=== Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [12:10] anybody here I can give feedback on the art to [12:10] ? [12:21] sure [12:21] let me have it :-) [12:21] which art do you mean? [12:22] ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu, or xubuntu? [12:42] ? [12:42] burgundavia [12:53] troy_s, kwwii: ubuntu [12:53] sure... [12:53] Burgundavia: definitely [12:53] I love the new background, except for one part: the blue on it [12:54] The login splash is just as good as the old one [12:54] Burgundavia its a nightmare currently... it sort of spiraled from a cmyk to rgb transition [12:54] however, the one piece I would like to see the same is the login screen (gdm theme) [12:54] blue in the wallpaper? [12:54] in ubuntu? [12:54] huh? [12:54] jdub was mentioning how this is the first thing that people see when they walk up to an Ubuntu machine [12:54] the blue in the upper right [12:55] the gdm has thus far been the most widely acclaimed change. i don't know how it will change etc. a large part is determined by the gods. [12:55] plus the new gdm theme is much darker [12:55] if there is one direction our artwork should not go, it is darker [12:56] the old gdm theme was very bright and light, while still maintaining the brown we are famous for [12:56] contrast is a very important element. the palette is subject to some refinements though, the problem is tweaking _one_ colour cascades down. and the palette must work with the existing high vis icons. [12:56] yes [12:56] its a tricky juggling act. [12:57] if there is one piece of feedback I have recieved almost universally from non-Ubuntu people is that our current backgrounds are too dark [12:57] needless to say, you will probably be seeing some subtle palette variations soon, and a different lsplash. [12:57] hence why I like how light the new background is [12:58] Burgundavia personally -- i feel if we just let ubuntu be what it is we gain a certain degree of distinctive look. the dark dapper wallpaper had a certain mysterious quality to it... possibly related to the contrast between the tonality. [12:58] so please: there is no need to change the login screen from what it was [12:58] from a marketing perspective, it is great [12:58] light, while clearly ours [12:58] and it is the one piece we have never changed [12:59] your points have been heard. again though, a good portion of the direction is out of a single persons hands. [12:59] we shall see how things shape in the coming term. [01:00] the best thing about edgy is that it is a test platform for edgy+1 :-) [01:00] anyone have a link to the new wallpaper for ubuntu [01:00] if I send an email to the artwork list, will somebody pass it through the spam filters? (my inbox is too busy to allow me to subscribe to the artwork list) [01:00] Burgundavia: for your info, I am doing kubuntu artwork, so I am not 100% up to date with ubuntu [01:01] well the problem currently burg [01:01] is that we are trying to unify the look / build a visual harmony [01:01] as of dapper, [01:01] almost _every_ element is completely disparate [01:01] there are three primary techniques used to achieve visual harmony [01:02] and we need to at least give some of them a shot. [01:03] yes [01:03] the basic idea is to build a set of images that corresponds nicely with the hardest to change element -- the icons. [01:04] I would build around the login screen, which has the advantage of being one of the lightest elements in the group [01:04] as sab wants to keep those for the time, and i tend to agree with him [01:04] well like i said, the palette is relative. [01:04] it was far darker earlier on [01:04] I get a lot of feedback about how dark the default theme is [01:04] and has gradually gotten lighter. [01:04] yes, it has [01:05] needless to say, don't fret too much just yet. [01:06] i would expect the oil/handcraft to stay [01:06] but the averages will probably adjust. [01:06] i would like to get them all back to rgb values, but we shall see what happens this weekend. [01:07] and regarding the bluer tone [01:07] that palette is taken from a professional designers palette sheet [01:07] so it _does_ work, however, the 'shock' of ubuntu not being so monochromatic will probably lead to knee jerk reactions. [01:19] I have had the same experience with kubuntu [01:19] well it is one thing to be 'brown' tonally, another thing entirely to be monochromatic. [01:19] exactly [01:20] i would argue that the bulk of people's dissapointment with the brown was the monochromatic application. [01:20] you cannot limit an artist to one color, or you will get one-color-boring ideas [01:20] well... apple did ok with one colour that isn't even a bloody colour [01:20] :) === kwwii [n=kwwii@p549558C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Konversation] === kwwii_ [n=kwwii@p549558C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:50] night all [01:50] time for bed === kwwii_ [n=kwwii@p549558C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Konversation] [02:12] troy_s: yes, but never underestimate the marketing power of consistency [02:12] Burgundavia which is exactly the point of the edgy cycle [02:13] sorry? [02:13] the real issue at stake is: what exactly is consistent in ubuntu [02:13] ye [02:13] yes [02:13] and after hours of looking over the elements [02:13] and what we can and cannot change in a single cycle [02:13] we end up being bound to the high visibility elements -- like icons [02:13] the consistency I am talking about the changing of the login screen [02:13] that said, orange is out of the question, as the orange was intended originally as a highlight and was taken out of context a little. [02:14] and accent [02:14] the problem with the logon screen as it _currently_ is in dapper is quite easy: [02:14] 1) it is generated, which is a far cry from human, organic, etc. [02:14] generated? [02:15] 2) it is a radial grad, which feels very mechanical. [02:15] 3) the square elements in ubuntu need to be refined to match the more rounded feels of the icons, etc. [02:15] 4) the palette is different from the icons by a hue factor. [02:16] 5) if you keep the original, then you would need to keep _some_ motif, and unfortunately it has _none_ that relate to the rest of the look [02:16] just a few points, and there are more. [02:16] http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/jabra/install-docs-ubuntu_files/image032.jpg <-- you can make the elements square [02:16] less square, rather [02:16] but the glow is something I would keep [02:16] the glow is still there. [02:17] the primary issue is that the palette is completely all over the map for ubuntu [02:17] right [02:17] that is a long term problem, and one that most people react to when they say that they don't like brown. [02:17] nothing I am saying is disagreeing with you [02:17] which is a far generalistic issue. [02:17] I saying one thing: "Keep the general look of the login screen, including palette and tone" [02:18] how the rest of the artwork fits into that is something for the artwork types, not hte marketing ones [02:18] the problem is that [02:18] the icons don't match the dapper palette [02:18] and the icons, as per sabdfl, aren't changing. [02:18] rather [02:18] the dapper gdm [02:18] in fact, the gdm is about a contextually out of touch with the distribution as any portion. [02:19] so if the proposed solution is to keep the gdm from dapper [02:19] then we must retrofit _everything_ around that palette [02:19] and the nonexistent motif [02:19] which is entirely a problematic mission unto itself. [02:19] there simply isn't any easy solution unfortunately. [02:19] it is tricky from the bottom up [02:19] right [02:20] but the icon theme does not clash with the general theme of the dapper (and earlier) login screen [02:20] generally, i am more of the gentle pulling and trying to establish a few motifs to build around. [02:20] remember, we have not changed the login screen [02:20] actually it does [02:20] on about every level [02:20] from palette to tones to motif [02:20] motif? [02:21] a reoccurring element. the gdm lacks one, the icons _sort_ of have one (the trademark curve) etc. [02:21] right [02:21] thematic harmony [02:21] on a very subtle level. [02:22] ok, fair enough [02:22] however, the current edgy login screen looks *totally* different from the previous one [02:22] this is totally unacceptable, from a marketing position [02:22] well, totally isn't entirely correct. there is an underlying element below it that is identical to the original. [02:22] if we are going to change the login screen, it must be iterative [02:22] something _has_ to give [02:22] something will break [02:23] then break something else [02:23] from an aesthetic standpoint, you can't keep the gdm AND try to integrate a new background AND keep aesthetic harmony [02:23] the login screen is too important [02:23] like i said, it isn't set in stone yet. [02:23] nor even close [02:23] ultimately, edgy might look identical to dapper [02:24] sorry? [02:24] sabdfl calls the shots. [02:24] and from a marketing standpoint [02:24] I understand that [02:24] if you are going to issue from that vantage [02:24] you know about the term life cycle correct? [02:24] remember, I have been around Ubuntu since October 2004. I was at Mataro [02:24] i am not questioning your dedication or otherwise. [02:25] i am just saying that we need to discuss all of this and reconcile it further [02:25] i would like to try and keep it as evolutionary feeling as possible [02:25] no, I merely mentioning that I have been around awhiel and thus understand how sabdfl works [02:25] right now, i think the issue at hand is: [02:26] realizing that almost everyone agrees that aesthetic harmony is a bit of a priority. [02:26] 2) change will always invoke issues. period. [02:26] http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=718&slide=15 <-- this background is very nice [02:26] is