[12:11] <nixternal> i have a mad penguin on my desktop
[12:16] <crimsun> that's all on 8x6?
[12:17] <nixternal> ey
[12:18] <xt> hello! My edgy eft installation is stopping with partman running in eternal loops
[12:19] <Riddell> xt: bug reports to launchpad.net, attach /var/log/installer/* if you can
[12:19] <xt> alright
[12:21] <shining> nixternal: no wonder why he's mad 
[12:21] <nixternal> hehe
[12:21] <nixternal> ya, puting on win2k
[12:21] <nixternal> im not about to purchase cedega to do this stupid office 2003 junk for school
[12:22] <shining> wine doesn't do that? why can't you use openoffice?
[12:22] <shining> cedega is only for games
[12:22] <nixternal> wine won't run office 2003...and openoffice sucks for documentation..plus this course specifically requires .doc files
[12:22] <nixternal> arg
[12:22] <nixternal> crossover office i meant
[12:22] <nixternal> sorry
[12:22] <shining> yep
[12:23] <shining> oo should support doc fine
[12:23] <nixternal> it supports it, but can't format it
[12:23] <nixternal> i did my resume in OOo, and everyone is like, dude are you retarded
[12:23] <nixternal> it looks horrid when you open it in winderz
[12:23] <nixternal> or office rather
[12:24] <shining> odd
[12:30] <jdong> Riddell: can't backport ubuntu2 until that soyuz bug is resolved
[12:33] <Riddell> humph
[01:03] <jdong> my god is utorrent aggressive
[01:03] <jdong> or it might just be ktorrent misbehaving
[01:03] <jdong> I'm currently seeding the kubuntu/ubuntu knot2 cd's
[01:04] <jdong> and I'm getting around 10 connect requests a second
[01:04] <jdong> majority of whom are utorrent users
[01:04] <jdong> ignoring the statistical fallacy, I conclude that utorrent is being a bitch to my router
[01:10] <jdong> because mailing lists suck^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
[01:13] <Riddell> ryanakca: what's the problem?
[01:17] <danimo> heya!
[01:22] <Riddell> danimo!
[01:24] <ryanakca> Riddell: I registered, and the first time I got an e-mail saying to click on such and such a link to activate my subscription, but then I realised I hadn't been paying attention and had typed in my old email, so I go  to change my e-mail to my new one... nothing happens... So I hit unsubscribe and I go to register with my new e-mail.. but I don't get a confirmation/activation e-mail like I did the first time
[01:25] <Riddell> ryanakca: what email do you want subscribed?
[01:26] <ryanakca> Riddell: ryanakca+ubuntu @ gmail . com , please and thank-you :)
[01:27] <gnomefreak> forgot about that trick
[01:27] <gnomefreak> ryanakca: cheater
[01:30] <ryanakca> gnomefreak: lol
[01:31] <Riddell> ryanakca: subscribed
[01:40] <nixternal> Riddell: did you createa custom spam filter at all for the kubuntu-devel mailing list?
[01:41] <nixternal> my list got its first piece of spam come through today
[01:44] <ryanakca> Riddell: thanks
[01:45] <Riddell> nixternal: no, it uses spamassassin
[01:46] <ryanakca> Riddell: I figured out the problem... gmail's filters :)
[01:46] <Riddell> nixternal: it's also set to reject posts unless from a subscribed address
[01:46] <ryanakca> that's why I wasn't getting it
[01:59] <nixternal> heh...i was like wth, k-lined ;)
[02:00] <nixternal> tis why i grabbed your info and added you to jabber ;)
[02:00] <apachelogger> lol
[02:02] <nixternal> Riddell: in KHelpCenter right..there is a KDE Online page right that lists all the contact stuff for KDE...I was thinking of doing the same for Kubuntu if you were interested...there isn't a single doc that lists everything online for Kubuntu
[02:03] <nixternal> "KDE on the Web" is what I was referring to
[02:03] <nixternal> maybe add that info to the "About Kubuntu" docs
[02:03] <apachelogger> ah
[02:03] <apachelogger> right
[02:03] <apachelogger> out of date link
[02:03] <nixternal> hehe
[02:04] <nixternal> if you find broken links in any of the Kubuntu docs or what not, bug it, and then poke me
[02:04] <nixternal> right now..all edgy docs are "dapper" docs..so thsoe don't count
[02:04] <Riddell> nixternal: sure
[02:04] <nixternal> kool. i will work something into it
[02:05] <nixternal> g'nite
[03:29] <jdong> has the magic of hal/dbus broke for anyone else?
[03:29] <jdong> I get all kinds of rejected messages from dbus
[03:29] <jdong> i.e. networkmanager, hotpluggable devices, etc
[03:29] <jdong> A security policy in place prevents this sender from sending this message to this recipient, see message bus configuration file (rejected message had interface "org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.Volume" member "Mount" error name "(unset)" destination "org.freedesktop.Hal")
[03:29] <jdong> ^^ that's from mounting a usb stick
[03:43] <jdong> heh, looks like I'm suffering bug 58165
[03:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58165 in hal "security policy error with hald after latest updates" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58165
[06:58] <LaserJock> is /usr/share/applications/kde/ the prefered place to put .desktop files?
[07:01] <crimsun> seems reasonable.
[07:08] <imbrandon> yea afaik
[07:09] <LaserJock> interesting, I wouldn't have thought there would be much conflict
[07:09] <LaserJock> although perhaps gksudo vs. kdesu
[07:16] <Jucato> imbrandon: cute pic of your "little buddy". heheh! Have a great weekend, too!
[07:35] <Hobbsee> hey all
[07:35] <Hobbsee> ...when's the meeting again?
[07:35] <Hobbsee> oh good, not during a medical appointment
[07:43] <imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
[07:44] <Hobbsee> hey imbrandon 
[07:45] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
[07:46] <Hobbsee> hey LaserJock 
[07:46] <Hobbsee> crimsun: fixmysound, kthnksbye!
[07:47] <imbrandon> lol
[07:47] <imbrandon> drive-by bugreport ?
[07:53] <crimsun> Hobbsee: ?
[07:54] <Hobbsee> crimsun: my sound's still strangely pitched, sometimes scrambled.
[07:54] <Hobbsee> crimsun: what's the best way to figure out what the problem is?
[07:54] <nixternal> hiya Hobbsee ;)
[07:55] <Hobbsee> hey nixternal 
[07:56] <crimsun> Hobbsee: all sound?
[07:56] <Hobbsee> crimsun: yep
[07:56] <crimsun> which driver?
[07:56] <Hobbsee> crimsun: 
[07:56] <Hobbsee> sarah@sarah:~$ cat /proc/asound/modules
[07:56] <Hobbsee>  0 snd_intel8x0
[07:57] <crimsun> Hobbsee: is it reproducible if you use the plughw:0 device (you'll lose dmix, or pcm multiplexing that allows you to play multiple sounds concurrently)
[07:58] <Hobbsee> crimsun: not sure, how do i do that?
[07:58] <crimsun> Hobbsee: normally the alsa-aware apps have a configuration for the device. You can try with aplay: aplay -Dplughw:0 /usr/share/sounds/KDE*up.wav
[07:58] <Hobbsee> whee!  scrambled sound!  it fixes itself for a few seconds, and then scrambles or changes pitch again.
[07:59] <crimsun> also, is this 6.06.1 or 6.10?
[07:59] <Hobbsee> aplay: main:547: audio open error: Device or resource busy
[07:59] <Hobbsee> it's edgy
[07:59] <Hobbsee> i had the same problem in dapper though.  after one reinstall
[07:59] <crimsun> I'm not actively tracking edgy; nearly all my support time is spent on dapper, with the patches feeding into edgy secondary
[08:00] <Hobbsee> crimsun: ah okay
[08:00] <crimsun> kill `lsof -t /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*`
[08:01] <Hobbsee> gotcha.
[08:01] <crimsun> then try the aplay command again
[08:01] <Hobbsee> it's working now, but i cant tell you if it will stay working
[08:01] <crimsun> try changing it for all the alsa-aware apps as a test
[08:02] <crimsun> e.g., in amarok's xine engine's config, see if there's a device entry
[08:02] <Hobbsee> crimsun: um, how do i change it for them?
[08:02] <Hobbsee> ah
[08:02] <crimsun> change default to plughw:0
[08:02] <Hobbsee> woo!  amarok crashed with that!
[08:02] <crimsun> ...crashed?
[08:03] <Hobbsee> crimsun: said xine couldnt initialise any drivers, and crashed.
[08:03] <Hobbsee> want the backtrace?
[08:03] <crimsun> sure
[08:03] <crimsun> I don't have Kubuntu 6.10 in front of me; what was changed in the xine config?
[08:04] <Hobbsee> crimsun: ah, a newer version
[08:05] <Hobbsee> crimsun: http://rafb.net/paste/results/A9FE5l22.html
[08:06] <Hobbsee> alsa device config....
[08:07] <Hobbsee> mono/stereo/4/6channels?
[08:07] <crimsun> that's all?
[08:07] <Hobbsee> yep
[08:07] <Hobbsee> well, ie, i can set what goes into those boxes
[08:07] <crimsun> oh, right.
[08:08] <Hobbsee> i just need to know which box to put stuff in :P
[08:08] <crimsun> change stereo from default to plughw:0,0
[08:08] <Hobbsee> crimsun: thanks, will test
[08:09] <Hobbsee> imbrandon_: you're fiddling with your machine, right?
[08:11] <Hobbsee> crimsun: still scrambled.  slightly less scrambled, but it's still scrambled, and the pitch changes.
[08:11] <Hobbsee> so that's obviously not a fix
[08:11] <crimsun> no, I don't think that's alsa.
[08:11] <crimsun> is this a laptop?
[08:12] <Hobbsee> crimsun: yep, toshiba a10 satellite
[08:12] <crimsun> running the latest bios?
[08:12] <Hobbsee> crimsun: good question.  where do i find out about that?  toshiba site?
[08:12] <crimsun> yep, and compare with dmidecode output
[08:13] <crimsun> it's possibly tied to acpi. The symptom is that the sampling rate is shifting.
[08:14] <imbrandon_> Hobbsee: yea , messing with upstart ( e.g. some reboots etc )
[08:14] <Hobbsee> imbrandon_: gotcha
[08:15] <crimsun> I will be away for a couple days to get away from everything, so we may need to resume mid-week
[08:15] <Hobbsee> crimsun: http://rafb.net/paste/results/32mVhF90.html is dmidecode output
[08:15] <Hobbsee> still looking for bios stuff
[08:15] <Hobbsee> crimsun: fair enough, that's fine
[08:15] <imbrandon_> crimsun: takin some ( much deserved ) time off ? cool
[08:15] <crimsun> Hobbsee: right, lines 11-12
[08:17] <Hobbsee> http://eu.computers.toshiba-europe.com/cgi-bin/ToshibaCSG/download_bios.jsp?service=EU
[08:17] <Hobbsee> assuming it's that....
[08:20] <crimsun> that's unfortunate. I have no idea if that's the same version.
[08:20] <Hobbsee> it's different
[08:20] <Hobbsee> the date is later
[08:20] <Hobbsee> hey cool, you can update this from within windows.
[08:20] <crimsun> right, but I can't tell what it fixes or anything since there's no description
[08:20] <crimsun> and what's 1.30-TRAD vs. 1.30?
[08:21] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure
[08:21] <Hobbsee> crimsun: how do i go about fixing my BIOS if i kill it?
[08:22] <crimsun> I'm not convinced that page offers a newer bios revision, really.
[08:22] <crimsun> does the processor speed-step?
[08:23] <Hobbsee> no idea...
[08:23] <Hobbsee> i'm not good on hardware
[08:26] <crimsun> hmm, it might not even use acpi
[08:26] <crimsun> from these pages (google search) it seems to use apm
[08:27] <crimsun> that's another beast in itself
[08:27] <Hobbsee> ahhh...
