[01:55] <brendonjt> !meeting-auckland
[01:57] <Burgwork> @now auckland
[01:57] <Ubugtu> Current time in Pacific/Auckland: September 07 2006, 11:57:51 - Next meeting: Kubuntu in 21 hours 2 minutes
[01:58] <Burgwork> @schedule auckland
[01:58] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Pacific/Auckland: 08 Sep 09:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Sep 08:00: Technical Board | 14 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Sep 00:00: Community Council
[01:58] <Burgwork> brendonjt, that should be what you need
[01:59] <brendonjt> cool thanks 
[06:58] <Hiko> Aloha
[06:59] <brendonjt> how was the meeting  on wednesday?
[07:01] <Burgundavia> brendonjt: which meeting? this channel is only for the actual meetings and is thus used by many teams
[07:01] <brendonjt> CC meeting
[07:02] <Burgundavia> brendonjt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/CC-2006-9-5
[07:03] <brendonjt> what is the @ command to find out the meeting time for your time zone
[07:04] <Burgundavia> @now auckland
[07:04] <Ubugtu> Current time in Pacific/Auckland: September 07 2006, 17:04:17 - Next meeting: Kubuntu in 15 hours 55 minutes
[07:04] <Burgundavia> @schedule auckland
[07:04] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Pacific/Auckland: 08 Sep 09:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Sep 08:00: Technical Board | 14 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Sep 00:00: Community Council
[07:04] <brendonjt> thankyou
[07:04] <Burgundavia> no worries
[07:04] <Burgundavia> I am also Burgwork
[05:29] <Lure> @schedule
[05:29] <Ubug2> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 07 Sep 21:00: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 20:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00: Community Council
[05:29] <Lure> @schedule ljubljana
[05:29] <Ubug2> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 07 Sep 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 14:00: Community Council
[10:30] <kdw>  /msg NickServ IDENTIFY wdkchat
[10:50] <ryanakca> eh? I missesd the kubuunt umeeting?
[10:50] <Jucato> O_O
[10:50] <Hawkwind> ryanakca: No, 9 minutes
[10:51] <ryanakca> so it starts in 9? or I've missed it? (I'm just wondering because Ubugtu changed the topic)
[10:51] <ryanakca> missed 9 minutes that is
[10:52] <Hawkwind> It starts in 9 minutes
[10:52] <Hawkwind> He changes the topic 10 minutes before the meeting starts
[10:52] <ryanakca> ah
[10:54] <Hawkwind> Yaaaaayyyyyy for abattoir
[10:55] <abattoir> the meeting hasnt started yet, has it?
[10:55] <Hawkwind> abattoir: 4 minutes
[10:55] <Hawkwind> @time
[10:55] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 07 2006, 20:55:44 - Current meeting: Kubuntu
[10:55] <Jucato> not yet... we've been wating for you :)
[10:55] <Jucato> that's why it hasn't started :)
[10:55] <abattoir> on time, i guess then :)
[10:56] <nixternal> jeesh, countin' down like you are waiting for your methadone shots
[10:56] <Jucato> lol
[11:00] <claydoh> wow I made it :)
[11:00] <Jucato> lol
[11:00] <Hawkwind> Wow, so you did :)
[11:01] <Riddell> good evening all
[11:01] <Hawkwind> Good afternoon
[11:01] <Jucato> morning! :)
[11:01] <Riddell> how many council members do we have here?
[11:01] <Riddell> Tonio_? allee? 
[11:02] <nixternal> well hello there everbody!
[11:02] <Riddell> hobbsee seems to be asleep
[11:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: mother at phone, back in 3 minutes approx :)
[11:03] <Riddell> hmm, we need three for membership stuff, need to wait until Tonio_ or someone turns up
[11:03] <Riddell> ah, Tonio_!
[11:03] <nixternal> hehe
[11:03] <allee> toma ping?
[11:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: just 3 minutes, let him introduce, I'm reading at the same time
[11:03] <Riddell> ok, fabo here?
[11:04] <allee> hi fabo
[11:04] <fabo> hi allee , all :)
[11:04] <Riddell> fabo: do you have a wiki page?
