[01:41] <jdong> hey, did anyone else notice that xorg-server-core was broken in a recent update? ;)
[01:42] <infinity> jdong: And then subsequently fixed?  Yes, I noticed.
[01:43] <jdong> lol
[01:43] <jdong> great job on the response time, btw
[01:43] <infinity> jdong: I also noticed a lot of people upset because we didn't test on *their* hardware before we shipped the broken package.
[01:43] <jdong> yeah, but I do think it brings out a "weakness" in our testing process for updates :-/
[01:44] <jdong> lol
[01:44] <crimsun> and purchase a contract from Canonical.
[01:44] <jdong> like a mac pro or two
[01:44] <infinity> jdong: We do have -proposed pockets, but tend to only use it for stuff we think will be massively disruptive.
[01:45] <infinity> jdong: Rodrigo didn't realise this patch would blow up the world, so it went straight in.  Mistakes happen.
[01:45] <infinity> (Note that it works for a large number of people)
[01:45] <jdong> perfectly understandable; I'm not blaming anyone or bitching here
[01:45] <jdong> on all 4 of my systems
[01:46] <infinity> Yeah, I've been suffering through it on ubuntu-users.
[01:46] <Burgwork> infinity, you still read that?
[01:46] <infinity> Specifically, trying to understand why no one can READ before they post.
[01:46] <LaserJock> at least we can fix our mistakes
[01:46] <jdong> infinity: yeah, really :-/
[01:46] <infinity> "Here's the fix, have fun" followed by 12-24 more hours of "OH GOD, IT'S BROKEN!"
[01:47] <jdong> we're using a front-page announcement and still people are posting new threads about it
[01:47] <infinity> Burgwork: I do, yes.  I realise this is probably not rational.
[01:47] <crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AcceptanceRepositoryProposal was raised, which I think simply duplicates -proposed.
[01:47] <mjg59> -proposed makes sense
[01:47] <mjg59> And it's a model that Debian follows
[01:47] <Burgwork> infinity, dude, my sanity was threatened by that mailing list about 4 months ago, so I gave up
[01:47] <mjg59> We just need to ensure that enough people are actually using it
[01:48] <mjg59> And understand that things may break occasionally
[01:48] <jdong> yeah, it's more about the people testing it than the channel being used
[01:48] <jdong> there needs to be a clear form of communication
[01:48] <jdong> maybe something on launchpad
[01:48] <jdong> a testing interface
[01:48] <jdong> where people can vote for proposed updates
[01:48] <mjg59> This was clearly a screwup, but it's the sort of screwup that happens to every OS vendor occasionally
[01:48] <jdong> mjg59: don't take it too harshly. Just a mistake, we'll get over it :)
[01:49] <Burgwork> mjg59, MS just got caught by its pants down over yet another security update
[01:49] <mjg59> NT4 SP 5 broke PS/2 input on a moderate number of machines
[01:49] <mjg59> Which was a bit of a fucker, given that it didn't support USB
[01:49] <jdong> every vendor's been susceptible to it
[01:50] <infinity> I don't mind pushing for higher use of -proposed, but from my Debian experience, I know that we won't get much testing from it anyway.
[01:51] <mjg59> infinity: Yeah, but at least in that case we've tried
[01:51] <infinity> I've had updates in Debian's -proposed-updates for months that never got a single bug reported against them until they moved into a point-release.
[01:51] <jdong> infinity: yeah, which is why you need a TEAM of testers
[01:51] <jdong> :)
[01:51] <jdong> not just a repository with test packages
[01:51] <infinity> Perhaps our rabid, crack-loving users would be more likely to use -proposed than Debian's users.
[01:52] <crimsun> jdong: which in way can possibly ensure coverage for all the bug reports that will come in.
[01:52] <crimsun> in no way, even
[01:52] <infinity> But, that said, we'll still have the SAME flamefests, as people are using -proposed when they don't have the requisite skills to fix their systems.
[01:52] <profoX`> infinity: that might be because alot of users don't know about it.. i would use it if I knew it before
[01:52] <jdong> infinity: it'd be better than the flamefests of completely clueless users getting hit by this bug
[01:52] <jdong> :-/
[01:53] <crimsun> The only way it would get greater use is if it's enabled by default. Which is the same end effect as what you just experienced.
[01:53] <profoX`> jdong: completely agree, this X bork caught alot of users completely off guard
[01:53] <infinity> jdong: See above.  We have lots of completely clueless users who don't think they are, until they get bitten by anything they can't immediately solve with a cut and paste from a forum.
[01:53] <jdong> well, if they were using a testing repo they asked for it....
[01:53] <infinity> jdong: And the ricers will all use -proposed, if they know about it, because bigger version numbers are better, or some such.
[01:54] <jdong> lol
[01:54] <profoX`> infinity: well, the proposed repository should NOT be enabled by default
[01:54] <infinity> profoX`: No, and it never owuld be.
[01:54] <jdong> definitely -proposed should not be default
[01:54] <Burgwork> the reality is, things are going to break
[01:54] <profoX`> if the users choose to use -proposed, it's their own fault..
[01:54] <Burgwork> it would be better to work on the X failover stuff
[01:54] <profoX`> (if they can't fix their system)
[01:54] <infinity> profoX`: But have you seen the number of people who ask "Can someone give be a good sources.list for dapper?!! ZOMG!" and then will blindly copy and paste whatever anyone else gives them? :)
[01:55] <HrdwrBoB> infinity: indeed, I have a massive botnet already!
[01:55] <HrdwrBoB> er.. nothing.
[01:55] <infinity> Burgwork: X failover probably wouldn't have helped in this case anyway.
[01:55] <Burgwork> infinity, no, because it was X itself that failed
[01:55] <profoX`> infinity: yes I'm aware of that. But that's not our fault. That are human errors :)
[01:55] <jdong> take it easy, everyone
[01:56] <mjg59> infinity: I think it's acceptable to piss off the crack addicts if it helps us avoid pissing off, say, Luis
[01:56] <tseng> luis's blog was rough
[01:57] <shawarma> tseng: link?
[01:57] <mjg59> I think Luis's blog was fair
[01:57] <tseng> it was fair, but it hit me hard coming from him
[01:57] <mjg59> It's not acceptable for us to break shit in a long-term stable distribution
[01:57] <tseng> shawarma: http://tieguy.org/blog/2006/08/22/still-learning-what-long-term-support-means/
[01:57] <tseng> shawarma: its not that rough in and of itself
[01:58] <tseng> sigh david nielsen in the comments
[01:59] <LaserJock> if we could put stuff in edgy first it would help but most of the time that won't work
[01:59] <profoX`> There is a cycle called "DTAP (Development, Testing, Acceptance, Production)" which means we have to develop (few people), then test (more people), then when it should be good - it should be put in an acceptance phase (meaning: this software is supposed to be stable, but we are going to test it on a big scale now [which is especially handy to check many hardware platforms on a small timescale] ) and if it passes that without problems, i
[01:59] <profoX`> t's ready to be released for everyone
[01:59] <LaserJock> at least with the big things like X ,  kernel, etc.
