Hawkwind | If the user doesn't have the Gnome stuff installed, he gets frustrated because the wiki is giving false info | 12:11 |
---|---|---|
Fujitsu | OK, /me shuts up. | 12:11 |
Hobbsee | Fujitsu: effectively, and that the people in #kubuntu-devel only tend to do kde based packages, instead of any and all | 12:11 |
Hobbsee | sorry, still waking up here | 12:11 |
nixternal | hehe | 12:12 |
gnomefreak | Hawkwind: ive been seeing alot of wikis saying open your fav. text editor (i dont like it but thats what people have been doing) | 12:12 |
Hawkwind | gnomefreak: Even that we need to change IMO | 12:12 |
nixternal | gnomefreak: you have to look over the Doc style guide as well, since that is what they really wanted to style the wiki after as well | 12:12 |
Hawkwind | A lot of users have no idea what editor exists in Linux | 12:12 |
imbrandon | Hawkwind, ok i still dont see this as a problem as you come accross them fixem ? | 12:12 |
nixternal | but i agree with you, the "favorite text editor" is annoying | 12:12 |
gnomefreak | agreed it would be nice for them to have the pastable command | 12:12 |
nixternal | because someone might not know about kate or kwrite, let alone nano, vi, vim and so forth | 12:13 |
Hawkwind | imbrandon: Yes. abattoir had a lot more specific stuff to say...I wasn't really prepared to speak on this subject :) | 12:13 |
nixternal | ok...i think this has been beaten enough ;) | 12:13 |
toma | Hawkwind: a general replace gksu/kdesu does not seem very difficult for me as a bystander | 12:13 |
Riddell | KST dudes: is there anything you need from us? | 12:13 |
Jucato | imbrandon: fixing the docs/wikis is just one of the things we'd like to do. another is to coordinate this little bits and pieces of information and make sure that they blend together as a whole | 12:13 |
gnomefreak | toma: its not | 12:13 |
Hawkwind | Riddell: At the moment I can't think of anything. I'll let abattoir speak to you or others about that when he's here next | 12:13 |
imbrandon | Jucato, sure and i said i 100% agree, go for it, i just urged you do it within the teams already established | 12:14 |
Tonio_ | Jucato: that requires defining the bases of a support branch in the wiki, since it went to all directions till now | 12:14 |
nixternal | Hawkwind, Jucato, and abattoir, i would also recommend you talk to Burgwork / Burgundavia, or mdke when you get a chance as well concerning the wiki and documentation... #ubuntu-doc is their hangout | 12:14 |
Hawkwind | nixternal: Noted | 12:15 |
Jucato | added to auto-join :) | 12:15 |
allee | One wish: if browser-identification is 'konqueor' css color should be blue! | 12:15 |
nixternal | believe me when i say, you open up the can or worms on the wiki though in the channel, prepare to work for 11 days straight ;) | 12:15 |
Riddell | I'm very happy to see an inititive to ensure community support is as good for kubuntu as it is for ubuntu | 12:15 |
Tonio_ | allee: hehe ;) | 12:15 |
nixternal | or even 40 days and 40 nights ;) | 12:15 |
Riddell | make sure you work with or within the existing teams and everyone will be happy | 12:15 |
nixternal | Riddell: +1 | 12:16 |
Hobbsee | +1 Riddell | 12:16 |
Tonio_ | yes, I agree | 12:16 |
=== nixternal notes that i have been there done that, and stepped on some toes...just trying to make sure others don't step on them sore toes i already did ;) | ||
allee | +1 Riddell | 12:16 |
Riddell | and a paragraph for UWN would be cool too | 12:16 |
nixternal | Riddell: i lost that, my fault there ;( | 12:16 |
claydoh | +1 nixternal | 12:16 |
toma | Hawkwind: going for ops? | 12:16 |
Hawkwind | toma: That is correct | 12:17 |
Jucato | :) | 12:17 |
Riddell | that's the next item | 12:17 |
Riddell | we don't really have a formal procedure for #kubuntu ops, I just do it if it seems sensible | 12:17 |
Riddell | Hawkwind: any reason you'd like to be an op? | 12:17 |
Riddell | and anyone have any objections? | 12:17 |
allee | Hawkwind, Jucato have fun, I really apprecaite any work in this direction!! | 12:17 |
Hawkwind | Riddell: Let me paste something I have pre-typed | 12:17 |
Hawkwind | I am here today for a couple of reasons. One being the Kubuntu Support Team and the other is applying for the Kubuntu op team. Why an op you ask ? I feel I have many things I can bring to the channel and the community. I have listed a few of those things on my wiki page. The main reason I'm applying is because I am active on the channel 10+ hours a day, am very knowledgeable in both Linux and Kubuntu. I get along v | 12:17 |
Hawkwind | ery well with all users of the channel, including several of the other ops. My op background consists of being an op for the #Mandrake/#Mandriva channel for 3 years, and the last 1 1/2 years of that was spent being the channels alternate contact. | 12:17 |
Hawkwind | allee: Thank you :) | 12:18 |
imbrandon | Riddell, Hawkwind, is arround alot and seems to have a level head in #kubuntu | 12:18 |
Hawkwind | BTW, here is my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hawkwind and LP page: https://launchpad.net/people/hawkwind | 12:18 |
gnomefreak | i like Hawkwind as an op as imbrandon points out he is around alot | 12:18 |
Riddell | I'm satisfied, I'll do that after the meeting | 12:18 |
Hobbsee | Riddell: I object! :P No, i think Hawkwind would make a good op. we really dont have terribly many ops in #kubuntu and most that we do have arent watching anyway, only responding if !ops is called - i know that's all i tend to do, at least | 12:18 |
toma | 10h+ ? | 12:19 |
nixternal | WHAT! a penguins head wearing a MICROSOFT colored bow tie =/ | 12:19 |
Jucato | lol | 12:19 |
toma | amazing | 12:19 |
imbrandon | s/gnomefreak/kdefreak/g THERE the first fix to the doc's | 12:19 |
claydoh | I vote for Hawkwind | 12:19 |
toma | +1 | 12:19 |
gnomefreak | lol | 12:19 |
Riddell | Tonio_: your item | 12:19 |
Tonio_ | yes | 12:19 |
gnomefreak | i cant someone took it | 12:19 |
Hawkwind | Thank you to everyone for the kind words :) | 12:19 |
claydoh | #kubuntu would be easy compared to #mandriva | 12:19 |
Hobbsee | =1, as i cant find the plus button | 12:19 |
nixternal | haha | 12:19 |
Hobbsee | +ooh, there we go | 12:19 |
gnomefreak | +1 | 12:19 |
Jucato | lol | 12:19 |
Tonio_ | we have a few critical bugs that we need to focus on before release | 12:19 |
Hawkwind | claydoh: Hah, agreed | 12:19 |
Hobbsee | it's still dark in here, i cant see the keyboard! | 12:20 |
Tonio_ | I think it would be nice to dedicate a wikipage to them | 12:20 |
imbrandon | Tonio_, agreed | 12:20 |
=== gnomefreak just fixed a bug in page nixternal gave us | ||
Riddell | bouncing k icon at startup | 12:20 |
Tonio_ | here is an example of what I call critical : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/56377 | 12:20 |
Ubugtu | Malone bug 56377 in kdebase "klipper crashes on login " [Unknown,Unconfirmed] | 12:20 |
Riddell | yes, I do miss klipper | 12:20 |
toma | Tonio_: yes, i said it before, i love lists which i could do when i'm bored. | 12:20 |
Tonio_ | that will touch any new profile and any new installation when edgy is out.... | 12:20 |
Riddell | Tonio_: in theory we should be able to use launchpad to sort important bugs, but I agree a wiki page is probably easier | 12:21 |
Tonio_ | and I'm pretty sure we can find a very consistent list of things like this one | 12:21 |
gnomefreak | i thought that was fixed removing ~/.klipperrc if it was changed from default as a workaround | 12:21 |
toma | (copy & paste does not work, with or without klipper) | 12:21 |
imbrandon | Tonio_ / Riddell and would give us a place to colab on pre-release/must fix bugs over the next weeks as we are a sparse team all in diffrent timezones ;) | 12:21 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: yes launchpad is pretty nice during the dev cycle, but not very convenient to focus on the essential stuff just before the release | 12:21 |
toma | Tonio_: isn't there a priority field? | 12:22 |
Tonio_ | the wikipage should link and invite to use launchpad, it should just be there to help defining the priorities | 12:22 |
Riddell | Tonio_: so please set up KubuntuEdgyCriticalBugs and we'll get cracking on them | 12:22 |
Tonio_ | toma: yes there is, but what is important is not always critical | 12:22 |
toma | Tonio_: would be best to let launchpad generate the list | 12:22 |
Tonio_ | that klipper issue is the perfect example | 12:22 |
Tonio_ | it is not critical, since it doesn't break kubuntu, but we cannot think of releasing with this bug | 12:22 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: will do with the help of Hobbsee, for her ug status knowledge :) | 12:23 |
Tonio_ | Hobbsee: can I onsider your help to do that page tomorrow ? | 12:23 |
Riddell | ug status? | 12:23 |
=== Hobbsee gets off the phone with work again | ||
imbrandon | heh | 12:23 |
Hobbsee | say what? :P | 12:23 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: bug status | 12:23 |
Hobbsee | Riddell: yes, i have a very high ug status :P | 12:23 |
=== Hobbsee ugs Riddell | ||
imbrandon | ;) | 12:24 |
Riddell | :) | 12:24 |
Riddell | right, universe freeze | 12:24 |
Tonio_ | rah !! Hobbsee, I'm sure you understood, so that's fine to me :) | 12:24 |
imbrandon | 28th ? | 12:24 |
Riddell | only 2.5 weeks to go | 12:24 |
toma | hmm, anyone wants to do a second try at getting digikam(.*)-docs in? | 12:25 |
=== Hobbsee hugs Tonio_. i did. | ||
Riddell | I can't think of any important packages that need to be got in, but a revu triage would be nice | 12:25 |
Riddell | toma: what happened with it? | 12:25 |
Hobbsee | toma: if the licence stuff is still wrong, you wont... | 12:25 |
imbrandon | we need to have some of use k guys ( and gals ) go though revu on revu day | 12:25 |
Riddell | oh, no FDL text | 12:25 |
Hobbsee | Riddell: that's what they plan to do today. or this day a month ago, take your pick. :P | 12:25 |
toma | allee: you released a new version, right? | 12:26 |
Hobbsee | imbrandon: revu day today, check MOTU mailing list | 12:26 |
imbrandon | Hobbsee, its still the 7th for me ;) | 12:26 |
