[12:43] <DaSkreech> Is edubuntu going to take out the KDE Applications?
[12:43] <pygi> DaSkreech, not right now if you mean the KDEedu
[12:43] <DaSkreech> ok
[12:44] <pygi> future is ahead of us, who knows what is brings :)
[12:44] <DaSkreech> not right means at some point?
[12:44] <pygi> *cough* libburn *cough* :)
[12:44] <pygi> if we get a decent replacement, perhaps ^_^
[12:44] <DaSkreech> So there is a list of what need to be replaced?
[12:46] <pygi> DaSkreech, current KDEedu apps? :)
[12:46] <Burgwork> DaSkreech, it needs not a one for one
[12:46] <pygi> hey plotter mhz :)
[12:46] <DaSkreech> So you can dump say Kstars with no replacement?
[12:46] <mhz> hi all
[12:46] <mhz> pygi: heheh
[12:47] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: if it would be the only one, probably
[12:47] <lucasvo> one couldn't drop Kalzium without replacement
[12:47] <DaSkreech> That was next on my list :)
[12:47] <pygi> lucasvo, that's why you are writing replacement, bleh :P
[12:47] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: it's being replaced...
[12:47] <DaSkreech> I haven't played with KPhysics yet so I don't know what it is like
[12:48] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: https://launchpad.net/products/gallium
[12:51] <DaSkreech> This is to be easier on the libs or the menu?
[12:53] <mhz> ogra: just in case it can be done... cibercafes near my area open only from 17:30 UTC :(
[12:53] <mhz> and most meetings are held lot earlier than that :(
[12:53] <mhz> can next edubuntu meeting be held after 17:30 UTC ?
[12:54] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: why do you want to replace kdeedu?
[12:56] <DaSkreech> I thought I just asked that question :)
[12:57] <DaSkreech> I was under the impression that edubunut was going to be weeding out KDEedu
[12:57] <DaSkreech> edubuntu
[12:57] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: yes, it is a goal...
[12:57] <DaSkreech> With what aim?
[12:57] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: but the problem is, it includes writing several applications.
[12:57] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: Gaim has aim
[12:58] <Burgwork> DaSkreech, there is a gtk version of kstars, but more primitive
[12:58] <Burgwork> DaSkreech, more space on the cd
[12:58] <Burgwork> no kde lang packs
[12:58] <DaSkreech> Ah. 
[12:58] <lucasvo> Burgwork: not only on the cd
[12:58] <DaSkreech> Edubuntu is hurting for space?
[12:58] <lucasvo> not having to load kde on the workstation is also a plus
[12:58] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: yes
[12:58] <Burgwork> very badly so
[12:58] <DaSkreech> Hmm wasn't aware of that
[12:59] <DaSkreech> And you have more apps that you are looking to include I'd guess
[12:59] <lucasvo> and langpacks
[01:00] <DaSkreech> for gnome
[01:01] <lucasvo> yes
[01:02] <DaSkreech> Whats the usage of space for the KDE packages?
[01:02] <lucasvo> between 20-100mb I think
[01:02] <lucasvo> I don't know exactly
[01:03] <lucasvo> plus kde libs which also take up space
[01:04] <DaSkreech> how big are the lang packs that you are including?
[01:05] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: I think the gnome langpacks are about 8mb
[01:05] <DaSkreech> :-) And no space for them huh? :)
[01:06] <lucasvo> the iso is about 597mb afaik
[01:07] <DaSkreech> That's over 50 MB of free space
[01:07] <DaSkreech> Over 100 for most distros
[01:07] <lucasvo> I mean, 691
[01:07] <DaSkreech> Ah. One digit off ;-)
[01:07] <lucasvo> yes
[01:08] <DaSkreech> Yeah that does get iffier
[01:48] <lucasvo> I guess this pilot was a little bit too horny: http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1994-19.html
[02:05] <trainpic> anyone here?
[02:06] <trainpic> anyone?
[02:07] <LaserJock> I'm here, I suppose
[02:07] <trainpic> OK I just have one question.
[02:08] <jsgotangco> :P
[02:08] <trainpic> Is there any hack for Edubuntu 6.06 to enable local media support?
[02:10] <LaserJock> not really that I know of
[02:10] <trainpic> OK. I've just been looking around. 
[02:11] <trainpic> btw this is my first time on IRC
[02:11] <crimsun> that's a spec for 6.10
[02:11] <LaserJock> have you asked #ltsp
[02:11] <LaserJock> yeah, it is being worked on for 6.10
[02:11] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure about 6.06
[02:12] <trainpic> ok. I know it works in the latest version of LTSP, but I have tried all the hacks on their website and none of them work. Thanks anyway
[04:45] <greg> hi
[04:46] <greg> hello all!
[04:46] <Burgundavia> hey greg
[04:47] <greg> I have elementary-age child and do some sunday school projects with kids.   May I ask, WHY EDUbuntu, vs. kubuntu or ubuntu? 
[04:50] <Burgundavia> becuase it is built for those people
[04:50] <Burgundavia> it includes all the apps you need, plus a nice theme
[04:50] <Burgundavia> for schools, it also includes LTSP
[04:53] <greg> LTSP= Long Term SuPport?
[04:53] <Burgundavia> no, Linux Terminal Server Project, thin clients
[04:54] <greg> ah. k. thx
[04:54] <greg> I'm fed up with SUSE and considering that I'm finally ready to join the cult of ubunutu :)
[04:55] <greg> Just trying to decide on a distro.
