[01:09] <bddebian> Howdy
[01:13] <Burgwork> hey bddebian 
[01:13] <bddebian> Heya Burgwork
[02:12] <LaserJock> hi, thanks
[02:13] <LaserJock> whiprush: originally, as you saw, I was going to implement that spec via sabayon profiles
[02:13] <whiprush> I don't think you can do menu stuff with sabayon
[02:13] <LaserJock> well, you can, if you have 1 profiles per user
[02:14] <LaserJock> but the dynamic aspect of the menus comes from students being able to be in multiple groups and those groups changing
[02:14] <LaserJock> so currently I'm implementing my own thing
[02:15] <whiprush> how will that work?
[02:15] <LaserJock> where when a user logs in they get shuffled off to their own menu file
[02:16] <LaserJock> basically each dynamic menu user gets an application.menu file in /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/user/
[02:16] <LaserJock> and at login I have an Xsession.d script that sets XDG_CONFIG_DIRS to that directory
[02:16] <LaserJock> I think it will work ok
[02:17] <whiprush> yeah that'll work
[02:17] <LaserJock> but my biggest problem is that the group .menu files don't have an easy way of being editied
[02:17] <LaserJock> so we are going to ship predefined groups and if the admin wants to change them they have to do it manually
[02:18] <LaserJock> which his less than idea for sure in Edubuntu
[02:18] <LaserJock> that's what was nice about sabayon
[02:18] <LaserJock> it is very easy to create a profile
[02:18] <whiprush> yeah, it's pretty innovative
[02:19] <LaserJock> whiprush: how big of a deployment do you use it on?
[02:19] <whiprush> ~2800 users
[02:19] <whiprush> only 2 labs though
[02:19] <LaserJock> wow, lots of users
[02:19] <LaserJock> how many profiles?
[02:20] <whiprush> 3. Student, Staff, Faculty
[02:20] <whiprush> At first I had this elaborate setup, but that got annoying real quick
[02:20] <LaserJock> ah yeah, that's at Oakland?
[02:20] <whiprush> now it's simple
[02:20] <whiprush> yeah
[02:21] <LaserJock> what kind of things do you "lock down"?
[02:21] <sbalneav> Evening all
[02:21] <LaserJock> hi sbalneav 
[02:21] <sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
[02:21] <sbalneav> At home, so if you'd like to send anything to me for testing/development, let me know.
[02:22] <whiprush> LaserJock: panels only, the rest I leave alone.
[02:22] <sbalneav> Hey whippy
[02:22] <whiprush> that way they can't delete the browser icon, etc.
[02:22] <whiprush> hi scott
[02:22] <LaserJock> whiprush: what about pessulus?
[02:22] <sbalneav> What's shakin'?
[02:22] <whiprush> LaserJock: by the time pessulus was out I had already done most of the lockdown, I'm more in maintenance mode right now.
[02:23] <LaserJock> sure, makes sense
[02:23] <whiprush> sbalneav: nothing, discussing desktop lockdown stuff
[02:24] <whiprush> LaserJock: oh, I lockdown the wallpaper too, so they can't set a huge picture on a thin client.
[02:24] <LaserJock> ah
[02:25] <LaserJock> sbalneav: here is my first attempt at "Python for non-scientists" ;-)
[02:25] <LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21929
[02:25] <LaserJock> almost done
[02:25] <sbalneav> whiprush: You big meanie.  Why can't someone use a 10240 x 7680 super high resolution TIFF for a background?
[02:27] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Hmm, interesting use of the try: except: block.  That all there is, and does this replace the shell script you sent me the other day?
[02:28] <LaserJock> no, it's in addition too
[02:28] <sbalneav> How does it get run?
[02:28] <LaserJock> well, yah know. I'm no programmer so I'm open to suggestiongs
[02:28] <LaserJock> command line or from the script
[02:29] <sbalneav> No, it's fine, syntactically, it's absolutely correct.  I've just never seen it used quite like that, but hey: it works!
[02:29] <sbalneav> So, how does one create the menu profiles?
[02:29] <LaserJock> well, that's why I wanted to have "real" programmers check my scripts over
[02:29] <LaserJock> they should be fast
[02:29] <LaserJock> as they are run at login
[02:30] <LaserJock> sbalneav: by hand :-)
[02:30] <sbalneav> Lemme go poke my nose into the spec, see if I can't give you a bit of a hand...
[02:31] <nixternal> LaserJock: my "Applications" menu flashes after installing Edgy, when i goto click on it and activate it...further reading i found out if i 'killall -q gam_server' stops that from occuring...any ideas if this is a bug with the 'latest release' or???
[02:31] <nixternal> take it easy, im not a gnome guy ;)
[02:31] <sbalneav> nixternal: hahaha
[02:31] <sbalneav> I got bitten by that one.
[02:31] <LaserJock> nixternal: go into /etc/xdg/menus/
[02:31] <sbalneav> It's a symlink pointing to nowhere
[02:31] <LaserJock> nixternal: and rm the symlink
[02:31] <sbalneav> yep
[02:31] <LaserJock> for the debian menu
[02:31] <nixternal> i do however, think that edubuntu has the hottest default look of any os i have tried in my 20+ years of computer use
[02:32] <nixternal> thank you sir!
[02:32] <LaserJock> but of course it's the hottest ;-)
[02:32] <sbalneav> Gartoon + red borders + bluegreen wallpaper = WIN!
[02:32] <nixternal> i love the wp definitely..the icons rock though..i like them
[02:32] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, let me quickly put a tarball together of what I've got and how it works and I'll send it to you
[02:33] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Super Duper Pooper Scoopers!
[02:34] <sbalneav> I've got a ton of stuff done today on some of the localdev stuff, so I'll give you a hand for a bit seeing as how rodarvus seems to have the dhcpd autoconfig spec under control.
[02:41] <LaserJock> sbalneav: what's the email addy?
[02:41] <sbalneav> sbalneav@ltsp.org
[02:41] <sbalneav> I need to beg for an ubuntu one, one of these days :)
[02:42] <LaserJock> think that can be arranged
[02:42] <LaserJock> ;-)
[02:42] <LaserJock> you buttered up the Edubuntu Council pretty well in Paris
[02:43] <sbalneav> Having seen me, you can tell I'm no stranger to butter.
[02:44] <LaserJock> hahaha
[02:44] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, sent. I have to go now. See you tomorrow
[02:44] <sbalneav> Okeydokey, I'll poke it a bit tonight.
[02:45] <sbalneav> Send you results of my testing tomorrow.
[02:45] <LaserJock> whiprush: thanks for the discussion
[02:45] <LaserJock> sbalneav: excellent
[02:45] <LaserJock> ;-)
[03:16] <freddie42> just wondering, does edubuntu have an equivalent to synchroneyes?
[03:29] <madar> hello I just installed edubuntu on a machine for my niece, very nice
[03:29] <madar> however I can't get a sceen resolution above 800x600
[03:30] <madar> I added mode lines for 1024x768 to the xorg.conf but it still doesn't appear as an option in the gui screen resolution tool
[03:30] <madar> any ideas?
[03:30] <madar> using vesa driver for onboard 2mb video
[03:31] <madar> will display 1024x768 on live knoppix type disks
[03:44] <sbalneav> madar: What type of chipset is it?
[03:44] <sbalneav> You'd be better off not using the vesa driver.
[04:10] <madar> hello sbalneav it's reporting as an ati 3d IIc agp but it's onboard from what I can tell
[04:10] <madar> old dell P2 box
[04:10] <madar> DSL will give me nice 1280x1024 using xvesa
[04:11] <madar> I've added mode lines for higher than 800x600 but they don't show up 
[04:11] <madar> edubuntu defaults to using a driver listed as "ati"
[04:20] <sbalneav> madar: well, that would be the default driver for that card.
[04:21] <madar> hmm well I'd prefer a better screen resolution and using a framebuffer
[04:21] <madar> is that possible?
[04:22] <madar> I added modelines for 1024x768 but it doesn't show up in the gui "screen resolution" tool as an option
[04:23] <madar> what does that tool read from that it won't even offer my modeline as an option?
[04:24] <sbalneav> What kind of monitor do you have?
[04:24] <sbalneav> And if you could paste your xorg.conf file to the pastebin?
