/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/08/16/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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poningru@schedule eastern02:48
UbugtuSchedule for Canada/Eastern: 16 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 12:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 16:00: Technical Board02:48
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rodarvus@now Sao_Paulo01:01
UbugtuCurrent time in America/Sao_Paulo: August 16 2006, 08:01:45 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 8 hours 58 minutes01:01
CyberKing!ping me01:10
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jsgotangco@schedule manila02:53
UbugtuSchedule for Asia/Manila: 17 Aug 04:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 00:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Aug 04:00: Technical Board02:53
jsgotangcoYAY02:53
simira@schedule oslo02:54
UbugtuSchedule for Europe/Oslo: 16 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board02:54
simira@schedule wiesbaden02:54
simira@schedule frankfurt02:54
azeemtry Berlin02:55
ograyeah, germany is somehow reduced to it ... :)02:56
azeem@schedule Munich02:57
azeemoutrageious02:57
simira@schedule berlin02:57
UbugtuSchedule for Europe/Berlin: 16 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board02:57
rodarvusogra, well, according to timezones, brazil is reduced to Sao_Paulo02:59
jsgotangcoimperial capitals!03:00
rodarvus(I think brazil is at least about 10-15x bigger than Germany ;)03:00
azeemprobably Sao Paulo is 10-15x bigger than Berlin as well03:00
rodarvusnah, berlin is rather big (3.5 million habitants)03:03
rodarvusSao Paulo only has 17 million habitants :D03:04
liciooO03:04
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zul@schedule montreal04:12
UbugtuSchedule for America/Montreal: 16 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 12:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 16:00: Technical Board04:12
nalioth@now04:13
UbugtuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: August 16 2006, 14:14:03 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 5 hours 45 minutes04:14
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highvoltage@schedule johannesburg09:44
UbugtuSchedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 16 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board09:44
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Aug 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
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sbalneavSo, where's the doughnuts?09:57
sbalneavNot a proper meeting without doughnuts09:57
=== cbx33 passes a doughnut to sbalneav
sbalneavAh, perfect.09:58
cbx33sbalneav, and to drink sir?09:58
cbx33we have a very rich '6809:58
sbalneavUmmmm.... Coffee.  Double Double.09:58
cbx33hehe09:58
cbx33coming right up09:58
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sbalneavThank you.  Service here is excellent.  I'll be back.09:59
RichEdhi ... back in 2 mins ...09:59
cbx33w00t, my work here is done 09:59
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=== RichEd shakes up a martini for sbalneav
sbalneavMan, a martini!?!  I gotta come to these meetings more often.10:00
rodarvushi guys10:00
cbx33hey rodarvus 10:00
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ograevening10:00
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highvoltagehi ogra10:00
sbalneavhey ogra10:00
RichEdhello ogra10:00
cbx33dang it man..../me reaches for the diet coke, and passes one to highvoltage  :p10:00
willvdlhey y'all10:00
cbx33hi ogra 10:00
ograhighvoltage, thanks for the agenda update i didnt save fast enough ;)10:01
highvoltagenp :)10:01
ograso, lets get started10:01
RichEdogra ... you drive ? i'll do next wek when you are sprinting ?10:02
ograi have to admit i was slacking a bit wrt CD images and edubuntu-meta, so i cant say much about the iso image status today, but i'll make sure they are usable on the weekend10:02
cbx33we know you've been busy ogra 10:03
ograon the other hand, do we have local devices nearly done ... thanks a lot to sbalneav who did the moreimportant stuff like writing a suid wrapper to make pitti happy :)10:03
rodarvus:)10:03
LaserJock\o/10:03
LaserJockthat's a big one10:03
ograand i must say its the coolest localdev implementation this world has wever seen10:03
ogra*ever10:03
ograits really really sexy :)10:03
cbx33:D:D10:03
rodarvusnice10:04
highvoltagewow. does that work like local devs on ltsp.org, or the fancy stuff that integrates with gnome an?10:04
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ogra(i guess you get how thrilled i am ;) )10:04
rodarvusdo you have a timeframe for integrating it into our package?10:04
sbalneavjust sent you off a gnuified tarball ready for packaging.  As long as pittis happy with it, it's zehr gut.10:04
cbx33you guys rock10:04
ograt operates on the lowest possible level, so its for example totally desktop independent10:04
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highvoltagewow10:04
sbalneavShould work with either kde or gnome.10:04
=== highvoltage will rsync friday
cbx33indeed10:05
ograe.g. you can use it similary on XFCE, KDE and GNOME10:05
highvoltage*grin*10:05
ograthe respective device handling app of the desktop can pick it up10:05
ograther is nothing to rsync yet, i'm waiting for pitti to approve the main inclusion of ltspfs/ltspfsd10:06
ograthen i'll add the stuff to the packages10:06
ograand add it to the ltsp  dependencys, so it gets installed by default10:06