[11:04] <fabo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FathiBoudra
[11:04] <kwwii> I am, of course, hee
[11:04] <kwwii> here
[11:04] <allee> hi kwwii 
[11:05] <Riddell> fabo: got a couple of lines to introduce yourself?
[11:05] <fabo> sure
[11:06] <fabo> so my name is fathi ;)
[11:06] <fabo> i contribute on debian and kubuntu
[11:06] <fabo> following KDE stuff
[11:07] <fabo> already memnber of debian qt/kde and kde extras team
[11:07] <toma> fabo: where do you get the time to do all that debian work?
[11:08] <fabo> toma: i work in a company that allow me to do some distro stuff
[11:08] <toma> oh cool
[11:08] <allee> great
[11:08] <Tonio_> fabo: quite a lot of chance :)
[11:09] <fabo> so this is the bug lines ... ;)
[11:09] <fabo> big
[11:09] <Riddell> fabo: are you satisfied with the way we communicate changes in kubuntu packages back to debian?
[11:09] <fabo> Riddell: yes but i hate launchpad ;)
[11:10] <Tonio_> fabo: technical reasons ?
[11:10] <fabo> i'm use often mail interface, and launchpad is really a web interface
[11:10] <fabo> -'m
[11:11] <Tonio_> fabo: launchpad is able to send mails too ;)
[11:11] <Riddell> each to their own, I can't stand e-mail as an application interface
[11:11] <Tonio_> fabo: what do you think we should do to improve the communication between kubuntu and debian ?
[11:11] <fabo> i tried to follow the wiki page about mail interface but seems buggy
[11:12] <fabo> Tonio_: some time ago i found an rss feed that return ubuntu patch
[11:12] <fabo> quite usefull
[11:12] <allee> fabo: why did you decide to work too on Kubuntu in addition to debian?
[11:13] <Tonio_> fabo: interesting, I didn't heard about that
[11:13] <toma> good question
[11:13] <fabo> allee: because i'm a kde desktop guy and debian lack on this part
[11:14] <fabo> kde is more polished for end user for the desktop
[11:14] <Riddell> ok, time for votes I think
[11:14] <toma> fabo: so you want to move away from debian?
[11:15] <Tonio_> ok for me since fabo contributed consistenly on packages, like kaffeine + many more
[11:15] <fabo> toma: never :)
[11:15] <toma> ;-)
[11:15] <fabo> toma: from my wiki page : I'm sharing utnubu ideas, i like Debian/Kubuntu, both worlds, i don't want to choose between the two and a big KDE addict.
[11:15] <Tonio_> although it is important to make the debian/kubuntu link strong and fabo is greatly improving this
[11:16] <toma> i agree to that
[11:16] <toma> but i've not seen fabo very presently on irc or somethign
[11:17] <Riddell> +1 from me for a long list of packages and for making the cmake.mk cdbs file which workead perfectly in my kde 4 packages
[11:17] <Riddell> toma: he is on irc a good bit
[11:17] <fabo> toma: i agree, unfortunately i've got more than 40 channel to follow :)
[11:17] <Tonio_> toma: he sometimes reguarding to the packages he maintains, and I can confirm he follows their good working in kubuntu
[11:17] <allee> fabo: crazy
[11:17] <Tonio_> fabo: welcome aboard :)
[11:18] <fabo> thanks all :)
[11:18] <Riddell> did toma vote?
[11:18] <toma> +1 for me, for the work i know from debian and hope to see the same in kubuntu ;-)
[11:18] <allee> fabo: congrats
[11:18] <Riddell> yay!
[11:18] <toma> yes ;-)
[11:18] <fabo> :))
[11:18] <ryanakca> congrats :))
[11:18] <toma> fabo: did you sign the coc ?
[11:18] <fabo> toma: yes
[11:18] <toma> k
[11:18] <Riddell> thanks for helping fabo 
[11:18] <Riddell> seaLne: about?
