sabdflBurgwork: yer welcome, though the fix is still in review :-)12:08
Keybukbluefoxicy: that won't make any difference12:08
Keybuk(opening and closing apps)12:08
bluefoxicyKeybuk:  if you close an application that is taking a lot of ram, and suddenly 400 megs of ram are freed, how much ram was that application using?12:10
bluefoxicy(for colloquial definition of "using")12:10
Keybukbluefoxicy: unknown12:11
Hobbseemorning all12:11
Keybukyou certainly can't tell by measuing how much the kernel gave back12:11
Keybukfor all you know, the kernel chose to flush a bunch of page cache at that moment too12:12
SurakHobbsee: night :-)12:12
bluefoxicypossibly, but not correlative.12:12
bluefoxicyalso page cache only gets flushed under memory pressure12:12
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bluefoxicybesides, there's no other good way to measure memory usage12:13
bluefoxicyRES doesn't count swap; VMEM counts mmap()'d and other COW pages that haven't yet been written to; and shared counts stuff that may be shared by a process and itself exactly.12:14
Keybukthere is no way to measure memory usage, because memory usage does not make sense12:14
Keybukwe can only talk about mythical values12:15
dokomdz: pitti was faster with the glibc upload12:15
bluefoxicyfair enough12:15
Keybukfor example, we could say how much memory evolution would use if that was the only binary running on the system12:15
bluefoxicybut at the same time we can create trends in said values.12:15
bluefoxicywhich have a physical effect.12:15
bluefoxicyyou don't need to quantify things 1:1 when you do analysis like this.12:15
zygabluefoxicy: you know...12:16
Keybukif you really car12:16
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Keybukevolution uses roughly the amount of memory needed to hold the headers of every message that need to go in the list12:16
Keybukit's high12:16
Keybukbut it's not 600MB12:16
Keybukit's around 80MB12:17
zygabluefoxicy: do this, log each allocation via .alloc/free/realloc and check out how memory is actually being used, looking at number of pages allocated really doen't tell the whole story12:17
Keybukzyga: that's not necessarily telling either, sadly12:18
Keybukfree doesn't return memory to the kernel, remember12:18
bluefoxicyfor example, I'm going to take the security+ exam soon; the pretest had 30 questions and I got 83%, mastery was 70%; I finished approximately 47% above passing.  Someone told me the test will have about 80 questions; I'm estimating a 20% variance, so I should finish with 38-56% above passing.12:18
zygaKeybuk: yes, that's why I recommend that12:18
Keybukan application using malloc/free badly can be "holding" far more memory than it should12:18
zygait tell's the story of the memory needs of the app12:18
bluefoxicythe numbers say I'm likely to pass; they also say I could study operational security and probably pass with a higher score12:18
zyganot the memory flow between userspace and the kernel12:18
bluefoxicyBut as you say, mythical numbers that mean nothing right?  :)12:18
bluefoxicyKeybuk:  and you're right.12:19
Keybukbluefoxicy: uhh, that's completely irrelevant12:19
zygaKeybuk: I am well aware of all that, it's just a better number than rss12:19
bluefoxicyevo may have [10M]  .............................................[1 byte]  and hold a bunch of unused memory12:19
Keybukit would only be relevant if your score was based on the number of questions you answered differently to anyone else in the room12:19
bluefoxicyKeybuk:  I was illustrating "mythical numbers" having a real point and being useful.12:19
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Keybukso if your test was scored on the number of questions you answered uniquely and correctly *then* it would be a useful comparison :p12:19
zygabluefoxicy: or maybe run valgrind tru the app you want, find a leak!12:19
bluefoxicyKeybuk:  "obviously" i can make no assumptions as to what my score will be; I could very well fail horribly.  But I can say what is likely the case.12:20
Keybukbecause then the people that answered all the questions right could still fail, because their unique answers were fewer than anyone else12:20
Keybukat that point, you get to the complexity of discussing memory usage on Linux12:20
bluefoxicythat changes the problem.12:20
Keybukevolution's primary memory usage problems are12:21
Keybuka) a large stack of (shared) dependencies12:21
bluefoxicyzyga:  valgrind is noisy; it'd be nice if I could actually produce a map of "there are leaks here, this is the percentage that we find to be leaking" and send it to the devs12:21
Keybukb) a high portion of memory not returned to the kernel12:21
KeybukI doubt it has a single "leak"12:21
zygabluefoxicy: valgrind is not noisy but I will not speak of it further12:21
zygabluefoxicy: (just a note that not all memory is freed, ever, before the process exits so valgrind is far from perfect)12:22
Keybukzyga: valgrind usually doesn't mind provided the app has a pointer on it12:22
Keybukit can cope with that12:22
Keybukthough it doesn't cope with you not bothering to free something because you know the app is exiting, even though the pointer will be lost before the end of main12:23
Keybukbut then if you're running under valgrind, the actual termination isn't useful12:23
Keybukprovided you don't lose hold of the pointers during ordinary use, you don't have a leak12:23
zygaKeybuk: true12:23
Keybukyou may, of course, be holding onto pointers you don't need12:24
zygathis reminds me of the multitude of the 'library valgrind behaviour' files valgrind comes with12:24
KeybukI read an interesting paper the other day12:24
Keybukparsing config files, etc.12:24
zygaso that stuff that's 'tricky' yet right is not messing the output, I wonder how that stuff is created12:24
Keybukthe WRONG way to do this is to try and use fgets and dynamic allocation to cope with arbitrary length lines12:25
Keybukeven using realloc on a static pointer is bad, as you'll end up littering memory12:25
bluefoxicyzyga:  I used valgrind a long time ago, every time memory leaked it cried about it, instead of being summerical.12:25
Keybukthe RIGHT way, which for some reason everyone is scared of, is just to mmap() the config file and treat it as a big string12:25
zygabluefoxicy: try reading the very few last lines next time12:25
bluefoxicyI'm the kind of guy that does an strace -c :)12:25
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zygaKeybuk: then we hit mmap issues but I agree mmap is the right way to let the kernel manage your memory needs12:26
bluefoxicysigh.  I need help with the shell, what the hell.12:26
zygathen again unless you are parsing bazillion config files it not that of an issue12:26
bluefoxicyDoes anyone know how to filter characters12:26
Keybukmmap issues?12:27
Keybukbluefoxicy: -v12:27
=== bluefoxicy wants to turn "110K" and "990M" into "110" and "990"
bluefoxicywhy am I doing this12:27
Keybuk| sed -e "s/[A-Z] $//"12:27
bluefoxicythis is stupid12:27
=== bluefoxicy rtfm du dammit.
