[01:56] <sabdfl> how do i update an X authentication key?
[01:57] <sabdfl> I get an "Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key" error trying to run an X app from the command line
[01:58] <jcole> i rebuilt the linux-source-2.6.15 package with all kernels w/skipabi=false... i forgot what i'm to do to the linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 package when building... do i need to change a version somewhere?
[01:59] <keescook> sabdfl: did you change your hostname?  the "xauth" tool will let you examine your current cookies
[02:22] <sabdfl> thanks keescook, that's likely to be it
[02:24] <Hobbsee> hi all
[02:30] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:08] <desrt> zul_; word up.
[03:08] <desrt> zul_; i got xen installed & all.  but when i fire it up i get insta-reboot
[03:09] <HrdwrBoB> desrt: define 'fire up'
[03:10] <desrt> load xen-i386.gz from grub and pass it a kernel
[03:10] <desrt> i get a bunch of normal-looking kernel bootup messages, but prefixed with (XEN) then somewhere in the middle of all of that the machine just reboots
[03:15] <Keybuk> 20088 pts/3    S+     0:00  |   \_ ./init
[03:15] <Keybuk> 20089 ?        Ss     0:00  |       \_ /bin/sh -e /dev/fd/3
[03:15] <Keybuk> 20094 ?        R      0:00  |           \_ ps fax
[03:16] <Keybuk> ... still can't decide whether that's "sick" or not ... ;)
[03:17] <bddebian> Yes :-)
[03:17] <Keybuk> the alternatives are
[03:17] <Keybuk> a) passing it all on stdin (could break things)
[03:17] <Keybuk> b) passing it all using -c
[03:18] <bddebian> Ah
[03:26] <Keybuk> right, bed
[04:38] <lasindi> Hi all, this might not be the best channel to ask this, but are there any plans to develop a technology in Ubuntu (or any other Linux distros) equivalent to Time Machine feature that Apple will be including in the next version of OS X?
[04:38] <Burgundavia> lasindi: there is backup technology being worked on
[04:40] <lasindi> Burgundavia: do you know what it is called?
[04:40] <Amaranth> dirvish?
[04:40] <Amaranth> it's older than time machine
[04:41] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: true, but I was thinking of sivang's thingy
[04:41] <Amaranth> sivang: link?
[04:42] <Amaranth> err
[04:42] <Amaranth> that was supposed to be a ? :P
[04:42] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: sivang's work isn't equivalent, afaik
[04:43] <lasindi> Amaranth: I don't know much about Dirvish, but from their webpage, it looks like they make complete disk image backups. Time Machine looks a bit more like Subversion for your entire filesystem. Is there a project like that?
[04:44] <Amaranth> hmm
[04:44] <Amaranth> all i can say for sure is that it's not possible right now
[04:44] <Amaranth> inotify has a watch limit
[04:45] <lasindi> What is a watch limit?
[04:45] <Amaranth> this really isn't the right channel for this
[04:46] <Amaranth> limit to the number of things that can be watched for changes
[04:47] <lasindi> Which channel would be better?
[04:47] <Amaranth> i don't think one exists
[04:47] <lasindi> #inotify doesn't look very popular :-)
[04:47] <Amaranth> although dirvish could probably be tweaked to do the job, it just needs a GUI
[04:50] <lasindi> Sorry to ask again about inotify, but why would the watch limit be a problem? Couldn't it just "commit" a change in a folder when it happens, just like Beagle can reindex changes as soon as they happen?
[04:50] <TheMuso> c
[04:50] <TheMuso> crap kvm
[04:50] <Amaranth> lasindi: beagle is the problem
[04:51] <Amaranth> lasindi: beagle steals all the inotify watches
[04:52] <lasindi> Ah
[04:52] <lasindi> Amaranth: is there a reason why splitting the watches between Beagle and the backup system would be a problem?
[04:53] <Amaranth> there aren't enough of them
[04:54] <lasindi> So, presuming that Apple faces the same problem, is it not possible to just increase the number of watches?
[04:55] <Amaranth> lasindi: linus won't do it so a tool depending on that couldn't happen
[04:55] <Amaranth> lasindi: you'd have to turn beagle into an indexer/backup system
[04:56] <lasindi> Why is Linus against it?
