[12:59] <sivang> does anyone recall by heat the keystroke in VIM to make lines aling with the same ident as the line upper ?
[12:59] <sivang> heart, even
[01:13] <LarstiQ> sivang: I'm not aware of that
[01:35] <slomo> Riddell: you might want to ship the qt4 dbus bindings with qt4-x11-kdecopy as you already ship the debug build of it
[01:42] <Burgwork> fabbione, ubuntulog appears to have vanished from #ubuntu-meeting
[02:07] <Chipzz> sivang: you may be referring to =, which just correctly indents everything; it has however, nothing to do with the previous line, but is mostly used in visual mode or on a block of lines
[02:10] <tseng> Chipzz: whoa!
[02:10] <tseng> Chipzz: i had no idea
[02:10] <Chipzz> tseng: > increases indent, < decreases
[02:10] <tseng> knew that
[02:10] <tseng> but = is pretty rad
[02:11] <Chipzz> it can also screw you pretty badly
[02:11] <tseng> (in visual mode)
[02:11] <tseng> well
[02:11] <Chipzz> fortunately, there's undo
[02:11] <tseng> there is undo
[02:11] <Chipzz> yes
[02:11] <Chipzz> if you like long lines, it also wraps lines
[02:11] <Chipzz> or is that the indent command?
[02:13] <desrt> Size: 418662
[02:13] <LaserJock> well, more feature wise, I guess
[02:14] <LaserJock> me is looking forward to emacs-nano on the default install ;-)
[02:14] <tseng> hah
[02:15] <LaserJock> s/me/I/ stupid IRC grammar is ruining me
[02:15] <gnomefreak> scribus-doc is not installible
[02:15] <tseng> I is not liking emacs
[02:15] <LaserJock> no?
[02:15] <LaserJock> I keep switching back and forth
[02:16] <LaserJock> but planner-el is keeping me with emacs presently
[02:16] <gnomefreak> lol
[02:17] <LaserJock> if I found a way to do it without emacs I'd probably go back to vim
[02:17] <LaserJock> as emacs is so huge
[02:19] <gnomefreak> gvim looks to have lost the .desktop file :(
[02:20] <HrdwrBoB> you need a .desktop to launch gvim?
[02:21] <gnomefreak> no dont need but it used to have one 
[03:19] <Hobbsee> hey all
[03:21] <sladen> hey Hobbsee, must be getting towards spring-time down there
[03:22] <Hobbsee> sladen: almost, yeah :D
[04:19] <Keybuk> that was fun
[04:19] <Keybuk> I changed the ttys from "when rc2 is stopping" to "on startup"
[04:19] <niKsternal> Kamion: ping?
[04:20] <Keybuk> I think I'm going to leave them like that
[04:42] <jdub> Keybuk: ping
[04:42] <Keybuk> jdub: heyhy
[04:42] <jdub> yo!
[04:42] <jdub> http://lists.slug.org.au/archives/slug/2006/08/msg00318.html
[04:42] <jdub> ^ bug or solveable?
[04:47] <Keybuk> jdub: he needs to "mkdir /var/run /var/lock" without his /var mounted
[04:47] <Keybuk> or $(mount --bind / /mnt && mkdir /mnt/var/run /mnt/var/lock && umount /mnt)
[04:48] <jdub> Keybuk: right, so it's a matter of the underlying directories not existing?
[04:48] <Keybuk> right
[04:48] <Keybuk> and there's nothing we can do about that at boot, because the whole point of those directories is that they're for when we don't have a writable filesystem
[04:48] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Knot2 <-- missing anything major? (any major mistakes)?
[04:48] <Keybuk> no writable filesystem = no mkdir
[04:48] <Burgundavia> not done, for the record
[04:50] <jdub> Keybuk: so those tmpfs mounts will still appear, even if /var is mounted after they are mounted?
[04:51] <ohoel> Burgundavia: hightlighting AIGLX with nothing that utilises it by default seems a bit weird
[04:51] <ohoel> highlighting*
[04:51] <Burgundavia> ohoel: it is installed by deafult, however
[04:51] <Burgundavia> just not turned on
[04:52] <ohoel> is compositor support in metacity still a pain?
[04:53] <ohoel> I haven't heard anyone sing praise for libcm :)
[04:53] <Keybuk> jdub: they will
[04:53] <Burgundavia> no idea
[04:53] <Keybuk> ohoel: if you have edgy, run compiz --replace for shiny bling
[04:55] <jdub> Keybuk: thanks
[04:56] <ohoel> Keybuk: yeah, and I know I'm being a nitpicking jerk, but compiz is in universe, while I thought the release notes were supposed to highlight default features
[05:01] <Keybuk> ohoel: for milestones, it's probably enough to just talk about everything
[05:03] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: when can you upload some major breakage to edgy?  :P  we're getting users wanting to upgrade for new features, and complaining as it breaks, again
[05:05] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: when it's not frozen
[05:06] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: well, yeah. i more meant "how soon after it's stopped being frozen"
[05:06] <Keybuk> immediately
[05:06] <Hobbsee> woo :)
[05:06] <Keybuk> in fact, I can upload anyway given upstart is still in universe :p
[05:07] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: woot!  that could be fun
[05:11] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: now that's not the way to become a core-dev ;-)
[05:12] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: true.  if i go for it again.
[05:43] <Keybuk> syndicate scott# initctl jobs &
[05:43] <Keybuk> [1]  7180
[05:43] <Keybuk> syndicate scott# runlevel
[05:43] <Keybuk> N 2
[05:43] <Keybuk> syndicate scott# telinit 3
[05:43] <Keybuk> syndicate scott# rc3 (start) starting, process 7185 active
[05:43] <Keybuk> rc3 (start) running, process 7187 active
[05:43] <Keybuk> rc3 (stop) stopping, process none
[05:43] <Keybuk> rc3 (stop) waiting
[05:43] <Keybuk> syndicate scott# runlevel
[05:43] <Keybuk> 2 3
[05:43] <Keybuk> -- 
[05:43] <Keybuk> how can something so evil be so *right* ?! :p
[05:47] <Keybuk> that's doing things "properly" too, storing the runlevel in utmp/wtmp
[05:47] <Keybuk> it's just all done with event handlers, and not a single piece of "runlevel" knowledge hard-coded into upstart \o/
[06:12] <Keybuk> grr
[06:12] <Keybuk> init: rc6 process (7096) killed by signal 15
[06:12] <Keybuk> WHY?!
[07:09] <Burgundavia> crimsun: could alacarte edit the system menu in dapper?
[07:10] <crimsun> can't say (never tried, no fast access to a dapper system to test atm)
[07:10] <Burgundavia> yep
[07:11] <StevenK> Burgundavia: It can.
[07:11] <Burgundavia> right
[07:31] <dottedmag> Where is the authoritative source of information about writing ubuntu-compliant initscripts? Debian policy (even up-to-date) does not seem to be relevant, due to lsb-thingy.
[08:41] <sivang> morning
[08:41] <Burgundavia> morning sivang
[08:42] <sivang> Burgundavia: hey corey
[08:42] <Burgundavia> can you take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Knot2
[08:43] <Burgundavia> morning dholbach
[08:44] <dholbach> good morning
[08:44] <dholbach> hey burg
[08:44] <dholbach> hey Burgundavia
[08:44] <Mithrandir> good morning, Daniel
[08:44] <Mithrandir> Riddell: do you want new livefs builds for kubuntu?
[08:44] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir: what is my timing on the Knot2 page? Should I move it to the website before I go to sleep?
[08:45] <dholbach> hey Tollef - having fun early in the morning already?
[08:45] <Mithrandir> dholbach: if your idea of fun includes "building RC knot CDs", then yes.
[08:46] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: Wiki or website -- both are fine with me.  Can the docteam still edit it if it's on the website?
[08:46] <Burgundavia> no, but myself and Matthew East can
[08:47] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: ok, I guess that's good enough, then.  Thanks a lot for your work on the page -- it's absolutely appreciated.
[08:48] <Burgundavia> no worries
[08:49] <Burgundavia> can you give a quick glance over the page to see if I missed anything big?
[08:50] <Mithrandir> sure, give me a minute to do it.
[08:51] <moberg_> vuntz: hi
[08:52] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: looks good to me.
[08:57] <dholbach> f-spot and gthumb are both in the desktop seed?
[08:58] <Burgundavia> that would be a check
[09:00] <dholbach> Burgundavia: a check?
[09:01] <Burgundavia> dholbach: an affirmative to the fspot and gthumb
[09:01] <dholbach> ah ok
[09:01] <Kamion> nixternal: yes?
[09:01] <nixternal> hey Kamion, you are the one posting the knot 2 announcement correct?
[09:03] <Kamion> nixternal: that would be Mithrandir, I expect
[09:03] <nixternal> roger that ;)  thanks
[09:04] <nixternal> Mithrandir: if you are posting the knot 2 announcement, here is the link to the Kubuntu release info  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Knot2/Kubuntu
[09:04] <Mithrandir> nixternal: cheers.
[09:05] <nixternal> kool..thank you ;)
[09:05] <Mithrandir> the CSS on that page is _seriously_ funky.  The content box on the right hand side starts out in the right position and then "walks" upwards for a bit as the page loads.
[09:06] <Mithrandir> might just be Opera doing something weird.
[09:06] <nixternal> i know it renders ok with ff1, ff2, and konqi
[09:06] <nixternal> it could be the amount of images as well causing the issue
[09:06] <nixternal> i tried to shrink them down as much as possible, and still be presentable
[09:07] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/knot1
[09:07] <Mithrandir> the system settings menu is _so_ a ripoff of the apple control panel. :-)
[09:08] <Mithrandir> s/menu//
[09:08] <Burgundavia> and?
[09:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: can I start alternate builds? I'd like to test my no-more-devfs changes
[09:08] <nixternal> heh
[09:08] <Mithrandir> Kamion: go ahead.
[09:08] <Burgundavia> oh, wait. I am an idiot
[09:08] <Burgundavia> it is knot2
[09:09] <nixternal> lol
[09:09] <Burgundavia> it is midnight here
[09:09] <Kamion> ok, running
[09:09] <Burgundavia> nixternal: tell me, where are the Europeans to help out the marketing people, anyway?
[09:10] <nixternal> i have no clue
[09:10] <nixternal> they aren't in Chicago..i know that for a fact ;)
[09:10] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir: make that http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/knot2
[09:11] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: thanks.
[09:11] <Burgundavia> one final check before I crash?'
