[12:58] <maccam94> hi, are there utilities in edubuntu to perform large-scale deployments and do administration over the network?
[01:01] <Burgwork> maccam94, in what sense? if you are using LTSP, you only need to install the software on the server
[01:02] <maccam94> Burgwork: and then what? My school has 700 desktop computers, all the exact same hardware. Replacing XP with Ubuntu might help with the virus and security issues.
[01:02] <maccam94> How would such a setup work?
[01:02] <maccam94> Do you mean you install Edubuntu to a server and then all of the desktops become thin clients?
[01:02] <Burgwork> yes
[01:02] <Burgwork> you would need quite a few clients
[01:03] <Burgwork> s/clients/servers
[01:03] <maccam94> How much of a load is that on the network?
[01:03] <Burgwork> a fair amount
[01:03] <Burgwork> you could also install fat clients on your machines, using kickstart you can set up automated installations
[01:03] <Burgwork> it is not that easy, but you can hook up Edubuntu to an LDAP server for authentication (by not that easy, I mean it is not turn key)
[01:03] <maccam94> How does a fat client work?
[01:04] <Burgwork> fat client is what you have now
[01:04] <maccam94> I was thinking of possibly having Edubuntu installed on the machines but having the /home directory on a server.
[01:04] <Burgwork> that is pretty easy
[01:04] <Burgwork> then you need nfs mount home directories
[01:04] <maccam94> But then updates must still be applied regularly
[01:05] <Burgwork> yep, but tath you can set up a cron job for
[01:05] <Burgwork> setup your machines to talk to a local package repo, and sync that repo to the ubuntu ones, to keep bandwidth down
[01:05] <maccam94> is there an easy way to deploy edubuntu to a lot of machines at once?
[01:07] <Burgwork> yes, via net install
[01:08] <maccam94> is there a link you could give me that shows how that process works? screenshots or command lists or something?
[01:08] <Burgwork> http://halisway.blogspot.com/2006/06/ubuntu-dapper-pxe-network-install.html
[01:09] <Burgwork> sadly there is no really easy way
[01:09] <Burgwork> this is something should be worked on
[01:10] <Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkWideUpdates <-- this is the plan for network wide updates
[01:10] <Burgwork> need a plan, however
[01:11] <Burgwork> an implementation, rather
[01:13] <maccam94> well, it's looking good to me
[01:13] <bddebian> 2
[01:13] <bddebian> Whoops
[01:13] <bddebian> Heya folks
[01:13] <maccam94> i was worried that this wasn't going to be the focus of edubuntu (i was wondering if it was kind of child's linux os)
[01:14] <maccam94> the only other thing i'm thinking about is initial application configuration, such as preset OOo preferences and removing the little kid games (thinking about setting this up in a high school)
[01:15] <Burgwork> I think you can do that with kickstart, but don't quote me on it
[01:15] <maccam94> what's kickstart? link?
[01:15] <Burgwork> edubuntu is very much aimed at what you are doing, maccam94 
[01:16] <Burgwork> kickstart a RH technology to tell the installer what you want
[01:16] <Burgwork> it allows you to preseed user accounts, etc.
[01:17] <maccam94> ok, and is that on the edubuntu install cd?
[01:18] <lucasvo> Burgwork: isn't it called OEM mode?
[01:18] <Burgwork> lucasvo, that is different
[01:18] <Burgwork> maccam94, yes
[01:19] <maccam94> is there a wiki or guide that outlines ways to setup enterprise edubuntu?
[01:20] <Burgwork> not really
[01:21] <lucasvo> I would just create a user, edit the menu and copy the config into /etc/skel
[01:21] <Burgwork> lucasvo, that has serious scalablity issues
[01:21] <lucasvo> Burgwork: yes...
[01:23] <maccam94> hmm, well maybe i'll see if i can get a lab of computers to test this out on...
[01:23] <Burgwork> he is talking 700 clients
[01:23] <Burgwork> I would do that
[01:23] <lucasvo> maccam94: are they all identically?
[01:23] <maccam94> they are all identical machines
[01:23] <lucasvo> why not a disk image?
[01:23] <maccam94> how are those deployed?
[01:24] <lucasvo> I never did it before. Let me search for a doc in google
[01:24] <maccam94> and would it be easier to deploy a disk image to 700 machines or do an pxe install?
[01:25] <Burgwork> pxe install is more sane
[01:25] <Burgwork> disk images suck
[01:25] <lucasvo> maccam94: pxe would be much better
[01:25] <maccam94> deployment, updates, and preseeding are the major concerns.
[01:25] <maccam94> i know the machines support pxe
[01:26] <Burgwork> if they support pxe, you are laughing
[01:26] <maccam94> ?
[01:26] <maccam94> sorry i'm not really familiar with what it is, i've merely seen it in the boot order options
[01:27] <maccam94> (i may be an assistant to the IT admin this year, and i'm coming up with suggestions for improvements)
[01:27] <Burgwork> pxe allows booting from teh network
[01:27] <maccam94> right
[01:27] <Burgwork> it also means, when you machines get old, you can turn them into thin clients
[01:27] <maccam94> ok
[01:27] <maccam94> hopefully the school's network will have more bandwidth by then
[01:27] <maccam94> haha
[01:28] <Burgwork> in other words, by switching to Edubuntu, you may have just saved your school thousands of dollars
[01:28] <Burgwork> servers can be distributed throughout the school
[01:28] <maccam94> yeah, i've just got to sell the idea
[01:28] <maccam94> the guy's got XP on all the machines, and a windows server
[01:28] <lucasvo> maccam94: with the thin client
[01:28] <maccam94> of course there's all sorts of problems
[01:28] <lucasvo> maccam94: well, one server isn't enough for 700 clients, but it's a start :)
[01:29] <maccam94> viruses, annoying restrictions, network crashing
[01:29] <lucasvo> maccam94: set up an edubuntu ltsp testlab and begin convincing the headmaster
[01:30] <lucasvo> maccam94: thin clients is the way to go. much better load balancing throughout the network
[01:30] <maccam94> if the /home directory could be on the central server (configured with FTP too) that would be a huge improvement
[01:30] <Burgwork> maccam94, how new are the machines?
[01:30] <maccam94> lucasvo: there's 700 computers
[01:30] <maccam94> a year to two years old
[01:30] <Burgwork> then go fat client with nfs homse
[01:30] <maccam94> yeah
[01:30] <Burgwork> it is insane to go thin client with such new hardware
[01:30] <maccam94> yeah
[01:30] <lucasvo> maccam94: what are the specs?
[01:30] <lucasvo> Burgwork: without something like openmosix it is indeed
[01:30] <maccam94> the network crashes in its current state, no sense putting unneccessary load on it
[01:31] <lucasvo> maccam94: invest in new network hardware
[01:31] <maccam94> 1.8GHz intels, 20gig hds, integrated graphics
[01:31] <maccam94> all hp/compaq
[01:31] <lucasvo> thats indeed much to much for thin clients
[01:32] <lucasvo> maccam94: I wouldn't want my files be accessible over ftp
[01:32] <lucasvo> it is *very* insecure
[01:32] <lucasvo> SFTP or webdavs is much better
[01:33] <maccam94> i just have to show how much easier it is to manage such a setup, demonstrate that there aren't compatibility issues, and show how it can save money and time. this guy has probably been a windows user for life, so i just have to show him how much better the alternative is
[01:33] <maccam94> lucasvo: well i mean something of the sort, because right now every computer has a space on the hd for documents, and it's only accessible on that machine
[01:33] <lucasvo> which guy? your IT guy?