toma | afaik a sync with debian should solve it | 12:26 |
Hobbsee | Tonio_: add the wiki link to the topic too | 12:26 |
Tonio_ | Hobbsee: yes, sure | 12:26 |
Riddell | toma: great, that sounds easy then | 12:26 |
Hobbsee | imbrandon: catch up with the times. | 12:26 |
imbrandon | Hobbsee, -motu topic says the 8th | 12:27 |
imbrandon | so i guess we get 2 revu days | 12:27 |
Hobbsee | imbrandon: indeed. in my timezone, it is the 8th | 12:27 |
Riddell | Hobbsee: your agenda item | 12:27 |
imbrandon | ahh | 12:27 |
Hobbsee | wha? | 12:27 |
Hobbsee | Universe freeze on the 26th or so. Make sure all updated versions are in by then. If they're not, then you'll need to file freeze exception requests, etc. | 12:27 |
=== allee tries to remember ... | ||
toma | apoligies excepted ;-) | 12:28 |
toma | accepted | 12:28 |
Hobbsee | as a FYI | 12:28 |
Riddell | Hobbsee: "Any other random agenda points from Hobbsee. " | 12:28 |
Hobbsee | while i have the floor | 12:28 |
Hobbsee | -1 on the power button calls the logout button, idea | 12:28 |
imbrandon | why ? | 12:28 |
Riddell | Hobbsee: why? | 12:28 |
Hobbsee | but we should make sure that kde gets saved - maybe call logout kde, then shut down? | 12:28 |
gnomefreak | kind of liked that idea | 12:28 |
allee | yes, FDL stuff is fixed upstream -0.8.2-r1.tar.gz | 12:28 |
Hobbsee | what happens when you try to use the shutdown button to shut down the computer, ie when i'ts hardlocked? | 12:29 |
toma | allee: k | 12:29 |
imbrandon | Hobbsee, you hold the button 4 seconds and the hardware takes care of it | 12:29 |
Riddell | Hobbsee: on most computers you hold it down for 5 seconds and it shuts down | 12:29 |
=== Raven301 [n=raven301@Toronto-HSE-ppp3713414.sympatico.ca] has joined #Ubuntu-Meeting | ||
Hobbsee | Riddell: so that wouldnt change? | 12:29 |
imbrandon | yea its part of the ATX spec | 12:29 |
Hobbsee | oh right | 12:29 |
imbrandon | Hobbsee, no thats hardware | 12:29 |
Riddell | Hobbsee: no | 12:29 |
Hobbsee | (how inconvenient is the power button to hit anyway?) | 12:29 |
Hobbsee | anyway, point. | 12:30 |
Tonio_ | Hobbsee: ati standard | 12:30 |
allee | toma: and -r1 pkgs are in sid | 12:30 |
imbrandon | Tonio_, atx ;) | 12:30 |
toma | allee: are you going to try a new merge into edgy? | 12:30 |
Hobbsee | havent thought of any random agenda points yet, but for all the MOTU's, there's a REVU day on the 8th. lets attack those packages, some of them have been there for ages. | 12:30 |
Tonio_ | imbrandon: hu, OMG I said ati, sorry :) | 12:30 |
imbrandon | hehe | 12:30 |
Tonio_ | imbrandon: should change my graphic card | 12:30 |
Riddell | I'll try and do some REVUing tomorrow | 12:31 |
=== foo [n=foo@unaffiliated/foo] has joined #Ubuntu-Meeting | ||
Tonio_ | so yes Hobbsee every computer that is less that 5 to 6 years handles this | 12:31 |
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=== foo joins to eye Hawkwind | ||
Hawkwind | I do have a suggestion to make once all the agenda points are covered that wasn't on the agenda | 12:31 |
Hobbsee | cool | 12:31 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: ping me eventually, I can spend time on this too | 12:31 |
allee | toma: no. I'm still covered with work to do any OSS stuff (beside FAI for dapper, that I need for work right now ;) | 12:31 |
Hobbsee | nothing else, currently | 12:31 |
Riddell | "Translations are currently broken", not sure who's agenda item that is but it should go on Tonio_'s bugs page | 12:31 |
=== Hobbsee didnt have any great bursts of brilliance overnight | ||
Riddell | kde.pot isn't being handled right somewhere | 12:32 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: that my item | 12:32 |
toma | Riddell: are there translations for kde 3.5.4 for dapper available? | 12:32 |
Riddell | toma: no | 12:32 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: I already looked at that and that's not kubunt specific bug | 12:32 |
Riddell | toma: well, kde-i18n packages should be on kubuntu.org | 12:32 |
Tonio_ | that exactly the same issue we had during the dapper dev cycle... | 12:32 |
Tonio_ | only half of the translation appears | 12:32 |
Riddell | Tonio_: it's the stock strings from kde.pot that are the problem, I'll look into it | 12:33 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: shouldn't we ping pitty instead ? | 12:33 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: okay | 12:33 |
Riddell | Tonio_: might be my fault, might be rosetta's fault or might be pitti's fault, I don't know yet | 12:33 |
Riddell | probably mine :) | 12:33 |
=== Tonio_ notes Riddell is a modest person :) | ||
Riddell | autoscroll in konqueror | 12:33 |
toma | Riddell: did you talk to rosetta people about the kde translators concerns? | 12:33 |
Riddell | toma: no, I need to do that too | 12:34 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: yes that's another of my items | 12:34 |
toma | Riddell: ok, np | 12:34 |
Riddell | toma: I'll do that tomorrow | 12:34 |
toma | great | 12:34 |
Tonio_ | toma and I have patched konqueror to have that function rocking as much as in firefox | 12:34 |
Tonio_ | the patch in now in kdelibs, which is a good point | 12:34 |
Riddell | Tonio_: I'm not a fan of autoscroll mostly because I like middle click to paste URL | 12:34 |
Tonio_ | firefox provides this function by default | 12:34 |
Hobbsee | Riddell: Jucato: has an agenda item, too | 12:34 |
Riddell | and the konqueror implementation has bugs like pasting into textareas doesn'twork | 12:34 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: middle click to paste still works if you middle click on the tab bar | 12:35 |
toma | yes, that is my problem with it as well | 12:35 |
Tonio_ | sounds like a good compromise to me | 12:35 |
toma | not for the textarea's | 12:35 |
toma | ah, compromise | 12:35 |
seaLne | thats much harder and requires moving mouse | 12:35 |
Tonio_ | the point is that a very few kubuntu users are using konqueror in the first place because they prefer the features of firefox | 12:35 |
Hobbsee | sorry, what cna you still paste with this scenerio? | 12:36 |
Tonio_ | we should focus on making konqueror working the way Joe prefers | 12:36 |
Tonio_ | ;) | 12:36 |
Hobbsee | Tonio_: or just add/replace it with firefox. *ducks* | 12:36 |
=== Jucato wonders about middle-clicking on tabs to close | ||
Tonio_ | Riddell: there is no pb in pasting urls if you middle click on the tab bar, which sounds logic and makes sense to me | 12:36 |
allee | Tonio_: noone here misses it (but we all have scroll wheels) | 12:36 |
Riddell | Tonio_: it's still broken with pasteing in textareas, which is a killer for me | 12:36 |
imbrandon | middle clicking the tab bar in ff closes the tab | 12:37 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: hum...... let me test | 12:37 |
Riddell | middle click to close sounds evil | 12:37 |
toma | Tonio_: that is the reason i turned it off too | 12:37 |
Jucato | heh | 12:37 |
Riddell | especially if you're used to pasting URLs | 12:37 |
imbrandon | Riddell, it is, very evil | 12:37 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: pasting in textareas works here | 12:37 |
Tonio_ | middle click pastes correctly | 12:38 |
toma | Tonio_: not with middle mouse button, from the konsole or example | 12:38 |
Tonio_ | toma: just done it and it is okay | 12:38 |
=== Jucato notes that it works here too | ||
toma | hmff | 12:38 |
Riddell | how do I turn on scroll agian? | 12:38 |
=== Hobbsee hugs middle-click-to-close in firefox | ||
Hobbsee | Riddell: middle click? | 12:38 |
toma | if that works, i dont have a problem with it | 12:39 |
=== pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
pitti | hi | 12:39 |
imbrandon | lo pitti | 12:39 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: konq settings, web management blabla and uncheck "use middle click to........" | 12:39 |
cbx33 | pitti, hi | 12:39 |
Tonio_ | not sure of the english but it's like that | 12:39 |
Jucato | in Web Behaviour, uncheck "Middle click opens URL in selection" | 12:39 |
Riddell | nope, definately still broken for textareas for me | 12:39 |
=== Hobbsee adds to the mental agenda in her head. i have a question for imbrandon. | ||
Riddell | it does paste, but it also scrolls too | 12:40 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: humf... | 12:40 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: ah yes I can see this too | 12:40 |
imbrandon | Hobbsee, PM me or i'll forget | 12:40 |
Riddell | Tonio_: so fix this and I'll consider it :) | 12:40 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: hehe | 12:40 |
toma | Riddell: tsss | 12:40 |
fabo | :) | 12:40 |
Riddell | ok, any other items | 12:40 |
Tonio_ | toma: ready to help again on that point ? | 12:40 |
Hobbsee | Riddell: that means it's hard to paste when the page is scrolling randomly? :P | 12:40 |
=== toma ducks | ||
Hobbsee | Riddell: sure, a status update on imbrandon's plans for an integrated firefox | 12:41 |
Tonio_ | toma: I don't feel capable to do this on my own :) | 12:41 |
=== unix_infidel [n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
toma | Tonio_: same here ;-) | 12:41 |
toma | Tonio_: but we can have a look, but not very soon ;-( | 12:41 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: ready to help ? :) | 12:41 |
imbrandon | Hobbsee, i havent touched it yet, i was / am waiting on iwj to "finish" | 12:41 |
Hobbsee | imbrandon: ah okay | 12:41 |
=== Hobbsee points at Hawkwind | ||
Riddell | yes, Hawkwind had an item | 12:42 |
Jucato | Hawkwind? | 12:42 |
Riddell | guess he fell asleep | 12:42 |
Riddell | any other items? | 12:42 |
Jucato | :) | 12:42 |
imbrandon | Riddell, whats for breakfast ? j/k | 12:43 |
Hawkwind | I'm here now | 12:43 |
Jucato | it was about the 10th anniversary of KDE | 12:43 |
Hobbsee | Riddell: if not, Jucato can step in and do it | 12:43 |
Hobbsee | mmm...breakfast | 12:43 |
Jucato | oh there he is | 12:43 |
Hawkwind | Since this year is the 10th anniversary of KDE....can we do something special within Edgy to commemorate it ? | 12:43 |
toma | good idea | 12:43 |