[09:13] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: I'm happy with it.
[09:13] <Burgundavia> then so am I
[09:14] <Burgundavia> if you need anything changed, you will need to ping Nuzum, henrik or mdke
[09:14] <Kamion> Burgundavia: "the menu editor, Alacarte and gnome-power-manager"
[09:14] <Kamion> Burgundavia: that looks like a list of three items
[09:14] <Kamion> perhaps "the menu editor (Alacarte) and gnome-power-manager"
[09:14] <Burgundavia> or another comma
[09:14] <Kamion> no
[09:15] <Kamion> that would be a list of three items using the Oxford-comma convention
[09:15] <Burgundavia> did you idea
[09:15] <Kamion> which is common in British English
[09:15] <Kamion> foo, bar, and baz
[09:15] <Burgundavia> I trust your judgement, given it is morning there and night here
[09:15] <Kamion> the text rendering in the Firefox screenshot is nasty, but probably not much to be done about that
[09:16] <Burgundavia> that is utter default
[09:16] <Kamion> "the always biting Matthew Garrett"? :-)
[09:16] <Burgundavia> isn't it fun?
[09:16] <Burgundavia> that text should be gone
[09:16] <Burgundavia> look again
[09:16] <Kamion> it is, but is in the Firefox screenshot ;-)
[09:17] <Burgundavia> ah, yes
[09:17] <Mithrandir> heh
[09:17] <Burgundavia> it was early attempt at humour that did not survive the night
[09:19] <Burgundavia> truly: any last thoughts?
[09:47] <doko> Riddell: is gstreamer installed in a KDE desktop setup?
[09:53] <zyga> hi
[09:53] <zyga> did anyone notice that after dapper->edgy upgrade it takes several times longer to open a tab in gnome-terminal than to open a new window in it?
[09:57] <nixternal> anyone else have a broken vmware-server after recent edgy updates?
[09:57] <zyga> also all tabs other than the first one seem extereemly sluggish
[10:06] <zyga> any gnome hacker want to have a look at gaim deadlock?
[10:06] <zyga> I've got a backtrace
[10:07] <dholbach> zyga: best to file a bug with a debug backtrace (gaim upstream guys read the gaim bugs in malone as well)
[10:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: all alternates built
[10:08] <Mithrandir> Kamion: let's get started with the testing, then. :-)
[10:08] <zyga> dholbach: it's not just gaim
[10:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I've noticed a bug though - partman isn't writing out swap entries with a UUID
[10:08] <zyga> gnome-terminal is affected too
[10:08] <Kamion> rather, the swap partition has a UUID, but it's not in /etc/fstab
[10:08] <zyga> Id' bet that any gnome app using tabs has this
[10:09] <Mithrandir> I'll start off with alternate amd64.
[10:09] <dholbach> zyga: accessibility enabled?
[10:09] <Kamion> this is problematic because that will not now be changed on upgrade
[10:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: grr.. I'd like not to hold off because of it, can you think of a workaround?
[10:09] <zyga> dholbach: yes
[10:09] <ogra> Mithrandir, i just discovered an odd ltsp bug in the autoinstaller (will only affect edubuntu and xubuntus ltsp mode) ...
[10:10] <ogra> :/
[10:10] <dholbach> zyga: bug 58068
[10:10] <Ubug2> Malone bug 58068 in gnome-terminal "can't open new tabs (with a11y turned on)" [Unknown,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58068
[10:10] <zyga> oh :)
[10:10] <Mithrandir> ogra: can you elaborate, please?
[10:10] <dholbach> zyga: upstream would love you if you'd investigate it
[10:10] <Kamion> Mithrandir: well, we could do the fstab conversion again in volumeid later, but that's very non-ideal because some people may already be trying to avoid it
[10:10] <dholbach> zyga: or could follow up with some more information
[10:10] <Kamion> I'm just trying to figure out now why it's happening
[10:11] <Kamion> worth checking whether it affects the desktop CD too
[10:11] <ogra> Mithrandir, it doesnt finish the ltsp chroot (which breaks edubuntus install) due to a plugin i merged from debians branch being called to early ...
[10:11] <zyga> dholbach: I'll add info that gaim is affected too
[10:11] <zyga> and try poking at that backtrace
[10:11] <zyga> thanks for the easy start
[10:12] <ogra> Mithrandir, i just need to move a file to a different dir ... would you oppose an upload ? (wont affect ubuntu /kubuntu)
[10:12] <dholbach> zyga: way to go
[10:14] <Mithrandir> janimo: do you have any feelings about the ltsp bug mentioned above? ^^
[10:15] <ogra> additionally it seems there were 4M added to my i386 iso over night, damned
[10:17] <Mithrandir> ogra: uh, the cronjobs are turned off, so I really doubt anything was changed without you touching it
[10:17] <ogra> i didnt build the 20060831 iso
[10:17] <Kamion> urgh, I think busybox mkswap must still be broken
[10:17] <Hobbsee> ogra: blame the gremlins?  :P
[10:18] <ogra> seems the dbus stuff made it grow on i386 and shrink on the other arches
[10:18] <Kamion> I built Edubuntu alternate along with all the others
[10:18] <ogra> Kamion, right ...
[10:19] <Mithrandir> I need to pop out for a little bit, bbiab.
[10:19] <ogra> Mithrandir, any word on ltsp before ? 
[10:20] <Kamion> oh, for pity's sake, how many implementations of mkswap do we need
[10:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: if I can fix parted to create UUIDs on swap partitions, can I upload it?
[10:20] <Kamion> doesn't need a debian-installer rebuild
[10:21] <ogra> why the heck did only i386 grow .... grmbl
[10:23] <zyga> did keybuk write upstart?
[10:24] <fujitsu> zyga, yep.
[10:25] <zyga> k
[10:29] <janimo> Mithrandir: that ltsp bug should not hold up xubuntu alternate as far as I am concerned, I have just learned about it now that ogra mentioned it
[10:30] <janimo> but if it's easily fixable it may be worth respinning after it's uploaded
[10:42] <Riddell> doko: no, we dont have gstreamer in kubuntu
[10:43] <Riddell> Mithrandir: yes, new livefs builds would be good
[10:48] <kagou> animimotus: j'ai a aussi, plus 2 gamins (3 ans et 10 mois) qui me cherchent :) Ce soir  18H UTC - 1 ils seront couchs. Non mais ...
[10:48] <mvo_> zyga: anything yet to merge from for c-m-f :) ?
[10:48] <kagou> sorry
[10:48] <zyga> mvo_: not yet :/
[10:49] <zyga> mvo_: I don't have a solution for alternatives yet
[10:49] <zyga> mvo_: I was thinking about splitting the data per source repo so that user will get notified that 'foo' is in universe
[10:52] <mvo_> zyga: that is a interessting idea! I could extend the current extration script to look for update-alteratives in postinst. then we can work out how many packages are affected. IIRC we have only quite old information about this, right?
[10:53] <zyga> mvo_: AFAIR about ~100 packages are affected, about 10 or so are top priority and can be processed manually
[10:54] <zyga> mvo_: how do I run your data extraction script?
[10:54] <mvo_> zyga: that sounds good then
[10:54] <mvo_> zyga: unfortunately it needs a compelete mirror on the machine where it runs
[10:54] <zyga> mvo_: we can use the suggestion system for manually processed packages
[10:54] <zyga> mvo_: any rsync magic I can run to get that?
[10:54] <zyga> I'm sitting on one fat pipe here
[10:54] <mvo_> zyga: yes, that sounds good, I will add this feature 
[10:55] <mvo_> zyga: I will have a look
[10:55] <mvo_> zyga: about the rsync
[10:55] <zyga> mvo_: I'll hack on extracting the repo part but just tell me how to get that repo here :)
[10:55] <zyga> thanks
[10:57] <mvo_> zyga: I think debmirror should do what you need
[10:57] <zyga> checking that out now
[10:58] <mvo_> zyga: when you have a mirror simply run the script in DataExtractor.mvo with "-d /path/to/the/mirror"
[10:58] <mvo_> zyga: for full coverage we may need it on a mirror with all arches to get packages that are e.g. only available on ppc
[11:01] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, if you can get it fixed RSN, then it's ok.  If it needs a bit of time, I say we don't care about it.
[11:01] <zyga> mvo_: yes I did notice we are i386 only ATM
[11:01] <Mithrandir> ogra: as it's ok with Xubuntu, feel free to upload
[11:01] <ogra> yay
[11:01] <mvo_> zyga: the extraction code will (or rather should :) go over all three supported arches
[11:02] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'm testing the fix now
[11:02] <ogra> Mithrandir, edubuntu-meta fine with you as well ?
[11:02] <zyga> mvo_: I need to fix debmirror to look at ubuntu, not debian ;)
[11:02] <Kamion> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/parted-swap-uuid.dpatch
[11:02] <mvo_> zyga: heh :)
[11:02] <Mithrandir> ogra: edubuntu-meta is fine with me -- worst case you end up having to fix it yourself. :-)
[11:02] <ogra> :)
[11:02] <ogra> thanks
[11:03] <Kamion> the annoying bit is that volumeid.postinst actually generates a uuid for the new swap partition, but only after /target/etc/fstab has been written
[11:03] <ogra> Mithrandir, i was assuming that, but youre the frozen master ;)
[11:03] <Mithrandir> muhahaha :-)
[11:03] <ogra> hihi
[11:04] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien-wired ~>$ sudo parted -s /dev/hda mkfs 4 linux-swap
[11:04] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien-wired ~>$ sudo vol_id -u /dev/hda4
[11:04] <Kamion> 58a7b66f-ea30-4303-af4c-1493a0525324
[11:04] <Kamion> excellent
[11:04] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, go ahead.
[11:04] <infinity> Bah, I should have turned off cron.daily 3 minutes ago.
[11:04] <infinity> Oh well.
[11:05] <infinity> ogra: ...?
[11:05] <Kamion> infinity: I was just thinking that :(
[11:05] <ogra> infinity, i dropped gcc and headers for a quick size reduction
[11:05] <ogra> i dont know where else i should free up 4M right now
[11:06] <Mithrandir> infinity: can you force an immediate publisher run when this one finishes?
[11:07] <infinity> Mithrandir: Of course, and was planning on it.
[11:07] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[11:07] <zyga> mvo_: cool I got it working
[11:07] <mvo_> zyga: rock!
[11:07] <Kamion> parted uploaded
[11:08] <cbx33> Hi all in an effort to reduce CD size....
