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| zul | BenC: hey how is it going | 03:48 |
|---|---|---|
| BenC | not bad | 03:57 |
| mjg59 | BenC: Hi - did you see my question about SMP on the -386 kernel? | 04:03 |
| infinity | mjg59: I beleive the problem is that we build some sketchy legacy ISA drivers into the 386 kernel (and only the 386 kernel) which refuse to compile and/or work on SMP-enabled kernels. | 04:07 |
| infinity | mjg59: This was proven true for the ltmodem driver in LRM as well, which is why it's only built for -386. | 04:07 |
| mjg59 | Oh lordy. | 04:07 |
| infinity | (It compiles against SPM headers fine, but won't run on SMP kernels, even on a UP machine with smpalternatives) | 04:08 |
| mjg59 | It's almost like it was some random binary obtained from Lucent via dubious means | 04:08 |
| infinity | Almost, yes. But there are drivers in the upstream kernel with similar issues, or so I've been told. | 04:08 |
| infinity | If that's no longer the case, and ltmodem is the only holdout, I'm happy to just drop it completely again. | 04:09 |
| mjg59 | Ok. The result seems to be that we're moving to the -686 kernel on the desktop CDs | 04:09 |
| infinity | Yes, we moved to -686 when edgy opened. | 04:09 |
| mjg59 | Which loses us a small amount of hardware support | 04:09 |
| infinity | Which makes sense, since you don't want to run the desktop CD or ubiquity on slow machines anyway. | 04:09 |
| mjg59 | I did some playing today | 04:09 |
| infinity | But keeping -386 as the d-i kernel for the alternate CD still makes sense. | 04:10 |
| mjg59 | We could easily run ubiquty on a 128MB machine | 04:10 |
| mjg59 | Well, assuming parted isn't /too/ pathological | 04:10 |
| mjg59 | Based on the hwdb data, about 0.5% of users are on 586 machines with 128MB or over | 04:14 |
| infinity | Of course, users already in hwdb are less likely to (re)install from scratch with the desktop CD than, say, someone with a new computer, or an enthusiast with fast hardware who nervously reinstalls every month. | 04:16 |
| mjg59 | Yeah | 04:17 |
| infinity | So, statstics of past hardware installed on aren't as useful as one might like. | 04:17 |
| mjg59 | In a way it'd be nice to be able to provide an SMP kernel that still ran on 586 machines and default to that | 04:18 |
| infinity | I'd love to get the desktop CD requirements down, but I also want to see it support SMP and such, so we have to draw a line somewhere. | 04:18 |
| mjg59 | But mdz's argument is that there's barely anyone that hits and they could use the alternate CD instead | 04:18 |
| mjg59 | Which is pretty understandable | 04:18 |
| infinity | Ben had discussed a unified -x86 kernel that would rewrite ops on the fly for the detected CPU. | 04:18 |
| infinity | Not sure where we went with that. | 04:18 |
| mjg59 | That would be very cool | 04:18 |
| infinity | We'd probably still need SMP and UP, because of the sketchy drivers previously-mentioned (unless they are, or will be, fixed), but we could scrap the distinction between -386,686,k7 | 04:20 |
| mjg59 | Running the desktop CD without Gnome drops memory usage by about 50MB. Running an Intel graphics system without 3D and in 16 bit drops memory usage by about another 50MB | 04:21 |
| infinity | Okay, that last data point is somewhat surprising. | 04:21 |
| infinity | I didn't realise X was that inefficient at higher colour depths. | 04:22 |
| ajmitch | it's probably more the lack of 3D | 04:22 |
| mjg59 | It's allocating system memory for video RAM | 04:22 |
| mjg59 | When you enable 3D, it needs texture memory plus approximately four times the amount used for the framebuffer | 04:23 |
| infinity | Oh, feh. Right. I don't have any systems without gobs of video RAM. | 04:23 |
| infinity | I'm spoiled. | 04:23 |
| ajmitch | some of us still have the cheap onboard graphics | 04:23 |
| mjg59 | The Intel stuff isn't especially cheap | 04:23 |
| mjg59 | But still | 04:23 |