[01:33] <maccam94> yeah
[01:34] <lucasvo> maccam94: yes, you want either samba or nfs
[01:34] <lucasvo> maccam94: are you a student?
[01:34] <maccam94> yes, but i'm also a teacher assistant and he said I could assist him next year
[01:34] <maccam94> lucasvo: i meant (s)ftp for home access. an improvement ;-)
[01:35] <maccam94> on the internal network they'd be set up for nfs
[01:35] <lucasvo> maccam94: yes, you want sftp :)
[01:35] <maccam94> well they already have a decent setup
[01:35] <lucasvo> ftp is like unencrypted email
[01:35] <maccam94> my school has 700 XP Pro computers
[01:35] <lucasvo> maccam94: exactly
[01:35] <maccam94> and it must be living hell for the sys admin
[01:36] <maccam94> well, dinner. thanks for the great info Burgwork and lucasvo
[01:36] <lucasvo> maccam94: if you're at it, setup ldap :)
[01:36] <lucasvo> maccam94: good luck!
[01:36] <lucasvo> bye
[01:36] <Burgwork> maccam94, good luck
[02:23] <maccam94> one other idea: is there any way to get in touch with (a) school(s) that have switched?
[02:25] <Burgwork> maccam94, yes, sort of
[02:25] <Burgwork> highvoltage, who hasn't been here much recently, was involved in the tuxlabs project
[02:25] <Burgwork> he deployed huge numbers of tuxlabs, which are based on edubuntu
[02:26] <maccam94> hmm
[04:22] <ajmitch> hi rodarvus 
[04:23] <rodarvus> hello ajmitch 
[04:24] <ajmitch> I see we may have a new X maintainer soon anyway
[04:24] <ajmitch> or at least it's advertised :)
[04:24] <Amaranth> ?
[04:25] <ajmitch> Amaranth: more jobs advertised
[04:25] <Amaranth> ah
[04:25] <Amaranth> expanding :)
[04:26] <ajmitch> again
[04:26] <Amaranth> so, i, uh, need to have my debit card taken away
[04:26] <ajmitch> what have you been buying?
[04:26] <Amaranth> i spent $400 on clothes today :P
[04:26] <ajmitch> ouch
[04:26] <Amaranth> i mean, i needed them, so it's good
[04:26] <ajmitch> hard to find clothes your size? :)
[04:26] <Amaranth> all i had were blue jean pants and shorts
[04:26] <Amaranth> yeah, i had to shop online
[04:27] <Amaranth> http://www.casualmale.com/ <--great site
[04:28] <Amaranth> shoes and pants are _really_ hard to find :P
[04:29] <Amaranth> heh
[04:29] <Amaranth> i'm 6'6" or 6'7", depending on when you measure :P
[04:30] <bimberi> Amaranth: can you dunk? :)
[04:30] <Amaranth> nope
[04:30] <Amaranth> :P
[04:30] <Amaranth> i can't jump :P
[04:31] <bimberi> :)
[04:58] <jsgotangco> wow
[05:02] <rodarvus> ajmitch: indeed, we are looking for a X maintainer (amongst other jobs, too)
[05:03] <jsgotangco> rodarvus: can't do it anymore?
[05:04] <rodarvus> actually, we have always been looking for a X maintainer, since daniels left Canonical
[05:04] <rodarvus> the reason why I was hired is not to maintain X :)
[05:04] <rodarvus> (but OLPC, Edubuntu, etc)
[05:05] <rodarvus> jsgotangco: I'll have to dedicate less time to X in the next few weeks/ months, anyway
[05:05] <rodarvus> I have other responsabilities
[05:05] <rodarvus> and it is basically working, by now
[05:06] <rodarvus> there are known bugs, but this is supposed to be team work (i.e., other people on the ubuntu community, and inside canonical need/will step up to help)
[05:06] <rodarvus> such as ajmitch :)
[05:06] <jsgotangco> rodarvus: understood after all you were supposed to focus on certain work
[05:06] <jsgotangco> so ajmitch is a possible xorg overlord?
[05:07] <rodarvus> we shouldn't have an overlord
[05:07] <rodarvus> (imho)
[05:07] <rodarvus> we should have many developers interested on X
[05:07] <jsgotangco> we dont have a lot
[05:07] <rodarvus> thats why I said "should" :)
[05:08] <LaserJock> if people weren't so afraid of it you would probably get more
[05:08] <rodarvus> jsgotangco: thats why we are looking for a person to be hired full time, just to work on X
[05:08] <LaserJock> nobody wants the be the guy who broke X
[05:08] <rodarvus> well, I don't really care
[05:08] <rodarvus> (about breaking X)
[05:08] <rodarvus> this is a development version
[05:08] <jsgotangco> yeah well look at daniels 
[05:08] <rodarvus> and I've done worse than that on other jobs :P
[05:09] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: I'm unlikely to be your new X overload
[05:09] <ajmitch> not nearly enough experience breaking X
[05:09] <rodarvus> maintaining X alone is a rather huge job, full time stuff
[05:09] <ajmitch> s/load/lord/
[05:09] <rodarvus> but we *really* can use work of developers such as ajmitch, interested in helping
[05:09] <rodarvus> jsgotangco: or triaging bugs, as you
[05:10] <LaserJock> yeah, it would be good to have an X team lead and then lots of people working on it
[05:10] <rodarvus> LaserJock: exactly
[05:10] <jsgotangco> i wish i could do a lot of it just not enough in-depth knowledge
[05:10] <rodarvus> X is hard for just one person - one developer can not have two dozen video boards on his desk
[05:10] <jsgotangco> yeah
[05:10] <rodarvus> 6-8 developers spending little time caring for their boards can
[05:11] <ajmitch> I think maybe 3 different chipsets that might go
[05:11] <ajmitch> even that is not enough
[05:11] <ajmitch> it's not like anyone cares about i740 these days, for example :)
[05:11] <rodarvus> I have one nvidia, one i810 and one ati
[05:11] <rodarvus> but its far from a "complete" collection
[05:12] <ajmitch> I don't think we could expect someone to be able to care for them all like that, even if they had the hardware
[05:12] <jsgotangco> its very sensitive work really
[05:12] <rodarvus> there are more than 10 different boards, with different bugs, just for i810
[05:12] <rodarvus> probably more than 20 for nvidia
[05:12] <rodarvus> likewise for ati
[05:13] <rodarvus> ajmitch: apply to what, you mean?
[05:13] <rodarvus> helping X, or to the X maintainership job?
[05:13] <ajmitch> the X maintainership
[05:13] <rodarvus> oh
[05:13] <jsgotangco> hail!
[05:13] <ajmitch> though I really doubt I could :)
[05:14] <rodarvus> to be sincere to you, Canonical is looking for someone with plenty of experience on upstream development (someone able to fix & commit code to the X.Org git repository, etc)
[05:14] <bddebian> Oh pshaw ajmitch
[05:14] <rodarvus> ajmitch: but I don't want to discourage you, please go for it!
[05:14] <ajmitch> rodarvus: that's what I expected
[05:15] <jsgotangco> why does C need a kernel maintainer? help BenC?