[04:55] <greg> ... flavor of ubuntu
[04:59] <Burgundavia> I would use Edubuntu
[04:59] <Burgundavia> it comes with all the same apps as Ubuntu, plus  the educational ones
[05:01] <greg> k.  fair enough. thx
[05:02] <Burgundavia> no worries
[05:02] <Burgundavia> hey rodarvus
[05:35] <rodarvus> hi Burgundavia 
[05:36] <ajmitch> rodarvus!
[05:36] <rodarvus> ajmitch: yes
[05:36] <rodarvus> hehe
[05:36] <ajmitch> hello :)
[05:37] <rodarvus> hello :)
[05:37] <ajmitch> except I went to sleep instead
[05:37] <lecaros> hi everybody!
[05:37] <rodarvus> about time I go to sleep, by the way
[05:37] <rodarvus> but lets talk before I go :)
[05:38] <ajmitch> ok
[05:39] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: meeting?
[05:40] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: hm?
[05:40] <Burgundavia> distro meeting?
[05:41] <ajmitch> that's in ~12 hours, I think
[05:41] <Cornellius> !meeting
[05:41] <ubotu> I know nothing about meeting - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu
[05:41] <Cornellius> bah
[05:46] <bimberi> now that's an idea
[05:46] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: right, I doubt I'll be awake when the distro meeting is on
[05:50] <bimberi> !meeting-#edubuntu is <reply> Edubuntu meetings are (usually) held every week on Wednesdays at 12UTC in #ubuntu-meeting. Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda . All welcome!
[05:50] <ubotu> I'll remember that
[05:52] <LaserJock> bimberi: except they alternate times ;-)
[05:54] <bimberi> LaserJock: gah :)
[05:55] <bimberi> LaserJock: what's the other time - i went by http://www.edubuntu.org/Community
[05:55] <bimberi> ?
[05:55] <LaserJock> 20:00 I think
[06:03] <bimberi> !meeting
[06:03] <ubotu> Edubuntu meetings are (usually) held every week on Wednesdays in #ubuntu-meeting. Times alternate between 12UTC and 20UTC. Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda . All welcome!
[06:10] <Cornellius> bimberi: :)
[06:11] <bimberi> Cornellius: hey, i aim to please ;)
[06:12] <Amaranth> dev team meeting is 11 hours away
[06:51] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: can you pm me a one line summary of where your soc project is?
[06:51] <Amaranth> hmm
[06:52] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: for the UWN
[06:52] <Burgundavia> you can go to two lines if you wish
[06:52] <Amaranth> Burgundavia: Not really. :p
[06:52] <Burgundavia> right, then tell me what you know
[06:53] <Amaranth> For a desktop it's nearly done, just needs some fine-tuning and polish.
[06:53] <Amaranth> I guess go with that
[09:34] <EmxBA> hi folks ;)
[11:14] <RichEd> ogra: ping
[11:27] <ogra> RichEd, pong
[11:28] <RichEd> hi ... i popped in last night to join the meeting which i thought was in the evening ... ZA was off on a National Holiday
[11:28] <ogra> dont worry, we all forgot about it ...
[11:28] <RichEd> i saw the conversation thread :)
[11:28] <ogra> we started it 40 mins late :)
[11:29] <ogra> and it wnet less than 30 mins
[11:29] <ogra> *went
[11:29] <RichEd> i'll check out the logs to catch up
[11:30] <RichEd> i'm going to send you a quick mail in the next 5 mins re Eric Harrison etc = needs 1 minute x 3 for a response for when you next have a smoke & cup of coffee please
[11:30] <RichEd> ta :)
[11:31] <ogra> i'll meet him in september btw
[11:31] <ogra> we'll meet at a ltsp hack session in michigan
[11:31] <ogra> (sept 14 to 19)
[11:32] <RichEd> that's the sort of stuff i'm asking about ... gotta link to the above ?
[11:32] <ogra> nope
[11:32] <RichEd> it may be a good plan to join you & him and do a 3 way ;)
[11:32] <ogra> its privately organized by sbalneav and jammcq from ltsp.org
[11:33] <ogra> redhat and probably debian guys will also be there 
[11:33] <ogra> s we can work on the new upstream code of ltsp
[11:33] <ogra> *so
[11:33] <RichEd> excellent ... ties up at least 4 ways then ... leave comments for the email ... will let you know when i have sent it
[11:33] <ogra> yup
[11:40] <RichEd> sent ogra ... tx.
[11:40] <RichEd> hi cbx33 
[11:40] <RichEd> owe you some responses soon :)
[11:40] <cbx33> hi RichEd 
[11:41] <RichEd> quickie cbx33 : if we aren't going to get a Canonical stand at BETT is there anyone else who might allow you to piggyback off their location ?
[11:42] <RichEd> silbs mentioned the .org areas that exist in many large conferences
[11:42] <cbx33> hmm
[11:42] <cbx33> there are no such things at BETT
[11:43] <cbx33> BETT are stingy
[11:43] <cbx33> I asked if there were discounts for opensource projects
[11:43] <RichEd> could you check with the organisers if there are any other FOSS stands ... there may be some general FOSS or left wing socialist type missionaries with stands who would be happy for support ?