ograshould happen during next week10:06
rodarvusreally good!10:07
rodarvusogra, sbalneav: congratulations :)10:07
cbx33definitely10:07
ogracbx33 did some work on scp i havent looked at deeply yet ...10:07
ograbut what he old me sounded very very promising ;)10:07
sbalneavJust doin' my job, ma'am10:07
ograso scp is going forward as well 10:07
highvoltageok10:07
cbx33ogra, need to have a chat to you about that at your easliest possible convenience10:08
ogramdz asked for a list of every dev for specs that might get dropped ...10:08
cbx33I have time tomorrow morning on train10:08
LaserJockogra: like specs that aren't going to make it?10:08
ograand wrt to the schedule i think its realistic to say i wont be able to implement them all 10:09
ograyep10:09
rodarvusLaserJock, yes. we need to make a decision next week, on which specs are going to be completed for edgy10:09
ograhe wants a realistic overview 10:09
rodarvusand which ones are going to be defered for edgy+110:09
LaserJockright10:09
ograright10:09
cbx33ogra, with a little help scp will be done10:09
ograscp is easy (at least for me, but apparently also for you ;) )10:10
rodarvusI don't have specs anymore (they're with ogra now), but expect to have some news during (or after) next week10:10
cbx33well, I thought if I did all I could it would free your time up for important things10:10
cbx33rodarvus, is this the big secret you couldn't tell us about two meetings ago?10:10
rodarvusI'm not telling anything you about, yet :D10:11
rodarvusbut yes, this is it.10:11
ograwhat worries me is the swap server, we urgently need that 10:11
ograso i'll prioritize that one for the sprint10:11
ograas well as ldm login and session handling10:11
cbx33heheh10:11
cbx33ogra, is ther eanything I can do to help out there?10:11
ograthe reason i bring it up in the meeting is that i want to hear from you guys if there is a spec you would consider urgent from a community POV10:11
ograhttps://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs10:11
ograhmm, is it me, or is LP slow10:12
cbx33yeh a little10:12
highvoltagegeez, those two specs you just mentioned were two of my most important ones since the first edubuntu release10:12
LaserJockseems ok to me10:12
cbx33yeh10:13
LaserJockogra: do you think you will try to fix sabayon?10:13
cbx33the ltsp manager would be great too10:13
rodarvusogra, do you want me to resume the swap server spec?10:13
cbx33LaserJock, is this for you to do your spec10:13
rodarvusI had started working on it already10:13
rodarvusshouldn't take long for me to complete this one10:13
rodarvusand you could focus on the others10:13
ograsince we will start with autoconfigured dhcp this release (i.e. the user doesnt need to configure anything) what do you all think about shipping a predefined lts.conf ?10:13
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cbx33ogra, sounds like a plan10:14
LaserJockcbx33: sorta, I do'nt think we can use sabayon for my spec so if ogra is too busy maybe that would be something to drop for now10:14
LaserJockor maybe somebody else could fix sabayon10:14
ograrodarvus, which one  ?10:15
ograso what i'd like to do for edubuntu is have a lts.conf that switches on the following as defaults:10:15
cbx33LaserJock, I would if I could10:15
highvoltageogra: i have always been a big proponent of including a default lts.conf, such as k12ltsp does10:15
cbx33LaserJock, if I can help please let me know10:15
ogra * 16bit graphics (speeds up a lot and saves mem, while not breaking anything)10:15
highvoltageogra: users are confused when you tell them 'change/edit this in lts.conf', and then the file isn't there10:15
cbx33highvoltage, totally10:15
cbx33even I got confused at that first hurdle10:15
sbalneavbrb, workping10:16
cbx33infact I remember we edited the install instructions on the wiki didn't we highvoltage ?10:16
highvoltageyep10:16
cbx33to tell them to create it10:16
rodarvusogra, this one -> https://blueprint.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/fully-automatic-swap-server10:16
sbalneavback10:20
ogra * local devices (might be problematic with very low specced clients)10:20
ogra * swap server ... (which indeed needs the server installed by default as well i.e. one addition to the server seed)10:20
ogra * sound ... (it will fail silently if no sound HW is avaliable)10:20
ograthats it10:20
ograrodarvus, ah, thanks :)10:20
ogralets look over your stuff in wiesbaden, if you are busyi can surely pick up10:20
ogra(i'm lagging a lot here, my network is like a swamp)10:20
cbx33ogra, yeh10:20
cbx33seems very delayed10:20
=== highvoltage too
ograok, so we'll ship a preconfigured ltsp this time, great :)10:20
LaserJockok, well I think we can ship a simple dynamic menu system with Edgy10:21
sbalneavogra: Where's the swap server at?  Can I give it any love?10:21
highvoltagefrom a technical pov, this release of edubuntu sounds like it will be superior in every way to the other edu distros10:21
highvoltagegreat work, ogra10:21
ograsbalneav, rodarvus has some changes to nbd-server afaik ... 10:21
cbx33highvoltage, totally10:21
LaserJockI've got my edgy box up and going and will be working on making .menu files and perhaps get started on a simple GUI10:21
sbalneavrodarvus: anything I can help with, or have you got it in hand?10:22
ograsbalneav, i was planning to jump on it during the sprint next week ... together with the ldm enhancements10:22
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rodarvussbalneav, its ok, thanks for the offer!10:22
sbalneavk10:22
