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| Hobbsee | morning all | 01:35 |
|---|---|---|
| toma | morning | 01:36 |
| nixternal | hey everyone, we are getting ready to start editing this weeks UWN, for Kubuntu stuff you would like added, let me know please! | 01:37 |
| nixternal | thanks everyone! | 01:37 |
| nixternal | i am going to do some screenies of some new stuff as well to show off for us | 01:38 |
| Hobbsee | nixternal: the start of the g-p-m stuff (kde-guidance) | 01:40 |
| nixternal | Hobbsee: link me to further info if possible...that would be awesome | 01:40 |
| Hobbsee | nixternal: er, that might be the spec? also, Riddell made a blog post about it | 01:41 |
| Hobbsee | it's on plant | 01:41 |
| Hobbsee | *planet | 01:41 |
| nixternal | good deal | 01:41 |
| nixternal | just keep plopping ideas, i will transfer em up ;) | 01:41 |
| Hobbsee | it's a bit early to announce amarok stuff | 01:42 |
| Hobbsee | seeing as it hasnt been released yet | 01:42 |
| nixternal | true | 01:43 |
| nixternal | Hobbsee: stuff from last saturday until today would be best | 01:43 |
| Hobbsee | nixternal: we had a meeting, and discussed the alioth stuff. | 01:44 |
| nixternal | we can leave teasers to make them read the next UWN though with pre-release tricks | 01:44 |
| Hobbsee | true | 01:46 |
| toma | nixternal: maybe as a tip of the week a listing of the best lines for sources.list | 01:51 |
| toma | to get all the up-to-date goodies for dapper | 01:51 |
| nixternal | no problem | 01:51 |
| nixternal | main, universe, multiverse, security..and what not | 01:51 |
| nixternal | good idea tomoa | 01:51 |
| nixternal | arg | 01:51 |
| nixternal | toma too ;) | 01:51 |
| toma | ;-) | 01:52 |
| Hobbsee | nixternal: were you doing the meeting minutes? | 01:52 |
| toma | ow yes, i wanted to ask that too | 01:52 |
| nixternal | if i was, i wasn't asked...but, i have been super busy as well...i can probably get to them in the next couple of days if that is ok | 01:53 |
| nixternal | anyhow..food time..bbiaf ;) | 01:53 |
| Hobbsee | right | 01:53 |
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| toma | nixternal: i regulary reed them back, so i appreciate your work | 01:53 |
| nixternal | thanks toma, glad i can help! plus it saves me from pointy stick attacks | 01:54 |
| Hobbsee | haha | 01:54 |
| toma | nixternal: yes, you have to be carefull with The Manager around | 01:55 |
| Hobbsee | me too. particularly for last meeting | 01:55 |
| Hobbsee | haha | 01:55 |
| === Hobbsee suspects that one of the first thing's she'll start changing is to organise the meetings a bit better, so they dont take so long. | ||
| toma | haha | 01:55 |
| toma | i have a vague idea your points take the longest ;-) | 01:56 |
| toma | curious how you are going to organize them | 01:56 |
| Hobbsee | toma: hehe, true. actually, i've been cutting them off a bit so that once iv'e got the answer, it goes ot the next point | 01:56 |
| Hobbsee | toma: yeah, me too, really :P | 01:57 |
| toma | yeah, last meeting was an exception | 01:57 |
| Hobbsee | toma: certainly sending out notification emails a bit quicker, getting the stuff on the wiki to quote the particular bits of the articles, etc, so people have had the time to have a look and a think about things | 01:57 |
| toma | although i've a new point for the agenda already | 01:57 |
| Hobbsee | i frequently find i'm reading whatever they're talking about during the meeting already, cos i havent seen it | 01:57 |
| Hobbsee | toma: add it :) | 01:57 |
| === Hobbsee may take over the chairing, i'm not sure. | ||
| Hobbsee | it's easier to poke people into moving on if i'm chairing | 01:58 |
| Hobbsee | i just find that i zone out during longer points, thta seem to just go around in circles. | 01:58 |
| toma | yeah, the wiki page should have thje 'intro', so we can skip straight to the thing | 01:58 |
| Hobbsee | toma: exactly. we wouldnt run it like the distro meetings, but something close to that might work | 01:59 |
| Hobbsee | i havent spoken to Riddell over all of this though, which i'd need to do at some point | 01:59 |
| toma | riddell usally does a good job in keeping it short, comparing to what i see in live companies | 01:59 |
| Hobbsee | oh definetly | 01:59 |
| Hobbsee | Riddell: does a *great* job. i just want to make it better again :) | 02:00 |
| toma | the point i want to discuss is likeback http://basket.kde.org/likeback.php | 02:00 |
| === Hobbsee is better at organising stuff rather than coding stuff. although i like both. | ||
| toma | Hobbsee: you are pretty confident of yourself, non? | 02:01 |
| Hobbsee | toma: um, is that a problem? | 02:01 |
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| toma | likeback or your confidence? | 02:01 |
| Hobbsee | my confidence | 02:01 |
| toma | no it is not. | 02:02 |
| Hobbsee | toma: right. i've done similar stuff before, but not exactly this. not worked in such a big team before, for one thing. | 02:03 |
| Hobbsee | toma: so when i'm in a mood where i'm coping at all, i can take over the world and be confident, no problem :P | 02:03 |
| toma | good ;-) confident and a planning, awesome | 02:03 |
| Hobbsee | at other times...well...i'm not going into them :P | 02:03 |
| toma | ah, pleasssseee... | 02:04 |
| Hobbsee | hmm? | 02:04 |
| Hobbsee | toma: read partway thru that likeback stuff - that looks really cool! | 02:04 |
| toma | yes, maybe we should add it to a knot thingie to get some feedback | 02:05 |
| toma | if we need any, i dont know | 02:05 |
| toma | Hobbsee: ow, and i talked to the amarok people | 02:06 |
| Hobbsee | does it apply just to basket, or to all of them? | 02:06 |
| Hobbsee | ah yeah. they didnt like me :( | 02:07 |
| Hobbsee | what'd they say? | 02:07 |
| toma | the release could be delayed a bit due to some bugs | 02:07 |
| toma | he did not know for sure | 02:07 |
| Hobbsee | yeah, i was there to hear that | 02:07 |
| toma | and he told me that for major release they do give time to packagers | 02:07 |
| toma | but not for point releases | 02:07 |
| toma | i asked them to consider that | 02:08 |
| Hobbsee | oh yeah, that's right, i was going to subscribe to that mailing list | 02:08 |
| Hobbsee | yeah, okay | 02:08 |
| toma | and they received similar request from gentoo | 02:08 |
| toma | there is a packagers mailinglist for amarok | 02:08 |
| toma | there you can receive the tarball in advance | 02:08 |
