[12:14] real life has been kicking my tail lately [12:15] kick it back :) [12:15] and for some reason my edgy box decided to not have a network anymore [12:15] :( [12:15] so I'm installing Knot2 to see if I can get it going [12:15] I also but in a different network card [12:15] s/but/put/ [12:16] restart didn't fix, will debug later [12:16] time for food [12:20] my last knot2 try with the old netowork card died on OO.o deps or something [12:20] right time to kick some SCP ass === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #edubuntu [12:27] ping ogra [12:27] you already have a .desktop file in there? [12:28] ah nevermind === jinty [n=jinty@132.Red-83-55-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #edubuntu [12:48] LaserJock, got a sec for a packaging question? [12:48] cbx33: shoot [12:49] debian-rules-missing-required-target binary-arch [12:49] :S? === FlyingSquirrel32 [n=jared@ool-18b9930c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #edubuntu [01:13] I've got edubuntu here at home, but when I upgraded to 6.10 my DHCP and ltsp isn't running. Any ideas? === ubotu [n=ubotu@ubuntu/bot/ubotu] has joined #edubuntu [01:46] ogra, had some problems with module names [01:47] hopefully building the final test deb now [01:50] it's bloody broken it all [01:50] ogra....it's gonna have to be tomorrow [01:50] sorry dude [01:50] it's bugger up the module names now [01:58] well ... [02:05] ogra, done it [02:05] I've fixed it [02:05] I wasn't goign to goto bed till I did [02:05] I have pessulus and scp ready === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #edubuntu [02:05] wow [02:06] you rock ! [02:06] do you want debs or the source debs [02:06] ogra, there was some buggery in python [02:06] source debs are always better :) [02:06] you cannot have a module name with a - in it [02:06] which I wasn't aware of === Amaranth goes to figure out why willowng won't setup it's dbus interface [02:06] so when I built the site-pacakges dir for the plugins [02:06] it was [02:06] student-control-panel [02:06] which died [02:06] grrr [02:06] but it's all fixed now [02:07] I'll upload it sir [02:07] ah :) [02:07] hope you like [02:07] wha? you guys are all doing an all-nighter? [02:07] in edgy+1 I recommend a complete re hash of scp [02:07] and restructure [02:08] well I am [02:08] and I still havn't done the MIR :S [02:08] jsgotangco, i just finished the last lines of the login/session selection stuff in ldm ... and cbx33 rocks the worls with a finished SCP and pessulus [02:09] *world [02:09] whoa [02:09] jsgotangco, yes :P [02:09] im sorry i haven't been much help develoment-wise === ogra looks at a danish xfce atm ... [02:10] i havent found a sane way to translate all the locales yet ... === pete_ [n=pete@84-45-238-195.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #edubuntu === pete_ is now known as cbx333 [02:17] ogra, [02:17] www.progbox.co.uk/main-additions [02:17] night all === pygi looks at clock...2:20 am, whee:-) [02:18] I havn't checked one aspect of it [02:18] but it's a minor thing :p [02:19] oh bugger [02:19] dang it [02:21] ok updated [02:21] ok [02:23] ogra, seeing as my updated version of SCP isn't in universe [02:23] for availability chall I reference that link I just gave you? [02:26] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionStudentControlPanel ogra Burgwork [02:26] does that look ok? [02:27] cbx333, it needs to be the universe package you refer to in "Availablility" [02:27] even though that's not up to date? [02:27] Needed to assist in the maintenance of edubuntu LTSP servers and planned addition for edgy [02:28] pitti wont read it tonight ;) [02:28] ok [02:28] we ok to fix up tomorroe [02:28] will you give me a few mins to sort it all out [02:28] what about the dependencies ? [02:28] you only list the build deps [02:28] oh shute yeh [02:29] pessulus [02:29] ok [02:29] thats in main [02:29] dang that's not in control either [02:29] just drop the brackets === cbx333 cries [02:29] there is a bug in the package [02:29] the xdg autostart file isn't starting scp-client on user login [02:30] oh, why ? [02:30] I'm not sure [02:30] just restarting X [02:30] to find out why [02:31] the