[06:53] <sdfsaedcjhm> hi
[06:54] <sdfsaedcjhm> someone here?
[12:34] <dholbach> @now gmt
[12:34] <dholbach> @schedule berlin
[12:34] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 14:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board
[12:34] <dholbach> @schedule gmt
[12:34] <dholbach> hmhmhmmhmh
[12:34] <Fujitsu> UTC, perhaps?
[12:34] <Fujitsu> @now utc
[12:34] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 13 2006, 10:34:51 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 9 hours 25 minutes
[12:34] <Fujitsu> GMT is old!
[12:37] <dholbach> i know it is - somebody referred to a gmt time
[02:30] <jono> hi all
[02:34] <highvoltage> hi jono 
[02:34] <jono> hey highvoltage 
[02:34] <jono> does this chan grab its event details from the fridge calendar?
[02:35] <highvoltage> depends on your definition of grab
[02:35] <highvoltage> the bot does
[02:35] <highvoltage> @schedule
[02:35] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 20:00: Technical Board
[02:35] <highvoltage> ^^^ that comes from the fridge
[02:35] <jono> right
[02:35] <jono> so to add an event, I add it to the fridge
[02:35] <highvoltage> ooh, ok, seems that the topic is also set by ubotu
[02:35] <highvoltage> yes, that's the way to go
[02:36] <jono> ok cool
[02:36] <jono> if only the fridge guys were alive right now :P
[02:36] <highvoltage> :)
[02:36] <highvoltage> they are frozen like dr evil
[02:36] <ogra> just mail fridge-devel
[02:44] <Hobbsee> jono: just email fridge-devel - they add it pretty quickly
[02:44] <jono> well, I am a fridge editor, I just want someone else to confirm its OK to include :)
[02:51] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:51] <Hobbsee> yeah
[04:32] <Seveas> yeah
[04:32] <Seveas> jono, !
[04:33] <jono> CyberKing, pong
[04:33] <jono> yeah its 2pm UTC
[04:33] <jono> I updated the time, just needs refreshing
[04:34] <Seveas> @topic
[04:35] <Seveas> hmm, fridge still says 15:00
[04:35] <Seveas> (@topic forces a refresh)
[04:35] <Seveas> odd
[04:36] <Seveas> @reload Webcal
[04:37] <Seveas> jono, the website says the correct time, the iCal feed not
[04:37] <jono> Seveas, ahhh
[04:37] <Seveas> DTSTART;VALUE=DATE-TIME:20060918T150000Z
[04:37] <Seveas> DTEND;VALUE=DATE-TIME:20060918T160000Z
[04:39] <Seveas> we can
[04:39] <Seveas> but ubugtu will hate you and restore it
[04:39] <Seveas> ;)
[04:40] <Seveas> see =)
[04:40] <Seveas> yes
[04:46] <dholbach> he programs thing to hate people
[04:47] <Seveas> jono, the ical feed is still bad, now says noon UTC
[04:47] <Seveas> DTSTART;VALUE=DATE-TIME:20060919T120000Z
[04:47] <Seveas> DTEND;VALUE=DATE-TIME:20060919T140000Z
[04:47] <Seveas> on the 19th 
[04:48] <jono> Seveas, it must be broken
[04:48] <Seveas> I think so
[04:48] <jono> any idea who maintains it ?
[04:48] <Seveas> ah, wait, I looked at the wrong event
[04:48] <Seveas> it's still wrong, though
[04:49] <jono> :(
[04:49] <Seveas> I though the fridge software maintained the feed?
[04:50] <Seveas> so you should slap some fridge editors
[04:55] <jono> I will indeed slap
[05:06] <Seveas> @now Tehran
[05:06] <Ubugtu> Current time in Asia/Tehran: September 13 2006, 19:36:44 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 4 hours 53 minutes
[09:12] <highvoltage> @schedule johannesburg
[09:12] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 Sep 16:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 14:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:58] <pips1_> hi cbx33 and AliasVegas
[09:59] <cbx33> hi pips1_ 
[09:59] <pygi> Hello everyone ^_^
[09:59] <sharkybaby> hello
[10:00] <RichEd> hello
[10:00] <pips1_> hi everybody
[10:00] <AliasVegas> Hi pips1_
[10:01] <cbx33> evenin all
[10:01] <cbx33> boo ogra 
[10:01] <highvoltage> hi!
[10:01] <ogra> bee
[10:01] <pips1_> cbx33 ?
[10:01] <cbx33> pips1_, what ?
[10:01] <cbx33> I was trying to scare ogra ;)
[10:01] <pips1_> boo?
[10:02] <pips1_> :)
[10:02] <ogra> i'm to happy to get scared by anything :)
[10:02] <sharkybaby> :)
[10:02] <pygi> ogra, nice ^_^
[10:02] <cbx33> oversized CD images ?
