[04:03] <lifeless> jamesh: +1
[07:57] <lifeless> jamesh: sweet. I've mailed stub to try it again
[07:58] <jamesh> lifeless: I renamed the db user it logs in as, so he might need to rerun the security setup
[08:00] <jamesh> lifeless: I think most of the existing patterns we have registered should work with the new semantics
[08:00] <lifeless> wiked. If we can prep a conversion script for the ones that dont
[08:00] <lifeless> that would be nice 
[08:01] <jamesh> well
[08:01] <jamesh> I think the ones that don't work will need to be fixed on a case by case basis
[08:02] <jamesh> to find where the tarballs actually ar
[08:02] <jamesh> e
[08:03] <jamesh> lifeless: I did up a quick spec on karma for bazaar commits: https://features.launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+spec/branch-karma
[08:03] <lifeless> jamesh: which ever approach is easier :)
[08:04] <jamesh> jelmer brought it up as a feature that'd be nice to have, but it probably isn't high priority
[08:04] <lifeless> yeah, its also viciously open to gaming
[08:05] <lifeless> one reason previous discussions foundered
[08:05] <jamesh> unlike every other place we give out karma in the system? :0
[08:05] <lifeless> yeah, unlike ;)
[08:06] <jamesh> I'd say it is a bit more useful now we've got KarmaContext
[08:06] <lifeless> whats dat? 
[08:07] <jamesh> you can say that a particular bit of karma was given out for work on the "Bazaar" product
[08:07] <jamesh> or ubuntu distro
[08:07] <jamesh> or "tickcount" ubuntu package
[08:07] <lifeless> cool
[08:07] <lifeless> one spec down, N to go
[08:07] <jamesh> the product summary page shows a list of top contributors based on the karma assigned in that context
[08:08] <jamesh> so having code contributions affect that would be nice
[08:10] <jamesh> btw, do you have any opinion on adding the extra branch attribute to product series for imports
[08:10] <lifeless> yes
[08:10] <jamesh> (related to Mark's message "ProductSeries imports")
[08:10] <lifeless> I was going to spec all the transitions that can occur, but ddaa let me off the hook :)
[08:12] <jamesh> having the two attributes seems safest
[08:12] <lifeless> my view is that having a CVS convert and a native bzr at the same time is desirable for migrators
[08:13] <jamesh> simply checking if productseries.branch is owned by vcs-imports is not that safe if the product owner can change it
[08:13] <lifeless> having the CVS conversions coupled to series is a separate discussion to having the facility to have a native bzr branch for the series.
[08:13] <lifeless> So I'd like to see the key use cases:
[08:13] <jamesh> what if the product owner sets another vcs-imports branch as the default? :)
[08:13] <lifeless> thats fine, thats their silliness
[08:13] <lifeless> I think we dont want a 'default' situation, I think we want:
[08:14] <lifeless>  - there is a importd slot, which if filled offers a 'series branch'
[08:14] <lifeless>  - there is a user branch slot, which if filled offers a 'series branch' and has higher priority than the importd slot.
[08:14] <lifeless> I dont see a use case for 'has a native branch, but the series branch is the importd one'
[08:15] <jamesh> me neither.  The above is basically what I had in mind.
[08:15] <lifeless> cool
[08:16] <jamesh> Mark isn't against having two branch references in the product series now, so we should be able to do the above
[08:18] <lifeless> yeah, I tracked that
[08:51] <SteveA> morning
[08:55] <lifeless> morning!
[09:08] <danilos> morning guys
[09:26] <sabdfl> moin moin
[09:30] <lifeless> hola
[09:32] <jamesh> danilos: there were a few rosetta questions over the weekend.  I directed the guy to post to launchpad-users, so there are a few questions that need a followup from you or carlos
[09:32] <danilos> jamesh: will do
[09:33] <jamesh> danilos: the question was about using Rosetta for document translation.  I'm not sure how well suited it is for that though.
[09:46] <danilos> jamesh: well, it depends on how can we split the document into small translatable unit
[09:46] <sivang> morning
[09:54] <carlos> morning
[09:55] <sivang> morning carlos 
[10:19] <carlos> stub: morning
[10:19] <carlos> stub: what's the status of Edgy translations?
[10:23] <sabdfl> stub: morning, could you help me optimise a query please?
[10:23] <stub> carlos: I can't get a downtime window during UK time this week due to the sprint, and I didn't get a reply back in time from mdz to run it early this morning. So I want to put out an anouncement saying 0200 UTC to 0530 UTC Tuesday
[10:23] <stub> sabdfl: If you mean the one you emailed, I'm having a look now.
[10:24] <sabdfl> yes, that's it
[10:24] <sabdfl> makes....staging.....cry.... but no wonder, it's a mess of joins and conditions, and the query planner wants to seqscan teamparticipation as a result :-)
[10:25] <stub> I'm taking a sicky today btw - feeling crap for no good reason. Will email list shortly.
[10:27] <sabdfl> ok, pls let stevea know and heal up quickly
[10:27] <sabdfl> btw, i will be in thailand in october again
[10:27] <sabdfl> for a slightly longer stay, inc weekend
[10:27] <sabdfl> i heard about these.... bars.