| Hobbsee | havent seen where it is yet | 02:08 |
| toma | let me check my irc logs, one sec | 02:09 |
| Hobbsee | Amarok Amarok Mailing List | 02:09 |
| Hobbsee | Amarok-bugs-dist [no description available] | 02:09 |
| Hobbsee | Amarok-promo [no description available] | 02:09 |
| Hobbsee | could be any of them | 02:09 |
| === Hobbsee goes afk | ||
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| Burgundavia | any interesting news this week that UWN should report? | 02:09 |
| imbrandon_ | not that i'm aware of, you would be good to poke Riddell when he is srround tomarrow and check the meeting minutes | 02:10 |
| imbrandon_ | s/tomarrow/monday | 02:10 |
| Burgundavia | right, it is going out tonight, in less than 4 hours | 02:10 |
| imbrandon_ | guess not then ;) | 02:11 |
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| === imbrandon_ pokes nixternal | ||
| Hobbsee | Riddell: can we kill off kwifimanager once and for all, now that we have knm/wlassistant? | 02:32 |
| Hobbsee | and when do we install and run knm by default? | 02:32 |
| Burgundavia | Hobbsee: knm is knetwork-manager? | 02:32 |
| Hobbsee | Burgundavia: yep :) | 02:32 |
| imbrandon_ | yea | 02:32 |
| Hobbsee | Burgundavia: it's just far too long to type. like l-k-h, etc | 02:33 |
| Burgundavia | the problem is that nm/knm conflicts with ifupdown | 02:33 |
| imbrandon_ | k-d-s and tons of others ;P | 02:33 |
| Hobbsee | that too | 02:33 |
| Hobbsee | Burgundavia: true, you have to do it one way or the other. hopefully you get to avoid ifupdown though | 02:34 |
| Hobbsee | although it's bad if you've got a console only login though. | 02:34 |
| imbrandon_ | Hobbsee: yea but what about server ;) | 02:34 |
| imbrandon_ | heh | 02:34 |
| Burgundavia | yep | 02:34 |
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: then you dotn have it installed anyway, so you just use dhclient and all that by default | 02:34 |
| Burgundavia | plus knm does not deal with static addreesses very well | 02:34 |
| imbrandon_ | s/very well/at all | 02:35 |
| Burgundavia | in fact, you have to remove nm just to get a static address to take | 02:35 |
| Hobbsee | true that. i think that's a networkmanager problem? | 02:35 |
| Burgundavia | absolutely | 02:35 |
| imbrandon_ | but its great for lappys , one more reason for k-{desktop,laptop} hehehe | 02:35 |
| === Hobbsee thought she saw that they were fixing such things. | ||
| Hobbsee | Burgundavia: question was more "is it nm's problem, as opposed to knm's?" | 02:36 |
| Burgundavia | afaik, there are no plans for supporting static ips | 02:36 |
| Burgundavia | they both use the same backend | 02:36 |
| Hobbsee | ah ok | 02:36 |
| Hobbsee | nm=network manager != network-manager-gnome | 02:36 |
| Hobbsee | oops, missed an = in there. | 02:36 |
| imbrandon_ | lol | 02:36 |
| === Hobbsee should really go and do her comp assignment. | ||
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| imbrandon_ | wb rob | 02:44 |
| nixternal | Burgundavia: what are you doing in my playground? | 02:44 |
| nixternal | ;) | 02:44 |
| Burgundavia | nixternal: dappling in the dark side | 02:45 |
| Burgundavia | Hobbsee: fyi: http://en.opensuse.org/Projects/KNetworkManager | 02:46 |
| Hobbsee | Burgundavia: ooh, yay. another kubuntu developer then | 02:46 |
| nixternal | that is #ubuntu-devel, you are in geek heaver, #kubuntu-devel ;) | 02:46 |
| Burgundavia | Hobbsee: I didn't say I had ever installed kubuntu | 02:46 |
| nixternal | my lord | 02:46 |
| nixternal | heaver? | 02:46 |
| nixternal | heaven | 02:46 |
| Hobbsee | Burgundavia: oh dear... | 02:46 |
| imbrandon_ | Burgundavia: dont make me or Hobbsee /op ;) | 02:47 |
| imbrandon_ | hehe | 02:47 |
| nixternal | hehe | 02:47 |
| Burgundavia | I pull rank | 02:47 |
| nixternal | oooh | 02:47 |
| Hobbsee | Burgundavia: what about it in particular? | 02:47 |
| Burgundavia | I have been around Ubuntu for longer than either of you | 02:47 |
| Burgundavia | Hobbsee: that is your information on what knm is | 02:47 |
| imbrandon_ | hehe and ? | 02:47 |
| imbrandon_ | lol | 02:47 |
| Hobbsee | Burgundavia: true. i knew that :P | 02:47 |
| === Hobbsee uses knm all the time | ||
| === imbrandon_ was just teasin anyhow , i'll get you to the k* side one day | ||
| Burgundavia | Hobbsee: right | 02:48 |
| nixternal | imbrandon: i have been working on it, he does some jedi mind trick stuff and gets you to install ubuntu | 02:48 |
| nixternal | don't mess with him | 02:48 |
| Burgundavia | since you seemed confused about the relationshipo between nm and knm | 02:48 |
| imbrandon_ | although i do enjoy ubuntu on my lappy ( just get rid of the damn orange ) | 02:48 |
| nixternal | luckily he wasn't online today, so i got ubuntu uninstalled and kubuntu edgy back on ;) | 02:48 |
| nixternal | imbrandon i like the orange | 02:49 |
| Hobbsee | Burgundavia: right.. | 02:49 |
| nixternal | i don't know why | 02:49 |
| === Hobbsee wasnt. seh likely just said it wrong :P | ||
| nixternal | and the glx compiz stuff is cool as wel | 02:49 |
| Burgundavia | Hobbsee: there we go | 02:49 |
| imbrandon_ | whats wrong with compiz xgl on kde nixternal ? runs fine here | 02:49 |
| Burgundavia | funny. I have been involved with Ubuntu since october 2004 and yet I have never even tried Edubuntu, Kubuntu or Xubuntu, even in the live cd versions | 02:50 |
| imbrandon_ | hahah Burgundavia grab a live 6.06.1 kubuntu dapper | 02:50 |
| imbrandon_ | you'll never go back ;) | 02:50 |
| Burgundavia | funny, I really don't feel the need | 02:50 |
| nixternal | i followed the forums and didn't have fun, put it that way | 02:50 |
| imbrandon_ | Burgundavia: most windows users say the same thing ;) | 02:51 |
| imbrandon_ | nixternal: the forums dont do it the easy "edgy" way ;) | 02:51 |
| imbrandon_ | arg Hobbsee your not building on voyager atm are you ? | 02:55 |
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: nope | 02:55 |
| === Hobbsee isnt doing any building/packaging at the moment | ||
| imbrandon_ | kk dont for the next ~1 hour or so please | 02:56 |
| Hobbsee | cool | 02:56 |
| === Hobbsee wont be doing anything on it for at least 4. | ||
| === Hobbsee wonders what imbrandon is up to | ||
| imbrandon_ | i *cough* deleted the base.tgz | 03:01 |
| === imbrandon_ looks at the ceiling | ||
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: was this on purpose, or by accident? | 03:01 |
| imbrandon_ | accident | 03:01 |