[10:03] <ogra> nope
[10:03] <highvoltage> last I heard was 698MB? :)
[10:03] <ogra> all fine
[10:03] <ogra> lots of bugs
[10:03] <ogra> but the install works
[10:03] <cbx33> oh dear
[10:03] <cbx33> excellent
[10:03] <cbx33> I'm just installing now
[10:03] <ogra> usplash looks funny .. -35 didnt make it on the CD it seems
[10:03] <cbx33> :(
[10:04] <LaserJock> ogra: will we need to do some trimming before final for size?
[10:04] <cbx33> what about the other artwork?
[10:04] <ogra> it has the wrong res but the progress bar sits at the right place
[10:04] <cbx33> I'm looking forward to see what it looks like
[10:04] <cbx33> LaserJock, !!!!
[10:05] <LaserJock> what
[10:05] <cbx33> hi dude !
[10:05] <LaserJock> what did I do?
[10:05] <LaserJock> oh
[10:05] <ogra> well, the background is moved 1/3 down and 1/3 to the right
[10:05] <cbx33> just saying an enthsiastic Hi!
[10:05] <cbx33> oh
[10:05] <ogra> is RichEd here ?
[10:05] <LaserJock> ok, I think I was more scared then ogra
[10:05] <RichEd> yep
[10:05] <ogra> and rodarvus ? 
[10:06] <ogra> yeah, that was my worst day today
[10:06] <cbx33> ogra, did you get everything done
[10:06] <ogra> i have to get up in 5h for travelling and didnt even remotely belive i could get knot3 done 
[10:06] <ogra> ok
[10:06] <ogra> TECH UPDATE  !!!
[10:06] <cbx33> must be a biggie
[10:06] <ogra> we have something that looks like knot 3 :)
[10:06] <cbx33> its in capitols
[10:07] <sbalneav> Hello hello
[10:07] <ogra> there are plenty of bugs in it but with patiency it installs
[10:07] <ogra> i'll set up a known issues page and add it to the channel topic (as usual)
[10:07] <ogra> some things dont work at all, some are easily solveable ...
[10:07] <cbx33> cool
[10:08] <ogra> nothing that makes me anxious for release
[10:08] <cbx33> ;)
[10:08] <ogra> for some of the ltsp bugs i'll have the best ppl around me the next days :)
[10:08] <cbx33> you done good ogra my man
[10:08] <ogra> sbalneav, i'd like to look into the lp_server and the mknbi issues ... and like to test the floppy stuff with you the next days
[10:09] <ogra> hesy rodarvus 
[10:09] <ogra> *hey too
[10:09] <RichEd> ogra: lets hope they "release" your laptop from the baggage hold for the hack-fest
[10:09] <ogra> as long as i get it back its all fine ... i'll do a complete /home backup tonight before i go to bed
[10:09] <sbalneav> ogra: I'm here sitting in LTSP headquarters right now :)
[10:09] <cbx33> RichEd, don't even joke
[10:09] <ogra> sbalneav, me too in 24h ;)
[10:10] <sbalneav> I should apply for Edubuntu status one of these days :)
[10:10] <pygi> sbalneav, you do understand we have to talk about iscsi, right? :)
[10:10] <ogra> sbalneav, you already applied for edubuntu-member if i saw that right
[10:10] <sbalneav> I've volunteered with HedgeMage to help bring the LTSP section of the Handbook up to date.
[10:10] <cbx33> sbalneav, nice ;)
[10:11] <highvoltage> he just didn't add his name to EdubuntuMeetingAgnda yet
[10:11] <LaserJock> tsk tsk
[10:11] <ogra> so its just a matter of making a wikipage and adding your contributions ... then the next EC meeting can approve you
[10:11] <rodarvus> hi there
[10:11] <sbalneav> Did I?  I can't remember.
[10:11] <highvoltage> hi rodarvus 
[10:11] <sbalneav> pygi: We'll have a chance over the next few days.  Ogra will be here with me, we can be in irc and chat.
[10:11] <ogra> sbalneav, and be sure, you have my vote already ;)
[10:11] <cbx33> If I could vote I would
[10:11] <LaserJock> ogra: did you fix scp deps so edubuntu-desktop doesn't install ltsp-server? :-)
[10:12] <ogra> sbalneav, i have to cncentrate on edgy ... lets rather see that pygi comes to mountain view ;)
[10:12] <sbalneav> Ah, good plan.
[10:12] <RichEd> I will chat to highvoltage tomorrow.
[10:12] <ogra> RichEd, a wikipage that lists your contributions
[10:12] <ogra> thast about all
[10:12] <RichEd> okay
[10:12] <cbx33> what about the 3 liner?
[10:13] <cbx33> ;)
[10:13] <ogra> ok, thats all from my tech side, i feel pretty exhausted but happy ... i didnt belive in knot 3 anymore as i said ...
[10:13] <LaserJock> \o/ for Knot 3
[10:14] <cbx33> ;)
[10:14] <ogra> if someone else likes to lead the rest of the meeting i could do the wikipage for known issues ... in fact i'll just add it to the testing page
[10:14] <cbx33> ogra, well done dude
[10:14] <highvoltage> \/
[10:14] <sbalneav> Hey, am I still supposed to get the test pattern on bootup?  I keep seeing updates to usplash-artwork, but nothing ever changes?