[08:27] <crimsun> ok, you can try buggy_semaphore=1
[08:28] <crimsun> sudo modprobe -r snd-intel8x0 && sudo modprobe snd-intel8x0 buggy_semaphore=1
[08:28] <Hobbsee> sudo modprobe -r snd-intel8x0 && sudo modprobe snd-intel8x0 buggy_semaphore=1
[08:28] <Hobbsee> oops
[08:30] <crimsun> lovely. Some reports say acpi, others say apm.
[08:30] <Hobbsee> according to dmidecode both are supported, right?
[08:30] <crimsun> yes
[08:31] <Hobbsee> (has no idea what sh'es talking about, sorry!)
[08:31] <crimsun> same symptom?
[08:32] <Hobbsee> yeah, still buggered.  seems a bit less buggered though
[08:33] <crimsun> sorry, that really seems to be beyond alsa
[08:33] <Hobbsee> crimsun: right, okay.  thanks for your help though :)
[10:01] <hunger> good morning
[10:08] <danimo> moin
[10:08] <Hobbsee> greetings
[10:08] <danimo> hi Hobbsee
[10:10] <imbrandon> ugh got to be up in 5 hours , sleep time, bbiab 
[10:11] <Hobbsee> heh
[10:11] <Hobbsee> night!
[10:11] <imbrandon> danimo: btw i had limited success with teh compile now BUT ....
[10:11] <hunger> imbrandon: Good night to you.
[10:11] <imbrandon> it segfaults heh sooo i'll dig a little more tomattow
[10:11] <seaLne> Hobbsee: should the you don't have xine extra codecs message in amarok have worked for streams?
[10:11] <imbrandon> gnight hunger
[10:11] <danimo> imbrandon: ok, cool :)
[10:11] <imbrandon> night Hobbsee danimo
[10:11] <danimo> imbrandon: bye
[10:11] <Hobbsee> seaLne: dont remember
[10:11] <seaLne> it didn't for me
[10:12] <imbrandon> seaLne: if not i think it should be "fixed" for mp3/m3u streams yes
[10:12] <imbrandon> and .pls ? but problem with .pls is it can be anything ( like ogg etc )
[10:12] <imbrandon> but 90% or better are mp3 .pls's
[10:13] <seaLne> the weird thing for a user being that they get the stream title and stuff appearing, just no sound
[10:13] <imbrandon> wonder if there is a way to "pre-parse" the playlist to get the media type
[10:14] <Hobbsee> that script needs better error checking anyway.
[10:14] <imbrandon> hrm , well i'm too tired to think about it honestly but i have a patch to apply to amarok tomarrow anyhow so if you shoot me off an email i'll rember to look at that too
[10:14] <imbrandon> seaLne: very true
[10:14] <seaLne> is it some how still parsing the idv3 tag even though it can't play the music?
[10:14] <imbrandon> it dosent handle cancel and such gracefully iirc
[10:15] <imbrandon> yea id3 tag info comes from taglib 
[10:15] <imbrandon> and thatas in main and installed with amarok
[10:15] <seaLne> k
[10:15] <imbrandon> thats*
[10:15] <imbrandon> same lib handles ogg mp3 and others iirc
[10:15] <imbrandon> anyhow BED for me , gnight seaLne
[10:16] <imbrandon> if you shoot me a mail or poke me in the morn i'll look at the script closer when i put the artwork patch in tomarrow
[10:17] <seaLne> n
[10:18] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: he is/was using -0ubuntu2 becouse thats what is backported to dapper atm
[10:19] <imbrandon> its fixed in edgy but the dapper souyz has an issue atm with multi backports
[10:19] <Hobbsee> ah
[10:19] <imbrandon> keybuck should fix it monday so all will be gravy
[10:19] <imbrandon> same with konvo and kopete
[10:20] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: just fyi ( to be fixed soonish e.g. monday "sometime" ) its malone bug 58144 thats put a damper on backports for the moment
[10:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58144 in soyuz "Backport is rejected if an older backport is already there" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58144
[10:21] <imbrandon> anyhow , i'm off
[10:21] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: ah okay, cool
[10:21] <imbrandon> <screen detached>
[11:04] <Tonio_> heya
[11:13] <Hobbsee> hi Tonio_ 
[11:13] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: yop :)
[11:13] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: do you see guidance power manager launching twice too ?
[11:14] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: yes
[11:14] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: you mean that's a bug?  i thought that was something weird with my session saving.
[11:14] <Tonio_> _Sime: I don't figure out why
[11:14] <Tm_T> well
[11:14] <Tonio_> there is only one autostart entry
[11:14] <Tm_T> 11:53 < _tsdgeos> Tm_T: well, i currently have four (4) guidance power manager icons in the systray
[11:14] <Hobbsee> er, indeed.
[11:14] <Tonio_> tonio@kubuntu:~/.kde/share/config/session$ ps -A | grep guidance
[11:14] <Tonio_>  4717 ?        00:00:01 guidance-power-
[11:14] <Tonio_>  4737 ?        00:00:01 guidance-power-
[11:14] <Tonio_> also the name of the process is........... strange at least :)
[11:15] <Tm_T> 11:55 < tsdgeos> four guidance icons and the klaptop icon
[11:15] <Tonio_> Tm_T: hu ? isn't there a conflict between the packages ?
[11:15] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: point.  it is only there once
[11:15] <Tm_T> Tonio_: I don't know, I don't have laptop with KDE
[11:15] <Tm_T> Tonio_: and that's not kubuntu user even, KDE devel
[11:16] <Tonio_> okay, I can't work on this today, I still have to finish installing in my girlfriend's appartment...
[11:16] <Tonio_> I'll be okay tomorrow for this :)
[11:16] <Tm_T> so there seems to be some problems in upstream too ;)
[11:16] <Tonio_> seya tomorrow then :)
[11:16] <Tm_T> hi Tonio_ 
[11:16] <Tm_T> and have fun ;)
[11:16] <Hobbsee> hey Jucato 
[11:17] <Jucato> :-D
[11:17] <Tm_T> hi kids
[11:17] <Jucato> kids... I feel so young again :-D
[11:23] <Jucato> argh... errands...
[11:36] <hunger> But the mouse over display does not show anymore. Was that removed? I am sure I had one with the version with the old icon.
[11:38] <seaLne> it does for me
[11:51] <Hobbsee> interesting....very interesting
[11:51] <Hobbsee> hunger: ping?
[11:52] <Hobbsee> and anyone who was just in that g-p-m discussion
[11:52] <Hobbsee> Jucato: help me out?
[11:53] <abattoir> Hobbsee: what's up?
[11:54] <Hobbsee> abattoir: i've been testing out various g-p-m stuff - why a whole lot of us get multiple icons
[11:54] <abattoir> yes... i was reading :)
[11:55] <Hobbsee> the bug is that g-p-m doesnt respect the session saving settings.  so unless you start with an empty session, you get multiples, it seems....
[11:55] <abattoir> even though i made sure i quit it before logging out
[11:55] <Hobbsee> however, i havent figured out much more than that
[11:55] <Hobbsee> abattoir: it doesnt matter, it doesnt understand that killed is killed.
[11:55] <Hobbsee> abattoir: try killing it, and logging in again?
[11:56] <abattoir> ok...
[11:56] <danimo> they scored extremely well
[11:59] <danimo> Hobbsee: kstart --iconify ./foo
[12:00] <danimo> Hobbsee: would that help?
[12:00] <abattoir> Hobbsee: yes, it always loads an instance... and kde's session mgmt. loads up previous instances
[12:01] <Jucato> err... sorry Hobbsee, I was away.
[12:02] <Hobbsee> abattoir: what happens if you killall guidance-power-manager, check with ps aux | grep power, and then restart kde?  does the same thing happen?
[12:02] <Jucato> yeah I had that same experience with g-p-m and thought it might have something to do with restoring the previous session. it disappeared when I set KDe to start with an empty session...
[12:02] <abattoir> Hobbsee: that's what i generally do... and the next time I startup, there is an icon(when there shouldnt be)
[12:05] <Hobbsee> abattoir: darn, so you really have to start with an empty session to fix it
[12:08] <abattoir> it is loaded, even in a fresh session
[12:09] <Jucato> but only once
[12:09] <Jucato> because g-p-m is in /usr/sharAutomatix: http://www.getautomatix.com/ || EasyUbuntu: http://easyubuntu.freecontrib.org/start
[12:09] <Jucato> lol sorry
[12:09] <Jucato> because g-p-m is in /usr/share/autostart
[12:10] <abattoir> Jucato: yes, but none of the other entries there load if you quit them once...
[12:12] <Jucato> rawr... away again...
[12:22] <Hobbsee> yay for irssi :)
[12:24] <gnomefreak> is there a reason amarok isnt a depend of kubuntu-desktop. and would it make sence to add it since everyone is media hungry?
[12:24] <gnomefreak> nvm it is
[12:25] <gnomefreak> for some reason i thought i had to install it
[12:30] <Lure> hunger: mouse over guidance is already fixed in svn
[12:31] <Hobbsee> hmmm.
[12:32] <Hobbsee> danimo:  it half worked!
[12:35] <Hobbsee> eh.  sort of
[12:35] <danimo> Hobbsee: what failed?
[12:36] <Hobbsee> danimo: er, actually, it did work.  it just didnt do quite what i wanted.  i'd like it to keep the windows maximised when i click on their icons in the tray
[12:37] <Hobbsee> i guess i can set the individual windows like that...
[12:37] <Hobbsee> hmmm.
[12:39] <Riddell> hi abattoir 
[12:39] <abattoir> Riddell: hi, i finally got the hang of bzr :P
[12:39] <Hobbsee> hey Riddell 
[12:39] <abattoir> Riddell: and... it works better than the GTK UI? :S
[12:40] <Hobbsee> dinner
[12:40] <Riddell> abattoir: cool
[12:40] <Riddell> abattoir: so your archive is complete?
[12:40] <abattoir> Riddell: yes... only the password and confirm password thing left.. i couldnt figure that out :(
[12:41] <Riddell> password to what?
[12:41] <abattoir> Riddell: in the last step, when the Password and confirm password fields dont match, the GTK UI does nothing, while the KDE UI finishes...
[12:42] <Riddell> abattoir: I've never used a UI
[12:43] <abattoir> huh?
[12:43] <abattoir> Riddell: I mean the GTK and KDE frontend :P
[12:44] <Riddell> I've never used either
[12:45] <abattoir> Riddell: what do you mean?
[12:45] <Riddell> I just use the command line
[12:45] <abattoir> aah, so how do you input?
[12:46] <abattoir> Riddell: ok,ok, there has been a misunderstanding... i didnt mean the bzr UI
[12:46] <Riddell> aah
[12:46] <abattoir> Riddell: i meant oem-config :)
[12:46] <Riddell> got ye
[12:47] <Riddell> so the KDE oem-config is more fixed than the gnome one, sorted
[12:47] <abattoir> Riddell: 'more fixed'?
[12:47] <Riddell> well it works while the gnome one seems to be broken
[12:48] <abattoir> Riddell: i dont face any errors w/ the gnome UI
[12:48] <abattoir> Riddell: at which step? what happens?
[12:48] <Riddell> abattoir: you say "the GTK UI does nothing"
[12:49] <danimo> Riddell: edgy finally has a kde oem mode?
[12:49] <danimo> cool
[12:49] <Riddell> danimo: it will when we merge in abattoir's work
[12:49] <abattoir> Riddell: well, if the password fields dont match, 'nothing' is better than finishing :P
[12:49] <abattoir> Riddell: password and confirm password, that is
[12:50] <Riddell> abattoir: I see
[12:50] <Riddell> debconf will report a failure and I guess that bit isn't well tested
[12:51] <abattoir> Riddell: i'll see if i can fix it by tonight, else i'll come back to you or ask Kamion for help..
[12:51] <abattoir> Riddell: otherwise everything works fine :)
[12:52] <abattoir> danimo: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuOEMInstaller
[12:52] <danimo> abattoir: how does oem mode work exactly? like can I create a setup and clone that to X PCs?
