[12:01] <ddaa> Still missing mpool and Steve
[12:02] <mpool> hi
[12:03] <ddaa> Hello
[12:03] <ddaa> Before the meeting starts
[12:03] <ddaa> I will have a short week
[12:03] <ddaa> since I'm on leave starting thursday
[12:03] <SteveA> I'll not be paying much attention
[12:03] <SteveA> I'm in UI meetings here today
[12:03] <ddaa> until the 28th
[12:04] <ddaa> SteveA: there's one or two points where I think I'll need your attention, but okay
[12:04] <ddaa> MEETING STARTS
[12:04] <ddaa> == Agenda ==
[12:04] <ddaa>  * roll call
[12:04] <ddaa>  * production status
[12:04] <ddaa>  * Smart server
[12:04] <ddaa>  * SFTP advertising
[12:04] <ddaa>  * vcs-import knits
[12:04] <ddaa>  * URTF
[12:04] <ddaa>  * Python import
[12:04] <ddaa>  * bzr lp://
[12:04] <ddaa>  * important bugs according to bzr community
[12:04] <lifeless> hi
[12:04] <ddaa>  * 1.0 targets, what, who when?
[12:04] <ddaa>  * critical bugs
[12:04] <ddaa>  * pending sysadmin tasks
[12:04] <ddaa>  * any other business
[12:04] <ddaa> == Roll call ==
[12:04] <ddaa> ddaa is here
[12:04] <ddaa> So is Steve
[12:04] <ddaa> mpool said hi
[12:04] <ddaa> so did lifeless
[12:04] <spiv> I'm here
[12:04] <jamesh> I'm here
[12:05] <ddaa> Wonderful.
[12:05] <ddaa> == Production status ==
[12:05] <ddaa> Nothing new. https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/53825
[12:05] <ddaa> jamesh: so, will we get oops from script or do we need a different plan to deal with those errors?
[12:05] <ddaa> last week you said you'll have a meeting with salgado about that
[12:06] <ddaa> Mh, apparently not...
[12:06] <ddaa> == Smart server ==
[12:06] <ddaa> mpool, spiv: status?
[12:06] <jamesh> ddaa: I talked with matsubara about it last week.  I don't think we'll have polished infrastructure for it soon, but I could set things up to get simple traceback OOPS reports
[12:07] <jamesh> ddaa: getting SQL statement logs is a fair bit more work due to differences between webapp and zopeless environments
[12:07] <spiv> We paired a couple of days on it last week, and have scheduled another day on Wednesday.
[12:07] <mpool> ddaa: continuing to work with spiv on it; pairing on wednesday this week
[12:08] <ddaa> spiv: mpool: any delivery estimate, for the non-integrated bit at least?
[12:08] <spiv> There are a fair few tests that make assumptions about the transport that need tweaking.
[12:08] <ddaa> jamesh: basically, kiko is your client for that stuff, since he's the one I expect to find the error spam most annnoying first.
[12:09] <spiv> The plan is to get the last ~30 tests to pass, then start implementing actual smart operations on the new transport.
[12:09] <ddaa> spiv: think you'll get it up and running on launchpad for 1.0?
[12:10] <spiv> I think there's probably only a day or so left on getting the tests working, but I'm not sure how quickly it'll progress after that.  I am getting more fluent with the bzrlib code, though.
[12:10] <ddaa> or is that a post 1.0 feature?
[12:10] <spiv> When's launchpad 1.0?
[12:10] <ddaa> end of september
[12:12] <ddaa> spiv: you'll have time to answer that at the end of the meeting
[12:12] <ddaa> moving on
[12:12] <spiv> I think it's possible, but I'm not going to commit to that right now.
[12:12] <ddaa> == SFTP advertising ==
[12:12] <ddaa> jamesh posted a second draft at the end of the week. I intended to review it friday but got -ENOROUNDTUIT.
[12:12] <ddaa> Action: ddaa to review jamesh second draft real soon.
