[12:09] <jono> hey
[12:11] <Keybuk> pygi: you sick man ;)
[12:11] <pygi> Keybuk, ;)
[12:13] <LaserJock> does update-manage hand dapper->edgy upgrades well?
[12:13] <LaserJock> *handle
[12:14] <LaserJock> I guess that might be a little more of an #ubuntu+1 question
[12:14] <pygi> LaserJock, it does
[12:14] <mdz> LaserJock: it has a preliminary upgrade mode for edgy which you should test, yes
[12:17] <LaserJock> hmm, no man page for update-manager in Dapper, interesting
[12:18] <LaserJock> I'm guessing update-manager -c -d will do the trick
[12:22] <LaserJock> hmm, well it could use some more informative error messages :-)
[12:24] <seb128> is there some other tool than gdb to get a backtrace? :)
[12:26] <wasabi__> Hmm. What's the usual procedure for forcing a package to rebuild? Just a new upload?
[12:27] <wasabi__> With no changes and a comment.
[12:27] <Keybuk> yup, use VERSIONbuild1
[12:27] <wasabi__> k
[12:27] <wasabi__> ubuntu1build1?
[12:27] <Keybuk> usually mention why you're forcing a rebuild
[12:27] <Keybuk> for that, just do ubuntu2
[12:27] <wasabi__> thought so
[12:27] <wasabi__> thanks. just making sure.
[12:27] <Keybuk> you only need to force a rebuild that way if it built already
[12:28] <Keybuk> ie. soname change of underlying library
[12:28] <mdz> seb128: catchsegv
[12:28] <Keybuk> if the build failed, it doesn't need forcing
[12:28] <wasabi__> Versioned dependencies moved away.
[12:28] <wasabi__> So now it's uninstallable, etc.
[12:33] <seb128> mdz: thank you, that one doesn't crash but gets not bt neither :p
[12:48] <wasabi> Oooh. Automatic crash reporting. I like.
[12:48] <wasabi> Bit rough. Great addition.
[12:48] <wasabi> Should attach a core file automatically. :)
[12:49] <desrt> edgy's bugbuddy you mean?
[12:49] <wasabi> Yeah.
[12:49] <desrt> it uses the new HTTP technology
[12:49] <desrt> very 90s :)
[12:49] <wasabi> Heh.
[12:49] <wasabi> It's just nice to have it.
[12:49] <desrt> (thank god somebody finally implemented that) :)
[12:50] <wasabi> Wonder if the plan is for it to do the reporting itself... including attaching this file.
[12:50] <wasabi> Probably. ;0
[12:50] <desrt> well
[12:50] <desrt> you sort of have to ask the user "what were you just doing?"
[12:51] <desrt> and sending in core files is extremely dangerous and sometimes unrealistic
[12:51] <wasabi> Yeah. Simple questions, sure. But right now it makes you open launch pad, click new bug, submit, add attachment, paste /var/crash/_somefile.crash into the attachments. ;)
[12:51] <wasabi> Yeah.
[12:51] <wasabi> MS basically submits tailored core files.
[12:51] <wasabi> Stack only or some such.
[12:54] <seb128> desrt: I'm not sure you guys speak about the same thing, wasabi is speaking about apport
[12:54] <wasabi> apport the new thing that just popped into edgy?
[12:54] <wasabi> yup
[12:55] <desrt> ya.  i don't know what that is :)
[12:55] <seb128> apport is what you get notifying you that something crashed to edgy
[12:55] <wasabi> replacing bug buddy, or in addition to?
[12:55] <desrt> oh.  that's what i'm talking about
[12:55] <seb128> desrt: sort of bug-buddy but not GNOME specific
[12:55] <desrt> the new bugbuddy thing
[12:55] <seb128> desrt: new bug-buddy is bug-buddy with xml-rpc for me ;)
[12:55] <desrt> does it file to launchpad or bugzilla?
[12:56] <seb128> desrt: bug-buddy? bugzilla! apport? it opens a browser on launchpad atm but save the informations to /var/crash too
[12:56] <wasabi> bah. gnome settings daemon can't update xkb config
[12:57] <seb128> desrt: the plan is to bug launchpad by xmlrpc and get automatic debug backtrace ... but that part is not done yet ;)
[12:57] <wasabi> seb128: how are you planning on getting the bt? -dbg packages, or uploading a core file or something?
[12:58] <seb128> for now it has the "detect crashes, a basic UI and bug dumps to /var/crash"
[12:58] <seb128> wasabi: read the "Introducing automatic crash reporting in Edgy" mail from Martin on the -announce list
[12:59] <seb128> it has all the details about that :)
[12:59] <wasabi> k
[12:59] <seb128> wasabi: basically a compressed coredump sent to a box which will get the bt
[12:59] <wasabi> Ahh. Cool. That's what I was thinking.
[12:59] <wasabi> A launchpad service that added that info to the bug reports just running, etc.
[01:00] <poningru> wasabi: it was also in the dev mailing list
[01:02] <wasabi> neato. fun to see it all coming togheter
[01:02] <gnomefreak> mdz: i confirmed the bug and pitti had told me it was known so i didnt bother filing one but thank you
[01:03] <gnomefreak> -but
[01:05] <mdz> gnomefreak: what bug?
[01:05] <gnomefreak> the ff bug
[01:06] <mdz> which firefox bug?
[01:06] <gnomefreak> the one you filed that apt breaks ff
[01:06] <gnomefreak> bug 56394
[01:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56394 in firefox "Premature use of Breaks causes apt failure" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56394
[01:19] <bluefoxicy> s/*/& we don't want that/
[01:20] <sabdfl> rhythmbox is looking *shiny*
[01:21] <sabdfl> yum
[01:21] <sabdfl> pretty is a feature!
[01:21] <mjg59> Lalala.
[01:22] <sabdfl> Doremi, would be more appropriate, gene-boy
[01:22] <mjg59> desrt: Pf. I've got something with ticky boxes and if you tick them gnome-obex-server starts and stops
[01:23] <mjg59> It does some other useful stuff too
[01:23] <sabdfl> mjg59: did you see my questions about the new usplash magic?
[01:23] <sabdfl> i have a cunning plan
[01:23] <mjg59> sabdfl: Yeah
[01:23] <mjg59> sabdfl: You can draw boxes in different colours
[01:23] <desrt> mjg59; this sounds less impressive than i'd have imagined
[01:23] <mjg59> desrt: Haha
[01:23] <desrt> mjg59; i guess it's a last-minute job now?
[01:23] <mjg59> desrt: Nah
[01:23] <mjg59> It's all good
[01:24] <sabdfl> mjg59: more than 16 colours? can you know the resolution and colour depth?
[01:24] <mjg59> sabdfl: Basically, you can dump a pixmap onto the screen and draw boxes. You can move sections of screen around, too.
[01:25] <mjg59> sabdfl: More than 16 colours is trivial, but not yet implemented. Yes, you can query the resolution.
[01:26] <desrt> vuntz vuntz vuntz
[01:26] <mjg59> desrt: As far as UI goes, you've got bluetooth enable/disable, discoverability, whether or not you're accepting obex file transfers, where they get saved to, that sort of thing
[01:26] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[01:27] <mjg59> desrt: Currently implemented as a hal addon, a simple GTK frontend and a session daemon 
[01:27] <desrt> oh god.  a new session daemon.
[01:28] <desrt> mjg59; do you also have that neat stuff where you can see bluetooth devices and their services in hal?
[01:29] <mjg59> desrt: Yes
[01:29] <desrt> do you have a hal method for hid attach?
[01:29] <mjg59> Yes
[01:29] <desrt> rock.
[01:29] <desrt> that alone is awesome enough
[01:29] <mjg59> And rfcomm binding
[01:29] <mjg59> As I said, it needs UI
[01:29] <mjg59> But that's easy enough
[01:29] <desrt> some sort of client-side API for that might be nice
[01:29] <mjg59> More of a client-side API than HAL?
[01:30] <desrt> like int open_rfcomm_by_hal_uid (const char *);
[01:30] <desrt> which gives an fd
[01:30] <desrt> and handles all the binding and whatnot in the background
[01:30] <mjg59> Hm.
[01:30] <mjg59> Interesting idea.
[01:30] <desrt> that's really what people want
[01:30] <mjg59> Right now it binds, then once the binding is completed adds a device node name to the HAL properties
[01:31] <desrt> so you're already most of the way there
[01:31] <mjg59> Yeah
[01:31] <mjg59> Should probably go in libbtctl
[01:31] <desrt> to quote jeff: DOIT
[01:31] <mjg59> And libbtctl should be ported to hal stuff
[01:31] <mjg59> Without breaking API
[01:31] <desrt> thank god my project doesn't care about API break
[01:31] <mjg59> But I couldn't really be bothered redoing the libbtctl stuff when it wouldn't provide any user-visible difference
[01:33] <jdub> desrt: starsky and hutch
[01:33] <mjg59> So.
[01:33] <mjg59> How should I provide the list of devices?
[01:33] <mjg59> In the pointy clicky UI
[01:34] <jdub> mjg59: A PIE MENU
[01:34] <mjg59> Anyone other than Jeff?
[01:34] <lifeless> mjg59: you should provide it in a clear manner
[01:34] <desrt> jdub; thx.
[01:34] <mjg59> lifeless: And it should also be functional
[01:35] <lifeless> mjg59: you should provide it in a clear and functional manner
[01:35] <lifeless> ^better ?
[01:35] <mjg59> To be honest, I'm tempted to just provide one icon per device and a clicky "use" button
[01:35] <mjg59> Since the number of bluetooth devices which have more than one useful function is small
[01:36] <mjg59> And we probably wouldn't support them anyway
[01:36] <desrt> like every cellphone ever?
[01:36] <mjg59> desrt: Other than "Make this appear for DUN", what have you got?
[01:36] <desrt> address book sync, modem, voice, ...
[01:36] <mjg59> Address book sync should be application specific
[01:36] <desrt> it's still an sdp-reported thingy
[01:37] <mjg59> And on some devices, it's done over the serial connection anyway
[01:37] <mjg59> Screaming nightmare
[01:38] <mjg59> I have no idea what my phone supports
[01:38] <TheMuso> Believe it or not, there are actually BlueTooth braille displays.
[01:38] <LaserJock> nifty
[01:40] <jdub> TheMuso: hardcore
[01:41] <TheMuso> jdub: Makes sense.
[01:41] <jdub> TheMuso: guess it means dodging the whole "find the socket" thing, hey?
[01:41] <TheMuso> jdub: Yeah, and having to have the display close to the computer.
[01:41] <shackan> mjg59, for printers ?
[01:41] <TheMuso> Or not having to, in the case of bluetooth.
[01:42] <mjg59> Ah, printers are one case
[01:42] <mjg59> Another appears to be automatically downloading pictures when nearby
[01:43] <sabdfl> desrt: are you seeing someone for those inanimate object issues?
[01:43] <desrt> sabdfl; my apple certified repair technician
[01:43] <shackan> mjg59, patched gnome bluetooth or did from scratch?
[01:44] <sabdfl> jdub! how's life D-U?
[01:44] <mjg59> shackan: No patches to gnome bluetooth yet
[01:44] <shackan> ack
[01:44] <mjg59> Mostly because that would involve Python
[01:44] <desrt> sabdfl; unfortunately i need my laptop for the time being so i have to put up with the issues until i feel like saying goodbye to it for a few weeks
[01:44] <mjg59> And Python scares me
[01:44] <shackan> mjg59, wasn't g-b written in c ?