program is in the right place and runs fine :S [02:31] just waiting to test again [02:31] how soon can we get scp into universe...the updated pacakge I mean? [02:33] wtf i have to run ie on this machine [02:36] ogra, I still can't see why it's not loading scp-client at logon [02:36] but that's not critical right now [02:36] I can fix that tomorrow [02:36] nn eveyone [02:36] 4 hours sleep here I come :D [02:40] i've almost gotten all the bugs i can find out of willowng 0.3 [02:40] enjoy [02:40] one or two left [02:41] did anyone ever check to see if firefox honors gconf proxy settings? [02:48] ogra, do you still need help with xauth? [02:49] rodarvus, i have no idea whats wrong with it ... but it seems i cant log in properly after i logged out (unrelated to the session handling stuff, i saw it before) === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #edubuntu [02:50] its a bug, fine to fix it after ff [02:50] good [02:53] Amaranth: where would I pull that code from? [02:53] should I remove the packaged willow-ng? [02:53] cbx333: have you also got some code for me to test? [02:54] hold on, let me push [02:55] bzr branch http://dev.realistanew.com/willowng [03:01] Amaranth: error: can't copy 'build/willowng.desktop': doesn't exist or not a regular file === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #edubuntu [03:02] oh, wait, I don't have build essental [03:02] hey bddebian [03:03] Heya Burgundavia === hlabs_ [n=hlabs@CPE00121788bf68-CM00109558344a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #edubuntu === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #edubuntu === nixternal [n=nixterna@71.194.189.213] has joined #edubuntu [03:51] damn custom error pages [03:53] hmm? [03:53] they don't work :P [03:56] as far as i can tell everything else works but you get some headers for output instead of an error page when you hit something that got blocked [03:57] and firefox doesn't use gconf proxy settings :/ [04:03] ogra: I would love it if you could write a five line summary of ltsp in edgy over dapper for the UWN [04:03] Burgundavia, not before FF [04:04] ogra: hmm working at home is enjoyable at first..i discovered [04:04] i'm up since 22h ... and need some sleep and have to implement one spec tomorrow [04:05] jsgotangco, absolutely ... [04:05] you can mow the lawn while compiling a big package etc ... [04:07] night all... [04:07] Amaranth, final review submitted btw ... [04:07] cool === arkan0x [n=arkan0x@pc-6-76-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu === _acesuares [n=ace@201.222.33.116] has joined #edubuntu [04:42] <_acesuares> hi all [04:42] <_acesuares> anyone awake ?? [04:43] <_acesuares> I am looking for a speaker on a small conference on education in Curacao (www.curacao.com) for [04:43] <_acesuares> 4 or 5 october. How would I locate such speaker ? === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #edubuntu === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #edubuntu === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #edubuntu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #edubuntu === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #edubuntu === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #edubuntu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #edubuntu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #edubuntu [07:15] Amaranth: how'd the willowng testing go? [07:15] as far as i can see everything but error pages works [07:16] but firefox does not honor gconf proxy settings [07:16] yeah, I'm wondering what to do on the KDE side [07:17] I don't use KDE very much so I'm not very familiar how it would work [07:17] I was able to figure out where it stored the proxy settings for konqueror [07:17] for the menu stuff? [07:18] KDE uses the same menu [07:18] willowng [07:18] ugh [07:18] that is another thing: like the lockdown keys, that needs to be freedesktop-ed [07:18] mhm [07:19] it really would be nice to have a common place for common things [07:19] everything i can find says to use iptables to do transparent proxying [07:19] Amaranth: yeah, that's what I was going to try to look at [07:19] i was told not to do it [07:20] <_acesuares> I am looking for a speaker on a small conference on education in Curacao (www.curacao.com) for [07:20] <_acesuares> [22:44] <_acesuares> 4 or 5 october. How would I locate such speaker ? [07:20] LaserJock: remember the guy at Ubucon who was grilling me on KDE support? [07:20] hmm, perhaps [07:21] he asked Chris during the final wrapup [07:21] after Chris said what Canonical was doing [07:21] http://in-cider.