[12:09] <troy_s> dammit
[02:33] <troy_s> greetings Dennis.
[11:49] <PingunZ> goodmorning all
[01:19] <cbx33> hi all need some info about usplash images
[01:19] <cbx33> ogra mentioned that there is some kind of colour indexing that gives rise to font colours
[01:19] <cbx33> can someone enlightenme on this
[01:19] <cbx33> AliasVegas is doing the artwork for edubuntu and has asked me to find the informaion
[01:28] <troy_s> cbx33, the usplash is changing
[01:28] <cbx33> oh?
[01:28] <cbx33> when will we know?
[01:28] <troy_s> yes check the mailing list archives...
[01:28] <troy_s> you can also check the spec
[01:28] <troy_s> but the information is loose right now
[01:28] <troy_s> you can basically see what is required by checking the spec
[01:28] <cbx33> oh dang
[01:29] <cbx33> ok
[01:29] <troy_s> Hope that helps.
[01:30] <cbx33> partially
[01:34] <cbx33> troy_s, when will we know the techinical constraints
[01:35] <PingunZ> hey, I made a proposal to Frank Schoep aka fschoep : a forum for ubuntu artwork, replacing the wiki, mailing list and launchpad
[01:35] <PingunZ> any comments ?
[01:44] <troy_s> Not likely
[01:44] <troy_s> The forum isn't very useful...
[01:44] <troy_s> if you check the archives, you can see the progress that was made to centralize all of the information in three unified systems.
[01:44] <PingunZ> not the forum, a new one
[01:44] <PingunZ> only for ubuntu-art
[01:44] <troy_s> Possibly in the future, not now.
[01:44] <troy_s> The tools in place are underused.
[01:45] <troy_s> cbx33 -- Frank is keeping his ear to the ground as best as he can.
[01:45] <PingunZ> but now its hard for beginners to join
[01:45] <troy_s> Not really.
[01:45] <troy_s> Check the wiki.
[01:45] <troy_s> All the information is there.
[01:45] <PingunZ> hmm
[01:45] <troy_s> cbx33 -- Until then, develop according to the outline Frank recorded there.
[01:45] <troy_s> cbx33 -- and you will be covered.
[01:45] <PingunZ> troy_s, I'll pm you the text I wrote to Frank
[01:46] <troy_s> I believe Dennis posted the information originally -- he is very knowledgeable.
[01:46] <troy_s> Feel free to post it here in the forum.  Transparency is fine with me.
[01:46] <PingunZ> just so you get the Idea
[01:46] <troy_s> I get the idea.
[01:46] <troy_s> ;)
[01:46] <PingunZ> but it 30lines ;)
[01:46] <PingunZ> I'll pastebin it -_-
[01:46] <troy_s> If you look at how successful we have thus far been at gathering momentum, you can see why we want to keep the options limited.
[01:47] <PingunZ> just take a look at the pastebin ..
[01:47] <PingunZ> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20545
[01:48] <troy_s> www.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art -- as of about three months ago, that membership was extremely low.
[01:48] <troy_s> the information is getting out there, it takes time to establish procedures.
[01:48] <PingunZ> soz for my english btw ;)
[01:49] <troy_s> Your english is fine,
[01:49] <PingunZ> thank you
[01:49] <troy_s> the reasoning behind the threefold approach is quite easy and clear:
[01:50] <PingunZ> hmm whats a threefold approach ?
[01:50] <troy_s> 1) The development team for Ubuntu developed Launchpad, uses it extensively, and we -- being a team wishing to coordinate with them -- should do so accordingly.
[01:50] <troy_s> 2) Launchpad requires a Wiki in place to provide spec details.
[01:50] <troy_s> 3) Busy folks with careers and hundreds of emails to read cannot check a forum.
[01:51] <PingunZ> no but they can check a wiki and launcpah and lots of emails ?
[01:51] <troy_s> Emails you can filter based on content.
[01:51] <troy_s> and the Wiki is required based on how Launchpad works.
[01:51] <PingunZ> the forums will be as structured as possible
[01:51] <PingunZ> no spam ..
[01:51] <troy_s> It is how Ubuntu is developed.
[01:51] <PingunZ> just basic info
[01:52] <troy_s> Simplicity is better in my experience.
[01:52] <PingunZ> but its really hard for beginners like me
[01:52] <troy_s> That's fine.  Take your time.
[01:52] <troy_s> Learn the system.
[01:52] <PingunZ> and IMO forums are more simple then this
[01:52] <troy_s> There is _no_ rush.
[01:52] <PingunZ> I know
[01:52] <troy_s> The whole point of structure is to gather coordinated and uniform input.