[04:24] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[04:24] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[04:28] <madar> I appreciate the help but I have to run for a while I'll be back on in an hour or so if you're still here
[04:28] <madar> thanks sbalneav
[04:28] <sbalneav> I'll be around
[04:28] <madar> cheers
[05:00] <supernova> !pastebin
[05:00] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[05:04] <supernova> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21938
[05:05] <supernova> hello sbalneav, I was madar before I'm supernova over hear on the edubuntu box
[05:05] <supernova> that's my xorg.conf file
[05:06] <supernova> over "here" I mean ;)
[05:07] <sbalneav> I would expect that the dpms option is probably what's mucking you up.
[05:07] <sbalneav> Either the card isn't passing through the right dpms options, or
[05:07] <sbalneav> the monitor itself isn't reporting them correctly.
[05:07] <sbalneav> hold on, let me see if I can suggest something.
[05:07] <supernova> what would you recommend
[05:08] <supernova> comment it out
[05:09] <sbalneav> no, that wont work :)
[05:10] <madar> so I see :)
[05:13] <sbalneav> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21939
[05:14] <sbalneav> Replace the monitor section with that, see if it helps any better
[05:14] <sbalneav> It specifies a good horiz + vertical sync range, it's probably detecting one too low.
[05:14] <sbalneav> make sure to make a backup copy first
[05:15] <sbalneav> cp xorg.conf xorg.pre-fiddling
[05:28] <P3L|C4N0> greetings
[05:30] <LaserJock> hell
[05:30] <LaserJock> o
[05:30] <LaserJock> :-)
[05:30] <LaserJock> sbalneav: pingy
[05:30] <sbalneav> Hey laserjock
[05:31] <sbalneav> I'm hacking as we speak.
[05:31] <LaserJock> ah cool
[05:31] <LaserJock> how does it look?
[05:31] <sbalneav> Umm, how were you planning on creating /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/users/<user>/application.menu?
[05:32] <sbalneav> /usr/share<...>'s all owned by root :(
[05:32] <LaserJock> that's done by update_menus
[05:33] <sbalneav> which, your update menus?
[05:33] <sbalneav> edubuntu-update-menus you mean?
[05:34] <LaserJock> update_menu function in edubuntu-update-menus
[05:34] <sbalneav> right, problem is, in /etc/X11/Xsession.d, you're not running as root
[05:34] <sbalneav> You're running as the user
[05:34] <LaserJock> oh, that's right
[05:34] <sbalneav> so creating a file in a root-owned directory's going to cause a problem.
[05:34] <sbalneav> :)
[05:35] <sbalneav> No worries.
[05:35] <LaserJock> I was thinking of the admin running it manually
[05:35] <LaserJock> but you're right
[05:35] <sbalneav> I'm hacking it so that the menu's created in ${HOME}/.edubuntu-menus/application.menu
[05:35] <LaserJock> I don't think ogra's going to like that
[05:36] <LaserJock> :/
[05:36] <LaserJock> he wants it out of ~/ but maybe we can discuss that
[05:37] <sbalneav> Hmmm, unless he wants it to be totally an admin function.  If that's the case, it's fine then, other than the fact that there's no point in trying to run it in 25....
[05:37] <sbalneav> because the user won't be able to update it anyway.
[05:37] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:37] <LaserJock> we would have to seperate out using from updating
[05:38] <sbalneav> Right.
[05:38] <LaserJock> I had hoped to make it all automatic
[05:38] <sbalneav> The 25... rc script would just check for the existance of the menu, and if it's there, then set the environment variable.
[05:38] <sbalneav> the update would have to be run by root to create the user menus.
[05:39] <LaserJock> right
[05:39] <LaserJock> so maybe a cron job or something
[05:39] <sbalneav> Which, like I say, is fine, if that's what's intended.
[05:39] <sbalneav> Absolutely
[05:39] <LaserJock> well, that would sort of simplify things
[05:39] <LaserJock> I guess I need to think like an admin ;-)
[05:40] <sbalneav> hmmm
[05:40] <sbalneav> hmmmmm
[05:40] <sbalneav> hmmmmmmmm
[05:40] <LaserJock> I was sort of thinking it was important to be able to immediatly have the menu active
[05:40] <LaserJock> as soon as the user was added to the group
[05:42] <sbalneav> Not sure if this will work.
[05:42] <LaserJock> "hello, anybody home?"
[05:42] <sbalneav> Here's the core of the idea
[05:42] <sbalneav> What if you simply made one BIG merged file, with all the possible group menus in it.
[05:43] <sbalneav> Pointed everyone at that.
[05:43] <sbalneav> then, the included menu files...
[05:43] <sbalneav> were chmod 640, with the group ownership the same as the group name...
[05:43] <sbalneav> so...
[05:43] <sbalneav> chem.menu is owned root, chem, mode 640
[05:44] <sbalneav> Anyone in the chem group will be able to read it.
[05:44] <sbalneav> anyone NOT in the chem group, wont.
[05:44] <sbalneav> The question is, will the menu system quietly not include the ones you don't have read access to?
[05:45] <sbalneav> Or, will it barf all over the place because you're including a file you can't read.
[05:45] <LaserJock> well, the bigger question is:
[05:45] <LaserJock> what if you belong to more than one group
[05:45] <LaserJock> I think it will jut pick the first applications.menu it finds
[05:45] <sbalneav> Thats easy, then you get a merged menu.  (i think).
[05:45] <sbalneav> Lets test this little theory, shall we? :)
[05:46] <LaserJock> I tested it before
[05:46] <sbalneav> Oh, did you?
[05:46] <LaserJock> and it just picked up the first one
[05:46] <LaserJock> but I didn't test it the same way
[05:46] <LaserJock> I say try it
[05:46] <sbalneav> OK, gimme 5 minutes to test my insane theory
[05:47] <LaserJock> np, I'm eyeing a wild fire that has started near my house :/
[05:49] <sbalneav> ack!
[05:49] <sbalneav> thats no good
[05:50] <sbalneav> Lightning strike?
[05:50] <bddebian> LaserJock: Stop playing with those lasers! ;-P
[05:50] <LaserJock> sbalneav: not sure
[05:50] <LaserJock> but it's probably ~1 mile or so away but the breeze is in this direction
[05:50] <bddebian> Ugh
[05:50] <LaserJock> bddebian: "It wasn't me, honest" ;-)
[05:51] <LaserJock> yeah, this is the closest fire I've seen since moving here
[05:51] <LaserJock> and we have a lot of fires here
[05:53] <aspekt> I have a newbie question if anyone has time...?
[05:53] <LaserJock> aspekt: just put it out there
[05:53] <LaserJock> :-)
[05:54] <aspekt> I am running ubuntu but would like my children to have access to edubuntu - is there a script or similar to upgrade [sidegrade]  to edubuntu?
[05:55] <LaserJock> you could install edubuntu-desktop
[05:55] <LaserJock> it would pull in the dependecies so that it would look like edubuntu
[05:55] <LaserJock> but if there are only a couple apps in particular that they would be interested in you might be better of just installing them directly
[05:55] <aspekt> ah OK and that will keep the underlying stuff I already have?
[05:55] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:56] <LaserJock> it shouldn't replace anything
[05:56] <aspekt> cool - thats great. thanks
[05:56] <LaserJock> just look over what it wants to do before you hit the "apply" button
[05:56] <LaserJock> or whatever
[05:57] <aspekt> OK - i will do. [now that I have the gui back after the *update*] 
[05:57] <LaserJock> heh
[05:57] <aspekt> where are the fires? not in greece?
[05:57] <LaserJock> no, US
[05:57] <aspekt> oh OK
[05:57] <LaserJock> Reno, Nevada to be more accurate
[05:57] <aspekt> best of luck then
[05:58] <LaserJock> it'd have to cross a lot of water to get to greece
[05:58] <LaserJock> :-)
[05:58] <aspekt> they have some bad ones there of their own
[05:58] <LaserJock> not fun
[05:59] <aspekt> yeah - I have just moved to Sydney and I am not looking forward to the summer fires here
[06:07] <LaserJock> sbalneav: did it work? or did you fry your machine?
[06:07] <sbalneav> heh, still hacking.  Not doing what I'm wanting.
[06:08] <sbalneav> How's the fire?
[06:08] <sbalneav> bail if it gets too close.
[06:08] <sbalneav> We need you.
[06:08] <LaserJock> I'll be hacking to the end!
[06:08] <LaserJock> ;-)
[06:09] <LaserJock> really, I think probably a cron job and the ability for the sysadmin to run a sudo edubuntu-menus-update would be pretty good
[06:12] <sbalneav> More than likely.
[06:13] <sbalneav> I just want to exhaust this posibility, because it will get both what you want (instant update) and what ogra wants (no nothing in user home dirs)
[06:13] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:14] <LaserJock> well, would it be a really big no no to make the user's /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/users/ dir writable for them?