[11:18] <seaLne> yes
[11:18] <Riddell> your item
[11:19] <Riddell> likeback
[11:19] <seaLne> is [WWW]  likeback worth considering? apparently kde-core-devel is considering something similar/different 
[11:19] <ryanakca> toma: don't you have to? (If your going to upload to the repos that is)
[11:19] <allee> ryanakca: he's not a MOTU (yet)
[11:19] <toma> ryanakca: yes, i have one app running with likeback
[11:19] <seaLne> i'm not sure how many of you have seen http://basket.kde.org/likeback.php but it seems like a good idea to get granular feedback
[11:20] <Riddell> this is a quick feedback mechanism for users to developers
[11:20] <toma> ryanakca: but it is small and have not got any reactions
[11:20] <Riddell> I'm not sure where we'd put a "Kubuntu likeback" option though
[11:20] <toma> Riddell: we could do a knot release with likeback generallly enabled
[11:20] <ryanakca> ah
[11:20] <seaLne> in basket it just sort of floats in the app being a bit annoying
[11:21] <seaLne> yeah i don't think it would be suitable for final releases
[11:21] <Riddell> it should be in the About box for an app, but for general kubuntu feedback I don't know
[11:21] <Riddell> and then of course where would it go and who would process it
[11:21] <allee> I would consider it nice to have.  But not worth the trouble at this stage or if it need  time or some risk
[11:21] <seaLne> one of the problems would be potentially dealing with lots of feedback
[11:22] <seaLne> yeah, maybe just worth keeping an eye on the progress of similar ideas
[11:22] <allee> we have already enough feedback, haven't we? ;)
[11:22] <toma> Riddell: the idea is that the user can give feedback on each dialog of an app, so putting it in the about seems useless
[11:22] <Riddell> yes, we do already get quite a bit of feedback on wiki pages and elsewhere
[11:22] <Riddell> toma: oh, didn't realise that
[11:23] <Riddell> that could all add up to a lot of feedback
[11:23] <seaLne> ah have you not seen it? yeah thats the good part so feedback is about specific things
[11:23] <toma> Riddell: that way people can give direct feedback about spelling errors etc
[11:23] <Riddell> right
[11:24] <Tonio_> hum, my questionning would be : how to filter all the information ?
[11:24] <allee> Maybe 'enable feedback' in About to turn it on/off when needed.  quite some space for a feature one can't use all the time
[11:24] <yuriy> seems like a nice thing for individual applications to send to their developers, i don't think it'd work well centralized and/or for a distro
[11:24] <Tonio_> we should take care of that, since we already have forums, irc, mailing lists, wiki....
[11:24] <seaLne> http://basket.kde.org/likeback-data/icons.png shows how its on dialogs
[11:25] <Riddell> well if someone wants to code that so it's easy to add to apps that sounds fun, but it's not worth putting lots of time in to implement ourselves
[11:25] <toma> this is a live demo of the backend http://toma.kovoks.nl/admin/view.php
[11:25] <toma> i opened it up i hope
[11:26] <toma> dont mess around please ;-)
[11:26] <toma> just to give you an idea
[11:26] <Riddell> interesting
[11:27] <toma> you can quickly close them and pick out the things you want to fix
[11:27] <toma> i think you will receive feedback you would not get in another way
[11:27] <ryanakca> toma: looks nice
[11:27] <Riddell> toma: is it easy to add to applications?
[11:27] <toma> Riddell: yes, just hang it in the main.cc 
[11:28] <toma> Riddell: i think i can add it to kapplication to get it globally
[11:28] <Riddell> hmm, we'd need python bindings for most of our apps :)
[11:28] <toma> maybe not if we put it in kapplication?
[11:29] <Tonio_> toma: isn't there a risk that all bugs are reported there and miss launchpad ?
[11:29] <imbrandon> re
[11:29] <imbrandon> sorry i'm late, traffic
[11:29] <Riddell> hi imbrandon, raphink 
[11:29] <toma> Tonio_: yes, we would need to forward port the real bugs to launchpad
[11:29] <kwwii> Here is my part: who wants to help write the C code for the new usplash theme?