zygaKeybuk: yes, it's sometimes problematic with regards to porting and not being 'always works' kind of stuff12:27
Keybuk${%[A-Z] }12:27
Keybukie FOO=100K12:27
Keybukecho ${FOO%[A-Z] }12:27
Keybukzyga: *shrug*  all the world is Linux ... it's so much easier to code for12:28
zyga(you usually need to take care of the part when it fails to be 100% sure)12:28
KeybukI think too much time is wasted supporting 20 year old versions of AIX12:28
zygaKeybuk: nah  - all the world is the stuff I want to code for12:28
zygabut that's getting more than just linux :)12:28
Keybukor, at least, all the world is POSIX12:28
bluefoxicybluefox@icebox:~/programming/vuln/printf$ j=0; for i in $(du -s $(find /usr/lib/openoffice/program/ -name \*.so) | awk '{print $1}'); do j=$(( $i + $j )); done; echo $j12:29
zygaKeybuk: but then you miss windows and that huts in lots of places12:29
bluefoxicywow openoffice.org mmap()s 100 megs of libraries.12:29
Keybukzyga: I don't care about windows12:29
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Keybukbluefoxicy: ah, now, if you want to discuss bloat ... I have no problem with you targetting OpenOffice12:29
Keybukmost of those libraries are private too12:29
zygaKeybuk: as I said, in some places12:29
Keybukso not only do you have a whole bunch of lard mapped in12:29
bluefoxicyKeybuk:  and there's one real soffice.bin12:29
Keybukbut then you have all those dirty plts over the top!12:29
bluefoxicyKeybuk:  I know, this is fucking stupid.12:29
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Keybuk"Why OpenOffice.org is slow"12:30
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bluefoxicythe dynamic linker is like AHHH GOD AHHHH MUST RELOCATE MAP RESOLVES SYMBOLS AHHHHHH12:30
bluefoxicyKeybuk:  OOo is also slow because it uses C++12:30
=== zyga wonders why the developers decided to do it this way
bluefoxicyKeybuk:  but, again, it is slow because the linker has 30 times more symbols to deal with from the crap C++ adds to the symbol table :P12:30
bluefoxicyso if all those libraries were built into the main executable, the problem would again go away.12:30
Keybukzyga: "portability" oddly enough12:31
zygabluefoxicy: hint, c++ has symbol hiding now12:31
bluefoxicyzyga:  this doesn't mean developers use it.12:31
zygaKeybuk: portablility across software platforms often sucks, ack12:31
bluefoxicyyou have to explicitly declare symbols as hidden; or set the default behavior to hidden and explicitly set visible symbols to default.12:31
zygabluefoxicy: are you sure...?12:32
bluefoxicyzyga:  we do have one nice thing here though.12:32
bluefoxicyMichael Meeks has been trying to take the from-the-side approach12:32
bluefoxicyand we got some very nice things out of it (even if the RHAT guys are boning him and trying to steal the credit)12:32
Keybuk*shrug* he's an idiot12:32
Keybukif they just built the fucking thing properly in the first place, they wouldn't have this problem12:32
Suraknight all12:32
Keybuk"Doctor, it hurts when I do this"12:33
bluefoxicyzyga:  Im sure about the symbol hiding thing.. it's __attribute__ __(("hidden"))__ or some such crazy syntax12:33
bluefoxicyKeybuk:  who, Meeks?12:33
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Keybukthat's the C syntax, certainly12:33
bluefoxicythe stuff he's doing would give a gain even with properly hidden symbols; it just makes the linker do less work with what it has to do12:34
zygabluefoxicy: AFAIR there was some 'smart' hiding by default so the load on the linker is comparable to that of C12:34
bluefoxicyzyga:  ah, nice.12:34
bluefoxicyzyga:  I am more interested in -Bdirect binding to eliminate vague linkage where possible; but drepper despises the very idea12:34
Keybukyes, but if OO.o was built properly in the first place, they wouldn't need to be mucking around with the linker12:34
Keybukyeah, I agree with Ulrich here, I'm afraid12:34
Keybukit's taking a chainsaw to the linker because you happen to have dropped it off a cliff12:35
Keybukit's far easier if people just don't break it in the first place12:35
bluefoxicyKeybuk:  if OOo was built properly in the first place, mucking the linker would reduce the load time from 1 second to 0.1 second instead of from 12 seconds to 5 seconds12:35
zygaI'm off 12:35
bluefoxicyalso direct binding makes the linker skip searching spaces "we know" it won't find a symbol in12:36
zygathis kind of talking does nothing positive to oo. :)12:36
bluefoxicyi.e. it makes it not look in the toilet for a floppy disk :P12:36
zygaI look forward to edgy and to being here again12:36
zygatake care and good night12:36
bluefoxicyzyga: heh, later man.12:36
elmowhere's logmsg() meant to come from in perl?12:36
bluefoxicyKeybuk:  btw, they did put precomputed hashes and symbol/hash sorting into the mainline binutils, 50% speed boost :)12:37
bluefoxicyI'm hoping edgy+1 will use that, by backport patch or appropriate upstream version12:38
bluefoxicy-Bdirect is a slight mess now12:38
bluefoxicyit'd create some junk that would get deprecated eventually, so I'm not going to advocate that12:38
sladenbluefoxicy: plugging routers into a switch is normally practice, it allows [amongst other things]  (a) monitoring of ports (b) running the router port trunks == breaking out lots more "ports" (c) detecting failures (d) dynamically "re-routeing" at level 2 when things go wrong [eg. an abstraction layer] 12:38
bluefoxicysladen: router -> switch (connected to a subnet full of hosts) -> other router?12:39
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bluefoxicysladen:  assuming the default gateway leads to a specific point; and the next subnet has a default gateway leading back to that point; as your network grows, the load on any given router link is going to grow to n^x load, where (n) is the number of subnets behind that router port (including its local subnet) and (x) is the number of hosts per subnet12:41
bluefoxicyno sorry x^n12:42
bluefoxicyanyway. if you do router<->router, you can lower the value significantly; isolate the default path; and often approach n^1, linear growth instead of polynomial12:43
bluefoxicyyou can hook the routers to eachother in a mesh form and get (c) and (d) (this is what routing protocols are for)12:43
sladenI don't quite follow, but yes, if the packet goes in, then out of the same port on the router, the link will be running at 2x (really not a problem given that it's going to be a non-blocking link and the packets are going in opposite directions)12:44
bluefoxicymonitoring of ports.. no comment.  The only thought I can come up with is "plug a passive IDS inbetween" which sounds like "add excess hardware" although it wouldn't be particularly bad12:44
bluefoxicysladen:  I'm saying the dedicated link between subnet A and the internet (which is where default routes "usually" take you) will also carry ALL of subnet B's traffic; if there is another subnet C on the other side of the default gateway for subnet A, then we've now loaded bandwidth on our link between A and C12:46
sladenand how do you detect when the IDS goes tits up?...12:46
sladentransparent anythings are generally a bad idea12:46
bluefoxicyif you hook the two routers together, then we've loaded bandwidth between them and to the Internet and whatever; but connection to networks that AREN'T experiencing a network storm are going to be just fine.12:47
bluefoxicyTypically an IDS is connected to a monitoring station12:47
bluefoxicywhich may or may not be part of your core network12:47
bluefoxicy(i.e. it can't talk through the IDS and might not be connected to anything else; this is perfectly fine)12:47
bluefoxicyand it'll say "HOLY CRAP IDS DIED!"12:47
bluefoxicyyou could even have multiple IDSes and a separate network backbone in between them, in theory; but this is blah.12:48
sladen(no doubt running Windows and connected to a switch port hanging of the other side of the router ...)12:48
bluefoxicyswitch->span port->IDS<->Monitor station12:48
bluefoxicyis the normal configuration12:48
=== sladen just grins
bluefoxicymost people stick them after the point of presence and before the routing infrastructure starts to branch12:49
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bluefoxicyor if you have a BIG network you stick multiple ones around on different network segments since one won't handle the massive load12:49
bluefoxicywhen I did it the monitor station was plugged into the IDS directly because we didn't want people hacking into it12:50
bluefoxicythey hacked the CEO's desktop instead, after stealing our router using SNMP to make configuration changes :/12:50
bluefoxicyhowever, WE SAW WHO DID IT.12:50
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bluefoxicywhat did that look like... {Internet}<->[Router] <->[PIX] <->[Switch] <->[Patch Panel] <->{network}  with a monitor station dangling off the PIX I believe (we were using the PIX for port redirecting and firewalling)12:53
bluefoxicythis is not important12:53
Keybuksorry, it had to be sung12:56
zulKeybuk: you ok12:56
KeybukI could be very evil, and inflict you all with the MP3 that Rhythmbox decided I wanted to listen to12:58
=== Fujitsu runs away from Keybuk, quickly.
zulheh...still listening to megadeth so do you worse12:59
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zulhey ajmitch 01:02
ajmitchhey zul 01:03
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imbrandono/~ .... sing with a hoola meoldy .... o/~03:35
=== imbrandon dances
imbrandonheh , keybuk's song03:38
zulthat was just evil03:38
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jeff_When I install a package for an open source program is the source usually installed as well?05:12
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LaserJockjeff_: not usually05:15
jeff_I'm looking for devilspie's source code in particular05:16
bddebianRarely if you are doing a binary package install05:16
LaserJockjeff_: normally it takes up too much bandwidth and hard drive space05:16
LaserJockjeff_: you apt-get source devilspie05:16
bddebianjeff_: Then you need to apt-get source devilspie05:16
LaserJockbut make sure you have the source repositories enabled05:16
jeff_which source repositories should I enable?05:17
poningruif you got the program from apt-get then you can get the source with the same repos source05:18
jeff_ah, thanks05:18
jeff_I got it now05:18
jeff_hrm, is there a standard name for source packages?05:19
jeff_I installed it using apt-get source devilspie, but I don't see it when I search for devilspie in synaptic package manager05:19
LaserJocksource packages don't show up in synaptic05:20
jeff_ok, is there an obvious reason for that?05:22
LaserJockcould be05:22