| imbrandon_ | lol | 03:01 |
| imbrandon_ | its rebuilding now | 03:01 |
| imbrandon_ | heh | 03:01 |
| Hobbsee | is it rebuilding with the right distro? | 03:01 |
| imbrandon_ | yes | 03:01 |
| Hobbsee | cool | 03:01 |
| === Hobbsee has had trouble with that before :( | ||
| === imbrandon_ isnt a /total/ dodo hehehe | ||
| Hobbsee | silly imbrandon :P | 03:02 |
| imbrandon_ | nah thats easy , i got pbuilders down pat now | 03:02 |
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: that's still smarter than deleting .gnupg/ .irssi/ and ./thunderbird | 03:02 |
| imbrandon_ | i spent 2 days learing all the quarks about them | 03:02 |
| imbrandon_ | ouch | 03:02 |
| imbrandon_ | heh | 03:02 |
| Hobbsee | s#./thunderbird#.thunderbird/# | 03:02 |
| imbrandon_ | keep a nightly backup ;) rsync is your friend | 03:03 |
| Hobbsee | yeah, or be a little more careful with rm -rf | 03:03 |
| imbrandon_ | and s#./th#.th#g would work ;) heheheh /me is just being an arse now | 03:03 |
| Hobbsee | good point. | 03:04 |
| === Hobbsee isnt great with all that | ||
| imbrandon_ | or s/.\/th/.th/g | 03:04 |
| === imbrandon_ actualy hates reg expression, they are great but 99% of the mistakes i make coding are becouse of a reg expression | ||
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| Hobbsee | *pokes* | 09:00 |
| Hobbsee | anyone around here who's used gstreamer engine a bit? | 09:00 |
| Hobbsee | !edgy | 09:01 |
| ubotu | edgy is the current development version of Ubuntu. Version 6.10, codename "Edgy Eft". For support head to #ubuntu+1. For its release schedule, see !schedule | 09:01 |
| Hobbsee | !schedule | 09:02 |
| ubotu | Ubuntu uses a strict timetable for releases, which means that sometimes newly released programs miss the timetable. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases for more. Edgy schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule | 09:02 |
| === mornfall_ is now known as mornfall | ||
| imbrandon | gstreamer is teh sucks , thats why 90% of things have it removed hehe | 09:02 |
| imbrandon | moins mornfall | 09:02 |
| imbrandon | err afternoon for ya ;) | 09:02 |
| === crimsun beats imbrandon with a GSt pipeline. | ||
| crimsun | Hobbsee: what's the issue? | 09:03 |
| imbrandon | hehe | 09:03 |
| Hobbsee | crimsun: we may get some gstreamer deps in a package related to amarok | 09:03 |
| crimsun | as in reinstating the former amarok-gstreamer package or some ilk? | 09:04 |
| imbrandon | ummm Hobbsee wont that tick the amarok devs off a bit as they droped support for it ( thats why they are all pissy at fedora atm ) | 09:04 |
| Hobbsee | crimsun: that too. | 09:04 |
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: they're the ones who are asking my opinion on it in the first place | 09:04 |
| imbrandon | if they can make it actualy work cool , heh , /me shudders at the last incarnation | 09:05 |
| imbrandon | please tell me amarok-xine wont be droped though | 09:05 |
| Hobbsee | it wont | 09:06 |
| imbrandon | also i would look at the common customizations spec too and talk with those guys as that was one of the things that the 3rd party apps installed ( amarok-xine ) when amarok-gstreamer was in uses | 09:06 |
| Hobbsee | http://shadowfax.homelinux.net/~guru/moodbar/ | 09:07 |
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: it's w.r.t that ^ | 09:07 |
| Hobbsee | which requires a lot of gstreamer deps for the second package | 09:07 |
| imbrandon | ye the moodbar was droped becouse of it afaik | 09:07 |
| imbrandon | last i talked to them atleaste | 09:07 |
| imbrandon | ( arround 1.4.1beta1 ) | 09:07 |
| Hobbsee | it got rewritten | 09:08 |
| crimsun | stupid firewall/gateway | 09:08 |
| imbrandon | (rev 572258) puts the moodbar support into amarok. It it adds absolutely no new dependencies, but will not be very functional without the above package installed. | 09:08 |
| crimsun | I hope that Web site is links-friendly! | 09:08 |
| imbrandon | crimsun: it is | 09:08 |
| imbrandon | all text | 09:08 |
| Hobbsee | hey, if we have a package in main, can we have a recommends in universe? | 09:08 |
| Hobbsee | or do all the recommends need to be in main too then? | 09:09 |
| mdz | Hobbsee: recommends should always be satisfiable | 09:09 |
| imbrandon | well if we move to recomends like riddell said i doubt it | 09:09 |
| mdz | it should be a Suggests otherwise | 09:09 |
| Hobbsee | oh hi mdz, didtn know you were watching | 09:09 |
| Hobbsee | right, yeah | 09:09 |
| imbrandon | Hobbsee: the lower patch adds the same functionality with no gstreamer deps | 09:10 |
| mdz | I wasn't, but I've stopped by to check in | 09:10 |
| Hobbsee | ah, fair enough | 09:10 |
| === Hobbsee hides from the big and scary mdz | ||
| Hobbsee | :P | 09:10 |
| imbrandon | hehe | 09:10 |
| mdz | I am neither big nor scary and I will soundly refute any arguments to the contrary | 09:10 |
| Hobbsee | mdz: right... | 09:14 |
| === Hobbsee hasnt forgotten that bug report. | ||
| mdz | bug report? | 09:14 |
| Hobbsee | mdz: one that i confirmed, as i'd gotten other people to confirm it on irc, and you full on yelled at me over confirming my own bugs. | 09:15 |
| mdz | Hobbsee: bug#? | 09:15 |
| Hobbsee | i dont have it now, it was a while ago :P | 09:15 |
| mdz | I'm not in the habit of yelling at anyone, though I could very well have asked you not to do that | 09:16 |
| mdz | it helps to accompany changes with an explanatory comment in those situations | 09:16 |
| Hobbsee | true. i think i forgot that | 09:16 |
| === Hobbsee is getting lazy with bugs. i see too many of them | ||
| === Hobbsee shrugs | ||
| Hobbsee | crimsun: possible amarok-gstreamer would be a long way off, if it happened at all. and gstreamer would have to be way more stable. | 09:33 |
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| seaLne | Hobbsee: could you look at Bug #56168 and Bug #23326 are wishlist | 10:53 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 56168 in k3b "k3b should *not* calculate md5 sum of images by default" [Untriaged,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/56168 | 10:53 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 23326 in k3b "k3b should unmount a CD before burning" [Medium,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/23326 | 10:53 |
| seaLne | s/are/i think are/ | 10:53 |
| crimsun | 56168 is a valid wishlist imo | 10:53 |
| crimsun | as is 23326 | 10:54 |