[11:09] <cbx33> I believe I can shave 2Mb+
[11:09] <cbx33> by making the gnome system or whatever is responsible play oggs for system sounds
[11:09] <cbx33> we are currently using well over 2Mb
[11:09] <cbx33> the new sounds I have made are around 300-400Kb
[11:10] <cbx33> just wondered if anyone knew if thiswas a possiblilty as ogg is supported OOTB
[11:13] <Kamion> cbx33: sounds reasonable; can you talk to Frank Schoep about that?
[11:14] <cbx33> ok sure
[11:14] <cbx33> I'm in close contact with him anyway
[11:14] <zyga> mvo_: pull from suxx.pl/~zyga/command-not-found to get mirror script
[11:14] <Kamion> cbx33: great
[11:17] <mvo_> zyga: pulling
[11:17] <zyga> mvo_: i386 alone is 14GB of data
[11:18] <zyga> it will take almost a day
[11:20] <mvo_> zyga: I can run it on a ubuntu machine, you could just mirror a tiny bit (e.g. pool/main/a) to test the stuff and then we just run the full extraction on a different machine
[11:21] <zyga> mvo_: I'm pulling the whole bit anyway, I won't have time to work on this till I get home
[11:21] <zyga> I'm at work ATM
[11:21] <mvo_> zyga: ok :)
[11:21] <zyga> extracting section is easy, we'll just make a number of databases (edgy-main.db and so on)
[11:22] <zyga> checking which is enabled might be more tricky
[11:22] <zyga> (or does apt already know)
[11:23] <seaLne> sould alternate be able to install onto lvm just now?
[11:25] <mvo_> zyga: we have a "aptsources" module in update-manager should should be able to give us this information
[11:25] <mvo_> zyga: initialy ist may just be enough to display the section (if not main) and check if the package is installable/available and display a message if not to enable the componenet
[11:26] <mvo_> zyga: we will probably need to add architecture information to the db as well
[11:27] <zyga> mvo_: right
[11:27] <zyga> mvo_: how about: $DIST-$ARCH-$REPO
[11:27] <zyga> and just pick the set currently used (multiarch might benefit)
[11:27] <zyga> so we get lots of files
[11:28] <zyga> cnf-data will probably grow a bit
[11:28] <mvo_> sounds good
[11:29] <slomo> doko: erm why was a python-gst0.10 b-d needed for gstreamer0.10?
[11:29] <zyga> mvo_: this way we won't waste space on storing i386 a bazillion of times
[11:29] <Riddell> Mithrandir: did you start a kubuntu livefs  build?
[11:31] <Kamion> hmm, I apparently forgot about cdrom-detect in no-more-devfs
[11:34] <slomo> doko: i don't think it's a good idea to have gstreamer0.10 b-d on itself :/
[11:45] <infinity> Riddell: They all failed -- kubuntu-live is uninstallable.
[11:46] <infinity>   qtparted: Depends: libparted1.6-13 (>= 1.6.24) but it is not installable
[11:46] <infinity> Riddell: qtparted needs a rebuild with the new libparted, looks like.
[11:47] <infinity> Riddell: Can you do a test build, make sure it works, and upload for that?
[11:48] <Riddell> infinity: doing
[11:51] <seaLne> should d-i be able to install to multiple lvm partitions? neither knot-1 or todays daily do
[11:51] <Mithrandir> Riddell: yeah, but my ssh session timed out, for some reason. :-/
[11:52] <Mithrandir> Riddell: they seem to have finished, but I'll check that they're all complete.
[11:52] <infinity> Mithrandir: See a few lines up.
[11:53] <Mithrandir> infinity: gah.
[11:53] <infinity> Mithrandir: You do check that your builds actually work, right?  ubuntu-amd64 seemed broken too.
[11:53] <Mithrandir> infinity: yes, I tend to do that.
[11:54] <Kamion> the health checks will kick off shortly anyway ...
[11:54] <infinity> Gah, and that's why amd64 failed.
[11:55] <Kamion> seaLne: sorry, maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet, but could you elaborate?
[11:57] <seaLne> Kamion: i was trying to install with todays alternate to multiple lvm partitions (root usr var tmp) aswell as a normal boot and swap partition, the install fails during install base
[11:58] <Kamion> seaLne: ok, I'll give that a try in a moment
[11:59] <seaLne> Kamion: the fact that it also fails on knot-1 makes me think its not just a problem with todays daily
[11:59] <seaLne> Kamion: kubuntu, but i don't think that will make any difference for this
[12:00] <Kamion> no, it wouldn't
[12:00] <Kamion> I haven't tested LVM since the big merge from Debian in Edgy, so it could well be broken
[12:01] <seaLne> sda1 = boot, sda2 = swap, sda3 = lvm (root usr var tmp)
[12:01] <Kamion> created from scratch in d-i, or pre-existing?
[12:01] <Kamion> (the lvm vg)
[12:03] <seaLne> currently pre existing, i think i could have done them with d-i? but i didn't see that when i first tried earlier today, let me know if their is anything i can test as its a new machine with nothing on it
[12:04] <Kamion> extracting the log files and putting them somewhere might speed up the fix; use 'save debug logs' from d-i's main menu
[12:05] <seaLne> i tried that but it tried again to do base install
[12:05] <Kamion> did you get back to the main menu at all?
[12:05] <seaLne> i think it is creating devices it is failing on but it dosen't quite show enough
[12:05] <seaLne> yes, to get to save logs
[12:05] <Kamion> weird, save-logs doesn't depend on base-installer
[12:06] <Kamion> well, 'anna-install openssh-client-udeb' from tty2 and you'll be able to copy off the logs
[12:06] <Kamion> with scp
[12:06] <seaLne> ah strange changed dir to /tmp and it saved them fine
[12:08] <seaLne> "unknown user 0" for scping
[12:08] <Kamion> knot-1 or current?
[12:09] <Kamion> works for me with the current daily, was known breakage in knot-1
[12:09] <seaLne> ah i think i might have knot-1 in just now sorry
[12:10] <seaLne> "dmsetup: not found" is the error before it fails
[12:10] <seaLne> could not find package lvm2 :)
[12:11] <seaLne> sorry give me a few minutes to reburn daily used the same cdrw
[12:14] <Kamion> oh, did we move lvm2 to supported instead of ship?
[12:14] <Kamion> silly mdz
[12:21] <doko> slomo: see #385439
[12:22] <Kamion> seaLne: ok, should be fixed for the next or possibly the next-but-one build, depending on exactly how long my seed change takes to propagate
[12:22] <Kamion> seaLne: thanks for the report
[12:23] <Kamion> seaLne: (problem was that lvm2 et al had been removed from standard without making them available for the installer to use)
[12:25] <Kamion> seaLne: oh, hmm, I may have spoken too soon, the error is a little weirder than that
[12:26] <Kamion> seaLne: no, should be fine. indecisive, moi? :)
[12:26] <Kamion> I think the dmsetup error is spurious
[12:45] <nags> seb128, Hi
[12:46] <seb128> hi nags
[12:46] <seb128> lunch timme, bll
[12:46] <infinity> Riddell: Err, were those kde-i18n uploads required for Kont-2?
[12:46] <nags> seb128, sure, meet you later
[12:46] <infinity> Riddell: If so, I'll push them through.
[12:46] <seb128> nags: feel free to ask your question if you have one ;)
[12:46] <seb128> I'll reply when I'm back
[12:47] <nags> seb128, nothing special, its been long days, since I said hi, so ;)
[12:47] <nags> seb128, In Mozilla accessibility hackfest LDTP is one of the important agenda - FYI - http://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility_Hackfest_2006
[12:48] <gnomefreak> is it true that irssi is being removed from install?
[12:49] <tseng> gnomefreak: sounds feasible, and yes things are being removed
[12:49] <Kamion> already has been
[12:49] <Kamion> supported: * irssi
[12:50] <Kamion> timestamp: Mon 2006-06-19 09:48:28 -0700
[12:50] <Kamion> message:
[12:50] <Kamion>   Move irssi from desktop to supported; it isn't a desktop application
[12:50] <gnomefreak> tseng: now gnome doesnt ship with an irc client other than gaim.
[12:50] <tseng> gnomefreak: what does irssi have to do with gnome
[12:51] <tseng> irssi is completely opaque to a new user, if they can even find it
[12:51] <gnomefreak> tseng: the xserver-xorg-video-all is not being installed on upgrade (not sure about clean install) but that leaves 80% of users without X adn now without a way to get help
[12:51] <tseng> gnomefreak: on edgy?
[12:52] <Kamion> we can/should fix that before edgy; users who can't fix that sort of thing themselves shouldn't be running edgy
[12:52] <gnomefreak> yes
[12:52] <tseng> well, its edgy
[12:52] <tseng> if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces
[12:52] <Kamion> we have been entirely consistent about this message since the hoary development cycle
[12:52] <gnomefreak> Kamion: that i understand and i tell people its not stable cant fix it dont use it (but they are stubborn)
[12:52] <Kamion> well, then it's a learning experiece
[12:52] <Kamion> experience
[12:52] <tseng> anyway, back to my point
[12:53] <tseng> if you can't figure out how to fix your edgy box
[12:53] <gnomefreak> dont use it
[12:53] <Kamion> and perhaps they will learn how to fix things in the process
[12:53] <tseng> there is a good possibility you don't know what irssi is
[12:53] <tseng> and its unhelpful interface
[12:53] <Riddell> infinity: they arent required but they dont currelynt install otherwise
[12:53] <gnomefreak> well i was thinking if its size issue to remove gaim instead of irssi 
[12:54] <tseng> hah-hah
[12:54] <Kamion> no, we're not going to leave the system without a graphical interface in favour of a textual one
[12:54] <tseng> gaim is largely more useful to most people
[12:54] <tseng> if you can get to a shell you can apt-get install irssi if you know how to use it, anyway
[12:55] <seaLne> Kamion: thanks, sorry got called away to fix something
[12:55] <tseng> if you don't know what it is or how to use it, I don't see how it helps you being preinstalled
[12:56] <tseng> irssi being the liferaft of Joe User is a huge strech
[12:56] <gnomefreak> understood
[01:04] <slomo> doko: weird... why does it still build on the buildds? let me retry...
[01:05] <ogra> seb128, did you add the patch for g-p-m actions to gnome-session yet ? i dont see any buttons
[01:05] <ogra> oh
[01:05] <ogra> hmm
[01:27] <doko> seb128: (soffice.bin:2103): GLib-WARNING **: getpwuid_r(): failed due to unknown user id (1000)
[01:27] <doko> $ getent passwd 1000
[01:27] <doko> doko:x:1000:1000:Matthias Klose,,,:/home/doko:/bin/bash
[01:28] <doko> ?
