/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/09/07/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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brendonjt!meeting-auckland01:55
Burgwork@now auckland01:57
UbugtuCurrent time in Pacific/Auckland: September 07 2006, 11:57:51 - Next meeting: Kubuntu in 21 hours 2 minutes01:57
Burgwork@schedule auckland01:58
UbugtuSchedule for Pacific/Auckland: 08 Sep 09:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Sep 08:00: Technical Board | 14 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Sep 00:00: Community Council01:58
Burgworkbrendonjt, that should be what you need01:58
brendonjtcool thanks 01:59
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HikoAloha06:58
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brendonjthow was the meeting  on wednesday?06:59
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Burgundaviabrendonjt: which meeting? this channel is only for the actual meetings and is thus used by many teams07:01
brendonjtCC meeting07:01
Burgundaviabrendonjt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/CC-2006-9-507:02
brendonjtwhat is the @ command to find out the meeting time for your time zone07:03
Burgundavia@now auckland07:04
UbugtuCurrent time in Pacific/Auckland: September 07 2006, 17:04:17 - Next meeting: Kubuntu in 15 hours 55 minutes07:04
Burgundavia@schedule auckland07:04
UbugtuSchedule for Pacific/Auckland: 08 Sep 09:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Sep 08:00: Technical Board | 14 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Sep 00:00: Community Council07:04
brendonjtthankyou07:04
Burgundaviano worries07:04
BurgundaviaI am also Burgwork07:04
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Lure@schedule05:29
Ubug2Schedule for Etc/UTC: 07 Sep 21:00: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 20:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00: Community Council05:29
Lure@schedule ljubljana05:29
Ubug2Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 07 Sep 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 14:00: Community Council05:29
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kdw /msg NickServ IDENTIFY wdkchat10:30
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council
ryanakcaeh? I missesd the kubuunt umeeting?10:50
JucatoO_O10:50
Hawkwindryanakca: No, 9 minutes10:50
ryanakcaso it starts in 9? or I've missed it? (I'm just wondering because Ubugtu changed the topic)10:51
ryanakcamissed 9 minutes that is10:51
HawkwindIt starts in 9 minutes10:52
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HawkwindHe changes the topic 10 minutes before the meeting starts10:52
ryanakcaah10:52
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HawkwindYaaaaayyyyyy for abattoir10:54
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abattoirthe meeting hasnt started yet, has it?10:55
Hawkwindabattoir: 4 minutes10:55
Hawkwind@time10:55
UbugtuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: September 07 2006, 20:55:44 - Current meeting: Kubuntu10:55
Jucatonot yet... we've been wating for you :)10:55
Jucatothat's why it hasn't started :)10:55
abattoiron time, i guess then :)10:55
nixternaljeesh, countin' down like you are waiting for your methadone shots10:56
Jucatolol10:56
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claydohwow I made it :)11:00
Jucatolol11:00
HawkwindWow, so you did :)11:00
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Riddellgood evening all11:01
HawkwindGood afternoon11:01
Jucatomorning! :)11:01
Riddellhow many council members do we have here?11:01
RiddellTonio_? allee? 11:01
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nixternalwell hello there everbody!11:02
Riddellhobbsee seems to be asleep11:02
Tonio_Riddell: mother at phone, back in 3 minutes approx :)11:03
Riddellhmm, we need three for membership stuff, need to wait until Tonio_ or someone turns up11:03
Riddellah, Tonio_!11:03
nixternalhehe11:03
alleetoma ping?11:03
Tonio_Riddell: just 3 minutes, let him introduce, I'm reading at the same time11:03
Riddellok, fabo here?11:03
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alleehi fabo11:04
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fabohi allee , all :)11:04
Riddellfabo: do you have a wiki page?11:04
fabohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/FathiBoudra11:04
kwwiiI am, of course, hee11:04
kwwiihere11:04
alleehi kwwii 11:04
Riddellfabo: got a couple of lines to introduce yourself?11:05
