/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/08/15/#edubuntu.txt

mhzbytes12:15
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bddebianHello01:27
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gotamaHelp! How to get the boot messages on ltsp client? (shell 2)04:19
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ajay_RichEd, sup04:21
cafuego_gotama: Edit the pxeclient.cfg/default file and remove 'splash quiet' from the boot params.04:39
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gotamaThanks04:44
gotamaI am having problems with a sound card (cmi8738)04:44
gotamaWhen i boot the client the messages are to fast to be read.04:45
gotamaDo you have any idea?04:46
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sbalneavEvening all05:14
LaserJockhi sbalneav 05:14
sbalneavHey LaserJock!!!05:15
bddebianHello sbalneav06:23
sbalneavHello bddebian!06:23
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sbalneavYawn.  Time for bed.  Night all.07:19
pygiBurgwork, poke07:33
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jsgotangcoRichEd: i got your email07:42
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RichEdhi jsgotangco ... am still googling for stuff ... but not so easy to find (have found quite a lot by book activists saying reading is better !)08:36
RichEdharry potter activisits :) also crusading against tv & playstation 08:37
jsgotangcoRichEd: yeah its pretty hard, we're going to align now what's in the E Media program and what we have in Edubuntu08:37
jsgotangcobut the key is for edubuntu to complement existing curriculum08:37
jsgotangcoor develop a module if needed08:38
RichEdjsgotangco: i've been tasked (yes more) to look at LAMS ... and helen (of the TSF and email) as put me in touch with the australian originator ... you familiar with LAMS08:39
RichEdhas put me <-08:39
jsgotangcoRichEd: yeah I'm familiar with LAMS, although honestly i forgot about it!08:39
jsgotangcojeezz08:39
jsgotangcobut this is more suited for group collaboration08:41
RichEdsemantics comment: "the key is for edubuntu to complement existing curriculum"08:41
jsgotangcoyeah? we can't disrupt the curriculum08:42
jsgotangcoand most of these teachers aren't really computer-savvy for starters08:43
RichEd"the key is for edubuntu to allow /facilitate suitable applictions & content to complement existing curriculum"08:46
RichEdedubuntu will never be in the business of content08:46
RichEdbut must allow sutaible content to be located, accessed, and managed08:46
RichEdis the curriculum defined anywhere ?08:47
RichEddocumented ?08:47
RichEdokay - mail time ! - will send some links to you if i find any to academic improvement through it docs08:47
RichEdand parting note for now, we also need to create a framework for peer-to-peer teacher collaboration ...08:47
RichEdi.e. if one teacher finds content or an application that works well towards curriculum goals, they need to be able to rate it and share it08:47
RichEdpart of the medium term plan08:47
ajayRichEd: sup08:55
ajayRichEd: its DrkLrd here08:55
RichEdhello ajay: got your mail open, just dealing with a high-priority enquiry for the boss.08:55
RichEdi've got a plan for you, which i will send to you by email soon (next hour or two) ... will you be around to chat ?08:56
RichEdjsgotangco: the view shared with mark was that "a biology teacher is best equipped to help another biology teacher"08:57
RichEdTSF has been doing research in how peer collaboration can be effective, and how to initiate it08:57
ajayRichEd: okies08:57
ajayRichEd: i will be here mate08:58
RichEdso we need to make a collaboration space teacher friendly, and then get come champions to get on board08:58
RichEde.g. we've been discussing how mail lists suit techies ... but forums a preferred by lay people08:58
RichEdbut as above, need to get busy now ... just popped my head back here for a sec.08:59
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jsgotangcoRichEd: not at all, we're (edubuntu) is not going to create content09:00
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RichEd'lo will ... head buried in emails ... but hi !09:45
Burgundaviahey RichEd09:55
RichEd'lo Burgundavia 09:55
RichEdwillvdl: meet Burgundavia 09:55
RichEdBurgundavia: meet willvdl 09:55
RichEdHave a quick tuXlabs Case Study chat while I am busy elsewhere :)09:56
jsgotangcocool09:56
BurgundaviaRichEd: ok cool. Too bad so much else has come up (getting ready to go to LWE right now)09:57
RichEdBurgundavia: willvdl  & I will do a lot of the work for you ... managing the process as we have dedicated focus ... so you can just be nudged for input & advice & comments09:59
Burgundaviasounds good09:59
Burgundaviagiven my life might be about to change rather radically, that is good09:59
jsgotangcoBurgundavia: ?10:00
Burgundaviajsgotangco: I am currently looking at all kinds of options in the very near future10:01
jsgotangco"all"10:01
Burgundaviasome might involve significant amounts of time away from the computer and Ubuntu10:02
jsgotangcoi see10:02
Burgundavianothing is set in stone yet10:02
jsgotangcoim about to enter in a very complex chapter in my career so it seems too10:03
Burgundaviacertainly not about to abandon Ubuntu and Linux permanently10:03
RichEdjsgotangco: if the move works out for you ... then Helen is a good person to get to know !10:03
Burgundaviajsgotangco: where are you planning to move to?10:03
jsgotangcoRichEd: its rather complicated, the foundation has a no-computers policy to age 9 below10:04
Burgundaviajsgotangco: I agree with that idea10:04
jsgotangcoso the focus is highschool10:04
RichEdjsgotangco: no problem with that ...10:04
jsgotangcobesides most stuff in kde-edu are complicated for kids10:04
RichEdi let my kids have very selected access ... even though there are 4 - 6 PCs in my house, they are lucky to get 4 hours a month10:04
jsgotangcoBurgundavia: with a very very influential foundation over here by the biggest media company10:05
Burgundaviavery nice10:06
Burgundaviamy parents made me "earn" computer time, by spending time outside, on a 1:1 ratio10:06
Burgundaviasomething I bitched about at the time but will do if I ever have kids10:06
jsgotangcowe're not even aiming 1:1 probably 2:1 or 3:1 worse10:07
jsgotangcobut the program should result in haveing improved student performance in math and sciene10:08
willvdlMy father was only too happy to dive into the things. He needed someone inhouse to explain it to him10:11
willvdlHi folks, busy morning..10:11
jsgotangcowow rodarvus is now in planet!10:15