[10:27] <sivang> heh
[10:28] <Nafallo> :-)
[10:28] <stub> The good ones, not the sleazy ones this time?
[10:28] <stub> ;)
[10:28] <carlos> stub: ok. I guess that's good enough for us
[10:29] <sivang> stub: how good are they ? :)
[10:29] <sabdfl> stub: well, i like a bit of good sleaze
[10:29] <carlos> stub: thanks
[10:29] <sabdfl> i don't think i need another darts show though
[10:29] <sabdfl> that one burst my bubble, somewhat
[10:31] <sabdfl> kikomatic, where are you sprinting?
[10:31] <kiko> sabdfl, in london! more specifically, in the mezzanine.
[10:32] <sabdfl> novotel or k&k?
[10:32] <kiko> heh. the novotel.
[10:32] <SteveA> hi everyone
[10:32] <kiko> ello SteveA 
[10:32] <jamesh> conveniently next to the airport
[10:32] <sivang> hey SteveA 
[10:32] <kiko> jamesh, well, one airport.
[10:32] <SteveA> hi sivan.
[10:32] <sivang> jamesh: an air port hotel ? goody! ;-)
[10:32] <jamesh> :)
[10:32] <stub> sivang: I think it is all relative. I suspect they compare quite favorably to Israel ;)
[10:33] <SteveA> sivang: thanks for looking into the launchpad dependencies issues.  I'll talk with etienne about this today.
[10:33] <SteveA> lifeless: thanks for your followup about launchpad dependencies packaging.
[10:33] <jamesh> sivang: it is about an hour or so from the airport I usually arrive at though :(
[10:33] <sivang> jamesh: ah :/
[10:34] <sabdfl> jamesh: be a bad day if a flight from Perth landed at London City :-)
[10:34] <jamesh> sivang: it is near the London city airport (to the east of London), while Heathrow is to the west
[10:34] <jamesh> sabdfl: I could just imagine a 747 trying to land there ...
[10:34] <sabdfl> jamesh: that bridge would be a problem
[10:34] <jamesh> or an A380 :)
[10:35] <sabdfl> kiko: i will likely only be able to swing by tomorrow evening, en route to wiesbaden
[10:35] <sivang> stub: Well, our always have some amount of sleaziness in them, in fact, there are only sleazy ones :-)
[10:35] <kiko> sabdfl, that's fine. you and I can have a phone call to discuss our current schedule if you like.
[10:36] <sabdfl> kiko: if you have a uk mobile, pls sms me
[10:36] <kiko> sabdfl, will do one moment.
[10:37] <sivang> SteveA: no prob, one goal I see is to have those packages do as much as can be done for a new devel, to have him up and running without environment setup hassle.
[10:38] <sivang> jamesh: A380 is dual motor one right, not quatro ?
[10:38] <sabdfl> kiko: thanks
[10:39] <kiko> mosht welcome
[10:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #57063 in soyuz "Accept/Reject buttons shown even if  user has no permissions" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57063
[10:40] <sivang> kiko: mosht is a name of a fish here
[10:40] <sivang> or rather, 'moosht'
[10:41] <jamesh> sivang: 4 huge engines, two decks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A380
[10:41] <jamesh> they are huge
[10:42] <stub> sabdfl: So we don't want to list specs of inactive products?
[10:42] <sabdfl> stub: nup, there was a bug filed on that and it was fixed with me last big landing
[10:43] <sabdfl> they were leaking out through latest-specs portlets, etc
[10:43] <sivang> jamesh: ah, that the new one that said to break a world record of flying accross the world or something like that?
[10:43] <sabdfl> then you couldn't actually get to them, because traversal across inactive products is verboten
[10:43] <stub> Ahh.. that makes the decision easy ;)
[10:43] <sivang> jamesh: man , it is *huge*. Looks a bit non aerodynamic to my taste
[10:44] <sivang> anyway, I have to run, be back in about 2 hours.
[10:44] <stub> sabdfl: Should someone see a private specification if they are the owner of the product?
[10:45] <stub> (or the distro, distrorelease too I guess)
[10:45] <stub> Yech.. that is getting ugly
[10:45] <sabdfl> stub: good point, no, they should not
[10:45] <sabdfl> subscriber, assignee, drafter, approver
[10:46] <sabdfl> and members of those teams, if there's a team in any of those slots
[10:46] <sabdfl> i have to travel, chat further this afternoon.
[10:46] <kiko> where's mark headed?
[10:47] <LarstiQ> wiesbaden?
[10:47] <kiko> nope
[10:48] <LarstiQ> it's certainly not thailand
[10:48] <Nafallo> he said something about thailand ;-)
[10:48] <sivang> he also said something about bars in thailand :-)
[11:01] <jamesh> lifeless: are we having a launchpad/bazaar meeting today?
[11:03] <lifeless> AFAIK yes
[11:05] <Nafallo> are there any way to remove the calendar once you clicked it when it was new? ;-)
[11:05] <Nafallo> I don't use the thing :-P
[11:07] <SteveA> lifeless: is the meeting about now?