Riddell | KDE 4 packages aren't special enough? | 12:43 |
Hawkwind | Could be something graphical or most anything. Just think it would be a neat idea to let it be known to the user how long it's been around | 12:43 |
imbrandon | hehe | 12:43 |
Hobbsee | Riddell: well.... | 12:43 |
Riddell | Hawkwind: more concrete ideas would be useful | 12:44 |
ttread | one of the example docs - or a little movie... | 12:44 |
Riddell | I agree something would be cool, but I don't know what | 12:44 |
toma | can we add a special desktop for that day | 12:44 |
Riddell | toma: nice | 12:44 |
Hobbsee | how close are we for cd space, by the way? on a related note? | 12:44 |
Riddell | ttread: nice but example-docs already takes up too much space | 12:45 |
Hawkwind | Riddell: I was thinking of some kind of graphic during start up or something. Or maybe a 10th anniversary screen when konqueror starts | 12:45 |
kwwii | ping kwwii to ask about the graphics | 12:45 |
Riddell | Hobbsee: too close | 12:45 |
Tonio_ | Riddell: hum, hard to do for people using their own wallpaper :) | 12:45 |
ttread | ok | 12:45 |
imbrandon | Hobbsee, last i checked without removing anything we had about 38mb free | 12:45 |
Hobbsee | Riddell: well, yeah, but how much do we have? | 12:45 |
Hobbsee | that will cut out most videos | 12:45 |
Hobbsee | right | 12:45 |
=== sfllaw [i=sfllaw@debian/developer/coleSLAW] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
sfllaw | @schedule Montreal | 12:45 |
Ubugtu | Schedule for America/Montreal: Current meeting: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 08:00: Community Council | 12:45 |
Riddell | imbrandon: less on other arches | 12:45 |
sfllaw | @schedule America/Montreal | 12:45 |
Ubugtu | Schedule for America/Montreal: Current meeting: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 08:00: Community Council | 12:45 |
Riddell | hi sfllaw, welcome to the kubuntu meeting | 12:45 |
imbrandon | Riddell, true i only checked i386 | 12:45 |
Jucato | I guess graphics would be our only option then? | 12:45 |
Hawkwind | Hah | 12:45 |
Hobbsee | sfllaw: we're in a meeting :P | 12:45 |
Riddell | kwwii: do you know if there's any plans for 10th anniversary graphics? | 12:46 |
=== dholbach [n=daniel@i577B1A02.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
toma | Hobbsee: well if you have video's, we can add a main menu item on all apps to point to that on that day | 12:47 |
imbrandon | i think a nice graphic in the "about" box in the edgy release would be simple and small and still seen | 12:47 |
sfllaw | Sorry. | 12:47 |
imbrandon | Riddell, ^ | 12:47 |
kwwii | Riddell: nope, until now, there is none | 12:47 |
mdz | Riddell: please wrap up within the next 10m so we can get started with the dev meeting | 12:47 |
Riddell | mdz: we're about there | 12:47 |
Hawkwind | imbrandon: +1 on that idea. It doesn't have to be big at all | 12:48 |
Hobbsee | mdz: we're taking over your dev meeting, didnt you know? :P | 12:48 |
Hobbsee | toma: right, yeah. i dont | 12:48 |
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Riddell | someone could contact basse for a konqi graphic/video | 12:48 |
sivang | topic | 12:48 |
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kwwii | Riddell: that is a very good idea | 12:49 |
kwwii | in fact, I think that someone has already done that | 12:49 |
kwwii | torsten | 12:49 |
Riddell | clever tackat | 12:49 |
kwwii | now that you mention it :-) | 12:49 |
Jucato | one of the older Konqi videos? | 12:49 |
kwwii | no, to make a new one | 12:49 |
Jucato | ah | 12:49 |
Riddell | I'll talk to tackat and see where that is | 12:49 |
imbrandon | ok ....... moving on ? ( sorry i'm hungery for food ) | 12:50 |
Riddell | imbrandon: I'm done | 12:50 |
imbrandon | hehe | 12:50 |
Riddell | any other business? | 12:50 |
=== toma too | ||
=== Jucato needs sleep... | ||
Riddell | thanks for coming all | 12:50 |
Hobbsee | Jucato: heh, i'll bet | 12:50 |
toma | next meeting? | 12:50 |
Hobbsee | next meeting time? | 12:50 |
Hobbsee | it's not really fair on Jucato having a 5am meeting. | 12:50 |
Hobbsee | and i'm pretty useless, even at 7am | 12:51 |
Jucato | heh it's ok. I'll get used to it :) | 12:51 |
claydoh | heck Im useless and its 7 PM :) | 12:51 |
Jucato | heh | 12:51 |
toma | i'm fine on friday at 11pm ;-) | 12:51 |
kwwii | see most of you later...see those in the developer meeting in a few minutes | 12:51 |
=== Hobbsee pokes Riddell to see if he saw the last bit | ||
Riddell | yep, suggestions of meeting times welcome | 12:52 |
toma | nite all | 12:53 |
Tonio_ | toma: nite ;) | 12:53 |
seaLne | what about a early morning GMT meeting? | 12:53 |
Tonio_ | toma: just a second plz :) | 12:53 |
Tonio_ | argh | 12:53 |
imbrandon | early gmt time is fine by me, we wont get everyone every meeting ;) | 12:53 |
imbrandon | we should rotate | 12:54 |
Hobbsee | lets discuss it in #kubuntu-devel but perhaps it's more of an issue nwo than it was | 12:54 |
imbrandon | sweet , carry any spillover to #kubuntu-devel /me is afk to get some food | 12:54 |
Hobbsee | we need to make sure we have quroum, at least | 12:54 |
=== Hobbsee wonders when the KCC renewal comes up. | ||
=== claydoh leaves to start cooking late dinner... | ||
kwwii | hehe, at least I am early for the next meeting :-) | 12:55 |
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kwwii | hi fschoep | 12:55 |
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dholbach | hi seb128, hi fschoep | 12:55 |
fschoep | Hi kwwii, everyone | 12:55 |
seb128 | hey dholbach | 12:55 |
fschoep | Hi dholbach | 12:55 |
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jono | howdy doody | 12:57 |
mdz | jono: evening | 12:57 |
Hobbsee | hey all | 12:57 |
jono | hey mdz :) | 12:57 |
jono | hey Hobbsee | 12:57 |
Fujitsu | Morning, jono. | 12:57 |
Hobbsee | hi jono. you didnt make it to kubuntu meeting? | 12:57 |
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=== Hobbsee merges wireshark in the background | ||
jono | hey Fujitsu | 12:58 |
jono | Hobbsee, yeah I was out tonight | 12:58 |
Hobbsee | jono: ah okay. shame. you could do what i did - come in over half way thru or something :P | 12:58 |
jono | Hobbsee, I only just got in :) | 12:58 |
jono | Hobbsee, good meeting ? | 12:58 |
=== pitti waves to mdz | ||
Hobbsee | jono: didnt make most of it, and the part i was there for i wasnt terribly awake :P | 12:59 |
jono | hehe | 12:59 |
=== Hobbsee waves to pitti | ||
mdz | missing infinity, iwj and BenC | 12:59 |
mvo | hello | 12:59 |
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | ||
mdz | good evening, folks | 01:00 |
sfllaw | Evening. | 01:00 |
sfllaw | How was Black Rock? | 01:00 |
pitti | good evening everyone | 01:00 |
mdz | my holidays were excellent, but I'm back in full-on work mode now | 01:00 |
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mdz | we have a lot of ground to cover, with feature freeze upon us | 01:00 |
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mdz | so we'll dive right in | 01:01 |
mdz | infinity: welcome | 01:01 |
mdz | pitti: would you start us off? | 01:01 |
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iwj | Hi. Sorry I'm a bit late ... | 01:01 |
pitti | sure | 01:02 |
mdz | iwj: we're just getting started | 01:02 |
pitti | Done: | 01:02 |
pitti | * started to catch up with security updates after the two weeks break: PHP, bind, kernel (just coordination), mailman, libxfont/X.org, imagemagick, openssl, MySQL | 01:02 |
pitti | * apport: implemented bug pattern matching backend and GUI (so that apport-gtk directs you to an already existing bug rather than asking you to file a new one) | 01:02 |
pitti | * SoC reviews and reports | 01:02 |
pitti | * merged cupsys and updated to 1.2.3; not yet uploaded since I have to fix a regression | 01:02 |
pitti | Todo: | 01:02 |
pitti | * more security updates (arrgh) | 01:02 |
pitti | * catch up on my overflowing bugs inbox | 01:02 |
pitti | * finish cups 1.2.3 and upload | 01:02 |
pitti | * fix high-profile langpack-o-matic bug and prepare new packages (BLOCKED: *-updates embargo; mdz?) | 01:02 |
pitti | * ensure that php and mysql get new upstream versions (infinity or I) | 01:02 |
pitti | * finish gnutls12->13 transition | 01:02 |
pitti | * start bug fixing | 01:02 |
pitti | spec status: | 01:02 |
pitti | * apt-get-debug-symbols (Deployment): distro side is ready, needs buildd infrastructure work to get .ddebs to people.u.c (to be implemented next week with infinity) | 01:02 |
mdz | pitti: how much remains in the queue for security? | 01:02 |
pitti | * automated-problem-reports (Implemented): does not yet catch all corner cases, this requires an updated kernel implementation which will (most likely) be deferred to Edgy+1; but basic functionality is working apart from some bugs | 01:02 |
pitti | * gcc-ssp (Implemented): Distro side changes are implemented for a long time; still need to check current build coverage, and perhaps do no-change uploads to important packages | 01:02 |
pitti | * auto-unmount-notifications (Implemented): works a bit too good (also for readonly devices), but I consider that a bug | 01:02 |
=== pitti is happy to be the first one the first time | ||
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pitti | mdz: the kernel still needs to be pushed out, some embargoed stuff that is lifted next week, and about 5 public issues | 01:03 |
pitti | mdz: (I don't have the exact number in my head, I just work through them case by case) | 01:03 |
mdz | pitti: looks like you are in good shape for feature freeze, congrats | 01:03 |
pitti | mdz: will you say some words about the *-update embargo? | 01:03 |
pitti | mdz: thanks :) | 01:03 |
mdz | we're in the process of revising and formalizing the process for updates to stable releases | 01:04 |
pitti | mdz: do infinity and I have your blessing to implement the .ddeb retrieval later? | 01:04 |
mdz | until that work is finished, only security fixes are permitted | 01:04 |
pitti | mdz: I hope it won't be too heavy for langpack updates ;) | 01:04 |
mdz | queue any -updates uploads locally until then | 01:04 |