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cbx33pin g ogra 10:42
ograpon g cbx33 10:50
cbx33I've fixed the bugs in scp10:50
cbx33working on the spec today10:50
cbx33almost finished the kill process part10:50
cbx33I have a branch registered on LP if you want to merge at any time10:51
ogracool 10:51
ogra!10:51
ograi'll look at it during the day :)10:51
cbx33ok np10:51
ajayRichEd: ?10:58
RichEdyes DarkLrd ajay ?10:59
ajaylol10:59
ajayRichEd: u said u wanted to talk11:00
RichEdcan you give me 15 mins ? will send you the email background, and then we can chat.11:00
ajaysure11:00
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ajayhey tuxboy1711:04
tuxboy17hi ajay 11:04
ajay|AFKbbl11:04
ajay|AFKenjoy tuxboy17! talk to people there are really nice guys here mate11:05
cbx33hi tuxboy17 11:06
tuxboy17hi cbx33 11:07
tuxboy17:)11:07
RichEdhi ogra11:17
RichEdcan you clarify for my understanding here: " Only xchat will be in main.  Xchat-gnome is being moved to universe for Kubuntu" & "I've been told that it'll happen starting with Edgy"11:19
RichEdcan I assume that main is the same across Ubuntu / Edubuntu / Kubuntu & same for universe ?11:19
RichEdif not, where can i brush up on mu understanding11:19
BurgundaviaRichEd: yes11:20
RichEdschweet ... Burgundavia :)11:20
Burgundaviamain/u/multi/restricted refer to the repos, which are common across X/Edu/K/Ubuntu11:20
Burgundaviaogra: we moving x-g out and xchat back in?11:20
RichEdBurgundavia: that's a thread i picked up on in #xchat this morning11:21
cbx33Burgundavia: Yes Please11:21
BurgundaviaRichEd: odd, cause x-g was moving into main for dapper and xchat to universe?11:21
Burgundaviacbx33: yes please?11:21
cbx33on the moving of xchat back in11:22
Burgundaviaboth are crap, tbh11:22
RichEdthis thread all started for me when i was using xchat under win and when i moved to ubuntu, i started asking dumb questions about why the interface was suddenly so kak11:22
BurgundaviaGNOME has a troubled history with irc clients11:22
RichEdthen discovered that a "fresh user like me" would be let to beleive that the xchat he searched for and installed was the real deal11:23
RichEdled to believe11:23
RichEdand only when i checked [x]  unsupported applications did the xchat search reveal the xchat option as well as xchat-gnome11:24
RichEdfound myself in the middle of a big debate ... some say xchat-gnome is easier for the rookie to learn ... most say xchat has a superior interface and is more intuitive ... and not much more difficult to come to terms with11:25
Burgundaviaboth have issues11:25
Burgundaviaboth have nice features11:25
RichEdso that is the end user perspectrive (from my experience) and although i did not motivate the bug request that i believe has led to the swop, i'm happy to see it11:26
Burgundaviawell, neither are installed by default11:26
RichEdnope, agreed, but my initial search & install led me down the unexpected (did not want to say wrong) path11:27
RichEdas a matter of interest, is there an equivalent of xchat-gnome under windows ?11:27
Burgundaviamirc?11:27
RichEd(because i am speaking as a windows convert ... and that is a big part of our target audience)11:28
RichEdso we want the old experience to match the new experience11:28
Burgundaviaright11:28
RichEdxchat-gnome does not look or feel like mirc under windows11:28
Burgundaviahave you seen what Userful do with DiscoverStation, to match the windows interface?11:28
BurgundaviaI personally hate it, but it is an idea, if we want to go down that path11:28
RichEdthe lack of permanent channel user window was my biggest b!tch11:29
Burgundaviaindeed11:29
RichEdand in IRC terms, no permanent channel user window is a buit like flying blind ... who's here, who's away, who's ops11:30
Burgundaviathe x-g people have their own ideas about things11:30
RichEdnope ... haven't seen userful ... got a link or ref ?11:30
Burgundavialet me find you one. Our (Userful's) website is a mess11:31
RichEdtx.11:31
BurgundaviaRichEd: http://www.softpedia.com/screenshots/DiscoverStation_3.png11:31
Burgundaviahttp://www3.userful.com/images/devices.gif11:32
Burgundaviawith menu open11:32
RichEdBurgundavia: forgive me if this is a dumb question, but doesn't that look pretty much like Kubuntu (and Kubuntu is imho a very slick'n'sexy look'n'feel) ... what is difference in goal ? (apart from the KDE apps)11:35
BurgundaviaDiscoverStation is for public computers, like tuxlabs or in libraries11:36
Burgundaviait is GNOME, but hacked to look like Windows11:36
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RichEd'lo nexu :)11:37
nexuhi11:37
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RichEdokay Burgundavia point taken ... lay person question : from a dev point of view, how difficult is it to "lay a new menu skin" on top of say Edubuntu (more ...)11:40
RichEdi.e. same apps under the desktop, but different menu layout, i.e. different tree groupings of shortcuts, but pointing to same executables ?11:41
RichEdor is this what userful is ?11:41
RichEdthe reason i ask is that a sidebar conversation with sabdfl at one point went into the possibility of a teacher switching all desktops into GRADE 1 view ... where the apps / content now appeared under a subject tree arrangement11:43
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ograBurgundavia, ??11:44
ograRichEd, hi11:44
RichEdand then when the next class arrive, switch to GRADE 3 ... etc.11:44
RichEdhi ogra ... send a mail to matt re hack fest ... additional inforamtion he was not aware of in a #canoncial chat ... should support your "application" for approval11:45
RichEdinformation <- inforamtion11:45
ograi think he already agreed11:45
ograat leats thats what jammcq told me11:45
ograhe also said he's not sure if he can come himself, i havent heard anything different yet11:45
RichEdokay ... in my log search this morning, you last said you had still to ask ... my mail to matt was around whether he would be there so we could have a 3 way11:46
ogra(because you mentioned to meet him)11:46
ograyeah11:46
ograwe all would love to see him there ;) honestly :)11:46
RichEdwe spoke about that in #canonical, and he was more interested in trying to make a plan after he heard about the expanded attendee list11:46
ograah11:46
RichEdso my nudge may rock him over and in11:47
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RichEdcc'd you on the email ... still only an outside chance he will come, but it is now floating higher in his priority list11:48
=== ogra smiles about "original fedora ltsp" :)