[06:51] <sbalneav> LaserJock: ping
[06:51] <LaserJock> yeah?
[06:51] <sbalneav> ok, how about this:
[06:51] <sbalneav> so...
[06:52] <sbalneav> hold on, lemme get a terminal into the other box...
[06:52] <sbalneav> Umm, join me in #xdg-menu
[08:39] <RichEd> hello
[08:39] <Burgundavia> hey RichEd
[08:40] <RichEd> hi Burgundavia ... how's the land of maple leaves ... autumn setting in ?
[08:40] <Burgundavia> not yet
[08:40] <Burgundavia> August is still end of summer
[08:41] <RichEd> oh ... 'cos cape town is springing ... mulberries already ripening on the trees
[08:43] <RichEd> quick question for you that Will and I were pondering ... in a multi-seat desktop solution, how does a "software solution work" ... how do you get the extra monitors & keyboard & mice running off the single CPU ... what are we missing in the picture ?
[08:43] <Burgundavia> we use virtualized X
[08:44] <RichEd> What's your site url again ? I better read up.
[08:46] <Burgundavia> userful.com
[08:46] <Burgundavia> desktop-multiplier is part of multiverse in dapper
[08:48] <RichEd> hi LaserJock :)
[08:48] <LaserJock> hi RichEd 
[08:48] <Burgundavia> hye LaserJock
[08:49] <LaserJock> hehe
[08:55] <RichEd> hello highvoltage : got schalk's email address for me ? minutes going out this morning.
[09:00] <highvoltage> hi RichEd 
[09:00] <highvoltage> sure, schalk@inkululeko.co.za
[09:00] <highvoltage> RichEd: he missed his flight on Friday :)
[09:01] <RichEd> Thanks & Oops ... not my fault I hope ? Did he get manage to get off later on Friday ?
[09:03] <highvoltage> no, not your fault. yes he got a later one at 4
[09:06] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: pygi is still trying to get a hold of you
[09:06] <Burgundavia> and hello
[09:07] <highvoltage> hello Burgundavia :)
[09:07] <highvoltage> I ponged him last night, but it seems I missed him again, which is strange, since we're in the same timezone
[09:08] <highvoltage> i suppose e-mail works better for certain things
[09:09] <Burgundavia> indeed
[09:09] <cbx33> mornin all
[09:09] <highvoltage> morning cbx33 
[09:09] <highvoltage> cbx33: got my messages last night?
[09:09] <cbx33> highvoltage: possibly not?
[09:10] <cbx33> I got one about you being connected for a whole minute?
[09:11] <highvoltage> heh, yes, that was the last message
[09:14] <Burgundavia> vote: http://www.gnome.org/projects/gnome-games/survey.html
[09:16] <cbx33> Mornin RichEd 
[09:16] <RichEd> hi cbx33 ... how was the bank holiday ?
[09:17] <cbx33> yeh was great
[09:17] <cbx33> just blogging about it now
[09:17] <cbx33> Went to the Southsea kite festival :D
[09:18] <cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/~cbx33co/?q=node/40
[09:18] <cbx33> I got my new kite on Sunday - and Ultra Light version, that's the purple one....
[09:19] <cbx33> I do the guys website who makes them, so he gives me a kite every now and then, bearing in mind they cost about 300 each hehehehehe
[09:19] <RichEd> :) fair exchange
[09:20] <cbx33> indeed, we totalled up the cost of his site
[09:20] <cbx33> 5,000
[09:20] <cbx33> so far
[09:21] <highvoltage> cbx33: nice blog, you should get it on ubuntu planet
[09:21] <cbx33> highvoltage: I tried
[09:21] <cbx33> nobody replied
[09:21] <highvoltage> did you e-mail jeff or the RT?
[09:21] <cbx33> jdub
[09:21] <highvoltage> it's best to e-mail rt for that
[09:22] <highvoltage> they'll sort it out quickly
[09:22] <cbx33> ahh ok
[09:22] <cbx33> you got a mail address?
[09:22] <Burgundavia> cbx33: adding to planet is now a thing you can do yourself
[09:22] <Burgundavia> there is a page on the wiki
[09:22] <cbx33> oh cool
[09:22] <cbx33> ok I'll check that out
[09:22] <cbx33> you don't happen to have a link do you?
[09:23] <highvoltage> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu
[09:24] <cbx33> ool
[09:24] <cbx33> +c
[09:26] <cbx33> I'll have to do that at home
[09:26] <cbx33> I don't have sftp access here
[09:26] <cbx33> how OT can my blog be?
[09:26] <cbx33> should I only send through linux stuff
[09:26] <cbx33> as you can see I blog about other rubbish too
[09:27] <Burgundavia> mine is mostly offtopic but mostly about LInux
[09:27] <Burgundavia> planet ubuntu is about people, not neccesarily ubuntu
[09:28] <highvoltage> cbx33: afaik you can blog about whatever you want
[09:28] <highvoltage> cbx33: but personally i would urge you not to blog about cats
[09:31] <cbx33> cats?
[09:31] <cbx33> why not cats?
[09:32] <highvoltage> there are too many cat blogs already :)
[09:32] <cbx33> eheheh
[09:32] <cbx33> well it won't be about cats
[09:33] <cbx33> kites + linux
[09:34] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: but I *love* cute overload!
[09:42] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: :)
[09:45] <cbx33> Lisa really really wants one
[10:22] <cbx33> ping RichEd 
[10:22] <RichEd> cbx33: already a window open ... go for it
[10:23] <cbx33> heheh
[10:52] <cbx33> mornin pygi 
[11:03] <highvoltage> hey pygi 
[11:14] <cbx33> hi ogra 
[11:14] <ogra> moin
[11:15] <cbx33> ogra: pessulus does have the ability to have modules
[11:15] <cbx33> I'm wondering if we could write a module to achieve what we need
[11:15] <cbx33> also http://www.vuntz.net/journal/2006/03/09/364-do-you-want-to-be-a-cool-gnome-contributor
[11:16] <cbx33> seems vuntz is looking for a maintainer for pessulus
[11:16] <cbx33> well a co-maintainer
[11:16] <ogra> and ? any abitions on your side ? :)
[11:20] <cbx33> heheh
[11:20] <cbx33> I don;t think I'd be a suitable choice really would I
[11:20] <cbx33> I'm not that good at stuff yet
[11:20] <cbx33> including constructing large and interesting sentences
[11:21] <ogra> learning by doing ;)
[11:22] <ogra> (to answer with a large and intresting sentence :P)
[11:22] <cbx33> :p
[11:22] <cbx33> If I can get hold of vuntz I'll ask what needs to be done
[11:23] <scythe> hi
[11:23] <cbx33> the is a version of pessulus integrated into sabayon
[11:23] <cbx33> I didn't know that
[11:23] <cbx33> they now what to break it out 
[11:23] <cbx33> so it's seperate
[11:23] <cbx33> and a standalone package
[11:23] <ogra> nice
[11:23] <cbx33> yeh
[11:23] <ogra> hi scythe 
[11:23] <cbx33> would be great if it did the things we need
[11:23] <cbx33> I looked for docs on the modules in pessulus
[11:23] <cbx33> but can't find any
[11:24] <cbx33> I wonder if it's likely to be ready for edgy?
[11:25] <ogra> well, it did what i wanted it to do when i tested it ... but only for the current user
[11:25] <cbx33> ogra: yes
[11:25] <cbx33> that user presumably didn't have the rights to change teh global settings?
[11:25] <ogra> then jdub told me there is a doc how to use that users profile systemwide or for certain users
[11:25] <cbx33> hmmm
[11:26] <ogra> we'll probably need to create a SCP dummy user
[11:26] <cbx33> but then that means restricting that user
[11:26] <cbx33> yeh
[11:26] <cbx33> which you would have to loginto to change the pessulus options
[11:26] <cbx33> ??
[11:26] <ogra> make all changes for hi and copy them to the selected users
[11:26] <ogra> *him
[11:26] <ogra> you can just su to him
[11:26] <cbx33> not the best solution
[11:26] <cbx33> yeh i suppose
[11:26] <cbx33> but then
[11:26] <cbx33> that's what I was doing with sux
[11:27] <cbx33> but graphically
[11:27] <ogra> hmm, we're running on a ltsp server ...
[11:27] <cbx33> yes
[11:27] <cbx33> is there no way to get it to work?
[11:27] <cbx33> have you tried it?