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!1F17474AB1F2CE52!338.entry <--w00t [07:22] hacky but i'll take it [07:22] Burgundavia: yeah? [07:22] you want it to automatically change the proxy info for the browser, without having to manually change the browser? [07:22] perhaps i can get whoever takes care of firefox to setup part of that for me [07:23] so i only need to add/remove things from the prefcalls.js file [07:23] Burgundavia: yeah [07:23] basically it looks like the plan now is to set debconf and gconf proxy settings, do that firefox hack, then use iptables to block access to port 80 for everyone but willowng [07:24] that is a major hack [07:24] yep [07:24] apps should honour the HTTP_PROXY ENV variable [07:25] should [07:25] i'll set that one too, thanks [07:26] that iptables bit is also difficult [07:26] yeah [07:26] sleep time, have to wake up in 3 hours [07:26] ugg [07:28] morning LaserJock Amaranth and Burgundavia! [07:28] morning high [07:28] highvoltage, even [07:28] :) [07:29] hmm, funny at work today. My workmate comes in and we start talking about Linux and he says "Ya, my buddy is now running that sinking ship Linux" [07:29] fun roll loops! [07:30] hi highvoltage [07:30] sinking ship Linux? [07:31] yeah, we suck ;-) [07:31] no, Gentoo [07:32] ah [07:32] http://funroll-loops.org/ [07:32] for the record, that is whiprush's page [07:33] something I learned at LWE [07:33] what? really? [07:33] haha [07:33] ah Gentoo, I miss those days sometimes [07:34] never did that crack and thus I have never "missed" it [07:34] heh [07:34] it really is a nice distro [07:34] but it is different [07:34] I used to miss Gentoo, I installed it a few weeks ago (just to try the new GUI installer), and found that I wasn't really missing /that/ much. [07:34] it's how I got started on Linux [07:35] LaserJock: probably a sentimental thing then :) [07:35] sorta [07:35] i liked that i could leave my computer overnight to compile things [07:35] it gave me a feeling that my computer was working while I was sleeping [07:36] which made me feel more productive :) [07:36] but debian/ubuntu is the only thing that has matched it in terms of having all the software I need [07:36] heh [07:37] that is utter crack, you realize that [07:37] that's what pulled me to debian as well. I didn't have to download and compile anything when I started using debian. and testing and unstable always had (or at least has) very new versions of all the software available. [07:37] Burgundavia: not for me anyway [07:37] or were you talking to highvoltage [07:37] highvoltage: [07:37] before debian I used to use slackware and SuSE, it's been ages since I used them now. [07:37] Burgundavia [07:39] i wasn't into gentoo for the source so i eventually looked for a binary gentto [07:39] *gentoo [07:39] that's how I ended up with Ubuntu === arkan0x [n=arkan0x@pc-6-76-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu [07:40] we have stolen a lot of users from Gentoo, I think [07:42] i can believe that [07:45] the thing is, I found gentoo to be very easy to install and use [07:45] and I tried to get into Debian a couple times [07:45] but failed miserably [07:49] debian is a bitch to install [07:50] although d-i makes it a bit better [07:50] mostly I hate any distro that is more than one cd [07:59] mhm === mdz [n=mdz@studiocity-motorola-bsr1-70-36-194-85.