HrdwrBoBbecause it would be terribly confusing?05:23
LaserJockapt-get source is run as a user and grabs the source package and unpacks it in the current directory05:23
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poningruneeded some help with a bug05:31
dmbi don't know if this is the right room, but i just wanted to let you know that the mirror http://ftp.wayne.edu is not working05:31
dmbthe ubuntu download page links to http://ftp.wayne.edu/linux_distributions/ubuntu/6.06/ubuntu-6.06-desktop-i386.iso, which isn't working05:31
poningrubug 5570605:32
UbugtuMalone bug 55706 in python-uncertainities "python-uncertainities python2.3/2.4 breakage." [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5570605:32
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poningruits a simple fix on postinst05:32
LaserJockponingru: #ubuntu-bugs is the place to go05:32
poningruno one helped there :(05:32
dmboh wait, i think thats because of the change to 6.06.105:32
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jeff_Anyone here familiar with GObject and signals?06:30
jdubjeff_: gimpnet is going to be a better place to start for that :)06:31
ajmitchafternoon jdub 06:32
jdubjeff_: irc.gnome.org / irc.gimp.org06:32
jdubyo ajmitch 06:32
jeff_jdub: thanks06:34
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BenCanyone able to process linux-source-2.6.17 so l-r-m will get built?06:51
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infinityBenC: Oh, I suppose so. :)07:00
BenCinfinity: thank you great archive maintainer :)07:00
infinityI only see two arches in the NEW queue...07:03
infinityDid the others get processed already?07:03
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BenCall 5 built successfully07:05
infinityYeah, and amd64/powerpc/i386 got rejected.  Checking why now.07:06
infinity20:34:14 INFO    Rejected:07:06
infinity20:34:14 INFO    Exception while accepting: 'Description'07:06
infinityBroken control file?07:07
BenCis it one of the new udeb's?07:07
BenCspeakup and nic-firmware were added07:07
infinityIt's not that specific, sadly.07:07
BenCdo udeb's have to have a description?07:07
BenCI'm pretty sure that's what it is07:08
infinityEverything should, afaik.07:08
BenCbah, kernel-wedge didn't complain and neither did dpkg-dev :P07:08
BenC*sigh*, guess I'll reupload07:08
infinityIt could be soyuz being too anal, but I can't see a valid reason for a package NOT having a description either.07:09
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jeff_I'm getting a glib.h: no such file or directory error even though I have libgtk2.0-dev installed.07:39
BenCinfinity: does initramfs-tools not handle DSDT.aml's anymore?07:51
jdubjeff_: you need the glib dev package installed to have the glib header file07:54
jdubjeff_: channels on gimpnet might be more appropriate for hacking on gtk+/gnome stuff than this one07:54
jeff_jdub: thanks, but it seems that I do have the glib dev packages installed07:55
BenCjeff_: then likely you aren't using the right CFLAGS to find the headers...this is a question for #ubuntu though07:56
BenCor what jdub suggested07:56
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infinityBenC: If it doesn't, I'm not the one who broke it.08:12
infinityBenC: I'll look when I get hom in an hour.08:12
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bencerhi all, where can i find a list of changes/updates for 6.06.1 ?09:16
lucasis there something such as snapshots.debian.net for ubuntu ?09:16
lucasI'd need the Sources file from every day over a long period of time09:17
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hunger_workIs it possible to get an misdn updated? ISDN is still pretty popular in germany and misdn is version 0.0.0+cvs20041018-5.09:38
infinitylucas: Since we switched to launchpad (early this year), everything's stored in launchpad, per version.09:39
lucasyup, but then, t's not possible to get per-day Sources file :( (or I'd have to do a lot of data harvesting)09:40
mvohunger_work: that would be a whishlist bug for the kernel team I guess09:43
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pittiGood morning09:59
Nafallomorning pitti, Hobbsee :-)10:00
Hobbseehi Nafallo, pitti 10:00
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AlinuxOSGood morning pitti ;)10:03
pittihey Nafallo 10:03
pittimoin Hobbsee 10:03
pittiAlinuxOS: hey, long time no see! how are you?10:04
AlinuxOSpitti, Im fine thanks!Finished exams, now in Germany by my girlfriend :) (re-starting gnome translation)10:05
AlinuxOSpitti, and what about you ? :) alles in ordnung :D10:05
pittiAlinuxOS: ja, prima!10:06
AlinuxOSpitti, great!10:06
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Hobbseehi sabdfl 10:09
pittimoin sabdfl10:09
FujitsuGood evening, sabdfl.10:09
Hobbseepitti: hey where's the duncecap?  i think i need to wear it for a while.10:09
=== pitti hands Hobbsee the brown paperbag and the cluebat
pittiHobbsee: heh, what's up?10:10
Hobbseepitti: er...cleared crap out of my home dir and backed up, adn used the backup to overwrite the original.  and then found that i'd missed a couple of folders.10:11
Hobbseelike.... .thunderbird, .gnupg10:11
Hobbseeand goodness knows what else i havent noticed that i'm missing yet.10:11
FujitsuI hope you had backups of your keys...10:11
hunger_workHobbsee: Outch! You do have backups?10:11
=== Hobbsee makes a mental note not to do system maintenence in the middle of a meeting.
Hobbseehunger_work: of .gnupg/ yes, anything else, no10:12
=== Hobbsee lost all her pop3 email
FujitsuThis is why I use IMAP on all my things :P10:12
Hobbseewhich is the @kubuntu.org/@ubuntu.com stuff too.10:12
HobbseeFujitsu: gmail doesnt offer it10:12
pittiHobbsee: argh, you lost all your dotfiles/dotdirs?10:12
=== hunger_work comforts Hobbsee.
FujitsuHobbsee, neither does my ISP, but my server takes care of that.10:12
Hobbseepitti: got some of them.10:12
pittiHobbsee: you don't have a backup of your secret key?10:12
Hobbseepitti: yeah, iv'e got backups of all of .gnupg10:13
pitti*phew* :)10:13
Hobbseeheh, yeah10:13
=== Nafallo has backuppc :-)
FujitsuLosing keys is... really irritating.10:13
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FujitsuBut moreso if they're actually used for something important, like yours :P10:13
Hobbseethat was my first reponse - oh shit, here's my revoke.asc, but i dont remember seeing .gnupg....10:13
HobbseeFujitsu: heh, true10:13
Nafallopitti: btw, are you familiar with backuppc's source or was it someone else?10:14
pittiNafallo: not really; I still use my ancient home-grown flexible automatic network backup system10:14
=== Hobbsee still has to figure out what her latest backup is, in terms of email.
Nafalloah, oki. I have a small problem with it I should start hacking on...10:14
Hobbseebut i know it's certainly not recent.10:15
NafalloBug 5491810:15
UbugtuMalone bug 54918 in backuppc "DNS-lookup to AAAA (IPv6) doesn't seem to work" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5491810:15
Hobbseeaye, my computing work is gone.  good thing i didnt start the assignment yet10:15
=== pitti hugs Hobbsee
=== Hobbsee hugs pitti in return
pittiHobbsee: I guess that must happen to everyone until they install an automatic backup :/10:17
Hobbseepitti: could do that.10:17
=== TheMuso remembers loosing a 160GB drive in January, with a lot of stuff not backed up on it. Luckily I didn't loose anything too important, and still had my key.
dokopitti: still seeing the dh_strip failures with the new glibc10:19
=== pitti just finished apt-get upgrading
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pittidoko: hm, works here now on amd6410:21
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pittidoko: objdump -h /usr/lib/*crt*.o|grep debuglink   ?10:21
pittidoko: you have libc6-dev 2.4-1ubuntu8 now?10:22
Hobbseeoh holy crap :(10:23
=== Hobbsee cries more
pittidoko: oh, wait - did you try this with a package which wasn't cleaned before building again?10:23
=== hunger_work comforts Hobbsee.
dokopitti: the latter ... will rebuild10:23
Hobbseehunger_work: i've lost all my saved passwords too :(10:23
pittidoko: i. e. if you built the package with just dh_clean; debuild -nc, then you'll still get the bug10:23
pittidoko: since the built executables will have debuglinks10:23
hunger_workHobbsee: I can recommend faubackup.10:24
pittidoko: ok, *phew* :)10:24
=== Nafallo recommends backuppc to Hobbsee *
Nafalloubuntu main and everything :-)10:24
=== Hobbsee recommends not playing with settings during a meeting :P
=== Spads recommends rdiff-backup and possibly backupninja wrapper to all
Spadsreverse incrementals > *10:25
siretartany archive admins around?10:29
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nagsseb128, http://people.freedesktop.org/~prashmohan/gedit/ also a README there :)10:42
seb128nags: 10:44
seb128mget: Accs chou: 403 Forbidden (gedit-data.xml)10:44
seb128mget: Accs chou: 403 Forbidden (gedit-main.xml)    10:44
seb128mget: Accs chou: 403 Forbidden (gedit.py) 10:44
seb128mget: Accs chou: 403 Forbidden (gedit1.py) 10:44
seb128mget: Accs chou: 403 Forbidden (gedit2.py) 10:44
seb128mget: Accs chou: 403 Forbidden (gedit3.py) 10:44
seb128mget: Accs chou: 403 Forbidden (gedit4-data.xml)10:44
nagsseb128, oops10:45
seb128nags: could you fix that? :)10:45
seb128thank you10:45
nagsseb128, can you try downloading the same from here - http://people.freedesktop.org/~nagappan/gedit/10:49
seb128nags: works fine10:51
nagsseb128, cool :)10:51
pittiiwj: wrt ffox, what do you think about calling it '2.0~beta1' instead of '1.99+2.0beta1'? Personally I find the former a bit nicer to read10:52
seb128pitti: is 2.0 > 2.0~beta1?10:52
pittiiwj: (and we can use ~ since breezy or even earlier)10:52
pittiseb128: yes10:52
seb128ah ok10:52
pittiseb128: that's the point of ~ :)10:52
seb128yeah, I never used it :p10:52
pittiyou can read it as 'minus epsilon'10:53
pittiseb128: ~blah is always smaller than the empty string (also handles the dash correctly)10:53
seb128good to know ;)10:53
=== gnomefreak loves my ff2.0 ;)
Hobbseegnomefreak: how stable is it?10:55
Hobbseeie, how many crashes do you get?10:55
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gnomefreakvery compared to 3.0 :)10:58
gnomefreakHobbsee: none10:58
Hobbseegnomefreak: nice!10:59
Hobbseegnomefreak: when's it supposed to be released?11:00
gnomefreakHobbsee: do you have a package that is easy to merge that i can try to merge. (looking for one not likely to break)11:00
Hobbseegnomefreak: merges.ubuntu.com/universe.htm11:00
gnomefreakspt-oct last i heard11:00
Hobbseecould be anything on them11:00
gnomefreakso it doesnt matter whos name is there?11:00
Hobbseegnomefreak: nope.  dont touch zope or beagle11:01