[11:07] <jamesh> SteveA: about 50 minutes, iirc
[11:07] <SteveA> thanks jamesh 
[11:07] <SteveA> in irssi, /go #launchpad no longer works.
[11:07] <SteveA> ah, works again
[11:08] <SteveA> strange program
[11:08] <jamesh> someone should write an IRC problem that has none of the faults of the existing ones
[11:24] <jamesh> hi mpt
[11:24] <mpt> hello jamesh 
[11:25] <jamesh> mpt: I updated the pqm-submit plugin so that it'll stop submitting your branches to bzr.dev
[11:25] <jamesh> details on the list
[11:40] <mpt> thanks jamesh 
[12:03] <lifeless> jamesh: now for the meeting ?
[12:04] <jamesh> lifeless: I guess.
[12:12] <jamesh> SteveA: bazaar meeting in #launchpad-meeting
[12:51] <lifeless> review meeting in 10
[01:00] <SteveA> lifeless: meeting on this channel?
[01:00] <lifeless> yes
[01:00] <lifeless> right here
[01:00] <lifeless> right now
[01:00] <SteveA> high five
[01:00] <lifeless> reviewer meeting time
[01:01] <lifeless> roll call
[01:01] <SteveA> hi
[01:01] <BjornT> i'm here
[01:01] <jamesh> here
[01:02] <lifeless> anyone else?
[01:02] <lifeless> spiv: ?
[01:02] <SteveA> is there anybody out there?
[01:02] <lifeless> kiko: ?
[01:02] <SteveA> kiko is sprinting
[01:02] <SteveA> so I expect no kiko
[01:02] <lifeless> ok
[01:02] <lifeless>  * Next meeting
[01:02] <lifeless>  * Queue status.
[01:03] <lifeless> 28th aug, 1100UTC ?
[01:03] <lifeless> (thats now, 1 week)
[01:03] <kiko> lifeless, about my reviews, I might do them today, in the evening. If not, I'll give them up tomorrow.
[01:03] <spiv> I'm here
[01:04] <lifeless> kiko-afk: thanks, ok.
[01:05] <SteveA> yes
[01:05] <lifeless> crrent queue size:
[01:05] <lifeless> 7 reviews +  2 bzr ones that I'm holding off on, I'll discuss with ddaa when he returns
[01:06] <lifeless> salgado has a 9 day review, kiko a 26 day one that is okish as flacoste was on leave
[01:06] <lifeless> other than that its optimal for a monday afternoon
[01:08] <SteveA> so
[01:08] <SteveA> end of meeting?
[01:09] <lifeless> yeah, I think so
[01:09] <SteveA> thanks lifeless 
[01:09] <lifeless> unless theres other business
[01:09] <lifeless> 5
[01:09] <lifeless> 4
[01:09] <lifeless> 3
[01:09] <lifeless> 2
[01:09] <lifeless> 1
[01:09] <lifeless> meeting over
[01:09] <Nafallo> fat meeting :-)
[01:09] <Nafallo> s/fat/fast/
[01:10] <SteveA> phat
[01:10] <Nafallo> lol
[01:10] <SteveA> BjornT: 20 mins?
[01:10] <lifeless> night all
[01:10] <spiv> lifeless: g'night
[01:11] <BjornT> SteveA: sure. i'm leaving now, so i should be there in 20 mins, unless there's a lot of traffic.
[01:30] <Tobias__> I have a question regarding the translation of PO files. How to force the acceptance of a string?
[01:32] <Tobias__> My problem is the string "#1%ld% complete". If it were prinf syntax, the last should be a "%%". But it is not. msgformat --check regards the "% complete" as "%c" and thus a translation "% fertig" as "%f" and claims thus that they don't match.
[01:32] <Tobias__> Any idea?
[01:34] <carlos> Tobias__: that's a bug with the application
[01:34] <carlos> we only check the strings that have the 'c-format' tag
[01:34] <carlos> and it comes from the application's .pot file
[01:35] <carlos> Tobias__: what application are we talking about?
[01:35] <Tobias__> Hmm, this is a kind of c-format string; unfortunally not the ISO standard C but seemingly the one of Microsoft Windows (its a wxWidget project).
[01:35] <Tobias__> Well, it's Xara LX.
[01:35] <carlos> hmm
[01:36] <carlos> that's really, really broken
[01:36] <carlos> Tobias__: what happens if your translation has %% there?
[01:37] <carlos> do you see it twice?
[01:37] <Tobias__> You mean in the application? I think one sees it twice, but I have to (re)check.
[01:38] <carlos> Tobias__: please, do it
[01:38] <jamesh> Tobias__: the program source probably needs updating
[01:39] <jamesh> Tobias__: if a comment like /* xgettext:no-c-format */ appears above the string, xgettext won't think it is a C format string
[01:39] <carlos> jamesh: well, it's a c-format string, but with a small subset?
