| === Starting logfile irclogs/launchpad-meeting.log | ||
| === ubuntulog [i=ubuntulo@ubuntu/bot/ubuntulog] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| === ddaa [n=ddaa@nor75-18-82-241-238-155.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| === spiv [n=andrew@218-214-66-203.people.net.au] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| ddaa | Good. | 11:57 |
|---|---|---|
| ddaa | spiv: welcome back | 11:57 |
| spiv | ddaa: thanks. | 11:57 |
| ddaa | how was the vacation? | 11:57 |
| spiv | Fun. | 11:57 |
| spiv | Also, I have stitches in the back of my head. | 11:57 |
| ddaa | You finally had this neural plug implanted, eh? | 11:58 |
| spiv | I proved it is possible to hit yourself in the back of your head with a snowboard that's still attached to your feet. | 11:58 |
| ddaa | oh, yeah, it's quite feasible, those things are quite long | 11:59 |
| spiv | 159cm in my case :) | 11:59 |
| === ddaa prefers alpine skiing | ||
| ddaa | if only because I really cannot use a snowboard, and it's frustrating because it can do rather well with a pair of skis | 12:00 |
| ddaa | lifeless: SteveA: jamesh: ping | 12:00 |
| ddaa | MEETING STARTS | 12:00 |
| jamesh | knee boards aren't too bad | 12:00 |
| jamesh | but they work better on water than snow | 12:00 |
| ddaa | This is the "things with obscure names" meeting, and you all know what we are here for. | 12:01 |
| lifeless | hi | 12:01 |
| ddaa | Next meeting 2006-09-18, 10:00 UTC. | 12:01 |
| ddaa | mpool will be on leave. | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * roll call | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * production status | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * advertising | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * importd batch progress | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * release finder | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * Python import | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * strategic plan | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * bzr-lp features | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * interesting bzr list threads | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * 1.0 targets | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * critical bugs | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * pending sysadmin tasks | 12:01 |
| ddaa | * any other business | 12:01 |
| ddaa | If you wish to change the time of the meeting or add/remove agenda items, say "bzzzt!". | 12:01 |
| ddaa | If we are short on time, the "any other business" item will be automatically, dropped. So if you ''want'' to discuss something more, speak up now. | 12:02 |
| SteveA | hi | 12:02 |
| === SteveA reads agenda | ||
| ddaa | == Roll call == | 12:02 |
| ddaa | mpool is on leave until September 19th. | 12:02 |
| SteveA | please add "meeting in vilnius" | 12:02 |
| ddaa | SteveA: ok | 12:02 |
| ddaa | Everybody else has said hello already, so let's move on. | 12:03 |
| ddaa | == Prodution status == | 12:03 |
| ddaa | Nothing to report. | 12:03 |
| ddaa | That was easy. | 12:03 |
| ddaa | spiv: it looks like things do not tend to crash and burn while _you_ are away | 12:04 |
| spiv | Except me ;) | 12:04 |
| ddaa | == Advertising == | 12:04 |
| ddaa | Last meeting actions: | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * spiv: blog about similarities between SVN and bzr checkouts, in relation to Launchpad. | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * ddaa: when rolled out, to blog about branch UI improvements. | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * unassigned: when rolled out, blog about --create-prefix not being needed anymore. | 12:04 |
| ddaa | * ddaa: link to existing launchpad-bazaar blog entries from help.launchpad.net, and link from the front page. | 12:04 |
| ddaa | I did the latter: Blog entries linked from https://help.launchpad.net/BazaarLinks. | 12:04 |