[05:15] <ajmitch> plus I'd have to drop other things I'm interested in
[05:15] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: multiple maintainers
[05:15] <rodarvus> exactly
[05:15] <jsgotangco> right
[05:15] <bddebian> ajmitch: Would you mind checking my upload to REVU?  I haven't done one in ages
[05:15] <ajmitch> bddebian: -> -motu
[05:16] <rodarvus> (well, we should be discussing this on -x too :) )
[05:16] <ajmitch> sure :)
[05:16] <ajmitch> I didn't want to drag it any further offtopic :)
[05:20] <rodarvus> :)
[05:20] <rodarvus> I need to go sleep, quite late here
[05:20] <rodarvus> good night!
[05:20] <ajmitch> night rodarvus 
[06:14] <horrork> I can't find sl-modem-daemon in synaptic
[06:14] <horrork> Where did it go?
[06:15] <horrork> multiverse is enabled.
[06:15] <bimberi> !info sl-modem-daemon
[06:15] <ubotu> sl-modem-daemon: SmartLink software modem daemon. In repository multiverse, is optional. Version 2.9.10+2.9.9d+e-pre2-5build1 (dapper), package size 496 kB, installed size 1136 kB (Only available for i386)
[06:15] <bimberi> horrork: i386?
[06:15] <horrork> Umm
[06:15] <horrork> x86 I guess?
[06:16] <bimberi> horrork: 'uname -r' in a terminal will confirm
[06:17] <horrork> 2.6.15-26-386
[06:17] <horrork> So what's going on?
[06:17] <bimberi> put your /etc/apt/sources.list file on a pastebin ...
[06:17] <bimberi> !pastebin
[06:17] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[06:17] <horrork> I was following this tutorial on ubuntu it said to install sl-modem-daemon package
[06:18] <horrork> Ok
[06:19] <horrork> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20246
[06:19] <horrork> I enabled them in synaptic, I think...
[06:20] <ajmitch> right
[06:20] <horrork> Do I have to update the tree or something?
[06:20] <ajmitch> you have multiverse enabled just for dapper-backports
[06:20] <horrork> ??
[06:20] <ajmitch> it needs to be enabled for dapper
[06:20] <horrork> Really?
[06:20] <ajmitch> yes
[06:21] <bimberi> ok, multiverse is only enabled for dapper-backports.  You also need to enable it for other repositories by adding it to any other line with "universe" on it
[06:21] <horrork> That can't be done in synaptic!
[06:21] <horrork> Ok
[06:21] <bimberi> yes it can ... sec
[06:21] <horrork> So which line do I change?
[06:21] <horrork> bimberi, in synaptic, are you sure?
[06:22] <horrork> I checked everything in synaptic... I think that's all one can do without manually editing source.lst
[06:23] <bimberi> horrork: yes, if you click "Edit" on any repos with Universe do you have an option to choose "Multiverse"?  If not, click on "Custom" and put multiverse after universe
[06:23] <horrork> :o
[06:24] <horrork> So exactly which one do I need?
[06:24] <bimberi> hehe, alternatively you can edit the sources.list file directly
[06:24] <horrork> Yea but you can't expect a beginner to do that right?
[06:24] <bimberi> sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
[06:24] <horrork> No I want to do it in synaptic.
[06:24] <bimberi> k :)
[06:24] <horrork> Which one do I add multiverse to it?
[06:25] <horrork> Its got like whole heap of them
[06:25] <bimberi> Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Binary) - where the 2nd line has "Community Maintained (Universe)"
[06:26] <bimberi> Ubuntu 6.06 LTS Security Updates (Binary) - where the 2nd line has "Community Maintained (Universe)"
[06:26] <horrork> Both of them?
[06:26] <horrork> Ok
[06:26] <horrork> Thanks
[06:26] <sbalneav> ogra: ping
[06:27] <horrork> Umm
[06:27] <horrork> I think this is just not good enough.
[06:27] <horrork> The official howTo just says multiverse
[06:27] <horrork> A total beginner will get really lost.
[06:28] <horrork> Like me... :(
[06:28] <sbalneav> horrork: Having a problem?
[06:28] <horrork> Yea, it is solved now. :D
[06:28] <bimberi> horrork: i find it hard to disagree, i think there should be at least a commented-out multiverse line for the other repos in the default sources.list
[06:29] <bimberi> ... so that it will appear in the list for us to just enable
[06:29] <sbalneav> are you editing the file directly?
[06:29] <horrork> I think it would be better if the tute can be more specify
[06:29] <sbalneav> If so, why not use the gui-method.
[06:30] <horrork> Or if there is really an option that just enables multiverse for everything just for onces.
[06:30] <sbalneav> System->Administration->Software Properties
[06:30] <horrork> Yea Ive done that
[06:31] <horrork> If I uncheck multiverse now... will it automatically uninstall sl-modem next time the auto update thing runs?
[06:31] <sbalneav> No, it shouldn't.
[06:34] <sbalneav> !seen ogra
[06:34] <ubotu> ogra is on IRC right now!
[06:34] <sbalneav> !last ogra
[06:34] <ubotu> I know nothing about last ogra - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu
[06:34] <bimberi> just to clarify, a commented out line in sources.list will mean that it will appear in the list in Synaptic and Software Properties and be enable-able
[06:34] <bimberi> !seen ogra
[06:34] <ubotu> ogra is on IRC right now!
[06:34] <bimberi> :)
[06:35] <sbalneav> Heh, the bot in my normal channel that I run, seen tells me the last thing the person said, and at what time.
[06:36] <bimberi> if Seveas was online i'd do a "Seveas ^^^^^" under that (it's his bot)
[06:58] <horrork> Ok...
[06:58] <horrork> Does anyone know how to use dial up modem??
[06:58] <horrork> I installed the driver but it doesn't dials??
[06:59] <cafuego> pppconfig
[06:59] <horrork> Is there a GUI thing that I can use?
[06:59] <horrork> I already have setup the password and everything in network tools
[07:01] <sbalneav> horrork: What kind of modem is it?
[07:02] <horrork> sl-modem I think...
[07:02] <horrork> linmodem/winmodem
[07:03] <sbalneav> Don't know anything about winmodems.  I know they need some "special" stuff to make them work since they're not a "real" modem.
[07:03] <horrork> The howto just says install the driver then dial
[07:03] <horrork> BUt how???
[07:03] <horrork> THe drive should be installed.
[07:03] <sbalneav> Which howto are you looking at>
[07:03] <sbalneav> ?
[07:04] <horrork> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DialupModemHowto
[07:05] <sbalneav> Is it a USB modem?
[07:05] <horrork> No
[07:05] <horrork> It is a built in modem.
[07:05] <horrork> To my laptop.
[07:06] <sbalneav> OK, what kind of laptop do you have?
[07:07] <sbalneav> What make/model is it?
[07:08] <sbalneav> horrork: What make/model is it?
[07:08] <horrork> HP
[07:08] <horrork> Pavilion
[07:09] <horrork> dv4000
[07:09] <horrork> dv4017AP to be exact
[07:10] <horrork> Ok gotta reboot
[07:10] <horrork> brb
[07:10] <sbalneav> sigh, gone before I could reply.
[07:11] <sbalneav> ogra: hey dude!  7:00!!! Get up already and answer my pings!!! :)
[07:19] <sbalneav> Whelp, heading to bed.