[12:12] <ddaa> spiv: last week you said you'd have a look, did you?
[12:12] <spiv> I did too.  I haven't looked yet, I'll do that immediately after this meeting and reply.
[12:12] <SteveA> spiv: two things for the smartserver: running it on the supermirror so that bzr users at large get good network performance with the SM.
[12:12] <jamesh> I posted the second draft as a followup to the first thread
[12:12] <SteveA> also, running it on devpad for launchpad use
[12:12] <ddaa> Would be nice to get that blog posted at the end of the week.
[12:14] <ddaa> SteveA: if we make the smart server post 1.0, it would certainly be nice to have run on devpad for a while, so it can mature, before putting it on launchpad.
[12:14] <ddaa> == vcs-imports knits ==
[12:14] <ddaa> As far as I can tell, it's done. All vcs-imports branches are know knits. But that consumed all my round tuits at the end the week.
[12:14] <ddaa> lifeless: mpool: I posted two patches to the bzr mailing list, that were needed for that. I would like to have them in rocketfuel shortly after I come back from leave (on the 28th). They are currently a divergence from rocketfuel in the production code.
[12:15] <ddaa> lifeless: apologies for blowing up on you on #bzr saturday morning
[12:16] <ddaa> Is that an action for anybody?
[12:16] <lifeless> blow up at me ?
[12:17] <ddaa> well, blaming you for turning that rollout into a 12 hours marathon
[12:17] <SteveA> ddaa: I need to focus on this UI discussion.  I'll read the email summary after this meeting.  Please ping me directly on this channel if there is something I need to contribute to.
[12:17] <ddaa> SteveA: ack
[12:17] <SteveA> ta
[12:18] <ddaa> Okay, moving on. I'd just like some quick feedback on those patch, although I'll probably won't be able to act on it before leave.
[12:18] <ddaa> == URTF ==
[12:18] <ddaa> lifeless: jamesh: last week there was some talk about unblocking jamesh with urtf, how did that go?
[12:18] <lifeless> URTF ?
[12:18] <ddaa> Upstream Release Tarball Finder, you know...
[12:18] <ddaa> previously known as Dyson
[12:19] <jamesh> I'll look at implementing what was discussed this week
[12:19] <ddaa> jamesh: where can we see the output of that discussion?
[12:19] <jamesh> I was blocked last week due to sprints, rather than on input from other people
[12:20] <ddaa> I'd be interested in knowing what's going on with that thing, since I spend so many hours stuffing the db with data for that.
[12:20] <ddaa> s/spend/spent/
[12:20] <lifeless> its in the bug
[12:20] <jamesh> ddaa: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/53698
[12:20] <ddaa> Thanks
[12:20] <ddaa> == Python import ==
[12:20] <ddaa> Last week I was asked to look into the problem with the Python import, that manifest itself as a DNS failure at random points in the middle of the import.
[12:20] <ddaa> Planned to do so friday. Did not. Bot noticed that other large SVN imports fail in the same way. That's probably our most serious cscvs bug ATM.
[12:20] <ddaa> Action: ddaa will file bug about that failure, and maybe look at it before going to leave.
[12:21] <ddaa> Though it's down the list of priorities, so would not like to promise looking at it soon.
[12:22] <ddaa> == bzr lp:// ==
[12:22] <ddaa> sabdfl made some noises about that recently, which resulted in some activity.
[12:22] <ddaa> mpool wrote a spec about the bzr-launchpad integration aspect, I will review it this week.
[12:22] <ddaa> I put a braindump on the mailing list, but had no feedback. In short it boils down to:
[12:22] <ddaa> * one attribute: Use ProductSeries.branch both for the vcs-imports branch and for the user specified branch. That leads to model constraints, restrictions for the user, and complication.
[12:22] <ddaa> * two attributes: Use different attributes, say import_branch and explicit_trunk_branch. That essentially acknowledges that import != series, even though it's stuffed in the same table, and makes things much more flexible.