[02:00] <LaserJock> yeah, the problem is getting enough people to test something that may break their system
[02:00] <tseng> profoX`: that would be a pretty ass way to handle a zero day vulnerability
[02:01] <profoX`> anyway, the first step in solving a problem is to find the mistake.. how did the borked X come through?
[02:01] <tseng> if you weren't under an embargo
[02:01] <profoX`> tseng: for vulnerabilities you have to follow other guidelines of course.
[02:01] <profoX`> I think critical security updates should keep the current testing procedures, and get released in the main repositories immediately.
[02:02] <crimsun> that presupposes sane upstream. Ever tried backporting FF security fixes from 1.5 to 1.0x?
[02:03] <tseng> firefox is special
[02:03] <profoX`> crimsun: well I suppose exceptions could be made?
[02:04] <crimsun> the problem is getting -proposed to be used more (if -proposed's visibility & role are elevated)
[02:04] <profoX`> what I'm most interested in is how this X update got through. Did it apply to everyone? Did it get tested by the maintainers before it got released in the repositories and pass the test? was it an upstream bug?
[02:05] <infinity> profoX`: THe problem did not apply to everyone, it worked fine on the systems it was tested on, the patch (and bug) came from upstream.
[02:05] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I pretty much didn't know -proposed existed until this
[02:05] <infinity> profoX`: Wider testing would have caught the issue, obviously, but it's always a question of "how wide is wide enough".
[02:05] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:07] <profoX`> infinity: wider testing as in extending the use of -proposed to include small fixes, and to make the -proposed repository known to experienced users? (I think everyone for him/herself should decide whether he/she thinks she can handle it or not, and if in doubt, just leave it without the -proposed repo)
[02:08] <infinity> profoX`: Using -proposed more is likely a good idea.  Undecided on whether we should mandate it -- as we do in Debian.
[02:09] <infinity> Of course, we need to fix some things in soyuz to use it the same way Debian does.
[02:09] <infinity> (Right now, we can't move packages from -proposed to -updates without a fressh upload and rebuild to -updates, which is silly)
[02:12] <profoX`> (yes, that's silly, but that can be fixed)
[02:12] <infinity> It can be, but not immediately.
[02:13] <LaserJock> is -proposed supposed to be used only for -updates? or for general use, including edgy?
[02:13] <infinity> We don't have infinite man-hours, and the Soyuz development team is overloaded.
[02:13] <infinity> LaserJock: Err, come again?  Note the implied ${DIST} there. :)  As in ${DIST}-proposed
[02:13] <infinity> LaserJock: dapper-proposed would be used for dapper-updates.
[02:14] <LaserJock> do we have an edgy-proposed, I guess is my question?
[02:14] <infinity> LaserJock: edgy-proposed, for edgy-updates.  No point in using edgy0proposed for anything BEFORE we release edgy, that's just extra overhead with no benefit.
[02:14] <LaserJock> k, got ya
[02:14] <infinity> LaserJock: Given that anyone useing edgy should expect it to be far less stable than dapper+updates+proposed, I wouldn't see the point.
[02:15] <LaserJock> heh, well hopefully that is the case
[02:15] <infinity> (Though this doesn't stop people from screaming on lists, blogs and bugs when edgy breaks, much as people did for this dapper breakage)
[02:16] <profoX`> yes but thats not our problem.. it is known that edgy shouldn't be used in stable environments and that it can cause breakage
[02:16] <Burgundavia> infinity: we made OSnews!
[02:16] <profoX`> for dapper, thats a different story
[02:17] <jsgotangco> wohooo
[02:17] <profoX`> lol
[02:20] <profoX`> what are the plans now with -proposed ? who is going to decide what is going to happen with it ?
[02:20] <infinity> Burgundavia: The story's fair, though I question their choice of posts to link to.
[02:21] <Burgundavia> yep
[02:21] <Burgundavia> infinity: I got trolled by eugenia at LWE. Did you see the pictures they posted?
[02:21] <tseng> this is the same site that thinks "Linux Heavies Plan.." is a good headline
[02:22] <tseng> (and reviews of BlueSkyCandyLandOS)
[02:23] <infinity> Burgundavia: No..
[02:23] <tseng> Burgundavia: jorge mentioned them but i failed to find them
[02:24] <Burgundavia> just a sec
[02:25] <Burgundavia> http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=15518
[02:25] <Burgundavia> I am picture 3 and 4
[02:25] <Burgundavia> make that 2 and 3
[02:25] <Burgundavia> read the quote under 2
[02:25] <Burgundavia> and those are truly awful pictures of me
[02:25] <tseng> tasteful quoting
[02:25] <Burgundavia> very
[02:26] <Burgundavia> I guess I learned a lesson about saying things publicly
[02:26] <tseng> the pictures arent horrible
[02:27] <tseng> "lock-down" is not an adjective in my vocabulary"
[02:28] <Burgundavia> tseng: her words, not mine
[02:28] <tseng> I'm aware.
[02:28] <Burgundavia> hence why we are shipping our lead developer to the boston summit
[02:28] <Burgundavia> we plan on making lockdown a word in every developers vocabulary
[03:04] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:06] <Kaleo> hiya
[03:16] <bddebian> Hello Kaleo
[04:51] <HrdwrBoB> I'm sure this affects close to 0 people
[04:51] <HrdwrBoB> but I'd like it if the liveCD had more loop devices
[06:34] <lnxkde> hi
[06:34] <lnxkde> someone can help me with a costumization a the LIvecd?
[06:34] <lnxkde> I have made 3 live cds following this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization/6.06 
[06:35] <lnxkde> and they work nicely for livecds, but when I want to install the installer crash almost when finishing the instalation
[06:36] <lnxkde> someone can help me make anice live cd with added packages and nice IDEs and things I can use in the collage?
[06:39] <LaserJock> lnxkde: I'd ask some other projects who are making custom Desktop CDs
[06:40] <lnxkde> like?
[06:42] <LaserJock> hmm, good question
[06:42] <lnxkde> :D
[06:43] <LaserJock> the only one I know of right off hand is Ichthux
[06:43] <LaserJock> but I'd just google it
[06:56] <lnxkde> LarstiQ,  u christian?
[06:57] <lnxkde> LaserJock : u chritian
[06:58] <LaserJock> lnxkde: yeah
[06:59] <Hobbsee> does someone feel like rebuilding evolution-webcal?
[07:00] <Hobbsee> ie, someone who can upload it>
[07:00] <lnxkde> LaserJock : me too :D 
[07:01] <infinity> Hobbsee: Just needs a rebuild upload?  What for?
[07:02] <Hobbsee> infinity: to change the shlibs depends from libecal1.2-3 to libecal1.2-7
[07:02] <Hobbsee> infinity: which will then make u-d installable again
[07:02] <lnxkde> LaserJock : well please add me to your jabber or msn acount
[07:02] <infinity> Hobbsee: Spiff.  Can do.
[07:02] <Hobbsee> infinity: cool :)
[07:03] <lnxkde> LaserJock : lnxkde@kdetalk.net  or poimen7@hotmail.com
[07:03] <Hobbsee> hey what?  it failed to build!
[07:03] <Hobbsee> no, wait, it looks like it's my system.  dont worry
[07:03] <LaserJock> heh, that sure is a vote of confidence
[07:07] <infinity> Hobbsee: Oh, looks like seb already uploaded it, but it was FTBFS...
