| === ddaa [n=ddaa@nor75-18-82-241-238-155.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| === jamesh [n=james@203-59-20-109.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| ddaa | Still missing mpool and Steve | 12:01 |
|---|---|---|
| === mpool [n=mbp@ozlabs.tip.net.au] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| === SteveA [n=steve@costello.z3u.com] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| mpool | hi | 12:02 |
| ddaa | Hello | 12:03 |
| ddaa | Before the meeting starts | 12:03 |
| ddaa | I will have a short week | 12:03 |
| === irvin [n=ipp@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| ddaa | since I'm on leave starting thursday | 12:03 |
| SteveA | I'll not be paying much attention | 12:03 |
| SteveA | I'm in UI meetings here today | 12:03 |
| ddaa | until the 28th | 12:03 |
| ddaa | SteveA: there's one or two points where I think I'll need your attention, but okay | 12:04 |
| ddaa | MEETING STARTS | 12:04 |
| ddaa | == Agenda == | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * roll call | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * production status | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * Smart server | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * SFTP advertising | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * vcs-import knits | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * URTF | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * Python import | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * bzr lp:// | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * important bugs according to bzr community | 12:04 |
| lifeless | hi | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * 1.0 targets, what, who when? | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * critical bugs | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * pending sysadmin tasks | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * any other business | 12:04 |
| ddaa | == Roll call == | 12:04 |
| ddaa | ddaa is here | 12:04 |
| ddaa | So is Steve | 12:04 |
| ddaa | mpool said hi | 12:04 |
| ddaa | so did lifeless | 12:04 |
| spiv | I'm here | 12:04 |
| jamesh | I'm here | 12:04 |
| ddaa | Wonderful. | 12:05 |
| ddaa | == Production status == | 12:05 |
| ddaa | Nothing new. https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/53825 | 12:05 |
| ddaa | jamesh: so, will we get oops from script or do we need a different plan to deal with those errors? | 12:05 |
| ddaa | last week you said you'll have a meeting with salgado about that | 12:05 |
| ddaa | Mh, apparently not... | 12:06 |
| ddaa | == Smart server == | 12:06 |
| ddaa | mpool, spiv: status? | 12:06 |
| jamesh | ddaa: I talked with matsubara about it last week. I don't think we'll have polished infrastructure for it soon, but I could set things up to get simple traceback OOPS reports | 12:06 |
| jamesh | ddaa: getting SQL statement logs is a fair bit more work due to differences between webapp and zopeless environments | 12:07 |
| spiv | We paired a couple of days on it last week, and have scheduled another day on Wednesday. | 12:07 |
| mpool | ddaa: continuing to work with spiv on it; pairing on wednesday this week | 12:07 |
| ddaa | spiv: mpool: any delivery estimate, for the non-integrated bit at least? | 12:08 |
| spiv | There are a fair few tests that make assumptions about the transport that need tweaking. | 12:08 |
| ddaa | jamesh: basically, kiko is your client for that stuff, since he's the one I expect to find the error spam most annnoying first. | 12:08 |
| spiv | The plan is to get the last ~30 tests to pass, then start implementing actual smart operations on the new transport. | 12:09 |
| ddaa | spiv: think you'll get it up and running on launchpad for 1.0? | 12:09 |
| spiv | I think there's probably only a day or so left on getting the tests working, but I'm not sure how quickly it'll progress after that. I am getting more fluent with the bzrlib code, though. | 12:10 |
| ddaa | or is that a post 1.0 feature? | 12:10 |
| spiv | When's launchpad 1.0? | 12:10 |