[01:29] <seb128> doko: weird
[01:30] <seb128> doko: what do you do to get that?
[01:30] <doko> start a new OOo build in a chroot on amd64. I currently cannot install that natively. do you want to give it a try?
[01:31] <seb128> not really
[01:31] <seb128> getpwuid_r() is not a glib function though, the message is weird
[01:31] <doko> sure, that's glibc, but called by glib
[01:32] <seb128> do you have a simple testcase?
[01:32] <doko> not yet
[01:32] <seb128> ok, let me know if you have one
[01:33] <seb128> usually you can use --g-fatal-warnings to break on a warning and get a bt
[01:33] <seb128> but that's when running something, dunno what your build is doing
[01:33] <seb128> like if there is somewhere you can plug the argument for it
[01:35] <slomo> doko: it still builds without python-gst0.10 here
[01:36] <doko> slomo: yes, see the reply from the debian maintainer ... confused ...
[01:36] <seb128> I'm away for some time, bbl
[02:11] <cbx33> ping vuntz 
[02:13] <zyga> mvo: I've got 4.5GB already, about 10GB to go
[02:41] <ogra> hmm, update-initramfs and my p133 seem not to like each other ... lots of segfaults ...
[03:01] <zul> ok i have a question on the nvidia driver for xen should it be ok to include it as a patch with the xen-3.0 or should i create a sepereate deb for it, ie call it xen-nvidia or osmething like that
[03:02] <zul> i guess i am looking for opinnon/advice
[03:02] <bddebian> Morning
[03:04] <Kamion> zul: I'd go for xen-restricted-modules-2.6.16 myself
[03:04] <Mithrandir> Riddell: are all the pieces you need for the livefs-es built and published yet?
[03:05] <zyga> Kamion: xen restricted? what is restricted about xen?
[03:05] <zul> Kamion: and an xen-meta as well?
[03:06] <Mithrandir> zyga: the restricted modules, built for xen.
[03:06] <Mithrandir> zyga: such as nvidia.
[03:06] <zyga> ah, right
[03:08] <Riddell> Mithrandir: yes, please do new livefs
[03:08] <Mithrandir> Riddell: building
[03:08] <Kamion> zul: not so crucial as for the mainline kernels, I'd say, but up to you
[03:09] <zul> okie dokie
[03:14] <prudhvi> Hi, i would like to add IN_te support to Ubiquity. how can i do that ?
[03:20] <Mithrandir> Riddell: I'll build you new alternate ISOs, if you'd like?
[03:21] <Mithrandir> (livefs-es are still not finished)
[03:21] <Kamion> prudhvi: you mean te_IN?
[03:21] <prudhvi> Kamion, yes
[03:21] <Kamion> prudhvi: you need to start out by getting support for your language into d-i, and getting it translated to a reasonable level
[03:21] <Riddell> Mithrandir: please
[03:21] <Mithrandir> Riddell: running.
[03:21] <Kamion> prudhvi: that's best done in Debian - we *can* add languages to the installer in Ubuntu, but it's a lot of work for me
[03:21] <Mithrandir> ogra: same for you once kubuntu is ready?
[03:22] <prudhvi> Kamion, hmm, so i need to Add te_IN support to d-i initially ?
[03:22] <doko> Mithrandir: should alternate CD's be tested as well?
[03:22] <Kamion> prudhvi: yeah
[03:23] <bddebian> doko: You didn't send me any azureus URLs ;-)
[03:23] <Kamion> prudhvi: ubiquity is based fairly heavily on d-i
[03:23] <Mithrandir> doko: yes, please.
[03:24] <Mithrandir> janimo: do you want rebuilds of the Xubuntu CDs?  There was some installer problems which are fixed now which you might want to pick up.
[03:24] <doko> bddebian: oops, wait ...
[03:24] <janimo> Mithrandir: sure, thanks
[03:25] <prudhvi> Kamion, most of the Gnome Translations have already been done nearly 85% is done 
[03:25] <Kamion> prudhvi: if you've already been working on translating the debian-installer package in Rosetta, you can use that file to seriously jump-start your translation of d-i upstream; most of the strings are common
[03:25] <janimo> Mithrandir: and I have made uploads yesterday after the last cdimage
[03:30] <Mithrandir> janimo: xubuntu alternate running
[03:31] <Mithrandir> Riddell: kubuntu alternate done, livefs-es still building.
[03:33] <seaLne> does kubuntu 20060831.1 have lvm2 in it?
[03:34] <seaLne> ah looking at the .list file it seems to
[03:34] <jdong|coreduo> ooh, is the alternate cd failing for someone other than me on lvm2? :)
[03:34] <jdong|coreduo> or is 831.1 actually gonna work?
[03:34] <seaLne> lvm2 wasn't in it :)
[03:34] <jdong|coreduo> seaLne: yeah... for a few weeks now :)
[03:34] <jdong|coreduo> that's what I've been crying and whining about :)
[03:35] <seaLne> obviously not to the right person, kamino fixed it when we worked out what it was
[03:35] <ogra> Mithrandir, thanks
[03:35] <Mithrandir> ogra: was that a "yes"? :-)
[03:36] <ogra> err, yes
[03:36] <Mithrandir> ogra: willdo.
[03:36] <ogra> sorry, i'm a bit confused here ... 
[03:36] <jdong|coreduo> seaLne: it's more fun to cry and whine to imbrandon :)
[03:37] <jdong|coreduo> morning, Keybuk 
[03:37] <Keybuk> heya
[03:38] <jdong|coreduo> holy mother of god how did amarok build??
[03:39] <Hobbsee> dholbach: hah.
[03:39] <Hobbsee> oops
[03:39] <Hobbsee> jdong|coreduo: hah.
[03:39] <Hobbsee> jdong|coreduo: something crazy's happened to kopete too, btw
[03:40] <Kamion> jdong|coreduo: imbrandon isn't in core-dev and couldn't possibly have fixed the bug
[03:40] <Kamion> (it required a seed change, which is access-controlled to core-dev)
[03:40] <jdong|coreduo> Kamion: I know, but it's still fun nontheless to tease him about it :)
[03:40] <jdong|coreduo> either way, thanks for making the cd's work now :)
[03:41] <Kamion> shame I didn't hear about it until today - it would have been easy to fix weeks ago as well
[03:41] <jdong|coreduo> Kamion: next time I'll complain a bit louder to core-dev :)
[03:41] <jdong|coreduo> Hobbsee: what's up with kopete?
[03:41] <Mithrandir> ogra: I presume you want livefs-es too?
[03:41] <Mithrandir> janimo: ^^ same goes for you?
[03:41] <Hobbsee> jdong|coreduo: according to LP it's built, and in the archives, yet dapper users cant actually find it there.
[03:42] <Mithrandir> ogra: also, alternate cds building.
[03:42] <Mithrandir> janimo: alternate cds done.
[03:42] <jdong|coreduo> Hobbsee: yeah, I can see that... I wonder if NEW packages have to have something done
[03:42] <ogra> Mithrandir, livefses wont do no harm i guess ...
[03:42] <doko> bddebian: http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/core.shtml (or http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/extras.shtml ?). but the site seems to be currently down
[03:42] <jdong|coreduo> doko: fedora went down yesterday for upgrades
[03:42] <jdong|coreduo> I'm not sure if they're backup
[03:43] <Hobbsee> jdong|coreduo: that's the weird thing.  it's hit dapper-changes, and has built (!sparc).  p.u.c hasnt seen it yet, and it doesnt seem in the archives though
[03:43] <StevenK> It takes a day?!
[03:43] <StevenK> Do they run Gentoo or something?
[03:43] <jdong|coreduo> StevenK: hardware upgrades :P
[03:43] <Hobbsee> StevenK: they cant peddle fast enough :P
[03:43] <jdong|coreduo> changing colos or something
[03:43] <StevenK> Bwaha
[03:43] <jdong|coreduo> and fedora does get a TON of updates :P
[03:44] <jdong|coreduo> I think it's up to nearly 1GB in downloads from FC5's DVD to fedora-updates
[03:44] <StevenK> Right, changing colos I can believe, since BGP4 propagation is a bitch.
[03:44] <bddebian> doko: OK, thx
[03:44] <jdong|coreduo> Hobbsee: yeah, it's strange
[03:44] <jdong|coreduo> Hobbsee: could it be some kind of soyuz bug with new source packages?
[03:45] <Hobbsee> jdong|coreduo: ask someone who manages soyuz stuff.
[03:45] <doko> bddebian: I just did remove the bcprov stuff from the package (except the one changed class), then applied the FC patches; there are one or two new patches to use some gtk defaults from libgtk-java
[03:52] <Mithrandir> ogra: edubuntu alternate is finished
[03:54] <ogra> thaks !
[03:54] <ogra> +n
[03:55] <jdong|coreduo> would ya look at that... gentoo 2006.1 is out :)
[03:55] <janimo> Mithrandir: lives too, thanks
[03:55] <Mithrandir> janimo: will do once edubuntu livefs-es are done
[03:59] <ogra> RAAAHHH
[03:59] <ogra> why the heck did i gan only one meg with dropping the kernel headers and gcc
[04:00] <ogra> *gain
[04:00] <Mithrandir> ogra: still oversized?
[04:00] <ogra> that cant be
[04:00] <ogra> yes
[04:00] <Kamion> check .list files first
[04:00] <ogra> doing
[04:00] <ogra> (was looking at the logs already)
[04:01] <ogra> gah
[04:01] <ogra> i guess the seed mirroring is still delayed ... both are in there (gcc and linux-headers)
[04:04] <ogra> hmm, no the launchpad branch is up to date 
[04:05] <ogra> and edubuntu-meta 1.9 is on the iso ...
[04:05] <ogra> thats weird
[04:06] <mejde> Any work being done on getting the broadcom 43xx firmware included? I.e. is it even possible, what's the license, know of any talks going on between Canonical and Broadcom... etc... (sorry if this is off-topic)
[04:07] <ogra> mejde, no, its not possible, else we'd have shipped it in dapper already
[04:07] <ogra> Kamion, any idea ... i cant find a reason why the headers should end up on the CD ... all seems fine 
[04:08] <ogra> both seeds are up to date ... the metapackage is as well
[04:08] <mejde> ogra: I guess it's because of the license? How realistic do you think it is for Canonical/Ubuntu to persuade Broadcom to change the license?