pitti | but I totally agree that we should revise the policy | 01:04 |
pitti | we should also do a dry run of that proposed 'block bad versions with a fake version on security.u.c' approach | 01:05 |
mdz | I'm going to focus on prevention, though we'll think through some contingency plans | 01:05 |
mdz | KISS will apply though | 01:05 |
mdz | pitti: thank you | 01:06 |
mdz | Mithrandir: next? | 01:06 |
Mithrandir | live-cd-write-as-you-go: Needs a fair bit of infrastructure before it can happen, namely an udflinux similar to isolinux. | 01:06 |
Mithrandir | misc: X bugfixes. Rodarvus and I seem to have divided the workload so he gets the server and drivers, I get the apps and libs. Also played a fair bit with Xen. Casper bugfixes. Helped Colin a bit with sane-installer-keyboard (but he's done most of the implementation, by far) | 01:06 |
Mithrandir | next week: bug triage, Knot 3 release in a week. | 01:06 |
Mithrandir | l-c-w-a-y-g is therefore deferred | 01:06 |
mdz | Mithrandir: how did knot 2 go? | 01:06 |
Mithrandir | decent; some last-minute changes which I in retrospect wish I'd asked to postpone, but it wasn't too painful. | 01:07 |
mdz | Mithrandir: how about the testing in the certification lab? | 01:07 |
mdz | is that working out? | 01:08 |
Mithrandir | yeah, slowly. | 01:08 |
mdz | how are they reporting their results? | 01:08 |
Mithrandir | as in, getting there. | 01:08 |
Mithrandir | the wiki, as usual. | 01:08 |
Mithrandir | at least, that's been the goal. I need to be better at cleaning the grid when we build a new iso | 01:08 |
mdz | add it to the checklist | 01:09 |
Mithrandir | also, we uncovered some brokenness in Launchpad, but I think that's fixed now | 01:09 |
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Mithrandir | infinity: ^^? | 01:09 |
infinity | Mithrandir: The frozen breakage? Not sure if those fixes have been rolled out, I'll chase that up before we try to freeze again. | 01:09 |
mdz | please subscribe me to the relevant bugs if they're causing release blockage | 01:10 |
Mithrandir | infinity: yeah, that's what I was thinking about. Basically, FROZEN doesn't work. And I can't freeze the distro. | 01:10 |
Mithrandir | both being kinda problematic if I'm going to drive the release. | 01:10 |
mdz | Mithrandir: did you have that UI review with mpt regarding live-cd-sessions? | 01:10 |
Mithrandir | mdz: I thought I sent that mail, but I never chased it up, so either he never got it or forgot. I'll do that even though we're post-FF. | 01:11 |
mdz | give him some time to think on it, it'll be good to have on hand when we resume that | 01:11 |
mdz | thanks Mithrandir | 01:12 |
mdz | infinity: next | 01:12 |
infinity | Done: | 01:12 |
infinity | * debian-maintainer-field: Maintainer field mangling is in the archive and active on the buildds, and working as advertised. | 01:12 |
infinity | * live-cd-stacked-filesystems: Just recieved word that elmo has given me the kernel support I need on the buildds, so will roll this out in production after I've slept today. | 01:12 |
infinity | * larger-livefs: Still needs creation of a seed for live-dvd, but when live-cd-stacked-filesystems is rolled out, this one basically takes care of itself. | 01:12 |
infinity | * A fair amount of buildd wrangling this week, unsnaring the usual "new GNOME breakage", dealing with chroots not updating properly, etc. | 01:12 |
infinity | * General weekly tasks (archive maintenance, tracking soyuz bugs and misfeatures, etc) | 01:12 |
infinity | Todo: | 01:12 |
infinity | * New upstream releases of PHP, MySQL, and Samba, all done in Debian, just need to get UVFs and quickly merge/sync them. | 01:12 |
infinity | * Make sure live-cd-stacked-filesystems/larger-livefs actually work in production. | 01:12 |
infinity | * Attack bug lists and FTBFS lists. | 01:12 |
=== infinity subscribed mdz to the FROZEN bug. | ||
mdz | (thanks) | 01:12 |
mdz | Mithrandir: have you been able to test your portion of live-cd-stacked-filesystems at all, or is that blocked on having them built on the buildds? | 01:13 |
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Mithrandir | mdz: I have tested it with locally built images. | 01:13 |
pitti | infinity: (for the record, we do have the php UVF ER) | 01:14 |
pitti | infinity: ... approval) | 01:14 |
mdz | infinity: go ahead and create the dvd seed; it should have all language-{support,pack} for all languages | 01:14 |
infinity | pitti: Yeah, I know, but we don't for the other two, and I'm a lazy typist. :) | 01:14 |
Mithrandir | mdz: I haven't tested it with official images, naturally, since we don't have them yet. | 01:14 |
mdz | Mithrandir: right, thanks | 01:14 |
seb128 | infinity: what causes the "new GNOME breakage"? The stricts Depends between arch all and any packages? | 01:14 |
mdz | infinity: check with Kamion if you're in doubt about the germination | 01:15 |
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pitti | infinity: will the dvd seed be a superset of the CD seed, or an independent copy? | 01:15 |
infinity | seb128: Yeah, when arches get a bit out of sync, the world explodes and I get to unsnag it all by hand. It's something I'm generally used to. When new GNOME hits, I tend to get to dedicate a couple of days to making it happy everywhere. | 01:15 |
Kamion | the appropriate runes are in the supported seed | 01:15 |
Kamion | pitti: live-dvd would inherit from live, technically | 01:15 |
mdz | pitti: it will be an independent seed, but stacked on top of the existing live image | 01:15 |
pitti | Kamion: that's good | 01:15 |
pitti | so no duplication AFAIUI | 01:16 |
mdz | right | 01:16 |
seb128 | infinity: would delay upload between libs and app make the job easier for you? | 01:16 |
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infinity | seb128: It could help a bit, but unless you want to stagger your uploads by days, something will always break. *shrug* | 01:16 |
seb128 | k | 01:16 |
seb128 | so not a lot we can do for you :/ | 01:16 |
infinity | seb128: To be honest, I prefer to see you and Daniel just upload as much as you can and get back to bugfixing while I do my job. | 01:17 |
mdz | infinity: ok, thanks | 01:17 |
=== dholbach hugs infinity | ||
mdz | dholbach: next | 01:17 |
seb128 | ok, fine with me | 01:17 |
infinity | seb128: Each to their strengths. :) | 01:17 |
dholbach | Done: | 01:17 |
dholbach | * GNOME 2.16 | 01:17 |
dholbach | * Bugs | 01:17 |
dholbach | * Artwork uploads and work on Art-Builder | 01:17 |
dholbach | Todo: | 01:17 |
dholbach | * more Bug Triage | 01:17 |
=== seb128 hugs infinity too | ||
dholbach | * more Art-Builder | 01:17 |
dholbach | * REVU DAY tomorrow! | 01:17 |
dholbach | * get new gnome-pilot in, get missing telepathy packages in before UniverseFreeze | 01:17 |
dholbach | * start on apt-get.org import | 01:17 |
dholbach | 01:17 | |
mdz | GNOME 2.16.0 is complete? | 01:17 |
sfllaw | Yay! | 01:17 |
=== mvo hugs dholbach | ||
dholbach | yes | 01:18 |
seb128 | mdz: yep | 01:18 |
=== mvo hugs seb128 | ||
=== seb128 is going to blog about that ;) | ||
=== seb128 hugs mvo back | ||
mdz | excellent, seb128/dholbach | 01:18 |
dholbach | gracias :-) | 01:18 |
seb128 | : | 01:18 |
seb128 | :) | 01:18 |
mdz | dholbach: how is art-builder going? that's the arrangement we discussed in wiesbaden? | 01:18 |
=== pitti hugs the fabulous desktop team | ||
dholbach | mdz: exactly - it's checking out and building already, but not very clever yet (it doesn't do changes to buildsystems, etc) | 01:19 |
pitti | Seb'128 packages a day'astien | 01:19 |
dholbach | mdz: i didn't put too much time in it yet | 01:19 |
dholbach | pitti: ah ah :-P | 01:19 |
mdz | dholbach: ok, send me an email when there's something to see; I'd like to look at it | 01:19 |
dholbach | mdz: sure | 01:20 |
mdz | thanks dholbach | 01:20 |
mdz | kwwii: next | 01:20 |
seb128 | pitti: :) | 01:20 |
kwwii | Did the Hardware Database interface pics, selected icons, edited a few and made a couple of new ones. | 01:20 |
kwwii | Finished almost all (all currently used as far as I can tell) of the power manager icons (one or two still need to be done) | 01:20 |
kwwii | Played with a two ideas for both versions of the usplash | 01:20 |
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kwwii | Worked on evolving the theme to the blue-purple variant | 01:21 |
kwwii | Tweaking KDM and Ksplash theme | 01:21 |
kwwii | TODO: | 01:21 |
kwwii | USPLASH - top of the list...following questions; which version will be used? When will testing be done? (how in the hell do I get it to work on my eMac?) :-) | 01:21 |
kwwii | Got Amarok running again on my machine, finishing up the work on the amarok theme | 01:21 |
kwwii | Release announcement pic | 01:21 |
kwwii | pics for wiki.kubuntu.org header | 01:21 |
kwwii | Finish the tweaking of the "about" pages, make that match with the metabar pics | 01:21 |
kwwii | Change all pics and color schemes to the blue-purple theme by knot3 | 01:21 |
kwwii | the usplash is the biggest issue for me | 01:21 |
fschoep | +1 | 01:21 |
kwwii | fschoep: ;-) | 01:21 |
=== pitti really hopes that usplash will work on amd64 soon | ||
fschoep | But at least there's something happening on the art ML now | 01:21 |
mdz | kwwii: of the 7 components we discussed (usplash, wallpaper, window decorations, kdm login, ksplash, app start pages, icons), how much of that has landed in edgy for feature freeze? | 01:22 |
fschoep | Seveas is doing some work there | 01:22 |
Seveas | My work on usplash is done | 01:22 |
Seveas | mjg59 is doing the hard work | 01:22 |
kwwii | mdz: all of it | 01:22 |
Riddell | except usplash | 01:22 |
fschoep | Seveas: OK, good to hear - glad you made it | 01:22 |
kwwii | mdz: it is all tweaking and bug fixing from here on out | 01:22 |
kwwii | and the usplash | 01:22 |
kwwii | thanks Riddell | 01:22 |
kwwii | that is why the usplash is on top of the lsit | 01:23 |
kwwii | list | 01:23 |
kwwii | the new usplash stuff came out last night...the big question is will that version be used? | 01:23 |
mdz | kwwii: what's blocking it? testing on your machine? | 01:23 |