| ddaa | end of september | 12:10 |
| === spiv hmms | ||
| ddaa | spiv: you'll have time to answer that at the end of the meeting | 12:12 |
| ddaa | moving on | 12:12 |
| spiv | I think it's possible, but I'm not going to commit to that right now. | 12:12 |
| ddaa | == SFTP advertising == | 12:12 |
| ddaa | jamesh posted a second draft at the end of the week. I intended to review it friday but got -ENOROUNDTUIT. | 12:12 |
| ddaa | Action: ddaa to review jamesh second draft real soon. | 12:12 |
| ddaa | spiv: last week you said you'd have a look, did you? | 12:12 |
| spiv | I did too. I haven't looked yet, I'll do that immediately after this meeting and reply. | 12:12 |
| SteveA | spiv: two things for the smartserver: running it on the supermirror so that bzr users at large get good network performance with the SM. | 12:12 |
| jamesh | I posted the second draft as a followup to the first thread | 12:12 |
| SteveA | also, running it on devpad for launchpad use | 12:12 |
| ddaa | Would be nice to get that blog posted at the end of the week. | 12:12 |
| ddaa | SteveA: if we make the smart server post 1.0, it would certainly be nice to have run on devpad for a while, so it can mature, before putting it on launchpad. | 12:14 |
| ddaa | == vcs-imports knits == | 12:14 |
| ddaa | As far as I can tell, it's done. All vcs-imports branches are know knits. But that consumed all my round tuits at the end the week. | 12:14 |
| ddaa | lifeless: mpool: I posted two patches to the bzr mailing list, that were needed for that. I would like to have them in rocketfuel shortly after I come back from leave (on the 28th). They are currently a divergence from rocketfuel in the production code. | 12:14 |
| ddaa | lifeless: apologies for blowing up on you on #bzr saturday morning | 12:15 |
| ddaa | Is that an action for anybody? | 12:16 |
| lifeless | blow up at me ? | 12:16 |
| ddaa | well, blaming you for turning that rollout into a 12 hours marathon | 12:17 |
| SteveA | ddaa: I need to focus on this UI discussion. I'll read the email summary after this meeting. Please ping me directly on this channel if there is something I need to contribute to. | 12:17 |
| ddaa | SteveA: ack | 12:17 |
| SteveA | ta | 12:17 |
| ddaa | Okay, moving on. I'd just like some quick feedback on those patch, although I'll probably won't be able to act on it before leave. | 12:18 |
| ddaa | == URTF == | 12:18 |
| ddaa | lifeless: jamesh: last week there was some talk about unblocking jamesh with urtf, how did that go? | 12:18 |
| lifeless | URTF ? | 12:18 |
| ddaa | Upstream Release Tarball Finder, you know... | 12:18 |
| ddaa | previously known as Dyson | 12:18 |
| jamesh | I'll look at implementing what was discussed this week | 12:19 |
| ddaa | jamesh: where can we see the output of that discussion? | 12:19 |
| jamesh | I was blocked last week due to sprints, rather than on input from other people | 12:19 |
| ddaa | I'd be interested in knowing what's going on with that thing, since I spend so many hours stuffing the db with data for that. | 12:20 |
| ddaa | s/spend/spent/ | 12:20 |
| lifeless | its in the bug | 12:20 |
| jamesh | ddaa: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/53698 | 12:20 |
| ddaa | Thanks | 12:20 |
| ddaa | == Python import == | 12:20 |
| ddaa | Last week I was asked to look into the problem with the Python import, that manifest itself as a DNS failure at random points in the middle of the import. | 12:20 |
| ddaa | Planned to do so friday. Did not. Bot noticed that other large SVN imports fail in the same way. That's probably our most serious cscvs bug ATM. | 12:20 |
| ddaa | Action: ddaa will file bug about that failure, and maybe look at it before going to leave. | 12:20 |
| ddaa | Though it's down the list of priorities, so would not like to promise looking at it soon. | 12:21 |
| ddaa | == bzr lp:// == | 12:22 |
| ddaa | sabdfl made some noises about that recently, which resulted in some activity. | 12:22 |
| ddaa | mpool wrote a spec about the bzr-launchpad integration aspect, I will review it this week. | 12:22 |