| seaLne | they are certainly not things we can do anything about | 10:55 |
| imbrandon | and both are filed upstream too iirc | 10:56 |
| Hobbsee | yeah. i'd mark them as upstream | 10:56 |
| seaLne | ah is there an importance of "upstream"? | 10:57 |
| Hobbsee | well, you add the upstream bugtracker | 11:00 |
| === Hobbsee is known to mark it as rejected here, as it's not our bug, but i've been told that's a bad thing (tm) | ||
| imbrandon | wishlist it and find the bug upstream and link it with the +upstream | 11:01 |
| seaLne | Hobbsee: if you could wishlist them i'll sort the upstream | 11:01 |
| Hobbsee | seaLne: for both? sure | 11:01 |
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: can do that too. | 11:01 |
| seaLne | are you supposed to just create products so that you can do upstream? | 11:03 |
| imbrandon | dosent kde have a product already ? | 11:04 |
| seaLne | is it kde rather than k3b? | 11:04 |
| seaLne | i have no idea what products are supposed to be | 11:05 |
| Hobbsee | if it doesnt have k3b, pick the closest | 11:05 |
| imbrandon | well if it uses the kde bug tracker i would use the kde product | 11:05 |
| Hobbsee | that's what i've been using | 11:05 |
| Hobbsee | and say it's the kde bug tracker, of course. just file it under the closest package name | 11:05 |
| seaLne | kdemultimedia? | 11:05 |
| imbrandon | wha ? | 11:06 |
| imbrandon | Hobbsee: s/package/product | 11:06 |
| imbrandon | seaLne: use the kde product and file it against the kde bugtracker for the bug number you find | 11:07 |
| Hobbsee | yeah, that. | 11:07 |
| seaLne | there isn't a kde product | 11:07 |
| Hobbsee | seaLne: that'll do :P | 11:07 |
| Hobbsee | seaLne: i've yet to see the product actually do much - as long as you get the right number for the kde bugtracker, it seems to all work fine | 11:07 |
| seaLne | it means tho that the bug is now listed under kdemultimedia rather than k3b | 11:08 |
| Hobbsee | seaLne: the upstream bug bit is, iirc | 11:08 |
| imbrandon | just the upstream bit | 11:09 |
| seaLne | hmm ah its confusing | 11:09 |
| Hobbsee | true | 11:10 |
| Hobbsee | seaLne: welcome to LP :P | 11:10 |
| seaLne | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/k3b/+bug/56168 and https://launchpad.net/products/kdemultimedia/+bug/56168 | 11:10 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 56168 in kdemultimedia "k3b should *not* calculate md5 sum of images by default" [Unknown,Unknown] | 11:10 |
| Hobbsee | seaLne: looks good. | 11:12 |
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| seaLne | and i thought ubuntu bugs were badly written, half of k3b bugs have a subject of k3b can't burn or similar | 11:21 |
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| toma | moguh | 11:32 |
| Hobbsee | seaLne: heh. yep | 11:48 |
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| === el [n=konversa@p54BD0E6A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Lure | Hobbsee: crimsun did upload powersave, can you look at kpowersave: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2874 | 12:44 |
| Hobbsee | Lure: sure. does it work? | 12:45 |
| Lure | Hobbsee: of course, otherwise I would not upload it to revu... ;-) | 12:45 |
| Lure | Hobbsee: works for me (disclaimer) | 12:45 |
| Lure | ;-) | 12:45 |
| Hobbsee | hehe | 12:46 |
| Hobbsee | !ssh | 01:40 |
| ubotu | ssh is the Secure SHell protocol (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SSHHowto). Putty is a nice SSH client for Windows, which can be found at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ | 01:40 |
| seaLne | Lure: thanks for adding that bug comment i'd forgotten it wasn't in the bug report oops :) | 01:50 |
| Lure | seaLne: no pp | 01:50 |
| Lure | s/pp/pb/ | 01:51 |
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| toma | imbrandon: ping | 02:21 |
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| seaLne | http://basket.kde.org/likeback.php is pretty cool if people haven't seen it | 02:28 |
| === chavo [n=chavo@67-22-110-236.atlsfl.adelphia.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Hobbsee | seaLne: yeah. did that get added to the meeting agenda? and does upstream have to include that, or do we? | 02:29 |
| Hobbsee | presumably that's more of an upstream thing. | 02:29 |
| seaLne | yeah but not nessesarily | 02:30 |
| toma | Hobbsee: probably pretty easy to patch kdelibs to show up in all apps | 02:30 |
| Hobbsee | seeing as i'm suspecting that people will mostly report upstream bugs with it. | 02:30 |
| Hobbsee | toma: indeed. but hwat do we do with the bug reports? | 02:30 |
| toma | we can disable the bug thingie | 02:31 |
| seaLne | what were you meaning about the agenda? | 02:31 |
| Hobbsee | seaLne: add it to the meeting agenda, so everyone sees/discusses it? | 02:31 |
| toma | we only want the 'i like' button, dont we? | 02:31 |
| seaLne | hehe | 02:31 |
| freeflying | how do we encrypted the passwd of user in livecd? DSA? SHA? thanks | 02:33 |
| danimo | I'd be careful about likeback | 02:33 |
| danimo | upstream is working on a way to make the feedback maintainable | 02:33 |
| seaLne | "you clicked don't like, we presume this was a mistake and have changed your vote to like" :) | 02:33 |
| Hobbsee | toma: hehe! | 02:34 |
| seaLne | danimo: any more details? | 02:34 |
| danimo | seaLne: no, only that there is a debate going on at kde-core-devel | 02:35 |
| danimo | seaLne: read it via gmaine.org nntp if you care | 02:35 |
| toma | danimo: the idea is good I think, the feedback can be enormous indeed | 02:36 |
| danimo | toma: yes, we need some sort of rubbish filter | 02:38 |
| danimo | toma: and means to translate good ideas into implementable strategies | 02:38 |
| === fritsch [i=O8Mcujbd@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| seaLne | would you just enable it before release? | 02:38 |
| danimo | seaLne: one suggestion was to always enable it on betas and optionally enable it on final releases | 02:38 |
| seaLne | yeah it could look bad for releases | 02:39 |
| toma | i'm not so sure to enable it on final releases, but we'll learn about that soon enough | 02:39 |
| danimo | toma: I agree with ellen there | 02:39 |
| danimo | toma: only enabling it on beta's empowers the geek-type of testers to push their ideas | 02:40 |
| toma | danimo: i'm a bit behind on k-c-d, have not read everything | 02:40 |
| toma | but ellen is usually right ;-) | 02:40 |
| danimo | toma: and those already know how to use bugs.k.o anyway | 02:40 |