fabosure11:05
faboso my name is fathi ;)11:06
faboi contribute on debian and kubuntu11:06
fabofollowing KDE stuff11:06
faboalready memnber of debian qt/kde and kde extras team11:07
tomafabo: where do you get the time to do all that debian work?11:07
fabotoma: i work in a company that allow me to do some distro stuff11:08
tomaoh cool11:08
alleegreat11:08
Tonio_fabo: quite a lot of chance :)11:08
=== ryanakca is jelous
faboso this is the bug lines ... ;)11:09
fabobig11:09
Riddellfabo: are you satisfied with the way we communicate changes in kubuntu packages back to debian?11:09
faboRiddell: yes but i hate launchpad ;)11:09
Tonio_fabo: technical reasons ?11:10
faboi'm use often mail interface, and launchpad is really a web interface11:10
fabo-'m11:10
Tonio_fabo: launchpad is able to send mails too ;)11:11
Riddelleach to their own, I can't stand e-mail as an application interface11:11
Tonio_fabo: what do you think we should do to improve the communication between kubuntu and debian ?11:11
faboi tried to follow the wiki page about mail interface but seems buggy11:11
faboTonio_: some time ago i found an rss feed that return ubuntu patch11:12
faboquite usefull11:12
=== fabo search url
alleefabo: why did you decide to work too on Kubuntu in addition to debian?11:12
Tonio_fabo: interesting, I didn't heard about that11:13
tomagood question11:13
faboallee: because i'm a kde desktop guy and debian lack on this part11:13
fabokde is more polished for end user for the desktop11:14
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Riddellok, time for votes I think11:14
tomafabo: so you want to move away from debian?11:14
Tonio_ok for me since fabo contributed consistenly on packages, like kaffeine + many more11:15
fabotoma: never :)11:15
toma;-)11:15
fabotoma: from my wiki page : I'm sharing utnubu ideas, i like Debian/Kubuntu, both worlds, i don't want to choose between the two and a big KDE addict.11:15
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Tonio_although it is important to make the debian/kubuntu link strong and fabo is greatly improving this11:15
tomai agree to that11:16
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=== allee +1. I know his work from kde-extras group. He has definitly the more than enough skill. My only wish, that he will be as aktive in Kubuntu as in Debian
tomabut i've not seen fabo very presently on irc or somethign11:16
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Riddell+1 from me for a long list of packages and for making the cmake.mk cdbs file which workead perfectly in my kde 4 packages11:17
Riddelltoma: he is on irc a good bit11:17
fabotoma: i agree, unfortunately i've got more than 40 channel to follow :)11:17
Tonio_toma: he sometimes reguarding to the packages he maintains, and I can confirm he follows their good working in kubuntu11:17
alleefabo: crazy11:17
Tonio_fabo: welcome aboard :)11:17
fabothanks all :)11:18
Riddelldid toma vote?11:18
toma+1 for me, for the work i know from debian and hope to see the same in kubuntu ;-)11:18
alleefabo: congrats11:18
Riddellyay!11:18
tomayes ;-)11:18
fabo:))11:18
ryanakcacongrats :))11:18
tomafabo: did you sign the coc ?11:18
fabotoma: yes11:18
tomak11:18
Riddellthanks for helping fabo 11:18
RiddellseaLne: about?11:18
seaLneyes11:18
Riddellyour item11:18
Riddelllikeback11:19
seaLneis [WWW]  likeback worth considering? apparently kde-core-devel is considering something similar/different 11:19
ryanakcatoma: don't you have to? (If your going to upload to the repos that is)11:19
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alleeryanakca: he's not a MOTU (yet)11:19
tomaryanakca: yes, i have one app running with likeback11:19
seaLnei'm not sure how many of you have seen http://basket.kde.org/likeback.php but it seems like a good idea to get granular feedback11:19
Riddellthis is a quick feedback mechanism for users to developers11:20
tomaryanakca: but it is small and have not got any reactions11:20
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RiddellI'm not sure where we'd put a "Kubuntu likeback" option though11:20
tomaRiddell: we could do a knot release with likeback generallly enabled11:20
ryanakcaah11:20
seaLnein basket it just sort of floats in the app being a bit annoying11:20
seaLneyeah i don't think it would be suitable for final releases11:21
Riddellit should be in the About box for an app, but for general kubuntu feedback I don't know11:21
Riddelland then of course where would it go and who would process it11:21
