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I'm trying out a new IRC client === viper550 [n=viper550@d57-121-167.home.cgocable.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["So] === bersace|realeasi is now known as bersace|releasin === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nixternal__ [n=nixterna@c-71-194-189-213.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bersace|releasin is now known as bersace === nixternal___ [n=nixterna@c-71-194-189-213.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Rippon [n=dan@c-71-231-164-136.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nixternal__ [n=nixterna@c-71-194-189-213.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Rippon [n=dan@c-71-231-164-136.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nixternal___ [n=nixterna@c-71-194-189-213.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nixternal____ [n=nixterna@c-71-194-189-213.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Rippon [n=dan@c-71-231-164-136.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Rippon [n=dan@c-71-231-164-136.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Ex-Chat"] === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:26] sorry for the floods earlier, as it seems my router was nailed... === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bersace [n=bersace@did75-13-82-243-217-90.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === mhb [n=mhb@64.73.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [10:08] hi folks === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === mhb [n=mhb@64.73.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === andreasn [n=andreas@h23n2fls33o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === msikma [n=msikma@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bmrtin [n=bmrtin@ip68-1-153-101.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bmrtin [n=bmrtin@ip68-1-153-101.mc.at.cox.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] === viper550 [n=viper550@d57-121-167.home.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === viper550 [n=viper550@d57-121-167.home.cgocable.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["So] === msikma [n=msikma@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:39] Hi everybody [05:48] ping troy_s [05:48] hi msikma === cbx33 just watched the interview with Mark on More4 [06:08] dang it, if I'd have done the startup sounds last release [06:08] they'd have been on the news :p === msikma [n=msikma@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [06:30] I think my Photoshop just hung [07:03] :( - photoshop 6 doesn't run on dapper :( [07:03] it ran on breezy [07:06] blah photoshop... how you doing cbx? [07:06] pong cbx33 [07:07] hi troy_s was gonna ask if you heard the latest sound? [07:07] I also just posted to the ML to try to get some more feedback, and got one already :D [07:07] Yes... right now the primary concern is developing a palette [07:08] So that the CC can steer the direction [07:08] and development can follow a formal procedure. [07:09] you still don't think the palette is big enough? [07:10] I think it is getting closer. What is probably best is providing a diverse set of directions (without the polishing tweaks) [07:10] Then canvas the CC for which ones work and don't. [07:11] I've stopped polishing now [07:11] ok [07:11] I see Jono has stpped out of the ring [07:11] Yes. [07:11] He is a Canonical employee now in a different area. [07:11] I know [07:11] :p [07:12] One of my buddies who is working at EA took a listen to the sounds. [07:12] oh? [07:12] feedback? [07:13] Yes, I'll send you some when they are complete. [07:13] please [07:13] He has also scored films. [07:13] I would be very very interested in those [07:13] nice, something I would love to do one day [07:13] Originally, he suggested that they felt a bit synthy -- which is something I tried to communicate as well. [07:14] The percussion work is interesting. [07:14] good good [07:14] did you say he is creating some too? [07:14] But again, all of the 'comments' are irrelevant -- the CC is all that matter. [07:14] Yes. [07:14] true [07:14] He will try to get some out. [07:15] heh [07:15] I'd better work harder then [07:15] No... his will most certainly expand the palette primarily. === cbx33 imagines expand and conquer :p [07:16] I wish I had more resources [07:16] No. He has been doing it for quite a while, and has a fine arts education as well. [07:16] He is very professional... [07:16] That means that he is quite skilled at collaborative development as well. === bersace [n=bersace@did75-13-82-243-217-90.