[10:14] <RichEd> as usual, a round of applause for Oliver and his untiring dedication.
[10:14] <highvoltage> eek, where's my head
[10:14] <LaserJock> highvoltage: you were so excited you lost it
[10:15] <ogra> sbalneav, edubuntu-artwork -35 should fix that 
[10:15] <LaserJock> \o/
[10:15] <LaserJock>  /\
[10:15] <cbx33> hehe
[10:15] <highvoltage> hiehie
[10:15] <sharkybaby> nice man, man hehe
[10:16] <cbx33> Whos taking the lead then?
[10:16] <cbx33> heheh
[10:16] <sbalneav> :D\-<
[10:16] <sbalneav> :D|-<
[10:16] <sbalneav> :D/-<
[10:16] <RichEd> just loading the agenda
[10:17] <sharkybaby> heheh
[10:17] <cbx33> I'm sensing excitement in the air
[10:17] <cbx33> oh, for those of you who don;t know ;) - SCP is now in main
[10:17] <highvoltage> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda#preview
[10:17] <highvoltage> documentation next?
[10:17] <highvoltage> cbx33: good job!
[10:17] <RichEd> thanks ... wiki is slow for me tonight
[10:18] <LaserJock> cbx33: and is making me not update edubuntu-desktop ;/
[10:18] <highvoltage> LaserJock: and dynamic menu's is in universe now, right?
[10:18] <RichEd> -- documentation ---
[10:18] <cbx33> sorry LaserJock 
[10:18] <LaserJock> highvoltage: it's in NEW and Keybuck said he is working on NEW today
[10:18] <RichEd> who's got some doc news ?
[10:18] <cbx33> I'll be writing some docs for SCP and pessulus
[10:19] <highvoltage> LaserJock: great
[10:19] <cbx33> for the handbook
[10:19] <pips1_> cbx33: wow, congrats
[10:19] <cbx33> ty
[10:19] <highvoltage> cbx33: I think you should help pips1_ get it on the website soon, so that we can point users there when the software is released
[10:19] <rodarvus> LaserJock, in theory, tomorrow is the ubuntu-archive day for keybuk
[10:19] <cbx33> highvoltage, yeh that's cool
[10:19] <cbx33> my account shuiod still be active
[10:20] <pips1_> yep
[10:20] <LaserJock> rodarvus: he said he was doing it, *shrug*
[10:20] <rodarvus> LaserJock, yeah, thats cool :)
[10:21] <rodarvus> its just that Keybuk and Kamion decided to have a specific day they would give *more* attention to ubuntu-archive issues (thursday and friday, I think)
[10:21] <rodarvus> but they are free to do it on any other time, obviously :)
[10:22] <RichEd> I had a documenation issue raised this past week ... In a discussion with an admin of an icafe using Edubuntu for his client workstations using LTSP. Would it make sense to produce a Handbook for that specific enviroment as well as a school one, or is the doc general enough for both ?
[10:23] <pygi> RichEd, we can adapt that use case for handbook perhaps, as one topic
[10:23] <RichEd> highvoltage: comments ? you know both environments well ?
[10:23] <cbx33> RichEd, personally I think the general should be sufficient
[10:23] <cbx33> pygi, good idea
[10:23] <RichEd> Put it this way, I was going to volunteer him to make the suggested changed for us :)
[10:23] <cbx33> you could have a short section on some case studies
[10:23] <highvoltage> RichEd: honestly, I don't know. there would be a lot of overlap
[10:24] <RichEd> *changes
[10:24] <RichEd> Perhaps an appendix for specific use cases ? Just thinking aloud.
[10:24] <highvoltage> on the other side, running an internet cafe is very much different than running a lba t a school, so defferent cookbooks from that perspective sounds feasible
[10:24] <cbx33> highvoltage, do you still have access to the website?
[10:24] <highvoltage> cbx33: yep
[10:24] <cbx33> can you change my password
[10:24] <cbx33> ;)
[10:24] <cbx33> pm me?
[10:25] <highvoltage> cbx33: ok
[10:25] <RichEd> Not an urgent issue, but it will come up later when we dig more into the Education Solution Space ... I'll file it away until then.
[10:25] <pips1_> who is doing documentation from the present ppl?
[10:25] <highvoltage> RichEd: in Ubuntu/Edubuntu, those descisions are usually made by the people who are actually going to do the documentation
[10:25] <cbx33> RichEd, is this a good place to come up with what I was talking to you about the other day....
[10:25] <cbx33> project tracking
[10:26] <RichEd> Okay cbx33 : jump in ...
[10:26] <cbx33> I was wondering guys
[10:26] <highvoltage> RichEd: so I think your options are (1) decide how it needs to be done and lead it, or (2) put it out there and let a group form that wil do the work, and decide how they want to do it
[10:26] <cbx33> generally we seem to be pretty good in knowing what's happening where
[10:26] <RichEd> highvoltage: I'll bring it up as an example later, and then move it to the next Handbook Meeting.