[12:22] <mpool> ddaa: yes, would appreciate that
[12:23] <ddaa> mpool: it's one of the important things for this week, so you can make progress on that while I'm away.
[12:23] <jamesh> what is the URL of the spec?
[12:23] <lifeless> speaking of specs
[12:23] <lifeless> https://launchpad.canonical.com/PrivateBranches is nearly reviewed
[12:23] <ddaa> mpool and ddaa favor the "two attributes" approach. But that is a sensitive topic, so I would like consensus or word from sabdfl before putting out a proper spec.
[12:23] <mpool> ddaa: i'm not really qualified to give feedback on the db changes
[12:23] <mpool> who will be?
[12:23] <ddaa> SteveA: your attention would be welcome about the db change issue, since it's a loaded issue involving sabdfl.
[12:23] <mpool> jamesh: https://launchpad.canonical.com/BranchIndirection
[12:24] <mpool> who else should review either the db or ui specs?
[12:24] <ddaa> lifeless: talk about that end of meeting
[12:24] <ddaa> mpool: stub gets to review all db changes
[12:25] <ddaa> I'm not sure that mpt has much to say about the UI in that case.
[12:25] <mpool> me either
[12:25] <mpool> spiv, can you please read it
[12:25] <mpool> then let's JFDI
[12:25] <ddaa> JFDI?
[12:25] <lifeless> JustFuckingDoIt
[12:25] <SteveA> ddaa: hi
[12:25] <spiv> mpool: ok
[12:26] <SteveA> ddaa: what's the question?
[12:26] <ddaa> SteveA: backlog, just after the == bzr lp:// ==
[12:26] <ddaa> discussion about changing the db schema to have two branch attributes in ProductSeries
[12:27] <ddaa> Since I do not have my hands free to with that table as I wish, and since sabdfl seems to feel strongly about it (see SourceSourceRefactoring, last year)
[12:28] <jamesh> the two attribute solution sounds like the simpler option.
[12:28] <ddaa> jamesh: certainly, but it's acking that vcs-import != series, and for some reason that appears to be taboo.
[12:29] <ddaa> No sound technical reason AFAICT
[12:29] <ddaa> that's why I'm incomfortable about it
[12:29] <jamesh> ddaa: really?
[12:29] <lifeless> ddaa: you are uncomfortable because you got what you wanted
[12:29] <lifeless> ?
[12:29] <ddaa> I did not get that yet.
[12:30] <ddaa> But if we have a consensus on using two attributes, great.
[12:30] <ddaa> I'm happy.
[12:30] <ddaa> SteveA: thank you
[12:30] <ddaa> == important bugs according to bzr community ==
[12:30] <ddaa> mpool: when we had that phone call a couple of weeks ago, I suggested you get feedback from the bzr community about launchpad integration issues.
[12:30] <ddaa> That would be useful data to have at the beginning of september, can you commit to delivering that?
[12:31] <mpool> ddaa: on consideration, i think the problem is that integration is just not very visible yet
[12:31] <ddaa> Mh
[12:31] <ddaa> Actually, I mean more than just integration of the client with the server.
[12:31] <mpool> so "what are the bugs in it" may not get good results
[12:32] <ddaa> I also mean things like the UI to the branch registry, bug branches, sftp server, tec.
[12:32] <mpool> ddaa: what question are we trying to answer?
[12:32] <ddaa> s/tec./etc./
[12:32] <SteveA> network problems
[12:32] <SteveA> back
[12:32] <ddaa> The question is: "what are the bugs or features that the bzr community as a group appears to desire the most"
[12:33] <SteveA> ok
[12:33] <SteveA> ddaa: on the issue you asked me about
[12:33] <ddaa> As an help to prioritizing tasks.
[12:33] <SteveA> ddaa: if we go for 2 table fields now, can it be collapsed into 1 later with a simple database update?
