/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/09/08/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

HawkwindIf the user doesn't have the Gnome stuff installed, he gets frustrated because the wiki is giving false info12:11
FujitsuOK, /me shuts up.12:11
HobbseeFujitsu: effectively, and that the people in #kubuntu-devel only tend to do kde based packages, instead of any and all12:11
Hobbseesorry, still waking up here12:11
nixternalhehe12:12
gnomefreakHawkwind: ive been seeing alot of wikis saying open your fav. text editor (i dont like it but thats what people have been doing)12:12
Hawkwindgnomefreak: Even that we need to change IMO12:12
nixternalgnomefreak: you have to look over the Doc style guide as well, since that is what they really wanted to style the wiki after as well12:12
HawkwindA lot of users have no idea what editor exists in Linux12:12
imbrandonHawkwind, ok i still dont see this as a problem as you come accross them fixem ? 12:12
nixternalbut i agree with you, the "favorite text editor" is annoying12:12
gnomefreakagreed it would be nice for them to have the pastable command12:12
nixternalbecause someone might not know about kate or kwrite, let alone nano, vi, vim and so forth12:13
Hawkwindimbrandon: Yes.  abattoir had a lot more specific stuff to say...I wasn't really prepared to speak on this subject :)12:13
nixternalok...i think this has been beaten enough ;)12:13
tomaHawkwind: a general replace gksu/kdesu does not seem very difficult for me as a bystander12:13
RiddellKST dudes: is there anything you need from us?12:13
Jucatoimbrandon: fixing the docs/wikis is just one of the things we'd like to do. another is to coordinate this little bits and pieces of information and make sure that they blend together as a whole12:13
gnomefreaktoma: its not12:13
HawkwindRiddell: At the moment I can't think of anything.  I'll let abattoir speak to you or others about that when he's here next12:13
imbrandonJucato, sure and i said i 100% agree, go for it, i just urged you do it within the teams already established12:14
Tonio_Jucato: that requires defining the bases of a support branch in the wiki, since it went to all directions till now12:14
nixternalHawkwind, Jucato, and abattoir, i would also recommend you talk to Burgwork / Burgundavia, or mdke when you get a chance as well concerning the wiki and documentation... #ubuntu-doc is their hangout12:14
Hawkwindnixternal: Noted12:15
Jucatoadded to auto-join :)12:15
alleeOne wish: if browser-identification is 'konqueor'  css color should be blue! 12:15
nixternalbelieve me when i say, you open up the can or worms on the wiki though in the channel, prepare to work for 11 days straight ;)12:15
RiddellI'm very happy to see an inititive to ensure community support is as good for kubuntu as it is for ubuntu12:15
Tonio_allee: hehe ;)12:15
nixternalor even 40 days and 40 nights ;)12:15
Riddellmake sure you work with or within the existing teams and everyone will be happy12:15
nixternalRiddell: +112:16
Hobbsee+1 Riddell 12:16
Tonio_yes, I agree12:16
=== nixternal notes that i have been there done that, and stepped on some toes...just trying to make sure others don't step on them sore toes i already did ;)
allee+1 Riddell12:16
Riddelland a paragraph for UWN would be cool too12:16
nixternalRiddell: i lost that, my fault there ;(12:16
claydoh+1 nixternal 12:16
tomaHawkwind: going for ops?12:16
Hawkwindtoma: That is correct12:17
Jucato:)12:17
Riddellthat's the next item12:17
Riddellwe don't really have a formal procedure for #kubuntu ops, I just do it if it seems sensible12:17
RiddellHawkwind: any reason you'd like to be an op?12:17
Riddelland anyone have any objections?12:17
alleeHawkwind, Jucato have fun, I really apprecaite any work in this direction!!12:17
HawkwindRiddell: Let me paste something I have pre-typed12:17
HawkwindI am here today for a couple of reasons.  One being the Kubuntu Support Team and the other is applying for the Kubuntu op team.  Why an op you ask ?  I feel I have many things I can bring to the channel and the community.  I have listed a few of those things on my wiki page.  The main reason I'm applying is because I am active on the channel 10+ hours a day, am very knowledgeable in both Linux and Kubuntu. I get along v12:17
Hawkwindery well with all users of the channel, including several of the other ops.  My op background consists of being an op for the #Mandrake/#Mandriva channel for 3 years, and the last 1 1/2 years of that was spent being the channels alternate contact.12:17
Hawkwindallee: Thank you :)12:18
imbrandonRiddell, Hawkwind, is arround alot and seems to have a level head in #kubuntu12:18
HawkwindBTW, here is my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hawkwind  and LP page: https://launchpad.net/people/hawkwind12:18
gnomefreaki like Hawkwind as an op as imbrandon points out he is around alot12:18
RiddellI'm satisfied, I'll do that after the meeting12:18
HobbseeRiddell: I object!   :P  No, i think Hawkwind would make a good op.  we really dont have terribly many ops in #kubuntu and most that we do have arent watching anyway, only responding if !ops is called - i know that's all i tend to do, at least12:18
toma10h+ ?12:19
nixternalWHAT!  a penguins head wearing a MICROSOFT colored bow tie =/12:19
Jucatolol12:19
tomaamazing12:19
imbrandons/gnomefreak/kdefreak/g  THERE the first fix to the doc's12:19
claydohI vote for Hawkwind 12:19
toma+112:19
gnomefreaklol12:19
RiddellTonio_: your item12:19
Tonio_yes12:19
gnomefreaki cant someone took it12:19
HawkwindThank you to everyone for the kind words :)12:19
claydoh#kubuntu would be easy compared to #mandriva12:19
Hobbsee=1, as i cant find the plus button12:19
nixternalhaha12:19
Hobbsee+ooh, there we go12:19
gnomefreak+112:19
Jucatolol12:19
Tonio_we have a few critical bugs that we need to focus on before release12:19
Hawkwindclaydoh: Hah, agreed12:19
Hobbseeit's still dark in here, i cant see the keyboard!12:20
Tonio_I think it would be nice to dedicate a wikipage to them12:20
imbrandonTonio_, agreed12:20
=== gnomefreak just fixed a bug in page nixternal gave us
Riddellbouncing k icon at startup12:20
Tonio_here is an example of what I call critical : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/5637712:20
UbugtuMalone bug 56377 in kdebase "klipper crashes on login " [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  12:20
Riddellyes, I do miss klipper12:20
tomaTonio_: yes, i said it before, i love lists which i could do when i'm bored.12:20
Tonio_that will touch any new profile and any new installation when edgy is out....12:20
RiddellTonio_: in theory we should be able to use launchpad to sort important bugs, but I agree a wiki page is probably easier12:21
Tonio_and I'm pretty sure we can find a very consistent list of things like this one12:21
gnomefreaki thought that was fixed removing ~/.klipperrc if it was changed from default as a workaround12:21
toma(copy & paste does not work, with or without klipper)12:21
imbrandonTonio_ / Riddell and would give us a place to colab on pre-release/must fix bugs over the next weeks as we are a sparse team all in diffrent timezones ;)12:21
Tonio_Riddell: yes launchpad is pretty nice during the dev cycle, but not very convenient to focus on the essential stuff just before the release12:21
tomaTonio_: isn't there a priority field?12:22
Tonio_the wikipage should link and invite to use launchpad, it should just be there to help defining the priorities12:22
RiddellTonio_: so please set up KubuntuEdgyCriticalBugs and we'll get cracking on them12:22
Tonio_toma: yes there is, but what is important is not always critical12:22
tomaTonio_: would be best to let launchpad generate the list12:22
Tonio_that klipper issue is the perfect example12:22
Tonio_it is not critical, since it doesn't break kubuntu, but we cannot think of releasing with this bug12:22
Tonio_Riddell: will do with the help of Hobbsee, for her ug status knowledge :)12:23
Tonio_Hobbsee: can I onsider your help to do that page tomorrow ?12:23
Riddellug status?12:23
=== Hobbsee gets off the phone with work again
imbrandonheh12:23
Hobbseesay what?  :P12:23
Tonio_Riddell: bug status12:23
HobbseeRiddell: yes, i have a very high ug status :P12:23
=== Hobbsee ugs Riddell
imbrandon;)12:24
Riddell:)12:24
Riddellright, universe freeze12:24
Tonio_rah !! Hobbsee, I'm sure you understood, so that's fine to me :)12:24
imbrandon28th ?12:24
Riddellonly 2.5 weeks to go12:24
tomahmm, anyone wants to do a second try at getting digikam(.*)-docs in?12:25
=== Hobbsee hugs Tonio_. i did.