[12:53] <Riddell> danimo: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ubuntu_OEM_Installer_Overview
[12:53] <Riddell> danimo: you do the install then dd the disk image to all your other laptops/desktops, then sell them to customers
[12:54] <Riddell> Hobbsee: hide behind the sofa
[12:55] <Hobbsee> Riddell: heh.  or just come up here
[12:55] <Hobbsee> Riddell: there's a wall behind the sofa.  i wont fit.
[12:56] <danimo> Hobbsee: dr. who is awesome
[12:56] <danimo> Hobbsee: I love the show
[12:56] <danimo> Hobbsee: can't wait for christmas
[12:57] <Hobbsee> :P
[12:57] <danimo> Hobbsee: what episode are you watching?
[12:58] <Hobbsee> danimo: i'm not sure, i wandered in late.  the tardis has been destroyed in an earthquake, and there's a guy with black writing all over him.
[12:58] <danimo> Hobbsee: ah, "impossible planet/satans pit"
[12:58] <Hobbsee> danimo: probably
[12:58] <danimo> Hobbsee: great stuff :)
[12:58] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:58] <Hobbsee> danimo: have fun watching it :P
[12:59] <danimo> hehe
[12:59] <danimo> Hobbsee: I already know most episodes since 2005 inside out
[12:59] <danimo> that said, wikipedia has a really good episode guide :)
[01:00] <Hobbsee> danimo: true that.  scary :P
[01:04] <Riddell> sebas: why did you make power manager not be a kuniqueapplication?
[01:05] <Lure> Riddell: I think it was partialy due the missing dcop fix, but sebas has more info
[01:05] <Riddell> Hobbsee: what's that?
[01:05] <Hobbsee> Riddell: delete the /usr/share/autostart/guidance-power-manager.desktop :P
[01:05] <Jucato> heheh
[01:06] <Riddell> well, that doesn't help for the first boot
[01:06] <Hobbsee__> Riddell: true that.
[01:06] <Hobbsee__> what?
[01:06] <Hobbsee__> the session never seems to get killed.
[01:06] <Hobbsee__> Riddell: doesnt help for the very first boot of a new user, yes.
[01:06] <Jucato> abattoir mentioned something a while ago?
[01:07] <abattoir> Jucato: no, dont think so...
[01:07] <Jucato> ah.. must have misread something...
[01:07] <abattoir> Jucato: nothing after the message on g-p-m
[01:08] <Jucato> ah I must have misunderstood. I thought you meant that if I quit the extra g-p-m's once, they won't get reloaded in the next session. sorry about that
[01:09] <Hobbsee> Jucato: that's the problem - they do
[01:09] <Jucato> yeah. I had 4 of them last night...
[01:10] <Jucato> I just set the Session Manager to start with an empty session... but that doesn't really help much, since the default is to restore from the previous session...
[01:12] <Hobbsee> ah darn, i'm not in irssi anymore
[01:15] <Hobbsee> well, if you delete the respective lines in ~/.kde/ksmserver* (whatever it is), then it works as intended.
[01:28] <Lure> Riddell: sent another pm fix (just in case if you are packaging new version)
[01:31] <Riddell> Lure: you might want to ask for a KDE SVN account now :)
[01:31] <danimo> ack
[01:32] <Lure> Riddell: how do you do that?
[01:32] <danimo> Lure: http://developer.kde.org/joining/applysvnaccount.php
[01:32] <Riddell> http://developer.kde.org/joining/applysvnaccount.php
[01:32] <Riddell> hmm, google has the ?edit pages in it's results
[01:34] <Lure> danimo, Riddell: thanks - was not aware how easy it is... Will do now...
[01:35] <Lure> what is preffered way? https or ssh? (I suspect ssh)
[01:40] <Riddell> Lure: ssh is much nicer in my opinion
[01:40] <Lure> Riddell: I thought so...
[01:48] <Riddell> jdong: what's up?
[01:48] <jdong> Riddell: bug 58165
[01:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58165 in hal "security policy error with hald after latest updates" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58165
[01:49] <jdong> I get those types of error messages
[02:10] <jdong|coreduo> am I really the only one here with a broken dbus
[02:10] <jdong|coreduo> :(
[02:10] <Hobbsee> why do we have a separate "power menu" icon under kmenu --> lost and found?
[02:16] <toma> because you have thrown the desktop file away?
[02:18] <Hobbsee> point.
[02:18] <Hobbsee> i thought i put that back....
[02:18] <Hobbsee> yeah, i did...
[02:19] <Jucato> will there be a way to remove the Hibernate option from the Logout menu?
[02:20] <Hobbsee> not easily, i suspect
[02:21] <Jucato> ok... gotta get used to not hitting that button :-/
[02:22] <seaLne> you could change the default one, then press return?
[02:23] <Jucato> yeah I do that too
[02:23] <Goliath23> hi
[02:24] <Goliath23> kdebase maintainers around?
[02:24] <Jucato> but my muscle memory was quite used to clicking on the last button to reboot :-D
[02:24] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: er, what in particularly were you wanting to know?
[02:25] <Goliath23> a solution for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/56206 (kpersonalizer starts every time kubuntu starts) ... a very anoying bug and low hanging fruit in terms of fixing it I guess
[02:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56206 in kdebase "kpersonalizer (the first time wizard) starts every time I start KDE" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  
[02:26] <Jucato> Dapper right?
[02:26] <Goliath23> right
[02:26] <Jucato> let me dig up the "hack" for that...
[02:26] <Goliath23> it's already tracked down to the generation on kpersonalizerrc missing the [General]  section
[02:27] <Goliath23> Jucato: it's not about the hack. I fixed that for my system. I just find this is a very annoying bug which should be fixed with a new kdebase version immediately, won't you agree?
[02:27] <Goliath23> would you ..
[02:27] <Goliath23> sry ;()
[02:28] <Hobbsee> Riddell: how bad's that hack?
[02:28] <Jucato> which brings up another question... there are quite a few bugs in KDE 3.5.4 on Kubuntu. will they be looked into after Edgy is released?
[02:29] <Hobbsee> that's an update of k-d-s, it looks like
[02:29] <Jucato> Hobbsee: could you check if my "solution" was safe? http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=8041.0
[02:30] <Goliath23> Jucato: looks like a hack to me.
[02:30] <Jucato> I did say it was a hack...
[02:31] <Goliath23> I guess the problem is fixed if just the kpersonalizerrc was created correctly
[02:31] <Hobbsee> does this happen on edgy?
[02:31] <fdoving> Jucato: i wouldn't do it that way, if it wasn't my own system.
[02:31] <Jucato> Hobbsee: no...
[02:31] <fdoving> Hobbsee: no. not as far as i'm concerned.
[02:31] <Jucato> fdoving: I'd love to be able to give a proper way...
[02:32] <Jucato> actually it also didn't come from me. but we have been trying to work out some of these bugs ourselves since KDE 3.5.4 came out...
[02:33] <Hobbsee> why is this being evil, and not doing what i want
[02:33] <Jucato> so I'm curious if there will be some patches made available for Dapper after Edgy is released... after all Dapper is LTS, but then agian, KDE 3.5.4 isn't standard
[02:33] <fdoving> Jucato: put [General]  \n FirstLogin=false in ~/.kde/share/config/kpersonalizerrc maybe? 
[02:33] <Goliath23> fdoving: that's the fix for one user, yes
[02:34] <fdoving> Goliath23: yes, it's kind of a voodoo magic problem.
[02:34] <fdoving> the problem exists on dapper, but not on edgy.
[02:34] <fdoving> the sources are the same.
[02:34] <Jucato> fdoving: and if kpersonalizerrc doesn't exist? create it and put that one line?
[02:35] <Goliath23> is there a public repository for the packaging where one could look into the latest commits between kde353 and 354? (I mean the kubuntu repo, not the kde repo)
[02:35] <Lure> Jucato: what is the problem with hibernate in logout?
[02:35] <fdoving> /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/config/kpersonalizerrc is set correct, but it doesn't work somehow.
[02:35] <fdoving> it works correctly on edgy though.
[02:35] <Hobbsee> we dont even install kpersonalizer by default, last i looked
[02:35] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ping
[02:35] <Jucato> Lure: I don't have hibernate on my system?
[02:35] <Lure> Jucato: HAL thinks differently.. ;-)
[02:36] <Jucato> Hobbsee: yes we don't. but the upgrade to KDE 3.5.4 does
[02:36] <Goliath23> maybe this patch has something to do with it? : 
[02:36] <Goliath23> +  * Make ksmserver Recommend kpersonalizer, since it is used when
[02:36] <Goliath23> +    running KDE for the first time. Also patch startkde so it doesn't
[02:36] <Goliath23> +    fail when kpersonalizer is not present. (Closes: #309803)
[02:36] <Lure> Jucato: did you try it?
[02:36] <Lure> Jucato: desktop or laptop?
[02:36] <Jucato> desktop
[02:36] <fdoving> Goliath23: isn't that included in edgy too? 
[02:36] <Jucato> I tried. I had an error and had to reboot. I forgot to take note of the error . I was in a hurry :-D
[02:37] <fdoving> gah.. my server is named 'edge' and i run 'ssh edgy' all the time. 
[02:37] <Lure> Jucato: maybe we need to offer this only if machine is detected as laptop (to be on safe side)
[02:37] <Lure> Riddell: ^^^ any opinion abut this?
[02:37] <Goliath23> fdoving: dunno. just read it in the changelog included in the kdebase54 diff
[02:37] <Hobbsee> when kpersonalizer is run the first time, when the kpersonalizerrc is set to true, does it behave all the time - ie, not start on subsequent times?
[02:38] <Jucato> Lure: probably. although the Power Management module in System Settings is also missing, so I presumed it detected that my system is a desktop. hence my surprise at seeing a Hibernate butotn
[02:38] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: ^
[02:38] <Jucato> Hobbsee: it runs every single time in KDE 3.5.4 on Dapper
[02:38] <fdoving> Jucato: even after FirstLogin=False in ~/.kde/share/config/kpersonalizerrc is set? 
[02:39] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yes, but what happens if you set firstlogin="true" - does it still start each time?
[02:39] <Jucato> fdoving, Hobbsee: I meant that unless you edit some config files, it will keep on running everytime.
[02:40] <Jucato> is it safe to create the kpersonalizerrc file if it does not exist yet? and put only one line it?
[02:40] <fdoving> yes.
[02:40] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yes, and how do you edit the config files so that it works as intended?  use firstlogin="true"?
[02:40] <Goliath23> who creates that file on kubuntu anyway?
[02:40] <Lure> Jucato: thanks for info - will look how we decide for powermanager starting and do the same for logout
[02:41] <Jucato> Hobbsee: I just comment this line out in /usr/bin/startkde: "kpersonalizerrc General FirstLogin true"
[02:41] <Jucato> so that it would affect all users, not only mine
[02:42] <Hobbsee> Jucato: that's a dodgy patch.
[02:42] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: kubuntu-default-settings, unless i miss my guess.
[02:42] <Jucato> yeah... I'm going to change it to fdoving's suggestion
[02:42] <Jucato> but I'm thinking about how to make this change system-wide
[02:43] <fdoving> i'm making a testenvironment now.
[02:44] <fdoving> pbuilder is powerful. :)
[02:44] <Hobbsee> Jucato: easy.  modify k-d-s
[02:44] <Jucato> strange, /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/config/kpersonalizerrc has set FirstLogin=false. but IIRC, until I changed that in startkde, it didn't work...
[02:44] <fdoving> Jucato: that's the strange part, and this works in edgy.
[02:44] <Jucato> can the changes in startkde affect the ones in k-d-s?
[02:44] <Jucato> fdoving: yeah, I've noticed that too
[02:45] <Jucato> but the stranger fact is that KPersonalizer gets installed when KDE is upgraded to 3.5.4 in Dapper
[02:45] <fdoving> aha.. that might be the problem.
