[12:10] <AlinuxOS> doko, http://www.teutonici.com/Alinux/OOo_2.0.4-ka-GE.gsi   Voila!
[12:10] <AlinuxOS> it's pure gsi ;)
[12:11] <jdong> pure, uncut, powdered gsi :)
[12:13] <AlinuxSOS> doko, if some problems just ping me.
[12:33] <jdub> eek! console-setup questions!
[01:13] <_lemsx1_> umm.. anybody uses OpenOffice from Edgy? it seems that when you try to save the program crashes
[01:14] <_lemsx1_> same when opening documents using File>Open
[01:14] <ajmitch> dbus lib issue, I think there'a a bug filed about it
[01:14] <_lemsx1_> ajmitch: that saves me from reporting this. thanks!
[01:16] <ajmitch> bug 58508
[01:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58508 in openoffice.org "cant save under edgy" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58508
[01:16] <ajmitch> looks like that one
[01:16] <_lemsx1_> ok. reading...
[01:16] <_lemsx1_> the fun thing is that you can quit OOo
[01:16] <_lemsx1_> it keeps coming back!
[01:24] <Nafallo> hmm, not even triaged...
[01:26] <Kaleo> Kamion: I would like to point you to bug 58500
[01:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58500 in ubiquity "The resize operation is impossible" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58500
[01:26] <Fujitsu> Anyone around to bump that OOo up to High/Critical? It got me on Friday...
[01:30] <wasabi> So uh. LaunchPad thinks my key has expired. Which, is true. It has an old key. I've increased the date.
[01:30] <wasabi> How do I make LP refresh it?
[01:30] <wasabi> Old key info, that is. Same key.
[01:31] <Fujitsu> Just reupload it to the server.
[01:31] <Fujitsu> (keyserver.ubuntu.com)
[01:31] <wasabi> Ahh that's a keyserver.
[01:31] <wasabi> Was trying to use hte web interface
[01:32] <Burgundavia> zul_: are the xen changes you just uploaded significant?
[01:35] <xav> I just made a minimal edgy install, I love it. it boots and shutdowns much faster, and everything looks cleaner
[01:42] <xav> now I can make ubuntu windows-like by rebooting every 5 min, I'll do it just for fun
[01:46] <jdub> http://lists.linux.org.au/archives/lca-announce/2006-September/msg00000.html
[01:53] <ajmitch> jdub: is that a gentle hint for us?
[01:53] <jdub> ajmitch: s/gentle hint/vicious kick in the behind/
[01:53] <Fujitsu> It can be a rough hint if you want :P
[01:54] <Fujitsu> Yeah, what jdub said.
[01:54] <jdub> though i believe current ubuntu innovations have already been covered in proposals
[01:54] <jdub> to date
[01:54] <jdub> (scott on upstart)
[02:03] <Keybuk> jdub: do you think my proposal needs more words/rewording?
[02:05] <jdub> Keybuk: haven't read it
[02:19] <bluefoxicy> so hmm.
[02:20] <bluefoxicy> has anyone considered integration of FUSE into HAL to get things like ntfs-3g and sshfs easy to set up
[02:22] <bluefoxicy> (no I have no idea how the heck this is supposed to work, there are security considerations though I think the proper way to handle it is to make sure only what the user can get to some other way can be mounted via fuse-- which is normal, as long as the fuse file system module is run as the user)
[02:34] <jdong> bluefoxicy: I think that's on the big Linux utopian todo list... next to good tasting diet soda, open source ATI and nvidia drivers....
[02:35] <jdong> swap management up to par with freebsd...
[02:35] <mjg59> Goddamned ioapic suspend/resume code
[02:36] <zul_> Burgundavia: yes, they are
[02:36] <Burgundavia> zul_: how? (wnat to add something about them to UWN)
[02:36] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  the swap management thing sounds easy.
[02:37] <zul_> Burgundavia: added a bunch of 3rd party drivers, new snapshot, some bug fixes
[02:37] <jdong> bluefoxicy: heh, it's not as bad as I make it sound... linux already pretty good at it
[02:37] <Burgundavia> zul_: the third party drivers appear to be mostly networking ones
[02:37] <zul_> ie: ndiswrapper, bcm43xx, etc
[02:37] <jdong> bluefoxicy: just my experience on ram-limited old hardware is that freebsd still does it better
[02:37] <zul_> Burgundavia: true..
[02:37] <Burgundavia> zul_: ok, just wondering
[02:37] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  Get Nitan to get his patches into mainline when they wrok
[02:38] <jdong> :)
[02:38] <zul_> Burgundavia: no problems, they werent there before though :)
[02:38] <Burgundavia> zul_: no, I wanted to clarify. Adding somethign to UWN now
[02:38] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  that'll make ram-limited twice as efficient and ample ram basically no faster/slower at all :)
[02:38] <zul_> ok..ill probably blog something about it later as well
[02:39] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompressedMemory
[02:39] <jdong> yeah, the whole compressed memory thing sounds very nice
[02:39] <mjg59> Hngh stabby stabby
[02:39] <jdong> hope to see it in action soon
[02:40] <mjg59> This code is approximately unreadable
[02:40] <Burgundavia> zul_: cool
[02:40] <Burgundavia> zul_: ping me with the blog url
[02:40] <Seveas> mjg59, try running rot13 on it
[02:40] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  the nice thing is it runs UNDER the swap cache
[02:41] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  swap cache caches recent swap-in/swap-out and thus prevents write-back of non-dirty pages to swap when being swapped back out (they're on disk already, if they're not dirty there's no reason to write) and prevents read-back of recently swapped pages (because they're kept in memory until we really need them gone)
[02:42] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  with compression this translates to avoiding compressing/decompressing pages instead of avoiding swapping pages; so compressed memory can't really make the problem of swapping any worse, which is a nice magic touch.
[02:47] <bddebian> Howdy
[02:48] <zul_> Burgundavia: no problem
[03:09] <administrator> does anyone know the commandline to regenerate the debian menu system like debian packages do after they are installed?
[03:09] <administrator> is*
[03:13] <administrator> hmm maybe not
[03:14] <administrator> it seems no one know not even the people who created debian
[03:14] <administrator> knows8
[03:14] <administrator> *
[03:14] <administrator> well if anyone here knows
[03:14] <administrator>  just ping me
[03:21] <sbalneav> administrator: This isn't the channel for support, or debian support, but the command you're looking for is update-menus
[03:27] <administrator> sbalneav: tried it it does not work
[03:27] <administrator> sbalneav: also i doubt anyone in #ubuntu whould know i have asked before
[03:28] <sbalneav> Are you doing this is debian, or ubuntu, first of all?
[03:29] <administrator> ubuntu
[03:29] <administrator> and not on gnome either
[03:30] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: where woudl I find the final report for your SoC stuff?
[03:30] <mjg59> Menus in gnome are not generated using the Debian menu system
[03:30] <mjg59> And this is still the wrong place to ask
[03:30] <sbalneav> AFAIK, menu entries are handled differently on Ubuntu, using the newer menu editor
[03:30] <administrator> mjg59: 20:29 < administrator> and not on gnome either
[03:30] <crimsun> that's the correct command. If it "doesn't work", perhaps you need to log out and back in or otherwise tell whatever app providing the menus to reread its conffile(s) [sighup?] 
[04:01] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: I'll get back to you on that, I'm at work at the moment
[04:02] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: sure, thanks
[04:18] <zul_> meh...wife calling ttyl
[05:15] <SEJeff> Can I close a bug in lp if I am not the maintainer? Some glaring ones that I just commented on like this which I am trying to triage: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/31925
[05:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31925 in compiz "Please package new upstream version" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
[05:16] <Hobbsee> SEJeff: if it's fixed, yes
[05:38] <SEJeff> Thanks, they told me how in #launchpad
[07:10] <fabbione> morning
[08:22] <Kagou> hi
[08:25] <mempf> hi
[09:14] <dholbach> good morning
[09:14] <pygi> hey dholbach 
[09:14] <dholbach> hey pygi
[09:16] <pitti> Good morning
[09:17] <Hobbsee> hey dholbach, pygi, pitti!
[09:20] <pitti> Hobbsee: Good morning Mrs. KDE!
[09:20] <Hobbsee> pitti: mrs?  who'd i marry? :P
[09:24] <pitti> Hobbsee: KDE of course :)
[09:24] <Hobbsee> pitti: ah right
[09:24] <pitti> 'until the CVS server breakage parts you'
[09:24] <Hobbsee> lol
[09:33] <Kamion> jdub: it shouldn't ask questions, so please file a bug with all your details (/etc/X11/xorg.conf, 'echo GET debian-installer/keymap | debconf-communicate', /etc/default/console-setup)
[09:56] <Mithrandir> mvo: mind taking a look at https://launchpad.net/bugs/49977 ?  It looks more like an apt bug than anything else.
[09:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49977 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 "After kernel upgrade to 2.6.15-25 X server cannot find nvidia module " [Untriaged,Confirmed]  
[10:09] <mvo> Mithrandir: looking at it now and trying to reproduce it on my dapper box
[10:18] <vehbi> why mp3,divx  and rar are not supported by default?
[10:19] <Fujitsu> vehbi, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats.
[10:19] <Fujitsu> (and try #ubuntu, here isn't the right place to asK)
[10:19] <vehbi> I know it , I am asking this question because some distrubitions support this out of box, and people think that they are better
[10:20] <Fujitsu> vehbi, those formats are patented, so have questionable legal connotations.
[10:20] <xav> some distrib doesn't even provide it with official repo
[10:20] <Mithrandir> vehbi: we can't, for legal reasons.  This has been debated to death on the mailing lists and I think there's a discussion on that page too.
[10:21] <vehbi> how can other distrubitons can add them?
[10:21] <Mithrandir> vehbi: they're probably willing to take the legal risk.  We aren't.
[10:21] <Kamion> we believe that those "some distributions" are taking a legal risk, and we'd rather Mark's money went towards employing developers than fighting lawsuits
[10:21] <Kamion> more to the point, so would Mark, in this case ...
[10:21] <Kamion> (we discussed this stuff extensively back in the beginning)
[10:22] <vehbi> ohh, I got it but as I said people think -who knows linux a bit or nothing-other distrubtions are good:(
[10:23] <Kamion> I'm afraid our orbital mind control lasers are not yet operational
[10:23] <Mithrandir> vehbi: well, there's nothing we can do about that, really.
[10:24] <vehbi> Can you make a package that installs all this stuff easily for home users?
[10:24] <vehbi> one big package
[10:24] <Mithrandir> no
[10:25] <vehbi> ok:)
[10:25] <Mithrandir> sorry.  We'd like to make MP3s and DVDs and flash and all that work out of the box, but there are legal reasons why we can't.