Hobbseehey cool, this email isnt *too* out of date.11:01
gnomefreakk thank you11:02
gnomefreakthanks got amarok beta last night ;)11:02
gnomefreakdoes it matter if i grab new or updated?11:04
Hobbseegnomefreak: nope11:05
gnomefreakok here i go ;)11:05
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gnomefreakshould this merge script ask me "are you sure you want to delete everything in /temp/11:15
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Hobbseegnomefreak: yes11:18
gnomefreakk got scared there ;)11:18
Hobbseegnomefreak: where are you getting the 2.0 packages from?  mozilla site, or from the post on the mailing list?11:18
mjg59Wow, this stuff /works/11:18
gnomefreakhold on a sec ill get you the page11:18
Treenaksmjg59: is it an Acer? :P11:19
gnomefreakHobbsee: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/bonecho/index-2.0b1.html11:19
=== mjg59 throws it at universe
gnomefreakbrb while all these things are downloading11:20
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Nafallomjg59: nice bughistory in debian atleast :-) (was "lucky"link at google ;-))11:24
thomsegfaulting for config problems is very classy11:27
mjg59I've junked all the config parsing code11:28
mjg59In fact, I've junked most of the code full sotp11:28
gnomefreakHobbsee: can you look at this i get 4-5 lines that start with C is this a conflict or what does it mean http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/2026711:28
StevenKgnomefreak: The REPORT mentions them.11:29
Hobbseegnomefreak: yeah, it shows the debian and ubuntu changes with the >, <, and lets you sort out what you do and dont want11:29
gnomefreakStevenK: im reading that now :(11:30
mjg59Anyway, it's much faster11:30
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gnomefreakbefore i go nuts is it as easy to ust take the newest versions with patches and make a source.tar.gz and than continue? if not how do i make this work11:52
Hobbseegnomefreak: cd into the directory MoM created for you, and then do the changes from there?11:52
gnomefreakit created a dir?11:52
Hobbseeshould have done11:53
Hobbseeyou used grab-merge.sh didnt you?11:53
gnomefreakis this the one with help and debian nad pixmaps11:54
gnomefreakits the only normal looking folder in ~/temp11:54
gnomefreakthe rest are tars or dsc11:54
tepsipakkiKamion: maybe debian-install rebuild is all that is needed to pick up the new libc-udebs?11:55
Hobbseeer, which are you getting?11:55
Hobbseeaah, right.11:55
=== Hobbsee thought you were using pixmaps for a second
Hobbseeyou're looking in the dir where you ran the script?11:55
gnomefreakim in where it left the changes and the report adn so on11:56
gnomefreakthe merge-genchanges and merge-buildpackage11:57
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gnomefreakim wondering if i should request a sync on gnomebaker than when its done re try?12:07
Hobbseegnomefreak: bug report, subject: [Edgy MoM]  Please sync foo version from debian sid, get a MOTU to ack it, and subscribe ubuntu-archive12:08
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gnomefreakthe version would be the latest version i got in the download right?12:11
Hobbseeyou're wanting the latest debian, shown in the report12:12
gnomefreakok how do i get a motu to (ack) it. oh and what is ack?12:15
Hobbseeack = approve12:15
Hobbseeask for someone to approve it in -motu, i expect12:16
Hobbseegnomefreak: or subscribe ubuntu-universe-contributors to it12:18
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madducklucas: do you have the scripts for the comparison available somewhere? (re: blog)12:33
lucasI'll put them somewhere12:34
sivanghi all12:34
sivangdoes anybody have a recommendation for a wirless gateway/router ? by reference to a brandname / mafctr. ?12:35
thomnetgear dg83412:35
sivangthom: hi, what about the EDIMAXes and friends? ;-)12:35
=== sivang looks for something not so expansive.
thomsivang: what about them? the dg384 works beautifully12:36
sivangthom: Do you have any expreince with those ? are they good as the netgear ?12:37
ograif you look for cheapo stuff, i had no bad experiences with belkin in that price class12:37
ogra(dont ask for model names ... but they are generally cheap)12:38
sivangogra: cool, thanks :)12:38
sivangogra: and also much more spread here (as well as the edimaxs) then netgreas..12:38
lucasmadduck: http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/bazaar/cmpver.rb12:40
iwjpitti: I was going to ask whether ~ is allowed in Ubuntu version numbers.  Nice to have `yes' as an answer.12:42
Kaleo|workrodarvus: do you think we can have another UVF for xserver-xorg-video-i810 ?12:42
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iwjpitti: But I won't do ff 2.0~beta unless Debian do, just to avoid aggro.12:42
pittiiwj: we have used it for backports for quite a while now, and even Debian can use it now :)12:42
rodarvusKaleo|work, we had one yesterday :)12:42
rodarvusversion 1.6.4 is on the archives12:42
pittiiwj: oh, right, if Debian has an orig.tar.gz, we should use that12:42
iwjpitti: Right.12:42
rodarvusI'm working on libdrm/mesa update, to support 3D on the new cards supported by this driver12:43
rodarvusKaleo|work, unless a 1.6.5 was released in the last 6 hours (time I've been sleeping), there is no need for another UVF of xserver-xorg-video-i810 ;)12:43
Kaleo|workrodarvus: that's exactly the case12:46
Kaleo|worksee bug ... hmmm12:46
rodarvusKaleo|work, yes, we can have UVF exceptions for them12:46
rodarvusfor this new version12:47
rodarvusKaleo|work, I was expecting a 1.6.5 soon, but not in 6 hours :)12:48
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Kaleo|workyes rodarvus, bug 5590712:51
UbugtuMalone bug 55907 in xorg-server "Slow indirect rendering after update to version 1.6.4" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5590712:51
Kaleo|workI linked to upstream12:51
Kaleo|workbefore I went to bed ;)12:51
=== Hobbsee waves to rodarvus. broken anything lately?
rodarvusyeah, i810 yesterday12:53
rodarvusbut was not my fault this time :)12:53
Hobbseerodarvus: crud, how's it broken?12:54
rodarvusHobbsee, upstream removed a few compatibility information from version 1.6.4 of the i810 driver12:56
rodarvusrestored on 1.6.512:56
Hobbseerodarvus: right.  so X is gone till the new updates, or what?12:57
Hobbseeoh good12:57
rodarvusits just slower for people with Intel boards, and only some of them12:57
rodarvusi830 or newer, I think12:57
Nafallorodarvus: I didn't see any effects on i845GE :-)01:00
rodarvusanyhow, 1.6.5-0ubuntu1 was uploaded01:01
rodarvusshould be compiled an published in one or two hours, hopefully] 01:02
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AlinuxOSpitti, ping01:03
Kaleo|workrodarvus: thanks so much !01:03
rodarvusKaleo|work, thank YOU for the bug triaging01:03
rodarvusbug triaging is always helpful and appreciated :)01:03
pittiAlinuxOS: pong01:03
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webbenpitti: i just noticed your comment on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/sudo/+bug/5079701:06
UbugtuMalone bug 50797 in sudo "sudo built with --with-secure-path is problematic" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  01:06
webbenpitti: rather than dropping --secure-path, why not restore the ability to change the secure path in /etc/sudoers ?01:07
webben(i was actually working on this, i got the secure path working at the expense of causing some other bug, if you'd like to see a diff)01:07
webben(but i don't think it's hard -- i don't know c++ and i got halfway there)01:08
pittiwebben: it's only C :)01:08
webbenpitti: see, i don't even know which language it is01:08
pittiwebben: sure, if you have a patch for this which doesn't cause regressions and does not require us to change configuration files, that's fine01:08
webbenpitti: and i still managed to hack support back in01:08
webbenpitti: the problem is my patch caused some other annoying bug, and i couldn't figure out why01:09
webbenpitti: and it required one deeply inefficient reuse of existing code01:09
pitti^ for reasons like this I'm very cautious about sudo patches :)01:09
webbenpitti: it really does need somebody who knows what they're doing i think01:09
webbenpitti: which isn't me (although i did try and will happily share the diff)01:09
webbenif anyone else is willing to take a look01:10
pittiwebben: maybe you can add what you have to the report, and describe the problem?01:10
pittithen everyone can comment (including myself, but not now)01:10
webbenpitti: that's a good idea :), i'll have to reinstall my package to find out what the funny bug i caused was, but i'll try and attach it to the bug at some point today :)01:10
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pittiwebben: great01:12
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pittiseb128__: does your net connection suck so hard today? :)01:12
seb128__pitti: yeah, it's not that happy today :/01:12
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AlinuxOSseb128__, wifi? 01:13
seb128__AlinuxOS: no, dsl line01:13
rodarvuspitti, so, when bzr 0.9 is going to hit the buildds? :P01:13
pittirodarvus: don't ask me; LP turnaround has been ludicrously slow in the last days01:14
StevenKThe LP developers haven't been pedalling hard enough.01:14
rodarvusthat means you're going to upload it soon?01:14
pittirodarvus: erm, me?01:15
rodarvuswell, you were the last uploader of bzr :)01:16
pittimeh, I just requested a sync01:16
pittiOTOH, if you guys want me to, I'll package it01:16
=== pitti looks forward to getting 0.9, too
dokoinfinity, cprov: please requeue gcj-4.2 on powerpc and sparc (if the chroot problems are solved)01:17
pittitraditionally, jbailey has packaed them, but he won't have much time nowadays01:17
nagsseb128__, ping01:18
pittirodarvus: ah, Debian already has 0.9rc101:18
cprovdoko: we need to check with infinity if the chroot are fixed, them I can requeue if necessary01:19
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pittihttp://bazaar-vcs.org/Performance/0.9 is quite impressive01:21
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rodarvusvery impressiv01:28
ge_ubuntudoes somebody see me here? I just registered01:28
pittige_ubuntu: ack01:28
Fujitsuge_ubuntu, I can't see you.01:28
ge_ubuntuI am trying to priv somebody, seems like i am not visible01:30
ge_ubuntuor they dont see my priv emesg01:30
ge_ubuntumako: do you see me?01:33
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iwjDid we know that gnome-cups-add segfaults ?01:47
pittiI saw it crashing sometimes, but never really reproducable01:47
iwjAh, well, it's nice and reproduceable for me.01:48
=== iwj writes a bug report.