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [07:17] Hello [07:17] Who is peter savage ? [07:17] Seems like bersace likes the percussion ones as well... :) [07:17] cbx33 [07:17] cbx33: hello [07:17] Our sound developer. [07:17] troy_s: thanks [07:17] :) [07:18] bersace, me [07:18] Our *great* sound devloper ! [07:18] Percussion is working well... I would say cent and beat are working well. [07:18] thanky bersace :D [07:18] cbx33: i think that we should modify a little the rhythm of the Organic one [07:18] in fact [07:19] yeh? [07:19] the feel of two speeded up sound is due to the "two short pong" [07:19] at the end of each cycle [07:19] that really hard to explain [07:19] yes [07:19] I know what you mean [07:19] especially in english when you are french [07:19] Polishing is a ways off :) [07:19] So don't obsess just yet. [07:20] I would like to see a "Rick Ruben" version of Cent if you can pull it off... [07:20] Strip it bare [07:20] if you joint the two last "pong" of each cycle, that will make it less speedy without adding seconds :) [07:20] troy_s: ok [07:20] bersace, i get it [07:21] Let's just roll with the progress, expand the palette, and keep things simple. [07:21] instead of dum da dum daaa da da dum ---dum da dum daaa dum [07:21] Further, we would need a wiki page of distinct ideas. [07:22] (as in pair the set down into the distinct variations, and keep the sub variations off for quick scanning as the CC is pretty damn busy as one can expect. [07:22] ok [07:22] sorry for the polishing coments:) [07:22] i really think that "organic" is a good theme for edgy [07:22] troy_s, that was my intention with just having the blocks fro a sound style [07:23] bersace, I already have it on my dapper machine [07:23] :p [07:23] bersace is one of our artwork wiki wizards [07:23] cbx33: lol [07:23] pretty sure he could help you get the page into a scanning format [07:23] and Message Received is a great tone for a mobile SMS tone [07:23] yep [07:23] bersace, be my guest [07:25] troy_s: note that this case is exactly where i can help : i'm not an artist, not a content producer (except some artwork like http://openclipart.org/incoming/jaguar__tienne_bersac_03.svg or http://openclipart.org/incoming/loup__tienne_bersac_01.svg) [07:26] i can help polishing :) [07:26] heheh ;) [07:26] well even if it doesn't get picked [07:26] I can make a polished version just for you bersace :p [07:26] cbx33: and for you ! [07:26] :) [07:26] that would be nice [07:26] Yep polishing will come [07:27] but again, we have a strict set of 'clients' to hit [07:27] and those clients are the ones who will decide things... without their support, polishing and steering is all in vain. [07:27] So basically what I am proposing is to get the "Ponder/Brainstorm" idea pool on the table. [07:28] And then I'll try to get the 'clients' to have a peep at the cumulative list. [07:28] troy_s: sorry, but who are "clients" ? [07:28] sabdfl ? [07:28] The CC [07:28] sabdfl included. [07:28] As we must always remember, Ubuntu is not a democracy ;) [07:28] Which is also why it has been so successful. [07:29] of course [07:29] Slow and steady will win the race. [07:29] And remember the golden rule of design: 80:20 [07:29] so clients want "slow and steady" ? [07:29] hehehe [07:29] Well no, I would suggest that we are new and growing... so we just move at the pace that we can deliver. [07:30] bersace, nice play on words there :p [07:30] 80% of most system's issues are caused by 20% of the factors. [07:30] which means that with our limited resources, if we can identify the 20%, we can focus on those items. The rest is the point of diminishing returns. [07:30] yep and 80% of world wealth is own by 20% of people [07:30] :P [07:31] i like the rule of 80:20 :) [07:31] bersace: exactly. In fact, there are many studies on it... === bersace search steady in english-french dic === bersace found [07:31] ok [07:31] steady == constant == [07:32] ok [07:32] uniform. [07:32] etc. [07:32] i know [07:32] i read :) [07:32] that's exactly what i'm not ! [07:32] 80:20 == Pareto's Principle. [07:32] but this is why i need such mentor like you troy_s :) [07:32] Seminal work on 80:20 "Quality Control Handbook" Joseph M. Juran [07:33] McGraw-Hill, 1951 [07:33] blah === troy_s is just another idiot who happens to think Ubuntu is very important. [07:35] I do think the CC will be most imporessed that cbx33's work is dedicated on Ubuntu. [07:35] I sure hope so [07:35] Well it is important from a philosophical level as well really... [07:36] How can you propose a 'switch' to an operating system that you can't even really support 100% yourself? [07:37] Ockham's Razor: Given a choice between functionality equivalent designs, the simplest design should be selected. ;) [07:39] So keep those palette entries as simple as they need to be to communicate your sound cbx33 -- no simpler. === cbx33 has just come up with another [07:40] :D [07:40] Great. [07:41] troy_s: what do you mean by palette ? [07:41] the set of sounds ? [07:42] the set of variation of each sounds ? [07:42] Yes... a 'range of colours' of sound so that the CC can say "X Y and Z are good directions -- continue that way" [07:42] Which eliminates all the rest, and is good for refinement. [07:42] Same technique as with traditional graphic art proposals. [07:44] troy_s: what is the big Comments table in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds just after organic ? [07:46] bersace, that was my fault [07:46] they were all comments on that one there [07:46] theme [07:46] but for some reason it centered it [07:47] ok [07:47] cbx33: what is the "Note:" ? [07:47] on some I add a note about the sound [07:48] Let bersace go in there and cull. [07:48] He is very good at cleaning up wiki messes... [07:48] also bersace, the 'Incoming' directory of the wiki is getting clogged a bit... perhaps you have some ideas on what should stay etc... [07:48] and where to finalize localization. [07:55] cbx33: what did you comment ? [07:55] which variation ? [07:55] bersace, ? [07:55] which one? [07:56] i'm talking about the comments mess at the end of UbuntuSounds [07:56] and the strange "Notes:" line [07:56] on what do this refer to ? [07:56] all Organic ? [07:56] only a variant ? [07:56] all organic [07:56] "Notes:" too ? [07:58] yes [08:06] Great to have bersace back in the fold. [08:07] You can see why eh cbx33? ;) [08:07] troy_s: did you see http://gnome-scanning.blogspot.com/ ? [08:09] ok, i rework organic comments [08:09] the problem is that MoinMoin table doesn't support of normal tags embedding [08:09] a cell can only contain a one line. :( [08:13] bersace: Wow. [08:13] bersace, yes [08:13] I hate that [08:13] You can make canon scanners work with open source??? [08:13] How do I make my bloody 5000F work? [08:14] Just use headings [08:14] Tables are too hard to adjust. [08:14] Headings are far more useful, and the table of contents automagically update them. [08:16] yes [08:16] i'll do it [08:17] bersace: Do you know of a way to get canon scanners up under os operating systems? [08:17] i'm just writing a replacement of xsane [08:17] so if xsane doesn't support your device, gnomescan won't [08:18] ask #sane [08:18] ah [08:23] troy_s: canon is known to ship inexistent or bad driver for each OSes and particularily for Free OSs [08:24] but FOSS offer a quite good support of canon device, considering the pain of writin all that drivers. [08:27] bersace, you still editing the wiki? [08:27] I have a new sound to add [08:28] cbx33: wait a minute [08:28] kk [08:30] submitting [08:30] ok [08:30] done [08:31] ok [08:31] please follow the new guideline :) [08:31] stoooooop ! [08:31] cbx33: stooooopp !!! [08:31] let me make a last mod [08:31] ok [08:32] hehe [08:33] troy_s: i'm adding UbuntuSounds to CategoryArtwork [08:33] Since there is not ubuntu-sound team, i guess that's a good choice [08:33] bersace, there is an Ubunt Audio team [08:33] but it seems pretty dead [08:33] hmm. [08:33] bersace, you done editing now? [08:34] yep [08:34] Good idea bersace. [08:34] Only comments thus far are to pair down the existing work. [08:34] Pick ONE of each sample [08:34] and provide it. [08:34] ? [08:35] And add a table of contents of