[10:25] <Mithrandir> it's not that we're evil or anything like that.  We just can't.
[10:25] <Fujitsu> EasyUbuntu is for this sort of thing.
[10:26] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: flash as in Macromedia Flash or as in memory cards? :)
[10:26] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: the former.
[10:26] <vehbi> Fujitsu:yes thats what I try to say
[10:27] <Fujitsu> Treenaks, Adobe Flash nowadays :P
[10:28] <Treenaks> Fujitsu: same thing, same thing  ;)
[10:31] <Kamion> vehbi: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/easy-codec-installation outlines ways to improve the user experience for multimedia codecs; https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/common-customizations goes through the rest of EasyUbuntu et al and tries to figure out what we can incorporate. Unfortunately neither made the Edgy feature freeze, but they'll stay on the list for the future.
[10:34] <jdub> Kamion: heard of the desktop installer hanging after clicking next on the keyboard page?
[10:34] <jdub> bork, it's not doing it now
[10:35] <jdub> the installer formatted the windows partition as ext3 earlier
[10:35] <mvo> Mithrandir: I commented on the bug (I don't think its a apt bug, more a problem with the users install)
[10:35] <jdub> i'm going through it again because it had some python spew last time, and i want to make sure i did / didn't tell it to ext3ise windows
[10:36] <Mithrandir> mvo: well, one could argue that apt should try to install as few extra packages as possible.
[10:37] <mvo> Mithrandir: right, that would be a valid claim. feel free to retitle/reassign it to apt with a wishlist think to imporive the resolver
[10:38] <mvo> Mithrandir: OTOH if just no linux-restricted-modules package is installed 
[10:39] <Kamion> jdub: I'd much rather you filed bugs about this sort of thing
[10:39] <Kamion> I don't mind getting duplicates
[10:39] <mvo> Mithrandir: and the user wants nvidia-glx, apt has the choice between install l-s-r-2.6.15-23 or l-s-r-2.6.15-26. in both cases just one additional package
[10:39] <jdub> Kamion: determining if it's a bug or not first :-)
[10:39] <Kamion> jdub: and shit, you went through it again? did you save the logs from the first time?
[10:39] <jdub> Kamion: pretty soon after the installer horked, the machine froze
[10:40] <Kamion> jdub: at what stage did it freeze?
[10:40] <jdub> the installer tb window was up, i left it for a while, and it was frozen (blank screen, too) after that
[10:41] <jdub> so no evidence of connection
[10:41] <Kamion> I mean how far had it got
[10:41] <Kamion> the traceback window can appear at any time, so that says nothing
[10:41] <Mithrandir> mvo: well, if the -23 kernel isn't installed, it shouldn't try to install that one.
[10:41] <jdub> oh
[10:41] <jdub> back to the larger window after the small install progress window had finished
[10:41] <Mithrandir> mvo: unsure what would be a good heuristic to break cases where it can install either of two packages -- almost sounds like it should handle kernel packages specially
[10:42] <mvo> Mithrandir: right, but if -23 is installed than this heuristic won't work
[10:42] <Kamion> jdub: it doesn't go back to the larger window normally
[10:42] <Kamion> you mean to the "installation complete" dialog?
[10:42] <mvo> Mithrandir: *nod*
[10:42] <jdub> Kamion: yeah
[10:42] <Kamion> jdub: in that case, it had almost certainly saved the logs to the installed system already
[10:43] <Kamion> jdub: but by reinstalling before talking to me, you've probably erased the evidence :(
[10:46] <slomo_> doko: ping?
[10:47] <pitti> slomo_: hi
[10:47] <slomo_> hi pitti :)
[10:47] <pitti> slomo_: please tell me how apport 0.20 works with mono
[10:47] <Kamion> jdub: also, we recently swapped out the keyboard backend, so hangs are quite possible, but I'd need the logs
[10:47] <slomo_> pitti: ok :)
[10:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: do you have an eta for when we're able to get at the debugging symbols?
[10:48] <pitti> Mithrandir: I hope this or next week, depends on infinity's work load
[10:48] <doko> slomo_: I'm away, please send email
[10:49] <slomo_> doko: ok
[10:50] <Kamion> mbiebl: ok, fixed your console-setup issue in 1.7ubuntu8
[10:51] <Kamion> mbiebl: the stty error is something else; I don't know what
[10:51] <Fujitsu> Hm.
[10:51] <Fujitsu> With the latest upstart/usplash update, I've got my tty1 back..
[10:53] <Fujitsu> But mknod spews a `File exists' error for tty[1-8]  on tty1.
[10:54] <Kamion> yeah, likewise, I think it's harmless but
[10:55] <Kamion> oh, it'll be in usplash
[10:55] <Kamion> I was about to upload that anyway for powerpc - I can easily fix that
[10:55] <Fujitsu> Why would usplash be doing that?
[10:55] <Kamion> it needs to create the ttys so it can switch to them
[10:55] <Kamion> usplash (0.4-11) edgy; urgency=low
[10:55] <Kamion>   * Take over responsibility for ensuring that the tty device nodes
[10:55] <Kamion>     exist in time for usplash
[10:55] <Kamion>  -- Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>  Mon,  7 Aug 2006 21:02:09 +0100
[10:56] <Kamion> in fact it was done earlier, usplash 0.1-17
[10:56] <Kamion>   * initramfs/scripts/init-top/usplash:
[10:56] <Kamion>     - mknod tty0-tty8, tty8 is the terminal that usplash -c switches to
[10:56] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[10:57] <Fujitsu> How will you fix that?
[10:57] <Fujitsu> Redirect their output?
[10:57] <Fujitsu> Or eliminate them?
[10:57] <Kamion> -                mknod /dev/tty$i c 4 $i
[10:57] <Kamion> +                [ -e /dev/tty$i ]  || mknod /dev/tty$i c 4 $i
[10:57] <xav> sounds good :)
[10:57] <Kamion> possibly [ -c ]  actually
[10:58] <Kamion> if it's not a character device, you at least want the error
[10:58] <Fujitsu> I'd say so.
[10:58] <Fujitsu> :)
[10:59] <Kamion> init-top/framebuffer creates those devices too; maybe that should be eliminated per Matthew's changelog entry
[10:59] <Kamion> but shrug, not urgent
[11:07] <xav> is that where the "extended states" come from : "added support for aptitude like auto-install tracking" ?
[11:08] <Mithrandir> mvo: are you aware that update-manager fails to start ATM?
[11:08] <Mithrandir> mvo: ImportError: No module named dbus_bindings
[11:09] <xav> where does apt development happen?
[11:10] <Mithrandir> actually, that's a bug in dbus.py
[11:10] <pitti> Riddell: can you please test the current edgy daily langpacks? we plan another update today
[11:11] <Riddell> pitti: from where?
[11:11] <pygi> xav, come to #synaptic, ask there =)
[11:12] <pitti> Riddell: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/edgy/ ./  (usual location)
[11:12] <mvo> xav: yes
[11:12] <xav> pygi: but I also would like to know how debian and ubuntu deal with upstream, if any
[11:12] <pygi> xav, mvo is upstream and he's here :) come to #synaptic pls :)
[11:14] <pitti> Riddell: oh, please postpone that, we need to wait for today's dailies (in the afternoon)
[11:21] <Mithrandir> slomo_: dude, your dbus-python upload broke stuff; it doesn't clean up byte-compiled files properly.
[11:22] <slomo_> Mithrandir: yep, already noticed it although it worked fine here :/ seems to be a bug in pycentral, i'll look into it soon
[11:23] <slomo_> Mithrandir: bug #59775
[11:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59775 in dbus-python "dbus-python is broken" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59775
[11:23] <Mithrandir> slomo_: thanks.
[11:28] <jdub> HOLY CRAP
[11:28] <jdub> the new console font makes me feel like i'm using AIX
[11:28] <Spads> where is gsmitty?
[11:30] <Fujitsu> Which font, jdub?
[11:32] <Treenaks> Spads: gsmitty?! for _gnome_?
[11:32] <Treenaks> Fujitsu: terminus
[11:34] <Spads> Treenaks: you know you want it.
[11:34] <Kamion> it's designed to reduce eye fatigue
[11:34] <Kamion> (terminus)
[11:35] <Kamion> I might change the default though, depending on script coverage
[11:36] <Kamion> yeah, there doesn't seem to be anything that Terminus supports that Fixed doesn't
[11:36] <Kamion> or VGA16
[11:36] <Kamion> but jdub whining doesn't really count :P
[11:37] <lifeless> was that a whine ?
[11:37] <Treenaks> I think it was a compliment :P
[11:37] <Mithrandir> lifeless: comparing Ubuntu to AIX?  Yes.
[11:38] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I got console-setup questions too now
[11:38] <Kamion> Mithrandir: can you get me details?
[11:38] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sure, what do you want?
[11:39] <Kamion> Mithrandir: /etc/X11/xorg.conf, debian-installer/keymap, /etc/default/console-setup
[11:39] <Kamion> and if you can, a DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer trace
[11:40] <Mithrandir> in a bug or just here?
[11:41] <Kamion> a bug would be good
[11:46] <jdub> hooray for new laptop netcat!
[11:46] <jdub> Kamion: i quite like it, but it does remind me of AIX. all it needs is green.
[11:47] <Spads> and then synaptic needs a smitty theme
[11:47] <Kamion> jdub: heh. can probably be arranged ;-)
[11:47] <Mithrandir> Kamion: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/console-setup/+bug/59883 now
[11:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59883 in console-setup "Asks questions on installation" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[11:47] <Treenaks> Spads: just adapt yast2 ;)
[11:48] <Kamion> Mithrandir: thanks
[11:49] <jdub> Kamion: my housemate was wondering if i should suggest it.
[11:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: do you remember which questions it asked?
[11:49] <Mithrandir> Kamion: origin and then exact model
[11:50] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ah, right
[11:50] <Mithrandir> Kamion: for some reason, console-setup is marked as unpacked about half a zillion times in dpkg.log.. Unsure if that has anything to do with it.
[11:51] <Mithrandir> Kamion: also, I got the xkb-data/xkeyboard-config upgrade at the same time
[11:51] <Mithrandir> hmm, no, xkb-data has the same "status unpacked" half a zillion times
[11:52] <Kamion> "origin" actually means layout - crappy text
[11:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir: model is normally before layout ...
[11:53] <Kamion> unless you mean layout then variant?
[11:53] <Mithrandir> Country, then variant, I think it's called, yes.
[11:54] <Kamion> ok, xorg.conf is probably the one I really need, then
[11:54] <Mithrandir> variant being the one where it asked about norwegian, norwegian without dead keys, norwegian (sami), etc
[11:54] <Kamion> right
[11:54] <Mithrandir> maybe it got confused about my XKbOptions compose:caps
[11:55] <Kamion> what's your XkbLayout?
