[12:09] <ne78> mjg59: i disable offscreen pixmaps manually, but still doesn't work here (with the debian xserver-xorg), it would be great if what you say is true, it would mean that debian could have a working compiz now
[12:12] <ne78> mjg59: what about the patches from (1:1.1.1-0ubuntu5) 7 Aug 2006 17:21:05 -0300 ?
[12:15] <mjg59> What about them?
[12:15] <mjg59> I still don't know what problem you're having
[12:16] <ne78> mjg59: i think it works because of them
[12:17] <ne78> mjg59: it's nice to see that ubuntu is more up to date than debian sid
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[12:20] <zul> hey keybuk
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[12:21] <ne78> Keybuk: are you the upstart developper ?
[12:21] <Keybuk> zul: heyhey
[12:21] <Keybuk> ne78: yeah
[12:22] <Riddell> Burgundavia: pong
[12:22] <Burgundavia> Riddell: I was going to ask you about SoC stuff, but I found what I needed
[12:23] <ne78> Keybuk: it's great project, i've been following the init replacements lately init-ng,launchd etc.., upstart seem to be really the way to go
[12:23] <mjg59> ne78: No, it works without them
[12:24] <ne78> Keybuk: did you noticed that the html mailman archive display some mail in base64 format on lists.netsplit.com ?
[12:25] <Keybuk> ne78: yeah, no idea why *shrug* mailman bug I guess
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[12:27] <ne78> mjg59: if you say so. So what is needed plain xorg 7.1, what version of mesa is needed ?
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[12:28] <mjg59> Whichever version of mesa is needed for the swrast code to build
[12:29] <mjg59> Probably recentish CVS, though 6.5.1 might be enough
[12:34] <ne78> mjg59: thanks for the info, i'll retry tommorow to see if it can be done with the current packages of debian sid
[12:35] <kristog> Keybuk: did you see #52922
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[12:40] <Keybuk> bug #52922
[12:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52922 in network-manager "libnm-util0 for network-manager on ppc does not work with wpa passphrases" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52922
[12:40] <Keybuk> no, I didn't see that bug
[12:40] <Keybuk> but I'm aware of it
[12:40] <Keybuk> I've heard dups, and I'm sure we patched it *shrug*
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[12:40] <kristog> Keybuk: no idea, didn't look in the ubuntu patches i've attached the debian patch
[12:41] <kristog> witch will fix it, don't use the upstream one reported in the bug since it's useless
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[12:41] <Keybuk> ok, well, the bug looks fine
[12:41] <kristog> which*
[12:42] <kristog> (cool i wrote witch../me should not study macbeth at 00.42)
[12:42] <Keybuk> heh
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[12:46] <Keybuk> bug #58769
[12:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58769 in network-manager "Gateway is never saved (edgy knot 2)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58769
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[12:54] <Seveas> mjg59, ping
[12:58] <mjg59> Seveas: Hi
[12:58] <Burgundavia> is there a good wiki page talking about how to test dapper-proposed ?
[12:59] <Seveas> mjg59, I don't know whether you've seen my mail from thursday, but I have some usplash patches for you (the things in that mail are implemented)
[12:59] <mjg59> Seveas: Ok, cool
[12:59] <mjg59> I've been a bit busy this weekend, I'm afraid - at a wedding
[12:59] <Seveas> heh, that's much better than usplash hacking ;)
[01:00] <Seveas> all is in a branch on launchpad, every feature committed separately
[01:00] <Seveas> let me know if something needs fixing 
[01:00] <mjg59> Ok
[01:00] <Seveas> The only thing really missing is ppc support, I still don't have one of those and the apple store wouldn't let me use one for testing ;)
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[01:18] <gnomefreak> jdub: ping
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[03:01] <zakame> hello
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[03:08] <Keybuk> hello
[03:08] <zakame> hi Keybuk :)
[03:10] <jdong> there's mr broke-my-hal :)
[03:10] <jdong> j/k
[03:11] <zakame> lol, /me suddenly reminded of shallow hal
[03:12] <zakame> eerie, just watched that yesterday
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[03:32] <Keybuk> jdong: still don't understand that one
[03:32] <Keybuk> at least we know what broke it
[03:32] <Keybuk> I just don't understand why that would break it
[03:32] <jdong> yeah, it still confuses the heck out of me, too
[03:32] <jdong> I'd like to do a bit more testing to confirm that's the culprit
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=== jdong installs upstart on his fresh coreduo install
[03:33] <jdong> brb :)
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[03:37] <jdong> Keybuk: you might be cleared of blame... I can't cause it to happen on my system now
[03:37] <jdong> the only difference between now and an hour ago were those few updates that landed in apt
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[03:37] <jdong> hmm
=== jdong utterly confused
[03:38] <jdong> the only possibly related update would be dbus 0.92-1ubuntu2
[03:39] <jdong> but the changelog entry is not too promising
[03:39] <slomo> jdong: nothing that could cause breakage changed there
[03:39] <jdong> slomo: I know :-/
[03:40] <jdong> I seriously did nothing more than dist-upgrade, then apply the events.d change Keybuk suggested, and rebooted
[03:41] <jdong> maybe the 2nd reboot is the charm :D
[03:41] <slomo> what change was this? :)
[03:41] <slomo> i ask because i wanted to reboot with upstart now ;)
[03:42] <jdong> slomo: are you experiencing any dbus trouble?
[03:42] <slomo> nope
[03:42] <jdong> lucky you :)
[03:43] <slomo> which evil things does dbus do to you? ;)
[03:43] <jdong> slomo: bug 58165
[03:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58165 in upstart "security policy error with hald after latest updates" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58165
[03:43] <jdong> the event.d thing is in there too
[03:43] <jdong> you can read my rapid rambling :)
[03:44] <jdong> it certainly doesn't happen without the help of upstart
[03:44] <jdong> but right now I can't reproduce it on my latest edgy box
[03:45] <slomo> hm, i'll see what happens after reboot :)
[03:45] <slomo> brb
[03:45] <jdong> same here
[03:45] <jdong> brb
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[03:46] <bddebian> Howdy
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[03:48] <jdong> well, it magically works now
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[03:52] <Burgundavia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news/2006-September/000052.html
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[03:53] <slomo> Keybuk: upstart is a bit unusable with initscripts that require user input ;)
[03:54] <Keybuk> jdong: you have "console output" in the event.d file?
[03:54] <Keybuk> slomo: I want to know how those were usable with usplash <g>
[03:54] <jdong> Keybuk: no, not on this box :-/
[03:54] <Keybuk> jdong: and it's all working happily?
[03:54] <jdong> yeah... :-/
[03:55] <Keybuk> heh
[03:55] <slomo> Keybuk: the initscript disabled usplash at the time it required input :P do you have any idea how this could be worked around with upstart? :)
[03:55] <Keybuk> what did apt update (/var/log/dpkg.log?)
[03:55] <jdong> Keybuk: I'm completely confused right now... when I get back home I'll try to straighten this one out
[03:55] <Keybuk> slomo: ah, we could grep for those and make them upstart jobs for edgy?
[03:55] <jdub> Burgundavia: thought -> why don't you guys use w3m/links to render the web page to text, so your text-only email looks nicer (and without all the moinisms)?
[03:56] <jdong> Keybuk: avahi, beagle, dbus
[03:56] <Burgundavia> jdub: never really considered it. I need to do some thinking about general process tomorrow, so I will add that to the list
[03:56] <slomo> Keybuk: the only one i know about is cryptsetup... shall i file a bug about it and subscribe you?
[03:58] <Keybuk> slomo: I believe there is one for cryptsetup?
[03:58] <Burgundavia> jdub: do you have a link about that? is this how dwn does it?
[03:58] <jdong> Keybuk: hmm, you think avahi could've been screwing with dbus?
[03:58] <Burgundavia> jdub: another idea would be not to send out the text at all, merely a link to the moin page, ala Fedora
[03:58] <Keybuk> jdong: no, I think it's dbus
[03:59] <jdub> Burgundavia: not a link, but man w3m/links/lynx/html2text etc will help
[03:59] <jdub> Burgundavia: also, you could send u-n as both html and text
[03:59] <Burgundavia> another idea
[04:00] <Keybuk> jdong: what version of dbus did you have before?
[04:00] <Keybuk> can you 'grep "upgrade dbus" /var/log/dpkg.log' for me ?
[04:00] <slomo> Keybuk: i can't find a bug... not on upstart and not on cryptsetup
[04:00] <jdong> keybuk:  upgrade dbus 0.92-1ubuntu1 0.92-1ubuntu2
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[04:01] <Keybuk> jdong: the changelog isn't revealing, I agree
[04:01] <Keybuk> what happens if you downgrade it to 1ubuntu1 again
[04:01] <Keybuk> does it break?
=== jdong tries
[04:02] <Keybuk> slomo: ah, Thom mailed the mail list
[04:02] <Keybuk> slomo: file a bug (on the ubuntu source) and I'll forward thom's mail to the bug too
[04:03] <slomo> Keybuk: on cryptsetup or upstart?
[04:03] <Keybuk> slomo: ooh, good question ... let's say cryptsetup and upstart :p
[04:03] <Keybuk> so file it on cryptsetup, and add upstart too
[04:03] <slomo> hehe ok :)
[04:03] <jdong> Keybuk: no, it doesn't break :-/
[04:04] <slomo> jdong: try rebooting... you still have the old, "new" dbus daemon
[04:04] <Keybuk> jdong: did you try a reboot?
[04:04] <jdong> no, but I restarted dbus :)
[04:04] <jdong> but fine, I'll reboot
[04:05] <slomo> Keybuk: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/cryptsetup/+bug/58794
[04:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58794 in upstart "doesn't deal with init scripts that require user input" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
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[04:07] <jdong> still no breakage
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[04:15] <Keybuk> jdong: hmm
[04:15] <Keybuk> what else got updated in that run (looking at dpkg.log)
[04:15] <jdong> as I said, a bunch of avahi, beagle, and dbus
[04:15] <Keybuk> also check "last reboot", had you rebooted in a while?
[04:15] <jdong> yeah
[04:15] <jdong> it was a few minutes prior to the dist-upgrade
[04:16] <jdong> avahi's gonna be a beast to downgrade, not in the mood for it tonight
[04:16] <jdong> I'll play with this one more tomorrow
[04:16] <Keybuk> heh
=== Keybuk blames slomo
[04:17] <jdong> :)
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[07:24] <pitti> Good morning ladies and gentlemen, aliens, pets, bots, and artificial intelligences!
[07:26] <imbrandon> moins pitti
[07:30] <pitti> hi imbrandon 
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=== pitti hugs Hobbsee 
[07:41] <Hobbsee> hey pitti!
=== Hobbsee hugs pitti in return
[07:41] <Hobbsee> pitti: i have a request
[07:43] <pitti> Hobbsee: go ahead
[07:43] <Hobbsee> pitti: the request sync script - can we get it to comply more with the current policy?
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[07:43] <pitti> Hobbsee: which is?
[07:44] <pitti> Hobbsee: (sure, I'm happy to adapt it)
[07:44] <Hobbsee> pitti: about having to have the ubuntu changes in there, etc.  and having to list the component of debian that it's in.
[07:44] <Hobbsee> pitti: there's a mail message on ubuntu-devel about the new policy
[07:44] <Hobbsee> pitti: TheMuso helped me get it working for a smtp server :) so i can use it!
[07:45] <zyga> pitti: hi, do language packs use bz2 on purpose (when creating debian packages)
[07:45] <pitti> Hobbsee: ubuntu changes as a diff?
[07:45] <pitti> Hobbsee: (sorry, I just returned from vac, my mail backlog is horrible)
[07:45] <pitti> zyga: yes
[07:45] <Hobbsee> pitti: yeah, fair enough.  i'll try to find the mail for you on the archives, if you like
[07:45] <pitti> would be nice
[07:46] <Hobbsee> pitti: how were the holidays?
[07:46] <pitti> Hobbsee: I do not think it's a good idea to attach a diff; they are potentially huuuge due to PO mangling etc.
=== Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee 
=== Hobbsee tickles Mithrandir in return, and stomps on his feet
[07:46] <pitti> Hobbsee: nice and relaxing; canooing, bicycling, tenting, staying in fresh air all the time :)
=== Mithrandir is already levitating and watches Hobbsee stomp the ground instead.
[07:47] <Hobbsee> hah
[07:47] <Hobbsee> pitti: surely not!  you mean you went...outside?  and...survived????
[07:47] <pitti> surprisingly, yes :)
=== mvo googles "fresh air"
=== pitti blows away the smoke from the bear gun
[07:48] <Hobbsee> mvo: hehe
[07:48] <pitti> mvo: it's that ugly smell when you open a window
[07:49] <Hobbsee> gah.  it's on u-d-a
[07:49] <Hobbsee> meaning i will *not* find it on u-d
[07:49] <Hobbsee> pitti: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000181.html
[07:51] <pitti> Hobbsee: ok, obviously I cannot automatically generate such a description
[07:51] <pitti> Hobbsee: a description of each of the Ubuntu changes (a bullet point list
[07:51] <pitti>       is fine, but copies of debian/changelog aren't)
[07:51] <Hobbsee> pitti: true.  even the ubuntu changelog entries would help, i guess.
[07:51] <Hobbsee> true that
=== pitti considers this a bit silly, though
[07:52] <Hobbsee> pitti: it wouldnt be a full replacement, as it was before, but it would be a help, i suspect
[07:52] <pitti> we will have lots of unnecessary work during the 'merge from Debian' phase
[07:52] <pitti> Hobbsee: for now I'll just add the Debian component
[07:52] <Hobbsee> pitti: yeah, exactly.  if i've done something wrong, which is quite possible considering the number of syncs i requested, i want to know what i got wrong, and why, not "lets punish everyone because a few people made a mistake"
[07:52] <pitti> Hobbsee: the Ubuntu changes should be added as a followup comment
[07:52] <pitti> so that the script can work fully automatically
[07:53] <Hobbsee> pitti: yes
[07:53] <Hobbsee> hey, yeah, that would be cool
[07:53] <Keybuk> pitti: I don't agree that there will be unnecessary work
[07:53] <Keybuk> during the merge from Debian phase, you've just worked out what the changes are
[07:53] <Hobbsee> "summarise the damned changes here"
[07:53] <Keybuk> as you've just decided that they can be dropped
[07:53] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: to write them out is painful
[07:53] <Keybuk> it's not 5s of work to quickly type them
[07:53] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, depends on the level of details you expect :)
[07:53] <Keybuk> pitti: bare minimum detail
[07:53] <Keybuk> a few words, or a line at most, per change
[07:53] <pitti> Keybuk: if it's 'PO file changes, all patches adopted', then it's easy
[07:54] <Keybuk> just enough to acknowledge that the requestor has actually read the damned diff
[07:54] <pitti> ok
[07:54] <Keybuk> which a frightening number of people weren't doing
[07:54] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: really?
[07:54] <Keybuk> some people actually had "ok to override ubuntu changes" in their sync request template!!
[07:54] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: was i one of those people?
[07:54] <pitti> Keybuk: well, requestsync adds this by default
=== pitti points out that he wrote that script entirely for his own use initially
[07:55] <Hobbsee> of course, by definition, the changes would be okay to overwrite, otherwise they wouldnt be using the request sync script.
[07:55] <pitti> Keybuk: I guess I'll take out this stanza then
[07:55] <Keybuk> I've seen many mails from you without that line
[07:55] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: HA HA HA HA HA HA
[07:55] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: theoretically, anyway
[07:55] <Hobbsee> :P
[07:55] <pitti> Keybuk: well, if there are no Ubuntu changes, this line won't be there of course
[07:55] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: that's what we wanted to prove :p
[07:56] <Keybuk> basically it got to the point where Colin and I were hand-checking every sync request for sanity
[07:56] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: you cant really prohibit people's stupidity
[07:56] <Keybuk> which is too much work for us
[07:56] <Hobbsee> true that
[07:56] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, I take out that line, since the description requires a followup comment anyway
[07:56] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: were the dodgy ones from particular people, or was that everyone?
[07:56] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: sadly the dodgy ones came from just about everybody
[07:57] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: ahhhh.  mind telling me which of mine i did wrong then, rather than just "some of them"?
[07:57] <Keybuk> no idea
[07:57] <Hobbsee> heh.  yes, me neither.  it seems that's where the problem is :P
[07:57] <Keybuk> I don't keep that kind of thing in my memory
[07:57] <Keybuk> I would have mentioned it at the time
[07:57] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: of course.  i'm more wondering if it was...
[07:57] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, i remember a few now.  damned wrong versioning
=== Hobbsee still gets caught with that, at times.
[07:58] <Keybuk> we all make mistakes
[07:58] <Hobbsee> true that
=== Hobbsee makes a note to actually learn the content before the next maths test, to avoid said mistakes
[07:58] <Keybuk> the change wasn't about blame
[07:58] <Keybuk> it was to try and speed up the sync queue again
[07:58] <Hobbsee> true that
[07:59] <Hobbsee> wasnt meaning that it was the brain
[07:59] <Hobbsee> warning:  Hobbsee has had about 6 hours of class straight, ending in a maths test.  brain is slightly fried.
[07:59] <Keybuk> heh
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[08:00] <Kagou> hi
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[08:02] <Keybuk> heh
[08:02] <Keybuk> looks like someone wiped the Planet Debian cache database
=== Hobbsee wonders if dbus has still broken everything.  or if it's only everything containing a nvidia card.
[08:03] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: "broken everything"?
[08:03] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: well, broken gdm/kdm
[08:03] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: mentioned it earlier
[08:03] <Hobbsee> but has a nvidia card, so that's likely the thing to blame.
[08:04] <Keybuk> ah, I have another "probably dbus" bug
[08:05] <Hobbsee> i decided that i didnt want to troubleshoot it in 20 mins, at uni, on batteries.
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[08:05] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: well not /all/ nvidia cards as i'm running latest dbus / kdm / nvida ( nv not binary )
[08:06] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: oh good
[08:06] <Mithrandir> I don't really see how dbus could break on one class of graphics cards?
[08:06] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i dont either.  
[08:07] <imbrandon> i'm thinking gnomefreak was having issues with the binary nvidia drivers and not dbus but i was afk and only read the logs
=== Hobbsee upgrades
[08:07] <imbrandon> moins Mithrandir
[08:08] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: so how did you perfect the skill of levitating, by the way?
[08:08] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: if i ever make it to a conference, i want to see it in person :P
=== imbrandon gets smore more mtdew^Wcoffee and starts the daily email checks
[08:08] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you, and since I like you, I won't.
[08:08] <imbrandon> hahaha
[08:08] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: haha.  right.
[08:08] <Mithrandir> 'morning, imbrandon 
[08:08] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i'd like to see you try to kill me, if you're on another continent
=== Hobbsee is unlikable.
[08:09] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I like three-eyed aliens! :-P
[08:09] <imbrandon> unkillable ?
[08:09] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: also, ICBMs.
[08:09] <imbrandon> haha
[08:09] <Hobbsee> ICBM?
[08:09] <Mithrandir> intercontinental ballistic missiles
[08:09] <imbrandon> inter cont blastic missle
[08:09] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hehe, right
[08:09] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: ahhhhh.....
[08:10] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: no unlikable.  i'm a psycopathic bitch, after all :P
[08:10] <imbrandon> ah lol
[08:10] <imbrandon> icmb , think long pointy stick with a grenade on the end ;)
[08:10] <Hobbsee> mmm...fun...
[08:10] <imbrandon> icbm*
=== Mithrandir twiddles his thumbs while this workstation upgrades to edgy.
=== Hobbsee drops some icecubes down Mithrandir's back to distract him
=== imbrandon twidles along with Mithrandir as squashfs squishes the fs ...
[08:12] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: eyh!  Here I'm just recovering from a cold and you try to kill me?
[08:12] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: now, if i were trying to kill you, then surely i'd be using a ICBM for such a thing.  not just mere icecubes.
[08:13] <Keybuk> icecubes don't work on Tollef
[08:13] <Keybuk> they're warm compared to where he comes from
=== Hobbsee sticks them down Keybuk's back instead.
[08:13] <Hobbsee> dont make me find something else...
[08:13] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: that's why you southerners keep complaining about the heat each time you visit? :-P
[08:14] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: their just wusses
[08:14] <Hobbsee> :P
[08:14] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: perhaps one of the next conferences needs to be on the equator or something.  they'd get used to it pretty quick :P
[08:15] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: well, equator gives you humidity as well.  Here, we're more in the "make it hot, but not humid" way of doing things.
[08:15] <imbrandon> *cough* Kansas City *cough*
[08:16] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: ahhh...nice.  remind me to move up there someday.
[08:16] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: Kansas moved to the equator now?
[08:17] <imbrandon> heheh no but it would be cool to have one in the middle of the US ( not to mention i live here ) hehe
[08:17] <imbrandon> brb 
[08:17] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:17] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I seem to remember having to climb snow drifts last time I visited
[08:18] <Hobbsee> "oh no, it's moving countries again!"
[08:18] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: oh, true, but that was in winter.  And it wasn't cold.  Just snowy.
[08:18] <Mithrandir> (which means it's wet. :-/)
[08:18] <Keybuk> imbrandon: rumour has it that the next will be in SF
[08:18] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: it was cold for me
[08:18] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: you live in a country which freezes and panics when you get 2cm of snow on the roads.
[08:19] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: a fair point
[08:21] <dcode> imbrandon: I support a middle US con too
[08:21] <dcode> I'm from StL
[08:21] <dcode> but in KC all the time
[08:25] <Keybuk> imbrandon: well known for its international hub airport? :p
[08:25] <imbrandon> Keybuk: yea it ( we ) have a huge intl airport 
[08:25] <imbrandon> KCI ( kansas city intl airport hehe )
[08:26] <imbrandon> and its dead smak in the middle of the US
[08:26] <imbrandon> dcode: yea i'm in STL all the time too, I have some family there about 45 min outside east stl
[08:27] <dcode> I'm actually currently going to school in Rolla
[08:27] <dcode> but my family is from just south of St. Louis
[08:27] <imbrandon> cool
=== tormod [n=tormod@80-219-112-71.dclient.hispeed.ch]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] 
[08:27] <imbrandon> Keybuk: but SF would be cool too ;)
[08:28] <Keybuk> imbrandon: confs tend to be held in places convenient for not just us to get to, but any particular group we're aiming to be involved
[08:28] <Hobbsee> oh fun.   there is a rumoured location now
[08:28] <imbrandon> true ;)
[08:29] <Keybuk> or placed back-to-back with other conferences, etc.
[08:29] <imbrandon> umm but Keybuk whats in SF heh ?
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[08:29] <Keybuk> imbrandon: most tech companies?
[08:30] <imbrandon> ahh true alot are there
[08:30] <imbrandon> well close to there
=== Hobbsee is jealous.
[08:31] <imbrandon> welp i'll be at the next one , even if i dont manage to get sponsored ( as long as its in the US , travel wont be terrible expensive )
[08:31] <imbrandon> plus if its in SF my wifes family is close, two birsd with one stone , i can "drop her off" hehe
[08:31] <imbrandon> birds*
[08:32] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: jealous of?
[08:32] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: you all going off to a conference
=== jdub tries to decide between dell d420 and ibm x60
[08:32] <pradeeper> Hi guys, I need some bit information about Ubuntu remastering.... I know that you guys are busy but if somebody can tell me where I can get some help on remastering stuff... that's a great help!
[08:32] <imbrandon> heya jdub, for ?
[08:32] <Hobbsee> jdub: what's the d420 retailing for?
[08:32] <imbrandon> pradeeper: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization/6.06
[08:33] <Mithrandir> jdub: thinkpad > * :-)
[08:33] <jdub> Hobbsee: just under $3000 with my customisations
[08:33] <imbrandon> wow
[08:33] <Hobbsee> jdub: wow.