[07:19] <sbalneav> Night, all
[07:20] <horrork> I got it dialing!!!
[07:20] <horrork> So the driver works
[07:20] <horrork> But still no internet...
[07:21] <horrork> THe network monitor say that I have IP.
[07:21] <horrork> But modem monitor say it is not connected
[07:21] <horrork> And there is no internet access
[07:33] <horror1> So...
[07:33] <horror1> Can anyone help me with modem please?
[07:36] <bimberi> horror1: i can't really help sorry. As this is not really an edubuntu specific issue you could try the #ubuntu channel, which has ~770 nicks in it atm.
[07:37] <horror1> I am posting a thread on the fourms now
[07:37] <horror1> Thanks for trying to help anyway!
[07:37] <bimberi> horror1: yw :)
[08:38] <RichEd> hello all
[08:54] <RichEd> testing testing 1 2 3 ...
[08:54] <Amaranth> mic check. 1, 2. 1, 2, 3.
[08:55] <RichEd> strange behaviour from my Xchat - window stays blank until I move off and back on ... but I see the lines advance ... wierd
[08:55] <RichEd> brb
[08:56] <RichEd> ah better :)
[08:57] <Amaranth> RichEd: disabled renderaccel?
[08:58] <RichEd> no it seems to be fine now ... must have been a funny ... wasn't happening in other channels ...
[09:01] <Amaranth> weird
[09:22] <RichEd> greetz cbx33 : busy with mail to Mr Cameroon 
[10:09] <jsgotangco> nahh
[10:49] <RichEd> jsgotangco: that's on the list ... a very long list ... am hoping to get some help from The Shuttleworth Foundation on how to best present information to end users ... they are researcing that sort fo thing
[10:49] <RichEd> researching that sort of thing <-
[10:50] <RichEd> which reminds me ... i owe you some case study background re maths & science academic improvement results from IT enablement
[10:50] <RichEd> TSF may also be a good place to look
[10:59] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[11:00] <jsgotangco> i will look tonight at home
[11:06] <RichEd> no i mean for me to look :) i'll be doing some digging for you ...
[11:07] <toosa> Hi RichEd
[11:07] <RichEd> hi toosa ... just diggin up your email now about the seminar ...
[11:08] <RichEd> have you been to shippit ion the web site for CD requests ?
[11:08] <toosa> :) thank you .. 
[11:08] <RichEd> on <- ion
[11:09] <toosa> about two months ago i have tried it, and have recieved < 20 CDs
[11:10] <toosa> i forgot the exact number
[11:10] <toosa> but ...
[11:10] <RichEd> okay ... tell you what go to here to order: https://shipit.ubuntu.com/
[11:11] <toosa> i plan to order more than 100 CDs ... what do i have to do ?
[11:11] <cbx33> RichEd: my CD's came today :D
[11:11] <cbx33> thank you
[11:11] <RichEd> when you have filled in the order request, please send me the reference ... i'll need the email address you requested from
[11:12] <toosa> ok, thx a lot
[11:12] <RichEd> then i can push to marilize that the speed of delivery must be upgraded
[11:12] <toosa> i will
[11:12] <RichEd> she is based about 20 km from me ... and i can mail her or call her or chat in #canonical
[11:12] <toosa> :)
[11:13] <RichEd> please mail me a short description of the seminar to support your request ... and any web links you may have
[11:13] <RichEd> https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ for UBUNTU
[11:13] <RichEd> https://shipit.edubuntu.com/ for EDUBUNTU
[11:14] <RichEd> if you are handing out EDUBUNTU I suggest you have some UBUNTU as well ... so if you ask for 200 Edubuntu, ask for 20 Ubuntu
[11:14] <toosa> btw, you can see a little story about our 2nd InstallFest & Seminar at my blog
[11:14] <toosa> ok
[11:15] <cbx33> RichEd: do we have an ETA on the packs ?
[11:15] <cbx33> i mean in a sense that are they goign to be actively developed?
[11:16] <RichEd> toosa: tx please mail me the link ... i am multi-tasking and mail is sticky unlike IRC :)
[11:16] <RichEd> cbx33: you mean the conference packs ?
[11:16] <RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences <- toosa also look here
[11:17] <toosa> ok
[11:17] <RichEd> you may be able to get a t-shirt & stickers & leaflets ... if you do not fit the required profile exactly, please CC me in the mail request, and I will try to support you ... even if you get a smaller pack
[11:19] <RichEd> cbx33: what packs ? personal intercontinental transporter rocket packs are still under development, but conference packs are a reality
[11:19] <RichEd> back in 5 - fresh coffee in and processed coffee out
[11:22] <jsgotangco> haha
[11:23] <cbx33> RichEd: the leaflets we discussed
[11:25] <jsgotangco> see you guys later
[11:34] <RichEd> cbx33: case studies ? those are still being prepared by Marketing ... format is 90% complete ...
[11:34] <RichEd> i'm still clarifying the process for submission & approval & printing
[11:34] <RichEd> would you like an advance copy to check out ?
[11:35] <RichEd> it will give you an idea of the format & verbosity required etc.
[11:40] <cbx33> RichEd: I was talking about ESA too
[11:40] <cbx33> we were going to get that printed
[11:43] <RichEd> sorry cbx33 you'll have to refresh my memory on that one ... one too many inputs must have ejected that one: ESA stands for ? printing for distribution where ?
[11:43] <cbx33> ESA, EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
[11:44] <cbx33> on www.edubuntu.org
[11:44] <cbx33> the UsingEdubuntu lin
[11:44] <cbx33> k
[11:44] <cbx33> my intention was to get it printed to send out to schools across the country
[11:50] <RichEd> okay ... now it all comes back to me ... let me follow up with ChrisK & Malcom ... they're the marketing people with budget
[11:52] <cbx33> :D thanks RichEd 
[11:52] <cbx33> It was mentioned that if you guys couldn't afford it we could try and raise the funds ourselves
[11:52] <cbx33> I just think it's a very valuable document and that has been echoed by a few people
[11:58] <RichEd> cbx33: spent 10 mins looking for the d@mn link ... found this: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/index.html
[11:58] <cbx33> that's the one
[11:58] <cbx33> www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
[11:58] <RichEd> but there was another one /SchoolAdvocacy somewhere ... dunno why I can't find the general page
[11:58] <cbx33> SchoolAdvocacy name was dropped
[11:58] <cbx33> for marketting reasons
[11:59] <RichEd> in the past 3 weeks ? either that or I'm going (more) mental
[11:59] <cbx33> no, was changed long before that
[11:59] <cbx33> ther eis a very old version on the wiki - but the svn and drupal site versions are current
[12:00] <RichEd> so where was i browsing that had /SchoolAdvocacy or /EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy or summat loik dat
[12:00] <cbx33> the wiki
[12:02] <RichEd> cbx33: w.r.t. the pages in doc ... how do you see the hypertext version working into a hardcopy format ?
[12:02] <cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
[12:02] <cbx33> look right down the very bottom
[12:04] <RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacvy <- just found this now as you were typing and remember your mockups etc. neurons flashing all over and rebuilding old links
[12:04] <cbx33> like a product brochure
[12:05] <RichEd> tell you what cbx33 ... are you happy if we formalise this into a mini-project ?
