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maccam94hi, are there utilities in edubuntu to perform large-scale deployments and do administration over the network?12:58
Burgworkmaccam94, in what sense? if you are using LTSP, you only need to install the software on the server01:01
maccam94Burgwork: and then what? My school has 700 desktop computers, all the exact same hardware. Replacing XP with Ubuntu might help with the virus and security issues.01:02
maccam94How would such a setup work?01:02
maccam94Do you mean you install Edubuntu to a server and then all of the desktops become thin clients?01:02
Burgworkyou would need quite a few clients01:02
maccam94How much of a load is that on the network?01:03
Burgworka fair amount01:03
Burgworkyou could also install fat clients on your machines, using kickstart you can set up automated installations01:03
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Burgworkit is not that easy, but you can hook up Edubuntu to an LDAP server for authentication (by not that easy, I mean it is not turn key)01:03
maccam94How does a fat client work?01:03
Burgworkfat client is what you have now01:04
maccam94I was thinking of possibly having Edubuntu installed on the machines but having the /home directory on a server.01:04
Burgworkthat is pretty easy01:04
Burgworkthen you need nfs mount home directories01:04
maccam94But then updates must still be applied regularly01:04
Burgworkyep, but tath you can set up a cron job for01:05
Burgworksetup your machines to talk to a local package repo, and sync that repo to the ubuntu ones, to keep bandwidth down01:05
maccam94is there an easy way to deploy edubuntu to a lot of machines at once?01:05
Burgworkyes, via net install01:07
maccam94is there a link you could give me that shows how that process works? screenshots or command lists or something?01:08
Burgworksadly there is no really easy way01:09
Burgworkthis is something should be worked on01:09
Burgworkhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkWideUpdates <-- this is the plan for network wide updates01:10
Burgworkneed a plan, however01:10
Burgworkan implementation, rather01:11
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maccam94well, it's looking good to me01:13
bddebianHeya folks01:13
maccam94i was worried that this wasn't going to be the focus of edubuntu (i was wondering if it was kind of child's linux os)01:13
maccam94the only other thing i'm thinking about is initial application configuration, such as preset OOo preferences and removing the little kid games (thinking about setting this up in a high school)01:14
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BurgworkI think you can do that with kickstart, but don't quote me on it01:15
maccam94what's kickstart? link?01:15
Burgworkedubuntu is very much aimed at what you are doing, maccam94 01:15
Burgworkkickstart a RH technology to tell the installer what you want01:16
Burgworkit allows you to preseed user accounts, etc.01:16
maccam94ok, and is that on the edubuntu install cd?01:17
lucasvoBurgwork: isn't it called OEM mode?01:18
Burgworklucasvo, that is different01:18
Burgworkmaccam94, yes01:18
maccam94is there a wiki or guide that outlines ways to setup enterprise edubuntu?01:19
Burgworknot really01:20
lucasvoI would just create a user, edit the menu and copy the config into /etc/skel01:21
Burgworklucasvo, that has serious scalablity issues01:21
lucasvoBurgwork: yes...01:21
maccam94hmm, well maybe i'll see if i can get a lab of computers to test this out on...01:23
Burgworkhe is talking 700 clients01:23
BurgworkI would do that01:23
lucasvomaccam94: are they all identically?01:23
maccam94they are all identical machines01:23
lucasvowhy not a disk image?01:23
maccam94how are those deployed?01:23
lucasvoI never did it before. Let me search for a doc in google01:24
maccam94and would it be easier to deploy a disk image to 700 machines or do an pxe install?01:24
Burgworkpxe install is more sane01:25
Burgworkdisk images suck01:25
lucasvomaccam94: pxe would be much better01:25
maccam94deployment, updates, and preseeding are the major concerns.01:25
maccam94i know the machines support pxe01:25
Burgworkif they support pxe, you are laughing01:26
maccam94sorry i'm not really familiar with what it is, i've merely seen it in the boot order options01:26
maccam94(i may be an assistant to the IT admin this year, and i'm coming up with suggestions for improvements)01:27
Burgworkpxe allows booting from teh network01:27
Burgworkit also means, when you machines get old, you can turn them into thin clients01:27
maccam94hopefully the school's network will have more bandwidth by then01:27
Burgworkin other words, by switching to Edubuntu, you may have just saved your school thousands of dollars01:28
Burgworkservers can be distributed throughout the school01:28
maccam94yeah, i've just got to sell the idea01:28
maccam94the guy's got XP on all the machines, and a windows server01:28
lucasvomaccam94: with the thin client01:28
maccam94of course there's all sorts of problems01:28
lucasvomaccam94: well, one server isn't enough for 700 clients, but it's a start :)01:28
maccam94viruses, annoying restrictions, network crashing01:29
lucasvomaccam94: set up an edubuntu ltsp testlab and begin convincing the headmaster01:29
lucasvomaccam94: thin clients is the way to go. much better load balancing throughout the network01:30
maccam94if the /home directory could be on the central server (configured with FTP too) that would be a huge improvement01:30
Burgworkmaccam94, how new are the machines?01:30
maccam94lucasvo: there's 700 computers01:30
maccam94a year to two years old01:30
Burgworkthen go fat client with nfs homse01:30
Burgworkit is insane to go thin client with such new hardware01:30
lucasvomaccam94: what are the specs?01:30
lucasvoBurgwork: without something like openmosix it is indeed01:30
maccam94the network crashes in its current state, no sense putting unneccessary load on it01:30
lucasvomaccam94: invest in new network hardware01:31
maccam941.8GHz intels, 20gig hds, integrated graphics01:31
maccam94all hp/compaq01:31
lucasvothats indeed much to much for thin clients01:31