RiddellI can't think of any important packages that need to be got in, but a revu triage would be nice12:25
Riddelltoma: what happened with it?12:25
Hobbseetoma: if the licence stuff is still wrong, you wont...12:25
imbrandonwe need to have some of use k guys ( and gals ) go though revu on revu day12:25
Riddelloh, no FDL text12:25
HobbseeRiddell: that's what they plan to do today.  or this day a month ago, take your pick.  :P12:25
tomaallee: you released a new version, right?12:26
Hobbseeimbrandon: revu day today, check MOTU mailing list12:26
imbrandonHobbsee, its still the 7th for me ;)12:26
tomaafaik a sync with debian should solve it12:26
HobbseeTonio_: add the wiki link to the topic too12:26
Tonio_Hobbsee: yes, sure12:26
Riddelltoma: great, that sounds easy then12:26
Hobbseeimbrandon: catch up with the times.12:26
imbrandonHobbsee, -motu topic says the 8th12:27
imbrandonso i guess we get 2 revu days12:27
Hobbseeimbrandon: indeed.  in my timezone, it is the 8th12:27
RiddellHobbsee: your agenda item12:27
imbrandonahh12:27
Hobbseewha?12:27
HobbseeUniverse freeze on the 26th or so. Make sure all updated versions are in by then. If they're not, then you'll need to file freeze exception requests, etc.12:27
=== allee tries to remember ...
tomaapoligies excepted ;-)12:28
tomaaccepted12:28
Hobbseeas a FYI12:28
RiddellHobbsee: "Any other random agenda points from Hobbsee. "12:28
Hobbseewhile i have the floor12:28
Hobbsee-1 on the power button calls the logout button, idea12:28
imbrandonwhy ?12:28
RiddellHobbsee: why?12:28
Hobbseebut we should make sure that kde gets saved - maybe call logout kde, then shut down?12:28
gnomefreakkind of liked that idea12:28
alleeyes, FDL stuff is fixed upstream  -0.8.2-r1.tar.gz12:28
Hobbseewhat happens when you try to use the shutdown button to shut down the computer, ie when i'ts hardlocked?12:29
tomaallee: k12:29
imbrandonHobbsee, you hold the button 4 seconds and the hardware takes care of it12:29
RiddellHobbsee: on most computers you hold it down for 5 seconds and it shuts down12:29
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HobbseeRiddell: so that wouldnt change?12:29
imbrandonyea its part of the ATX spec12:29
Hobbseeoh right12:29
imbrandonHobbsee, no thats hardware 12:29
RiddellHobbsee: no12:29
Hobbsee(how inconvenient is the power button to hit anyway?)12:29
Hobbseeanyway, point.12:30
Tonio_Hobbsee: ati standard12:30
alleetoma: and -r1 pkgs are in sid12:30
imbrandonTonio_, atx ;)12:30
tomaallee: are you going to try a new merge into edgy?12:30
Hobbseehavent thought of any random agenda points yet, but for all the MOTU's, there's a REVU day on the 8th.  lets attack those packages, some of them have been there for ages.12:30
Tonio_imbrandon: hu, OMG I said ati, sorry :)12:30
imbrandonhehe12:30
Tonio_imbrandon: should change my graphic card12:30
RiddellI'll try and do some REVUing tomorrow12:31
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Tonio_so yes Hobbsee every computer that is less that 5 to 6 years handles this12:31
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=== foo joins to eye Hawkwind
HawkwindI do have a suggestion to make once all the agenda points are covered that wasn't on the agenda12:31
Hobbseecool12:31
Tonio_Riddell: ping me eventually, I can spend time on this too12:31
alleetoma: no.  I'm still covered with work to do any OSS stuff  (beside FAI for dapper, that I need for work right now ;)12:31
Hobbseenothing else, currently12:31
Riddell"Translations are currently broken", not sure who's agenda item that is but it should go on Tonio_'s bugs page12:31
=== Hobbsee didnt have any great bursts of brilliance overnight
Riddellkde.pot isn't being handled right somewhere12:32
Tonio_Riddell: that my item12:32
tomaRiddell: are there translations for kde 3.5.4 for dapper available?12:32
Riddelltoma: no12:32
Tonio_Riddell: I already looked at that and that's not kubunt specific bug12:32
Riddelltoma: well, kde-i18n packages should be on kubuntu.org12:32
Tonio_that exactly the same issue we had during the dapper dev cycle...12:32
Tonio_only half of the translation appears12:32
RiddellTonio_: it's the stock strings from kde.pot that are the problem, I'll look into it12:33
Tonio_Riddell: shouldn't we ping pitty instead ?12:33
Tonio_Riddell: okay12:33
RiddellTonio_: might be my fault, might be rosetta's fault or might be pitti's fault, I don't know yet12:33
Riddellprobably mine :)12:33
=== Tonio_ notes Riddell is a modest person :)
Riddellautoscroll in konqueror12:33
tomaRiddell: did you talk to rosetta people about the kde translators concerns?12:33
Riddelltoma: no, I need to do that too12:34
Tonio_Riddell: yes that's another of my items12:34
tomaRiddell: ok, np12:34
Riddelltoma: I'll do that tomorrow12:34
tomagreat12:34
Tonio_toma and I have patched konqueror to have that function rocking as much as in firefox12:34
Tonio_the patch in now in kdelibs, which is a good point12:34
RiddellTonio_: I'm not a fan of autoscroll mostly because I like middle click to paste URL12:34
Tonio_firefox provides this function by default12:34
HobbseeRiddell: Jucato: has an agenda item, too12:34
Riddelland the konqueror implementation has bugs like pasting into textareas doesn'twork12:34
Tonio_Riddell: middle click to paste still works if you middle click on the tab bar12:35
tomayes, that is my problem with it as well12:35
Tonio_sounds like a good compromise to me12:35
tomanot for the textarea's12:35
tomaah, compromise12:35
seaLnethats much harder and requires moving mouse12:35
Tonio_the point is that a very few kubuntu users are using konqueror in the first place because they prefer the features of firefox12:35
Hobbseesorry, what cna you still paste with this scenerio?12:36
Tonio_we should focus on making konqueror working the way Joe prefers12:36
Tonio_;)12:36
HobbseeTonio_: or just add/replace it with firefox.  *ducks*12:36
=== Jucato wonders about middle-clicking on tabs to close
Tonio_Riddell: there is no pb in pasting urls if you middle click on the tab bar, which sounds logic and makes sense to me12:36
alleeTonio_: noone here misses it (but we all have scroll wheels)12:36
RiddellTonio_: it's still broken with pasteing in textareas, which is a killer for me12:36
imbrandonmiddle clicking the tab bar in ff closes the tab12:37
Tonio_Riddell: hum...... let me test12:37
Riddellmiddle click to close sounds evil12:37
tomaTonio_: that is the reason i turned it off too12:37
Jucatoheh12:37
Riddellespecially if you're used to pasting URLs12:37
imbrandonRiddell, it is, very evil12:37
Tonio_Riddell: pasting in textareas works here12:37
Tonio_middle click pastes correctly12:38
tomaTonio_: not with middle mouse button, from the konsole or example12:38
Tonio_toma: just done it and it is okay12:38
=== Jucato notes that it works here too
tomahmff12:38
Riddellhow do I turn on scroll agian?12:38
=== Hobbsee hugs middle-click-to-close in firefox
HobbseeRiddell: middle click?12:38
tomaif that works, i dont have a problem with it12:39
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pittihi12:39
imbrandonlo pitti12:39
Tonio_Riddell: konq settings, web management blabla and uncheck "use middle click to........"12:39
cbx33pitti, hi12:39
Tonio_not sure of the english but it's like that12:39
Jucatoin Web Behaviour, uncheck "Middle click opens URL in selection"12:39
Riddellnope, definately still broken for textareas for me12:39
=== Hobbsee adds to the mental agenda in her head. i have a question for imbrandon.
