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| doko | infinity, cprov: (I know, weekend ...) please requeue libgtk-java on all archs | 12:54 |
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| raphink | anyone knows if it's possible to assign a value to a varible in make using an external command ? | 02:01 |
| raphink | e.g. | 02:01 |
| raphink | for image in seq -w 01 36 | 02:01 |
| raphink | doesn't work | 02:01 |
| crimsun | you need to quote the seq command | 02:02 |
| crimsun | $(seq -w 01 36) | 02:02 |
| raphink | doesn't work either | 02:02 |
| _ion | seq -w 01 36 | while read image; do \ | 02:02 |
| raphink | for image in $(seq -w 01 36) | 02:03 |
| raphink | echo $(image) | 02:03 |
| raphink | endfor | 02:03 |
| raphink | that won't work | 02:03 |
| _ion | stuff with $$image | 02:03 |
| raphink | hmm _ion in make? | 02:03 |
| _ion | _Each_ line is interpreted separately with sh, unless they're merged with the \ char. Also you need to type $$ in the Makefile to give $ to the shell. | 02:04 |
| raphink | ah | 02:05 |
| _ion | Also i prefer 'seq ... | while read foo' instead of 'for foo in $(seq ...)' because it allows the length of the sequence to be arbitrary without any concern for memory usage. | 02:05 |
| raphink | ok | 02:06 |
| raphink | doesn't seem to work though | 02:06 |
| raphink | :s | 02:06 |
| raphink | for some reason | 02:06 |
| raphink | oh wait yes it does :) | 02:07 |
| raphink | sorry | 02:07 |
| raphink | thanks much _ion that helps a lot :) | 02:07 |
| _ion | Anyway, http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/example-Makefile | 02:09 |
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| bddebian | Howdy | 02:11 |
| _ion | Howdy-how. | 02:11 |
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| raphink | woot | 02:17 |
| bddebian | Heya raphink | 02:18 |
| raphink | hi bddebian :) | 02:18 |
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| lastnode | imbrandon, ping? | 03:31 |
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| netdur | people with compiz respo, got libvte upgrade, it broke synaptic... this bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vte/+bug/56862 | 04:05 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 56862 in vte "synaptic requires libvte.so.4, but upgrade of libvte removes it" [Medium,Unconfirmed] | 04:06 |
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| ajmitch | ah, so it is the fault of 3rd party repositories | 04:07 |
| netdur | gonna comment | 04:13 |
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| ajmitch | I'm rejecting anyway | 04:14 |
| netdur | okay | 04:15 |
| DShepherd | hey edgy users.. the X problem that was happening has it been fixed? | 04:15 |
| ajmitch | DShepherd: not nearly enough info | 04:15 |
| DShepherd | ajmitch: ok.. | 04:16 |
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| lastnode | infinity, ping? | 04:17 |
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| Keybuk | File 'option.c' | 04:33 |
| Keybuk | Lines executed:100.00% of 127 | 04:33 |
| Keybuk | option.c:creating 'option.c.gcov' | 04:33 |
| Keybuk | yay test cases | 04:33 |
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| bddebian | Heya Keybuk | 04:34 |
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| Keybuk | :) | 04:37 |
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| robertj | Keybuk: has there been any discussion about attempting to automating package rebuilds for simple backports? | 04:44 |
| Keybuk | how do you mean? | 04:47 |
| robertj | Keybuk: lots of games have simple & relatively stable deps, so backporting is a snap | 04:48 |
| robertj | the way I currently do it now is I take my sources.list %s/dapper/edgy, update, apt-get src foo, change sources list back & update again, then do the dpkg-buildpackage | 04:49 |
| Keybuk | we have a theoretical backports acrhive | 04:49 |
| robertj | ahh? | 04:49 |
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| robertj | "theoretical backports" archive doesn't google for me | 04:52 |
| bddebian | heh | 04:54 |
| lastnode | imbrandon, ping? | 05:08 |
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| bluefoxicy | Anyone know when mdz is usually around | 05:20 |
| bluefoxicy | side question, is anyone from the kernel team here | 05:20 |
| imbrandon | lastnode: pong | 05:21 |
| sbalneav | I'm trying to debug some ltsp localdev stuff, so I've ugraded an edubuntu box to edgy. Now my gnome-panel consumes 70% of my cpu :) strace shows it to be stuck in a polling loop. This a known issue that anyone's aware of? | 05:21 |
| lastnode | imbrandon, got a sec? | 05:21 |