| danimo | toma: yes, she still is in touch with reality :) | 02:40 |
| toma | o, that is true, but prepare for a lot of feedback if you enalbe it in final releases | 02:41 |
| === Hobbsee wonders if el in here is ellen. | ||
| danimo | Hobbsee: she is | 02:41 |
| danimo | hi el :) | 02:41 |
| Hobbsee | ahh :) | 02:41 |
| toma | ah ;-) | 02:41 |
| el | hi Hobbsee, hi danimo :) | 02:41 |
| === Hobbsee waves to el, now that she has a clue of who she actually *is* | ||
| === el waves to Hobbsee | ||
| danimo | may I introduce: Hobbsee: ellen of openusability fame: Ellen: Sarah, the kubuntu Community Goddess | 02:42 |
| Hobbsee | hah | 02:42 |
| toma | i think it is a bit too easy maybe for people to report nonsense with likeback | 02:42 |
| === Hobbsee certainly isnt a goddess.... | ||
| danimo | Hobbsee: I think they call Goddesses Community Managers nowadays | 02:42 |
| Hobbsee | el: you'd be http://people.kde.nl/ellen.html <-- that ellen, then. | 02:42 |
| danimo | Hobbsee: I'm old school :) | 02:42 |
| Hobbsee | hehe | 02:43 |
| el | yes Hobbsee | 02:43 |
| el | good to see another woman here :) | 02:43 |
| Hobbsee | gotcha | 02:43 |
| Hobbsee | yes | 02:43 |
| Hobbsee | el: take over the world together? | 02:43 |
| el | ytou are talking about likeback? | 02:43 |
| danimo | el: yes | 02:43 |
| toma | Hobbsee: you need a picture to show to el now | 02:43 |
| el | haha, definetly :) | 02:43 |
| danimo | el: we still need a sensible way to filter feedback | 02:43 |
| danimo | el: actually, we do have the same problem today already | 02:43 |
| Hobbsee | http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/9838/hobbseecar10ii.jpg | 02:44 |
| Hobbsee | http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/3909/hobbseecar22fk.jpg | 02:44 |
| Hobbsee | there you go | 02:44 |
| Hobbsee | el: ^ | 02:44 |
| danimo | el: bugs.k.o contains a lot of crap | 02:44 |
| el | Hobbsee, you live in australia, no? | 02:45 |
| seaLne | k-d-c discussion: http://lists.kde.org/?t=115532209400011&r=1&w=2 | 02:45 |
| el | danimo, yes, that's a real problem | 02:45 |
| Hobbsee | el: yeah, sydney | 02:45 |
| === el waves again - to the other end of the world ;-) | ||
| Hobbsee | hehe | 02:45 |
| toma | s/other// | 02:45 |
| el | :) | 02:45 |
| danimo | /~ It's the end of the world as we know it ~/ | 02:46 |
| === danimo sings | ||
| toma | rem | 02:46 |
| el | danimo, do you thnk of introducing likeback for everybody, or just for beta testers? | 02:46 |
| danimo | el: I agree with your point | 02:46 |
| danimo | el: we are biased by our tech-focused beta-testers way too much | 02:46 |
| danimo | el: otoh, they can provide good bug reports | 02:47 |
| seaLne | :) | 02:47 |
| toma | yes, it is a good qay to find typo's, dialog trouble and that stuff | 02:47 |
| el | yeah, but i had to think about my talk with mpt (hobbsee knows him, i guess) who said that making bug reports too easy will overload every bug system | 02:47 |
| Hobbsee | el: i dont know mpt | 02:47 |
| === chavo [n=chavo@67-22-110-236.atlsfl.adelphia.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Hobbsee | i dont know most people | 02:47 |
| danimo | el: so if we decide "against" those lowhanging fruits in favour of a less biased feedback we definately need an instance between reporters and developers | 02:47 |
| Hobbsee | el: i've only ever met stevenk and ajmitch in person. | 02:47 |
| el | Hobbsee, he is user interface designer for launchpad | 02:47 |
| Hobbsee | el: ahh... | 02:47 |
| el | danimo, yes, i think so too | 02:48 |
| danimo | el: but who would do that? | 02:48 |
| danimo | el: and why? | 02:48 |
| toma | not having to report back to each and every report saves a lot of time | 02:48 |
| danimo | el: we need to know that so we can actually attract people for those positions | 02:48 |
| danimo | toma: right | 02:48 |
| danimo | e.g. opensuse.org has a great bug squad, but those are all paid | 02:49 |
| el | danimo, hmm... i mean the input is really very fruitful for usability people. but we are too few.... | 02:49 |
| danimo | el: no, you are the wrong group | 02:49 |
| danimo | el: I imagine people that are not too much into technology, but know about about kde to judge | 02:49 |
| el | for the bugs we are the wrong group, but not for feature requests, likes and dislikes | 02:49 |
| danimo | el: and people that are open to new technologies and ideas | 02:49 |
| danimo | el: well, those have to be forwarded appropriately | 02:49 |
| danimo | el: maybe, each group (hci, dev, docs) could send one representative to be member of the like-back squad | 02:50 |
| Hobbsee | el: you're german. i'm very jealous. | 02:50 |
| danimo | Hobbsee: yeah, being in germany helps a lot for all purposes of KDE development | 02:50 |
| el | why are you jealous to being german? it's pretty cold and rainy here, Hobbsee ;-) | 02:50 |
| Hobbsee | hah | 02:50 |
| danimo | Hobbsee: even better, she's in berlin | 02:50 |
| Hobbsee | yeah, okay, i dont like cold and rainy | 02:51 |
| el | ;-) | 02:51 |
| danimo | Hobbsee: so she's got all cool folks around | 02:51 |
| === Hobbsee studied german for a while. sounds like a nice place. | ||
| el | more an more kde people move to berlin now, that's cool | 02:51 |
| === danimo gets there twice a year and usually checks into hotel ellen :) | ||
| Hobbsee | so if i ever got to germany, i could gatecrash at one of your places. right. | 02:51 |
| Hobbsee | hehe | 02:51 |
| el | we met matthias a few days ago, that was fun | 02:51 |
| danimo | el: ettrich? cool | 02:52 |
| toma | danimo: do you have any idea what kind of filter would be needed? | 02:52 |
| el | Hobbsee, haha, my guest room is yours :) | 02:52 |
| el | danimo, yes, we got pretty drunk ;-) wodka.... | 02:52 |
| toma | liek, what do we dont want to know | 02:52 |
| Hobbsee | el: nice. i'll hold you to that, you know :P | 02:52 |
| danimo | el: hehe, yeah, matthias is a cool guys to drink with, if he actually decides to get drunk | 02:52 |
| Hobbsee | el: although i think you're safe. i doubt i'll get to germany. and my german would be extremely rusty. | 02:52 |
| el | Hobbsee, sure! :) | 02:52 |
| danimo | Hobbsee: we could change that, no worries :) | 02:52 |
| Hobbsee | hah | 02:53 |
| el | Hobbsee, no need to know German ;-) | 02:53 |
| el | ok, back to likeback.... | 02:53 |
| danimo | Hobbsee: you have no ideas how many americans run aroun in berlin without knowing one single word of german :) | 02:53 |