alleeI would consider it nice to have.  But not worth the trouble at this stage or if it need  time or some risk11:21
seaLneone of the problems would be potentially dealing with lots of feedback11:21
seaLneyeah, maybe just worth keeping an eye on the progress of similar ideas11:22
alleewe have already enough feedback, haven't we? ;)11:22
tomaRiddell: the idea is that the user can give feedback on each dialog of an app, so putting it in the about seems useless11:22
Riddellyes, we do already get quite a bit of feedback on wiki pages and elsewhere11:22
Riddelltoma: oh, didn't realise that11:22
Riddellthat could all add up to a lot of feedback11:23
seaLneah have you not seen it? yeah thats the good part so feedback is about specific things11:23
tomaRiddell: that way people can give direct feedback about spelling errors etc11:23
Riddellright11:23
Tonio_hum, my questionning would be : how to filter all the information ?11:24
alleeMaybe 'enable feedback' in About to turn it on/off when needed.  quite some space for a feature one can't use all the time11:24
yuriyseems like a nice thing for individual applications to send to their developers, i don't think it'd work well centralized and/or for a distro11:24
Tonio_we should take care of that, since we already have forums, irc, mailing lists, wiki....11:24
seaLnehttp://basket.kde.org/likeback-data/icons.png shows how its on dialogs11:24
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Riddellwell if someone wants to code that so it's easy to add to apps that sounds fun, but it's not worth putting lots of time in to implement ourselves11:25
tomathis is a live demo of the backend http://toma.kovoks.nl/admin/view.php11:25
tomai opened it up i hope11:25
tomadont mess around please ;-)11:26
tomajust to give you an idea11:26
Riddellinteresting11:26
tomayou can quickly close them and pick out the things you want to fix11:27
tomai think you will receive feedback you would not get in another way11:27
ryanakcatoma: looks nice11:27
Riddelltoma: is it easy to add to applications?11:27
tomaRiddell: yes, just hang it in the main.cc 11:27
tomaRiddell: i think i can add it to kapplication to get it globally11:28
Riddellhmm, we'd need python bindings for most of our apps :)11:28
tomamaybe not if we put it in kapplication?11:28
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Tonio_toma: isn't there a risk that all bugs are reported there and miss launchpad ?11:29
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imbrandonre11:29
imbrandonsorry i'm late, traffic11:29
Riddellhi imbrandon, raphink 11:29
tomaTonio_: yes, we would need to forward port the real bugs to launchpad11:29
kwwiiHere is my part: who wants to help write the C code for the new usplash theme?11:29
Tonio_toma: I must say that's technically interesting, but I'm affraid that generates 90% of useless complains for 2% of interesting feedback11:30
ryanakcatoma: like manually or automaticly? (automaticly I presume? manually would be a pain)11:30
seaLnepresumably you'd just click something and it would do it11:30
tomaryanakca: its only for a knot release, and we can disable the bugreport feature11:30
ryanakcaTonio_: yeah11:30
Tonio_this is generally what happens when you ask people their thoughts, only crying pupils are responding... that's why I really doubt that's make us more efficient11:30
sladenkwwii: you shouldn't need to write /any/ C code11:30
tomaryanakca: so people can only send likes and dislikes11:30
raphinkhi Riddell11:31
tomaryanakca: but if we can automate it: fine11:31
kwwiisladen: you do if you want to have fun :-)11:31
sladenkwwii: is a structure (think, configure file) with things like "font-name", "width", "height"11:31
seaLnetoma: exciting launchpad xml-rpc stuff :)11:31
imbrandonsladen, i think Seveas said that the new stuff is code based11:31
kwwiiwell, my idea was to draw stuff using the primitive11:31
Tonio_ho sladen, happy to see you there, may I take 5 minutes of your time after the meeting ?11:31
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kwwiiso create a progress bar with a nice gradient using something like 6-8 boxes11:31
ryanakcaoooh :) sounds interesting 11:32
kwwiiI am just now dipping into what is involved, but having someone who commits to helping would be nice ;-)11:32
Riddellthis is off topic, we need to move on, if there's specific apps that can use likeback that would be fun for testing11:32
RiddellLure: about?11:32
Seveassladen, shinyness comes with neding more effort 11:33
Seveas(/me will be silent again)11:33