[11:27] <ogra> ssh -X scp-user@localhost pessulus 
[11:27] <ogra> ;)
[11:27] <cbx33> possible
[11:27] <cbx33> but you'd need to put in a password
[11:27] <ogra> no
[11:27] <cbx33> right?
[11:28] <cbx33> oh?
[11:28] <ogra> you need to have the key 
[11:28] <cbx33> why not?
[11:28] <cbx33> ahhhh !!!1
[11:28] <cbx33> of course
[11:28] <ogra> you can do key based auth
[11:28] <cbx33> that's a good idea
[11:28] <scythe> ogra: ah you run a ltsp server? do you have one account for all clients?
[11:28] <cbx33> scythe: no
[11:28] <cbx33> well i don;t
[11:28] <ogra> scythe, nope
[11:29] <cbx33> hmmm
[11:29] <cbx33> so, each user would have a key that allowed the admin to access
[11:30] <cbx33> what if they delete the key? or would we permission it so they couldn't
[11:31] <scythe> ogra,cbx33: I set up a ltsp server for a primary school. best would be, if there is no login for the clients. I created one account and locked panel and things like that. but the background can still be changed.
[11:32] <scythe> but this solution is not so perfekt for saving and deleting files :/
[11:32] <ogra> right
[11:32] <ogra> also firefox wont be happy about it
[11:32] <cbx33> ogra: can I ask you, how much SCP time will you have?
[11:32] <ogra> and openoffice
[11:32] <scythe> orga: yes
[11:32] <cbx33> ogra: indeed ++
[11:33] <ogra> cbx33, i cant tell yet ... depends how much time ldm and the dhcpd autoconf installer take
[11:33] <cbx33> ok
[11:33] <cbx33> I'm just thinking how much longer we have
[11:34] <scythe> orga: do you have a solution? I think the only way is an extra account for each client. but loging in with username and password is dificult for 1st,2nd mayby 3rd class
[11:34] <cbx33> scythe: have a simple password
[11:34] <ogra> cbx33, well, it needs to move to main ... that will take one or two days ... that needs to happen before sept 7th
[11:34] <cbx33> ok
[11:34] <cbx33> basically do you want me to fix pessulus?
[11:34] <cbx33> if we can?
[11:34] <ogra> scythe, thats currently the best solution 
[11:34] <cbx33> or start polishing?
[11:35] <ogra> just tape username and password on the monitor ? 
[11:35] <ogra> there is a debian guy working on a patch that enables autologin with sshkeys on a per client base  ...
[11:35] <ogra> but thats unlikely to be ready before edgy+1
[11:36] <scythe> cbx33, ogra: is there a way to create useraccounts with no password?
[11:36] <ogra> hmm, i'm not sure we block it ... 
[11:36] <ogra> but i never tried to e honest
[11:39] <scythe> and can I lock the changing of backgrounds? everything else, I think, is locked by pessulus and sabayon.
[11:40] <ogra> hmm
[11:41] <ogra> if nautilus doesnt support that through a gconf key i fear it wont work ...
[11:42] <scythe> ogra: hmm, didn't try nautilus. just pessulus and sabayon.
[11:42] <ogra> nautilus is the filemanager
[11:42] <scythe> ogra: ah, ok ;)
[11:43] <scythe> ogra: first time on gnome. normaly I use Kanotix with KDE
[11:43] <ogra> you coud disable the "show-desktop" key, but then you would also loose the ability to have folders on the desktop
[11:44] <cbx33> ogra: is sabayon stable enough for us to use?
[11:44] <ogra> well, it still will need a default profile and likely the package should have a debconf feature that adds this profile to all existing users
[11:45] <ogra> but i want to put it in the ship seed, so its on the CD but not installed by default 
[11:45] <cbx33> right ok
[11:45] <cbx33> bud, I need a date.....I know that freeze is coming soon, and I know you're so busy
[11:45] <cbx33> but I also know that we'll need to tweak my code here and there
[11:46] <cbx33> what is my deadlin for new features...?
[11:46] <cbx33> as in sorting pessulus, 
[11:46] <cbx33> and looking at VNC....I left that till last as you said you'd do it if you had time
[11:46] <cbx33> I just don;t want us to ge to the stage where it's in too much of a mess to amke it for edgy
[11:46] <cbx33> it's gotten some great new features would be ashame to miss out on them
[11:47] <highvoltage> hi there ogra
[11:48] <ogra> we always can drop features if its to difficult to get them in properly 
[11:48] <ogra> i dont think pessulus is a critical one
[11:48] <cbx33> oh yeh I know that
[11:48] <cbx33> well, shall we say this
[11:48] <ogra> the exec/message and kill features were the most important ones
[11:48] <cbx33> i mean I'm pretty sure if we come up with a sane way to do the ssh keys it'll be fine
[11:49] <cbx33> the interface in SCP is done
[11:49] <ogra> and these you solved in a beautiful way
[11:49] <cbx33> I just need to change the command line so to speak
[11:49] <cbx33> thanks ogra :D
[11:49] <ogra> highvoltage, nah
[11:49] <cbx33> highvoltage: I know I'm in that list...it's just I manage to bufferoverflow it :p
[11:49] <ogra> highvoltage, morning
[11:50] <highvoltage> ogra: :)
[11:50] <cbx33> oh and remember the plugin system....I'm really gonna push you here, I'd like to push for server/client implementation this release
[11:50] <cbx33> I'll keep the old system too, but I know I can do it
[11:50] <cbx33> and it would make it so much more powerful
[11:50] <cbx33> it's all up here .... ^ 
[11:50] <ogra> right, but it will make the spec more complicated 
[11:50] <scythe> can I duplicate an user account? so I don't have to setup xy times new accounts?
[11:50] <ogra> remember we need to get that approved 
[11:50] <cbx33> only slightly.....
[11:51] <cbx33> yeh....ok 
[11:51] <cbx33> all it will do is run the server plugin as stated..
[11:51] <cbx33> then signal over dbus to run the client one too
[11:51] <cbx33> but you're right
[11:51] <cbx33> the spec would be more complicated 
[11:51] <cbx33> ok we'll leave that for edgy +1
[11:52] <cbx33> I'll take a look at the pessulus problem, as I'm pretty sure we can solve that easily
[11:52] <ogra> lets make small steps in the beginning ... edgy+1 will have a way longer feature development time
[11:52] <cbx33> ok
[11:52] <cbx33> sorry
[11:52] <cbx33> I get carried away
[11:53] <scythe> ogra: are you the head developer?
[11:54] <ogra> scythe, until dapper i was, yes ... now we're rater moving to a team effort
[11:54] <ogra> so i have more dev time and less maintenance work to do ;) 
[11:54] <scythe> ogra: ah, I think I saw your presentation on linuxtag 06 :=)
[11:54] <ogra> ah, nice :)
[11:55] <cbx33> ogra: will you be working on VNC?
[11:55] <cbx33> when you ge a spare 20 seconds?
[11:55] <ogra> heh
[11:55] <ogra> if it would be doable in 20sec i'd have done it already
[11:55] <cbx33> it is doable in 20 seconds for you :p
[11:56] <ogra> i'm a bit under pressure to get the dhcpd stuff in so it can be on knot 2 or 3
[11:56] <ogra> it will need testing
[11:56] <ogra> (knot 2 is planned for this week)
[11:56] <ogra> and i'm still hitting debian introduced bugs that need fixage even before knot2, else ltsp wont be useable
[11:57] <cbx33> right 
[11:57] <cbx33> those are totally important
[11:57] <cbx33> I'll try to look at it...
[11:57] <cbx33> see what I can come up with
[11:59] <cbx33> man I hate Windows XP
[12:02] <highvoltage> who doesn't
[12:02] <cbx33> i have a machine that's taking 2 mins to login
[12:02] <cbx33> just sitting on applying pseronaly settings
[12:02] <cbx33> can I see what it's doing
[12:03] <cbx33>  NO!
[12:04] <scythe> doesn't anyone know how to duplicate an user account (sample account)?
[12:05] <cbx33> duplicate what about it?
[12:05] <cbx33> why don't you write a bash script, give it a list of usernames and it'll create them all the same
[12:05] <highvoltage> scythe: you can also create a new user using the old user as a skeleton directory
[12:07] <scythe> highvoltage: how does it work?
[12:09] <scythe> cbx33: but then they don't have the settings I made. for example the menu, the background, installed programs in home directory, ...
[12:10] <cbx33> ah
[12:10] <cbx33> then do what highvoltage said
[12:10] <scythe> but how?