lucasvomaccam94: I wouldn't want my files be accessible over ftp01:32
lucasvoit is *very* insecure01:32
lucasvoSFTP or webdavs is much better01:32
maccam94i just have to show how much easier it is to manage such a setup, demonstrate that there aren't compatibility issues, and show how it can save money and time. this guy has probably been a windows user for life, so i just have to show him how much better the alternative is01:33
maccam94lucasvo: well i mean something of the sort, because right now every computer has a space on the hd for documents, and it's only accessible on that machine01:33
lucasvowhich guy? your IT guy?01:33
lucasvomaccam94: yes, you want either samba or nfs01:34
lucasvomaccam94: are you a student?01:34
maccam94yes, but i'm also a teacher assistant and he said I could assist him next year01:34
maccam94lucasvo: i meant (s)ftp for home access. an improvement ;-)01:34
=== lucasvo didn't succeed in making his school use edubuntu. they have g5 macs which work all the time. it would be not much improvement
maccam94on the internal network they'd be set up for nfs01:35
lucasvomaccam94: yes, you want sftp :)01:35
maccam94well they already have a decent setup01:35
lucasvoftp is like unencrypted email01:35
maccam94my school has 700 XP Pro computers01:35
lucasvomaccam94: exactly01:35
maccam94and it must be living hell for the sys admin01:35
maccam94well, dinner. thanks for the great info Burgwork and lucasvo01:36
=== maccam94 goes to eat
lucasvomaccam94: if you're at it, setup ldap :)01:36
lucasvomaccam94: good luck!01:36
Burgworkmaccam94, good luck01:36
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=== maccam94 is back
maccam94one other idea: is there any way to get in touch with (a) school(s) that have switched?02:23
Burgworkmaccam94, yes, sort of02:25
Burgworkhighvoltage, who hasn't been here much recently, was involved in the tuxlabs project02:25
Burgworkhe deployed huge numbers of tuxlabs, which are based on edubuntu02:25
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ajmitchhi rodarvus 04:22
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rodarvushello ajmitch 04:23
ajmitchI see we may have a new X maintainer soon anyway04:24
ajmitchor at least it's advertised :)04:24
ajmitchAmaranth: more jobs advertised04:25
Amaranthexpanding :)04:25
Amaranthso, i, uh, need to have my debit card taken away04:26
ajmitchwhat have you been buying?04:26
Amaranthi spent $400 on clothes today :P04:26
Amaranthi mean, i needed them, so it's good04:26
ajmitchhard to find clothes your size? :)04:26
Amaranthall i had were blue jean pants and shorts04:26
Amaranthyeah, i had to shop online04:26
Amaranthhttp://www.casualmale.com/ <--great site04:27
Amaranthshoes and pants are _really_ hard to find :P04:28
=== ajmitch is happy being a nice short 6'1"
Amaranthi'm 6'6" or 6'7", depending on when you measure :P04:29
bimberiAmaranth: can you dunk? :)04:30
Amaranthi can't jump :P04:30
=== bimberi is 6'4" and used to be able to dunk. That was a few years ago.
=== jsgotangco is only 5'4 1/2"
rodarvusajmitch: indeed, we are looking for a X maintainer (amongst other jobs, too)05:02
jsgotangcorodarvus: can't do it anymore?05:03
rodarvusactually, we have always been looking for a X maintainer, since daniels left Canonical05:04
rodarvusthe reason why I was hired is not to maintain X :)05:04
rodarvus(but OLPC, Edubuntu, etc)05:04
rodarvusjsgotangco: I'll have to dedicate less time to X in the next few weeks/ months, anyway05:05
rodarvusI have other responsabilities05:05
rodarvusand it is basically working, by now05:05
rodarvusthere are known bugs, but this is supposed to be team work (i.e., other people on the ubuntu community, and inside canonical need/will step up to help)05:06
rodarvussuch as ajmitch :)05:06
jsgotangcorodarvus: understood after all you were supposed to focus on certain work05:06
jsgotangcoso ajmitch is a possible xorg overlord?05:06
rodarvuswe shouldn't have an overlord05:07
rodarvuswe should have many developers interested on X05:07
jsgotangcowe dont have a lot05:07
rodarvusthats why I said "should" :)05:07
LaserJockif people weren't so afraid of it you would probably get more05:08
rodarvusjsgotangco: thats why we are looking for a person to be hired full time, just to work on X05:08
LaserJocknobody wants the be the guy who broke X05:08
rodarvuswell, I don't really care05:08
rodarvus(about breaking X)05:08
rodarvusthis is a development version05:08
jsgotangcoyeah well look at daniels 05:08
rodarvusand I've done worse than that on other jobs :P05:08
ajmitchjsgotangco: I'm unlikely to be your new X overload05:09
ajmitchnot nearly enough experience breaking X05:09
rodarvusmaintaining X alone is a rather huge job, full time stuff05:09
rodarvusbut we *really* can use work of developers such as ajmitch, interested in helping05:09
rodarvusjsgotangco: or triaging bugs, as you05:09
LaserJockyeah, it would be good to have an X team lead and then lots of people working on it05:10
rodarvusLaserJock: exactly05:10
jsgotangcoi wish i could do a lot of it just not enough in-depth knowledge05:10
=== ajmitch was interested as being one of the helpers
rodarvusX is hard for just one person - one developer can not have two dozen video boards on his desk05:10
=== ajmitch has about 4 or 5
rodarvus6-8 developers spending little time caring for their boards can05:10
ajmitchI think maybe 3 different chipsets that might go05:11
ajmitcheven that is not enough05:11
ajmitchit's not like anyone cares about i740 these days, for example :)05:11
rodarvusI have one nvidia, one i810 and one ati05:11
rodarvusbut its far from a "complete" collection05:11
ajmitchI don't think we could expect someone to be able to care for them all like that, even if they had the hardware05:12
jsgotangcoits very sensitive work really05:12
rodarvusthere are more than 10 different boards, with different bugs, just for i81005:12
rodarvusprobably more than 20 for nvidia05:12
rodarvuslikewise for ati05:12
=== ajmitch might apply anyway, to see what the reaction is :)
rodarvusajmitch: apply to what, you mean?05:13
rodarvushelping X, or to the X maintainership job?05:13
ajmitchthe X maintainership05:13
ajmitchthough I really doubt I could :)05:13