Treenakscore files!01:48
pittiI'm checking every half an hour, hoping that this 2.6.17-6 kernel finally condescends to make it to archive.u.c01:49
infinitydoko: I can look at it, no worries.01:49
Hobbseeyay, another kernel update.  and this time, I DONT HAVE TO COMPILE NDISWRAPPER FOR IT!!!!!01:50
=== Hobbsee cheers!
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sabdflHobbsee: is ndsiwrapper included now?01:52
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mjg59ndiswrapper has been included for ages01:52
ajmitchmore that she has a new wifi card01:52
Hobbseesabdfl: it is, but i've always had trouble with it, never being able to make it run01:52
=== Hobbsee got a new card, yes :)
Hobbseefinally, some good news for the day.  or the week.01:53
dokoinfinity: thanks01:53
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sabdflHobbsee: happy for you! however, we can't tell all our users "follow Hobbsee's example and go replace your hardware" :-)01:53
Hobbseesabdfl: haha....that is true01:54
Treenakssabdfl: sure we can :)01:54
thompfft, it seems quite reasonable to me01:54
Hobbseesabdfl: if you told them that, the next thing you'd be saying is "follow Hobbsee's example, and order everybody else around so that things actually get done"01:54
pittiHobbsee: well, it feels a bit like 'please adapt your problem to our solution', but then again, hardware sucks :)01:54
ajmitchseems reasonable to replace hardware that has only proprietary binary drivers :)01:55
mjg59sabdfl: There's someone in the London office today, right?01:55
pittiajmitch: full ack01:55
Hobbseepitti: well, the reason i havent tried looking into fixing it that much, is that it *obviously* works for other people, as there are no bug reports with my particular problem.  and i wasnt sure if it was ndiswrapper upstream, which had problems with marvell cards for a while anyway.01:55
Hobbseei figured it was probably user error, rather than application errorr.02:00
mjg59Don't we ship a driver for the Marvell chipset /anyway/ ?02:00
infinityWe do.  And it even kinda works.02:01
sabdflmjg59: couple of folks, yes02:01
Hobbseemjg59: we do?  how on *earth* do you get to it?02:01
mjg59sabdfl: Ok, cool. I'll drop down and pick up the Toshibas I left behind, then02:01
mjg59Hobbsee: modprobe mrv8k02:01
=== Hobbsee never found that in the documentation. but i was using a freebsd driver, which worked better
Hobbseemjg59: ahhh....02:01
mjg59Hobbsee: But it ought to be autoloaded. What does lspci look like for your card?02:02
Hobbseemjg59: i'd have to *find* it.  it never autoloaded.  it's a netgear wg511v2 made in china card, marvell 8335 chipset02:02
mjg59Hobbsee: Then it's probably a missing PCI ID. 02:03
mjg59What's the lspci output?02:03
StevenKHobbsee: When you say find, do you mean, unearth from the hole you buried it in?02:03
HobbseeStevenK: no, i think it's at the bottom of my bag.02:03
=== Hobbsee goes to look. brb
mjg59Hobbsee: Oh, sorry - I thought you meant find the driver!02:03
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mjg59Hobbsee: Sure, no rush02:04
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Hobbsee_mjg59: 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88w8335 [Libertas]  802.11b/g Wireless (rev 03)02:05
mjg59Hobbsee_: Can you give lspci -s 02:00.0 -v -n ?02:05
mjg59Just the first two lines of output02:05
Hobbsee_02:00.0 0200: 11ab:1faa (rev 03)02:05
Hobbsee_        Subsystem: 1385:4e0002:05
Hobbsee_mjg59: ^02:05
mjg59Now, that's interesting02:06
mjg59 {PCI_VENDOR_ID_MARVELL, 0x1faa, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0x6b00, 0x1385,\02:06
mjg59 W8335},02:06
mjg59I'd have expected that to get it to autoload02:06
Hobbsee_mjg59: well, it certainly doesnt :P02:07
=== mjg59 wonders what the last two bits of hex in there are
mjg59I should really remember this stuff02:07
mjg59Hobbsee_: Anyway, it'd be great if we could work through a debug session at some point02:07
mjg59I have to head out now, though02:07
Hobbsee_mjg59: you mean you dont know everything?  shame!02:07
Hobbsee_mjg59: sure, ping me when you've got some time :)02:07
Hobbsee_or email, or whatever.02:08
Hobbsee_sudo modprobe mrv8k still doesnt show flashing lights on the card.02:09
Hobbsee_oh well.  debug session would be cool :)02:09
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Hobbseeright...am i here now?02:12
=== pitti waves to Hobbsee
ajmitchHobbsee: somewhat02:13
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=== Hobbsee waves back to pitti
=== Hobbsee attacks ajmitch with a rubber chicken
ajmitchkind of you02:14
Hobbseeyeah :)02:15
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Hobbseeajmitch: no, extremely kind of me would be to use my whip, surely?02:15
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=== mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o Hobbsee] by ChanServ
Hobbseeoh yeah, that's right :)02:19
Hobbseethat did get done, it didnt just stay as an idea in my head.02:19
=== mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o Hobbsee] by ChanServ
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Hobbseewb zul 02:20
=== Hobbsee wonders what she was going to do w.r.t the meeting this morning. i'm sure i was going to do something.
ajmitchhi zul 02:21
zulhey ajmitch 02:21
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raphinkis there a packaged build server ?02:23
raphinkthat gathers the scripts to deal with GPG signatures, building the packages for multiple architectures, building the repository02:23
=== HiddenWolf thinks apt-get instant-DIY-distro would be hand too
HiddenWolfhandy, even02:24
raphinkwhat is that?02:25
HiddenWolfraphink: a joke. :)02:25
=== raphink goes look at sbuild
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sivangare the instructions over https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KernelCustomBuild  right for working with latest edgy?02:31
zulsivang: yep02:32
sivangzul: cool, thanks.02:33
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sivangzul: specifically, is there a certain way to distinguish between custom built kernel packages and the ones provided by the repository ?02:44
zulsivang: if you use the follow the instructions in the wiki page it will create a custom kernel for you02:45
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sivangzul: yes, I realized that. Asking in advance, do you know if someone can use this instructions to create a custom kernel that will have pkg naming and versioning as the repo provided ones?02:46
zulsivang: i believe so02:46
=== Hobbsee waves to sivang
sivangzul: for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemCleanUpTool , I need to find a good way to know which kernels on the system where manually built and installed, and which ones are provided by the repo02:47
=== sivang hugs Hobbsee
zulsivang: thats a tough one that im not sure about sorry02:48
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thomhrm, that's a problem03:18
Keybukwhat is?03:18
thomthe bug on sudo i'm just about to report03:19
thom(i just ran ntpdate on a machine, sudo now thinks the timestamp is too far in the future, and neither -k or -K will remove the timestamp)03:19
thomi'm open to suggestions short of rebooting :-)03:21
Keybukheh, yeah, sudo hates it when you do that03:22
Keybukthere's a stamp file you can touch03:22
KeybukI think03:22
=== Keybuk made it do that once
thomoh fun, and the sudo.ws bugzilla is bust03:26
thomKeybuk: hrm, i can't see any reference to something like that in the docs03:26
infinitythom: Only root can read the docs.  Try "sudo sudo --help" :P03:27
ograinfinity, oh, was sudo patched to accept -- options now ? 03:28
thominfinity: :P lamer03:28
infinityogra: It was a joke. :)03:29
ograinfinity, i *know* :P03:29
pittiwell, --help works :)03:29
infinitypitti: Only in the sense that it tell you that it doesn't.03:29
pitti(if you ignore the 'please use single character options' complaint)03:29
thomyes, it's precisely as useful as -h (aka, chocolate fireguard)03:30
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Keybukit could be worse, it could be designed by a launchpad developer03:31
Keybuk--force --force-harder --FORCE --FORCE-FORCE-FORCE03:31
pittiKeybuk: is it that bad? :/03:32
infinityLP's options are very.. Verbose.. And almost always ALL required.03:32
infinityOther than that, it's great.03:32
pittiI guess you guys have a fine collection of aliases by now :)03:32
thomi might add a FASTER_PUSSYCAT_KILL_KILL_KILL env var to sudo which'll make it kill everything03:33
ograapt-get install slay ?03:33
ograsudo slay root ?03:33
thomogra: I don't have sudo access, see above03:33
ograah, right03:34
Keybukpitti: I tend to dislike multiple "force" options which only differ in case, but have different effects03:34
Seveas--force --dark_side_of_the_force03:40
pitti"Dark the other side is."03:41
pitti"Be quiet, Yoda, and eat your toast!"03:41
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siretartKeybuk: Do you want to sync the new wpasupplicant from unstable, since we now have madwifi-ng in edgy?03:46
Keybuksiretart: already done it03:47
HobbseeKeybuk: thanks a lot!03:47
Hobbseew.r.t. endless lots of syncs.03:48
Hobbseethe count has finally gotten high enough now?  i poked over kdmtheme stuff last night, so feel free to do that one too.03:48
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bddebianKeybuk: What does [debian multimedia]  imply?03:51
Keybukbddebian: that it's a sync from debian multimedia?03:51
bddebianKeybuk: Oh, you dropped the sync part :-)03:52
bddebianThx btw03:52
KeybukHobbsee: how do you mean?03:52
gnomefreaksiretart: i borrowed one of your merges to use for learning but it needs to be synced (just letting you knwo so you dont freak out)03:53
Keybukbddebian: *shrug* it's pretty obvious to us that it's a sync request <g>03:53
HobbseeKeybuk: how do you mean to which bit?03:53
bddebianKeybuk: Well I'm kinda slow sometimes :-)03:53
KeybukHobbsee: "do that one"03:53
HobbseeKeybuk: ah, sorry.  i'll find it for you03:53
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=== Hobbsee curses the fact that she lost most of her email. again.
