[11:57] <jamesh> ddaa: last week's minutes are here: https://launchpad.canonical.com/BazaarMeeting20060821
[11:59] <ddaa> jamesh: thank you, I've read them already
[12:00] <ddaa> MEETING STARTS
[12:00] <ddaa> This is the Greenhouse meeting, on techniques of growing Bazaar branches in a Launchpad, if that means anything.
[12:00] <ddaa> I am just coming back from vacation, so I'll let you guys do most of the talking today.
[12:00] <ddaa> jamesh: thank you for last week's meeting minutes, it's very good.
[12:00] <ddaa> == Agenda ==
[12:00] <ddaa> * Roll call
[12:01] <ddaa> * Production status
[12:01] <ddaa> * Smart server
[12:01] <ddaa> * Advertising
[12:01] <ddaa> * vcs-imports knits
[12:01] <ddaa> * Release finder
[12:01] <ddaa> * Python import
[12:01] <ddaa> * bzr lp://
[12:01] <ddaa> * 1.0 targets
[12:01] <ddaa> * Critical bugs
[12:01] <ddaa> * Sysadmin tasks
[12:01] <ddaa> * Any other business?
[12:02] <ddaa> == Roll call ==
[12:02] <ddaa> mpool apologized.
[12:02] <spiv> I'm here
[12:02] <lifeless> hi
[12:02] <jamesh> I'm here
[12:02] <ddaa> SteveA: hey?
[12:03] <ddaa> SteveA late :P
[12:03] <ddaa> == Production status ==
[12:03] <ddaa> Anything to report?
[12:03] <ddaa> jamesh: how is the future of oops-from-scripts looking?
[12:04] <jamesh> haven't looked at it at all since last meeting
[12:04] <ddaa> lifeless: do you know if jelmer fixed the bug in bzr-svn?
[12:04] <lifeless> no
[12:04] <ddaa> We would probably have to purge the filesystem data for his branch when he has fixed them.
[12:05] <ddaa> ACTION: ddaa to bother jelmer about the bzr-svn bug
[12:05] <lifeless> he should bump his namespace
[12:05] <lifeless> the revisions are corrupt, no telling how far its spread
[12:05] <jamesh> we still need to make sure data like that doesn't get past the puller
[12:06] <ddaa> lifeless: know how we can achieve that? Past discussion we had about that I remember as inconclusive.
[12:06] <lifeless> note it in the bug thats already open
[12:07] <ddaa> ACTION: ddaa to resume discussion about filtering bad branches in the puller
[12:07] <ddaa> == Smart server ==
[12:07] <ddaa> mpool said: We've continued work, most recently pairing with Andrew on
[12:07] <ddaa> letting it be run over ssh.  Andrew can report more.
[12:07] <lifeless> ddaa: no, thats not what I said
[12:07] <lifeless> ddaa: dude, I said 'jelmer should bump his revision namespace'
[12:07] <ddaa> lifeless: okay, will say that in the bzr-svn bug
[12:08] <ddaa> but there is the separate issue that jamesh mentioned
[12:08] <ddaa> I'm happy not to fix it for now though.
[12:08] <spiv> Right, so the code to run the protocol-so-far over SSH is basically there.
[12:08] <lifeless> its not the pullers problem, I really think its purely a bzrlib bug if it happens, file a bug and we'll fix it
[12:08] <spiv> Lots of the infrastructure for that has been submitted for merging to bzr.dev, and is ready to go into 0.11
[12:09] <lifeless> talk with me after the meeting, so we dont block now. But I dont think we should design the bzrlib fetch code twice. It does not make sense.
[12:09] <ddaa> lifeless: okay. But the puller should be able to recover w/o manual intervention, and I do not think I can ATM.
[12:09] <ddaa> spiv: sounds great
[12:09] <ddaa> == Advertising ==
[12:09] <ddaa> spiv: should I make you the current owner of this task about blogging on similarities between SVN and bzr checkouts (in relation to Launchpad of course)?
[12:10] <spiv> lifeless & mpool & I will be meeting in person tomorrow to continue work on the smart server.  lifeless has figured out some good goals w.r.t. supermirror integration and HTTP integration that's the next step.