| jamesh | I did an entry about the third | 12:05 |
| ddaa | I'm not sure it's worth blogging about about branch UI improvement since jamesh already mentioned them. | 12:05 |
| ddaa | spiv: still looking forward to reading your stuff. | 12:05 |
| lifeless | this week is possibly not the week for that for spiv | 12:06 |
| lifeless | release freeze is in 1 week | 12:06 |
| ddaa | No hurry. | 12:06 |
| ddaa | I can nag again next week. | 12:06 |
| SteveA | oh, there was something from last week. ddaa, please add to agenda "things to do before you go on leave" | 12:06 |
| ddaa | SteveA: ack | 12:07 |
| spiv | Yeah, nag me again next week please. | 12:07 |
| ddaa | So I'll drop all actions except for spiv's one. | 12:07 |
| ddaa | == Importd batch progress == | 12:08 |
| ddaa | Last meeting actions: | 12:08 |
| ddaa | * ddaa: sort out what to do with BatchProgress with lifeless and mpool | 12:08 |
| ddaa | I started that discussion. Lifeless suggests leaving the code in Launchpad, I still do not know how to ensure the provided API stays in sync with what bzrlib actually use. | 12:08 |
| ddaa | lifeless: can you help me on that this week? | 12:09 |
| SteveA | jamesh: what's the URL of your blog entry? | 12:09 |
| lifeless | ddaa: probably not. Next week sure. | 12:09 |
| jamesh | SteveA: http://blogs.gnome.org/view/jamesh/2006/09/06/0 | 12:09 |
| ddaa | SteveA: it's on https://help.launchpad.net/BazaarLinks | 12:09 |
| jamesh | it was just a short one | 12:09 |
| SteveA | ddaa: a test perhaps? | 12:09 |
| SteveA | a test in launchpad that checks that the API works | 12:09 |
| ddaa | SteveA: the problem is keeping those tests in sync with bzrlib, while it's not part of bzr | 12:09 |
| SteveA | I don't see that as a problem | 12:10 |
| ddaa | lifeless: okay, I can live with that delta in production for a while, if SteveA is happy with me doing that. | 12:10 |
| SteveA | the tests will fail if they get out of sync, surely? | 12:10 |
| SteveA | and so the test says "hello. API not in sync. do the work to make it in sync" | 12:11 |
| lifeless | can we move on - no actions will be taken on that until next week regardless | 12:11 |
| ddaa | SteveA: talk about that later, I think it more tricky than you appear to think. | 12:11 |
| ddaa | == Release finder == | 12:11 |
| ddaa | * jamesh: report on PRF progress. | 12:11 |
| jamesh | My fixes went in last week. Last I checked, PRF was still running today and hadn't crashed | 12:12 |
| lifeless | sweet | 12:12 |
| SteveA | product release finder? | 12:13 |
| === SteveA checks the "P" | ||
| lifeless | 2 years after inception and it will be deployable | 12:13 |
| jamesh | since it is an initial run, it has to do a fair bit of work and downloads | 12:13 |
| lifeless | product release finder | 12:13 |
| SteveA | thanks | 12:13 |
| lifeless | ddaa: PLEASE stop abbreviating ithis | 12:13 |
| ddaa | okay, then "release finder" | 12:13 |
| lifeless | product release finder | 12:14 |
| lifeless | we've had long threads about this | 12:14 |
| jamesh | while it hasn't been run in production, it will make the staging nightly.sh quite slow since it will essentially be doing a first run every night | 12:14 |
| ddaa | we still disagree | 12:14 |
| SteveA | it's fine to abbreviate provided the first time you introduce it in a meeting or a text you say: ... the Product Release Finder (PRF) | 12:14 |
| SteveA | then all is clear | 12:14 |
| lifeless | ddaa: currently you have been outvoted, its not 'me vs you' - can you at least go with the majority and have the disagreement as a separate discussion | 12:14 |
| ddaa | SteveA: okay | 12:15 |
| ddaa | lifeless: the first person to abbreviate it in IRC was not me. | 12:15 |
| jamesh | So if we are happy with the results, I think we should do at least one run in production | 12:15 |
| jamesh | so that we'll be seeing the incremental runtime of the program | 12:15 |