[02:46] <Goliath23> nah, that's okay... it just shouldnt start
[02:46] <fdoving> i don't have kpersonalizer installed on edgy.
[02:46] <Jucato> Goliath23: no, actually, it shouldn't be installed at all
[02:46] <Jucato> it's not part of kubuntu-desktop's dependencies
[02:46] <fdoving> that could be the problem, because the settings in startkde probably overrides the settings in k-d-s.
[02:46] <Jucato> I always thought that KDE looked in $HOME first, then in k-d-s, then only in /usr...
[02:47] <fdoving> startkde makes ~/.kde/share/config/startupconfigkeys
[02:47] <Goliath23> Hobbsee: just to understand the mechanism... k-d-s is not a program, it's a directory. so what happens to the files in that directory? a simple copy operation on user createn? triggered through what?
[02:47] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: i think so, yes.
[02:47] <Goliath23> copy it is?
[02:47] <fdoving> and kde probably priortitize $HOME settings.
[02:47] <Hobbsee> triggered thru the lack of .kde folder
[02:47] <Goliath23> Hobbsee: triggered in startkde
[02:47] <Goliath23> ?
[02:48] <fdoving> Goliath23: triggered through user changing settings. 
[02:49] <Goliath23> fdoving: pardon?
[02:49] <fdoving> Goliath23: when a user change a setting the files are saved in ~/.kde/ 
[02:49] <Goliath23> fdoving: yes. question was if the initial genration of .kde is just a copy operation form the k-d-s directory...
[02:49] <Jucato> fdoving: I see that my commenting out that line in startkde also commented it out in ~/.kde/share/config/startupconfigkeys
[02:49] <fdoving> Goliath23: no. it's not (afaik).
[02:50] <fdoving> Goliath23: only the needed files are made. if there are no changes the files should be read from /usr/share...
[02:50] <fdoving> i THINK. 
[02:50] <Jucato> Goliath23: AFAIK, k-d-s settings are not copied, but an entirely new set of config/xml files are generated for .kde ...
[02:50] <Hobbsee> !info kubuntu-default-settings
[02:50] <ubotu> kubuntu-default-settings: Default settings and artwork for the Kubuntu desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 1:6.06-22 (dapper), package size 1970 kB, installed size 3080 kB
[02:50] <Jucato> Hobbsee: try apt:/ in Konqueror....
[02:51] <Hobbsee> Jucato: neat, thanks
[02:51] <fdoving> that will be slow to, if p.u.c is slow . it basically contact p.u.c to do it's job.
[02:52] <Jucato> fdoving: part of apt:/ uses apt-cache, part of it uses p.u.c
[02:52] <fdoving> Jucato: i know, i packaged it :)
[02:52] <Jucato> fdoving: yay!! so it's you who I have to thank!
[02:53] <Jucato> did you also make it? it looks like a Kubuntu-only kio-slave
[02:53] <fdoving> no, i didn't make it.
[02:53] <Jucato> ah
[02:53] <Jucato> but still, thanks for packaging :-D
[02:53] <fdoving>  Sylvain Joyeux  did.
[02:53] <Jucato> that's one KIO slave advantage we have over SUSE.
[02:53] <Jucato> s/doesevil/does evil
[02:54] <fdoving> Hobbsee: what do you patch? startkde? 
[02:55] <Goliath23> Hobbsee: did you see that commented out lines in startkde?
[02:55] <Goliath23> concerning kersonalizer?
[02:56] <Goliath23> looks strange to me!
[02:56] <Hobbsee> fdoving: no, i'd try to avoid patching that, if possible
[02:56] <fdoving> agreed.
[02:56] <fdoving> but i think that's the root of the problem.
[02:59] <Jucato> if test "$kpersonalizerrc_general_firstlogin" = "true"; then <-- where does startkde get the $kpersonalizerrc_general_firstlogin?
[02:59] <fdoving> Hobbsee: what do you want to change in k-d-s? 
[03:00] <Hobbsee> fdoving: the config file for kpersonalizer
[03:01] <Hobbsee> someone got an i386 machine that they havent tampered with?
[03:01] <fdoving> only edgy ppc here.. 
[03:01] <Goliath23> Jucato: from line 76 : . $kdehome/share/config/startupconfig
[03:01] <Hobbsee> (or reverse all the other changes that they've made w.r.t this stuff)
[03:01] <Jucato> $KDEHOME, not $HOME?
[03:02] <Jucato> and $KDEHOME on Kubuntu is /etc/kde3 right?
[03:02] <Hobbsee> fdoving: sorry, i dont have access to building on that.  i can post the source and you can compile it, if you want
[03:02] <fdoving> Hobbsee: this setup works in edgy. just checked. 
[03:02] <Hobbsee> http://buntudot.org/people/~hobbsee/
[03:02] <Hobbsee> debs for dapper are there
[03:02] <fdoving> with kpersonaliser installed.
[03:02] <Hobbsee> see if that fixes the problem, with no other change
[03:03] <fdoving> Jucato: could you test this? as i'm on edgy.
[03:03] <Jucato> what will I test? hold on logging into a new user to check if I have reversed my "hack"
[03:03] <fdoving> Hobbsee: k-d-s is not arch spesific.. though.
[03:03] <fdoving> Jucato: http://buntudot.org/people/~hobbsee/kubuntu-default-settings_6.06-23_all.deb
[03:04] <Jucato> ok I was able to reverse my "hack", downloading the .deb, and also checking if a kpersonalizerrc was created in $HOME if you choose to skip the wizard
[03:04] <Hobbsee> fdoving: true.  you're welcome to see if it installs :)
[03:05] <fdoving> Hobbsee: as i don't have the problem, i doubt it will make any difference.
[03:05] <Goliath23> Hobbsee: what did you change?
[03:06] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: the k-d-s config file for kthingorc
[03:06] <Hobbsee> :P
[03:06] <Hobbsee> debdiff is up there too
[03:06] <Jucato> so kpersonalizerrc wasn't created in $HOME, and k-d-s still says FirstLogin=false. installing patch
[03:07] <Jucato> yikes..
[03:07] <Jucato> hold on :-D
[03:07] <fdoving> Hobbsee: FirstLogin=true ? heh.. well :)
[03:07] <Hobbsee> i would test it myself, but i dont have kde 3.5.4 on dapper, and i'm not booted to there anyway
[03:07] <Goliath23> Hobbsee: so "FirstLogin=true" means tat the firstlogin happened already?
[03:07] <fdoving> that would set the same as startkde sets.
[03:08] <Hobbsee> fdoving: well, it seems to me that you actually *want* it to start up the first time, after you install it.
[03:08] <Hobbsee> fdoving: and if it shuts up after that, then isnt that the intended behaviour?
[03:08] <Jucato> Hobbsee: so it starts Kpersonalizer again.
[03:08] <Goliath23> Hobbsee: actually, the kubuntu guys dont want it to start at all
[03:08] <Hobbsee> if you're going and installing it deliberately, then you certainly want it to start.
[03:08] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: true that.  things randomly starting up are evil.  but some are needed.
[03:09] <fdoving> Hobbsee: then what's the purpose of the kpersonalizerrc in k-d-s ? 
[03:09] <Hobbsee> fdoving: now if i knew *that*....
[03:09] <Jucato> lol
[03:09] <fdoving> Hobbsee: check apt-cache rdepends kpersonalizer
[03:10] <jdong_> is there a way to mark every single package for reinstallation?
[03:10] <fdoving> it's certainly installed by default.
[03:10] <jdong_> I just found some really messed permissions/ownership on my filesystem
[03:10] <Jucato> Hobbsee: congratulations!
[03:10] <jdong_> so I suspect that is part of the problem with my breakage
[03:10] <Hobbsee> fdoving: can you pastebin it please?  
[03:10] <Hobbsee> jdong_: yay.  breakage is fun!
[03:11] <Hobbsee> ahhh...i see.
[03:11] <jdong_> I'm a few ideas aways from reinstalling :(
[03:11] <Jucato> your patched worked. after KPersonalizer starts once, it doesn't run again
[03:11] <jdong_> and this is a heavily customized setup, so I'd rather not
[03:11] <fdoving> Hobbsee: http://rafb.net/paste/results/X2D51n27.html
[03:11] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yay....
[03:11] <Jucato> Hobbsee: it has one side effect though...
[03:11] <Hobbsee> fdoving: yep, right
[03:11] <Hobbsee> Jucato: which is?  it starts the first time?
[03:11] <Jucato> other than that
[03:12] <Jucato> I have disabled KDM Themes. It re-enabled them.
[03:12] <Hobbsee> what the....
[03:12] <Jucato> I'm not sure what it will do for someone using a different KDM Theme
[03:12] <fdoving> jdong_: dpkg --get-selections|cut -f1|apt-get install --reinstall
[03:12] <fdoving> maybe? 
[03:12] <Hobbsee> *how*?
[03:12] <jdong_> fdoving: will give it a shot
[03:12] <Jucato> rawr! darn xterm... 
[03:12] <Goliath23> my guess is line 64 in startkde! ... 
[03:13] <fdoving> Goliath23: it's just strange that edgy respects k-d-s kpersonalizerrc.
[03:13] <Hobbsee> um.  we dont install kdebase by default?
[03:13] <Jucato> we don't
[03:13] <Goliath23> I guess startupconfigkeys are those applied on every start of kstartupconfig... and there is a firstlogin true in it, which makes no sense I thinkg.
[03:14] <fdoving> Hobbsee: my bad, ignore it all. 
[03:14] <Jucato> even with Hobbsee's patch, startupconfigkeys still says "kpersonalizerrc General FirstLogin true"
[03:14] <Hobbsee> Jucato: true that.
[03:14] <Goliath23> I know.
[03:14] <Goliath23> and does the patch work?
[03:14] <Jucato> yes it does
[03:14] <Jucato> with a side effect...
[03:15] <Hobbsee> theoretically, if the bug is in startupconfigkeys, then all distros should get it, not just us.
[03:15] <Jucato> Hobbsee: I don't think so... this only came up in KDE 3.5.4...
[03:15] <fdoving> the bug doesn't exist in edgy, that's what puzzles me.
[03:15] <Jucato> fdoving: maybe because KPErsonalizer isn't installed in Edgy?
[03:16] <Jucato> but upgrading to kde 3.5.4 installs KPersonalizer
[03:16] <fdoving> i have it installed. and it doesn't start with a clean account.
[03:16] <Jucato> hm...
[03:16] <Hobbsee> it would occur upgrading to 3.5.2, too, actually.
[03:16] <fdoving> brb.. give the kid some food.
[03:19] <Jucato> Hobbsee: ah, the side effect only happens if you have disabled KDM themes. if you're using a different theme, the theme remains the same
[03:20] <Hobbsee> Jucato: right.
[03:20] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: you aroudn tomorrow?
[03:20] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: it's a sunday, paid employees dont usually work on sundays
[03:20] <Jucato> now, wasn't this all exciting? we made Hobbsee make a patch for k-d-s :-D
[03:20] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:20] <Goliath23> maybe in the evening. better you contact me by mail
[03:21] <Goliath23> Hobbsee: why?
[03:21] <Jucato> one KDE 3.5.4-on-Dapper bug down, and a few more to go...
[03:21] <Goliath23> does the fix work?
[03:22] <Jucato> Hobbsee's fix? it does
[03:22] <Hobbsee> my patch?  Jucato said it did
[03:22] <Hobbsee> i'd like Riddell to eyeball it though
[03:22] <Jucato> at least on my end
[03:22] <Jucato> definitely
[03:22] <Goliath23> i'll try it too, later
[03:22] <Jucato> besides, he's the one who
[03:22] <Jucato> who's gonna put it on Kubuntu.org :-D
[03:23] <Jucato> oh Hobbsee... "Settings default mouse cursor theme to Kubuntu ..."
[03:24] <Goliath23> Hobbsee: can you explan why it works? because changing FirstLogin="false" to FirstLogin="true" seems paradox to me ;)
[03:24] <jdong_> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 2202 reinstalled, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[03:24] <jdong_> whee!