[01:45] <mjg59> It's a mixture
[01:45] <slomo> mdz: libiec61883 is not in debian yet because it was blocked by libraw1394... a newer version was needed but the old maintainer orphaned it and nobody took it until a month ago
[01:46] <shackan> scary..
[01:46] <mdz> slomo: we already have the newer version in edgy?
[01:46] <slomo> mdz: both libiec61883 and new libraw1394 should get into debian soon
[01:46] <slomo> mdz: yes, i updated it shortly after edgy opened
[01:46] <mdz> slomo: ok
[01:46] <bddebian> slomo: Define soon ;-)
[01:47] <mjg59> If I've uploaded something to universe and it's hit NEW, do I actually need to do anything?
[01:47] <slomo> bddebian: "soon" :) it blocks gst-plugins-good in debian and packages seem to be ready already, only waiting for a sponsor
[01:48] <mjg59> I've spent long enough with the flies that I'm forgetting this stuff
[01:48] <bddebian> slomo: Ah, cool, then I can play with mythtv :-)
[01:48] <slomo> bddebian: we will have it sooner ;)
[01:48] <LaserJock> mjg59: last I saw NEW had a large backlog
[01:48] <bddebian> Aye :-(
[01:48] <mjg59> Fair enough
[01:49] <mjg59> I'll hack in usplash integration at some stage
[01:49] <mjg59> Bling-tastic hibernate
[01:51] <LaserJock> I think there's packages a month old in NEW
[01:51] <LaserJock> so it could take a while
 rhythmbox is looking *shiny*
[01:54] <sabdfl> who processes NEW for universe?
[01:54] <LaserJock> same as Main
[01:54] <bddebian> sabdfl: Same folks as for main
[01:54] <LaserJock> ubuntu-archive I imagine
[01:54] <LaserJock> mostly Kamion?
[01:54] <bddebian> and Keybuk
[01:55] <bddebian> But iirc Keybuk said something about not being as involved in the licensing stuff?
[01:55] <slomo> mdz: i've already written a MIR for it btw... shall i still disable the b-d for now or let it go on dep-wait and simply hope that the MIR will be approved soon? :)
[01:55] <bluefoxicy> I don't see shininess... however I do "wtf python console" (rhythmbox AND gedit have python console plug-ins), which is leading me to "are we feature-bloating yet?"
[01:56] <Keybuk> bddebian: hmm, no?
[01:56] <Keybuk> I'm just as involved
[01:56] <bddebian> Oh, sorry
[01:56] <Keybuk> sabdfl: what's stuck?
[01:57] <slomo> Keybuk: when you process gnome-sharp2 from NEW please move it to main... it doesn't need a MIR as it's only code we have in main already. it was splitted off the gtk-sharp2 source package
[01:57] <mdz> slomo: best to wait to upload with the build-dep until the report is approved, in case there are isuses
[01:58] <mdz> issues
[01:58] <mdz> once it's approved, fire away
[01:58] <Keybuk> mdz: would "archive-fest" be a good use of the sprint, or not?
[01:59] <Keybuk> ie. cleaning out source NEW, cruft, NBS, anastacia, etc.
[01:59] <slomo> mdz: ok :)
[02:00] <mjg59> sabdfl: If you want hibernate to have usplash bling, then NEW time would be a worthwhile investment
[02:00] <mdz> slomo: libiec61883 accepted
[02:00] <slomo> mdz: thanks :)
[02:00] <mdz> Keybuk: if it'd be more efficiently done as a group, yes
[02:00] <mdz> if it's individual round tuits, probably not
[02:01] <Keybuk> it's round tuits of the right shape
[02:05] <bddebian> w00t, thx mdz
[02:05] <Keybuk> mjg59: what did you upload?
[02:06] <mjg59> Keybuk: uswsusp
[02:06] <Keybuk> was this the original upstream tarball?
[02:06] <mjg59> No
[02:06] <mjg59> It's somewhat hacked
[02:07] <Keybuk> hmm
[02:07] <Keybuk> shouldn't have CVS/* in it then
[02:07] <Seveas> mjg59, would getting more than 16 color support mean merly poking at pngtobogl or is the pallette size currently really limited to 16 colors in libbogl itself?
[02:08] <Keybuk> debian/copyright has problems (claims GPL v2 or above, source claims v2 only; missing copyright attributions)
[02:08] <mjg59> Keybuk: Oh, tch.
[02:08] <mjg59> Seveas: pngtobogl and a little work on libbogl
[02:09] <Keybuk> mjg59: nothing blocking, but could you fix those in the next upload
[02:09] <Seveas> thanks!
[02:09] <Keybuk> accepted
[02:09] <mjg59> Keybuk: Sure
[02:09] <mjg59> Seveas: Ideally, drop the RLE stuff from pngtobogl entirely
[02:10] <mjg59> Since we gzip it, it's entirely pointless
[02:10] <mjg59> And it's just pain
[02:10] <Seveas> so just a big array of palette indexes...
[02:10] <Keybuk> slomo: accepted
[02:11] <Seveas> (is svga still a palette or can it simply use rgblike values?)
[02:12] <Keybuk> bddebian: around?
[02:12] <bddebian> Yo
[02:13] <Keybuk> bddebian: squashfs ... your upload seems to have made the package suddenly build lots of squashfs-modules-* packages
[02:13] <bddebian> What'd I do now?
[02:13] <mjg59> Seveas: Right now it's a 16 colour palette
[02:13] <mjg59> Seveas: That's trivially changed. Basically, it just needs the mode numbers changing
[02:14] <Seveas> mjg59, ok, thanks -- bedtime now but I'll poke at it tomorrow
[02:14] <mjg59> Seveas: No problem
[02:16] <bddebian> Keybuk: There are a bunch of module binary packages in debian/control
[02:18] <lifeless> Keybuk: I uploaded a package yesterday, it seems to have gone awol
[02:18] <lifeless> Keybuk: any chance you can have a poke for me ?
[02:19] <lifeless> oh, nm, I was evidently smoking crack
[02:19] <Keybuk> bddebian: right, but we ship those in our kernel packages
[02:19] <Keybuk> it could be a side-effect of merging from Debian
[02:20] <bddebian> Shit, I knew something would end up being incorrect
[02:21] <lifeless> infinity: whats should I file probably-kernel- bugs/wishlists on ?
[02:21] <Keybuk> they're all empty too :D
[02:22] <Keybuk> heh, I wouldn't worry
[02:22] <Keybuk> this package is a mess
[02:23] <Keybuk> (from Debian)
[02:33] <mdz> lifeless: depends on which kernel you're running
[02:34] <mdz> lifeless: for dapper, linux-source-2.6.15 (though expect to be asked to test on a newer kernel for hardware-specific issues)
[02:40] <mjg59> So, firefox
[02:40] <mjg59> When did it stop accepting about:jwz ?
[02:40] <desrt> xrandr really is an odd thing
[02:43] <desrt> this is freakin' awesome for coding
[02:43] <Burgwork> whip|lwe, ping
[02:51] <lifeless> mdz: i'm running dapper
[02:51] <lifeless> thanks
[02:51] <lifeless> the issues are not driver related - its oprofile
[02:54] <mdz> mjg59: maybe around the time that the (netscape.com) URL it redirected to went away
[02:54] <desrt> does anyone know of a way to do a split in vim and tie the two buffers together so that the one is always immediately below the other in the same file?
[02:55] <mdz> mjg59: so do i understand correctly that I can just go ahead and have powernowd try ondemand first, and if that succeeds, quit and don't run the daemon?
[03:04] <infinity> sabdfl: Pong.
[03:05] <mdz> he's left for the night
[03:05] <infinity> lifeless: Kernel wishlists for spiffy new features should generally be filed against the devel release (ie" linux-source-2.6.17), unless you really think it's something we can stuff into a stable update safely.
[03:06] <lifeless> infinity: well, one is a feature that we apparently have, but doesn't seem to work. The other would not affect the kernel - its just pulling out the debug data into a separate package for freaks like me
[03:06] <lifeless> -> ubuntu-kernel if you like
[03:09] <mdz> Keybuk: how is the init stuff looking?
[03:09] <mjg59> mdz: Yes
[03:10] <mdz> mjg59: we're increasingly overloading the powernowd init script. yahoo
[03:13] <mdz> why does lists.ubuntu.com have no google juice at all?
[03:14] <tseng> google juice puts alot of weight on hyperlinks
[03:15] <tseng> but you would think one off ubuntu,com would be enough to get started..
[03:15] <imbrandon> Results 1 - 10 of about 82 linking to lists.ubuntu.com.  <-- low number of incoming links probably
[03:16] <mdz> searching for Ubuntu maliing list content turns up gmane, mail-archive, and loads of other stuff rather than lists.ubuntu.com
[03:16] <imbrandon> mdz: if someone took the time to make a google site map that would help TREMENDUSLY with googles rankins and links
[03:18] <imbrandon> mdz: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=34654
[03:19] <imbrandon> it would tell google to crawl it at an interval we set and what urls to crawl like the archives
[03:19] <imbrandon> kinda an advanced robots.txt
[03:39] <jdub> oh, hrm. fglrx still doesn't work.
[03:40] <jdub> mjg59: free 3d is not doable on a Radeon Xpress 200M (RC410) ?
[03:43] <infinity> jdub: It will today, if I have anything to say about it.
[03:44] <jdub> sweet
[03:44] <jdub> in the mean time, i will dapperise a spare partition ;)
[04:19] <poningru> can I annoy someone regarding which package to file a bug under?
[04:41] <Keybuk> mdz: pretty good, should be in the archive before the sprint
[04:41] <Keybuk> am mostly testing atm
[04:42] <mdz> Keybuk: what does the upgrade process look like?
[04:42] <Keybuk> pretty minimal at the moment, it just replaces the key parts of sysvinit and runs /etc/init.d/rc N
[04:42] <Keybuk> so most things are unaffected
[04:45] <desrt> who's responsible for the single-instance-app framework?
[04:45] <desrt> i think i might want to use it in applets
[04:51] <desrt> zul; ARGH.  hold on.
[04:51] <desrt> freenode is preventing me from /msg'ing you
[04:51] <zul> eh?
[04:51] <zul> maybe i have been blacklisted :)
[04:51] <desrt> no.  it's just lilostupid
[04:51] <desrt> it's working now
[04:55] <infinity> iwj: Argh.  Having firefox Depends on firefox-themes-ubuntu, but Breaks the only versoin available in the archive is a bit problematic.
[04:59] <zul> night
[05:01] <DShepherd> night
[05:02] <excitatory> so, i just tried to install the php4-mysql package.. dpkg tried to execute some kind of config file or something (judging by the dpkg output) out of /tmp/php4-mysql.config.157021  -- which doesn't make sense to me since i mount /tmp with noexec, as i'm sure most of you do.
[05:03] <excitatory> so like, is this an issue i would talk to the package maintainer about, file a bug, or shout at you guys in here about?
[05:05] <LaserJock> excitatory: well, you could look at /var/lib/dpkg/info/ for the postinst script and see what it's doing
[05:05] <LaserJock> excitatory: but really #ubuntu (for dapper), #ubuntu+1 (for edgy), and #ubuntu-bugs are the more appropriate places :-)
[05:06] <excitatory> LaserJock: ok, sorry.  ..and thank you for your help.
[05:07] <LaserJock> no problem
[05:22] <mdz> Keybuk: is bootchart expected to be working in edgy?
[05:22] <mdz> Keybuk: I get no /dev/.bootchart, 'bootchart bottom' hanging around and no love
[05:23] <rodarvus> mdz, I've seen your email on removing Breaks: from packages until implementation is completed. xorg-server has Breaks: support for about two weeks now, and I haven't heard anything from users upgrading yet. Shall I remove it?