[12:10] <cbx33> there is a command line option to use a skel dir
[12:10] <cbx33> run man useradd
[12:10] <scythe> thx :)
[12:15] <cbx33> np
[12:20] <highvoltage> scythe: useradd has a -k switch for skeleton directory
[12:20] <highvoltage> so you would use, for example
[12:20] <highvoltage> useradd newuser -m -k /home/olduser
[12:20] <scythe> highvoltage: thx
[12:20] <highvoltage> you'd then need to give the user a password with:
[12:21] <highvoltage> passwd newuser
[12:22] <scythe> highvoltage: I'll test it :)
[12:31] <scythe> highvoltage: works perfekt. I copied the needed stuff under /etc/skel. so every new user is created with my defaults.
[12:32] <cbx33> nice scythe 
[12:33] <cbx33> highvoltage: does that change all the permissions too?
[12:35] <scythe> cbx33: by creating new accounts with /etc/skel it does
[12:36] <cbx33> cool
[12:48] <highvoltage> cbx33: yes, it does
[12:49] <cbx33> :p
[01:16] <cbx33> hi rodarvus 
[01:16] <rodarvus> hi cbx33
[01:17] <rodarvus> you were looking for me last night, right?
[01:17] <cbx33> i was 
[01:17] <cbx33> but it's all sorted
[01:17] <cbx33> I foudn a strange bug
[01:17] <cbx33> and want to check ti wasn't a security risk
[01:18] <cbx33> goto a text console and type [D as the username and press enter
[01:18] <cbx33> all the text from then on is in capitals
[01:18] <cbx33> one person hasn;'t been able to reproduce
[01:18] <cbx33> 3 have
[01:25] <cbx33> strange eh?
[01:36] <rodarvus> oh, cbx33 left
[01:49] <rodarvus> how strange. *all* irc channels are extremely quiet today
[01:59] <jsgotangco> RichEd: are you there and free for a moment?
[01:59] <RichEd> hi jsgotangco ... yep ... got a few minutes ... may have an incoming phone call soon
[02:00] <jsgotangco> ok this should be quick
[02:00] <jsgotangco> I got to talk to the E Media group today
[02:00] <jsgotangco> we're pretty much not in tune at the moment, there's a disconnect...
[02:00] <jsgotangco> these guys are broadcasters, not interactive media people
[02:00] <jsgotangco> so we can't seem to make a connection on where interactive education can come in :/
[02:01] <jsgotangco> at the moment, the DVD shows works
[02:01] <RichEd> okay ... do you have a bit of time to look at a South African Model ? a partner of ours in the HP NEPAD schools project ?
[02:02] <jsgotangco> i can look, but i need URLs or case studies
[02:02] <jsgotangco> a server model won't work here, its too costly
[02:02] <jsgotangco> we're expecting a donation of old  PPCCs
[02:02] <jsgotangco> err PPCs
[02:02] <RichEd> As quick background, they produce learning content for regular TV broadcast and also package into stream & store for replay.
[02:03] <RichEd> They are a "non-profit foundation" with an excellent reputation and long term history. Started with Newspaper insert, and on to TV and then on to IT. May be a good model to follow.
[02:04] <RichEd> Give me a minute to get you the links.
[02:05] <RichEd> here you go: have a look at this http://www.mindset.co.za/
[02:06] <RichEd> They are serious enough about assisting education to be prepared to share learnings if requested.
[02:07] <jsgotangco> yeah, its obviously an evolution in learning but how a foundation with television media experience go into interactive education is another question...also the said learning content on DVD is based on the government curriculum and accredited
[02:09] <RichEd> jsgotangco: your statement above is an exact parallel with the evolution of mindset. from print, to TV, to PC. government approved. curriculum. engage the department of health. 100% fit.
[02:09] <jsgotangco> RichEd: im sure you get what I mean, its pretty easy to say hey here's kalzium its an award winning chemistry app, then they will ask, so what, we make chemistry teaching story based and it works,
[02:11] <RichEd> That is again exactly what mindset do. If cartoons are the best medium to teach, they use them. The move towards IT is "when IT is better at delivery" not just "because".
[02:11] <jsgotangco> we know it'll be effective but the question is how to make it non invasive
[02:11] <jsgotangco> with GILAS, its easier because its just internet access
[02:11] <jsgotangco> with EMedia its quite complicated
[02:12] <RichEd> Browse the site link above. If eMedia is serious, they can engage Mindset to share the model. I can provide introductions.
[02:13] <RichEd> It is NOT an attempt to push IT into schools. It is a learning network, first & foremost. With apropriate tools & mediums for a best fit with education goals. No other agenda.
[02:19] <jsgotangco> RichEd: I think they're quite serious about it, otherwise, they wouldn't have called the whole management team and discuss about it with me
[02:20] <jsgotangco> ;)
[02:20] <cberlo> Hi folks.
[02:21] <jsgotangco> RichEd: its just that im not an educator by profession and this is getting way out of my head ;)
[02:21] <cberlo> Anyone know anything about VLANs, and configuring them between Cisco and Nortel routers?
[02:22] <jsgotangco> RichEd: it is like the two towers ;)
[02:40] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: thanks for that good response on that e-mail, I didn't quite understand why it was a .xml file myself, but you cleared it up very nicely
[02:42] <jsgotangco> yeah i noticed it was d.ubuntu.com
[02:44] <jsgotangco> ive just seen the biggest sized powerpoint presentation ever at the moment
[02:45] <jsgotangco> and its taking forever to open from OOo2 ;)
[02:51] <jsgotangco> oh its on a spongebob squarepants CDR lol
[02:56] <highvoltage> lol
[02:57] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: dude its 207MB
[02:57] <highvoltage> users are quite bad like that
[02:57] <highvoltage> they don't care putting a 20MB .tif file in a slide :)
[02:57] <jsgotangco> i will probably have to find a windows CD with powerpoint to check this out
[02:57] <highvoltage> wow
[02:57] <highvoltage> the software should put a limit on file sizes on the pics, or scale it down
[02:58] <highvoltage> or at least present the options to do so
[02:58] <jsgotangco> yeah
[02:58] <jsgotangco> i wonder if its a bunch of embedded AVIs
[02:59] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: it came from a media foundation, so I guess they love moving images
[02:59] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:59] <highvoltage> yeah, Spongebob series 1 :)
[03:00] <jsgotangco> *sigh* i may have to reboot this laptop to xp and download a ppt viewer
[03:08] <jsgotangco> brb
[03:20] <highvoltage> hey th1a 
[03:21] <th1a> hi highvoltage.
[03:21] <th1a> What's up?
[03:23] <highvoltage> we've been using schoollink, a local school administration package in our schools
[03:24] <highvoltage> but it doesn't work on dapper, so with our dapper upgrades we installed schooltool, just until schoollink releases a new version
[03:24] <highvoltage> but now those schools are pesting us for schooltool training, which we don't have
[03:24] <highvoltage> are there any training manuals that are apt for trainers that we could use for schooltool?
[03:25] <th1a> What are they trying to do with SchoolTool?
[03:26] <highvoltage> some things they want to do i realise won't work in schooltool yet... in short...
[03:26] <highvoltage> they want to draw up time tables, do school accounting,
[03:27] <highvoltage> keep track of grades and pring quarterly reports for the parents...
[03:27] <th1a> You installed the version in the Ubuntu repository?
[03:27] <highvoltage> yes
[03:27] <th1a> That one really only does calendaring.
[03:28] <highvoltage> are there debs for the full schooltool? we could distribute it with our next update cd, if we could support it and arrange some kind of training
[03:28] <th1a> You can download an alpha from our website that does more, but it isn't really ready for endusers.
[03:28] <th1a> highvoltage: We're just not that far yet.
[03:28] <th1a> Unfortunately.
[03:28] <th1a> Much to my chagrin.
[03:29] <highvoltage> fair enough.
[03:31] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:31] <highvoltage> morning sbalneav 
[03:31] <sbalneav> Hey highvoltage!
[03:32] <sbalneav> How's it going?
[03:32] <highvoltage> going great, thanks
[03:32] <highvoltage> i've been so busy handing work to other people that i've hardly had time to do anything else
[03:32] <highvoltage> it's starting to pay off now though, which is great :)
[03:33] <sbalneav> Excellent
[03:34] <sbalneav> ewww, yeah, byte grubbing's always hard work.
[03:36] <ogra> well, we're ~22MB oversized ...
[03:36] <ogra> no idea where to get that from
[03:38] <sbalneav> 22 meg!