ograi think they dont even have any "official" package for it :)11:49
ograthats why its so important to have them there ... they shall adopt the ubuntu model ;)11:50
RichEdto avoid me embarrasing myself in front of the honourable matt ... what's the 10 second explanation for the difference between red hat & fedora ... w.r.t. LTSP ?11:51
ograand he's right, it will be *very* close to release ... i'll have to do a lot of edubuntu work alongside while we're there11:51
ografedora is a community driven project 11:51
RichEdi've done a wiki on the two ... but want LTSP specific points11:51
ograredhat grabs their work, puts the commercial stuff on top and rebrands it 11:52
RichEdso did fedora community help with LTSP, or RedHat organisation ?11:52
RichEdit was jim who started in no ?11:52
RichEdstarted it, no ?11:52
ogra(well thast a bit harsh explained but essentially what they do)11:52
ograLTSP was never in fedora or redhat11:52
ograif you wanted to install it, you hade to grab premade packages from ltsp.org11:53
ograeric was the guy who merged redhat and ltsp to become k12ltsp11:53
RichEdbut the LTSP that jim started (ltsp.org) originally worked with redhat o/s ?11:53
ogra(with added edu apps and many additional scripts)11:53
ograyes11:53
ograthey did their development on top of redhat11:53
RichEdand redhat is linux, and now LTSP is moving to debian, which is our core11:53
ograand offered rpm packages on ltsp.org11:54
ograbut to my knowledge it was never integrated into redhat/fedora11:54
RichEdrpm ? the last rpm i heard was 33 and 45 and 72 (vinyl days)11:54
ograeric is the key part here, since he pushed for integration, found people who had the same inerest etc to get it ready for redhat11:54
Burgundaviaogra: wondering about xhcat and x-g in main and universe, that is all11:54
BurgundaviaRichEd: red hat equiv to .deb11:55
ogras/redhat/redhat based distros/11:55
ograrpm = redhat package manager11:55
RichEdahhh11:55
Burgundaviaalso used by SUSE and Mandriva, amongst others11:55
ograBurgundavia, but you mentioned it as a decision of kubuntu ...11:56
ogra(xchat)11:56
Burgundaviano, I didn't, riched11:56
Burgundaviait11:56
ograah, yes11:56
RichEdhere: <Hawkwind> RichEd: Heh.  I filed a wishlist bug 2 days ago on Launchpad about xchat being put into main for Kubuntu instead of xchat-gnome.  I've been told that it'll happen starting with Edgy11:56
ograwell, as long as nobody steps up to maintain x-c, i guess we'll have to live with x-g in main 11:56
RichEdfrom #xchat 300 mins ago11:57
RichEd30 mins11:57
ograthats weird11:57
ograi wouldnt see a reason wh kubuntu would pull gnome software to main :)11:57
ogra*why11:57
ograthey have their own IRC proggy ...11:58
ogra(konversation)11:58
ograseb128 maintains it, and afaik he is in favor of xchat-gnome ...11:59
ograbut he might have reconsidered11:59
nexuis there no xchat package maintainer atm ?11:59
nexui though evo is doing it12:00
ograthere is no specific xchat maintainer for ubuntu main atm12:00
nexuhmmm how can i become one12:00
nexuthere are several small issues with the debian/rules of xchat .deb atm12:00
ograbecome a motu (see #ubuntu-motu for it) and work a while in universe ...12:00
nexuyeah i'm in the motu12:01
Burgundavianexu: first you get a chicken12:01
ograafter some time working with motu you can apply for main maintainership 12:01
nexuBurgundavia: lol ? i'll just go to KFC man12:01
Burgundavianexu: that isn't chicken12:01
nexuBurgundavia: i would believe you if i was going to the chinese12:02
nexuogra: ok12:02
BurgundaviaRichEd: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menus12:03
ograi'm not sure this one will make it ...12:04
RichEdBurgundavia: echoes of our conversation :) if not for inclusion now ... good to know topic is open12:05
BurgundaviaRichEd: it has been talked about for a while12:06
RichEdogra: a great enquiry this morning ...12:07
RichEd<paste-start>12:07
RichEdThe indicative number of machines distributed in 2300 public schools and running on Linux by the end of 2008 is 30.000. We are looking forward to at least 3 year contract with attractive conditions for upgrade and technical support, that might include FLOSS center, mirror download sites, etc.12:07
RichEd <paste-end>12:07
RichEdin the running: Suse, Mandriva and Ubuntu12:07
RichEdoff the table: fedora12:07
BurgundaviaI see no advantage to Mandriva over either Suse or Ubuntu. It offers neither the most up to date software, nor the most stable12:09
ograwhere is that ?12:09
nexuRichEd: in which country is taht?12:09
ograSuse is a commercial product ... 12:10
nexumandriva doesn't even offer free version anymore afaik12:10
nexuogra: there is opensuse.12:10
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Burgundaviaopensuse is too crackful, with no clear roadmap12:10
nexuwell, thats why its open :)12:10
RichEdyep ... russian region ... don't want to throw specific client info about in a public channel12:10
nexuits like  a playground for NLD12:10
Burgundaviamuch like Fedora12:11
nexuwell kinda12:11
RichEd1st prize i think for the client is free s/w but paid support12:11
nexufedora has more strict guidelines tho12:11
RichEdwhich puts us up in the top rung12:11
nexuwell, personally i think mandriva is quite overpriced12:11
RichEdthining around propose: ubuntu hosting web, mail, f/w, cache, mirror etc. - commercial support contract with montreal12:12
RichEdthinking 12:12
ogras/ubuntu/canonical12:13
ogra;)12:13
RichEdand edubuntu in schools - need to come up with a new support arrangement with montreal, maybe rope in highvoltage for some classroom level suport ?12:13
ogra++12:13
RichEdi.e. build a model for the new contract type12:13
RichEdwill be working on a mail to bizdev people ... ogra & rodarvus will be in the lop12:14
RichEdnice test case to build a proposal, identified target, identified competitors, large scale, moral support for the software founded by the cosmonaut12:15
=== jsgotangco listens
Burgundaviawell, off to catch my flight12:21
Burgundaviacya all12:21
rodarvusgood morning12:24
jsgotangcorodarvus: hey!12:24
maninghello! new here.12:25
ogramorning rodarvus 12:25
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ograjsgotangco, you have wite access to the website, right ? 12:27
rodarvushey jsgotangco, ogra :)12:28
jsgotangcoogra: i believe so, i dont remember...12:28
jsgotangcoogra: i think some parts yeah12:28
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ograelom just said there is a typo somewhere 12:28
ogra<elmo> ogra: "Many people around the world excercise this right." ==. exercise12:29