Riddellit does paste, but it also scrolls too12:40
Tonio_Riddell: humf...12:40
Tonio_Riddell: ah yes I can see this too12:40
imbrandonHobbsee, PM me or i'll forget12:40
RiddellTonio_: so fix this and I'll consider it :)12:40
Tonio_Riddell: hehe12:40
tomaRiddell: tsss12:40
fabo:)12:40
Riddellok, any other items12:40
Tonio_toma: ready to help again on that point ?12:40
HobbseeRiddell: that means it's hard to paste when the page is scrolling randomly?  :P12:40
=== toma ducks
HobbseeRiddell: sure, a status update on imbrandon's plans for an integrated firefox12:41
Tonio_toma: I don't feel capable to do this on my own :)12:41
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tomaTonio_: same here ;-)12:41
tomaTonio_: but we can have a look, but not very soon ;-(12:41
Tonio_Riddell: ready to help ? :)12:41
imbrandonHobbsee, i havent touched it yet, i was / am waiting on iwj to "finish"12:41
Hobbseeimbrandon: ah okay12:41
=== Hobbsee points at Hawkwind
Riddellyes, Hawkwind had an item12:42
JucatoHawkwind?12:42
Riddellguess he fell asleep12:42
Riddellany other items?12:42
Jucato:)12:42
imbrandonRiddell, whats for breakfast ? j/k12:43
HawkwindI'm here now12:43
Jucatoit was about the 10th anniversary of KDE12:43
HobbseeRiddell: if not, Jucato can step in and do it12:43
Hobbseemmm...breakfast12:43
Jucatooh there he is12:43
HawkwindSince this year is the 10th anniversary of KDE....can we do something special within Edgy to commemorate it ?12:43
tomagood idea12:43
RiddellKDE 4 packages aren't special enough?12:43
HawkwindCould be something graphical or most anything.  Just think it would be a neat idea to let it be known to the user how long it's been around12:43
imbrandonhehe12:43
HobbseeRiddell: well....12:43
RiddellHawkwind: more concrete ideas would be useful12:44
ttreadone of the example docs - or a little movie...12:44
RiddellI agree something would be cool, but I don't know what12:44
tomacan we add a special desktop for that day12:44
Riddelltoma: nice12:44
Hobbseehow close are we for cd space, by the way?  on a related note?12:44
Riddellttread: nice but example-docs already takes up too much space12:45
HawkwindRiddell: I was thinking of some kind of graphic during start up or something.  Or maybe a 10th anniversary screen when konqueror starts12:45
kwwiiping kwwii to ask about the graphics12:45
RiddellHobbsee: too close12:45
Tonio_Riddell: hum, hard to do for people using their own wallpaper :)12:45
ttreadok12:45
imbrandonHobbsee, last i checked without removing anything we had about 38mb free12:45
HobbseeRiddell: well, yeah, but how much do we have?12:45
Hobbseethat will cut out most videos12:45
Hobbseeright12:45
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sfllaw@schedule Montreal12:45
UbugtuSchedule for America/Montreal: Current meeting: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 08:00: Community Council12:45
Riddellimbrandon: less on other arches12:45
sfllaw@schedule America/Montreal12:45
UbugtuSchedule for America/Montreal: Current meeting: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 08:00: Community Council12:45
Riddellhi sfllaw, welcome to the kubuntu meeting12:45
imbrandonRiddell, true i only checked i38612:45
JucatoI guess graphics would be our only option then?12:45
HawkwindHah12:45
Hobbseesfllaw: we're in a meeting :P12:45
Riddellkwwii: do you know if there's any plans for 10th anniversary graphics?12:46
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tomaHobbsee: well if you have video's, we can add a main menu item on all apps to point to that on that day12:47
imbrandoni think a nice graphic in the "about" box in the edgy release would be simple and small and still seen12:47
sfllawSorry.12:47
imbrandonRiddell, ^12:47
kwwiiRiddell: nope, until now, there is none12:47
mdzRiddell: please wrap up within the next 10m so we can get started with the dev meeting12:47
Riddellmdz: we're about there12:47
Hawkwindimbrandon: +1 on that idea.  It doesn't have to be big at all12:48
Hobbseemdz: we're taking over your dev meeting, didnt you know?  :P12:48
Hobbseetoma: right, yeah.  i dont12:48
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Riddellsomeone could contact basse for a konqi graphic/video12:48
sivangtopic12:48
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kwwiiRiddell: that is a very good idea12:49
kwwiiin fact, I think that someone has already done that12:49
kwwiitorsten12:49
Riddellclever tackat12:49
kwwiinow that you mention it :-)12:49
Jucatoone of the older Konqi videos?12:49
kwwiino, to make a new one12:49
Jucatoah12:49
RiddellI'll talk to tackat and see where that is12:49
imbrandonok ....... moving on ? ( sorry i'm hungery for food )12:50
Riddellimbrandon: I'm done12:50
imbrandonhehe12:50
Riddellany other business?12:50
=== toma too
=== Jucato needs sleep...
Riddellthanks for coming all12:50
HobbseeJucato: heh, i'll bet12:50
tomanext meeting?12:50
Hobbseenext meeting time?12:50
Hobbseeit's not really fair on Jucato having a 5am meeting.12:50
Hobbseeand i'm pretty useless, even at 7am12:51
Jucatoheh it's ok. I'll get used to it :)12:51
claydohheck Im useless and its 7 PM :)12:51
Jucatoheh12:51
tomai'm fine on friday at 11pm ;-)12:51
kwwiisee most of you later...see those in the developer meeting in a few minutes12:51
=== Hobbsee pokes Riddell to see if he saw the last bit
Riddellyep, suggestions of meeting times welcome12:52
tomanite all12:53
Tonio_toma: nite ;)12:53
seaLnewhat about a early morning GMT meeting?12:53
Tonio_toma: just a second plz :)12:53
Tonio_argh12:53
imbrandonearly gmt time is fine by me, we wont get everyone every meeting ;)12:53
imbrandonwe should rotate12:54
Hobbseelets discuss it in #kubuntu-devel but perhaps it's more of an issue nwo than it was12:54
imbrandonsweet , carry any spillover to #kubuntu-devel /me is afk to get some food 12:54
Hobbseewe need to make sure we have quroum, at least12:54
=== Hobbsee wonders when the KCC renewal comes up.
=== claydoh leaves to start cooking late dinner...
kwwiihehe, at least I am early for the next meeting :-)12:55
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kwwiihi fschoep12:55
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dholbachhi seb128, hi fschoep12:55
fschoepHi kwwii, everyone12:55
seb128hey dholbach12:55
fschoepHi dholbach12:55
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jonohowdy doody12:57
mdzjono: evening12:57
Hobbseehey all12:57
jonohey mdz :)12:57
jonohey Hobbsee 12:57
FujitsuMorning, jono.12:57
Hobbseehi jono.  you didnt make it to kubuntu meeting?12:57
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jonohey Fujitsu 12:58
jonoHobbsee, yeah I was out tonight12:58
Hobbseejono: ah okay.  shame.  you could do what i did - come in over half way thru or something :P12:58
jonoHobbsee, I only just got in :)12:58
jonoHobbsee, good meeting ?12:58
=== pitti waves to mdz
Hobbseejono: didnt make most of it, and the part i was there for i wasnt terribly awake :P12:59
jonohehe12:59
=== Hobbsee waves to pitti
mdzmissing infinity, iwj and BenC12:59
mvohello12:59
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council
mdzgood evening, folks01:00
sfllawEvening.01:00
sfllawHow was Black Rock?01:00
pittigood evening everyone01:00
mdzmy holidays were excellent, but I'm back in full-on work mode now01:00
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mdzwe have a lot of ground to cover, with feature freeze upon us01:00
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mdzso we'll dive right in01:01
mdzinfinity: welcome01:01
mdzpitti: would you start us off?01:01
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iwjHi.  Sorry I'm a bit late ...01:01
pittisure01:02
mdziwj: we're just getting started01:02
pittiDone:01:02
pitti * started to catch up with security updates after the two weeks break: PHP, bind, kernel (just coordination), mailman, libxfont/X.org, imagemagick, openssl, MySQL 01:02
pitti * apport: implemented bug pattern matching backend and GUI (so that apport-gtk directs you to an already existing bug rather than asking you to file a new one)01:02
pitti * SoC reviews and reports01:02
pitti * merged cupsys and updated to 1.2.3; not yet uploaded since I have to fix a regression01:02
pittiTodo:01:02
pitti * more security updates (arrgh)01:02
pitti * catch up on my overflowing bugs inbox01:02
pitti * finish cups 1.2.3 and upload01:02
pitti * fix high-profile langpack-o-matic bug and prepare new packages (BLOCKED: *-updates embargo; mdz?)01:02
pitti * ensure that php and mysql get new upstream versions (infinity or I)01:02
pitti * finish gnutls12->13 transition01:02
pitti * start bug fixing01:02
pittispec status:01:02
pitti * apt-get-debug-symbols (Deployment): distro side is ready, needs buildd infrastructure work to get .ddebs to people.u.c (to be implemented next week with infinity)01:02
mdzpitti: how much remains in the queue for security?01:02
pitti * automated-problem-reports (Implemented): does not yet catch all corner cases, this requires an updated kernel implementation which will (most likely) be deferred to Edgy+1; but basic functionality is working apart from some bugs01:02