[10:26] <highvoltage> yeah, would be cool i jono was here
[10:27] <highvoltage> *if
[10:27] <cbx33> but what are peoples opinions on introducing some kind of web based project management system, that is a little more finer grained than LP
[10:27] <RichEd> (you'll see where it fits in when we get to solution views)
[10:27] <cbx33> to allow creating of projects and tasks inside those projets, and assigning those takss to people
[10:27] <highvoltage> ok
[10:27] <cbx33> I've been suing it at work for organising myself and my technician
[10:28] <pips1_> cbx33: project management tools aren't very popular with volunteers, generally... 
[10:28] <cbx33> and it seems to have doubled my productivity
[10:28] <cbx33> it was merely a suggestion
[10:28] <cbx33> ;)
[10:29] <LaserJock> heh, if it worked I'd volunteer to use it ;-)
[10:29] <RichEd> cbx33: perhaps it makes sense to try it out on a project you are involved in, where other involved people are agreed. If they see benefit, it will be accepted. If not htye will spit it out ?
[10:29] <RichEd> *they
[10:29] <cbx33> RichEd, sure
[10:29] <cbx33> LaserJock, gisomount v2?
[10:29] <cbx33> ;)
[10:30] <RichEd> cbx33: Perhaps you and will and I can use it on the education advocacy exercise ?
[10:30] <cbx33> RichEd, a great suggestion
[10:30] <rodarvus> cbx33, such a tool could work, but don't expect volunteers to maintain it up to date
[10:30] <cbx33> I'll set it up soon
[10:30] <cbx33> rodarvus, ok
[10:30] <rodarvus> in other words, someone would need to babysit this tool a lot
[10:30] <LaserJock> I don't really get what "it" is
[10:30] <pips1_> cbx33, I don't think it's a bad idea... were you thinking about some sort of issue tracker only, or also calendaring...?
[10:30] <cbx33> LaserJock, google for dotproject
[10:30] <RichEd> Agreed then ... make it available, not compulsory. See if it gains acceptance ?
[10:31] <rodarvus> cbx33, unless you have any other idea, I suggest you to take a look at trac and dotproject
[10:31] <cbx33> rodarvus, i suggested dotproject
[10:31] <rodarvus> dotproject might be too heavyweight, though
[10:31] <cbx33> it rawks
[10:31] <cbx33> you think?
[10:31] <rodarvus> for volunteer work, yes
[10:31] <RichEd> Even if the tool gets too heavy, some of the principles may stick and be adopted into wiki processes.
[10:31] <cbx33> but you can disable modules
[10:32] <rodarvus> RichEd, right, indeed
[10:32] <RichEd> So it may be a useful exercise to evaluate on a small and voluntary scale.
[10:32] <rodarvus> but again, I think this is an excellent initiative
[10:32] <cbx33> I'll setup a dotproject
[10:32] <rodarvus> cbx33, go for it, I believe it can be great for edubuntu
[10:32] <cbx33> ;)
[10:32] <LaserJock> yeah, for an LP project I've been working on we've needed something like this
[10:33] <RichEd> As a final coment, we may soon see more than just #edubuntu as a support channel for education, some differentiation may haqppen soon.
[10:33] <cbx33> RichEd, ?
[10:33] <cbx33> care to elaborate?
[10:33] <RichEd> And as we split into channels, we may need more tracking to keep informed and stay on top of things.
[10:33] <rodarvus> #edubuntu-devel and #edubuntu ?
[10:33] <cbx33> RichEd, yes true
[10:34] <RichEd> I'll bring it up in solution spaces later, but along the lines of #ubuntu-education ... and not just #edubuntu (product)
[10:34] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:34] <cbx33> RichEd, sounds sensible
[10:35] <LaserJock> I hate it when people come on #edubuntu looking for educational support, etc.
[10:35] <cbx33> we'd keep devel in #edubuntu?
[10:35] <LaserJock> because I don't have really anything to offer
[10:35] <RichEd> More user spaces, *not* trying to split the dev community here :)
[10:35] <highvoltage> LaserJock: you do?
[10:35] <highvoltage> ah, i see
[10:35] <LaserJock> yeah, sorry, I don't hate *them*, I hate that I can't help them
[10:35] <rodarvus> right
[10:35] <cbx33> LaserJock, that's not true
[10:35] <cbx33> you're a great help
[10:36] <RichEd> Are we done in documentation, because then we can move into artwork, and then tackle the solution space stuff.
[10:36] <cbx33> RichEd, shoot
[10:36] <highvoltage> LaserJock: what happened with k12ltsp, is that teachers started giving each other edu-support on the lists, that works quite cool
[10:36] <RichEd> highvoltage: spot on !
[10:36] <LaserJock> highvoltage: that's where #edubuntu-education would be cool
[10:36] <RichEd> LaserJock: it's about a home for where each person is comfortable ... some users are as afraid of you as you are of them :)
[10:37] <sbalneav> Gotta go, I'll be on later tonight.