is also clearly in the same palette range as the login screen [02:26] 3) no, its closer though. the problem is more that i don't think sabdfl likes the lighter tones. [02:27] jmak did that one i believe [02:27] try changing them lighter and see what happens [02:27] well that's certainly on the agenda [02:27] there _will_ be changes [02:27] the real test is to sit with all of the elements jumbled in a pile and look at them [02:27] they should all fit together like a puzzle [02:28] well, I hear you talking a lot of the "agenda" but the only changes I see have gone in the other direction [02:28] which is currently _far_ away from where dapper is. [02:28] and it is already Sept 9th [02:28] i don't mind if the art stays the way it is actually. this isn't a personal mandate by any stretch of the imagination. [02:28] the way it is being dapper or the current edfgy stuff? [02:29] well sabdfl has yet to weigh in on a quite a bit of the points. he is damn busy at the moment. [02:30] hmm, you realize you have actually passed the artwork freeze? [02:31] as that wqas Sept 7th [02:31] um. [02:31] yes. [02:31] putting on my other hat of documentation team, [02:31] you had better decided quicklyt [02:31] might i also remind you that i am not the AiC. [02:31] yes [02:31] it isn't for me to decide. the best i can do is try to get responses out of sabdfl. [02:31] and _that_ is quite a task. [02:32] the rapport is increasing, but it takes a helluva lot of work and my time is very slim. [02:32] sabdfl has a habit of liking to hcange the artwork very late in the cycle [02:32] drives the documentation team nuts [02:32] well... we tried to avoid that. [02:32] and so far, we have been successful. [02:32] they changed it for hoary 3 days before release [02:32] notice how this discussion is coming up _now_ :) [02:32] yes... ugly stuff. [02:33] trying to get into a schedule deadline is quite a bit of work. [02:33] having done this for a while (the creative end of things) this is a _very_ tricky situation on _so_ many new level.s [02:35] i plan on trying to accomodate a plethora of requests tonite, and yours will be at the top of the pile. believe me. [02:36] hopefully we can come to some sort of negotiated middle ground that works with the icons and the rest of the thematic elements of ubuntu. [02:36] yes [02:36] again, one of the problems of a distinct lack of design docs [02:36] but luckily even the term ubuntu connotes a certain degree of aesthetic [02:37] indeed [02:37] tbh, given we are already passed feature freeze, I think we should just leave the dapper artwork in place and work on non-default artwork [02:38] the only thing I would chnage might be the desktop background, but I would want to be within monday or tuesday [02:38] well... again, it will be sabdfl's call. not mine. i get pinched in this merely because i care about ubuntu's look and feel. [02:40] you also put me in a darn tough spot because [02:40] up to now, the most postive feedback from the forums, my private mail, the fridge, etc have all been about the new gdm look. [02:40] laf. [02:40] oops... i can't say laf anymore... lmao. === BHSPitMonkey [n=stephen@adsl-68-95-246-24.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:52] troy_s: is the login screen, splash and background available somewhere for me to link to as part of the UWN? [06:11] sorry Burgundavia, i was afk [06:11] You need a link to the images? Hrm... I think Frank was drafting a page on the wiki relevant to all of the elements. [06:12] I kind of need it in about 3 hours, so I might do the images myself [06:12] Eek. === BHSPitLappy [n=steve-o@adsl-68-95-246-24.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas [n=klepas@ppp55-43.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === msikma [n=msikma@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === SS2 [n=SS2@dslb-084-057-033-105.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [10:31] http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/usplash_rlsl_2.gif === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [10:37] great work sik [10:37] just mailed you [10:38] Thanks, I just read it [10:39] I think that if moving the logo up instead of in the center, it might be neat to not use a purely round radial light for the background, but rather a slightly tilted spotlight [10:39] sure try it. [10:39] see if we can hit phi with the circle [10:39] lighten the background to a nice shade [10:39] and see how the changes work out. [10:49] I've got a pretty nice design now but the difficulty lies in making the dithering work right [10:49] the background is lighter now and the dithering is more apparent that way [10:50] http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/usplash_rlsl_3.gif [10:51] we just broke an important technical barrier for usplash and already I'm wishing we had 16m colors :) [10:57] http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/usplash_rlsl_4.gif [11:22] night [11:23] also, preeeeeetty. [11:24] I like 3 a little better than 4. It doesn't have to be really dark [11:24] 4 is mostly about a subtle hue shift closer to brown [11:26] true, but it also removes that saturated area that filled the middle of 3 [11:26] all very pretty though... how are these getting made? [11:30] just photoshop [11:30] it has support for very basic animation [11:30] (depending on the state of the layers) [11:34] wow, that's good photoshop [11:34] although that's not very linux-purist-friendly ;P [11:37] msikma, it moves a bit too fast imho [11:38] Perhaps, the movement speed can be determined later on anyway, when it's all in place in the new usplash code. === PingunZ [n=kristof@147.13-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [11:48] Hey all [11:49] I need a favor, I'm making ubuntu splashes ( for apps like OOo, gimp, .. ). I need a .svg template, I'm not experienced enough with inkscape myself, so could anyone make a template for me ? [11:50] Atm I have this : http://pingunz.deviantart.com/gallery/?order=5&search=Splash [11:51] So basically, I need a background image .. maybe some effects on it and a template text [11:51] PingunZ: sure, but be aware, ubuntu will not brand programs that heavily by default [11:52] Burgundavia: I know that the chance that they get included is really small but I could put it on gnome-look or whatever .. [11:52] See, I just want a complete splash serie .. [11:55] Burgundavia: Could you make one for me ? [11:55] not currently, as it is almost 3am here and I am trying to get to sleep [11:57] Ok, good night === effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [12:12] troy_s: ping ! read up, could you make a splash-template for me ? [12:30] if you become active again, troy, maybe we could wrap up the new usplash. [12:30] I'm going afk [12:40] Yay, I found a nice splash background, it rocks !! [12:51] http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39553675/ [12:52] I'm making one for gimp / openoffice and xara too === effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:13] http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39528250/ [01:13] Made an opeoffice one too [01:19] maybe it where great in orange? [01:20] Easy to change .. I have it in .svg === effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === kwwii_ [n=kwwii@p549577EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:12] effraie: "maybe it where great in orange"? [02:13] yes? [02:14] do you want something? [02:16] Do you mean that PingunZ should make it orange? Because I totally did not understand what you said there. [02:17] yes, that was what i mean [02:18] Okay, I see [02:42] Thadam, gimp splash done too [02:42] ( was out for lunch ) [02:42] I'll see if I can make it orange effraie [02:43] shite, the gimp logo doesn't scale well [02:45] look here : http://ubunteros.free.fr/dotclear/images/oooubuntusplashorange.bmp [02:47] effraie: That kind of orange ? or that background ? [02:47] you could send me the background .. [02:48] no, i'cant... it's not mine. [02:48] but maybe you can contact the author? i found it on that blog [02:48] Oh, well I like my image more, but I could check how it looks in orange .. [02:49] http://zone13.digitalgrafis.com/files/intelmac_red_16001024_notxt.jpg [03:17] That background doesn't work well for the Ubuntu logo. [03:17] It blends in too much. === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-141-151-183-183.pitt.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:20] if you want.. take a look at some of my new wall paper posts ming/ =-=-= Start at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork =-=-= Tasks at http://www.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs =-=-= IRC Logs at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ =-=-= [03:20] * Topic for #ubuntu-artwork set by troy_s at Mon Sep 04 18:40:15 2006 [03:21] msikma: you like my splashes ? [03:22] Sorry bad copy paste up there http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3462&cat=500&ppuser=44394 [03:22] I do, but you should make them all consistent with the Banshee splash you made. [03:22] E.g. that format, a nicely rendered version of its icon used twice. [03:22] I don't think that the designs are very "Ubuntu", though [03:22] (Not just because they don't use the typical Ubuntu color set) [03:24] msikma: You have a point there .. [03:24] They are more suse-like [03:25] indeed [03:25] I've never seen striped used like that in Ubuntu before [03:26] I was asking for a background like the striped here this morning [03:26] but nobody replied to me so I just grabbed one from google === exs [n=exs@81-179-146-201.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:31] msikma: Could you make me a .svg template ? [03:31] svg template? [03:31] You mean a base to work with? [03:31] yup:) [03:32] I'm an Inkscape anti-hero :) [03:32] why would you want to use svg for this? They aren't scalable. [03:32] No, but I could easily scale them, and move/remove items [03:32] they are all based on the same .svg file === PingunZ is out, homework [04:28] msikma -- sorry man... i was in bed. === bersace [n=bersace@did75-13-82-243-217-90.