[03:39] <sbalneav> Yipes
[03:39] <ogra> yes :(
[03:39] <highvoltage> ouch
[03:39] <sbalneav> This for the live, or install cd?
[03:41] <cbx33> ping ogra 
[03:42] <ogra> sbalneav, install, i dont look at live at all yet
[03:42] <ogra> install is what we ship ... so thats highest prio
[03:42] <cbx33> for this ssh implementation we'll have an authorized_keys file in the skel ?
[03:42] <sbalneav> eep
[03:42] <ogra> and i should have it cut down to 700M today
[03:42] <ogra> else we'll miss knot2
[03:42] <cbx33> so every user gets created with our pub key?
[03:43] <ogra> cbx33, sorry, i'm very busy with the CDs atm ...
[03:43] <cbx33> sorry ogra 
[03:43] <ogra> no time to discuss SCP 
[03:44] <cbx33> put me on the ignore list
[03:44] <ogra> heh, no
[03:44] <cbx33> I'll try things and you say yay/nay later
[03:44] <ogra> if i get it in shape i'll have time again
[03:44] <cbx33> or Ja oder nein
[03:44] <ogra> :)
[03:44] <cbx33> Ich weis nicht
[03:45] <bddebian> Hello
[03:47] <ogra> hmm
[03:47] <ogra> would anybody complain if i drop gnome2-user-guide ?
[03:49] <cbx33> nope
[03:49] <cbx33> what's happened with example content now?
[03:49] <ogra> it was never in
[03:53] <ogra> #ubuntu-devel suggested dropping blender ...
[03:53] <ogra> what do you guys think
[03:53] <highvoltage> blender is useless on ltsp
[03:54] <highvoltage> people who can afford a lab full of fat clients can afford to download a blender deb
[03:54] <ogra> blender works totally fine with ltsp
[03:54] <cbx33> yeh I agree
[03:54] <highvoltage> so blender is probably safe to drop, even though it's a really 'cool' thing to have in an educational distro
[03:55] <cbx33> it's really cool, but not good if you have many people using it
[03:55] <ogra> right 
[03:55] <cbx33> one is cool
[03:55] <cbx33> two is slow
[03:55] <highvoltage> we used to have blender when we used K12-LTSP in our labs
[03:55] <ogra> you need a powerful server for it
[03:55] <cbx33> three I kick them all off :p
[03:55] <highvoltage> and when 24 people start it up, it kills the network and server
[03:55] <ogra> ok
[03:56] <highvoltage> so, my rationale is, if you can afford *that* powerful server, you could probably afford to download the deb :)
[03:56] <ogra> RichEd, any objections to that from a educational manager POV ?
[03:56] <cbx33> how big is blender
[03:56] <cbx33> are we making way for anything
[03:56] <cbx33> or is this just general cd growth
[03:56] <ogra> Size: 4912610
[03:56] <highvoltage> i hope laserjock and cbx33 find nice ways of replacing kde-edu, that would be the major ++
[03:56] <RichEd> highvoltage's argument makes sense ...
[03:56] <ogra> 5 meg
[03:56] <cbx33> highvoltage, Amaranth was working on gallium
[03:57] <ogra> highvoltage, not for edgy though
[03:57] <highvoltage> ogra: i understand
[03:57] <cbx33> if that slows I'll try and pick it up for edgy +1
[03:57] <ogra> thats my major prob atm ... 
[03:57] <cbx33> hmmm
[03:57] <cbx33> i thought it was going to be ready for edgy
[03:57] <cbx33> Amaranth started off guns blazing
[03:58] <cbx33> but I can't get it ready for edgy now
[03:58] <highvoltage> imho, kde-edu really needs to be replaced for edgy +1, either that, or start using DVD's, because even with the current size of the applications, the edubuntu part of the cd has to shrink with every release because ubuntu gets bigger and bigger
[03:59] <ogra> Amaranth should rather care for willowng before starting something new
[03:59] <cbx33> yeh
[03:59] <ogra> we need it ... urgently
[03:59] <cbx33> highvoltage, ++
[04:00] <ogra> highvoltage, we have marks approval for DVDs i heard ... but that would lock out a lot of users
[04:00] <jsgotangco> bah!
[04:00] <ogra> i'D still rather go with a two CD setup
[04:00] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:00] <ogra> but then we'd loose shipit
[04:00] <jsgotangco> Ubuntu: "It grows"
[04:00] <ogra> heh
[04:01] <highvoltage> dvd writers are quite big in all poor countires, as far as i understand
[04:01] <highvoltage> but i trust your judgement
[04:01] <highvoltage> ogra: how about making the second cd optional?
[04:01] <ogra> highvoltage, until now i trused yours
[04:01] <highvoltage> ogra: what happened?
[04:01] <ogra> you said they were not feasable
[04:01] <highvoltage> no i didn't
[04:02] <ogra> you did back then in london
[04:02] <highvoltage> i always supported the dvd option
[04:02] <highvoltage> i did!
[04:02] <ogra> hmm
[04:02] <highvoltage> i remember someone making noise about DVD's not being a good option, but it wasn't me
[04:02] <ogra> that would give us so many new opportunities ... like shipping all 90 langs 
[04:02] <highvoltage> we've beein putting dvd drives in tuxlabs for a very, very long time, there would be no reason for me to object to dvd's
[04:03] <jsgotangco> most computers over here still don't have DVD drives :P
[04:03] <ogra> RichEd, would you mind to find out what the k12 community would think about DVds by default ? 
[04:03] <jsgotangco> especially the cheapest ones
[04:03] <ogra> (since you are cummunicating with them most of us)
[04:04] <highvoltage> ogra: honestly, i think you're confusing what someone else said with me
[04:04] <ogra> highvoltage, sorry then ... it was always my impression it were your words :)
[04:04] <highvoltage> i remember the discussion well, but i can't remember who the person was that objected to the dvd's
[04:04] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: burn you at the stake
[04:04] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: hehe
[04:06] <highvoltage> i have a suspition who it might have been, but i'm not sure, i'd rather say nothing
[04:06] <ogra> flint ? 
[04:06] <highvoltage> ogra: so in principle, you don't have any objections for dvd's if it's widely accessable?
[04:06] <jsgotangco> i would probably object to a dvd as well but then they are quite cheap already
[04:06] <cbx33> what about this additional CD malarky
[04:06] <ogra> well, thats really something we should hear about from the users
[04:07] <highvoltage> i remember thinking it was someone who didn't live in a poor country, which is why flint comes to mind too, but i'm not sure
[04:07] <cbx33> i would object to dvd :p
[04:07] <ogra> cbx33, we'd loose the opportunity for shipit
[04:07] <highvoltage> i just remember the comment, not who said it
[04:07] <ogra> the expensive part is the shipping, not the pressing
[04:07] <cbx33> ogra, but if the main cd gave them everything they needed
[04:07] <cbx33> as most people customize
[04:07] <cbx33> the additional CD could finish it off
[04:07] <ogra> we wouldnt ship anything incomplete ...
[04:07] <jsgotangco> i wonder if it will for edgy ;)
[04:07] <jsgotangco> ubuntu is growing
[04:07] <cbx33> well not incomplete
[04:07] <jsgotangco> now we have mono
[04:08] <ogra> no, *we* dont
[04:08] <highvoltage> ogra: it depends on the definition of complete, doesn't it?
[04:08] <ogra> ubuntu has ...
[04:08] <cbx33> i mean, 
[04:08] <highvoltage> ubuntu cd's doesn't ship the entire 'main'
[04:08] <cbx33> if we had a CD which setup everything
[04:08] <RichEd> ogra: will do
[04:08] <jsgotangco> ogra: you're dropping mono?
[04:08] <highvoltage> so would it be incomplete?
[04:08] <cbx33> but didn't give you the rich set of apps
[04:08] <cbx33> then you have the option
[04:08] <ogra> jsgotangco, it never really entered
[04:08] <cbx33> doenload the ones you want
[04:08] <ogra> its 20MB
[04:08] <cbx33> or use the additional CD
[04:08] <jsgotangco> i thought so
[04:09] <ogra> it eneterd for some days where i didnt update the seeds ...
[04:09] <cbx33> so users who only had CD roms in their server...like me
[04:09] <ogra> and pushed the CDs to 750M
[04:09] <cbx33> would be able to get the functioning complete system
[04:09] <cbx33> and then install "more" apps seperately
[04:09] <ogra> so you opt for an edubuntu without edu apps ? 