[07:07] <Hobbsee> infinity: er.  the last changelog entry is supposed to have fixed that.
[07:07] <Hobbsee> er, yeah
[07:08] <Hobbsee> which explains why i dont have the latest version
[07:08] <Hobbsee> haha
[07:09] <infinity> Too sick today to take the hard way out unless I have to. :)
[07:09] <Hobbsee> infinity: not more people sick :(
[07:09] <infinity> Something vicious is going around.  I was up all night coughing, haven't slept a wink in over a day. :/
[07:09] <Hobbsee> infinity: yeah, still failing to build
[07:09] <Hobbsee> ouchy
[07:10] <Hobbsee> infinity: http://rafb.net/paste/results/j41qcI33.html is the error here.  probably the same on the buildds
[07:10] <infinity> Hobbsee: Sadly, yes.  Guess that means a retry won't fix it.
[07:11] <Hobbsee> indeed
[07:11] <infinity> Those symbols names look suspiciously mozilla-ish.
[07:11] <infinity> Perhaps libedataserver is meant to be linked with libnspr and isn't.
[07:12] <infinity> Oh, or perhaps libedataserver-dev is lacking a dependency on libnspr-dev
[07:12] <infinity> That would make my life easier.
[07:12] <infinity> No, it has one.  Feh.
[07:15] <Hobbsee> hehe.  sorry for giving you more work there, infinity 
[07:15] <infinity> That's alright, it IS my job.
[07:16] <Hobbsee> true that.  being sick does suck though :P
[07:16] <infinity> And how.
[07:17] <infinity>         libnspr4.so => /usr/lib/libnspr4.so (0xb7c52000)
[07:17] <infinity> Grr, not found, my ass.
[07:18] <infinity> Err, and it builds in my chroot.
[07:42] <infinity> Hobbsee: Okay, sorted on all arches except powerpc, which I'm working on.
[07:42] <Hobbsee> infinity: cool :)
[07:42] <Hobbsee> infinity: that means i could possibly install ubuntu-desktop, then :P
[07:42] <infinity> Hobbsee: In another hour or so, yeah.
[07:42] <Hobbsee> well, yeah
[07:43] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: woah, scary
[07:43] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed.
[07:44] <LaserJock> I installed kubuntu-desktop on 2 of my machines so it must be contagious
[07:45] <sivang> morning
[07:46] <Hobbsee> hey sivang!
[08:06] <Kagou> mjg59: around ?
[08:50] <Keybuk> heh, damn that automatic "laptop on" reaction
[08:55] <pitti> Good morning
[08:56] <Hobbsee> hey pitti 
[08:56] <Hobbsee> hey ogra 
[08:56] <ogra> morning ....
[08:57] <sivang> morning distro sprinters
[08:58] <BenC> morning
[08:59] <pitti> hey sivang
[08:59] <pitti> Hobbsee: Hi Sarah
[08:59] <Nafallo> sivang: good morning (but I'm not a sprinter ;-))
[09:00] <Nafallo> *sigh* it's raining, I've to leave for work soon :-(
[09:00] <Hobbsee> ...
[09:00] <Hobbsee> pitti: another person using my real name.  how scary.
[09:01] <Nafallo> hehe.
[09:01] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: you don't like your name? :-)
[09:01] <pitti> Hobbsee: sorry, it's not really a secret ...
[09:02] <Hobbsee> Nafallo: oh i do, i'm just not used to it being used
[09:02] <Hobbsee> pitti: it's okay.  i even changed it on LP finally :)
[09:02] <Hobbsee> pitti: it's more that i'm not used to it, rather than having a problem withit
[09:05] <sivang> hey pitti , Nafallo , Sarah ;-)
[09:05] <simira> *grumbles*
[09:06] <Nafallo> s/to/aswell/
[09:06] <Nafallo> morning * :-)
[09:06] <Hobbsee> hey sivang 
[09:06] <Hobbsee> hey simira 
[09:07] <Mithrandir> 'morning dudes and dudettes
[09:08] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: hi there :-D
[09:09] <sivang> Mithrandir: hey there
[09:09] <simira> Mithrandir: feeling low today?
[09:09] <Mithrandir> simira: no, but my body breaks if I can't sit with my laptop in my lap.
[09:09] <Hobbsee> hey Mithrandir 
[09:09] <infinity> dholbach: *poke*
[09:10] <dholbach> infinity: pong
[09:10] <infinity> dholbach: Stickynotes so does *not* transparenty upgrade to Tomboy, despite the gnome-applets changelog claiming otherwise.
[09:10] <simira> Mithrandir: of course...
[09:10] <dholbach> infinity: upstream is discussing it as well
[09:10] <infinity> dholbach: All my stick notes are now inaccessible, since the applet's gone, and TOmboy know nothing about them.
[09:10] <dholbach> urg, it should import them
[09:11] <infinity> dholbach: Didn't appear to do any such thing.
[09:11] <infinity> dholbach: Is there a command I can run manually to make it do so?
[09:11] <dholbach> lemme have a quick look
[09:13] <infinity> dholbach: Also, is it known that gnome-terminal's (vte's?) URL-parsing has smoked a giant bowl of crack in the last little while and no longer seems sane?
[09:13] <dholbach> infinity: make a new note and click the "do something" button
[09:13] <dholbach> infinity: it has "import from sticky notes"!
[09:13] <dholbach> s/\!//
[09:14] <infinity> dholbach: Ahh, hrm.  Kay.  it claims it imported 4.  No idea where. :)
[09:14] <infinity> dholbach: I'll play with it.
[09:14] <infinity> Oh, I see, they just don't display by default.
[09:14] <dholbach> infinity: i'll wait for a final verdict on the gnome mailing list and if that doesn't work, just revert that bit again
[09:14] <infinity> dholbach: There's no way to make this thing display smallish notes like stickynotes, is there? :/
[09:15] <dholbach> infinity: for the vte/whatever breakage i'll have a look too, although i didn't update them in a ahile
[09:15] <infinity> dholbach: I'll file a bug about the vte thing if it doesn't resolve itself and I can get good screenshots/descriptions for you.
[09:16] <infinity> Woohoo, mono crashed when I tried to set my Tomboy preferences!
[09:16] <infinity> I LOVE TOMBOY SO MUCH.
[09:16] <lifeless> no yet
[09:16] <lifeless> you will be 
[09:17] <infinity> Yeah, that was sarcasm.  I'm bitter.
[09:17] <infinity> Giant windows with huge buttons and embedded wikis do not make a good replacement for compact little sticky notes that don't show up in the task bar and I can keep on my desktop at all times.
[09:18] <infinity> I guess I'll just have to find a new way to stay (dis)organised.
[09:18] <lifeless> whats happening to sticky notes ?
[09:20] <infinity> It went away in the latest gnome-applets.
[09:20] <infinity> With a claim that we should all migrate to Tomboy.
[09:20] <infinity> And now I'm a sad panda.
[09:21] <Mithrandir> infinity: Somebody(tm) could just resurrect it in a new package, I guess.