rodarvusogra, let me do this on the sprint, then10:23
ograso thats all from tech side for this week ... a working iso should be there on the weekend as i said ...10:23
rodarvus(complete it, I mean)10:23
ograoh, and please everyone twst willow/willowng10:23
ogra*test10:23
ogra(i'll mail edubuntu-devel with a cal for testers tomorrow)10:24
ograthat thing needs a lot testing 10:24
ograand we want to ship it as default :)10:24
ograi wonder how many users out there run edubuntu edgy ... :)10:25
=== LaserJock raises his hand as of today
ograok, lets move on 10:25
highvoltagei don't think much yet :/10:25
ogradocumentation :10:25
ograanyone ? 10:25
=== ogra wonders what happened to HedgeMage
ograshe wasnt around much recently10:26
cbx33she's not freenode staff anymore is she?10:26
LaserJockI wonder if the Army got her?10:26
LaserJockor something10:26
cbx33or so I heard10:26
PWillorga, i put edubuntu edgy on a desktop i had lying around10:26
ograshe dropped that months ago10:26
sbalneavI'd be happy to help document some of the localdevs stuff, and go over the ltsp documenation on the wiki10:26
ograPWill, nice !10:26
cbx33and seeing as scp is going ahead, we'll need some scp docs, both in the Handbook and ingeneral?10:27
highvoltageogra: not strictly documentation, but can i jump in with webste stuff here too?10:27
cbx33Are we going to have a preinstalled manual for Edubuntu?10:27
ograhighvoltage, i thought you wanted to give that up :P 10:27
ograhighvoltage, indeed :)10:27
highvoltageogra: yes, that's what i want to discuss10:27
highvoltagei didn't initially want to give it up, but after elmo's mail i realised it's kind of inevitable10:28
ogracbx33, scp-> yep ... as well as willowng (even though there is not much to document)10:28
cbx33highvoltage, what's the problem?10:28
cbx33ogra, yeh10:28
highvoltageit's not something i ever really had the time to maintain, just something i really wanted to10:28
ograyep 10:28
cbx33ah I know the feeling10:28
highvoltageand i'd like to shift to more 'fun' stuff anyway10:28
ograbut for that we have a very good website ;)10:28
LaserJockyes10:29
ograyou did very well :)10:29
highvoltageso we needsome volunteers who wouls assist with maintenance and expantion of the site10:29
cbx33fantastic work highvoltage 10:29
highvoltagethanks:)10:29
cbx33I'd like to say I'll jump in seeing as I know drupal really really well now10:29
willvdlhighvoltage, what kind of maintenance and expansion?10:29
PWillhighvoltage: i do web design, i can help10:29
ograhighvoltage, RichEd is advertising i the K12LTSP community ;)10:30
highvoltagewe can have another website meeting, where we can discuss what needs to be done on the site, and flesh out tasks and responsibilities10:30
cbx33but I'm trying to get more into dev stuff10:30
highvoltageogra: heh10:30
ograit think most of it will be content management rather than webdesign10:30
cbx33highvoltage, on the wiki?10:30
cbx33ogra, yeh just drupal usage10:30
highvoltagemaintenance is basically upgrading drupal now and again, and keeping the new section updated10:30
highvoltagei think the above is the main reason elmo freaked out10:30
=== slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
cbx33upgrading drupal can be scary :p10:31
RichEdi'll give you guys more on web site & community later in my news10:31
ograhighvoltage, i thought thats donr by matthew ?10:31
ogra*done10:31
highvoltagecbx33: i was actually more referring to the news :)10:31
cbx33oh :p10:31
highvoltageogra: he can do that,yes10:31
highvoltagefor the content we'd have to rely on our community mostly, as far as i understand10:32
ograyep, that was the initial plan 10:32
ograbut the community needs to grow ;)10:32
cbx33we need a way to submit requests10:32
RichEd^^ as per my comment above we (Canonical) have a new dedicated community manager from Sept 410:32
highvoltagei want to get the wheel rolling on this, so is there any suggestions on a meeting time to discuss this?10:32
ograRichEd, and he will deal with teachers ?10:33
highvoltagewe would need about an hour or so10:33
RichEdJono Bacon .. well respected, good ideas.10:33
cbx33yeh Jono is cool10:33
RichEdHe will work with me to build a Edubuntu community model within the greater Ubntu community10:33
ograbut i suspect his focus will lie more in the ubuntu community10:33
ograah, thats a nice plan :)10:33
RichEdogra: we are already chatting ... he is keen to work together10:33
ograyup ... 10:34
=== highvoltage will post about the website stuff to the list with a request for meeting dates, and suggest one if no one else does
RichEdhe has an "education bent" .... i.e. a passion and his own theories10:34
cbx33RichEd, good good10:34
ograok, lets keep that for the commuity topic later ;)10:34
ograany other doc stuff ?10:34
ogradoesnt seem like 10:35
cbx33ogra, do meeting minutes10:35
cbx33fall under documentation10:35
cbx33;)10:35
ograin a certain aount, yes :)10:35
ogra*amount10:35
cbx33I wanted to ask if anyone actually uses the minutes I produce10:35
willvdlyip10:35
juliuxcbx33, yip10:35
willvdlkeeps me from asking inane redundant questions10:36
cbx33ok, question answered10:36
rodarvuscbx33, your meeting minutes are always important :)10:36
highvoltagewillvdl: really!? :p10:36
ograits easier to look through them than to search the raw logs :)10:36
cbx33the EdubuntuMeetingNotesNew page ?10:36
cbx33ok, 10:36
ogracbx33, but dont feel forced :)10:36
willvdlhighvoltage: I'm on medication10:36
cbx33no no it's fine10:36
cbx33they take a while to produce 10:37
cbx33hence why I fall behind10:37
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