=== imbrandon sticks to his apple lappy(s)
=== Hobbsee wonders about the customisations, for that price
[08:33] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: it happens several times a year :-/
[08:33] <jdub> but you can get one for AUD$2398
[08:34] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: heh.  so you have to go, and dont like it.  that'd be right.
=== ew32 is now known as ew32_away
[08:34] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: apples don't have three mouse buttons.
[08:34] <jdub> apples are also not ultraportable
[08:35] <imbrandon> Mithrandir: mine does ( just any old usb mouse )
[08:35] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: external mice are a pain, imo.
[08:35] <imbrandon> jdub: well my 14in ibook isnt too bad to lug arround
[08:35] <imbrandon> Mithrandir: true i done use them but it is an option ;)
[08:36] <imbrandon> dont*
[08:36] <Mithrandir> pitti: do you have any thoughts on dropping the -ppds as we did for -desktop just before knot-2?
[08:36] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: I prefer machines with a proper number of mouse buttons built-in.
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[08:38] <imbrandon> Mithrandir: hehe maybe so but apples are just so slick imho for lappys ( i dont like the desktops much ) but all my laptops are apple
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[08:38] <pitti> Mithrandir: I saw the change, but I cannot really comment on it; if it works (i. e. foomatic has the matching backend for dynamic PPD generation), so much the better :)
[08:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: dynamic PPDs were one of 1.2's major new features, so it seems appropriate to make use of it
[08:39] <Mithrandir> pitti: it worked in one out of one of my tests.
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[08:40] <pradeeper> thanks imbrandon, I have done some work based on that... but I need more information, for example, I notice that ~ubuntu users is created on the fly when booting the Ubuntu liveCD. if I want to change some settings on ubuntu user then how can I do that?
[08:40] <pitti> Mithrandir: 'Ubuntu achieves 100% success rate in printing tests'
[08:40] <Mithrandir> pitti: it also looks like cupsys-common needs a versioned replaces on cupsys; I got file overlap problems when upgrading from dapper now.
[08:40] <Mithrandir> pitti: do you want to handle that or should I?
[08:40] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'll test it a bit as well, but Malone will find it out soon enough :)
[08:40] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'll do it in Debian's and Ubuntu's svn branches
[08:41] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks, that saves me filing a bug. :-)
[08:41] <imbrandon> pradeeper: thats covered on the bottom of that howto , also you can check with the guys at nUbuntu ( they do alot of custom stuff with the livecd )
[08:41] <pitti> Mithrandir: it already has Conflicts: cupsys (<< 1.2.1-4); same version for R:, I guess
[08:41] <Mithrandir> pitti: sounds sane, yes.
[08:41] <pradeeper> thanks imbrandon, let me check on that
[08:42] <pradeeper> btw, what is nUbuntu?
[08:43] <imbrandon> an unoffical spinoff
[08:44] <imbrandon> www.nubuntu.org i think , dont know terribly much about them 
[08:45] <pradeeper> oh!
[08:46] <pradeeper> well... nubuntu.org is not working for me :(
[08:46] <imbrandon> s/.org/.com/g
=== imbrandon is afk a bit bbiab
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[08:51] <jdub> looks like the dell wins - has touchpad and clit (not jsut the clit like the ibm), and the mediabase has a dvi port (ibm one doesn't)
[08:52] <jdub> plus i will probably never get over the position of esc and fn on the ibm ;-)
[08:52] <mvo> jdub: it has only a 1.8" hdd IIRC though (the ibm has a 2.5")
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[08:53] <jdub> mvo: yeah, that's a bit of a bummer
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[08:53] <jdub> are there any other laptops / docks that have dvi?
[08:54] <Keybuk> the lack of a touchpad on the Lenovo is what continually prevents me from buying one
[08:54] <mvo> when I tested the x60 I was unhappy with the hdd though, it kept vibrating under my right palm (not very strong, but constant)
[08:55] <mvo> but maybe I got a monday model or something
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[08:56] <jdub> i was very surprised at the price of hp laptops
[08:56] <jdub> $$$!
[08:56] <neuralis> yeah, it's unfortunate. they're excellent little machines, though.
[08:56] <Hobbsee> jdub: good or bad?
[08:57] <jdub> high
[08:57] <Hobbsee> ah
[08:57] <Keybuk> neuralis: are they?
[08:57] <Keybuk> I'm totally unimpressed by my nc4010
[08:57] <Keybuk> I hope the newer HPs are better
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[08:58] <jdub> $2800 for the D420 + mediabase and a few other bits
[08:58] <neuralis> Keybuk: i had a nc4010, didn't like it all that much, moved to nc4200, quite happy with it
[08:58] <jdub> $3000 with 1GB ram, but cheaper if i buy elsewhere
[08:59] <Keybuk> it's the build quality I'm most upset with
[08:59] <Keybuk> this thing just hasn't lasted
[08:59] <neuralis> Keybuk: the 4200 strikes me as much better built, but i haven't used the 4010 for long enough to give you a definitive opinion
[08:59] <zyg1> jdub: that's a hell lot of money for a laptop
[09:00] <Keybuk> neuralis: how long have you had the 4200?
[09:00] <G0SUB> pitti: hello
[09:00] <pitti> Hi G0SUB 
[09:00] <neuralis> Keybuk: lemme look
[09:00] <G0SUB> pitti: PM?
[09:00] <jdub> zyg1: i don't buy el-cheapo laptops
[09:00] <Keybuk> neuralis: have you had any problems with the battery life on it?
[09:00] <pitti> Mithrandir: fixed cupsys in both places, Ubuntu uploaded
[09:00] <pitti> Mithrandir: thanks for spotting this
[09:01] <jdub> plus it's australian pesos
[09:01] <pitti> G0SUB: sure
[09:03] <neuralis> Keybuk: had it about a year, no battery problems at all yet
[09:03] <zyg1> jdub: what is el-cheapo? 1.5K for a portable is already alot, but 3K ?!?
[09:04] <zyg1> you can always buy identical laptop for half 3 months later
[09:04] <Keybuk> neuralis: this one'
[09:04] <Keybuk> neuralis: this one's charger has stopped working properly ... it incorrectly reports battery charges, and doesn't fully charge them, etc.
[09:04] <Keybuk> and won't charge through the travel adapter at all
[09:04] <neuralis> eep
[09:05] <neuralis> i think that's a one-off problem; a friend of mine inherited my 4010, and has had no battery problems with it
[09:05] <jdub> zyg1: where do i find a 12" ultraportable for $1.5K?
[09:05] <Keybuk> neuralis: I'd believe that, except a friend's different HP model has had exactly the same set of problems I've had with this
[09:05] <lifeless> jdub: samsung ?
[09:05] <neuralis> Keybuk: maybe my 4010 is a one-off working one..
[09:05] <jdub> lifeless: they don't have a comparable laptop
[09:06] <lifeless> no ? crap
[09:06] <lifeless> malcc has a q10+ which is nice
[09:06] <maswan> jdub: I think toshiba just introduced one that had a bit better resolution, and good battery time, at a low weight
[09:07] <slomo> Keybuk: postrm of upstart is broken it seems... at least from -2 to -3
[09:07] <Hobbsee> maswan: the trouble with toshibas is that some models like overheating.
[09:07] <zyg1> jdub: you could try 13" macbook (not so ultraportable but close)
[09:07] <maswan> Hobbsee: Ah, that doesn't sound fun.
[09:07] <jdub> zyg1: very heavy, still not that cheap
[09:07] <Keybuk> slomo: oh, broken how?
[09:07] <Hobbsee> maswan: oh, and the fans run most of the time, which makes them distracting
[09:07] <maswan> What about the smallest fujitsus?
[09:07] <Mithrandir> Apple don't have any sub-2kg machines, do they?
[09:07] <maswan> Hobbsee: ack
[09:07] <zyg1> jdub: heavy ack but it's 1K$, about 1.1K with tons of ram from other vendor
[09:08] <zyg1> Mithrandir: not anymore
[09:08] <jdub> maswan: ah - didn't think of those, good point. wonder if any have dvi.
[09:08] <Mithrandir> zyg1: hmm?  Even the 12" powerbook was 2kg, wasn't it?
[09:08] <zyg1> Mithrandir: 12" ibook was less AFAIR but I may be wrong
[09:08] <slomo> Keybuk: without any output from the script it said that the old returned with error code 2 and then tries the new one... and fails because of "exec format error"
[09:08] <Mithrandir> zyg1: nope, 12" white ibook was 2.1 or 2.2.
[09:09] <jdub> zyg1: a macbook doesn't suit the requirement, and is $2000 anyway
[09:09] <maswan> jdub: no clue, I think I ruled them out due to no trackpoint
[09:09] <Keybuk> err
[09:09] <zyg1> jdub: 2000? huh? mb is 1000$ 
[09:09] <zyg1> jdub: unless you want black one :P
[09:09] <jdub> zyg1: note that i've mentioned AUD numerous times
[09:09] <maswan> jdub: I haven't really looked at notebooks seriously since back when I got my x40 though, and I think I'll get another year out of that
[09:09] <zyg1> Mithrandir: I'm pretty sure one of the first models was sub 2KG
[09:09] <zyg1> AUD?
[09:10] <jdub> australian dollars
[09:10] <Mithrandir> maswan: yeah, same with me.. going to look at x70 or x80 when that comes out, though.
[09:10] <zyg1> ahh
[09:10] <zyg1> jdub: then 3000 AUD is not so scary ;-)
[09:11] <maswan> Mithrandir: I just hope that they finally get clued in on sticking a 1400x1050 on those without adding extra weight.
[09:11] <Keybuk> slomo: oh, meh, postrm is buggy -- add #!/bin/sh -e to the top :p
[09:11] <Mithrandir> maswan: I'm guessing they'd rather go for 1280x800 or thereabouts.
[09:11] <slomo> Keybuk: oh... i better go back to sleep :) i didn't notice that it was missing although i looked at the file ;)
[09:11] <maswan> Mithrandir: Sure, but I'd prefer my version. :)
[09:12] <Keybuk> slomo: is just that file, so explains why it didn't show up in my upgrade test
[09:12] <Mithrandir> maswan: I think they won't be able to do the "without adding extra weight" bit, though.
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[09:13] <maswan> Mithrandir: Possibly. I guess I probably will have to compromise, I was aiming for twice the number of pixels, half the weight, twice the battery life. It seems like I can perhaps get 1-2 out of those.
[09:14] <Mithrandir> maswan: two out of three isn't that bad.
[09:14] <Keybuk> slomo: fix uploaded
[09:14] <Keybuk> right, nap time
[09:14] <maswan> Mithrandir: Yeah, as long as the others are at "not (significantly) worse" at least
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[09:19] <maswan> Mithrandir: Btw, the reason I mentioned the toshiba is that it seemed to be about 50% better in all three. So now I just wait for one more year for them to get twice as good. ;)
[09:20] <Mithrandir> maswan: I've heard the toshiba build quality isn't that great.
[09:20] <Mithrandir> maswan: that's the thing I really, really love about my thinkpad.  It can take on all the abuse I throw at it.
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[09:21] <jdub> Mithrandir: even the fn/esc abuse? :)
[09:22] <jdub> doesn't look like fujitsu wins
[09:22] <Fujitsu> Not me, I hope :P
[09:22] <jdub> Fujitsu: are you ultraportable? do you have a DVI output? :)
[09:22] <Fujitsu> Sure...
=== Fujitsu tries to fit a DVI connector somewhere.
[09:23] <Fujitsu> Hm.
[09:23] <maswan> Mithrandir: Yeah, mine too. Well, the battery is getting old, so I need to either replace that or the laptop in a year or so.
[09:23] <ivoks> pitti: wb :)
[09:23] <pitti> ivoks: thanks
[09:24] <Mithrandir> maswan: I've pondered switching to my 6-cell by default, but then, I don't use my battery that much _anyway_, so I'm saving that for travel, I think.