rodarvusto be sincere to you, Canonical is looking for someone with plenty of experience on upstream development (someone able to fix & commit code to the X.Org git repository, etc)05:14
bddebianOh pshaw ajmitch05:14
rodarvusajmitch: but I don't want to discourage you, please go for it!05:14
ajmitchrodarvus: that's what I expected05:14
jsgotangcowhy does C need a kernel maintainer? help BenC?05:15
ajmitchplus I'd have to drop other things I'm interested in05:15
ajmitchjsgotangco: multiple maintainers05:15
bddebianajmitch: Would you mind checking my upload to REVU?  I haven't done one in ages05:15
ajmitchbddebian: -> -motu05:15
rodarvus(well, we should be discussing this on -x too :) )05:16
ajmitchsure :)05:16
ajmitchI didn't want to drag it any further offtopic :)05:16
rodarvusI need to go sleep, quite late here05:20
rodarvusgood night!05:20
ajmitchnight rodarvus 05:20
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horrorkI can't find sl-modem-daemon in synaptic06:14
horrorkWhere did it go?06:14
horrorkmultiverse is enabled.06:15
bimberi!info sl-modem-daemon06:15
ubotusl-modem-daemon: SmartLink software modem daemon. In repository multiverse, is optional. Version 2.9.10+2.9.9d+e-pre2-5build1 (dapper), package size 496 kB, installed size 1136 kB (Only available for i386)06:15
bimberihorrork: i386?06:15
horrorkx86 I guess?06:15
bimberihorrork: 'uname -r' in a terminal will confirm06:16
horrorkSo what's going on?06:17
bimberiput your /etc/apt/sources.list file on a pastebin ...06:17
ubotupastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)06:17
horrorkI was following this tutorial on ubuntu it said to install sl-modem-daemon package06:17
horrorkI enabled them in synaptic, I think...06:19
horrorkDo I have to update the tree or something?06:20
ajmitchyou have multiverse enabled just for dapper-backports06:20
ajmitchit needs to be enabled for dapper06:20
bimberiok, multiverse is only enabled for dapper-backports.  You also need to enable it for other repositories by adding it to any other line with "universe" on it06:21
horrorkThat can't be done in synaptic!06:21
bimberiyes it can ... sec06:21
horrorkSo which line do I change?06:21
horrorkbimberi, in synaptic, are you sure?06:21
horrorkI checked everything in synaptic... I think that's all one can do without manually editing source.lst06:22
bimberihorrork: yes, if you click "Edit" on any repos with Universe do you have an option to choose "Multiverse"?  If not, click on "Custom" and put multiverse after universe06:23
horrorkSo exactly which one do I need?06:24
bimberihehe, alternatively you can edit the sources.list file directly06:24
horrorkYea but you can't expect a beginner to do that right?06:24
bimberisudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list06:24
horrorkNo I want to do it in synaptic.06:24
bimberik :)06:24
horrorkWhich one do I add multiverse to it?06:24
horrorkIts got like whole heap of them06:25
bimberiUbuntu 6.06 LTS (Binary) - where the 2nd line has "Community Maintained (Universe)"06:25
bimberiUbuntu 6.06 LTS Security Updates (Binary) - where the 2nd line has "Community Maintained (Universe)"06:26
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horrorkBoth of them?06:26
sbalneavogra: ping06:26
horrorkI think this is just not good enough.06:27
horrorkThe official howTo just says multiverse06:27
horrorkA total beginner will get really lost.06:27
horrorkLike me... :(06:28
sbalneavhorrork: Having a problem?06:28
horrorkYea, it is solved now. :D06:28
bimberihorrork: i find it hard to disagree, i think there should be at least a commented-out multiverse line for the other repos in the default sources.list06:28
bimberi... so that it will appear in the list for us to just enable06:29
sbalneavare you editing the file directly?06:29
horrorkI think it would be better if the tute can be more specify06:29
sbalneavIf so, why not use the gui-method.06:29
horrorkOr if there is really an option that just enables multiverse for everything just for onces.06:30
sbalneavSystem->Administration->Software Properties06:30
horrorkYea Ive done that06:30
horrorkIf I uncheck multiverse now... will it automatically uninstall sl-modem next time the auto update thing runs?06:31
sbalneavNo, it shouldn't.06:31
sbalneav!seen ogra06:34
ubotuogra is on IRC right now!06:34
sbalneav!last ogra06:34
ubotuI know nothing about last ogra - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu06:34
bimberijust to clarify, a commented out line in sources.list will mean that it will appear in the list in Synaptic and Software Properties and be enable-able06:34
bimberi!seen ogra06:34
ubotuogra is on IRC right now!06:34
sbalneavHeh, the bot in my normal channel that I run, seen tells me the last thing the person said, and at what time.06:35
bimberiif Seveas was online i'd do a "Seveas ^^^^^" under that (it's his bot)06:36
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horrorkDoes anyone know how to use dial up modem??06:58
horrorkI installed the driver but it doesn't dials??06:58
horrorkIs there a GUI thing that I can use?06:59
horrorkI already have setup the password and everything in network tools06:59
sbalneavhorrork: What kind of modem is it?07:01
horrorksl-modem I think...07:02
sbalneavDon't know anything about winmodems.  I know they need some "special" stuff to make them work since they're not a "real" modem.07:03
horrorkThe howto just says install the driver then dial07:03
horrorkBUt how???07:03
horrorkTHe drive should be installed.07:03
sbalneavWhich howto are you looking at>07:03
sbalneavIs it a USB modem?07:05
horrorkIt is a built in modem.07:05
horrorkTo my laptop.07:05
sbalneavOK, what kind of laptop do you have?07:06
sbalneavWhat make/model is it?07:07
sbalneavhorrork: What make/model is it?07:08
horrorkdv4017AP to be exact07:09
horrorkOk gotta reboot07:10
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sbalneavsigh, gone before I could reply.07:10
sbalneavogra: hey dude!  7:00!!! Get up already and answer my pings!!! :)07:11
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sbalneavWhelp, heading to bed.07:19
sbalneavNight, all07:19
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horrorkI got it dialing!!!07:20