[12:10] <SteveA> hi
[12:10] <SteveA> i'm on a public holiday
[12:10] <jamesh> after the next rollout, we'll be able to advertise that --create-prefix isn't necessary anymore
[12:10] <spiv> ddaa: yes, in fact I've actually got a draft already
[12:10] <ddaa> Okay, sorry for not taking notes, I have not yet handled the email backlog.
[12:10] <ddaa> SteveA: ^
[12:11] <ddaa> When the fixes to the greenhouse UI are rolled out, I'll probably post something about that too. People have been asking for that for a long time.
[12:11] <lifeless> greenhouse ?
[12:11] <ddaa> launchpad-bazaar = greenhouse
[12:11] <lifeless> did I miss something ?
[12:12] <ddaa> There was some discussion in the past about that, sabdfl appeared keen to have a cute name, and I like a shorter name.
[12:12] <ddaa> So I sent an email to the launchpad mailing list to "codify the status quo"
[12:12] <lifeless> oh :(. Its about as good as dyson was IMO.
[12:13] <ddaa> lifeless: I'll adopt anything you can agree on with sabdfl
[12:13] <lifeless> how about launchpad-bazaar? Clear, precise, to the point.
[12:14] <jamesh> ddaa: most areas of Launchpad are being debranded in the UI (e.g. blueprint => features), so at most it would be an internal codename
[12:14] <SteveA> it will be called "code" in the launchpad UI
[12:14] <ddaa> I'm not the one pushing for using cute code names. I'm merely trying to make the boss happy, and taking the opportunity to save a few keystrokes.
[12:15] <SteveA> I see where you're coming from.  Honestly, I think it creates more keystrokes all round.
[12:15] <SteveA> because people have to ask about it
[12:15] <SteveA> and it isn't a "sticky in your mind" name like "rosetta"
[12:16] <ddaa> SteveA: I'm happy to abandon "greenhouse", but please post a followup to my mail on the launchpad mailing list.
[12:16] <ddaa> I have no desire to risk an argument with sabdfl about that issue.
[12:16] <SteveA> I dont think it is even worth discussing
[12:17] <jamesh> should we move on?
[12:17] <ddaa> Okay, then the issue is closed.
[12:17] <SteveA> we can just agree to use the obvious "launchpad-bazaar"
[12:17] <ddaa> == vcs-imports knits ==
[12:17] <ddaa> Apparently all deployed.
[12:17] <ddaa> Still a couple of outstanding bzr branches. Have been reviewed, will act on reviews during the week and coordinate with lifeless about getting the patches in rocketfuel.
[12:17] <ddaa> ACTION: ddaa to advance merging of outstanding bzr fixes into rocketfuel.
[12:17] <SteveA> and we'll understand mark or others if they use "greenhose"
[12:17] <ddaa> SteveA: ++
[12:17] <SteveA> but we can choose to use "launchpad bazaar"
[12:18] <ddaa> lifeless: anything interesting to report about the progress of those patch in the bazaarsphere?
[12:18] <lifeless> ddaa: they are both in the stack of patches spiv is managing
[12:19] <ddaa> spiv: does that mean that I do not have to do any more on those patches?
[12:20] <ddaa> silence is consent
[12:20] <ddaa> == Release finder ==
[12:20] <ddaa> jamesh: did stub do a test run on staging this week, as reported on the last meeting?
[12:20] <jamesh> yes
[12:20] <spiv> I don't know anything about ddaa's upgrade-no-workingtree branch
[12:20] <ddaa> spiv: okay, then I'll apply some traction there.
[12:20] <spiv> But the list_dir one I'm on top of, yes.
[12:20] <jamesh> ran into another bug (bug 57220), which I'm working on a fix for
[12:21] <jamesh> hopefully we'll complete a full run with that problem fixed.
[12:21] <lifeless> spiv: I referred it to you in reply to a mail from John on the list. 
[12:21] <spiv> lifeless: Thanks, I'll take a look
[12:22] <ddaa> jamesh: good, so next week I'll ask about the outcome of the full staging run
[12:22] <jamesh> yep
[12:22] <ddaa> == Python import ==
[12:22] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/56360
[12:22] <ddaa> Was on leave, so made no progress on that.