[11:44] <cbx33> I will ask
[11:44] <RichEd> tx.
[11:44] <cbx33> there was the FSF there last year
[11:45] <cbx33> anyone anygood with screen casting?
[11:45] <cbx33> I have an mpeg and an mp3
[11:45] <cbx33> i need to combine together to form a video that will run on a windows system in windows media player
[11:47] <ogra> cbx33, why not take byzanz and create a big gif ? thats 100% platform independent
[11:48] <cbx33> this is an 800x600 screen cast
[11:48] <cbx33> with an mp3 audio track
[11:49] <ogra> byzanz does 800x600 without problem ... but the sound is indeed a prob 
[01:05] <ogra> RichEd, answer on its way ...
[01:05] <RichEd> thanks ogra
[01:06] <ogra> i ope i wasnt to noisy :)
[01:06] <ogra> *hope
[01:12] <RichEd> opening now ... will let you know
[01:12] <RichEd> :)
[01:15] <ogra> argh .. i made a big mistake in the cd handling code ... now i know why my thin client dies after 20min ... *sigh* dont open 65000 files in a row with only 128M main memory , thats evil :)
[01:16] <RichEd> thanks ogra ... good comments ... i'll send a short response with one more question / point of view in a little bit.
[02:05] <ogra> hey willvdl, welcome aboard :)
[02:15] <willvdl> Hi there, thanks.
[02:16] <rodarvus> hey willvdl!
[02:17] <RichEd> hi will ... greetings all the way from rondebosch
[02:17] <willvdl> Hi folks. Greetings all the way from Durbanville (this time)
[02:17] <RichEd> rodarvus & ogra & I had a chat around the email I forwarded to you yesterday ... all pretty much on the same page
[02:18] <willvdl> Yip, went through that. Thanks
[02:18] <RichEd> we're going to work on a schedule something like:
[02:18] <RichEd> 1) combined status update by end of Monday
[02:18] <RichEd> 2) tuesday to scan through
[02:19] <RichEd> 3) meet on IRC in #canonical-meeting on Wednesday
[02:19] <RichEd> this is for the core educational team = canonical employees
[02:19] <RichEd> there is a general edubuntu meeting each wed ... community et al
[02:19] <RichEd> we'll meet before that one
[02:20] <willvdl> Yeah, I just noticed that. Was yesterday so I noticed it a bit too late
[02:20] <RichEd> so i take it you've found the fridge events :)
[02:22] <willvdl> Yes. It's also mentioned in the title above which should have tipped me off first :|
[02:23] <RichEd> f.y.i. general edubuntu meeting each wed is in #ubuntu-meeting
[02:23] <RichEd> there are logs available at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/
[02:23] <cbx33> willvdl, there should also be minutes for each meeting
[02:23] <cbx33> but I've been a little busy to write them the last two weeks
[02:24] <cbx33> yesterdays meetin notes should be there by the end of the day
[02:24] <willvdl> great. I'm scanning through old logs so that I don't revisit anything unnecessarily
[02:25] <RichEd> and also general logs at: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
[02:28] <willvdl> The latter should make good bed-time reading
[02:29] <ogra> heh
[02:30] <RichEd> we got another lead from Africa yesterday via OEM & Support : Company has a government contract for 100 PCs for a youth project in Angola
[02:31] <RichEd> They're going to phone him today, and get an email addresa across to me.
[02:31] <RichEd> ogra: have we done anything in Portugese yet ?
[02:32] <cbx33> RichEd, did you get my second dodgy email :p?
[02:32] <ogra> RichEd, ubuntu/edubuntu supports 90 languages, so i'd assume yes :)
[02:32] <cbx33> I wish I could get my LEA to consider edubuntu
[02:33] <cbx33> they are so bloody minded
[02:33] <cbx33> totally pro MS
[02:33] <RichEd> cbx33: the one from Cameroon ?
[02:33] <ogra> RichEd, to test the pt_BR stuff rodarvus is a better bet though :)
[02:33] <cbx33> possibly :p
[02:34] <cbx33> ok grasynco has had some much needed attention
[02:34] <cbx33> it still won't do edubuntu yet
[02:34] <cbx33> because we have diffenrent isos
[02:34] <cbx33> that's a fix I'll release soon
[02:34] <cbx33> but it should do ubuntu/kubuntu
[02:34] <RichEd> ogar: pt_BR < does this mean portugese Brazilian ?
[02:35] <rodarvus> RichEd, ogra, willvdl: feel free to redirect any pt_BR enquiries to me
[02:35] <ogra> cbx33, heh, as opposed to the original script that only does edubuntu :)
[02:35] <rodarvus> RichEd, yes
[02:35] <ogra> RichEd, yep
[02:35] <rodarvus> brazilian portuguese
[02:35] <rodarvus> ugh
[02:35] <cbx33> ogra, yes
[02:35] <rodarvus> feel free to redirect any *pt* enquiries to me
[02:35] <cbx33> hehehe
[02:35] <rodarvus> (not only pt_BR)
[02:35] <cbx33> everyone hear the latest sounds?
[02:35] <ogra> the two first letters are always the language, the two big ones are the dialect ...