horrorkSo the driver works07:20
horrorkBut still no internet...07:20
horrorkTHe network monitor say that I have IP.07:21
horrorkBut modem monitor say it is not connected07:21
horrorkAnd there is no internet access07:21
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horror1Can anyone help me with modem please?07:33
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bimberihorror1: i can't really help sorry. As this is not really an edubuntu specific issue you could try the #ubuntu channel, which has ~770 nicks in it atm.07:36
horror1I am posting a thread on the fourms now07:37
horror1Thanks for trying to help anyway!07:37
bimberihorror1: yw :)07:37
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RichEdhello all08:38
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RichEdtesting testing 1 2 3 ...08:54
Amaranthmic check. 1, 2. 1, 2, 3.08:54
RichEdstrange behaviour from my Xchat - window stays blank until I move off and back on ... but I see the lines advance ... wierd08:55
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=== RichEd taps the mic
RichEdah better :)08:56
AmaranthRichEd: disabled renderaccel?08:57
RichEdno it seems to be fine now ... must have been a funny ... wasn't happening in other channels ...08:58
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RichEdgreetz cbx33 : busy with mail to Mr Cameroon 09:22
=== RichEd wonders if it is really this quiet in here today or if he is disconnected
=== jsgotangco thinks we should re-evaluate the website
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RichEdjsgotangco: that's on the list ... a very long list ... am hoping to get some help from The Shuttleworth Foundation on how to best present information to end users ... they are researcing that sort fo thing10:49
RichEdresearching that sort of thing <-10:49
RichEdwhich reminds me ... i owe you some case study background re maths & science academic improvement results from IT enablement10:50
RichEdTSF may also be a good place to look10:50
jsgotangcoi will look tonight at home11:00
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RichEdno i mean for me to look :) i'll be doing some digging for you ...11:06
toosaHi RichEd11:07
RichEdhi toosa ... just diggin up your email now about the seminar ...11:07
RichEdhave you been to shippit ion the web site for CD requests ?11:08
toosa:) thank you .. 11:08
RichEdon <- ion11:08
toosaabout two months ago i have tried it, and have recieved < 20 CDs11:09
toosai forgot the exact number11:10
toosabut ...11:10
RichEdokay ... tell you what go to here to order: https://shipit.ubuntu.com/11:10
toosai plan to order more than 100 CDs ... what do i have to do ?11:11
cbx33RichEd: my CD's came today :D11:11
cbx33thank you11:11
RichEdwhen you have filled in the order request, please send me the reference ... i'll need the email address you requested from11:11
toosaok, thx a lot11:12
RichEdthen i can push to marilize that the speed of delivery must be upgraded11:12
toosai will11:12
RichEdshe is based about 20 km from me ... and i can mail her or call her or chat in #canonical11:12
RichEdplease mail me a short description of the seminar to support your request ... and any web links you may have11:13
RichEdhttps://shipit.ubuntu.com/ for UBUNTU11:13
RichEdhttps://shipit.edubuntu.com/ for EDUBUNTU11:13
RichEdif you are handing out EDUBUNTU I suggest you have some UBUNTU as well ... so if you ask for 200 Edubuntu, ask for 20 Ubuntu11:14
toosabtw, you can see a little story about our 2nd InstallFest & Seminar at my blog11:14
cbx33RichEd: do we have an ETA on the packs ?11:15
cbx33i mean in a sense that are they goign to be actively developed?11:15
RichEdtoosa: tx please mail me the link ... i am multi-tasking and mail is sticky unlike IRC :)11:16
RichEdcbx33: you mean the conference packs ?11:16
RichEdhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences <- toosa also look here11:16
RichEdyou may be able to get a t-shirt & stickers & leaflets ... if you do not fit the required profile exactly, please CC me in the mail request, and I will try to support you ... even if you get a smaller pack11:17
RichEdcbx33: what packs ? personal intercontinental transporter rocket packs are still under development, but conference packs are a reality11:19
RichEdback in 5 - fresh coffee in and processed coffee out11:19
cbx33RichEd: the leaflets we discussed11:23
jsgotangcosee you guys later11:25
RichEdcbx33: case studies ? those are still being prepared by Marketing ... format is 90% complete ...11:34
RichEdi'm still clarifying the process for submission & approval & printing11:34
RichEdwould you like an advance copy to check out ?11:34
RichEdit will give you an idea of the format & verbosity required etc.11:35
cbx33RichEd: I was talking about ESA too11:40
cbx33we were going to get that printed11:40
RichEdsorry cbx33 you'll have to refresh my memory on that one ... one too many inputs must have ejected that one: ESA stands for ? printing for distribution where ?11:43
cbx33ESA, EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy11:43
cbx33on www.edubuntu.org11:44
cbx33the UsingEdubuntu lin11:44
cbx33my intention was to get it printed to send out to schools across the country11:44
RichEdokay ... now it all comes back to me ... let me follow up with ChrisK & Malcom ... they're the marketing people with budget11:50
cbx33:D thanks RichEd 11:52
cbx33It was mentioned that if you guys couldn't afford it we could try and raise the funds ourselves11:52
cbx33I just think it's a very valuable document and that has been echoed by a few people11:52
RichEdcbx33: spent 10 mins looking for the d@mn link ... found this: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/index.html11:58
cbx33that's the one11:58
RichEdbut there was another one /SchoolAdvocacy somewhere ... dunno why I can't find the general page11:58
cbx33SchoolAdvocacy name was dropped11:58
cbx33for marketting reasons11:58
RichEdin the past 3 weeks ? either that or I'm going (more) mental11:59
cbx33no, was changed long before that11:59
cbx33ther eis a very old version on the wiki - but the svn and drupal site versions are current11:59