kwwii | ie...how much time should be put into making the new version | 01:23 |
mdz | my two issues with it were the virtual console corruption and hibernation breakage. | 01:23 |
Kamion | kwwii: it'll be used, unless it turns out to be so buggy it's easier to revert than fix | 01:23 |
kwwii | mdz: although I cannot test it on my machine, I have some basic stuff done already | 01:23 |
mdz | the latter was apparently a kernel bug, and mjg59 believes the former fixed | 01:24 |
kwwii | I cannot get it to run on either of my ppc machines | 01:24 |
mdz | mjg59: how confident are you about it today? | 01:24 |
mjg59 | Mm? | 01:24 |
Kamion | I was thinking of poking at it on powerpc tomorrow | 01:24 |
mjg59 | Oh, the console corruption? | 01:24 |
mjg59 | That's sorted | 01:24 |
mdz | mjg59: shiny usplash | 01:24 |
mdz | in general | 01:24 |
mjg59 | Yeah | 01:24 |
mdz | for edgy feature freeze | 01:24 |
Kamion | I just haven't had time before FF | 01:24 |
mjg59 | Works now | 01:24 |
mdz | are you aware of the amd64 issue pitti mentioned? | 01:24 |
mjg59 | The PPC stuff is buggy but easily fixed | 01:24 |
pitti | are we definitively committed to using the hi-res usplash for edgy? | 01:24 |
mdz | pitti: that's what we're trying to determine | 01:24 |
mjg59 | I'm running it on amd64 right this second | 01:25 |
kwwii | I made a usplash for the old version too, to if we have to revert, I am ready | 01:25 |
pitti | ATM it works neither on my powerpc nor on my amd64 | 01:25 |
mdz | this is decision time | 01:25 |
kwwii | but still, everything else is done to some extent, the usplash is still the test theme | 01:25 |
Kamion | I don't expect getting it to work on powerpc would take much effort | 01:25 |
pitti | mjg59: oh, right, it was nvidia specific, right? | 01:25 |
mdz | kwwii: ok, no need to wait then; land the high-res stuff | 01:25 |
mjg59 | There may be issues on specific hardware, but in general it's fine | 01:25 |
Kamion | I made it work on powerpc initially way back when, and it was only a few hours' work | 01:25 |
seb128 | my desktop doesn't boot with the new usplash | 01:25 |
mdz | seb128: filed a bug? | 01:25 |
kwwii | mdz: cool, will do | 01:25 |
mjg59 | seb128: Is that new as in generally, or new as in since this morning? | 01:25 |
seb128 | mdz: not yet | 01:26 |
Seveas | seb128, 'new usplash' is rather undescriptive, 4 versions landed in the past 2 days, each fixing several bugs | 01:26 |
Kamion | Seveas: 5 :) | 01:26 |
Seveas | heh | 01:26 |
sivang | hi all | 01:26 |
kwwii | it would be really cool to get it working on ppc well so that I can test what I am making | 01:26 |
sivang | sorry for being late. | 01:26 |
mjg59 | seb128: I believe those too be fixed | 01:26 |
seb128 | mjg59: new from this week, but services-admin basically emptied my /etc/rc[0-6] .d and I only restored a part of it so I want to reinstall before opening a bug | 01:26 |
mdz | seb128: ok, please confirm this week (with a live CD if that's easiest) | 01:27 |
mjg59 | At the moment I'm trying to work out why a piece of previously working hardware is now failing to (as far as I can tell) even execute the Linux wakeup code | 01:27 |
seb128 | I get the splash followed by a black screen instead of gdm | 01:27 |
mjg59 | seb128: Yes, that should be fixed | 01:27 |
seb128 | mdz: yeah, will do tomorrow | 01:27 |
mdz | kwwii: Kamion will have a try at it when he gets a chance | 01:28 |
seb128 | mjg59: will try after meeting with the current version to make sure | 01:28 |
mdz | kwwii: if possible try on another machine | 01:28 |
seb128 | I might not have rebooted since the update | 01:28 |
mdz | kwwii: or have Riddell email you photos :-) | 01:28 |
kwwii | :-) | 01:28 |
mdz | kwwii: thanks | 01:28 |
mdz | fschoep: next | 01:28 |
fschoep | Done: | 01:28 |
fschoep | * theme-teams: collect final versions of artwork | 01:28 |
fschoep | * community artwork: package best available artwork, mad props to Daniel Holbach on this one as well | 01:28 |
fschoep | * community artwork: contact sabdfl on progress and direction | 01:28 |
fschoep | * sound-themes: package best available sounds | 01:28 |
fschoep | * gtk-theme: minor tweaks | 01:28 |
fschoep | * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: finalized iconprio stuff, props to Daniel again for updating the website, contacted sabdfl along the way | 01:28 |
fschoep | * ubuntu-art-complete-highcon-icons: introduced Henrik to tienne Bersace, looks like this is going to go well | 01:28 |
fschoep | Ongoing: | 01:28 |
fschoep | * art-polish-human-gtk-theme: decide on color tweaks based on artwork direction | 01:28 |
fschoep | * community-artwork: polish and rework parts to sabdfl's liking, fix outstanding bugs | 01:28 |
fschoep | * sound-themes: tweaking and polishing of sounds | 01:28 |
fschoep | * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: contact Dave to start work after sabdfl approves the scheduled list of work | 01:28 |
fschoep | Blocked: | 01:28 |
fschoep | * theme-teams: there seems to be no Art Council in place, who will approve theme team work for inclusion? | 01:28 |
fschoep | * usplash-artwork: running to stand still - has the target stopped moving yet? | 01:29 |
iwj | fschoep: I saw some mails or questions from my week off about the firefox human theme; did you get the help you needed ? | 01:29 |
mdz | fschoep: which components have landed in edgy today? | 01:29 |
mdz | iwj: my firefox looks humanish | 01:29 |
iwj | mdz: Mine too :-). | 01:30 |
fschoep | iwj: Not sure what you mean? | 01:30 |
dholbach | mdz: gdm, sounds, session, wallpapers, gtk theme | 01:30 |
fschoep | darn | 01:30 |
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | ||
fschoep | thank dholbach | 01:30 |
iwj | fschoep: Well, if you don't have anything outstanding then that's fine by me :-4~). | 01:30 |
=== PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
kwwii | good to hear that fschoep and myself are both loosing sleep over the usplash :-) | 01:30 |
iwj | Oops, my mouth exploded. | 01:30 |
fschoep | iwj: I wondered though | 01:30 |
mdz | dholbach: and what remains to be done? | 01:30 |
fschoep | iwj: Is the Human theme now default for Edgy? | 01:30 |
fschoep | mdz: usplash | 01:30 |
fschoep | mdz: human icons, GTK color tweaks | 01:30 |
mdz | fschoep: are there candidates for usplash? | 01:31 |
fschoep | mdz: some bland and ugly ones | 01:31 |
fschoep | based on 16 color 640x400 restrictions | 01:31 |
mdz | nothing we can roll out? | 01:31 |
iwj | fschoep: Yes; I put that change into the main bzr so you'll have picked it up and as mdz says default setups get it now. | 01:31 |
fschoep | mdz: we can roll something out, sure but it will hardly be better and less colorful than the test card | 01:31 |
mdz | fschoep: please get a high-res one together; if nothing else we can use the standard logo and it will look better than what we have | 01:31 |
Seveas | (there is a test 1024x768 + 800x600 theme in the usplash source using many of the new shiny features) | 01:32 |
fschoep | mdz: sabdfl kind of disgrees there | 01:32 |
mdz | fschoep: today is the deadline | 01:32 |
fschoep | mdz: I think - | 01:32 |
fschoep | mdz: well | 01:32 |
Keybuk | remember that the usplash artwork should go in the themes packages | 01:32 |
Keybuk | not in the usplash package | 01:32 |
fschoep | mdz: I need some input on Mark first | 01:32 |
mdz | fschoep: he's travelling and we cannot block on him | 01:33 |
Seveas | Keybuk, i know -- the theme won't even build in-tree | 01:33 |
Seveas | That's the reason I split off usplash-dev | 01:33 |
kwwii | fschoep: I should discuss the usplash with you...from the wishes for the dapper cycle and the new 256 color, I get we could do something nice | 01:33 |
kwwii | s/get/bet | 01:33 |
mdz | fschoep: it's important to get this in; we can still iterate on it but need a starting point now | 01:33 |
fschoep | mdz: sure, I think | 01:33 |
fschoep | mdz: like, now? | 01:34 |
mdz | fschoep: tomorrow | 01:34 |
fschoep | mdz: OK, I'll get something in | 01:34 |
mdz | fschoep: thanks; let me know if you run into trouble | 01:34 |
fschoep | mdz: OK | 01:34 |
mdz | Kamion: next | 01:34 |
fschoep | uh | 01:35 |
fschoep | Can I please get some input on the Art Council question? | 01:35 |
Kamion | (waiting) | 01:35 |
fschoep | Is there going to be one soon? | 01:35 |
fschoep | Does anyone remotely know what the AC is going to be? | 01:35 |
mdz | fschoep: you make the call on the themes to include | 01:35 |
fschoep | mdz: OK | 01:36 |
mdz | the release can't block on organizing a new team | 01:36 |
mdz | Kamion: go ahead | 01:36 |
Kamion | Done: | 01:36 |
Kamion | cdrom-based-dist-upgrades: Added upgrader to CD images, thanks to a patch from mvo. | 01:36 |
Kamion | no-more-devfs: Done. | 01:36 |
Kamion | livefs-access: Sound support theoretically in, but it appears to produce just beeps at best and it's hideous assembly code that I don't understand, so I've disabled this. However, we did manage to improve keyboard navigation on the accessibility menu and clean up some of the access options. | 01:36 |
Kamion | sane-installer-keyboard: Mostly done, apart from translations of layout and variant names, which will probably take a while to organise. We can test all the rest of it without that though. I'll push console-s | 01:36 |
mdz | mvo: is c-b-d-u testable? | 01:36 |
Kamion | etup up to minimal tomorrow morning once my upgrade path changes have built. | 01:36 |
Kamion | live-cd-stacked-filesystems: Wrote the ubiquity side of this, which will be needed once the filesystems appear in corruption. | 01:36 |
mvo | mdz: yes | 01:36 |
Kamion | misc: Reviewed and merged oem-config KDE patch from abattoir. Haven't tested it yet. | 01:36 |
Kamion | Deferred: | 01:36 |
Kamion | ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: I decided I wasn't going to get far enough with this before FF to be worth the time right now, so I've deferred it. Oh well. | 01:36 |
Kamion | To do: | 01:36 |
Kamion | sane-installer-keyboard: I expect to spend much of next week sorting out loose ends here (with Tollef, if he's available). | 01:36 |