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PingunZ [n=kristof@147.13-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PingunZ [n=kristof@147.13-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === cbx33 [n=node50@84-45-238-195.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:45] ARGH [05:45] this is ticking me off [05:45] What is ? [05:45] usplash [05:46] Are you making a theme for it or trying to get it to work ? [05:46] trying to get it to load the theme [05:47] I just keep getting the test screen [05:47] I know someone who has got it to work [05:47] I've made my .so file [05:47] I'm working on edubuntu [05:47] it sets up /etc/alternatives.... [05:47] I have replaced the /usr/lib/edubuntu-usplash.so with my new one [05:47] Hmm [05:48] ask se.veas [05:48] I've changes the symlink in /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-artwork.so to point to that file [05:48] yeh, he's not around at the mo [05:48] He patched it .. [05:48] I know [05:48] !ping Seveas [05:48] cbx33, update-initramfs -u [05:50] oooh thanky [05:50] Seveas I am a little concerned ;) [05:51] the symlinks point to each other on a default edubuntu install [05:51] p /etc/alternatives/usplash-artwork.so points to /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-artwork.so [05:51] and visa versa [05:52] cbx33, errr that's not good [05:52] yeh I know [05:52] circular resolutions ;) [05:52] /etc/alternatives/usplash-artwork.so should point somewhere else [05:52] whre should it point? [05:52] usplash-artwork-edubuntu.so [05:52] well my artwork didn;t work :( [05:53] i just got a black screen [05:53] crap [05:53] I broke it [05:53] I must be mega stupid [05:53] does this mean I did it wrong Seveas ;) [05:56] why did it go wrong ? [06:03] Seveas it appeared to make the .so ok [06:04] cbx33, tar up your theme and e-mail it [06:04] Seveas I used the kubuntu one [06:04] changed the images [06:04] and just make on it [06:04] would that work? [06:04] ogra said he did it that way [06:04] depends on the images [06:05] all same 256 color palette? [06:05] they are png 356 colours [06:05] 256 [06:05] sorry [06:05] yes [06:05] oh.... [06:05] possibly not the same pallete [06:05] crap [06:05] didn't know they had to all have the same pallete [06:05] do the throbbers have to have the same pallete as well? [06:05] http://carol.gimp.org/gimp/resources/palettes/howto.html [06:05] ys [06:05] yes* [06:06] all images must have the exact same pallette [06:06] ok would taht result in a black screen [06:06] and total system breakage ? [06:06] ;) [06:06] black screen is possible [06:06] it didn;t boot at all [06:06] that shouldn't happen [06:06] ok [06:06] well I'll try the pallete thing === andreasn [n=andreas@h151n2fls33o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [06:14] ok I have the new images [06:14] gonna try building now [06:14] if not I'll mail to you so you can tell me what an idiot ive been ;) === msikma [n=msikma@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [06:21] Seveas i have breakage [06:21] :( [06:21] I'm mailing you the images [06:21] the throbbers look odd but ignore that for now [06:28] did you mail it yet? === SS2 [n=SS2@dslb-084-057-026-136.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bersace [n=bersace@did75-13-82-243-217-90.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === SS3 [n=SS2@dslb-084-057-049-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [07:32] Seveas just doing it now [07:37] Seveas sent ! === kamstrup [n=kamstrup@0x3e42da90.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [08:03] cbx33, I'm not getting them [08:04] cbx33, heh, the spamfilter caught them === fschoep [n=franksch@adsl-dc-35cb8.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [08:26] Good evening everyone [08:27] hi fs [08:27] Doing fine? [08:27] howaz you dude [08:28] Fine, thanks [08:28] Reading up on my mail now [08:28] heheh [08:28] good good [08:31] troy_s: ping [08:37] fschoep [08:37] msikma ping [08:37] evening to you perhaps [08:37] Hi [08:37] Hello [08:37] how are you doing fschoep [08:37] Fine thanks [08:37] You? [08:37] sorry msikma, i had to go to sleep over here. [08:38] i wasn't ignoring you. [08:38] good thanks fschoep [08:38] That's okay [08:38] (didn't think you were) === SS2 [n=SS2@dslb-084-057-049-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [08:56] re === dborg [n=daniel@e182051028.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === fschoep [n=franksch@adsl-dc-35cb8.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PseudoPlacebo [n=Placebo@user-12lcr8r.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [11:25] ping msikma === PseudoPlacebo [n=Placebo@user-12lcr8r.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-artwork