[04:57] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[04:57] <Amaranth> you're looking at this the wrong way though
[04:57] <Amaranth> the technical part of making the backups isn't really hard
[05:00] <lasindi> So, you're saying the GUI front-end would be the bigger challenge?
[05:00] <Amaranth> well, probably not
[05:01] <Amaranth> you need a disk efficient RCS, a program that watches for changes and commits them to said RCS, a GUI on top of all that, and an API for other applications to use to store random objects
[05:01] <Amaranth> the first and last parts would probably take the most work
[05:01] <Amaranth> but it's not a "hard" problem as in difficulty, just time
[05:02] <Amaranth> oh, and an easy way to move the backups to other disks or over the internet
[05:04] <lasindi> Do you think something like plain Subversion would be up to the task for the RCS?
[05:04] <Amaranth> i actually think modifying rsync to store the differences on sync instead of writing out the original file would work
[05:07] <lasindi> Amaranth: is there an advantage of using that over something like CVS or SVN?
[05:08] <infinity> CVS is bloated on-disk, and SVN won't let you get directly at your files without checking them out.  You'd be heavily modifying either to do what you want.
[05:09] <HrdwrBoB> Amaranth: I just use rsync with hardlinks
[05:09] <HrdwrBoB> of course, it's not useful for large files with small changes
[05:10] <lasindi> infinity: well, if you, say, create a directory, couldn't you just commit after you add it, and then "svn up -r <previous revision>" to go back to before you created it?
[05:10] <Amaranth> the storage method is the only "hard" problem :)
[05:11] <HrdwrBoB> what about LVM snapshots
[05:11] <wasabi> LVM snapshots would accomplish the task.
[05:11] <Amaranth> doesn't zfs do this?
[05:11] <wasabi> Also, a transactional FS.
[05:11] <wasabi> Such as ZFS.
[05:11] <Amaranth> that's probably how apple does it
[05:12] <wasabi> Yeah. NTFS in Vista is going to have transactions too.
[05:12] <Amaranth> apparently leopard has a lot of opensolaris code
[05:12] <infinity> lasindi: Sure, but then you're stuck with a repository AND a filesystem which anyone can do, but it's effort and bloat.
[05:12] <HrdwrBoB> LVM snapshots aren't good to use unless the whole 'running out of space on a snapshot' thing
[05:12] <HrdwrBoB> cna be solved in an elegant way
[05:13] <lasindi> The reason I'm wondering about Subversion is because Time Machine will likely lack features like being able to easily generate diffs of files and look at a log, while SVN could provide that.
[05:13] <wasabi> subversion is slow, and can't lock the FS in a consistant state.
[05:13] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[05:13] <HrdwrBoB> SVN is a bad idea on many levels
[05:13] <lasindi> Mostly because it's slow?
[05:13] <Amaranth> SVN is probably the worst possible choice :P
[05:13] <lasindi> Heh, ok
[05:14] <wasabi> I'd start by implementing or finding a transactional FS. :)
[05:14] <Amaranth> indeed
[05:14] <wasabi> Where changes to the FS nodes/structures are stored on the FS, in an atomic fashion.
[05:14] <wasabi> And branchable
[05:14] <bluefoxicy> this is really asinine but
[05:14] <bluefoxicy> are there any server tools that mimic the feel of Windows 2003 server or the Fedora Management Console
[05:15] <wasabi> Web based or MMC?
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> insomuch that you have a console that lets you configure Web, e-mail, DNS, and directory server (yay LDAP) settings
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> with point and click access
[05:15] <wasabi> No. No such thing.
[05:15] <wasabi> At least not that works properly.
[05:15] <Amaranth> isn't reiser4 a good candidate then?
[05:15] <wasabi> wiki.ubuntu.com/DomainAuthenticationUtility
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> wasabi:  I was thinking a GUI application, but Web based seems fine.
[05:15] <wasabi> Amaranth: No clue. Never investigated it.
[05:15] <infinity> Reiser's track record doesn't make me comfortable designing solutions around it.
[05:16] <lasindi> Amaranth: reiser4 probably won't be out for several years though, right?
[05:16] <Burgundavia> wasabi: isn't that was ajmitch is doing?
[05:16] <lasindi> *by out I mean merged into the kernel
[05:16] <bluefoxicy> wasabi:  I just noticed someone complaining that "ubuntu server edition is supposed to come with everything I need for a server"
[05:16] <Amaranth> well, yeah...