[09:22] <infinity> Mithrandir: I may have to, if dholbach doesn't love me enough to bring it back. :)
[09:23] <dholbach> infinity: man... I told you! I'll wait for the gnome guys and see what they decide and if not, I'll bring it back on my own :)
[09:37] <pitti> sivang: ok, so what was the bug # of your hal issue?
[09:42] <pitti> ajmitch: ping?
[09:43] <sivang> pitti: yay, malone #56484
[09:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56484 in hal "hal does not detect media change in USB-DVD-Drive" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56484
[09:43] <sivang> pitti: although the title might be misleading.
[09:47] <sivang> pitti: hal doesn't seem to produce anymore the proper info.category entries for CDROMs for example 
[09:47] <pitti> sivang: ok, this might point to the bug
[09:47] <sivang> pitti: or actually failes to return proper results for that category
[09:48] <pitti> sivang: anyway, ogra has an USB DVD drive here and that one seems to do fine
[09:48] <sivang> pitti: that's interesting. I for one can't see my dvd burner anymore in hal-device-manager
[09:48] <sivang> pitti: which is under scsi
[09:49] <sivang> (/dev/scd0)
[09:49] <pitti> sivang: ok, the attached hal logs to that bug have the same problem
[09:49] <sivang> ogra: can you try a test with a piece of code of mine?
[09:50] <sivang> pitti: okay, cool, so you have everything you need to try and fix it?
[09:50] <pitti> sivang: well, I can just poke in logs for now; I asked ogra to send a working lshal for comparison
[09:51] <pitti> ogra: can you please attach the log to bug 56484 ?
[09:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56484 in hal "hal does not detect media change in USB-DVD-Drive" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56484
[09:51] <sivang> pitti: I have a piece of code that can be used as a test case
[09:52] <sivang> pitti: basically, hubackup's device detector
[09:52] <pitti> sivang: cool, please attach it to the bug
[09:53] <sivang> pitti: will do
[09:56] <ogra> pitti, done ...
[09:57] <sivang> pitti: done
[09:58] <rodarvus> infinity, evolution-webcal is breaking livecd daily build from finishing. I've just talked with seb128 and he told me all thats necessary is a rebuild on the buildds - could you please evolution-webcal for me?
[09:58] <rodarvus> "could you please re-schedule evolution-webcal for me", I mean :)
[10:01] <Hobbsee> rodarvus: rebuild got done, it's installable now
[10:01] <rodarvus> that was fast :D
[10:01] <rodarvus> (just kidding)
[10:01] <Hobbsee> rodarvus: :)  i bugged him about it earlier, when i was considering installing u-d
[10:02] <rodarvus> Hobbsee, thanks!
[10:02] <Hobbsee> rodarvus: :)
[10:05] <pitti> sivang: ok, can reproduce it here
[10:05] <sivang> pitti: yay
[10:06] <pitti> sivang: your script isn't that useful, it stops with an ImportError :(
[10:08] <sivang> pitti: ah, well, you'd better just install hubackup to satisfy the dependencies, or let me know what the import error is about?
[10:09] <pygi> sivang, :)
[10:09] <sivang> hi pygi 
[10:13] <janimo> iwj: hi, the latest firefox seems to not link to libnss3, so it does not show https pages
[10:14] <janimo> glatzor: hi
[10:15] <sivang> hi glatzor 
[10:15] <janimo> hi sivang
[10:16] <glatzor> hi janimo and hi sivang
[10:16] <dholbach> heya janimo
[10:16] <janimo> hi dholbach
[10:16] <glatzor> dholbach: hi, are you in wiesbaden too?
[10:17] <dholbach> glatzor: yes :)
[10:18] <sivang> glatzor: I wanted to ask you, do you know how to customize a GtkFileChooser ?
[10:19] <glatzor> sivang: what do you want to know in detail?
[10:20] <sivang> glatzor: I was thining maybe the "maual" created selector in the main window of the new hubackup gui could be dropped, and instead we could have a GtkFileChooser that will always defalt to a CDRW/DVDRW whatever, thus leaving all device detection and other related stuff abstracted by the file chooser
[10:20] <sivang> glatzor: in the main window, there's a selector that let's you choose either a file, or cdrom to backup to
[10:20] <sivang> glatzor: (at least planned)
[10:21] <Riddell> enrico: I need more debtags help.  my sources.list file has nothing but this in it "tags file:/usr/share/debtags/"
[10:21] <Kagou> hi, i don't remember what we have to do when the usplash screen test is not well scaled in edgy. Can someone remember me ?
[10:21] <Riddell> enrico: and /usr/share/debtags has tags-current.gz  vocabulary.gz from "http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/tags/" but I get "debtags: ConsistencyCheckException: Unable to use any data source (not even previously cached ones)"
[10:22] <glatzor> sivang: the filechooser doesn't support burning cdroms.
[10:22] <sivang> glatzor: I don't understand :)
[10:23] <pygi_> sivang, it doesnt show you burner devices
[10:24] <glatzor> sivang: choosing a folder/file is different from burning to a cdrom. 
[10:25] <glatzor> sivang: if you need s starting point for hal integration in python you could take a look at the hal device manager
[10:25] <sivang> pygi_ , glatzor : if we could customize it it could say "XXX Burner" instead of plain "CDROM 1"
[10:26] <sivang> glatzor: I already have hal integratoin , I was just thinking of dropping it since it's changes so often and tends to be fragile :-)
[10:27] <enrico> Riddell: hi.  Can you send me a strace of the debtags update run?
[10:28] <pygi_> sivang, use libburn's scan bus :)
[10:28] <glatzor> sivang: use info.product for the display name
[10:29] <janimo> glatzor: did you have time to look into the remaining gtktreeview issue in g-a-i as an alternate to the last gnome dep?
[10:29] <Riddell> enrico: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/DEBTAGS-STRACE
[10:30] <sivang> glatzor: already doing it :-)
[10:30] <sivang> glatzor: anyway, I'm already working to make the data from the TreeView's fit into the selector in your glade file
[10:31] <sivang> glatzor: however, need to go now, talk later
[10:31] <glatzor> janimo: sorry. not yet.
[10:31] <glatzor> sivang: bye
[10:33] <janimo> glatzor: np, was just curious, as michael said he'd agree to merge it if it can be solved cleanly
[10:33] <glatzor> janimo: we need to talk to a Canonical marketing guy. using plain text for the licence would be the easiest solution
[10:35] <janimo> glatzor: I agree. Should I try contacting them? (after looking at g-a-i to see what it is about actually)
[10:37] <glatzor> feel free to do so. I wanted to talk to malcom some time ago, but haven't found him on irc
[10:38] <enrico> Riddell: looking...  it doesn't even try to read them  :(
[10:38] <enrico> Riddell: where can I find the version (and source package) of libapt-front that you're using?
[10:40] <Riddell> enrico: 0.3.9ubuntu2 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/liba/libapt-front/
[10:44] <enrico> Riddell: uhm,     if (uri.find("file://") == 0)
[10:44] <enrico> try using file:///usr/share/debtags
[10:46] <G0SUB> pitti: ping
[10:56] <pitti> G0SUB: pong
[10:58] <enrico> Riddell: did it work?
[10:59] <Riddell> enrico: yay!