| mjg59 | On some hardware, we can drop memory requirements for the install by 100MB | 04:24 |
| mjg59 | I think that's probably worth doing and providing as an option | 04:24 |
| infinity | Yeah, a lowmem boot option might be nice. Not quite as "lowmem" as d-i's similarly-named option, mind you. | 04:24 |
| ajmitch | just a light wm? | 04:25 |
| infinity | Don't really need a WM at all, if you're booting straight to X+ubiquity, though it's probably nice to be able to pop up an xterm to see why the world exploded, if it does. | 04:25 |
| mjg59 | No WM at all? | 04:25 |
| mjg59 | Ah, yes | 04:26 |
| mjg59 | I guess so | 04:26 |
| infinity | Though there's a certain appeal to using ubiquity as a kiosk-type application. | 04:26 |
| infinity | Which would avoid calling it a "lowmem" option and confusing people, and instead just be a "Boot directly to Installer" option. | 04:27 |
| infinity | Which, for the clever, would intuitively imply "no extra crap running, so probably less hard on my hardware", and would also indicate "this is what you want if you're doing a bunch of installs in a row and don't need the desktop". | 04:27 |
| mjg59 | And then have ubiquity check free memory and suggest it as an idea if resources are low | 04:28 |
| mjg59 | It would need an option to the X config to allow it to skip writing the 3D section | 04:29 |
| mjg59 | But that's about it | 04:29 |
| mjg59 | Pretty straightforward | 04:29 |
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| TheMuso | c | 12:42 |
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| kernel_panic | hi everybody | 03:35 |
| kernel_panic | anybody there? | 03:35 |
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| kernel_panic | I've got a problem with debian sarge and kernel 2.6.17.8 | 03:57 |
| thom | kernel_panic: unfortunately for you this is #ubuntu-kernel, and not #debian, which would be a more suitable place for help with debian sarge | 03:57 |
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| BenC | "but it works with Xen's 2.6.16 kernel" | 07:27 |
| BenC | zul: I hate you | 07:27 |
| jwest- | if there are bad blocks | 07:29 |
| jwest- | nothing can be done about it other than having to reinstall? | 07:29 |
| jwest- | del/create partition doesnt seem to help | 07:30 |
| BenC | there's something that can be done, but I'm not sure what it is | 07:45 |
| thom | gar, this mptscsi is turning into a monster | 07:45 |
| BenC | jwest-: try the badblocks program | 07:46 |
| mdz | mjg59: "express installation" | 07:53 |
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| Keybuk | BenC: damn, I wish people wouldn't hijack other people's bug reports | 08:00 |
| Keybuk | that "3 minute hang" one of yours has at least four people with four different problems | 08:00 |
| Keybuk | we should just have a single "something went wrong" bug that everyone can gripe in ... it'd make our BTS look so much cleaner | 08:00 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Nice name | 08:01 |
| BenC | hehe | 08:08 |
| BenC | Keybuk: Yeah, I have like 4 bugs for this "3 minute hang" problem | 08:08 |
| BenC | Keybuk: Problem I closed 2 of them because the reporters claimed it was fixed with the last dapper upload | 08:09 |
| Keybuk | a 3 minute hang is just udev's way of saying "uhhhhhhhh" | 08:09 |
| mdz | BenC: er, is there no bug contact set for linux-source-2.6.17? | 08:09 |
| Keybuk | it does alarm(180) in the child before embarking on any rule processing | 08:09 |
| Keybuk | so the fact it hangs for 3 minutes just means the child got deadlocked | 08:09 |
| Keybuk | it can be caused by just about anything | 08:09 |
| Keybuk | iftabbing two network cards to the same name | 08:10 |
| Keybuk | hdparm locking up | 08:10 |
| Keybuk | modprobe hanging | 08:10 |
| Keybuk | block device errors (if cdrom_id gets run for a duff cd) | 08:10 |
| Keybuk | if you get them, ask for /var/log/udev and toss it over to udev | 08:11 |
| Keybuk | I can always debug it | 08:11 |