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[09:24] <maswan> Mithrandir: I just want a larger screen on it, without sacrificing the other parts (too much)
[09:24] <dholbach> good morning
[09:25] <zyg1> dholbach: morning
[09:25] <maswan> Mithrandir: Oh, I only have one battery. And it is down to half according to acpi.
[09:25] <zyg1> dholbach: are we initerested in FOSS fonts that replace times new roman?
[09:26] <dholbach> zyg1: it's best to write to ubuntu-devel@ about that
[09:26] <dholbach> zyg1: but sounds interesting (i'm no expert)
[09:26] <Mithrandir> maswan: my 4-cell has begun acting weirdly and doesn't report charge correctly any more.  Not that I really care since I have the other one too.
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[09:27] <jdub> we are interested in destroying the last vestiges of times new roman
[09:27] <maswan> Mithrandir: but then, I'm nto very surprised, since it has been on almost constantly since I got it
[09:27] <Mithrandir> maswan: mine too.  I've taken to suspending it at night now, though
[09:27] <zyg1> jdub: I don't understand?
[09:28] <jdub> zyg1: times new roman is a plague on taste and typography
[09:28] <maswan> Mithrandir: I've been thinking of that, but it's annoying to restore all those ssh sessions.
[09:28] <Mithrandir> jdub: it's nice if you're the New York Times and need to put as much text on each page as possible.
[09:28] <Mithrandir> maswan: heh, true, but then, I don't have a zillion open all the time; I rather open new ones as I go.
[09:29] <jdub> Mithrandir: new york times doesn't use times new roman!
[09:29] <jdub> Mithrandir: it uses imperial
[09:30] <maswan> Mithrandir: I'm quite used to having sessions open in a couple of places, home workstation and movie player up in the leftmost corner, etc, etc
[09:30] <zyg1> jdub: it's used by websites though :/
[09:30] <Mithrandir> jdub: it used to, though.  Or rather, it used to use times.
[09:36] <jdub> Mithrandir: 'times' doesn't refer to the nyt, it refers to 'the times' (uk newspaper) :-)
[09:38] <Mithrandir> jdub: hmm, I was fairly sure it was designed for the NYT, ICBW however.
[09:39] <pitti> Hobbsee: requestsync script updated
[09:39] <Mithrandir> and I don't have any books of typography here which would support my claim or not.
[09:39] <Hobbsee> pitti: woo!
[09:39] <Hobbsee> pitti: thanks!
[09:39] <pitti> np, only trivial changes
[09:39] <jdub> Mithrandir: nyt used all kinds of stupid shit, 'times' is much older
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[09:41] <jdub> "
[09:41] <jdub> "Science: Steve Irwin Dead
[09:41] <jdub> " pure slashdot comedy
[09:42] <imbrandon> jdub: nah its true , news.com.au has a story on it too
[09:42] <imbrandon> afaik
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[09:42] <StevenK> And Channel Nine for that matter.
[09:42] <jdub> ...
[09:42] <jdub> "science"
[09:42] <jdub> nutballs
[09:42] <imbrandon> oh
=== imbrandon missed that 
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[09:44] <slomo> fabbione: ping?
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[09:45] <tepsipakki> how come there aren't new meeting logs on the wiki since late July?
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[10:02] <slomo> infinity: could you please kill the mono build on sparc? it got a SIGILL and just stalled instead of failing :(
[10:02] <Fujitsu> Great!
[10:02] <Fujitsu> Sounds like fun.
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[10:04] <seb128> "Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy/universe/binary-i386/Packages.bz2  MD5Sum mismatch
[10:04] <seb128> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy/main/source/Sources.bz2  MD5Sum mismatch"
[10:04] <seb128> is that known?
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[10:10] <infinity> slomo: It's already over that.
[10:10] <slomo> infinity: oh ok...
=== slomo files a bug upstream
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[10:42] <dholbach> hellas ogra!
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[10:42] <dholbach> ogra: new gnome-power-manager for you
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[10:43] <zyg1> why the hell does objcopy use over 500MB of ram after some app crashes/is killed?
[10:44] <pitti> zyg1: if you have a huge app crashing (with a huge coredump), apport uses objcopy to shrink the coredump size
[10:44] <zyg1> pitti: the app didn't use even quater of that 
[10:45] <zyg1> I killed objcopy and kernel barfed :/
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[10:46] <zyg1> kernel oops
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[10:47] <pitti> zyga: do you have a record of the oops?
[10:47] <pitti> zyga: could be a bug in the crash dump helper
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[10:53] <zyg1> hm, how do I file a bug on the kernel again?
[10:54] <zyg1> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+package/linux-image-2.6.17-6-686 # 'bugs' link  is not active
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[10:54] <Fujitsu> File it on linux-source-2.6.17
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[10:57] <zyg1> thanks
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[11:12] <sivang> morning
[11:12] <Burgundavia> morning sivang
[11:15] <sivang> Burgundavia: hey corey, how are you ?
[11:15] <Burgundavia> not bad
[11:15] <Burgundavia> got UWN 12 out, realized my mistakes
[11:17] <Burgundavia> got my inbox under 500 for the first time in 4 weeks
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[11:20] <Mocka> Hello
[11:20] <Mocka> My name is Kid Rock.
[11:20] <Mocka> How are you all today?
[11:21] <sivang> Burgundavia: nice
[11:21] <Mocka> sivang do you work on ubuntu?
[11:21] <sivang> Burgundavia: if you want to see some of the new GUI for hubackup, there's a bzr branch I'm working on
[11:21] <Burgundavia> ok, cool
[11:21] <Burgundavia> can't honestly say I willb e able to find time
[11:21] <sivang> Mocka: I contribute yes, but I am not employee if that what you're asking.
[11:21] <Burgundavia> but I will try
[11:22] <Mocka> ok i cant decide what distro to use
[11:22] <sivang> Burgundavia: okay, cool :-) just FYI sort of thing, I recalled you were asking me about it progress during the last cycle
[11:22] <sivang> Mocka: This is more of a user oriented question, I'm sure in #ubuntu there will be a lot of people that can help this dilemma 
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[11:23] <Burgundavia> Mocka: we might be slighly biased in here ;)
[11:25] <sivang> Mocka: and what Burgundavia just said :-)
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[11:26] <Mocka> Ubuntu is very new...
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[11:27] <Burgundavia> well, that was interesting
[11:27] <Burgundavia> hey heno
[11:27] <heno> Burgundavia: hey!
[11:28] <sivang> hey heno , 'sup?
[11:30] <heno> hey sivang 
[11:31] <carlos> Riddell, pitti: ping
[11:31] <pitti> carlos: pong
[11:31] <carlos> Riddell, pitti: https://launchpad.net/bugs/58526
[11:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58526 in rosetta "Missing upstream translations for koffice in edgy" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[11:31] <carlos> we need to find a final solution for that problem....
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[11:32] <pitti> carlos: is it a real problem that koffice-i18n is in main? if so, let's just promote it
[11:32] <carlos> I did the manual import with Dapper because was too late to implement something, but I don't think it would scale...
[11:32] <Burgundavia> carlos: one thing to be careful with "final solution" is an engilsh term for the holocaust and is thus not used very much
[11:32] <pitti> oh, it's koffice-l10n now
[11:32] <carlos> pitti: I think the main problem was just that the packages would be empty
[11:33] <pitti> right
[11:33] <pitti> I don't know whether we can have the source in main, and all the debs in universe
[11:33] <carlos> Burgundavia: I see, 'nice' term....
[11:33] <pitti> but it should work somehow
[11:34] <carlos> pitti: yeah. Please, tell me if that's not possible so we think on other ways to fix it
[11:35] <carlos> pitti: should I assign you that bug?
[11:35] <pitti> carlos: oh, let's promote it
[11:35] <carlos> well, to get translations in Rosetta we need a new upload...
[11:35] <carlos> Riddell: could you do it?
[11:35] <pitti> carlos: I don't have that power, though, please subscribe ubuntu-archive
[11:36] <pitti> carlos: oh, I can do a no-change upload after the promotion, of course
[11:36] <carlos> pitti: that's good enough
=== pitti wonders what happened to wiki.u.c. - am I the only one who cannot connect to it?
[11:37] <Burgundavia> pitti: it was up for me just a second ago
[11:37] <carlos> pitti: I don't need any notification, the files will be handled by Rosetta directly, what I mean is that if is not possible to have the source in main and all binaries in universe, just tell me it to find another solution ;-)
[11:37] <pitti> carlos: right, but I think having the source in main is the cleanest one
[11:38] <carlos> pitti: me too
[11:38] <pitti> carlos: anastacia will complain, but we can ignore that
[11:39] <carlos> ok
[11:40] <Kamion> um
[11:40] <Kamion> I'm not really happy with something we have to permanently ignore
[11:40] <Kamion> it's ok for now, but I want to be able to get anastacia empty for edgy
[11:40] <pitti> Kamion: can we promote just koffice-i18n-en to main and leave the rest in universe?
[11:41] <Kamion> sure, with some suitable comment in the seeds
[11:41] <pitti> erm, -en doesn't exist, but any other language
[11:41] <pitti> -engb
[11:41] <pitti> Kamion: ok, I'll put it into supported then
[11:42] <Kamion> ok, want me to promote that now?
[11:42] <pitti> Kamion: that would be nice
[11:42] <Kamion> done, will be visible after the next publisher run as usual
[11:42] <pitti> ok, I do the seed change and the rebuild
[11:43] <carlos> Kamion, pitti: thanks guyes
[11:43] <carlos> guys
[11:43] <pitti> Connection error: Unable to connect to SSH host bazaar.launchpad.net:None:
[11:43] <pitti> grrr
[11:43] <pitti> I can't access the wiki, nor bazaar.l.n
[11:44] <carlos> pitti, Kamion: Same problem with k3b-i18n
[11:44] <carlos> https://launchpad.net/bugs/58556
[11:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58556 in rosetta "New upstream translations of k3b not imported to Rosetta" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
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[11:45] <pitti> meh
[11:45] <Kamion> k3b-i18n only has one binary package
[11:45] <Kamion> (so it's easier, I guess)
[11:46] <pitti> well, it would be another useless and empty package in main
[11:46] <pitti> but we can live with that, I guess
[11:47] <doko> pitti, Riddell: kdegraphics contains a copy of xpdf?
[11:47] <pitti> Kamion: ok, I'll seed/rebuild it as well (once I can connect again)
[11:47] <pitti> doko: yes, but we ported it to poppler at the last conf
[11:47] <Kamion> pitti: I've promoted it
[11:47] <pitti> doko: i. e. the copy is not used any more
[11:47] <pitti> Kamion: thanks
[11:48] <Kamion> ok, ubiquity makes a lot more sense when I turn it *this* way up
[11:49] <Riddell> doko: it does but it's nt used
[11:49] <doko> ahh, ok
[11:50] <carlos> pitti: I just remembered that we took no action for those packages because we were supposed to import universe for Edgy...
[11:51] <carlos> pitti, Kamion: Thanks for the fast action
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[11:59] <heno> dholbach: ping
[11:59] <dholbach> heno: pong
[11:59] <heno> dholbach: Hi! Can you help with getting this into universe? https://launchpad.net/people/onboard/+branch/onboard/main
[12:00] <heno> ?
[12:00] <dholbach> heno: i'll make a note
[12:00] <dholbach> heno: today and tomorrow is gnome 2.16 - so i'll be busy
[12:00] <heno> I assume it needs to go there before it can go in main
[12:00] <dholbach> heno: i'll try to shove it in at some time in between
[12:00] <heno> dholbach: right
[12:01] <heno> dholbach: or if you know of any MOTUs with spare time that would work too :)
[12:01] <dholbach> #ubuntu-motu :-)
[12:01] <dholbach> maybe Luke?
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[12:02] <heno> I tried #u-motu already, but I'll try again :)
[12:02] <heno> Despite all my prodding Luke has not yet applied to become a motu AFAIK
[12:02] <heno> It's already packaged, just needs review and upload
=== heno gives #u-motu another go
=== ogra wonders if he did something wrong ... thats the first time the gnome-power-manager patches all applied straight away ...