[12:05] <cbx33> RichEd: totally
[12:05] <cbx33> that's what it was originally
[12:05] <RichEd> yourself, myself, will and Marketing
[12:05] <cbx33> definitely
[12:06] <RichEd> i'll mail you the Case Study templates now .. they fit quite closely with your mockup ... gimme 10 mins, and then i'll tell you to check your mail
[12:06] <RichEd> we can look at side by side
[12:07] <cbx33> ok thank you RichEd 
[12:07] <RichEd> Will has tuXlabs exp. We have EtienneG in Montreal Canonical Paid Support who has schools experience
[12:07] <cbx33> and I'm an IT manager in a school
[12:08] <RichEd> (yep) Add to that yourself, and myself ... and this will be a product that will fill many needs
[12:08] <cbx33> indeed
[12:08] <RichEd> If we aim 1st at schools, we can bend it to govts.
[12:08] <cbx33> hence why I originally wrote the ESA :p
[12:08] <cbx33> RichEd: totally
[12:08] <cbx33> the ESA was written for schools, with "pack" i discussed with you inmind for govn
[12:09] <RichEd> may add hedgemadge & pygi in for an opinion & review
[12:09] <RichEd> will be back here by 12:15 ... will foward mail right now for you to open
[12:09] <cbx33> ok
[12:09] <cbx33> mhz helped on the original esa with laserJock, jerome and Corey
[12:22] <cbx33> ogra: yes it does
[12:22] <cbx33> why
[12:23] <ogra> according to it my thin client uses only 38mb ... while playing a 4gig music collection from a locally attached usbdisk ...
[12:23] <ogra> so i have sound, localdev and X running ... that is theoretically not possible in 38M
[12:24] <cbx33> maybe it's being nice to you:p
[12:24] <ogra> especially not while reading a 4Gig dir 
[12:24] <ogra> (it needs to cache parts while reading the dir)
[12:24] <cbx33> hmmm
[12:24] <ogra> but well :)
[12:24] <cbx33> what's another way to check?
[12:24] <ogra> i wont complain if top desnt lie ;)
[12:24] <cbx33> hehe
[12:24] <ogra> *doesnt
[12:25] <cbx33> it has lied to me before
[12:25] <cbx33> but I can'te remember what about
[12:25] <cbx33> RichEd: mhz was working on translating ESA too
[12:25] <ogra> now if i couls get that command being run by a user ...
[12:25] <ogra> sudo mount -t unionfs -o dirs=/tmp/.1002-ltspfs:/home/ogra2/Desktop unionfs /home/ogra2/Desktop
[12:26] <ogra> then we'd not need *any* server side scripts and mounts would magically appear on ogra2's desktop 
[12:26] <ogra> but sadly it needs root :(
[12:26] <cbx33> pmount not an option?
[12:26] <ogra> nope
[12:26] <ogra> doesnt support unionfs
[12:26] <ogra> and shouldnt ...
[12:26] <cbx33> hehe as it wasn't in gisomounts case anyway
[12:27] <ogra> rodarvus, !
[12:27] <ogra> morning
[12:27] <rodarvus> good morning ogra!
[12:27] <cbx33> hi rodarvus 
[12:27] <RichEd> cool cbx33 : gimme a few more minutes ... if we can wrap an approved short punchy hardcopy version ... we can translate that many times
[12:27] <cbx33> RichEd: totally
[12:27] <rodarvus> hi cbx33!
[12:27] <cbx33> sorry, I'll be popping off home in a while
[12:28] <RichEd> and then link to web site which can be updated & translated and more verbose
[12:28] <ogra> rodarvus, probably you have an idea ....
[12:28] <cbx33> rodarvus: Jane is coming up with some good work
[12:28] <RichEd> hi rodarvus  & ogra 
[12:28] <cbx33> RichEd: indeed
[12:28] <RichEd> cbx33: how much time do you still have ? 10 mins ?
[12:28] <cbx33> yes
[12:28] <cbx33> probably 20
[12:28] <cbx33> dpeends when i get kicked out
[12:28] <ogra> rodarvus, on the thin client udev mounts new attached devices in /tmp/drives ... that dir is fuse mounted to /tmp/$UID-ltspfs on the server ...
[12:28] <RichEd> okay ... c u in 5
[12:29] <ogra> rodarvus, so the devices appear magically in /tmp/$UID-ltspfs if i plug them in
[12:29] <ogra> rodarvus, if i do the following:
[12:29] <ogra> sudo mount -t unionfs -o dirs=/tmp/.1002-ltspfs:/home/ogra2/Desktop unionfs /home/ogra2/Desktop
[12:29] <rodarvus> hi RichEd
[12:30] <ogra> the Desktop is merged with /tmp/$UID-ltspfs for ogra2
[12:30] <rodarvus> (be back in two minutes)
[12:30] <ogra> any idea how to do the unionfs mount from a users session script without suided mount ?
[12:36] <RichEd> cbx33: opening docs now
[12:36] <cbx33> ;)
[12:37] <RichEd> aargh they don't display that nicely in OOffice - as per ChrisK's comments
[12:37] <RichEd> i saw the hard copy ... looked much better ...
[12:38] <RichEd> let me open on my commercial machine next to me
[12:38] <RichEd> brb
[12:40] <rodarvus> back
[12:41] <rodarvus> let me read and undestand this talk
[12:42] <RichEd> mmmm cbx33 to use the local ZA vernacular, looks kak in both OOffice & MSOffice
[12:42] <RichEd> i'll ask ChrisK to request a PDF copy from his layout artist
[12:42] <cbx33> ok
[12:42] <RichEd> so we can see the full background image impact
[12:45] <rodarvus> ogra, I don't think this can be done without root privileges
[12:45] <rodarvus> my suggestion would be to add little privileges in /etc/sudoers (meaning: they can only run one *very specific* command as root)
[12:47] <cbx33> RichEd: I'm gonna be off in like 5 mins
[12:48] <cbx33> you'll be bale to catch me later on 
[12:48] <RichEd> okay cbx33 - you disappeared for a bit - i will put Will ven der Leij onto this as a project task. we'll see it all the way through. resume on Monday.
[12:48] <RichEd> i'll mail you & corey & will to kick off.
[12:49] <cbx33> sounds good to me
[12:51] <RichEd> busy chatting to head office re PDF now ... chris is on a paraffin budgie now to the US (which will hopefully not explode) ... plan B being discusses
[12:52] <RichEd> discussed <- discusses
[12:52] <RichEd> check email for progress. later. have a good one.
[12:53] <ogra> rodarvus, uuuh ...
[12:53] <ogra> i dont think tweaking sudoers will make pitti happy :)
[01:12] <rodarvus> ogra, yeah, I share this opinion with you :)
[01:13] <ogra> rodarvus, did you chaneg the postinst of xorg ? it seems setting the colordepth with a preseed value isnt possible anymore
[01:14] <ogra> oh, no its a bug in the script ...
[01:14] <rodarvus> :)
[01:14] <ogra> grmmbl
[01:14] <ogra> bashism and i cant solve it
[01:44] <sbalneav> Morning!
[01:44] <sbalneav> ogra: ping...
[01:44] <JanisLee> hi
[01:45] <sbalneav> hello JanisLee 
[01:47] <ogra> sbalneav, pong
[01:47] <ogra> morning 
[01:47] <sbalneav> hey!