siretartgnomefreak: sure, go ahead!03:53
KeybukHobbsee: you want kdetheme sync'd?03:54
gnomefreakHobbsee: you want mine ;)03:54
gnomefreaksiretart: ty but looks like it will be a week or so i got a out of office reply03:54
HobbseeKeybuk: i want whatever we finally decided at the end of that bug report synced.03:54
Hobbseegnomefreak: heh, no.03:54
HobbseeKeybuk: hmmm.  looks like kcontrol-kdmtheme/kdmtheme has already been fixed, i cant see the bug for it anymore.  we want to sync the debian version, and axe ubuntu's, anyway.03:57
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HobbseeKeybuk: axe kcontrol-kdmtheme, sync kdmtheme.  that's it.  :)04:00
makoge_ubuntu: i see you04:03
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pittiis it just my current incarnation of archive.ubuntu.com that doesn't want to get linux-source-2.6.17_2.6.17-6.17 or everyone's? (the binaries were built > 8 hours ago)04:20
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pittioh, wait, they could hang in NEW04:21
pittiKeybuk: are the 2.6.17-6.17 kernel binaries in NEW?04:21
ajmitchI think they were poked through NEW awhile ago04:21
infinitypitti: No, they were rejected because BenC messed up.04:24
infinitypitti: He was meant to upload a fixed source, but hasn't yet.04:24
pittiah, ok04:25
infinityKeybuk: Ignore pitti, I am. :P04:25
bddebianHeya infinity04:26
=== ogra wonders why we have fuse in main but fuse-utils not
Keybukinfinity: I usually do04:27
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=== Keybuk wonders what mvo's recent obsession is with all things thai ... "I YOUR WIFE!"
bddebianErr Huh?04:29
=== Keybuk sits bddebian down in front of Priscilla - Queen of the Desert
bddebianSeen it04:30
infinityPoeple outside of Australia have seen this film?04:32
zulyes intentionally04:33
infinitymvo: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't update-notifier supposed to notify me of updates?04:34
thominfinity: that's a bold assumption04:34
infinitymvo: Oh, never mind, I didn't wait long enough for it to think.  Stupid thing.04:34
=== mvo vagualy remebers priscilla
mvoinfinity: get a faster machine04:37
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infinitymvo: Thpt.04:39
=== mvo hugs infinity (carefully)
Keybukdoko: ping04:46
dokoKeybuk: pong04:47
Keybukdoko: bug #54916, colour me confused04:47
UbugtuMalone bug 54916 in Ubuntu "removal requests for dapper-proposed" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5491604:47
Keybukwhat exactly is the problem there?04:47
Keybukyou don't want openoffice.org in dapper-proposed for amd64?04:48
Keybukbut it's fine to leave it in for i386, powerpc and sparc?04:48
dokono, just not openoffice.org-evolution and openoffice.org-dev04:48
Keybukwhy just those two?04:48
Keybukthat makes NO sense04:48
dokothese were built from the OOo source, not the OOo-amd64 source. it DOES make sense04:49
rodarvusinfinity, ping04:49
Keybukopenoffice.org-gtk-gnome | 2.0.3-3dapper3 | dapper-proposed | amd6404:49
Keybukopenoffice.org | 2.0.3-4dapper2-1 | dapper-proposed | amd6404:49
Keybukwhat about those two?04:49
rodarvusit seems we are having chroot problems on powerpc -> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/23613904:49
dokoopenoffice.org is ok, built from ooo-amd64, yes openoffice.org-gtk-gnome should be removed as well, there should be an binary indep package instead04:50
Keybukah, that makes more sense then04:51
Keybukttf-opensymbol | 2.0.3-4dapper2 | dapper-proposed | all04:51
Keybuklibmythes-dev | 2.0.3-4dapper2 | dapper-proposed | amd6404:51
Keybukwhat about those two?04:51
dokothey are ok04:51
dokoall *4dapper2* packages should be ok04:52
Keybukit was that you didn't ask for gtk-gnome to be removed that was confusing04:53
infinityrodarvus: pong.04:53
infinityrodarvus: If you're pinging about LRM, I can't really do anything about getting a fixed one in until BenC uploads a linux-source that doesn't suck.04:54
lucasKeybuk: is someone monitoring debian removals on a regular basis ? the few packages I asked you to remove were removed from debian a long time ago04:55
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Keybuklucas: no, nobody monitors those04:55
infinityelmo used to, in the bad old days.04:56
Keybukdoko: ya know, I'm not sure I can do this04:56
infinityWe don't seem to have a procedure for that now.04:56
rodarvusinfinity, no, I'm not pinging about LRM :)04:56
rodarvus<rodarvus> it seems we are having chroot problems on powerpc -> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/23613904:56
dokoKeybuk: open a lp bug report ;)04:56
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infinityrodarvus: That's not a chroot problem, it's an archive problem... Which is even worse.04:58
=== infinity would love to know how we're managing to get archive inconsistencies on drescher now.
mdkejdub: ping05:00
Gloubiboulgaseb128, ping05:09
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Gloubiboulgamvo, ping as well :)05:13
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mvohello Gloubiboulga05:16
Gloubiboulgahi mvo, I've seen that you've merged gksu05:18
mvoGloubiboulga: yes05:18
Gloubiboulgathe package now builds a nautilus extension which brings all the gnome libs05:18
Gloubiboulgaand it's a little problem for xubuntu...05:18
mvoGloubiboulga: right, I guess that needs to be split out05:19
Gloubiboulgamvo, ok, I can take care of this if you want05:19
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mvoGloubiboulga: yes please!05:21
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mvoGloubiboulga: let me know if the upload needs sponsoring 05:24
Gloubiboulgamvo, not a sponsoring, but a review yes, I've never touch nautilus packages yet :)05:24
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rouzicHi all05:28
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doko$ sudo debootstrap dapper /home/chroot/d205:32
dokoI: Retrieving Packages05:32
dokoI: Retrieving Packages05:32
dokoI: Retrieving Packages05:32
dokoI: Resolving dependencies of required packages...05:32
dokoI: Resolving dependencies of base packages...05:32
dokoW: Failure trying to run: chroot /home/chroot/d2 mount -t proc proc /proc05:32
dokothat's ia6405:32
kylemdoko, don't you need to specify ports.ubuntu.com as the mirror?05:33
Spadsproc proc proc05:35
dokokylem: yes, I remember ... but the error message ... is ... interesting ...05:35
kylemyeah, i saw that too while rebuilding some chroots. :\05:36
bddebianw00t, Keybuk r0x!!05:38
ToadstoolKeybuk: about the gnomebaker sync, the only remaining difference with the current debian version is a tiny modification for the desktop file which is not worth a -XubuntuY version to my mind05:39
Toadstoolhey bddebian 05:39
bddebianHi Toadstool05:39
KeybukToadstool: what's the modification?05:39
Keybukbddebian: for?05:39
ToadstoolKeybuk: Icon=/full/path -> Icon=icon.png, both validate with desktop-file-validate05:40
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bddebianKeybuk: Everything :-)05:44
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Keybukdamn, emacs really hates __attribute__ :-/06:19
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=== infinity grumps, as he notices that full-screen mplayer no longer seems to cover the GNOME panel.