[12:07] <pitti> Riddell: ok, k3b-i18n and koffice-i18n-engb are now promoted and seeded; do you have the current packages on disk to do a quick no-change upload?
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[12:27] <fabbione> slomo: pong?
[12:28] <pitti> hey fabbione!
[12:28] <slomo> fabbione: seems like we have a problem with mono on sparc :(
[12:28] <slomo> fabbione: http://bugzilla.ximian.com/show_bug.cgi?id=79270
[12:28] <Ubugtu> Ximian bug 79270 in JIT "SIGILL on Linux/sparc" [Unknown,New]  
[12:28] <fabbione> hey pitti 
[12:29] <fabbione> slomo: i am in vacation... will be back next monday
[12:29] <fabbione> slomo: also.. davem is not around now
[12:29] <slomo> fabbione: oh ok, didn't know this. shall i write him a mail or will you care for everything after you're back from vacation?
[12:30] <fabbione> slomo: either you write us a mail or remind me once i am back
[12:31] <slomo> fabbione: ok, i'll remind you on monday... enjoy your free week :)
[12:32] <Riddell> pitti: why koffice-i18n-engb?
[12:32] <pitti> Riddell: well, it's as good as any other language :)
[12:32] <fabbione> slomo: thanks :)
[12:32] <pitti> Riddell: we just need an 'excuse' to keep the source in main
[12:32] <pitti> Riddell: without anastacia bitching
[12:32] <Kamion> Riddell: (germinate doesn't understand keeping one source in main without any binaries)
[12:32] <pitti> Riddell: and I thought that English speaking people will least likely search for translation packages
[12:33] <Riddell> pitti: fair enough, I'll upload
[12:33] <pitti> Riddell: thanks; both packages?
[12:33] <Riddell> pitti: yep
[12:33] <pitti> great
[12:34] <Riddell> what's incharge of making nsswitch.conf again?  it needs to have mdns4 in it for avahi
[12:35] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog ~ > dpkg -S /etc/nsswitch.conf
[12:35] <Mithrandir> base-files: /etc/nsswitch.conf
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[12:36] <slomo> Riddell: base-files... but read the debian bugreports about why it was removed again before please
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[12:51] <doko> Kamion: are syncs from testing to dapper-proposed possible?
[12:57] <Kamion> doko: I don't think so, sorry - sync-source doesn't understand pockets (-proposed)
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[01:00] <geser> whom to talk to get a fix in dapper-updates?
[01:01] <pitti> geser: primarily, the bug tracker
[01:01] <pitti> geser: then, asking here is fine
[01:02] <geser> it is bug 58564
[01:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58564 in php4-yaz "php4-yaz won't install (broken dependency)" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58564
[01:02] <geser> could someone review the fix and upload it to dapper-updates?
[01:03] <pitti> geser: I added a dapper task
[01:03] <pitti> geser: for the review/fix, can you please ask in #ubuntu-motu or just assign the bug to MOTU?
[01:04] <geser> will do, thanks
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[01:10] <pitti> doko: cdbs uploaded
[01:12] <dholbach> ogra: you rock
[01:12] <doko> pitti: thanks
[01:12] <ogra> dholbach, thanks for the reminder :)
[01:12] <dholbach> ogra: anytime :)
[01:21] <Lathiat> Riddell: libnss-mdns
[01:25] <Kamion> sladen: I don't think you need to explain to the Soyuz team what sync-source is ... :-)
[01:25] <Kamion> though thanks for the bug
[01:32] <Mithrandir> pitti: how can I get to the debug symbols from our builds?
[01:34] <pitti> Mithrandir: not yet, unfortunately
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[01:34] <pitti> Mithrandir: ATM, the ddebs are just thrown away; infinity and I have a plan to store them
[01:34] <Mithrandir> pitti: so the embedded core dumps aren't very useful yet?
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[02:05] <pitti> Mithrandir: right, not terribly much ATM
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[02:07] <seb128> pitti: could you move the dump after the plain text informations, so one don't need to wait on its browser to load it to read the backtrace? ;)
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[02:16] <ajmitch> Kamion: ping
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[02:25] <Kamion> ajmitch: hi
[02:25] <ajmitch> Kamion: just wanting to get a UVF exception for f-spot 0.2.0
[02:25] <ajmitch> which is in sid now
[02:26] <Kamion> ajmitch: could you mail the upstream NEWS entries (or changelog if that doesn't exist) and the Debian changelog entries to cjwatson@ubuntu.com and mdz@ubuntu.com?
[02:26] <ajmitch> will do
[02:27] <Kamion> thanks
[02:30] <ajmitch> sent, hopefully it gets through (have been having mail problems)
[02:31] <slomo> pitti: would it be possible to let apport recognize which mono applications was used instead of making each application bug a mono bug? :) i would assume that there is the same problem for python
=== ajmitch wishes apport could capture a good mono backtrace as well
[02:32] <slomo> yes, most of the time the output of the application is more useful than the apport information :(
[02:35] <Mithrandir> mvo: gnome-app-install still seems to be missing its dependency on python-gdbm
[02:37] <_ion> Great, a new f-spot. I really hope it is accepted.
[02:38] <tseng> of course it will be
[02:38] <tseng> as the old one doesnt work, and its one of our edgy talking points
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[02:49] <pitti> seb128: I can certainly do that, yes
=== Hobbsee waves to all
=== seb128 hugs pitti
[02:49] <pitti> slomo: let me think about it
[02:50] <slomo> pitti: we need apport plugins :)
[02:52] <pitti> slomo: specs appreciated :)
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[02:56] <pitti> slomo: can you please file an apport bug with the essential bits of the report?
[02:56] <slomo> pitti: sure
[02:56] <pitti> slomo: i. e. everything but the core?
[02:56] <pitti> slomo: (or just point to another bug which has a report)
[02:57] <pitti> slomo: I have to do some other stuff and I don't want to forget about this
[03:02] <slomo> pitti: bug #58859
[03:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58859 in apport "Better support for mono programs needed" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58859
[03:03] <pitti> slomo: thanks
[03:03] <pitti> slomo: indeed, we need some kind of hook
[03:03] <pitti> slomo: something that maps a re pattern to an additional probe
[03:03] <pitti> slomo: but that smells like edgy+1
[03:04] <pitti> slomo: we already had that special case for ubiquity (python)
[03:04] <jono> anyone here know about adding a feed to planet ubuntu? I am getting errors :(
[03:04] <pitti> it should be fairly interesting to generalize this
[03:04] <zyg1> jono: any more information?
[03:04] <slomo> jono: ask jdub... afaik he cares for the planet
[03:05] <slomo> pitti: and it would prevent unnecessary work of re-assigning the bugs to the correct packages ;) we already had many bug reports like the f-spot one
[03:05] <jono> zyg1, yeah I am running bzr checkout sftp://jonobacon@bazaar.launchpad.net/~planet-ubuntu/config/main planet-ubuntu but getting:
[03:05] <jdub> not anymore, it's bzr maintained
[03:05] <jono> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: sftp://jonobacon@bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eplanet-ubuntu/config/main/
[03:05] <ajmitch> jono: got python-paramiko?
[03:05] <pitti> slomo: oh, the 'wrong package' bug is important, we'll figure something out
[03:06] <jono> ajmitch, yep
[03:06] <pitti> slomo: I meant the 'additional probes for python/mono specific stack traces'
[03:06] <pitti> slomo: particular packages might have particular additional information they are interested in
[03:06] <slomo> pitti: ah ok :) yes, that would only be a bonus ;)
[03:06] <pitti> slomo: e. g. we could do a per-package hook and then call all hooks from the dependency chain
[03:06] <pitti> slomo: but that's edgy+1
[03:06] <slomo> pitti: btw, why are there still some apport reports that don't contain any stacktrace at all?
[03:07] <jono> hmmm
[03:07] <mvo> Mithrandir: I wil have a look
[03:07] <pitti> slomo: if the process' cwd is not writable for the process
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[03:07] <pitti> slomo: BenC and I discussed an alternative kernel behaviour which would rectify this
[03:07] <pitti> slomo: e. g. notification-daemon does chdir('/'), and many daemons o
[03:08] <pitti> s/o$/do/
[03:08] <slomo> pitti: ok... because without a stacktrace it is really useless most of the time :/
[03:08] <pitti> slomo: thus they cannot dump core
[03:08] <slomo> pitti: i don't think it's possible to get everything the application printed to stderr/stdout?
[03:09] <pitti> slomo: there is no stdout/stderr in the kernel crashdump helper
[03:09] <slomo> pitti: often it would be useful to see the last few lines that were printed by the application before it exploded :/
[03:09] <Kamion> jono: you need to be a member of the planet-ubuntu team (for most people, that's indirectly achieved by being in ubuntumembers)
[03:09] <pitti> slomo: dreamer! :)
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[03:10] <pitti> slomo: yeah, we totally need that 'look back into history' apport plugin
[03:10] <jono> Kamion, right, how do I get added ?
[03:10] <Kamion> jono: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
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[03:11] <slomo> pitti: how could this theoretically work? where is the output so we can get it after a crash happend? :)
[03:11] <jono> thanks Kamion 
[03:12] <pitti> slomo: from the process' perspective it was sent out to a file descriptor and is irrevocably lost
[03:12] <pitti> slomo: you could ask all running shells and terminals to save their scrollback buffer :)
[03:12] <slomo> evil
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[03:18] <Hobbsee> pitti: looks good, thanks.  pity it didtn pick up the debian changelog on krename though
[03:19] <pitti> Hobbsee: you have to wait a bit until changelogs.d.n. catches up
[03:19] <pitti> (a day)
[03:19] <Hobbsee> pitti: ah okay...
[03:19] <Hobbsee>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/smtplib.py", line 306, in connect
[03:19] <Hobbsee>     raise socket.error, msg
[03:19] <Hobbsee> socket.error: (111, 'Connection refused')
[03:20] <Hobbsee> gah.  i had that working before.
[03:20] <pitti> Hobbsee: a local MTA is love, my darling
[03:20] <Hobbsee> pitti: i've never been able to figure it out enough to get it to behave.
[03:21] <pitti> Hobbsee: if you have a version that talks to ubuntu's smtp server, I'll happily adopt that, of course :)
[03:21] <Hobbsee> pitti: TheMuso helped me fix it so that it was talking to my mail.bigpond.com server.
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[03:23] <Hobbsee> pitti: got it :)
[03:24] <Hobbsee> pitti: what was the problem of getting it to talk to ubuntu's smtp server?
[03:24] <pitti> Hobbsee: I never bothered :)
[03:24] <pitti> Hobbsee: all my boxes have a nicely configured local MTA
[03:24] <Hobbsee> pitti: what should the address be?
[03:24] <Hobbsee> pitti: and do you need to authenticate, etc, for it?
[03:25] <Hobbsee> (gmail is not a nice smtp server to try to authenticate too)
[03:25] <Hobbsee> -o
[03:25] <pitti> Hobbsee: no idea
[03:25] <Hobbsee> pitti: hmm okay.  didnt even know ubuntu had a smtp server.
[03:25] <pitti> ~$ dig MX launchpad.net|grep 10
[03:25] <pitti> launchpad.net.          10783   IN      MX      10 fiordland.ubuntu.com.
[03:26] <pitti> Hobbsee: I guess you don't need auth for @ubuntu targeted domains, and it won't relay other mail anyway
[03:26] <pitti> Hobbsee: just try it out :)
[03:27] <Hobbsee> pitti: trying now.  didtn come back with an error message, but we'll see if it hits the bugtracker.
[03:30] <Hobbsee> pitti: woo!  it works!
=== pitti hugs Hobbsee 
=== Hobbsee hugs pitti 
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[03:31] <Hobbsee> pitti: http://rafb.net/paste/results/ZwAnme83.html
[03:32] <pitti> Hobbsee: so the only change is stating the SMTP server in s = smtplib.SMTP() ?
[03:32] <Hobbsee> pitti: and deleting a line, yeah
[03:32] <pitti> Hobbsee: deleting?