| ddaa | I put a braindump on the mailing list, but had no feedback. In short it boils down to: | 12:22 |
| ddaa | * one attribute: Use ProductSeries.branch both for the vcs-imports branch and for the user specified branch. That leads to model constraints, restrictions for the user, and complication. | 12:22 |
| ddaa | * two attributes: Use different attributes, say import_branch and explicit_trunk_branch. That essentially acknowledges that import != series, even though it's stuffed in the same table, and makes things much more flexible. | 12:22 |
| mpool | ddaa: yes, would appreciate that | 12:22 |
| ddaa | mpool: it's one of the important things for this week, so you can make progress on that while I'm away. | 12:23 |
| jamesh | what is the URL of the spec? | 12:23 |
| lifeless | speaking of specs | 12:23 |
| lifeless | https://launchpad.canonical.com/PrivateBranches is nearly reviewed | 12:23 |
| ddaa | mpool and ddaa favor the "two attributes" approach. But that is a sensitive topic, so I would like consensus or word from sabdfl before putting out a proper spec. | 12:23 |
| mpool | ddaa: i'm not really qualified to give feedback on the db changes | 12:23 |
| mpool | who will be? | 12:23 |
| ddaa | SteveA: your attention would be welcome about the db change issue, since it's a loaded issue involving sabdfl. | 12:23 |
| mpool | jamesh: https://launchpad.canonical.com/BranchIndirection | 12:23 |
| mpool | who else should review either the db or ui specs? | 12:24 |
| ddaa | lifeless: talk about that end of meeting | 12:24 |
| ddaa | mpool: stub gets to review all db changes | 12:24 |
| ddaa | I'm not sure that mpt has much to say about the UI in that case. | 12:25 |
| mpool | me either | 12:25 |
| mpool | spiv, can you please read it | 12:25 |
| mpool | then let's JFDI | 12:25 |
| ddaa | JFDI? | 12:25 |
| lifeless | JustFuckingDoIt | 12:25 |
| SteveA | ddaa: hi | 12:25 |
| spiv | mpool: ok | 12:25 |
| SteveA | ddaa: what's the question? | 12:26 |
| ddaa | SteveA: backlog, just after the == bzr lp:// == | 12:26 |
| ddaa | discussion about changing the db schema to have two branch attributes in ProductSeries | 12:26 |
| ddaa | Since I do not have my hands free to with that table as I wish, and since sabdfl seems to feel strongly about it (see SourceSourceRefactoring, last year) | 12:27 |
| jamesh | the two attribute solution sounds like the simpler option. | 12:28 |
| ddaa | jamesh: certainly, but it's acking that vcs-import != series, and for some reason that appears to be taboo. | 12:28 |
| ddaa | No sound technical reason AFAICT | 12:29 |
| ddaa | that's why I'm incomfortable about it | 12:29 |
| jamesh | ddaa: really? | 12:29 |
| lifeless | ddaa: you are uncomfortable because you got what you wanted | 12:29 |
| lifeless | ? | 12:29 |
| ddaa | I did not get that yet. | 12:29 |
| ddaa | But if we have a consensus on using two attributes, great. | 12:30 |
| ddaa | I'm happy. | 12:30 |
| ddaa | SteveA: thank you | 12:30 |
| ddaa | == important bugs according to bzr community == | 12:30 |
| ddaa | mpool: when we had that phone call a couple of weeks ago, I suggested you get feedback from the bzr community about launchpad integration issues. | 12:30 |
| ddaa | That would be useful data to have at the beginning of september, can you commit to delivering that? | 12:30 |
| mpool | ddaa: on consideration, i think the problem is that integration is just not very visible yet | 12:31 |
| ddaa | Mh | 12:31 |
| ddaa | Actually, I mean more than just integration of the client with the server. | 12:31 |
| mpool | so "what are the bugs in it" may not get good results | 12:31 |
| ddaa | I also mean things like the UI to the branch registry, bug branches, sftp server, tec. | 12:32 |
| mpool | ddaa: what question are we trying to answer? | 12:32 |
| ddaa | s/tec./etc./ | 12:32 |
| SteveA | network problems | 12:32 |
| SteveA | back | 12:32 |
| ddaa | The question is: "what are the bugs or features that the bzr community as a group appears to desire the most" | 12:32 |
| SteveA | ok | 12:33 |
| SteveA | ddaa: on the issue you asked me about | 12:33 |
| ddaa | As an help to prioritizing tasks. | 12:33 |