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #edubuntu === arkan0x [n=arkan0x@pc-6-76-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu [08:36] greetz :) [08:38] hi RichEd [08:39] hello LaserJock :) [08:39] hi RichEd === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@201.230.39.89] has joined #edubuntu === TeePOG [n=arno@196.211.231.163] has joined #edubuntu === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #edubuntu [09:19] good morning [09:23] morning TeePOG [09:25] how you doing highvoltage? === Vego [n=vegard@195.159.157.54] has joined #edubuntu [09:28] good thanks and you TeePOG? [09:28] TeePOG: where are you from? your IP address looks familiar. [09:30] highvoltage: Pretoria, SA [09:30] yo? [09:30] you*? [09:33] TeePOG: Cape Town [09:34] TeePOG: I'm also in Cape Town ... what's your Edubuntu interest ? === pips1 [n=philipp@195.216.81.229] has joined #edubuntu [09:44] we've got an internet cafe [09:44] and i'm running edubuntu as a terminal server [09:46] TeePOG: Great ... I'm the Education Manager, and I am currently building a view of our user categories to create community and support areas. Would you be willing to answer a few profile questions via email ? [09:48] if yes, you can mail me on richard.edubuntu@gmail.com saying this is TeePOG with a 2 line intro. [09:48] I'd appreciate it : As in "help us to help you better" [09:49] RichEd: i would love to, but having 1 or 2 issues with the actual LTSP logins... need to sort out the technical side, then i'd have leisure to help you [09:50] TeePOG: you can ask technical questions in this channell too :) [09:50] no rush TeePOG : It will be an exercise over the next month. Pop me a hi, and you can get the questions and respond any time you are free. [09:52] An by the way, jump at the offer of help from highvoltage. He's one of the top LTSP hands-on experience resources :) [09:53] i will... ironically i have to help a customer sort out why her laptop won't get POP === RichEd pimps for highvoltage as a side job ;) [09:53] brb highvoltage ok? [09:53] ok [09:54] lol RichEd... nice job === pygi [n=pygi@89-172-196-68.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #edubuntu [09:59] highvoltage: Can I ask you a quick technical question ? [10:03] RichEd: I prefer quick technical questions to questions about asking questions [10:03] RichEd: of course : [10:03] ) === RichEd opens a private window with highvoltage so as not to embarress himself with newbie issues === jono [n=jono@88-107-5-110.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #edubuntu === RichEd hides from jono ... quick [10:05] heh [10:06] will speak to you now jono ... give me 5 [10:06] sure === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #edubuntu [10:36] sooo, highvoltage: still available? === Papasean [n=icechat5@host217-35-90-149.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #edubuntu [10:36] hey ho ogra [10:36] hey === ogra is disappointed ..., just upgraded to upstart and expected some sppedup of the boot at least ... [10:37] :( [10:37] there goes the only thing I had to look forward to this week [10:38] well, i guess its the fact that we still use all the sysvinit scripts .. === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #edubuntu [10:39] if things actually use the new system it will get faster [10:50] right [10:52] arg, I was hoping for a speedup too ;-) [10:53] RichEd ping [10:53] pong pips1 : on my way to get a coffee ... open a window and go for it ... back in 5 [10:54] RichEd send me those profile questions too, I'm happy to participate :-) === jinty [n=jinty@132.Red-83-55-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #edubuntu [10:55] ... and rather curious about your profile questions ;-) [11:03] Sure pygi ... it is very high-level bare bones, but we'll refine. Main criteria right now is to identify our Categories of Users / Stakeholders. [11:04] ahm? :) [11:05] We'll then drill down into profiling each category ... from hands-on user values to softer issues ... e.g. education department officials are not users, but stakeholders, and what are their buttons that we need to press [11:06] morning [11:07] RichEd: i'm slightly confused who you are currently talking to! :-) is it me? autocompletion gave you 'pygi' instead of 'pips1' ? === RichEd clarifies ... [11:08] pips1: Sure .. it is very high-level bare bones, but we'll refine. Main criteria right now is to identify our Categories of Users / Stakeholders. [11:08] pips1: We'll then drill down into profiling each category ... from hands-on user values to softer issues ... e.g. education department officials are not users, but stakeholders, and what are their buttons that we need to press [11:08] pygi: hi :) [11:09] RichEd, lol,hi :) === RichEd apologises for switch around [11:09] (comes from eating peanut butter toast and typing at the same time) [11:10] RichEd: bare-bones is fine and I'd be more than happy to provide my input to refine the profiling as we go along... [11:11] pips1: I'll ping you when sent. [11:14] ok === jono__ [n=jono@88-107-5-110.