| lifeless | jamesh: if it passes successfully, lets get a report of the productname : version : tarballs it found | 12:15 |
| lifeless | jamesh: in tabular form. that will be easy to sanity check | 12:16 |
| jamesh | okay | 12:16 |
| lifeless | in fact, productname : series : version : tarball | 12:16 |
| ddaa | sounds good, though I think something that people will ask very soon after will be ability to delete releases | 12:16 |
| jamesh | ddaa: and the answer will be "no" :) | 12:16 |
| ddaa | I think that's a bad answere to give users. | 12:17 |
| jamesh | they might ask if they can fix the release dates though | 12:17 |
| ddaa | bah... we could have a discussion about that, either users will make my point soon enough, or it's not worth the time, so I'll shut ip. | 12:18 |
| ddaa | jamesh: good news, thank you | 12:18 |
| ddaa | == Python import == | 12:18 |
| ddaa | https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/56360 | 12:18 |
| ddaa | * ddaa: report on Python import progress | 12:18 |
| ddaa | The resolver errors were fixed. The Python import is now blocked on what appears to be a bzr bug in Testament.as_text_lines when file names contain non-ascii chars. | 12:18 |
| ddaa | More details: At the revision of the failure, the svn repo adds files like "/python/trunk/Mac/Contrib/PyIDE-src/Scripts/Hack/Remove .pyc files". In Testament.as_text_lines, the expression [line.encode('utf-8') for line in r] raises UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 74: ordinal not in range(128). | 12:19 |
| SteveA | I think that's from ancient history | 12:19 |
| lifeless | ddaa: is there a bug files for that ? | 12:19 |
| ddaa | IOW, it's currently blocked on getting a more recent bzr in rocketfuel | 12:19 |
| SteveA | I remember we saw something like that when we tried importing python with tla or baz | 12:19 |
| lifeless | ddaa: I'm not sure that this bug is fixed in bzr.dev. | 12:19 |
| lifeless | SteveA: not the same issue, please dont be distracted by it | 12:19 |
| SteveA | ok | 12:20 |
| lifeless | ddaa: can you please verify it is fixed by 0.10 ? | 12:20 |
| ddaa | lifeless: I can run a smoke test to check. | 12:20 |
| SteveA | from looking at the code, looks like "line" is accidentally ascii, then gets implicitly decoded to unicode in order to run .encode() on it | 12:20 |
| ddaa | ACTION: ddaa to try reproducing this bug with bzr 0.10 | 12:20 |
| ddaa | and bzr.dev too | 12:20 |
| lifeless | ddaa: thank you | 12:20 |
| ddaa | moving on | 12:21 |
| ddaa | == strategic plan == | 12:21 |
| ddaa | * SteveA, ddaa, lifeless, jamesh: asked to review 32/Bazaar. | 12:21 |
| ddaa | I think I did (though I do not remember for sure) | 12:22 |
| jamesh | I haven't sent him comments yet | 12:22 |
| ddaa | spiv: I think the same applies to you. | 12:22 |
| lifeless | ddaa: I already reviewed it as it was written | 12:22 |
| ddaa | ok | 12:22 |
| spiv | I read it, but I don't have any comments to make. | 12:23 |
| ddaa | SteveA: ? | 12:23 |
| SteveA | not done yet | 12:24 |
| lifeless | fun https://features.launchpad.net/products/bzr/+spec/bundle-piping | 12:24 |
| ddaa | okay, no big rush, but jamesh and SteveA please make mpool happy before he comes back. | 12:24 |
| ddaa | something like 9 days from now | 12:24 |
| ddaa | == bzr-lp features == | 12:25 |
| ddaa | * mpool: report on progress for bzr-lp features | 12:25 |
| ddaa | mpool is on leave | 12:25 |
| ddaa | does somebody want to speak for him? | 12:25 |
| lifeless | nope | 12:25 |
| lifeless | hurh hurh hurh | 12:25 |
| jamesh | is that the lp:// URL stuff, or something else? | 12:25 |
| ddaa | jamesh: both | 12:25 |
| lifeless | theres a collection of stuff | 12:25 |
| lifeless | which is all moving along piecemeal | 12:25 |
| ddaa | as is this meeting | 12:26 |
| ddaa | == Interesting bzr list threads == | 12:26 |