[02:35] <cbx33> wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds
[02:36] <cbx33> I'm going to try to get out new music teacher when they arrive to consider ubuntu/edubuntu for their music pcs
[02:36] <ogra> i.e. there are de_DE or de_CH or de_AT .... all germany, but different countries
[02:36] <ogra> *german
[02:36] <cbx33> cos it's so bloody great doing Music and studio work on ubuntu :D
[02:36] <ogra> (and dialects)
[02:36] <RichEd> okay, we're dealing with Angolan Portugese which is in my guess closer to Mocambiquen Portugese ... but should have a pretty comon base set with Brazilian Portugese
[02:38] <RichEd> cbx33: the language in the Cameroon mail may sound dodgy to you, but bear in mind that the guy thinks in a local African dialect, speaks in French and then needs to write in English three diffferent grammar constructions, never mind word translations !
[02:39] <cbx33> RichEd, I didn't mean it that way
[02:39] <cbx33> I'm not taking the mick, I mean dodgy in that, why do people keep sending these messages to me :p
[02:40] <willvdl> and probably used Babelfish for his translation
[02:40] <RichEd> not making any point ... just pointing out the unusual circumstances of the darkest continent :)
[02:41] <RichEd> ogra: de_CH is short for swiss german ... now that's intuitive ;)
[02:41] <willvdl> Silly question but how does one maintain the various <dialects> of Portugues and Spanish? Meaning, when it comes to Mozam or Angola etc.?
[02:41] <rodarvus> RichEd, angolan portuguese is quite understandable for brazilians
[02:41] <rodarvus> (its closer to us than portugal portuguese)
[02:42] <RichEd> good to know rodarvus : i'll forward on this snippet of info to Hande & cc you in. there may be a need for local language conversation and you could assist.
[02:42] <ogra> willvdl, we have language packs for most of them ... the translator teams in launchpad care more or less for the contents
[02:43] <ogra> indeed there mya be dialects we dont cover in their own langpack 
[02:43] <ogra> *may
[02:43] <ogra> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=language-support&searchon=names&subword=1&version=dapper&release=all
[02:44] <willvdl> ogra, so are there pretty strong translation teams for the various African countries?
[02:44] <ogra> has a packagelist
[02:45] <rodarvus> RichEd, nice
[02:46] <ogra> willvdl, https://launchpad.net/rosetta has an overview (i never use it so i cant give you much hints)
[02:47] <willvdl> I have. Did some Afrikaans translation for FreedomToaster. At least I stopped when it reached the Creative Commons license description.
[02:48] <ogra> well, translating license text should be left to lawyers ;)
[02:55] <willvdl> ah. Points for Brazil there. 
[02:59] <RichEd> rodarvus: what's the mother tongue in Argentina ? Spanish ?
[02:59] <rodarvus> yes
[02:59] <willvdl> It can be quite different at the best of times though
[02:59] <rodarvus> it has some small differences from the spanish spoken in Spain, but probably is even closer to it than brazilian portuguese to portugal portuguese
[03:00] <RichEd> rodarvus: I'll send you the MoU for Thailand today. please keep confidential.
[03:00] <rodarvus> RichEd, sure, thanks!
[03:00] <willvdl> I think spelling wise is very similar but certainly sounds very different :)
[03:00] <RichEd> rodarvus: please review & add comments ... add to your actions for Monday. we'll need to get a project plan up & going next week
[03:01] <rodarvus> *nods*
[03:08] <RichEd> ogra: sent a response to your response re US meet
[03:09] <ogra> yep, i'll get to it .... busy preparing for the meeting
[03:09] <RichEd> ogra: where do i find major events canonical calendar (not on the fridge) like sprint & allhands etc.
[03:09] <RichEd> ( not rushing you :)
[03:10] <ogra> hmm, it used to be somewhere on the canonical wiki
[03:10] <ogra> but i suspect its all moved into that horrible new system 
[03:10] <RichEd> okay will look ... btw do you attend kubuntu IRC meets ?
[03:11] <ogra> rarely 
[03:11] <ogra> only if i'm very very bored 
[03:11] <ogra> :)
[03:12] <ogra> apart from kdeedu i dont go near any KDE software ... 
[03:12] <ogra> and you'd need several horses to drag me there :)
[03:22] <ogra> hmm, no highvoltage today ?
[03:32] <cbx33> ogra, i havn't seen him for a while
[03:32] <ogra> he owns a spec that needs to be reassigned :/
[03:32] <cbx33> oh
[03:32] <ogra> i wanted to have that done before the meeting today 
[03:33] <ogra> but well, then it has to wait
[03:35] <cbx33> :(
[03:35] <cbx33> what spec is that?
[03:35] <cbx33> just outta interest
[03:36] <ogra> the xfce stuff
[03:36] <rodarvus> maybe I'm able to reassign it?
[03:36] <cbx33> ahhh
[03:36] <rodarvus> let me try
[03:37] <rodarvus> ogra, its yours :D
[03:37] <ogra> yay, thanks :)
[04:17] <ogra> RichEd, if you dont mind, come over to #ltsp, jammcq (jim mcquillian) would like to hear about ubuntu dinners ;)
[04:39] <sbalneav> Monring all
[04:57] <RichEd> ogra: ping for a yes / no answer
[04:58] <ogra> pong, eve a longer one ... mdz seems not around yet in -meeting
[04:58] <ogra> *even
[04:59] <RichEd> did eric ever meet JaneW (i'm busy with an intro email) that's the Y : N
[04:59] <ogra> i think so, she started in sydney iirc ...