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #edubuntu === cbx33 [n=c2df514b@84-45-197-14.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #edubuntu [11:23] ping pygi ogra [11:25] ping Amaranth [11:25] :p === Papasean [n=Papasean@host217-35-90-149.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #edubuntu [11:27] cbx33, SCP uploaded to universe, so you can refer to the package in your MIR [11:27] ogra: wow cool [11:27] I need to talk to you a little [11:27] not today please [11:27] ok [11:27] thank you [11:28] I will finish up the includsion [11:28] i have a complete feature to implement and have two meetings today ... [11:28] and poke you for a universe upload later [11:28] ogra: that's fine [11:28] its a very very tight day for me [11:28] there is still a problem with scp-client [11:28] fine, poke me ... (and go for motu asap ;) ) [11:28] but I'm goign to pool all my resources and work till 4:00am to fix if I have to [11:28] ogra: :D ok [11:28] thanks ! === pygi wants someone signs his key, so he can go for MOTU :P [11:30] pygi: please do you ahve a second [11:30] I really need some python assistance === Papasean [n=Papasean@host217-35-90-149.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #edubuntu [11:45] who would I bug for an update to a package in main? [11:45] oh actually nm [11:47] cbx33, lol [11:49] cbx33, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edgy-changes/2006-September/005093.html [11:49] please be a bit more verbose in your next chagelog entries :) [11:50] sorry ogra [11:50] i dont care, i know what you did ... [11:51] but that one sentence somehow hides the awesome work ... you deserve the credit so take it ;) ... [11:53] aww thanks ogra I'll have to repackage...maybe I'll sneak it in :D === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #edubuntu [12:06] ping cbx33 [12:09] can anyone tell me the following: is "kaffe" an adequate substitute for the JRE? [12:12] RichEd: do you know? [12:13] hi TeePOG : i'm still getting up to speed with the apps ... I'd suggest wait for a wider audience response. [12:13] thanks RichEd [12:14] pong RichEd [12:14] it seems Automatix can find no installation candidate for the Sun JRE [12:15] TeePOG: I'll make you a deal ... send me an email for later chat and I'll do a quick hunt for you ... and also send you some useful resources by email response [12:15] OK RichEd, sending mail now [12:16] shot. will do a quick search for you on kaffe ... explain the issues in more detail in 2/3 lins and i'll go hunt for you [12:17] RichEd: what do you want in the intro? [12:17] hi, it's teepog from the pta icafe [12:17] that's enuff to get a placemarker [12:18] ah ok === Papasea1 [n=papasean@host217-35-90-149.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #edubuntu [12:18] thought you wanted a 2-sentence bio [12:19] *sent* === Papasea1 [n=papasean@host217-35-90-149.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #edubuntu [] [12:19] RichEd: you wanna talk meetings? [12:19] cbx33: sending an email to charles masters ... please tell me: official position, school name, school location [12:20] yours ... innawindow [12:20] ok [12:20] :) thanks [12:23] just out of interest: does anyone else use Internet Solutions as an ISP? they seem to have the whole Ubuntu main / stable / universe / multiverse mirror, but what do I put in my sources.list to make apt use IS as a repo? === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #edubuntu [12:37] good morning === Papasean [n=papasean@host217-35-90-149.