[10:37] <RichEd> --- art work ---
[10:37] <sbalneav> see you tomorrow ogra
[10:37] <cbx33> RichEd, I wonder if soon we should tackle a non-IRC based support solution too
[10:37] <RichEd> all in the solutiopn space topic cbx33 :)
[10:37] <cbx33> nice
[10:37] <pips1_> cbx33: non-IRC and non-Mailing list, you mean?
[10:38] <cbx33> we'll wait till alter pips1_ 
[10:38] <pips1_> yep
[10:38] <highvoltage> pips1_: heh, I see where you're going :)
[10:38] <pips1_> hehe
[10:38] <RichEd> --- art work --- going twice ?
[10:38] <cbx33> well
[10:38] <pips1_> hey, not so quick!
[10:38] <cbx33> the new artowrk I think is in knot3
[10:39] <cbx33> the new usplash definitely is
[10:39] <cbx33> though there is a bug fix for it which didn't get in
[10:40] <pips1_> cbx33: is there an online preview for the impatient? :)
[10:40] <cbx33> AliasVegas, would really like some feedback
[10:41] <pips1_> I'm too busy with other things to install knot3 right now... :/
[10:41] <pips1_> cbx33: ?
[10:41] <ogra> cbx33, it works ... there is a bug in usplash that sets it to 640x480 (fro which we ship no theme)
[10:43] <cbx33> I will put it all up online as soon as I get a chance
[10:43] <rodarvus> cbx33, didn't you applied for ubuntu-devel yet?
[10:43] <rodarvus> I kind of expected to see you on yesterdays meeting
[10:44] <cbx33> rodarvus, I will do next time
[10:44] <ogra> yeah, he missed
[10:44] <cbx33> I didn 't have time to prepare
[10:44] <LaserJock> edubuntu-artwork 0.1.0-35 hit my edgy-changes mailbox :-)
[10:44] <rodarvus> right, don't miss it next time ;)
[10:44] <cbx33> sorry rodarvus 
[10:44] <rodarvus> we can always use more hands, development wise!
[10:44] <highvoltage> whohoo!
[10:45] <rodarvus> cbx33, no need to be sorry too ;)
[10:45] <cbx33> rodarvus, I'm there trust me....as long as I have some fans
[10:45] <cbx33> otherwise I'll fall flat on my development face ;)
[10:45] <rodarvus> cbx33, make sure you read DeveloperResources on wiki thoroughly
[10:45] <cbx33> I will
[10:46] <LaserJock> hopefully I'll make it too
[10:46] <rodarvus> LaserJock, for core-dev?
[10:46] <rodarvus> ahn
[10:46] <rodarvus> I thought you wanted to apply for core-dev
[10:46] <LaserJock> no, to support cbx33
[10:46] <LaserJock> oh, I'll get there
[10:46] <LaserJock> not ready yet
[10:47] <rodarvus> hopefully both of you will get to core-dev in a few months :)
[10:47] <cbx33> rodarvus, you think?
[10:47] <cbx33> wow cool
[10:47] <ogra> rodarvus, we'll get him there ;) i did a sponsored main upload today :)
[10:47] <rodarvus> its a lot more responsability involved, but really important for us to have more developers involved in core dev
[10:47] <rodarvus> cbx33, yeah, why not
[10:48] <cbx33> LaserJock, maybe we should try to get gisomount in main
[10:48] <cbx33> we're getting off topic
[10:48] <cbx33> ;)
[10:48] <rodarvus> we haven't much edubuntu specific packaging for main currently (and it is basically handled by ogra)
[10:48] <rodarvus> but that will increase (a whole lot) in the next few months
[10:48] <LaserJock> because?
[10:48] <rodarvus> OLPC
[10:48] <ogra> and on which CD should that fit ? 
[10:48] <cbx33> ahhh
[10:48] <ogra> ah, ok, i suppose that small
[10:48] <ogra> :)
[10:48] <rodarvus> ogra: not for edubuntu cd ;)
[10:49] <rodarvus> don't worry!
[10:49] <cbx33> ogra, didn;t you hear, we're revising the CD standard size
[10:49] <ogra> will we get an edubuntu-olpc CD ?
[10:49] <cbx33> just for edubuntu
[10:49] <rodarvus> more like a disk image for OLPC and others interested
[10:49] <rodarvus> with preinstalled stuff
[10:50] <LaserJock> I thought Mark was springing for getting every school in the world a DVD rom
[10:50] <rodarvus> this overlaps some with what RichEd was mentioning on thinking about educational content, not specific to edubuntu
[10:51] <RichEd> LaserJock: We can give them DVDs but can they read them ?
[10:51] <cbx33> RichEd, I think he meant drive
[10:51] <LaserJock> mhm
[10:51] <LaserJock> hence the ;-)
[10:52] <RichEd> We still have probably a 80:20 CD:DVD capability in workstations across the target sector.
[10:52] <RichEd> I preferred the track that started in the last few weeks about a base CD and add-on packs.