| imbrandon | bluefoxicy: mdz is usaly arround after 7am london time or there abouts | 05:22 |
| imbrandon | lastnode: sure | 05:22 |
| bddebian | What the heck is diff --git in .diff files in debian/patches? | 05:22 |
| lastnode | imbrandon, #taprobane? Ryan is there too, that's why | 05:22 |
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| bluefoxicy | 2am hm | 05:23 |
| bluefoxicy | imbrandon: any idea if I should ask anyone else about switching the name of the 386 kernel? | 05:24 |
| mjg59 | bluefoxicy: ? | 05:24 |
| bluefoxicy | I saw mdz talking about benchmarking the 386 vs 686 kernels and possibly dropping the other kernels since they offer no performance increase | 05:24 |
| bluefoxicy | and I looked, indeed, CONFIG_M486=Y; these are not i386, they're i486 | 05:25 |
| mjg59 | Right | 05:25 |
| imbrandon | probably the kernel team i would imagine benc mjg59 mdz etc in -kernel | 05:25 |
| mjg59 | The fact that it's ever been called 386 is for historical reasons | 05:25 |
| bluefoxicy | and i386 ubuntu is built with i486 instructions to boot. | 05:25 |
| bluefoxicy | (cmpxchg ftw) | 05:25 |
| mjg59 | We've never supported 386 | 05:25 |
| mjg59 | Nor has Debian since 3.0 | 05:25 |
| imbrandon | i386 is historical i think | 05:25 |
| bluefoxicy | Yes. | 05:25 |
| bluefoxicy | I don't think it would hurt to call the kernel linux-image-*-486 | 05:26 |
| mjg59 | The standard kernel will be build for 586 SMP | 05:26 |
| bluefoxicy | renaming the distro i486 would go ARGHFACYOUH@#( probably | 05:26 |
| mjg59 | The alternative kernel will be built for 486 UP | 05:26 |
| mjg59 | The *86 names will be dropped | 05:26 |
| bluefoxicy | you're going to move to 586? o.o | 05:26 |
| mjg59 | The standard kernel can't be 686 | 05:27 |
| bluefoxicy | I know | 05:27 |
| mjg59 | And there's approximately no performance difference | 05:27 |
| imbrandon | not from userland apps anyhow | 05:27 |
| bluefoxicy | There's no compelling reason to move to 586 that I can see; mdz and benc illustrated this with benchmarks. | 05:27 |
| imbrandon | exactly | 05:27 |
| bluefoxicy | I won't protest a move to 586 or 686 mind you | 05:28 |
| bluefoxicy | I'm just surprised ;P | 05:28 |
| imbrandon | now the x86 and x86_64 will still need to be seperated i think but thats a whole nother ball game | 05:28 |
| bluefoxicy | of course | 05:28 |
| bluefoxicy | USB printing breaks with the x86_64 kernel; and it can't be built with a fallback to x86 | 05:28 |
| mjg59 | I doubt there are any 486 systems that can actually usefully run Ubuntu | 05:29 |
| bluefoxicy | (which would be a waste of time) | 05:29 |
| mjg59 | The USB printing thing is just a bug | 05:29 |
| imbrandon | bluefoxicy: realy ? usb printing worked afaik on mine | 05:29 |
| imbrandon | i need to check that | 05:29 |
| bluefoxicy | imbrandon: benc said something about it. | 05:29 |
| bddebian | Anyone? How do I properly generate a .diff file for a patching system using them? I've never heard of --git and it doesn't even appear valid? | 05:29 |
| bluefoxicy | If it was fixed bravo, offer the x86_64 one for x86 | 05:30 |
| imbrandon | my amd64 machine is still on breezy though so that might be part of it | 05:30 |
| bluefoxicy | imbrandon: 32-bit userland, not 64-bit. | 05:30 |
| imbrandon | its the file/web/nfs/nis server here at the house | 05:30 |
| mjg59 | bluefoxicy: Dude, x86_64 kernels are sort of missing x86 functionality | 05:30 |
| bluefoxicy | it works fine with 64-bit userland. | 05:30 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: they don't BOOT on x86; but you could run 64-bit kernel on amd64 and keep 32-bit userland (flash...) | 05:30 |
| imbrandon | ahh yea i dont have any 32bit userland stuff | 05:31 |
| mjg59 | bluefoxicy: Erm. | 05:31 |
| mjg59 | bluefoxicy: What x86_64 one are we meant to offer for x86? | 05:31 |
| mjg59 | Oh, I see what you mean | 05:31 |
| imbrandon | bluefoxicy: you can if you dont rely on dpkg , no dual arch support | 05:31 |
| mjg59 | No, that's still not acceptable | 05:31 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: you don't offer any now. BenC explains this being due to USB printing not working from 32-bit userland on 64-bit kernel. | 05:31 |
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| mjg59 | x86 userland depends on functionality that's not present in x86_64 kernels | 05:31 |
| mjg59 | Like vm86 | 05:31 |
| mjg59 | amd64 userland has workarounds for that sort of thing | 05:32 |
| bluefoxicy | hm | 05:32 |
| imbrandon | isnt that a proc^Wdesign bug | 05:32 |
| mjg59 | imbrandon: No | 05:32 |
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| === bluefoxicy has seen gentooers run complete 32-bit userlands on 64-bit kernels. | ||