[04:59] <ogra> he was in sydney and in montreal
[04:59] <RichEd> and if you have a sec more, what's Eric's IRC nic in #edubuntu etc.
[04:59] <ogra> eHarrison iirc
[04:59] <ogra> with the capital H
[05:00] <ogra> but he's not in #edubuntu
[05:00] <ogra> you'll see him from time to time in #ltsp
[05:00] <RichEd> okay is it dan_young who pops into#edubuntu
[05:00] <ogra> yep
[05:00] <RichEd> and what does he nick by ?
[05:00] <ogra> he also writes on the ML
[05:00] <ogra> dan_young :)
[05:00] <RichEd> ahhhh cyptic ;)
[05:01] <RichEd> cryptic even
[05:01] <ogra> heh
[05:01] <RichEd> he also writes on the ML <- edubuntu-devel or edubuntu-users ?
[05:01] <ogra> well, until recently we only had -devel
[05:02] <ogra> i dont remember, but i suspect it wa -devel
[05:02] <ogra> *was
[05:02] <RichEd> okay ... will check out archives for some background
[05:02] <ogra> he does tech support ...
[05:03] <RichEd> i will also post to  k12osn volunteering to take on questions regarding edubuntu ... will ask eric first (for politeness) and will work out how to route these
[05:03] <ogra> point them also to the edubuntu lists ...
[05:03] <RichEd> at the moment, the questions/bugs are in the list, but no-one defiante to help ... it will be a good relationship point to start showing some responsibility
[05:03] <ogra> they could bear some more traffic
[05:04] <sbalneav> ogra: You know, one thing that Gnome needs is a way to select YOUR default printer, i.e., set $LPDEST somehow, as opposed to the printing panel which actually sets the CUPS default printer.
[05:04] <RichEd> yes, i'll do the one-on-one to get a idea of what is happeing & to be friendly, and then start making some routing sugestions
[05:04] <sbalneav> Where I work, we have several printers per server, and one thing Gnome could use is an easy way for people to set their individual printer preference.
[05:04] <ogra> sbalneav, i'm not sure gnome-cups-manager doesnt do that already
[05:04] <ogra> (i have no printers around atm)
[05:05] <RichEd> if i build up a slow steady list conversation, then it may make others on the list curious enough to investigate & evaluate
[05:05] <RichEd> and then aim for a edubuntu help page hosted in k12ltsp
[05:05] <RichEd> (softly softly catch etc ...)
[05:05] <ogra> yep
[05:06] <RichEd> okay ... will leave you to meet or code ... as you see fit :)
[05:06] <ogra> whats urgently needed is a forum ... many users dont lie mailing lists but go to forums
[05:06] <ogra> *like
[05:06] <ogra> the prob is that developers usually are the opposite way (me included)
[05:06] <RichEd> yep ... have a plan for that ... need to make sure we HOST a PEER-to-PEER forum
[05:07] <RichEd> and not get sucked into a WE'LL ANSWER your questions resource drain
[05:07] <ogra> PEER-to-PEER ?
[05:07] <ogra> you mean a forum gateway to the ML ?
[05:07] <RichEd> as in teacher helping a teacher ...
[05:07] <ogra> that gets very fast very ugly
[05:08] <ogra> oh, ok
[05:08] <RichEd> i.e. we help the proactive teacher who has a techie bent ...
[05:08] <RichEd> but that proactive teacher gets kicks out of helping other teachers
[05:09] <RichEd> (will need some moderation)
[05:09] <cbx33> RichEd, I hope you find some teachers like that :p
[05:09] <ogra> yeah :)
[05:09] <ogra> these are very very *very* rare
[05:11] <RichEd> i've seen it working with small business owners discussing & sharing problems
[05:11] <cbx33> teachers time is VERY limitied
[05:11] <RichEd> my assumptions:
[05:11] <RichEd> 1) they need to feel comfortable within their own community
[05:12] <RichEd> 2) they need to save as much time as they give
[05:12] <RichEd> i.e. find solutions from others as well as give solutions to others
[05:13] <cbx33> in my experience, teachers want everything done for them
[05:13] <ogra> the big prob there is that they wont give solutions, but workarounds
[05:13] <cbx33> they are very very difficult to work with
[05:13] <willvdl> There are some interesting movement on peer models in the south african education arena
[05:13] <ogra> you need a tech guy to monitor and tell good advice from bad one
[05:13] <cbx33> indeed
[05:13] <cbx33> that's my job :p
[05:14] <willvdl> Telecentres.org is also centered round collaborative learning
[05:14] <ogra> we have that problem with the ubuntuforums ... where you will find the worst workarounds ever 
[05:15] <ogra> cbx33, fschoep is talking about sound themes in -meeting :)
[05:16] <RichEd> here's a cut & paste from a respected FOSS advocate in Australia:
[05:16] <RichEd> We need pedagogical arguments to increase FOSS take up, rather than a
[05:17] <RichEd> focus on price or freedom. We need to make the case that FOSS gives
[05:17] <RichEd> teachers more tools to enhance the educational opportunities of their
[05:17] <RichEd> students.  We need to foster peer-to-peer collaboration, and support
[05:17] <RichEd> teacher networks, encouraging them to harness the resources around them
[05:17] <RichEd> to teach themselves about Free Software.  A local Moodle group is a good
[05:17] <RichEd> example of this.