jsgotangcoi got 2 emails about typos12:29
maningHello? Is Pysycache http://www.pysycache.org/en/index.html included in the edubuntu dapper distro?12:29
=== jsgotangco checks
ogradoesnt look like anyone has packaged it12:30
ograbut there is a debian sourcepackage on the website, so it should be possible for some fellow mou12:31
ogra*motu12:31
maningit looks cool for very young kids in learning how-to-use mouse much like some of gcompris.12:31
jsgotangcoogra: what page is that? im in the cms now12:31
ograjsgotangco, good question :)12:32
jsgotangcolol12:32
ografront page12:32
maningthis is also cool! http://www.matemania.no/matemania_m/index2.html 'though I can't understand a thing.12:33
jsgotangcofixed12:33
ograthanks !12:33
jsgotangcoim looking for the other typos12:34
jsgotangcoheh! it's all highvoltage's typos!12:36
jsgotangco:D12:36
highvoltagemore typos? :(12:37
jsgotangcoheh its alright12:38
jsgotangcowish those who emailed said directly where it is though12:38
jsgotangcojust sent email fo thanks to those who spotted12:41
jsgotangcomeh12:41
jsgotangcofront page has 328,000+ views12:42
ogranice !12:42
highvoltagewe should have a party when it's 100000012:42
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jsgotangcotop page after homepage are screenshots12:43
jsgotangcothat's a good thing :)12:43
ograyeah12:43
jsgotangcoill do cleanup later12:44
jsgotangcowe'll have to do new screenshots as well12:47
ograas soon as we have seen some new artwork :)12:47
jsgotangcosure12:51
jsgotangcolaterz12:53
ajaycRichEd: u there?12:58
RichEdyep ... did you get my mail ?12:59
ajaycyups thanks mate01:00
RichEddoes it make sense ? it could be a small start, with a high profile success for all of us if we can make progress01:01
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sbalneavogra: ping02:09
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sbalneavogra: pingie 202:16
sbalneavok, gotta get ready for woek, be on later.02:17
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RichEdhello mr schooltool :) nice to see you02:33
RichEdjust sent you an email 10 mins ago02:33
RichEdhighvoltage: either you were ignoring me or you timed out on me ;) i have a window full of talking to myself02:35
highvoltageRichEd: it seems like it's the latter02:35
highvoltageRichEd: can you copy.paste it again in that window?02:36
RichEdwill do ... bit of a ramble, but can you give me 5 mins now to get some things across02:36
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=== ogra is away for 1h or so ... i have a code review for sbalneav ready in case he shows up before ...
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=== RichEd -> 1 hour lunch errands
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cbx33ping ogra 03:09
cbx33finished kill on scp03:09
cbx33with auto refreshing proc list too :p03:09
highvoltagecool :)03:09
cbx33working on vnc next03:10
cbx33I need some bzr advice03:10
cbx33I have a branch03:10
cbx33which I publish via rsync on the net03:10
cbx33I now have another machine and I want to work on the same branch03:10
cbx33so two machines working on the same branch03:10
cbx33with it being published via rsyncing to a web server03:11
cbx33any ideas?03:11
bimbericbx33: you might recall me mentioning "the cacophony of the playground" last week - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSounds03:15
cbx33bimberi, yes03:18
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sbalneavMorning all03:41
sbalneavogra: ping03:41
ograsbalneav, pong03:42
ograpitti did a code review 03:42
ograso we have the first of many iterations until it suits him :)03:43
sbalneavOh, cool.  I liked the way he did the spawn in his pmount, so I "stole" it :)03:43
sbalneavWell, sure.  What's he suggest?03:43
ogramany things :)03:43
ograhe starts off with missing gpl/copyright statement :P03:44
ograthen we shouldnt have the i18n stuff in the headers ... sinc ewe dont/wont use them in such a backend proggy03:44
ograthe usage message needs to use %s instead of %d03:45
ograhe doesnt like the {become,drop}_root() functions at all ... we shall either drop them completely or only use them for the getopt03:45
sbalneavOh, did I get a %d in there? heh, typing too fast.  Didn't check the useage message :)03:46
ograwell, most stuff is trivial ...03:46
ografork() shudl rather be pid_t pid = fork()03:46
sbalneavWell, we NEED to become root to make the directory and do the mount.03:46
ograbetween execl and exit of the mount command there should be a perror03:47
ograno, we are root already, the binary is suid root, isnt it ;)03:47
sbalneavheh, well, if he doesn't like that bit, he should look at pmount/utils.c where I stole it from :)03:47
ograso we *could* drop privileges *if* we fix the {become,drop}_root() functions, but we could leave that out completely as well he said03:48
ograsame fork() comment for the unmount stuff 03:48
ograin main() is a declared but unused int len = 003:49
sbalneavjust becase the binary's got the setuid flag set, doesn't mean you've become root.  It just means you can RAISE your privs.03:49
ograyep03:49
ograbut uid will be 0 03:49
ogra(no sure if we'd need to raise euid 03:49
ogra)03:50
sbalneavand this will be running as the user, correct?  So the userid will be non-root.03:50
sbalneavgimme 2 secs, work ping03:50
ogracase 'u' should have umount = 1 instead of umount++03:50
ograand the "unknown option" string is missing the actual option :)03:51
ografor: if (optind < argc) he asks if it shouldnt be < argc-103:51
ograhe asks for s/PATH_MAX/sizeof(mediamount)/03:52
ogra(everywhere)03:52
ograaccording to him thats more robust 03:52
ograwe should check pwent->pw_name for slashes03:52
ograand we shouldnt chown the dir we create, mount will make it inherit the ownership from the /tmp mount 03:53
ograthast it 03:53
ogranot much for a typical pitti review ;)03:53
ogra(he's a nitpicker, but thats why he is our security guy)03:54
ogra;)03:54
ograoh, and he promised to do the next review in english, so i dont need to translater everything :P03:55
ogra*translate03:55
ograi can write a patch during the day if you want that fixes most of the complaints ...03:56
=== ogra wonders if sbalneav fell over by that sheer amount of complaints for a 100 line code snippet
sbalneavnah, no problem, gimme 10 minutes, I'll fix things up.03:58
ograi know pittis reviews are quite shocking mostly :)03:58
=== ogra remembers having to do five or six iterations of a 30 line hal addon he once wrote, pitti had more and more complaints ...