| ddaa | After discussion with SteveA about the difficulty of keeping up with the bzr mailing list to stay updated about interesting developments in the bzr community, I would like to ask the fine folks here to point me to "interesting" threads that happened in the past week. | 12:26 |
| ddaa | My definition of interesting here is: | 12:26 |
| ddaa | * Design discussions | 12:26 |
| ddaa | * Discussion of new/future bzr features | 12:26 |
| ddaa | * Release management decisions | 12:26 |
| ddaa | * Discussions providing interesting insights into the needs of users | 12:26 |
| ddaa | * Anything related to Launchpad | 12:26 |
| ddaa | That explicitly excludes "noise" like: | 12:26 |
| ddaa | * Simple code review | 12:26 |
| ddaa | * Discussion of internal implementation choices | 12:26 |
| ddaa | * Trivial user support | 12:26 |
| lifeless | uhm | 12:26 |
| jamesh | I've been pushing the working tree revision properties stuff through, which is a prerequisite for the AutomaticBugBranchLinks spec | 12:26 |
| lifeless | wow, I have no idea how to generate that list trivially | 12:27 |
| ddaa | jamesh: seen that, looks like good idea IMO | 12:27 |
| lifeless | RM I've nothing to report on | 12:27 |
| lifeless | nothing major has changed in the design philosophy | 12:27 |
| ddaa | It's a bit of an experiment, but maybe guys here could take some notes with pertinent keywords (e.g. words in the subject of the emails) | 12:27 |
| lifeless | new features have been creeping into 0.11 at quite a reasonable pace | 12:27 |
| ddaa | Anyway, since it's the first time you read of that, let's just see if that gives something useful for next week's meeting. | 12:28 |
| ddaa | == Things to do before you go on leave == | 12:29 |
| ddaa | SteveA: the stage is yours | 12:29 |
| SteveA | thanks | 12:29 |
| SteveA | so, iirc, there were some loose ends left around that we found out about in this meeting after spiv went on vacation | 12:29 |
| SteveA | can anyone remember the details? | 12:30 |
| lifeless | yes | 12:30 |
| lifeless | push all branches | 12:30 |
| ddaa | something about spiv branches not being pushed | 12:30 |
| lifeless | send an email saying where its at | 12:30 |
| SteveA | I'm going to put up a standard policy for "things to do before you go on vacation" -- a checklist | 12:30 |
| SteveA | for the launchpad team | 12:30 |
| SteveA | and I want to make sure it will cover the situation we had a short while ago | 12:30 |
| SteveA | ok | 12:30 |
| SteveA | so | 12:30 |
| SteveA | - push all branches | 12:31 |
| spiv | A checklist would be really handy. | 12:31 |
| SteveA | - send an email about ongoing / outstanding issues | 12:31 |
| SteveA | including details of branches in progress | 12:31 |
| lifeless | right, the situation was : Martin and I wanted to move the smart server forward, but could not because about 2 days work was not pushed | 12:31 |
| SteveA | the idea being that others can continue where you left off | 12:31 |
| === ddaa has been pondering using bound branches to avoid forgetting to push | ||
| lifeless | in this particular case, there is a bunch of uncommitted reorganisation going on which is fine - but it would have been good to have an rsync'd copy of that available | 12:32 |
| SteveA | spiv: in this case, did it occur to you to do this kind of thing as you were preparing to leave on vacation? I'm wondering how best to remind people | 12:32 |
| SteveA | even if we have a checklist, it needs to be used | 12:32 |
| spiv | I find before a holiday I tend to go "oh oops, I need to make sure I have StaffCalendar updated, make sure I have nothing still assigned in PendingReviews, oh I better make sure I have a holiday notice on my review queue, while I'm on the wiki fill in apologies for meetings...." | 12:34 |
| SteveA | ah, so more things for the checklist | 12:34 |
| SteveA | particularly for reviewers | 12:34 |