RichEdso where was i browsing that had /SchoolAdvocacy or /EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy or summat loik dat12:00
cbx33the wiki12:00
RichEdcbx33: w.r.t. the pages in doc ... how do you see the hypertext version working into a hardcopy format ?12:02
cbx33look right down the very bottom12:02
RichEdhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacvy <- just found this now as you were typing and remember your mockups etc. neurons flashing all over and rebuilding old links12:04
cbx33like a product brochure12:04
RichEdtell you what cbx33 ... are you happy if we formalise this into a mini-project ?12:05
cbx33RichEd: totally12:05
cbx33that's what it was originally12:05
RichEdyourself, myself, will and Marketing12:05
RichEdi'll mail you the Case Study templates now .. they fit quite closely with your mockup ... gimme 10 mins, and then i'll tell you to check your mail12:06
RichEdwe can look at side by side12:06
cbx33ok thank you RichEd 12:07
RichEdWill has tuXlabs exp. We have EtienneG in Montreal Canonical Paid Support who has schools experience12:07
cbx33and I'm an IT manager in a school12:07
RichEd(yep) Add to that yourself, and myself ... and this will be a product that will fill many needs12:08
RichEdIf we aim 1st at schools, we can bend it to govts.12:08
cbx33hence why I originally wrote the ESA :p12:08
cbx33RichEd: totally12:08
cbx33the ESA was written for schools, with "pack" i discussed with you inmind for govn12:08
RichEdmay add hedgemadge & pygi in for an opinion & review12:09
RichEdwill be back here by 12:15 ... will foward mail right now for you to open12:09
cbx33mhz helped on the original esa with laserJock, jerome and Corey12:09
=== ogra wonders if the top command lies
cbx33ogra: yes it does12:22
ograaccording to it my thin client uses only 38mb ... while playing a 4gig music collection from a locally attached usbdisk ...12:23
ograso i have sound, localdev and X running ... that is theoretically not possible in 38M12:23
cbx33maybe it's being nice to you:p12:24
ograespecially not while reading a 4Gig dir 12:24
ogra(it needs to cache parts while reading the dir)12:24
ograbut well :)12:24
cbx33what's another way to check?12:24
ograi wont complain if top desnt lie ;)12:24
cbx33it has lied to me before12:25
cbx33but I can'te remember what about12:25
cbx33RichEd: mhz was working on translating ESA too12:25
ogranow if i couls get that command being run by a user ...12:25
ograsudo mount -t unionfs -o dirs=/tmp/.1002-ltspfs:/home/ogra2/Desktop unionfs /home/ogra2/Desktop12:25
ograthen we'd not need *any* server side scripts and mounts would magically appear on ogra2's desktop 12:26
ograbut sadly it needs root :(12:26
cbx33pmount not an option?12:26
ogradoesnt support unionfs12:26
ograand shouldnt ...12:26
cbx33hehe as it wasn't in gisomounts case anyway12:26
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ograrodarvus, !12:27
rodarvusgood morning ogra!12:27
cbx33hi rodarvus 12:27
RichEdcool cbx33 : gimme a few more minutes ... if we can wrap an approved short punchy hardcopy version ... we can translate that many times12:27
cbx33RichEd: totally12:27
rodarvushi cbx33!12:27
cbx33sorry, I'll be popping off home in a while12:27
RichEdand then link to web site which can be updated & translated and more verbose12:28
ograrodarvus, probably you have an idea ....12:28
cbx33rodarvus: Jane is coming up with some good work12:28
RichEdhi rodarvus  & ogra 12:28
cbx33RichEd: indeed12:28
RichEdcbx33: how much time do you still have ? 10 mins ?12:28
cbx33probably 2012:28
cbx33dpeends when i get kicked out12:28
ograrodarvus, on the thin client udev mounts new attached devices in /tmp/drives ... that dir is fuse mounted to /tmp/$UID-ltspfs on the server ...12:28
RichEdokay ... c u in 512:28
ograrodarvus, so the devices appear magically in /tmp/$UID-ltspfs if i plug them in12:29
ograrodarvus, if i do the following:12:29
ograsudo mount -t unionfs -o dirs=/tmp/.1002-ltspfs:/home/ogra2/Desktop unionfs /home/ogra2/Desktop12:29
rodarvushi RichEd12:29
ograthe Desktop is merged with /tmp/$UID-ltspfs for ogra212:30
rodarvus(be back in two minutes)12:30
ograany idea how to do the unionfs mount from a users session script without suided mount ?12:30
RichEdcbx33: opening docs now12:36
RichEdaargh they don't display that nicely in OOffice - as per ChrisK's comments12:37
RichEdi saw the hard copy ... looked much better ...12:37
RichEdlet me open on my commercial machine next to me12:38
rodarvuslet me read and undestand this talk12:41
RichEdmmmm cbx33 to use the local ZA vernacular, looks kak in both OOffice & MSOffice12:42
RichEdi'll ask ChrisK to request a PDF copy from his layout artist12:42
RichEdso we can see the full background image impact12:42
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rodarvusogra, I don't think this can be done without root privileges12:45
rodarvusmy suggestion would be to add little privileges in /etc/sudoers (meaning: they can only run one *very specific* command as root)12:45
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cbx33RichEd: I'm gonna be off in like 5 mins12:47
cbx33you'll be bale to catch me later on 12:48
RichEdokay cbx33 - you disappeared for a bit - i will put Will ven der Leij onto this as a project task. we'll see it all the way through. resume on Monday.12:48
RichEdi'll mail you & corey & will to kick off.12:48
cbx33sounds good to me12:49
RichEdbusy chatting to head office re PDF now ... chris is on a paraffin budgie now to the US (which will hopefully not explode) ... plan B being discusses12:51
RichEddiscussed <- discusses12:52
RichEdcheck email for progress. later. have a good one.12:52
ograrodarvus, uuuh ...12:53
ograi dont think tweaking sudoers will make pitti happy :)12:53
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rodarvusogra, yeah, I share this opinion with you :)01:12
ograrodarvus, did you chaneg the postinst of xorg ? it seems setting the colordepth with a preseed value isnt possible anymore01:13
ograoh, no its a bug in the script ...01:14
ograbashism and i cant solve it01:14
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sbalneavogra: ping...01:44
sbalneavhello JanisLee 01:45
ograsbalneav, pong01:47
ogramorning 01:47