Spadsheh, feh fullscreen has the same problem06:22
infinityNow, do I blame gnome-panel, metacity, or mplayer?06:22
Keybukinfinity: seb06:23
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KeybukI find it more gratifying to blame him than the software06:23
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Amaranthinfinity: metacity's fullscreen code got some changes recently, i guess it's to blame06:33
infinityAmaranth: Well, poo.  Any clues where to start looking?06:34
Amaranthxprop | grep _NET_WM_STATE06:35
Amaranth'[if]  it shows "_NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN" as one of the states and then focus that window and observe it to not be on top of all other windows (including panels), then it sounds like you've discovered a bug in Metacity.  If so, I would be interested to learn how to reproduce so that I can fix it.'06:36
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AmaranthBasically they did some things to fix it for WINE and it must have broken other apps.06:37
=== infinity raises his brow at the fifrefox 2.0 beta in edgy.
=== pygi thinks we should go for "firefox 3.0" :)
infinityAmaranth: I assume this is going to require another machine and an SSH session.  Which means getting up off the couch.06:40
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Amaranthno, you have to click on the window after running that to make it spit out anything06:41
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Amaranthonly the panels go on top of it, nothing else can?06:41
Amaranthhttp://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/metacity/src/window.c?r1=1.442&r2=1.443 <--what changed06:42
Amaranthbtw, totem and vlc still work just fine ;)06:44
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kozzis there a page somewhere describing all packages that are included on the cd/dvd?06:47
Amaranthinfinity: Can you try reverting that change and seeing if you still have problems?06:47
kozzwho decides which packges are to be included?06:47
LaserJockkozz: that is done by seeds06:48
infinityAmaranth: Yeah, just the top panel, in fact.06:48
Amaranthanyone on the ubuntu-core-dev launchpad team can change the seeds, apparently06:48
LaserJockkozz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement06:48
infinityAmaranth: But I'm far too drunk to debug anything right now.06:48
Amaranthinfinity: alright :)06:48
Amaranthinfinity: Just use totem then. ;)06:48
infinityAmaranth: Will you be around on the weekend?  I may want to debug this when sober.06:49
AmaranthI should be around part of the time.06:49
infinityAmaranth: Kay, cool.  I'll ping you later.  I'm GNOME ignorant, and preder to stay that way.06:49
kozzLaserJock: thanks for pointing me in the right direction06:49
infinityprefer too.06:50
LaserJockkozz: np06:50
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rouzicHi kagou :)07:03
KhanReaperI am trying to write a package that provides a wrapper for the /usr/bin/firefox script. I placed a dpkg-divert in the new package's preinst script, but dpkg complains that the replacement firefox script already exists in the firefox package. What can I do to overcome this? The dpkg-divert call works successfully, but why is this happening? Is there any way around this?07:04
KhanReaperBy the way, there is a very good reason that this is being handled via a Debian package.07:04
ChipzzKhanReaper: why?07:06
sivangKeybuk: You use emacs ?07:08
Keybuksivang: yes07:08
sivangKeybuk: did you notice that was a font change in one of the previous edgy updates? Do you know how it can be put back to the normal default one? or is this smaller font the new default?07:09
KhanReaperIt would be waste of time to discuss it here, as the reasons are very exhaustive. Simply put, there are some problems with a plugin that Firefox uses, and it needs some special modifications to accommodate this special plugin. This is used on about 100+ workstations, and the configurations for these machines need to be kept in-sync via a local Debian package repository. As I said, this is a waste of time to discuss.07:09
sladensivang: fixed font size change?07:10
KhanReaperShouldn't a diversion, mark that file's name as free for when a new package is installed?07:10
kagouwho can i ask for doing a sync for new debian blender package ?07:10
Keybuksivang: "font change" ?07:10
=== Keybuk uses emacs in gnome terminal
sivangKeybuk: ah, you're not using Xemacs then.07:11
sivangKeybuk: I'll try that as well :-)07:11
sladensivang: I'm not clear what you're doing, but could it be related to which aliases file is used?  bug #5480907:11
UbugtuMalone bug 54809 in xfonts-utils "X server cannot find default font `fixed'" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5480907:11
=== sivang checks
Kaleo|workrodarvus: hmmm07:13
Kaleo|workI still have problems with i81007:13
rodarvusKaleo|work, latest i810 is not published yet07:14
rodarvus(though it is uploaded)07:14
Kaleo|worksorry I was reading that in your comment07:14
sivangsladen: my server doesn't crash though07:15
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sladensivang: ignore the bug report itself.  look at the notes about the fonts.aliases file and which is used07:17
rodarvussladen, nice, thanks for tracing the root of the fonts issue07:18
sladensivang: one thing I did notice is that I had differently sized fonts afterwards07:18
rodarvussladen, do you want to update xfonts-base?07:18
sladenrodarvus: what's your thoughts, _just_ fixing xfonts-base shoulds fix it for all intents and purposes---you happy if I just do a fresh upload of that?07:19
rodarvussure, seems just fine for me07:19
rodarvusmaybe other font packages might need it too07:19
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rodarvusalternatively, have a versioned depends on xorg could do it.07:19
sladenrodarvus: yeah, but they won't actually *break* the X server07:20
=== sivang dist-upgrades and then will try sladen's instructions on the bug report.
sladenrodarvus: should it actually be pre-depends?07:23
rodarvusit should, but debian policy really really hates pre-depends07:23
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nagsseb128, hi07:30
nagsseb128, we got some review comments regarding gedit scripts from gedit authors07:30
seb128ah, nice comments?07:31
nagsseb128, we are incorporating them07:31
nagsseb128, yes :)07:31
seb128I tried to make it working07:31
nagsseb128, we would like to hear from you too :)07:31
seb128but it does nothing on my box07:31
nagsseb128, oops07:31
seb128maybe I'm not using it rightly07:31
sivangsladen: I also get Warning: locale not supported by Xlib, locale set to C07:31
sivangsladen: btw07:31
nagsseb128, infact all those were developed in Ubuntu box07:32
seb128I don't have ldtp installed to my system, I run if from the srcdir, I'm not sure if that's right07:32
nagsseb128, enabled accessibility ?07:32
nagsseb128, ldtp has to be installed and accessibility should be enabled07:32
seb128it needs to be installed? 07:32
seb128or from the srcdir is fine?07:32
sladensivang: sounds like encodings isn't being setup ---could be related07:33
nagsseb128, installed07:35
nagsG0SUB, hi07:35
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sladenrodarvus: in the spirit of blows-your-X-server-away I've uploaded it with and I'll wait for the complaints to come in07:36
rodarvussladen, btw, I have uploaded new libdrm, mesa, xserver-xorg and xserver-xorg-video-i810 this morning, you might be intersted on it07:38
rodarvus(since you seem to care about mesa and i810)07:38
seb128nags: is there a ldtp package somewhere?07:38
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nagsseb128, yes, based on cr3 advice Casanova created it07:39
nagsCasanova, Ubuntu LDTP deb07:39
Casanovanags: the deb?07:39
Casanovaah ok :)07:39
nagsCasanova, yes07:39
nagsCasanova, link ?07:40
seb128nags: http://download.freedesktop.org/ldtp/0.x/0.5.x/ldtp_0.5.0-2_i386.deb ?07:40
seb128I've just found that with google07:40
Casanovaseb128: the source package is in the above link :)07:40
seb128ok, thank you07:40
seb128I tried to build from the ldtp src dir I have but the deb had no content out of the documentation of the package07:40
iwjOh, how amusing, this thing labelled as `breezy' in my grub is in fact a half-completed install.  I've just booted it and it's `Installing packages' :-).07:41
nagsCasanova, for running addict3d / narasim_7 scripts, do we need to enable accessibility explicitly ?07:41
nagsseb128, ah okay07:41
Casanovaseb128: i dont get you07:41
Casanovanags: explicitly in the sense?07:41
seb128Casanova: I runned debuild to http://people.freedesktop.org/~prashmohan/latest/ldtp-0.5.0/ copied on my disk07:42
seb128Casanova: and the .deb only had /usr/share/doc/ldtp, no binary07:42
Casanovaseb128: i use dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot07:42
seb128should be the same07:42
Casanovai guess07:42
seb128anyway just installed the deb from where you pointed07:42
nagsCasanova, we set from gnome-control-center right ? instead just launchapp ('gedit', 1) ?07:42
Casanovai am building gnome now... i will try running debuild on it after that07:43
Casanovanags: the scripts start gedit using launchapp07:43
Casanovanags: yes07:43
nagsCasanova, cool07:43
nagsCasanova, also narasim_7 here ?07:43
nagsCasanova, maybe he can directly get comments from seb128 :)07:44
seb128bah, still doing nothing07:44
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Casanovaseb128: doing nothing in the sense?07:44
seb128I run "ldtprunner gedit-main.xml" but it stays on the command doing nothing07:44
nagsseb128, Casanova did jhbuild + LDTP integration and Evolution automation as part of Google SoC07:44
seb128Casanova: like no gedit opened, no message, no action, no CPU used, ... :)07:44
nagsseb128, narasim_7 who has developed those 70 diff scenarios for gedit with his friend addict3d07:44
Casanovaoh oh07:45
Casanovathis is bad07:45
seb128nags: ah, ok :)07:45
narasim_7seb128: hai07:45
seb128hey narasim_707:45