[05:24] <mdz> rodarvus: did you use it in place of a Conflicts or in addition to a Conflicts?
[05:24] <mdz> rodarvus: you should be able to tell from the email whether it will break in your circumstances
[05:25] <mdz> the problem is that apt may tell dpkg to install a package which would cause Breaks to be dissatisfied
[05:25] <rodarvus> xorg-server does not conflicts with the packages it breaks (only the replacement packages do)
[05:25] <rodarvus> xserver-xorg-video-* conflicts with xserver-xorg-driver-*
[05:26] <rodarvus> mdz, but yes, I think it might break apt upgrade
[05:26] <mdz> then it should probably be reverted for now
[05:26] <rodarvus> doing it now, thanks!
[05:26] <rodarvus> just wanted to get your official ack on that
[05:26] <Keybuk> mdz: I don't know of a reason it shouldn't ... it was certainly working a few days ago
[05:26] <Hobbsee> mdz: w.r.t to the meeting, i would expect/hope to work with jono as well.
[05:28] <Keybuk> mdz: just worked ok for me
[05:29] <mdz> Keybuk: will try a more verbose boot
[05:29] <mdz> I get a "chdir: No such file or directory" from an init-bottom script
[05:31] <mdz> no output from the bootchart script that I can see
[05:31] <Keybuk> sounds like your update-initramfs is broken/incomplete
[05:31] <mdz> I ran it by hand and watched it; it should surely be complete
[05:31] <Keybuk> try update-initramfs -u, etc.
[05:31] <Keybuk> hmm, and the bootchart script was run in the initramfs?
[05:31] <mdz> yes, there were processes running from it
[05:32] <mdz> which weren't killed because /dev/.bootchart didn't exist
[05:32] <Keybuk> that's odd
[05:32] <Keybuk> /dev/.bootchart is made by that script
[05:32] <mdz> indeed
[05:33] <mdz> nothing should have mounted over /dev later, right?
[05:33] <Keybuk> nope
[05:33] <ajmitch> mdz: assign or subscribe ubuntu-release for UVF exception? cdbs needs some fixes
[05:33] <mdz> ajmitch: subscribe, per DeveloperResources
[05:34] <ajmitch> then the wiki needs changed
[05:37] <mdz> hmm, worked on the second try with an identical initramfs
[05:37] <mdz> spooky
[05:40] <mike_zhang> who can show me a example of the database used by wanna-build?
[05:44] <Keybuk> mike_zhang: wrong channel, try a Debian channel  (Ubuntu doesn't use wanna-build)
[05:45] <mike_zhang> but I want to setup a buildd daemon on dapper
[05:45] <mike_zhang> any suggestion?
[07:37] <pitti> Good morning
[07:40] <desrt> pitti; hello.
[07:40] <pitti> hey desrt
[07:43] <rodarvus> pitti, good morning
[07:43] <rodarvus> . o O ( about time I should go to bed )
[07:44] <pitti> heh, sleep well, guys!
[07:44] <desrt> pitti waking up is a good indicator for those in eastern standard time to go to bed :)
[07:44] <rodarvus> pitti, I won't give up so quickly ;)
[07:44] <rodarvus> I'm not no EST (UTC-3 here), so even worse
[07:44] <rodarvus> s/no/on/
[09:09] <pitti> moin mvo
[09:09] <pitti> mvo: I have an updated apt&friends system now; anything you want me to do for you?
[09:09] <mvo> hello pitti
[09:10] <mvo> pitti: could you plesae run (if you have 0.6.45ubuntu4): apt-get install --install-recommends --fix-policy ?
[09:10] <mvo> and see what it suggests
[09:10] <mvo> ?
[09:11] <pitti> whoa
[09:12] <mvo> a big list I guess :) ?
[09:12] <pitti> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20644
[09:12] <pitti> mvo: however, the removed packages are a bit worrysome
[09:12] <mvo> yeah
[09:13] <mvo> those are pretty bad decisions from the resolver
[09:13] <pitti> mvo: dist-upgrade only wants to do that, BTW:
[09:13] <pitti> Die folgenden Pakete sind zurckgehalten worden:
[09:13] <pitti>   hal-device-manager hpijs libgcj7-jar
[09:13] <pitti> 0 aktualisiert, 0 neu installiert, 0 zu entfernen und 3 nicht aktualisiert.
[09:13] <mvo> this is what we would end up if we enable install-recommends as default
[09:13] <mvo> the recommends lists of some packages are pretty odd
[09:13] <mvo> e.g. nautilus recommends fam
[09:13] <pitti> mvo: IMHO, before we do that by default, we need to clean up recommends
[09:14] <mvo> -o Debug::pkgDepCache::AutoInstall=true will give details what package requested what package
[09:14] <pitti> do you want that?
[09:14] <mvo> pitti: I totally agree, I think we should talk in wiesbaden about it
[09:14] <pitti> (output)
[09:14] <mvo> not now, thanks
[09:14] <Burgundavia> mvo: the tahi thing preventing ubuntu-desktop from installing. Known?
[09:15] <mvo> Burgundavia: no, I will have a look
[09:15] <Burgundavia> mvo: ttf-thai-t1wg
[09:16] <mvo> pitti: thanks for the output, I will write a mail to ubuntu-devel explaining about the new feature and that we will most likely have to discuss this again
[09:18] <Fujitsu> Is there a reason for Edgy's hal-device-manager to be displaying all PCI devices as `Unknown' now?
[09:24] <mvo> Burgundavia: u-d seems to upgrade here, can I get put the output of "apt-get install ubuntu-desktop -o Debug::pkgDepCache::AutoInstall=true -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true" to a pastebin please?
[09:24] <Burgundavia> can do
[09:26] <Burgundavia> mvo: pastebin.ca/132309
[09:27] <mvo> Burgundavia: thanks
[09:27] <Burgundavia> cheers
[09:27] <Burgundavia> mvo: fyi: only main and restricted enabled
[09:28] <Burgundavia> mvo: looks like it might be a gettext issue and doko might have just uploaded a fix
[09:28] <mvo> yeah, it looks like that is the root of the problem
[09:28] <Burgundavia> right
[09:31] <kagou> hi
[09:43] <pitti> hi kagou 
[09:43] <kagou> hey pitti
[10:41] <kagou> who do i ask for ubiquity proposition ?
[10:42] <Burgundavia> kagou: what is your idea?
[10:42] <Burgundavia> kagou: and btw, proposition is usually used to english to ask someone to marry you. Idea is used more commonly
[10:43] <StevenK> Maybe kagou does want to marry ubiquity.
[10:43] <imbrandon> in that case as the father err keybuck 
[10:43] <imbrandon> heh
[10:43] <Burgundavia> StevenK: he could, but it might be a very cold marriage
[10:43] <kagou> Burgundavia, searching bugs report on ubiquity crash on edgy i found 95 results. so i propose that when ubiquity crash, it show us the name of the process where it crash. (partitioning/formating/installing/configuring keyboard) ...
[10:43] <Burgundavia> right, interesting idea
[10:44] <Burgundavia> Kamion is the person to talk to, but he is currently on vacation
[10:44] <kagou> i must precise that 95 results with "ubiquity crash" as name is not very efficient :p
[10:45] <imbrandon> kagou: although i'm sure he would entertain a patch too when he gets back to look over along with the idea ;)
[10:45] <kagou> i'm asking that also because as debsquad team member, it may help us a lot :)
[10:46] <kagou> thanks men, i will wait for Kamion
[11:03] <mjg59> jdub: Correct
[11:03] <mjg59> jdub: (re: Radeon Xpress 200)
[11:07] <Burgundavia> mjg59: one of these days I am going to update the fglrx page on the help wiki. Is there a good list somewhere of stuff that needs fglrx and stuff that can use r300? (and is that enabled by default for dapper or edgy?)
[11:10] <sabdfl> mdz: is there an ethereal security review anywhere handy?
[11:26] <Burgundavia> doko_: are we installing the gcjwebplugin by default?
[11:27] <doko_> not yet
[11:27] <Burgundavia> does it still have the security issue of not being sandboxed?
[11:32] <doko_> the AccessController's are there, may need another update backport from the trunk/classpath-0.92
[11:32] <Burgundavia> right, just wondering
[11:32] <Burgundavia> given Fedora was trumpeting their crap, figured I would find out, for marketing reasons
[11:46] <iwj> infinity: Err, I meant to remove the Depends.
[11:46] <thom> mvo: with the DDTP enabled apt (ie, yesterday's) I'm seeing "dynamic mmap ran out of room" when i wasn't before, so I'm guessing the default Cache Limit needs to be bumped now
[11:46] <iwj> infinity: Yes, I've just checked and I removed the D@epends.
[11:53] <mvo> thom: thanks! could you please /msg me your sources.list ? just to get a idea how big it is
[11:53] <thom> mvo: no problem
[11:54] <slomo> mvo: a friend of mine has the same problem
[11:54] <slomo> mvo: setting APT::Cache-Limit "141943904"; in apt.conf "fixes" it for him
[12:00] <doko> mdz: "generic" ping
[12:00] <seb128> doko: do you use gaim? :)
[12:00] <doko> seb128: no, not really
[12:01] <seb128> doko: do you have some account configured for it? I'm just curious to know if it crashes gdb for you too
[12:01] <doko> seb128: I'm still running dapper
[12:01] <seb128> hum, k
[12:02] <ogra> hmm, no pitti ...
[12:02] <seb128> who would be interested to track a gdb crasher with me? :)
[12:02] <doko> yeah, I should upgrade before the spring ...
[12:03] <ogra> doko, upgrade before the tulips bloom ;)
[12:03] <seb128> doko: you have no edgy box at all? What are you doing since june? :p
[12:03] <mvo> slomo: thanks
[12:05] <doko> seb128: awaiting the pango-upload-to unstable-before-seb-vacation and see how OOo breaks :p
[12:05] <antoine> seb128,  tu vois grace a moi tu bosses :p
[12:06] <infinity> iwj: I think something about the Breaks/Depends handling is causing it to not upgrade.
[12:06] <infinity> iwj: I can't remove firefox-themes-ubuntu because the old firefox depends on it, and I can't install the new firefox because it breaks firefox-themes-ubuntu.
[12:07] <seb128> doko: don't touch pango :p
[12:07] <seb128> infinity: http://launchpad.net/bugs/56394 
[12:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56394 in firefox "Premature use of Breaks causes apt failure" [High,Confirmed]  
[12:08] <infinity> iwj: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/argh.txt
[12:08] <infinity> seb128: Thanks.
[12:08] <seb128> np
[12:09] <pitti> hello again
[12:09] <seb128> hey pitti
[12:09] <gnomefreak> infinity: let me know if it works with no issues please
[12:09] <ogra> hey pitti 
[12:09] <slomo> hi pitti :)
[12:10] <infinity> gnomefreak: "dpkg --force-depends -P firefox-themes-ubuntu" followed by "apt-get -f install" followed by "apt-get dist-upgrade" appears to do the trick.
[12:10] <gnomefreak> ok ill try it ty
[12:10] <ogra> pitti, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltspmount.c
[12:11] <ogra> pitti, i'm not sure the execvl is ok ... but there we have a start from sbalneav
[12:12] <geser> I could get past this firefox breakage with sudo dpkg --auto-deconfigure -i /var/cache/apt/archives/firefox_1.99+2.0b1+dfsg-1ubuntu2_amd64.deb
[12:13] <gnomefreak> geser: no
[12:14] <gnomefreak> geser: i tried everything to work around it except --force-depends and that seems to have worked
[12:18] <pitti> hi ogra, moin slomo
[12:18] <pitti> slomo: you'll get your MIR review today, promised
[12:18] <pitti> ogra: I'll take a look at it
[12:19] <slomo> pitti: thanks :)
[12:19] <pitti> ogra: what for?