[03:24] <Jucato> Goliath23: it means that you really make KPersonalizer run first, so that it could be set to =false in $HOME later...
[03:24] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: evil voodoo, that also happened with amarok.
[03:25] <Jucato> I'll edit my posts in kubuntuforums.net and KDE-Forum to reflect what fdoving said about leaving startkde alone...
[03:25] <Hobbsee> yeah.  that kind of stuff is a little scary, as it tends to break other things too
[03:25] <Goliath23> Hobbsee: yeah, looks like broken by design ;)
[03:26] <Jucato> but it would still be good if a system-wide solution was available. so we have to wait for Riddel for the real thing :-D
[03:26] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: true that.  fortunately, i didnt write it to start with
[03:26] <Jucato> ehehe
[03:26] <Hobbsee> kamion/mdz will have to eyeball it.
[03:26] <Jucato> I really hope that once Edgy is out, Dapper could get a bit of loving again :-D
[03:26] <Goliath23> Hobbsee: maybe we could grab the guy who did it and make him fix it, or helping him with it ;)
[03:26] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:27] <Jucato> Hobbsee: monday is just a few hours away for us... too bad they aren't on our timezone...
[03:27] <Goliath23> EVEN IF IT IS RIDDEL HIMSELF *ducks and runs*
[03:27] <Jucato> lol
[03:27] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: hehe
[03:27] <Jucato> trying to be brave, but intentionally dropping not spelling it :-D
[03:28] <Jucato> I'm keeping Hobbsee's patch. so if something goes wrong, I have something/someone to blame.. :-D
[03:28] <fdoving> any idea why this problem only appear in 3.5.4 on dapper? why does the old way work on edgy? 
[03:28] <Hobbsee> Jucato: hehe.
[03:28] <Hobbsee> fdoving: edgy's a clean install?
[03:28] <fdoving> not my edgy.
[03:28] <Hobbsee> fdoving: technically, it should have trouble on either.  but the dapper kde 3.5.4 packages came back with other problems that edgy's never did
[03:28] <fdoving> it was installed as hoary,dist-upgraded all the way..
[03:29] <fdoving> even though the source was the same.. i know.
[03:29] <Jucato> hm.. was 3.5.4 built for Dapper in the first place? or mainly for and tested on Edgy?
[03:30] <Hobbsee> built for edgy first
[03:30] <fdoving> packaged for kubuntu,and buildt for both dapper and edgy i guess. since dapper was released the primary focus would be edgy :)
[03:30] <Hobbsee> fdoving: well, exactly.
[03:30] <Jucato> heh.. I thought so...
[03:31] <fdoving> i recall riddell thinking this problem was strange back when it first appeared.
[03:31] <Jucato> I also recall him saying that KDE 3.5.4 on Dapper really does have some bugs...
[03:31] <Hobbsee> it does.
[03:32] <Jucato> I know of 3-4 reproducible ones.
[03:32] <Hobbsee> Jucato: got fixes for them?
[03:33] <Jucato> nah. this time, they're not so easy to fix as editing config files...
[03:33] <Jucato> one of them is with HAL
[03:33] <Hobbsee> oh dear.  i had to patch kde 3.5.4's kdenetwork too.  i didnt.
[03:33] <Hobbsee> ah
[03:33] <Hobbsee> new version of hal in edgy, too
[03:33] <Jucato> another with System Settings (not in KControl)
[03:33] <Jucato> and another with "Get New Wallpapers"
[03:34] <fdoving> get wallpapers from kde-look.org isn't it? 
[03:34] <Jucato> yeah
[03:34] <Jucato> Most Downloads and Latest tabs actually
[03:35] <Jucato> you can click on the names, but it won't show in the preview
[03:35] <Jucato> so only the Highest Rated tab works properly
[03:36] <Hobbsee> oh.  lovely.  does that happen in edgy's too?
[03:36] <Jucato> IIRC, no
[03:36] <Jucato> I checked these 4 bugs and weren't able to reproduce them in Edgy
[03:38] <Hobbsee> Jucato: you get that the highest rated one shows in the preview tab, no matter what you hit with the most downloaded, and lastest tabs?
[03:39] <Jucato> Hobbsee: yes
[03:39] <Jucato> in Edgy too?
[03:39] <Hobbsee> yep
[03:39] <Jucato> argh
[03:39] <Jucato> missed that...
[03:39] <Hobbsee> i didnt think that would be dapper specific
[03:39] <Hobbsee> Jucato: file a bug upstream for that :)
[03:39] <Jucato> yey! bugs.kde.org!
[03:39] <Hobbsee> :P
[03:39] <Jucato> hm.. but...
[03:40] <Jucato> I have to check first if it has been reported...
[03:40] <fdoving> there are some nice wallpapers though :)
[03:40] <Jucato> and that's a bit harder :-D
[03:40] <Hobbsee> Jucato: true that.  it kind of does that as you report the bug.
[03:41] <Hobbsee> Jucato: you're using help --> file bug?
[03:41] <Jucato> on any KDE app?
[03:42] <Jucato> ok I have to first think what app/component Get New Wallpapers is associated with...
[03:42] <Hobbsee> should do
[03:42] <Hobbsee> i dont think that's edgy specific
[03:42] <abattoir> Jucato: KHotNewStuff ?
[03:42] <Hobbsee> kcmbackground
[03:42] <Hobbsee> Jucato: file it from within kcontrol
[03:43] <Jucato> someone already filed KDE bug 133188 but under kcontrol
[03:43] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 133188 in kcmbackground ""Most Downloads" and "Latest" tabs of "Get New Wallpapers" window do not work." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133188
[03:43] <Jucato> so it's also in Debian...
[03:44] <Hobbsee> Jucato: systemsettings/kcontrol use the same thing.  well, use alot of the same modules
[03:44] <Hobbsee> Jucato: is there a bug in malone for that?
[03:44] <Jucato> haven't checked. checking now... (I've only been interested in bugs recently...)
[03:45] <Jucato> bug reporting and searching wasn't really the easiest thing for me... until now that I've got the proper motivation :-D
[03:45] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:45] <Jucato> but... how do you search for bugs in LP?
[03:46] <Hobbsee> Jucato: see https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-team/+packagebugs and the search bar
[03:47] <Jucato> hmm.. no search bar. But I did click on "Bugs"
[03:48] <Hobbsee> er, yeah, that, sorry
[03:48] <Hobbsee> hmm..  it's not in there
[03:48] <Jucato> nope. no bug report in Kubuntu Team for that
[03:49] <Hobbsee> Jucato: doesnt seem to be in all of ubuntu for that either, there are only 17 of them.
[03:49] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i wouldnt bother filing it in ours - upstream should fix it
[03:49] <Jucato> yeah. it also seems to be a general KDE bug. also affects Debian
[03:49] <Jucato> if the bug report was filed right...
[03:50] <Jucato> nice... now I know what to say when people ask :-D
[03:50] <Jucato> oh...
[03:51] <Hobbsee> Jucato: well, if it's an upstream bug, it's not our problem, they may as well fix it there, where they know the codebase.  that's my general opinion
[03:51] <Hobbsee> anything that's in our bugtracker of that nature will just get ignored, by that reasoning
[03:51] <Jucato> ah. but a System Settings bug should be filed in LP right?
[03:52] <Hobbsee> it uses the same modules as in kcontrol
[03:52] <Hobbsee> and i think system settings bugtracker is in bko.  _Sime?
[03:52] <Jucato> except that it only happens in System Settings, not in KControl..
[03:52] <Jucato> but Dapper only
[03:53] <Jucato> no, different bug...
[03:53] <Jucato> :-D
[03:53] <Hobbsee> ahhh...
[03:54] <Jucato> from #kubuntu: "<kegie> hey all! I've just upgraded to 3.5.4, worked fine except now I get the personalizer wizard every time I log in. Is there any way of getting rid of it?"
[03:54] <abattoir> there's your guinea pig :D
[03:54] <Jucato> lol
[03:55] <Jucato> hope it works for him like it did for me
[03:56] <Hobbsee> excellent
[03:58] <Jucato> I was about to say that "and Hobbsee is a QOTU",  but restrained myself :-D
[03:58] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:58] <Hobbsee> you coul dhave just said that i was a kubuntu developer
[03:59] <Jucato> I knew that :-D
[03:59] <Jucato> now you'll get requests and questions ... part of the job
[04:00] <abattoir> QOTU?
[04:00] <abattoir> Queen by any chance?
[04:00] <Jucato> yep
[04:01] <Jucato> Queen of the Universe
[04:01] <abattoir> aah, so she's not just a mistress?
[04:01] <Jucato> mistress could be interpreted in defferent ways...
[04:01] <Hobbsee> abattoir: i didtn like the thought of being called the mistress.  hence the queen.
[04:01] <Hobbsee> Jucato: especially with my whip :P
[04:01] <Jucato> lol
[04:02] <Jucato> well, Hobbsee does kick people out when she feels like it. lol
[04:03] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:04] <Hawkwind> http://www.seerofsouls.com/channelstats/kubuntu.html
[04:05] <abattoir> Hawkwind: thanks
[04:05] <abattoir> Hawkwind: hi, btw :)
[04:05] <Jucato> nice job Hobbsee!
[04:05] <Hawkwind> abattoir: Morning, and no problem :)
[04:05] <Hobbsee> Jucato: :)  woo
[04:05] <abattoir> wow, 5 kicks
[04:06] <abattoir> should i say... 'That's all'? ?
[04:06] <Hobbsee> 5 kicks?
[04:06] <abattoir> "Hobbsee  likes to /kick  5"
[04:06] <Hobbsee> hah
[04:06] <Hobbsee> two of them are friends of mine on another server too :)
[04:06] <Hobbsee> cant say i remember what the other 3 are for though
[04:07] <Jucato> haha
[04:07] <Jucato> the one who kept on saying "rm -rf /"?
[04:07] <Hobbsee> him too
[04:07] <Jucato> lol
[04:08] <Jucato> anyone still running Dapper here? and using KDE 3.5.4?
[04:08] <Jucato> I just want to confirm a bug...
[04:08] <Hawkwind> Yes and no
[04:08] <Jucato> aw..
[04:09] <Jucato> time to switch to that newly created user...
[04:09] <fdoving> Hawkwind: cool statistics, could you please alias uniq to fdoving? is that possible with irssistats ? 
[04:10] <abattoir> aah, fdoving is uniq... i didnt know that :P
[04:10] <fdoving> :)
[04:10] <Jucato> neither did I. until I caught him changing from uniq to fdoving :-D
[04:10] <Hawkwind> fdoving: It's possible yes.  Just something I've not done with the stats, but I'll look into it for ya later today
[04:10] <Hobbsee> gah.  no wonder i have trouble remembering everyone when they change their nicks
[04:10] <fdoving> well, needed to make things easier on everyone.. uniq at irc, and fdoving at forums,and frode m. doeving in mailinglists..
[04:11] <Hobbsee> heh.  i dotn think that's easier
[04:11] <Hobbsee> fdoving: did you write on the kubuntu devel mailign list then?
[04:11] <Hobbsee> or was that someone else?
[04:11] <Jucato> hehe
[04:11] <fdoving> Hobbsee: about what? 
[04:12] <Hobbsee> fdoving: updated kde packages for dapper is coming to mind
[04:12] <Hawkwind> Jucato: Since you never sleep...I see you've taken over the top spot for the one who speaks the most :)
[04:13] <Jucato> whoa?
[04:13] <Hobbsee> hmmm.  that reminds me, i should be asleep
[04:13] <Jucato> I do sleep!
[04:13] <Hobbsee> or doing my assignment
[04:13] <Jucato> ehehe
[04:13] <Jucato> Hobbsee: is your site up now?
[04:13] <Hobbsee> Jucato: define "my site"
[04:14] <fdoving> Hobbsee: i haven't written much to that list, last mail was a reply to the 'KDE 3.5.4 problems' thread.