[05:16] <wasabi> Burgundavia: No idea. Haven't talked to anybody. I made that wiki page like 2 years ago or something.
[05:16] <wasabi> Burgundavia: brain dump
[05:16] <infinity> bluefoxicy: It does come with everything you need for a server. :P
[05:16] <infinity> bluefoxicy: And everything you need to manage one, too.  openssh and about four thousand text editors.
[05:16] <bluefoxicy> wasabi: I am thinking the UNFORTUNATE situation is that people feel that they "need" a GUI that lets them configure a server WITHOUT understanding the software they're setting up
[05:16] <bluefoxicy> i.e. what windows does
[05:17] <wasabi> bluefoxicy: We know, we need that area covered, but we don't have it.
[05:17] <wasabi> Help. :)
[05:17] <wasabi> There is no unifying auth system yet.
[05:17] <infinity> bluefoxicy: I'd like to see a "small Business Server" sometime that demystifies some of this and gives people good GUI tools, but the good GUI tools just ain't there.
[05:17] <bluefoxicy> "I have no training but I got an IIS site up *hacked* OSHIT!"
[05:17] <wasabi> There are just pieces which suck to configure.
[05:18] <HrdwrBoB> bluefoxicy: that's a failure of people to undestand what they are downloading
[05:18] <HrdwrBoB> you are right and those tools are needed
[05:18] <HrdwrBoB> but the reality is setup anything nontrivial you need decent knowledge
[05:18] <bluefoxicy> infinity:  yeah.  I'm on the fence with the GUI thing.  On one hand, point and click is faster even for experienced, well-trained administrators; on the other, an idiot can get things "working," and that's not necessarily good (I KNOW what I'm talking about, 100% of the ownage at the CCDC was misconfiguration and the pen testers said 95% of what they see is same)
[05:18] <HrdwrBoB> and the gui things provided in my experience just screw up your config more than it was
[05:19] <wasabi> bluefoxicy: In regards to the AD thing, we need a unified definition of what our solution is. Integration with other solutions. Obviously it's an LDAP+Krb5 system like everybody else.
[05:19] <wasabi> bluefoxicy: But what pieces, whoses Krb5, what are the standard LDAP templates?
[05:19] <bluefoxicy> HrdwrBoB:  I've seen some "clean" GUI tools that make only the modifications they say they do, without making frivolous excess.
[05:19] <infinity> bluefoxicy: I disagree about the being faster bit.  For small sites, this seems to be true, but as sites grow, CLI and scripting rule the roost.
[05:19] <Burgundavia> wasabi: you need to talk to ajmitch
[05:19] <HrdwrBoB> bluefoxicy: though they are the minority unforunately
[05:19] <bluefoxicy> wasabi:  LDAP has no standard scheme as I understand; activedirectory supplies a standard scheme, if it would not be a copyvio perhaps it could be... appropriated...
[05:19] <infinity> bluefoxicy: I'm constantly frustrated with NT Server machines because I can't just sed a bunch of files, or other such tricks.
[05:20] <HrdwrBoB> infinity: you can script IIS, I've been involved with it, however it's an order of magnitude more difficult
[05:20] <infinity> (And being able to dump, sed, reload and LDAP DB is hella-fun -- don't try this at home unless you understand the schema you're mangling, mind you)
[05:20] <infinity> s/and LDAP/an LDAP/
[05:20] <bluefoxicy> infinity:  set up an ldap auth client, you need to edit 4 files relevant to PAM.  RedHat lets you do it by a click and 2 fields.  there are specific cases.
[05:20] <Hobbsee> morning infinity 
[05:21] <wasabi> bluefoxicy: that's the problem.
[05:21] <wasabi> bluefoxicy: we NEED a standard default schema.
[05:21] <infinity> bluefoxicy: Yeah, we have some spec or other about simplifying client auth for LDAP and Samba.
[05:21] <infinity> bluefoxicy: I vaguely recall ajmitch having something to do with it.
[05:21] <wasabi> bluefoxicy: You can't have a GUI tool which requires people to specify LDAP search filters and objcet classes.
[05:21] <wasabi> That stuff's so technical you mine as well use a console.
[05:21] <infinity> Hobbsee: Afternoon.
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> wasabi:  is it a copyvio problem to lift the schema from ActiveDirectory?