[11:30] <Tonio_> toma: I must say that's technically interesting, but I'm affraid that generates 90% of useless complains for 2% of interesting feedback
[11:30] <ryanakca> toma: like manually or automaticly? (automaticly I presume? manually would be a pain)
[11:30] <seaLne> presumably you'd just click something and it would do it
[11:30] <toma> ryanakca: its only for a knot release, and we can disable the bugreport feature
[11:30] <ryanakca> Tonio_: yeah
[11:30] <Tonio_> this is generally what happens when you ask people their thoughts, only crying pupils are responding... that's why I really doubt that's make us more efficient
[11:30] <sladen> kwwii: you shouldn't need to write /any/ C code
[11:30] <toma> ryanakca: so people can only send likes and dislikes
[11:31] <raphink> hi Riddell
[11:31] <toma> ryanakca: but if we can automate it: fine
[11:31] <kwwii> sladen: you do if you want to have fun :-)
[11:31] <sladen> kwwii: is a structure (think, configure file) with things like "font-name", "width", "height"
[11:31] <seaLne> toma: exciting launchpad xml-rpc stuff :)
[11:31] <imbrandon> sladen, i think Seveas said that the new stuff is code based
[11:31] <kwwii> well, my idea was to draw stuff using the primitive
[11:31] <Tonio_> ho sladen, happy to see you there, may I take 5 minutes of your time after the meeting ?
[11:31] <kwwii> so create a progress bar with a nice gradient using something like 6-8 boxes
[11:32] <ryanakca> oooh :) sounds interesting 
[11:32] <kwwii> I am just now dipping into what is involved, but having someone who commits to helping would be nice ;-)
[11:32] <Riddell> this is off topic, we need to move on, if there's specific apps that can use likeback that would be fun for testing
[11:32] <Riddell> Lure: about?
[11:33] <Seveas> sladen, shinyness comes with neding more effort 
[11:33] <Seveas> (/me will be silent again)
[11:33] <Riddell> digikam, yes but we need someone to do the other main inclusion reports, volunteers welcome
[11:33] <ryanakca> kwwii: I can't code... but I'm glad to try to help... and I think we're offtopic, I'll talk to you in -devel later, k?
[11:34] <ryanakca> sorry, but main inclusioon report?
[11:34] <Riddell> ryanakca: a quickish report for sanity before packages can be moved from universe to main
[11:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: digikam provides an image viewer
[11:34] <Riddell> ryanakca: I'll happily guide you through it if you want to volunteer
[11:34] <Tonio_> so if we don't want to duplicate gwenview, I would suggest to split the package first
[11:34] <kwwii> ryanakca: sounds great
[11:34] <Riddell> Tonio_: agreed
[11:34] <Tonio_> because this image viewer is very primitive
[11:35] <toma> Tonio_: ?
[11:35] <imbrandon> kwwii, i can help soem also, sorry , i'm laggin a bit, and a bit late
[11:35] <toma> Tonio_: showfoto is far from primitive
[11:35] <allee> Riddell: I've talked with Gilles, lead digikam developer, we conclused that 0.9 is not a good idea code wise before 0.9 rc1 and only with rc1 i18n strings are frozen.  docs still in progress to be written
[11:35] <seaLne> Tonio_: dosen't digikam need its viewer?
[11:35] <Tonio_> toma: compared to gwenview it is
[11:35] <Tonio_> seaLne: no
[11:35] <allee> Tonio_: showfoto is designed to be an image editor not as a viewer
[11:35] <toma> Tonio_: try 0.9 ;-)
[11:36] <allee> s/image/photo/
[11:36] <Tonio_> allee: we already ship with krita and gwenview, so I doubt showphoto is really a must have
[11:36] <Tonio_> toma: the point is we want to avoid duplicate stuff for simplicity
[11:37] <toma> Tonio_: sure
[11:37] <Tonio_> I think 90% of the people installing digikam are not interested by showphoto
[11:37] <fabo> agreed with tonio on this point
[11:37] <Tonio_> we should in my view split the package and recomment or suggest showphoto
[11:37] <allee> Tonio_: I connected  image to photo
[11:37] <imbrandon> what about digital camera support though
[11:38] <toma> allee: when is rc1?
[11:38] <allee> toma: plan for mid october
[11:38] <Riddell> too late for us
[11:38] <allee> Riddell: yes
[11:38] <toma> ok, we can move on then?
[11:38] <Riddell> yep, volunteers welcome as I say
[11:39] <allee> Tonio_: I agree with the usage.  but a showfoto pkgs with just have the binary and an icon.  Not worth the trouble imho
[11:39] <imbrandon> Riddell, volunteers for ?