[04:09] <zul> heh..
[04:09] <ogra> it was already asked and denied afaik 
[04:10] <jdong|coreduo> mejde: broadcom is not exactly happy about the bcm43xx driver
[04:10] <jdong|coreduo> it's just lucky there's no legal action arising from it yet ;)
[04:11] <ogra> ARGH
[04:12] <ogra> right, i suck ... or bzr does 
[04:12] <mejde> I don't get it... are they selling drivers or hardware... bah!
[04:12] <Hobbsee> ogra: of course bzr doesnt suck :P
[04:12] <ogra> Hobbsee, likely ...
[04:12] <Keybuk> WTF does S31umountnfs.sh call halt?!
[04:12] <ogra> looks like a human error
[04:12] <Hobbsee> ogra: must be a local problem.
[04:12] <Hobbsee> ogra: :P
[04:13] <thom> Keybuk: *boggle*
[04:13] <Keybuk> ah, to "write a wtmp record"
[04:13] <Keybuk> eww
[04:13] <jdong|coreduo> mejde: they sell pure evil
[04:13] <jdong|coreduo> mejde: and their hardware is pretty crappy too :P
[04:13] <Hobbsee> jdong|coreduo: surely they havent started selling cups!
[04:13] <otavio> Is Jonathan Riddell here?
[04:13] <Hobbsee> otavio: yeah, Riddell is around.  why?
[04:13] <Keybuk> as if anything has ever used the shutdown wtmp records
[04:13] <otavio> Hobbsee: which is his nickname?
[04:14] <Mithrandir> otavio: Riddell 
[04:14] <otavio> Mithrandir: thanks
[04:14] <Mithrandir> ogra: does that mean you need another livefs/alternate build?
[04:14] <ogra> it was an oversight from mdz  ... they stayed in ship but were moved from ship-live to desktop
[04:14] <ogra> Mithrandir, yes
[04:14] <Hobbsee> otavio: if it's kubuntu specific, ask in #kubuntu-devel
[04:14] <Hobbsee> if you like
[04:15] <seaLne> Kamion: 20060831.1 d-i still fails, did you change anything or will it not be till later?
[04:15] <Mithrandir> ogra: oh well, tell me when you need it, then
[04:15] <mejde> I wonder how Broadcom would feel about the installer automatically looking for the driver on a windows partition and extracting it from there
[04:15] <Mithrandir> Riddell: also, your live ISOs are served.
[04:15] <ogra> Mithrandir, i'll need you only for the livefs
[04:15] <z\> uhm hello
[04:15] <ogra> can do the alternate builds myself ...
[04:15] <Mithrandir> ogra: well, tell me anyway, and I hold the big cdimage lock for now, so it's easier if I build the ISOs too.
[04:16] <jdong|coreduo> mejde: I'm not sure using the broadcom firmware with bcm43xx is legal _in the first place_
[04:16] <Hobbsee> fabbione: are your logs working?  seem that we dont have the last few  days of #ubuntu-meeting logged
[04:16] <Mithrandir> now I need to go home for dinner and the distro meeting.
[04:16] <Hobbsee> fabbione: well, they seem blank
[04:16] <ogra> Mithrandir, oki
[04:16] <z\> someone have ubuntu in dualboot with some system (fulesystem FAT32) ?
[04:16] <z\> i found a big bug.
[04:17] <jdong|coreduo> a big bug.... oh boy
[04:17] <StevenK> z\: Dapper, yes
[04:17] <mejde> jdong|coreduo: too bad... for most users, without it working out of the box, it's like the driver didn't exist at all :(
[04:17] <z\> with it i can root all nox...
[04:17] <z\> uhm
[04:17] <Hobbsee> er, ubuntulog isnt in #ubuntu-meeting, thats' why.  who can fix that before the next meeting?
[04:17] <z\> so i talk in launchpad
[04:17] <jdong|coreduo> z\: I have ubuntu dual-booting with quite some different OS'es... what's wrong?
[04:17] <z\> now i go to work
[04:17] <z\> it's late
[04:18] <ogra> whats the bug ? 
[04:18] <jdong|coreduo> mejde: I know, it is too bad... but what can we do about it :-/
 with it i can root all nox...
[04:18] <jdong|coreduo> I think that? ^^
[04:18] <jdong|coreduo> is he talking about init=/bin/bash?
[04:18] <ogra> jdong|coreduo, thats the symptom
[04:18] <ogra> not the bug :)
[04:19] <jdong|coreduo> lol
[04:20] <jdong|coreduo> aah, lost my terminal
[04:20] <jdong|coreduo> where is it?
[04:20] <jdong|coreduo> note to self: don't set compiz tranparency to 0 for a window
[04:20] <jdong|coreduo> ha, there it is
[04:20] <mejde> jdong|coreduo: reverse engineer the firmware =)
[04:20] <jdong|coreduo> mejde: how about buy a better card than the bcm?
[04:20] <jdong|coreduo> lol
[04:21] <jdong|coreduo> Hobbsee: what kind of wifi card is it?
[04:22] <Hobbsee> jdong|coreduo: marvell 8335 card - it's supposed to be recognised OOTB - i was using ndiswrapper back when i was using it.
[04:23] <jdong|coreduo> Hobbsee: well, then you can rightfully blame it on him :P
[04:23] <Hobbsee> jdong|coreduo: hehe
[04:25] <jdong|coreduo> breakfast and medication time....
[04:25] <jdong|coreduo> I expect knot2 cd's posted and announced on distrowatch before I finish :)
[04:26] <Hobbsee> yay.  i need to fix an uninstallable package, once main freeze is lifted.
[04:27] <zul> and beg someone to upload it for you :)
[04:27] <Hobbsee> zul: long pointy sticks are useful.
[04:27] <Hobbsee> zul: true that, though.  
[04:27] <Hobbsee> zul: thanks for volunteering :)
[04:28] <zul> meh..
[04:28] <Hobbsee> zul: you know you want to :)
[04:28] <zul> yeah now..:)
[04:29] <Kamion> ogra: did you check http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-edgy/?
[04:29] <Kamion> seaLne: oh, the seed change probably hasn't been merged to kubuntu yet
[04:31] <Kamion> ogra: from the looks of things, the ship seed only got updated on http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-edgy/ 9 minutes ago
[04:34] <Riddell> Hobbsee: how else to scan for wireless networks?
[04:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: knetworkmanager
[04:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: unless it borks, of course.   *shrugs*
[04:34] <Riddell> Hobbsee: that is not installed by default
[04:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: why not?
[04:34] <Riddell> dunno, ask Keybuk :)
[04:35] <tseng> because it doesnt work reliably
[04:35] <Hobbsee> Riddell: same argument for knemo, too.
[04:35] <tseng> esp madwifi
[04:35] <Hobbsee> tseng: nothing does.
[04:35] <Hobbsee> tseng: madwifi seems to work okay here
[04:35] <tseng> Hobbsee: ok, it doesnt work reliably enough to meet our seal of approval
[04:35] <Hobbsee> tseng: but i see your point
[04:35] <Hobbsee> tseng: right :P
[04:35] <tseng> it does wonky things even on my intel card
[04:35] <tseng> as much as the novell guys will deny
[04:36] <Hobbsee> true.  it's got work to be done.
[04:38] <Zic_> sorry, I'm french, have you an idea of when the Knot 2 was on the mirrors ?
[04:38] <Hobbsee> Zic_: its' not yet?
[04:39] <Zic_> I don't know, but I can found it
[04:39] <Zic_> :s
[04:39] <tseng> when it is published it will be announced in the usual places
[04:41] <Riddell> seaLne, Kamion: kubuntu seeds merged to add lvm2, I guess we will need new alternate CDs for that
[04:41] <Kamion> Riddell: I wouldn't be inclined to rebuild just for that, but it can be in the next build if one's needed, maybe?
[04:41] <Zic_> the publication is supposed being planned for today, then I wait 
[04:45] <Zic_> I remain here, if you have information which arrives. I could make it go up with the French channel.
[04:45] <Kamion> Zic_: subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce@lists.ubuntu.com and you'll get the announcement
[04:45] <Zic_> thx
[04:45] <Zic_> a mail empty I suppose ?
[04:48] <dholbach> Zic_: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-announce
[04:48] <Zic_> thx ;)
[04:49] <dholbach> zul: still editing the wiki page?
[04:51] <zul> uh...no..
[04:51] <dholbach> ok cool
[04:51] <zul> i think i might have ghosted or someting
[04:51] <dholbach> the wiki said so, yeah
[04:51] <ogra> Kamion, right, i missed that it was in desktop *and* ship ... mdz only moved it from ship-live to desktop and left ship alone
[04:53] <seaLne> bah i'd quite like an alternate with lvm2 so i can install my machine :(
[04:56] <Kamion> BenC, fschoep, heno, kwwii, seb128: #ubuntu-meeting
[04:56] <Kamion> hmm, no fschoep or kwwii, I hope they'll remember
[04:56] <heno> Kamion: thanks, just writing my entry :)
[04:57] <dholbach> sfllaw too
[05:02] <Keybuk> I AM A GOD!
[05:02] <dholbach> you're exaggerating
[05:02] <Keybuk> and man, why is debugging so much easier after a full night's sleep?
[05:04] <thom> Keybuk: what has claused you to claim deity status?
[05:04] <Keybuk> thom: working shutdown process :p
[05:05] <thom> getting to a state that everyone else is in already raises you to normality, not godhood :P
[05:06] <tseng> thom: but he does it with flare
[05:06] <HiddenWolf> flair or flare? ;)
[05:08] <thom> flares
[05:08] <thom> corduroy ones
[05:16] <seb128> ogra: to reply to your question of before (you were not on IRC when I went back from lunch): yep, gnome-session sleep,hibernate should be fixed
[05:16] <ogra> seb128, i have a funny effect here, i use gartoon icons and if i alt-tab through my windows, evo shows the default icos until i release the alt key, then it switches back to gartoon :)
[05:19] (ogra/#ubuntu-devel) HiddenWolf, hughsie in #hal
[05:19] (ogra/#ubuntu-devel) and on the gnome-power.manager mailinglist
[05:19] <ogra> *gnome-power-manager
[05:20] <HiddenWolf> ogra: cheers
[05:26] <BenC> Keybuk: ping
[05:27] <Keybuk> BenC: heyho
[05:27] <BenC> Keybuk: hey, can you check and see why my upload of kexec-tools is not even sending me a reject/accept email?