[01:52] <PingunZ> but lots of beginners are scared when they just join
[01:53] <PingunZ> so they stop joining
[01:53] <troy_s> Prior to the structure and Paris, there were merely a glut of garbage posted to the mailing list.
[01:53] <troy_s> That's fine.
[01:53] <PingunZ> thats not fine, ubuntu needs better art
[01:53] <PingunZ> ( no offense )
[01:53] <troy_s> Graphic art development / creative development is a craft, you need to work.
[01:53] <troy_s> I agree.
[01:53] <troy_s> Process is what gets one to better art.
[01:53] <troy_s> Learn the system, read the specifications.
[01:54] <troy_s> And 'better' art is very subjective.
[01:54] <PingunZ> true
[01:54] <troy_s> You need to be aware of cultural, societal, and other factors that determine a word like 'better'.
[01:54] <PingunZ> but I think everyone agrees that suse looks better ?
[01:54] <troy_s> I don't think it is that simple.
[01:55] <troy_s> Further, we have development constraints to create aesthetic work within.
[01:55] <PingunZ> whats that ?
[01:55] <PingunZ> aesti.. ?
[01:55] <troy_s> Consider usplash for example -- there will be no adjusting it in the near future for Edgy aside from Scott's changes.
[01:55] <troy_s> We have tried to establish a paper trail -- read the specs at Launchpad
[01:55] <troy_s> and the associated wiki pages.
[01:56] <troy_s> You can hopefully learn much through that documentation.
[01:56] <troy_s> www.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs
[01:56] <troy_s> I must head off to careerland now... good luck PinguinZ.  And keep up your enthusiasm.
[01:56] <PingunZ> thanks
[01:56] <PingunZ> bye
[01:57] <andreasn> PingunZ: suse looks better because Novell has some of the best artists free software on their payroll
[01:57] <troy_s> And they cut corners regarding issues like usplash.
[01:57] <troy_s> Etc.
[01:58] <troy_s> Much to consider ;)
[01:58] <troy_s> That said, Suse has a long way to go as well
[01:59] <PingunZ> andreasn, we have good artists too
[01:59] <PingunZ> maybe not as good
[02:00] <PingunZ> but I'm convinced that the ubuntu art could be a lot better if we had a better structure
[02:00] <troy_s> If suse were the end - all -- it would be more successful than it is.
[02:00] <PingunZ> no cause its rly slow
[02:00] <troy_s> Read the mailing list archives ;)
[02:02] <PingunZ> brb
[02:04] <andreasn> yeah, they do. Stuff like interface consistency is still years behind apples interfaces
[02:04] <andreasn> and stuff like sane use of icons as interface icons and stuff like that
[02:04] <andreasn> err...icons as interface elements I mean
[02:05] <PingunZ> have you guys read the text I wrote ?
[02:05] <PingunZ> ( soz if I'm repeating  :) )
[02:05] <PingunZ> can you tell me the things you dont like about it ? / like about it
[02:06] <PingunZ> Its just an idea .. But I'm really sure it has to become more user-firendly
[02:11] <fschoep> troy_s: ping?
[02:13] <PingunZ> hi fschoep
[02:13] <PingunZ> got the email I sent you ?
[02:13] <fschoep> Hi PingunZ, yes I got the e-mail. Looks good.
[02:13] <PingunZ> thanks
[02:13] <PingunZ> my best english :)
[02:14] <fschoep> Don't worry about it too much, it's good!
[02:14] <fschoep> Thanks for taking the time to write it all down.
[02:14] <PingunZ> but can you edit it a little
[02:14] <PingunZ> ?
[02:15] <fschoep> Sure, I'll edit it to make it fit in well with the spec template. Maybe provide some more information on several issues and that, but I'll use your mail as a basis.
[02:15] <PingunZ> I mean .. I dont really know the structure yet ..
[02:15] <fschoep> No problem, you'll learn everything over time :)
[02:15] <PingunZ> true
[02:15] <PingunZ> btw do you like the idea fschoep
[02:16] <fschoep> Well, it sounds like a good opportunity to get more people involved, so I'm all for it I guess. I haven't really thought about the consequences much, so maybe there are also some good points for *not* doing something like this. But writing out the spec will make me think about it more, so let's wait and see :)
[02:17] <cbx33> Hi fschoep
[02:17] <fschoep> Hey Pete
[04:50] <fschoep_> I'm going to eat, might be back later on.
[04:50] <fschoep_> See you later
[08:54] <cbx33> hi guys what's the maximum image size we design on
[08:54] <cbx33> 1600x1200 ?
[12:05] <PingunZ> bye all