[01:39] <carlos> jamesh: I mean, the '%ld' part is still in c-format
[01:40] <carlos> jamesh: but the '%' escaping is not needed.... 
[01:40] <carlos> but that sounds really weird...
[01:40] <jamesh> ah.  I guess the string should be corrected in any case ..
[01:40] <carlos> yeah, it's the only way that we accept such string
[01:40] <carlos> disabling any kind of validation
[01:41] <jamesh> would xgettext's format string checker object to an identity translation of that string?
[01:41] <jamesh> if so, maybe such a PO file should refuse to import?
[01:42] <carlos> jamesh: sorry, I don't understand what you mean
[01:42] <jamesh> s/PO/POT/ above
[01:43] <jamesh> carlos: would gettext's format string checker allow something like this: msgid "#1%ld% complete" ... msgstr "#1%ld% complete"
[01:43] <carlos> jamesh: only if it's not tagged with c-format
[01:43] <carlos> jamesh: so with your patch to the source code, yes
[01:43] <jamesh> i.e. if the format string checker would reject an identity translation, maybe the POT file should be rejected
[01:44] <Tobias__> Yes, I think it does as it regards "% c" as "%c".
[01:45] <carlos> Tobias__: it's the only way to remove it
[01:45] <carlos> Tobias__: the .pot file is autogenerated
[01:46] <carlos> and that tag tells to the program that generates the .pot file, when it shouldn't put it
[01:46] <carlos> Tobias__: but did you check that with  '%%' the '%' char appears twice?
[01:47] <jamesh> Tobias__: if you change the source to use the string "#1%ld% complete" instead, does it display a double % in the UI?
[01:47] <jamesh> bah. I mean "#1%ld% complete"
[01:48] <Tobias__> No, I think you mean "#1%ld%%".
[01:48] <carlos> jamesh: do you mean "#1%ld%% complete" ?
[01:48] <carlos> yeah ;-)
[01:48] <jamesh> carlos: I do, but xchat seems to be eating the double %
[01:48] <jamesh> %%
[01:48] <carlos> not mine...
[01:48] <jamesh> ^ that's what I get for 4 percent signs
[01:49] <Fujitsu> jamesh, that appears as just two percent signs.
[01:49] <kiko-afk> %%
[01:50] <kiko-afk> that was 2 here. so no eating here.
[01:50] <kiko-afk> jamesh, is it something to do with python scripting I wonder?
[01:50] <jamesh> Fujitsu: yeah.  It is getting mangled on my end
[01:50] <jamesh> kiko-afk: no clue.
[01:50] <Fujitsu> %%%%
[01:50] <Fujitsu> Your end, jamesh...
[02:10] <Tobias__> Ok, I finally found a place that uses %. The answer is:  "#1%d%%" shows up as "200%%". In addition, I found the following statement in Xara's Bugzilla:
[02:10] <Tobias__> This is because the strings concerned are NOT sent to printf (i.e. they are not c-string type things in gettext terminology). They are sent to MakeMsg. MakeMsg  token are of the form #x%y where x is the parameter number and y is the type - so #1%d is a token. A single "%" has no significance unless immediately  receeded by #x (where x is 0-9). So if the string above had "retaining #1%d%% of...
[02:10] <Tobias__> ...image quality" what would be printed (assuming that it was passed 50 as the integer parameter) would be "retaining 50%% of image quality".
[02:13] <carlos> Tobias__: ok, thanks for investigating it
[02:13] <jamesh> Tobias__: okay.  The string should be marked in the source code with /* xgettext:no-c-format */ then
[02:13] <carlos> Tobias__: I guess gettext should implement too a 'MakeMsg' format check
[02:14] <carlos> jamesh: what do you think?
[02:14] <jamesh> carlos: at a minimum it should be marked as no-c-format (since it isn't a C format string)
[02:15] <carlos> yeah, but I guess is a bit difficult to know that without the tag, because it would be a typo in the English string
[02:15] <jamesh> having gettext handle the Xara LX format string type would be nice, but probably won't happen
[02:16] <carlos> jamesh: I think it's more WxWidgets format more than Xara LX
[02:16] <jamesh> carlos: okay.  Same thing :)
[02:16] <carlos> Tobias__: is that true?
[02:23] <Tobias__> I don't know, I'm not a WxWidget expert; I never used it.
[02:30] <simira> can someone here change my wikiname?
[02:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #57094 in launchpad-support-tracker "New support ticket email doesn't include package name" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57094
[02:38] <simira> carlos, jordi?
[02:38] <carlos> simira: hi
[02:39] <carlos> simira: https://launchpad.net/people/simira/+editwikinames
[02:39] <carlos> you should be able to change it yourself
[02:40] <jordi> hi simira
[02:40] <simira> carlos: ah, thanks. I didn't find that
[02:40] <carlos> simira: it's the 'Wiki Names' option
[02:41] <simira> and it works! Thank you.
[02:42] <carlos> you are welcome ;-)
[02:55] <salgado> BjornT, is there any specific reason for using a pop3 server instead of imap for incoming emails in launchpad?