| === bluefoxicy shrugs. | ||
| mjg59 | imbrandon: Supporting 64 bit, 32 bit /and/ vm86 is pretty much impossible | 05:32 |
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| mjg59 | bluefoxicy: They're not using vm86 | 05:32 |
| bluefoxicy | It's not within reach right now and not important. | 05:32 |
| bluefoxicy | what is vm86 | 05:32 |
| imbrandon | bluefoxicy: me also thats why i'm confused i guess | 05:33 |
| mjg59 | Semi-virtualised x86 | 05:33 |
| imbrandon | infact i have 32bit userland in a chroot on sid | 05:33 |
| bluefoxicy | vmware? | 05:33 |
| imbrandon | and 64bit everything else | 05:33 |
| mjg59 | It lets applications run in something that looks like real mode under a protected mode OS | 05:33 |
| bluefoxicy | oh what | 05:33 |
| mjg59 | Basically a compatibility kludge | 05:33 |
| bluefoxicy | oh | 05:33 |
| bluefoxicy | for dosemu | 05:33 |
| mjg59 | A somewhat important compatibility kludge, but still | 05:33 |
| mjg59 | On x86_64 kernels, we need to execute code in an x86 emulator instead | 05:34 |
| mjg59 | That works somewhat less well | 05:34 |
| bluefoxicy | so you're talking about dosemu and wine, right? :P | 05:34 |
| mjg59 | No | 05:34 |
| bluefoxicy | then what | 05:34 |
| mjg59 | vbetool, usplash, X... | 05:34 |
| bluefoxicy | o.O | 05:35 |
| bluefoxicy | X is somehow tied to real mode? | 05:35 |
| mjg59 | Various chunks of X make int10 calls | 05:35 |
| bluefoxicy | I don't remember my interrupt tables. | 05:35 |
| mjg59 | With the potential to fall back to the aforementioned x86 emulator | 05:35 |
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| bluefoxicy | mjg59: is that a software interrupt to trigger another part of X? | 05:36 |
| === bluefoxicy guesses they set up a jump table... it's been so long since he's thought about this stuff. | ||
| mjg59 | No, it calls code in the video BIOS | 05:37 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: at any rate, on the performance stuff, I've run Dapper on 350MHz AMD K6-2 192M ram systems. It's SLOW. Takes 20 minutes to get into the livecd, took 5 tries to get it to finish installing without running outta memory (eventually I hacked up X to run ubiquity straight up) | 05:38 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: the video bios contains old x86 code that can't be updated then? | 05:38 |
| bluefoxicy | (obviously it's on a hard-coded rom) | 05:38 |
| bluefoxicy | I hadn't thought of that possibility. | 05:39 |
| mjg59 | The video bios contains old x86 code that knows how to drive the graphics card, and we don't | 05:39 |
| mjg59 | And yes, the livecd will be very slow when you don't have any RAM to use as cache | 05:39 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: is there a technical reason why vm86 can't be entered from long mode? | 05:39 |
| mjg59 | Dunno | 05:40 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: actually, I kept hitting the "Select your timezone" screen and the graphical map would force me to 2000% CPU usage and the CPU maxes at 100% and becomes 20 times slower :> | 05:40 |
| mjg59 | Linux doesn't implement it, and nor does Windows | 05:40 |
| sbalneav | ah bug 52405 | 05:40 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 52405 in gnome-panel "gnome-panel eats 50% cpu for half an hour and flickers" [High,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/52405 | 05:40 |
| sbalneav | bad link in /etc/xdg/menu | 05:40 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: I'll file that under "fucking bad design" and make the comment that running an x86 video card on a SPARC or PPC sounds hard. | 05:41 |
| mjg59 | bluefoxicy: On PPC it's often impossible, but in those cases we have useful firmware to save us | 05:41 |
| mjg59 | On Sparc, we have x86emu | 05:41 |
| mjg59 | Alphas have always used x86 emulation to boot their graphics cards, anyway | 05:42 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: moving along, if you don't think Ubuntu is useful on 486 (maxes at what, 66MHz? No I think my boyfriend has a 100MHz one or such...), why build it with the 486 instruction set at all? Why not move to i586 instructions? | 05:42 |
| mjg59 | bluefoxicy: Because under some niche circumstances it might be useful | 05:43 |
| mjg59 | But not in the standard configuration | 05:43 |
| bluefoxicy | yeah. init=/usr/bin/adventure | 05:43 |
| mjg59 | Using the alternate CD, you ought to be able to produce a workable installation on a DX4 | 05:43 |
| bluefoxicy | nods. | 05:44 |