cbx33ogra the bzr repo is updated and kill functionality added, but beware the working tree that is on the page is not updated04:01
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cbx33ogra, the proclist updates too :p04:04
ogracool04:04
cbx33even when you have selected a process04:04
cbx33the updates keep happening04:04
ograwithout cncelling the selection ? 04:05
cbx33yes04:05
ogra*cancelling04:05
ogranice !04:05
cbx33I knew you were gonna ask that04:05
ogra:)04:05
cbx33I wondered why you didn't have an updating list04:05
cbx33then I tried it and found out why04:05
ograwell, thats usual behavior for gtk lists04:05
cbx33but I got round it04:05
cbx33I hope04:06
cbx33;)04:06
ograsure, you can get around it ... but part from the userlist populating (which is totally broken) it was all WIP04:06
ogra*apart04:06
cbx33heheh04:06
cbx33well take a look when you have a sec04:06
ograwill do04:06
cbx33if you're happy with my work, I'll have a go at completing the spec04:06
cbx33wit ha little help04:06
ograthe spec is complete 04:07
cbx33implementation04:07
ograits pending approval until mdz has some spare time to look over it and approve it04:07
cbx33ah i see04:07
cbx33I made a quick hack on my version so I could test it with me logged in without an ltsp server04:10
cbx33my virtual machine has gone all woogy04:15
cbx33all the network interfaces are broken04:16
cbx33and I don;t know why04:16
cbx33right I'll brb switching machine04:17
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sbalneavogra: ping again04:30
ograsbalneav, pong :)04:35
sbalneavhey hey04:36
sbalneavOK, I've got just about everything done, except the suid stuff.04:37
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sbalneavI'm unclear as to how I should be doing it.  I mean, I need to be able to raise privs, so I'm not sure how he expects that to work.04:37
sbalneavHeh, I wasn't expecting you to submit it so fast, I hadn't given it a once over yet. :)04:38
sbalneavlet me mail you what I've done...04:38
sbalneavWhoops, still don't have a gpl thing in there.04:39
sbalneavmeh, I still need to package.04:39
ogradamned, my net seems to go flaky again04:40
sbalneavdid you get my last 4 lines?04:40
ograyep04:40
sbalneavok04:40
sbalneavjust sent it.04:40
ograjust gets tons of DUPs while pinging my router04:40
ograbut it seems not to break completely04:40
ograpitti wrote:04:41
ograDas bringt nix. Normalerweise willst Du die reale uid lassen und die04:41
ograeffektive auf root setzen. Allerdings muss fuer den mount()-Aufruf04:41
ograsowohl die reale als auch die effektive uid 0 sein.04:41
ograi'll try to translate it literally 04:41
ogra(referring to become_root())04:41
ograthat doesnt help. usually you want to keep the real uid and set the effective one to root. for the mount() call you will need to have both set to 0 though04:42
ograalso for drop_root():04:43
ograDito. BTW, Du weisst, dass drop_root() vielleicht 04:43
ograProgrammierfehler aufdeckt, aber das Programm keinen Deut 'sicherer'04:43
ogramacht, ja?04:43
ograsame as for become_root(), but you know that dror_root() probably exposes programming errors but makes the program not more secure at all ?04:44
ogra*drop_root() indeed04:44
ogradoes that make sense to you ? 04:44
ograwhen i taled directly to him he said we could as well drop both these functions04:45
ogra*talked04:45
sbalneavOK, so if I get what he's saying: only promote the euid for the mkdir, and just the real uid only for the mount call.04:45
ograno, both for the mount call04:46
ograbut we wont need the euid for mkdir04:46
sbalneavDrop the functions?  What, and just inline the calls to setuid?04:46
ograwell, only the mount call04:46
sbalneavWe wont need the euid for mkdir?04:47
ograaccording to him we dont ( i didnt try :) )04:47
sbalneavAh, pitti's answeing me in the channel.  I'll ask directly04:47
cbx33what does it mean when I do a networking restart and it says error, no such device04:55
cbx33it was working fine yesterday morning04:55
cbx33these are two vmware machines04:55
LaserJockcbx33: cool,re scp05:21
cbx33heheh05:22
sbalneavogra: get my "shake shake shake" mail? :)05:24
LaserJocklol05:25
RichEdhello LaserJock :)05:30
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lecaroshi all05:30
RichEdhow's the light shield kilt ?05:30
jsgotangcolight shield kit?05:32
ograHAHAHA05:33
=== ogra wipes some tears from his eyes
sbalneavYou laughing at my lyrics or my code? :)05:34
ogranot your code indeed05:35
ogra:)05:35
LaserJockRichEd: hi05:36
RichEdjs ... i presume a LaserJock doe not wear normal tartan ... i'm guessing he needs something stronger to protect his weaponry ;) 05:36
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LaserJockRichEd: yes, exactly05:36
RichEdLaserJock: just a tickle to let you know that Burgandavia & I were chatting about custom menus earlier ... and your name came up ... along with a link ref: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menus05:38
RichEdit's something i have ben specualating about for a while now, and glad to see it is becoming a reality05:39
RichEdbeen not ben05:39
LaserJockheh, well hopefully it will become a reality05:39
LaserJockit's not as trivial as I thought ;-)05:39
jsgotangcoheh05:40
jsgotangcoits not really as simple as it looks05:40
ograwell05:40
jsgotangcobut KDE makes it very very easy!05:40
=== jsgotangco hides at ogra
ograi think you worked it out quite well already 05:40
ograits just that i wont have the time to implement it ...05:41
ogra(for edgy)05:41
jsgotangcoyeah05:41
cbx33ogra, do you have any info on the vnc stuff for scp?05:41
RichEdno specific actions ... must wanted to let you know i think it is an important offering from a classrom perspective ... but needs to be done in such a way that we can give the framework & format to the teacher / department, for them to configure themselves.05:41
ograbut we'll do one less spec for edgy+1 and keep that one ;)05:41
RichEdwhich is probably your thinking already ... first to admit i am joining in at the end of a thread here05:41
ograyes, it needs a gui tool05:42
