[12:08] Kamion: how was your trip home? [12:08] Kamion; nobody really uses openoffice, ... [12:09] Keybuk: uneventful [12:09] or that firefox thing ;-) [12:09] (just how I like it) [12:09] apt-get install epiphany-browser, baby [12:09] Kamion: those foomatic ppds people claim aren't used? [12:09] people suggesting things that won't happen, please don't bother - I'm serious here [12:10] foomatic> hmm, would like opinion from printing gurus before doing that [12:10] anything you remove will step on at least one or two toes [12:10] Kamion: we ship several different gnome icon themes [12:10] desrt: not if I remove the stuff that was only just added [12:11] and honestly, I'm not that bothered about toes, but removing openoffice and firefox would step on sabdfl's toes and I like my job [12:11] Kamion; then you step on recently placed toes. those hurt a lot. [12:11] desrt: *shrug* [12:11] :) [12:11] changes introducing breakage can and should be reverted [12:11] Kamion: hehe [12:11] but I'd like to know if the people who committed those changes have any suggestions [12:12] fonts are a distant possibility, but that's a tricky one too [12:12] right. so y'all ship dejavu these days, right? [12:12] doesn't that, in theory, mean that you shouldn't be shipping all of the various codeset-specific fonts.... === desrt blogged about the pain caused by this the other day [12:13] Kamion: perhaps a few ttf- packages? For instance, I see ttf-bitstream-vera and ttf-dejavu for ubuntu-desktop. [12:13] arg, too late. [12:13] speaking of fonts, I wonder if that caused emacs21 to have such ugly fonts be default... [12:13] crimsun; dejavu should stay [12:13] it's stuff like ttf-kochi-* that's the real hugeness, but removing those would regress Japanese support [12:14] ttf-bitstream-vera is 354028 bytes. who cares? [12:14] Kamion; kochi looks nice but is incomplete [12:14] Kamion: could we look at having language packs Recommend on fonts (along with install recommends by default) [12:14] Kamion; if you use kochi you end up getting one character in kochi and the next one (which isn't in kochi) rendered in a different font -- looks awful [12:15] desrt: honestly, I want an opinion from native Japanese people before nuking it [12:15] Riddell: FYI I'm trying to co-operate with KleanSweep's author to see how we can produce a unified system cleaning tool :-) [12:15] Riddell: doesn't particularly help - there's no size gain unless we remove them from the CD and that is politically difficult [12:15] Kamion: of course [12:15] Riddell: if you want to run that particular gauntlet with sabdfl, silbs, and mdz, you're welcome :) [12:15] Kamion; a good call. the girl who complained to me about the problem was chinese. they are not to be trusted on issues about the japanese :) [12:16] sivang: I don't even know what KleanSweep does :) [12:16] I would expect Chinese to use characters not in kochi [12:16] Kamion; kanji is kanji [12:16] same codepoints in unicode regardless of the language you're in [12:16] Riddell: very perliminiary go at a tool for cleaning duplicates , borken binaries and stuff [12:16] my understanding has always been that that is a huge oversimplification [12:17] Kamion; different languages hint the characters to be displayed slightly differently [12:17] look, I'm not listening until you get a Japanese person to say that they don't need kochi. :) [12:17] Kamion; point is -- you're probably right about the japanese thing [12:17] i'm just explaining why it was a problem for her [12:18] Riddell: but already ahead of me, with a KDE GUI (plans are to have QT independent one) and a perl script as a backend. It's currently targetted for the experienced user (as many of KDE's stuff are) but hopefully together with the author who seems keen for getting involved in Kubuntu/Ubuntu we'll make it nice and easy. [12:18] I wouldn't say kde is targeted at experienced users... [12:18] is ekiga on the cd? [12:18] Riddell: (e.g. it requires that you know which duplicates can be removed, and which files that do not belong to any package need to stay) [12:18] because seriously... nobody uses ekiga [12:19] desrt: a bunch of Canonical employees would disagree with you there [12:19] it's at least several orders of magnatude between the users of fspot and ekiga [12:19] Kamion: example-content would buy us 20MB ... could strip something out of that [12:19] Kamion; canonical employees are not "human beings" [12:19] thanks much [12:19] Keybuk; touchy [12:19] the dapper ogg alone would be 11MB [12:20] also, how about using ogg vorbis in ubuntu-sounds? [12:20] Keybuk: gnome icon themes> what are the sizes? [12:20] can you drop bluetooth apps off install? to free up room? [12:20] desrt: though Mark is now telling everybody edgy will definitely come with mono [12:20] so taking that out would be equally touchy [12:20] hmmm..Mono... [12:20] Keybuk: desrt