[05:17] <RichEd> many of the same points we speak about
[05:17] <RichEd> TSF is investing heavily in the same area peer-collaboration
[05:17] <RichEd> one of us must come up with a winner we can all emulate soon
[05:18] <RichEd> faith can move mountains
[05:18] <RichEd> (she's a big girl)
[05:18] <ogra> RichEd, thats about conten stuff ... i meant the technical problems ... 
[05:18] <ogra> *content
[05:19] <ogra> for content a teacher driven support it perfectly fine
[05:19] <ogra> *is
[05:19] <RichEd> a small business person helping another small business person with say a tax question is not that different ?
[05:19] <RichEd> tax is a specialised technical field
[05:20] <ogra> my ltsp thin client doesnt boot ... what do i do ...
[05:20] <RichEd> but the person who understands enough at his own level for it to make sense, can often make sense to another "lay person"
[05:20] <ogra> "remove this and that line from this and that script, that worked for me"
[05:21] <ogra> afetr the next security upgrade his server is totally borked because the lines were important
[05:21] <ogra> the "this helped me" is the dangerous thing ... if nobody steps up and says "thats a bad idea"
[05:21] <RichEd> boundaries are needed ... and hacking scripts with a blindfold on is probably over that edge
[05:22] <ogra> in the ubuntuforums that happens daily and results in horrible things like automatix
[05:22] <RichEd> but there is a lot on the safe side where help can be given by peers
[05:22] <ogra> (a script wher someone aggregated 'all' bad advices )
[05:22] <RichEd> leaving the serious issues to the experts (who should have more time to attend)
[05:22] <RichEd> as i said, moderation will be required
[05:22] <ogra> its not about time
[05:23] <ogra> i answer about 20-30 support mails every day
[05:23] <ogra> i havent answered one forum post in my whole ubuntu time
[05:24] <willvdl> a techie can also be "embedded" into a forum to guide a conversation
[05:24] <ogra> you will find the same if you ask most of the other ubuntu devs ...
[05:25] <RichEd> ogra: differn't strokes for differn't folks ... techies prefer lists
[05:25] <ogra> yep
[05:26] <RichEd> ogra: what was Sydney gathering called (busy with that intro mail again)
[05:27] <ogra> UDU
[05:27] <ogra> ubuntu down under
[05:28] <RichEd> :) tx
[05:29] <willvdl> On tuxLabs the guys compiled a set of common or frequently occur issues/problems from the helpdesk data. This set was then either distributed onto the servers in the schools as part of the offering. It was linked from a start page and Jonathan was even working on a guided troubleshooter (xola) to walkthrough the problem.
[05:30] <ogra> thats the advantage of a helpdesk :)
[05:30] <ogra> on the ML questions are so rare that i even can implement the fix before it turns into a FAQ ;P
[05:31] <ogra> it gets better though recently :)
[05:31] <willvdl> thinking more in terms of how-to's
[05:31] <ogra> yep
[05:32] <ogra> the cookbook was awesome ...
[05:32] <willvdl> My thin-client is broken: step one-plug in cable
[05:32] <rjarett> which ltsp is edu 6.06 built around?
[05:32] <ogra> ubuntu ltsp
[05:32] <ogra> also caled muecow
[05:32] <rjarett> so nothing standard like 4.2?
[05:32] <willvdl> ogra: it was. we were working on a new version as I was leaving. The old one was still on K12
[05:32] <ogra> it will be ltsp 5.0
[05:33] <ogra> willvdl, we have a edubuntu handbook team thats doing the same ...
[05:33] <rjarett> "will be" is not something i like seeing
[05:33] <sbalneav> rjarett: The Ubuntu model is the one which LTSP will be moving to for future development.
[05:33] <willvdl> hmmmm. should see about getting those resources to the handbook team
[05:34] <ogra> willvdl, HedgeMage and pygi lead that team ... 
[05:34] <rjarett> sbalneav  ok but short term when needing to patch or incorporate fixes for stuff like local flash media which works in 4.2, its a tad tricky to narrow down what code base to upgrade
[05:34] <ogra> (both arent here yet)
[05:34] <sbalneav> The LTSP, Ubuntu, Debian, and Fedora developers will be meeting soon to hammer out a common thin client implementation that will be fairly consistent between distros.
[05:34] <RichEd> willvdl: you can ask cbx33 for cookbook -> handbook contacts ... i recall hedgemadge is involved
[05:35] <willvdl> in fact, some templates are up on http://wiki.tsf.org.za/shuttleworthfoundationwiki/TuXlab/HowTo
[05:35] <RichEd> it will be in the minutes of the meeting 2 weeks ago
[05:35] <cbx33> HedgeMage and pygi
[05:35] <sbalneav> rjarett: At the moment, Ubuntu's LTSP doesn't include localdevs, however, ogra is working on porting the LTSP localdevs stuff into Ubuntu
[05:35] <rjarett> so before i load up a 6.06 environment, i am trying to determine if edu 6.06 would be best or just vanilla and 4.2
[05:35] <RichEd> they will be keen for input ... especially if it has been test driven by users :)
[05:36] <rjarett> im trying to do flash based authentication or smartcards, and local flash drives.  no users saving data on the thin client or server
[05:36] <willvdl> cool
[05:36] <ogra> rjarett, for an upgradeability and maintainability POV ubuntu is surely the better choice ... it will be a breeze to upgrade to 5.0
[05:36] <ogra> and you can just use apt-get for maintenance of the client chroot
[05:37] <ogra> if you rely on local devices *now* youre better off with ubuntu + ltsp 4.2
[05:37] <rjarett> my environments typically are setup and not touched for a few years.  rasther than constant upgrading due to buggy codebases
[05:37] <ogra> well, thats a bad security habit ;)
[05:37] <RichEd> willvdl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HedgeMage ... works from BinaryRedneck :)
[05:37] <rjarett> not too bad when it wipes itself out nightly and reinstalls a fresh vm
[05:38] <ogra> heh
[05:38] <rjarett> or from a clean dd image
[05:38] <sbalneav> rjarett: Could you please point me at a non-buggy codebase?  I'd love to be running one of those :)
[05:38] <ogra> lol
[05:39] <rjarett> i have a few thinknic client installations running strong 5 years now without any issues.