Riddelldigikam, yes but we need someone to do the other main inclusion reports, volunteers welcome11:33
ryanakcakwwii: I can't code... but I'm glad to try to help... and I think we're offtopic, I'll talk to you in -devel later, k?11:33
ryanakcasorry, but main inclusioon report?11:34
Riddellryanakca: a quickish report for sanity before packages can be moved from universe to main11:34
Tonio_Riddell: digikam provides an image viewer11:34
Riddellryanakca: I'll happily guide you through it if you want to volunteer11:34
Tonio_so if we don't want to duplicate gwenview, I would suggest to split the package first11:34
kwwiiryanakca: sounds great11:34
RiddellTonio_: agreed11:34
Tonio_because this image viewer is very primitive11:34
tomaTonio_: ?11:35
imbrandonkwwii, i can help soem also, sorry , i'm laggin a bit, and a bit late11:35
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tomaTonio_: showfoto is far from primitive11:35
alleeRiddell: I've talked with Gilles, lead digikam developer, we conclused that 0.9 is not a good idea code wise before 0.9 rc1 and only with rc1 i18n strings are frozen.  docs still in progress to be written11:35
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seaLneTonio_: dosen't digikam need its viewer?11:35
Tonio_toma: compared to gwenview it is11:35
Tonio_seaLne: no11:35
alleeTonio_: showfoto is designed to be an image editor not as a viewer11:35
tomaTonio_: try 0.9 ;-)11:35
allees/image/photo/11:36
Tonio_allee: we already ship with krita and gwenview, so I doubt showphoto is really a must have11:36
Tonio_toma: the point is we want to avoid duplicate stuff for simplicity11:36
tomaTonio_: sure11:37
Tonio_I think 90% of the people installing digikam are not interested by showphoto11:37
faboagreed with tonio on this point11:37
Tonio_we should in my view split the package and recomment or suggest showphoto11:37
alleeTonio_: I connected  image to photo11:37
imbrandonwhat about digital camera support though11:37
tomaallee: when is rc1?11:38
alleetoma: plan for mid october11:38
Riddelltoo late for us11:38
alleeRiddell: yes11:38
tomaok, we can move on then?11:38
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Riddellyep, volunteers welcome as I say11:38
alleeTonio_: I agree with the usage.  but a showfoto pkgs with just have the binary and an icon.  Not worth the trouble imho11:39
imbrandonRiddell, volunteers for ?11:39
Riddellimbrandon: for the main inclusion reports11:39
Tonio_allee: I agree, but that needs to be done before main inclusion report is written11:39
Tonio_Riddell: I volunteer for the job if you are okay11:39
RiddellTonio_: rocking :)11:39
Riddellok, moving on11:40
Riddellgdb, dunno how much space that takes up11:40
=== Tonio_ adds to todo list :)
kwwiiryanakca: sounds great11:40
kwwiioops11:40
Riddellif it's not too much I don't mind, we already had it for hoary 11:40
alleeTonio_: get and alioth account and submit changes directly ;)11:40
imbrandonTonio_, poke me if you need a hand also i can do /some/ of them11:40
Tonio_imbrandon: sure, thanks a lot :)11:41
tomavalid backtraces are crucial11:41
tomafor developers11:41
Riddell"Should power button on laptops show logout/shutdown/suspend/hibernate dialog instead of just calling shutdown"  yes please11:41
Tonio_Riddell: note that it seems to me digikam has universe deps....11:41
Tonio_but let move on11:41
RiddellTonio_: well yes, that's why we need mai inclusion reports11:41
tomaTonio_: 0.9 will add more ;-)11:41
alleegdb is of not much use without the -dbg pkgs.  So need a mechnisn to load the -dbg msg on demand and then it should not be hard to install gdb also11:42
Tonio_toma: argh...11:42
RiddellI'm not sure what sort of signal the power button sends to userspace, but that should be picked up by power manager11:42
imbrandonyea +1 on the logout instead of shutdown thing from me11:42
Riddellallee: that's a point11:42
Tonio_Riddell: +1 for me, that's usefull for people that are discovering laptop usage11:42
Tonio_it'll help them discovering suspending functionnalities11:43
tomaallee: yes, gdb depend on all -dbg packages11:43
BurgworkRiddell, the signal depends on the laptop, mostly it is acpi signals11:43
alleetoma: argl11:43
RiddellBurgwork: and doesn't acpi-support convert that into something standard?11:43
Riddellsladen: do you know?11:43
imbrandoni'm sure it does as *cough*windows*cough* does it 11:44
Riddellok, we'll look into that11:44
Riddellfabo: your item11:45
BurgworkRiddell, it should. That is why mjg59 exists11:45