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| bluefoxicy | mjg59: So here comes the ugly question. Would such an installation be workable with GNOME and Firefox? Or, directly, can we build Firefox for i586 in theory? | 05:45 |
| bluefoxicy | (firefox, KDE, gnome, other big gigantic things...) | 05:46 |
| mjg59 | It's unlikely to be useful with GNOME, even building userspace for 586 over 486 wins you fuck all | 05:47 |
| bluefoxicy | yeah | 05:48 |
| bluefoxicy | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu686 head towards the bottom | 05:48 |
| bluefoxicy | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-i686 rather wtf. | 05:49 |
| mjg59 | Gngk. | 05:50 |
| mjg59 | Any perceived speed difference is unlikely to be due to the instruction set differences. | 05:51 |
| mjg59 | It's far more likely to be related to the rest of the crack | 05:51 |
| bluefoxicy | yeah | 05:51 |
| bluefoxicy | there's some nice gains in FP-emulation in i686 vs i386 (50% faster); but guess what? We have an FPU! :) | 05:52 |
| bluefoxicy | the rest is statistically insignificant | 05:53 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: I'm hoping to get --hash-style used everywhere in Edgy+1 | 05:53 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: also I've had various people tell me the buildd uses -Wl,-O1 everywhere, or that it only uses -Wl,-O1 in a few packages. I'd like to know which it is. | 05:54 |
| mjg59 | cmov gains you, what? 1 instruction under optimal circumstances? | 05:54 |
| bluefoxicy | cmov? | 05:54 |
| mjg59 | The useful 686 instruction | 05:54 |
| bluefoxicy | what does it do | 05:55 |
| mjg59 | It's a mov that's conditional on the previous instruction | 05:55 |
| mjg59 | Avoiding you having to do an explicit check and jmp | 05:55 |
| bluefoxicy | that sounds useful, just not ground-shakingly so. | 05:56 |
| Chipzz | [ot] http://forums.invisionpower.com/lofiversion/index.php/t199177.html [/ot] :) | 05:57 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: I'll build flac with -save-temps and scan the assembly files and give you a rough significance :P | 05:59 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: do you know anyone who has access to the buildd's setup? | 05:59 |
| bluefoxicy | I would like to know the -Wl,-O1 thing, and everyone has been giving me things based on what they "know" | 05:59 |
| bluefoxicy | but they all seem to "know" different things | 05:59 |
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| mjg59 | No clue | 06:03 |
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| bluefoxicy | cmov: 350 | 06:09 |
| bluefoxicy | lines: 175072 | 06:09 |
| bluefoxicy | percnt: .19991774812648510327 | 06:09 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: ^^^ all of the .s files gcc emits when building FLAC without assembly optimizations. 0.2% of the instructions are escaped. | 06:10 |
| bluefoxicy | (you said cmov saves you one insn right?) | 06:10 |
| mjg59 | Rather than jmc; mov; you can just do cmov | 06:11 |
| === bluefoxicy rebuilds for 485 | ||
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: when and where would be a good time to discuss changes to the linker in Edgy+1? It has to be addressed before Edgy+1 opens right? | 06:12 |
| mjg59 | Provide useful benchmarks. Write a spec. | 06:12 |
| bluefoxicy | Michael Meeks has loads of useful benchmarks. I can write a spec. | 06:13 |
| bluefoxicy | Can I ream RedHat for being scum? :< | 06:13 |
| zul | actually redhat is quite useful for some things | 06:14 |
| bluefoxicy | lines: 191382 ... 16310 extra instructions when built for 486, that's 8% reduction! | 06:15 |
| bluefoxicy | there's 860 excess lines being counted (ppc/as and ppc/gas files) ... 174212 on 686 and 190522 on 486 .. 16310 difference, 8.56% instead of 8.52% | 06:17 |
| bluefoxicy | zul: yeah, I just like to throw rocks at them | 06:17 |
| mjg59 | Wait. Are you optimising for the same processor in all cases? | 06:17 |
| mjg59 | Do bear in mind that not all instructions take the same number of cycles, and various other things | 06:17 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: the first was built with CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS "-save-temps -march=i686" and the second with "-save-temps -march=i486" | 06:18 |
| bluefoxicy | I could test for i486 with tune for i686 | 06:18 |
| mjg59 | Yes | 06:18 |
| mjg59 | That would be somewhat more sensible | 06:19 |
| bluefoxicy | zul: the linker optimization thing though basically requires a swat at RedHat | 06:19 |
| bluefoxicy | Michael Meeks came up with stuff he proposed on the binutils mailing list, after coding it, testing it, benchmarking it... then 9 months later Jakub spits out a re-hashed patch for 2 of Meeks' optimizations, and says that "the initial design was done by Ulrich Drepper; some discussion occurred with Michael Meeks, but nothing came of this and the design used is actually quite different" | 06:20 |
