me | 01:18 |
| ddaa | I do end-to-end tests with the whole system on my workstation before deployinh disruptive code like that | 01:19 |
| ddaa | There's usually a minor tweak or two needed when deploying things, but there was never a major disaster. | 01:19 |
| mpool | cool | 01:20 |
| ddaa | So, you want multiple systems running the stuff | 01:20 |
| ddaa | that turns a small one-off hack into a relatively large mess | 01:20 |
| ddaa | and format conversion is not one-off | 01:21 |
| ddaa | it's going to happen again in the future | 01:21 |
| mpool | yeah, it makes sense | 01:21 |
| mpool | so, essentially we are trying to prioritise the upgrade spec against | 01:21 |
| mpool | - unjamming the python import | 01:21 |
| mpool | - cleanups of arch code | 01:21 |
| mpool | what else? | 01:22 |
| ddaa | - critical fixes I'm working on now | 01:22 |
| mpool | ok | 01:22 |
| ddaa | I particular, I think it makes sense to do the upgrade thing after fixing https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/37897 | 01:23 |
| mpool | so it looks like the upgrade mechanism is largely independent of other things - e.g. removing arch dependencies won't make it much easier, or vice versa? | 01:23 |
| ddaa | because that will allow use to handle the load by putting all four importd systems (including the ones currently running autotest) temporarily in importd-production | 01:23 |
| ddaa | I'm happy to proritise that before arch cleanups. | 01:24 |
| ddaa | since it can be put into the bzr-specific code that gets the target branch | 01:24 |
| ddaa | might not be the optimal way to organise the code, but that would avoid messing up the pattern of arch/bzr testing | 01:25 |
| mpool | ok | 01:26 |
| mpool | well, let's see what robert says | 01:26 |
| === ddaa realises that putting all importd in production will require some admin operation to set up ssh keys and db access, but that should not be a big deal | ||
| ddaa | lifeless can give support to the relevent requests | 01:27 |
| ddaa | And it's something I'll need eventually, since I want to remove the need for importd-autotest altoghether (we can now to that since we no longer have to deal with arch namespace issues) | 01:29 |
| lifeless | ok | 01:29 |
| lifeless | I'm back | 01:30 |
| lifeless | where are we up tp? | 01:30 |
| ddaa | need your input or prioritizing knits upgrade | 01:31 |
| lifeless | ok | 01:32 |
| lifeless | so I was going to ask | 01:32 |
| lifeless | isn't the upgrade as simple as invoking bzr upgrade via python *always* on every branch ? | 01:32 |
| lifeless | invoke it on both the local branch and the remote one, before pulling etc etc | 01:33 |
| ddaa | hu | 01:33 |
| ddaa | remote upgrade? | 01:33 |
| ddaa | it's on LAN, but still... | 01:33 |
| ddaa | if we put it down to that, it will be indeed just a couple of lines of code | 01:34 |
| ddaa | since we currently download the branch anew for every sync | 01:35 |
| ddaa | but really do not like the idea | 01:35 |
| ddaa | for example, how will "bzr upgrade" behave if the first upgrade is interrupted (process killed, loss of connection), and we try to run a second one? | 01:36 |
| ddaa | BTW, need to make a bug importd not breaking sftp locks | 01:37 |
| ddaa | it should be able to do that | 01:37 |
| lifeless | bzr upgrade takes a backup copy of data. It marks the branch as being in-upgrade | 01:38 |
| lifeless | so it will need manual recovery- but this is IMO better than the failure mode of the upgrade you proposed | 01:38 |
| lifeless | where it will have no data remotely, and no data locally (because it will be trying to pull anew) | 01:39 |
| ddaa | gn? | 01:39 |
| ddaa | remote data would only be deleted after a successful local upgrade | 01:39 |
| ddaa | oh right | 01:39 |
| lifeless | if we download the branch anew each time, my suggestion is just 'invoked bzr upgrade on the remote branch before pulling it' | 01:39 |