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faboStrigi as Kubuntu File Search application ?11:45
tomaisn't there a beegle thingie already?11:45
fabowe've got beagle/kerry atm11:45
imbrandonimho i think we should use kerry/beagle11:45
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Tonio_hum, we need a search application and beagle packages are not splitted curently11:46
imbrandonas ubuntu uses ( and alot of other people ) use the beagle backend11:46
RiddellI'd really rather not have to depend on mono11:46
Tonio_so that they have lots of gnome dependancies11:46
Riddellhi Hobbsee 11:46
Tonio_that's an issue that prevents us from using beagle stuff11:46
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Riddellstrigi seems nice but when I used it it seemed unreliable11:46
imbrandonTonio_, well beagle backend and kerry frond end 11:46
Riddelland as with all these things the indexing takes ages and lots of disk space11:47
imbrandonRiddell, no mono ? ouch11:47
Tonio_imbrandon: beagle depends on gnome currently, that's the point...11:47
fabothe good point for beagle is just that it is used by ubuntu11:47
Hobbseeshoot, sorry guys11:47
Riddellbut I think it's worth considering for edgy+111:47
=== Hobbsee goes to look up how much she's missed
alleesharing a technology between gnome/kde is good as long as there not something kde'ish that much better (disclaimer: I do not know if strigi is superior)11:47
Tonio_strigi is very interesting I must say, but it looks fairly limited compared to what beagle+kerry/kio-beagle can provide11:48
imbrandonTonio_, we can split out the backend and front end packages like suse does , use beagle-backend + mono and kerry/qt for the front easy11:48
RiddellTonio_: limited in which way?11:48
Tonio_Riddell: UI is limited to me, compared to kerry11:48
RiddellTonio_: yes it is, I think that's being worked on11:48
fabostrigi next release comes next week, and is much more reliable11:48
imbrandondosent beagle index a whole lot more things too ?11:49
Tonio_Riddell: but I agree we should test this for edgy+1, since it is too late to test this now11:49
Riddellbut really a separate UI is never that useful, it needs integratoin with the desktop11:49
Riddellfabo: cool, we'll look forward to that11:49
Tonio_Riddell: I would love an ioslave hehe :)11:49
sladenRiddell: the power button generates an ACPI event, handled by acpid, dispatched via a socket, and the filter in /etc/acpi/events/powerbtn to /etc/acpi/powerbtn.sh11:49
imbrandonRiddell, the kickoff ( among other new stuff ) is intergrating beage backend11:49
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fabokbfx guys also integrate strigi now ;)11:49
sladenRiddell: HAL also sends out an event:  acpi_PWRF condition ButtonPressed = power11:50
Tonio_imbrandon: currently kickoff is a MESS11:50
faboimbrandon: they have introduced many more format since last release11:50
Tonio_imbrandon: have you looked at it ? ;)11:50
imbrandonTonio_, yea i have it compiled here11:50
imbrandonfabo, but thats unreleased code AND in universe11:51
imbrandonkbfx hasent released that yet and wont for a while they have to many branches to work out before the edgy release11:51
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faboimbrandon: will be released next week :) and we can ask main iclusion no ?11:51
fabosure, kbfx is another question ...11:52
imbrandonfabo, we can yes but thats a big change, i've been working on kbfx for months, its no where near ready for main11:52
Riddellfabo: I'd rather not have it in main for edgy, it's too new and untested11:52
faboimbrandon: i agree for kbfx11:52
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fabook :)11:53
imbrandonkbfx was my first kubuntu package and i still follow it very close trust me ;)11:53
faboimbrandon: me too ;)11:53
imbrandonits not ready for the lime light11:53
alleefabo: create updated pkgs announce the on #k-d for testing. If they enhanced _that_ much a main inclusion report is still possible11:53
faboallee: it must be showed at akademy11:54
Riddellit will be yes11:54
Riddelllets move on, it's edgy+1 material but we should definately keep an eye on it11:55
Riddellabattoir_: here?11:55
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JucatoHawkwind?11:55
HawkwindRiddell: He's having internet issues, badly11:55
Hawkwindhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuSupportTeam11:55
HawkwindI'd like for everyone to read that first and foremost as it tells what KST has in mind and planned for the future11:55
tomanice addition for kubuntu11:56
