[12:10] sigh [12:10] and dh_clideps is no longer? [12:11] I'll go and check that later [12:11] nothing urgent === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-64-26-167-82.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@203.23.49.35] has joined #ubuntu-motu === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-motu === neutrinomass [n=pandis@ppp26-100.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ajmitch [n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Gazer [n=gazer@mail.aktiv-assekuranz.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:04] (I asked this earlier but no one responded so I apologise for spamming) Are inline changes acceptable to fix typos/other minor issues ? === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:14] Heya gang [01:14] Hi bddebian [01:14] Hello Fujitsu === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-motu === micahcowan [n=micahcow@69.36.252.2] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Leaving"] [01:15] Dang it, how do I read MemoServ messages? === ash211 [n=ash211@user-1121p1j.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:15] /msg memoserv read 1 or read all [01:15] Ah, thx [01:15] s/all/last === MatthewV [n=MatthewV@CPE-124-178-82-77.wa.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:22] hey Hobbsee [01:22] hello Hobbsee [01:22] heya [01:23] Hi Hobbsee. [01:24] dont seem to have broken my system too badly [01:24] ? [01:25] i was messing with it earlier [01:25] Ah. Doing what? [01:25] Hm. [01:25] Maybe she did mess it up :P === dooglus [n=dooglus@rincevent.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:26] heh === Fujitsu rubs his eyes... [01:27] I can't be seeing this... [01:27] They announced the Community Council meeting more than 24 hours in advance? [01:28] surely not [01:29] Heya ajmitch [01:29] its only community council :) [01:29] hello [01:29] ANd it's at 2am :( [01:30] sounds fair === ajmitch will skip it [01:31] noooo.. [01:31] anyone know of a well done (meaning packaging) python app for me to look at? [01:31] mutagen. [01:31] Thanks crimsun [01:31] Hi btw [01:33] di [01:33] err, hi [01:33] You want me to die? :'-( [01:33] :-) === vorbote [n=vorbote@unaffiliated/vorbote] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:41] does anybody know much about QuinnStorm's Compiz packages? [01:41] yes === imbrandon points to ajmitch [01:42] on the most recent update, apt only wants to update compiz and compiz-gnome, but not compiz-kde [01:42] (I'm running kde) [01:43] before all three updated [01:43] in any case, it's an external repository [01:43] updating the compiz package will remove compiz-kde [01:43] it's best for you to ask in #ubuntu-xgl [01:43] you'll probably get told to use compiz & cgwd [01:43] i'll do that [01:43] cgwd ? [01:44] imbrandon: yes [01:44] gnome win deco ? [01:44] supposedly 'generic' [01:44] ahh [01:44] meant to replace {gnome,kde}-window-decorator [01:45] does it currently work better [01:45] no idea === imbrandon_ [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-motu === DarkMageZ [n=DarkMage@59.167.24.250] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:53] here's some info in cgwd: http://compiz.blogspot.com/2006/07/new-window-decorator.html === vorbote [n=vorbote@unaffiliated/vorbote] has left #ubuntu-motu ["You] === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:02] Do Python packages have to be python-foo? [02:02] Heya LaserJock [02:03] hi bddebian [02:03] whats the current standards version? [02:03] 3.7.2 I think [02:03] 3.7.2 afaik [02:03] 3.7.2, I'm pretty sure. === welshbyte [n=welshbyt@cpc3-cwma2-0-0-cust276.swan.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:05] kk, ty [02:05] it's unanimous :) [02:07] hmm, well I decided to reinstall OS X on my iMac this afternoon :/ [02:07] maybe it wasn't the best timing [02:07] ??? === poningru [n=poningru@pool-71-251-119-70.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:08] well, you know how the first time you try an OS you trash it with all kinds of junk? [02:08] or is it only me that does it? [02:08] everyone does it =D [02:09] yep, everyone does [02:09] ok, so this is my first reinstall of OS X [02:10] I remember, my first install of FC... 3 I think... I had selected full install... 