isn't suggesting taking out mono [12:20] Keybuk; i was going to suggest example content earlier but i understand it has a special place in some important hearts... [12:21] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11137689 2006-05-24 15:37 Experience ubuntu.ogg [12:21] crimsun: that's kind of the big one already ... [12:21] gnomefreak: they're not that big [12:21] clearly, we need bigger CDs [12:21] or different compression [12:21] gnomefreak: see sizes in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/edgy/desktop before making suggestions [12:21] lol bigger cd's = dvds === lionelp [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:21] or shorter .oggs [12:21] tbh, I really can't find anything to remove === desrt wonders how big ekiga is, even [12:22] the example content video does seem like a likely candidate [12:22] 3.6MB. Useful, but not sufficient in itself [12:22] 3650936 [12:22] (1.2mb installed) [12:22] it has a lot of exotic deps [12:23] no thats not right === desrt wonders what libpt is [12:23] I wouldn't be too opposed to taking out ekiga - would need to talk with sabdfl though [12:24] oh. i have a good one. nice and controversial [12:24] humans don't read /usr/share/doc [12:25] not happening [12:25] yet every single package ships a few k of junk there [12:25] what about gthumb? does almost the same as f-spot... but that's only ~1,1 mb === sivang recalls the rpath guys don't ship it and have infras. to take it out [12:25] Kamion: what about dropping hwdb-client? I see kubuntu already has [12:25] slomo; you need gthumb for picture import to work [12:25] Burgundavia: 2.1MB, not sufficient [12:25] slomo; unless fspot also does a camera-import sort of thing === givre__ [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-39-81.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:25] Burgundavia: and anyway, kubuntu never had it [12:25] combine it with a few other removals [12:25] check facts first [12:26] thats boring ;) [12:26] desrt: afaik it does, i don't know that much about f-spot... better ask ajmitch ;) === lucas1 [n=javier@217.Red-80-25-51.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [12:26] Burgundavia: no, kubuntu added hwdb-client [12:27] Riddell: right [12:27] what about it? === shackan [n=shackan@host192-14.pool871.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:27] desrt: yes of course f-spot does imports [12:27] desrt: thats the main use case [12:27] then gthumb is a good candidate for the chopping block [12:27] it is [12:27] we could do eog as well [12:28] but you should read the lengthy thread of tears on -devel [12:28] take away eog and i'll remove your hands [12:28] desrt: I use those! [12:28] Burgundavia: not eog... it has different use cases than f-spot [12:28] about "my favorite gthumb feature i will kick and scream about if you replace it" [12:28] and i use eog. [12:28] some of them were eog features [12:28] desrt: you don't get to use "you guys aren't human beings" without also considering yourself not a human being, incidentally :P [12:28] slomo: currently yes. f-spot just needs a "simple browse mode" [12:29] Kamion; it's fair... but jpegs and pngs open automatically in eog [12:29] Kamion; i know human beings use it en masse if only by that property alone === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman [n=gman@nwkea-socks-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:30] xscreensaver-gl, perhaps? I'm thinking trimming multiple packages. [12:30] ya.. you could split out the screensavers into -core and -extras [12:31] but then you have a whole new microdebate [12:31] they're split to some extent already according to the xscreensaver- descriptions, but my rationale is that the package doesn't actually provide any added functionality. [12:32] a friend just called. i told him about the discussion we're having. his first question: "wtf is ekiga?" [12:32] he's been an ubuntu user for almost 2 years :) [12:32] gnome-meeting ;) === chris38-home [n=Christia@mut38-4-82-233-119-151.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sivang wonders why the name changed at all, it's still same software isn't it? [12:34] sivang: because it's a VoIP soft phone now, not a netmeeting client [12:34] indeed [12:34] crimsun: xscreensaver-gl is also a sabdfl item, I'm afraid - he took a personal interest in that [12:34] ah [12:34] Kamion: is there anything left in desktop that sabdfl _hasn't_ taken a personal interest in? [12:35] Keybuk: there are probably a few niche items :P [12:35] is pitti around next week? [12:35] I think he's canoeing [12:35] Kamion: computer says No [12:35] bugger, was hoping to get weigh-in on the foomatic-filters-ppds suggestion [12:36] mdz is away, sabdfl is away [12:36] oh, sabdfl is away too? meep [12:36] so they won't be able to complain... [12:36] Kamion: knot2 is targetted for later this week, no? (just want to know when I need to finally finish that bloody Knot2 page) [12:36] fabbione is away [12:36] Keybuk: ah [12:36] Burgundavia: yes, assuming I can resolve this issue === didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:36] right [12:36] iwj is away [12:36] err [12:37] IS ANYONE AT WORK THIS WEEK ?! [12:37] I am, though not Monday [12:38] (bank holiday) [12:38] indeed [12:38] I'll be still on the way back from Cambridge tomorrow [12:38] still at the BBQ? must have been a good party [12:38] yeah [12:41] anyone have comments on the suggested removal of foomatic-db-gutenprint? === welshbyte [n=welshbyt@cpc1-whit1-0-0-cust45.