[11:55] <Mithrandir>         Option          "XkbLayout"     "no"
[11:55] <Kamion> oh, you're right, XkbOptions compose:caps will confuse it
[11:56] <Kamion> though I'm surprised it asked for layout/variant at all then
[11:56] <Kamion> you should have got console-setup/dont_ask_layout
[11:56] <Mithrandir> doing a dpkg -P and then reinstalling does not cause it to reask the questions.
[11:56] <Kamion> well, FSVO "should"
[11:58] <Kamion> oh, no, compose:caps *is* handled
[11:58] <Kamion>             compose:caps)
[11:58] <Kamion>                 default_compose='Caps Lock';;
[11:58] <Kamion> I just can't read
[11:59] <Kamion> Mithrandir: silly question, but what's debconf/priority set to?
[11:59] <Kamion> Mithrandir: and did you have /etc/default/console-setup before this installation of console-setup?
[12:00] <Mithrandir> Kamion: high.
[12:00] <Kamion> if you have /etc/default/console-setup but the questions aren't marked as seen (which seems unusual), then it will ask
[12:00] <Mithrandir> Kamion: no, I don't think I had /etc/default/console-setup beforehand.
[12:00] <Kamion> as far as I can see, that's the only way this could have happened
[12:02] <Mithrandir> Kamion: maybe. :-/
[12:02] <pitti> Kamion: maybe it relates to this matter, on this morning's dist-upgrade I had postfix' general configuration debconf question
[12:03] <pitti> Kamion: such as postfix would have forgotten that it already displayed this question
[12:03] <pitti> I suspected a postfix bug, but it might be related to this console-setup bug somehow
[12:03] <fabbione> hmmmm
[12:03] <fabbione> this new console-* thingy doesn't have the concept of "No keyboard connected"
[12:06] <dholbach> Kamion: seems like upstream is going to release gparted 0.3.1 soon - just wanted to let you know in case you still considered it
[12:08] <Mithrandir> Riddell: you might want to poke whoever has done http://wiki.kubuntu.org/EdgyEft/Knot2/Kubuntu in the past to do a Knot3 now; we're getting close.
[12:13] <Riddell> Mithrandir: what's our target edgy 3 release day?
[12:14] <Mithrandir> Riddell: Thursday.
[12:14] <Riddell> ok
[12:14] <Riddell> nixternal: ^^
[12:14] <slomo_> Mithrandir: i'm completely unable to reproduce the dbus-python bug here :( i'll upload a dbus-python which checks for this files in postinst when upgrading from a lower version and then removes them for now... fine with you?
[12:15] <Mithrandir> slomo_: sure, that's fine.
[12:15] <Mithrandir> (I'm drafting a mail to ubuntu-devel now asking if anybody has any big changes they want in before main freezes tomorrow)
[12:15] <Fade> Mithrandir: I got emacs rebuilt with the requisite deb_build options.
[12:15] <Kamion> pitti: seems unlikely; that's orders of magnitude more likely to be a postfix bug
[12:15] <pitti> Kamion: ok
[12:15] <Fade> s/emacs/xemacs
[12:15] <Kamion> fabbione: please file a bug or I will forget
[12:16] <fabbione> Kamion: what's this new source?
[12:16] <fabbione> Kamion: (name)
[12:16] <Mithrandir> Fade: console-setup
[12:17] <fabbione> thanks
[12:17] <Mithrandir> uh
[12:17] <Mithrandir> s/Fade/fabio/
[12:17] <fabbione> yeah gotchat
[12:17] <Fade> I was very confused there momentarily.
[12:19] <Mithrandir> Kamion: should we move the "Tell Jeff about upcoming milestone" a bit earlier on the milestonerythm page?  It makes more sense for us to warn QA and Jeff that we'll need resources soon rather than "We need them now, immediately", doesn't it?
[12:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes
[01:07] <iwj> pitti: BTW, I'm about to upload m-f-l-all with Breaks in it.
[01:09] <pitti> iwj: ah, great
[01:09] <pitti> iwj: instead of the Conflicts: ?
[01:10] <pitti> iwj: (I'm not sure whether Breaks: is supposed to handle this rather special case, but you certainly know better than me)
[01:11] <ogra> pitti, i assume you didnt get a chance to look over the SCP MIR ?
[01:11] <pitti> sorry, not at Friday; I plan to do another review session today
[01:11] <HiddenWolf> pitti: is apport supposed to actually work already?
[01:12] <pitti> HiddenWolf: sure, is it not for you?
[01:12] <HiddenWolf> pitti: I got an error when it wanted to send a crash.
[01:13] <pitti> HiddenWolf: can you please file a bug with the details?
[01:13] <ogra> pitti, i assume you didnt get a chance to look over the SCP MIR ?
 sorry, not at Friday; I plan to do another review session today
[01:13] <pitti> ogra: ^
[01:13] <HiddenWolf> pitti: I will, if I can reproduce it.
[01:13] <ogra> pitti, thanks :)
[01:14] <ogra> sorry, very flaky WLAN over here 
[01:14] <tseng> pitti: can yo uplease just note on the wv mir that youve approved it verbally?
[01:15] <tseng> pitti: so Colin doesnt give me dirty looks for using it :)
[01:15] <Tonio_> pitti: hi ;)
[01:15] <Tonio_> pitti: I was looking at bluez config, and it looks like hidd is disabled by default
[01:16] <pitti> tseng: yes, I will
[01:16] <pitti> hi Tonio_ 
[01:16] <Tonio_> pitti: why not activating this, since one always have have to connect the peripherical once at least ?
[01:16] <iwj> pitti: Yes, this is just what Breaks is for.  I'm not sure why you think it's a weird special case.  It seems perfectly normal to me.
[01:16] <pitti> Tonio_: no idea TBH, I never looked into BT affairs until now
[01:16] <Tonio_> pitti: activating it just avoids  performing the sudo hidd --connect at every boot
[01:16] <Tonio_> pitti: you just do it once and for all
[01:17] <pitti> iwj: it's 'either it depends on ffox >= 1.99 and <= 2.0.99 or it depends on language-support-de'
[01:17] <Tonio_> pitti: is there someone I should ping concerning this ? cause hidd hardware is really hard to manage for Joe currently :)
[01:17] <pitti> Tonio_: that seems to make sense; is there an existing init script for that?
[01:17] <pitti> Tonio_: yes, the bug tracking system
[01:18] <Tonio_> pitti: well the config file is /etc/default/bluetooth
[01:18] <Tonio_> just one line to change and it become far more usable :)
[01:18] <Tonio_> okay I'll bug about this
[01:18] <Tonio_> pitti: thanks
[01:19] <iwj> pitti: Ah, I see what you mean now.
[01:19] <pitti> Tonio_: that seems easy to achieve; please subscribe 'pitti' and 'mdz' (mdz has to approve this change, since it is a feature, I guess)
[01:19] <Tonio_> pitti: sure
[01:19] <iwj> pitti: But yes, Breaks is an improvement even if it can't exactly express the complete situation.
[01:20] <pitti> Tonio_: so it just seems off by default to work for older kernels
[01:21] <Tonio_> pitti: ah ! Well I'm reporting with all informations and probably mdz will decide ;)
[01:22] <pitti> Tonio_: I'll check this out and write a comment, that's why I'd like to be CC'ed
[01:22] <Tonio_> pitti: hehe
[01:25] <Tonio_> pitti: bug 59894
[01:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59894 in bluez-utils "HIDD periphericals are disabled by default" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59894
[01:31] <ogra> Mithrandir, i'll be travelling on thursday ...
[01:31] <ogra> so its unlikely i can test CDs
[01:32] <Mithrandir> ogra: can't you get somebody else to test them for you?  Or just make sure they're perfect on Wednesday.
[01:33] <ogra> having thme perfect on wednesday wont guarantee that ltsp-build-client works fine ... there are some packages that are edubuntu-specific, if they break it wont work ...
[01:33] <ogra> (i often had that in the past)
[01:34] <ogra> but i'll try my best 
[01:34] <Mithrandir> ogra: thanks; this schedule was drawn three weeks ago so it would have been helpful if you had complained then rather than now
[01:34] <ogra> it would be very odd to not have edubuntu knot3 since thats the one that contains *all* ltsp changes for the first time 
[01:35] <ogra> i can probably find someone for i386 testing ...
[01:35] <ogra> but the ltsp stuff needs a lot testing and i dont know if i can find someone with the right HW
[01:35] <ogra> well, i posted the dates of my travel since 4 weeks in the dev meeting ...
[01:36] <ogra> i wasnt looking at the knot schedule, sorry for that
[01:38] <pitti> iwj: btw, you know about m-f-l-a's magic of generating debian/control?
[01:39] <iwj> pitti: Yes, thanks.  I got bitten by that last time :-).
[01:39] <iwj> This time, I ran update-debian-files after editing just the template.
[01:39] <pitti> right
[01:46] <tepsipakki> hmm, there's a new xmms uploaded in late June, but it still isn't built :)
[01:47] <pitti> tepsipakki: hrm, we totally need email notifications about FTBFSes...
[01:47] <tepsipakki> :)
[01:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: we have the code for doing them now, AIUI
[01:48] <pitti> oh, wow
[01:49] <Fujitsu> pitti, that'd be good...
[01:49] <tepsipakki> a friend of mine told about xmms hanging on dapper/sarge (mp3 streams), on etch it works so wondered why edgy still had the same version as dapper
[01:54] <Remenic> seb128: who's responsible for the xorg driver packages (notably ati driver) in ubuntu?
[01:59] <pitti> Remenic: rodarvus ATM
[01:59] <pitti> rodarvus: hello Rodrigo, how are you?
[02:00] <rodarvus> hi pitti :)
[02:01] <rodarvus> I'm better, thanks
[02:01] <rodarvus> thankfully we were able to prepare the last rites and attend the funeral of my father in time
[02:03] <rodarvus> thanks dude, appreciated
[02:03] <pygi> hey pitti, how are you?
[02:04] <pitti> pygi: I'm fine, thanks! got apport rocking a bit more, and now back to security :)
[02:04] <pygi> pitti, nice. congrats ^_^
[02:06] <pygi> pitti, I made libburn rocking even more :)
[02:06] <pitti> pygi!
[02:07] <pitti> pygi: did you notice that Debian just forked cdrtools? (mainly due to license issues)
[02:07] <pitti> pygi: let's hope that will be only temporary then, thanks to your work
[02:07] <pygi> pitti, I know everything about cdrkit, yes ^_^
[02:11] <popey> pitti: i doubt it's temporary
[02:11] <pitti> popey: I perfectly see the need for it for etch
[02:11] <pitti> popey: but eventually something like libburn seems like a better approach to me?