[03:37] <BjornT> salgado: the major reason for using pop3 over imap was that at the time i implemented it, there was no good imap module in python.
[03:40] <BjornT> salgado: do you have a use case that would require imap?
[03:43] <salgado> BjornT, no.  just asked because cr3 pointed out that some extension rfcs to the imap protocol allow being informed of new messages, and that it could be an interesting alternative to polling the server periodically
[03:49] <flacoste> BjornT, salgado: but I think that for polling to work we would need to use a long-running daemon and I think we prefer regular polling to that to avoid problems with potential memory leak
[03:53] <BjornT> flacoste, salgado: agreed. in order for us to reimplement the email system, there has to be some strong use cases, or some serious problems with the current approach. no need to change something that works, you'll probably introduce bugs if you try to re-implement it.
[03:54] <SteveA> flacoste: you can have a fixed lifespan daemon
[03:54] <SteveA> so, a daemon that runs for say 4 hrs, then dies, to be respawned by cron
[03:54] <SteveA> so the memory leaks needn't be an issue
[03:55] <SteveA> another option is to use the SMTP server in twisted, and run that on the app servers, and get mail sent there
[03:55] <SteveA> but, that has problems with security policies in the data centre
[03:56] <stub> IMAP is more powerful but a lot harder to debug. I'd keep it simple.
[03:56] <SteveA> mails are handled in series
[03:57] <SteveA> so we could have a cron script that simply loops -- handle all pending email from the POP server. when done, get more email from the POP server.
[03:57] <SteveA> repeat N times, or until N seconds are elapsed
[03:57] <SteveA> then die and wait to be respawned
[03:58] <SteveA> so, if there is a real problem with slow email that is caused because of not polling often enough
[03:58] <SteveA> we can do simple stuff to fix it
[04:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #57109 in rosetta "Duplicated entries in /distros/ubuntu/+lang/xx" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57109
[04:50] <mpt> jamesh, ping
[04:50] <jamesh> mpt: pong
[04:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #57110 in launchpad "Link not clickable" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57110
[04:50] <mpt> jamesh, unping, sorry
[05:17] <bradb> mpt: Do you think it makes sense to upload the attached file even when the "Include attachment" box is not checked to help users that have JS turned off, so the CB isn't being checked automatically for them?
[05:18] <bradb> It seems more a hint to me that a cb is not the right control.
[05:20] <bradb> so/so the CB/for whom the CB/
[05:21] <kiko> possibly
[05:24] <jamesh> bradb: have you considered changing the bug page so that it is only a single form to edit all bug tasks and add comments/attachments?
[05:24] <bradb> I haven't considered that change to the bug page, no.
[05:25] <bradb> But I fear presenting too much at once to the user.
[05:25] <jamesh> would make it possible to get rid of the duplicated comment boxes and a few other controls.
[05:25] <jamesh> we already have all the controls in place (albeit collapsed by default)
[05:25] <jamesh> I wasn't suggesting uncollapsing them
[05:27] <bradb> doh
[05:51] <jordi> carlos, danilo: I'm around, but trying to repair my devel box
[05:51] <jordi> it seems my root filesystem will survive
[05:52] <danilos> jordi: hi
[05:52] <mpt> jamesh, really ping this time
[05:53] <jamesh> mpt: pong
[05:53] <jordi> hey danilo
[05:53] <mpt> jamesh, can you please complete or correct this line for me?
[05:53] <mpt> bzr diff -r3913..3912 | patch -p
[05:53] <mpt> The difficulty is that it's re-adding a couple of binary files I removed
[05:54] <jamesh> mpt: maybe bzr merge -r 3913..3912 . ?
[05:54] <mpt> ooo
[05:55] <jamesh> that should take care of adds/deletes/renames
[05:55] <mpt> That doesn't seem to work
[05:56] <mpt> After doing that, bzr diff is empty, and bzr st still shows the images as "unknown"
[05:57] <jamesh> hmm
[05:57] <jamesh> if it is just the tip of the branch you are trying to revert, "bzr uncommit" might do
[05:57] <mpt> Unfortunately it's not :-)
[05:58] <mpt> It's a "please restore that" from the sabdfl
[05:58] <mpt> I could just bzr add them again, there isn't really anything important in their history (except that they've been hanging around for a year or two)
[05:58] <jamesh> I'm not sure then.  I thought "bzr merge" was the correct way to do this
[05:59] <kiko> mpt, what are you undoing, just so we know?
[05:59] <jamesh> try asking on #bzr
[05:59] <mpt> argh!
[06:01] <Nafallo> :-)
[06:01] <Nafallo> something like what Keybuk wrote on #ubuntu-devel then ;-)
[06:02] <mpt> ok, even typing it properly doesn't do the correct thing
[06:02] <mpt> thanks anyway jamesh 
[06:04] <carlos> jordi: ok
[06:05] <ailean> how do I get my translations actually uploaded to the repos? I'm the only translator for Scots
[06:05] <carlos> danilos, jordi: please, join #ubuntu-meeting
[06:05] <carlos> ailean: hi
[06:05] <ailean> hi carlos :)
[06:05] <carlos> ailean: talking about Ubuntu translations?