[01:48] <sbalneav> check prov msg
[01:48] <sbalneav> err, priv
[02:20] <pygi> ogra, poke
[02:26] <pygi> ogra, poke again :)
[02:29] <pygi> ogra, i've got someone from debian interested;)
[02:29] <ogra> in what ? 
[02:30] <pygi> the future? libburn :)
[02:30] <ogra> ah :)
[02:30] <ogra> nice :)
[02:30] <pygi> :)
[02:30] <pygi> now if I could only fix this movie sending over Dbus, that would be great :)
[02:31] <ogra> lol
[02:31] <ogra>  movie sending over Dbus ?
[02:31] <ogra> youre joking, right ? 
[02:31] <ogra> or do you really try to abuse debus for such amounts of data ?
[02:31] <ogra> *dbus
[02:32] <ogra> meh, my localdevic implementation wont work :(((
[02:33] <ogra> *device
[02:34] <ogra> eporting the dir where i mount the devices on the client wil limit the disksize of the mount to the free mem of the client ... 
[02:35] <ogra> *exporting
[02:35] <ogra> so my 80Gig disk appears as 50M disk :/
[02:37] <pygi> ogra, hehe :)
[02:37] <pygi> joking ofcourse ^_^
[02:56] <sbalneav> Morning!
[02:56] <sbalneav> again :)
[02:56] <ogra> heh
[03:51] <bddebian> Heya
[03:52] <RichEd> hi bddebian 
[03:52] <bddebian> Hi RichEd
[03:54] <RichEd> seein as it is so quiet in here, can i ask a semi-off topic evolution PGP question ... just a quickie to clear up some ambiguity on an ubuntu forum post ?
[03:55] <RichEd> the forum says post User ID details into evolution PGP security page ... surely I post Key ID details ??
[03:55] <bddebian> You can ask but I won't be able to help you with evolution most likely :-(
[03:57] <RichEd> did you see the question ? more PGP rather than evolution
[03:58] <bddebian> What exactly is it asking for?
[03:59] <RichEd> input prompt says KeyID ... would rather go with that than external advice page ... no ?
[03:59] <cbx33> hi RichEd 
[03:59] <ogra> Caraibes, yay, nice to hear :)
[04:00] <Caraibes> kids = 2 & 4
[04:00] <cbx33> Caraibes, :D
[04:00] <RichEd> Caraibes: have you got a moment to send me an email expressing your delight ?
[04:00] <Caraibes> so thanks to the comunity !
[04:00] <RichEd> what you want it for and how good a job it is doing ?
[04:00] <cbx33> RichEd, did we have anything else left to discuss?
[04:01] <Caraibes> sure
[04:01] <RichEd> cbx33: all done for now ... will catch up with you on monday ... creating task for will to manage.
[04:01] <RichEd> Caraibes:  nothing formal ... just some off the top of your head text comments ?
[04:01] <cbx33> RichEd, ok cool, just thought I'd check in
[04:02] <Caraibes> ok, doing it right now...
[04:02] <RichEd> Caraibes:  i'm just looking to find out *what audience the current feature set works for* and then push for more adoption there
[04:03] <RichEd> home use is great, kids use is great ... lots of those sort of potential users ... also cost saving on licence for home user & old work equipment etc.
[04:05] <RichEd> cbx33: can I send my first PGP encrypted email from evolution to you and get a reply to see if it all works ?
[04:05] <cbx33> sure
[04:05] <cbx33> you have my key I take it
[04:09] <RichEd> nope not yet will check for it at http://pgp.mit.edu
[04:09] <cbx33> ok
[04:10] <cbx33> RichEd, what is your emai laddy
[04:10] <cbx33> which you have your key for
[04:10] <Caraibes> hey RichEd :
[04:10] <RichEd> found your hotmail one ... presume that is you ?
[04:10] <Caraibes> Well, here's the story :
[04:10] <cbx33> I'll send you a message too encrypted 
[04:10] <Caraibes> I am a GNU/linux aficionado, and I also happen to have 2 little boys, 2 & 4 years old. I just realised that the eldest seems to take interest in computers, so I downloaded and installed Edubuntu 6.06.1 (brand new from yesterday), and installed it on one of my little internet-caf's PC's (dual-boot, because of the customers, but I personally don't use windows).
[04:10] <Caraibes> I made sure to add "Childsplay" to the games, since my kids enjoy it. There's "the potato guy", "Tux Paint", and the layout seems to be appealing for children. So I am very happy with it, and plan to install it on more PC's.
[04:10] <Caraibes> I realised my install in spanish, since we are in Dominican Republic, and this is the language the kids use at Kindergarten.
[04:10] <Caraibes> That's about it...
[04:10] <Caraibes> I want to thank the folks behind that project, because it is much apreciated !
[04:10] <cbx33> RichEd, use petesavage@ubuntu.com
[04:10] <cbx33> that should have one
[04:11] <RichEd> lovely Caraibes :) can you send it in an email to richard.edubuntu@gmail.com
[04:11] <Caraibes> ok
[04:11] <RichEd> okay cbx33 : i looked for peter
[04:11] <Caraibes> if ou need more, ask me !
[04:11] <cbx33> hehe ok
[04:12] <RichEd> that's more than fine ... language feature as well ! ... all very nice
[04:13] <RichEd> Caraibes: and if a 2 & 4 year old can use linux, why are so many 30 year old IT Technical people afraid ? :)
[04:13] <Caraibes> if you know more material to learn how to read & write for small kids... let me know...
[04:13] <Caraibes> that's me !
[04:13] <Caraibes> but I am not afraid since 2 years  8-) 
[04:15] <RichEd> cbx33: no pete savage @ ubuntu at http://pgp.mit.edu
[04:15] <cbx33> oh
[04:16] <cbx33> ogra, what's the keyserver you use
[04:16] <cbx33> mine.nl
[04:16] <RichEd> is the hotmail one you ?
[04:16] <cbx33> ?
[04:16] <cbx33> node50@hotmail.com - but I'm not gpg enabled there
[04:16] <cbx33> petesavage@ubuntu.com is
[04:17] <cbx33> sent one to you
[04:17] <RichEd> okay ... ta
[04:17] <cbx33> goto the command line and type    gpg -recv-keys A5B281DF 
[04:17] <cbx33> that should get my key
[04:17] <ogra> keyserver.mine.nu
[04:18] <cbx33> that's the one
[04:19] <RichEd> got the mail ... but please resend ... finger / memory trouble on passphrase
[04:20] <cbx33> hehe ok
[04:21] <cbx33> done
[04:21] <RichEd> sorted ! thanks reply on its way
[04:23] <cbx33> you're in business
[04:24] <RichEd> thanks for help !
[04:37] <cbx33> RichEd, np
[04:37] <jomolina> alguien que hable espaol????
[04:37] <jomolina> Hola buenos das Alguien que hable Espaol
[04:38] <jomolina> necesito ayuda!
[04:38] <cbx33> Is that, is there anyone who speaks spanish, I need help?
[04:40] <jomolina> I need help, but my english is very bad, I speak Espaol, 
[04:40] <cbx33> My spanish is non existant
[04:40] <cbx33> but I can try to help
[04:40] <jomolina> ok cbx33
[04:43] <sbalneav> ogra: you there, o-dog?
[04:44] <Caraibes> Aqui si hablamos espaol !