RiddellHawkwind: who's involved in this?11:56
HawkwindRiddell: Currently.....myself, Jucato, abattoir_ and Hobbsee has given her approval11:56
imbrandoni read it yeaterday, looks like a great idea, its just a matter of executing it11:56
HobbseeRiddell: Hawkwind Jucato abattoir_ 11:56
gnomefreakHawkwind: we can make #kubuntu only factoids11:57
Hobbseei thought i took more of the "how do you intend to make this happen?" 11:57
HawkwindRiddell: Over time of course we want more members as we see room for big improvements11:57
Hawkwindgnomefreak: As of a couple of days ago actually the three of us were given access to edit the bot, so that point has been covered11:57
gnomefreaki know11:57
gnomefreaki saw11:57
HawkwindHobbsee: My miswording really :)11:58
Jucatoit would also be a good way for non-coding users to be able to contribute in their own way, specially with documentation11:58
=== gnomefreak could have added you :)
RiddellHawkwind: can the bot give #kubuntu specific answers?11:58
Hobbseegnomefreak: if you were there, yes :P11:58
HobbseeRiddell: yep11:58
HawkwindRiddell: Yes11:58
gnomefreakRiddell: yes11:58
Riddellthat's handy11:58
imbrandonRiddell, yes 11:58
Jucatoyes11:58
nixternalwiki and documentation should probably be seperated..as there are already 'main' teams that take care of that, however you are more then welcome to contribute to both11:58
Tonio_Jucato: non coding users can contribute activelly, I'm the evidence of this :)11:58
HobbseeRiddell: [07:57]  <gnomefreak> Hawkwind: we can make #kubuntu only factoids11:58
HobbseeRiddell: we already do that with !ops11:58
gnomefreakRiddell: !ops in #kubuntu is same as !ops11:58
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Tonio_Jucato: not only docs11:58
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gnomefreakiirc there are a few so far that i know of11:59
faboTonio_: take a look at http://ubuntu-patches.sesse.net/ , it's interesting and there's space for improvements11:59
Tonio_fabo: added to bookmarks11:59
JucatoTonio_: yes, but usually they're also looking for a sort of entry point.11:59
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HawkwindOur goal is to work with the doc teams and others to help us grow and head in directions that maybe the doc team doesn't have time for on certain projects11:59
nixternalJucato: documentation is part of the Ubuntu Documentation Project, and it has always been open to contribute too. i do on a daily basis11:59
Tonio_Jucato: yes, we need to find better ways to invite people contributing, since I can tell it is hard story when you start at zero point12:00
Hawkwindnixternal: Our first goal is more centered around Kubuntu specific stuff.  Organizing the wiki so it's not so Ubuntu specific 12:00
nixternalHawkwind: myself, jjesse, trappist, and robotgeek are the main contributors to Kubuntu docs right now, however we could always use more help...i doubt you can get Kubuntu related docs to split from the main project12:01
RiddellHawkwind, Jucato: do you use kubuntuforums.net much?12:01
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Jucatonixternal: yes, we're not actually trying to start from ground zero with regards to documentation. we will be coordinating with the docu teams for that12:01
JucatoRiddell: yes, as much as I can12:01
claydohThats an area I could help with, i think12:01
imbrandonHawkwind, yea but that can be done as part of the doc team if you become a member, i think the "zero point of entry" though needs to be worked on12:01
HawkwindRiddell: Yes.  Being new I don't have many posts, but they are rapidly growing as I am there several times per day12:01
Jucatoclaydoh is a moderator of KFN12:01
RiddellJucato: are they are useful resource to people?12:01
nixternalimbrandon: +1 on that zero point of entry12:02
Hobbseenixternal: hopefully not to split.  i keep discouraging them from doing that :P12:02
claydohnot much moderating neede there yet :)12:02
nixternalgotcha Hobbsee ;)12:02
Hawkwindclaydoh: We want to change that, in a good way :)12:02
claydoh:)12:02
JucatoRiddell: I could say they are. specially when it comes to Kubuntu-specific issues/problems12:02
HawkwindYes, we do not want to take away from the Ubuntu forums/wiki at all.  We want to add to what we have for Kubuntu now as well as the Ubuntu stuff12:02
Riddellthat's good to hear12:02
BurgworkHawkwind, the doc team has been every dormant this release. We would love to have more people help us12:03