| bluefoxicy | and Meeks pointed out that it looked like his prototype patches, but that he was too happy to see the stuff go in to quibble | 06:20 |
| bluefoxicy | and I blinked and said, "Holy SHIT, they just blatantly ripped off his stuff and claimed it was theirs!" | 06:20 |
| bluefoxicy | so yeah, I'm slightly biased at RedHat, don't mind me. | 06:21 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: 176032 ... - 860 .. 175172, 960 instruction difference. Only half a percent. | 06:25 |
| mjg59 | bluefoxicy: Right. So the big difference between the 486 and 686 is the tuning, not the instructions | 06:25 |
| mjg59 | buildds already tune for 686 | 06:26 |
| bluefoxicy | right, which brings me back to my benchmarks, which say yeah you'll get a gain on anything alike to floating point emulation, which is not much. :) | 06:26 |
| bluefoxicy | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyPlusOneToolchainRoadmap | 06:28 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: do you think it's safe to stick "get --hash-style support into our binutils via patch or upstream release; and use --hash-style=both" in Implementation? | 06:28 |
| mjg59 | bluefoxicy: It's safe to do anything in a spec | 06:29 |
| bluefoxicy | or should I write a separate spec and stick "Examine usefulness of SomeSpec" | 06:29 |
| mjg59 | Note which bits are of higher priority and more likely to work | 06:29 |
| bluefoxicy | nods | 06:29 |
| bluefoxicy | I would love to see -Bdirect linking but it's not going to happen, there's maintenance issues with it (it breaks if you build glibc with it!) and some minor hit/miss issues (once in a while it breaks something... it also exposes bugs in stuff once in a while), which is an immediate no. | 06:30 |
| bluefoxicy | Drepper is doing a good job of making sure it dies too. It would threaten the usefulness of prelink, after all. | 06:31 |
| Chipzz | bluefoxicy: with all the quarrel between redhat and novell about xen lately, it surprises me novell didn't fire back with that one | 06:43 |
| bluefoxicy | Chipzz: you saw that? | 06:44 |
| bluefoxicy | yeah Meeks is a novel employee, I'd figure if they took notice they'd be like "AND YOU ARE A BUNCH OF THIEVES AU*#*" and we could all get the popcorn. | 06:44 |
| Chipzz | bluefoxicy: if redhat ripped off suse with that gcc patch | 06:44 |
| Chipzz | given the amounts of bad words form redhat about xen | 06:45 |
| bluefoxicy | http://sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2006-06/msg00095.html second paragraph; http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2006-01/msg00171.html and http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2006-01/msg00024.html being meeks. | 06:45 |
| imbrandon | suse just needs to buy redhat and desolve them ;) | 06:46 |
| Chipzz | heh | 06:46 |
| bluefoxicy | http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2005-10/msg00436.html "Sorry to mail you directly Ulrich - but don't know where glibc /development cogitation occurs." | 06:46 |
| imbrandon | speaking of suse /me needs to look at porting sax2 to ubuntu | 06:46 |
| bluefoxicy | anyway does anyone want to keep talking politics or is there a useful topic to pick up? | 06:47 |
| bluefoxicy | politics are fine with me; especially when RedHat's mascot is Carmen Sandiego :D | 06:47 |
| imbrandon | lol i've had enough politics myself | 06:48 |
| mjg59 | OH ARGH THIS IS ALL SO HORRIBLE | 06:48 |
| imbrandon | ? | 06:48 |
| mjg59 | Bluez makes me sad | 06:49 |
| imbrandon | heh never had a use for it so never touched it | 06:50 |
| bddebian | Gnight peoples | 06:50 |
| imbrandon | gnight bddebian | 06:50 |
| mjg59 | You are lost in a twisty maze of typedefs, all different | 06:50 |
| bluefoxicy | lol | 06:53 |
| bluefoxicy | mjg59: what should I do with the psychotic stuff? | 06:54 |
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| bluefoxicy | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyPlusOneToolchainRoadmap updated btw | 06:55 |
| mjg59 | bluefoxicy: I recommend seeing a medical professional. The year of med school I have doesn't cover mental disorders. | 06:55 |
| bluefoxicy | lol | 06:55 |
| bluefoxicy | no I mean specs that are not likely to ever be carried out | 06:55 |
| mjg59 | Oh | 06:55 |
| mjg59 | I wouldn't bother mentioning them | 06:56 |
| bluefoxicy | heh | 06:56 |