[12:22] <ddaa> Plan to look at this problem, but after acting on outstanding patches and giving spec feedback. Probably not come around to it this week.
[12:23] <ddaa> == bzr lp:// ==
[12:23] <ddaa> Last week's action were:
[12:23] <ddaa> spiv: read the spec
[12:23] <ddaa> mpool: read/integrate comments
[12:23] <ddaa> Progress?
[12:23] <spiv> I'm pretty sure I gave feedback on the spec.
[12:24] <spiv> Yeah, I did.
[12:24] <jamesh> you appear to have, yes.
[12:24] <ddaa> Okay, so the ball is in mpool's camp.
[12:24] <spiv> Yep.
[12:25] <ddaa> ACTION: mpool to read/integrate comments on BranchIndirection
[12:25] <ddaa> == 1.0 targets ==
[12:25] <ddaa> smart server: is that still on track for the end-of-month deadline?
[12:25] <ddaa> importd bzr transition: the essential functionality was delivered. I'd like to put that on hold until we have the new hire, and have him do the Arch support wipeout.
[12:25] <ddaa> SteveA: is that okay? Hom to update the spec?
[12:25] <ddaa> bzr-roundtrip-svn: in my understanding, we will achieve that by replacing cscvs by bzr-svn when/if we feel comfortable enough with that. 
[12:26] <lifeless> I thought roundtrip was cancelled for now
[12:26] <ddaa> roundtrip-svn: that means the status of this spec should be changed, since no further action is expected before 1.0
[12:26] <ddaa> I got heat from sabdfl by closing the spec as "not for us", because it means something specific to ubuntu folks.
[12:27] <ddaa> So I restored it to the previous status.
[12:27] <lifeless> apparently it means 'never'
[12:28] <lifeless> as roundtrip is clearly a nice thing to do if we ever get around to it, I'd say 'low'
[12:28] <ddaa> quoting sabdfl:
[12:28] <ddaa>  "Not for us" has a specific meaning, in the text of any spec with that status you will see it. Basically it means "this spec is regarded as pointless and not interesting to the project managers, we will not land any code for this even if you contribute it". 
[12:28] <ddaa> If you want to say "we are not going to work on this now", then Lowpriority would be more appropriate.
[12:28] <jamesh> "not for us" was coined as a nicer way of saying bugger off
[12:28] <ddaa> Should we also remove the 1.0 target as well?
[12:29] <jamesh> if it isn't a 1.0 target anymore, then I'd guess so
[12:29] <ddaa> I'd guess so, but you know what you say about burned cats.
[12:29] <ddaa> spiv: is smart-server on track for the end-of-month deadline?
[12:30] <ddaa> SteveA: do you agree on postponing Arch cleanups to give to the new recruit?
[12:31] <lifeless> SteveA is not here
[12:31] <lifeless> the smart server is not complete.
[12:31] <ddaa> Ah, right. On holiday...
[12:31] <SteveA> ddaa: I have no idea of how extensive the arch cleanups are
[12:31] <lifeless> we're aiming to land the core transport and get launchpad support for it in side the 0.11 dev cycle
[12:32] <SteveA> as in, how long it would take one knowledgeable, capable person to do so
[12:32] <spiv> What lifeless said :)
[12:32] <ddaa> lifeless: does that leave enough room to get it up on launchpad by the end of the month?
[12:33] <lifeless> no
[12:33] <lifeless> 'not finished'
[12:33] <ddaa> So I think we need to say this spec will be late. Okay.
[12:33] <jamesh> end of the month is 3 days away
[12:34] <ddaa> jamesh: I mean the end of next month :)
[12:34] <lifeless> ddaa: then you might have said
[12:34] <lifeless> yes, we will have the core support rolled out by end of next month
[12:35] <lifeless> IF things go smoothly, that might include the performance improvements too
[12:35] <ddaa> SteveA: I think a couple of days for me. It's large and sweeping but simple now. I'm suggesting to postpone because I think that's a good exercice for the new recruit to see a lot of the importd code.
[12:35] <lifeless> this is my compatriot ?