sbalneavcheck prov msg01:48
sbalneaverr, priv01:48
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pygiogra, poke02:20
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pygiogra, poke again :)02:26
=== ogra falls over
pygiogra, i've got someone from debian interested;)02:29
ograin what ? 02:29
pygithe future? libburn :)02:30
ograah :)02:30
ogranice :)02:30
pyginow if I could only fix this movie sending over Dbus, that would be great :)02:30
ogra movie sending over Dbus ?02:31
ograyoure joking, right ? 02:31
ograor do you really try to abuse debus for such amounts of data ?02:31
ogrameh, my localdevic implementation wont work :(((02:32
ograeporting the dir where i mount the devices on the client wil limit the disksize of the mount to the free mem of the client ... 02:34
ograso my 80Gig disk appears as 50M disk :/02:35
=== ogra kicks the kernel for such limitations
pygiogra, hehe :)02:37
pygijoking ofcourse ^_^02:37
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sbalneavagain :)02:56
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RichEdhi bddebian 03:52
bddebianHi RichEd03:52
RichEdseein as it is so quiet in here, can i ask a semi-off topic evolution PGP question ... just a quickie to clear up some ambiguity on an ubuntu forum post ?03:54
RichEdthe forum says post User ID details into evolution PGP security page ... surely I post Key ID details ??03:55
bddebianYou can ask but I won't be able to help you with evolution most likely :-(03:55
RichEddid you see the question ? more PGP rather than evolution03:57
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bddebianWhat exactly is it asking for?03:58
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RichEdinput prompt says KeyID ... would rather go with that than external advice page ... no ?03:59
=== Caraibes is very happy with his Edubuntu 6.06.1 (for his kids) 8-)
cbx33hi RichEd 03:59
ograCaraibes, yay, nice to hear :)03:59
Caraibeskids = 2 & 404:00
cbx33Caraibes, :D04:00
RichEdCaraibes: have you got a moment to send me an email expressing your delight ?04:00
Caraibesso thanks to the comunity !04:00
RichEdwhat you want it for and how good a job it is doing ?04:00
cbx33RichEd, did we have anything else left to discuss?04:00
RichEdcbx33: all done for now ... will catch up with you on monday ... creating task for will to manage.04:01
RichEdCaraibes:  nothing formal ... just some off the top of your head text comments ?04:01
cbx33RichEd, ok cool, just thought I'd check in04:01
Caraibesok, doing it right now...04:02
RichEdCaraibes:  i'm just looking to find out *what audience the current feature set works for* and then push for more adoption there04:02
RichEdhome use is great, kids use is great ... lots of those sort of potential users ... also cost saving on licence for home user & old work equipment etc.04:03
RichEdcbx33: can I send my first PGP encrypted email from evolution to you and get a reply to see if it all works ?04:05
cbx33you have my key I take it04:05
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RichEdnope not yet will check for it at http://pgp.mit.edu04:09
cbx33RichEd, what is your emai laddy04:10
cbx33which you have your key for04:10
Caraibeshey RichEd :04:10
RichEdfound your hotmail one ... presume that is you ?04:10
CaraibesWell, here's the story :04:10
cbx33I'll send you a message too encrypted 04:10
CaraibesI am a GNU/linux aficionado, and I also happen to have 2 little boys, 2 & 4 years old. I just realised that the eldest seems to take interest in computers, so I downloaded and installed Edubuntu 6.06.1 (brand new from yesterday), and installed it on one of my little internet-caf's PC's (dual-boot, because of the customers, but I personally don't use windows).04:10
CaraibesI made sure to add "Childsplay" to the games, since my kids enjoy it. There's "the potato guy", "Tux Paint", and the layout seems to be appealing for children. So I am very happy with it, and plan to install it on more PC's.04:10
CaraibesI realised my install in spanish, since we are in Dominican Republic, and this is the language the kids use at Kindergarten.04:10
CaraibesThat's about it...04:10
CaraibesI want to thank the folks behind that project, because it is much apreciated !04:10
cbx33RichEd, use petesavage@ubuntu.com04:10
cbx33that should have one04:10
RichEdlovely Caraibes :) can you send it in an email to richard.edubuntu@gmail.com04:11
RichEdokay cbx33 : i looked for peter04:11
Caraibesif ou need more, ask me !04:11
cbx33hehe ok04:11
RichEdthat's more than fine ... language feature as well ! ... all very nice04:12
RichEdCaraibes: and if a 2 & 4 year old can use linux, why are so many 30 year old IT Technical people afraid ? :)04:13
Caraibesif you know more material to learn how to read & write for small kids... let me know...04:13
Caraibesthat's me !04:13
Caraibesbut I am not afraid since 2 years  8-) 04:13
RichEdcbx33: no pete savage @ ubuntu at http://pgp.mit.edu04:15
cbx33ogra, what's the keyserver you use04:16
RichEdis the hotmail one you ?04:16
cbx33node50@hotmail.com - but I'm not gpg enabled there04:16
cbx33petesavage@ubuntu.com is04:16
cbx33sent one to you04:17
RichEdokay ... ta04:17
cbx33goto the command line and type    gpg -recv-keys A5B281DF 04:17
cbx33that should get my key04:17
cbx33that's the one04:18
RichEdgot the mail ... but please resend ... finger / memory trouble on passphrase04:19
cbx33hehe ok04:20
RichEdsorted ! thanks reply on its way04:21
cbx33you're in business04:23
RichEdthanks for help !04:24
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cbx33RichEd, np04:37
jomolinaalguien que hable espaol????04:37
jomolinaHola buenos das Alguien que hable Espaol04:37
jomolinanecesito ayuda!04:38
cbx33Is that, is there anyone who speaks spanish, I need help?04:38
jomolinaI need help, but my english is very bad, I speak Espaol, 04:40
cbx33My spanish is non existant04:40
cbx33but I can try to help04:40
jomolinaok cbx3304:40
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sbalneavogra: you there, o-dog?04:43
CaraibesAqui si hablamos espaol !04:44
Caraibespero los demas hablan ingls !04:45
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ograsbalneav, yup04:56