| Hobbsee | el: yeah, you all seem to speak pretty good englihs | 02:53 |
| Hobbsee | danimo: point. | 02:53 |
| danimo | el: yeah, bring us back to topic | 02:53 |
| danimo | :) | 02:53 |
| el | i think there should also be an easy tag system for users - so that the first classification is done on user level | 02:54 |
| Hobbsee | danimo: we have a topic? | 02:54 |
| danimo | Hobbsee: likeback | 02:54 |
| Hobbsee | oh dear, this feels like some of our kubuntu meetings again | 02:54 |
| el | haha | 02:54 |
| danimo | Hobbsee: nah | 02:54 |
| === Hobbsee is still trying to figure out where el fits, w.r.t. kubuntu | ||
| danimo | Hobbsee: usability | 02:54 |
| toma | Hobbsee: yesterday you wanted to take over those meetings, so you can practise now. | 02:54 |
| Hobbsee | well, obviously. i was looking for more detail than that. | 02:55 |
| === Hobbsee knew that ellen and usability went together before she realised that el = ellen = was at UDS. | ||
| danimo | ok, so we have a problem: too much input, very little gold nuggest inbetween common whining and actual bug reports | 02:55 |
| toma | el: what kind of tags? | 02:55 |
| Hobbsee | toma: true. | 02:55 |
| el | Hobbsee, i was at the last ubuntu sprint in paris and helped a bit out with the ui of several applications | 02:55 |
| superstoned | ppl, does anybody know whazzup with the memory usage of etch? | 02:56 |
| superstoned | a clean login (yes, with a lot of apps in the session) uses twice the ram from the previous release, dapper (i upgraded yesterday). for example, klipper ATM uses 9.5 % of my 1 gig ram!!! KLIPPER!!! wtf??? | 02:56 |
| Hobbsee | superstoned: etch? this is kubuntu, mate | 02:56 |
| superstoned | efty | 02:56 |
| superstoned | i mix up the names :D | 02:56 |
| Hobbsee | edgy? | 02:56 |
| superstoned | yeah | 02:56 |
| Hobbsee | el: gotcha. which apps? | 02:56 |
| Hobbsee | superstoned: want to pastebin ps aux? | 02:56 |
| el | toma, that's something we have to find out. possibly parts of the applicatications in questions | 02:57 |
| superstoned | ok | 02:57 |
| el | Hobbsee, system settings, power management, file transfer dialog... several specs that were discussed there | 02:57 |
| danimo | el: bugzilla has a karma system for users already | 02:57 |
| toma | el: that info is already provided, the objects name gets returned, so we exactly know which dialog the user is talking about | 02:57 |
| Hobbsee | el: nice :) | 02:57 |
| Hobbsee | el: i didnt follow UDS that closely - i was in the middle of uni exams, etc. | 02:58 |
| danimo | el: my idea would be the following: | 02:58 |
| el | toma, for the bugs, yes. but not for like/dislike | 02:58 |
| Hobbsee | hence i dont know | 02:58 |
| superstoned | hOBBSEE: http://paste.uni.cc/9289 | 02:58 |
| danimo | el: how about a ticket system for likeback? | 02:58 |
| toma | el: for ilike/dislike as well | 02:58 |
| toma | el: let me show you the admin interface, one sec | 02:58 |
| el | toma, ok | 02:58 |
| danimo | el: nah, scrap that | 02:59 |
| el | danimo, ticket system? | 02:59 |
| danimo | el: scap that | 02:59 |
| danimo | el: lets see... | 02:59 |
| danimo | el: we currently have bugzilla for reporting all kind of issues | 02:59 |
| Hobbsee | superstoned: doenst look too unreasonable. konsole looks a bit high, maybe | 02:59 |
| danimo | el: so the question is: do we want to use bugzilla for all kind of likeback feedback? | 03:00 |
| danimo | el: I think it doesn't make sense | 03:00 |
| toma | http://toma.kovoks.nl/admin/view.php | 03:00 |
| danimo | el: since not all likeback issues will be actually bugs or suggestions | 03:00 |
| superstoned | well, hobbsee, point is, yesterday, before i shut down, it was 50% of this... only diff is i did a upgrade to edgy. so i wonder if anybody has seen this too? | 03:00 |
| danimo | el: so my idea was to have a ticketing system | 03:00 |
| el | danimo, it might overfloat bugzilla. i think only approved issues should go into bugzilla | 03:01 |
| danimo | el: that allows to handle like likeback reports | 03:01 |
| Hobbsee | superstoned: which kde were you using before and after upgrade? | 03:01 |
| superstoned | 3.5.4 | 03:01 |
| seaLne | with a way to migrate bugs to lp/bugs.k.o? | 03:01 |
| danimo | el: like a small small frontend that generates feedback | 03:01 |
| danimo | el: err, tickets from feedback | 03:02 |
| toma | current bugzilla has more problems. As soon as there is a new release, old bugreports should be closed and people should be asked to reopen if needed. that would keep the trash level way lower | 03:02 |
| danimo | el: it would then take a small group of people to review the feedback and turn those tickets that actually contain issues to the bug tracker | 03:02 |
| Hobbsee | superstoned: would you happen to be running X from a chroot or something? | 03:02 |
| Hobbsee | toma: hmmm...i wonder if we could do that with LP.... | 03:02 |
| el | danimo, different from the one that toma just posted? | 03:02 |
| danimo | el: that's about the same what trolltech does if you send reports to qt-bugs | 03:02 |
| superstoned | nope, tough i started it from the commandline by hand cuz when i use KDM i can't see fonts on the screen, it's all white... | 03:03 |
| toma | Hobbsee: it is a small thing to ask from a user imho | 03:03 |
| superstoned | with X | 03:03 |
| danimo | toma: that looks good | 03:03 |
| superstoned | that's why i use XGL now | 03:03 |
| Hobbsee | toma: true. i wonder if/how that would work with LP. | 03:03 |
| el | danimo, yes, sounds reasonable. but if toma's admin interface would allow to transfer issues to bugzilla it would be ok, no? | 03:03 |
| danimo | el: absolutely | 03:03 |
| danimo | el: I hadn't have a look at toma's interface yet | 03:03 |
| superstoned | toma, hobbsee: i agree old bugs should be closed after a new release, yes. keeps things clean. | 03:03 |
| el | danimo, http://toma.kovoks.nl/admin/view.php | 03:03 |
| danimo | el: I just saw it | 03:04 |
| Hobbsee | superstoned: unfortunately, dapper and edgy bugs are filed at the same time, so i'm not sure how you'd figure that out. | 03:04 |
| danimo | el: all it would take is a "create bug report from feedback" | 03:04 |
| el | danimo, jupp | 03:04 |
| toma | indeed | 03:04 |
| el | still, who should go through all the reports and why? | 03:04 |
| el | developers won't have the time, usability neither... | 03:04 |
| danimo | el: that's the point | 03:04 |