mdz | mvo: does it require a dapper backport? | 01:36 |
Kamion | misc: Google Summer of Code final reports, and whatever else comes up. usplash powerpc debugging, as discussed. | 01:36 |
mdz | I think I mailed about this, but don't remember your reply | 01:36 |
mvo | mdz: full support yes, if we are happy with documenting to run "sh /cdrom/cdromdistupgrade", then not | 01:37 |
mdz | mvo: we'll want full support certainly | 01:37 |
mvo | full support == hal based cd detection | 01:37 |
mdz | mvo: I assume it's trivial reuse of the code we already had | 01:37 |
mvo | yes | 01:37 |
mvo | the patch should be easy (and the feature was done in a seperate bzr branch to make the backporting easy) | 01:38 |
mdz | Kamion: are you confident about sane-installer-keyboard? | 01:39 |
=== PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
Kamion | mdz: yes, reasonably. Upstream says it still has trouble with non-PC-like keymaps but that's at worst confined to powerpc. | 01:39 |
Mithrandir | Kamion: I'm happy to help out with s-i-k next week, yes. | 01:39 |
mdz | ogra_: landing enormous merges during the feature freeze meeting -> grr | 01:40 |
Kamion | And it's *so* much easier to hack than the old console framework. | 01:40 |
ogra_ | mdz, sorry | 01:40 |
mdz | Kamion: ok, thanks | 01:40 |
mdz | ogra_: next | 01:40 |
ogra_ | * this-week: | 01:40 |
ogra_ | - student-control-panel-completion - implemented by pete savage, waits for MIR review, spec still waiting for approval | 01:40 |
ogra_ | - ltsp-login-and-session-handling - implemented, some cosmetic polish remains | 01:40 |
ogra_ | - ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration - implemented, ready for knot 3 | 01:40 |
ogra_ | - fully-automatic-swap-server (no info, deferred i guess :/ ) | 01:40 |
ogra_ | - plenty of small patches (g-p-m, gnome-session etc) | 01:40 |
ogra_ | * next-week: | 01:40 |
ogra_ | - clean up ltsp after the merges, hunt the last bugs | 01:40 |
ogra_ | - go through gnome-screensaver/gnome-power-manager buglist | 01:40 |
ogra_ | - knot 3 | 01:40 |
ogra_ | - flight to detroit ltsp meeting | 01:40 |
ogra_ | * other specs: | 01:40 |
ogra_ | - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs - talked to infinity, we want to meet after FF | 01:40 |
ogra_ | - ltsp-convergence: (no progress, multi distro meeting sept. 14th-19th) according to sbalneav only | 01:40 |
ogra_ | two features (rdesktop and lp_server integration (the latter is on the buglist for edgy, needs some lines in | 01:40 |
Kamion | I expect the installer may glitch a bit tomorrow, but it shouldn't be hard to fix; I've run complete installs with console-setup in hacked-up environments. | 01:40 |
ogra_ | the initscript and testing)) and optional xdmcp support missing | 01:41 |
ogra_ | - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: code merged from debian (untested yet) | 01:41 |
ogra_ | Kamion, fine with me ... | 01:41 |
mdz | ogra_: rodarvus was working on f-a-s-s, no? did he finish or pass on unfinished code? | 01:41 |
ogra_ | mdz, he said he was nearly done since two weeks before wiesbaden, but didnt want to show me the code | 01:42 |
mdz | ogra_: please send an email asking for it and CC me | 01:42 |
ogra_ | last edubuntu meeting (wed.) he said he'd start from scratch :/ | 01:42 |
mdz | ogra_: your 3 edgy targets are all implemented, congrats | 01:43 |
pitti | ogra_: do you need any urgent MIRs? | 01:43 |
ogra_ | mdz, ok, even though i have a workaround implemented that creates the swapfiles | 01:43 |
mdz | I don't think I'll make it to the ltsp meeting | 01:43 |
ogra_ | so it *can* be defarred and get done rigght in edgy+1 | 01:43 |
ogra_ | sad :/ | 01:43 |
mdz | ogra_: yes, I saw that and assumed it was fully-automatic-swap-server landing | 01:43 |
ogra_ | roger waters will miss you :) | 01:43 |
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mdz | tell roger hello | 01:44 |
ogra_ | no its just a call through the ltspfs socket to create the swapfiles | 01:44 |
mdz | ogra_: you have booked your flight already, right? | 01:44 |
sivang | ogra_: going to see pink floyd ?? :-) | 01:44 |
ogra_ | sivang, only roger :) | 01:44 |
fschoep | wish you were here | 01:44 |
ogra_ | mdz, yup | 01:44 |
ogra_ | all sorted | 01:44 |
mdz | ok, good | 01:44 |
Keybuk | sivang: and I thought they said they didn't need no education | 01:44 |
sivang | Keybuk: HAHA | 01:45 |
mdz | ogra_: thanks | 01:45 |
ogra_ | i got a very nice mail from sbalneav today about the -convergence btw | 01:45 |
mdz | has anyone heard from BenC? I sent an SMS | 01:45 |
ogra_ | i'll forward it to you | 01:45 |
Keybuk | mdz: only earlier today | 01:45 |
sivang | ogra_: is he using edubuntu ? | 01:45 |
mdz | Riddell: next | 01:45 |
Riddell | done: | 01:45 |
Riddell | specs all implemented, except adept ones which are deferred | 01:45 |
Riddell | KDE oem-config testing, Colin has merged (thanks to abattoir) | 01:45 |
Riddell | kubuntu-hwdb: fixes, usability improvements and adding kwwii's artwork | 01:45 |
Riddell | langpacks-desktopfile-kde: working well, reuploaded everything to pick up .desktop file edits | 01:45 |
ogra_ | sivang, yes, ltsp.org completely emerged to ubuntu/edubuntu everywhere now | 01:45 |
Riddell | kubuntu-system-settings-usability: updated packages (thanks to sime for implementing), same for kubuntu-power-management (thanks to Lure and sebas for much work there) | 01:45 |
Riddell | kubuntu-accessibility: required casper changes in | 01:45 |
Riddell | KDE 4 pre-release packaged and in NEW | 01:45 |
Riddell | blocked: ruby on ppc | 01:45 |
Riddell | todo: | 01:45 |
Riddell | REVU day | 01:45 |
Riddell | koffice 1.6 beta | 01:46 |
Riddell | merge KDE ubiquity with Colin's changes to GTK frontend | 01:46 |
Riddell | look at moving ubuntu-docs from svn to bzr | 01:46 |
Riddell | knot 3 | 01:46 |
dholbach | Riddell: REVU DAY! | 01:46 |
mdz | Riddell: what's wrong with ruby? | 01:46 |
=== dholbach hugs Riddell | ||
Kamion | KDE 4 is targeted at universe, I assume? | 01:46 |
mdz | Kamion: yes | 01:46 |
Riddell | mdz: doesn't compile on powerpc | 01:46 |
Hobbsee | Riddell: the list of crucial "must fix" bugs for edgy, too | 01:46 |
ogra_ | ugh, two KDE versions ? | 01:46 |
Riddell | Kamion: certainly | 01:46 |
Kamion | I'll look at it tomorrow, it's my archive day | 01:46 |
ogra_ | that will cause confusion | 01:46 |
Hobbsee | ogra_: dapper effectively runs with 3. *shrugs* | 01:47 |
Riddell | ogra_: they're clearly marked as being for developers only | 01:47 |
mdz | there are alternate versions of all sorts of things in universe ;-) | 01:47 |
mdz | Riddell: looking good, thanks | 01:47 |
mdz | seb128: next | 01:47 |
seb128 | Done: | 01:47 |
seb128 | - GNOME 2.16.0 | 01:47 |
seb128 | - bug triage | 01:47 |
seb128 | - desktop bugs fixing | 01:47 |
seb128 | - caught up with a part of my mails lag | 01:47 |
seb128 | - SoC review | 01:47 |
seb128 | - gnome-system-tools bounty discussions and patches review | 01:47 |
seb128 | To Do: | 01:47 |
seb128 | - bug triage, bug triage, bug triage | 01:47 |
seb128 | - bugs fixing too | 01:47 |
mdz | is SoC all wrapped up now? | 01:48 |
Kamion | the final reports are due tomorrow | 01:48 |
=== mvo needs to finish his review for soc | ||
Kamion | so yes | 01:48 |
mdz | and after that we'll have met our obligations and have nothing more to do, right? | 01:48 |
ogra_ | my student cheated me and told me its wednesday :) | 01:48 |
Kamion | right | 01:48 |
=== pitti just sent the final SoC report | ||
=== seb128 too | ||
=== PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
doko | mdz: still have to cash in the money ... | 01:48 |
seb128 | just before the meeting | 01:48 |
mdz | seb128: the g-s-t stuff is progressing, right? not blocked on me anymore | 01:49 |
seb128 | mdz: yeah, a package with most of the patches has been uploaded yesterday | 01:49 |
mdz | oh good. I'm a bit behind on -changes | 01:49 |
ogra_ | is it upstart friendly now ? | 01:50 |
seb128 | ogra_: upstart makes no difference, does it? | 01:50 |
mdz | seb128: how is the bug list? | 01:50 |
seb128 | ogra_: you still use update-rc.d no? | 01:50 |
doko | seb128: are you aware of the gnomeVFS ABI changes? | 01:50 |
Keybuk | "friendly" ? | 01:50 |
ogra_ | seb128, i thought it broke your upstart | 01:50 |
seb128 | mdz: we still have difficulties to keep it at a correct level | 01:51 |
mdz | it shouldn't need any changes for this phase of upstart deployment, as i understand it | 01:51 |
pitti | doko: tell us you're joking? | 01:51 |
seb128 | mdz: my bug mails lag was ~270 on friday | 01:51 |
seb128 | it's ~370 now | 01:51 |
Keybuk | ogra_: it wiped his /etc/rc?.d (except for the READMEs) -- nothing to do with upstart | 01:51 |
mdz | seb128: who is working on desktop triage other than you and dholbach? | 01:51 |
doko | pitti: no, that's probably the reason why the OOo file selector doesn't work and OOo terminates | 01:51 |
seb128 | mdz: some contributors | 01:52 |
ogra_ | Keybuk, ah | 01:52 |
seb128 | some of they triage a lot and do a good job | 01:52 |
seb128 | ("Vassilis Pandis" by example) | 01:52 |
Fujitsu | doko, I noticed that yesterday :( | 01:52 |
seb128 | but still, lot of bugs coming :/ | 01:52 |
seb128 | doko: the bonobo functions move? | 01:53 |
mdz | mostly upstream? | 01:53 |
seb128 | mdz: yeah, we usually fix distro bugs fairly quickly (if they are an issue) | 01:53 |
seb128 | 95% of the bugs is upstream material | 01:53 |
doko | seb128: yeah, maybe | 01:53 |
seb128 | doko: it's a discutable "ABI change" then ;) | 01:54 |
mdz | seb128: are you and dholbach the only ones forwarding bugs upstream, or do others help as well? | 01:54 |
seb128 | doko: they moved some function from gnome-vfs to libbonobo which the linux linker handle fine | 01:54 |
dholbach | mdz: some rare few are forwarded upstream by others | 01:54 |
seb128 | mdz: 2-3 contributors help on that too, but they don't do a lot of forwarding | 01:55 |
doko | seb128: no, maybe the reason is dicutable, but not, that an existing application stops working; yeah, I know, our gnome law ... | 01:55 |