[10:59] <enrico> Riddell: 
[11:09] <rodarvus> you gotta love unicode :)
[11:12] <pitti> sivang: ok, it's a pretty ancient bug, I added some information to it
[11:17] <Riddell> enrico: I've uploaded debtags with vocabulary.gz and the file:/// URL.  I've also filed a bug on soyuz to include debtags in the Packages.gz https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/57418
[11:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57418 in soyuz "Support debtags in Packages.gz" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[11:19] <Riddell> enrico: thanks for your help
[11:25] <enrico> Riddell: thank you for your work on Debtags on Ubuntu
[11:37] <jono> hey ho
[11:39] <irvin> hello jono 
[11:39] <jono> hi irvin
[12:08] <iwj> janimo: firefox/nss3> I had a similar problem but I solved it with a reinstall (there were other crazy things wrong too).  Is it just you and me ?
[12:12] <TMM> hey
[12:13] <TMM> I have a question, how do I use the -dbg packages with gdb? I especially want to use gdb on evoltion and evolution-data-server. I know how to load debug symbols for one binary :) but not for the whole directory structure 
[12:13] <pitti> TMM: you don't usually need to
[12:14] <pitti> TMM: just install -dbg and gdb will pick them up automagically
[12:14] <seb128> TMM: it works automagically
[12:14] <TMM> so far, I have seen a lot of unresolved symbols in the backtraces 
[12:14] <TMM> but, that might be because of evolution-data-server being started automatically 
[12:14] <seb128> you don't have enough -dbg installed then ;)
[12:14] <pitti> TMM: you might need further packages, like glibs' and gtk's -dbg
[12:15] <seb128> can you put the backtrace on pastebin ?
[12:15] <TMM> I think I've got one up on the bugzilla, let me check
[12:16] <TMM> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=351528
[12:16] <Mithrandir> seb128: gaim-irc with socks5 + ssh -D makes me a sad panda.  gaim stops responding and ssh kills the connection.
[12:16] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 351528 in Miscellaneous "crash on Evolution" [Critical,Needinfo]  
[12:16] <Mithrandir> seb128: is this known?
[12:17] <seb128> Mithrandir: not by me
[12:17] <seb128> Mithrandir: is there anybody really using gaim for IRC?
[12:17] <TMM> I've got a pretty damn huge groupwise calendar, so, I decided I should spend some time on it
[12:18] <Mithrandir> seb128: I was just going to try it, yes.
[12:18] <Mithrandir> seb128: if you do ssh -D 1234 some.host, then add an IRC connection and tell it to use socks5 on localhost:1234 ssh gives me an error (buffer_get_ret: trying to get more bytes 2 than in buffer 1) and exits.  Gaim stops repainting its UI, but responds to C-q
[12:19] <seb128> TMM: you need evolution-data-server-dbg and libglib2.0-0-dbg for that one
[12:19] <TMM> I had both installed at that time
[12:19] <Mithrandir> as well as 100% cpu usage.
[12:19] <seb128> TMM: really weird
[12:19] <seb128> TMM: can you try to get the bt with gdb instead of bug-buddy?
[12:20] <seb128> Mithrandir: file a bug please
[12:20] <TMM> seb128: I was actually working on that
[12:20] <TMM> I just attached to evolution-data-server and that seems to load the debug info just fine
[12:21] <seb128> cool
[12:21] <TMM> well the whole shebang should be monitored by gdb now
[12:22] <TMM> how nice... :(
[12:22] <TMM> now evo freezes :)
[12:23] <Mithrandir> seb128: thanks, bug 57430.
[12:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57430 in gaim "gaim unhappy when Socks5 server goes away" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57430
[12:23] <seb128> np
[12:23] <seb128> thank you for the bug ;)
[12:25] <TMM> owww.... now gnome-panel freezes
[12:25] <TMM> I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong
[12:25] <pitti> sivang: FYI, I have the USB DVD working locally here
[12:27] <TMM> ***MEMORY-ERROR***: evolution-data-server[15271] : GSlice: assertion failed: sinfo->n_allocated > 0
[12:27] <TMM> hum
[12:28] <TMM> then the calendering component crashes, but, no way to get any useful information... what do I do now? step through evolution-data-server? :)
[12:28] <TMM> evolution-data-server just exits then
[12:33] <seb128> TMM: what version of Ubuntu do you use?
[12:33] <seb128> TMM: that assertion looks like http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347987
[12:33] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 347987 in Calendar "EDS exits frequently" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]  
[12:39] <TMM> seb128: edgy
[12:40] <TMM> seb128: but, it does this in dapper as well, that is why I went to edgy, to try and debug/fix this.
[12:40] <seb128> TMM: ok, so getting a debug backtrace on your upstream bug would probably a good step for that
[12:40] <seb128> TMM: thank you for working on that!
[12:40] <TMM> yeah, that needs to be done as well
[12:40] <TMM> but, that bug is hard to reproduce
[12:55] <StevenK>  python2.5 | 2.5~c1-0ubuntu2 |          edgy | source, amd64, i386
[12:55] <pitti> pygi: we already have it in universe
[12:55] <pitti> no, even main
[12:55] <StevenK> That's madison-lite, not apt-cache madison
[12:55] <StevenK> But yes, main.
[12:56] <pygi> pitti, o, great, because bindings for libburn/libisofs will be python2.5 :)
[12:56] <pygi> thanks StevenK 
[12:57] <pygi> pitti, pm just for a sec :)
[01:29] <\sh> moins
[01:29] <\sh> ok, wine does run with -fno-stack-protector
[01:43] <jdub> Keybuk: ping
[01:44] <Keybuk> jdub: hey
[01:45] <jdub> Setting up udev (093-0ubuntu12) ...
[01:45] <jdub> mknod: `/lib/udev/devices/net/tun': No such file or directory
[01:45] <jdub> 
[01:45] <jdub> known?
[01:45] <Keybuk> new
[01:45] <Keybuk> please file
[01:45] <jdub> ok
[01:46] <seb128> jdub: dup of #57436
[01:46] <seb128> bug #57436
[01:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57436 in udev "[Edgy]  Configuration error in latest udev update (093-0ubuntu12)." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57436
[01:47] <jdub> seb128: ah thanks, i'll confirm it
[01:47] <seb128> np ;)
[02:21] <seaLne> how does dpkg -S decide which package a file is in?  it says a file was provided by a package but i can't find the file in the package
[02:24] <geser> I assume it searches through all /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list
[02:25] <seaLne> could the .list lie about the file?
[02:25] <infinity> seaLne: Only if you delete some.
[02:25] <infinity> seaLne: Or if you're looking at a diverted file, but dpkg -S tells you about diverts.
[02:26] <infinity> seaLne: What do you mean by "can't find the file in the package"?
[02:26] <seaLne> kdm thinks it installs /etc/kde3/kdm/backgroundrc but i can't see it anywhere in the kdebase source
[02:27] <infinity> Not sure why you'd expect to see it in the source.
[02:27] <seaLne> well if its not in the source package how does it end up in the binary one?
[02:28] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ dpkg-deb -c kdm_3.5.4-0ubuntu9_i386.deb | grep backgroundrc
[02:28] <infinity> -rw-r--r-- root/root       367 2006-08-22 21:26 ./etc/kde3/kdm/backgroundrc
[02:28] <infinity> It's definitely in the binary package.