| BenC | mdz: Should be | 08:19 |
| BenC | Keybuk: ok | 08:20 |
| mdz | BenC: I filed bug #55695 and it didn't get copied anywhere except ubuntu-bugs | 08:24 |
| mdz | BenC: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/ says "No people or teams are subscribed to bugmail for this package." | 08:24 |
| mdz | BenC: each time we move to a different source package name for the kernel, you need to carry that over | 08:24 |
| mdz | via the "bugmail settings" link on the +source page | 08:25 |
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| alex_joni | hello.. anyone around familiar with customizing a LiveCD for Dapper (mainly replacing the kernel) | 08:25 |
| mdz | BenC: no wonder you caught up with bug mail; you've probably been missing all of the new bugs ;-) | 08:26 |
| BenC | hehe | 08:49 |
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| alex_joni | BenC: happen to know who's doing the install/live CD for dapper or edgy? | 08:51 |
| BenC | not spefically, but #ubuntu-devel might be a good place to start | 08:51 |
| mdz | alex_joni: there are how-tos on the web | 09:03 |
| alex_joni | mdz: found some info in the wiki, but nothing about kernel changing | 09:06 |
| alex_joni | mdz: I did manage to change the one for Breezy, but for Dapper it's quite different | 09:06 |
| mdz | alex_joni: with the kernel, it's the same as with any other package, except that you copy the kernel and initrd out of the squashfs into the ISO filesystem | 09:07 |
| mdz | alex_joni: we would greatly appreciate it if you would update the wiki documentation :-) | 09:07 |
| alex_joni | mdz: for breezy I had to tinker with udebs.. this all gone now? | 09:08 |
| alex_joni | mdz: here's the info I wrote about breezy http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi/01147559232 | 09:09 |
| mdz | alex_joni: correct, no more messing with udebs | 09:13 |
| mdz | there's no more debian-installer on the CD, just an initrd which is generated by casper | 09:13 |
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| mdz | or rather, by the usual initramfs-tools process with casper's participation | 09:15 |
| alex_joni | mdz: thank you | 09:19 |
| BenC | infinity: ping | 09:28 |
| BenC | mdz: isn't 54035 a dupe of 55695 (or vice a versa)? | 10:31 |
| mdz | bug 54035, bug 55695 | 10:38 |
| mdz | no ubugtu in this channel? | 10:38 |
| BenC | guess he left us again | 10:39 |
| BenC | mdz: they both appear to be bug in idecs | 10:39 |
| mdz | BenC: yes, you're right; I forgot I'd filed it already | 10:40 |
| mdz | marked 54035 as a dupe since 55695 has a bit more info | 10:40 |
| mdz | I still had it on my todo list to file for some reason | 10:40 |
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| === BenC forewarns everyone of a pending edgy kernel upload tonight | ||
| crimsun | great, thanks :) | 11:14 |
| crimsun | BenC: would it be possible to apply the following Kconfig aoa patch for -4-, too? http://hg-mirror.alsa-project.org/alsa-kernel?cmd=changeset;node=f72c2a462f761c14c6f8db314afbf1abb4b0a189;style=raw | 11:23 |
| crimsun | (no git id to cherry-pick else I'd have recommended it) | 11:24 |
| BenC | crimsun: my sound/aoa/codecs/Kconfig doesn't even have the "select I2C_POWERMAC" line | 11:31 |
| BenC | err, the "select I2C" line | 11:31 |
| crimsun | it shouldn't have either I2C or I2C_POWERMAC prior to the commit | 11:32 |
| === crimsun checks ubuntu-2.6 | ||
| crimsun | unless I'm missing something utterly obvious, those are the two lines that need to be added, and that matches both current ubuntu-2.6 and alsa-current git | 11:36 |
| crimsun | (well, four lines) | 11:37 |
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| derekS | what gcc is 2.6.17-5-k7 compiled with? | 11:50 |
| crimsun | cat /proc/version | 11:50 |
| derekS | crimsun: ahh :) | 11:50 |
| derekS | so i guess thats not the problem with my vmware | 11:51 |
| derekS | thanks | 11:51 |
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