dholbach | mdz: but we have a list of "bugs to be forwarded upstream" now and I advertised it in some places | 01:55 |
mdz | we should encourage more folks to forward bugs upstream. is there a good howto? | 01:55 |
mdz | dholbach: oh, good. using a tag or something? | 01:55 |
dholbach | mdz: opening an empty upstream task is enough | 01:55 |
dholbach | mdz: you can search for them | 01:55 |
seb128 | mdz: opening an upstream task not linked to any bug as discussed in wiesbaden | 01:55 |
dholbach | mdz: for "you can get involved here" tasks we use 'ubuntulove' :-) | 01:55 |
mdz | you can search for that now? | 01:55 |
seb128 | looks like ;) | 01:56 |
mdz | oh, look at that. wonderful | 01:56 |
mdz | we should advertise that more widely | 01:56 |
mdz | need to move on though | 01:56 |
mdz | thanks seb128 | 01:56 |
mdz | sfllaw: next | 01:56 |
sfllaw | Done: | 01:56 |
sfllaw | * Bug triage | 01:56 |
sfllaw | * Looked into interns at Cgep John Abbott | 01:56 |
sfllaw | * Various meetings | 01:56 |
sfllaw | To do: | 01:56 |
sfllaw | * Bug triage | 01:56 |
sfllaw | * Prepare for UbuntuHugDay | 01:56 |
sfllaw | * Work with seb128 and dholbach to get a desktop triaging team in place | 01:56 |
sfllaw | * Get in touch with LaptopTestingTeam for installer testing | 01:56 |
mdz | sfllaw: let's make bug forwarding a highlight of this next bug day | 01:57 |
sfllaw | Sounds like a good plan. | 01:57 |
sfllaw | I'll construct some searches for that. | 01:57 |
mdz | thanks | 01:57 |
mdz | especially desktop team bugs | 01:57 |
dholbach | i added them to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bugs | 01:57 |
=== pitti wonders whether it's feasible to pythonize bug forwarding :) | ||
mdz | that requires only registering in one upstream bug tracker to forward lots of bugs | 01:57 |
sfllaw | Well, either GNOME or KDE. | 01:58 |
mdz | right | 01:58 |
sfllaw | Riddell: What are good search parameters for KDE bugs? | 01:58 |
Riddell | sfllaw: how do you mean? | 01:58 |
dholbach | kubuntu-team bugs | 01:58 |
mdz | sfllaw: were you in the loop on the milestone testing in montreal? how did it go from your perspective? | 01:58 |
sladen | pitti: single-page edit-describtion, edit-subject, click, go, Wizard for that in LP would be wonderful | 01:58 |
Riddell | kubuntu-team is subscribed to the important stuff | 01:59 |
sfllaw | mdz: With the certification lab? No, I think I missed the memo. | 01:59 |
sfllaw | mdz: I'll talk to them in person. | 01:59 |
mdz | sladen: filing bugs is easy; it's establishing communication between upstream and the reporter which is hard | 01:59 |
mdz | sfllaw: ok. the general plan is that they should test on the lab machines when we do a milestone | 01:59 |
Hobbsee | Riddell: sometimes. often not a lot. | 01:59 |
sfllaw | mdz: If jbailey is cool with that, I'm happy. | 02:00 |
mdz | for hardware issues specifically as well as the usual functional test | 02:00 |
mdz | sfllaw: jbailey and I agreed on this in mallorca, it's a done deal | 02:00 |
doko | sfllaw: please could you document the when-do-i-close/reject-a-bug-report? | 02:00 |
mdz | we basically need to do it anyway to keep up certifications, and we can get a lot of general testing along the way for free | 02:00 |
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mdz | sfllaw: ok, thanks | 02:01 |
mdz | zul: next? | 02:01 |
zul | Done: | 02:01 |
zul | * kernel security patches | 02:01 |
zul | * kernel security testing | 02:01 |
zul | * kernel bug triaging | 02:01 |
zul | * new xen-tools fixing | 02:01 |
zul | * new xen snapshot | 02:01 |
zul | To-Do: | 02:02 |
zul | xen-restricted moduels | 02:02 |
zul | more drivers for the xen kernel | 02:02 |
zul | xen rcs control | 02:02 |
mdz | zul: is there a howto for how to try out xen? | 02:02 |
zul | xen bug fixing | 02:02 |
zul | yes its on the wiki | 02:02 |
Mithrandir | zul: do you want my x-r-m stuff or do you have something mostly-working already? | 02:02 |
mdz | zul: I suggest highlighting it in this week's UWN to get people interested | 02:02 |
zul | Mithrandir: can you send me your xrm stuff im trying to get the new snapshot working again | 02:03 |
zul | mdz: sure | 02:03 |
mdz | zul: cool, thanks | 02:03 |
mdz | mvo: next | 02:03 |
mvo | Did: | 02:03 |
mvo | - Implemented CDRom support in dist-upgrader and put it onto the CD | 02:03 |
mvo | - dist-upgrader testing | 02:03 |
mvo | - update-manager improvments (better dist-upgrader integration, better cache representation) | 02:03 |
mvo | - added printer-sharing to gnome-cups-manager | 02:03 |
mvo | - implemented apt--install-recommends support for only certain sections (to implement meta-packages recommends support) | 02:03 |
mvo | - added recommends-support to germinate | 02:03 |
mvo | - bug triage | 02:03 |
mvo | - SoC mentoring (apt-sync) | 02:03 |
mvo | - misc stuff (synaptic,gnome-app-install,dist-upgrader fixes, command-not-found) | 02:03 |
mvo | Specs: | 02:03 |
mvo | - cdrom-based-dist-upgrades (ready, needs testing) | 02:03 |
mvo | - dependency-removal (aptitude needs performance tuning, otherwise ready; will display auto-remove list if non-empty and give hint to use apt-get autoremove) | 02:03 |
mvo | - gai-popcon: implemented, we could do with more people using popocon | 02:03 |
mvo | - recommends-support (ready, only turned by default for meta-packages now) | 02:03 |
mvo | - apt-ddtp (ready, seb128 discovered it today. the rosetta<->souyz think it not automatic yet, but needs manual updating) | 02:03 |
mvo | - command-not-found-magic (in the archive) | 02:03 |
mvo | - simple-popcon-participation (done) | 02:03 |
mvo | Will do: | 02:03 |
mvo | - bugs | 02:03 |
mvo | - test the auto-dist-upgrade testing going on a official machine | 02:03 |
iwj | mvo: is g-a-i fixed now ? :-) | 02:03 |
mvo | iwj: *shhhhsss* | 02:04 |
mdz | mvo: most of your stuff is in a state of landed-but-needs-testing...I suggest the same as for zul; get the word out about these features and encourage folks to test | 02:04 |
mdz | UWN, -devel-announce, as appropriate | 02:04 |
mdz | there's some cool stuff in there | 02:04 |
mvo | I will do that | 02:05 |
mdz | thanks mvo | 02:05 |
Kamion | I should do that with s-i-k too | 02:05 |
mdz | iwj: next | 02:05 |
=== mvo considers getting a blog | ||
mdz | Kamion: indeed | 02:05 |
mdz | there's no rule that we can't have more than one feature of the week in UWN ;-) | 02:05 |
iwj | week after the sprint: was on holiday | 02:05 |
iwj | package-dependency-field-breaks: Changes to apt and aptitude now properly done: apt changes to support Break fully (from wiesbaden, now tested, working) and aptitude changes to treat it like Conflicts. List of packages constructed for deployment for edgy upgrades - about a dozen in required and standard are my first ones to look at. | 02:05 |
iwj | suggest-packages-for-filetypes: Completed during the sprint (thanks to mvo for some optimisations to improve gnome-app-install's speed too) but unfortunately broken since. mvo has the token atm for gnome-app-install atm AIUI, which is the last thing still to be put back to working. | 02:05 |
iwj | automated-testing-deployment: No change since last report. | 02:05 |
iwj | next week: firefox beta 2 (joy) (needs uvf exception, obviously); taking a look at the bug lists; trying out Breaks (let's try again) in a package or two, to check all is well before doing it a bit more widely; etc. | 02:05 |
iwj | if I'm really lucky: automated-testing: packaging the xen setup scripts into autopkgtest | 02:05 |
mdz | iwj: the last apt upload I saw said that the breaks changes were untested; is that no longer true? | 02:06 |
iwj | There's nothing in the archive that uses the breaks changes but I have tested them locally and they DTRT. | 02:06 |
=== PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
mvo | iwj: sorry for the breakage, I will fix that tomorrow | 02:06 |
iwj | mvo: NP :-) | 02:06 |
mdz | ok, please land at least one Breaks this week (leaving time to see the effects before you go for the weekend) to start exercising it | 02:07 |
iwj | mdz: Right, willdo. | 02:07 |
mdz | iwj: is there still hope of seeing a final firefox for edgy? | 02:07 |
iwj | mdz: I haven't been following ff upstream. | 02:07 |
iwj | So I don't know. | 02:08 |
mdz | the last I heard from them they hoped to land it before our final date, but it sounded awfully close | 02:08 |
iwj | Heh heh. | 02:08 |
Kamion | iwj: feels to me like we should avoid Breaks in required and important for now, since that could be in dpkg/apt's dependency chain | 02:08 |
iwj | I think we'll just have to go with whatever beta is available, really. | 02:08 |
dholbach | there was a new version to experimental, no? | 02:08 |
Kamion | at least, extreme care would be called for there | 02:08 |
iwj | Kamion: That shouldn't be a problem, really. Talk about it tomorrow morning ? | 02:08 |
Kamion | iwj: sure | 02:08 |
Kamion | when we're both more awake | 02:08 |
iwj | Quite. | 02:08 |
mdz | ok | 02:08 |
mdz | iwj: so -breaks can go to beta status once it's being exercised in the archive, and you'll be ok for FF | 02:09 |
iwj | Right. | 02:09 |
=== zul [n=bob@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
iwj | I'll try to get a Breaks or two out by lunchtime tomorrow. | 02:09 |
mdz | great, thanks | 02:09 |
mdz | doko: next | 02:09 |
iwj | 01:09 <iwj> I'll try to get a Breaks or two out by lunchtime tomorrow. | 02:09 |
iwj | 01:09 <mdz> great, thanks | 02:09 |
iwj | Err, sorry :-). | 02:09 |
doko | - this week | 02:09 |
doko | - edgy-toolchain: address libstdc++ ABI issues on powerpc and sparc; mcpp | 02:09 |
doko | update | 02:09 |
doko | - java-roadmap: provide a 32bit java runtime on amd64 | 02:09 |
doko | - openoffice.org - OOo 2.0.4 rc1 packages, ia32-libs updates, | 02:09 |
doko | -l10n and -amd64 updates for dapper-proposed, test builds on all | 02:10 |
doko | release architectures, testing on i386 and powerpc, work around | 02:10 |
doko | sparc problems with smp kernels. | 02:10 |
doko | build problems: OOo currently only builds on the machines in the | 02:10 |
doko | datacenter, not on fresh edgy installs. same problem we had in | 02:10 |