[04:09] <jsgotangco> the dailies are oversized lately
[04:10] <highvoltage> sorry, i didn't mean to fuel more discussion on this, ogra and canonical need to decide on the most feasable options, and put it out to the community to choose, I think I've said what I can :)
[04:10] <cbx33> not without them entirely
[04:10] <cbx33> but possibly without some
[04:10] <cbx33> that could be "easily" added
[04:10] <ogra> cbx33, gcompris and kdeedu must stay ...
[04:10] <cbx33> like the old debian net boot
[04:10] <ogra> as tuxpaint
[04:10] <cbx33> but more friendly
[04:10] <highvoltage> ogra: what we mean with a second cd is (just for clarity), is that optional stuff, like blender and example-content, go on a second cd
[04:10] <ogra> and the others arent even 10 meg
[04:10] <cbx33> is there actaully anything left after that
[04:11] <cbx33> ok, it was only an idea
[04:11] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: i agree with blender
[04:11] <cbx33> sorry :)
[04:11] <cbx33> :(
[04:11] <jsgotangco> but its not that huge
[04:11] <highvoltage> so the first cd is still a complete edubuntu, the second cd is just additional tools and software theat would be helpful
[04:11] <ogra> blender is gone
[04:11] <ogra> no need to discuss it :)
[04:11] <highvoltage> I just used it as an example :)
[04:11] <cbx33> I tell you what we need
[04:11] <cbx33> seriosuly
[04:11] <ogra> blender has one big prob ... it depends on ffmpeg now 
[04:11] <cbx33> a webpage/doc which documents all the education apps
[04:11] <jsgotangco> we could probably remove a lot of the small stuff, like gaim, but they're so small to make an impact
[04:11] <cbx33> that "could" be installed
[04:12] <ogra> we wouldnt be able to ship it that way anyway ... and i'd need to cripple the package
[04:12] <cbx33> like a database of educational apps
[04:12] <highvoltage> imho, the dvd would be the best option, since, like ogra says, it solves the space problem, it makes shipping easier, and it leaves a nice amount of space for things like a small wikipedia distribution
[04:12] <highvoltage> (sorry, I'll shut up now before I open more cans)
[04:12] <cbx33> i just worry about how many people will not try it .... cause it's on dvd
[04:12] <ogra> cbx33, that wont help in the areas witout proper broadband
[04:13] <cbx33> ogra, true
[04:13] <cbx33> i dunno,
[04:13] <ogra> dont forget what we write on the homepage
[04:13] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: i would say its sensible, for one to set up a lab with at least an external dvd drive or hvae one of the machines if its a 1:1 model
[04:13] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: yep
[04:13] <jsgotangco> a 1:1 model would be disastrous for a dvd though
[04:13] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: and if you have one machine with a drive, you can also pxe install to all the others over the network
[04:13] <jsgotangco> cbx33: dvd drive != dvd burner
[04:14] <cbx33> true...but if I'm going to download to burn
[04:14] <ogra> why should you
[04:14] <highvoltage> cbx33: if it's on dvd, you can get it from shipit
[04:14] <cbx33> true
[04:14] <ogra> if you dont have a writer, you order it from shipit
[04:14] <cbx33> what about testing?
[04:14] <cbx33> and people who want to help develop
[04:14] <cbx33> or want to try it quickly
[04:14] <highvoltage> eek, that's a tough one yes
[04:14] <ogra> hrasynco ? 
[04:14] <cbx33> I'm just throwing up suggestons
[04:14] <ogra> err
[04:15] <ogra> grasynco
[04:15] <jsgotangco> well i can't download DVDs immediately for sure, so our uncle ogra would send us
[04:15] <cbx33> heheh is this you forcing a name change ogra ?
[04:15] <cbx33> :p
[04:15] <jsgotangco> :D
[04:15] <ogra> the rsync is usually very small
[04:15] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:15] <cbx33> well, ok
[04:15] <ogra> you'd need to pull the iso once
[04:15] <highvoltage> this discussion is providing some nice solutions :)
[04:15] <cbx33> so are we thinking the dvd for this rel;ease or next?
[04:15] <jsgotangco> although i do admit it took me half a day to get debian DVDs from jigdo
[04:15] <cbx33> I need to work on grasynco more :p
[04:16] <ogra> cbx33, i can tell you after the next iso build ...
[04:16] <cbx33> ok ogra 
[04:16] <cbx33> I'm off out in a short while
[04:16] <ogra> if i'm able to get it in shape now and have some spare space all is fine
[04:16] <cbx33> I'll beinterested if someone could mail me the results of the discussion :p
[04:17] <cbx33> and all is silent
[04:17] <cbx33> i dunno i minutes for you guys every week:p
[04:17] <cbx33> haahahah
[04:17] <cbx33> never on TIME !!!!!
[04:17] <cbx33> eeeeeeek
[04:17] <cbx33> i gotta dash
[04:17] <cbx33> swimming :p
[04:19] <ogra> we somehow are left out in the newsletter recently :/
[04:19] <highvoltage> when's the next newsletter stories due?
[04:20] <ogra> no idea ... they just arrive in my inbox from time to time :)
[04:20] <pygi> highvoltage, I've cheated libburn, and burned DVD with it, sweet :)
[04:20] <highvoltage> heh :)
[04:20] <highvoltage> pygi: and can you actualy read the dvd? ;)
[04:20] <cbx33> bbl gy
[04:20] <pygi> highvoltage, ofcourse, MD5 don't match, but dvd content is there and workable
[04:20] <cbx33> us
[04:21] <pygi> readable*
[04:21] <pygi> highvoltage, also fixed the eject yesterday, fedora got it in their repos, whee :)
[04:21] <pygi> all good news so far :)
[04:24] <highvoltage> absolutely!
[04:25] <pygi> we've got enormous number of bugs fixed in two weeks, got partial dvd support, fixed eject, rewrited libisofs, made cdrskin usable for audio :)
[04:26] <bddebian> w00t
[04:26] <pygi> highvoltage, you'll soon be able to test bonfire/brasero with libburn support
[04:27] <pygi> it shall support everything but dvd support (even copy on the fly (but without -tao, using sao and image size)) as you are used to see from cdrecord :)
[04:27] <pygi> (ok, and no cd text, but that's my fault :P)
[04:28] <pygi> bddebian, what? :)
[04:29] <bddebian> pygi: That you have gotten alot of bug fixes, etc :-)
[04:38] <Burgundavia> ogra: ridell wrote the kubuntu section. I didn't have any edubuntu news
[04:38] <ogra> Burgundavia, who do you usually ask for edubuntu news ? 
[04:48] <cberlo> How difficult would I be making my life if I temporarily installed LTSP 4.2 into Edubuntu until all of the MueKow features are completed?
[04:49] <ogra> it will break
[04:49] <ogra> either do a edubuntu workstation install and put ltsp 4.2 on top manually or use edubuntus ltsp
[04:50] <cberlo> ogra: even if I follow the "recommended" procedure of installing the alternate version into another location?
[04:50] <ogra> you cant mix them
[04:50] <cberlo> Okay, I see what you mean.  Don't mix.  But I can put them both on, and enable one or the other as needed without borking the whole system?
[04:50] <cberlo> (I've done a lot of work on this project over the summer and it's crunch time -- they want printing, no question about that at all...)
[04:51] <ogra> well, i'll surely look into printing support before the edgy release .... but i'm not sure i can packport it to dapper
[04:52] <ogra> *backport
[04:53] <cberlo> Frustrating... I want to be patient and let you do your job -- I have faith -- but I also need this project to be successful.  Up to 3000 clients may be in question.  An entire School Board.  Nice PR, if it all works.
[04:53] <cberlo> Okay, and a final thing I'll bug you on for now:  is there an easy way to quickly connect a Windows workstation to LTSP (for a demo to non-technical types)
[04:54] <ogra> you mean abusing a win pc as client ? 
[04:54] <ogra> sure, if it supports PXE booting ... 
[04:54] <ogra> aternatively you can create a bootfloppie with PXE emulation
[04:54] <cberlo> ogra: Yep, pretty much -- but while Windoze is running -- like a "mini-X" connecting to XDM or such.
[04:55] <ogra> that wont work
[04:55] <ogra> we dont support xdmcp
[04:55] <ogra> muecow uses ssh for X transport 
[04:55] <cberlo> ogra: Actually, that's how I've got it running, so I can use pam_mount...
[04:55] <cberlo> ogra:  I "bypassed" ssh and X
[04:55] <highvoltage> ogra: would it be difficult to make a live cd that only boots up and opens up ldm and connect to a server
[04:55] <highvoltage> hmmm...