[04:14] <Jucato> err.. I mean, the site that was down? the one you asked me to check if I could connect to it
[04:14] <Hobbsee> fdoving: ah okay
[04:14] <Hobbsee> Jucato: ohhh...my uni site.  still buggered, it seems
[04:14] <Jucato> Hawkwind: omg! I'm on top! I don't know if that's a good thing...
[04:15] <Jucato> lol! I even topped ubotu!
[04:15] <Hawkwind> Hah
[04:15] <Hawkwind> Jucato: It's interesting to check those stats every few days and see who is active and who is not
[04:16] <Hobbsee> e
[04:16] <Hawkwind> Jucato: Good source to look at for someone who might apply to be an op of the channel to prove how active he/she is
[04:16] <Jucato> ehehe yeah... 
[04:16] <Jucato> though I have no plans for that. eheheh
[04:16] <Jucato> I think having Hobbsee is enough to scare the living daylights out of people :-D
[04:16] <Hobbsee> lol
[04:17] <Jucato> ph34r the wh!p!
[04:17] <abattoir> Hawkwind: reminds me... we wanted to discuss something... with Hobbsee?
[04:17] <abattoir> or am i behind times?
[04:17] <Hawkwind> abattoir: We need to discuss quite a bit before Thursday, yes
[04:17] <abattoir> *behind the times
[04:17] <abattoir> aah ok
[04:18] <Hobbsee> abattoir: not at this time of night you dont, but there's a meeting on thursday, where i'd like you guys to present a summary of what you're planning on doing.
[04:18] <Hobbsee> feel free to send me any logs of what you have, if you want, or just tell me
[04:18] <Hobbsee> logs are good.  *shrugs*
[04:18] <Jucato> hm... 
[04:18] <Jucato> we haven't even "met" after that initial one...
[04:18] <Jucato> lol
[04:18] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:18] <Hobbsee> i have a feeling i'll be pretty busy until your wednesday
[04:19] <Hobbsee> 2 assignments to do, at least
[04:19] <Hawkwind> Yeah we need to get things together or else we will have to wait til the next meeting after this Thursdays
[04:20] <Jucato> so when do we meet? Hobbsee and I are from almost the same timezones
[04:20] <Jucato> (how convenient..)
[04:20] <Hobbsee> uh...your tuesday, i suspect
[04:20] <Hobbsee> if i'm around, i'm fine to meet, i think
[04:20] <abattoir> UTC times please... :)
[04:21] <abattoir> *your* *ours* is confusing me
[04:21] <Jucato> lol
[04:21] <Jucato> I'm +8 UTC, Hobbsee is +10
[04:21] <Hobbsee> yeah, we need to keep to UTC
[04:21] <Hawkwind> I'm in CST USA time, it's currently 9:21am Sunday morning :)
[04:21] <Hobbsee> abattoir: i was actually quoting your UTC time there, as it's generic UK time
[04:21] <Hawkwind> I have no idea what that is UTC
[04:21] <Hawkwind> Hah
[04:21] <Hobbsee> abattoir: ie, your tuesday, which is my wednesday
[04:21] <Jucato> ehehe
[04:21] <Hobbsee> Hawkwind: timeanddate.com
[04:22] <abattoir> Hobbsee: *my* tuesday? i dont live in the UK
[04:22] <Jucato> Hawkwind: what place exactly in CST? I'll add it to the clock applet
[04:22] <Jucato> I have NY and CA already...
[04:22] <Hawkwind> Current time zone offset:	UTC/GMT -5 hours
[04:22] <Hobbsee> abattoir: where are you?  US/UK/somewhere near-ish to there?
[04:22] <Hawkwind> Jucato: NY is EST and CA is PST and I'm in CST, which is Houston, Texas
[04:23] <Jucato> ah ok. (I'm only missing MST lol)
[04:24] <Jucato> what the? no texas or houston in show timezones?!!??
[04:25] <abattoir> Hobbsee: nvm, i'll figure it out...
[04:25] <Jucato> hm..
[04:26] <Hobbsee> actually, it's usually
[04:26] <Hawkwind> Jucato: You have to use Chicago
[04:26] <Hobbsee> my $day+1 = everyone else's $day
[04:26] <Jucato> yeah... 
[04:26] <Jucato> ehehe
[04:27] <Jucato> except in my case...
[04:27] <Hobbsee> true that
[04:27] <Hobbsee> Jucato: what time is the meeting for you?
[04:27] <Jucato> 5am lol
[04:27] <Hobbsee> something horrifying?  like...5am?
[04:27] <Hobbsee> ouch
[04:27] <Hobbsee> we should swap that to a night again, sometime
[04:27] <Jucato> hey, I was up until 4am for the #ubuntu-classroom this morning...
[04:27] <Jucato> I think getting up at 5am will be easy :-D
[04:28] <Jucato> which reminds me... I have to make the transcript for the class. lol
[04:28] <Hobbsee> lol
[04:28] <Hobbsee> what was that on?
[04:29] <Jucato> compiling basics
[04:29] <Jucato> which is weird... that it came first before installing packages... which is the class 2 weeks from now...
[04:29] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:29] <Hobbsee> okay then....
[04:30] <Jucato> Ah seems like someone already reported the System Settings bug I mentioned
[04:32] <Hobbsee> bug #?
[04:32] <Hobbsee> mainly because i'm curious.  _Sime likes fixing such things.
[04:32] <Jucato> bug 55470
[04:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55470 in kde-systemsettings "systemsettings crashes when requesting "Command Shortcut"" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55470
[04:32] <Jucato> KDE bug 129787
[04:32] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 129787 in general "warn about shortcuts collisions with system settings" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=129787
[04:32] <Jucato> rawr wrong KDE bug
[04:33] <Hobbsee> lol
[04:33] <Jucato> KDE bug 132255
[04:33] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 132255 in general "systemsettings crashes choosing "Regional & Accessibility" -> "Keyboard Shortcuts" -> "Command Shortcuts"" [Crash,Unconfirmed]  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=132255
[04:33] <Hobbsee> ah yes
[04:33] <Hobbsee> i dont think i want to be, either
[04:34] <Jucato> ehehe
[04:34] <Jucato> it's also in the kubuntu-devel maling list
[04:34] <Hobbsee> bleh.  i do read that.
[04:34] <Jucato> neither do I lol
[04:35] <Jucato> still, it seems to still be the preferred mode of communication between... you know...
[04:35] <Jucato> geeks...
[04:35] <Jucato> :-D
[04:36] <sebas> Riddell: DCop won't work with a KUniqueApplication, don't know why  but it's reported to the PyKDE list. 
[04:36] <sebas> The patch I sent earlier is another problem.
[04:38] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i prefer IRC.  and an email notification, even a log, of what's happened in irc, if i request it, and need to something about it in future
[04:38] <Hobbsee> ditto bug reports via email.
[04:39] <Hobbsee> IRC i can immediately tell the person "your idea is wrong", or "you should do it this way" rather than having to think of a nice way to do it :P
[04:39] <Hobbsee> and it being archived, etc
[04:39] <Hobbsee> people dont tend to look thru the irc logs
[04:39] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[04:39] <Jucato> :-D
[04:40] <Hobbsee> nyah.
[04:40] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, CC on wednesday.
[04:40] <Jucato> huh?
[04:40] <Hobbsee> i got it to output :)
[04:40] <Jucato> ah
[04:41] <Jucato> yikes! 108 unread feeds... I've been ignoring them all afternoon/evening
[04:42] <Hobbsee> send them to /dev/null :P
[04:42] <Jucato> lol
[04:42] <Jucato> btw, is there any plan to provide a GUI for handling ADSL PPPoE connections?
[04:42] <Hobbsee> kpp?
[04:42] <_Sime> sebas: what you can do is look at the list of other apps via DCOP and exit if you see another g-p-m.
[04:42] <Hobbsee> kppp?
[04:42] <Jucato> kppp works only with dial-up, right?
[04:42] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it's there, it just doesnt work, iirc
[04:43] <Hobbsee> er, maybe
[04:43] <Hobbsee> i dont know
[04:43] <Hobbsee> as do most devs
[04:43] <Jucato> cable uses DHCP?
[04:43] <Hobbsee> why do you need a GUI for handling adsl connections?  isnt it done automatically?
[04:43] <Hobbsee> yes
[04:43] <Jucato> grr...
[04:43] <Hobbsee> you can use a static ip, too
[04:43] <Jucato> I think ADLS PPPoE is currently the only type of connection that doesn't have a GUI...
[04:44] <Jucato> you have to dig through the docs to find the command...
[04:44] <Jucato> makes me jealous of drakconf... :-D
[04:44] <Hawkwind> I use all static within my network and I have cable.  DHCP is nothing but a major pain
[04:45] <Hobbsee> ah
[04:45] <Jucato> I did see a KNet app in KDE that seems to configure all types of internet connections.
[04:45] <Hobbsee> find out what it was :)
[04:45] <Hobbsee> bring it up at the meeting
[04:46] <Jucato> I'm not sure how stable/useful it is though. but it would be good to have GUI alternatives for different types of internet connections... (although my LoCo team leader doesn't think so...)
[04:49] <sebas> _Sime: Aye, good point.
[04:50] <_Sime> sebas: that is basically what kuniqueapplication does
[04:51] <Hobbsee> Jucato: stick it on the agenda, discuss at the meeting
[04:52] <Hobbsee> we have 2 hours, and we shoudl get thru everything if everyone stays on topic
[04:52] <Jucato> lol
[04:52] <Jucato> could I stick it there, without being a Kubuntu Team member yet?
[04:52] <Hobbsee> Jucato: of course
[04:53] <Jucato> ok... me goes to the wiki page :-D
[04:53] <Hobbsee> Jucato: you dont get to be part of quorum of course, as you're not on the kubuntu community council - but dont worry, only 6 people are anyway
[04:53] <Jucato> heheh!
[04:56] <Hobbsee> and you dont want to be, as you have to vote :P
[04:56] <Hobbsee> and voting for memberships can be painful - when you have to say "no"
[04:56] <Jucato> hehehe
[04:56] <Jucato> voting for membership on the kubuntu community council?
[04:56] <Hobbsee> yeah
[04:57] <Jucato> bwhahah! I don't think I want to be a member anyway... :-D
[04:57] <Hobbsee> kubuntu membership == ubuntu membership == edubuntu membership anyway
[04:57] <Jucato> aah
[04:57] <Jucato> hmm.. Kubuntu Team = Kubuntu COmmunity Council?
[04:58] <Hobbsee> no
[04:58] <Hobbsee> kubuntu team = place to assign bug reports
[04:58] <Jucato> aah
[04:58] <Hobbsee> kubuntu members = list of members that are to do with kubuntu
[04:58] <Hobbsee> KCC = group of 6 people who make the high decisions, like the CC
[04:58] <Hobbsee> and a few other postions, of course
[04:59] <Jucato> ah
[04:59] <Jucato> you really are the QOTU :-D
[04:59] <Hobbsee> official title is kubuntu community manager.  i would have prefered kubuntu manager or something.  *shrugs*
[04:59] <Hobbsee> it's just a title, but it has it's uses.
[05:00] <Jucato> but "Queen of the Universe" kicks azz
[05:00] <Jucato> :-D
[05:05] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:06] <Hobbsee> night all
[05:06] <Jucato> night Hobbsee!
[05:06] <Hawkwind> Hobbsee: Sleep well
[05:26] <Tm_T> rrrrhhh
[05:26] <Tm_T> I'm slowly getting pretty irritated
[05:27] <Tm_T> after reinstall now my konqueror etc has modified things
[05:27] <Tm_T> well, I mean kubuntu vs kde
[05:29] <Tm_T> but I can't remember how I can revert/remove this kubuntifying
[05:29] <Jucato> for Konqueror?
[05:29] <Tm_T> yes
[05:29] <imbrandon> Tm_T:  you want to use kubuntu without kubuntu ?