[10:52] <LaserJock> me too
[10:52] <pips1_> THE target sector? are you talking about schools worldwide? 
[10:52] <cbx33> me too
[10:52] <highvoltage> although with ubuntu you just need a dvd drive in one pc in an organisation :)
[10:53] <cbx33> RichEd, but as we also said
[10:53] <cbx33> what is the point of an addon pack
[10:53] <highvoltage> even with full machines you could just do a network install :)
[10:53] <cbx33> just make a few meta pacakges 
[10:53] <RichEd> Schools, end-users, refurb charity cases.
[10:53] <cbx33> chemistry-meta pack
[10:53] <LaserJock> cbx33: well, having an .iso for the meta packs is a good idea
[10:53] <cbx33> i suppose
[10:53] <RichEd> cbx33: not prescribing a solution, just a concept. how we solve it is not significant.
[10:53] <LaserJock> cbx33: have you seen my LP page recently, tw :-)
[10:53] <LaserJock> s/tw/btw/
[10:54] <cbx33> just checking
[10:54] <RichEd> Could we see edubuntu as an add-on pack to a base ubuntu CD ?
[10:55] <cbx33> HAHAH LaserJock ROFLPMP
[10:55] <rodarvus> I think ogra is afk, and he can say it better
[10:55] <LaserJock> RichEd: depends on the target I think
[10:55] <RichEd> Just for debate at some point ... not to stir the pot too much, but it could make a lot of things simpler in the long term.
[10:55] <rodarvus> RichEd, first problem would be losing our brand recognition we have right now
[10:56] <rodarvus> we would lose automatic installation
[10:56] <RichEd> Especially the support of base functionality being directed towards ubuntu where it belongs.
[10:56] <rodarvus> but OTOH, we could easily make a GUI installer for Edubuntu, which can be run after the machine has been installed
[10:56] <rodarvus> *and* as an addon cd, during installation
[10:56] <RichEd> It is just a long term thought.
[10:56] <rodarvus> sure
[10:57] <rodarvus> a valuable thought, actually
[10:57] <RichEd> It could still come out as a Ubuntu Base CD with Edubuntu Base on the same CD ... 
[10:57] <rodarvus> would make an immense amount of space available for us
[10:57] <RichEd> With the pocess: installing ubuntu ..... done
[10:57] <RichEd> Installing Edubuntu Add-On layer ...
[10:57] <RichEd> All in one seamless process.
[10:57] <pips1_> I like the idea
[10:58] <rodarvus> we could then make it possible for people to install Edubuntu standard, Edubuntu Light, "KEdubuntu", etc... all above Ubuntu
[10:58] <RichEd> It would make it easier for understanding ... not only support, but what is edubuntu ?
[10:58] <LaserJock> yeah, it's hard because Edubuntu really has many target audiences, IMO with different needs
[10:58] <RichEd> What is the difference between Ubuntu / Edubuntu and Kubuntu ?
[10:59] <LaserJock> what gets installed by default mostly
[10:59] <rodarvus> installer is (a little) different for all of them
[10:59] <cbx33> rodarvus, indeed
[10:59] <LaserJock> although Edubuntu has more differences, to me, thank Kubuntu
[10:59] <RichEd> Yep. We'll get onto that in the solution space topic soon, but tryng to be all things to all people on one CD will hit the wall soon.
[10:59] <rodarvus> UI (and configuration tools) is different
[10:59] <cbx33> I'm going to have to go soon guys
[10:59] <rodarvus> but the basic framework is the same for all
[10:59] <cbx33> :(
[11:00] <RichEd> okay ... that's planted the seeds ... no need to debate it all now.
[11:00] <rodarvus> RichEd, it hit the wall on Edgy already, to be sincere
[11:00] <rodarvus> we are dropping a lot of stuff which is present on Ubuntu already
[11:00] <pips1_> rodarvus: please expand
[11:00] <pips1_> ah
[11:00] <rodarvus> pips1_, we have just dropped mono, beagle, tomboy and f-spot from edubuntu
[11:00] <cbx33> the headers are going
[11:00] <rodarvus> because we needed to make space for other stuff
[11:01] <cbx33> ogra, said gcc is gone - but it will be back
[11:01] <RichEd> * Can I do the solution space stuff now so that cbx33 can get the general idea before he ducks off ? *
[11:01] <rodarvus> also probably the headers, gcc, make, basic tools for building kernel modules, etc
[11:01] <cbx33> thanks RichEd 
[11:01] <pips1_> ic
[11:01] <RichEd> --- management and community ---
[11:01] <rodarvus> we will likely need to drop (more) translations too in the future
[11:02] <RichEd> Some background to some really productive thinking and debate over the past week, both within #edubuntu community, as well as with Jono, and Matt Nazum.
[11:02] <RichEd> As you all are probably tired of hearing now (but I need to repeat it):
[11:02] <RichEd> I'm the 1st line contact for all Education enquries coming into Canonical.