| danimo | el: if we want to do this, we need to attract a new type of contributors | 03:05 |
| el | yes | 03:05 |
| toma | i'm happy to keep an eye on them as author of the app | 03:05 |
| danimo | el: sorta like those who always wanted to spend time on the project, but couldn't | 03:05 |
| el | Hobbsee, community goddess - how do we get new contributors??? | 03:05 |
| toma | just because there are also positive feedback | 03:05 |
| danimo | el: the amount of positive likes should keep the motivated we home :) | 03:05 |
| superstoned | anyway, nobody noticed big mem usage compared to dapper, i guess, so it's likely an anomaly here. anyone noticed the text doesn't show? | 03:05 |
| toma | something missing in bugzilla | 03:05 |
| Hobbsee | el: good question. do tell when you find the answer. | 03:06 |
| el | :) | 03:06 |
| === danimo would suggest a call on the dot, published through many online garzettes | ||
| el | danimo, jupp. | 03:06 |
| Hobbsee | el: we need to get our current devs active in the most useful ways possible, before bothering to get mroe new people | 03:07 |
| danimo | this way we can turn the tech-savvy people into "community translators" | 03:07 |
| Hobbsee | fortunately, that's already starting to happen | 03:07 |
| toma | if the upstream author only sees a new flow of bugreports, then that would not work. | 03:07 |
| Hobbsee | el: unfortunately, you cant say "go attack the buglist" because they dont really have the expertise to fix the bugs. | 03:07 |
| danimo | toma: well, if those bugreports are good, he will | 03:07 |
| toma | so a filter, which removes all 'i like' items and makes new reports from the i dont like. would not work for me | 03:07 |
| danimo | toma: like it would also be their job to find duplicates, etc | 03:07 |
| danimo | toma: no, this won't work purely automatically | 03:08 |
| danimo | although I think we could automate a lot | 03:08 |
| danimo | like the feedback | 03:08 |
| === rraphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| toma | i just see it as a database with reaction i would walk through when i'm entering hacking mode | 03:09 |
| el | Hobbsee, yeah, that's true. but right now, we were referring to contributors who go through the LikeBack feedback reports to order them, not fix the bugs. | 03:09 |
| danimo | "Dear User, I have read your LikeBack entry and forwarded it to the developer of <application>. If you want to follow the activity on this report, visist <url>. Thanks for your contribution. XY | 03:09 |
| Hobbsee | el: true. | 03:10 |
| Hobbsee | currently i'm not even being able to comprehend a solution to that | 03:10 |
| === insanekane [n=kane@202.83.32.168] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| danimo | we need to find a pitch for the dot story | 03:10 |
| danimo | like a motivation | 03:10 |
| Hobbsee | danimo: i could axe murder you? | 03:10 |
| danimo | Hobbsee: sure, come over and try :) | 03:11 |
| Hobbsee | danimo: hehe. it could be a talking point, you know. | 03:11 |
| danimo | Hobbsee: hmm? | 03:11 |
| Hobbsee | "hey, i was axe murdered last week" | 03:11 |
| seaLne | isn't axe a bit old fashioned? chainsaw would be less work | 03:12 |
| el | haha | 03:12 |
| Hobbsee | lol | 03:13 |
| toma | there is a difference for small apps and bug apps | 03:13 |
| toma | kmail has enough feed back, although the quality is not that high. | 03:13 |
| danimo | yes | 03:14 |
| danimo | we face that problem a lot | 03:14 |
| Hobbsee | heh. bug apps | 03:14 |
| toma | smaller apps hardly have feedback | 03:14 |
| Hobbsee | toma: yes, but they surely shouldnt need it, as they're non-bug apps, by definition :P | 03:14 |
| === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Hobbsee | hi bddebian | 03:14 |
| danimo | toma: well, for instance with kmail, we only occasionally get feedback from people who found their mails trashed | 03:14 |
| Hobbsee | bddebian: can go thru all the bugs. | 03:14 |
| danimo | toma: but the more people we get to report the incident, the better the chance to reproduce the underlying problem | 03:15 |
| danimo | toma: so "bug apps" have a chance there, too | 03:15 |
| toma | danimo: exactly, but i dont think likeback is suitable for it | 03:15 |
| toma | that | 03:15 |
| seaLne | one of the problems is that there isn't an easy way to automatically find dups | 03:15 |
| bddebian | Heya folks | 03:15 |
| bddebian | Hi Hobbsee | 03:15 |
| toma | buzilla isnt either btw | 03:16 |
| bddebian | Hobbsee: I can? :-) | 03:16 |
| Hobbsee | bddebian: yep | 03:16 |
| seaLne | bddebian: unfortunatly you won't have time to sleep for the rest of your life | 03:16 |
| toma | seaLne: but, how difficult would it be to write that? | 03:16 |
| el | hm, toma, but if imagine to be a non-technical user: wouldn't you be frustrated if you're able to give LikeBack feedback to a bug-free app, but not to a bug app? | 03:16 |
| danimo | toma: maybe that's wanting too much | 03:16 |
| bddebian | seaLne: Well I'm used to that lately :-) | 03:17 |
| toma | el: yes. I dont have all the answers here | 03:17 |
| seaLne | toma: to me it seems difficult i imagine its a IR problem | 03:17 |
| el | toma, i think if we decide to offer LikeBack in final releases, then it should be available for the majority of apps, and especially for the core apps | 03:18 |
| === abattoir [n=abattoir@59.92.57.49] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| danimo | el: true | 03:18 |
| toma | danimo: why? if you would make a system where a user can report bugs which are reproducable.. let them enter each step. the second user can choose from the pulldown of previous users or enter a new step. we could catch dup. reproducable bugs | 03:20 |
| toma | el: ok, but then a filter would only be needed for the large (&buggy) apps | 03:20 |
| el | yes, probably, toma | 03:20 |
| seaLne | assuming you could detect dups, a possibility could be to set a threshhold of X people must have reported this before it gets escalated? | 03:20 |
| toma | kjots author can probably deal with the feedback | 03:20 |
| el | toma, yes | 03:20 |
| toma | seaLne: for bugs which are reproducable it is usually easy to fix them | 03:30 |
| toma | so even a single report would be enough for me | 03:31 |
| Hobbsee | hey cool. kwifimanager isnt on the menus in edgy. | 03:31 |
| danimo | Hobbsee: very good | 03:32 |
| === Hobbsee installs a package that she fixed a while ago | ||