pitti * gcc-ssp (Implemented): Distro side changes are implemented for a long time; still need to check current build coverage, and perhaps do no-change uploads to important packages01:02
pitti * auto-unmount-notifications (Implemented): works a bit too good (also for readonly devices), but I consider that a bug01:02
=== pitti is happy to be the first one the first time
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pittimdz: the kernel still needs to be pushed out, some embargoed stuff that is lifted next week, and about 5 public issues01:03
pittimdz: (I don't have the exact number in my head, I just work through them case by case)01:03
mdzpitti: looks like you are in good shape for feature freeze, congrats01:03
pittimdz: will you say some words about the *-update embargo?01:03
pittimdz: thanks :)01:03
mdzwe're in the process of revising and formalizing the process for updates to stable releases01:04
pittimdz: do infinity and I have your blessing to implement the .ddeb retrieval later?01:04
mdzuntil that work is finished, only security fixes are permitted01:04
pittimdz: I hope it won't be too heavy for langpack updates ;)01:04
mdzqueue any -updates uploads locally until then01:04
pittibut I totally agree that we should revise the policy01:04
pittiwe should also do a dry run of that proposed 'block bad versions with a fake version on security.u.c' approach01:05
mdzI'm going to focus on prevention, though we'll think through some contingency plans01:05
mdzKISS will apply though01:05
mdzpitti: thank you01:06
mdzMithrandir: next?01:06
Mithrandirlive-cd-write-as-you-go: Needs a fair bit of infrastructure before it can happen, namely an udflinux similar to isolinux.01:06
Mithrandirmisc: X bugfixes.  Rodarvus and I seem to have divided the workload so he gets the server and drivers, I get the apps and libs.  Also played a fair bit with Xen.  Casper bugfixes.  Helped Colin a bit with sane-installer-keyboard (but he's done most of the implementation, by far)01:06
Mithrandirnext week: bug triage, Knot 3 release in a week.01:06
Mithrandirl-c-w-a-y-g is therefore deferred01:06
mdzMithrandir: how did knot 2 go?01:06
Mithrandirdecent; some last-minute changes which I in retrospect wish I'd asked to postpone, but it wasn't too painful.01:07
mdzMithrandir: how about the testing in the certification lab?01:07
mdzis that working out?01:08
Mithrandiryeah, slowly.01:08
mdzhow are they reporting their results?01:08
Mithrandiras in, getting there.01:08
Mithrandirthe wiki, as usual.01:08
Mithrandirat least, that's been the goal.  I need to be better at cleaning the grid when we build a new iso01:08
mdzadd it to the checklist01:09
Mithrandiralso, we uncovered some brokenness in Launchpad, but I think that's fixed now01:09
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Mithrandirinfinity: ^^?01:09
infinityMithrandir: The frozen breakage?  Not sure if those fixes have been rolled out, I'll chase that up before we try to freeze again.01:09
mdzplease subscribe me to the relevant bugs if they're causing release blockage01:10
Mithrandirinfinity: yeah, that's what I was thinking about.  Basically, FROZEN doesn't work.  And I can't freeze the distro.01:10
Mithrandirboth being kinda problematic if I'm going to drive the release.01:10
mdzMithrandir: did you have that UI review with mpt regarding live-cd-sessions?01:10
Mithrandirmdz: I thought I sent that mail, but I never chased it up, so either he never got it or forgot.  I'll do that even though we're post-FF.01:11
mdzgive him some time to think on it, it'll be good to have on hand when we resume that01:11
mdzthanks Mithrandir01:12
mdzinfinity: next01:12
infinityDone:01:12
infinity * debian-maintainer-field: Maintainer field mangling is in the archive and active on the buildds, and working as advertised.01:12
infinity * live-cd-stacked-filesystems: Just recieved word that elmo has given me the kernel support I need on the buildds, so will roll this out in production after I've slept today.01:12
infinity * larger-livefs: Still needs creation of a seed for live-dvd, but when live-cd-stacked-filesystems is rolled out, this one basically takes care of itself.01:12
infinity * A fair amount of buildd wrangling this week, unsnaring the usual "new GNOME breakage", dealing with chroots not updating properly, etc.01:12
infinity * General weekly tasks (archive maintenance, tracking soyuz bugs and misfeatures, etc)01:12
infinityTodo:01:12
infinity * New upstream releases of PHP, MySQL, and Samba, all done in Debian, just need to get UVFs and quickly merge/sync them.01:12
infinity * Make sure live-cd-stacked-filesystems/larger-livefs actually work in production.01:12
infinity * Attack bug lists and FTBFS lists.01:12
=== infinity subscribed mdz to the FROZEN bug.
mdz(thanks)01:12
mdzMithrandir: have you been able to test your portion of live-cd-stacked-filesystems at all, or is that blocked on having them built on the buildds?01:13
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Mithrandirmdz: I have tested it with locally built images.01:13
pittiinfinity: (for the record, we do have the php UVF ER)01:14
pittiinfinity: ... approval)01:14
mdzinfinity: go ahead and create the dvd seed; it should have all language-{support,pack} for all languages01:14
infinitypitti: Yeah, I know, but we don't for the other two, and I'm a lazy typist. :)01:14
Mithrandirmdz: I haven't tested it with official images, naturally, since we don't have them yet.01:14
mdzMithrandir: right, thanks01:14
seb128infinity: what causes the "new GNOME breakage"? The stricts Depends between arch all and any packages?01:14
mdzinfinity: check with Kamion if you're in doubt about the germination01:15
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pittiinfinity: will the dvd seed be a superset of the CD seed, or an independent copy?01:15
infinityseb128: Yeah, when arches get a bit out of sync, the world explodes and I get to unsnag it all by hand.  It's something I'm generally used to.  When new GNOME hits, I tend to get to dedicate a couple of days to making it happy everywhere.01:15
Kamionthe appropriate runes are in the supported seed01:15
Kamionpitti: live-dvd would inherit from live, technically01:15
mdzpitti: it will be an independent seed, but stacked on top of the existing live image01:15
pittiKamion: that's good01:15
pittiso no duplication AFAIUI01:16
mdzright01:16
seb128infinity: would delay upload between libs and app make the job easier for you?01:16
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infinityseb128: It could help a bit, but unless you want to stagger your uploads by days, something will always break.  *shrug*01:16
seb128k01:16
seb128so not a lot we can do for you :/01:16
infinityseb128: To be honest, I prefer to see you and Daniel just upload as much as you can and get back to bugfixing while I do my job.01:17
mdzinfinity: ok, thanks01:17
=== dholbach hugs infinity
mdzdholbach: next01:17
seb128ok, fine with me01:17
infinityseb128: Each to their strengths. :)01:17
dholbachDone:01:17
dholbach    * GNOME 2.1601:17
dholbach    * Bugs01:17
dholbach    * Artwork uploads and work on Art-Builder01:17
dholbachTodo:01:17
dholbach    * more Bug Triage01:17
=== seb128 hugs infinity too
dholbach    * more Art-Builder01:17
dholbach    * REVU DAY tomorrow!01:17
dholbach    * get new gnome-pilot in, get missing telepathy packages in before UniverseFreeze01:17
dholbach    * start on apt-get.org import01:17
dholbach01:17
mdzGNOME 2.16.0 is complete?01:17
sfllawYay!01:17
=== mvo hugs dholbach
dholbachyes01:18
seb128mdz: yep01:18
=== mvo hugs seb128
=== seb128 is going to blog about that ;)
=== seb128 hugs mvo back
mdzexcellent, seb128/dholbach01:18
dholbachgracias :-)01:18
seb128:01:18
seb128:)01:18
mdzdholbach: how is art-builder going?  that's the arrangement we discussed in wiesbaden?01:18
=== pitti hugs the fabulous desktop team
dholbachmdz: exactly - it's checking out and building already, but not very clever yet (it doesn't do changes to buildsystems, etc)01:19
pittiSeb'128 packages a day'astien01:19
dholbachmdz: i didn't put too much time in it yet01:19
dholbachpitti: ah ah :-P01:19
mdzdholbach: ok, send me an email when there's something to see; I'd like to look at it01:19
dholbachmdz: sure01:20
mdzthanks dholbach01:20
mdzkwwii: next01:20
seb128pitti: :)01:20
kwwiiDid the Hardware Database interface pics, selected icons, edited a few and made a couple of new ones.01:20
kwwiiFinished almost all (all currently used as far as I can tell) of the power manager icons (one or two still need to be done)01:20
kwwiiPlayed with a two ideas for both versions of the usplash01:20
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kwwiiWorked on evolving the theme to the blue-purple variant01:21
kwwiiTweaking KDM and Ksplash theme01:21
kwwiiTODO:01:21
kwwiiUSPLASH - top of the list...following questions; which version will be used? When will testing be done? (how in the hell do I get it to work on my eMac?) :-)01:21
kwwiiGot Amarok running again on my machine, finishing up the work on the amarok theme01:21
kwwiiRelease announcement pic01:21
kwwiipics for wiki.kubuntu.org header01:21
kwwiiFinish the tweaking of the "about" pages, make that match with the metabar pics01:21