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:43] wouldn't a subversion extension for nautilus be useful? me and kov are writing one [12:44] Kamion: removing it now is fairly painless, because we have another knot to readd it back in [12:45] indeed [12:46] Kamion: the fact that I know nothing about that package could be a sign [12:47] it's not [12:47] printer drivers sound important to me [12:47] no offence, but lots of people don't know about printer driver [12:47] s [12:47] Riddell: cupsys-driver-gutenprint apparently does everything necessary [12:48] the claim is that foomatic-db-gutenprint is only needed for lpr and lprng spoolers, not cupsys [12:48] Riddell: printer drivers are a general mess [12:49] could test out if pitti has phone signal in his tent [12:49] I've removed foomatic-db-gutenprint for now [12:51] Riddell: part of the issue, afaict, there is no "central clearing house" for all printer drivers, that does a timely release. Gutenprint does some and linuxprinting.org has others [12:52] Kamion: is that enough free space? otherwise i would suggest gthumb additionally [12:53] we should probably only ship with gthumb OR f-spot, we might want to remove gthumb to get additional testing on f-spots weakness' [12:55] slomo: see http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ [12:55] we need getting on for 30MB [12:56] I think I might well unilaterally drop "Experience Ubuntu.ogg" and apologise to sabdfl later [12:57] Kamion: example content can be trimmed. It is only really important for the final release anyway [12:57] gthumb seems a reasonable suggestion (if controversial), but it's only 1MB [12:57] 95% of the users of edgy have already seen that video [12:57] Burgundavia: if something is going to come back in for the final release, then we need to reserve space for it early [12:57] yep [12:57] but granted on the second point [12:59] yes === LaserJock runs to go watch it before it's gone :-) [01:01] mdke: ping [01:01] hello [01:01] what is the correct syntax to mark a bug as fixed through the changelog? [01:02] oho, there are in fact a lot of language packs I can trim [01:02] that helps :) [01:02] though maybe doesn't help Edubuntu === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-39-81.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:04] heh, poor Edubuntu, always so fat ;-) [01:04] yeah, get rid of the lebowskistan locales [01:05] languagesupport-whiterussian? === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DA7BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:19] Kamion: presumably edubuntu doesn't have mono? [01:19] f-spot seems less good for just quickly browsing through a directory of images (on a throwaway basis) than gthumb is [01:19] Kamion: that is what eog is for [01:19] Riddell: nope [01:19] Kamion: right, but that's what nautilus and/or eog are for [01:19] eog can do what gthumb can in terms of browsing [01:20] (and f-spot could with a few hours of hacking) [01:20] tseng: it would be glorious of f-spot could have a simple/fast browse mode [01:20] Burgundavia: its "faster" than eog according to larry [01:20] hmm, true, eog is ok [01:21] Burgundavia: it just doesnt switch through the directory easily [01:21] f-spot is impressively fast, I must admit [01:21] it's one of the first things that struck me about it === jdub hopes lewing has time to tidy up the f-spot viewer mode [01:21] Keybuk: it handles large libraries significantly better than iphoto [01:21] tseng: yes [01:22] Keybuk: which is something we can pimp the hell out of if someone does a scientific write up [01:22] miguel has only done wallclock [01:23] if someone has some fancy european beer larry is into or something... [01:23] bribe away [01:25] eog is also part of "gnome", i am not sure how much that will anger upstream if we remove it [01:25] jdub: ? [01:26] tseng: nowt i suspect, it's not really an integration target [01:27] more of a user acceptance issue, i think [01:27] well the biggest complaint is the browsing [01:27] probably by a vocal minority [01:27] Heya tseng [01:27] I imagine there is another group of users that don't know or care what eog is [01:28] and that it can browse directories like that [01:28] hello, Burgundavia [01:28] and bddebian ... === tseng masters tab [01:28] heh [01:34] users need a fast way of browsing pictures [01:34] how they do that is totally immaterial to 95% [01:34] jdub: same question (angering upstream) for ekiga [01:34] I disagree with removing eog because fspot viewer mode isn't up to snuff yet [01:34] Wow everybody's here :-) [01:36] Kamion: one of the key reason I would support keeping ekiga in the desktop is to make people aware of the alternatives to skype [01:37] reasons, rather [01:37] Burgundavia: MS NetChat or whatever it is === Keybuk [n=scott@lump.einval.