[02:12] <popey> anything that doesn't have the "baggage" that cdrtools has
[02:13] <pitti> popey: 'baggage'?
[02:14] <HrdwrBoB> having been writing by a sociopathic crazed person
[02:14] <HrdwrBoB> er... I mean, nothing
[02:15] <popey> heh
[02:15] <popey> the flame wars that go along with it whenever the kernel changes something to do with scsi or ide
[02:16] <Remenic> rodarvus: hey, you're aware of some rendering issues with ubuntu with the ati drivers, right?
[02:16] <pitti> pygi: how difficult would it be to write some python wrapper around libburn that emulates an useful subset of cdrecord's command line? and what about mkisofs?
[02:17] <rodarvus> Remenic, yes. I got an UVF exception approval I had requested last week
[02:17] <pygi> pitti, I know that you'll have a python bindings for both libburn and libisofs, and that we have cdrskin (written in C tho) which emulates useful subset of cdrecord command line 
[02:17] <Remenic> rodarvus: Benjamin Otte (aka Company) has written a patch that fixes this, but it hasn't been applied upstream, and probably won't be for a while. So I'm really hoping that you could apply this patch for ubuntu
[02:17] <rodarvus> in a few hours, a new version of the open source ati driver will be uploaded
[02:17] <Remenic> UVF exception?
[02:17] <rodarvus> Remenic, I appreciate if you could point me to the bug report describing his patch
[02:17] <pygi> pitti, we are also planning to write genisofs, the emulation app which will emulate mkisofs command line (it'll also be written in C)
[02:18] <Remenic> rodarvus: here it is https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8134
[02:18] <Ubugtu> Freedesktop bug 8134 in Driver/Radeon "Render Composite with POT sources broken" [Normal,Resolved: duplicate]  
[02:18] <pitti> pygi: that ... simply rocks :)
[02:18] <Remenic> rodarvus: ok it's basically a workaround, but it's better than nothing
[02:18] <pygi> pitti, if you really need command line cdrecord emulation which is written in python, it would be trivial once the bindings are out, but I don't see why when you already have cdrskin
[02:18] <rodarvus> Remenic, thanks, I'll take a look at it later today
[02:18] <Remenic> rodarvus: thank you! I'll poke you again tomorrow ;)
[02:18] <pitti> pygi: cdrskin seems to be exactly that, doesn't it?
[02:18] <rodarvus> no promises it will be applied yet, though :)
[02:18] <pygi> pitti, backward compatibility is important :)
[02:18] <pygi> pitti, indeed :)
[02:19] <Remenic> rodarvus: that's ok :)
[02:19] <pygi> pitti, and you wouldn't believe how close are we to making -tao work...
[02:21] <pitti> hi BenC_ 
[02:21] <BenC_> hey pitti
[02:22] <Kamion> pygi: if you could make HFS+/ISO9660 hybrid filesystems work as well as HFS/ISO9660, I would love you
[02:22] <Kamion> pygi: as would a lot of Intel Mac users
[02:23] <pygi> Kamion, you mean this? :)
[02:23] <pygi> http://libburn.pykix.org/ticket/68
[02:24] <Kamion> pygi: that's HFS (needed for powerpc Mac booting)
[02:24] <Kamion> pygi: HFS+ is a different filesystem
[02:24] <Kamion> so yes, http://libburn.pykix.org/ticket/68 will be needed too, but wasn't what I was asking about. :-)
[02:24] <pygi> Kamion, ok, then file a ticket about both of your requests pls? :)
[02:25] <Kamion> both of them?
[02:25] <pygi> oh, one. sorry =)
[02:25] <pygi> HFS+ only :)
[02:25] <Riddell> Kamion: where is this new grub setup button on ubiquity-gtk?
[02:26] <Kamion> Riddell: on the summary page
[02:26] <Kamion> was the easiest place to put it where I could get debconf out of the way while the page was being displayed
[02:26] <pygi> Kamion, I'll try to make sure you get it for libisofs 0.3.0 ^_^
[02:27] <pygi> feature freeze for 0.2.1 is in 4 days :P
[02:27] <Kamion> pygi: http://libburn.pykix.org/ticket/71
[02:27] <Kamion> thanks!
[02:28] <pygi> thanks for the ticket
[02:28] <pygi> Kamion, I assume this is correct spec for HFS?
[02:28] <pygi> http://developer.apple.com/technotes/fl/fl_36.html
[02:28] <pygi> (regular HFS)
[02:31] <pygi> brb, lunch, would be glad if you could confirm the above Kamion so I don't end up implementing wrong stuff :)
[02:31] <seb128> Remenic: rodarvus but I see you figured it out :)
[02:32] <Kamion> pygi: I'm not sure - I thought mkisofs just overlaid the filesystems, rather than using the Apple extensions, but I'm not certain
[02:32] <Kamion> pygi: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/mac/Files/Files-99.html is the full HFS specification
[02:32] <Remenic> seb128: hehe yeah, but thanks :)
[02:32] <Kamion> pygi: I'd compare both of the above with mkisofs and see which is the best match :)
[02:32] <Remenic> seb128: if rodarvus can apply that patch, then I'm going to apply a new progressbar style
[02:32] <pygi> Kamion, ok, thanks :)
[02:34] <seb128> Remenic: is that the same issue than bug #34435 ?
[02:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34435 in gtk-engines "Cairo and ATI RENDER extension cause scrambled buttons in UbuntuLooks" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34435
[02:34] <Remenic> seb128: I Think so, yes
[02:34] <seb128> ok
[02:34] <Remenic> seb128: one that has been haunting ubuntulooks for a long time now
[02:34] <seb128> right
[02:35] <seb128> how does it make difference for progressbar then? ;)
[02:35] <pitti> Remenic: ooooh, don't tell me there's finally a patch for that?
[02:35] <Remenic> pitti: yup!
[02:35] <Remenic> pitti: a workaround, but still ;)
[02:35] <seb128> I mean the bug would be really nice to fix
[02:35] <Remenic> better than nothing
[02:35] <sladen> Ubugtu: is that the Xorg 7.1 ABI change---or something else?
[02:35] <pitti> Remenic: anyway, if the standard theme would be unf**ed on my laptop, I'd love the world even a bit more ;)
[02:35] <seb128> but theme already are scewed, so one extra screwed part will not make that of a difference
[02:35] <Remenic> pitti: exactly :)
[02:36] <Remenic> seb128: well, this part would hurt even more I think... because a crappy looking button doesn't hurt much, but a progressbar that won't show the progress anymore becomes pretty useless :)
[02:39] <Riddell> Kamion: updating kubuntu-meta all the recommends packages end up removed, is there something I need to update to have them not removed?
[02:39] <seb128> Do people having that issue keep using the theme?
[02:40] <seb128> I would switch to an another theme if that was on my desktop
[02:40] <pitti> I switched long ago for that reason
[02:41] <HiddenWolf> sladen: you're talking to the bot?
[02:42] <Riddell> pitti: any chance of a main inclusion review for python-qt4 before knot 3?
[02:42] <pitti> yes, I think so; I'll do reviews after my lunch
[02:43] <Riddell> mvo: actually my question should probably be for you
[02:43] <pygi> Kamion, you mean someone is actually able to read mkisofs code? :)
[02:44] <Kamion> pygi: heh
[02:45] <Kamion> Riddell: you're only looking at the changelog, right?
[02:45] <Kamion> Riddell: there's an arguable bug in germinate-update-metapackages where changes to entirely new files (*-recommends-* in this case) don't get changelogged
[02:45] <Kamion> Riddell: I bet you'll find that the files are there
[02:45] <Kamion> Riddell: if so, just add a note to the changelog saying that all the above have become Recommends
[02:47] <Riddell> Kamion: yep, -recommends- file are there so I'll upload, thanks
[03:12] <Spads> zul: this ping is merely a thank you for 3.0.2+hg111412-2 and 3.0.2+hg111412-3
[03:12] <Spads> zul: building now...
[03:13] <zul> no problem, you'll have to grab the .config from xen-source-2.6.16
[03:13] <Spads> oh?
[03:14] <zul> yeah the kernel is doing different things now
[03:14] <Spads> ahhhh
[03:14] <zul> i guess i can make a backport for you
[03:14] <Spads> okay, I'll look into it
[03:14] <zul> actually if its amd64 i cant :(
[03:14] <Spads> heh
[03:15] <Spads> it's okay, I just need to finally make my own chroot for Xen builds.  The need for the newer gcc led me to Improper Practices on a shared chroot :)
[03:15] <zul> heh..
[03:18] <Kamion> smurf: ok, keymapper uploaded to Debian
[03:18] <Kamion> smurf: I need to figure out how to make it fast enough to generate a full decision tree for console-setup rather than a drastically reduced one ...
[03:19] <Kamion> but not right now
[03:19] <smurf> Kamion: what are you doing to reduce it?
[03:21] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/packages/edubuntu-artwork-0.1.0$ LC_ALL=C dpkg -S /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-artwork.so
[03:21] <ogra> dpkg: /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-artwork.so not found.
[03:21] <ogra> where is that supposed to come from now ? 
[03:22] <ogra> i think it used to be in the usplash package before
[03:22] <StevenK> I saw a usplash package in the NEW queue
[03:22] <StevenK> usplash- something that is
[03:22] <ivoks> right -theme
[03:22] <ivoks> usplash-ubuntu-theme, IIRC
[03:22] <StevenK> Sounds like it
[03:22] <ogra> argh
[03:22] <ivoks> usplash-theme-ubuntu is right name
[03:23] <ogra> that means i have to ship it in edubuntu just to make a update-alternative call to change it ? 
[03:23] <ogra> thats silly
[03:24] <ogra> no, there is no such package
[03:24] <ogra> in fact there is not even anything that ships the /usr/lib/usplash dir anymore
[03:25] <ogra> ah, in NEW ...
[03:25] <ogra> but still ...
[03:26] <ogra> thats a huge waste ... 2M of pics edubuntu will never use just to set a symling
[03:26] <ogra> *symlink
[03:26] <Kamion> smurf: hardcoding a list of keymaps to look at
[03:26] <Kamion> smurf: basically just the set that console-data provides at the moment
[03:27] <Kamion> ogra: huh?
[03:27] <Kamion> ogra: ship the /usr/lib/usplash directory in your own package if you want to use update-alternatives
[03:27] <Kamion> if you're providing your own usplash theme then of course you do not have to depend on usplash-theme-ubuntu
[03:27] <ogra> well, i still need the original file, dont i ?
[03:27] <Kamion> why?