[05:22] <wasabi> We need a wizard called "create domain", which takes a dns domain name, probes it, discovers whether it exists already or not, and in 4 questions, finishes.
[05:23] <wasabi> Basically the question comes down to   "does it already exists->setup local system to auth to else->create, configure, and setup krb5 + Ldap
[05:25] <bluefoxicy> anyway I was just curious about where that was going
[05:25] <wasabi> Unless somebody else is working on it, nowhere that I know of. ;)
[05:25] <nixternal> sorry for the floods earlier, as it seems my router was nailed...
[05:25] <wasabi> The tech is coming into place, slowely. The samba4 guys are doing most of it.
[05:25] <wasabi> krb5 integration in DNS, etc.
[06:48] <cafuego> Does anyone have a moment to help me sort out a debconf problem I can't seem to get my head around?
[06:50] <cafuego> I am calling db_get in a preinst script to check if the installing user has accepted a license. On the first go, the key i'm looking for obviously doesn't exist. As far as I'm aware, my preinst checks for this, then creates it if needed. However, it just exist ungracefully when debconf returns 10 "doesn't exist"
[06:57] <crimsun> it seems better to have the key in the template and Default it to false
[06:58] <infinity> Of course, there's nothing that can't be solved with a judicious sprinkling of || true all over the place.
[06:58] <infinity> (Or wrapping your db_get in an if block)
[06:58] <infinity> But the template suggestion is more correct.
[06:58] <infinity> You also realise that to use debconf in a preinst, you need to Pre-Depend on it (ick), right?
[07:02] <cafuego> Ok, so I just add a value in the template.. easy.
[07:03] <cafuego> infinity: Not worried about that.
[07:07] <cafuego> Hmm, well, as fara s I can tell it's already in the template
[07:09] <cafuego> Aha. 
[07:09] <cafuego> I can just call the template file "templates" right?
[07:10] <cafuego> it's as if it's not included in the package; debconf reckons it can't find its contents.
[07:12] <cafuego> Yeh, if I use 'dpkg -e'
[07:13] <cafuego>  to extract the generated package, the templates file is missing. Am I missing a call in to db_ somethingorother in rules?
[07:13] <crimsun> dh_installdebconf
[07:15] <cafuego> just foud it, thanks :-)
[07:15] <crimsun> np
[07:19] <cafuego> ugh, this debugging would be a tad easier if the package wasn't 46Mb
[07:23] <cafuego> crimsun: I got it working, cheers!
[07:24] <crimsun> excellent
[07:26] <infinity> Amaranth: Should "metacity --replace" be enough to test the reversion of that patch, once installed?  If so, that didn't fix the problem I was having last night.
[07:26] <cafuego> googleearth, here we come ;-)
[07:29] <ajmitch> cafuego: interesting, do you have some arrangement to distribute that?
[07:30] <cafuego> ajmitch: No, and the changelog does note the that package 1) violates the included license and 2) is for my own use.
[07:30] <ajmitch> aha
[07:31] <cafuego> without needing non-deb mess
[07:31] <infinity> So, you made a package with a clickwrap license.. For yourself? :)
[07:31] <cafuego> and easy upgradeability
[07:31] <infinity> That seems a bit masochistic.
[07:31] <cafuego> infinity: Yes.
[07:31] <infinity> Unless you're hoping to get Google to distribute it (or allow distribution) now that you've done the work. :)
[07:31] <cafuego> infinity: And so that I cna access it easily, I pushed it to my online repo.. :o)
[07:33] <infinity> I don't think that actually holds up in a court. :)
[07:33] <infinity> But I doubt Google will be suing, either.
[07:33] <cafuego> Before any court there will probably be a cease&desist letter
[07:33] <cafuego> Which I'll happily obey
[07:33] <infinity> Yeah, I've had a few C&Ds in my day, too.
[07:33] <infinity> Always fun.
[07:33] <cafuego> If not, I'll be happy to do jail time for the cause!
[07:34] <infinity> Which, when I was younger and more "screw the man"-ish, just lead to me moving things to a different directory on the same public webserver.
[07:34] <infinity> I've sine reformed.
[07:34] <infinity> s/sine/since/
[07:34] <cafuego> Not, mind you, that violating a license is actually a criiminal act in australia.