[12:19] <pitti>       fuse | 2.5.3-2.1ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Sources
[12:20] <pitti> ogra: binary promotions for main sources are no problem, I always approve full sources
[12:20] <ogra> pitti, the fuse-utils binary package is in universe
[12:20] <ogra> oh, ok
[12:21] <ogra> and someone deleted my entries for ltspfs from the queue :/
[12:22] <pitti> ogra: how do you want feedback? inline quote with comments?
[12:22] <pitti> per mail?
[12:22] <pitti> ogra: or interactively via IRC?
[12:23] <ogra> pitti, as its convenient for you :)
[12:23] <pitti> I don't mind
[12:23] <pitti> I'll mail you then
[12:24] <ogra> great :)
[12:34] <iwj> infinity: How annoying.  I think we need to fix apt to pass -B to dpkg.
[12:35] <iwj> infinity: If you dpkg -iB firefox.deb it should work.
[12:36] <mvo> iwj: just for every invocation of dpkg on "install"?
[12:36] <iwj> mvo: Yes.
[12:36] <iwj> Also, when it's done, it should dpkg --configure -a.  (It has that stupid bug where it tries to configure only the needed things, and can't cope, anyway.)
[12:36] <iwj> But the former will be sufficient for the moment.
[12:37] <mvo> iwj: if that -b is all there is I can do it now, I will have to merge any patch to my bzr repository anyway
[12:38] <iwj> -B, short for --auto-deconfigure.
[12:38] <thom> mvo: i want to talk to you about the https patches for apt at some point
[12:39] <iwj> mvo: If it's trivial for you to do it now then sure.  But I need to do some other things to apt anyway.
[12:39] <mvo> thom: I have branch for this, it seems to be working for some people (also little testing so far)
[12:39] <thom> mvo: nod. just a shame about the license and the fact it uses stunnel, which seems a bit mad
[12:40] <mvo> iwj: its trivial for me, I would be interessted in what you plan to do
[12:40] <mvo> thom: yes, that is why it is not merged :)
[12:41] <mvo> thom: do you plan to work on it ? that would be awsome !
[12:41] <iwj> mvo: Make apt want to upgrade things when Breaks is relevant.
[12:41] <thom> mvo: work really needs it, so i may well
[12:41] <mvo> thom: I was also considering to check a https based backend based on libcurl
[12:42] <iwj> Although if the firefox/ff-themes-ubuntu thing is an example that may not be quite right ...
[12:42] <thom> mvo: libcurl, or just gnutls with the existing http backend
[12:44] <mvo> iwj: I added --auto-deconfiure to "--unpack" now. I assume that is correct? or is it also needed with --configure?
[12:46] <iwj> No, not needed with --configure.  Thanks.
[12:48] <Riddell> ogra: do you have a bzr archive for hwdb-client?
[12:48] <ogra> yep
[12:48] <ogra> on people
[12:49] <iwj> pitti: Can I ask you some questions about mozilla-firefox-locale-all, which the ff2 broke ?
[12:49] <pitti> ogra: mailed you the review result
[12:49] <ogra> pitti, thanks :)
[12:49] <ogra> Riddell, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/hwdb-client/
[12:49] <pitti> iwj: if it is 'will you update the langpacks?', then 'yes, ASAP' :)
[12:50] <pitti> iwj: sure, just go ahead
[12:51] <ogra> pitti, hmm, english would have been easier to forward to sbalneav :) but i'll translate 
[12:51] <pitti> ogra: oh, didn't think of that; sorry
[12:51] <pitti> ogra: just do the first round of fixes, and in round 2 I'll write English
[12:52] <iwj> pitti: Oh, if you're doing it then thank you very much ...
[12:52] <iwj> I was just looking at it and I though `I'm bound to break it even worse if I mess with it'.
[12:52] <Riddell> ogra: for the kde frontend I'll probably split the package into hwdb-client-common, hwdb-client-kde and hwdb-client-gnome
[12:52] <Riddell> ogra: if that's ok
[12:52] <pitti> iwj: it put it on my list on Friday, just the usual EBUSY
[12:53] <ogra> Riddell, sure
[12:54] <iwj> pitti: Right, OK.  Malone #56386.
[12:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56386 in mozilla-firefox-locale-all "Needs update for Firefox 2.0" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56386
[12:55] <iwj> (FYI)
[12:55] <iwj> Thanks a lot ...
[12:55] <mvo> iwj: ok, done (in bzr now)
[12:56] <iwj> mvo: Thanks.
[12:57] <iwj> mvo: I don't see apt in BzrMaintainedPackages - does someone need to think about doing an upload ?
[12:57] <mvo> ogra: what do you think about a additional "hwdb-client-gtk" ? this would make xubuntu happy because IIRC/AFAIK they can't ship it because of the gnome-canvas dependency (or can they)?
[12:58] <iwj> Also, where is your bzr ?  IWBN to be looking at the latest source.
[12:58] <ogra> i thought that was split out now
[12:58] <ogra> mvo, a hwdb client without canvas would mean a rewrite (of the frontend at least)
[12:58] <ogra> we talked about that ...
[12:59] <mvo> iwj: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/apt/
[12:59] <mvo> iwj: apt--ubuntu is my branch
[01:01] <mvo> iwj: I really need to put the apt package branch onto the main mirror :/ 
[01:02] <ogra> pitti, do you mean we should drop the {become,drop}_root() functions completely from ltspmount ?
[01:02] <ogra> (thats at least how i understand the comment)
[01:02] <pitti> ogra: it does not make too much sense IMHO
[01:03] <pitti> ogra: you can keep them, of course, if you fix the real/effective bug
[01:03] <pitti> ogra: so that at least the getopt() call runs with euid != 0
[01:03] <ogra> ok
[01:03] <iwj> mvo: NP.  Do I want to be using your branch or something else ?
[01:04] <mvo> iwj: yeah, you probably want to use my branch (the apt--ubuntu) one
[01:04] <iwj> Right.
[01:05] <mvo> iwj: we could also branch if this is a bigger thing
[01:05] <mvo> iwj: and create a "apt--implement-breaks" branch
[01:06] <mvo> iwj: and then merge it back, that has the advantage that mering this feature into debians apt is easy 
[01:06] <iwj> I'll read the source first and then decide.
[01:06] <mvo> s/is/will be/
[01:06] <iwj> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/apt/ doesn't contain an apt--ubuntu subdirectory.
[01:07] <mvo> iwj: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/apt/ubuntu/
[01:07] <mvo> iwj: sorry
[01:08] <iwj> NP.
[01:09] <iwj> ian@anarres:/work/Dpkg-breaks-5/apt-bzr $ bzr branch http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/apt/ubuntu/ 
[01:09] <iwj> bzr: ERROR: '_Branch' object has no attribute '_branch_format'
[01:09] <iwj> ??   It's been a while since I tried to use bzr.  Perhaps I'm doing it all wrong ...
[01:10] <mvo> iwj: does "bzr get" works on the same branch? 
[01:10] <iwj> No, same message.
[01:10] <iwj> But I RTFM'd and `get' isn't in the FM any more ...
[01:10] <iwj> (If it ever was.)
[01:12] <iwj> My debug log says:
[01:12] <iwj> [ 3059]  Tue 12:04:42.776 ERROR: Not a branch: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/apt/
[01:12] <iwj> Oh, no, that was from before.
[01:13] <mvo> iwj: let me try to re-push my data
[01:26] <iwj> How odd, I have some extremely old version of bzr which apt wasn't updating.
[01:28] <iwj> mvo: Well, it's working now.  Sorry to bother you.
[01:28] <mvo> iwj: no problem
[01:48] <pitti> Fujitsu: thanks for spotting the hal problem, I fixed it this morning
[01:54] <Fujitsu> Thanks pitti :)
[01:55] <Fujitsu> What was the problem?
[01:55] <pitti> Fujitsu: wrong path to pci.ids
[01:55] <pitti> Fujitsu: in previous releases it was in /var/lib/misc, now it is in /usr/share/misc
[01:56] <Fujitsu> OK.
[01:56] <Fujitsu> I suspected it had failed to locate the ID list.
[01:56] <Fujitsu> How long ago is `this morning'?
[01:56] <Fujitsu> That's 12 hours ago for me :P
[01:56] <pitti> Fujitsu: hum, 4 hours or so
[01:56] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[01:56] <Hobbsee> hi pitti 
[01:57] <Fujitsu> That's the problem with long-distance communication >_<
[01:57] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: true.  it would be much better if the world was flat.
[01:57] <Hobbsee> remind me to change that, when i've taken over the world. that we all use one timezone.
[01:57] <pitti> Hobbsee: that was my idea!
[01:57] <ogra> oh, it isnt ? 
[01:58] <Hobbsee> pitti: i know, i was going to give you credit for it in a second :)
[01:58] <Fujitsu> That was /my/ idea, pitti/Hobbsee/everybody.
[01:58] <Fujitsu> :P
[02:00] <Hobbsee> hah
[02:00] <Hobbsee> no, it was pitti's idea.
[02:00] <Hobbsee> i'll let pitti be one of my sidekicks when i take over the world.
[02:00] <Hobbsee> he can fix bits of it
[02:01] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:03] <pitti> Hobbsee: oh, will I get my own dog kennel in your palace?
[02:05] <Hobbsee> pitti: sure :)  you can have a bed in the spare bedroom, i fyou want
[02:10] <Fujitsu> It works much better now... Thanks pitti.
[02:11] <pitti> cool
[02:30] <HiddenWolf> pitti: ping
[02:30] <pitti> hi HiddenWolf 
[02:31] <HiddenWolf> pitti: sorry to bug you, but on my dapper box hal just died, I was wondering how to diagnose it
[02:31] <HiddenWolf> failed to initialise on reboot, in fact
[02:32] <pitti> HiddenWolf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingRemovableDevices, second half of the page describes the debugging procedure
[02:32] <HiddenWolf> pitti: that 404's
[02:33] <HiddenWolf> ah
[02:33] <HiddenWolf> nm
[02:33] <pitti> hm, WFM
[02:33] <HiddenWolf> pitti: the comma did it. :)
[02:33] <pitti> xchat does not select it :)
[02:33] <HiddenWolf> xchat-gnome does
[02:37] <HiddenWolf> Right, now it starts ok. :/
[02:38] <infinity> irssi+gnome-termianl doesn't select the comma either.  Embrace the console. :P
[02:38] <Hobbsee> konversatoin does :(
[02:39] <Hobbsee> or maybe just whine at the maintainer about it
[02:40] <pitti> Hobbsee: isn't that what a bug report is all about? :)
[02:40] <Hobbsee> pitti: true that.
[02:40] <Hobbsee> pitti: actually, i do want to pick your brains in a bit.
[02:40] <Hobbsee> once i've read the mailnig list
[02:41] <pitti> just give me some time to finish upgrading the firefox locales, then my brain is all your's
[02:42] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:43] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: while laughing maniacally?
[02:44] <Hobbsee> Treenaks: no, probably not...
[02:44] <Hobbsee> Treenaks: not in an evil mood tonight
[03:03] <lemsx1> well, it seems it's true and XFS is broken in .17 kernels
[03:04] <thom> lemsx1: current edgy seems fine with XFS, what are you seeing?