6GB of junk installed... [02:10] my science teacher is a big mac fan.. despises windows with a pation :) [02:10] with Gentoo I never could get over it :-) [02:10] that's why I had to jump ship for Ubuntu [02:11] get over ??? [02:11] I always had > 9 GB of stuff on my Gentoo box [02:11] and recompiling it all the time was a pain [02:11] heh [02:11] "The computer is your slave, not the other way around" is how I look at Gentoo [02:12] not for me [02:12] I couldn't take it anymore, every time I got KDE done compiling they'd come out with another one to try ;-) [02:12] i've been building packages recently, it's great fun, cept when things don't work :( [02:13] DarkMageZ: yeah... and then afterwards, when you aren't a programmer, and someone reports a bug.. [02:13] LaserJock: I had that thing too.... with an 800 Mhz Duron :P (I even went into the trouble of compiling -r1 versions ) [02:13] you have to figure out whats wrong... [02:13] oh, i'm never going to distribute my packages for the sake of sanity =D [02:13] DarkMageZ: I'm going to send up a couple... but no way I'm sending up 20+ like some people [02:14] except with a *this package may kill millions of people* sticker :) [02:14] lol, yeah [02:14] !packaging guide [02:14] The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources [02:14] now, that could be useful! [02:14] I have my own repos... built with .seveas's software... highly unstable... with big flashy text with warnings and all... legal junk [02:15] i have 3 packages sofar. dosbox 0.65 & xchat 2.6.6 & rhythmbox 0.9.5 ( + cvs + ubuntu changes ) [02:16] cept the xchat package & the rhythmbox package won't install side by side, but hopefully something in the packaging guide will help me fix that [02:16] I have 2... typespeed 0.51 (which will never make it into repos), and gnome-clipboard-manager, which I'm waiting for upstream to change the name to clipboard-manager... and I'm working on a finance app [02:17] would http://eqonomize.sourceforge.net/ go into "mathematics", or "kde"? [02:18] it's a personal finance app [02:20] kde === lakin [n=lakin@S01060013101832ce.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:41] anyone know how i'd go about building my packages differently to avoid error's like http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20234 === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-motu === hub [n=hub@toronto-hs-216-138-231-194.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:58] what's the correct naming scheme for a package that didn't start off in debian? foo_0.4.2ubuntu1 ? [02:58] !versioning [02:58] Ubuntu and Debian have slightly different package versioning schemes, for an explanation see http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html#id2528873 === welshbyte reads === freeflying [n=freeflyi@221.221.160.148] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:59] MOTU School Session in #ubuntu-motu-school is about to start [02:59] how convenient :) [03:00] ooh [03:00] wtf === redguy [n=mati@acm101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _jaldhar [n=jaldhar@c-68-38-202-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === carthik [n=carthik@pdpc/supporter/student/carthik] has joined #ubuntu-motu === abelcheung__ [n=abelcheu@221.126.145.245] has joined #ubuntu-motu === theCore [n=alex@modemcable014.200-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Kilz [n=Ki8lz@c-67-175-233-209.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:36] So what do I do about --prefix=foo screwing up the path in in the binary? [03:36] bddebian: patch :) [03:36] whats this for? [03:37] bddebian: you use --prefix=/usr [03:38] ajmitch: That's not what mutagen does. [03:38] Lathiat: bkchem [03:39] iirc you use --prefix=/usr and make install DESTDIR [03:39] or somethign like that? [03:39] It's a python package using setup.py, there really isn't a install [03:39] mutagen's debian/rules doesn't even specify --prefix [03:40] python ./setup.py install --prefix debian/python-mutagen/usr [03:40] From mutagen [03:41] you appear to have a different mutagen than I do then [03:41] This is dappers [03:41] right [03:41] and since we're doing edgy stuff, I looked at the package in edgy [03:42] Well I don't have an edgy machine handy === theCore [n=alex@modemcable014.200-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:27] What is the most appropriate way to install extra files (ie desktop and icon) in a cdbs package? [04:29] hi bddebian [04:30] you can use a .install file, you won't have to change debian/rules this way [04:31] Hi Gloubiboulga [04:32] Will .install work in addition to whatever exists? [04:32] I think so [04:32] OK, I wasn't sure. Thanks [04:32] np :) [04:36] Gloubiboulga: Oh, crap but I need to cp images/icon.png to usr/share/pixmaps/bkchem.png and I have never had success with that in .install files. Just do a cp in rules? [04:37] bddebian, a cp should work fine :) [04:37] I'm not sure that dh_install can rename files [04:37] Aye === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:42] Grr fsck [04:42] Heya Hobbsee [04:44] hi bddebian [04:47] rules doesn't like install -D or cp because there are no targets :'-( === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee wonders just how badly she killed her system === micahcowan [n=micahcow@69.36.252.2] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@203.23.49.35] has joined #ubuntu-motu === LaserJock runs for the bathroom, too much pop and a 2 hr MOTU Session [04:54] ;-) [04:54] hehe [04:55] haha [04:55] LaserJock: how'd it go? the motu session [04:56] IMO it was ++good === TheMuso was in there for a little while. [04:56] And actually learnt something new. :) [04:56] TheMuso: nice! [04:56] I never kneww zless / z-other cool stuff existed. [04:56] like zipgrep === Rea_ [i=rea@212.200.119.32] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee learnt not to rm -rf ~ without having a full backup of it first, not just a half one. [04:57] heh [04:57] What happened? [04:57] yikes [04:57] Heheheh. I remember what I did a few years back... [04:57] TheMuso: well, i'm going to put a clean copy of edgy on there. had a bit of trouble copying the semi-backup [04:57] I wanted to remove all the hidden things from some directory. [04:58] seems that i can access everything now, before the reformat, except my email [04:58] So I ran, as root, `rm -rf .*' [04:58] *ouch* [04:58] I didn't expect it would go up the tree >_< [04:58] it *doesnt* [04:58] does it? [04:58] It did, I'm pretty sure. But that was 6 years ago. [04:58] I can't remember very well... === Hobbsee runs rm -rf * often. [04:58] in the devel directory, or whatever [04:59] Hobbsee: You didn't loose email did you === Hobbsee headdesks. [04:59] oh noooo....... [04:59] one time I wanted to remove all those pesky emacs backup files, normally I would run, rm *~ but I accidently did rm * ~ [04:59] TheMuso: you bet [05:00] ouch! [05:00] what?????????? === Hobbsee goes off swearing and cursing === Hobbsee seems to have lost at least .gnupg and .thunderbird [05:01] well I wiped my machine this afternoon [05:01] but I meant to do it [05:01] LaserJock: so did i, but not a few crucial folders! [05:01] Hobbsee: I hope you have .gnupg stored somewhere safe. [05:02] TheMuso: finding it [05:02] Right. [05:02] Howd this all happen? [05:02] Hobbsee: if its absolutely necessary you know you can recover it right? === welshbyte gets stuck into the debian python policy [05:02] err not sure if you have ext2 [05:03] poningru: nope, but i should be able to recover it from here [05:03] fairly sure it's ext3 [05:03] welshbyte: I think we all have recently ;-) [05:04] they dropped a bomb huh? :) [05:04] well, it's just that it isn't exactly straightforward to me what I actually have to do [05:04] I can read through the thing [05:05] but I'm not always sure what applies, etc. [05:05] can anyone say to linspire just use d-i :D [05:05] anyway, I've transitioned a package I maintain in Debian [05:05] and it went ok [05:05] or heck even use ubiquity :D [05:06] TheMuso: got it back :) [05:06] TheMuso: as for my email though.... === Hobbsee cries. [05:06] LaserJock: maybe i'm out of my depth with python, as a packaging newbie then... :/ [05:06] no [05:07] it's probably better as a newbie :-) [05:07] welshbyte: Nah, I'm doing one right now and I'm a clueless moron [05:07] bddebian: so i've heard ;) [05:07] TheMuso: because i was an idiot, and tried to do things the short way. [05:08] welshbyte: Ah, word has finally gotten around eh? :-) [05:08] very fast :) === Hobbsee really cries. [05:09] hey Hobbsee [05:09] hi zul_ [05:09] bddebian: well it's hard not to when you spread it yourself ;-) === Hobbsee really didnt back up her email. === bddebian pokes LaserJock [05:10] Hobbsee: I know how it feels. [05:10] I had a drive die on me in January, and i hadn't backed up important stuff since October. [05:10] TheMuso: i got .gnupg back though. [05:10] heh [05:10] ouch [05:10] So I lost stuff as well [05:11] TheMuso: half of my trouble is that i dont remember what i lost [05:11] Good you got your keys back. [05:11] heh [05:11] Hobbsee: at least you know you should have a good backup plan now === TheMuso looks forward to the day he can switch all his email to imap. [05:11] TheMuso: yeah, exactly. [05:11] Just need to get around to doing it. [05:11] zul: hah. or just actually check the backup first before using rm -rf a bit [05:11] or that too [05:11] TheMuso: yeah, i wish. half of my email is like that. [05:12] i did the other day now i'm lovin it [05:12] ( moved it all to imap ) === welshbyte gets paranoid and runs a website and email backup [05:13] hehe [05:13] heh...if google goes down im screwed [05:14] I wish gmail had imap. === Hobbsee continues to cry. [05:14] TheMuso: yeah, me too. did someone ever find a way around that? [05:14] Not that I know of. [05:15] I know it is certainly one of the most requested gmail features. [05:15] definetly === TheMuso intends to move his email to imap when he moves his domain over. [05:15] work time. [05:16] hmmm... [05:16] if they're stubborn about not offering imap someone could set up a service to fetchmail from google accounts and serve the email up from imap.. should be pretty simple [05:16] bddebian: what did you want me to check? === Hobbsee wonders about moving her @kubuntu.org somehow to an imap server. [05:16] oh well [05:16] Have fun at work. [05:16] Hobbsee: i can help you do that later when you get home [05:16] later [05:16] ajmitch: Just see if my upload went up? [05:16] imbrandon: Rock on Dreamhost!! :) [05:16] imbrandon: that'd be cool [05:16] bddebian: that means telling me what it is [05:16] ouch i made a booboo [05:17] Oh, hehe, sorry bkchem [05:17] TheMuso: exactly ;) [05:17] bddebian: 0.11.4-0ubuntu1 ? [05:17] ajmitch: Aye [05:17] it's listed on the revu page [05:17] imbrandon: The only thing I don't like about their email, is that they *Make* you move old email from your inbox to another folder. [05:17] Oh, I see it now, sorry [05:17] ajmitch: ^ [05:17] TheMuso: will, or wont do [05:17] TheMuso: i'll be thinking about whatever else i've lost [05:17] Hobbsee: hehe [05:18] hahaha [05:18] shiznit, ajmitch you have main privs right ? i need to make a trivial fix to something that i got uploaded earlier [05:18] It happens to the best of us [05:18] bddebian: doh, did you do bkchem? [05:18] LaserJock: Aye, should I not have? [05:18] http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2871 [05:18] kinda === jaldhar_ [n=jaldhar@c-68-38-202-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:18] azeem and I would like to get it into Debian [05:19] and there is a guy that has a Debian package [05:19] imbrandon: put the debdiff on malone [05:19] LaserJock: So take it, fix it and upload it to Debian :-) [05:19] Oh [05:19] ajmitch: kk [05:19] but he hasn't gotten it into Debian === bddebian gives up [05:19] again? [05:19] bddebian: well, I wouldn't mind seeing it in Edgy to start with, I have no idea when it'll hit Debian [05:20] but it might get synced in the end [05:21] man this python policy is written in legalese, someone should translate it to english.. can we put it in rosetta? [05:21] lol [05:22] python is still evil [05:22] grr wth, why do i keep getting this when i add a line to debian/rules " debian/rules:64: *** missing separator (did you mean TAB instead of 8 spaces?). Stop. " and no i dident use tab [05:22] the first thing to do is to figure out what kind of package you are doing [05:22] welshbyte: is this a Python library, or an application written in Python? [05:23] LaserJock: application.. in python/glade [05:23] imbrandon: im guessing it doesnt like something at lie 64 [05:23] zul: yea heh thats the line i'm adding , but it /looks/ ok , drivin me nuts [05:23] welshbyte: ok, then that's a bit easier [05:24] phew [05:24] welshbyte: check out http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy [05:24] right im off to bed [05:25] welshbyte: and I'd go for the python-central option (although it really doesn't matter a whole lot in the end) [05:25] ajmitch: Yes again [05:26] LaserJock: great, thanks for the tips :) [05:26] np, I aim to please ;-) [05:27] I'm on a packaging buzz right now [05:27] LaserJock, packaging master [05:27] no no [05:28] master of masters? === bddebian goes back to picking his nose [05:28] thanks for that bddebian [05:28] I'm getting a little better, I think, but I certainly don't know a whole lot about packaging [05:28] yet you hold sessions teaching others - you obviously know enough [05:29] bddebian: why? whats wrong with your old