| Hobbsee | at least i know it works now :_ | 03:33 |
| Hobbsee | yay. it has another bug though :P | 03:33 |
| seaLne | i was thinking as a way to make it easier to go through them if you saw that 5 people had reported the same thing you might look at it more closely than the thousand other reports | 03:33 |
| toma | seaLne: yes, you are right | 03:34 |
| el | seaLne, yes, it helps to set priorities for fixing bugs | 03:34 |
| toma | but what we miss is an organised system to report reproducable bugs | 03:35 |
| toma | and a system to cleanup the current bug system | 03:36 |
| el | toma, well, bug trackers have a two-fold functionality: on the one hand, they report bugs to developers. on the other hadn, they help users to calm down when they were frustrated by the system. | 03:40 |
| === Hobbsee has just discovered amarok's bug reporting system, it seems. | ||
| el | toma, for frustrated users, it reporting a bug must be really easy. writing down reproductions steps is alreaday too much in many cases | 03:41 |
| el | on the other hand, reports that cannot be reproduced won't help the developers... | 03:41 |
| toma | indeed, just about o say that ;-) | 03:41 |
| Hobbsee | neat that they get you to email with a backtrace | 03:41 |
| === Hobbsee wonders why she hadnt noticed that before | ||
| seaLne | you have never had amarok crash?! | 03:42 |
| seaLne | wow | 03:42 |
| Hobbsee | nope | 03:42 |
| el | is the information in the backtrace usually sufficient to identify the source of the problem? | 03:42 |
| Hobbsee | i dont think so | 03:42 |
| seaLne | el: unlikely | 03:42 |
| toma | valid backtraces should be reported with one click (report yes/no) | 03:42 |
| Hobbsee | el: dunno. i'm not good with backtraces. it had a lot of info though. | 03:42 |
| el | toma, yes | 03:42 |
| toma | el: valid backtraces are perfect | 03:43 |
| el | and possibly a free text field to write some angry lines ;-) | 03:43 |
| toma | yes ;-) | 03:43 |
| seaLne | Hobbsee: i rarely have amarok not hang/crash on me | 03:43 |
| el | (which is then removed before sent to the developer, haha) | 03:43 |
| seaLne | hehe | 03:43 |
| toma | haha | 03:43 |
| Hobbsee | seaLne: wow | 03:43 |
| Hobbsee | http://rafb.net/paste/results/5hjbSv91.html | 03:43 |
| toma | the problem is mostly that distributions dont ship the symbols needed for a valig backtrace | 03:44 |
| toma | by default | 03:44 |
| Hobbsee | toma: which ones are they? gdb, or osmething else? | 03:44 |
| seaLne | Hobbsee: do you listen to streams much? | 03:45 |
| Hobbsee | seaLne: no | 03:45 |
| Hobbsee | bandwidht limit, remember? | 03:45 |
| toma | Hobbsee: that are the -dbg packages | 03:45 |
| seaLne | ah, well streams seem to be the main problem with amarok | 03:45 |
| Hobbsee | toma: true that. that's one heck of a lot of packages | 03:45 |
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| seaLne | is listening to a 128k stream for an hour really ~0.5Gb or is my maths as bad as that seems? | 03:47 |
| toma | Hobbsee: well, there should be a separate repository with the same packages, build with debug enables or something... | 03:47 |
| toma | enabled | 03:47 |
| Hobbsee | toma: true | 03:47 |
| toma | if an app crashes without valid debug, it could offer to install that version of the app. | 03:48 |
| seaLne | toma: that sounds good | 03:48 |
| Hobbsee | hey nasty. 2 amarok crashes in one day. | 04:28 |
| === Hobbsee goes to find 1.4.2beta1 | ||
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| seaLne | its "good" to see the cd burning problem is affecting gnome stuff aswell | 05:18 |
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| hunger | Hi there. | 06:03 |
| hunger | Is there a way to stop that guidance power manager thing from offering to hibernate? | 06:03 |
| hunger | Anyone working on better icons for it? The current set looks like the battery is half full when it really is at 100%... | 06:05 |
| hunger | BenC: Pretty sure... I need to enter a passphrase to get to the filesystem that fsck complains about. | 06:12 |
| hunger | BenC: And I only get asked for the passphrase after waiting. | 06:12 |
| hunger | BenC: That dmesg log is not really helpful I am afraid:-( | 06:13 |
| hunger | BenC: Which script outputs this driver loading message? | 06:15 |
| hunger | BenC: Ah, S10udev... | 06:16 |
| hunger | BenC: assuming that went OK the delay could be caused in S11mountdevsubfs.sh, S13pcmciautils, S15module-init-tools, S17procps.sh, S20checkroot.sh, S22mtab.sh, S26lvm and S27evms. | 06:17 |
| hunger | mountdevsubfs.sh seems unlikely... as does S22mtab.sh and S20checkroot.sh (which might actually be the fsck right after the trackpad thinking about it:-) | 06:20 |
| Lure | hunger: no BenC here... | 06:54 |
| hunger | Lure: Oh, sorry. Wrong channel once again:-( | 06:58 |
| Lure | hunger: no problem for us, just that you get your message trough... ;-) | 06:59 |
| hunger | Lure: It is a dup bug anyway:-) | 06:59 |
| hunger | I just hope it will get fixed anyway... | 07:00 |
| === hunger has high hopes for edgy... so far it actually does seam to work on my box. | ||
| Lure | hunger: regarding guidance power manager - it is first alpha release and you should report feedback to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuPowerManagementFeedback | 07:00 |
| hunger | Lure, Thanks, I will! | 07:01 |
| === Lure goes to grab some food | ||
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| hunger | Lure: Which package contains the guidance power manager? | 07:14 |
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| Lure | hunger: kde-guidance | 07:46 |
| Lure | now I remember where I have seen purple color windows: http://r-101.blogspot.com/ (see Aug 1992) ;-) | 08:14 |
| toma | where do the tar-balls merge-o-matic mentions go? | 08:19 |
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| Sime | what was that url for the patched kdelibs + kdebase? | 09:13 |
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| toma | Sime: deb http://www.buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/packages/simes-patches/debs/ ./ | 09:45 |
| Sime | thx | 09:49 |
| Sime | toma: is there a wiki page about these patches already? | 09:50 |
| toma | Sime: no idea | 09:50 |
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| Sime | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuKDEMedia | 10:41 |
| Sime | does now | 10:41 |
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