cbx33once again sorry for that, just wanted to make sure my time was being well spent10:37
ograaccording to the reactions it is ;)10:37
ograok, moving on ... 10:38
ograartwork:10:38
ograany news from your two girl artwork team ? 10:38
cbx33oooh artwork10:38
cbx33yes10:38
cbx33https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette10:38
ograsomeone posted https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSounds to edubuntu-users last week10:38
cbx33we'll get to that10:38
ograheh10:39
cbx33lisa has been working hard10:39
ograthats you in the first splash, right ? 10:39
cbx33on creating some initial ideas for a palette10:39
cbx33nope10:39
cbx33ogra, you don;t even know how handsome I am :p10:39
rodarvuscbx33, nice stuff10:39
cbx33that's my brother in law10:39
ograah10:39
ograyeah, very nice !10:39
rodarvusjane is rather busy these days, her mother went under surgery last week10:39
cbx33we liked the idea of a young person "working"10:39
cbx33and "learning"10:39
cbx33rodarvus, send her my regards10:40
ogranote that ldm wont be able to show such nice fullscreen pics 10:40
rodarvus(we go to hospital every night to see her)10:40
cbx33I'll keep them in my thoughts10:40
rodarvuscbx33, will do10:40
cbx33ogra, sure10:40
cbx33we can simplify10:40
=== LaserJock tries to get his eyes to work again
ograyep10:40
ograLaserJock, dont like the colors ? 10:40
LaserJockjust bright10:41
cbx33yeh10:41
LaserJockmaybe I've stared down too many lasers or something :-)10:41
willvdlorange/yellow are colours of intelligence right?10:41
cbx33as I said, this is a palette10:41
ograorange/yellow are great10:41
LaserJockI like them, just a bit bright for me at the moment10:41
cbx33LaserJock, turn down the contrast10:41
ogra(says the man who pinted his office orange last week)10:41
ogra*painted)10:41
LaserJockyikes10:42
PWillreally?!10:42
willvdldid it work?10:42
ograyep :)10:42
PWillsweet10:42
ograit does, yes10:42
ograits a brownish orange 10:42
ogralike working in a flowerpot ;)10:42
LaserJockoh, well that's a bit better10:42
LaserJockhehe10:42
ograi made the room match my edubuntu desktop ;)10:42
ograogra, thats wonderful news for the artwork, ad i find it really slick ... :)10:43
cbx33lisa has asked for a quick poll on everyones fav10:43
cbx331,2,3 or 410:43
ograsplash 110:43
ogragdm 410:43
ograerr10:44
ograsplash 310:44
ograsorry10:44
rodarvuscbx33, is that you on the picture? :)10:44
ograheh10:44
PWilli say splash 410:44
cbx33rodarvus, no, my brother in law10:44
ograi asked the same :)10:44
willvdlsplash 4   gmd 410:44
PWillwillcdl knows what's up10:44
rodarvussplash and gdm one are really nice (but not sure if they could be used as default)10:45
rodarvusbut very likely as alternative gdm theme10:45
willvdlagree10:45
ograwhy not as default ?10:45
LaserJockah heck, I love them all :/10:45
ograrodarvus, willvdl ?10:46
LaserJockI like the inquisative, students in action kinda thing10:46
=== RichEd has been chasing a mosquito around his office
rodarvushmm, yeah, I changed my mind10:46
rodarvusI think it could be the default one, indeed10:46
cbx33:)10:47
ograheh10:47
cbx33lisa just made a big sigh of relief10:47
PWillLaserJock, i agree. we need more like that10:47
RichEdI vote 3 ... looks like the desktop is on fire :)10:47
willvdlogra, the photographer isn't that relevant to me10:47
ograwillvdl, well, in th econtext LaserJock just gave i think he is ...10:47
rodarvuscbx33, you (lisa, or whoever took the picture) would need to formally agree on letting this picture be used, you know10:47
cbx33lisa took it10:48
ograhe's documenting/learning whatever ... its a educational gesture (in a very rough view)10:48
cbx33and my brother in law has just been informed and said...COOL10:48
rodarvushaha10:48
willvdlogra, true10:48
PWillsomeone needs to get a picture of a playground with kids on it10:48
willvdlwithout getting arrested10:48
ograwillvdl, i agree that it porbably should be more intuitive :)10:48
RichEdnot to throw a spanner in, but from what janeW told me about previous decisions, when you use a singular person of a certain ethnicity, then there are sometimes "what about us" concerns10:49
LaserJockPWill: might be tough :-)10:49
PWillwell, my mother is a teacher, maybe she could get her students to sign releases or something10:49
willvdlRichEd: agree there too10:49
rodarvusRichEd, right, this is important10:49
rodarvusand lisa's brother seems to be blonde10:49
RichEdor even from the politically correct side of the fence: what about them ?10:49
cbx33RichEd, it's a little ambigous on a race/ethnicity issue10:49
ograRichEd, well, we survived that once, we'll do it again ;)10:49
LaserJockRichEd: could we just vary it? or do we have to have "all in one"10:49
cbx33but possibly not sex10:49
rodarvus(blondes are really rare here, for example)10:49
cbx33rodarvus, photoshop is a wonderful tool :p10:50
RichEdfair & equal representation10:50
LaserJocklol10:50
PWillheh10:50
willvdlrodarvus, and anywhere north of the limpopo river10:50
RichEdi.e one pic with all peoples ...10:50
RichEdor one pic per peoples10:50
ograRichEd, i have gotten mails where they called me racist back then because of it ... after the first shock you get used to just delete them ;)10:50
sbalneavWell, gotta go pick up the kiddies10:50
willvdlor remove the human element entirely?10:50
sbalneavsee you all later10:50
ograsbalneav, thanks for attending !10:50
ogragah !10:50
LaserJockwillvdl: but that's pretty bad too10:51
cbx33yeh10:51
ograwillvdl, thats a bad idea10:51
cbx33the human element works10:51