[03:05] <lemsx1> thom: i open a bug about it yesterday with all the logs
[03:05] <lemsx1> thom: but Otavio Salvador (Debian Developer) confirmed to me that XFS is indeed broken in .17 kernels
[03:05] <lemsx1> thom: at least i didn't loose any data. i just couldn't mount the disk
[03:06] <thom> 56384?
[03:07] <lemsx1> thom: yes
[03:07] <thom> well, as i said. xfs is working just peachily for me
[03:07] <thom> and see ben's comments on the bug
[03:07] <lemsx1> i'm attaching the extra info
[03:07] <tseng> thom: you should whinge a whole bunch about it on planet debian
[03:07] <tseng> thom: latest meme
[03:08] <thom> tseng: seems that way yeah, i might whinge about reiser just to restore balance in the force
[03:09] <lemsx1> thom: i'm guessing dmesg when using the offending kernel...
[03:09] <thom> lemsx1: yes
[03:11] <pitti> iwj: new ffox locales uploaded
[03:12] <pitti> Hobbsee: ok, do you have any question for me?
[03:12] <Hobbsee> pitti: sorry, havent read that far thru the mailing list yet
[03:13] <pitti> ok
[03:13] <Hobbsee> pitti: basically, it's "how does kde/kubuntu-desktop integrate in with the automatic bug reporting stuff" but the answer to that may well be further down the list
[03:14] <tseng> is there any easy way to turn off the segfault catcher?
[03:14] <tseng> i was working on development
[03:14] <tseng> trying to fix my own crasher, and it was really slowing me down
[03:14] <tseng> really churns the box cold for some second every time
[03:22] <pitti> Hobbsee: I discussed that with Riddell 
[03:22] <pitti> tseng: right now, only sudo /etc/init.d/apport stop, sorry
[03:22] <pitti> tseng: with our current approach, the kernel already dumped core before we can decide 'we do not want a report for this'
[03:23] <pitti> Hobbsee: so far he deemed the KDE crash reporter appropriate for edgy
[03:23] <Hobbsee> pitti: cool.  i never found out what the result was, and was just curious.
[03:23] <Hobbsee> ah yes.  i heard that
[03:23] <pitti> Hobbsee: as long as kubuntu-desktop depends on apport, you will still get non-KDE crash reports
[03:23] <pitti> Hobbsee: you'll just not have the apport-gtk frontend
[03:23] <pitti> but that's not that important
[03:24] <Hobbsee> pitti: true that, i was more thinking of integrating kcrash, and all the extra information that it seems this new thing will collect, like versions etc, straight into LP
[03:25] <pitti> that still needs some brainwork
[03:26] <Hobbsee> pitti: indeed.  as in, brain work on how/if it should happen, or how to do it?
[03:26] <pitti> both
[03:26] <pitti> Hobbsee: the Gnome equivalent of kcrash is bug-buddy, and we'll disable it by default
[03:26] <Hobbsee> pitti: right.
[03:42] <iwj> pitti: locales> Thanks!
[03:47] <Hobbsee> pitti: feel like rebuilding debtags and adept?  that should fix the breakage, i'm told.
[03:58] <Hobbsee> pitti: libapt-front first, i'm told
[03:58] <mvo_> Hobbsee: I will take care of it
[03:58] <mvo_> Hobbsee: I already patched/uploaded libapt-front
[03:58] <Hobbsee> mvo_: oh cool.  that's what i thought
[04:00] <Hobbsee> mvo_: apt doenst seem to have irrecovably broke this time.  thanks for that :)
[04:02] <mvo_> pitti: can you please have a look at: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3901310/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.libapt-front_0.3.9ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz (could the failure be related to the new ddeb generation)?
[04:02] <mvo_> Hobbsee: heh :)
[04:02] <mvo_> Hobbsee: apparently libapt-front is FTBFS :/
[04:02] <Hobbsee> mvo_: i dont mind breakage that much.  but i *do* mind apt breaking, as tha'ts kinda hard to recover from.
[04:03] <wasabi> xkb problems. Looks like g-settings-d can't set the config.
[04:03] <wasabi> Not too familiar with this process.
[04:03] <wasabi> Probably it's running xmodmap or equivilent in the background?
[04:07] <mvo_> infinity: any clue about http://librarian.launchpad.net/3901310/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.libapt-front_0.3.9ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz?
[04:08] <Kaleo|dodo> rodarvus: there is something wrong with the lookup path of binaries linked dynamically with libGL I think
[04:10] <Kaleo|dodo> rodarvus: bug 54858 still
[04:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54858 in xserver-xorg-video-i810 "3d acceleration broken in Edgy Knot 1" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/54858
[04:10] <infinity> mvo_: Well, other than "It's pitti's fault", I'm not immediately familiar with the failure.
[04:10] <infinity> pitti: See mvo's pasted log.
[04:10] <mvo_> infinity: that is good enough for me, thanks
[04:23] <rodarvus> Kaleo|dodo, how strange.
[04:24] <rodarvus> Kaleo|dodo, is dri working for you, without workarounds?
[04:25] <Kaleo> no
[04:25] <Kaleo> only with the symlink
[04:25] <rodarvus> it started working on the only test machine I have here, after the latest mesa upload)
[04:25] <Kaleo> interesting
[04:25] <Kaleo> I should wipeout the system and try with a fresh install
[04:31] <Kaleo> rodarvus: eek, it's going to take hours
[04:31] <Kaleo> rodarvus: any ideas to make sure that we have a bug ?
[04:33] <Kaleo> rodarvus: concerning AIGLX and compiz, I have made some progress
[04:33] <rodarvus> we have a bug. the real subject here is if its a bug in the source code (this would be an important bug), or in the upgrade scripts, which are failing to detect your machine (and possibly others) are missing a link
[04:33] <sbalneav> pitti: pingie, two secs?
[04:33] <rodarvus> Kaleo, dri and aiglx basically work here
[04:34] <rodarvus> (on a freshly installed machine)
[04:34] <rodarvus> freshly == about one week ago
[04:35] <Kaleo> I see
[04:36] <Kaleo> rodarvus: what procedure should I follow ?
[04:36] <rodarvus> unfortunately, I need spending 100% of my time on other subject, right now (preparation to the sprint, next week, and edubuntu administrativia)
[04:37] <rodarvus> so, any help figuring out whats the issue exactly is muchly appreciated
[04:37] <rodarvus> Kaleo, try purging libgl1-mesa-dri from your system
[04:37] <rodarvus> (+ any links you added manually)
[04:37] <rodarvus> then reinstall it
[04:38] <rodarvus> it would also be helpful to test the following situations, if at all possible:
[04:38] <rodarvus> 1. fresh edgy installation
[04:38] <rodarvus> 2. upgrade from dapper
[04:40] <rodarvus> lunch time, bbl
[04:40] <Hobbsee> rodarvus: enjoy :)
[04:41] <Kaleo> rodarvus: have a good meal
[04:41] <Kaleo> rodarvus: purging libgl1-mesa-dri and reinstalling it does not provide /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/i915_dri.so that glxgears is looking for
[04:42] <rodarvus> ahn
[04:42] <rodarvus> gotcha
[04:42] <rodarvus> Kaleo, try running xmoto instead of glxgears
[04:42] <rodarvus> I bet mesa-utils just needs to be recompiled
[04:43] <Kaleo> rodarvus: seems ok
[04:44] <rodarvus> :)
[04:44] <Kaleo> oh
[04:44] <Kaleo> actually no
[04:44] <Kaleo> libGL error: dlopen /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/i915_dri.so failed 
[04:47] <pitti> sbalneav: pong
[04:47] <QuestionMarkCoun> Kamion: I have a problem with a iso-image created with cdimage. I have modified seeds and added some own packages. Now, when I try to install from this CD, installastion fails with "No installable kernel found... "
[04:47] <pitti> mvo_: yes, that's my bug
[04:47] <pitti> mvo_: I'll reproduce it locally and fix it
[04:47] <pitti> QuestionMarkCoun: FYI, Kamion is on vac this week
[04:48] <QuestionMarkCoun> oh ups...
[04:48] <QuestionMarkCoun> anybody else here, who knows cdimage?
[04:48] <sbalneav> pitti: Hey!  Great, sorry that code got sent to you so early!  It wasn't ready yet.  Thanks for the tips, I've fixed about all of them, but i'm a little unclear on what you'd like to see for the setuid stuff
[04:48] <pitti> sbalneav: I don't want to prescribe you anything
[04:49] <ogra> pitti, but you need to approve it :P
[04:49] <pitti> sbalneav: the become/drop_root() functions, when done properly, are nice for catching errors
[04:49] <sbalneav> Dude, I bow to your superior skills.  I'll do whatever you suggest! :)
[04:49] <pitti> sbalneav: so, by all means, keep them
[04:49] <QuestionMarkCoun> but I think my problem is not directly cdimage. I assume it has something to do ith gpg
[04:49] <pitti> sbalneav: I just wanted to make sure that these are not security enhancements
[04:50] <pitti> sbalneav: dance on the Las Vegas skyscraper tower at midnight, naked, with pom poms!
[04:50] <thom> haha
[04:50] <ogra> but record it please so we can put it on planet.ubuntu.com ;)
[04:50] <pitti> hey thom!
[04:51] <thom> hey mate :-)
[04:51] <pitti> ogra: I actually thought it to become the edgy CD example video
[04:51] <sbalneav> Errr, ok.   :)
[04:51] <ogra> haha
[04:51] <ogra> and Hobbsees
[04:51] <pitti> sbalneav: I'll write the next audit in English, sorry
[04:51] <Hobbsee> hah, yeah
[04:52] <QuestionMarkCoun> where can I find information, how to setup my own gpg keyring for signing my cd?
[04:52] <sbalneav> pitti: So, you're thinking I only need full root for the mount command, and just euid = 0 for the mkdir?  Am I getting that correct?
[04:53] <pitti> infinity: oh, btw, before you lart me for the coreutils FTBFS, I know about it, and it'll be fixed soon
[04:53] <sbalneav> I'll be blunt: I've never actually written an suid program before.  All of my code's either been totally userspace, or totally root :)
[04:53] <pitti> sbalneav: don't worry, we'll get it solid enough soon
[04:54] <pitti> sbalneav: shall I send you a translated version of the audit, or will ogra do the first round fix?
[04:54] <sbalneav> ok, let touch up one or two more things, and I'll send you v0.2
[04:54] <sbalneav> I'm already fixing round one.
[04:54] <ogra> pitti, he's to fast for me 
[04:54] <sbalneav> Just tryn' to help my buddy ogra :)
[04:55] <sbalneav> pitti@ubunut.com?
[04:55] <sbalneav> ubuntu?
[04:55] <pitti> sbalneav: @ubuntu.com
[04:55] <sbalneav> k, gimme 10
[04:55] <pitti> mvo_: ah, I think I have a potential candidate for the break:
[04:55] <pitti> Package: apt-index-watcher
[04:55] <pitti> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends} ${misc:Depends}
[04:55] <pitti> mvo_: there's no comma, that might confuse pkg-create-dbgsym
[04:55] <pitti> if that's valid syntax, I'll fix it
[04:56] <infinity> It's not valid syntax.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> QuestionMarkCoun: try !gpg
[05:02] <pitti> mvo_: saw above comment?
[05:02] <Kaleo> rodarvus: some interesting stuff added to bug 54858
[05:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54858 in xserver-xorg-video-i810 "3d acceleration broken in Edgy Knot 1" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/54858
[05:02] <QuestionMarkCoun> !gpg
[05:02] <QuestionMarkCoun> ??