[12:36] <ddaa> lifeless: I think it would be good to get something up on launchpad once there is working code, so we can shake down potential operational issues in parallel with performance improvements.
[12:36] <ddaa> well, s/we/spiv/
[12:37] <ddaa> lifeless: yes
[12:37] <lifeless> ddaa: we have a plan for that that is low risk, and staged
[12:37] <lifeless> ddaa: can we move on?
[12:37] <ddaa> I'm still not clear on whether the feature is on target, but let's move on.
[12:38] <ddaa> == Critical bugs ==
[12:38] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/bugs/31308 Cannot set branch associated to a product series.
[12:38] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/bugs/37897 renaming project, product or series breaks vcs imports.
[12:38] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/bugs/51130 cannot use +admin on a branch I own
[12:38] <ddaa> I plan to act on reviews for 37897 and 51130 this week.
[12:38] <ddaa> Plan to start work on 31308 after that and spec feedback, so late this week or early next week along with bug 56360.
[12:38] <ddaa> IOW, I do not plan to do any new stuff this week.
[12:38] <ddaa> == Sysadmin tasks ==
[12:38] <ddaa> == Any other business? ==
[12:39] <jamesh> none from me
[12:40] <ddaa> mbp said something about
[12:40] <ddaa> new item: Strategic planning document: mbp will need feedback on this
[12:40] <ddaa> from people in the launchpad-bazaar team; watch for mail in next couple
[12:40] <ddaa> of days.  If you have ideas let me know.
[12:41] <ddaa> Not sure exactly what that means, but I think it's related to the post-1.0 planning discussion.
[12:41] <lifeless> its not
[12:41] <lifeless> watch for a mail
[12:42] <ddaa> Okay. Then if there's nothing more to discuss
[12:42] <ddaa> the bazhouse meeting can be closed
[12:42] <ddaa> or the greenzaar
[12:42] <ddaa> MEETING CLOSED
[12:43] <ddaa> Thank you everybody for attending.
[12:43] <ddaa> oh right
[12:44] <ddaa> ACTION: spiv and ddaa to review PrivateBranches again
[12:44] <ddaa> I think I saw something from spiv recently, will try to do my part this week too.
[12:44] <SteveA> ddaa: so, I don't think doing the arch removal stuff is good material for the new bzr=launchpad recruit
[12:45] <SteveA> i think implementing private branches would be better, for example
[12:46] <ddaa> Okay, if that's what you think.
[12:47] <ddaa> We'll talk next week about how to prioritize that work against the Python import and the native-productseries-branch thing.
[12:47] <SteveA> ok
[12:47] <SteveA> to save me asking tomorrow...
[12:47] <SteveA> what do you plan to do during this week?
[12:47] <ddaa> Email catchup
[12:48] <ddaa> Reply to reviews, try to get outstanding branches merged.
[12:48] <ddaa> I have a lot of those.
[12:49] <ddaa> So I expect that to keep me busy until friday at least. I may have some time at the end of the week to start doing some new stuff.
[12:49] <SteveA> what are the branches?
[12:49] <ddaa> david/bzr/upgrade-no-workingtree
[12:49] <ddaa> david/launchpad/importd-bzr-native
[12:49] <ddaa> david/launchpad/branch-edit
[12:49] <ddaa> david/launchpad/importd-publish-source
[12:50] <ddaa> The latter is going to need some doing to deploy too.
[12:53] <ddaa> Also, do PrivateBranches spec review and maybe some BranchIndirection.
[12:53] <ddaa> SteveA: sounds reasonable?
[12:54] <SteveA> what is branch-edit about?
[12:55] <ddaa> Letting people change the name, owner and product of branches.
[12:57] <SteveA> ok
[12:57] <SteveA> I've got a lot on this week, but I'd like to keep up with how these things are going
[12:57] <SteveA> would you ping me occassionally on irc for a brief chat about how things are going?
[12:58] <ddaa> If you wish, I can report daily.
[12:58] <ddaa> But I expect that to be relatively uneventful.
[12:58] <SteveA> that's fine
[12:58] <SteveA> thanks!
[12:59] <ddaa> have a nice holiday
[12:59] <ddaa> and get away from the computer
[01:05] <SteveA> thanks, and I will