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #edubuntu [12:40] hey rodarvus [12:40] hi cbx33 [12:40] so, hands up who's doing something on Software Freedom Day this year? [12:42] none here wants to organise it :( [12:55] :( [12:55] highvoltage, true :( === pips1 waves at lucasvo who is involved in organising an event on software freedom day [01:01] ping ogra [01:09] RichEd, pong [01:09] ogra: I know you are very busy - quick comments in pvt window === Zplay [n=charles@86.73.29.19] has joined #edubuntu [01:15] Hi [01:28] ogra, libburn works great on remote burners over iscsi ;) [01:28] cool ! [01:29] throught openiscsi === pygi does a happy dance ^_^ [01:29] just blanked cd, and burning data iso === aspekt [n=aspekt@katchoo.bogus.net] has left #edubuntu [] [01:35] ogra: [01:35] the clients can hold their own settings in /etc and load kernel modules as they please, dont they? so just connecting to the initiator via TCP should do I suppose? [01:37] yep [01:38] and we have an ssh tunnel to trigger it on the server in the users session [01:38] oki, I thought we are thinking about rocket science, and it's simple really :P [01:40] right, thanks for explanation :) [01:41] there's also an init script coming with openiscsi [01:41] we could add a line or two to login to the target === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #edubuntu [01:49] ogra: the node name doesn't change as long as the device description/MAC address of the target doesn't change! so it's really easily scriptable to log on, no need to access the initiator over ssh to do it, right? [01:50] well, safety probably [01:50] ahm, I get it, so we want the ssh trigger [01:50] if you trigger the session side at the moment where you detect an empty CD for example [01:50] thast quite safe ... [01:50] right, right [01:52] hello [01:52] hey ho jsgotangco [01:53] i changed the hostname, and now some of my updates don't work... keep asking for "non-local host edubuntu" [01:53] how do I fix it?? [01:53] ogra, we also have to enable scsi-ide-emulation [01:54] that will get the kernel team in a rage [01:54] ogra, perhaps, but we need it [01:56] it will break cdrecord [01:58] ogra, ehm :-/ [01:59] ogra, why exactly would we break cdrecord with that? [02:00] cdrecord has a check for scsi emu === astecp [n=aspect@death.dissension.net] has joined #edubuntu [02:00] ogra, and it fails if we have it enabled? [02:00] and its abandoned upstream in the kernel since 2.6.0 [02:00] ----- edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting ---- now ----- [02:00] ogra: just replacing your os.popen calls [02:00] i think it fails, yes [02:00] cbx33, cool [02:00] there are a lot of them i saw :( [02:01] ogra: if after that the MIR is good....can we submit to main queue? [02:01] there are 4 [02:01] I have killed off one [02:01] just working on the other 3 === Petaris [n=Petaris@216.56.37.162] has joined #edubuntu [02:02] ogra, so it would mean there is no way we can enable it? :-/ [02:03] it will vanish from the kernel at some point [02:04] o joy, oki, so we'll have to find a way :) [02:04] ogra: will you join the meeting at all? [02:04] but without the emulation we only have support for scsi drives :P [02:10] that's why we need userspace lib probably :P === nahoj [n=johan@194-16-217-5.customer.telia.com] has joined #edubuntu [02:22] anyone know why I can't login to my ltsp [02:22] i just get booted back to login scree nagain [02:23] serious question: how difficult is it for a "windows-only"-sys admin to install and administrate ubuntu on a school-network? there is about 16 computers for students and 10 for teachers, on top of that we are going to have a separate network for students rooms, connected to internet only. any thoughts of how hard this would be? is edubuntu the best choice for this task? [02:23] cbx33, run ltsp-update-sshkeys ? [02:23] is the sshd running ? [02:23] ok will check [02:23] thanks [02:23] look in ~/.xsession-errors of the user if both is true [02:24] nahoj: if you're going to make use of an LTSP Server/client setup, you're just maintaining one machine [02:26] sorry ogra sshd isnt running [02:26] jsgotangco, ok, I am not sure what LTSP Server/client setup is, but the "just maintaining on machine" part sounds interesting... =) [02:26] it isn;'t even installed [02:26] :S [02:26] this is from the knot 2 cd [02:26]