[06:05] <ailean> yes
[06:06] <carlos> ailean: if there is no Scots translation team, anyone is allowed to translate into Scots for Ubuntu
[06:06] <carlos> ailean: do you want to restrict who is able to do it? (you will need to create a team)
[06:06] <ailean> yeah, but I've had translations up for months and they've never been added or updated
[06:06] <ailean> carlos, i have created a team
[06:06] <carlos> hmmm
[06:06] <ailean> "team":)
[06:06] <carlos> ailean: did you started before dapper release?
[06:07] <carlos> or after the final release
[06:07] <ailean> before
[06:07] <carlos> dapper gets translations updates every month
[06:07] <carlos> hmm
[06:07] <carlos> let me check...
[06:07] <ailean> ta
[06:07] <carlos> ailean: what's your country code ?
[06:08] <jordi> carlos: joined. What's the business?
[06:08] <ailean> ummm
[06:08] <ailean> Scotland, i wouldn't know where to get it
[06:08] <carlos> jordi: talk with Og about the translation team coordinator position
[06:08] <carlos> jordi: we switched some emails about it on Friday and this morning
[06:09] <carlos> ailean: sorry, I mean your language code...
[06:09] <jordi> carlos: ok, I need some update on this, was there any action taken on Friday?
[06:09] <ailean> ah
[06:09] <carlos> ailean: I'm a bit slow right now... :-P
[06:09] <ailean> sco, i think
[06:09] <carlos> jordi: no, just that we agreed on the document you sent us
[06:09] <jordi> I'm abit behind on email, having no rgood access to it
[06:09] <ailean> it is sco, carlos 
[06:09] <jordi> ok
[06:09] <carlos> jordi: today is to get some input from Og and then move to talk with the Ubuntu CC
[06:10] <jordi> nod
[06:10] <carlos> ailean: ok, thanks
[06:10] <carlos> ailean: I don't see your 'team' added to the official page of links at: https://launchpad.net/rosetta/groups/ubuntu-translators
[06:10] <carlos> ailean: what's your team name? ubunut-l10n-sco?
[06:10] <ailean> it's not clear how to do that
[06:10] <carlos> ailean: you request it and we add it
[06:11] <ailean> scotstranslators
[06:11] <carlos> the FAQ explains it more or less if you already read it and is confusing... poke jordi to improve it, please
[06:11] <ailean> sure :)
[06:11] <carlos> ailean: could you rename it to ubuntu-l10n-sco so it follows our name schema and other translators find it more easy?
[06:12] <ailean> done
[06:12] <carlos> ailean: thanks
[06:13] <carlos> ailean: I just added your team to the official list of teams
[06:13] <carlos> let me check now how is that your translations are not in dapper...
[06:13] <ailean> you did it for me? :)
[06:13] <ailean> ta :)
[06:19] <carlos> ailean: ok, I think I found the problem... We don't have locale information for your language, so Dapper is not able to use it as a valid translation domain.
[06:19] <carlos> jordi or danilos: could you handle this?
[06:20] <carlos> jordi, danilos: confirm that I'm right and help ailean to prepare such information
[06:20] <ailean> rrright
[06:20] <jordi> for scots?
[06:20] <ailean> yep
[06:20] <jordi> okay
[06:20] <danilos> carlos: well, I'll have to investigate to see what is missing, I am not sure what you mean with "locale information"
[06:20] <carlos> ailean: the problem is that I think is not possible to add your translations in Dapper, but just Edgy and later releases...
[06:20] <jordi> Scots translators, thats pretty cool
[06:21] <ailean> carlos, well i started before dapper arrived on the scene
[06:21] <carlos> danilos: at system level, it's not related with Rosetta
[06:21] <danilos> ah well, with GNU libc, one can use a translation with LANGUAGE variable even without a locale
[06:21] <danilos> carlos: but I am not sure what language-selector does
[06:22] <carlos> ailean: sure, but the problem is that new locale information should be added before the initial release. We should check with Martin Pitt if there is an option to add it to Dapper, but I think he already said that it's not possible....
[06:22] <danilos> carlos: I mean, it sets the language, so if there's a language pack for scots, and entry in language-selector, it should be fine
[06:22] <ailean> really? someone was talking about this already?
[06:22] <ailean> carlos, it is listed in language-selector
[06:22] <jordi> yeah, I think adding locales is not possible
[06:23] <jordi> we really ened to push locales as a separate source package
[06:23] <danilos> ailean: not about scots specific case, other language probably :)
[06:23] <ailean> k
[06:23] <danilos> jordi: there's also "belocs", no?
[06:23] <jordi> yup
[06:23] <ailean> soo i have to wait until october?
[06:23] <jordi> but the main locales package is being maintained pretty well in debian these days, I guess ubuntu benefits
[06:23] <danilos> ailean: what are you actually trying to do? just test, or have users use your translations?