ograbut thats the least of the problems05:42
LaserJockwell, I'm going to play around with .menu files and see what we can do05:42
ogradoing the actual merge stuff if a student is in different groups etc is the hard part05:42
RichEdogra: or an easy intuitive text edit ... like an xml tree ?05:42
ogranever !05:43
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=== RichEd steps back in case it gets ugly
ograwe dont want our teachers to see the commandline if possible :)05:43
RichEdwas about to say: lots of free GUI editors to edit XML trees05:43
ogra(indeed thats whishful thinking as long as we dont have things like ltsp-manager in place ..)05:43
RichEd(well played with many in windows)05:43
sbalneavogra: is ltsp-manager targetted for edgy?05:44
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ograbut if its avoidable with a 100 line proggy the time to quickly write it should always be there05:44
ograsbalneav, i initially did, but i dont think i'll make it ...05:44
ogratoo much on my plate05:44
sbalneavCan I help?05:44
LaserJockogra: what tool will teachers use to assign students to groups?05:45
ogramdz ust made a call that we should give a realistic estimate which specs we can finish in time for sept 7th (feature freeze)05:45
ograi'll surely have to drop some05:45
cbx33ogra, is this including scp?05:45
jsgotangcogreat pressure!05:45
ograno05:45
ograscp will be on my list05:45
cbx33because it hasn't been approved?05:45
cbx33no i meant to get done in time05:45
ograas well as swapserver and the ldm enhancements05:45
cbx33like a reset button in ldm :p05:46
ogralocaldev should be done by the end of the week (i hope)05:46
ogracbx33, it doesnt matter if it got approved before ... if its implementted and approved at release time /freeze time, all is fine05:46
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ograscp is high prio05:47
ograi cant drop high prio targets05:47
sbalneavogra: if you mail me what you've got so far, I'm keen to help with whatever you need to get the job done.05:47
RichEdthilly thimple IRC question: if i want to meet with 2 other people on IRC tomorrow, how do we make our own channel / shared message window05:47
ograsbalneav, apt-get install ltsp-manager or apt-get source ltsp-manager05:47
sbalneavjust /join #your-own-channel05:47
LaserJockSept. 7th is Feature Freeze?!?05:47
cbx33ok, well if you give me all you got on vnc i'll try to get that moving, exec too05:47
ograthe actual feature (lts.conf editing isnt implemented yet)05:47
sbalneavDo I need an edgy machine for it?05:48
ograand the gui isnt adjusted to the new features we have 05:48
ograits written on dapper 05:48
RichEdta sbalneav :  thought it might be that easy, but wasn't sure ... didn't want to make an arrangement unless I knew I could host.05:48
ograso it should work on both ... the differences will only be in the package dependencys, shouldnt affect the code05:49
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sbalneavok, don't seem to be able to install it in dapper, not there.  So I'll have to grab it manually from the edgy archives.05:50
LaserJockogra: when is the disto sprint?05:50
ograits in universe in dapper05:50
ograLaserJock, starting monday05:51
sbalneav?05:51
sbalneavhm05:51
LaserJockogra: hmm05:51
ograsbalneav, 05:51
ograerr05:51
LaserJockok, I'll try to do an edubuntu-dynamic-menu sprint at the same time ;-)05:51
ograi *thought* i uploaded it 05:51
ograheh05:51
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ograsbalneav, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/05:52
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sbalneavogra: got the bzr archive.  I'll hack some tonight.  As well, have you got the cdpinger stuff in hand, or do you want me to hack on that tonight as well?06:07
ograi'll do it06:07
ogragot it on my list for this evening06:07
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bddebianHowdy06:09
sbalneavHow is it you request ops again in a channel here in freenode?  I'm on the ops list, and I'm about 2 seconds off of wanting to kickban an annoying prat in #ltsp, but I can't remember how I gain ops and kick someone (since the last time I had to do it was 5 years ago :))06:32
=== mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra] by ChanServ
ograsbalneav, 06:34
ogra /msg chanserv op #ltsp06:35
sbalneavah, then what, /kickban #someguyfrombrazilwhoswearstoomuch?06:36
ographew06:36
sbalneavIf he does it again, I'll give him one warning, then I toast im06:36
=== mode/#edubuntu [-o ogra] by ogra
sbalneavooops.06:36
sbalneavGodlike powers there for a sec?06:36
sbalneav:)06:36
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ograwell, i had to try it :)06:44
ograi have no clue about the commands for kick or ban, but xchat has a context menu for every user in the list ;)06:44
ograbut he seems clamed now06:45
ogra*calmed06:45
bddebian /kick <foo>06:45
ograwell, i usually dont need to :)06:45
bddebianC'mon, kick me harder ;-P06:52
sbalneavoops, what's deop?06:53
sbalneavit's not deop :)06:53
ogra-op ?06:55
ogra(right click yourself in the userlist ;) )06:56
ograthere is an action menu06:56
sbalneavmeh, it'll go away when I log off.06:57
sbalneavLet the green dot be his warning....06:57
sbalneavOF DOOM!06:57
ograhehe06:59
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ogracbx33, 07:27
ograCONGRATS !07:28
ograSubject: Accepted gisomount 1.0.1-0ubuntu1 (source)07:28
ograDate: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:15:18 -0000  (19:15 CEST)07:28
cbx33w000000000000000000000000000000t07:29
cbx33finally07:29
ogra:)07:30
cbx33ogra, gota a spare sec to discuss scp?07:31
ograsure07:32
cbx33I've done kill07:32
cbx33was going to take a look at vnc or execute07:32
cbx33do you have any background info, or shal I start scouring the web07:32
ograthe vnc code should be usable as is if you just remove the comments07:35
cbx33ok07:35
cbx33what else is there to do with vnc?07:36
ograthe thin client side... see the spec07:38
cbx33ok07:38
ograx11vnc needs an optional initscript in the package ...07:38