[03:28] <Kamion> (hint: no)
[03:28] <smurf> Kamion: what's the runtime (reduced vs. full) right now?
[03:28] <ogra> becuse update.alternatives complains ? 
[03:28] <_ion> I just installed edubuntu-artwork-usplash, lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 35 2006-09-11 16:27 /etc/alternatives/usplash-artwork.so -> /usr/lib/usplash/edubuntu-splash.so
[03:28] <ogra> hmm
[03:28] <Kamion> ogra: it's complaining that the *directory* is missing, I'll bet
[03:28] <ogra> right ...
[03:28] <Kamion> ogra: just ship the directory in your package
[03:28] <ogra> silly me
[03:28] <ogra> sorry ... i'm confused :)
[03:28] <Kamion> smurf: not much vs. lots and lots
[03:29] <ogra> _ion, thats still the old one :)
[03:29] <Kamion> smurf: don't have current figures, but I think it's under a minute versus hours
[03:30] <smurf> Yeah, the idea "some characters look substantially the same" causes some (i.e. lots of) recursion when the thing realizes it has painted itself into a corner, but doesn't know how deep the corner is
[03:30] <Kamion> ah. doesn't it do an initial simplify pass to avoid traversing one tree multiple times?
[03:30] <Kamion> one bit of the tree, rather
[03:31] <smurf> Kamion: the best bet to reduce that would be to run the full table once, then assign lower weights to the characters/keys that end up tried first
[03:31] <smurf> Kamion: it does, but only for the "this keyboard is a superset of another" case
[03:32] <Kamion> I think that's deeper into keymapper than I've so far ventured :(
[03:37] <smurf> Kamion: Another way would be to fiddle with the weights assigned to the "which character to try next" decisions so that it doesn't run into the dead end in the first place
[03:38] <smurf> pending some analysis of the trace output -- you'd need to identify the dead end first ;-)
[03:40] <pitti> BenC: btw, thanks for fixing the pcspkr in the latest kernel - nice to have beeps again :)
[03:40] <Hobbsee> hey pitti 
[03:40] <BenC> pitti: hehe, they do come in handy :)
[03:41] <pitti> BenC: (I just closed bug 54657 again)
[03:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54657 in linux-source-2.6.17 "PC speaker does not work any more" [Untriaged,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54657
[03:42] <Kamion> smurf: if you want to try it, I basically built console-setup, ran ckbcomp-mini for all possible layout/variant combinations, dumped all that into a temporary directory, and fed it to gen_keymap
[03:43] <Kamion> smurf: the reason I added gen_keymap --interactive was that I got bored of having to rerun it from scratch all the time ... it doesn't quite work properly though, I think because it doesn't prune the deselected keymaps from points further up the tree
[03:43] <smurf> Kamion: "all possible layout/variant combination" are to be found where?
[03:43] <Kamion> smurf: Keyboard/KeyboardNames.pl
[03:43] <Kamion> smurf: or I think I might have just done it by cutting off the first and second fields from pc105.ekmap
[03:44] <Kamion> (produced by the console-setup build)
[03:44] <Kamion> you get stuff like this:
[03:44] <Kamion> hu:standard::#include hu:102_qwertz_comma_dead
[03:44] <Kamion> hr:alternatequotes::#include ba:alternatequotes
[03:44] <Kamion> tr::#include tr:sundeadkeys
[03:44] <Kamion> ckbcomp-mini knows how to unpack it
[03:45] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:45] <smurf> Kamion: OK -- I'll have a look in a few (I'm being threatened with a short vacation ;-)
[03:45] <Kamion> smurf: yeah, no rush at all, what we have now is basically working I think
[03:45] <Kamion> just thought it was worth mentioning
[03:45] <smurf> Kamion: sure
[04:02] <pitti> Riddell: pyqt4 approved
[04:07] <Riddell> pitti: you rock
[04:07] <pitti> sorry for the delay
[04:07] <bddebian> You should be.. ;-P
[04:07] <Riddell> bddebian: wheesht
[04:07] <bddebian> j/k
[04:08] <Chipzz> heh
[04:08] <Chipzz> why does libgtk2.0-0 depend on libcupsys2?
[04:08] <Chipzz> seb128?
[04:08] <bddebian> Riddell: wheesht?
[04:08] <jdong|laptop> because shlibdeps said so?
[04:08] <pitti> Chipzz: new printing backend of gtk 2.10, I'd presume
[04:09] <seb128> Chipzz: because GTK printing API
[04:10] <pygi> seb128, poke? I saw you was responsible for first libburn package in debian :)
[04:11] <Riddell> Kamion: could you move python-qt4 and its binary packages into main
[04:11] <seb128> pygi: I was?
[04:11] <seb128> was I?
[04:11] <Chipzz> seb128: neither the .la file nor the .pc file mention it, and ldd on the .so doesn't show it either?
[04:11] <pygi> seb128, acording to this, you was: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/libb/libburn/libburn_0.2-2.diff.gz
[04:11] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: it's probably dlopened, then
[04:11] <pitti> Chipzz: then it probably deserves a -Wl,--as-needed
[04:12] <seb128> Chipzz: 
[04:12] <seb128> $ ldd /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/printbackends/libprintbackend-cups.so | grep cups
[04:12] <seb128>         libcups.so.2 => /usr/lib/libcups.so.2 (0x00002b99a5534000)
[04:12] <seb128> $ dpkg -S /usr/lib/libcups.so.2
[04:12] <seb128> libcupsys2: /usr/lib/libcups.so.2
[04:12] <Chipzz> ok, how did I miss that... nevermind
[04:14] <pygi> seb128, you interested in poking at it again? :)
[04:14] <seb128> pygi: I'm waiting for the page to load, looks like my internet has some issues atm
[04:15] <pygi> oki
[04:15] <seb128> not really, I'm sort of busy enough already
[04:15] <seb128> though I'm fine updating the package when there is some new tarballs upstream
[04:15] <seb128> but I'm too busy to code on it or debug issues it might have
[04:15] <pygi> seb128, no tarballs, I want svn checkout
[04:15] <pitti> seb128: you sponsored the upload, nothing more
[04:16] <pygi> ah, that :P
[04:16] <seb128> pitti: ah, that would make sense ;)
[04:16] <seb128> I'm still fine to sponsor updates for it then :p
[04:16] <Q-FUNK> would anyone happen to know which package contains the default Ubuntu usplash theme to go with usplash 0.4?
[04:16] <seb128> or to update to SVN 
[04:16] <pitti> ogra: SCP looks fine to me (haven't tested it, of course, I trust you with that)
[04:16] <pygi> seb128, would be fine if you could update to svn, and we could sync it to ubuntu :)
[04:17] <ogra> yes, it runs :)
[04:17] <ogra> YAY
[04:17] <ogra> pitti, thanks so much
[04:17] <pitti> ogra: what does it do with dbus?
[04:17] <ogra> pitti, there is aq hook script that runs on ltsp sessions so all IPC is done via dbus ...
[04:17] <pitti> ogra: I'd like to take a look at the dbus interface, since it is a privilege transition
[04:17] <sladen> Q-FUNK: {k,ed}ubuntu-artwork-usplash
[04:17] <ogra> i.e. the teacher can execute apps in the users session
[04:18] <pygi> seb128, ah, ignore, some more packages would have to be updated then
[04:18] <Q-FUNK> sladen: I meant for the gnome-based variant
[04:18] <jdong|laptop> ogra: regarding dbus/hal and vmware breakage on edgy, it seems like it's our fault
[04:18] <pygi> we'll just get in "ubuntu only"
[04:18] <jdong|laptop> ogra: i.e. we should've bumped up the sonumber after changing HAL's ABI
[04:18] <ogra> jdong|laptop, ??
[04:18] <pygi> sivang, poke?
[04:18] <ogra> i havent touched either of them :)
[04:18] <jdong|laptop> oh, sorry
[04:18] <pitti> ogra: the hal conf file seems to indicate that only root can send these commands, right?
[04:18] <jdong|laptop> it seems like you're always talking dbus :)
[04:18] <ogra> pitti, yes, only the admin user can use SCP for now
[04:19] <pitti> ogra: that's good
[04:19] <pitti> ogra: that with some gksudo magic should do fine
[04:19] <pygi> sivang, poke?
[04:19] <ogra> SCP sends the exec command on the system bus ... in the LTSP users session sits a listener that waits for the username, and if the username is in the selection it executes the command
[04:19] <Fade> scp from the openssh suite?
[04:19] <pitti> ogra: and sorry for the delay, I was just too busy; I hope it didn't disrupt it too much
[04:19] <Fade> oh, sorry.
[04:19] <pygi> Fade, no :) 
[04:19] <ogra> pitti, totally not
[04:20] <Fade> I was about to inject a 'huh?!' ;)
[04:20] <ogra> as long as its in all is fine :)
[04:20] <sladen> Q-FUNK: the testcard is in usplash itself, the overide will be in 'ubuntu-artwork-usplash' if/when it's uploaded
[04:20] <ogra> Fade, SCP != scp :)
[04:20] <pygi> Fade, student control panel ^_^
[04:20] <jdong|laptop> I think that's a Student control panel :)
[04:20] <ogra> Fade, SCP == Student Control Panel 
[04:20] <fschoep> Mithrandir: ping
[04:21] <jdong|laptop> LOL
[04:21] <ogra> heh
[04:21] <pygi> o joy, three answers :P
[04:21] <Q-FUNK> sladen: right.  which is currently not in the repo.
[04:21] <ogra> pygi, nobody can say our community isnt responsive ;)
[04:21] <Mithrandir> fschoep: hi
[04:21] <pygi> ogra, indeed, hehe :) one could even claim we are OVER responsive ^_^
[04:21] <fschoep> Mithrandir: I had a request for Knot 3
[04:22] <Mithrandir> fschoep: let me her
[04:22] <ogra> seb128, my evo doesnt jump to the next message in the messagelist after i deleted one anymore ...
[04:22] <Mithrandir> hear, even
[04:22] <fschoep> Mithrandir: I want to update three packages slightly
[04:22] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: how long do we have before freeze?
[04:22] <ogra> seb128, i always need to click on one to use my keyboard again
[04:22] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: until after I finish reading email and IRC backlog tomorrow morning.
[04:22] <fschoep> Mithrandir: edgy-gdm-themes, edgy-session-splashes and edgy-wallpapers
[04:22] <Fade> Mithrandir: I updated my bug report.
[04:23] <dholbach> troy_s: heya - did you manage to subscribe ubuntu-art to the art packages?
[04:23] <seb128_> re
[04:23] <Mithrandir> fschoep: well, we're not frozen yet, so if those aren't big disruptive changes, just do it.
[04:23] <fschoep> dholbach: Hi
[04:23] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: right.  when is tommorrow morning - how many hours?