doko | dapper at the end. | 02:10 |
doko | - python2.5 added as a supported python version. python2.5 related | 02:10 |
doko | rebuilds scheduled for tonight. | 02:10 |
doko | - other: some toolchain related phone calls, SoC nagging, machine upgrade | 02:10 |
doko | - this week / next week: | 02:10 |
doko | - OOo tests, bug triage | 02:10 |
doko | - python cleanup | 02:10 |
doko | - OOoCon | 02:10 |
doko | - edgy+1: write a checker/generator for "Replaces" fields ... | 02:10 |
iwj | doko: Replaces> eh ? | 02:10 |
mdz | doko: are your statuses in LP up to date? | 02:10 |
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doko | iwj: I'm tired to find out file moves between binaries built from the same source by hand | 02:11 |
mdz | none of your specs are past 'good progress' yet | 02:11 |
mvo | doko: what about the upgrade problem from dapper->edgy when python2.3 breaks? I have seen a few duplicates of this | 02:11 |
doko | mdz: will update them tonight. | 02:11 |
iwj | doko: Ah. | 02:11 |
iwj | Count me interested ... | 02:11 |
mdz | doko: is edgy-toolchain-roadmap complete for feature freeze? | 02:11 |
Seveas | mvo, 'a few'... closer to 'a few dozen' | 02:11 |
mdz | and python-roadmap? | 02:12 |
mvo | Seveas: :) | 02:12 |
doko | yes, it was complete last week (if you count the ABI problem as a bug report) | 02:12 |
mdz | doko: please send me a mail when they are up to date so that we can discuss, and remember to update before meetings | 02:12 |
doko | mdz: ok | 02:12 |
mdz | thanks | 02:12 |
mdz | did I miss anyone? | 02:13 |
Keybuk | me | 02:13 |
mdz | Keybuk: you're up | 02:13 |
Keybuk | New Note 11 | 02:13 |
Keybuk | Done: | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * On Leave | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * Upstart into main and ubuntu-minimal | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * Transition requires a double dist-upgrade run, or use of the update tool (can't be helped due to dpkg/apt "features") | 02:13 |
Keybuk | To do: | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * Start on some bug fixes | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * Finish off upstart article for Linux.com | 02:13 |
Keybuk | BootMessageLogging: | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * I think we were on crack when we wrote this spec, it turned into something of a christmas tree | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * Assuming it's ok to simplify it to just "boot messages are logged to a file, and not displayed if 'quiet' on the kernel command-line" then it can be marked as implemented with my next upstart upload and we can focus on the other things later | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * Given the above, checkroot, checkfs and cryptdisks need special treatment -- but they'll need that for the new usplash too anyway | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * Otherwise I'm deferring it and leaving messages on the console (new usplash hides them on tty8 anyway) | 02:13 |
Keybuk | DashAsBinSh: | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * Implemented early in the cycle | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * Opted not to change /bin/sh from a diverted symlink as the code that's there works with lots of different shells and actually works, no matter how unaesthetic | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * A few, but no major, shell issues have been reported and dealt with. I'm not aware of any outstanding ones. | 02:13 |
Keybuk | ReplacementInit: | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * Really happy with how well this has gone, has been installed by default for a few days and still only getting trivial bugs | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * Deferred changes to initscripts to edgy+1 due to problems with LVM, etc. uncovered during testing; would rather attack these on a fresh release than break edgy at this point | 02:13 |
mdz | Keybuk: I didn't notice upgrade weirdness with upstart, though I had some issues with oo.o which may have masked it | 02:13 |
Keybuk | * Have an active community for upstart already | 02:14 |
Keybuk | * Already speccing out edgy+1 things that will probably be implemented "upstream" as we go anyway | 02:14 |
Keybuk | * General query ... given that development will be continuing (e.g. changes to events and job states coming rsn) should I maintain this in edgy post-FF or only upload bug fixes and instead have a separate archive? | 02:14 |
Keybuk | Teardown: | 02:14 |
Keybuk | * Implemented early in the cycle | 02:14 |
Keybuk | * A few things have crept back in, will treat those as bugs | 02:14 |
Keybuk | AutomakeTransition: | 02:14 |
Keybuk | * deferred until edgy+1 | 02:14 |
Keybuk | * Debian will probably do most of this for us | 02:14 |
Keybuk | * automake 1.9 is the highest priority alternative in edgy | 02:14 |
Keybuk | LibAtaForAtaDisks | 02:14 |
Keybuk | * Not strictly my spec, but I helped with it | 02:14 |
Keybuk | * The kernel-side was deferred in favour of waiting for upstream to shake out the bugs now the patches are landing in 2.6.19 | 02:14 |
Keybuk | * The UUID stuff went in though, we have working mount-by-uuid, swap-by-uuid and resume-by-uuid | 02:14 |
Keybuk | * Unless you use any filesystem fabbione cares about, of course, but he can fix those problems :p | 02:14 |
Keybuk | -- | 02:14 |
Keybuk | oops, that was a little more verbose than I intended :p it looked smaller on the note | 02:14 |
Keybuk | mdz: basically dpkg/apt/synaptic will refuse to upgrade ubuntu-minimal on the first try, because it'd remove an essential package (sysvinit) | 02:14 |
Keybuk | but on the second try, sysvinit got upgraded to non-essential, so then it updates ubuntu-minimal, removes sysvinit and installs upstart | 02:14 |
Keybuk | the update tool special-cases this | 02:14 |
mdz | Keybuk: the important bit of boot-message-logging was capturing console output | 02:14 |
Keybuk | and everyone who does it by hand is pretty used to looping several times anyway | 02:15 |
mvo | Keybuk: I teached the upgrader about it already | 02:15 |
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mdz | Keybuk: will tomorrow's upstart handle that part? | 02:15 |
Keybuk | mdz: indeed, it will. console output will be sent to /var/log/boot | 02:15 |
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Kamion | Keybuk: oh, err, we never did do yaboot, unless Ben did it | 02:15 |
Kamion | IIRC he took the token from me with my wholehearted blessing | 02:16 |
Kamion | for libata-for-ata-disks | 02:16 |
mdz | Keybuk: ok then, I'd be happy with that. iirc I raised some questions about the feeping creaturism in that spec at the summit ;-) | 02:16 |
Keybuk | mdz: ok, that'll go in today | 02:16 |
mdz | Keybuk: regarding ongoing development of upstart, it depends on what you plan to do. intrusive stuff shouldn't go into edgy at this point | 02:17 |
Keybuk | defining intrusive is tricky ;p | 02:17 |
mdz | but simple and safe is ok for the sake of minimizing branchiness and keeping momentum | 02:18 |
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mdz | Keybuk: having a diversion responsible for handling my /bin/sh gives me the creeps | 02:18 |
Keybuk | of course, the only things using upstart in edgy are the upstart package itself | 02:18 |
Keybuk | mdz: I know ... but that diversion code works, and works for a whole number of different shells | 02:18 |
mdz | Keybuk: the impact of bugs can be...er...severe :-) | 02:19 |
iwj | Hit ^C at the wrong moment and *crunch* | 02:19 |
iwj | IMO it's a serious bug for one of the essential bits of an essential package to be diverted. | 02:19 |
mdz | Keybuk: let's play it by ear; let's talk about the specific changes you want ot land as they come along | 02:19 |
Keybuk | we never actually made dash essential | 02:20 |
iwj | Unless you take huge especial care of carefulness. | 02:20 |
Kamion | Keybuk: bash is essential and /bin/sh is its essential bit | 02:20 |
iwj | bash is essential and /bin/sh is its most essential bit. | 02:20 |
Keybuk | mdz: *nods* my gut feeling is that I should branch it at the stable point for FF, and then be conversative on the edgy branch | 02:20 |
Kamion | wow, snap | 02:20 |
mdz | Kamion,iwj: ... | 02:20 |
Keybuk | right | 02:20 |
Keybuk | that's the reason we didn't make dash essential <g> there was no need | 02:20 |
mdz | ok, on that note | 02:21 |
mdz | any other business? | 02:21 |
Mithrandir | I'd like to go to sleep. :-P | 02:21 |
iwj | I would delete Keybuk's /bin/sh but I need some sleep first :-). | 02:21 |
mdz | oh, one quick note: we now have a 'Not Started' state in the spec tracker. use it. | 02:21 |
mdz | no spec should be in 'Unknown' state anymore unless we're truly unsure about where it stands, which will be an unusual case | 02:22 |
Kamion | will specs start out at that rather than Unknown in the future? | 02:22 |
mdz | unclear; I think Unknown might make sense as an initial state because sometimes specs postdate the start of work | 02:22 |
Kamion | mdz: one of the five Edgy specs in Unknown is yours :-) | 02:22 |
mdz | Kamion: I'll be fixing that shortly | 02:23 |
Keybuk | d'oh | 02:23 |
mdz | ok, good night folks | 02:23 |
Kamion | oh, which reminds me, we never turned on universe and multiverse by default for edgy | 02:23 |
Kamion | -> #ubuntu-devel, I won't hold up people's sleep for this | 02:23 |
dholbach | good night folks | 02:23 |
mdz | agreed | 02:23 |
iwj | Goodnight ... | 02:23 |
mdz | adjourned | 02:23 |
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fschoep | good night everyone | 02:23 |
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pitti | good night everyone *yawn* | 02:24 |
mvo | good night everyone | 02:24 |
kwwii | night | 02:26 |
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Hobbsee | jono: you still around? | 02:28 |
jono | Hobbsee, yep for a few mins | 02:29 |
jono | :) | 02:29 |
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | ||
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