| SteveA | ddaa: if we go for 2 table fields now, can it be collapsed into 1 later with a simple database update? | 12:33 |
| ddaa | SteveA: not really | 12:33 |
| ddaa | it's adding degrees of freedom to the system | 12:34 |
| jamesh | ddaa: I'd think it would be pretty easy: "update productseries set user_branch = import_branch where user_branch is NULL" then remove the import_branch | 12:34 |
| ddaa | jamesh: it's not enough | 12:35 |
| ddaa | jamesh: let's talk about that after meeting | 12:35 |
| jamesh | okay | 12:35 |
| ddaa | ACTION: jamesh and ddaa to come agreement about db change for ProductSeries | 12:35 |
| === irvin [n=ipp@ubuntu/member/irvin] has left #launchpad-meeting ["Leaving"] | ||
| mpool | ddaa: i think we should just decide | 12:36 |
| mpool | and then perhaps ask for suggestions | 12:36 |
| ddaa | well, I'd certainly not let user whims be the only factor in deciding | 12:36 |
| mpool | i'll try to give you a list before you leave, and then we can continue | 12:36 |
| mpool | if we start showing that we're shipping features there, people will suggest more | 12:37 |
| ddaa | but since I'm not going to decide on anything before september, asking the community might be a good use of the time until then. | 12:37 |
| mpool | why? | 12:37 |
| ddaa | because I'll be only leave | 12:37 |
| mpool | oh, from this weekend for two weeks? | 12:37 |
| mpool | ok | 12:37 |
| ddaa | and because I have my hands very full for this week w/o dowing planning | 12:37 |
| ddaa | s/dowing/doing/ | 12:37 |
| ddaa | moving on | 12:38 |
| mpool | btw it looks likely that someone new will be starting here in september, also working on lp bzr features | 12:38 |
| mpool | ddaa: ok, in that case i'll work on it but less urgently | 12:38 |
| mpool | and talk to spiv, steve, mark, robertc, etc | 12:38 |
| ddaa | that's not what I consider the "bzr community", but okay | 12:39 |
| ddaa | Let's move on. | 12:39 |
| ddaa | == 1.0 targets == | 12:39 |
| ddaa | I'm a bit unclear on what is everybody's target for Launchpad 1.0 (end of september). | 12:39 |
| ddaa | For me: I think it was bzr transition. But I'm thinking of delaying the Arch support removal until we have the new hire. That would be a good exercice to get him acquainted with a lot of the code. | 12:39 |
| ddaa | Everybody else: What are your Launchpad 1.0 targets? | 12:39 |
| mpool | i know it's not | 12:39 |
| mpool | hm, let's talk about that afterwards | 12:39 |
| spiv | My Launchpad 1.0 target is the smart server on the supermirror. | 12:39 |
| ddaa | ACTION: ddaa mpool talk about gathering planning input | 12:40 |
| ddaa | spiv: sounds like a challenge | 12:40 |
| spiv | Yeah. Achievable, I think. | 12:40 |
| ddaa | mpool: bzr-roundtrip-svn is marked 1.0 too | 12:41 |
| spiv | The integration with the supermirror will be a couple of days effort, I think, not much. The main issue is having a smart server in the first place :) | 12:41 |
| ddaa | what's the status of that, last we talked about it, you were about to have a call with mark about using jelmer's stuff without supporting it explicitly in launchpad IIRC. | 12:41 |
| SteveA | spiv: +1 | 12:42 |
| ddaa | lifeless: from your interest, I also gather that tracking-versions is 1.0, is it? | 12:42 |
| ddaa | it's not marked as such in the spec tracker | 12:43 |
| lifeless | its as soon as it can be done | 12:43 |
| lifeless | I dont know what makes something a 1.0 feature | 12:43 |
| ddaa | AFAIK, sabdfl makes things 1.0 features | 12:44 |
| lifeless | so, then its probably not a 1.0 feature | 12:44 |
| lifeless | but its still as soon as possible ;) | 12:44 |
| ddaa | mpool: about bzr-roundtrip-svn? | 12:44 |
| mpool | ddaa: i had a call and i sent a mail reporting the result | 12:45 |
| mpool | i'm sure you were cc'd | 12:45 |
| ddaa | mh? | 12:45 |
| mpool | did you not see it, or was it lost? | 12:45 |
| ddaa | I do not remember seeing it | 12:45 |
| mpool | i remember writing it | 12:46 |
| ddaa | ACTION: ddaa and mpool to sort out the lost mail issue | 12:46 |
| mpool | maybe there was a mail problem somewhere | 12:46 |