[04:23] <dholbach> hi fschoep
[04:23] <fschoep> Mithrandir: OK, thanks
[04:23] <ogra> seb128_, gah i talked to your ghost :)
[04:23] <ogra> seb128_, my evo doesnt jump to the next message in the messagelist after i deleted one anymore ...
[04:23] <fschoep> dholbach: Can I borrow you for a few seconds later today with updated artwork sources?
[04:23] <seb128_> ogra: dholbach knows about it
[04:23] <ogra> seb128_, i always need to click on one to use my keyboard again
[04:23] <seb128_> he complained about the same
[04:23] <ogra> ah, k 
[04:23] <ogra> then im fine
[04:23] <dholbach> fschoep: sure
[04:23] <seb128_> works fine for me ;)
[04:23] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I'm guessing somewhere in the range of 16-18 hours from now.
[04:24] <fschoep> dholbach: If you can explain to me which runes you enter and what links you click on Launchpad I'd be happy to update stuff myself in the future.
[04:24] <dholbach> ogra: i suffer from the same bug, slomo too
[04:24] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: right, good.  so as long as i get off my lazy rear end, and do some main work between now and then, i'll be fine.  i've been playing in universe again, as i dont have to get sponsors for that.
[04:24] <dholbach> fschoep: update what? the packages? bugs? bzr branches?
[04:24] <seb128_> pygi: have you tried libburn SVN? does it work?
[04:24] <fschoep> dholbach: update the packages
[04:24] <ogra> seb128_, dholbach, i also see a problem if evo ran but my network connection died over night ... evo dies then with a "too many open files" message
[04:25] <pygi> seb128, I'm the upstream, thank you :)
[04:25] <seb128_> ogra: that is weird
[04:25] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: yeah, I'm trying the novel idea of warning people beforehand this time.  Wondering how it works out.
[04:25] <ogra> imaps ...
[04:25] <fschoep> dholbach: BTW, I'm also gathering data for the optipng / pngcrush discussion which I'll probably have completed tonight
[04:25] <seb128_> pygi: I see, you are upstream so it has to work ;)
[04:25] <ogra> well, i guess it opens a file/socket whatever for every mailcheck or something like that
[04:25] <dholbach> fschoep: nice
[04:25] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hehe!   surely it's against the secret, private canonical rules.
[04:25] <seb128_> pygi: I'll do a SVN snapshot then
[04:26] <dholbach> fschoep: I'm going to write a wiki page about that (updating stuff)
[04:26] <pygi> seb128, right, it has to work :)
[04:26] <fschoep> dholbach: that would be so awesome, I really hate to call you for help
[04:26] <dholbach> fschoep: so if people use the art packages as an example to branch from, they'll have an easy life
[04:26] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: well, we're trying not to keep all those discussions in secret -- it just means more work for us in the end.
[04:26] <pygi> seb128, ok, so you package libburn, libisofs, and cdrskin
[04:26] <dholbach> fschoep: don't hate it, do it :-)
[04:26] <fschoep> dholbach: cool, thanks :)
[04:26] <pygi> seb128, libburn and libisofs = 2.0SVN, Cdrskin = 1.5SVN (http://libburn-svn.pykix.org)
[04:27] <pygi> seb128, thank you ^_^
[04:27] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: true that
[04:27] <_ion> Hi q-funk. I think we've met at #altparty.
[04:28] <Q-FUNK> _ion: possible. I've been tere a few times.
[04:28] <pygi> seb128, you'll need quite a lot modifications to packages ^_^
[04:31] <lamont> Kamion / pitti: postfix debconf hasn't changed in ages, afaik
[04:31] <seb128_> pygi: np
[04:31] <pitti> lamont: hmm, curious
[04:31] <ivoks> seb128_: if you are busy, I could work on that (pygi's packages)
[04:32] <seb128_> ivoks: if you want to do it you are welcome, thank you
[04:32] <ivoks> seb128_: ok
[04:32] <pitti> ivoks: that reminds me of the 'Warning: condition is always true' gcc warning :)
[04:32] <ivoks> pitti: :)
[04:32] <Q-FUNK> sladen: the (g)ubuntu splash theme simply isn't released yet, I guess.  thanks for the help anyway :)
[04:32] <ivoks> pitti: i've been quite busy these days with faculty, so I was not much of a help... (this stage will continue whole month :/)
[04:33] <pitti> ivoks: don't worry, uni should have precedence :)
[04:34] <ivoks> pitti: it does :)
[04:40] <carlos> pitti: do you remember that you fixed attr's .pot file to include a valid .po header?
[04:40] <carlos> at least I think you did it for dapper
[04:40] <pitti> carlos: vaguely
[04:40] <carlos> pitti: anyway, Edgy's attr's .pot file lacks a header, are you still in charge of that?
[04:41] <carlos> or should I ping someone else?
[04:41] <pitti> carlos: it probably got lost when we synced with Debian
[04:41] <pitti> carlos: I can fix it again
[04:42] <carlos> pitti: ok, I'm going to file a bug report with you as the assignee
[04:42] <carlos> pitti: thanks
[04:42] <pitti> carlos: hm, I never touched attr as it seems
[04:43] <pitti> carlos: and dapper has an unmodified Debian version
[04:43] <pitti> carlos: I'll fix it anyway
[04:43] <Kamion> Riddell: done
[04:44] <carlos> pitti: ok, hmm, maybe it was acl and I got confused...
[04:44] <carlos> pitti: thanks
[04:44] <pitti> carlos: apparently that was another package -- yes, acl could be it
[04:44] <pitti> carlos: nevermind filing a bug, I'm fixing it right now
[04:45] <carlos> Kamion: btw, I forgot to confirm you that latest debian installer .po and .pot files were uploaded into Rosetta
[04:45] <Kamion> carlos: thanks
[04:45] <Riddell> thanks Kamion 
[04:46] <carlos> pitti: in fact, attr doesn't have translations in Dapper, so you are right, you didn't touch it ;-)
[04:46] <Kamion> ogra: student-control-panel promoted
[04:46] <Kamion> tseng: wv promoted
[04:46] <carlos> pitti: ok
[04:51] <pitti> carlos: fixed attr package uploaded
[04:51] <carlos> pitti: thanks
[04:54] <pitti> freeflying: ping
[04:55] <pitti> freeflying: do you have any idea about bug 47597?
[04:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47597 in language-support-zh "doesn't display chinese properly" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47597
[05:02] <ogra> *thumbs too
[05:02] <ogra> Kamion, could you demote blender so motu has a chance to get an UVF exception through for it ? 
[05:03] <ogra> (was dropped from edubuntu-desktop a while ago)
[05:03] <Kamion> ogra: done
[05:03] <ogra> thanks :)
[05:03] <ogra> lfittl, ^^^^
[05:05] <elmo> I don't suppose I could convince anyone to cowboy swap xvncviewer for xvnc4viewer in main?
[05:05] <elmo> even in dapper, the gnome TSC programs works (as well as it does) with both
[05:06] <lfittl> ogra: ah perfect, finally :)
[05:06] <ogra> :)
[05:08] <zul> hey simon
[05:08] <sfllaw> zul: Hey.
[05:08] <sfllaw> How was your weekend?
[05:08] <zul> good...went to a baby show
[05:10] <mvo_> Riddell: the kubuntu-meta package needs a small patch to fully support the recommends stuff, I can do it and send it to you if you it is still a issue (sorry for my late reply)
[05:11] <Riddell> mvo_: please
[05:11] <mvo_> Riddell: give me 5min
[05:15] <ivoks> i know i'm asking too much...
[05:15] <ivoks> but, could it be possible to implement graylisting for @ubuntu.com? :)
[05:16] <pygi> Mithrandir, poke?
[05:16] <pitti> Riddell, seb128: fresh new edgy langpacks, can you please test them?
[05:17] <Riddell> pitti: URL/
[05:17] <Riddell> ?
[05:17] <pitti> deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/edgy/ ./
[05:18] <ivoks> pitti: bug 55828
[05:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55828 in cupsys "PJL output from 1.2.2 client over IPP" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55828
[05:18] <ivoks> pitti: could it be possible to implement that patch? I know 1.2.3 is out, but due it's bugs, I would rather wait for 1.2.4 :)
[05:20] <wasabi__> So why the tmpfs for restricted modules?
[05:20] <wasabi__> I don't get the reason.
[05:20] <pitti> ivoks: ah, that means it's fixed in edgy, but needs a dapper backport?
[05:20] <ivoks> pitti: right
[05:21] <ivoks> pitti: but don't backport 1.2.3 yet
[05:21] <pitti> I know, there are some regressions
[05:21] <ivoks> pitti: it has nasy 100% CPU consume bug, which isn't fixed yet
[05:21] <ivoks> ok
[05:21] <pitti> ivoks: there is a patch upstream, btw
[05:21] <ivoks> is it?
[05:21] <pitti> but I didn't see the issue yet, thus I didn't patch
[05:21] <ivoks> i didn't check ML for couple of days
[05:22] <pitti> ivoks: http://www.cups.org/str.php?L1968
[05:22] <pitti> ivoks: if you get the issue, can you please test and reply upstream?
[05:22] <ivoks> i can test that right now
[05:24] <pitti> ivoks: I updated bug 55828 accordingly, now needs mdz's blessing
[05:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55828 in cupsys "PJL output from 1.2.2 client over IPP" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55828
[05:24] <ivoks> ok
[05:26] <pitti> ivoks: (asked mdz in the bug for approval)
[05:31] <ogra> mvo_, does that apply to edubuntu-meta as well ? 
[05:31] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: langpacks seem to work well for me
[05:32] <pitti> mvo_: is there a way to tell apt-get to not install recommends when I try apt-get install ubuntu-desktop?
[05:32] <mvo_> ogra: yes, if you want to use recommends, then yes. I can send you a debdiff (or just upload it)
[05:32] <mvo_> pitti: yes, but only hackish
[05:32] <ogra> mvo_, as you like ...
[05:33] <mvo_> pitti: yeah I know. only hackish
[05:33] <mvo_> pitti: do you want to the hackish one?
[05:33] <pitti> sure
[05:33] <pitti> I'd like to have -desktop installed again, but without the auxiliary stuff I don't want
[05:34] <mvo_> pitti: apt-get install ubuntu-desktop -o APT::Install-Recommends-Section="none"
[05:35] <pitti> that's not quite as hackish as I feared :)
[05:35] <pitti> mvo_: however, it makes no difference; it still wants to install bug-buddy and mono sttuff
[05:36] <ogra> is mono already recommends ? 