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:37] that too [01:37] I never saw anyone use it. [01:38] Kamion: want to remove it for space reasons, or...? [01:38] jdub: space, maybe [01:39] there are other candidates of course, there always are, but it's one of the ones that's been suggested on a less-widely-used basis [01:39] although I see it was one of the top new features listed for GNOME 2.14 [01:40] which is of course interesting since we've been shipping gnomemeeting/ekiga since warty ;) [01:40] Kamion: what came in 2.14 was SIP support [01:41] Kamion: maybe wait to remove ekiga until the telepathy stack is ready to rock [01:41] Kamion: it is a useful feature to be able to talk about [01:41] Burgundavia: oh, good point, I misread [01:41] will telepathy be any smaller? :) [01:41] Kamion: i don't think "angering upstream" is going to be much of a factor though [01:41] jdub: google talk would be alot more wideless useful than an arbitrary sip server [01:41] jdub: (i think) [01:41] wideley [01:41] agreed on useful headline feature - although I do think that folks shouldn't limit themselves to talking about what's installed by default [01:41] widely [01:41] Kamion: yeah, probably (though it brings in a bunch of libs) [01:42] Kamion: yeah, same FirstAgainstTheWall problem with GIMP [01:42] mm, that's not one I'm keen to do either [01:43] we could increase to 800MB CDs? [01:43] I wish we had a better option for fonts, but desupporting non-ISO-8859-* speakers without network connections doesn't make me a happy bunny [01:43] Keybuk: ... or not [01:43] Kamion: any particular reason why not? [01:43] Keybuk: you can field ALL the support requests [01:43] it's edgy, half the crap won't run without modern hardware, so you're likely to have a CD writer made in the last decade [01:44] because, unlike the last time we increased the CD size we demanded, there is not a clear majority of media out there capable of 800MB [01:44] Kamion: perhaps we could think about removing non-ttf 100dpi/75dpi fonts... [01:44] Keybuk: people have spools of 750mb cds sitting around [01:44] meh, that's trye I guess [01:44] come on, most media one buys in the shop isn't 800MB [01:44] that they expect to use [01:44] 750MB is the more prevalent media === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:44] forgot about that === Fjodor [n=sune@0x55510b65.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:44] and I'll get all the complaints. I already got complaints about the dapper.0 powerpc CD being too big to burn with some software/media, and that was 703MB or something [01:45] jdub: hmm, doesn't sound popular with the older-Unix crowd, and they'd blog about it [01:46] Kamion: how much of our software realistically requires it these days? [01:46] as far as fonts go, ttf-* are the heavyweight ones [01:46] this is a non-win discussion [01:46] hrm, i guess there's a bunch of tcl/tk things, and old school X stuff [01:46] we're at the point where we can't justify removing much at all [01:46] jdub: if you dislike gnome-terminal and like fast terminals :-), you want old X fonts [01:47] Kamion: not scalable old X fonts [01:47] you can totally remove gimp [01:47] jdub: ttf-scalable is 344KB [01:47] er, I mean xfonts-scalable [01:47] i guess example content was (literally) a no-go? [01:47] g-a-i is at a point where removing things like gimp is viable [01:47] desrt: I've sent mail about it [01:48] gimp also sounds like a negative blog publicity attractor [01:48] removing it, that is [01:49] btw guys: for what it's worth i hear a lot of people talk about how awesome it is that ubuntu still fits on one CD [01:49] Kamion: not sure you should be ruled by negative blog publicity [01:49] jdub: not ruled by it, but PR is worth considering [01:49] desrt: it doesn't fit :) the CD is a very difficultly laced corset :p [01:49] desrt: that's certainly not something we plan to change in the near future [01:49] with usefully published rationale people can point to, i think removing gimp is entirely understandable [01:49] Keybuk: :-) [01:50] jdub: you always wanted to get rid of it, though :) [01:50] there are others more attached to it [01:50] (clearly stating the rationale and fact that it can be installed very easily from supported set) [01:50] I'm not