Casanovanags: same issue frederic was facing?07:45
seb128but I don't know how to use that thing07:45
seb128should I opened gedit first?07:45
Casanovaseb128: could why try 1 thing?07:45
Casanovaseb128: no07:45
seb128or is that supposed to be done by the script?07:45
seb128Casanova: sure07:45
Casanovaseb128: could you start `ldtp' in a terminal and run `ldtprunner gedit-main.xml' in another terminal?07:45
nagsCasanova, ah okay07:46
Casanovaseb128: before that07:46
Casanovaseb128: `export LDTP_DEBUG=1' in both terminals07:46
nagsCasanova, maybe LDTP_DEBUG=207:46
nagsit will give more verbose info07:46
Casanovanarasim_7: ?07:47
narasim_7shuldnt that be exported that first07:47
Casanovanarasim_7: that shouldnt be necessary07:47
Casanovaif accessibility is enabled07:48
seb128that's the log07:48
seb128from the ldtprunner 07:48
narasim_7Casanova: ohh.. okie07:48
seb128ldtp has nothing printed07:48
Casanovaseb128: did you export the variable?07:48
Casanovaon the ldtp terminal too?07:48
seb128but =107:48
nagsseb128, try =207:48
Casanovanags: hmm connection wasnt made even?07:49
seb128there we go :)07:49
nagsCasanova, actually =1 gives min info, that too in client only07:49
nagsCasanova, and =2 gives verbose info07:49
seb128Packet received from client is not valid07:49
Casanovaseb128: you started `ldtp' before running `ldtprunner' right?07:49
nagsCasanova, recent change, based on dobey's request07:49
seb128Cliend disconnected07:49
seb128Casanova: yep07:49
Casanovaseb128: is accessibility enabled?07:50
seb128how do I check?07:50
seb128I've clicked on the box for that and restarted the session07:50
seb128so it should07:50
Casanovaseb128: System --> Preferences --> Assistive Technology Support07:51
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seb128just the support option07:51
seb128no app07:51
narasim_7seb128: perhaps some more servers of ldtp are running?07:52
Casanovaseb128: thats ok07:52
Casanovaseb128: killall -KILL ldtp07:52
Casanovaseb128: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/2031107:52
seb128Casanova: client connection: accepted07:55
seb128Locale languages: fr_FR.UTF-807:55
Casanovaah :)07:55
Casanovaclose python07:55
Casanovaand run the script now?07:55
seb128when I close I get the07:55
seb128"Packet received from client is not valid"07:55
Casanovathats ok07:56
nagsnarasim_7, Casanova, seb128, we have some issues in localized version as of now...07:56
seb128lot and lot of log to the ldtp but nothing at screen07:56
nagsprem is working on that07:56
nagsseb128, that will be fixed in our next release07:56
seb128do I need some a11y app?07:57
nagsseb128, hmmm07:57
nagsseb128, no07:57
nagsseb128, you need to try them in default locale - English07:57
nagsthen things will work fine07:57
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nagsseb128, in GNOME metacity, if I want to bring a window to foreground, can we do something ? I mean write a small program etc ? We tried with gok code, but we were not able to succeed07:59
nagsCasanova, narasim_7, maybe we need to update the doc, that it can be run in English lang only as of now ?07:59
Casanovai knew only now ;)08:00
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seb128nags: right, that works now ;)08:00
narasim_7nags: Srini said he would take up updating the doc once gedit was over08:00
narasim_7nags: i promised him my help08:00
nagsnarasim_7, cool08:00
nagsseb128, wow !08:01
nagsnarasim_7, you are going to get good review comments from seb128 :)08:01
seb128nags: I'm not good with metacity focus stealing prevention things, /j #bugs on GIMPnet and ask to elijah, he's the metacity maintainer and reply to questions in a detailled and friendly way usually08:01
narasim_7nags: :-)08:01
seb128ok, guy, thank you for giving a hand to set that up ;)08:02
nagsseb128, ya, but these days could not get in touch with him08:02
seb128I've to go for dinner now but I'll play with that and let you know how it works for me08:02
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nagsseb128, wow !08:02
nagsseb128, sure08:02
seb128nags: he spoke 20min ago on #bugs so he might be around ;)08:03
seb128nags: better to ask what you have to ask than just "ping" though, some people tend to not reply to ping without context when they are busy because they don't know if they are interested to start a discussion on an unknow topic ;)08:03
nagsseb128, let me check now08:03
seb128anyway I've to run08:03
seb128thank you again08:03
nagsseb128, ya right :)08:04
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Royal-team190 personnes et personne parle ?08:44
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BenClinux-source-2.6.17: edgy ia64   Chroot problem08:48
BenCin case anyone wants to know08:48
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infinityBenC: Already fixed.08:59
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bluefoxicySo if i wanted to suggest something really dumb09:17
bluefoxicylike say09:18
bluefoxicyAllowing ShipIt users to request CD-RWs instead of real pressed CDs09:18
bluefoxicywhere would I suggest this?09:18
bluefoxicy(Ubuntu 6.06.1?  What am I supposed to order new CDs or something?)09:18
KeybukI'm not entirely sure that is possible ... the CDs are pressed by a CD distribution plant09:18
mjrnot gonna happen09:18
KeybukI doubt they can even do CD-RW09:18
bddebianHow about asking in #IwannauseGentoo09:19
Keybukand you can get all of 6.06.1 from the archive as usual09:19
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SurakI noticed that cdimage.ubuntu.com has only 6.06.1 DVD images.09:23
ChipzzI know this is most likely more an upstream issue than an ubuntu issue09:23
Chipzzbut is there a reason why the network applet in gnome-system-tools doesn't show my profiles anymore?09:24
Chipzzare we going to switch to the network-manager applet for edgy?09:24
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seb128Casanova: is the ldtp script supposed to give any sort of output or just use gedit?09:32
Casanovaseb128: in the gedit-run.xml file there is a tag called <logfile>09:33
Casanovathe output is an xml file specified within that tag09:33
seb128ah, ok09:33
seb128is there some documentation on ldtp or some sort of faq?09:34
Casanovaseb128: http://ldtp.freedesktop.org/user-doc/index.html09:34
Casanovaseb128: http://ldtp.freedesktop.org/wiki/FAQ09:34
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seb128thank you09:34
Casanovaseb128: http://ldtp.freedesktop.org/wiki/LDTPEditor/GeneratingLDTPDataXMLfileformat http://ldtp.freedesktop.org/wiki/LDTPEditor/GeneratingldtprunnerXMLfileformat09:34
=== Casanova searches for more urls to dump to seb128 ;)
seb128that should be enough, thank you :)09:35
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pygisivang, poke10:52
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jdahlindoko: ping11:03
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dokojdahlin: pong11:08
jdahlindoko: what's the primary use case for linking python dynamically instead of statically?11:08
jdahlinthis number 6% worries me a little bit11:09
dokojdahlin: ask jamesh :-)11:09
jdahlindoko: then I probably know what it is11:09
jdahlinbeing able to use a library from python which has python plugins11:10
dokoyeah, you need to avoid two copies of the interpreter, which can happen, if things get dynamically loaded11:10
jdahlinto avoid starting two interpreters11:10
jdahlinhowever, it's possible to avoid that by dlopening libpython11:10
jdahlinwhich is what nautilus-python does11:10
jdahlingstreamer and gnome-vfs are two real uses cases otherwise11:11
dokoor building python as a PIE, which I didn't try yet11:11
jdahlinboth of them have python bindings and python plugin support11:11
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jameshjdahlin: if you have two pieces of code that have linked Python statically (or one static + one dynamic), there are two copies of the Python interpreter11:18
jameshbuilding python as a PIE is a way to make /usr/bin/python the same as /usr/lib/pythonX.Y.so11:19
jdahlinjamesh: right, but are there any important libraries or program that does that apart from /usr/bin/python ?11:20
jdahlinand should you not avoid linking to libpython.so directly just because of that?11:20
jdahlin[for extension modules] 11:20
jameshjdahlin: ideally everything would link to libpython.so (including python)11:20
jameshalthough there is a performance penalty11:21
jdahlinjamesh: ideally because it's good practice or because it creates real world problems?11:21
jameshjdahlin: because it avoids the problem all together.  If everything links to a dynamic libpython, then there is only one copy of the interpreter11:23
jdahlinjamesh: right, but it is possible to workaround it11:23
jdahlinso, in the case of gst-python11:24
jdahlinwhich can be loaded by /usr/bin/python and by gstpythonloader through a normal C application11:24
jdahlinin the case of /usr/bin/python you can access the symbols directly11:25
jdahlinfor the gst plugin you can check if it's available dlsym(dlopen(NULL), "Py_None")11:25
jdahlinand if it's not just dlopen(/usr/lib/libpython.so)11:25
jameshugly hack ...11:25
jdahlinI found it quite neat ;-)11:26
jdahlinbut the use case is limited, I don't think any real applications has actually run into this11:27
jameshwhat if another copy of the interpreter gets loaded without RTLD_GLOBAL?11:28
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jameshyour solution works in a limited number of situations (arguably a useful number of situations though)11:28
jdahlinwouldn't that be a bug?11:29
jdahlinin the specific library or application11:29
jameshit is a bug that can occur because there is a static libpython :)11:29
jdahlinbut why would anyone do that anyway?11:31
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jameshjdahlin: people do all kinds of crazy shit.11:34
jameshjdahlin: anyway, I need to pack up for my flight tomorrow11:35
jdahlinjamesh: good luck with the laptop11:35
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