[11:39] <Riddell> imbrandon: for the main inclusion reports
[11:39] <Tonio_> allee: I agree, but that needs to be done before main inclusion report is written
[11:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: I volunteer for the job if you are okay
[11:39] <Riddell> Tonio_: rocking :)
[11:40] <Riddell> ok, moving on
[11:40] <Riddell> gdb, dunno how much space that takes up
[11:40] <kwwii> ryanakca: sounds great
[11:40] <kwwii> oops
[11:40] <Riddell> if it's not too much I don't mind, we already had it for hoary 
[11:40] <allee> Tonio_: get and alioth account and submit changes directly ;)
[11:40] <imbrandon> Tonio_, poke me if you need a hand also i can do /some/ of them
[11:41] <Tonio_> imbrandon: sure, thanks a lot :)
[11:41] <toma> valid backtraces are crucial
[11:41] <toma> for developers
[11:41] <Riddell> "Should power button on laptops show logout/shutdown/suspend/hibernate dialog instead of just calling shutdown"  yes please
[11:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: note that it seems to me digikam has universe deps....
[11:41] <Tonio_> but let move on
[11:41] <Riddell> Tonio_: well yes, that's why we need mai inclusion reports
[11:41] <toma> Tonio_: 0.9 will add more ;-)
[11:42] <allee> gdb is of not much use without the -dbg pkgs.  So need a mechnisn to load the -dbg msg on demand and then it should not be hard to install gdb also
[11:42] <Tonio_> toma: argh...
[11:42] <Riddell> I'm not sure what sort of signal the power button sends to userspace, but that should be picked up by power manager
[11:42] <imbrandon> yea +1 on the logout instead of shutdown thing from me
[11:42] <Riddell> allee: that's a point
[11:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: +1 for me, that's usefull for people that are discovering laptop usage
[11:43] <Tonio_> it'll help them discovering suspending functionnalities
[11:43] <toma> allee: yes, gdb depend on all -dbg packages
[11:43] <Burgwork> Riddell, the signal depends on the laptop, mostly it is acpi signals
[11:43] <allee> toma: argl
[11:43] <Riddell> Burgwork: and doesn't acpi-support convert that into something standard?
[11:43] <Riddell> sladen: do you know?
[11:44] <imbrandon> i'm sure it does as *cough*windows*cough* does it 
[11:44] <Riddell> ok, we'll look into that
[11:45] <Riddell> fabo: your item
[11:45] <Burgwork> Riddell, it should. That is why mjg59 exists
[11:45] <fabo> Strigi as Kubuntu File Search application ?
[11:45] <toma> isn't there a beegle thingie already?
[11:45] <fabo> we've got beagle/kerry atm
[11:45] <imbrandon> imho i think we should use kerry/beagle
[11:46] <Tonio_> hum, we need a search application and beagle packages are not splitted curently
[11:46] <imbrandon> as ubuntu uses ( and alot of other people ) use the beagle backend
[11:46] <Riddell> I'd really rather not have to depend on mono
[11:46] <Tonio_> so that they have lots of gnome dependancies
[11:46] <Riddell> hi Hobbsee 
[11:46] <Tonio_> that's an issue that prevents us from using beagle stuff
[11:46] <Riddell> strigi seems nice but when I used it it seemed unreliable
[11:46] <imbrandon> Tonio_, well beagle backend and kerry frond end 
[11:47] <Riddell> and as with all these things the indexing takes ages and lots of disk space
[11:47] <imbrandon> Riddell, no mono ? ouch
[11:47] <Tonio_> imbrandon: beagle depends on gnome currently, that's the point...
[11:47] <fabo> the good point for beagle is just that it is used by ubuntu
[11:47] <Hobbsee> shoot, sorry guys
[11:47] <Riddell> but I think it's worth considering for edgy+1
[11:47] <allee> sharing a technology between gnome/kde is good as long as there not something kde'ish that much better (disclaimer: I do not know if strigi is superior)
[11:48] <Tonio_> strigi is very interesting I must say, but it looks fairly limited compared to what beagle+kerry/kio-beagle can provide
[11:48] <imbrandon> Tonio_, we can split out the backend and front end packages like suse does , use beagle-backend + mono and kerry/qt for the front easy
[11:48] <Riddell> Tonio_: limited in which way?