[05:27] <BenC> I've tried twice
[05:28] <Keybuk> usually bad signature
[05:28] <ogra> or bad distro
[05:28] <BenC> $ file kexec-tools_1.101-2ubuntu1_source.changes
[05:28] <BenC> kexec-tools_1.101-2ubuntu1_source.changes: PGP armored data signed message
[05:29] <BenC> weird
[05:29] <BenC> distro is unstable
[05:29] <BenC> ok, that explains it
[05:29] <Keybuk> oh, well, that'd do it
[05:29] <Keybuk> LP isn't very good at reporting failures that escape the main loop
[05:29] <Keybuk> (ie. those that generate exceptions, rather than fail checks)
[05:30] <ogra> i remember it sent "bad distro" mails once in the beginning
[05:30] <ogra> but that might have stopped
[05:30] <ogra> or it sends them to the DD :P
[05:31] <Keybuk> it used to send them, as a python exception :p
[05:31] <ogra> heh
[05:31] <ogra> i once got a proper one ... but thats long ago ...
[05:55] <seb128> mvo_: maybe putting compiz to ship? ;)
[05:56] <seb128> mvo_: I think fedora is going with something like that for FC6, have a "enable graphical effects" sort of option which does "compiz --replace gconf"
[05:56] <mvo_> seb128: I'm only interessted in the transparency :)
[05:57] <seb128> mvo_: composite by default looks like edgy+1 material to me
[05:58] <ogra> eek ... by default ? 
[05:58] <mvo_> we already enable it in the X config
[05:58] <seb128> mvo_: composite manager by default I mean
[05:58] <mvo_> right
[05:59] <mvo_> I think for this we should have a easy option to turn it on. and maybe remove the worst plugins :)
[05:59] <mvo_> or a GUI that makes it easy to turn them on 
[05:59] <mvo_> something like this
[05:59] <mvo_> maybe in universe, but just to have something to show off with
[05:59] <mvo_> and transparent notifications :P
[05:59] <ogra> haha
[06:00] <ogra> the *important* stuff :P
[06:00] <shining> I'm alone to find compiz sucks?
[06:00] <seb128> mvo_: if you have a talk on composite, xorg; etc tomorrow please ping me, I'm interested too
[06:01] <mvo_> ogra: we could make hwbd-clients transparency more smooth then (who needs i18n anyway) :P
[06:01] <mvo_> seb128: and we could do the logout/gksu fadding proper
[06:01] <ogra> lets make it 99% transparent with 99% transparent fonts ...
[06:01] <mvo_> shining: but its so *shinny*
[06:02] <ogra> so people only see a ghost of hwdb ... and dont complain bout typos
[06:03] <shining> mvo_: don't you get bored after 5 min ?
[06:04] <ogra> mvo_, didnt you say youre an ion3 fan ? how bout having drop shadowns there :P
[06:04] <ogra> *shadows
[06:05] <mvo_> ogra!
[06:05] <ogra> :)
[06:05] <mvo_> ogra: more BLINK!
[06:05] <ogra> hehe
[06:05] <rodarvus> :)
[06:06] <rodarvus> mvo_, depends on what this tea is made of ;)
[06:06] <ogra> what about transparent usplash ?? you could see the console messages scrolling :)
[06:06] <HiddenWolf> ogra: guess my mother would like that. ;)
[06:06] <ogra> heh
[06:08] <mvo_> ogra: we just needs to add a X server to grub
[06:08] <ogra> Mithrandir, btw, you could trigger new edubuntu builds if you like
[06:08] <Mithrandir> ogra: will do.
[06:08] <ogra> if the live iso is oversized i dont care if edubuntu releases install-only for knot2
[06:09] <ogra> (as long as i get these in shape)
[06:10] <Mithrandir> ogra: you need full rebuilds of livefs+live image + alternate, right?
[06:10] <ogra> yep
[06:11] <ogra> but i doubt the live iso will be below 700
[06:16] <Kamion> mvo_: I've given feedback on bug 58207
[06:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58207 in ubuntu-cdimage "Please add the dist-upgrader on the CD" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58207
[06:16] <Mithrandir> ogra: ok, doing both now.
[06:17] <Kamion> mvo_: ... and updated said feedback, whoops
[06:18] <wasabi_> Anybody have an info about where the current multiarch approach stands?
[06:18] <ogra> Mithrandir, ok ... i'm afk for 30-45min (shopping some food)
[06:18] <wasabi_> I remember, back in the day, reading about an approach that introduced /lib/linux-686/libs.so, type paths. And liking it.
[06:19] <Mithrandir> ogra: if I'm not around when you get back and the livefs is done, feel free to start the liveiso build; I need to go help my mum with gimp. :-P
[06:20] <slomo> doko: i guess i'll drop this with the next upload then, ok?
[06:20] <doko> slomo: sure
[06:20] <mvo_> Kamion: thanks
[06:29] <slomo> doko: it tried to rebuild the docs because you have some changes in the docs directory btw
[06:30] <doko> slomo: hmm, which changes? I didn't change anything with intent
[06:31] <slomo> doko: looks like only changes in the generated docs... no idea how you got them but i'll clean the diff next upload :)
[06:55] <robertj> is knot 2 going to make a showing today?
[06:55] <Simira> probably (k)not
[06:56] <robertj> is there (k)nothing that will speed that up?
[06:56] <Burgwork> robertj, being quiet ;)
[06:56] <Simira> rumor says that less last-minute updates would
[06:57] <Burgwork> Simira, you live the man building it, so you should have a pretty good idea of what is happening
[06:58] <Mez> mdz / keybuk / kamion ping
[06:58] <Simira> Burgwork: as I said, less last minute updates. I think it's on the doorstep, though.
[06:58] <doko> Kamion: is it safe for /usr/sbin/elilo to use /bin/bash instead of /bin/sh ?
[07:29] <Keybuk> zyga: yes
[07:30] <zyga> Keybuk: hi, it's good to see you
[07:31] <Keybuk> zyga: delayed answer to your question last night, there :p
[07:31] <zyga> Keybuk: I still need to read the source but seeing this as an opportunity to improve i18n I wanted to ask you about upstart and possible i18n?
[07:31] <Keybuk> zyga: yup
[07:31] <zyga> BTW: libnih is a really cool thing
[07:32] <Keybuk> *shrug* it's just a cut-price equivalent of glib, etc.
[07:32] <_ion> Indeed.
[07:32] <Keybuk> on i18n, in theory upstart is fully i18nised
[07:32] <zyga> do you think that upstart can be fully i18n?
[07:32] <zyga> Keybuk: (IMO it's cleaner than glib, but YMMV)
[07:32] <Keybuk> the principal problem is just deciding where the translations should go
[07:33] <Keybuk> I thought about putting them in /lib/locale or something
[07:33] <zyga> Keybuk: right, since it's an init system I was thinking about some special place
[07:33] <Keybuk> also making sure that the right LANG, etc. is picked up
[07:33] <zyga> Keybuk: the LANG is sys global, right?
[07:33] <Keybuk> it's supposed to be, yes
[07:34] <Keybuk> however it's currently stored in a file only read by PAM, which is only used for login processes
[07:34] <zyga> I was a bit worried about unbound memory problems that could go with gettext
[07:35] <Keybuk> how do you mean?
[07:36] <zyga> well gettext doesn't really free memory and upstart really needs to run forever
[07:36] <zyga> that and fragmentation can turn to trouble
[07:36] <Keybuk> really? that's kinda sucky
[07:37] <zyga> Keybuk: well gettext doesn't really know when you are done using the translated string
[07:37] <_ion> Do you mean LC_MESSAGES instead of LANG?
[07:37] <zyga> once it's loaded it's always loaded
[07:37] <Keybuk> if you use the same string again, does it allocate a new copy, or just use the existing one?
[07:37] <zyga> _ion: I don't really understand?
[07:38] <zyga> Keybuk: oh, no it gives you the same string
[07:38] <zyga> it's just never-free == keep the page forever kind of approach
[07:39] <Keybuk> zyga: that's not that bad, it's just a string overhead
[07:39] <zyga> Keybuk: but since upstart will always use one language
[07:39] <zyga> right
[07:40] <Keybuk> unless you tell it to re-exec itself, which solves the problem anyway
[07:40] <zyga> Keybuk: that brings me to a separate issue, of translating init.d/* scripts, that's not really easy to do, right?
[07:40] <Keybuk> zyga: no, translating init.d/* scripts is hard
[07:40] <zyga> Keybuk: hmm, do you re-exec?
[07:40] <Keybuk> zyga: you can tell upstart to re-exec
[07:41] <Riddell> Mithrandir: current kubuntu desktop and alternate CDs are good for release
[07:41] <zyga> really cool stuff to remember :)
[07:41] <Keybuk> how do you mean?
[07:41] <Keybuk> it can re-exec itself because you upgrade it
[07:42] <zyga> Keybuk: I never thought of re-execing the a daemon like that :)
[07:42] <zyga> it's a good thing
[07:42] <Keybuk> you obviously want the daemon to stay running, just become the newer version
[07:42] <Keybuk> so it execs itself, and passes all of its state to the new process with an agreed protocol
[07:42] <zyga> Keybuk: I'll look at some RH-based distros, especially some localized ones - they somehow translate init.d messages but I doubt thats anything generic :/
[07:42] <Keybuk> zyga: they probably call gettext in their LSB equivalents
[07:43] <rodarvus> Keybuk, yes, this is what they do
[07:44] <zyga> but what if /usr is not available when that stuff gets called?
[07:44] <zyga> (I obviously know what happens, it's a rethorical question)
[07:48] <rodarvus> zyga, gettext lies in /bin (or used to) on RH and Conectiva
[07:50] <Keybuk> rodarvus: where do they put the .mo files though?
[07:50] <Keybuk> and how do they seed LANG?
[07:51] <rodarvus> if memory doesn't fails me, it was a rather huge hack
[07:51] <rodarvus> I think adding the translation to the init.d script itself
[07:51] <zyga> rodarvus: hmm, that sounds familiar
[07:52] <rodarvus> Keybuk, don't remember how LANG was seeded, though
[07:58] <cbx33> ping seb128 
[08:04] <shining> what's happening with apt/dpkg ? I see a new thing: "Reading state information"
[08:05] <shining> is this related to the auto-remove feature?
[08:05] <shining> why are some operations in aptitude or synaptic painfully slow?
[08:10] <slomo> Keybuk: oh? will we get upstart already for knot2? :)
[08:11] <robertj> upstart would be a (k)noteworthy adition
[08:12] <jdong> wow, have the knot2 puns spread to #ubuntu-devel?