[05:36] <Riddell> pitti: langpacks work, but still the stock strings lacking in KDE which I need to look at (probably my fault)
[05:36] <seb128> pitti: language pack update looks good to me too
[05:36] <ogra> pitti, it shouldnt install gnome-screensaver thats for sure a recommends
[05:36] <pitti> Riddell, seb128: thanks; thus good to upload?
[05:36] <seb128> as far as I'm concerned it's good to upload yep ;)
[05:36] <pitti> ogra: well, I have that installed :)
[05:36] <ogra> heh
[05:36] <ogra> as anyone :)
[05:37] <Riddell> pitti: yep
[05:37] <mvo_> pitti: I will have a look (once I finished kubuntu-meta)
[05:39] <pitti> mvo_: oh, f-spot and bug-buddy are still depends, thus not your fault
[05:40] <mvo_> pitti: aha, ok. I guess changing the seeds is ok for this
[05:40] <mvo_> Riddell: do you want a debdiff or should I upload the changes?
[05:41] <Riddell> mvo_: debdiff would be nice, I have an update pending anyway
[05:41] <mvo_> ok
[05:44] <mvo_> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23136 <- should be what you need 
[05:44] <Riddell> mvo_: worth pinging ogra and xubuntu with that too?
[05:45] <mvo_> Riddell: absolutely!
[05:45] <mvo_> ogra: I have a update for you too :) shall I send it or upload it? (upload without any other modifications)
[05:46] <ogra> upload is fine ... as you like 
[05:46] <ogra> if it causes extra work for you, just send it to me
[05:47] <mvo_> ogra: no, that is fine. I uploaded it now, please let me know if it works (should pick up recommends automatically when you do your next seed change and use " * (pkgname)" instead of  the regular " * pkgname"
[05:48] <ogra> yup, i already merged the seed changes ...
[05:49] <mvo_> ogra: ah, nice! my upload was without runing ./update because I was not sure about this
[05:49] <mvo_> note that germinate does not yet get the changelog right, it may write funny stuff like "removed foo; added foo" 
[05:49] <ogra> i'll do the update ... need to add SCP to desktop anyway ...
[05:50] <ogra> well, it looks right in ubuntu-meta 
[05:50] <mvo_> ogra: because I ran a "querry-replace" over it *cough* 
[05:50] <ogra> heh
[05:53] <Kamion> mvo_: I fixed that
[05:54] <Kamion> it'll say "added foo to desktop-recommends-i386" or whatever now
[05:54] <mvo_> Kamion: oh, great! 
[05:54] <Kamion> however it still won't list the additions to the new file the first time you add recommends
[05:54] <Kamion> you can probably work around that by touching all the *-recommends-*
[05:54] <Kamion> first
[06:57] <pitti> how can it be that both i386 buildds are idling around when there are a bazillion langpacks waiting to be built?
[06:58] <pitti> well, now they at least build something
[06:59] <Kamion> pitti: I've accepted usplash-theme-ubuntu straight into main, FYI; I assumed it was at least conceptually a split-out from usplash
[06:59] <pitti> sounds sensible, thanks
[07:10] <tseng> Kamion: thanks alot
[07:10] <tseng> Kamion: will upload beagle when i get home
[07:11] <ogra> Kamion, edubuntu can default to dhcp network setup again btw ... 
[07:11] <ogra> we should change that before release ...
[07:19] <Kamion> ogra: please file a bug on /products/ubuntu-cdimage telling me what to do
[07:20] <ogra> ok
[07:28] <mdz> pitti: does apport display a progress indicator now?
[07:29] <ogra> bug buddy does ...
[07:29] <mdz> pitti: and what do you plan to do about interaction with the gnome segv handler?
[07:32] <pitti> mdz: progress> how should apport do this?
[07:33] <pitti> mdz: bug-buddy> I asked seb128, and he prefers to keep bug-buddy installed by default
[07:33] <mdz> pitti: isn't the slow part basically dpkg -S?
[07:33] <pitti> mdz: yes, about half of that time is used by dpkg -S
[07:33] <pitti> mdz: but apport is called by the kernel, not from the user's session, thus it would be quite hackish to display a progress bar
[07:34] <mdz> pitti: is there nothing running in the session that it could send a message to?
[07:34] <mdz> pitti: maybe not a progress bar, but just a notification
[07:34] <mdz> "A program has crashed, information is being collected" or such
[07:35] <pitti> mdz: we could try a update-notifier hack
[07:35] <pitti> mdz: basically we don't even need to change apport for that
[07:35] <Treenaks> and: is the 'OOPS' when you kill apport intentional?
[07:35] <pitti> mdz: the 0-byte report is created, then apport collects, finally the file is completed
[07:35] <pitti> mdz: but apport now runs with nice 5, thus should be much less disturbing
[07:35] <pitti> Treenaks: ?
[07:36] <mdz> pitti: given that it takes some time to create the report, I think we should display something immediately
[07:36] <Treenaks> pitti: I've had a few kernel OOPSes when killing apport
[07:36] <Treenaks> pitti: (as apport was hogging memory/cpu, and I didn't have a clue about what it was..)
[07:36] <pitti> Treenaks: that's news to me, can you please file a kernel bug?
[07:36] <mdz> pitti: in my experience it seems I/O bound, so scheduling priority doesn't make much of a difference
[07:36] <pitti> mdz: in my experiments it behaves much better
[07:36] <mdz> but I haven't seen it run in a while
[07:37] <pitti> mdz: previously it made the desktop session sluggish, music playback stuttering, etc.
[07:37] <pitti> now it's smooth as silk
[07:37] <pitti> mdz: I'll discuss that with mvo, if you want that feature
[07:37] <agutierr> hello all: someone knows if its possible to reuse a partition table using preseeds? Thanks :-)
[07:37] <seb128> mdz: I've added a gconf-key (/apps/bug-buddy/run_on_crash) for bug-buddy, if it's set to false the gnome_segv handler is not set
[07:38] <mdz> seb128: so we can set that to false by default?
[07:38] <seb128> we can yep
[07:38] <seb128> I advice not doing so
[07:38] <seb128> since we don't get automatic debug bt yet
[07:39] <pitti> seb128: do we with b-b?
[07:39] <seb128> and we don't have the workface to handle the hundreds of crashers week that we would get
[07:39] <seb128> pitti: no, that's my point, we would not won anything and increase the workload a lot
[07:39] <seb128> s/won/win
[07:39] <pitti> ah, I see
[07:40] <seb128> my opinion will probably change the day we get debug backtraces for everything
[07:40] <seb128> there we will win a lot over bug-buddy
[07:40] <Treenaks> pitti: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+bug/59935
[07:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59935 in linux-source-2.6.17 "OOPS when killing apport" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[07:41] <seb128> pitti: did you fix the coredump limit issue BTW?
[07:41] <seb128> like evolution bt would work now?
[07:41] <pitti> seb128: oh, not yet; can you please file a bug so that I don't forget?
[07:41] <pitti> Treenaks: I believe today's version (0.20) should fix/workaround this
[07:42] <pitti> 'k, I gotta run now
[07:42] <pitti> cu tomorrow!
[07:42] <Treenaks> Bye
[07:42] <seb128> pitti: linux bog?
[07:43] <kristog> uh cool i get MD5Sum mismatch if i use the universe repo of it.archive.ubuntu.com.
[07:59] <o_cee> anyone got any idea about Bug #59691, "vmware-player fails to start"? got a similar crash here when i try to start, the only thing it writes to the console is: "/usr/lib/vmware-player/bin/vmplayer: /usr/lib/vmware-player/lib/libpng12.so.0/libpng12.so.0: no version information available (required by /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2)"
[07:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59691 in vmware-player "vmware-player fails to start" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59691
[08:00] <seb128> o_cee: mvo_ might have an idea
[08:01] <o_cee> seb128: ok, we'll wait for him then :)
[08:01] <Burgwork> seb128, desrt was mumbling someting about a dbus issue
[08:01] <mvo_> o_cee: this only happens on edgy, right?
[08:01] <seb128> Burgwork: something specific?
[08:01] <o_cee> mvo_: don't have any machine with dapper, but i'm on edgy yes
[08:01] <Burgwork> seb128, something about being linked to 2 and 3 at the same time?
[08:02] <mvo_> o_cee: ok, thanks
[08:02] <o_cee> mvo_: no problem. let me know if you need more info or whatever, got a generated crash report as well
[08:02] <jdong_> o_cee: does the LD_PRELOAD workaround work for you?
[08:03] <o_cee> jdong: point me in the right direction please? haven't seen that 
[08:03] <jdong_> o_cee: LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libdbus-1.so.3 vmplayer
[08:03] <o_cee> sec
[08:04] <seb128> Burgwork: not sure of what he was speaking but thank you for mentionning it
[08:04] <seb128> Burgwork: ah, was about vmplayer?
[08:04] <o_cee> jdong: seems like it yes, it started at least
[08:04] <jdong_> o_cee: cool; there's a dupe bug report with more info
[08:05] <jdong_> bug 59232
[08:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59232 in hal "libhal1 0.5.7.1-0ubuntu8 with new dbus breaks vmware" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59232
[08:05] <o_cee> jdong: cool, thanks. probably the same as the other bug i mentioned
[08:05] <jdong_> yep
[08:06] <jdong_> the png warning is not the real warning
[08:06] <Burgwork> seb128, yep. He was looking into the oo.o crashing issue and said "this solves the vmplayer issue as well". He said nothing further and I didn;t question
[08:06] <jdong_> just a throw-off
[08:06] <jdong_> Burgwork: the OOo crash is related to the vmplayer issue?
[08:06] <Burgwork> jdong, no idea, again, this is 2nd hand. Check the logs for saturday or sunday
[08:07] <jdong_> gasp!
[08:07] <jdong_> it works!
[08:14] <zyga> hey
[08:15] <Burgwork> mark si the on the front page of cnn http://edition.cnn.com/
[08:16] <tseng> whoa
[08:16] <tseng> where..
[08:16] <Burgwork> left, little box
[08:17] <Burgwork> also first story on their tech section
[08:17] <zul> http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/09/11/space.tourist.microsoft.reut/index.html
[08:18] <zul> still old picture though
[08:18] <Burgwork> space is cool
[08:18] <Burgwork> linux is not
[08:19] <zyga> Burgwork: that's right, linux is hot and it's way to cold in space :D
[08:20] <Burgwork> heh
[08:21] <Keybuk> In space, nobody can hear you run closed-source products.
[08:21] <zyga> Keybuk: yes they can, vista startup sound is getting mandatory, at least co-workers in the space shuttle or the ISS would know ;D
[08:23] <Burgwork> zyga, does that mean, when the shuttle launches, the noise will be overpowered by a massive windows login tune?