[05:03] <Hobbsee> QuestionMarkCoun: in a channel with ubotu in it
[05:03] <Hobbsee> QuestionMarkCoun: anything with ! in front of it is a bot command - usually a factoid
[05:03] <QuestionMarkCoun> sorry... i am not using irc often
[05:06] <doko> infinity, cprov: please requeue ecj-bootstrap on amd64
[05:06] <cprov> infinity: around yet ?
[05:06] <infinity> cprov: Yeah, I'm here, I'm on it...
[05:07] <infinity> (Well, actually, I'll be doing a mass-give-back, but that's sort of the same as "on it")
[05:07] <cprov> infinity: tks
[05:14] <sbalneav> pitti: ogra: sent.
[05:15] <LaserJock> *cough*LVM support in edgy kernel*cough*
[05:18] <HiddenWolf> LaserJock: i've been running lvm's since hoary at least. :)
[05:19] <cbx33> hi guys, I did an upgrade the other night, and upon rebooting lost all network devices
[05:19] <LaserJock> yeah, but edgy's kernel doesn't appear to have it
[05:19] <cbx33> LaserJock, I've gotten the kill stuff working in scp :D
[05:20] <LaserJock> HiddenWolf: i.e. bug 54189
[05:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54189 in Ubuntu "LVM support forgotten in newest kernel update?" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/54189
[05:23] <zul> LaserJock: it shouldnt have disappeared something other must have been broken
[05:23] <matt_> Kamion: We spoke a while ago about some changes to preseeds. I was wondering if you could answer a question of mine regarding udebs. Is there a specification for udebs? How is the debian installer instructed on what udebs to load? How could I create a udeb that stars after disk-detect but before partman runs? I have dug around in the initrd stuff and some other udeb code, but I have to admit that I am a bit lost.
[05:24] <LaserJock> zul: true. I needed to change root= in grub to /dev/mapper/ubuntu-root to get my box to boot
[05:24] <LaserJock> zul: I'm not sure what would be responsible for that
[05:26] <elmo> matt_: kamion is on holiday
[05:30] <matt_> Ah, can anyone answer this question? ;-)
[05:31] <matt_> From what I have seen, udebs and related things are not well documented, if at all; and the only people who would be expected to understand their functioning in the d-i framework is the developers themselves.
[05:41] <pitti> zul: ah, I just tracked down and fixed the cause of the xen-3.0 FTBFS and also added a test suite check for it
[05:43] <zul> pitti: ah thanks..
[05:43] <desrt> there is no dana; only zul!
[05:43] <pitti> zul: I'll tell you when the fixed pkg-create-dbgsym is in the archive
[05:43] <pitti> zul: the current version seems to be stuck anyway
[05:46] <zul> pitti: yeah it is :(
[05:46] <HiddenWolf> pitti: got a minute?
[05:47] <pitti> HiddenWolf: yes
[05:47] <HiddenWolf> pitti: I'm still having issues with hal on my freshly-installed dapper box. usbsticks mount fine, but my cdrom seems to be owned by root.
[05:48] <pitti> HiddenWolf: cdrom == the device node /dev/whatever, or the mounted fs?
[05:48] <HiddenWolf> the mounted fs
[05:48] <HiddenWolf> I popped in a dvd, it doesn't show up for my user, but it does when I sudo nautilus
[05:48] <pitti> HiddenWolf: is it a real CD, or a DVD with UDF?
[05:48] <pitti> ah
[05:49] <pitti> HiddenWolf: UDF has real permissions, and does not like uid/gid mount options
[05:49] <pitti> I'm afraid there is no quickfix for that
[05:50] <HiddenWolf> Can i work around it?
[05:51] <pitti> HiddenWolf: do you have pmount 0.9.12 (edgy) or dapper?
[05:52] <pitti> HiddenWolf: I did a small fix to 0.9.12 which should help a little (loosen umask)
[05:52] <HiddenWolf> pitti: I'm running a pretty virgin dapper
[05:52] <HiddenWolf> pitti: my usb-drive just stopped mounting too.
[05:53] <pitti> HiddenWolf: hm, oh, wait, the DVD drive is certainly in /etc/fstab?
[05:53] <HiddenWolf> nor a real cd
[05:53] <HiddenWolf> yes, it is
[05:53] <pitti> hey seb128 
[05:53] <pitti> HiddenWolf: ok, in the fstab case, pmount cannot do anything
[05:53] <seb128> hey pitti
[05:53] <pitti> HiddenWolf: you might try to add 'umask=000' to the CD-ROM's option list in fstab
[05:53] <pitti> seb128: go away, you have a holiday! :)
[05:54] <seb128> pitti: I'm not around to work, don't worry ;)
[05:54] <HiddenWolf> pitti: I guess hal is choking totally now
[05:54] <seb128> pitti: I just joined IRC to speak to a friend ;)
[05:55] <HiddenWolf> pitti: just plugged a pendrive in my usb hub, and it doesn't come up
[05:55] <seb128> pitti: though, if you want to debug gdb with me I would not say no :p
[05:55] <HiddenWolf> pitti: but mounted as root
[05:55] <pitti> HiddenWolf: hm, sorry for that; can you please do the debugging steps on that wiki page and open a bug or mail me the logs?
[05:55] <HiddenWolf> pitti: which mail would you prefer, I can mail them now.
[05:55] <pitti> HiddenWolf: martin.pitt@ubuntu.com
[05:56] <HiddenWolf> coming right up
[06:01] <pitti> mvo_: bah, I'm just modifying pkg-create-dbgsym to cope with the previous Depends: line
[06:01] <pitti> mvo_: but well, that cannot hurt anyway
[06:02] <seb128> pitti: I'm wondering if something is not breaking -dbg packages
[06:02] <seb128> pitti: is there any known issue?
[06:03] <pitti> not known to me at least
[06:03] <seb128> ok
[06:03] <pitti> seb128: you mean the -dbg packages do not work any more?
[06:03] <pitti> or some of them?
[06:03] <seb128> because I've libglib2.0-0-dbg and nautilus-dbg and I got some crasher with no debug for those
[06:03] <seb128> some
[06:03] <seb128> $ gdb -p $(pidof nautilus)
[06:03] <seb128> ...
[06:04] <seb128> Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.1000.1...done.
[06:04] <seb128> ...
[06:04] <pitti> seb128: I have some special code in pkg-create-dbgsym that should make sure not to break *-dbg
[06:04] <seb128> Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libnautilus-extension.so.1...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
[06:04] <seb128> and I've nautilus-dbg installed 
[06:04] <pitti> seb128: however, I'll add a test suite check for that case
[06:04] <mvo_> pitti: oh, sorry. I was assuming that you would only do it if it was actually legal syntax
[06:05] <pitti> mvo: well, it's not really, but since the package builds without pkg-create-dbgsym, I thought I'd fix it anyway :)
[06:05] <pitti> seb128: I'll try that on my box in some minutes
[06:05] <seb128> pitti: ok, thank you
[06:09] <pitti> mvo: hmm, it seems pretty tough to convince dpkg-gencontrol to ignore this Depends: line; I think I'll defer that, now that you fixed it anyway
[06:09] <bddebian> Howdy
[06:09] <mvo> pitti: fine with me
[06:10] <HiddenWolf> pitti: right, I'm going to stop bugging you, a reboot pretty much fixed it, save for the dvd. Only one question, I only have a haldaemon group, but no hal group, which debuggingremovabledevices mentions
[06:10] <pitti> HiddenWolf: that's fine; I'll update the wiki page for 'haldaemon'
[06:11] <HiddenWolf> pitti: excuse me for the trouble, and thank you.
[06:11] <pitti> HiddenWolf: no worries, I didn't do anything :)
[06:11] <pitti> HiddenWolf: does the umask=000 trick help?
[06:11] <iwj> Right, well, I've found the bug that make firefox-themes-ubuntu fail to break utterly.
[06:11] <HiddenWolf> pitti: commenting out the drive in /etc/fstab did it.
[06:12] <pitti> HiddenWolf: hah, pmount to the rescue :)
[06:12] <iwj> I wish there was a nice way to predict what apt will do.
[06:12] <bddebian> Prayer?
[06:12] <pitti> iwj: you mean the Breaks: field?
[06:15] <mdz> doko: pong
[06:16] <pitti> seb128: hm, at least my small demo package which produces a -dbg works fine
[06:16] <mdz> sabdfl: ethereal security?  a contradiction in terms, I'd say
[06:16] <pitti> hey mdz
[06:16] <pitti> mdz: :)
[06:16] <seb128> pitti: what do you call "works fine"?
[06:16] <seb128> pitti: does nautilus-dbg from the archive works fine?
[06:16] <pitti> seb128: if I install the -dbg, I get symbols
[06:17] <pitti> seb128: trying nautilus now
[06:18] <mdz> pitti: morning
[06:18] <ogra> hmm
[06:18] <ogra> debian drops netkit-inetd ? 
[06:18] <elmo> mdz: it's in main :-P
[06:18] <elmo> mdz: (that's why sabdfl was asking)
[06:18] <mvo> iwj: do you know http://people.debian.org/~dburrows/model.pdf?
[06:18] <ogra> in favor of openbsd-inetd
[06:18] <ogra> do we follow that path ? 
[06:18] <pitti> elmo: which package, ethereal? god beware...
[06:19] <pitti> Hey Keybuk, how are you?
[06:19] <bddebian> Heya Keybuk
[06:19] <Keybuk> "morning"
[06:19] <elmo> james@drescher:/srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-archive/ubuntu/dists/edgy/main/binary-i386$ zgrep "Package: wireshark" Packages.gz
[06:19] <elmo> Package: wireshark
[06:19] <elmo> pitti: ^--
[06:19] <pitti> seb128: I installed nautilus-dbg libglib2.0-0-dbg and now I get nice backtraces
[06:20] <seb128> pitti: hum, k, so that's local b0rkage probably :/
[06:20] <seb128> sight
[06:20] <pitti> elmo: arrgh, who put it there?
[06:20] <pitti> Keybuk: may it be that you accidentally put wireshark into main when you NEWed it?
[06:20] <seb128> pitti: how do you get it crashing?
[06:20] <Keybuk> pitti: it wasn't accidental
[06:20] <pitti> seb128: I didn't, I just attached gdb and bt'ed
[06:20] <Keybuk> pitti: wireshark is just ethereal renamed, and ethereal was in main already
[06:20] <pitti> Keybuk: there is no MIR, and I would have never approved it
[06:21] <pitti> Keybuk: certainly not, it's in universe in all stables
[06:21] <seb128> pitti: gdb -p PID
[06:21] <seb128> pitti: it does "Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libnautilus-extension.so.1...
[06:21] <seb128> (no debugging symbols found)...done."
[06:21] <pitti> seb128: gdb /usr/bin/nautilus `pidof nautilus`
[06:21] <seb128> pitti: instead of 
[06:21] <Keybuk> pitti: that's odd
[06:21] <seb128> "Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libgnomeui-2.so.0...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libgnomeui-2.so.0.1590.1...done."
[06:21] <seb128> for libgnomeui-dbg by example
[06:21] <Keybuk> pitti: it certainly wasn't yesterday
[06:21] <mdz> elmo: inadvertently
[06:22] <Keybuk>   ethereal | 0.99.2-5ubuntu1 |          edgy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[06:22] <Keybuk> or today
[06:22] <Keybuk> definitely in main
[06:23] <pitti> Keybuk: can you please fix it? I will be etherealny thankful to you :)
[06:23] <pitti> s/fix/demote again/
[06:23] <pitti> seb128: Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libnautilus-extension.so.1...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libnautilus-extension.so.1.1.0...done.