[12:33] <ddaa> SteveA: not really
[12:34] <ddaa> it's adding degrees of freedom to the system
[12:34] <jamesh> ddaa: I'd think it would be pretty easy: "update productseries set user_branch = import_branch where user_branch is NULL" then remove the import_branch
[12:35] <ddaa> jamesh: it's not enough
[12:35] <ddaa> jamesh: let's talk about that after meeting
[12:35] <jamesh> okay
[12:35] <ddaa> ACTION: jamesh and ddaa to come agreement about db change for ProductSeries
[12:36] <mpool> ddaa: i think we should just decide
[12:36] <mpool> and then perhaps ask for suggestions
[12:36] <ddaa> well, I'd certainly not let user whims be the only factor in deciding
[12:36] <mpool> i'll try to give you a list before you leave, and then we can continue
[12:37] <mpool> if we start showing that we're shipping features there, people will suggest more
[12:37] <ddaa> but since I'm not going to decide on anything before september, asking the community might be a good use of the time until then.
[12:37] <mpool> why?
[12:37] <ddaa> because I'll be only leave
[12:37] <mpool> oh, from this weekend for two weeks?
[12:37] <mpool> ok
[12:37] <ddaa> and because I have my hands very full for this week w/o dowing planning
[12:37] <ddaa> s/dowing/doing/
[12:38] <ddaa> moving on
[12:38] <mpool> btw it looks likely that someone new will be starting here in september, also working on lp bzr features
[12:38] <mpool> ddaa: ok, in that case i'll work on it but less urgently
[12:38] <mpool> and talk to spiv, steve, mark, robertc, etc
[12:39] <ddaa> that's not what I consider the "bzr community", but okay
[12:39] <ddaa> Let's move on.
[12:39] <ddaa> == 1.0 targets ==
[12:39] <ddaa> I'm a bit unclear on what is everybody's target for Launchpad 1.0 (end of september).
[12:39] <ddaa> For me: I think it was bzr transition. But I'm thinking of delaying the Arch support removal until we have the new hire. That would be a good exercice to get him acquainted with a lot of the code.
[12:39] <ddaa> Everybody else: What are your Launchpad 1.0 targets?
[12:39] <mpool> i know it's not
[12:39] <mpool> hm, let's talk about that afterwards
[12:39] <spiv> My Launchpad 1.0 target is the smart server on the supermirror.
[12:40] <ddaa> ACTION: ddaa mpool talk about gathering planning input
[12:40] <ddaa> spiv: sounds like a challenge
[12:40] <spiv> Yeah.  Achievable, I think.
[12:41] <ddaa> mpool: bzr-roundtrip-svn is marked 1.0 too
[12:41] <spiv> The integration with the supermirror will be a couple of days effort, I think, not much.  The main issue is having a smart server in the first place :)
[12:41] <ddaa> what's the status of that, last we talked about it, you were about to have a call with mark about using jelmer's stuff without supporting it explicitly in launchpad IIRC.
[12:42] <SteveA> spiv: +1
[12:42] <ddaa> lifeless: from your interest, I also gather that tracking-versions is 1.0, is it?
[12:43] <ddaa> it's not marked as such in the spec tracker
[12:43] <lifeless> its as soon as it can be done
[12:43] <lifeless> I dont know what makes something a 1.0 feature
[12:44] <ddaa> AFAIK, sabdfl makes things 1.0 features
[12:44] <lifeless> so, then its probably not a 1.0 feature
[12:44] <lifeless> but its still as soon as possible ;)
[12:44] <ddaa> mpool: about bzr-roundtrip-svn?
[12:45] <mpool> ddaa: i had a call and i sent a mail reporting the result
[12:45] <mpool> i'm sure you were cc'd
[12:45] <ddaa> mh?
[12:45] <mpool> did you not see it, or was it lost?