[07:34] <ajmitch> cafuego: you want to enjoy the hospitality of the australian government?
[07:35] <infinity> Australian prisons look comfy anyway.
[07:35] <cafuego> ajmitch: I already am
[07:35] <cafuego> They're letting me stay!
[07:35] <infinity> I've been looking forward to getting arrested ever since I moved here.
[07:35] <ajmitch> such a shame that I'd have to wait 2-3 years for the unemployment benefit there
[07:35] <cafuego> infinity: You gotta do your best for that
[07:36] <cafuego> ajmitch: Don't kiwis just automatically get that the moment they step off the plane here? ;-)
[07:36] <ajmitch> cafuego: nah, they changed it for some strange reason :)

[07:36] <infinity> Oh, they don't hand you permanent residence when you cross the border anymore?
[07:36] <infinity> I thought that was still in effect.
[07:36] <ajmitch> they do, but not the dole
[07:37] <cafuego> infinity: They might, but permanent residence != benefits
[07:37] <infinity> Oh, right, they stole a bunch of benefits from residents recently.  Forgot about that.
[07:37] <infinity> Like, no more HECS for non-citizens.
[07:37] <infinity> Bah.
[07:37] <cafuego> (or much in the way of other rights, except the right to pay taxes)
[07:38] <infinity> Oh well.  I guess I could apply for an .au passport in 3 years, if I really cared, but I doubt I care that deeply.
[07:38] <infinity> Voting in elections where I don't agree with any of the major parties doesn't sound all that exciting.
[07:39] <cafuego> infinity: Informal Voting for Gain and Profit
[07:40] <cafuego> ajmitch: Yes, probably safer what with .au being the .us these days.
[07:40] <infinity> ajmitch: Well, yes, I'd not renounce my Canadian citizenship, I just have an ongoing internal dialogue about the pros and cons of ALSO being an Australian citizen.
[07:40] <infinity> So far, the pros are lacking.
[07:41] <cafuego> infinity: 99% chance of jury duty for new citizens due to the "randomised" selection process.
[07:41] <infinity> Jury duty doesn't bug me.
[07:41] <ajmitch> hah, I just had that this week
[07:41] <cafuego> does for me, I think it's a bad system.
[07:41] <ajmitch> got called up for a trial, but the plea was changed to guilty & we could all go home
[07:41] <infinity> cafuego: And it's improved by you not participating in it? :)
[07:42] <cafuego> infinity: It's improved by getting rid of it.
[07:43] <infinity> ajmitch: You may have missed out on some fun.  My brother-in-law was called up about a year ago, did two cases in a row, and had insane stories to tell for weeks.
[07:43] <ajmitch> infinity: I didn't really feel like hearing a case of indecent assault on a child
[07:43] <infinity> ajmitch: His cases were bizarre, and the trash involved in them (and the quotes) were even more bizarre. :)
[07:44] <infinity> ajmitch: Ahh, yeah, that could be a drag.
[08:04] <Amaranth> infinity: it should have been, yes
[08:05] <Amaranth> infinity: i'm out of ideas, that was just something i saw happening
[08:30] <Nafallo> iwj: I think you broke evolution with your new firefox.
[08:31] <Nafallo> nafallo@silverfairy:~ $ evolution
[08:31] <Nafallo> CalDAV Eplugin starting up ...
[08:31] <Nafallo> (evolution-2.8:5884): camel-WARNING **: Failed to initialize NSS
[08:31] <jdub> ha ha silverfairy
[08:31] <Nafallo> jdub: http://www.magicalforest.se/silverfairy/ :-)
[08:33] <Nafallo> anyway, shower. bbl.
[02:12] <mhb> hello everyone
[02:13] <Hobbsee> hi mhb 
[02:16] <mhb> Hobbsee: I don't like weekends ... the people that I need to talk to are always not here during the weekends :o)
[02:16] <Hobbsee> mhb: heh.  dont take weekends?
[02:17] <mhb> only about 1/4 of them :o)
[02:21] <mhb> Hobbsee: and what about you?
[02:22] <Hobbsee> mhb: weekends?  well, i didtn go to work today, if that counts.
[02:22] <Hobbsee> didnt go to uni either
[02:23] <tseng> Hobbsee: just be home by 11
[02:23] <Hobbsee> tseng: hah.  12.