[06:24] <seb128> pitti: ok, so just my box having the issue, weird
[06:24] <pitti> seb128: dpkg -L nautilus-dbg|grep extension  shows the debug symbols for me; for you?
[06:24] <Keybuk> pitti: doesn't seem to be seeded or dependend on by anything *shrug*
[06:24] <Keybuk> sure
[06:24] <pitti> Keybuk: right, it's in anastacia
[06:24] <seb128> pitti: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 83K 2006-08-08 17:50 /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libnautilus-extension.so.1.1.0
[06:24] <Keybuk> how weird
[06:24] <Keybuk> it must have been a dep or something at some point
[06:25] <pitti> seb128: if you go into gdb and do 'symbol-file /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libnautilus-extension.so.1.1.0', what happens?
[06:25] <seb128> (gdb) symbol-file /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libnautilus-extension.so.1.1.0
[06:25] <seb128> Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libnautilus-extension.so.1.1.0...done.
[06:25] <seb128> Using host libthread_db library "/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libthread_db.so.1".
[06:27] <pitti> seb128: objdump -h /usr/lib/libnautilus-extension.so.1.1.0|grep debuglink
[06:27] <seb128> $ objdump -x /usr/lib/libnautilus-extension.so | grep .gnu_debuglink
[06:27] <seb128>  22 .gnu_debuglink 00000024  00000000  00000000  000069b8  2**0
[06:27] <seb128> what I was just looking at
[06:27] <pitti> hm, looks fine
[06:27] <seb128> yeah :/
[06:27] <pitti> seb128: if you apt-get install --reinstall the library and -dbg, does it still happen? (maybe it's shadowed by a local build)
[06:27] <pitti> seb128: i. e. a CRC mismatch
[06:28] <pitti> seb128: you might have one package dpkg -i'ed from a local build and the other from archive.u.c</wild speculation>
[06:28] <seb128> trying that now
[06:29] <seb128> pitti: 
[06:29] <seb128> Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libnautilus-extension.so.1...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libnautilus-extension.so.1.1.0...done.
[06:29] <seb128> that fixed it :)
[06:29] <seb128> thank you
[06:29] <pitti> \o/
[06:29] <pitti> seb128: *hug*
[06:29] <seb128> I didn't know there was not sore of verification
[06:29] <seb128> s/sore/sort
[06:29] <pitti> seb128: the .gnu.debuglink has a CRC32 checksum
[06:30] <ogra> heh
[06:31] <seb128> ogra: yeah, enough time between replies to chat on that chan too :p
[06:31] <ogra> hehe
[06:31] <ogra> excuses
[06:31] <seb128> pitti: ah? maybe want to debug bug #56391 then? :p
[06:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56391 in gdb "on edgy gdb crashes on xchat-gnome or gaim (by example)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56391
[06:31] <ogra> admit, youre addicted to coding
[06:31] <pitti> seb128: *sigh*
[06:31] <seb128> ogra: that's not really "coding" :)
[06:32] <ogra> :)
[06:32] <seb128> pitti: joke aside that bug is no fun, I can't attach xchat-gnome or gaim or .. to gdb on edgy
[06:32] <pitti> seb128: gdb /usr/bin/gaim `pidof gaim` works just fine here, kthxbye :-P
[06:32] <seb128> pitti: do you connect to a network?
[06:32] <pitti> seb128: seriously, that's strange, too; what happens?
[06:32] <pitti> seb128: yes, ICQ and jabber
[06:33] <seb128> pitti: dunno, gdb gaim crashes gdb when connecting to a server
[06:33] <seb128> does the same on the xchat-gnome crasher I described
[06:33] <pitti> well, I'm not connecting to a server *right now*, but I am connected
[06:33] <seb128> it was doing the same on update-manager when it crashed on previous apt ABI change
[06:33] <pitti> seb128: let me attach gdb, disconnect and connect again
[06:34] <seb128> pitti: attaching a running gaim is fine
[06:34] <pitti> *shrug* works just fine
[06:35] <pitti> maybe an i386 specific problem?
[06:35] <Chipzz> seb128: I just tried attaching to a running nautilus; it worked (although my edgy install hasn't been updated in 2 or 3 days, if that matters)
[06:35] <seb128> pitti: disconnecting and reconnecting doesn't crash it
[06:35] <seb128> pitti: gdb gaim, (gdb) run does when using autoconnect
[06:36] <seb128> pitti: might be
[06:36] <pitti> seb128: ah, I misinterpreted your 'is fine' as 'will reproduce the bug', not as 'will not cause the bug'
[06:36] <seb128> ah
[06:37] <seb128> doko made me rebuild gdb with -fno-stack-protector some time ago but it makes no difference
[06:37] <seb128> the dapper gdb does a "thread_db_get_info: cannot get thread info: generic error" but doesn't crash
[06:38] <pitti> seb128: ok, I did gdb /usr/bin/gaim, now gaim connected to both icq and jabber
[06:38] <pitti> what now?
[06:38] <seb128> nothing, on my box that hangs for some seconds and I get a "gdb crashed" apport dialog ;)
[06:38] <pitti> I can ^C, bt, cont
[06:39] <seb128> k, you don't get the issue then :/
[06:39] <pitti> :-(
[06:40] <seb128> I'll try to find some other way to get it
[06:45] <pygi> pitti, poke? :)
[06:45] <pygi> k3b burns cd's  with libburn :)
[06:45] <pitti> cool!
[06:45] <pitti> pygi: you modified k3b to use libburn?
[06:45] <pygi> pitti, why should I?
[06:46] <pitti> pygi: or did you write a fronted for libburn that looks like cdrecord?
[06:46] <pygi> the libburn-on-cdrecord layer I was talking to you about
[06:46] <ogra> an ugly mask ?
[06:46] <pitti> pygi: I'm just wondering, because k3b does not depend on libburn-1
[06:46] <pygi> ogra, will just make transition easier, for now
[06:47] <pygi> pitti, well, ofcourse it doesn't :)
[06:48] <ogra> pygi, i know ...
[06:48] <pitti> pygi: btw, is the libburn that's currently in the archive (and didn't change since hoary) the same libburn you are working on? or a different project?
[06:48] <seb128> pitti: 
[06:49] <seb128> "Stacktrace:
[06:49] <seb128>  (no debugging symbols found)
[06:49] <seb128>  Using host libthread_db library "/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libthread_db.so.1"."
[06:49] <seb128> for an evolution crasher
[06:50] <pygi> pitti, depends on how you look at it... the old upstream stopped development two years ago (altought they claim differently), and they say it's still being developed...so I just took it, and started working on it
[06:50] <seb128> with a almost 40M coredump 
[06:50] <pygi> Derek (as of old upstream) called it fork, but whatever
[06:50] <pitti> pygi: ah, ok
[06:50] <seb128> pitti: sorry for flooding you with different issues ;)
[06:50] <pygi> pitti, it'll probably replace the old version in debian archive once we release 0.2.1
[06:50] <pitti> seb128: no problem, what's the issue here?
[06:50] <seb128> pitti: how come that a 40M coredump gives no bt? :)
[06:51] <seb128> "Stacktrace:
[06:51] <seb128>  (no debugging symbols found)
[06:51] <seb128>  Using host libthread_db library "/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libthread_db.so.1".
[06:51] <seb128> ThreadStacktrace:
[06:51] <seb128>  (no debugging symbols found)
[06:51] <seb128>  Using host libthread_db library "/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libthread_db.so.1"."
[06:51] <seb128> that's what the it has for it
[06:51] <pitti> seb128: hm, strange
[06:51] <seb128> -rw------- 1 seb128 seb128 40M 2006-08-15 18:47 /var/crash/_usr_bin_evolution-2.8.1000.crash
[06:51] <pitti> seb128: this is a recent crash, i. e. with kernel 2.6.17-6?
[06:51] <pitti> oh, apparently
[06:51] <seb128> it happens 1 min ago
[06:51] <seb128> my evo just crashed :p
[06:51] <ne78> Does the the current version of edgy support GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap in its opengl library ?
[06:51] <seb128> happened
[06:51] <slomo> pygi: replace what? cdrecord?
[06:52] <pygi> slomo, no, no, libburn :)
[06:52] <pitti> seb128: can you please try 'apport-retrace -s /var/crash/_usr_bin_evolution-2.8.1000.crash'?
[06:52] <seb128> pitti: I got the evolution crashed dialog twice, maybe they conflicted?
[06:52] <pitti> twice? interesting, another bug
[06:52] <slomo> pygi: ok :) they're talking about removing cdrecord currently btw and replacing it with something else...
[06:52] <pygi> slomo, who? that might be interesting :)
[06:53] <slomo> pygi: debian
[06:53] <pygi> slomo, links, people, anything useful pls? :)
[06:53] <seb128> pitti: could be nice if /var/log/apport.log could list the binary name of the crash too
[06:53] <slomo> pygi: woo... one moment :)
[06:53] <pitti> seb128: bzr head does that now
[06:54] <seb128> pitti: what is "apport-retrace -s /var/crash/_usr_bin_evolution-2.8.1000.crash" supposed to do?
[06:54] <pitti> seb128: 0.11 has quite a few fixes already; I just want to finish one (quite big) before I upload it
[06:54] <seb128> /var/crash/_usr_bin_evolution-2.8.1000.crash has still no bt
[06:54] <pitti> seb128: it takes the core from the report and calls gdb again
[06:55] <slomo> pygi: hm, it's on debian-devel... but the ml-archives are outdated :(
[06:55] <pygi> slomo, ok, so could you please quickly fill me in on current situation? :)
[06:56] <slomo> pygi: unfortunately not ;) i didn't read the complete thread... at least it is decided to remove joerg schilling's version from the archive but it was still discussed how to replace it
[06:57] <pitti> seb128: I guess I'll write another tool that extracts the coredump from a report and saves it into a file for further examination
[06:57] <pygi> slomo, point me at least to someone who might know?
[06:57] <seb128> pitti: yeah, I was just trying to do that by hand :p
[06:58] <pitti> seb128: it's three lines of python, I can quickly tell you if you want
[06:58] <seb128> pitti: yes please :)
[06:58] <seb128> I just want to try to attach gdb to it by hand
[06:58] <bddebian> Has libiec61883-dev not hit the archives yet?
[06:58] <Keybuk> bddebian: hmm?
[06:58] <Keybuk> I only just NEW'd it, I wouldn't expect it yet
[06:59] <slomo> bddebian: binary NEW last time i looked
[06:59] <bddebian> Hmm, I thought it got accepted yesterday, sorry
[06:59] <seb128> bddebian: src != binary
[06:59] <bddebian> Aye
[07:01] <slomo> pygi:  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=377109 <-- the corresponding bugreport with much discussion about the license problems...
[07:01] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 377109 in cdrtools "cdrtools: GPL violation - makefiles distributed under non-GPL-compatible license" [Serious,Open]  
[07:02] <iwj> pitti: Yes, I mean about Breaks.
[07:02] <slomo> pitti: shouldn't the stuff in /var/crash also contain backtraces? it doesn't for me... is there something special needed to get them?
[07:02] <pygi> slomo, oh, joerg again!
[07:02] <iwj> mvo: Burrows> No, I hadn't.  Not sure I want to ...
[07:02] <pitti> slomo: it should, yes, if you have kernel 2.6.17-6
[07:03] <pitti> slomo: do you?