[12:45] <ddaa> I do not remember seeing it
[12:46] <mpool> i remember writing it
[12:46] <ddaa> ACTION: ddaa and mpool to sort out the lost mail issue
[12:46] <mpool> maybe there was a mail problem somewhere
[12:46] <mpool> no, it's worth announcing here
[12:46] <mpool> so the decision was that we will take no action on it
[12:46] <ddaa> CANCEL THAT ACTION
[12:46] <mpool> it's not a priority for canonical
[12:47] <ddaa> cool
[12:47] <mpool> jelmer can keep going with his work; we can support it and give advice on e.g. how to make id assignment better
[12:47] <mpool> but the main things for us to focus on are
[12:47] <mpool> - improving bzr performance
[12:47] <mpool> - getting the other import priorities
[12:47] <mpool> - exposing more feautres on launchpad
[12:47] <mpool> cool?
[12:48] <ddaa> Sounds quite sensible a plan.
[12:48] <ddaa> If you have not sent it to the ML, please do so.
[12:48] <mpool> :(
[12:48] <mpool> i hate losing mail
[12:48] <ddaa> == Pending sysadmin tasks ==
[12:49] <ddaa> Nothing I guess.
[12:49] <ddaa> Admins are perfect as usual those days.
[12:49] <ddaa> == Critical bugs ==
[12:49] <ddaa> Skipping that
[12:49] <ddaa> In short, everything is in progress
[12:49] <ddaa> I have partly implemented fix for two of them.
[12:49] <ddaa> Plan to get the code up for review this week.
[12:49] <ddaa> That will be the bulk of my time.
[12:50] <ddaa> == Any other business? ==
[12:51] <lifeless> yes
[12:51] <lifeless> https://launchpad.canonical.com/PrivateBranches#preview
[12:51] <ddaa> almost too late
[12:51] <lifeless> I've replied to the reviews from spiv and ddaa
[12:51] <lifeless> please go through them and either: 
[12:51] <lifeless>  - delete the review question [you are happy] 
[12:51] <lifeless>  - identify what you'd like me to do to make you happy on that point
[12:51] <spiv> Ok.
[12:52] <ddaa> ACTION: spiv and ddaa to review PrivateBranches again
[12:52] <ddaa> will try to do it this week
[12:52] <ddaa> lifeless: is that very important?
[12:53] <lifeless> its a blocker for using lp with lp
[12:53] <lifeless> bit of a lynchpin 
[12:53] <ddaa> lynchin-r-us dear friend
[12:53] <lifeless> so, its important, but long term. Dont panic on it, but dont defer indefinately.
[12:53] <ddaa> Okay, but I'd rather get outstanding code finished before leaving.
[12:54] <ddaa> At the latest, I'll review quickly when I'm back.
[12:54] <mpool> ddaa: ok, mail is sent
[12:54] <ddaa> mpool: thank you
[12:54] <ddaa> I think that's all sorted out.
[12:55] <ddaa> MEETING CLOSED
[12:55] <ddaa> Reviewers have a break before the next meeting.
[12:55] <ddaa> I'll have a restbreak too.
[12:55] <ddaa> mpool: how much longer are you around today?
[12:57] <mpool> i can be around for a while
[12:57] <ddaa> mpool: I think we have one or two items to discuss post meeting
[12:58] <ddaa> Let's have it at 1130 UTC
[12:58] <jamesh> mpool: re. the client side of BranchIndirection, it sounds like it would need the same infrastructure as needed to handle HTTP redirects
[12:59] <ddaa> jamesh: yes, it's essentially a different front-end to the same functionality
[12:59] <mpool> jamesh: yes, i think so - could you add some details on that?
[12:59] <mpool> and also on the server side
[01:00] <jamesh> mpool: e.g. another use for cross-scheme redirects would be if I set up my web server to redirect with "Location: bzr-smart-server://..."
[01:01] <mpool> right
[01:01] <mpool> and you could argue that rather than xmlrpc, we should really just do the query over http
[01:01] <mpool> and expect a redirection back
[01:01] <jamesh> which would be a pretty cool thing to do for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ -- redirect the user to smart server if their user-agent indicates they have a new enough bzr
[01:06] <mpool> yep