kwwiiChange all pics and color schemes to the blue-purple theme by knot301:21
kwwiithe usplash is the biggest issue for me01:21
fschoep+101:21
kwwiifschoep: ;-)01:21
=== pitti really hopes that usplash will work on amd64 soon
fschoepBut at least there's something happening on the art ML now01:21
mdzkwwii: of the 7 components we discussed (usplash, wallpaper, window decorations, kdm login, ksplash, app start pages, icons), how much of that has landed in edgy for feature freeze?01:22
fschoepSeveas is doing some work there01:22
SeveasMy work on usplash is done01:22
Seveasmjg59 is doing the hard work01:22
kwwiimdz: all of it01:22
Riddellexcept usplash01:22
fschoepSeveas: OK, good to hear - glad you made it01:22
kwwiimdz: it is all tweaking and bug fixing from here on out01:22
kwwiiand the usplash01:22
kwwiithanks Riddell01:22
kwwiithat is why the usplash is on top of the lsit01:23
kwwiilist01:23
kwwiithe new usplash stuff came out last night...the big question is will that version be used?01:23
mdzkwwii: what's blocking it?  testing on your machine?01:23
kwwiiie...how much time should be put into making the new version01:23
mdzmy two issues with it were the virtual console corruption and hibernation breakage.01:23
Kamionkwwii: it'll be used, unless it turns out to be so buggy it's easier to revert than fix01:23
kwwiimdz: although I cannot test it on my machine, I have some basic stuff done already01:23
mdzthe latter was apparently a kernel bug, and mjg59 believes the former fixed01:24
kwwiiI cannot get it to run on either of my ppc machines01:24
mdzmjg59: how confident are you about it today?01:24
mjg59Mm?01:24
KamionI was thinking of poking at it on powerpc tomorrow01:24
mjg59Oh, the console corruption?01:24
mjg59That's sorted01:24
mdzmjg59: shiny usplash01:24
mdzin general01:24
mjg59Yeah01:24
mdzfor edgy feature freeze01:24
KamionI just haven't had time before FF01:24
mjg59Works now01:24
mdzare you aware of the amd64 issue pitti mentioned?01:24
mjg59The PPC stuff is buggy but easily fixed01:24
pittiare we definitively committed to using the hi-res usplash for edgy?01:24
mdzpitti: that's what we're trying to determine01:24
mjg59I'm running it on amd64 right this second01:25
kwwiiI made a usplash for the old version too, to if we have to revert, I am ready01:25
pittiATM it works neither on my powerpc nor on my amd6401:25
mdzthis is decision time01:25
kwwiibut still, everything else is done to some extent, the usplash is still the test theme01:25
KamionI don't expect getting it to work on powerpc would take much effort01:25
pittimjg59: oh, right, it was nvidia specific, right?01:25
mdzkwwii: ok, no need to wait then; land the high-res stuff01:25
mjg59There may be issues on specific hardware, but in general it's fine01:25
KamionI made it work on powerpc initially way back when, and it was only a few hours' work01:25
seb128my desktop doesn't boot with the new usplash01:25
mdzseb128: filed a bug?01:25
kwwiimdz: cool, will do 01:25
mjg59seb128: Is that new as in generally, or new as in since this morning?01:25
seb128mdz: not yet 01:26
Seveasseb128, 'new usplash' is rather undescriptive, 4 versions landed in the past 2 days, each fixing several bugs01:26
KamionSeveas: 5 :)01:26
Seveasheh01:26
sivanghi all01:26
kwwiiit would be really cool to get it working on ppc well so that I can test what I am making01:26
sivangsorry for being late.01:26
mjg59seb128: I believe those too be fixed01:26
seb128mjg59: new from this week, but services-admin basically emptied my /etc/rc[0-6] .d and I only restored a part of it so I want to reinstall before opening a bug01:26
mdzseb128: ok, please confirm this week (with a live CD if that's easiest)01:27
mjg59At the moment I'm trying to work out why a piece of previously working hardware is now failing to (as far as I can tell) even execute the Linux wakeup code01:27
seb128I get the splash followed by a black screen instead of gdm01:27
mjg59seb128: Yes, that should be fixed01:27
seb128mdz: yeah, will do tomorrow01:27
mdzkwwii: Kamion will have a try at it when he gets a chance01:28
seb128mjg59: will try after meeting with the current version to make sure01:28
mdzkwwii: if possible try on another machine01:28
seb128I might not have rebooted since the update01:28
mdzkwwii: or have Riddell email you photos :-)01:28
kwwii:-)01:28
mdzkwwii: thanks01:28
mdzfschoep: next01:28
fschoepDone:01:28
fschoep * theme-teams: collect final versions of artwork01:28
fschoep * community artwork: package best available artwork, mad props to Daniel Holbach on this one as well01:28
fschoep * community artwork: contact sabdfl on progress and direction01:28
fschoep * sound-themes: package best available sounds01:28
fschoep * gtk-theme: minor tweaks01:28
fschoep * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: finalized iconprio stuff, props to Daniel again for updating the website, contacted sabdfl along the  way01:28
fschoep * ubuntu-art-complete-highcon-icons: introduced Henrik to tienne Bersace, looks like this is going to go well01:28
fschoepOngoing:01:28
fschoep * art-polish-human-gtk-theme: decide on color tweaks based on artwork direction01:28
fschoep * community-artwork: polish and rework parts to sabdfl's liking, fix outstanding bugs01:28
fschoep * sound-themes: tweaking and polishing of sounds01:28
fschoep * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: contact Dave to start work after sabdfl approves the scheduled list of work01:28
fschoepBlocked:01:28
fschoep * theme-teams: there seems to be no Art Council in place, who will approve theme team work for inclusion?01:28
fschoep * usplash-artwork: running to stand still - has the target stopped moving yet?01:29
iwjfschoep: I saw some mails or questions from my week off about the firefox human theme; did you get the help you needed ?01:29
mdzfschoep: which components have landed in edgy today?01:29
mdziwj: my firefox looks humanish01:29
iwjmdz: Mine too :-).01:30
fschoepiwj: Not sure what you mean?01:30
dholbachmdz: gdm, sounds, session, wallpapers, gtk theme01:30
fschoepdarn01:30
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
fschoepthank dholbach 01:30
iwjfschoep: Well, if you don't have anything outstanding then that's fine by me :-4~).01:30
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kwwiigood to hear that fschoep and myself are both loosing sleep over the usplash :-)01:30
iwjOops, my mouth exploded.01:30
fschoepiwj: I wondered though01:30
mdzdholbach: and what remains to be done?01:30
fschoepiwj: Is the Human theme now default for Edgy?01:30
fschoepmdz: usplash01:30
fschoepmdz: human icons, GTK color tweaks01:30
mdzfschoep: are there candidates for usplash?01:31
fschoepmdz: some bland and ugly ones01:31
fschoepbased on 16 color 640x400 restrictions01:31
mdznothing we can roll out?01:31
iwjfschoep: Yes; I put that change into the main bzr so you'll have picked it up and as mdz says default setups get it now.01:31
fschoepmdz: we can roll something out, sure but it will hardly be better and less colorful than the test card01:31
mdzfschoep: please get a high-res one together; if nothing else we can use the standard logo and it will look better than what we have01:31
Seveas(there is a test 1024x768 + 800x600 theme in the usplash source using many of the new shiny features)01:32
fschoepmdz: sabdfl kind of disgrees there01:32
mdzfschoep: today is the deadline01:32
fschoepmdz: I think -01:32
fschoepmdz: well01:32
Keybukremember that the usplash artwork should go in the themes packages01:32
Keybuknot in the usplash package01:32
fschoepmdz: I need some input on Mark first01:32
mdzfschoep: he's travelling and we cannot block on him01:33
SeveasKeybuk, i know -- the theme won't even build in-tree01:33
SeveasThat's the reason I split off usplash-dev01:33
kwwiifschoep: I should discuss the usplash with you...from the wishes for the dapper cycle and the new 256 color, I get we could do something nice01:33
kwwiis/get/bet01:33
mdzfschoep: it's important to get this in; we can still iterate on it but need a starting point now01:33
fschoepmdz: sure, I think01:33
fschoepmdz: like, now?01:34
mdzfschoep: tomorrow01:34
fschoepmdz: OK, I'll get something in01:34
mdzfschoep: thanks; let me know if you run into trouble01:34
fschoepmdz: OK01:34
mdzKamion: next01:34
fschoepuh01:35
fschoepCan I please get some input on the Art Council question?01:35
Kamion(waiting)01:35
fschoepIs there going to be one soon?01:35
fschoepDoes anyone remotely know what the AC is going to be?01:35
mdzfschoep: you make the call on the themes to include01:35
fschoepmdz: OK01:36
mdzthe release can't block on organizing a new team01:36
mdzKamion: go ahead01:36
KamionDone:01:36
Kamion  cdrom-based-dist-upgrades: Added upgrader to CD images, thanks to a patch from mvo.01:36
Kamion  no-more-devfs: Done.01:36
Kamion  livefs-access: Sound support theoretically in, but it appears to produce just beeps at best and it's hideous assembly code that I don't understand, so I've disabled this. However, we did manage to improve keyboard navigation on the accessibility menu and clean up some of the access options.01:36