sbalneavI've been doing some reading, and I think this is totally solvable04:56
ograhow ?04:57
sbalneavwant to discuss it here, or in mesg?04:57
ograas you like :)04:57
sbalneavup to you, just didn't want to flood channel with mumbo-jumbo.04:57
sbalneavwe'll do it here.04:58
ograwell, its edubuntu development :)04:58
sbalneavok, here's the plan:04:58
sbalneavon the add_fstab and remove_fstab:04:59
sbalneavwhat we don't want to do is the mount there: because ltspfsd has the built in automounter, that will handle unmounting idle media.04:59
sbalneavSo, rather than mounting, and that point, we send a command back up to the server through the ssh tunnel05:00
sbalneavto ltspfs mount the dir that's been added.05:00
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ograsince sync mounting seems to be quite stable in 2.6.16 i thought we could just use that05:00
ograbut since we need the notification system anyway, it doesnt matter05:00
sbalneavAnd since we've got that nice existing ssh tunnel to route commands over, this is a piece of cake05:01
ograso how do we send the command through the tunnel ? 05:01
ograwe cant use a port05:01
sbalneavsee, in "stock" ltsp, we don't HAVE that, so thats why we have lbus.05:01
ograldm wouldnt know which port is avalable on the server while it initiates the ssh connection05:03
sbalneavright, but at this point, you've alread established the connection, and ssh has that fancy bit that allows you to send commands over an already established port, yes?05:03
ograhow ? 05:04
sbalneavWhat's the option for that....05:04
sbalneavMan, I've seen it.  We talked about it 2 dev confs ago.05:04
ograi only know that you can establish multiple tunnels through one connection by giving multiple ports to the ssh command ...05:04
sbalneavhmmm, gimme 2 shakes to look this up...05:05
ograbut i have no idea how to connect to an established connection on a ssh level05:05
ograi know it should be possible through X05:05
sbalneavControlMaster's the ticket.05:07
sbalneavand http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/29005:08
sbalneavWe've got the ssh connection esatblished, we can just jam the ltspfs mount commands down it.05:08
sbalneavEasy like pie.05:08
sbalneavI'll hack it up when I get home.05:09
sbalneavThis will actually be EASIER than what stock ltsp has to do with lbus.05:09
=== sbalneav suspect's ogra's reading furiously.
ograi am05:15
ograwe'll likely need to store the username somewhere 05:15
sbalneavSure, but since YOU wrote LDM, that should be a cakewalk :)05:16
sbalneavactually, we probably don't need to store the username05:16
sbalneavyou could set control master to just /tmp/%h:%p05:17
sbalneavsince there will only be one user on the terminal05:17
sbalneavI think that's just to name the socket in an intelligent way.05:17
ograthere is only root on the terminal indeed05:17
sbalneaveasy as pie.05:18
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=== ogra tries to use -M and -S in ldm
ograok, works ...05:27
ograsbalneav, wow, thast really cool05:31
ograand doesnt need any username :)05:31
sbalneavThere are no problems, only solutions :)05:31
maccam94is there a way to quickly create hundreds of users?05:32
sbalneavmaccam94: heh, sure.05:33
sbalneavDo you have a list of them?05:33
maccam94well probably in some form of database05:33
sbalneavCan you shell script?05:33
maccam94I can... to a degree.05:34
sbalneavreally, all you need to do is just call adduser command05:34
sbalneavadduser --home DIR --shell SHELL etc.05:35
maccam94Is there a way to feed a large list of users into it at once, and set them all with the same groups?05:35
sbalneavno, but a simple shell for loop will do that.05:35
sbalneavHave you already got the usernames decided, or do you just have firstname and lastname and need to generate the username?05:36
maccam94Ok, well the other thing is that it's a list of Full Names, not user names05:36
maccam94i havec to generate the username05:36
maccam94and random passwords05:36
ograsbalneav, yay, works wonderful ... and we can even do it from the udev script i think ;)05:36
sbalneavWhat standard do you use?05:36
sbalneavScott Balneaves = sbalneav?05:36
sbalneavogra: exactly.05:37
maccam94well probably something like that yeah05:37
maccam94something would have to be done to resolve dupes though...05:38
sbalneavmaccam94: gimme a couple of minutes, I'll code you up a quick example, you can go from there.05:38
maccam94400 users, there'll probably be at least a few people with the same first initial and last name05:38
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sbalneavmaccam94: What's yer email.05:49
sbalneavyo yo!05:50
=== maccam94 has a few yoyo's at his house
=== maccam94 attacks jsgotangco with a duncan and an x-brain
sbalneavk, sent it.05:54
sbalneavIt's not complete, but it's enough to get you started.05:54
cbx33hey jsgotangco 05:55
sbalneavIt creates the userid from the firstname lastname pair, and generates the appropriate adduser commandline.05:55
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sbalneavDo you administer a large Linux site?05:58
maccam94well i'm designing a proposal to replace a school's windows setup with edubuntu05:59
cbx33maccam94, good on you :p05:59
sbalneavIf you're a sysadmin, picking "Learning BASH" from O'Reilly books is a VERY worthwhile investment.  Spending an hour a day learning a bit of shell scripting will save 10x the amount of drudgework down the road :)06:00
maccam94yeah i've been looking into shell scripting for a while, I really like it06:00
maccam94i use gentoo on my desktop personally06:00
maccam94but i think something like edubuntu is much more normal-people speed and would be much better at school06:00
maccam94not to mention that it would fix many long standing problems06:01
maccam94700 windows xp machines with one sys admin is a recipe for disaster06:01
cbx33maccam94, totally agree with you06:01
sbalneav700 machines with one admin?  Yikes.06:02
sbalneavThe standard metric is one MCSE per 30-40 machines.06:02
maccam94sometimes he gets extra network people in to help set up new equipment06:02
sbalneavso they should have like a staff of 15 at least.06:02
maccam94but he's the only guy who manages things full time really06:03