cbx33ah ok07:38
ograthen someone needs to determine the network load with it running on an ltsp connection07:39
cbx33right07:39
ograand find useable defaults07:39
ogratry the code, i'm not sure in which state it is07:39
cbx33ok07:39
cbx33and what about execute07:40
ograbut it worked at some point ... 07:40
cbx33I was just searching the web07:40
cbx33for some solutions07:40
cbx33but couldn't find anyting useful07:40
ograexecute ? 07:40
cbx33yeh07:40
ograwhat d you mean ? 07:41
ogra*do07:41
cbx33Execution of programs in the users session(s)07:41
cbx33are is then intetnion that it will load on all desktops?07:42
ogradid you read the spec ? 07:43
cbx33yes reading now07:43
ograit has come code snippets and a very detailed description of the implementation07:43
cbx33yes I can see07:43
cbx33ok, I'll go have a look and see what I can get working07:44
cbx33I take it the listener service is not built yet07:44
ogranothing is built yet07:44
ograin that area07:44
cbx33is there a restriction on the language used to writ the listener service?07:45
ograi think there is a hidden execute button in the ui07:45
cbx33yes there is07:45
ograit should be python since the rest of scp is python as well07:45
cbx33ok07:46
cbx33so using python-dbus07:46
ograand dbus/python is a perfect pair07:46
ograyeps07:46
cbx33ok I'll investigate07:46
pygicbx33, sending movie over dbus is always a good idea07:46
ograonly if its raw data ...07:46
pygi:)07:47
ogracbx33, if you want some code example look at the willowng source, its very clean07:48
cbx33ok07:48
=== cbx33 foudn a tutorial on dbus-python bindings too
ograyep, thats very good as well07:48
Amaranthsending movie over dbus == every other dbus user will stab you07:49
pygiAmaranth, nah ^_^07:49
ograi guess before your desktop just dies :)07:49
pygieh ^_^07:50
cbx330_O07:57
cbx33so, the main scp package sets up a dbus connection07:59
cbx33and leaves messages in the "bus"07:59
cbx33then the client machines make connections to that particular bus, and receive the messages, only if they are addressed the them?07:59
cbx33am I getting this?08:00
cbx33they talk about methods in the tutorial08:00
ograno08:19
ograthere are no "machines" involved08:19
ograeverything runs locally on the server08:19
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pawsilverHi I get this message when reloading in Synaptic Package manager "E: Malformed line 22 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list (dist)08:28
pawsilver E: Unable to lock the list directory"   help????08:28
sbalneavpawsilver: Can you paste your line 22 in file /etc/apt/sources.list?08:30
sbalneavMaybe it just needs a touchup.08:30
sbalneavpawsilver: Still there?08:38
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pawsilverhi there08:41
pawsilverI found a source generator on Ubuntu and paste the source in the etc/apt/source.list08:41
pawsilverIts working thanx08:42
sbalneavK, np08:44
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PetarisI seem to have broken my gksu/gksudo some how, any one know if there is a good way to fix it?09:03
Petarisfor example, is there a hidden file/dir in my home dir that I can blow away to reset it or something?09:04
PetarisI did an ls -al in my home but didn't find anything telling09:05
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sbalneavogra: Still awake, oh mighty Teutonic Open Source Warrior?09:38
cbx33sbalneav, TOSW heheh09:43
cbx33ogra, i didn't mean machines in that sense09:43
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ograsbalneav, whats up ?09:47
sbalneavhey!  before you trundle off for the night, can you tarball what you've got for the localdevs stuff, so I can play with what you've been doing?09:47
ograsure, i'll have to fix some small stuff still, after the TB meeting ... dont worry, i'll be around long tonight09:48
sbalneavI sent off the program to you and pitti.  Later tonight I'll properly "gnuify" it with an autoconf etc.  09:49
cbx33ogra, did you say there was dbus in willowng?09:49
cbx33ah i see it09:50
cbx33sorry was looking in the willowng09:50
cbx33it's in willowng-config09:50
Amaranththe server is in willowng, the client is willowng-config09:50
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cbx33Amaranth, where does the server do it's dbus stuff, 10:02
cbx33bear in mind I'm VERY nerw to dbus10:02
cbx33got some pointers?10:02
Amaranthcbx33: that would be dbusinterface.py :)10:03
Amaranth<random>Why does applying for aid for college have to be so complicated?</random>10:03
cbx33heheh10:03
cbx33Amaranth, you're a genius they should be paying you to go10:03
Amaranth:P10:04
AmaranthI just promise not to correct the teacher too much and he gives me at least a C whether I do work or not. ;)10:04
pygiAmaranth, lol10:05
cbx33hehe10:05
cbx33Amaranth, do you have a few seconds?10:05
cbx33could I pm you?10:05
Amarantherr, sure10:05
cbx33pygi, gisomount is in universe :D:D:D10:18
pygicongrats cbx33 10:18
cbx33first app/package10:18
ograsbalneav, which is the final version, the one attached to the dance mail ? or the one before ? 10:25
sbalneavThe dancing email10:26
sbalneav:)10:26
sbalneavIt works for me10:26
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cbx33ogra, just a quickie10:27
cbx33presumably user logins, I'll call them clients, will poll the dbus for new events?10:27
cbx33ogra, I'm goign to start on the dbus code tonight, I understand it now, pretty easy really10:28
ograsbalneav, oh, i just see pitti answered10:28
ogracbx33, the client app should be started by gnome session and listen for the events that come down the users session dbus 10:29
cbx33ah right ok10:29
sbalneavok, looking now.10:29
cbx33I'm going to start by programming the server dbus 10:29
cbx33with the four messages in the spec10:30
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cbx33is there docs anywhere on how to iface with the users session dbus?10:30
ograscp runs as root and sends the events to the *system* bus which then forwards them to the session busses of all selected users10:30