Kamion  sane-installer-keyboard: Mostly done, apart from translations of layout and variant names, which will probably take a while to organise. We can test all the rest of it without that though. I'll push console-s01:36
mdzmvo: is c-b-d-u testable?01:36
Kamionetup up to minimal tomorrow morning once my upgrade path changes have built.01:36
Kamion  live-cd-stacked-filesystems: Wrote the ubiquity side of this, which will be needed once the filesystems appear in corruption.01:36
mvomdz: yes01:36
Kamion  misc: Reviewed and merged oem-config KDE patch from abattoir. Haven't tested it yet.01:36
KamionDeferred:01:36
Kamion  ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: I decided I wasn't going to get far enough with this before FF to be worth the time right now, so I've deferred it. Oh well.01:36
KamionTo do:01:36
Kamion  sane-installer-keyboard: I expect to spend much of next week sorting out loose ends here (with Tollef, if he's available).01:36
mdzmvo: does it require a dapper backport?01:36
Kamion  misc: Google Summer of Code final reports, and whatever else comes up. usplash powerpc debugging, as discussed.01:36
mdzI think I mailed about this, but don't remember your reply01:36
mvomdz: full support yes, if we are happy with documenting to run "sh /cdrom/cdromdistupgrade", then not01:37
mdzmvo: we'll want full support certainly01:37
mvofull support == hal based cd detection01:37
mdzmvo: I assume it's trivial reuse of the code we already had01:37
mvoyes01:37
mvothe patch should be easy (and the feature was done in a seperate bzr branch to make the backporting easy)01:38
mdzKamion: are you confident about sane-installer-keyboard?01:39
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Kamionmdz: yes, reasonably. Upstream says it still has trouble with non-PC-like keymaps but that's at worst confined to powerpc.01:39
MithrandirKamion: I'm happy to help out with s-i-k next week, yes.01:39
mdzogra_: landing enormous merges during the feature freeze meeting -> grr01:40
KamionAnd it's *so* much easier to hack than the old console framework.01:40
ogra_mdz, sorry 01:40
mdzKamion: ok, thanks01:40
mdzogra_: next01:40
ogra_* this-week:01:40
ogra_ - student-control-panel-completion - implemented by pete savage, waits for MIR review, spec still waiting for approval01:40
ogra_ - ltsp-login-and-session-handling - implemented, some cosmetic polish remains01:40
ogra_ - ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration - implemented, ready for knot 301:40
ogra_ - fully-automatic-swap-server (no info, deferred i guess :/ )01:40
ogra_ - plenty of small patches (g-p-m, gnome-session etc)01:40
ogra_* next-week:01:40
ogra_ - clean up ltsp after the merges, hunt the last bugs01:40
ogra_ - go through gnome-screensaver/gnome-power-manager buglist01:40
ogra_ - knot 301:40
ogra_ - flight to detroit ltsp meeting01:40
ogra_* other specs: 01:40
ogra_ - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs - talked to infinity, we want to meet after FF01:40
ogra_ - ltsp-convergence: (no progress, multi distro meeting sept. 14th-19th) according to sbalneav only 01:40
ogra_   two features (rdesktop and lp_server integration (the latter is on the buglist for edgy, needs some lines in 01:40
KamionI expect the installer may glitch a bit tomorrow, but it shouldn't be hard to fix; I've run complete installs with console-setup in hacked-up environments.01:40
ogra_   the initscript and testing)) and optional xdmcp support missing01:41
ogra_ - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: code merged from debian (untested yet)01:41
ogra_Kamion, fine with me ... 01:41
mdzogra_: rodarvus was working on f-a-s-s, no?  did he finish or pass on unfinished code?01:41
ogra_mdz, he said he was nearly done since two weeks before wiesbaden, but didnt want to show me the code01:42
mdzogra_: please send an email asking for it and CC me01:42
ogra_last edubuntu meeting (wed.) he said he'd start from scratch :/01:42
mdzogra_: your 3 edgy targets are all implemented, congrats01:43
pittiogra_: do you need any urgent MIRs?01:43
ogra_mdz, ok, even though i have a workaround implemented that creates the swapfiles01:43
mdzI don't think I'll make it to the ltsp meeting01:43
ogra_so it *can* be defarred and get done rigght in edgy+101:43
ogra_sad :/01:43
mdzogra_: yes, I saw that and assumed it was fully-automatic-swap-server landing01:43
ogra_roger waters will miss you :)01:43
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mdztell roger hello01:44
ogra_no its just a call through the ltspfs socket to create the swapfiles01:44
mdzogra_: you have booked your flight already, right?01:44
sivangogra_: going to see pink floyd ?? :-)01:44
ogra_sivang, only roger :)01:44
fschoepwish you were here01:44
ogra_mdz, yup01:44
ogra_all sorted01:44
mdzok, good01:44
Keybuksivang: and I thought they said they didn't need no education01:44
sivangKeybuk: HAHA01:45
mdzogra_: thanks01:45
ogra_i got a very nice mail from sbalneav today about the -convergence btw01:45
mdzhas anyone heard from BenC?  I sent an SMS01:45
ogra_i'll forward it to you01:45
Keybukmdz: only earlier today01:45
sivangogra_: is he using edubuntu ?01:45
mdzRiddell: next01:45
Riddelldone:01:45
Riddell    specs all implemented, except adept ones which are deferred01:45
Riddell    KDE oem-config testing, Colin has merged (thanks to abattoir)01:45
Riddell    kubuntu-hwdb: fixes, usability improvements and adding kwwii's artwork01:45
Riddell    langpacks-desktopfile-kde: working well, reuploaded everything to pick up .desktop file edits01:45
ogra_sivang, yes, ltsp.org completely emerged to ubuntu/edubuntu everywhere now01:45
Riddell    kubuntu-system-settings-usability: updated packages (thanks to sime for implementing), same for kubuntu-power-management (thanks to Lure and sebas for much work there)01:45
Riddell    kubuntu-accessibility: required casper changes in01:45
Riddell    KDE 4 pre-release packaged and in NEW01:45
Riddellblocked: ruby on ppc01:45
Riddelltodo:01:45
Riddell    REVU day01:45
Riddell    koffice 1.6 beta01:46
Riddell    merge KDE ubiquity with Colin's changes to GTK frontend01:46
Riddell    look at moving ubuntu-docs from svn to bzr01:46
Riddell    knot 301:46
dholbachRiddell: REVU DAY!01:46
mdzRiddell: what's wrong with ruby?01:46
=== dholbach hugs Riddell
KamionKDE 4 is targeted at universe, I assume?01:46
mdzKamion: yes01:46
Riddellmdz: doesn't compile on powerpc01:46
HobbseeRiddell: the list of crucial "must fix" bugs for edgy, too01:46
ogra_ugh, two KDE versions  ? 01:46
RiddellKamion: certainly01:46
KamionI'll look at it tomorrow, it's my archive day01:46
ogra_that will cause confusion01:46
Hobbseeogra_: dapper effectively runs with 3.  *shrugs*01:47
Riddellogra_: they're clearly marked as being for developers only01:47
mdzthere are alternate versions of all sorts of things in universe ;-)01:47
mdzRiddell: looking good, thanks01:47
mdzseb128: next01:47
seb128Done:01:47
seb128- GNOME 2.16.001:47
seb128- bug triage01:47
seb128- desktop bugs fixing01:47
seb128- caught up with a part of my mails lag01:47
seb128- SoC review01:47
seb128- gnome-system-tools bounty discussions and patches review01:47
seb128To Do:01:47
seb128- bug triage, bug triage, bug triage01:47
seb128- bugs fixing too01:47
mdzis SoC all wrapped up now?01:48
Kamionthe final reports are due tomorrow01:48
=== mvo needs to finish his review for soc
Kamionso yes01:48
mdzand after that we'll have met our obligations and have nothing more to do, right?01:48
ogra_my student cheated me and told me its wednesday :)01:48
Kamionright01:48
=== pitti just sent the final SoC report
=== seb128 too
=== PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
dokomdz: still have to cash in the money ...01:48
seb128just before the meeting01:48
mdzseb128: the g-s-t stuff is progressing, right?  not blocked on me anymore01:49
seb128mdz: yeah, a package with most of the patches has been uploaded yesterday01:49
mdzoh good. I'm a bit behind on -changes01:49
ogra_is it upstart friendly now ? 01:50
seb128ogra_: upstart makes no difference, does it?01:50
mdzseb128: how is the bug list?01:50
seb128ogra_: you still use update-rc.d no? 01:50
dokoseb128: are you aware of the gnomeVFS ABI changes?01:50
Keybuk"friendly" ?01:50
ogra_seb128, i thought it broke your upstart01:50
seb128mdz: we still have difficulties to keep it at a correct level01:51
mdzit shouldn't need any changes for this phase of upstart deployment, as i understand it01:51
pittidoko: tell us you're joking?01:51
seb128mdz: my bug mails lag was ~270 on friday01:51
seb128it's ~370 now01:51
Keybukogra_: it wiped his /etc/rc?.d (except for the READMEs) -- nothing to do with upstart01:51
mdzseb128: who is working on desktop triage other than you and dholbach?01:51
dokopitti: no, that's probably the reason why the OOo file selector doesn't work and OOo terminates01:51
seb128mdz: some contributors01:52
ogra_Keybuk, ah01:52
seb128some of they triage a lot and do a good job01:52
seb128("Vassilis Pandis" by example)01:52
Fujitsudoko, I noticed that yesterday :(01:52
seb128but still, lot of bugs coming :/01:52
seb128doko: the bonobo functions move?01:53
mdzmostly upstream?01:53
seb128mdz: yeah, we usually fix distro bugs fairly quickly (if they are an issue)01:53