[11:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: UI is limited to me, compared to kerry
[11:48] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes it is, I think that's being worked on
[11:48] <fabo> strigi next release comes next week, and is much more reliable
[11:49] <imbrandon> dosent beagle index a whole lot more things too ?
[11:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: but I agree we should test this for edgy+1, since it is too late to test this now
[11:49] <Riddell> but really a separate UI is never that useful, it needs integratoin with the desktop
[11:49] <Riddell> fabo: cool, we'll look forward to that
[11:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: I would love an ioslave hehe :)
[11:49] <sladen> Riddell: the power button generates an ACPI event, handled by acpid, dispatched via a socket, and the filter in /etc/acpi/events/powerbtn to /etc/acpi/powerbtn.sh
[11:49] <imbrandon> Riddell, the kickoff ( among other new stuff ) is intergrating beage backend
[11:49] <fabo> kbfx guys also integrate strigi now ;)
[11:50] <sladen> Riddell: HAL also sends out an event:  acpi_PWRF condition ButtonPressed = power
[11:50] <Tonio_> imbrandon: currently kickoff is a MESS
[11:50] <fabo> imbrandon: they have introduced many more format since last release
[11:50] <Tonio_> imbrandon: have you looked at it ? ;)
[11:50] <imbrandon> Tonio_, yea i have it compiled here
[11:51] <imbrandon> fabo, but thats unreleased code AND in universe
[11:51] <imbrandon> kbfx hasent released that yet and wont for a while they have to many branches to work out before the edgy release
[11:51] <fabo> imbrandon: will be released next week :) and we can ask main iclusion no ?
[11:52] <fabo> sure, kbfx is another question ...
[11:52] <imbrandon> fabo, we can yes but thats a big change, i've been working on kbfx for months, its no where near ready for main
[11:52] <Riddell> fabo: I'd rather not have it in main for edgy, it's too new and untested
[11:52] <fabo> imbrandon: i agree for kbfx
[11:53] <fabo> ok :)
[11:53] <imbrandon> kbfx was my first kubuntu package and i still follow it very close trust me ;)
[11:53] <fabo> imbrandon: me too ;)
[11:53] <imbrandon> its not ready for the lime light
[11:53] <allee> fabo: create updated pkgs announce the on #k-d for testing. If they enhanced _that_ much a main inclusion report is still possible
[11:54] <fabo> allee: it must be showed at akademy
[11:54] <Riddell> it will be yes
[11:55] <Riddell> lets move on, it's edgy+1 material but we should definately keep an eye on it
[11:55] <Riddell> abattoir_: here?
[11:55] <Jucato> Hawkwind?
[11:55] <Hawkwind> Riddell: He's having internet issues, badly
[11:55] <Hawkwind> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuSupportTeam
[11:55] <Hawkwind> I'd like for everyone to read that first and foremost as it tells what KST has in mind and planned for the future
[11:56] <toma> nice addition for kubuntu
[11:56] <Riddell> Hawkwind: who's involved in this?
[11:56] <Hawkwind> Riddell: Currently.....myself, Jucato, abattoir_ and Hobbsee has given her approval
[11:56] <imbrandon> i read it yeaterday, looks like a great idea, its just a matter of executing it
[11:56] <Hobbsee> Riddell: Hawkwind Jucato abattoir_ 
[11:57] <gnomefreak> Hawkwind: we can make #kubuntu only factoids
[11:57] <Hobbsee> i thought i took more of the "how do you intend to make this happen?" 
[11:57] <Hawkwind> Riddell: Over time of course we want more members as we see room for big improvements
[11:57] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: As of a couple of days ago actually the three of us were given access to edit the bot, so that point has been covered
[11:57] <gnomefreak> i know
[11:57] <gnomefreak> i saw
[11:58] <Hawkwind> Hobbsee: My miswording really :)
[11:58] <Jucato> it would also be a good way for non-coding users to be able to contribute in their own way, specially with documentation
[11:58] <Riddell> Hawkwind: can the bot give #kubuntu specific answers?