[02:28] <infinity> I assume it's generated at build time in the source package.  *shrug*
[02:28] <seaLne> ah, possibly
[02:28] <seaLne> thanks
[02:40] <sivang> re
[02:57] <sivang> pitti: so we are going to wait for upstream to fix it, yes?
[02:57] <sivang> pitti: (I've followed all the bug trails)
[02:59] <sivang> pitti: oh! nice, now the descriptions fits :-) "..hal does not detect non-ATAPI CD-ROM drives"
[02:59] <pitti> sivang: no, I have a fix here, I'll upload it shortly
[03:00] <sivang> pitti: Have you like taught hal not to ignore the event ?
[03:01] <pitti> sivang: yes
[03:01] <sivang> pitti: cool
[03:02] <pygi> sivang, congrats :)
[03:02] <pygi> sivang, python2.5 good for you for python bindings? :)
[03:02] <sivang> pygi: python bindings for what ?
[03:04] <pygi> sivang, libburn ofcourse :)
[03:05] <shackan> cool
[03:05] <sivang> pygi: well, it would be good, when libburn will be able to do multi sessions stuff as well as regular burns. 
[03:06] <sivang> pygi: in in concert detect amount of free space left on a multi session media
[03:09] <pitti> sivang: uploaded
[03:09] <sivang> pitti: yay! thank you
[03:10] <sivang> pygi: do you have those bindings somewhere? have they been tested ?
[03:13] <infernux> is it "save" to upgrade to edgy atm? (meaning, is there any known breakage with kernel or boot process atm?)
[03:14] <pygi> sivang, we are writing them :)
[03:14] <pygi> sivang, you could try to detect free space with libburn already (havent tried on multi-session dics tho)
[03:15] <sivang> pygi: on non multi sessoins discs I don't think it makes much sense :)
[03:15] <sivang> but I may be missing something..
[03:15] <pygi> sivang, I need to get my  hands on some multi-session specs
[03:16] <sivang> pygi: send the link away , I'll give it a try. Is there a test code somewhere in the source tree?
[03:16] <pygi> sivang, I dont think there is test code for detecting free space
[03:17] <pygi> you have api here: http://libburn-api.pykix.org
[03:17] <sivang> pygi: you guys should have tests for all of the features of the api, basically.
[03:17] <pygi> if you have questions, please be sure to direct them to libburn-hackers
[03:17] <pygi> sivang, I may help there, and others can help there
[03:17] <pygi> perhaps, but there are more important things then tests now :)
[03:26] <sivang> pygi: can I just svn up in my already exsiting source tree?
[03:26] <pygi> sivang, sure
[03:27] <sivang> pygi: okay, I up'd - but I don't see the bindings there, have you commited them already ?
[03:27] <pygi> sivang, no, no, as I said above: still working on them :)
[03:27] <azeem> pygi: btw, libburn lacks a ChangeLog apparently :P
[03:28] <pygi> azeem, it does, read development guide pls :)
[03:28] <sivang> pygi: ah , okay, cool :-)
[03:28] <pygi> azeem, I don't like changelogs :)
[03:28] <pygi> azeem, http://libburn.pykix.org/wiki/DevGuide
[03:29] <azeem> pygi: it would make sense to use a svn browser which can display commit logs then
[03:29] <pygi> azeem, you can see commit logs :)
[03:29] <pygi> azeem, as in "Last change"
[03:30] <azeem> pygi: oh, then just the link to http://libburn-svn.pykix.org/ on the wiki frontpage is misleading
[03:30] <pygi> if people think that changelog is better then my "agregate tickets per milestone" idea, I am willing to think :)
[03:30] <azeem> I still think it's unneccesary hassle
[03:30] <pygi> azeem, http://libburn.pykix.org/browser :)
[03:30] <azeem> pygi: yes, I found it now
[03:30] <sivang> pygi: looks promising, nice
[03:30] <sivang> pygi: and there is a /test dir on the source tree, just make sur eyou add ther etests for new features you add
[03:31] <pygi> sivang, what looks promising? yes, I'll make sure...I hope :)
[03:31] <pygi> Do the packagers in ubuntu feel like changelog is better then my current way then? :)
[03:31] <pygi> especially sivang who will maintain the packages? :)
[03:32] <sivang> pygi: well, it's not a matter a feeling :-) It's a must
[03:32] <sivang> pygi: if you do not provide it, then I will have to :p
[03:32] <pygi> sivang, oh, ok, I'll leave it to you then :)
[03:33] <pygi> with major changes
[03:34] <pygi> sivang, will that be enough?
[03:35] <pygi> sivang, something similar like we did here:
[03:35] <pygi> http://diva-project.org/browser/tags/ZeroZeroTwo/NEWS
[03:38] <sivang> pygi: that seems fine, yes :)
[03:44] <pygi> sivang, good :)
[03:45] <pygi> sivang, I'll inform you as soon as py bindings are ready
[03:45] <sivang> pygi: cool, let me know when you're aready for packaging
[03:46] <pygi> sivang, sure, as soon as I get libisofs rewrite in, and python bindings
[03:46] <sivang> pygi: okay
[04:24] <\sh> re
[04:27] <\sh> guys, when I try to push a "bazaar"ed sourcetree to bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/<product-name>/ubuntu with dappers bzr version, it doesn't push it to the server but creates a directory sftp...
[04:37] <bluefoxicy> gah why can't synaptic show changelogs like update-manager
[04:46] <mjg59> Is archive slow for anyone else right now?
[04:48] <Hobbsee> mjg59: i thought it sped up for the past couple of days
[04:48] <mjg59> Hm
[04:48] <mjg59> Maybe it's my network, then
[04:48] <Hobbsee> mjg59: what kinds of speeds are you getting?
[04:49] <mjg59> 70K/sec or so
[04:49] <elmo> mjg59: I can do 600K/s from the office
[04:49] <mjg59> Right, probably me then
[04:49] <Hobbsee> heh.  lucky
[04:49] <Hobbsee> oh, wait, K/sec, yeah
[04:50] <LarstiQ> \sh: you need to have paramiko installed
[04:53] <janimo> mjg59: what is the main advantage of sensing laptop hotkeys (Audio in my case) via HAL vs grabbing the X pointer?
[04:58] <mjg59> janimo: It makes little real difference
[04:58] <mjg59> janimo: I'd just implement whichever is easier
[04:59] <\sh> LarstiQ: ah...,)
[05:00] <LarstiQ> \sh: 0.9 gives a better message about that, but it's not in dapper yet I'm afraid
[05:02] <\sh> hmmm....
[05:03] <\sh> why is python-paramiko (which depends on python2.4-paramiko) in universe, and python2.4-paramiko in main...this looks wrong somehow...but nevermind ;)
[05:37] <bddebian> Morning folks
[05:37] <_ion> Good evening.
[05:39] <welshbyte> ello bddebian 
[05:39] <bddebian> Heya welshbyte
[05:40] <bddebian> welshbyte: I haven't had a chance to look at gnu-smalltalk yet but I will
[05:40] <welshbyte> bddebian: yeah no problem, in your own time
[05:41] <bddebian> welshbyte: Need more work in the mean time? ;-)
[05:41] <welshbyte> bddebian: umm, well i was going to have a look at bonfire...