| ddaa | SteveA: if the checklist includes some sort of report, it should be pretty easy to check for people who just completely forget. | 12:35 |
| spiv | With the pushing in this case, I usually push work regularly, but as lifeless points out there was a lot of uncommitted state due to the nature of the work at that point. | 12:35 |
| lifeless | reviewers need to put their leave in the reviews page | 12:35 |
| lifeless | having things assigned in the reviews page is ok | 12:35 |
| SteveA | ok | 12:35 |
| lifeless | I will reassign if you put a 'I'm on leave' marker there - but an email to me would help | 12:35 |
| SteveA | thanks for talking through this | 12:35 |
| SteveA | I'll formulate a launchpad policy for this | 12:36 |
| SteveA | ddaa: thanks, done | 12:36 |
| ddaa | ACTION: SteveA to increase the bureaucracy of the Lauchpad team | 12:36 |
| ddaa | ;) | 12:36 |
| ddaa | == Meeting in Vilnius == | 12:36 |
| ddaa | SteveA: ? | 12:36 |
| SteveA | tim penhey is joining us soon | 12:36 |
| lifeless | cool | 12:36 |
| SteveA | he'll report to mpool, work from NZ | 12:36 |
| ddaa | That's cool! | 12:37 |
| ddaa | ? | 12:37 |
| SteveA | and he may stop over in sydney on his way to dunedin | 12:37 |
| ddaa | Report to mpool? | 12:37 |
| SteveA | or however you spell dunedin | 12:37 |
| lifeless | he was a couple o years ahead of me at uni, small world syndrome | 12:37 |
| SteveA | mpool will be taking a greater interest in how launchpad is used with bzr, once 1.0 is out | 12:37 |
| SteveA | and, considering timezones too, this is a natural thing | 12:37 |
| ddaa | SteveA: does that mean I'll be reporting to mpool too? | 12:38 |
| SteveA | no | 12:38 |
| SteveA | you'll stay reporting to me | 12:38 |
| SteveA | and then you and tim will work together a lot | 12:38 |
| SteveA | we'll see how it goes | 12:38 |
| ddaa | Weird to have a pair with two different line managers. | 12:38 |
| SteveA | not so weird | 12:38 |
| lifeless | ddaa: I think locality of time zone is quite important | 12:38 |
| SteveA | I sometimes coordinate with mdz a lot | 12:38 |
| SteveA | but also, mpool and I do talk a lot | 12:38 |
| === ddaa remembers the section about Hybrid Organizations in the book he read recently | ||
| lifeless | one of things that we had difficulty with was effective communication | 12:39 |
| SteveA | and we talk with each other a lot too :-) | 12:39 |
| lifeless | due to us being effectivelyt 12 hours out | 12:39 |
| ddaa | Makes sense, after all. | 12:39 |
| ddaa | So, what about Vilnius? | 12:39 |
| SteveA | so, tim and I have talked about him coming to vilnius to get an introduction to bzr in launchpad | 12:40 |
| SteveA | first week of october is one set of dates possible | 12:40 |
| SteveA | ddaa: woiuld you be able to come then too? | 12:40 |
| ddaa | I do not have anything specific planned. | 12:40 |
| SteveA | another possibility is 2nd week of october | 12:40 |
| ddaa | So, provisionally, yes. | 12:40 |
| SteveA | and that might work out better for me, as host | 12:40 |
| SteveA | I'll know after wednesday | 12:40 |
| SteveA | ddaa: is either week okay with you? | 12:41 |
| jamesh | mbp also posted about https://wiki.canonical.com/BazaarSprintSydney2006 last week | 12:41 |
| ddaa | as far as I recall, yes. I'll start preparing Ewa to it. | 12:41 |
| jamesh | is any coordination with that needed? | 12:41 |
| lifeless | should not be | 12:41 |
| lifeless | separate topics, codebases, agendas | 12:42 |
| ddaa | lifeless++ | 12:42 |
| SteveA | jamesh: have you considered going to the sydney sprint? | 12:42 |
| jamesh | SteveA: if it would be useful for me to go, then sure. | 12:43 |
| lifeless | would you like to come ? | 12:43 |
| lifeless | we want to be doing bzr code primarily during that time | 12:44 |
| lifeless | smart server, dirstate, performance | 12:44 |
| SteveA | I see various lp things on the agenda | 12:44 |
| SteveA | if the lp things will be in one half of the week, james could go for that | 12:44 |