[04:56] <ogra> well, thats fine, just keep in mind that you wont be able to get commercial support for that setup from us (yet)
[04:56] <cberlo> highvoltage: Live CD would be no problem, but I want to do this from within Windows for our Principals, Guidance Staff, etc. so they can just get a "taste" of things.
[04:56] <highvoltage> could you just write /opt/ltsp/i386 to CD and add a kernel would that work?
[04:56] <ogra> highvoltage, you surely could do that ...
[04:57] <ogra> no
[04:57] <cberlo> ogra: That's okay.  I'm pretty much the support around here -- they're really trying to avoid paying to support these older clients.
[04:57] <ogra> you would have to take a liveCD image and modify that (drop -desktop, add ltsp-client and ldm)
[04:57] <cberlo> (old PCs running win95 and Win98 that they want to keep on the net but not pay per-seat licenses and such)
[04:58] <Burgundavia> ogra: anybody or find it myself
[04:58] <cberlo> ogra: Did something like that with DSL, then planted it in QEMU, but the routing doesn't seem to work out to get me a display through XDMCP broadcast or query -- I think it conflicts with the "real" machine services.
[04:58] <ogra> Burgundavia, ok, i can give you an update for tech stuff, just ping me before the news get written, so i can prepare something
[04:59] <highvoltage> ogra: why would i drop ldm from the livecd? how else would i log into the edubuntu server?
[04:59] <ogra> doesnt putty have a -X switch nowadays ? 
[04:59] <ogra> you could use a default edubuntu server if it had
[04:59] <cberlo> ogra: Yes, but that needs a local X server...
[04:59] <highvoltage> i think you have to have X11 installed on windows too to use -X
[05:00] <ogra> and using xdmcp doesnt need a local X server ?
[05:00] <cberlo> ogra: Yes, that still needs local X, but nothing more, really.
[05:00] <cberlo> Minimal X I've been able to get with XDMCP support is about 120MB.  A bit big of an install for a "quick demo"
[05:00] <cberlo> brb
[05:01] <ogra> well, with putty you need local X and putty :)
[05:01] <ogra> thats not significantly bigger
[05:05] <jsgotangco> good night
[05:18] <Burgundavia> ogra: issue 12 is bing written right now
[05:19] <ogra> Burgundavia, ltsp has support for local devices on thin clients, but i wont have the time to wirte a detailed report now
[05:20] <ogra> so it will have to wait for issue 13 i guess
[05:20] <ogra> also SCP should be made very prominent once i merged cbx33's branch
[05:22] <ogra> Burgundavia, i gues thats likely to verbose for the newsletter http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-ltsp-devel/2006-August/000339.html
[05:24] <cberlo> Okay, so I can do it with the ssh tunneling if I use putty, but I still need X from windows.  I think I can do that for now.  
[05:30] <cberlo> I know I said that last thing was the last thing for now, but one last thing...  :)  Any suggestions on how to make a full backup to an SMB share?  Seem to be hitting a 2GB file size limit...
[05:31] <Burgundavia> yep
[05:38] <cberlo> Well, if anyone has an idea, drop me a line...  I'm going elsewhere, but I'll be sitting in the channel and I'll check the logs later..
[07:30] <ubuntux1> hi all
[07:31] <LaserJock> hi
[07:36] <EmxBA> hi
[07:37] <ubuntux1> i like edubuntu more than ubuntu:)
[08:14] <mhz> hi all
[08:14] <mhz> RichEd: ping?
[08:56] <highvoltage> hi mhz
[08:57] <LaserJock> hi highvoltage 
[09:00] <mhz> highvoltage: hi there
[09:02] <highvoltage> hey las	
[09:02] <highvoltage> grrr
[09:02] <highvoltage> bonjour LaserJock!
[09:05] <LaserJock> heh
[09:06] <sbalneav> Hey LaserJock 
[09:07] <LaserJock> hi sbalneav and no, I haven't had a chance to finish it today :/
[09:07] <LaserJock> stupid research
[09:07] <LaserJock> I hate it when real life (and the need for sleep for that matter) gets in the way of being a Ubuntu-holic
[09:07] <sbalneav> LaserJock: I was thinking, your edubuntu-update-menus program could still be there, it could just 1) make sure the files are group owned correctly, and 2) combine all the .menu's into the big meta applications.menu.
[09:08] <LaserJock> yeah, I was thinking that too
[09:08] <sbalneav> No problem, sorry, wasn't meaning to bug.  How was the fire?
[09:08] <LaserJock> sbalneav: it got contained pretty fast, they had over 20 fire trucks and ~200 firemen on it
[09:09] <LaserJock> awfully smokey though
[09:09] <sbalneav> pygi: holy mackeral!  Are kids allowed to see that??!
[09:09] <pygi> sbalneav, !!! why is that?!
[09:09] <sbalneav> :)
[09:09] <sbalneav> Just pulling your leg
[09:09] <sbalneav> Looks awesome.
[09:09] <pygi> ;)
[09:10] <pygi> thanks
[09:10] <sbalneav> libburn's the GPL replacement for cdrecord, yes?
[09:11] <LaserJock> sbalneav: well, I've seen a few where that would be warranted so it's good to keep in mind ;-)
[09:13] <sbalneav> LaserJock: I've been a systems administrator for 16 years.  I've seen a few in which the police were called. :(
[09:14] <LaserJock> yeah, we seem to have those at the Uni now and then
[09:15] <sbalneav> yep.
[09:15] <sbalneav> Nasty old world.  Always has been, always will be.
[09:57] <Lilandra> Hello
[09:57] <LaserJock> hi Lilandra 
[09:57] <Lilandra> Ooo! there are people here!
[09:58] <LaserJock> of course
[09:58] <LaserJock> but people need to sleep some times :-)
[09:58] <Lilandra> well, i've never been...my install put #ubuntu in my default connection, not #edubuntu
[09:58] <Lilandra> so it finally occurred to me to check
[09:59] <LaserJock> ah, well welcome
[10:00] <Lilandra> thanks
[10:01] <mhz> Lilandra: hi there. What version of Edubuntu are you running?
[10:01] <Lilandra> 6.06. something?
[10:02] <Lilandra> dapper..
[10:02] <Lilandra> for ppc
[10:03] <LaserJock> cool
[10:04] <Lilandra> i got my wireless working on it and when i tried xubuntu for some odd reason it was stressing me out so...
[11:14] <sdfsaedcjhm> hi
[11:15] <Lilandra> hi
[11:16] <sdfsaedcjhm> wassup
[11:16] <Lilandra> nothing much
[11:16] <sdfsaedcjhm> ah
[11:17] <sdfsaedcjhm> do you use edubuntu?
[11:17] <Lilandra> atm yes
[11:17] <sdfsaedcjhm> is it good?
[11:17] <Lilandra> im trying to get my trackpad to work but 
[11:17] <Lilandra> well i think it's nice and cute
[11:17] <sdfsaedcjhm> is it better than the other ubuntus?
[11:18] <Lilandra> better? well i don't know if any is better than another
[11:18] <sdfsaedcjhm> what desktop does it use?
[11:18] <LaserJock> Gnome
[11:18] <Lilandra> personally i prefer gnome to kde so ubuntu/edubuntu to me are nicer
[11:18] <sdfsaedcjhm> ah
[11:18] <Lilandra> i tried xubuntu and that was ok
[11:18] <LaserJock> and Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubtunu, and Xubuntu all come from the same software repositories
[11:18] <LaserJock> so they are pretty similar
[11:19] <LaserJock> it's just a matter of default packaging mostly
[11:19] <sdfsaedcjhm> so what are the small differences?
[11:19] <LaserJock> well, in Edubuntu there are educational applications installed by default
[11:20] <LaserJock> and you can install and LTSP server using Edubuntu
[11:20] <LaserJock> it's geared more for schools and young kids
[11:20] <Lilandra> could you not do that for other ubuntus?
[11:20] <LaserJock> sure
[11:20] <LaserJock> but with Edubuntu it's just automatically there
[11:21] <LaserJock> same as you can install Kubuntu
[11:21] <LaserJock> and then install Gnome and use Gnome if you wanted to
[11:21] <LaserJock> but then why not just install Ubuntu
[11:21] <Lilandra> are just install all the desktops
[11:21] <Lilandra> :)
[11:21] <LaserJock> sure
[11:21] <LaserJock> I do that sometimes too
[11:22] <Lilandra> i wish when i partitioned my powerbook i gave more room for linux
[11:22] <sdfsaedcjhm> all of them?
[11:25] <Lilandra> gtg! bye
[11:40] <cbx33> ping ogra