| bluefoxicy | I've got a set that defines auditing/configuration/documentation/hardened kernel/source code auditing/hardened toolchain/vulnerability response as an organizational structure of the security team; basically I tried to mimic Hardened Gentoo | 06:58 |
| bluefoxicy | and I'm not sure if it's ACTUALLY worth trying to make happen or if I should just sit on it | 06:58 |
| imbrandon | zul: ping , still alive ? | 06:58 |
| bluefoxicy | the security team already does source code auditing and vulnerability response, AFAIK | 06:59 |
| imbrandon | Miguel de Icaza | 07:01 |
| imbrandon | gah i hate this keymap | 07:02 |
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| kylem | 6 | 07:04 |
| === bluefoxicy yawns | ||
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| === nixternal whispers konvo | ||
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| === bluefoxicy munches pizza and looks an at article he's writing. | ||
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| bluefoxicy | whew. 16 paragraphs. | 08:01 |
| bluefoxicy | (my biggest one was 24; the prelink one was 15) | 08:01 |
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| imbrandon | heh, making a book bluefoxicy | 08:06 |
| imbrandon | just teasin | 08:06 |
| bluefoxicy | imbrandon: just expanding my portfolio. | 08:06 |
| imbrandon | more productive than me i guess, i'm just photoshopin my gotchi whil i wait on kde4 to finish up ( likely to be waiting a while ) | 08:07 |
| bluefoxicy | I'm learning from a couple gentoo guides and trying to persuade the LWN.net guys to let me send a series of 3 articles up (for a nominal price, of course-- this is going to pay for my Nintendo Wii) on some janitorial development tasks | 08:07 |
| imbrandon | heh nice | 08:07 |
| bluefoxicy | the first article fired off removing executable stacks; I spent a few days doing a number of these. | 08:07 |
| imbrandon | yea i read a little about the gcc linking before you talked about it, was kinda funy i ran accross it twice in 2 days | 08:08 |
| bluefoxicy | I also want to get in fixing code to compile PIC when it doesn't want to (how I'm going to make an ARTICLE about that I have NO idea; it's basically "do not use %ebx when doing assembly"); and removing ELF .text relocations (I can make a full article on this; the security considerations are amusing too) | 08:09 |
| bluefoxicy | actually I can probably do the PIC thing | 08:09 |
| imbrandon | heh | 08:10 |
| bluefoxicy | instead of using registers you can declare variables and have gcc use them; I should probably explain the syntax. | 08:10 |
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| bluefoxicy | obviously the readers will include people who broke the shit in the first place; I understand LWN's audience is technically adept, but I'm CLEARLY discussing something they NEED to know. :> | 08:11 |
| === bluefoxicy fixed the textrel in SDL the other day; Gentoo has had a patch for it forever though, so use theirs. | ||
| imbrandon | ;) | 08:12 |
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| imbrandon | moins jdub | 08:14 |
| jdub | yo | 08:14 |
| jdub | pants off | 08:14 |
| imbrandon | err i guess afternoon for you ;) | 08:14 |
| jdub | word to yo momma | 08:14 |
| jdub | <- back from paintball | 08:15 |
| imbrandon | heh fun, i love paintball | 08:15 |
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| bluefoxicy | pants off wtf? | 08:16 |
| bluefoxicy | this isn't #mutual-m.... wait, this place is full of computer nerds. | 08:17 |
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| lastnode | imbrandon, ping? | 08:46 |
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| pygi | hey hey pitti | 09:44 |
| Hobbsee | hi pitti | 09:45 |
| pitti | hey pygi | 09:46 |
| pitti | hi Hobbsee | 09:46 |
| Hobbsee | :) | 09:47 |
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| pygi | pitti, whenever you feel ready to burn cd with k3b without cdrecord :) | 09:48 |
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| pygi | rather one day when it's not weekend :) | 09:48 |
| pitti | pygi: heh, I have never used k3b :) | 09:51 |
| pitti | pygi: I had used a simple cdrecord alias for years, and then nautilus-cd-burner for the sake of dogfooding | 09:52 |
| pygi | pitti, ah,oki :) | 09:52 |
| pitti | yes, and right now I'm just preparing my laptop for the sprint and pack my stuff | 09:53 |
| pygi | :) | 09:55 |
| imbrandon | moins pitti | 09:57 |
| imbrandon | and pygi ;) | 09:57 |
| pygi | hey imbrandon | 09:57 |
| pygi | imbrandon, ll eat you, you know that, right? | 09:58 |
| pygi | and you know why,also :P | 09:58 |
| imbrandon | heh , sorry benn slackin | 09:58 |
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| imbrandon | i should get to that tonight | 09:58 |