[05:43] <bddebian> welshbyte: Ah, OK
[05:43] <bddebian> As long as you are working.. ;-P
[05:43] <welshbyte> this isn't work, this is fun :)
[05:54] <rkd> how important is python in ubuntu development? is it worth learning it in order to contribute to ubuntu. or is a relatively minor tool/likely to be replaced with something like ruby?
[05:55] <Burgwork> rkd, python is what almost all new ubuntu tools are developed in
[05:55] <Burgwork> rkd, we currently don't ship ruby by default, so if you want to develop something for Ubuntu in that language, you may have issues
[05:57] <rkd> Burgwork: i wasn't implying that i wanted to do ubuntu-ruby development, just that i'd heard ruby compared very favourably to python and wondered if ubuntu was likely to move away from python in the future
[06:00] <pygi> rkd, unlikely :)
[06:01] <sbalneav> rodarvus_: ping
[06:01] <rodarvus_> sbalneav, pong
[06:01] <sbalneav> Need me to test any of the nbd-swap stuff?
[06:02] <rkd> Burgwork, pygi: ok, thanks
[06:02] <pygi> rkd, python rocks ^_^ see 2.5 ^_^
[06:03] <rodarvus> sbalneav, its not ready, yet. I planned to work on it the full day yesterday, but other, uhh... interesting issues kept me from touching it :/
[06:04] <sbalneav> Ohhh, good interesting, or bad interesting? :)
[06:05] <pitti> hi sbalneav 
[06:06] <sbalneav> Hey pitti!   Thanks for the green light on lbmount!
[06:06] <sbalneav> How's the sprint?
[06:07] <pitti> sbalneav: quite nice and productive
[06:08] <sbalneav> Awesome.  Ogra tells me much nautilus happieness is in place now!  ltsp + localdev + edgy = sexy.
[06:08] <pitti> sbalneav: indeed, I was really impressed by it
[06:08] <ogra> totally 
[06:08] <pitti> sbalneav: yes, gnome-vfs should behave now
[06:08] <sbalneav> ogra!  you scurvy dog you!
[06:09] <ogra> sbalneav, we have even an option in the user and groups tool to en/disable it per user ;)
[06:09] <ogra> i just added it
[06:09] <sbalneav> hey hey
[06:09] <ogra> and i guess you noticed that the spec is set to implemented ;)
[06:10] <sbalneav> I see that the xnest bug's been squashed.  Rodrigo's got nbd in hand, what can I kick in on?  What's the progress on scp?  Anything I can help with?
[06:10] <sbalneav> Yea! Saw that!  W00t
[06:10] <ogra> scp is currently attacked by cbx33 ...
[06:10] <ogra> but he might need help, not sure ... i had no time to talk to him yet
[06:11] <ogra> sbalneav, btw, i tried an ipod yesterday, works perfect ;)
[06:11] <sbalneav> ipod for the win!
[06:11] <sbalneav> how about login-and-session-handling?
[06:12] <ogra> on my list but not yet targeted ... i need to look at your ltspinfod and how to get it runing on the server to provide the two variables
[06:12] <ogra> that'd be soemthing you could greatly help with ... (assuming you wrote ltspinfod)
[06:13] <sbalneav> ogra: Or, rather than that, I was thinking...
[06:13] <sbalneav> Oh, wait, ubuntu doesn't run inetd does it...
[06:13] <ogra> ltsp does ;)
[06:13] <Burgwork> rkd, very unlikely that ruby will replace python. I won't say it won't happen, but pig are probably going to fly first
[06:13] <ogra> but we discussed that, remember ? 
[06:14] <ogra> mdz insisted to use ltspinfod 
[06:14] <sbalneav> umm vaguely :)
[06:14] <ogra> (i'd also have preferred a small python app that just provides the info as we designed it first (using inetd))
[06:15] <sbalneav> we'd have to run it on the server, in order for ldm to pick up the languages.  But maybe I'm confusing things, gimme a sec to go re-read the sped.
[06:15] <sbalneav> s/sped/spec/
[06:15] <ogra> right, we have to run it on the server 
[06:15] <ogra> is ltspinfod only designed for clients ? 
[06:16] <sbalneav> There's no reason it can't run on the server.  I'll go grab the code.  How much longer you gonna be online?
[06:17] <rodarvus> sbalneav, bad interesting :)
[06:17] <sbalneav> :(
[06:17] <rodarvus> really horrible interesting, actually
[06:17] <sbalneav> :( :(
[06:18] <sbalneav> brb, workping
[06:18] <rodarvus> I'll get over it. I have a hard skin :)
[06:18] <rodarvus> (but I still own people a public apology, which I'll do today)
[06:37] <sbalneav> ogra: leave the mods to ltspinfod to me
[06:37] <sbalneav> I'll do it tonight.
[06:38] <ogra> cool, thanks 1
[06:38] <ogra> !
[06:38] <ogra> then i'll leave out the ldm today and look into the installer/udeb stuff 
[06:39] <sbalneav> k
[06:39] <sbalneav> sounds like a plan
[06:39] <ogra> yup
[06:39] <ogra> even though we only have ~1h before mdz locks the room :/
[07:21] <mjg59> Oh foo.
[07:22] <mjg59> How do I force dput to upload the orig.tar.gz when it doesn't want to?
[07:22] <crimsun> pass -sa to debuild [/dpkg-buildpackage]  -S
[07:22] <mjg59> Ah
[07:22] <mjg59> Yes, that's the one
[08:51] <pascal80> why is foomatic-db-gutenprint and ijsgutenprint installed by default on Edgy
[08:52] <pascal80> These packages are only needed for non CUPS spoolers like lpr an lprng
[08:53] <pascal80> cupsys-driver-gutenprint generates CUPS raster PPDs for all printers supported by gutenprint
[08:54] <pascal80> since Ubuntu uses CUPS, why have foomatic-db-gutenprint and ijsgutenprint?
[08:55] <Treenaks> you again?
[08:55] <Treenaks> :)
[08:55] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks: be nice
[08:55] <pascal80> hello again Treenaks
[08:55] <Treenaks> you should try during the day (Europe-day), then more people are active here
[08:56] <pascal80> I have a job to do during the day
[08:56] <Treenaks> then just mail the -devel list :)
[08:56] <pascal80> OK will do
[09:00] <Nafallo> pascal80: or try in a week when the devels are back from the sprint :-)
[09:01] <Burgwork> pascal80, the person you need to talk to is pitti
[09:08] <pascal80> Thanks a lot guys!
[10:03] <sladen> mjg59: oooh, talking of that
[10:17] <aigarius> could a launchpad administrator please remove https://launchpad.net/products/sbackup/trash ?
[10:18] <pygi> aigarius, #launchpad
[10:18] <aigarius> pygi: ok
[10:46] <mdz> mjg59: which bit?
[10:46] <mjg59> mdz: Mm?
[10:46] <mdz> mjg59: the bit which breaks my text consoles or the bit which breaks resume from hibernate?