[08:12] <jdong> intend*
[08:13] <Nafallo> hmm, is it a bug in the udev source that it makes two binaries that calls update-initramfs? :-)
[08:13] <Burgwork> robertj, and a fairly major chnage. Lets get knot2 out the door and then start breaking things
[08:15] <robertj> Burgwork: I was actually just trolling for a pun :)
[08:15] <jdong> well, I guess #ubuntu-devel is knot2 quick on catching puns....
[08:16] <jdong> robertj: come to #kubuntu-devel.... I've already annoyed the living daylights out of everyone with knot2 puns
[08:16] <Burgwork> oh god
[08:16] <robertj> jdong: well you already have a collection k-related puns already I'm sure
[08:17] <jdong> :)
[08:17] <robertj> it's amateur hour here :)
[08:17] <zyga> rodarvus: but the message catalogs do not
[08:17] <slomo> Burgwork: scott's latest uploads are somewhat suggesting that it might happen ;)
[08:18] <Burgwork> slomo, *grumble*. Means I need to add a section to the Knot2 page
[08:18] <Keybuk> slomo: no, the plan isn't to have it for knot 2, but for knot 3
[08:18] <slomo> Keybuk: ok :)
[08:23] <seaLne> Kamion: just to let you know that kubuntu alternate 20060831.2 seems to be installing fine on lvm
[08:23] <seaLne> jdong: ^
[08:24] <jdong> excellent
[08:24] <jdong> thanks seaLne
[08:26] <sladen> Keybuk: I do think that before upstart gets too much out the door, it should have the magic "#!/bin/echo this file format is going to change"  or similar
[08:27] <Keybuk> sladen: why would that help?
[08:27] <Keybuk> that implies the job files would be executable
[08:27] <Keybuk> which they absolutely would notbe
[08:28] <sladen> Keybuk: remove the '!' then.  As discussed in Wiesbaden, the point would be to make people realise that the format is not finalised and not to implement custom job files using it, yet
[08:29] <ogra> argh
[08:39] <seb128> cbx33: pong
[08:40] <cbx33> seb128, I believe you are the person to talk to if I wanted to make a change to the /etc/gconf/2/path file shipped with ubuntu
[08:40] <cbx33> I'm working on a patch for pessulus with vuntz
[08:40] <seb128> cbx33: right
[08:40] <cbx33> so that it has the capability to edit another users key
[08:41] <seb128> cbx33: we already changed it for sabayon, can't you use the same hierarchie?
[08:41] <cbx33> current users don't have mandatory keys themself
[08:41] <cbx33> well, according to vuntz, I'm no gconf expert, it is setup for profiles
[08:41] <cbx33> where as we want actual user mandatory keys
[08:41] <cbx33> he was suggesting something like
[08:42] <cbx33> hang....
[08:42] <cbx33> xml:readonly:/var/lib/gconf/$(USER)/gconf.xml.mandatory
[08:42] <cbx33> so we can lockdown each user individually
[08:43] <seb128> does "$(USER)" work?
[08:43] <cbx33> i don't know ;)
[08:43] <cbx33> vuntz, suggested it
[08:43] <seb128> vuntz: ping?
[08:44] <cbx33> I can try it in my hacking up pessulus
[08:44] <seb128> cbx33: I don't think I like the idea
[08:44] <cbx33> ok
[08:44] <seb128> cbx33: too much directories to that list
[08:44] <cbx33> I'll try and do it the sabayon way
[08:44] <seb128> cbx33: and I don't think an user should be modifying mandatority for somebody else out of the admin user
[08:44] <cbx33> i was asking as vuntz suggested I ask you
[08:45] <cbx33> seb128, it would be an admin modifying them
[08:45] <cbx33> it's for edubuntu
[08:45] <cbx33> the Student Control Panel
[08:45] <seb128> ah, admin modifying it for some user or group of user?
[08:45] <cbx33> yes
[08:46] <cbx33> seb128, you didn't think I meant just willy nilly editing of other users stuff did you?
[08:46] <seb128> I did
[08:46] <seb128> your description was not clear
[08:46] <cbx33> sorry seaLne 
[08:46] <cbx33> sorry seb128 
[08:46] <seb128> " so that it has the capability to edit another users key"
[08:46] <vuntz> seb128: $(USER) should work
[08:47] <seb128> vuntz: should or does? ;)
[08:47] <vuntz> seb128: does, according to the gconf webpage :-)
[08:47] <seb128> ok
[08:47] <cbx33> hehe
[08:47] <seb128> cbx33: that's only one extra path to the list, I'm fine with it
[08:47] <vuntz> seb128: you didn't expect me to try, did you? ;-)
[08:47] <seb128> vuntz: not really, no :p
[08:48] <vuntz> seb128: could be /var/lib/gconf/users/$(USER)/gconf.xml.mandatory to not make /var/lib/gconf/ too filled
[08:49] <seb128> yeah, I like that option better
[08:52] <cbx33> seb128, so I can add that to my file for now and we can get it added in the repos later?
[08:52] <seb128> cbx33: yeah, please open a bug on gconf2 for it
[08:52] <cbx33> will do
[08:52] <seb128> bug on launchpad I mean
[08:52] <seb128> not upstream ;)
[08:52] <cbx33> yeh
[08:53] <cbx33> no no
[09:09] <jdong> what's the status on knot2?
[09:10] <Simira> when it's ready!!!
[09:10] <zul> holy crap you asked like 2 hours ago
[09:11] <jdong> sorry sorry
[09:11] <jdong> and I wasn't the one who asked
[09:23] <LaserJock> anybody know current policy for rebuilds?
[09:24] <bddebian> Has it changed?
[09:24] <slomo> LaserJock: policy for rebuilds?
[09:24] <LaserJock> like, are we supposed to do ubuntuXbuild1?
[09:24] <LaserJock> or just ubuntu(X+1)
[09:25] <slomo> i still do -Xbuild1 or -Xubuntu(Y+1)
[09:25] <slomo> depending on whether there are ubuntu changes already or not
[09:25] <LaserJock> ah
[09:27] <bddebian> AYe, me too
[09:28] <dholbach> Mithrandir: I'm a moron - I just uploaded bzr and bzrtools on jbailey's request (without thinking). They're not pulled in by the seeds, but are in main. -- Shouldn't mess up the Knot-2 plans, should it?
[09:28] <LaserJock> tsk tsk ;-)
[09:29] <slomo> dholbach: oh, new bzr :)
[09:30] <dholbach> bzr will build-depend on python-paramiko (source is in main already), it'd be nice if that'd get promoted
[09:34] <Keybuk> dholbach: err, isn't launchpad frozen to prevent that?
[09:34] <dholbach> ah, even better, then
[09:34] <Keybuk> I hope so :)
[09:34] <Keybuk> because I uploaded a few main things earlier
[09:34] <Keybuk> like, err, sysvinit
[09:34] <zyga> how large is the *entire* edgy at archive.ubuntu.com?
[09:34] <dholbach> they were accepted
[09:35] <dholbach> and showed up on edgy-changes
[09:35] <zyga> (with *all* less popular arches?)
[09:35] <Keybuk> I assumed that if they went through, the knot freeze was over
[09:35] <Keybuk> since Tollef hasn't actually announced it anywhere
[09:35] <Kamion> er
[09:35] <Kamion> we tried to set the distro to frozen
[09:35] <Nafallo> he said something about his mum and gimp and left :-)
[09:35] <Kamion> but soyuz broke
[09:36] <Kamion> please don't upload until Tollef actually announces
[09:36] <Keybuk> oh
[09:36] <Keybuk> bit late now :p
[09:36] <Kamion> announced> see /topic
[09:36] <Keybuk> Kamion: topic != announce
[09:37] <bddebian> heh
[09:37] <Nafallo> hmm updates for sysvinit and friends landed on my PC :-)
[09:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: yes, but it's thre
[09:37] <Kamion> there
[09:37] <LaserJock> mhm, I just updated my pbuilder and saw it go by
[09:37] <Keybuk> Kamion: something to fix in the policy for next time then ... teach Tollef how to use his e-mail client
[09:38] <Kamion> let's hope we don't need to update debian-installer for knot-2
[09:38] <Kamion> because the udev change means I'll have to upload cdrom-detect and iso-scan
[09:38] <Keybuk> heh
[09:38] <Kamion> I was expecting you not to do that until tomorrow :)
[09:38] <Keybuk> oh, why?
[09:39] <Keybuk> I tend to do things as soon I get bugs about them :p
[09:39] <Kamion> because I said "after knot-2 is announced"
[09:39] <Keybuk> and at that point, I'd completely forgotten about the freez
[09:39] <Keybuk> Kamion: actually, you didn't say that at all
[09:39] <Nafallo> we all now Keybuk is eager to break boxes, might aswell be knot-2 as knot-3 ;-)
[09:40] <Kamion> Keybuk: didn't I?
[09:40] <Keybuk> Nafallo: aye, trying to get everything in place before I go on holiday
[09:40] <Keybuk> Kamion: no
[09:40] <Kamion> Keybuk: oh. I thought it :P
[09:40] <Kamion> Keybuk: you don't have telepathy installed
[09:40] <Keybuk> Kamion: I do, actually
[09:41] <LaserJock> yep, apparently we need esp.launchpad.net
[09:41] <Kamion> or else I have no brain and am therefore not susceptible to telepathy
[09:41] <Keybuk> anyway yes, I completely forgot about the freeze, and uploaded stuff to main
[09:41] <slomo> Kamion: have fun :)
[09:41] <Keybuk> and then I read an e-mail from tollef saying he'd got infinity to set it to frozen anyway, so I thought "phew, I can do the complicated uploads I had planned today and just have them go through once it's un-frozen"
[09:41] <Keybuk> so double-bad-me
[09:41] <jdub> ahr, but no upstart yet
[09:41] <Nafallo> Keybuk: atleast you where not the only one forgetting about the freeze ;-)
[09:42] <Nafallo> jdub: universe :-)
[09:42] <Nafallo> Keybuk: you might fix that shutdown-bug you where so happy about hours ago with an upload? :-)
[09:42] <Keybuk> Nafallo: as jdub's very astutely guessing, the series of uploads so far have been to make it possible for a future upstart upload to be installed *instead of* sysvinit
[09:43] <Nafallo> Keybuk: yea, I know. I'm happy for that change anytime now :-)
[09:43] <Keybuk> Nafallo: assuming this debootstrap works, and installs sysvutils, it'll be in about 3-5 hours
[09:44] <Nafallo> nice :-)
[09:44] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk: break the world, then go on holiday? ;)
[09:44] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: it'll still be in universe
[09:45] <Keybuk> I'll file the MIR so that it can get promoted while I'm away
[09:45] <Nafallo> hehe
[09:45] <dholbach> Mithrandir: uploaded another bzrtools which fixes a broken build-depends
[09:45] <Keybuk> I'm only away mon/tues, and not away out of reach of a computer, just celebrating other-half's birthday
[09:45] <dholbach> Mithrandir: I hope you don't hate me too much for it.