[03:33] <Hobbsee> pitti: s.connect() and s.connect() change to being s.quit()
[03:33] <Hobbsee> ie, the last section is:
[03:33] <Hobbsee> s = smtplib.SMTP('fiordland.ubuntu.com')
[03:33] <Hobbsee> s.sendmail(myemailaddr, to, mail)
[03:33] <Hobbsee> s.quit()
[03:33] <Hobbsee> that's the only change
[03:34] <pitti> Hobbsee: you mean 's.close()' change to 's.quit()'?
[03:34] <pitti> Hobbsee: and the s.connect() can be dropped? strange
[03:34] <Hobbsee> yep
[03:34] <Hobbsee> pitti: TheMuso fiddled with that section, and got it working.  he gets the credit
=== Hobbsee just tried changing the smtp server.
[03:34] <pitti> Hobbsee: ok, I'll test that here as well
[03:35] <pitti> Hobbsee: if it works, I'll put that into the official script
[03:35] <Hobbsee> pitti: :D
[03:35] <pitti> Hobbsee: thanks!
[03:35] <Hobbsee> pitti: not a problem :)
[03:35] <Hobbsee> pitti: now i can request scripts with that from uni too!
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[03:52] <Kamion> Mithrandir: so, regarding bug 50319, I don't really see a problem with just doing user creation before running target-config hooks
[03:53] <Kamion> I think we should probably do locales, user, target-config, everything else
[03:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir: testing this now ...
[03:54] <Hobbsee> pitti: you're not an archive admin, are you?
[03:54] <pitti> Hobbsee: no, I'm not
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[03:54] <pitti> Hobbsee: look at my badges :)
[03:55] <Hobbsee> pitti: hehe.  i might have to.
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=== Hobbsee was just looking for someone to poke libgii/libggi thru NEW
[03:55] <Kamion> I did libgii earlier
[03:55] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sounds like a good idea
[03:55] <Hobbsee> seeing as i've got a few packages sitting here that depend on the new version
[03:55] <Hobbsee> Kamion: excellent, thanks :)
[03:55] <Kamion> libggi isn't in NEW
[03:55] <Hobbsee> libgii then.
[03:56] <Hobbsee> yes, they're playing silly buggers with the naming.
[03:56] <Kamion> was just a soname bump basically
[03:56] <hikenboot> greetings--been trying to remove none-essential packages from the live cd...it appears that package ubuntu-live installs office...is this also required package in order to get the live cd to work as an installer or to run from cdrom?
[03:56] <Hobbsee> Kamion: that's the one.
[03:56] <Kamion> hikenboot: "office"? (no such package)
[03:56] <Hobbsee> gah
=== Hobbsee goes to look more
[03:57] <hikenboot> open-office
[03:57] <hikenboot> and language packs
[03:57] <Kamion> hikenboot: no
[03:58] <hikenboot> what i found was that i removed some package...list of about 40 of them that caused it to no longer have the run from live cd feature..I am trying to figure out which package caused this
[03:58] <Kamion> that would be ubiquity*
[03:58] <Kamion> if you mean install from live CD
[03:58] <hikenboot> yes thats what i mean
[04:01] <hikenboot> the ones i removed also caused gnome-system-monitor gnome-volume-manager gparted hal-device-manager gnome-netstatus-applet python2.4.-gnome-extras python-uno to be removed..are any of these packages critical?
[04:01] <hikenboot> i would think hal-device-manager would be critical
[04:01] <pitti> hikenboot: no, h-d-m is harmless
[04:01] <hikenboot> not sure about the python thgoh
[04:02] <ogra> g-v-m might be something you want though
[04:02] <thom> gparted you probably want
[04:03] <Kamion> hikenboot: gparted is required for ubiquity
[04:04] <hikenboot> thanks in that case i will just restore x-window-system-core, xbase-clients, gparted, gnome-volume-manager
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[04:18] <hikenboot> thanks for your help guys...I am creating the cd now..we will see if it runs ok
[04:19] <hikenboot> ah one problem..i removed the packages but did not purge them...is there some directory I should empty or should I start over?
[04:20] <Kamion> just either reinstall them or use dpkg --purge, depending on the desired result
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[04:21] <hikenboot> ah reinstall them then purge them the right way or dpkg --purge the packages to purge just the packages..thanks
[04:21] <jdong> so, has anyone ever tried installing ubuntu to a dvd+rw before?
[04:23] <hikenboot> jdong I heard they are working on making ubuntu so that it will run from a rw dvd and actually save settings on the dvd...is that what you mean?
[04:23] <Kamion> Mithrandir: mind if I change casper to use sudo instead of su? su's argument handling has changed and was always pretty suboptimal for arguments containing spaces anyway
[04:24] <jdong> hikenboot: no, more like mkfs.ext2 /dev/scd0; then rsync my ubuntu install onto it :)
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[04:24] <hikenboot> oh ...sorry I was going to give you a link to that project I was refering too
[04:25] <jdong> hikenboot: I'm just being reckless here :)
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[04:33] <Kamion> Mithrandir: this is working, so I'm just going to commit it; feel free to shout if you object, obviously ...
[04:34] <Mithrandir> Kamion: su-sudo> sure, sudo's fine with me.
[04:34] <Mithrandir> Kamion: please make casper depend on sudo, then
[04:35] <Kamion> done
[04:35] <Kamion> the patch bug 57620 looks applyable?
[04:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57620 in casper "incompatible regex in is_usb_device" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57620
[04:35] <Kamion> s/bug/in bug/
[04:36] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm not sure we have egrep in the initramfs?
[04:38] <Mithrandir> Kamion: actually, I wonder how that has ever worked.  I can't see grep in the initramfs
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[04:42] <Kamion> it probably never did work ...
[04:42] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I tested it and it worked for me.
[04:42] <Kamion> want me to add [e] grep?
[04:43] <Kamion> hmm, no, grep is in the initramfs
[04:43] <Mithrandir> Kamion: anyway, I'll poke that bug later and see what's up with it since I'm going to do casper hacking the rest of the week
[04:43] <Kamion> rather, it's in busybox initramfs
[04:43] <Kamion> busybox-initramfs. oh I give up
[04:43] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog ~ > gzip -dc < /boot/initrd.img-2.6.17-6-amd64-k8 |  cpio -t  | grep grep
[04:43] <Kamion> perhaps none of the initramfs hooks copy it in
[04:43] <Mithrandir> 41067 blocks
[04:43] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog ~ >
[04:43] <Kamion> yeah
[04:43] <Mithrandir> it is?
[04:43] <Mithrandir> am I a fool, then?
[04:43] <Kamion> it's in the busybox-initramfs package, but I think those links need to be explicitly copied
[04:44] <Mithrandir> yeah, or created on startup
[04:44] <Mithrandir> maybe they are?
[04:45] <Mithrandir> oh well, you can change it to "busybox egrep"; that should work
[04:45] <Mithrandir> I'm off for a nap now. :-)
[04:46] <Kamion> yeah, busybox-initramfs doesn't seem to do the symlink farm thing
[04:46] <Kamion> I'll leave this one to you - I'm not in a position to test it, and I'm most concerned with fixing ubiquity-related things anyway
[04:48] <Mithrandir> ack
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[04:56] <janimo> pitti: hi, could you look at gxine when you next allocate time for reviews?
[04:56] <janimo> we'd like to replace xfmedia with it in xubuntu
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[05:14] <Spads> zul: ping
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[05:44] <pitti> janimo: hi
[05:44] <pitti> janimo: I can
[05:45] <janimo> pitti: thanks
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[05:57] <pitti> till: hello! welcome to the channel
[05:57] <cbx33> hmmm anyone a gconf expert here
=== cbx33 is having an episode :p
[05:57] <jdub> cbx33: ask your question, no need to ask to ask :-)
[05:58] <cbx33> sorry jdub, SOP I suppose....
[05:58] <cbx33> well
[05:58] <cbx33> I'm writing a patch for Pessulus
[05:58] <cbx33> so we can use it with the Student Control Panel in edubuntu
[05:58] <cbx33> I need to edit another users gconf key
[05:58] <cbx33> I'm root so permissions isn't an issue
[05:58] <cbx33> but my problem is whenever I save a key....it creates the file as root
[05:59] <cbx33> and gives it permission 700, so no normal user can read it
[05:59] <cbx33> originally I planned to get roun this by chowning the files after the write
[05:59] <jdub> cbx33: are you using the gconf api, or gconftool-2?
[05:59] <cbx33> but gconf caches the writes
[05:59] <cbx33> gconf api - the python bindings
[05:59] <cbx33> so that wasn't an option
[05:59] <cbx33> do you have any ideas?
[05:59] <jdub> you could sudo gconftool-2, depending on how disgusting you think that is :)
[05:59] <cbx33> well that's ok
[06:00] <cbx33> but
[06:00] <cbx33> hmm
[06:00] <cbx33> you mean sudo it to the user it is supposed to be running as?
[06:00] <cbx33> i suppose that's doable seeing as the gcontool binary isn't a gui
[06:01] <cbx33> my initial idea way way back was to run pessulus under the sux wrapper
[06:01] <jdub> you might want to ask vuntz 
[06:01] <cbx33> I'm in conversation with vuntz
[06:01] <cbx33> and he approved my chown idea
[06:01] <cbx33> but i just tested and it doesn't work
[06:02] <cbx33> because the gconf writes are delayed
[06:02] <jdub> yeah
[06:02] <cbx33> otherwise it'd be fine
[06:02] <cbx33> guess I'll have to sudo gconftool....not a very nice way to do it
[06:02] <cbx33> but I can't think of any other way
[06:02] <jdub> keep talking to vuntz tho :)
[06:02] <cbx33> oh I have been
[06:03] <cbx33> but he's been really busy with the latest gnome release
[06:03] <cbx33> and won't have much time
[06:03] <cbx33> over the nxt few days
[06:03] <cbx33> I have to get this ready for FF
[06:03] <cbx33> which doesn't give me long
[06:03] <cbx33> thanks jdub I'll look into it
[06:06] <janimo> pitti, for gnome-cups-manager is anyone who tried sending something upstream? They have a few changes since the release in ubuntu
[06:06] <pitti> janimo: I tried in the past, but it's dead upstream, so I stopped sending patches
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[06:06] <janimo> I'd like ot make a few changes and I wonder if I should increase our debian/patches dir and file patches in LP or make a bzr branch first
[06:07] <pitti> janimo: it's not bzr'ized ATM
[06:07] <janimo> hub committed at least occasionally and he used to hang around here as well
[06:07] <janimo> I sent a mail too but to no avail
[06:07] <pitti> janimo: for now debian/patches is the way to go
[06:07] <janimo> pitti, ok
[06:07] <pitti> janimo: of course, if you feel like it, feel invited to send our patches upstream :)
[06:08] <janimo> pitti, ok. At least from gnome-system-tools maintainer I got a promise
[06:08] <janimo> so it may happen with this as well, although I am not sure if there are other distros using g-c-m?
[06:09] <pitti> not the big ones
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[06:24] <jono> is AIGLX working with i810 cards?
[06:25] <mjg59> By "i810" do you mean "i855"?
[06:25] <mjg59> If so, yes
[06:25] <mjg59> i810 itself is probably a bit slow, but given that it's a P3 chipset...
[06:28] <jdub> mjg59: dude, i'm getting a(nother) dell!
[06:28] <thom> jdub: why.oh.why?
[06:29] <jdub> thom: D420 + MediaBase == sweet ultraportable with desktop DVI
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[06:30] <mjg59> Ha
[06:30] <mjg59> I keep forgetting my Mac doesn't actually /have/ a DVD writer
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[06:31] <jdub> got beta 2 or RC 1?
[06:31] <mjg59> RC1
[06:31] <mjg59> Tch
[06:32] <mjg59> Going to take about an hour to copy over via wireless
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[06:35] <mjg59> Go go ethernet
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> does anyone know why lib64gcc1 is installed on 32-bit x86
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[06:53] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: in case the 32-bit x86 is really a 32-bit x86-64?