saying no, just saying I put it further away from the wall than you do [01:50] Kamion: well, no, i always had it on my list of things that could be removed at some point in the future because they were inessential [01:51] fwiw: fspot now doing redeye and cropping removes 90% of the raison-de-etre of gimp installed by defeault [01:51] if we had "gimp elements" that should totally go on the cd :-) [01:51] I'm a little concerned that we've been letting printing stuff grow without end because too few developers understand it [01:52] gimp elements? [01:52] Kamion: riffing on "photoshop elements" (the cut down easy version of it) [01:52] Kamion: photoshop elements is a cutedown version of photoshop that has been flying off the shelves [01:52] ah [01:52] jdub; removing gimp is likely to go over better, too, than removing, say, abiword [01:53] Burgundavia: Yes [01:53] desrt: abiword isn't on the CD (or are you making a hub joke?) [01:53] I can the blog post now "Ubuntu sabatoges the GIMP" [01:53] jdub; not a hub joke. abiword developer persecution complex joke. [01:53] mjg59: thanks [01:53] Burgundavia: Let me know if it causes any problems - I believe it to be safe now [01:53] jdub; abiword got removed from some fedora cd a while back and planet was ablaze [01:53] desrt: you could replace all of those big words with "hub" and still be utterly accurate :) [01:54] jdub; it's not just hub :) [01:54] wow, x-lite just got vastly less sucky === desrt still thinks that /usr/share/doc could go [01:55] it might not be the debian way... but seriously... no real human uses that directory [01:55] How about a DSU? (Damn Small Ubuntu) to fit on a USB Stick :-) [01:55] bddebian: just get a 1-gig USB stick. ;) [01:56] maswan: Have you seen DSL? [01:56] bddebian: I think I've heard of it [01:56] bddebian: no personal experience with DSL though [01:56] It's actually quite cool === theCore [n=alex@modemcable069.137-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:57] desrt: they do when they're pointed at it [01:57] I'm not interested in removing documentation. seriously. [01:57] /usr/share/doc isn't documentation [01:58] I'm especially not interested in removing documentation when it would take hundreds of uploads to implement [01:58] rubbish === jdub turns up the channel air conditioning [01:58] the hundreds of uploads thing is a good argument [01:58] and we're not removing changelogs. no way. too useful for us [01:58] the internet is a one-to-one function that maps version numbers to changelogs [01:58] hundreds of uploads> that's just for the CD [01:58] jdub: :-) [01:58] it must be nice for you to have internet everywhere you go, even when you're travelling [01:59] Kamion; only costs $50/mo too [01:59] perhaps you could share your technology [01:59] or your money [01:59] heh === EdgyEft [n=seveas@87.250.150.82] has joined #ubuntu-devel === exobuzz [n=jools@82.70.241.14] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lamont [n=lamont@15.238.4.198] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ubuntulog [i=ubuntulo@trider-g7.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bddebian 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asw [n=asw@134.174.150.46] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Traxer|off [i=traxer@shell6.powershells.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:irc.freenode.net] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with edgy) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | 6.06.1 released === sladen [i=paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:11] Sheesh === HrdwrBoB [n=matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-076-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ozamosi [n=ozamosi@ubuntu/member/ozamosi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Ubugtu [n=bugbot@ubuntu/bot/ubugtu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Yagisan [n=Yagisan@60-241-255-163.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:13] welcome, everyone, to freenode [02:13] the OFFICIAL network of the ubuntu project [02:13] enjoy your stay [02:13] (it may be short) === bluefoxicy [n=bluefox@c-68-33-112-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jamesh [n=james@203-59-178-78.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === aba_ [i=aba@redruth.greenbean.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:14] desrt: be nice [02:14] Kamion: not to mention licence zealots === Naked [i=naked@naked.iki.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sivang [i=sivan@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vuntz [n=vuntz@fennas.vuntz.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === torkel [i=torkel@69-188.umenet.t3.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === G0SUB [i=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marsu [n=user@c83-248-240-16.