seb12895% of the bugs is upstream material01:53
dokoseb128: yeah, maybe01:53
seb128doko: it's a discutable "ABI change" then ;)01:54
mdzseb128: are you and dholbach the only ones forwarding bugs upstream, or do others help as well?01:54
seb128doko: they moved some function from gnome-vfs to libbonobo which the linux linker handle fine01:54
dholbachmdz: some rare few are forwarded upstream by others01:54
seb128mdz: 2-3 contributors help on that too, but they don't do a lot of forwarding01:55
dokoseb128: no, maybe the reason is dicutable, but not, that an existing application stops working; yeah, I know, our gnome law ...01:55
dholbachmdz: but we have a list of "bugs to be forwarded upstream" now and I advertised it in some places01:55
mdzwe should encourage more folks to forward bugs upstream. is there a good howto?01:55
mdzdholbach: oh, good. using a tag or something?01:55
dholbachmdz: opening an empty upstream task is enough01:55
dholbachmdz: you can search for them01:55
seb128mdz: opening an upstream task not linked to any bug as discussed in wiesbaden01:55
dholbachmdz: for "you can get involved here" tasks we use 'ubuntulove' :-)01:55
mdzyou can search for that now?01:55
seb128looks like ;)01:56
mdzoh, look at that. wonderful01:56
mdzwe should advertise that more widely01:56
mdzneed to move on though01:56
mdzthanks seb12801:56
mdzsfllaw: next01:56
sfllawDone:01:56
sfllaw * Bug triage01:56
sfllaw * Looked into interns at Cgep John Abbott01:56
sfllaw * Various meetings01:56
sfllawTo do:01:56
sfllaw * Bug triage01:56
sfllaw * Prepare for UbuntuHugDay01:56
sfllaw * Work with seb128 and dholbach to get a desktop triaging team in place01:56
sfllaw * Get in touch with LaptopTestingTeam for installer testing01:56
mdzsfllaw: let's make bug forwarding a highlight of this next bug day01:57
sfllawSounds like a good plan.01:57
sfllawI'll construct some searches for that.01:57
mdzthanks01:57
mdzespecially desktop team bugs01:57
dholbachi added them to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bugs01:57
=== pitti wonders whether it's feasible to pythonize bug forwarding :)
mdzthat requires only registering in one upstream bug tracker to forward lots of bugs01:57
sfllawWell, either GNOME or KDE.01:58
mdzright01:58
sfllawRiddell: What are good search parameters for KDE bugs?01:58
Riddellsfllaw: how do you mean?01:58
dholbachkubuntu-team bugs01:58
mdzsfllaw: were you in the loop on the milestone testing in montreal? how did it go from your perspective?01:58
sladenpitti: single-page edit-describtion, edit-subject, click, go, Wizard for that in LP would be wonderful01:58
Riddellkubuntu-team is subscribed to the important stuff01:59
sfllawmdz: With the certification lab?  No, I think I missed the memo.01:59
sfllawmdz: I'll talk to them in person.01:59
mdzsladen: filing bugs is easy; it's establishing communication between upstream and the reporter which is hard01:59
mdzsfllaw: ok. the general plan is that they should test on the lab machines when we do a milestone01:59
HobbseeRiddell: sometimes.  often not a lot.01:59
sfllawmdz: If jbailey is cool with that, I'm happy.02:00
mdzfor hardware issues specifically as well as the usual functional test02:00
mdzsfllaw: jbailey and I agreed on this in mallorca, it's a done deal02:00
dokosfllaw: please could you document the when-do-i-close/reject-a-bug-report?02:00
mdzwe basically need to do it anyway to keep up certifications, and we can get a lot of general testing along the way for free02:00
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mdzsfllaw: ok, thanks02:01
mdzzul: next?02:01
zulDone:02:01
zul   * kernel security patches02:01
zul   * kernel security testing02:01
zul   * kernel bug triaging02:01
zul   * new xen-tools fixing02:01
zul   * new xen snapshot02:01
zulTo-Do:02:02
zul   xen-restricted moduels02:02
zul   more drivers for the xen kernel02:02
zul   xen rcs control02:02
mdzzul: is there a howto for how to try out xen?02:02
zul   xen bug fixing02:02
zulyes its on the wiki02:02
Mithrandirzul: do you want my x-r-m stuff or do you have something mostly-working already?02:02
mdzzul: I suggest highlighting it in this week's UWN to get people interested02:02
zulMithrandir: can you send me your xrm stuff im trying to get the new snapshot working again02:03
zulmdz: sure02:03
mdzzul: cool, thanks02:03
mdzmvo: next02:03
mvoDid:02:03
mvo- Implemented CDRom support in dist-upgrader and put it onto the CD02:03
mvo- dist-upgrader testing02:03
mvo- update-manager improvments (better dist-upgrader integration, better cache representation)02:03
mvo- added printer-sharing to gnome-cups-manager02:03
mvo- implemented apt--install-recommends support for only certain sections (to implement meta-packages recommends support)02:03
mvo- added recommends-support to germinate 02:03
mvo- bug triage02:03
mvo- SoC mentoring (apt-sync)02:03
mvo- misc stuff (synaptic,gnome-app-install,dist-upgrader fixes, command-not-found)02:03
mvoSpecs:02:03
mvo- cdrom-based-dist-upgrades (ready, needs testing)02:03
mvo- dependency-removal (aptitude needs performance tuning, otherwise ready; will display auto-remove list if non-empty and give hint to use apt-get autoremove)02:03
mvo- gai-popcon: implemented, we could do with more people using popocon02:03
mvo- recommends-support (ready, only turned by default for meta-packages now)02:03
mvo- apt-ddtp (ready, seb128 discovered it today. the rosetta<->souyz think it not automatic yet, but needs manual updating)02:03
mvo- command-not-found-magic (in the archive)02:03
mvo- simple-popcon-participation (done)02:03
mvoWill do:02:03
mvo- bugs02:03
mvo- test the auto-dist-upgrade testing going on a official machine02:03
iwjmvo: is g-a-i fixed now ? :-)02:03
mvoiwj: *shhhhsss*02:04
mdzmvo: most of your stuff is in a state of landed-but-needs-testing...I suggest the same as for zul; get the word out about these features and encourage folks to test02:04
mdzUWN, -devel-announce, as appropriate02:04
mdzthere's some cool stuff in there02:04
mvoI will do that02:05
mdzthanks mvo02:05
KamionI should do that with s-i-k too02:05
mdziwj: next02:05
=== mvo considers getting a blog
mdzKamion: indeed02:05
mdzthere's no rule that we can't have more than one feature of the week in UWN ;-)02:05
iwjweek after the sprint: was on holiday02:05
iwjpackage-dependency-field-breaks: Changes to apt and aptitude now properly done: apt changes to support Break fully (from wiesbaden, now tested, working) and aptitude changes to treat it like Conflicts.  List of packages constructed for deployment for edgy upgrades - about a dozen in required and standard are my first ones to look at.02:05
iwjsuggest-packages-for-filetypes: Completed during the sprint (thanks to mvo for some optimisations to improve gnome-app-install's speed too) but unfortunately broken since.  mvo has the token atm for gnome-app-install atm AIUI, which is the last thing still to be put back to working.02:05
iwjautomated-testing-deployment: No change since last report.02:05
iwjnext week: firefox beta 2 (joy) (needs uvf exception, obviously); taking a look at the bug lists; trying out Breaks (let's try again) in a package or two, to check all is well before doing it a bit more widely; etc.02:05
iwjif I'm really lucky: automated-testing: packaging the xen setup scripts into autopkgtest02:05
mdziwj: the last apt upload I saw said that the breaks changes were untested; is that no longer true?02:06
iwjThere's nothing in the archive that uses the breaks changes but I have tested them locally and they DTRT.02:06
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mvoiwj: sorry for the breakage, I will fix that tomorrow02:06
iwjmvo: NP :-)02:06
mdzok, please land at least one Breaks this week (leaving time to see the effects before you go for the weekend) to start exercising it02:07
iwjmdz: Right, willdo.02:07
mdziwj: is there still hope of seeing a final firefox for edgy?02:07
iwjmdz: I haven't been following ff upstream.02:07
iwjSo I don't know.02:08
mdzthe last I heard from them they hoped to land it before our final date, but it sounded awfully close02:08
iwjHeh heh.02:08
Kamioniwj: feels to me like we should avoid Breaks in required and important for now, since that could be in dpkg/apt's dependency chain02:08
iwjI think we'll just have to go with whatever beta is available, really.02:08
dholbachthere was a new version to experimental, no?02:08
Kamionat least, extreme care would be called for there02:08
iwjKamion: That shouldn't be a problem, really.  Talk about it tomorrow morning ?02:08
Kamioniwj: sure02:08
Kamionwhen we're both more awake02:08
iwjQuite.02:08
mdzok02:08
mdziwj: so -breaks can go to beta status once it's being exercised in the archive, and you'll be ok for FF02:09
iwjRight.02:09
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iwjI'll try to get a Breaks or two out by lunchtime tomorrow.02:09
mdzgreat, thanks02:09
mdzdoko: next02:09
iwj01:09 <iwj> I'll try to get a Breaks or two out by lunchtime tomorrow.02:09
iwj01:09 <mdz> great, thanks02:09
iwjErr, sorry :-).02:09
doko- this week02:09
doko  - edgy-toolchain: address libstdc++ ABI issues on powerpc and sparc; mcpp02:09
doko    update02:09