course. [08:35] what does mean "pair down" ? [08:35] Reduce === bersace read dic one more time [08:35] pick the 'best' candidate [08:35] in each 'topic' [08:35] If I manage to get the CC to look at it, [08:36] in that case [08:36] I don't want them spending too long listening to samples that are very similar... [08:36] pick the last one [08:36] And keep the comments in a list format, as that table limitation is painful. [08:36] want me to go through and cull the page? [08:36] troy_s: you mean, i have to highlight the most worked variation of each sound ? [08:36] cbx33, that would be great... [08:36] yeh, troy_s to keep all comments [08:36] cbx33: have you finished ? [08:36] and incase people want to hear the old versions [08:36] bersace, yes [08:36] ok [08:37] keep the others obviously, but let's keep the page streamlined for the CC. [08:37] couldn't we highlight the table row with the latest version? [08:37] TOC, avoid the tables, and provide a spot for @SIG@ comments. [08:37] loooooooool ! [08:37] cbx33: very nice the Christmas theme ^^ [08:37] heheh [08:38] for the ubuntu-calendar-december-audio package :D [08:38] hey, that's a good idea :) [08:38] heheh...noooooooooo [08:39] that's huge work [08:39] indeed it is [08:39] but that's could be nice [08:39] althouht if we came up with a single them tune [08:39] if we have a big ubuntu-audio team [08:39] if we had [08:39] I could do one with different instruments each month [08:39] We have what we have. [08:39] Remember 80:20 and let's get to the 20 [08:39] yeh bersace, you're stuck with just little I at the moment [08:40] All is good. Progress is better than no progress. [08:41] Hey cbx33 [08:41] I listened to some of those opening sounds [08:41] They are totally cool [08:41] yeh? [08:41] thanks msikma [08:41] Have you made any other interface sounds yet? [08:41] no [08:41] but I have some ideas [08:41] I'd like to wait till the theme is chosen before I do that [08:41] 80:20 [08:41] Exactly. [08:41] I also just uploaded another update of PolishHumanGTKTheme: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/PolishHumanGTKTheme/Incoming?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=michielgtk4.png [08:41] and possibly buy/get Canonical to buy/ me a new a sound card and rerecord them all [08:42] Worry about the bigger picture, the smaller details are diminishing returns. [08:42] Do you have any old interface sounds? I'd like to hear them [08:42] msikma, no, they are in my head [08:42] unless you have a mind->wav converter? [08:42] Hmm, too bad. I would have liked to hear them. [08:43] heheh [08:43] you will when the theme gets chosen :p [08:43] msikma, could you provide a quick reply to the ML with your comments [08:44] Comments on your sounds? I put them in the wiki [08:44] ok cool === Rippon [n=dan@c-71-231-164-136.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [08:44] Greetings Rippon [08:45] Hello [08:45] troy_s, cbx33: i added a "File:" field for each composition which point to the latest version [08:45] Great. [08:45] nice bersace [08:46] Rippon, I don't recognize your handle. How long have you been participating? [08:46] thanks for taking the time to help out on that bersace [08:46] hey, that's my job :) [08:46] heheh even so [08:46] :p [08:46] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-art-wiki-re-organisation [08:47] bersace, I'm hoping to do some wiki reorganisation of the LTSP documentation === Rippon [n=dan@c-71-231-164-136.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Ex-Chat"] [08:49] Did the cull finish? [08:49] take a look [08:49] tell us what you think === msikma replied on ml to the sounds [08:49] thanks msikma [08:50] Did he move it to sub /Artwork? [08:50] I think that they're awesome, but that some of them are a little bit too long than I would expect them to be. [08:50] or is it still at UbuntuSounds [08:50] msikma, yes, it's mainly for getting the basis right [08:50] then peole can say I like the fade out [08:50] or like the middle beat etc [08:50] E.g. some of them have an excellent intro, the first few seconds, but then the last few seconds consist of just long synth notes which I believe could fade out earlier. But the general feel is excellent. [08:51] Like, they're not supposed to be finished products already, but