PWillright back..10:51
cbx33really well10:51
rodarvuswe hava situation in Brazil that a blong kid is always considered rich, so, not really ideal for the official image10:51
ograif we take a decision we just have ot stad to it10:51
rodarvus*have10:51
ogra*stand10:51
cbx33well the other alternative is to just have ambigouously coloured hands working on something10:51
rodarvuss/blong/blonde/10:51
ograbody parts are fine as well10:51
LaserJockanyway, if we had lots of pictures to chose from we could try to pick one or many that work well10:52
cbx33LaserJock, indeed10:52
RichEdogra: JaneW said that the community was fine with the CD cover and approval ... and then the mother grundies threw a wobbly10:52
willvdlwe can stand to it but can not always represent it10:52
ograbut having human elements is essential imho 10:52
cbx33as I said this is just a palette10:52
RichEdand community was overridden10:52
ograRichEd, exactly10:52
cbx33ogra, I totally agree10:52
ograRichEd, the human element is somewhat missing in the current artwork 10:52
cbx33ogra, yes I feel that too10:53
LaserJockaka, the chalkboard ;-)10:53
ograso it would be nice to get that back in10:53
RichEdwhat about a selection of human options ... but a non-human as default ?10:53
LaserJockmight work10:53
ograonly if we urgently need to10:53
PWillback10:53
LaserJockI think we should stick to the educational theme though10:53
ograi worked as graphics designer for some years ...10:53
cbx33LaserJock, yes10:53
willvdlor a styalised human10:53
cbx33willvdl, getting to the manga we had before10:54
RichEdor human reduced to a graphic or silhouette which is not-ethnic-discernable10:54
ograthe first thing you learn in the advertisement business here is 10:54
ograhave a human delivering your message10:54
cbx33you can't please everybody10:54
ograone that people can identify with10:54
cbx33there will ALWAYS be someone who is unhappy10:54
LaserJockanway...10:54
PWilllol10:54
willvdlthen we have to choose the largest target audience10:54
ograbut gdm is a special thing ...10:54
ogragdm is the thing you will see in the photograps from classrooms  ...10:55
cbx33ogra, yes10:55
ograits our face to the user10:55
ogramore important than the CD cover or wallpaper10:55
RichEdwe could always go the southpark route and offend everybody equally ;)10:55
PWillhaha10:55
ograsouthpark ++ 10:56
cbx33RichEd, heheh10:56
ogralets have kenny on gdm ;)10:56
PWillRichEd, great! I lov lawsuits10:56
PWilllove*10:56
RichEdall races all creeds ... step up for a sh!tt!n on10:56
=== RichEd stops with the silly stuff
cbx33heheh10:56
cbx33well10:56
ograand we need to move on ...10:57
cbx33here's the deal guys10:57
ogratime gets short10:57
cbx33just spoken with lisa10:57
cbx33we can take some photos on sunday of some different ethnicities10:57
ogragreat 10:58
cbx33there is quite a diverse range of people at my wifes church service10:58
PWillhow? just go up to people and ask if we can take thir picture?10:58
cbx33lots of kids10:58
ograPWill, sure, why not10:58
willvdlcbx33, can I send you some pics from transkei and madagascar10:58
RichEdwhat about same basic pose of individuals of different ethnicities might work, each incorporated into the same background graphic ?10:58
ogratell them "your pic will be seen in 1000000 schools" :)10:58
cbx33willvdl, if you have permission from the photographer and the people in it10:59
willvdlthey're my stock10:59
cbx33ogra, that's a little optimistic10:59
ogracbx33, nope ...10:59
cbx33willvdl, we would need a model release form from each person10:59
RichEdso the appearance is the same in a selection of wallpapers, with different individuals ?10:59
ogracbx33, thats a matter of time ;)10:59
willvdldepends on the country and location of shot11:00
cbx33RichEd, how many wallpapers would we need :p11:00
ograRichEd, did JaneW show you the set of pics we had for ubuntu ?11:00
cbx33willvdl, ok, but if we use someone, we need a model release form11:00
RichEdsay 5 ? most major groups ?11:00
ograerr11:00
cbx33too much I fell11:00
cbx33feel11:00
ograthats not doable spacewise 11:00
cbx33at this stage11:00
cbx33ogra, ++11:00
ogramax 3 wallpapers11:00
RichEdnote that sabdfl said he wil spring for DVD if we need to break the CD barrier11:01
ograRichEd, but our users wont11:01
=== RichEd was thinking about that ... old h/w
ograRichEd, the bigger part of them even hardly has CD drives available11:01
cbx33ogra, ++11:01
PWillmodel release form: http://www.dpcorner.com/all_about/releases.shtml11:01
PWillscroll down for the one for minors11:01
ograwe discussed that quite often the last releases11:01
cbx33thanks PWill 11:02
RichEdmaybe time is tight, but we could think next time about running a community competition ... submit your own photo and give up rights to us ?11:02
ograRichEd, there is no easy solution ... apart from starting to ship on more than one CD ...11:02
cbx33and also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Worksheet11:02
ograbut that will mean we'd raise the costs11:02
cbx33ogra, 1 cd is best I feel11:02
cbx33for what it's worth11:03
cbx33:p11:03
ograwell, we're always short on space with one11:03
cbx33ogra, we did talk about an Additional cd11:03
ograright ... for languages ...11:03
cbx33but then RichEd even if we did have several wallpapers11:03
ograbut we currently ship english only anyway11:03
cbx33we couldn't have a default one11:03
willvdlanyone know the relevant cost difference of 1 DVD vs 2 CDs?11:04
RichEdwhat about a install CD and an add-on CD ... whwre install is all you really need and add-on is optional11:04