doko  - java-roadmap: provide a 32bit java runtime on amd6402:09
doko  - openoffice.org - OOo 2.0.4 rc1 packages, ia32-libs updates,02:09
doko    -l10n and -amd64 updates for dapper-proposed, test builds on all02:10
doko    release architectures, testing on i386 and powerpc, work around02:10
doko    sparc problems with smp kernels.02:10
doko    build problems: OOo currently only builds on the machines in the02:10
doko    datacenter, not on fresh edgy installs. same problem we had in02:10
doko    dapper at the end.02:10
doko  - python2.5 added as a supported python version. python2.5 related02:10
doko    rebuilds scheduled for tonight.02:10
doko  - other: some toolchain related phone calls, SoC nagging, machine upgrade02:10
doko- this week / next week:02:10
doko  - OOo tests, bug triage02:10
doko  - python cleanup02:10
doko  - OOoCon02:10
doko- edgy+1: write a checker/generator for "Replaces" fields ...02:10
iwjdoko: Replaces> eh ?02:10
mdzdoko: are your statuses in LP up to date?02:10
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dokoiwj: I'm tired to find out file moves between binaries built from the same source by hand02:11
mdznone of your specs are past 'good progress' yet02:11
mvodoko: what about the upgrade problem from dapper->edgy when python2.3 breaks? I have seen a few duplicates of this02:11
dokomdz: will update them tonight.02:11
iwjdoko: Ah.02:11
iwjCount me interested ...02:11
mdzdoko: is edgy-toolchain-roadmap complete for feature freeze?02:11
Seveasmvo, 'a few'... closer to 'a few dozen'02:11
mdzand python-roadmap?02:12
mvoSeveas: :)02:12
dokoyes, it was complete last week (if you count the ABI problem as a bug report)02:12
mdzdoko: please send me a mail when they are up to date so that we can discuss, and remember to update before meetings02:12
dokomdz: ok02:12
mdzthanks02:12
mdzdid I miss anyone?02:13
Keybukme02:13
mdzKeybuk: you're up02:13
KeybukNew Note 1102:13
KeybukDone:02:13
Keybuk * On Leave02:13
Keybuk * Upstart into main and ubuntu-minimal02:13
Keybuk * Transition requires a double dist-upgrade run, or use of the update tool (can't be helped due to dpkg/apt "features")02:13
KeybukTo do:02:13
Keybuk * Start on some bug fixes02:13
Keybuk * Finish off upstart article for Linux.com02:13
KeybukBootMessageLogging: 02:13
Keybuk * I think we were on crack when we wrote this spec, it turned into something of a christmas tree02:13
Keybuk * Assuming it's ok to simplify it to just "boot messages are logged to a file, and not displayed if 'quiet' on the kernel command-line" then it can be marked as implemented with my next upstart upload and we can focus on the other things later02:13
Keybuk * Given the above, checkroot, checkfs and cryptdisks need special treatment -- but they'll need that for the new usplash too anyway02:13
Keybuk * Otherwise I'm deferring it and leaving messages on the console (new usplash hides them on tty8 anyway)02:13
KeybukDashAsBinSh:02:13
Keybuk * Implemented early in the cycle02:13
Keybuk * Opted not to change /bin/sh from a diverted symlink as the code that's there works with lots of different shells and actually works, no matter how unaesthetic02:13
Keybuk * A few, but no major, shell issues have been reported and dealt with.  I'm not aware of any outstanding ones.02:13
KeybukReplacementInit:02:13
Keybuk * Really happy with how well this has gone, has been installed by default for a few days and still only getting trivial bugs02:13
Keybuk * Deferred changes to initscripts to edgy+1 due to problems with LVM, etc. uncovered during testing; would rather attack these on a fresh release than break edgy at this point02:13
mdzKeybuk: I didn't notice upgrade weirdness with upstart, though I had some issues with oo.o which may have masked it02:13
Keybuk * Have an active community for upstart already02:14
Keybuk * Already speccing out edgy+1 things that will probably be implemented "upstream" as we go anyway02:14
Keybuk * General query ... given that development will be continuing (e.g. changes to events and job states coming rsn) should I maintain this in edgy post-FF or only upload bug fixes and instead have a separate archive?02:14
KeybukTeardown:02:14
Keybuk * Implemented early in the cycle02:14
Keybuk * A few things have crept back in, will treat those as bugs02:14
KeybukAutomakeTransition:02:14
Keybuk * deferred until edgy+102:14
Keybuk * Debian will probably do most of this for us02:14
Keybuk * automake 1.9 is the highest priority alternative in edgy02:14
KeybukLibAtaForAtaDisks02:14
Keybuk * Not strictly my spec, but I helped with it02:14
Keybuk * The kernel-side was deferred in favour of waiting for upstream to shake out the bugs now the patches are landing in 2.6.1902:14
Keybuk * The UUID stuff went in though, we have working mount-by-uuid, swap-by-uuid and resume-by-uuid02:14
Keybuk * Unless you use any filesystem fabbione cares about, of course, but he can fix those problems :p02:14
Keybuk-- 02:14
Keybukoops, that was a little more verbose than I intended :p  it looked smaller on the note02:14
Keybukmdz: basically dpkg/apt/synaptic will refuse to upgrade ubuntu-minimal on the first try, because it'd remove an essential package (sysvinit)02:14
Keybukbut on the second try, sysvinit got upgraded to non-essential, so then it updates ubuntu-minimal, removes sysvinit and installs upstart02:14
Keybukthe update tool special-cases this02:14
mdzKeybuk: the important bit of boot-message-logging was capturing console output02:14
Keybukand everyone who does it by hand is pretty used to looping several times anyway02:15
mvoKeybuk: I teached the upgrader about it already02:15
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mdzKeybuk: will tomorrow's upstart handle that part?02:15
Keybukmdz: indeed, it will.  console output will be sent to /var/log/boot02:15
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KamionKeybuk: oh, err, we never did do yaboot, unless Ben did it02:15
KamionIIRC he took the token from me with my wholehearted blessing02:16
Kamionfor libata-for-ata-disks02:16
mdzKeybuk: ok then, I'd be happy with that.  iirc I raised some questions about the feeping creaturism in that spec at the summit ;-)02:16
Keybukmdz: ok, that'll go in today02:16
mdzKeybuk: regarding ongoing development of upstart, it depends on what you plan to do.  intrusive stuff shouldn't go into edgy at this point02:17
Keybukdefining intrusive is tricky ;p02:17
mdzbut simple and safe is ok for the sake of minimizing branchiness and keeping momentum02:18
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mdzKeybuk: having a diversion responsible for handling my /bin/sh gives me the creeps02:18
Keybukof course, the only things using upstart in edgy are the upstart package itself02:18
Keybukmdz: I know ... but that diversion code works, and works for a whole number of different shells02:18
mdzKeybuk: the impact of bugs can be...er...severe :-)02:19
iwjHit ^C at the wrong moment and *crunch*02:19
iwjIMO it's a serious bug for one of the essential bits of an essential package to be diverted.02:19
mdzKeybuk: let's play it by ear; let's talk about the specific changes you want ot land as they come along02:19
Keybukwe never actually made dash essential02:20
iwjUnless you take huge especial care of carefulness.02:20
KamionKeybuk: bash is essential and /bin/sh is its essential bit02:20
iwjbash is essential and /bin/sh is its most essential bit.02:20
Keybukmdz: *nods* my gut feeling is that I should branch it at the stable point for FF, and then be conversative on the edgy branch02:20
Kamionwow, snap02:20
mdzKamion,iwj: ...02:20
Keybukright02:20
Keybukthat's the reason we didn't make dash essential <g>  there was no need02:20
mdzok, on that note02:21
mdzany other business?02:21
MithrandirI'd like to go to sleep. :-P02:21
iwjI would delete Keybuk's /bin/sh but I need some sleep first :-).02:21
mdzoh, one quick note: we now have a 'Not Started' state in the spec tracker.  use it.02:21
mdzno spec should be in 'Unknown' state anymore unless we're truly unsure about where it stands, which will be an unusual case02:22
Kamionwill specs start out at that rather than Unknown in the future?02:22
mdzunclear; I think Unknown might make sense as an initial state because sometimes specs postdate the start of work02:22
Kamionmdz: one of the five Edgy specs in Unknown is yours :-)02:22
mdzKamion: I'll be fixing that shortly02:23
Keybukd'oh02:23
mdzok, good night folks02:23
Kamionoh, which reminds me, we never turned on universe and multiverse by default for edgy02:23
Kamion-> #ubuntu-devel, I won't hold up people's sleep for this02:23
dholbachgood night folks02:23
mdzagreed02:23
iwjGoodnight ...02:23
mdzadjourned02:23
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fschoepgood night everyone02:23
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pittigood night everyone *yawn*02:24
mvogood night everyone02:24
kwwiinight02:26
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Hobbseejono: you still around?02:28
jonoHobbsee, yep for a few mins02:29
jono:)02:29
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu Handbook | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
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