they sure feel like it. [08:51] Polishing issues. [08:51] thanks msikma [08:51] I'll polish you in a minute troy_s :p [08:52] That would be nice. [08:52] Although that would take a lot of work. [08:52] heheh [08:53] Great effort on the whole Pete. [08:53] heh [08:54] all I can do is try [08:54] I'll put you into contact with Adam once he finished up getting his title into beta. [08:54] I think his time is at zero for the next couple to few weeks. [08:54] troy_s, my only issue is we are getting very close to freeze [08:54] Although he was looking for inspirational visuals, so if you have anything, forward them to me. [08:54] cbx33 look at the breakdown. [08:54] It is a ways off... [08:55] which is also why focusing on two relatively simple but frequented items stands the potential for inclusion. [08:55] And again, without the CC approval / direction, it is a complete vapour effort. [08:56] troy_s, I wonder, is it worth getting some direction at this point [08:56] they may have some great ideas [08:56] ie fschoep cam up with the idea for "ogranic" [08:56] check the mailing list [08:56] cbx33, good idea. ;) [08:56] ogranic beat + choirs [08:56] think we could pencil it in at the next CC? [08:56] But again, they are busy. [08:56] Well considering that none of us are members, no. [08:58] You might want to consider removing the titles and changing them strictly to numbers. [08:58] ok [08:58] To avoid biasing based on completely unrelated issues. [08:58] true [08:58] And I would strike the xmas one, keep focused. [08:58] it wasn't supposed to be christmas [08:59] my wife commented that they sounded like sleigh bells [08:59] I'll see if I can cut them [08:59] LOL. [08:59] it may sound better [08:59] Or change the name. [08:59] :) [08:59] of course [08:59] You can see my point already probably ;) [08:59] the name implies the thought of christmas [08:59] yes [08:59] Exactly. === bersace is now known as bersace|diner [08:59] Sample00, blah blah. [08:59] troy_s, I'm sure I could get someone to get it onto the agenda for the CC meeting [09:00] brb [09:00] Yes. Frank is in direct liason with the important folks... and thus far the progress in artwork has been substantial enough that it is probably a more direct route. [09:01] I'm sure Frank would like me to get some more direction [09:02] Yes. It is in the works. [09:02] I would say that the palette is at least a good starting point now. [09:02] Which it wasn't before. [09:02] Now if we refine the wiki page so that comments can be added via @SIG@ [09:03] and put a comments section for each _single_ sampling [09:03] we are probably on the way. [09:03] Streamline by removing the tables, providing a comments subheading with point based @SIG@ comments. [09:03] And the rest should fall into place. [09:05] ok, I'll get onto that in a min [09:24] troy_s, what did you mean about the commenta and @sig@? [09:27] what do we do with the comments on the variations? [09:27] cull them and just take comments on final versinos?? [09:29] 1) Heading [09:29] 2) Reference to attachment [09:29] 3) comments sub heading [09:30] 3.1) List based comments -- if you use @SIG@ comment follows here, the wiki automatically puts the date and time in where the @sig@ was [09:30] ah ok [09:30] The tables are just too hard to mainting for comments etc... [09:31] yes [09:31] what about the variations [09:31] did youwant to chop them from the wiki? [09:31] and what happens to commetns on variations>? [09:31] Use your judgement... personally, I found the basics to be more than sufficient. [09:32] Because for the large part the variations are more or less the same to someone taking a casual listen. [09:32] With me? [09:32] yes [09:32] So for CC purposes, pick your fave. [09:32] ok I'll cull them [09:32] what about the comments we had on variations? [09:32] your comments [09:32] :p [09:32] Pick your fave, and err on the side of simplicity to avoid adverse reactions to an effect or something. [09:32] yes [09:32] Well keep those in a backup page. [09:32] I'll just make a backup of the page now [09:32] Simplicity is key here... [09:33] and then edit it [09:33] We want a clear page outlining all of your basic directions, with clear areas for comment. [09:33] yes [09:40] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds [09:49]