RichEd*whwre11:04
cbx33RichEd, it is an option11:04
PWillCDs are the best option. we can't assume everyone has a DVD-ROM11:04
ograwillvdl, 2 CDs will be significantly more expensive to ship11:04
ograi bet they are the same price for pressing 11:05
willvdltrue11:05
ograor at least a similar price11:05
=== FunnyLookinHat [n=funnyloo@ip67-155-75-49.z75-155-67.customer.algx.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
RichEdso shippit can go with 1 x Install CD, add-on is only by request, or as a optional download after install.11:05
cbx33RichEd, but if it's a download11:05
willvdlJust thinking of my target audience11:05
cbx33just make them packages in universe11:05
RichEdwas about to say that :)11:05
ograwould you want to have to download a full 600MB iso to get two language packs ? 11:05
cbx33ogra, my point exactly11:05
ograyep11:06
cbx33i still think 1 cd is best11:06
cbx33our real goal is to get rid of kde11:06
ogramy lag is making my discussion points a bit pointless :)11:06
cbx33so we can have the extra 80-100Mb11:06
RichEda value-add package ... with pick & chose options for selective download ?11:06
LaserJocktime to move on?11:06
cbx33yes11:06
ograyeah11:06
PWillright back...11:06
cbx33a quick on from me on Sounds11:06
ograshoot11:06
cbx33sabdfl sent a great mail to the artwork mailing list11:06
ograyes, looks like you'll make the next generation of desktp sounds ;)11:07
cbx33ogra, :D11:07
cbx33bimberi sent me sound playground sounds11:07
cbx33which I will add to make an edubuntu specific sound11:07
cbx33the list has been narrowed down11:07
ogra:))11:07
cbx33anyone wanting more info ping me11:07
RichEdping11:07
cbx33www.progbox.co.uk/finals11:08
willvdlcan't wait to hear them :)11:08
PWilli don't so much like the playgriund sounds11:08
cbx33tbh I havn't heard them11:08
ograPWill, they wont be standalone11:08
cbx33but I'm sure they will be fine11:08
ograimagine them mixed with the sounds cbx33 made11:09
cbx33RichEd, we're going to develop 6,7,811:09
RichEdokay11:09
PWilli know, ogra. the just seem... i don't know11:09
ograjust a bit background giggling of childs :)11:09
ogra(the human factor ;) )11:09
PWillmeh. we'll see once they're mixed11:09
cbx33any comments etc please please mail me11:09
cbx33petesavage@ubuntu.com11:09
cbx33i can keep track of things then11:09
=== RichEd hopes the child & playground sounds will not attract dirty old men with sweeties
LaserJockheh, I seriously doubt it11:10
ograRichEd, if we havent already we wont get them now ...11:10
willvdlif they have mad ubuntu skills then let em11:10
RichEdsemi-serious comment ... JaneW gest some strange comments when she posts pics of our kids in the bath on her blog :(11:10
PWillew11:10
cbx33RichEd, I was surprised she did that11:10
ograthats the world ... shit happens11:10
=== cbx33 washs ogra's mouth out with soap :p
RichEdcbx33: not without careful thinking now she doesn't11:11
willvdlRichEd, comments from Seffers?11:11
RichEdSeffers ?11:11
cbx33are we done on artwork?11:11
willvdlSouth Africans11:11
ograi think so11:11
RichEdyep ... done ...11:11
ogracommunity/management:11:12
cbx33ogra, rodarvus, RichEd all send you all mail tomorrow11:12
=== ogra hands RichEd the mic
cbx33about our intentions for artwork photos11:12
cbx33and you guys can add anything11:12
cbx33or comment11:12
rodarvuscbx33, I wonder if Lisa is shy - she never shows up on #edubuntu :)11:12
cbx33rodarvus, she's just busy most of the time11:13
RichEdokay ... community ----11:13
RichEdhttp://www.jonobacon.org/ Jono Bacon = Canonical Community ferom 4 sept11:13
RichEdYou can have a read of this if you want to know what sort of a guy he is ...11:14
RichEdUnwrapping Learning Potential With Open Source : http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=68711:14
Riddellcbx33: ahem11:14
cbx33Riddell, ?11:14
RichEdHas some very good points ... and is a thinker ...11:14
LaserJockuh oh11:14
RichEdI have had a brief chat, and he is keen to collaborate ... needs to clear his plate from his old job first11:15
willvdlRichEd: have you read the BECTA report on OSS?11:15
RichEdnope willvdl : link ref ?11:15
cbx33willvdl, BECTA, where are you based?11:15
willvdlhard copy :(11:15
willvdlRSA11:16
willvdlbut I read everything :)11:16
cbx33ahhh11:16
RichEdpaste flood warning ... everybody stand back11:16
=== cbx33 is used to BECTA
RichEdAs Ubuntu Community Manager, my energy will be focused in a number of different areas, each a foundation for a strong Ubuntu community. This includes:11:16
RichEd    * Ensuring the wheels of the community are well oiled, and the different teams (Documentation, Art, LoCo, Marketing, Press, Accessibility etc.) can effectively work together, resolve conflict, source resources and more.11:16
RichEd    * Refine and explore methods to make the Ubuntu community as approachable as possible. I want to ensure potential contributors can get started quickly and know when, where and how to get involved easily.11:16
RichEd    * Develop processes and practises to ensure we get the most out of contributor time. Many contributors only have limited time they can dedicate to a project - we want to make sure they get the most out of that time and there are as few obstacles and red tape in the way. Happy contributors get things done and achieve doable goals - lets make this rock even more.11:16
RichEd    * To foster innovation at every level. We have so much potential to think outside the box, develop better ways of working together and new ways of delivering in each of the different teams.11:16