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[06:54] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk:  I have a 32-bit ubuntu on 64-bit CPU
[06:54] <jdong> wow, ntfs-3g really works!
[06:54] <bluefoxicy> the kernel doesn't know how to execute 64-bit programs
[06:54] <jdong> is it possible to get some packages for edgy universe?
[06:54] <jdong> builds fine with edgy fuse
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[06:56] <jdong> Keybuk: whatever was causing my dbus gripes is gone now... if that's the case with the other dude in the bug report, the ticket can be closed
[06:57] <Keybuk> ok, will ask nafallo
[07:00] <jdong> upstart's still runnin' like a charm :)
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[07:02] <slomo> same here :)
[07:02] <Keybuk> I'm waiting for Kamion to get back before doing something very unwise ;p
[07:02] <jdong> lol
[07:04] <thom> Keybuk: that sounds remarkably... restrained of you
[07:04] <slomo> Keybuk: would it be possible to fix cryptsetup before you do that unwise thing? :)
[07:05] <Keybuk> slomo: no, that'll get fixed when I do the rootfs changes
[07:05] <Keybuk> I may just set the console output stuff back on though
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[07:10] <o_cee> anyone who knows when vmware-player will be usable again? someone said last week the modules where going into linux-restricted instead, but i haven't seen that happen yet..
[07:11] <jdong> in dapper or edgy?
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[07:15] <o_cee> jdong: edgy
[07:15] <o_cee> jdong: sorry about the delay, got a call.
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[07:18] <jdong> o_cee: in edgy, we're gonna have to wait for updated binaries from vmware
[07:18] <jdong> they need to recompile against a newer hal
[07:19] <jdong> so, your guess is as good as mine as to an ETA :-/
[07:19] <o_cee> jdong: dang, okay..
[07:19] <jdong> sorry about the delay... gaim sucks as an IRC client
[07:19] <jdong> :)
[07:19] <o_cee> hehe
[07:20] <o_cee> are the vmware files runnable under some other emulator? like qemu?
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[07:24] <sladen> o_cee: IIRC, qemu and generate and load vmware images natively  I think
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[07:24] <o_cee> sladen: allright, will check it out, thanks
[07:24] <jdong> o_cee: you might want to buy a conroe extreme and a large cup of coffee first, though :)
[07:25] <o_cee> jdong: heh, that bad? :)
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[07:26] <jdong> qemu is not the fastest thing ever
[07:26] <jdong> it's bearable on my core duo T2300....
[07:26] <jdong> I've had to use it to test ubuntu livecd's when vmware was not an option
[07:26] <o_cee> hrm, p4 3ghz probably won't do then..
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[07:27] <jdong> o_cee: you are gonna have to be patient.. and don't expect any interactive performance out of it
[07:27] <o_cee> jdong: just need to get to my accounting software really, heh
[07:28] <jdong> o_cee: you're gonna love your mouse framerate... I guarantee it :)
[07:28] <jdong> get that coffee
[07:28] <jdong> or save up for a conroe extreme... that's always nice to have
[07:28] <o_cee> looking forward to it :)  heh yeah
[07:28] <o_cee> would be nice
[07:28] <jdong> builds firefox in a matter of minutes :)
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[07:40] <jdahlin> dholbach: ping
[07:41] <dholbach> jdahlin: hellas
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[07:47] <jdahlin> dholbach: hello!
[07:47] <jdahlin> dholbach: is it too late to request the inclusion of a package in edgy?
[07:47] <seb128> jdahlin: what package?
[07:47] <seb128> jdahlin: for universe it should be fine
[07:47] <jdahlin> dholbach, seb128: specifically, I'd like to see python-psycopg2 (58864 in launchpad) to be included in edgy
[07:47] <dholbach> jdahlin: no, (i guess it's supposed to live in universe)
[07:48] <jdahlin> I'm not sure if python-psycopg is in main or universe
[07:48] <seb128> main
[07:49] <dholbach> jdahlin: and what is python-psycopg2? is that the new unstable line?
[07:49] <seb128> jdahlin: no issue to have the new version with a different source package to universe though
[07:49] <seb128> dholbach: cf the bug he pointed
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[07:49] <jdahlin> dholbach: it's the new stable branch, the old one is not actively maintained
[07:50] <seb128> jdahlin: any reason to keep both? Are they incompatible?
[07:50] <jdahlin> I just got an upstream bug report closed because it's fixed in the newer branch
[07:50] <jdahlin> seb128: they're incompatible yes, but parallel installable
[07:51] <dholbach> http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=sourcenames&version=all&exact=1&keywords=psycopg2
[07:51] <dholbach> it's in debian already
[07:51] <seb128> let's ask for a sync then
[07:51] <dholbach> jdahlin: i'll download, testbuild it and file a sync-request bug
[07:53] <jdahlin> dholbach: thanks!
[07:53] <dholbach> anytime!
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[07:54] <jdahlin> dholbach: haw haw haw
[07:54] <dholbach> :-D
[07:54] <jdahlin> dholbach: debian version is slightly old btw, 2.0.4 vs 2.0.5
[07:54] <dholbach> jdahlin: i'd prefer to get it in like this first, then do an update
[07:55] <jdahlin> dholbach: cool
[07:55] <dholbach> jdahlin: i made a note to look at the new version
=== jdahlin awaits edgy
[08:03] <Mithrandir> jdahlin: 52 days to go
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[08:15] <pitti> Kamion: how is the apport-ubiquity bonding doing? anything that I should modify?
[08:17] <pygi> sivang, poke? can we get it in universe this week pls? :)
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[08:20] <DaSkreech> What's the command to reprogram ubotu?
[08:20] <pygi> DaSkreech, you use forget, then add factoid
[08:20] <DaSkreech> ok thanks
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[08:39] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: that seems like ages
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[08:44] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: it does.
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[08:44] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: do you run edgy on your amd64 monster yet?
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[08:48] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: not yet, though I suspect the time is close
[08:48] <Keybuk> why?
[08:48] <ivoks> hi
[08:48] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I just had my amd64 machine fail to start X because it had loaded nvidia.ko version 71XX, which is utterly ancient, so I wondered if you'd seen the same.
[08:48] <Mithrandir> I switched to upstart today, but apart from that haven't done anything which should have gotten me such an old driver.
[08:48] <Keybuk> how is such an old driver even on your system?
[08:48] <Mithrandir> no idea.
[08:48] <Mithrandir> I didn't think it was. :-P
[08:49] <pygi> Keybuk, I think this scdbackup problem should be solved by Thomas, this has nothing to do with upstart :P
[08:49] <Keybuk> where did you get the version from?
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[08:49] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: X complained so I read it from the log.
[08:49] <Keybuk> pygi: I strongly suspect it doesn't
[08:49] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: modinfo nvidia says?
[08:49] <pygi> Keybuk, I'll be poking Thomas (scdbackup author about this)
[08:49] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: doesn't give me any version info?
[08:50] <Mithrandir> filename:       /lib/modules/2.6.17-6-amd64-k8/volatile/nvidia.ko
[08:50] <Mithrandir> which looks correct
[08:50] <Keybuk> pygi: though I have a hunch he didn't read the instructions and just installed upstart and not upstart-compat-sysv :p
[08:50] <Kamion> pitti: just waiting for the bug reporting workflow to get polished up, really ...
[08:50] <Kamion> Keybuk: yo
[08:50] <Mithrandir> rmmod nvidia && modprobe nvidia "fixed" the problem, though
[08:50] <Keybuk> Kamion: so, now you're back, can I make a slight seed change? :p
[08:50] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: now, _that_ is interesting
[08:50] <pygi> Keybuk, heh :P
[08:50] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I assume you have no other nvidia.ko on your system?
[08:51] <ivoks> Keybuk: another + for upstart; it runs rc.local before gdm; that's great
[08:51] <Kamion> Keybuk: go for it
[08:51] <Kamion> "slight"
[08:51] <Keybuk> nvidia_legacy shows up as nvidia in the lsmod output, doesn't it?
[08:51] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I'm running a find / now, but I none that I know of, no.
[08:51] <Keybuk> ivoks: it does?  it shouldn't
[08:51] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, just replacing one line for another <g>
[08:51] <Mithrandir> /lib/modules/2.6.17-6-amd64-k8/volatile/nvidia.ko is all the nvidia.ko-s I have.
[08:51] <ivoks> Keybuk: well, my rc.local does cping of xorg.conf and restarts gdm
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[08:52] <gnomefreak> the binary drivers from nvidia get rid of the volatile error 
[08:52] <ivoks> Keybuk: it never restarts gdm, but it copys xorg.conf before starting gdm
[08:52] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: uh, I have a 7600 GT, I really hope I don't need -legacy for that. :-P
[08:52] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: no, but it could be the legacy stuff blowing chunks?
[08:52] <Keybuk> ivoks: err, explain?
[08:52] <ivoks> Keybuk: i have xen and ubuntun kernel; on ubuntu kernel i use nvidia; on xen kernel i use nv
[08:53] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: conceivably, yes.
[08:53] <ivoks> Keybuk: when starting xen i sed xorg.conf to load nv; and other way around for ubuntu kernel
[08:53] <Keybuk> ivoks: ok ...
[08:53] <ivoks> Keybuk: so, it does that seding (which is in rc.local) before starting gdm
[08:54] <Keybuk> ivoks: did you move where rc.local is run in rc2.d?
[08:54] <ivoks> Keybuk: no
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[08:54] <Keybuk> ivoks: so why is that happening before gdm is started?
[08:55] <Keybuk> gdm is started at S13, rc.local doesn't happen until S99 ?
[08:55] <ivoks> Keybuk: i know, but this is what happens :/
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[08:55] <ivoks> Keybuk: i'll investigate more, and let you know
[08:55] <gnomefreak> are we waiting for the nvidia 9 series before we update nvidia. iirc oct. is the prospected release of 9
[08:56] <Keybuk> ivoks: are you sure gdm isn't just dying because of the wrong driver?
[08:56] <ivoks> Keybuk: screen would flickr; it doesn't
[08:56] <gnomefreak> ivoks: after updateing dbus by chance?
[08:57] <slomo> gnomefreak: gdm doesn't do anything with dbus
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[08:57] <ivoks> Keybuk: but i'll investigate that and let you know if there's need to think about it :0
[08:57] <ivoks> gnomefreak: ?
[08:57] <gnomefreak> slomo: thats what i thought too but it screwed up the nvidia binary drivers only vesa would work after dbus update
[08:57] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: well, on a reboot it worked..
[08:57] <gnomefreak> nv didnt work either
[08:57] <ivoks> Keybuk: could be that I'm missing something
[08:57] <slomo> gnomefreak: impossible imho... it must be something else that broke the drivers
[08:57] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I'll prod you or somebody else if I see it again.
[08:57] <Keybuk> ivoks: suddenly lots of people are having nvidia problems :p
[08:58] <gnomefreak> slomo: had to reinstall the drivers the other day
[08:58] <ivoks> Keybuk: i'm not having nvidia problems :))
[08:58] <jdong> ATI! ATI! ATI!
[08:58] <jdong> j/k :)
[08:58] <ivoks> otoh, i'm planing to buy laptop with intel :)
[08:58] <gnomefreak> only updates were dbus and avahi
[08:58] <jdong> Keybuk: doesn't gnomefreak's statement sound familiar? ;)
[08:58] <jdong> lol
[08:58] <Mithrandir> oh well, now I should be able to play with Xen.