| pygi | imbrandon, I hope :) | 09:58 |
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| Goshawk | hi, why the file /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh is part of lsb-base in ubuntu ( http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin//search_contents.pl?version=edgy&arch=amd64&case=insensitive&word=lsb-base&searchmode=filelist ) while in debian it's part of the package usplash? ( http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=usplash&version=unstable&arch=amd64 ) | 10:32 |
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| doko | pitti: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3935558/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.dpkg_1.13.22ubuntu6_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz | 10:50 |
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| pitti | doko: thanks | 10:58 |
| pitti | doko: something to hack on in the train tomorrow :) | 10:58 |
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| Tonio_ | hi | 11:20 |
| _ion | Hola. | 11:20 |
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| doko | infinity, cprov-afk: please requeue cairo-java on sparc | 11:27 |
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| sladen | "We also believe in proper law enforcement as cyclists are much more likely to be victims, rather than perpetrators, of bad road use." | 12:01 |
| sladen | "We also believe in proper law enforcement as cyclists are much more likely to be victims, rather than perpetrators, of bad road use." | 12:01 |
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| \sh | moins | 01:00 |
| imbrandon | heya \sh | 01:00 |
| pygi | hey \sh | 01:00 |
| irvin | hey \sh | 01:01 |
| cprov-afk | doko: done | 01:04 |
| === \sh needs some help in debugging a weird grub problem... | ||
| doko | cprov-afk: thanks | 01:04 |
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| _ion | Re: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LibAtaForAtaDisks; don't v1 swap partitions have UUIDs as well? Why aren't they listed in /dev/disk/by-uuid? | 02:15 |
| sladen | nice. 2.6.17 crashes if you insert an PCMCIA IDE disk | 02:19 |
| _ion | keybuk: Thoughts? | 02:20 |
| _ion | Whoops, he isn't online. | 02:21 |
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| lastnode | anyone used the httplib python module here before? | 02:53 |
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| _ion | keybuk: Any thoughts? 151543 < _ion> Re: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LibAtaForAtaDisks; don't v1 swap partitions have UUIDs as well? Why aren't they listed in /dev/disk/by-uuid? | 03:16 |
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| Keybuk | _ion: ever tried activating a v1 swap partition? :) | 03:19 |
| Keybuk | you'd have to patch the kernel to support them again | 03:19 |
| _ion | keybuk: Isn't v1 exactly what is used currently? :-) | 03:20 |
| _ion | v0 is the old swap format. | 03:20 |
| Keybuk | err, yes | 03:21 |
| Keybuk | sorry | 03:21 |
| === zyga learns about swap partitions having a format :) | ||
| Keybuk | in that case, yes v1 swap partitions may have UUIDs | 03:21 |
| Keybuk | and if they do, they will show up in /dev/disk/by-uuid | 03:21 |
| Keybuk | note *may* ... the installer never used to set one | 03:22 |
| _ion | % dd if=/dev/zero of=swap bs=1M count=2; mkswap swap | 03:22 |
| _ion | no label, UUID=d1937c2d-9b46-4675-8eef-159721d50d35 | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | one of the things that the uuid conversion does is add a UUID to any swap partition that's missing one | 03:22 |
| _ion | Seems like a UUID is generated by default. | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | right, by mkswap | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | d-i doesn't use mkswap :) | 03:22 |
| _ion | Oh, okay. :-) | 03:22 |
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| Keybuk | syndicate scott% cat /proc/swaps | 03:23 |
| Keybuk | Filename Type Size Used Priority | 03:23 |
| Keybuk | /dev/hda5 partition 1622524 0 -1 | 03:23 |
| Keybuk | syndicate scott% udevinfo -qsymlink -nhda5 | 03:23 |
| Keybuk | disk/by-id/ata-HTS548040M9AT00_MRL242L2HA7L9B-part5 disk/by-path/pci-0000:00:10.0-ide-0:0-part5 disk/by-uuid/49fbf0dc-412a-4a8b-8469-6fa41cf9b78a | 03:23 |
| _ion | How to add an UUID to a swap partition by hand? | 03:23 |
| Keybuk | uuidgen | perl -ne 's/-//g;printf "%c",hex $1 while(/(..)/g)' dd conv=notrunc "of=$DEV" obs=1 seek=1036 | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | (replace $DEV) | 03:24 |