[08:24] <zyga> Burgwork: now it makes sense why the launch platform is so far away from casual viewers
[08:24] <Burgwork> right
[08:25] <zyga> microsoft would have to pay for running the sound on national tv
[08:27] <bluefoxicy> you know what would be nice
[08:27] <bluefoxicy> all this talk about zeroconf and avahi, how about mdnsing a package server
[08:28] <bluefoxicy> once you enable avahi, you find that -updates and -security for any distribution you're running has multiple mirrors on your network
[08:28] <bluefoxicy> and when you update, they all communicate, determine who has the package, mirrors it across eachother; if it's not there it's downloaded from the main server and streamed to whoever else wants a copy at the time
[08:29] <bluefoxicy> network of 5 billion PCs?  No need to clog the point of presence link
[08:29] <jdong_> Keybuk: any chance for updated readahead-lists in time for knot3?
[08:31] <CarlFK> bluefoxicy: we need apt-torrent :)
[08:31] <bluefoxicy> (I would not mind such a server being set up as a proxy either, mind)
[08:31] <bluefoxicy> CarlFK: Nah, I mean organizational.
[08:32] <bluefoxicy> At a school district they decided to install winxp sp2
[08:32] <zyga> bluefoxicy: hmm?
[08:32] <zyga> bluefoxicy: apt-mdns?
[08:32] <zyga> bluefoxicy: is there such a thing already?
[08:32] <bluefoxicy> so somene decided, hey, send all 1000000 PCs to windowsupdate
[08:32] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  no clue!  :)
[08:32] <zyga> bluefoxicy: that would be kind of cool :)
[08:32] <bluefoxicy> anyway, what happened was, for 3 days there was no internet.  The pipes were totally clogged.
[08:33] <jdong> bluefoxicy: hasn't anyone thought of putting up a caching proxy? :)
[08:33] <zyga> I don't know much about bonjour/avahi but I guess it's perfectly possible
[08:33] <zyga> the workstation would have to publish an ubuntu mirror service and apt could somehow sniff that
[08:33] <bluefoxicy> And I am thinking, with apt, you could have deb http://10.1.1.11/ubuntu edgy-security main restricted
[08:33] <CarlFK> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/admin/apt-proxy
[08:33] <bluefoxicy> and then when you contact the web server it'll proxy through it yeah, and cache it
[08:34] <bluefoxicy> except at home you may have 3 computers in bedrooms and 2 laptops, and you won't set up an apt-proxy yourself
[08:34] <CarlFK> "apt-proxy automatically builds a Debian HTTP mirror based on requests which pass through the proxy.  It's great for multiple Debian machines on the same network with a slower internet link."
[08:34] <bluefoxicy> which is where an apt-mdns would come in
[08:34] <bluefoxicy> CarlFK: mmhmm.
[08:35] <bluefoxicy> CarlFK:  the automation would be good for home users though, who don't normally do anything but click "update"
[08:35] <jdong> apt-proxy is great...
[08:36] <jdong> if you have more than one edgy box on a lan, it's a requirement :)
[08:36] <jdong> only thing, needs that dedicated apt-proxy server
[08:36] <jdong> and sources.list editing
[08:36] <bluefoxicy> (I want something that can be around by default and working automatically for everyone using Ubuntu, though)
[08:36] <jdong> not to mention it's damn inconvenient if you have a laptop that can roam onto a apt-proxy-less network
[08:36] <jdong> so yeah, bluefoxicy, make apt-avahi happen :)
[08:36] <jdong> aptvahi
[08:36] <jdong> there you go
[08:36] <bluefoxicy> heh
[08:36] <jdong> a name for it
[08:37] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  Maybe after I get Steel finished.
[08:38] <Keybuk> jdong: depends when the Knot 3 freeze begins
[08:39] <Keybuk> I want to take some time to actually play a little with readahead again
[08:39] <Keybuk> do some test runs and see what effect different tests have on it
[08:39] <jdong> Keybuk: awesome
[08:39] <Keybuk> (e.g. sorting it by block at boot, not at generation time
[08:39] <jdong> Keybuk: yes!
[08:39] <Keybuk> running it in the foreground, not the background
[08:39] <Keybuk> etc.)
[08:39] <bddebian> Man, I read readahead as something else.. Heh.. ;-)
[08:39] <jdong> thank you!
[08:39] <Keybuk> and I obviously want it to be tested on the live cd and real system, etc
[08:39] <Keybuk> that's a few days work
[08:40] <jdong> Keybuk: at the forums, there's mixed results from reprofiling their systems
[08:40] <jdong> Keybuk: most people reported 5 or more seconds better bootup
[08:40] <jdong> Keybuk: some reported no change
[08:40] <jdong> Keybuk: I just posted a follow-up asking for daring people to test foregrounding readahead... will let you know how that turns out
[08:40] <jdong> but from that, I think definitely reordering deserves a look :)
[08:41] <Keybuk> jdong: did anyone report worse?
[08:41] <jdong> Keybuk: nope. that's the good news :)
[08:41] <Keybuk> that's good, at least
[08:42] <jdong> Keybuk: but I'd expect maybe a "worse" report or two from foregrounding
[08:42] <zyga> Keybuk: hey, does X die moment after login due to upstarf
[08:42] <zyga> upstart?
[08:42] <jdong> zyga: I read that as upsnarf :P.... good nickname for when it fails :)
[08:42] <CarlFK> is there a right way to draw attention to a bug report?
[08:42] <zyga> jdong: I was not trying to be mean 
[08:42] <zyga> CarlFK: bounty
[08:42] <Keybuk> zyga: no
[08:43] <jdong> CarlFK: I usually whine about it :)
[08:43] <Keybuk> zyga: at least, there's no reason it should
[08:43] <jdong> zyga: gdm or kdm?
[08:43] <zyga> Keybuk: X sigsegvs regularly about 5 seconds after logging in on ati driver
[08:43] <zyga> gdm
[08:43] <zyga> radeon X300
[08:43] <Keybuk> oh, that'd be the driver at fault then, no? :p
[08:43] <CarlFK> edgy alternate and server aren't installing, which seems pretty bad: Bug #59938
[08:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59938 in debian-installer "edgy alternate installer: No kernel modules were found" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59938
[08:43] <zyga> Keybuk: well it didn't used to :-)
[08:43] <Keybuk> upstart can't magically induce segfaults in proprietary drivers <g>
[08:44] <jdong> Keybuk: that's an open source driver, thank you very much :)
[08:44] <zyga> Keybuk: note: ati != fglrx
[08:44] <zyga> :)
[08:44] <jdong> and for the record, my fglrx is running gdm just fine :)
[08:44] <Keybuk> nor open source ones
[08:44] <zyga> bah, I know I want to buy intel next time
[08:44] <Keybuk> upstart can be blamed for something not starting
[08:44] <zyga> now after intel both ati and nvidia are just crap 
[08:44] <Keybuk> it is not responsible for your fonts looking funny
[08:44] <zyga> Keybuk: okay I got the message
[08:45] <Keybuk> (yes, someone really thought upstart had caused that)
[08:45] <zyga> Keybuk: heh
[08:45] <zyga> Keybuk: I just remember you saying that upstart pulled VT from X and that was kind of deadly
[08:45] <zyga> Keybuk: BTW, why does VT gets killed twice during startup?
[08:46] <jdong> zyga: you should be looking at blaming usplash for that :)
[08:46] <Keybuk> zyga: no idea
[08:46] <Keybuk> which vt?
[08:46] <zyga> Keybuk: anything I can set to make upstart much verbose
[08:46] <zyga> Keybuk: tty[1-6] 
[08:46] <Keybuk> boot with --debug on the kernel command-line
[08:46] <zyga> Keybuk: will do, it happens at work
[08:47] <zyga> for some reason it didn't affect my laptop at home
[08:49] <bluefoxicy> is it just me or does Planner have no native file extension
[08:51] <Kamion> CarlFK: shrug, probably transient
[08:51] <Kamion> that error message is symptomatic of mid-transition images
[08:52] <CarlFK> Kamion: ok - I'll try again in 24 hours 
[08:52] <Kamion> oh, it's because debian-installer failed to build
[08:53] <Kamion> infinity: could you give-back debian-installer on all architectures, please? those build failures look transient
[09:29] <frandavid100> hi
[09:29] <frandavid100> I'd like to ask a question
[09:30] <frandavid100> is there a chance to pack a given program to use tango icons even if that's not the default?
[09:30] <frandavid100> I'm thinking gaim, or gimp
[09:35] <glatzor> frandavid100: you should contact the artwork team
[09:35] <frandavid100> how could I do that?
[09:36] <zyga> frandavid100: #ubuntu-artwork is there but I don't know how occupied it is
[09:36] <zyga> frandavid100: try the mailing list
[09:37] <glatzor> frandavid100: or subscribe to the mailing list. you could push your wish if you already have got a patch or a plan
[09:37] <frandavid100> thanks a lot guys
[09:38] <glatzor> frandavid100: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu this site is a good starting point
[09:40] <Mithrandir> pygi: hi
[09:45] <pygi> hi Mithrandir 
[09:48] <Mithrandir> pygi: you pinged me?
[09:49] <pygi> Mithrandir, just wondering how your student(s) passed SoC
[09:50] <Mithrandir> pygi: not very well, I'm afraid.
[09:50] <pygi> Mithrandir, ahm? :-/
[09:51] <Burgwork> Mithrandir, ajmitch keeps promising me updates for the UWN, but so far nothing
[09:51] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: well, SoC is over now anyway so whatever is done now, though nice, can't affect those evaluations.
[10:02] <pygi> Mithrandir, so he failed the final eval?
[10:47] <Keybuk> my god, this md guy is so pessimistic
[10:48] <kristog> Keybuk: why?
[10:48] <Keybuk> it's a bit "it's all doomed, it can't possibly fixed, it'll never work"
[10:49] <Burgwork> Keybuk, md?
[10:49] <Keybuk> uh, md != marco in this case <g>
[10:50] <Keybuk> mdadm
[10:50] <Lure> Keybuk: neil brown?
[10:50] <Keybuk> bug #54002
[10:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54002 in udev "LVM/MD root filesystem not found by uuid" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54002
[11:01] <desrt> wow.  this bug has a lot of commentary
[11:09] <seb128> Keybuk: is xdg-utils binary stucked to NEW?
[11:18] <xav> will 2.6.18 go in when released?
[11:18] <seb128> no
[11:18] <seb128> 2.6.17 for edgy
[11:30] <xav> I would still like to see this bug, kernel-package needs to be updated for working with 2.6.18-rc kernel, so probably 2.6.18 as well.
[11:30] <xav> to see this bug fixed, even
[11:31] <mdz> Kamion: around?
[11:47] <fschoep> Does anyone know whether or not the Firefox Human theme is going to be included and set to be default for Knot 3?