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cbx33yup I get it now10:30
sbalneavAh, I see his point on the umount.  Okeydokee.  I can fix that.10:31
cbx33I just need to know how to interface with the session bus and I should be able to complete that bit10:31
sbalneavogra: for now, continue on with the scripting, and I'll address Martin's (excellent) points.10:31
ogracbx33, well, a lot of apps do it ... so it shouldnt be to hard to find out ... theer is also a link to the dbus spec10:32
cbx33ok thanks10:32
ograhal does it, NM does it10:32
sbalneavit shouldn't change the normal mode operation of the program, we're only addressing failure mode.10:32
ograyep10:32
cbx33ogra do you envisage sending an exec message followed by a notify message to say which machine the exec applies to?10:33
ograi'll adjust the scripts and the cdpinger ... will tar it up in the end ad upload to people.ubuntu.com10:33
cbx33or am i misunderstanding the spec10:33
ograno machines involved ;)10:33
cbx33ogra, ok CLIENTS :p10:33
cbx33you know what I mean :p10:34
ograyou send a user list as first message 10:34
cbx33ok10:34
ogra(the selection from the gui)10:34
cbx33then and exec10:34
ograthen a command 10:34
cbx33or a kill10:34
ograyep10:34
cbx33right10:34
cbx33is the kill message supposed to be a replacement for the os.kill implemantion I did today10:34
ograif $USER is in the list, the client app waits for the next message ...10:34
ograouch10:35
ograthats redundant10:35
cbx33ogra is the user session dbus common to all sessions?10:36
ograit has a socket for each user10:36
cbx33ogra, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, well it works as is10:36
cbx33ogra, I was presuming the server would listen to the USER list and EXEC/KILL and then only post to the relevant users sessions socket?10:36
ograor it creates a socket for the session its started in is the better explanation 10:36
ograno10:37
ograscp just drops the message on the system bus10:37
ograit doesnt connect to any sockets10:37
ograthe the client app must pick it up10:38
cbx33ok10:39
cbx33i think I get it10:39
cbx33I'll start experimenting10:39
cbx33switching machine10:41
cbx33brb10:41
sbalneavPitti's a smart dude.  I don't think another user can unmount someone else's dir because we're adding the userid to the mount, but it's a good point anyway, and we should do the check.  I'll add that stuff tonight.10:44
sbalneavOkay Ogra you handsome devil you, I'm heading home to pick up the Kiddies, and make dinner.  I'll be on later, but I expect you'll be in bed by then.  We'll see you tomorrow.10:44
sbalneavGood luck!10:44
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cbx33ping ogra 10:57
cbx33one last question :p10:57
cbx33remote_object = bus.get_object("org.designfu.SampleService", "/SomeObject")10:58
cbx33iface = dbus.Interface(remote_object, "org.designfu.SampleInterface")10:58
cbx33what's the difference between remote_object and iface?10:58
cbx33because they then use methods from the same class10:58
cbx33hello_reply_list = remote_object.HelloWorld("Hello from example-client.py!", dbus_interface = "org.designfu.SampleInterface")10:58
cbx33hello_reply_tuple = iface.GetTuple()10:58
cbx33hello_reply_dict = iface.GetDict()10:58
cbx33are they just two ways of referenceing the methods in the class?10:59
cbx33woohoo11:21
cbx33I got dbus working :D11:21
ogra:)11:22
ograand we have the coolest localdev implementation evah !11:22
pygiogra, congrats ;)11:23
ograi need to do some small adjustments as scott has to do as well on the suid wrapper and we're done :)11:23
ogranext release i'll add audiocd support *g*11:24
ograthe nice extra is that it will work on all desktops :)11:25
pygiI hope to have libburn release ready in 15 days11:26
pygibut I have a feeling that won't be the case11:26
cbx33ogra, I have working scp server code11:26
ogralibburn ate a lot of developers already11:27
cbx33i just need to do the session interface11:27
ogracbx33, cool !!11:27
cbx33I'm still a little stuck on that one11:27
pygiogra, hopefully not me ^_^11:27
cbx33I'm going to include my examples in me bzr repo for now11:27
cbx33whilst I'm testing and till it gets integrated11:27
ograpygi, i have a mail somewhere from 1999 where the initial developer asked if i would be intrested in helping :)11:28
pygiogra, nice ^_^11:28
pygiWe've made some good progress tho so :)11:29
ograat some oint mxpxpod took over libburn an coaster ... but never got it done either11:29
ogra*point11:29
pygiwhoever that mxpxpod is :) coaster dissapeared ... there are no visible signs of it anymore11:29
ograyep, he dropped it11:29
ograwe had an experimental package in universe in hoary i think11:30
pygiI could use experimental package for libburn-on-cdrecord layer in edgy, but that's probably not doable :)11:30
pygiand stable release won't be ready in time to include it (in 15 days)11:30
cbx33ogra, do we basically pass a message to the session bus like "exec blah" and it runs it?11:31
ograwell, its not urgently necessary that the client interface listens on the session bus, should as well be possible through listening on the system bus ... as long as the message gets through an the ACL is right 11:32
cbx33even the system bus11:33
cbx33I don't know how to interface with it11:33
cbx33I'm just going to download network manager to see how it does it11:33
ograseen that ? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSounds11:35
ograthere you got your overlay to mix into the ubuntu sound ;)11:35
cbx33excellent11:36
cbx33that'll be in my updates11:39
cbx33:D11:39
ogra:D11:40
cbx33ok, ogra11:42
cbx33I've connected to the system bus11:42
cbx33but i still can't find the methods aarrgggghhh11:43
lucasvocbx33: what for do you use dbus for?11:51
Petarislater11:51
cbx33I need to use it to execute a process on a users session11:51
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cbx33argh I gotta get to bed, 11:52
cbx33if you know anything about it lucasvo a link to a tut would be great11:52
cbx33petesavage@ubuntu.com11:52
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