| lifeless | its 2 weeks long | 12:44 |
| SteveA | s/week/weeks/ | 12:45 |
| jamesh | the LP integration stuff looks interesting, and I've been doing a bit of work on that. It would be interesting to see what the bzr folks think of our plans | 12:45 |
| SteveA | anyway, doesn't need to be deicided in this meeting | 12:45 |
| lifeless | there is LP stuff there | 12:45 |
| SteveA | jamesh: one week on the lp/bzr stuff in that meeting is fine with me | 12:45 |
| SteveA | sort it out with lifeless and mpool | 12:46 |
| lifeless | because bzr/lp is the strategic overview | 12:46 |
| lifeless | but I fully expect most of the time to be the detail of getting bzr to win vs hg | 12:46 |
| jamesh | Launchpad as a compliment to Bazaar could definitely help there ... | 12:47 |
| lifeless | yup | 12:47 |
| SteveA | ddaa: anything else on the agenda? | 12:47 |
| ddaa | that has been the plan for like... 11 months now? | 12:47 |
| ddaa | == 1.0 targets == | 12:47 |
| ddaa | [skipping] | 12:47 |
| ddaa | == Critical bugs == | 12:48 |
| ddaa | Good news, worth showing off. | 12:48 |
| ddaa | https://launchpad.net/bugs/31308 Cannot set branch associated to a product series. | 12:48 |
| ddaa | * Last meeting jamesh agreed to work on that. Jamesh, progress? | 12:48 |
| lifeless | its in staging | 12:48 |
| ddaa | https://launchpad.net/bugs/37897 renaming project, product or series breaks vcs imports. Fix released. | 12:48 |
| ddaa | * ddaa: report on deployment | 12:48 |
| ddaa | https://launchpad.net/bugs/51130 cannot use +admin on a branch I own. Fix released. | 12:48 |
| jamesh | I tried it out for some products I own, and it works nicely | 12:48 |
| ddaa | importd-publish-source was deployed, squashing https://launchpad.net/bugs/37897. A few imports did not have a cscvs working tree and failed the transition: | 12:48 |
| ddaa | * silo (now on git), console-data (svn branch renamed), xrestop (now on git), libmusicbrainz and libtunepimp (now on svn). All these are obsolete and unfixable and are now STOPPED. | 12:48 |
| ddaa | * exe (https://launchpad.net/products/exe/trunk) also failed: their svn repo appears offline, the download instructions have not been updated, and I had no reply when asking on IRC (#exe on freenode). Marked the import STOPPED by lack of information needed to fix it. | 12:48 |
| lifeless | theres a report on lp-users of a CVS repo that needs the host changed in lp | 12:49 |
| ddaa | In other words, all our criticals will be fixed by the next rollou. | 12:49 |
| ddaa | lifeless: thanks, will do today. | 12:49 |
| ddaa | MEETING CLOSED | 12:50 |
| ddaa | Sorry for the abrupt end, be we are overdue already. | 12:50 |
| SteveA | ddaa: I'd like a voice call with you today. | 12:51 |
| ddaa | sorry for forgetting to report last week | 12:51 |
| ddaa | I was a bad boy. | 12:51 |
| ddaa | What time would you like to voice? | 12:51 |
| ddaa | A bit later in the afternoon would be nice, say between 1400 and 1600 UTC? | 12:53 |
| SteveA | 1600 is way too late | 12:53 |
| SteveA | 1400 is possible. earlier is better for me | 12:53 |
| ddaa | I'm concerned about coordinating lunch with Ewa, she's not well at all at the moment. | 12:54 |
| ddaa | And out of the house right now. | 12:54 |
| ddaa | SteveA: we can have voice in 30 mins if you want. | 12:55 |
| ddaa | Just time for me to have a little break. | 12:55 |
| SteveA | that's a very good time for me. thanks | 12:56 |
| SteveA | 30 mins past the next hour | 12:56 |
| ddaa | That's 1130 UTC | 12:56 |
| SteveA | lifeless: got time for a quick phone call? | 12:56 |
| === ddaa goes to the place | ||
| lifeless | SteveA: after the review meeting | 12:57 |
| SteveA | which is in 2 mins? | 12:57 |
| lifeless | yes | 12:57 |
| SteveA | ok, thanks | 12:57 |
| === jamesh_ [n=james@203-59-208-48.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
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