[06:24] <jordi> ailean: actually you can translate
[06:24] <carlos> hmm
[06:24] <ailean> I have translated bits and pieces, but i'd be willing to do it properly if i could actually download and see it on my screen
[06:24] <ailean> i'm trying to translate
[06:24] <ailean> and have users use it
[06:24] <ailean> hopefully get some help too
[06:24] <ailean> jonathan riddell could gimme a hand eh
[06:25] <carlos> ailean: could you wait 30 minutes so we finish another meeting and we can have a brief one with Martin pitt ?
[06:25] <ailean> sure
[06:25] <carlos> ok, thanks
[06:25] <ailean> gimme a buzz
[06:25] <ailean> thanks guys :)
[06:25] <Nafallo> [16:14 UTC]  * pitti (i=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti) have left #ubuntu-devel ("bye")
[06:26] <danilos> ailean: you can download PO/MO files and install them manually
[06:26] <ailean> danilos, i'm a bit of a newbie . . . :) i'd rather not do that if possible
[06:26] <mpt> jamesh, you were right, but I assumed your last "." was a typo 3-/
[06:26] <mpt> kiko, restoring a couple of unused icons that I removed and sabdfl asked me to put back
[06:27] <danilos> ailean: ok, it was just a suggestion if you're impatient :)
[06:27] <kiko> mpt, I see. maybe you should announce these changes on the ML before actually doing them.
[06:29] <mpt> kiko, this was stuff he asked for the night before the sprint, just not in (enough) detail.
[06:29] <kiko> ah.
[06:29] <kiko> mpt, one more reason to announce it on the list then: we have no idea what you were doing there!
[06:29] <ailean> thanks danilos :)
[06:31] <moquist> SteveA, kiko: we just found out that Software Freedom Day ShipIt orders need to be entered manually into ShipIt, and I'm exploring some degree of automation of that. Who should I talk to before I run a script that will register ~140 new Launchpad users?
[06:32] <moquist> ...or maybe that isn't the right approach, and I shold know what the right approach is. :)
[06:33] <kiko> moquist, you need to talk to silbs and marilize
[06:33] <kiko> who are on UK time
[06:33] <moquist> kiko: we've been talking with marilize; I'll try silbs
[06:33] <moquist> kiko: is silbs in [public]  IRC anywhere?
[06:33] <kiko> moquist, yes, but she's on UK time
[06:33] <moquist> maybe I'll just call Henrik again and let him sort this out :p
[06:34] <SteveA> does it need to go through shipit?
[06:34] <kiko> SteveA++
[06:34] <SteveA> maybe it can be put into the system directly with marilize
[06:34] <moquist> SteveA: *sigh* Apparently so. The spreadsheet that I sent back on Aug. 4th was insufficient, we have now found. 8-(
[06:35] <kiko> insufficient? how so?
[06:35] <moquist> marilize says the data has to be entered manually into shipit. I'm trying to...keep a positive attitude, shall we say.
[06:36] <moquist> kiko, SteveA: she advised us to ask our teams to register themselves, but that's completely unrealistic at this point. It would be a mess and we would have a lot of [justifiably]  angry people.
[06:36] <kiko> moquist, I see. this is the first I hear about this, and I'll be happy to help, but I need to know abou tit
[06:37] <moquist> kiko: Great! What can I do to help you help me?
[06:37] <mpt> kiko, good point, I'll mail the list about it
[06:37] <kiko> moquist, write an overview of your problem to kiko@async.com.br, CC: launchpad@lists.canonical.com
[06:37] <kiko> mpt, thanks.
[06:37] <kiko> moquist, what's your deadline for this?
[06:37] <moquist> kiko: I'll include a spreadsheet with all the shipping info and CD allocations. Hopefully that'll be a good start.
[06:37] <kiko> sure.
[06:38] <moquist> kiko: The CDs need to be delievered by Sept. 16. It's an increasingly insane deadline.
[06:38] <kiko> NFW
[06:38] <kiko> jesus
[06:38] <moquist> that's why I popped in here to ask about automating the data entry at least a *little bit*
[06:38] <kiko> moquist, be sure to include this and the general idea
[06:38] <moquist> yep
[06:38] <moquist> kiko: thanks; sorry this is coming so last minute and OMB URGENT RIGHT NOW, etc.
[06:39] <moquist> er, "OMG"
[06:39] <kiko> moquist, I need to know why we are sending these CDs to end-users, etc.
[06:40] <moquist> kiko: OK. I'll write up a history of this entire thing and copy silbs and everybody else concerned.
[06:40] <kiko> moquist, wonderful
[06:42] <moquist> kiko: the subject will be "URGENT: Software Freedom Day CDs"
[06:42] <kiko> moquist, I am already trying to get tickets to the bahamas
[06:43] <moquist> :)
[06:43] <kiko> hopefully I will be sipping a martini by the time it hits my inbox!
[06:43] <Nafallo> haha
[06:51] <carlos> jordi: could you confirm that you agree? https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/fileIiN15O.html
[06:52] <carlos> seems like danilo left already.. but I think is enough with your confirmation to send it
[06:52] <jordi> hmm, usual user & pass?