[05:40] <rjarett> and they supported local media
[05:40] <willvdl> RichEd: interestingly, we left off our HowTo by including the soft stuff and referring to edubuntu for tech related stuff. tuxlabs was moving closer to edubuntu each release so it was a pre-emptive strike
[05:41] <willvdl> I'll ask TSF if we can get hold of the outstanding info that's not on that wiki link
[05:41] <ogra> sbalneav, you had local media in ltsp 5 years ago already ? 
[05:41] <ogra> why the heck did we meet and spec out a sane implementatin at all ? 
[05:41] <RichEd> so if we merge on the technical side and the documentation side, then we have a great pool of knowledge & solutions :)
[05:42] <cbx33> ogra, tiny pm :p
[05:42] <willvdl> Zigactly. Ferpectly right
[05:42] <ogra> we should just have stayed with that code and not improve security and usability
[05:42] <rjarett> ogra  your attitude towards useful features is lovely "wait till 5.0"  very microsoftish
[05:42] <ogra> rjarett, i gave you two options .
[05:42] <willvdl> RichEd, there is a wealth of knowledge out there. Just need to filter it. Wouldn't want to rewrite the wheel :P
[05:42] <rjarett> larger security risk to store user files on the server or client.
[05:43] <ogra> rjarett, the better integrated implementation for ubuntu is surely the included one
[05:43] <ogra> but if you need localdev use ubuntu with 4.2
[05:43] <sbalneav> ogra: He must have done something on his own, we didn't have localdevs then.
[05:43] <rjarett> well id rather go centos and 4.2 than edubuntu and "wait for 5.0"
[05:44] <ogra> rjarett, up to you ... centos will get 5.0 too :)
[05:44] <RichEd> willvdl: can i suggest you start a mail link up to hedgemadge to let her know what is available in the rough 
[05:44] <sbalneav> rjarett: I don't think anyone's saying to wait.  I think what people are saying is, "if you want localdevs NOW, go 4.2", if you want the newer way to do things WITHOUT localdevs, then wait for a bit.
[05:44] <RichEd> not suggesting you get deeply involved, but perhaps build a few bridges
[05:45] <ogra> rjarett, the advantage for you as sysadmin will be that you know how it works if you use it now ... apart from the localdevs and probably 10secs longer boot of the clients, its not worse than 4.2
[05:45] <rjarett> when i say local devs.. i mean, user plugs in their flash card, and all work they do is saved there. 
[05:46] <rjarett> browser cache/bookmarks, everything.
[05:46] <rjarett> will that be in 5.0?
[05:46] <rjarett> or will i need to make a hack for that
[05:46] <ogra> no
[05:46] <sbalneav> rjarett: 4.2 doesn't do that.  
[05:46] <sbalneav> Nothing does that currently.
[05:46] <ogra> thats not how it works
[05:47] <rjarett> i wish people looked more into thinknics deb methods
[05:48] <sbalneav> Localdevs will basically allow you to have plug in media be the same as plug in media on a regular stand alone box.  What you're looking for is a plugabble home directory.
[05:48] <rjarett> ohh well
[05:48] <rjarett> well, roaming home directories
[05:49] <ogra> persistent home :)
[05:49] <ogra> we could port that easily from the ubuntu liveCD
[05:49] <rjarett> no flash card = no ability to save files, and any work you do will be wiped out (i.e. browser cache)
[05:50] <sbalneav> Well, if thinknic does what you want already, why not simply use that?
[05:50] <rjarett> since larry ellison killed the company
[05:52] <willvdl> RichEd, will do. Wil make some round table intros. You still meeting JC tomorrow?
[05:53] <RichEd> yes ... haven't seen him appear as highvoltage on IRC today ... we've set aside time but need to confirm appt.
[05:55] <sbalneav> rjarett: Well, neither the current "stock" ltsp, nor ubuntu's LTSP does what you're looking for.  So either way, you're going to have to wait.  One way to shorten the wait would be to help get involved in the development.  If you're looking for this sort of thing, now would be the time to get your voice heard.
[05:56] <ogra> as i said, the implementation already exists in our liveCD  ... wouls just need someone who dedicates time to it fro porting
[05:57] <sbalneav> exactly
[05:57] <sbalneav> ogra: Do we have a page on the wiki somewhere for "wanted features"?  We should add this, and bring it up in Detroit Rock City.
[05:58] <ogra> sbalneav, usually we ask people to register a spec in LP 
[05:58] <sbalneav> I could do that now.