[11:02] <RichEd> So that encompasses Ubuntu and all its variants, and enquires from users, partners, OEMs, and quite a wide range of people, with a wide requirements scope within the Education Sector.
[11:03] <RichEd> Inside #edubuntu we've been talking about providing an end-user front end into the web sites, or a portal for education users ....
[11:03] <RichEd> ... and brought Jono and Matt Nazm into the debate to find out how and where to host this.
[11:03] <RichEd> Which is where Matt came in with the idea of Solution Spaces.
[11:04] <RichEd> He will be creating a new structure off the Ubuntu Web Site:
[11:04] <RichEd> www.ubuntu.com/solutions/education
[11:04] <RichEd> www.ubuntu.com/solutions/business
[11:04] <RichEd> etc.
[11:05] <RichEd> With the idea being to provide a consolidated place for all information around the needs of a target sector.
[11:05] <RichEd> Now this works every well for us, because Eduaction and Ubuntu is not just Edubuntu.
[11:05] <RichEd> Let me grab an example:
[11:05] <RichEd> In a large scale education deployment the users and administrators will not rely entirely on Edubuntu for all areas of the solution.
[11:05] <RichEd>     *
[11:05] <RichEd>       The Classroom Desktop will usually be an Edubuntu install
[11:05] <RichEd>     *
[11:05] <RichEd>       The Classroom Server will usually be an Edubuntu install, LTSP or otherwise
[11:06] <RichEd> But Back End Support Services for the classroom will probably use an Ubuntu install:
[11:06] <RichEd>     *
[11:06] <RichEd>       Mail Servers
[11:06] <RichEd>     *
[11:06] <RichEd>       Web Servers
[11:06] <RichEd>     *
[11:06] <RichEd>       Proxy / Cache / Content Filtering
[11:06] <RichEd>     *
[11:06] <RichEd>       Firewalling
[11:06] <RichEd> ---
[11:06] <RichEd> So the entire solution is not really just an #edubuntu channel affair.
[11:07] <RichEd> #edubuntu is primarily around a product.
[11:07] <RichEd> and so is www.edubuntu.org and wiki.edubuntu.org
[11:07] <RichEd> but the product is not the solution.
[11:07] <RichEd> Am I making sense so far ... comments ?
[11:07] <pips1_> it makes sense to me
[11:08] <LaserJock> yes, although I'm not sure how the non-Edubuntu stuff would work
[11:08] <LaserJock> is that primarily a Canonical thing?
[11:09] <pips1_> the only comment I can offer so far is that we should think carefully about what we offer and how we call it (e.g. I don't like the term "solutions")
[11:09] <RichEd> It's a reality that is emerging from Matt really ... he is looking at al of the web site areas, and seeing some confusion.
[11:09] <LaserJock> mhm
[11:10] <RichEd> I must admit that it has been a bit confusing for me, and I work here !
[11:10] <RichEd> We have a great core of people in #edubuntu, and we will not touch the dev team or channel or any of the existing processes.
[11:10] <RichEd> So there is nothing to fear for our community here ... promise
[11:10] <LaserJock> is there anything that *would* need to be changed in Edubuntu?
[11:11] <RichEd> Nope. Nothing I can see at all LaserJock.
[11:11] <pips1_> hmm
[11:11] <cbx33> I agree about the websites
[11:11] <cbx33> and the confusing nature
[11:11] <RichEd> Let me go back to the channel comment I made earlier, if we had a channel #ubuntu-education, it could move some of the enquires here to a more apropriate area.
[11:12] <LaserJock> I see a lot of "There is Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu. I have no idea which one to install"
[11:12] <pips1_> I think Edubuntu *does* need some changes as a product. E.g. I really like the idea with the modularity (add-on concept)
[11:12] <RichEd> LaserJock: Good place for me to dig in ... let me expand on that.
[11:12] <cbx33> RichEd, is this the time to bring up my support thingy
[11:13] <RichEd> cbx33: give me few more seconds : 
[11:13] <cbx33> ok
[11:13] <RichEd> We are talking *mainly* about guidance pages, that are information and pointers.
[11:14] <RichEd> i.e. we will not reinvent anything, just provide a clear "how all the components fit together" front end
[11:14] <RichEd> and when the person reads Edubuntu ... the link will go straight to the existing web pages
[11:15] <RichEd> The docs, the wiki, the help site will all remain as is. and you guys will continue with the great job in your own style that you are used to.
[11:16] <RichEd> We will just have some user oriented fulff pages: If you are a  school lab admin you may want to read this  _ _ _  and this _ _ _  and install that.
[11:16] <RichEd> What will change is the need for us to create an end user community, discussing their daily education problems with each other.
[11:17] <cbx33> RichEd, totally !
[11:17] <RichEd> Not technical issues, more teacher issues.
[11:17] <RichEd> Hey I found great content on Physics here !
[11:17] <RichEd> This LAMS stuff really works well for UK Biology syllabus Grades 4-5
[11:18] <RichEd> That sort of stuff. Recommending school admin tools etc.