[11:58] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: if you were there, yes :P
[11:58] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yep
[11:58] <Hawkwind> Riddell: Yes
[11:58] <gnomefreak> Riddell: yes
[11:58] <Riddell> that's handy
[11:58] <imbrandon> Riddell, yes 
[11:58] <Jucato> yes
[11:58] <nixternal> wiki and documentation should probably be seperated..as there are already 'main' teams that take care of that, however you are more then welcome to contribute to both
[11:58] <Tonio_> Jucato: non coding users can contribute activelly, I'm the evidence of this :)
[11:58] <Hobbsee> Riddell: [07:57]  <gnomefreak> Hawkwind: we can make #kubuntu only factoids
[11:58] <Hobbsee> Riddell: we already do that with !ops
[11:58] <gnomefreak> Riddell: !ops in #kubuntu is same as !ops
[11:58] <Tonio_> Jucato: not only docs
[11:59] <gnomefreak> iirc there are a few so far that i know of
[11:59] <fabo> Tonio_: take a look at http://ubuntu-patches.sesse.net/ , it's interesting and there's space for improvements
[11:59] <Tonio_> fabo: added to bookmarks
[11:59] <Jucato> Tonio_: yes, but usually they're also looking for a sort of entry point.
[11:59] <Hawkwind> Our goal is to work with the doc teams and others to help us grow and head in directions that maybe the doc team doesn't have time for on certain projects
[11:59] <nixternal> Jucato: documentation is part of the Ubuntu Documentation Project, and it has always been open to contribute too. i do on a daily basis
[12:00] <Tonio_> Jucato: yes, we need to find better ways to invite people contributing, since I can tell it is hard story when you start at zero point
[12:00] <Hawkwind> nixternal: Our first goal is more centered around Kubuntu specific stuff.  Organizing the wiki so it's not so Ubuntu specific 
[12:01] <nixternal> Hawkwind: myself, jjesse, trappist, and robotgeek are the main contributors to Kubuntu docs right now, however we could always use more help...i doubt you can get Kubuntu related docs to split from the main project
[12:01] <Riddell> Hawkwind, Jucato: do you use kubuntuforums.net much?
[12:01] <Jucato> nixternal: yes, we're not actually trying to start from ground zero with regards to documentation. we will be coordinating with the docu teams for that
[12:01] <Jucato> Riddell: yes, as much as I can
[12:01] <claydoh> Thats an area I could help with, i think
[12:01] <imbrandon> Hawkwind, yea but that can be done as part of the doc team if you become a member, i think the "zero point of entry" though needs to be worked on
[12:01] <Hawkwind> Riddell: Yes.  Being new I don't have many posts, but they are rapidly growing as I am there several times per day
[12:01] <Jucato> claydoh is a moderator of KFN
[12:01] <Riddell> Jucato: are they are useful resource to people?
[12:02] <nixternal> imbrandon: +1 on that zero point of entry
[12:02] <Hobbsee> nixternal: hopefully not to split.  i keep discouraging them from doing that :P
[12:02] <claydoh> not much moderating neede there yet :)
[12:02] <nixternal> gotcha Hobbsee ;)
[12:02] <Hawkwind> claydoh: We want to change that, in a good way :)
[12:02] <claydoh> :)
[12:02] <Jucato> Riddell: I could say they are. specially when it comes to Kubuntu-specific issues/problems
[12:02] <Hawkwind> Yes, we do not want to take away from the Ubuntu forums/wiki at all.  We want to add to what we have for Kubuntu now as well as the Ubuntu stuff
[12:02] <Riddell> that's good to hear
[12:03] <Burgwork> Hawkwind, the doc team has been every dormant this release. We would love to have more people help us
[12:03] <nixternal> wiki work could also be collaborated with the Ubuntu Wiki Documentation Team, which is part of the Ubuntu Documentation Project as well
[12:03] <nixternal> but as it stands, i know help.ubuntu.com/community is trying to be fairly generic and DE dependent in the tutorials as well
[12:03] <claydoh> how do we do this without some feeling there is duplication?