one? [05:29] nobody asked the "What is ${shlibs:Depends} and what does it do"? [05:29] ;-) [05:29] unfortunate [05:30] but you explained it anyway? [05:30] I didn't [05:30] why not? [05:30] I was running out of time fast [05:30] I see [05:30] it took 2 hrs as it was [05:30] but I at least have an idea of what it is [05:31] and could do a lot of hand waving [05:31] you should have more than an idea [05:31] you should be intimately familiar [05:31] of course I *should* [05:31] but in practicality I've never had to deal with it [05:31] it just works [05:32] that bit looks pretty guessable anyway... adds the shared libraries that your package uses as dependencies? [05:32] until it doesn't [05:32] welshbyte: understanding the magic behind it is another matter [05:32] ajmitch: sure [05:33] which is sort of what I covered in my talk, all those years ago [05:33] yeah [05:33] which everyone has gladly forgotten about :) [05:33] the problem is you can't get through everything in a reasonable amount of time [05:33] ajmitch: I haven't forgotten [05:33] ajmitch: I plan on using it in the packaging guide [05:34] at least making sure it covers what you did [05:34] you'll want to check on anything mentioned then [05:34] to check for accuracy [05:34] I'll want you (and all the MOTUs) to check the Packaging Guide for accuracy [05:34] ;-) [05:35] of course there are other fun fields to use now [05:35] like ${cli: Depends} [05:35] it's a full time job just keeping up with all this stuff [05:35] but if someone is packaging mono stuff they really have to read the cli policy for debian, which is still officially unofficial :) [05:36] yeah, it seems like there are a lot of unofficial policies [05:36] and it's your job as MOTU teacher to keep up with them all [05:37] yep [05:37] :/ [05:37] the test is tomorrow, I hope you studied [05:37] ajmitch: did dh_clideps change? [05:37] hub: from what to what? [05:37] it would be interesting to do a whole MOTU School session on dh_* [05:38] ajmitch: it fails to build here [05:38] hub: it's in cli-common-dev now [05:38] ajmitch: or has the moved out of cli-common? [05:38] ah ok === bddebian creates a LaserJockistheRealGod wiki and hands over the reigns [05:38] bddebian: you can't [05:38] bah, whatever [05:38] ajmitch: Why the hell not? [05:38] bddebian: noone can match your wisdom [05:38] you could teach that in your sleep [05:38] ajmitch: I just need to replace cli-common by cli-common-dev? [05:39] hub: yep [05:39] thanks [05:39] ajmitch: Oh, that's funny [05:39] adding a watch file makes a lot of work === LaserJock starts chanting "I am not worthy, I am not worthy" in bddebian [05:39] 's direction [05:39] Yeah right man :-) [05:39] ;-) [05:39] LaserJock: don't forget the grovelling [05:40] /o\ [05:40] \o/ [05:40] /o\ [05:40] that's my cool ASCII art version of grovelling [05:40] o< [05:41] that doesnt really work so wel [05:41] l [05:42] wow, and I get to do it all over again in 13 hrs :-) [05:42] lucky you [05:42] I wasn't quite that crazy [05:43] well those Europeans whined so much ;-) [05:43] plus I doubt I'll get to do a session again [05:43] why not? [05:43] I scared people off for most of a year after the last one === LaserJock signs ajmitch up for the "Packaging done right" session === bddebian doubts that [05:43] plus there's nothing I can teach [05:44] What is ${shlibs:Depends} and what does it do? [05:44] ;-) [05:44] already covered it === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:44] "mono for the rest of us"? [05:44] I don't think I'm brave enough to talk about library packaging [05:45] "How to review, and mean it"? [05:45] slomo would be better for that === ajmitch doesn't do reviews [05:45] yeah, I need to get slomo to do one [05:45] "How to be a slacker, and win"? [05:45] hah [05:45] that's more my style [05:45] except I don't win ;) [05:46] imbrandon: got your debdiff on malone yet? [05:46] ajmitch: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ktorrent/+bug/55969 <-- can you sponsor that please, very trivial upload [05:46] Malone bug 55969 in ktorrent "ktorrent 2.0 wont install / upgrade in edgy" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] [05:46] heh [05:46] hehe [05:46] timing.. [05:47] spell things right in the changelog, please :) [05:47] gah one sec [05:47] 'after upstream installer bit' [05:47] very technical language, that [05:47] ajmitch: "spelling for packagers"? [05:48] hehe [05:48] "how to be pedantic & annoy people" [05:48]