[02:24] <tseng> only to get on irc
[03:14] <bluefoxicy> o.o
[03:15] <bluefoxicy> crash reports (are supposed to) go in /var/crash
[03:15] <zul_> hey
[03:15] <bluefoxicy> I believe the FHS would make /var/lib/crash the more correct path.
[03:15] <bluefoxicy> but I'm not entirely familiar with it.
[03:15] <bluefoxicy> hi zul
[03:18] <bddebian> Howdy
[04:16] <bSON> hi
[04:17] <bSON> is there some chance that metacity will be shipped with compositor enabled in edgy? (it shouldn't hurt the ones who don't use it)
[04:22] <Keybuk> anyone else's Firefox unable to initialise its security component?
[04:23] <tseng> Keybuk: security as in ssl? crimsun mentioned something about it, works for me
[04:24] <Keybuk> tseng: yeah
[04:24] <Keybuk> I tried wiping the profile, that didn't help either
[04:28] <sladen> Keybuk: are you trying to access a site that is only using 40-bit SSL?
[04:28] <sladen> Keybuk: eg. a Lights out card or something similar
[04:28] <Keybuk> sladen: no, I'm just starting it
[04:29] <Keybuk> "Could not initialize the browser's security component.  blah blah"
[06:23] <pitti> BenC: just installed and tested new kernel; apport now has full gdb love, great!
[06:23] <BenC> pitti: sweet
[06:27] <pitti> d'oh, CD burning is broken for me suddenly - opening /dev/cdrw O_EXCL doesn't work. WTH??
[06:28] <gnomefreak> permissions?
[06:28] <pitti> no, certainly not
[06:29] <pitti> Error trying to open /dev/cdrw exclusively (Device or resource busy)... retrying in 1 second.
[06:29] <pitti> it's not mounted, lsof and fuser return nothing
[06:29] <gnomefreak> ah
[06:29] <pitti> and it doesn't work with sudo eiter
[06:29] <pitti> either
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  ping
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> should the crash reporter stick things in /var/crash or /var/lib/crash per FHS?
[06:53] <pitti> bluefoxicy: /var/crash
[06:53] <desrt> stuff in /var/lib/dpkg changes at exactly the same time as stuff in /usr
[06:53] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  nods, what reasoning?
[06:55] <pitti> bluefoxicy: well, FHS suggests /var/crash for that and I just followed it
[06:55] <pitti> bluefoxicy: do you think that's inappropriate?
[06:56] <bluefoxicy> ah ok
[06:56] <bluefoxicy> pitti:  no, I was just curious.
[06:56] <bluefoxicy> As I said I am not very familiar with FHS
[07:14] <freeflying> how can I  only mirror the dapper and edgy's archive? 
[07:23] <Keybuk> hmm, I can't move windows with the Windows key either :-/
[07:24] <pitti> Keybuk: now I can't burn CDs, nor use evolution; judge yourself what's worse :)
[07:25] <pitti> Keybuk: however, alt+mouse dragging still works
[07:25] <pitti> anyway, pub time
[07:25] <pitti> cu at Monday!
[07:33] <Keybuk> I can't use Launchpad to file bugs, because it doesn't work without SSL :)
[07:36] <gnomefreak> links2 can be compiled for ssl :)
[07:38] <gnomefreak> *wishlist* can we build links2 with ssl support for ubuntu? so users dont have to compile it for ssl?
[07:41] <geser> doesn't links2 depend already on libssl?
[07:43] <tseng>  apt-cache show links2 | grep --color ssl
[07:43] <tseng> if you dont believe us
[07:47] <gnomefreak> geser: nope doesnt depend on it since its not build with it
[07:49] <geser> the version in edgy links against libssl but not the one in dapper
[07:50] <gnomefreak> it does? apt-cache show links2 still doesnt show libssl as a depend
[07:50] <gnomefreak> nvm i see it
[07:50] <gnomefreak> hm
[07:54] <gnomefreak> it is added ;)
[08:05] <Keybuk> hmm, this crash report program is annoying me
[08:06] <Keybuk> it keeps running every time my own code core dumps
[08:11] <bddebian> So write better code.. ;-P
[08:11] <astronut> your livecd refers to a rescue mode but won' tboot it
[08:11] <astronut> it's in the help, but no kernel image found
[08:13] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk:  I have apport and I don't seem to get the crash reporter, just gnome's bug tool.