[12:03] <Hawkwind> So then I guess the 3 of us would need to apply for the doc team or whatever we need to do to become a member of that
[12:04] <Jucato> nixternal: that's another area we will try to work on. based on some posts in the forums, a lot of people aren't aware of what they can find in the wikis
[12:04] <imbrandon> Hawkwind, i would say so
[12:04] <Tonio_> I would suggest everyone that reads a bit of french to have a look at docs.ubuntu-fr.org since their base is to me the most well organised concerning ubuntu
[12:04] <Tonio_> raphink: I'm sure you'll agree with this
[12:04] <nixternal> Hawkwind: you don't need to apply or be a member..all you have to do is submit patches to the mailing list
[12:05] <Hawkwind> What we really need is more Kubuntu specific stuff.  It seems so much is Ubuntu specific and that drives new users crazy when it doesn't work due to being Gnome apps the docs tell them to run
[12:05] <nixternal> you can apply though if you would like..i kind of messed up that last sentence
[12:05] <Tonio_> the problem is nobody took in charge of merging it with global ubuntu docs
[12:06] <nixternal> Hawkwind: you have to watch out as well, as the whole "seperating" the DE stuff has been beatin' quite a bit as well... imbrandon will tell you how i was when i first came around, as well as Riddell...i was dude Kubuntu FTW, we don't need them ;)
[12:06] <Jucato> heh
[12:06] <imbrandon> Hawkwind, sure, i 100% agree BUT that can be done as part of the existing teams if people know where to look, that in lies the problem
[12:06] <Hawkwind> nixternal: We do not want to 'seperate' at all though
[12:06] <Tonio_> I must say ubuntu wiki is really messy/unstructured to me....
[12:06] <claydoh> well it will happen no matter what imo
[12:06] <allee> Ubuntu and kubuntu docs should normally be generated from the same document.  Does ubuntu doc team still not like this?
[12:06] <gnomefreak> Hawkwind: are you speaking of official docs or wikis?
[12:07] <Riddell> allee: they are, where it makes sense
[12:07] <allee> good! ;)
[12:07] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: More of a general basis.  Example...the facts in the bot point to Ubuntu specific stuff, we need to edit those pages to get them to be both, so that both Ubuntu/Kubuntu users can use them without failure
[12:07] <allee> but when I follow this here there's much room for improvement
[12:08] <Jucato> There are also some pages with Ubuntu-specific instructions only, like the Binary Driver Howto. 
[12:08] <nixternal> Jucato: you are free to fix that you know ;)
[12:08] <imbrandon> then fix it ;)
[12:08] <nixternal> haha
[12:08] <Jucato> yes :)
[12:08] <gnomefreak> Hawkwind: make a list of some wikis you see that need it and feel free to email me the list 10 at a time or whatever adn ill fix them
[12:08] <nixternal> at least i was nice about it
[12:08] <Jucato> but that's probably just one :)
[12:08] <h3sp4wn> Alot of the {k}ubuntu documentation I have read is incomplete (only do this no explanation of why)
[12:08] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: I have no issues with fixing them myself
[12:08] <Hobbsee> nixternal: we have that problem with the -motu people, too.
[12:09] <Hobbsee> nixternal: it's not a good thing.
[12:09] <allee> Is there a sort of Marker for kubuntu/ubuntu specific section?   So maybe wiki can later be enhanced to not display 'other DE' stuff
[12:10] <nixternal> Jucato, Hawkwind > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiTeam    <- this is the current Wiki info right there, that is an open team if you needed to join, but you can also add stuff to those pages as well concerning splitting up some of the docs or adding to them for Kubuntu specifics
[12:10] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, it /does/ hog the buildds... But I have no problems with it.
[12:10] <gnomefreak> the commands are the same its when you get into the menus and stuff that change but most wikis are commands to run
[12:10] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: er, what?
[12:11] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, are you talking about a MOTU dislike of KDE?
[12:11] <nixternal> we all know that w.u.c is argh! and we can use a lot of help to make it better...that is why there was a split to pull main documentation from the wiki and add it to h.u.c/community
[12:11] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: Even a lot of the commands are different.  gksu gedit and kdesu kwrite
[12:11] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, so does oo.o for that matter but thats not what were on atm