| _ion | Thanks. | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | err | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | uuidgen | perl -ne 's/-//g;printf "%c",hex $1 while(/(..)/g)' | dd conv=notrunc "of=$DEV" obs=1 seek=1036 | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | :p | 03:24 |
| _ion | Is the edgy UUID conversion code available from somewhere? | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | /var/lib/dpkg/info/volumeid.postinst | 03:26 |
| _ion | Thanks again. :-) | 03:26 |
| _ion | keybuk: Btw, the perl code in a slighty shorter (and one might say clearer) form: s/-//g;chomp;print pack("H*",$_) | 03:50 |
| lastnode | infinity, ping? | 03:51 |
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| lastnode | imbrandon, ping? | 04:14 |
| imbrandon | pong | 04:15 |
| sladen | Keybuk: can that be added to mkswap ? | 04:16 |
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| bddebian | Howdy | 04:20 |
| Keybuk | sladen: it could I guess | 04:21 |
| bddebian | Morning Keybuk | 04:21 |
| lastnode | imbrandon, there is this insane problem with httplib and urllib - t seems to cap the data after a certain number of bytes | 04:22 |
| lastnode | returns 200 OK, but no data goes across | 04:22 |
| imbrandon | hrm ok i'm about to head out soon i'll look when i get back | 04:22 |
| lastnode | ok cool | 04:22 |
| lastnode | thanks mate | 04:22 |
| sladen | Keybuk: that would be most useful, people are more likely to use that to create swap partitions than the 'postinst' :) | 04:23 |
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| Mez | Kamion: pinh | 04:24 |
| Mez | s/pinh/ping/ | 04:24 |
| === Mez waves at Keybuk | ||
| bddebian | Whoa, heya Mez | 04:25 |
| Mez | bddebian, hello :D | 04:25 |
| sladen | Keybuk: btw, do all the other mk.* creation tools generate a UUID automatically? | 04:27 |
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| bddebian | Anyone have the patience/time to explain the 0c2a transition crap to me? | 05:00 |
| azeem | why should anybody want to explain crap to you? | 05:03 |
| Nafallo | hehe | 05:03 |
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| bddebian | azeem: Becuase I try to help? | 05:07 |
| azeem | bddebian: maybe, but calling things people put in a lot of thought "transition crap" won't help a lot | 05:08 |
| azeem | I'm sure people will gladly answer if you ask a specific question about that transition | 05:09 |
| bddebian | Did I say that their work was crap? NO. It's merely an expression. | 05:09 |
| tseng | bddebian: you did, actually | 05:10 |
| tseng | whether you think so or not | 05:10 |
| bddebian | How so? | 05:10 |
| tseng | "transition crap", pretty clear | 05:10 |
| tseng | it helps to understand that someone might interpret something you wrote differently | 05:11 |
| tseng | esp if they aren't native USians | 05:11 |
| tseng | who say crap as a manner of speech all day | 05:11 |
| bddebian | Gah, bbiam | 05:11 |
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| bddebian | OK, how about can someone please help me understand this ingenious wonderful 0c2a transitions stuff? Better? :-) | 05:47 |
| azeem | bddebian: what part did you not understand? | 05:47 |
| bddebian | Well I got the concept but now I'm not sure how to handle something like osgcal | 05:48 |
| bddebian | We did libosgcal0c2a because of the C transition | 05:48 |
| bddebian | But now Debian is using the same toolchain (I think). Do we revert back? | 05:49 |
| azeem | Debian was doing c2a as well | 05:50 |
| bddebian | Aye but for osgcal I only ever see a libosgcal0 not c2a | 05:51 |
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| pygi | will be be dropping cdrecord as well, and use forked cdrtools? | 05:52 |
| bddebian | azeem: I guess what I am asking is that if I merge osgcal from Debian, I am going to have to deal with conflicts/replaces, etc for the libosgcal0c2a stuff right? | 05:53 |
| bddebian | See, it's crap to me because I'm too dumb to understand it :-) | 05:54 |
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| geser | if you merge it as libosgcal0 you must conflict/replace libosgcal0c2a | 06:00 |
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| bddebian | geser: That's what I thought, thanks | 06:00 |
| geser | it's because both packages provide the same files | 06:02 |
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| bluefoxicy | man my hard disk is cranking. | 10:59 |
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| bluefoxicy | I need review for a spec I am going to try to propose for Edgy; is it automatically in the queue, or do I need to do something | 11:26 |
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