[06:53] <carlos> jordi: yeah
[07:27] <carlos> stub: hi, is the migration still scheduled for tomorrow? (I don't see any email about it)
[07:27] <moquist> kiko: sent the email
[07:28] <kiko> thanks matt
[07:34] <moquist> kiko: I can't post to the launchpad list, BTW. It was rejected immediately.
[07:43] <flacoste> kiko: ping
[08:15] <ailean> carlos, any joy with the scots?
[08:15] <carlos> ailean: wow, dude, sorry... I forgot your issue completely...
[08:16] <carlos> hmmm
[08:16] <ailean> no probs - you're not my staff :D
[08:16] <carlos> anyway, pitti is not around
[08:16] <ailean> oh right
[08:16] <carlos> I will send him an email asking for info about what you need
[08:16] <ailean> great
[08:16] <carlos> can you give me your email address so I add you to the CC ?
[08:16] <ailean> sure
[08:17] <ailean> thanks mate
[08:17] <kiko> moquist, h, that's a shame. I'll forward.
[08:18] <flacoste> kiko: aha, found you :-)
[08:19] <flacoste> kiko: shall I contact my provider to ask him to check if any mails from async.com.br was lost while I was away ;-)
[08:19] <kiko> flacoste, yes, I think you should initiate a nation-wide search for your email
[08:20] <carlos> ailean: btw, I don't see Scots in the language-selector...
[08:20] <flacoste> kiko: how about resending them? or did you had an hard disk crash which just happen to blow out your email archive?
[08:21] <Nafallo> lol
[08:23] <kiko> flacoste, I'm not in brazil any longer, la la la
[08:23] <ailean> carlos, you're right
[08:23] <ailean> Scots Gaelic is in it
[08:24] <ailean> and btw, that's not the correct term BECAUSE it confuses with Scots
[08:24] <ailean> it should be Scottish Gaelic - i've put in a bug report
[08:24] <carlos> ailean: ok, thanks
[08:24] <carlos> I just sent the email to Martin with copy to you
[08:24] <ailean> my apologies
[08:24] <ailean> great, thanks :)
[08:24] <carlos> ailean: np
[08:24] <flacoste> kiko: really? where are you located now?
[08:25] <kiko> flacoste, london. will be back 
[08:25] <flacoste> ok, another sprint
[08:25] <carlos> ailean: what you should do is to try to prepare the locale information for your language so we are sure to have it before Edgy release
[08:25] <carlos> so we are sure that one has full support for your language
[08:26] <kiko> flacoste, I'm going to try and review today. if I fail you are safe with somebody else
[08:26] <flacoste> kiko: ok
[08:26] <flacoste> kiko: i would still expect you to review the spec though... and this is getting more urgent now
[08:27] <carlos> ailean: if you don't know how to write such locale information, please talk with danilos or jordi, they have experience writting such info for other languages and they will be able to help you
[08:31] <ailean> ok, will do
[08:33] <carlos> ailean: thanks
[08:33] <ailean> no, thank you
[08:47] <carlos> danilos: hi, around?
[08:49] <bradb> jamesh: ping?
[08:53] <bradb> jamesh: unping
[08:59] <jkakar> #c++
[11:18] <jkakar> Is there a way to get Launchpad to display a portlet on every page with a list of products for which I'm (somehow) associated with?
[11:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #57152 in launchpad "Database constraint triggered in +settopics page." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57152
[11:25] <sabdfl> jkakar: as a navigation tool? sort of bookmarks?
[11:27] <jkakar> sabdfl: As a navigation tool.
[11:27] <sabdfl> would two clicks be acceptable?
[11:27] <jkakar> sabdfl: I tend to fire up my browser, type launchpad.net and then have to do work to get to the product I want.
[11:28] <sabdfl> i can get it two two clicks from any page pretty easily
[11:28] <jkakar> sabdfl: Not really.  I'm mostly starting to pick up on the URL conventions and am using the location bar more heavily.
[11:28] <jkakar> sabdfl: At two clicks, it's faster to type.
[11:28] <sabdfl> location bar will get much better for "close by" navigation
[11:28] <sabdfl> hmm... click, click
[11:28] <jkakar> sabdfl: Cool!
[11:29] <sabdfl> so, for "dapper to edgy" navigation, we can't beat the location bar when it's in place according to spec
[11:29] <sabdfl> for landscape-to-ubuntu-to-python-to-zope, yes, we can get it to two clicks
[11:30] <jkakar> sabdfl: The first click to a page summarizing projects I'm related to, each one being a link to it's summary page?
[11:30] <sabdfl> right
[11:30] <jkakar> sabdfl: That'd be nice.  I keep wanting to have a "dashboard" kind of page that lists things I'm related to... in part so I can figure out what to do next.
[11:31] <sabdfl> i would like it so you can subscribe to products/distros, and when you do this, the homepage becomes that dashboard
[11:31] <jkakar> sabdfl: Right, that makes sense.
[11:32] <sabdfl> you will still of course have the search facility there, but instead of seeing featured products, you see your own selection
[11:32] <jkakar> sabdfl: That would be perfect.