[04:45] <Caraibes> pero los demas hablan ingls !
[04:56] <ogra> sbalneav, yup
[04:56] <sbalneav> ok.
[04:56] <sbalneav> I've been doing some reading, and I think this is totally solvable
[04:57] <ogra> how ?
[04:57] <sbalneav> want to discuss it here, or in mesg?
[04:57] <ogra> as you like :)
[04:57] <sbalneav> up to you, just didn't want to flood channel with mumbo-jumbo.
[04:58] <sbalneav> we'll do it here.
[04:58] <ogra> well, its edubuntu development :)
[04:58] <sbalneav> ok, here's the plan:
[04:59] <sbalneav> on the add_fstab and remove_fstab:
[04:59] <sbalneav> what we don't want to do is the mount there: because ltspfsd has the built in automounter, that will handle unmounting idle media.
[04:59] <ogra> ok
[05:00] <sbalneav> So, rather than mounting, and that point, we send a command back up to the server through the ssh tunnel
[05:00] <sbalneav> to ltspfs mount the dir that's been added.
[05:00] <ogra> since sync mounting seems to be quite stable in 2.6.16 i thought we could just use that
[05:00] <ogra> but since we need the notification system anyway, it doesnt matter
[05:00] <sbalneav> right.
[05:01] <sbalneav> And since we've got that nice existing ssh tunnel to route commands over, this is a piece of cake
[05:01] <ogra> so how do we send the command through the tunnel ? 
[05:01] <ogra> we cant use a port
[05:01] <sbalneav> see, in "stock" ltsp, we don't HAVE that, so thats why we have lbus.
[05:03] <ogra> ldm wouldnt know which port is avalable on the server while it initiates the ssh connection
[05:03] <sbalneav> right, but at this point, you've alread established the connection, and ssh has that fancy bit that allows you to send commands over an already established port, yes?
[05:04] <ogra> how ? 
[05:04] <sbalneav> What's the option for that....
[05:04] <sbalneav> Man, I've seen it.  We talked about it 2 dev confs ago.
[05:04] <ogra> i only know that you can establish multiple tunnels through one connection by giving multiple ports to the ssh command ...
[05:05] <sbalneav> hmmm, gimme 2 shakes to look this up...
[05:05] <ogra> but i have no idea how to connect to an established connection on a ssh level
[05:05] <ogra> i know it should be possible through X
[05:06] <sbalneav> http://www.revsys.com/writings/quicktips/ssh-faster-connections.html
[05:07] <sbalneav> ControlMaster's the ticket.
[05:08] <sbalneav> and http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/290
[05:08] <sbalneav> We've got the ssh connection esatblished, we can just jam the ltspfs mount commands down it.
[05:08] <sbalneav> Easy like pie.
[05:09] <sbalneav> I'll hack it up when I get home.
[05:09] <sbalneav> This will actually be EASIER than what stock ltsp has to do with lbus.
[05:14] <sbalneav> whoops
[05:14] <sbalneav> s/ect's/ects/
[05:15] <ogra> i am
[05:15] <ogra> we'll likely need to store the username somewhere 
[05:16] <sbalneav> Sure, but since YOU wrote LDM, that should be a cakewalk :)
[05:16] <sbalneav> actually, we probably don't need to store the username
[05:17] <sbalneav> you could set control master to just /tmp/%h:%p
[05:17] <sbalneav> since there will only be one user on the terminal
[05:17] <sbalneav> I think that's just to name the socket in an intelligent way.
[05:17] <ogra> there is only root on the terminal indeed
[05:18] <sbalneav> easy as pie.
[05:27] <ogra> ok, works ...
[05:31] <sbalneav> see?
[05:31] <ogra> sbalneav, wow, thast really cool
[05:31] <ogra> and doesnt need any username :)
[05:31] <sbalneav> There are no problems, only solutions :)
[05:32] <maccam94> is there a way to quickly create hundreds of users?
[05:33] <sbalneav> maccam94: heh, sure.
[05:33] <sbalneav> Do you have a list of them?
[05:33] <maccam94> well probably in some form of database
[05:33] <sbalneav> Can you shell script?
[05:34] <maccam94> I can... to a degree.
[05:34] <sbalneav> really, all you need to do is just call adduser command
[05:35] <sbalneav> adduser --home DIR --shell SHELL etc.
[05:35] <maccam94> Is there a way to feed a large list of users into it at once, and set them all with the same groups?
[05:35] <sbalneav> no, but a simple shell for loop will do that.
[05:36] <sbalneav> Have you already got the usernames decided, or do you just have firstname and lastname and need to generate the username?
[05:36] <maccam94> Ok, well the other thing is that it's a list of Full Names, not user names
[05:36] <maccam94> yeah
[05:36] <maccam94> i havec to generate the username
[05:36] <maccam94> and random passwords
[05:36] <ogra> sbalneav, yay, works wonderful ... and we can even do it from the udev script i think ;)
[05:36] <sbalneav> What standard do you use?
[05:36] <sbalneav> Scott Balneaves = sbalneav?
[05:37] <sbalneav> ogra: exactly.
[05:37] <maccam94> well probably something like that yeah
[05:38] <maccam94> something would have to be done to resolve dupes though...
[05:38] <sbalneav> maccam94: gimme a couple of minutes, I'll code you up a quick example, you can go from there.
[05:38] <maccam94> 400 users, there'll probably be at least a few people with the same first initial and last name
[05:39] <maccam94> ok
[05:49] <sbalneav> maccam94: What's yer email.
[05:50] <jsgotangco> yo!
[05:50] <maccam94> maccam94@gmail.com
[05:50] <sbalneav> yo yo!
[05:51] <maccam94> :-P
[05:51] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:54] <sbalneav> k, sent it.
[05:54] <sbalneav> It's not complete, but it's enough to get you started.
[05:55] <cbx33> hey jsgotangco 
[05:55] <sbalneav> It creates the userid from the firstname lastname pair, and generates the appropriate adduser commandline.
[05:58] <maccam94> ok
[05:58] <sbalneav> Do you administer a large Linux site?
[05:59] <maccam94> well i'm designing a proposal to replace a school's windows setup with edubuntu
[05:59] <cbx33> maccam94, good on you :p
[06:00] <sbalneav> If you're a sysadmin, picking "Learning BASH" from O'Reilly books is a VERY worthwhile investment.  Spending an hour a day learning a bit of shell scripting will save 10x the amount of drudgework down the road :)
[06:00] <maccam94> yeah i've been looking into shell scripting for a while, I really like it
[06:00] <maccam94> i use gentoo on my desktop personally
[06:00] <maccam94> but i think something like edubuntu is much more normal-people speed and would be much better at school
[06:01] <maccam94> not to mention that it would fix many long standing problems
[06:01] <sbalneav> Absolutely.
[06:01] <maccam94> 700 windows xp machines with one sys admin is a recipe for disaster
[06:01] <cbx33> maccam94, totally agree with you
[06:02] <sbalneav> 700 machines with one admin?  Yikes.
[06:02] <maccam94> yeah
[06:02] <sbalneav> The standard metric is one MCSE per 30-40 machines.
[06:02] <maccam94> sometimes he gets extra network people in to help set up new equipment
[06:02] <sbalneav> so they should have like a staff of 15 at least.