| mpool | no, it's worth announcing here | 12:46 |
| mpool | so the decision was that we will take no action on it | 12:46 |
| ddaa | CANCEL THAT ACTION | 12:46 |
| mpool | it's not a priority for canonical | 12:46 |
| ddaa | cool | 12:47 |
| mpool | jelmer can keep going with his work; we can support it and give advice on e.g. how to make id assignment better | 12:47 |
| mpool | but the main things for us to focus on are | 12:47 |
| mpool | - improving bzr performance | 12:47 |
| mpool | - getting the other import priorities | 12:47 |
| mpool | - exposing more feautres on launchpad | 12:47 |
| mpool | cool? | 12:47 |
| ddaa | Sounds quite sensible a plan. | 12:48 |
| ddaa | If you have not sent it to the ML, please do so. | 12:48 |
| mpool | :( | 12:48 |
| mpool | i hate losing mail | 12:48 |
| ddaa | == Pending sysadmin tasks == | 12:48 |
| ddaa | Nothing I guess. | 12:49 |
| ddaa | Admins are perfect as usual those days. | 12:49 |
| ddaa | == Critical bugs == | 12:49 |
| ddaa | Skipping that | 12:49 |
| ddaa | In short, everything is in progress | 12:49 |
| ddaa | I have partly implemented fix for two of them. | 12:49 |
| ddaa | Plan to get the code up for review this week. | 12:49 |
| ddaa | That will be the bulk of my time. | 12:49 |
| ddaa | == Any other business? == | 12:50 |
| lifeless | yes | 12:51 |
| lifeless | https://launchpad.canonical.com/PrivateBranches#preview | 12:51 |
| ddaa | almost too late | 12:51 |
| lifeless | I've replied to the reviews from spiv and ddaa | 12:51 |
| lifeless | please go through them and either: | 12:51 |
| lifeless | - delete the review question [you are happy] | 12:51 |
| lifeless | - identify what you'd like me to do to make you happy on that point | 12:51 |
| spiv | Ok. | 12:51 |
| ddaa | ACTION: spiv and ddaa to review PrivateBranches again | 12:52 |
| ddaa | will try to do it this week | 12:52 |
| ddaa | lifeless: is that very important? | 12:52 |
| lifeless | its a blocker for using lp with lp | 12:53 |
| lifeless | bit of a lynchpin | 12:53 |
| ddaa | lynchin-r-us dear friend | 12:53 |
| lifeless | so, its important, but long term. Dont panic on it, but dont defer indefinately. | 12:53 |
| ddaa | Okay, but I'd rather get outstanding code finished before leaving. | 12:53 |
| ddaa | At the latest, I'll review quickly when I'm back. | 12:54 |
| mpool | ddaa: ok, mail is sent | 12:54 |
| ddaa | mpool: thank you | 12:54 |
| ddaa | I think that's all sorted out. | 12:54 |
| ddaa | MEETING CLOSED | 12:55 |
| ddaa | Reviewers have a break before the next meeting. | 12:55 |
| ddaa | I'll have a restbreak too. | 12:55 |
| ddaa | mpool: how much longer are you around today? | 12:55 |
| mpool | i can be around for a while | 12:57 |
| ddaa | mpool: I think we have one or two items to discuss post meeting | 12:57 |
| ddaa | Let's have it at 1130 UTC | 12:58 |
| === ddaa runs out | ||
| jamesh | mpool: re. the client side of BranchIndirection, it sounds like it would need the same infrastructure as needed to handle HTTP redirects | 12:58 |
| ddaa | jamesh: yes, it's essentially a different front-end to the same functionality | 12:59 |
| mpool | jamesh: yes, i think so - could you add some details on that? | 12:59 |
| mpool | and also on the server side | 12:59 |
| === ddaa runs out really | ||
| jamesh | mpool: e.g. another use for cross-scheme redirects would be if I set up my web server to redirect with "Location: bzr-smart-server://..." | 01:00 |
| mpool | right | 01:01 |
| mpool | and you could argue that rather than xmlrpc, we should really just do the query over http | 01:01 |
| mpool | and expect a redirection back | 01:01 |
| jamesh | which would be a pretty cool thing to do for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ -- redirect the user to smart server if their user-agent indicates they have a new enough bzr | 01:01 |
| mpool | yep | 01:06 |
| === ddaa [n=ddaa@nor75-18-82-241-238-155.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| === jelmer [n=jelmer@a62-251-123-16.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
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