[08:13] <bddebian> astronut: Go back to your Debian corner.. ;-)
[08:14] <bluefoxicy> ubuntu > debian
[08:14] <bluefoxicy> debian == people asking me why they have to /etc/init.d/kdm start on boot
[08:14] <astronut> ubuntu = broken releases
[08:15] <bluefoxicy> and me having no answer since their inittab starts runlevel 2 and /etc/rc2.d/S*kdm exists
[08:15] <astronut> lets see, refering to non existant kernels
[08:15] <astronut> the spacial browsing a few releases ago
[08:15] <astronut> etc
[08:15] <bluefoxicy> 6.06.1 is broken now?
[08:15] <astronut> i think it's 4
[08:15] <astronut> 6.0.4
[08:16] <astronut> the rescue mode doesn't work
[08:16] <bluefoxicy> we don't have a 6.04
[08:16] <bluefoxicy> Did anyone release a 6.04?
[08:16] <Seveas> no
[08:16] <tseng> 6.04 was meant to be dapper
[08:17] <tseng> it was pushed back 2 months
[08:17] <bddebian> astronut: This is a Dapper live-cd?
[08:18] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  did you see the LWN article criticizing kernel ABI changes?
[08:18] <tseng> no.
[08:18] <tseng> I don't subscribe
[08:18] <bluefoxicy> Apparently 2.6.19 has a new sysfs structure that breaks udev
[08:19] <bluefoxicy> it points out that Ubuntu Dapper 6.06 LTS AND upcoming slackware 11 will break from this
[08:19] <bluefoxicy> as part of the argument why changing APIs is bad
[08:20] <Seveas> bluefoxicy, nonsense
[08:20] <Seveas> dapper will neither have 2.6.19 nor new udev
[08:20] <bluefoxicy> Seveas:  ah you saw that too ;)
[08:20] <Seveas> so that argument is a load of dingos kidneys
[08:20] <bluefoxicy> Seveas:  and Slackware 11 is "upcoming" so ....
[08:21] <Seveas> There have been sysfs/udev changes before -- it's painful but doable
[08:25] <tseng> every tag invented to this date, in fact
[08:30] <HiddenWolf> tseng: tags are pretty much half-implemented at the moment
[08:38] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: I'm not convinced it'll break udev
[08:39] <Keybuk> 2.6.17 had one that allegedly broke the dapper udev, but it hasn't
[08:39] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk:  I'm not convinced it matters to distros that aren't going to be upgraded to that kernel
[08:41] <bluefoxicy> bah my weekend is already unbearably boring.  The only excitement I had was the 10 minutes I thought I was gonna get to go hang out with this boy while his parents are out of town
[08:42] <Keybuk> indeed
[08:42] <Keybuk> the kernel maintainer's point of view appears to always be that everyone runs their own kernel, etc.
[08:43] <Keybuk> which just isn't true anymore
[08:43] <bluefoxicy> my POV is if you roll your own, then roll it
[08:43] <bluefoxicy> you have to roll a new modutils/module-init-tools to 2.4 -> 2.6
[08:43] <bluefoxicy> you have to roll a new udev too.
[08:43] <Keybuk> yup
[08:43] <bluefoxicy> If you can't do that then you obviously don't understand what you're doing and you shouldn't be doing it.
[08:44] <Keybuk> and new klibc, etc.
[08:45] <HiddenWolf> bluefoxicy: lucky you, my morning started by figuring out why my computer was giving no keyboard errors
[08:46] <bluefoxicy> HiddenWolf:  "almost lucky" you mean.
[08:46] <HiddenWolf> bluefoxicy: heh, comparatively speaking, of course.
[08:47] <HiddenWolf> but indeed, almost lucky. :)
[08:48] <bluefoxicy> My day started with "wwwwwwwwwwwwtf it's time to get up and I still haven't fallen asleep"
[10:03] <siretart> Richte python2.3 ein (2.3.5-14) ...
[10:03] <siretart> pycentral: pycentral rtinstall: installed runtime python2.3 not found
[10:03] <siretart> ideas where to look for this issue?
[10:05] <crimsun> siretart: we need to sync -15 from Sid
[10:05] <crimsun> (it's fixed there)
[10:05] <crimsun> http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/python2.3/news/20060730T161727Z.html