[05:29] <imbrandon> remove kubuntu-default-settings ( and purge it )
[05:29] <Tm_T> aah
[05:30] <Tm_T> imbrandon: I don't like to take it all off, just some particular things
[05:30] <imbrandon> short answer, long awnser, patch kde{base,libs}
[05:30] <Jucato> How do I change Konqueror back to the default KDE profiles? http://kubuntu.org/faq.php#konqueror
[05:30] <imbrandon> well remove /change what you donr like, i dont see how this is a "development" issue though as thats done "by design"
[05:31] <Jucato> hi imbrandon!
[05:31] <Tm_T> imbrandon: sorry, I'm bit tired ;(
[05:31] <imbrandon> lo Jucato
[05:31] <imbrandon> food time bbiab
[05:31] <Jucato> cute pic btw. of the birthday boy
[05:31] <imbrandon> :)
[05:31] <imbrandon> brb
[05:45] <Jucato> um.. question: will Krita be permanently removed from the default applications in Edgy?
[05:46] <Lure> Jucato: I suspect yes, but default apps will be discussed on next Kubuntu meeting
[05:46] <Jucato> (which I will attend ehehe!)
[05:47] <Jucato> I guess that's in light of the suggestion to include digiKam instead? oh well, wait till thursday :-D
[05:50] <Lure> Jucato: I would preffer digiKam before krita - it is for sure more needed by "general user" than krita
[05:51] <Jucato> Me, too. I thought that Krita put there because Ubuntu installs the GIMP :-D
[05:57] <kwwii> evening
[05:57] <Jucato> evening!
[06:03] <kwwii> rebooting, brb
[06:10] <kwwii> I assume that the "alternate" installation CDs are in text mode?
[06:11] <Riddell> kwwii: yes
[06:11] <kwwii> Riddell: cool, maybe that will work better on my mac :-)
[06:11] <Riddell> kwwii: what's wrong with the desktop CD?
[06:12] <kwwii> Riddell: it does not boot on my 2nd mac, and I don't wanna mess up my laptop
[06:12] <kwwii> i had the same problem with dapper
[06:13] <kwwii> funnily enough I get the same error messages on both macs, only my laptop somehow makes it through whereas the eMac doesn't
[06:15] <kwwii> wow, a 12 hour download
[06:25] <Tonio_> re
[06:25] <Tonio_> I'm sick of kdeprint
[06:26] <Tonio_> gnome-cups-manager works and not kdeprint, once again
[06:26] <Tonio_> it would be nice if canonical was testing kdeprint from time to time
[06:26] <Tonio_> I have the feeling only gnome is tested...
[06:26] <insanekane> hmm ..
[06:26] <insanekane> Tonio_: what kind of problem ?
[06:26] <insanekane> Tonio_: hehe, funny feeling :)
[06:26] <Tonio_> insanekane: kdeprint doesn't connect to cups
[06:27] <Tonio_> I'm trying to fix this
[06:27] <insanekane> Tonio_: hmm wierd ... is this in edgy ?
[06:27] <Tonio_> insanekane: yup
[06:28] <insanekane> Tonio_: scary
[06:28] <Tonio_> I'm unsable to click the "usb printer" button to set my printer
[06:28] <Tonio_> of course it works with gnome-cups-manager
[06:29] <insanekane> that sucks ...
[06:34] <Tonio_> I sometime have the feeling that if the 3 or 4 personns here were not testing everything, nobody from the ubuntu crew would care.........
[06:34] <Tonio_> I'm sick of this
[06:34] <insanekane> Tonio_: hmm
[06:35] <insanekane> Tonio_: I too :/
[06:35] <insanekane> Tonio_: but i guess they are doing their best
[06:35] <Tonio_> the question is now, is canonical supporting kde or not ?
[06:35] <Tonio_> officially yes, but in the real world, I don't think so
[06:37] <insanekane> Jucato: is it ?
[06:38] <Jucato> ehehe just thinking...
[06:38] <insanekane> Tonio_: actually, do you use tools to coordinate/automate testing the software ?
[06:38] <Tonio_> insanekane: nope
[06:38] <Tonio_> we should but we don't
[06:39] <insanekane> Tonio_: like writing unit tests ? or using that FrogLogic software for GUIs ?
[06:40] <Tonio_> insanekane: just a second........
[06:40] <insanekane> Tonio_: np ... i dont want to bother you when you are working :)
[06:41] <Tonio_> insanekane: no pb :) jsut that I'm trying to fix this
[06:41] <danimo> heya Tonio_
[06:41] <danimo> Tonio_: knetworkmanager stopped working with wifi :(
[06:42] <Tonio_> danimo: ah ?
[06:42] <Tonio_> works here
[06:42] <insanekane> danimo: sorry ... dont want to insult you or anything ... but that was funny :)
[06:42] <Tonio_> we didn't touch the package for long now
[06:42] <danimo> insanekane: hmmm?
[06:42] <insanekane> first kdeprint, then knetworkmanager ... i felt it was a strange situation
[06:43] <Jucato> wonder what's next?
[06:43] <danimo> Tonio_: here it only works with nm-applet
[06:43] <danimo> Tonio_: knm does not see any wireless networks
[06:44] <Tonio_> danimo: did you try to delete your knetworkmanagerrc eventually ?
[06:44] <danimo> Tonio_: nope
[06:44] <Tonio_> danimo: you may try this
[06:46] <danimo> Tonio_: odd, works now
[06:47] <Tonio_> danimo: ;)
[06:54] <Jucato> hehe...
[06:55] <fritsch> Jucato: the mixture between blue icons and "lila?" colors was not so friendly to me
[06:55] <Jucato> yeah... you can't change the fact that the icons are still dominantly blue... 
[06:56] <Jucato> and although purple is close to blue, they don't seem to mix well in this case...
[06:58] <Tonio_> _Sime: ping ?
[06:59] <Tonio_> _Sime: didn't you modify the usb:/ ioslave ? That can cause the issue for kdeprint I think
[07:07] <Tonio_> _Sime: I'm unable to click the "ltp or usb" button since kdeprint doesn't see the usb printer, while it works with gnome-cups-manager
[07:08] <Tonio_> looks like an ioslave
[07:35] <Tonio_> re
[07:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: I was looking at the multiple guidance power manager problem...
[07:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: I know it is a known issue (KUniqueApplication), but I can temporary provide a workarround with kds (do not restore guidance-power-manager).
[07:36] <Lure> Riddell (or any other Qt guru): I am looking into taking Amarok's OSD into kmilo for hotkey support; it is implemented with QPainter (icon+text), but we would need to add QProgressBar for volume/brightness - is it possible to compine QPainter and QProgressBar? how?
[07:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: want me to do this or are we waiting for power-manager to be fixed ?
[07:36] <Tonio_> Lure: hey :)
[07:36] <Lure> Tonio_: hi
[07:36] <Tonio_> Lure: is it you or _Sime that patched the media:/ and usb:/ kios ?
[07:37] <Lure> Tonio_: _Sime (and imbrandon prepared packages)
[07:37] <Tonio_> Lure: I have the feeling that causes an issue with kdeprint
[07:38] <Tonio_> Lure: okay I'll see this with _Sime then
[07:38] <Lure> Tonio_: I doubt that usb:/ was changed
[07:39] <Tonio_> Lure: we'll see :)
[07:39] <Lure> Tonio_: can you fix bug 30809 in k-d-s?
[07:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30809 in kdemultimedia "KsCD does not work out of box" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30809
[07:40] <Tonio_> Lure: hum........ probably
[07:40] <Tonio_> Lure: yes it is possible
[07:40] <Lure> Tonio_: does KsCD works for you out of box? It does not work on most laptops...
[07:40] <Tonio_> no problem
[07:41] <Tonio_> Lure: my cdrom drive simply fails in kde (sata drive) that's another issue........
[07:41] <zorgluuu> q. after releasing edgy, will the release strategy of kubuntu change for a more stable os ? aka releasing only if very well tested ? or the release strategy wont change ?
[07:41] <Tonio_> Lure: I must say I'm not a fan of that media:/ patch
[07:41] <Lure> Tonio_: why not? I like it a lot
[07:41] <Tonio_> it gives me a folder with a shortcut "cdrom" and "cdrom0"
[07:42] <Tonio_> that's not easier for the user to my view
[07:42] <Lure> Tonio_: this will probably go away with .hidden
[07:42] <Tonio_> not that much understandable
[07:42] <Lure> Tonio_: I think we still do not ship proper .hidden files for / and /media
[07:42] <Tonio_> Lure: probably
[07:43] <zorgluuu> any other place more suitable to have an answer to my question ?
[07:44] <Tonio_> Lure: the point is that when you insert a cd, the desktop entry that appears still goes to media:/hdc for example
[07:44] <toma> zorgluuu: your question is a bit vague
[07:44] <Tonio_> users will get lost in my opinion
[07:45] <toma> zorgluuu: we always try to release a stable os
[07:45] <Tonio_> Lure: don't you think ?
[07:46] <zorgluuu> toma: ok so the current dapper you got when you do 'apt-get upgrade' is the stable one ? 
[07:46] <Lure> Tonio_: this will also go away (redirected to /media) - I think we should just drom media:/ kioslave alltogether
[07:47] <toma> zorgluuu: what do you mean? dapper as it is released is pretty stable.
[07:47] <zorgluuu> toma: i see a lot of breaking by only upgrading package, i just suffered from one, so i may not be too calm now :) 
[07:47] <Tonio_> Lure: I don't understand, how do you want to drop media:/ completly ?
[07:47] <zorgluuu> toma: but im not there to bitch. so i get that the policy wont change once edgy is released
[07:47] <toma> zorgluuu: why dont you tell us what you did and what went wrong instead
[07:48] <Lure> Tonio_: why would someone need media:/ if everything is provided through /media?
[07:48] <zorgluuu> toma: i did an upgrade yesterday, and it broke my 3d with a 915gm intel
[07:48] <Tonio_> Lure: sure but how to make kde creating desktop entries using /media ?
[07:48] <zorgluuu> toma: now it is still accelerated according to glxinfo, but it is twice slower in practice
[07:48] <Lure> Tonio_: we can leave it for users that would type it in konq., but it is not good...
[07:49] <Tonio_> Lure: will the shortcut be removed or do you "beleive" it might ;)
[07:49] <toma> zorgluuu: it is impossible to test every setup, you are welcome to join the test team. 
[07:49] <Tonio_> just to be sure I don't prompt if not necessary
[07:49] <zorgluuu> toma: i tried 'system setting' -> display -> admin mode -> autodetect -> it produce the good parameters -> unable to save (all button greyed)
[07:49] <zorgluuu> toma: i do understand what are you saying :)
[07:49] <Lure> Tonio_: it is _Sime's call - but idea is that proper redirects to /media will solve non-KDE apps
[07:50] <Tonio_> Lure: I agree on that point
[07:50] <zorgluuu> toma: it is why i didnt want to explain the issue itself but just wanted to know if the policy will change
[07:50] <toma> zorgluuu: no, it is not to end the discussion, it is just to difficult to test all setups
[07:50] <zorgluuu> toma: as i said i do understand what are you saying :)
[07:51] <toma> zorgluuu: ;-) i'm not sure, Mark wrote something after the breakage of X
[07:51] <zorgluuu> i dont beleive you try to shut me up, simply i am fully aware that your test team is based on volonteers
[07:51] <toma> zorgluuu: maybe something like a staging area would be good
[07:51] <toma> zorgluuu: not sure what the idea is 
[07:52] <toma> maybe anyone else might be better informed
[07:52] <zorgluuu> i think it would be good to have like a middle ground
[07:52] <zorgluuu> dev - something - stable
[07:52] <zorgluuu> dev for people really on the edge
[07:52] <toma> has some similarities with debian ;-)
[07:52] <_Sime> Lure: Hi
[07:52] <_Sime> Tonio_: Hi
[07:53] <zorgluuu> something for people willing to test but would still be able to use their box :)
[07:53] <Tonio_> _Sime: hey ;)
[07:53] <Lure> _Sime: hi
[07:53] <zorgluuu> stable for 'i want it to work !!!' :)
[07:53] <Tonio_> _Sime: I was wondering if you also touched usb:/ protocol ?