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:15] oh right. the GPL has some sort of a clause about that === Naked is now known as Hadaka === EdgyEft [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@ppp-70-246-16-31.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:15] oh good [02:15] "a replacement ircd server tree" [02:15] how nih === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:16] Keybuk; hm? [02:16] Keybuk: I would have thought you would support that :) [02:16] lilospam [02:16] oh. i finally ignored lilo!*@* === desrt got sick of freenode's prefered hostname format changing on a weekly basis and causing lilo to evade his previous bans [02:17] the internet was fine in 1995 [02:17] it all worked [02:18] August 95 ? [02:18] exobuzz: for about 20k people [02:18] well around that time and before. [02:18] :-) [02:18] and i dont ever remember getting a popup, or even adverts ont he www [02:18] if y'all think this is bad you should have been on efnet in the late 90s [02:18] just real information [02:18] now _that_ was a party [02:18] aah the irc war period ? [02:18] oh yes [02:18] check my clone bots. etc etc [02:18] man, undernet === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:19] lilo is merely incompetent. back then you had people actively trying to take down irc servers [02:19] Heya lifeless [02:19] desrt: that was awful [02:19] desrt: we moved our local channel from ircnet to gimpnet back then [02:19] gimpnet.. thats a wonderful name .. [02:19] and efnet had like 50x the population of (then) openprojects [02:19] ah, freenode is starting to get a resonably high user count these days though === Robot101 [n=robot101@light.bluelinux.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:20] you know, the gimp is very nice piece of software, but it probably should rename if it wants to be taken serously in the business world.. or maybe it doesnt === seaLne [n=seaLne@ubuntu/member/sealne] has joined #ubuntu-devel === whiprush [i=52b00a45@64.62.190.212] has joined #ubuntu-devel === anibal [i=ams@ns1.mssinc.biz] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:20] even now it's 10x... efnet is very peaceful by comparison :) === chesty [n=chesty@unconcerned.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:20] exobuzz: it is being renamed [02:20] it is ? what to ? [02:20] it'll now be the sadomasochistic submissive personality with a distinct rubber fetish [02:20] (prizes to anyone who can backronym *that*) [02:21] you want a backronym to the entire thing, or just to tsspwadrf? === Gman [n=gman@nwkea-socks-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:21] sounds a bit like sabdfl === Keybuk activates an emergency mind-wipe [02:22] desrt: btw, ircnet is nice and quiet these days too [02:22] SAdo suB with Distinct Fetish.... [02:22] sudo apt-get install sadsubpwidruft [02:22] maswan; i think they learned a lot of leasons from the irc wars about how to make a network withstand anything === kylem [n=kyle@cabal.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:22] desrt: yup [02:23] maswan; washed-up efnet server admins are probably really good people to have on staff :) === neuralis [n=krstic@solarsail.hcs.HARVARD.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:23] desrt: still, the kiddies that wield 10+ GBit/s packeting still can make an impact [02:23] desrt: they're too washed up [02:24] maswan; you can only do so much.... [02:24] well. if it wasnt for all the bloody remote controlled pc's [02:24] "bill gates made efnet suck!" [02:24] and that's partly microsofts fault for not addressing security earlier on [02:24] hah. yup. [02:25] desrt: I remember back when the current generation of our nren was new, they made a point of "hey, we took 1.5Gbit/s of DDoS and we delivered the packets. poor server, but the network didn't go down." [02:25] its also partly the fault of people like "my mum" who open up emails with attachments which advertise "pretty screensaver" [02:25] "poor server" is a funny concept :) [02:25] exobuzz: again reminding us why it would have been useful to separate "display" and "execute". :/ [02:26] i mean... if you really think about it you'll find it quite amusing :) === jdub [n=jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:26] maswan: yeh [02:26] so, as well as upstart, I'm going to write a daemon that you install to make your machine run faster [02:26] jdub; welcome back. [02:26] it'll shave 5s or so off the boot process, make all apps start faster and use less memory [02:26] I shall call it "placebo" === maswan double-clicks on Keybuk's irc statement in the hope of making stuff go fast [02:26] Keybuk; can't we just have people install gentoo for that? [02:26] Keybuk; i hear it feels a lot faster [02:27] oh, call it "placeboo" [02:27] of course it feels faster when you have been waiting 4 days for something to compile! [02:27]