nixternalwiki work could also be collaborated with the Ubuntu Wiki Documentation Team, which is part of the Ubuntu Documentation Project as well12:03
nixternalbut as it stands, i know help.ubuntu.com/community is trying to be fairly generic and DE dependent in the tutorials as well12:03
claydohhow do we do this without some feeling there is duplication?12:03
HawkwindSo then I guess the 3 of us would need to apply for the doc team or whatever we need to do to become a member of that12:03
Jucatonixternal: that's another area we will try to work on. based on some posts in the forums, a lot of people aren't aware of what they can find in the wikis12:04
imbrandonHawkwind, i would say so12:04
Tonio_I would suggest everyone that reads a bit of french to have a look at docs.ubuntu-fr.org since their base is to me the most well organised concerning ubuntu12:04
Tonio_raphink: I'm sure you'll agree with this12:04
nixternalHawkwind: you don't need to apply or be a member..all you have to do is submit patches to the mailing list12:04
HawkwindWhat we really need is more Kubuntu specific stuff.  It seems so much is Ubuntu specific and that drives new users crazy when it doesn't work due to being Gnome apps the docs tell them to run12:05
nixternalyou can apply though if you would like..i kind of messed up that last sentence12:05
Tonio_the problem is nobody took in charge of merging it with global ubuntu docs12:05
nixternalHawkwind: you have to watch out as well, as the whole "seperating" the DE stuff has been beatin' quite a bit as well... imbrandon will tell you how i was when i first came around, as well as Riddell...i was dude Kubuntu FTW, we don't need them ;)12:06
Jucatoheh12:06
imbrandonHawkwind, sure, i 100% agree BUT that can be done as part of the existing teams if people know where to look, that in lies the problem12:06
Hawkwindnixternal: We do not want to 'seperate' at all though12:06
Tonio_I must say ubuntu wiki is really messy/unstructured to me....12:06
claydohwell it will happen no matter what imo12:06
alleeUbuntu and kubuntu docs should normally be generated from the same document.  Does ubuntu doc team still not like this?12:06
gnomefreakHawkwind: are you speaking of official docs or wikis?12:06
Riddellallee: they are, where it makes sense12:07
alleegood! ;)12:07
Hawkwindgnomefreak: More of a general basis.  Example...the facts in the bot point to Ubuntu specific stuff, we need to edit those pages to get them to be both, so that both Ubuntu/Kubuntu users can use them without failure12:07
alleebut when I follow this here there's much room for improvement12:07
JucatoThere are also some pages with Ubuntu-specific instructions only, like the Binary Driver Howto. 12:08
nixternalJucato: you are free to fix that you know ;)12:08
imbrandonthen fix it ;)12:08
nixternalhaha12:08
Jucatoyes :)12:08
gnomefreakHawkwind: make a list of some wikis you see that need it and feel free to email me the list 10 at a time or whatever adn ill fix them12:08
nixternalat least i was nice about it12:08
Jucatobut that's probably just one :)12:08
h3sp4wnAlot of the {k}ubuntu documentation I have read is incomplete (only do this no explanation of why)12:08
Hawkwindgnomefreak: I have no issues with fixing them myself12:08
Hobbseenixternal: we have that problem with the -motu people, too.12:08
Hobbseenixternal: it's not a good thing.12:09
alleeIs there a sort of Marker for kubuntu/ubuntu specific section?   So maybe wiki can later be enhanced to not display 'other DE' stuff12:09
nixternalJucato, Hawkwind > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiTeam    <- this is the current Wiki info right there, that is an open team if you needed to join, but you can also add stuff to those pages as well concerning splitting up some of the docs or adding to them for Kubuntu specifics12:10
FujitsuHobbsee, it /does/ hog the buildds... But I have no problems with it.12:10
gnomefreakthe commands are the same its when you get into the menus and stuff that change but most wikis are commands to run12:10
HobbseeFujitsu: er, what?12:10
FujitsuHobbsee, are you talking about a MOTU dislike of KDE?12:11
nixternalwe all know that w.u.c is argh! and we can use a lot of help to make it better...that is why there was a split to pull main documentation from the wiki and add it to h.u.c/community12:11
Hawkwindgnomefreak: Even a lot of the commands are different.  gksu gedit and kdesu kwrite12:11
imbrandonFujitsu, so does oo.o for that matter but thats not what were on atm12:11

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