[07:03] <slomo> pitti: ok, reboot :)
[07:03] <slomo> brb
[07:12] <pygi> slomo, Eduard ^_^
[07:12] <pygi> slomo, he's being the one very interested in libburn ^_^
[07:12] <mdz> mvo: eek!  --fix-policy --install-recommends -> 4 upgraded, 126 newly installed, 11 to remove and 12 not upgraded.
[07:13] <mdz> mvo: looks like we have some recommends cleanup to do :-)
[07:14] <slomo> hm, i get exim4 and tetex as recommends somewhere =)
[07:15] <pitti> mdz: welcome to the world of sane dependencies :/
[07:17] <mdz> a lot of packages seem to recommend their documentation
[07:17] <iwj> I think that's pretty much SOP in Debian ...
[07:31] <ogra> mdz, debian plans to drop netkit-inetd it seems in favor of openbsd-inetd (universe currently) do we want to follow that path in edgy ? or postpone it ? 
[07:32] <mdz> ogra: it would be nice, but surely you have enough to do already
[07:32] <ogra> do you think thats more than a MiR ?
[07:33] <ogra> according to vagrantc who looked closer the configs are 100% compatible 
[07:33] <ogra> so there should be no issues in just replacing one with the other 
[07:35] <Keybuk> ogra: I didn't think we shipped an inetd anymore?
[07:36] <ogra> Keybuk, edubuntu does (we ship ltsp by default)
[07:36] <Keybuk> probably not worth the effort?  in edgy+1 we should be able to use upstart for that
[07:36] <ogra> and currently netkit-inetd is the only one we support in main
[07:37] <tseng> pitti: apport stop is no problem, thanks alot!
[07:37] <ogra> well, i doubt they will drop it before edgy release ... 
[07:40] <mdz> ogra: apt-cache showpkg netkit-inetd
[07:41] <ogra> argh, right 
[07:41] <ogra> sorry then ... lets wait for debia to do that work for us :)
[07:41] <ogra> *debian
[07:41] <bddebian> heh
[07:41] <mdz> ogra: and we have both netkit-inetd and xinetd in main
[07:42] <ogra> oh
[07:42] <ogra> i always thought xinetd was in universe ... i admit i never checked 
[07:44] <mdz> lamont: surely postfix shouldn't recommend resolvconf, at most suggest it
[07:46] <mdz> zul: xen-edgy still has status Unknown in launchpad; would you update that to an accurate value?
[07:51] <zul> mdz: sure
[08:08] <sabdfl> thom: those x60 issues resolved?
[08:09] <thom> sabdfl: not rebooted the new kernel actually
[08:09] <sabdfl> ok, if i'm back in a minute or two, all's well :-)
[08:16] <thom> hrrm, that's not looking good
[08:17] <thom> http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2162306/first-open-source-java-promised
[08:19] <mc44> haha I see all the "fun" packages are up for maintainence at http://www.ubuntu.com/employment :)
[08:20] <sabdfl> yeah baby - all clear thom
[08:21] <bddebian> mc44: Heh, no kidding :-)
[08:21] <thom> sabdfl: nifteh
[08:22] <Keybuk> what's the X60 like as a laptop?
[08:22] <thom> Keybuk: i have th X60s and it's awesome
[08:22] <elmo> Keybuk: do not question the cult of the thinkpad.  just submit and buy one
[08:22] <Keybuk> have they put touchpads on them yet?
[08:22] <thom> typically hitting 5 hours battery life, dual core obviously
[08:22] <thom> and happily no touchpad 
[08:24] <Keybuk> elmo: heh, can't afford a new laptop -- got to save up yet
[08:24] <Keybuk> just interested in what the "current" shiny models are
[08:25] <mc44> bddebian: you should defnatly aply for te X maintainer job :p
[08:25] <elmo> GRR
[08:26] <elmo> ok, so gnome-screensaver has gotten ridiculously buggy for me in dapper recently
[08:26] <mc44> wow that was some bad spelling
[08:26] <elmo> was it part of update-the-world?
[08:26] <ogra> elmo, yes, whats wrong ?
[08:26] <elmo> yes :-(
[08:26] <bddebian> mc44: Nah I'm stupid and they all hate me :-)
[08:26] <elmo> ogra: every so often when I come back to my computer, the screen is just blank
[08:26] <ogra> hmm
[08:26] <elmo> ogra: key presses and/or mouse movement don't do anything
[08:26] <mc44> bddebian: just like X! :)
[08:27] <Keybuk> bddebian: sounds like you're emminently qualified then
[08:27] <elmo> ogra: switching to console and killing gnome-screensaver gets me X back
[08:27] <ogra> hrm
[08:27] <ogra> ati/nvidia involved ? 
[08:28] <Lure> pygi, slomo: regarding cdrecord: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/195167/d4d37493df901eec/
[08:28] <thom> Keybuk: the X-series stuff looks considerably better than the nc2400 for sure
[08:28] <elmo> ogra: nope, R250, free drivers
[08:28] <bddebian> Hmm, they don't mention pay scale ;-)
[08:29] <mc44> for X they better give you their first born as well
[08:29] <thom> Keybuk: and the 4200 is still on P-M
[08:29] <Keybuk> thom: I'm certainly disinclined to return to HP at the moment, this one just hasn't lasted as long as I'd've liked
[08:29] <ogra> elmo, r250 is not an ati ?
[08:29] <elmo> ogra: yes it is?
[08:29] <Keybuk> given my Latitude LS is *still* going, and still entirely rigid ... and this one is barely holding together
[08:29] <thom> nod
[08:29] <elmo> ogra: but I'm not using the non-free crap, is what I mean
[08:30] <ogra> right 
[08:30] <Keybuk> the thingsI'm least happy about is how quickly the screen has failed
[08:30] <Keybuk> and that the battery life is virtually zero
[08:30] <Keybuk> and the latter appears to be a charger problem not a battery problem
[08:30] <ogra> elmo, can you see the 3d hacks previews in the screensaver config window ? 
[08:31] <ogra> like antinspect or antspotlight
[08:31] <elmo> hmm, there is no select screensaver
[08:31] <elmo> cute
[08:31] <elmo> I supsect this is because I use to have 'flame' selected and SOMEONE decided that wasn't a shiny enough screensaver
[08:31] <elmo> so I no longer have it installed
[08:32] <ogra> huh ? it should still be there
[08:32] <ogra> ouch, no ... not if you dont have xscreensaver-data-extras installed
[08:32] <ogra> which is in universe
[08:33] <elmo> ogra: I'll try installing that
[08:33] <ogra> i can move it to the main package if i know you like it :) i doubt anybody will object :)
[08:33] <Keybuk> . o O { I remember, once, that we claimed we'd never break an existing user's configuration }
[08:34] <ogra> Keybuk, right, but thats an upstream issue i wasnt aware yet ... it'll need to fall back to something sane ...
[08:37] <QuestionMarkCoun> does anybody know, how to add a udeb to debian-installer Packages file?
[08:52] <bddebian> Doh
[08:53] <zul> Keybuk: heh...what did he do now?
[08:53] <Keybuk> requested a sync for cdbs
[08:53] <zul> hah
[08:53] <ogra> doit :) and we'll have a lt of fun :)
[08:53] <ogra> *lot
[08:57] <KhanReaper> How do I create my own udeb file? Most importantly, how do I have the debian installer load it after disk-detect and before partman? How does d-i know when to do this?
[08:57] <LaserJock> Keybuk: I believe the reason he the sync of cdbs was to get some new python policy stuff
[08:58] <Keybuk> LaserJock: and what about the Ubuntu changes to cdbs?
[08:58] <LaserJock> umm, "Not my problem" ;-)
[08:59] <Keybuk> heh
[09:00] <Keybuk> LaserJock: I'm so not believing you if you ever request a sync and claim "ok to override ubuntu changes" <g>
[09:01] <LaserJock> doh
[09:01] <LaserJock> just trying to manage divergence ;-)
[09:01] <Keybuk> ;)
[09:02] <Keybuk> right, food time, back for TB
[09:05] <QuestionMarkCoun> I want do build my own keyring udebs and debs... so I have to put my public key in them, right?
[09:07] <QuestionMarkCoun> and when I get debian-installer to load my keyring.udeb with my public key in it, d-i will be able to verify the packages, which where signed with my private key, right?
[09:55] <slomo> Keybuk: could you please move libiec61883 to main? MIR was approved by pitti some seconds ago and latest gst-plugins-good upload will need it
[10:00] <Keybuk> slomo: sure
[10:00] <slomo> Keybuk: thanks :)
[10:14] <thom> sabdfl: http://haecceity.clearairturbulence.org/articles/2006/08/15/apache-2-2-finally-hits-debian 
[10:21] <Toadstool> Keybuk: argh, gnomebaker hates me :) sorry for the noise
[10:36] <bluefoxicy> Reading package lists... Error!
[10:36] <bluefoxicy> E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room
[10:37] <bluefoxicy> uh oh.
[10:37] <rkd> if i wanted to begin to contribute to ubuntu as a programmer, what languages/gui toolkits should i learn?
[10:39] <bddebian> C, C++, Python, Gtk, Qt... :-)
[10:40] <slomo> bluefoxicy: fixed in latest apt
[10:41] <slomo> bluefoxicy: workaround: add APT::Cache-Limit "141943904"; to apt.conf
[10:46] <zyga> sabdfl: sun is open sourcing java, maybe we will have sun's java on ppc after all :)
[10:46] <tseng> zyga: haha.
[10:48] <pygi> zyga, where you saw that? :)
[10:49] <zyga> pygi: flashes on ./ and digg, it was a semi joke though ;-)
[10:49] <pygi> zyga, ah ^_^
[10:53] <Keybuk> they _are_ actually opening sourcing java
[10:53] <Keybuk> however it's a bit like "you're gonna die! ... in 60 years or so"
[10:55] <zyga> Keybuk: IMO they aleady have, it's just becoming legal to compile & ship it without sun's blessing
[10:55] <zyga> i'll be a good thing in the long run
[11:06] <slomo> hm, the buildds seem to be broken
[11:08] <bluefoxicy> slomo:  thanks.  I was pretty sure I couldn't apt-get upgrade that away :)
[11:11] <sabdfl> thom: cool, congrats
[11:18] <mdke> who has access to the packages in dapper-commercial?
[11:19] <mdke> core-dev?
[11:30] <LaserJock> mdke: I wouldn't think core-dev even as I would think it would be Canonical specific
[11:33] <tseng> i think mvo is mostly the man behind it
[11:33] <LaserJock> yeah, mvo seems to handle those things
[11:48] <mdz> what is gqview doing in main?
[11:54] <mdz> sfllaw: ping
[11:57] <ajmitch> Keybuk: cdbs was meant to be UVF exception, which I missed from the description - I had merged (& even tested) it locally
[11:58] <Keybuk> ajmitch: wrong team for that then
[11:58] <pitti> ajmitch: oh, did yo merge cdbs for the python policy fix?
[11:58] <Keybuk> you wanted ubuntu-release, not ubuntu-archive
[11:58] <ajmitch> Keybuk: yes, force of habit, it seems
[11:58] <ajmitch> pitti: yes
[11:58] <pitti> \o/
[11:58] <pitti> ajmitch: I was just about to ask you about that :)
[11:59] <ajmitch> it makes it much easier to merge the changes :)
[12:00] <sfllaw> mdz: Pong.
[12:02] <mdke> LaserJock: hmm. I filed a really simple bug about realplayer being in the wrong menu in Gnome, and no one has responded, although I think I'd be a 30 second fix
[12:03] <mdke> I wondered if I should be going "upstream", if real produced the package