[07:53] <_Sime> Tonio_: nope
[07:53] <_Sime> that issue with media icon on the desktop is known.
[07:53] <_Sime> I've been working on it this weekend.
[07:53] <Tonio_> _Sime: kdeprint is not working at the moment, impossible to click on "local lpt/usb printer"
[07:54] <Tonio_> _Sime: great ;)
[07:54] <Tonio_> _Sime: and what about the "cdrom" simlink ? is there a solution ?
[07:54] <Tonio_> 2 cdrom entries for me in /media
[07:55] <_Sime> Tonio_: it would be nice if you we could just delete the cdrom dir and symlink. CDROMs still work with out those two things.
[07:55] <_Sime> Tonio_: but I suspect that they must stay
[07:55] <Tonio_> appart from that I agree with lure that resolving the non-kde apps issue is a significant progress
[07:55] <_Sime> Tonio_: for apt or something.
[07:55] <Lure> _Sime: we could also just list them in .hidden
[07:55] <_Sime> Lure: the symlink can go in .hidden.
[07:55] <Tonio_> _Sime: why deleting the dir ?
[07:55] <zorgluuu> toma: ok lobby for middle stable :)
[07:55] <zorgluuu> see ya
[07:56] <Tonio_> is your patch mounting them here automatically ?
[07:56] <Tonio_> so that I only see the cdrom dir when a cd is inserted ?
[07:56] <_Sime> Tonio_: the dir can be made automatically when you insert a CDROM.
[07:56] <_Sime> Tonio_: just like with usb pens etc.
[07:56] <Tonio_> _Sime: great
[07:56] <Tonio_> _Sime: I'll look at the folders, if there is a way to get them removed
[07:57] <Tonio_> or renamed to .hidden files
[07:57] <_Sime> Tonio_: Yes, things get automounted more or less, even if you ask it to do nothing.
[07:57] <_Sime> Tonio_: standard media:/ is also "fast and loose" about mounting.
[07:57] <_Sime> Tonio_: it automounts on demand though.
[07:57] <Tonio_> _Sime: I just noticed that the "select action" feature doesn't work for me when I insert a cd
[07:57] <Tonio_> maybe that's just me
[07:57] <Tonio_> can someone confirm this or not ?
[07:58] <Tonio_> maybe it is a profile issue but I'd like to be sure :)
[07:58] <_Sime> my edgy should be quite clean now. So I can test that in a moment.
[07:58] <Tonio_> _Sime: thanks ;)
[07:59] <Tonio_> _Sime: my problem is that I'm playing with settings a lot (kds) so I never can be sure my profile isn't destroyed :)
[08:00] <_Sime> I've been trying to hack on and compile a copy of KDE here.
[08:00] <_Sime> and make it match the already hacked version that edgy uses.
[08:00] <_Sime> it has been kind of tricky testing stuff out.
[08:01] <_Sime> oooooh purple splash screen...
[08:02] <_Sime> I've been thinking about removing the whole "mounted/unmounted" concept from the GUI for removable media.
[08:04] <Tonio_> _Sime: yep that makes it quite complicated
[08:04] <Tonio_> I don't find the "select action" configuration thing in kcontrol.......;
[08:04] <Tonio_> grmpf
[08:10] <_Sime> Tonio_: the popup is not appearing when I insert a disk or usb pen. :-/
[08:10] <_Sime> Tonio_: I don't know why.
[08:10] <Tonio_> _Sime: there is a config dialog in kcontrol as far as I remember
[08:10] <Tonio_> I am not able to find it
[08:10] <Tonio_> _Sime: this feature is configurable
[08:11] <Tonio_> _Sime: do you know where ? because it is deactivable, so maybe kde default as just changed
[08:11] <_Sime> it is under "Notfications"
[08:11] <Tonio_> in systemsettings or kcontrol ?
[08:11] <_Sime> ss
[08:11] <_Sime> I didn't turn mine off though.
[08:12] <Tonio_> _Sime: hum, I'm testing something
[08:12] <Tonio_> It looks like the antialiasing fonts problem
[08:13] <Tonio_> _Sime: hum, nope, it is different... I cannot make it to work
[08:15] <Tonio_> _Sime: okay we have this problem to fix too :) I'll look at that after I managed to fix (if I do) the klipper problem
[08:16] <Tonio_> _Sime: can that problem be a consequence of your patch or not ?
[08:16] <_Sime> Tonio_: could be, although I did test things here first. :)
[08:17] <Tonio_> _Sime: hum, well, it would interesting to know if it is or not a consequence of that patch :)
[08:17] <Tonio_> _Sime: since you did it, probably better you test it before me
[08:18] <Tonio_> _Sime: can be an issue with kde 3.5.4 too.... I'l investigate
[08:19] <_Sime> Tonio_: I'm seeing the same kinds of weirdness that you are. I'll be investigating.
[08:19] <Tonio_> danimo: inserting a cd now gives me the icon on the desktop, looks like the issue was external to kde, probably hal
[08:19] <Tonio_> _Sime: thanks
[08:20] <Tonio_> Lure: I'll fix bug 30809 toonight
[08:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30809 in kdemultimedia "KsCD does not work out of box" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30809
[08:21] <Tonio_> _Sime: we probably need to define a complete testing procedure to widelly test kubuntu before any release, cause we're finding to many issues to me :)
[08:21] <_Sime> Tonio_: what else has been falling over?
[08:23] <Tonio_> _Sime: klipper crashes when you have set your parameters and relaunch it
[08:24] <Tonio_> but only when you launch it via the desktop file or alt + f2
[08:24] <Tonio_> not in konsole :)
[08:24] <Tonio_> _Sime: that's probably the funniest thing
[08:24] <Tonio_> _Sime: see bug 56377
[08:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56377 in kdebase "klipper crashes on login " [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56377
[08:46] <kwwii_> Riddell: same question, different channel
[08:56] <Tonio_> kwwii_: ping ?
[08:57] <Tonio_> kwwii_: isn't there a way to make the background stretched with the kdm theme ? the standard moodinkde theme does it, so I assume it is possible
[08:57] <Tonio_> kwwii_: that doesn't work with yours
[08:57] <kwwii_> Tonio_: yeah, I have to add pics that are large enough...it does scale it, but the pic is only 1600x1200
[08:58] <kwwii_> we need to add the scaling to the ksplash as well
[08:58] <kwwii_> unless Riddell has been busy and took care of it already :-)
[08:59] <kwwii_> my text mode download is going to take another 5 hours, so I cannot really check myself yet
[09:00] <Tonio_> kwwii_: sorry but I don't understand :)
[09:00] <Tonio_> my screen is 1280 800 and the image isn't scalled, I only see the topleft part of it
[09:01] <Tonio_> kwwii_: it does it with the moodinkde theme so I assume that's due to riddell's patch  ?
[09:03] <kwwii_> Tonio_: how big is your screen? (and/or maybe I changed it in the xml)
[09:03] <Tonio_> 1280x800 (laptop)
[09:03] <kwwii_> for now, it is better that it crops it, since ksplash does the same
[09:03] <kwwii_> ouch
[09:03] <kwwii_> I will look into that, thanks for mentioning it
[09:04] <Tonio_> kwwii_: no problem ;)
[09:04] <Tonio_> kwwii_: I'll change kds too to avoid that little blue screen just before the theme launches
[09:04] <Tonio_> it is easy to fix
[09:05] <kwwii_> hrm, at least my newest version should scale it
[09:05] <kwwii_> is the menu button wide or does it just fit the text in?
[09:05] <Tonio_> kwwii_: okay I'll let you know
[09:05] <kwwii_> strange question, but it'll tell me which version of the file you have
[09:05] <Tonio_> hum, I don't understand your last question
[09:06] <Tonio_> ;)
[09:06] <kwwii_> in KDM, there is a button which, in english says "menu"
[09:06] <Tonio_> yes, let me check
[09:06] <kwwii_> the newer version has a wider button
[09:07] <Tonio_> kwwii_: the button is a bit too big ;)
[09:07] <Tonio_> okay so I have the latest
[09:07] <kwwii_> ouch
[09:07] <kwwii_> that is the newest then
[09:07] <kwwii_> I guess it is a bug 
[09:07] <Tonio_> kwwii_: I mean it is wider, not "too much"
[09:07] <Tonio_> kwwii_: maybe yes
[09:07] <Tonio_> kwwii_: I'll look at the xml file eventually
[09:07] <kwwii_> I had problems setting the center of the pic to 50%x50%
[09:08] <Tonio_> it works with the moodinkde theme so I may find out what happens
[09:08] <Tonio_> kwwii_: and did you noticed that blue background that just appears one second ?
[09:08] <kwwii_> the file to look at is /usr/share/kdm/themes/kubuntu/kubuntu.xml
[09:08] <kwwii_> the bg is defined in the very first item
[09:09] <Tonio_> in fact we have to set the kdm background since we can see it just a second before ksplash launches
[09:09] <kwwii_> the blue background does not appear at all for me
[09:09] <Tonio_> kwwii_: hum, should depend on the speed of the computer$
[09:09] <kwwii_> and the platform, as well
[09:09] <Tonio_> kwwii_: anyway, that has to be set so I'll do it :)
[09:09] <Tonio_> it doesn't impact ksplash at all, so don't worry
[09:10] <kwwii_> you could try to set the x and y coordinate of the first pixmap item to 50%x50% and see if it works for you
[09:10] <Tonio_> kwwii_: hum, I don't have anyt problem with the background of the kdmtheme :)
[09:10] <Tonio_> kwwii_: you missunderstood me, it is with the background of the ksplash theme
[09:10] <kwwii_> my screen is 1440x900 and it tiled it really funky, for no good reason
[09:10] <Tonio_> moodin background
[09:10] <kwwii_> hehe
[09:10] <kwwii_> :P
[09:11] <Tonio_> no issues at all with kdm theme
[09:11] <kwwii_> yeah, as I said a while ago, we still need to do that
[09:11] <kwwii_> :p
[09:11] <Tonio_> kwwii_: but isn't the functionnality already in moodin ? it works with other moodin themes
[09:11] <Tonio_> kwwii_: Riddell's patch then ?
[09:11] <kwwii_> yepp, jonathan said it would not be hard
[09:11] <kwwii_> but I do not know if he did it yet
[09:12] <Tonio_> okay so his current patch causes this little issue :)
[09:12] <kwwii_> you have the newest stuff, it appears, so I guess not
[09:12] <Tonio_> yep, probably
[09:12] <kwwii_> his current patch is probably my stuff
[09:12] <kwwii_> which caused it :p
[09:12] <Tonio_> ah ;)
[09:13] <Tonio_> kwwii_: nope I was talking about a previous Riddell's patch :)
[09:13] <Tonio_> okay thanks very much kwwii_ ;) I have to go
[09:18] <kwwii_> have fun
[10:10] <stebbins> Does Anjuta run on kubuntu?
[10:17] <jdong_> stebbins: I don't see why it wouldn't
[10:19] <gnomefreak> stebbins: yes
[10:19] <gnomefreak> stebbins: kdevelop is "anjuta for kde"
[10:19] <stebbins> ok
[10:19] <gnomefreak> anjuta uses gtk libs because it was made for gnome
[10:20] <gnomefreak> so if you dont want the gtk libs and bases you should use kdevelop
[10:20] <gnomefreak> stebbins: these type of questions belong in #ubuntu or #kubuntu
[10:21] <stebbins> ok
[10:25] <danimo> imbrandon_: ping?
[11:35] <Tonio_> re
[11:37] <Tonio_> some day I wish a world without fucking humans wouldn't exist....
[11:46] <toma> ?
[11:46] <toma> you mean a world without humans would exist?