[05:59] <ogra> i wont have much time after the sprint ... we'll release in october ... so things we work out in detroit will have t wait on my side until edgy+1
[05:59] <ogra> (i'll have to prepare the release between my return and release day)
[06:00] <sbalneav> right.  Understood.
[06:00] <sbalneav> but just for discussion.
[06:00] <ogra> yep
[06:00] <ogra> even for speccing it and writing a sample implementation :)
[06:00] <ogra> but codewise i'll be frozen in ubuntu
[06:06] <sbalneav> crud.  I can't figure out how to register a spec.  I'me hopeless :)
[06:06] <sbalneav> brb, work ping.  
[06:07] <ogra> sbalneav, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+addspec
[06:10] <RichEd> i'm off to sort out supper for the kids ... end of my working day ... will be back in email later
[06:10] <willvdl> Cheers RichEd. Marilize's pizza has made my stomach grumble too
[06:11] <RichEd> willvdl: will confirm re: jonathan meet tomorrow
[06:11] <RichEd> i'll also pass on the angola email response & a response to cameroon email ...
[06:12] <RichEd> will chat in the morning. have agood evening.
[06:26] <sbalneav> rjarett: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-persistent-home
[06:33] <sbalneav> rjarett: If you'd like to go and add some notes to the specification wiki, that'd be great.
[07:10] <rjarett> sbalneav  is that for feature requests or code?
[07:15] <rjarett> whats in the 6.06 or ltsp 5.0 as far as physical authentication?   like smartcards or time accounting?   or do i need a custom pam mod and system for that
[07:23] <Petaris> rjarett: Well, if you want smart cards you will need readers
[07:24] <rjarett> are there supported readers with the module already in the release i guess is what im after... or a HCL list for the release
[07:26] <Petaris> not sure
[07:26] <Petaris> but I think smart cards are supported
[07:29] <rjarett> because with 2factor auth, or incorporating the physical layer into a student/member id it cuts down the rate of "well that wasnt me... so and so guessed my password"
[07:29] <Petaris> right
[07:30] <Petaris> we get some of that here
[07:30] <Petaris> I'd like to do biometric
[07:30] <Petaris> see them try to wiggle out of that
[07:30] <rjarett> well the problem with those at schools or churches is adolescent changes :P    
[07:31] <rjarett> like when i worked for the govt, our biometric readers would get thrown off by pregnancy
[07:31] <Petaris> really?
[07:31] <Petaris> even fingerprint readers?
[07:32] <rjarett> yeah more than 10% change in weight mixed with other issues
[07:32] <rjarett> fingerprint readers can be thrown off by size changes in hands
[07:32] <rjarett> cheap ones anyway
[07:32] <Petaris> retna scanners?
[07:32] <rjarett> too expensive
[07:33] <rjarett> but the govt used a mix of retnal and scales and pregnant women were messing up both systems.  not sure of the retnal reason
[07:34] <Petaris> according to the forum you should be able to go by the 2.6.x kernel HCL
[07:35] <rjarett> ok
[07:36] <rjarett> so im guessing the ccid basics here http://pcsclite.alioth.debian.org/ccid.html
[07:38] <Petaris> only way to know is to try
[07:38] <rjarett> yep
[07:41] <Petaris> drivers avaliable for debian so you could use those
[07:58] <sbalneav> rjarett: Sorry, back from lunch.  That would be a feature request.
[07:58] <sbalneav> If you'd like to add some thoughts to it, it'd help a lot.
[08:00] <rjarett> ill load up 6.06 in a few vms and see what comes up
[09:18] <mhz> hi all
[09:18] <mhz> ogra: did you get my bugging about next meeting schedule?
[09:37] <mhz> RichEd: are you there?
[09:38] <Caraibes> it seems a bit silent down here  :o 
[09:40] <mhz> Caraibes: yeah, indeed, sometimes it happens so
[09:40] <mhz> "i see dead people"  :D
[09:40] <crimsun> silence is golden.
[09:40] <Caraibes> actually, I am downloading edubuntu right now, becauese of the new version 6.06.1, to see if it boots on my pc's
[09:41] <Caraibes> I have 2 small kids
[09:41] <Caraibes> and look for a good open source OS with stuff for them
[09:41] <Caraibes> i AM ON bLAG 50K RIGHT NOW, ON MY OWN DESKTOP
[09:42] <mhz> Caraibes: oh, i see.
[09:42] <mhz> Edubuntu is a great choice for family solution, indeed
[09:44] <Caraibes> THANK you for your advice  :D 
[09:44] <mhz> neurogeek: ping
[09:44] <neurogeek> mhz hello!.. how are you?
[09:45] <mhz> neurogeek: alive and kicking but not internat at home
[09:45] <mhz> :(
[09:45] <Caraibes> see you !
[09:45] <mhz> so, this cibercafe thing is driving me crazy... I was so not used to it
[09:45] <mhz> :)
[09:45] <neurogeek> sad to hear that
[09:45] <neurogeek> i know what you mean
[09:46] <mhz> yeah, too many kids playing on line, to noisy, too crowded and everyone reads emails along with me, hehehe
[09:46] <mhz> neurogeek: last time I saw you you said "need to talk to you...important!"
[09:47] <neurogeek> yes..
[10:46] <mhz> neurogeek: see ya soon
[11:21] <Burgwork> ok, yum is slower than a dead cat embedded in molasses in the arctic