maccam94it's a public high school06:03
maccam94there's no way that's in the budget ;-)06:03
maccam94I bet that setting up edubuntu would make life much easier for the guy. he'd be able to automate almost everything, and security would no longer be a major issue06:04
maccam94just set up all the student accounts without wheel priveliges06:04
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maccam94hmmm... actually maybe setting up /etc to be on the server wouldn't be a bad idea either...06:05
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cbx33hi LaserJock 06:43
bddebianHeya LaserJock06:43
LaserJockhi guys06:45
cbx33howz it going06:46
LaserJockgood, got another MOTU School session in 10 min.06:47
pygiLaserJock, what are we learning today? :)06:49
LaserJockpackaging basics06:50
Amaranthi should totally go to that one06:50
AmaranthLaserJock: it's not going to be 3 hours long, is it?06:51
Amaranththe last MOTU School session i attended was _long_06:51
LaserJockit was 2 hr last night :/06:52
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=== jsgotangco yawns
LaserJockjsgotangco: hehe, coming to another session? ;-)07:14
=== ogra smiles
ograsbalneav, got it running07:20
ograwith a 15 line server sided shellscript ;)07:20
ograexecuted from the udev script :)07:21
Amaranthogra: what package should i steal from to figure out how to create an /etc/willowng/training.db file but not overwrite it on upgrade?07:28
ogramake it a conffile ?07:32
Amaranthwon't it ask on every upgrade if you want to keep your version?07:33
ograit wont be touched by the package then, but you cant change the contents of it in the package, if both files changed, then the user gets a prompt on upgrades07:33
Amaranthand show a worthless binary diff07:33
ograno, it will only ask if both chnaged07:33
ogra(at least it should)07:33
Amaranthso if i preload a training.db with good/bad domains and content, add /etc/willowng/training.db to debian/conffiles, and never change training.db in the package again, they won't be bothered about it on upgrade if they add more training on their own?07:34
Amaranthafter that i can use postinst scripts to add things to the DB without killing it07:35
ograbut you cant change it in the package anymore07:40
Amaranthnot even with a script that uses sqlite in postinst?07:41
ograpostinst should be fine07:41
Amaranthi think i'm going to have an "update-database" script that reads a file and does it's magic07:42
ograsounds good07:42
Amaranthi'll just have to work a little extra magic to make sure i don't overtrain the classifier if someone does a bunch of reinstalls07:44
sbalneavogra: back from lunch07:47
sbalneavtarball me your stuff, when you get a moment!07:47
ograwill do07:47
sbalneavThat way I can play with it tonight07:47
ograits not perfect yet 07:47
ograbut its basically working07:47
sbalneavWell, all we need is a little spit-n-polish.07:48
sbalneavwe can iron that out this weekend.07:48
ograthat we have ot have DISPLAY set for ltspfs is somewhat disturbing 07:48
ograand i cant convince ltspfsd to do the mounting 07:48
sbalneavogra: well, we can fix that.07:48
ograi still need the mount command 07:48
ograis there any special magic i'm missing ?07:48
ogra(i'm not using /tmp/fstab btw)07:49
sbalneavprolly.  You need an /sbin/ltspfs_[u] mount script07:49
ograoh, on the client ? 07:49
sbalneav*_mount looks like:07:50
sbalneav/bin/mount $107:50
ograand umount is the same i guess07:50
sbalneavI'll leave it to your imagination what the umount is :)07:50
ogrado you need the -l flag ? 07:50
sbalneavno, don't need it.07:50
sbalneavbecause ltspfs detects when theres no activty, and does a clean unmount.07:51
sbalneavit's a beautiful thing.07:51
ograi wonder how we shoud handle device labels with spaces07:51
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sbalneavthere's a DEVICE_LABEL_SAFE tag that udev creates... hold on... I'll tell you what it is07:52
ograi have that scripts07:52
ograi copied ltspfs_mount from the wiki ... indeed it uses /tmp/fstab :)07:52
sbalneavsee, we wuz so smart we thought this all out already :)07:53
sbalneavwe just FORGOT we solved this problem :)07:53
ograIT WORKS !!07:55
sbalneavwe're good.07:55
ograyoure good !07:55
sbalneavSee?  Didn't I say this was gonna be easy? :)07:56
sbalneavssh -S for the win!07:58
sbalneavSee the whole lbus thing for us is there because other than the xdmcp connection, we've got no stateful connection between the terminal and the server.07:59
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sbalneavSo, we'd either have had to come up with something that used properties and xatoms, (which would have been more "proper", but way grosser)...08:00
sbalneavOR come up with our own little diddly bit, until network aware dbus comes along.08:00
sbalneavlbus is our diddly bit.08:00
sbalneavYOU don't need it because you've already GOT the stateful connection: the ssh tunnel.08:01
sbalneavit's perfect.08:01
ograand it unmounts correctly now :)08:02
ogranow how to trick nautilus to have a bookmark and the right icon ...08:03
ograsadly ~/gtk-bookmars doesnt accept .desktop files 08:03
sbalneavWhat was the bug we came up with in Nautilus that we needed to get fixed... I think we documented it on the localdev spec....08:04
=== sbalneav launchpads
ograits not for us ...08:04
ograthat wuld require that we have write access to /media and g-v-m recognizes it as a real device08:04
ograwe'll have to mount it anywhere else :/08:04
ograor to rebuild pmount08:05
sbalneavWhen's the next motu-school?  I should attend08:08
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sbalneavogra: still there?10:02
LaserJocksbalneav: did you catch any of that session?10:03
sbalneavLaserJock: I sure did, thanks!10:05
LaserJocksbalneav: cool10:06
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sbalneavogra: Heading home for the day.  Please remember to email me toys!!!!10:48
sbalneavbye all10:48
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pygiogra, what would you say if all cdrecord-enabled applications would work without having cdrecord installed? :)10:49
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