[06:03] <maccam94> but he's the only guy who manages things full time really
[06:03] <maccam94> it's a public high school
[06:03] <maccam94> there's no way that's in the budget ;-)
[06:04] <maccam94> I bet that setting up edubuntu would make life much easier for the guy. he'd be able to automate almost everything, and security would no longer be a major issue
[06:04] <maccam94> just set up all the student accounts without wheel priveliges
[06:05] <maccam94> hmmm... actually maybe setting up /etc to be on the server wouldn't be a bad idea either...
[06:43] <cbx33> hi LaserJock 
[06:43] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[06:45] <LaserJock> hi guys
[06:46] <cbx33> howz it going
[06:47] <LaserJock> good, got another MOTU School session in 10 min.
[06:48] <cbx33> eeek
[06:49] <pygi> LaserJock, what are we learning today? :)
[06:50] <LaserJock> packaging basics
[06:50] <Amaranth> i should totally go to that one
[06:51] <Amaranth> LaserJock: it's not going to be 3 hours long, is it?
[06:51] <Amaranth> the last MOTU School session i attended was _long_
[06:52] <LaserJock> it was 2 hr last night :/
[07:14] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: hehe, coming to another session? ;-)
[07:20] <ogra> sbalneav, got it running
[07:20] <ogra> with a 15 line server sided shellscript ;)
[07:21] <ogra> executed from the udev script :)
[07:28] <Amaranth> ogra: what package should i steal from to figure out how to create an /etc/willowng/training.db file but not overwrite it on upgrade?
[07:31] <ogra> hmm
[07:32] <ogra> make it a conffile ?
[07:33] <Amaranth> won't it ask on every upgrade if you want to keep your version?
[07:33] <ogra> it wont be touched by the package then, but you cant change the contents of it in the package, if both files changed, then the user gets a prompt on upgrades
[07:33] <Amaranth> and show a worthless binary diff
[07:33] <ogra> no, it will only ask if both chnaged
[07:33] <Amaranth> ok
[07:33] <ogra> (at least it should)
[07:34] <Amaranth> so if i preload a training.db with good/bad domains and content, add /etc/willowng/training.db to debian/conffiles, and never change training.db in the package again, they won't be bothered about it on upgrade if they add more training on their own?
[07:35] <Amaranth> after that i can use postinst scripts to add things to the DB without killing it
[07:40] <ogra> yep
[07:40] <Amaranth> awesome
[07:40] <ogra> but you cant change it in the package anymore
[07:41] <Amaranth> not even with a script that uses sqlite in postinst?
[07:41] <ogra> postinst should be fine
[07:42] <Amaranth> i think i'm going to have an "update-database" script that reads a file and does it's magic
[07:42] <ogra> sounds good
[07:44] <Amaranth> i'll just have to work a little extra magic to make sure i don't overtrain the classifier if someone does a bunch of reinstalls
[07:47] <sbalneav> ogra: back from lunch
[07:47] <sbalneav> tarball me your stuff, when you get a moment!
[07:47] <ogra> will do
[07:47] <sbalneav> That way I can play with it tonight
[07:47] <ogra> its not perfect yet 
[07:47] <ogra> but its basically working
[07:48] <sbalneav> Well, all we need is a little spit-n-polish.
[07:48] <sbalneav> we can iron that out this weekend.
[07:48] <ogra> that we have ot have DISPLAY set for ltspfs is somewhat disturbing 
[07:48] <ogra> and i cant convince ltspfsd to do the mounting 
[07:48] <sbalneav> ogra: well, we can fix that.
[07:48] <ogra> i still need the mount command 
[07:48] <ogra> is there any special magic i'm missing ?
[07:49] <ogra> (i'm not using /tmp/fstab btw)
[07:49] <sbalneav> prolly.  You need an /sbin/ltspfs_[u] mount script
[07:49] <ogra> oh, on the client ? 
[07:50] <sbalneav> *_mount looks like:
[07:50] <sbalneav> #!/bin/sh
[07:50] <sbalneav> /bin/mount $1
[07:50] <sbalneav> yep
[07:50] <ogra> heh
[07:50] <ogra> and umount is the same i guess
[07:50] <sbalneav> I'll leave it to your imagination what the umount is :)
[07:50] <ogra> do you need the -l flag ? 
[07:50] <sbalneav> no, don't need it.
[07:50] <ogra> ok
[07:51] <sbalneav> because ltspfs detects when theres no activty, and does a clean unmount.
[07:51] <sbalneav> it's a beautiful thing.
[07:51] <ogra> i wonder how we shoud handle device labels with spaces
[07:51] <ogra> hmm
[07:52] <sbalneav> there's a DEVICE_LABEL_SAFE tag that udev creates... hold on... I'll tell you what it is
[07:52] <ogra> i have that scripts
[07:52] <ogra> hehe
[07:52] <sbalneav> ID_FS_LABEL_SAFE
[07:52] <ogra> i copied ltspfs_mount from the wiki ... indeed it uses /tmp/fstab :)
[07:53] <sbalneav> see, we wuz so smart we thought this all out already :)
[07:53] <sbalneav> we just FORGOT we solved this problem :)
[07:55] <ogra> WOW
[07:55] <ogra> IT WORKS !!
[07:55] <sbalneav> we're good.
[07:55] <ogra> youre good !
[07:55] <sbalneav> pshaw
[07:56] <sbalneav> See?  Didn't I say this was gonna be easy? :)
[07:58] <sbalneav> ssh -S for the win!
[07:59] <ogra> yeah
[07:59] <sbalneav> See the whole lbus thing for us is there because other than the xdmcp connection, we've got no stateful connection between the terminal and the server.
[08:00] <sbalneav> So, we'd either have had to come up with something that used properties and xatoms, (which would have been more "proper", but way grosser)...
[08:00] <sbalneav> OR come up with our own little diddly bit, until network aware dbus comes along.
[08:00] <sbalneav> lbus is our diddly bit.
[08:01] <sbalneav> YOU don't need it because you've already GOT the stateful connection: the ssh tunnel.
[08:01] <sbalneav> it's perfect.
[08:02] <ogra> ha
[08:02] <ogra> and it unmounts correctly now :)
[08:02] <ogra> perfect
[08:03] <ogra> now how to trick nautilus to have a bookmark and the right icon ...
[08:03] <ogra> sadly ~/gtk-bookmars doesnt accept .desktop files 
[08:03] <ogra> *bookmarks
[08:04] <sbalneav> What was the bug we came up with in Nautilus that we needed to get fixed... I think we documented it on the localdev spec....
[08:04] <ogra> its not for us ...
[08:04] <ogra> that wuld require that we have write access to /media and g-v-m recognizes it as a real device
[08:04] <ogra> we'll have to mount it anywhere else :/
[08:05] <ogra> or to rebuild pmount
[08:08] <sbalneav> When's the next motu-school?  I should attend
[10:02] <sbalneav> ogra: still there?
[10:03] <LaserJock> sbalneav: did you catch any of that session?
[10:05] <sbalneav> LaserJock: I sure did, thanks!
[10:06] <LaserJock> sbalneav: cool
[10:48] <sbalneav> ogra: Heading home for the day.  Please remember to email me toys!!!!
[10:48] <sbalneav> bye all
[10:49] <pygi> ogra, what would you say if all cdrecord-enabled applications would work without having cdrecord installed? :)