| === ddaa wrote that spec before reading about crash-only software | ||
| lifeless | which should be trivial to implement, and result in automatic upgrades as we change the defaults | 01:40 |
| ddaa | What does importd need to do to recover from an interrupted upgrade? | 01:40 |
| lifeless | well, there are two failure types | 01:41 |
| lifeless | a) bzr bugs | 01:41 |
| lifeless | b) network glitch | 01:41 |
| ddaa | c) kernel upgrade | 01:41 |
| lifeless | for b), its - rm -rf the .bzr dir, and move .bzr.backup to .bzr | 01:41 |
| lifeless | c) counts as b) | 01:41 |
| ddaa | anh other variants of c, like importd upgrade | 01:41 |
| ddaa | yeah | 01:41 |
| lifeless | for a), you need to diagnose it and work with the bzr devs to get the upgrade to work | 01:42 |
| ddaa | how can you automatically detect b? | 01:42 |
| lifeless | IMO you should treat them all as a), because theres no magic way to tell what caused the failure | 01:42 |
| ddaa | you realise that "needs manual diagnostic" for import pretty much means "will not be fixed" | 01:43 |
| lifeless | is jamesh's log analysis stuff rolled out for importd ? | 01:43 |
| ddaa | I ran it once | 01:43 |
| lifeless | if so, then this should be marked clearly in that report | 01:43 |
| ddaa | but not again, because there were just too many failures to deal with | 01:44 |
| lifeless | and as any bug in this stuff is of critical importance to bzr, I dont agree that needs manual diagnostic means 'will not be fixed' | 01:44 |
| ddaa | and there was no easy way to classify them | 01:44 |
| mpool | ok, well | 01:45 |
| mpool | i'd like to call it a night... | 01:45 |
| lifeless | jamesh: is there something that could be easily done to make flagging failed upgrades stand out hugely in your log analyser for importd ? | 01:45 |
| lifeless | mpool: what time for spiv and I tomorrow ? | 01:45 |
| mpool | presume you're coming here? | 01:46 |
| mpool | after 10? | 01:46 |
| lifeless | I presume that too | 01:46 |
| lifeless | k | 01:46 |
| lifeless | spiv: ^? | 01:46 |
| ddaa | lifeless: does bzrlib gives a specific exception when trying to upgrade a branch that failed upgrade already (and is thus marked upgrade-in-progress)? | 01:46 |
| lifeless | ddaa: yes | 01:46 |
| ddaa | okay, that should be easy to grep for | 01:47 |
| lifeless | ddaa: UnknownFormat | 01:47 |
| mpool | what effect does an ascii del have on a spiv? i hope it doesn't kill him :-) | 01:47 |
| lifeless | ddaa: or ~ that - check bzrlib/errors.py ;) | 01:47 |
| lifeless | ddaa: ok, does this sound like a workable plan then ? | 01:47 |
| ddaa | Sounds workable. | 01:48 |
| ddaa | Then _when_ ? | 01:48 |
| lifeless | ok, cool. | 01:48 |
| lifeless | yesterday :) | 01:48 |
| ddaa | ASAP, or when we can put all our cpus on it? | 01:48 |
| lifeless | IMO ASAP. upgrade will chew through over a couple of days | 01:48 |
| lifeless | no need for massive parallisation | 01:49 |
| lifeless | it wont block all imports indefinately, because each import will block just long enough to upgrade, then do a pull from CVS | 01:49 |
| ddaa | yeah | 01:49 |
| lifeless | ok, gnight then | 01:50 |
| ddaa | once we get in the tail of the exponential distribution, (the 5 biggest branches), the other imports should be allowed to sync again | 01:50 |
| ddaa | lifeless: BTW | 01:51 |
| ddaa | jamesh appears to busy to review my last importd-bzr-native | 01:51 |
| lifeless | ddaa: not the case | 01:51 |
| ddaa | okay | 01:51 |
| lifeless | ddaa: was discussed in the review meeting, see irc logs or lp-reviews | 01:52 |
| lifeless | gnight | 01:52 |
| ddaa | nigh | 01:52 |
| ddaa | night | 01:52 |
| === ddaa -> lunch | ||
| spiv | mpool, lifeless: soon after 10 sounds good to me. | 02:14 |
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