cbx33as I work in a UK school11:16
RichEd    * Making the Ubuntu community as inclusive as possible. The ever-growing Ubuntu community spreads across many countries, cultures and communication mediums - lets make sure that we always retain community feel and spirit.11:16
RichEd    * Measure and explore patterns in the community so we can understand it better and ensure all aspects of the community get the attention they need.11:16
willvdlow11:17
=== cbx33 just got knocked off his chair
RichEdSo there is a good identified & calculated approach ...11:17
RichEdThat's from: Goodbye OpenAdvantage, hello Canonical August 8th, 200611:17
RichEd... on his blog.11:18
willvdllike the "inclusive" bit11:18
cbx33yeh11:18
ograshould also be on planet 11:18
RichEdHe is already quite active on #canonical. I'll drag him into one of our meetings when his feet touch grourd11:18
RichEdground11:18
RichEdBased in Wolverhampton UK ...11:19
=== cbx33 had a chat with him the other day
cbx33great guy with some great visions11:19
RichEdSo cbx33 will buy him beers to make him help us11:19
ograhe'S active in #ubuntu-devel since more than a year ... and wrote the "official" ubuntu book11:19
cbx33all send your cheques now :p11:19
RichEdWeb ---------------------11:19
=== ogra lost his cheque book
RichEdMatt Nuzum = Canonical Webmaster11:19
willvdlogra, oooh. he writes well11:19
RichEdI am brokering all the back-end management handover from Highvoltage to Matt11:20
=== imbrandon [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
RichEdi.e. get Higvoltage off the nuts & bolts and up the value stack11:20
ograRichEd, as i understood it, hes do the tech part like drupal maintenance etc, but we keep the responsibility for content management ?11:20
RichEdexactly ...11:21
cbx33:)11:21
cbx33great11:21
ogragood :)11:21
RichEdwe do the content, he makes sure it is served11:21
cbx33sounds like we're almost done11:21
ograwe should focus on getting a content maintenance team going until release11:21
RichEdor put another way  ... we know our audience ... he knows the machine11:21
cbx33ogra, ++11:21
LaserJockogra: yep11:22
ograbut w'll need more people11:22
RichEdNow some business level stuff, to give you an idea of what's on the horizon11:22
ogravereybody in the community is currently having at least two duties ... i guess thats enough11:22
RichEd(last topic before I am done)11:22
ograwe need new flesh ! 11:22
=== RichEd thinks he hears a german cannibal
ograhaha11:23
LaserJockhehe11:23
RichEdUbuntu is making some serious inroads ... and we are going to be pulled along in the slipstream. 11:23
ograas long as you dont think you hear an austrian dictator while i speak, all is fine :)11:23
cbx33RichEd, ++11:23
cbx33my brother in law just said... How can I help11:24
RichEdSome cut & paste from a slarge enquiry from ex-USSR country:11:24
RichEd*large11:24
RichEdWe are in the short list11:24
RichEd> After 1 year testing of Fedora, decided recently to stick11:24
RichEd> to one of commercial and well-known distributions:11:24
RichEd> Suse, Mandriva and Ubuntu.11:24
RichEd> The indicative number of machines distributed in 2,30011:24
=== willvdl stands back
RichEd> public schools and running on Linux by the end of 200811:24
RichEd> is 30,000.11:24
cbx33nice11:25
RichEdThey want to open negotiations for:11:25
RichEd> 3 year contract with attractive conditions for upgrade11:25
RichEd> and technical support, that might include FLOSS center,11:25
RichEd> mirror download sites.11:25
cbx33right guys if we're nearing the end I'm gonna have to shut up shop, currently at the inlaws....need to get back and sleep....get my 5 hours in :p11:25
RichEdthis will need a gearing up by Canonical support ... as in the next one ...11:26
=== willvdl remebers getting tuXlab enquiry from Kazakstan
RichEd* Intel relationship getting more intimate11:26
RichEdCanonical NDAs here so I can't give much specifics, but can say:11:26
cbx33RichEd, remember my idea about live support :p11:26
RichEdokay cbx33 ... in your email ?11:26
RichEd1. Intel education tools11:26
RichEd- currently running on Red Hat and SUSE11:26
RichEd- they are looking to get this running on Edubuntu11:26
RichEd- will use their own developers11:26
RichEd- may need direction from us at times11:26
cbx33possibly11:26
ograintel -> *sigh*11:26
cbx33but if not shout and I'll mail you again11:27
RichEdwhy the sigh oliver ?11:27
cbx33amd :D11:27
RichEdcbx33: okay will check11:27
cbx33right guys I'm sorry I'm really gonna have to go, unless there is anything else?11:27
ograRichEd, pairing up more with intel will drag me out of edubuntu stuff ... but thats not related to your post ... i thought it was about hardware stuff :)11:27
RichEdnope you are released ...11:27
cbx33nn guys11:28
willvdlciao11:28
ograthey are eager to have hwdb integrated with their dazabase11:28
ograthat will take a fair amount of my edgy+1 devtime i guess11:28
RichEdogra : for this they have their own crew ... they think they can manage without us,11:28
ograRichEd, they cant do the ubuntu side 11:28
ograand i wrote that ...11:28
willvdlhmmm, Intel Tech to the Future is *everywhere11:28
willvdlTeach rather11:28
ograbut getting edu tools from them is a great thing indeed :)11:29
RichEdnope, but they will do their side ... and the relationship is such that they may provide people if they need to dip in into our side11:29
RichEdogra: NDA covers Canonical employees ... will forward you a mail11:29
ograRichEd, right ... but i will still be needed ... we met up in paris and spoke about it 11:29
ograthanks 11:30