[08:59] <jdong> ivoks: have fun in 915resolution-land? ;)
[08:59] <Keybuk> jdong: heh
[08:59] <slomo> gnomefreak: maybe you already had new nvidia driver but didn't restart X yet? i find it hard to believe that dbus broke X drivers :P unless the nvidia drivers use hal
[08:59] <pygi> jdong, yes, movie sending over dbus :)
[08:59] <ivoks> jdong: that's nothing like now; will it suspend or not; should i even try? :)
[08:59] <gnomefreak> slomo: nope i was using them for a week bufore this happened
[08:59] <jdong> ivoks: hehehe..... intel video doesn't guarantee suspending either
[09:00] <jdong> ivoks: on my intel, X crashes on resume
[09:00] <jdong> so I might as well friggin reboot :)
[09:00] <gnomefreak> slomo: the nvidia drivers had to build modules and everything else would dbus mess with any of those? (drivers from nvidia.com
[09:00] <ivoks> jdong: that's your intel, mine will not be anything like that :D
[09:00] <angasule> I installed kubuntu in spanish on saturday, and I noticed that it wants to download a 200MB language pack, there should be a less fracked up way of doing a language specific install (we had to give an extra CD with a script that added that package as well as some others, when we gave away linux here)
[09:00] <jdong> ivoks: lucky you... Strangely my fglrx suspends wonderfully
[09:00] <slomo> gnomefreak: nope, absolutely not
[09:01] <jdong> slomo: everything is better when your dbus upload takes the blame ;-)
=== jdong ducks
[09:01] <gnomefreak> lol
[09:02] <slomo> jdong: yeah i already noticed it :) it's always dbus' fault ;)
[09:02] <slomo> jdong: but your bug from yesterday could really be caused by dbus
[09:03] <gnomefreak> well i know avahi had nothing at all to do with anything dbus was only other update. dbus required restart and no gdm/kdm/xdm after about 45 minutes i reinstalled the drivers and poof X wordked
[09:03] <jdong> :)
[09:03] <Keybuk> hmm
[09:03] <gnomefreak> i wanna say it was saterday
[09:03] <Keybuk> something freaky has clearly gone on
[09:03] <gnomefreak> saturday
[09:04] <jdong> Keybuk: you said it
[09:04] <jdong> Keybuk: did you see #kubuntu-devel a few minutes ago?
[09:05] <Keybuk> no?
[09:05] <jdong> [14:53]  * mornfall summons Riddell 
[09:05] <jdong> [14:54]  * DaSkreech draws Circles on the floor and sprinkles salt
[09:05] <jdong> [14:54]  * mornfall puts 5 candles on the Circle and draws lines
[09:05] <jdong> you guys are all weird :P
[09:05] <Keybuk> hmm?
[09:06] <jdong> but seriously.... I'm not crazy when I say that something broke yesterday :)
[09:06] <jdong> and got magically fixed
[09:06] <jdong> I've been unable to reproduce my dbus problems :-/
[09:06] <jdong> tried everything
[09:06] <ivoks> it's the devil, i tell you, the devil
[09:06] <jdong> lol
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[09:15] <dholbach> good night 
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[10:15] <jdub> Keybuk!!!
[10:15] <jdub>    * Added upstart-compat-sysv to minimal-i386, minimal-amd64, minimal-
[10:15] <jdub>      powerpc, minimal-ia64, minimal-sparc
[10:15] <jdub>    * Added upstart to minimal-i386, minimal-amd64, minimal-powerpc,
[10:15] <jdub>      minimal-ia64, minimal-sparc
[10:15] <jdub>    * Removed sysvinit from minimal-i386, minimal-amd64, minimal-powerpc,
[10:15] <jdub>      minimal-ia64, minimal-sparc, minimal-hppa
[10:15] <jdub> 
[10:15] <jdub> !!!
[10:15] <Keybuk> jdub: three exclamation marks?
[10:15] <Keybuk> SIX exclamation marks?
[10:15] <pitti> jdub: afraid? :)
[10:16] <tseng> pitti: i am :(
[10:16] <Keybuk> it passed the Tollef test
[10:16] <Keybuk> he has installed it, and I have remained unbitten
[10:16] <Keybuk> actually, in general, I'm really happy with how stable it's been
[10:17] <Keybuk> clearly careful, tes
[10:17] <Keybuk> test-driven development is a goog thing
[10:17] <Keybuk> good
[10:17] <Keybuk> meh
[10:17] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: usplash doesn't seem to work now, though.
[10:17] <Keybuk> can't type and cook curry
[10:17] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I think that's entirely a usplash problem, given it starts before init :p
[10:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: for me neither, but it segfaulted before upstart for me, too
[10:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: itz svgalib bug for me; for you, too?
[10:18] <Mithrandir> pitti: unsure, I have just noticed it doesn't work.
=== pitti wonders whether he is the only one for whom usplash breaks
[10:18] <tseng> pitti: it does bad stuff to my vts
[10:18] <Keybuk> pitti: nah, breaks for everyone afaict
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=== pitti wonders whether mjg59 would kill him if he proposed to revert to plain vga
[10:19] <slomo> pitti: broken for me too on my ibook
[10:19] <pitti> on amd64 at least
[10:19] <pitti> same here
[10:19] <Mithrandir> pitti: you're using nvidia too?
[10:19] <Kamion> I think at this point we should make the call based on its state at feature freeze
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[10:19] <Kamion> if it's still broken then, we revert to VGA if that fixes it
[10:19] <pitti> Mithrandir: 'using' in the sense of "I have an nvidia card"
[10:20] <Keybuk> pitti: it's not so much mjg59 that would mind, as sabdfl and the art team *shrug*
[10:20] <Kamion> artwork is a feature ...
[10:20] <Keybuk> personally I'm all for the "use the usplash that works"
[10:20] <Mithrandir> pitti: mjg59 had some trouble with nvidia cards before.
[10:20] <pitti> Mithrandir: Matthew and I gdb'ed it for a fair while, but then we just gave up
[10:20] <Keybuk> talking of which
[10:21] <Keybuk> has anyone seen any sign of the increasingly mythical artwork? :p
[10:21] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: no, usplash doesn't work, so.. :-P
[10:21] <pitti> it just falls apart in the real mode emulation code, or something like that
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[10:21] <Mithrandir> pitti: trying to run usplash when X is running made my kernel unhappy, though.
[10:21] <Mithrandir> as in, "oops"
[10:21] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: heh, yeah
[10:21] <pitti> Keybuk: I saw usplash, then later text mode output, and now, with upstart, no output at all any more ;) does that count as mythical? :-p
[10:21] <Keybuk> it does that
[10:21] <Keybuk> even to plain X drivers
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[10:22] <pitti> Keybuk: it's mystical enough in the sense of 'WTF is this machine doing now?' :)
[10:23] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: it used to work fine, though.
[10:25] <Seveas> Mithrandir, ati card?
[10:25] <Seveas> it happens to me too quite frequently
[10:25] <Mithrandir> Seveas: nope, nvidia.
[10:26] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I have rebooted some more times and not seen the nvidia problem any more, so I guess it was just a fluke.
[10:26] <Seveas> speaking of usplash -- /me should finish some more patches for it
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[10:27] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: lots of people have seen that fluke :-/
[10:28] <Seveas> Keybuk, btw, I have some usplash artwork for you
[10:28] <Seveas> the patches I'm finishing are making sure people can actually create artwork for it without any heroic efforts ;)
[10:29] <Keybuk> Seveas: why for me?
[10:29] <Seveas> <Keybuk> talking of which
[10:29] <Seveas> <Keybuk> has anyone seen any sign of the increasingly mythical artwork? :
[10:30] <Keybuk> Seveas: isn't is supposed to be uploaded by now?
[10:30] <Keybuk> Feature Freeze is a mere 1590 minutes away
[10:31] <Seveas> Keybuk, well, the things I am still working on could be considered patches, they don't affect functionality -- the things I talked about earlier are now entirely mjg59's issue ;)
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[10:31] <Seveas> @calc 1590/60
[10:31] <Ubugtu> 26.5
[10:32] <Seveas> hmm, little over a day
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[10:35] <Seveas> pitti, Mithrandir: are you on amd64? I noticed a bug on LP about usplash crashing on that platform
[10:35] <pitti> Seveas: yes (see backscroll)
[10:35] <Seveas> ah yes, missed that line
[10:36] <Mithrandir> Seveas: yes
[10:36] <Seveas> is indeed an svgalib bug, missing -fPIC at places
[10:36] <Seveas> patch available at aforementioned bugreport
[10:36] <pitti> should it be that easy?
[10:36] <pitti> wow
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[10:37] <pitti> Seveas: gdb crashes on some ridiculously low address here (0x40 or so), according to mjg59 that was due to some real mode emulation code which doesn't work on amd64; funny that PIC cures that
[10:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: er, isn't FF on Thursday?
[10:37] <Seveas> pitti, according to the people on that bugreport -fPIC fixes it
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[10:37] <pitti> Seveas: cool
[10:38] <cbx33> Kamion, I thought it was Fri
[10:38] <cbx33> put it this way, I hope it was Friday :p
[10:38] <Kamion> cbx33: normally Thursday
[10:38] <cbx33> aARGH !
[10:38] <cbx33> I'm never gonna make it
[10:38] <cbx33> heh, guess I'd better stop chattin and start coding
[10:38] <Kamion> infinity: speaking of which, what's the state of the live CD specs?
[10:39] <_ion> keybuk: Is there high priority stuff in upstart TODO that can't be implemented after feature freeze?
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[10:42] <Seveas> not too much green...
[10:42] <cbx33> the spec I'm working on isn't even approved yet
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=== Kamion decides to officially defer ubiquity-advanced-partitioner
[10:43] <Kamion> oh well
[10:43] <cbx33> hey popey 
[10:43] <jdub> Kamion: bummer :(
[10:44] <cbx33> ogra was waiting for mdz to approve the SCP sec
[10:44] <cbx33> spec
[10:44] <Kamion> jdub: just too much stuff in it ...
[10:44] <Kamion> I'll keep working on it so hopefully I'll be able to merge it early in edgy+1
[10:45] <Kamion> and this frees me up to help with other things
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[10:47] <Kamion> notably I think I need to hammer on sane-installer-keyboard over the next couple of days
[10:47] <ajmitch> Kamion: did that f-spot UVF request make it to your inbox?
[10:48] <popey> hey cbx33 
[10:48] <cbx33> howz it going popey ?
[10:49] <Kamion> ajmitch: doesn't look like it
[10:50] <ajmitch> ok, no surprise, I'll file it as a bug
[10:50] <ajmitch> and then consider switching ISPs :)
[10:52] <popey> cbx33: got a bug in 2.6.17 :(
[10:53] <cbx33> ohdear
[10:53] <cbx33> popey, what's the bug in?
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[10:54] <popey> via-rhine driver or thereabouts
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[10:55] <popey> well, not specifically that driver because that hasn't changed for years :)
[10:55] <popey> but something networky, laptop /win 20
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[10:55] <popey> bah
[10:56] <popey> bug 58469.
[10:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58469 in linux-source-2.6.17 "via-rhine net card stopped working in 2.6.17" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58469
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[10:58] <cbx33> :(
[11:00] <Burgundavia> Kamion: is the windows version of OO.o still on the cd?
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[11:00] <zyga> hey
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[11:04] <jott> any chance bug 51893 will get fixed anytime soon?
[11:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51893 in aptitude "aptitude pegs cpu for extended period of time on "aptitude upgrade"" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51893
[11:06] <cbx33> in gconf, If I specify a mandatory repo path, does it have to be "setup" before I can use it?
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[11:22] <Kamion> Burgundavia: doesn't look like it; look at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/*.list etc. if you want to check a particular image
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[11:27] <Burgundavia> Kamion: ok, I was wondering, because somebody wanted a CD to hand out with OO.o on it
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[11:28] <Keybuk> Kamion: isn't it "start of Thursday" ?
[11:28] <Keybuk> _ion: most of the TODO at this point is post-feature-freeze
[11:29] <Keybuk> _ion: am unsure whether to abandon b-m-l at this point, or request a stay of absence on it for a few days
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[11:32] <Burgundavia> Kamion: just in time for it to be too late: gparted 0.3
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[11:35] <Kamion> Keybuk: right, but that's not 26 hours away, so your maths is off somewhere
[11:36] <Kamion> Burgundavia: hmm, the changelog is not enthralling
[11:37] <Kamion> http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=444805&group_id=115843
[11:37] <Kamion> maybe the NTFS bug fixes would be a good idea
[11:37] <Kamion> I might pull it in, dunno
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