[10:46] <mjg59> mdz: Oh, usplash?
[10:46] <mdz> y
[10:46] <mjg59> Text consoles should be fixed now
[10:46] <mdz> do you know what the issue is with resume?
[10:46] <mjg59> svgalib screwed up resetting text mode if your resolution was above 800x600
[10:47] <mjg59> I'm checking that next
[10:50] <mjg59> sabdfl: Incidentally, we have adequate X server support to ship with bling
[10:50] <gnomefreak> who would be best to ask about kernel restricted modules
[10:51] <bddebian> Did mysql-doc get wrapped into another package?  Seems to have disappeared from Debian after Woody
[10:51] <mdz> gnomefreak: #ubuntu-kernel
[10:51] <gnomefreak> ty
[10:51] <mjg59> mdz: Oh, I see
[10:51] <mjg59> mdz: Looks like a kernel issue that we fixed is back
[10:51] <pygi> mdz, is there any chance I might convince *someone* that we get SVN packages into universe? :)
[10:51] <pygi> more specifically, libburn, libisofs, and cdrskin :)
[10:52] <mjg59> mdz: Ask Ben to reapply the patch that removes pm_prepare_console and pm_restore_console
[10:52] <mdz> mjg59: please note that in bug 56591
[10:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56591 in usplash "Can't resume from hibernation" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56591
[10:53] <mjg59> mdz: Incidentally, I can probably provide graphical hiberante support if you want?
[10:54] <mdz> mjg59: oh, how?
[10:54] <mjg59> mdz: The uswsusp code we have in universe
[10:54] <mjg59> mdz: I can split usplash out into a library
[10:54] <mjg59> Then the uswsusp s2disk program can drive that while hibernating or resuming
[10:55] <mdz> don't we switch off the backlight fairly early while hibernating anyway?
[10:56] <mjg59> Yeah
[10:56] <mjg59> Which is probably less than ideal
[10:58] <Keybuk> ==21543== Syscall param exit_group(exit_code) contains uninitialised byte(s)
[10:58] <Keybuk> ==21543==    at 0x4000822: (within /lib/ld-2.4.so)
[10:59] <Keybuk> ==21543==    by 0x40488D3: (below main) (in /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc-2.4.so)
[10:59] <Keybuk> ah!  that means "you returned an uninitialised int and gcc didn't notice"
[11:01] <mjg59> mdz: Patch attached
[11:01] <mdz> hmm, I don't see it
[11:01] <mjg59> Try again?
[11:02] <mjg59> (Forgot to add a description)
[11:02] <mdz> there it is
[11:02] <sabdfl> mjg59: bling == spiftacity etc?
[11:02] <mjg59> mdz: sabdfl Yeah
[11:02] <mjg59> Erm
[11:02] <mjg59> sabdfl: yeah
[11:02] <mdz> mjg59: that isn't the first patch that seems to have gone missing from the kernel since dapper
[11:02] <sabdfl> very cool, i'll ask guys to look into that
[11:02] <mjg59> sabdfl: The X server is fully bling-enabled now already, so I've uploaded new compiz
[11:02] <mjg59> (partly stuck in new)
[11:02] <sabdfl> superb
[11:03] <mjg59> mdz: That one got submitted as part of a single larger patch
[11:03] <mdz> s/stuck/queued/, it's only been there an hour :-P
[11:03] <sabdfl> do we know any graphics visual-effects oriented developers?
[11:03] <mjg59> mdz: My fault
[11:03] <sabdfl> other than the you-know-who guys we're talking to about you-know-what :-)
[11:03] <mjg59> sabdfl: There's Dave Reveman, obviously
[11:03] <sabdfl> ?
[11:04] <mjg59> sabdfl: Wrote Xgl and large parts of compiz
[11:04] <mjg59> Probably quite happy at Novell
[11:04] <sabdfl> ah, right
[11:04] <mjg59> But Compiz is mostly being developed by someone called Quinn at the moment
[11:04] <mjg59> I'm not sure what she actually does full time
[11:04] <sabdfl> i'm thinking more "special effects"
[11:04] <mjg59> But she's been providing compiz debs for a while - the ones I uploaded are basically hers
[11:04] <sabdfl> i think there's one kind of guy likes to build the frameworks for this, and another likes to leverage it
[11:05] <mjg59> Well, this is algorithms for altering window shapes and so on
[11:05] <imbrandon> blinks*
[11:05] <mjg59> sabdfl: It's pretty specially bling
[11:05] <Seveas> mjg59, both compiz and lots of broken packages (libvte etc...) unfortunately
[11:05] <sabdfl> ok
[11:06] <mjg59> Seveas: The compiz ones seem fine. I make no judgements as to packages I've never looked at :)
[11:06] <Seveas> the compiz ones are fine ;)
[11:06] <imbrandon> mjg59:  Seveas: yea she has been working with ajmitch to get them into our repos with her changes
[11:06] <imbrandon> as of late
[11:06] <Seveas> rock
[11:06] <imbrandon> late == last 2 or 3 days iirc
[11:07] <mjg59> imbrandon: Ah - someone should possibly have mentioned :)
[11:07] <mjg59> imbrandon: Anyway, they're there now
[11:08] <mjg59> sabdfl: I've done some quick tests with usplash. It seems entirely able to get a lot of pixels on the screen quite quickly
[11:08] <mdz> pygi: the only people you need to convince are MOTU
[11:08] <pygi> mdz, ah, good then :) I can do that :)
[11:09] <imbrandon> pygi: whats up ? i missed something in the netsplit heh
[11:09] <pygi> imbrandon, ehm? :)
[11:09] <imbrandon> nvm misread something
[11:10] <sabdfl> mjg59: that may just come in handy :-)
[11:10] <_ion> Yeah, quinn's compiz and cgwd packages seem to be good from an end user's point of view.
[11:10] <mjg59> Goddamn.
[11:10] <mjg59> From a hot cache, gnome now starts in ~2 seconds
[11:11] <mjg59> From a cold cache, it's more like 20 on my Thinkpad
[11:11] <desrt> there's a lot to be said about preloading
[11:11] <gnomefreak> she just said maybe 20-30 minutes ago that the latest bugs that were found are fixed. i cant test til i figure this modules issue out
[11:11] <mjg59> The i/o really kills us on slow hard drives
[11:11] <_ion> mjg: Such as mine. :-)
[11:11] <desrt> when the login prompt is just waiting for the user to enter their name and pw
[11:11] <desrt> that's valuable preload time
[11:11] <_ion> Indeed.
[11:14] <mjg59> Does xorg.conf get rewritten on package upgrades if it hasn't been modified?
[11:14] <mjg59> Or does it just get written on a clean install?
[11:14] <mdz> mjg59: if you're keen on graphical hibernate, I'm agreeable if it could be done pre-featurefreeze and downright happy if it's backoutable
[11:15] <mjg59> mdz: Sure
[11:15] <mjg59> mdz: When's feature freeze?
[11:15] <mdz> mjg59: 2 weeks from tomorrow (7th)
[11:16] <mjg59> mdz: No problem
[11:31] <boodle> hiya,has anyone found a soln to python2.4-minimal installing cleanly in edgy? (pycentral script prob it seems)