RichEdIntel have a vested interest in helping Ubuntu get onto OEM vs Microsoft ... around margins on chips11:30
RichEd(shhhhh ... wink)11:30
ograyep11:30
ogramaxalt said that very public in his talk in paris ;)11:31
ograno "shhh" needed ;)11:31
ogra(maxalt is intel engineer)11:31
RichEdSo they are not helping us out of social godness, but out of margin concerns ... and this fits with their target growth areas for OEM shops 11:31
RichEdAisia, LAMs, Vietnam, Indid etc.11:32
RichEdso next paste:11:32
RichEd2. Intel has introduced us to their Premier Partner in Vietnam11:32
RichEd- want to formalise an Ubuntu OEM offering & Edubuntu for Education11:32
RichEd> this company has 100 in-house developers writing software11:32
RichEd> applications on OSS to sell in bundle with the PCs and11:32
RichEd> with corporate services11:32
ogranice !11:32
RichEd^^^ Indiz = India11:32
willvdlhuuuge11:32
RichEdBut we need then to help Canonical develope & add new services11:33
ograyep, ubuntu has 18 fulltime developers11:33
RichEdTo wrap the deal, we need to provide:11:33
RichEdIntel Training  - level 111:33
RichEdVAR Training    - level 111:33
RichEdBackEnd Support - level 211:33
RichEdSome of this exists at Canonical Paid Support in Montreal e.g. Ubuntu server support11:33
RichEdWe'll need to help them add Edubuntu to this, LTSP server & desktop support &* training11:33
ograyup11:33
RichEdSo willvdl & I will meet with Hilton & Jonathan for informal discussions next week ...11:34
RichEdSee what we can do with the tuxLabs support model & staff ...11:34
willvdlInkululeku(o)11:34
RichEdVery much an idea in theory, but that looks like our easiest route forwards11:34
RichEdUnless someone else can point me to a base of Edubuntu support with in the clasroom experince ?11:35
RichEdIdeas welcome.11:35
willvdlI think their next update will be full Edgy11:35
ograwillvdl, you mean tuxlabs ? 11:36
willvdlThere are a few RichEd. Not many as large as tuxlabs but they are there11:36
willvdlogra, yip11:36
RichEd--- so that is all from me for now --- apart from 1 directive from my meeting with Mark:11:36
ograwell, they will wait for localdev support .. that was the reason they didnt switch earlier i was told11:36
RichEdMark: I expect you to make Edubuntu the dominant education Linux within 12 months.11:37
ograwe *are* the dominant edu distor 11:37
ogra*distro11:37
RichEdRichEd: and I expect all of you here to help me.11:37
ograhe doest get that :)11:37
rodarvus:)11:37
willvdlthe burninastro11:38
rodarvusRichEd, was that a recursive question? :)11:38
ograshow me *one* other edu distro in the http://distrowatch.com/ top 10011:38
RichEdI don't think he is satisfied with 60:30:15:511:38
ograwe're on place 6011:38
RichEdI think he wants 90:6:3:211:38
ograeither debian-edu, nor skole or K12 are even listed11:38
PWillgo to go, guys11:38
PWilladios11:38
willvdlciao11:38
ogra*neither11:39
RichEdcheers ... PWill 11:39
willvdlfolks, the true mark of success is case studies11:39
willvdlworking implimentations with solid outcomes11:39
RichEdwillvdl: agreed ...11:39
RichEdhe wants usage majority, not ratings11:40
ograi know that distrowatch is nonsense, but its a rough indicator for being known 11:40
rodarvussome linux distributions on distrowatch are quite directed to a small audience, but nonetheless, have many usrs11:40
rodarvususers11:40
RichEdMark is also looking at list traffic volume11:40
ograright, thats poor on the edubuntu lists11:40
RichEdLIST - k12osn : 30-50 mails a day11:40
rodarvustake 'kurumin' for example. is a brazilian spin-off of Knoppix, with added hardware support for most common brazilian machines + non-free stuff.11:40
rodarvusits *crap*, but due to the nature of its software, its the most used linux distribution on the government11:41
RichEdLIST - ubuntu-dev : 30-50 mails a month11:41
willvdlrodarvus, interesting11:41
ograedgy will change a lot here 11:41
willvdlend-to-end solution type thing?11:41
rodarvusand I doubt any of you ever heard about kurumin :11:41
rodarvus:)11:41
ograits the first release from which *i* say it can face k1211:41
rodarvuswillvdl, yes, basically this11:41
willvdlWe have Novell doing the same thing here with Suse11:42
RichEdrodarvus: ^recursive question^ god hels those who help themslves :)11:42
RichEd*helps11:42
willvdlRichEd: does he help you to spell?11:42
RichEdno ... i'm on my own for that11:42
willvdl:P11:43
ograwe're at more than 90 mins now ...11:43
willvdlokie, almost pumpkin time11:43
ograwha about wrapping up ?11:43
RichEdfinal word : to tie it all together guys ...11:43
RichEdif we get the big partner deals like the ones above, where we are preloaded, or selected for a country wide deployment11:44
RichEdwe'll make the news and the numbers11:44
RichEdand ubuntu is getting the respect and the foot in the door11:44
RichEdwe just need to deliver our specialised product11:44
RichEdor shoudl i say carry on delivering11:44
ograright :)11:44
willvdl:)11:45
RichEdI am very exicited ... more so every week11:45
RichEdThe future is bright and the future in Ubuntu11:45
ogra:)11:45
=== rodarvus cheers
RichEdand today is now done for me ... thanks to all11:45
ograthanks 11:45
rodarvusthanks11:45
ogrameeting ends here -------------------------------------------------------11:45
willvdlciao 11:46
ograciao11:46
=== ogra wonders off
willvdlbon nuit11:46
RichEdi'll send intel mail to the canonical core ... read, but don't respond unless therough me :) pliss11:46
RichEd<- back to edubuntu11:46
ograheh, sure :)11:46
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