[09:45] <Nafallo> Keybuk: someone should have your phonenumber is something goes berserk ;-)
[09:45] <LaserJock> HiddenWolf: heh, I find that humorous, breaking the Universe is much better than breaking the world
[09:45] <Keybuk> Nafallo: most people do
[09:46] <Keybuk> SIP/scott@netsplit.com
[09:46] <Keybuk> :p
[09:46] <Nafallo> :-)
[09:46] <HiddenWolf> LaserJock: :D
[09:46] <Nafallo> LaserJock: ROTFL!
[09:50] <zyga_> dholbach: I've got a gaim backtrace for you
[09:50] <Keybuk> not for the first time it occurs that it would be far more efficient to do milestone releases from a copy of the archive, instead of freezing the real one
[09:50] <dholbach> zyga_: gonna attach it on the bug?
[09:50] <dholbach> zyga_: did you have a look at the upstream bug it points to?
[09:51] <zyga_> yes, just a sec
[09:51] <zyga_> no, I didn't
[09:51] <zyga_> I'll do in a sec
[09:54] <zyga_> dholbach: backtrace attached
[09:54] <dholbach> super, thanks
[09:54] <zyga_> I also explained how to reproduce it
[09:54] <shining> hey, right, freezing doesn't make much sense for a test release, does it?
[09:55] <zyga_> it's really 100% reproducible
[09:55] <LaserJock> shining: sure it does, we want the test release to be installable, right?
[09:56] <zyga_> a11y is really important 
[09:56] <shining> well, I guess so
[09:56] <Keybuk> . o O { now, I wonder what happens if I make sysvinit no longer Essential ... }
[09:56] <LaserJock> mwuahahaha
[09:56] <Keybuk> we'll find out in 7 minutes
[09:57] <jdub> so what's with this python-gdbm / python-2.5 stuff?
[09:58] <Mithrandir> Riddell: yay, thanks.
[09:58] <Mithrandir> ogra: how are you, release-wise?
[10:02] <doko> Mithrandir: alternate amd64 CD is ok, although the ati driver isn't capable of doing 1920x1200
[10:03] <Mithrandir> doko: thanks.
[10:04] <doko> infinity: fglrx still sucks. X cannot be shutdown without freezing the kernel
[10:04] <doko> (amd64)
[10:05] <doko> hmm, is hdparm supposed to work on amd64?
[10:06] <doko> $ sudo hdparm -B 128 /dev/sda
[10:06] <doko> /dev/sda:
[10:06] <doko>  setting Advanced Power Management level to 0x80 (128)
[10:06] <doko>  HDIO_DRIVE_CMD failed: Input/output error
[10:06] <Mithrandir> yes, it should
[10:06] <Keybuk> doko: err
[10:06] <Keybuk> HDparm
[10:06] <Keybuk> SDa
[10:06] <Keybuk> :p
[10:07] <jdub> hdparm is supposed to work with libata now though, innit?
[10:07] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: yes, and?
[10:07] <Keybuk> jdong_: no?
[10:07] <Keybuk> jdub: no?
[10:07] <Keybuk> sdparm does
[10:07] <jdub> doko: python-gdbm / python-2.5
[10:07] <jdub> doko: are we moving to python-2.5? :)
[10:07] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: sdparm works with sd*, hdparm works with hd*
[10:08] <dholbach> jdub: not for edgy
[10:08] <Keybuk> hdparm on a sd* won't do much
[10:08] <doko> jdub: yes, but not as the default. python-gdbm is a bug
[10:08] <jdub> doko: ahr, okay - thanks
[10:09] <doko> Keybuk: so we should seed sdparm, and not hdparm?
[10:09] <Nafallo> sdparm is still in universe :-P
[10:09] <Keybuk> there's not much call for sdparm ... chances are if your drive is showing up that way, the controller got the settings right
[10:14] <doko> Keybuk: any hint how to get/set the acoustic management?
[10:15] <Keybuk> doko: no idea, I'm afraid; including if you even can
[10:15] <HiddenWolf> doko: virgin, goat, sharp knife, full moon?
[10:16] <HiddenWolf> If you ever figure it out, please put it on the wiki. :)
[10:16] <bddebian> heh
[10:16] <jdong_> doko: some drives don't support acoustic management
[10:16] <jdong_> and that's the kind of error you get back when you try to use it
[10:17] <jdong_> and hdparm appears to work just fine on my SATA laptop hd... :-/
[10:17] <Keybuk> jdong_: yeah, it works on some of the drivers
[10:17] <jdong_> (intel centrino duo chipset, ich8 i believe)
[10:17] <Keybuk> depends whether they implemented the legacy ioctls
[10:17] <jdub> Mithrandir: did you do the latest vmware-player update?
[10:18] <jdong_> Keybuk: ah, I see
[10:20] <bddebian> Shit, doko, I'm sorry, do you still have that URL for azureus handy?
[10:23] <doko> bddebian: cvs.fedora.redhat.com
[10:24] <bddebian> doko: thx.
[10:26] <slomo> doko: installing python2.3 breaks atm because of python-central... known problem?
[10:27] <jdub> lca2007.linux.org.au/cfp
[10:27] <jdub> ^ haven't seen much from you slackers
[10:28] <Mithrandir> jdub: no, should I?
[10:29] <Keybuk> jdub: it's expensive to get there
[10:29] <Keybuk> throw in the flights and hotel, and I'll come :p
[10:30] <jdub> Keybuk: what do you think the "i need travel assistance" checkbox is for?
[10:31] <Keybuk> jdub: last time I was offered 25% of the flight because I was "too far away to be considered"
[10:31] <Nafallo> get a wheelchair and a jdub to drive you? :-)
[10:31] <jdub> Keybuk: can't sponsor flights from uranus
[10:31] <bddebian> hahah
[10:31] <Keybuk> if my anus could pay for the flight, I'd come :p
[10:31] <jdub> Nafallo: insurance doesn't cover me at the wheel
[10:31] <Treenaks> hm... Dave Airlie just committed a potential fix for a _long_standing Ati bug.. does anyone have an idea how I could test it?
[10:31] <jdub> Keybuk: can be arranged. accom in kings cross.
[10:31] <Treenaks> (as I'm suffering from the bug..)
[10:32] <zyga> Treenaks: what is that bug?
[10:32] <Treenaks> zyga: the 'no output, fixed by MonitorLayout' one
[10:32] <zyga> hmm, if I can help you with testing that feel free to ask
[10:33] <Treenaks> zyga: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5473 + http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/driver/xf86-video-ati.git;a=commit;h=caaed927a07ffbac68b08246185ef93c1e7bb98c
[10:33] <Ubugtu> Freedesktop bug 5473 in Driver/Radeon "Blank screen with Radeon Mobility X700 (Acer Ferrari 4005)" [Normal,Reopened]  
[10:33] <Treenaks> patch is 5 minutes old ;
[10:33] <Treenaks> )
[10:33] <zyga> that's one fresh patch :D
[10:34] <Keybuk> jdub: ok, proposal submitted :p
[10:34] <Treenaks> zyga: I was just checking freedesktop gitweb, to see if anything had been committed recently :)
[10:35] <jdub> Keybuk: as a personal prompt, i'd imagine a talk about upstart would be worthwhile in that timeframe
[10:35] <zyga> Treenaks: boy, radeon code sure looks ugly
[10:35] <Keybuk> jdub: oddly enough, that's exactly what I just proposed :p
[10:35] <Nafallo> haha
[10:35] <Treenaks> and if I understand it correctly, it might ALSO fix my 'wobbly image' bug
[10:35] <jdub> Keybuk: cool
[10:35] <Nafallo> Keybuk has telepathy :-)
[10:36] <Treenaks> nah, the Gnome people can talk about Telepathy :P
[10:36] <jdub> Keybuk: besides, you can tell canonical it's important for you to go
[10:36] <Nafallo> ...because jdub said so :-)
[10:36] <Keybuk> jdub: that only gives me the paid leave
[10:37] <Keybuk> we still have to pay our own way to get and stay there, remember
[10:37] <Treenaks> Keybuk: 'a temporary raise', you mean? :P
[10:38] <jdub> Keybuk: not if it's important for you to go
[10:44] <sistpoty> hi
[10:44] <sistpoty> can any core-dev give me an ack for bug 58046 please?
[10:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58046 in sdl-image1.2 "please sync sdl-image1.2 [main]  (1.2.5-2) from unstable" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58046
[11:04] <dholbach> good night everybody!
[11:04] <madduck> Keybuk: lftp rocks :) thanks!
[11:05] <sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
[11:06] <dholbach> night sistpoty, night seb128
[11:06] <seb128> 'night dholbach
[11:08] <dholbach> hey robtaylor! :-)
[11:10] <bddebian> Oh man it's a -devel love-in.. :)
[11:10] <sfllaw> Woah.  I walked in at an awkward time.
[11:11] <sfllaw> Aw what the hell.
[11:12] <Keybuk> upstart so needs a logo
[11:13] <jdub> Keybuk: freckly, rosy-cheeked kid with a tushy face
[11:16] <HiddenWolf> +1
[11:19] <Treenaks> jdub: http://msig.info/web2v2/(reflect)Upstart%202.0%20BETA.png
[11:19] <sfllaw> Treenaks: That's very flickr-esque.
[11:19] <jdub> heh
[11:20] <jdub> Treenaks: i hate that site.
[11:20] <Treenaks> sfllaw: it's also dynamically generated   the URL :)
[11:20] <theCore> Keybuk, oh hello, I was just going to fill a bug in upstart
[11:20] <Treenaks> +from
[11:20] <jdub> Treenaks: i've had four separate logo suggestions for four separate projects from it. ;)
[11:21] <Treenaks> jdub: then it MUST be cool!  :P
[11:21] <theCore> Keybuk, I'm not sure if it's related to upstart directly 
[11:50] <gnomefreak> LaserJock: ping