[11:18] <LaserJock> yeah
[11:18] <RichEd> I won't go into a whole lot of detail now, but will point you to here instead:
[11:18] <RichEd> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/education
[11:19] <LaserJock> well, the best analogy I've got (in my limited experience) is computer sellers like HP and Dell
[11:19] <LaserJock> when you go to there sites the split it up into Home, Business, and Education
[11:19] <RichEd> That's the outline of the process we are starting .. and at the moment it is Me, pips1_ , and cbx33 who are thrashing it out.
[11:19] <LaserJock> you go to which area you belong to and the have customs content for you're area
[11:20] <RichEd> * IMPORTANT NOTE* this will be done by consensus and I am not here as a prescriptive baddie !
[11:20] <LaserJock> aww shucks
[11:20] <pips1_> hehe
[11:20] <RichEd> I'll tell you what I think the Education Sector needs, and we can debate the solution.
[11:20] <RichEd> I am not here to rock anyone's boat ... 
[11:21] <LaserJock> and help me with some darn menus ;-)
[11:21] <cbx33> LaserJock, hehe
[11:21] <RichEd> pips1_: I've noted your comment, and we can talk about that word.
[11:21] <LaserJock> RichEd: don't worry about not rocking the boat too much, sometimes that's exactly what is needed
[11:21] <pips1_> oki :)
[11:22] <LaserJock> RichEd: we are all agreeable people, I think, and we are out to do the best for our users as we can
[11:22] <RichEd> Let me leave you with one last quote from that page I posted up .. the mission / mandate:
[11:22] <pips1_> LaserJock yeah, let's rock that boat! :-)
[11:22] <RichEd> Education Programme Mission
[11:22] <RichEd> The Education Programme supports Canonical's mission to realise the potential of free software in the lives of individuals and organisations by providing a specific focus on Education markets.
[11:22] <RichEd> In particular, the Education Programme strives to:
[11:22] <RichEd>     *
[11:22] <RichEd>       Position Ubuntu and its variants as the dominant Linux distribution in the Education Sector
[11:22] <RichEd>     *
[11:22] <RichEd>       Stimulate the growth of open source software, communities and skills in the Education Sector    *
[11:22] <RichEd>       Support Canonical and Ubuntu in order to ensure the Education Programme is Sustainable
[11:23] <RichEd> ---
[11:23] <LaserJock>  \o/
[11:23] <LaserJock>   |
[11:23] <LaserJock>  /\
[11:23] <RichEd> I don't think we can do all of that unless we create a friendly home for a vibrant end user community ... where they trust us ... and offer comments.
[11:23] <cbx33> RichEd, you rock ;)
[11:23] <pips1_> I love the second mandate and I totally see the point of the first and third
[11:24] <LaserJock> think AliasVegas will let me do some artwork for Edgy+1? ;-)
[11:24] <cbx33> I'm sure she'd love to have a hand
[11:24] <cbx33> we were ver very pushed this time
[11:24] <LaserJock> I can do pom poms too
[11:24] <RichEd> So that is my goal. If we can be the developer community that makes Education people understand FOSS and not be afraid ... we will be doing the world a service.
[11:25] <LaserJock> +1
[11:25] <pips1_> ++
[11:25] <RichEd> I'd like to have a landing page with the words "Don't Panic" in big friendly letters
[11:25] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:25] <RichEd> Not in reality, but in spirit :)
[11:25] <RichEd> ---
[11:26] <RichEd> That's me done. I'll update that page 2 or 3 times before Friday, and then 2 /3 times a week.
[11:26] <pips1_> I want a landing page that says "Education rocks!"
[11:26] <pips1_> :)
[11:27] <RichEd> As a matter of interest, we have identified over 50 categories of people who's lives touch on Ubuntu Education.
[11:27] <LaserJock> "Edubuntu the Educational FLOSS - It gets the junk out"
[11:27] <pips1_> nice
[11:28] <pips1_> You have been thinking about that one, ey?
[11:28] <LaserJock> hm?
[11:28] <pips1_> :-D
[11:28] <RichEd> cbx33: you had something to introduce earlier ?
[11:29] <cbx33> I was going to ask about the live help thingy
[11:29] <RichEd> expand on that ?
[11:29] <cbx33> as a support item that is non IRC non ML
[11:29] <cbx33> and fairly instantaneous
[11:30] <pips1_> LaserJock we do a tv style FLOSS ad, with sabdfl flossing his teeth and your slogan at the end... :-)
[11:30] <LaserJock> haha
[11:31] <cbx33> www.craftysyntax.com
[11:31] <cbx33> take a look at that and see what your opinions are
[11:31] <RichEd> cbx33: yes ... go on ... sounds exciting .. does it involve cloning and time travel on your behalf ?
[11:31] <cbx33> I would be very excited to hear peoples input here
[11:32] <cbx33> I realise that it would in some ways increase commitment for people involved
[11:32] <RichEd> cbx33: I'll take a proper look tomorrow ... but let me give you some insight on the "support resource issue" ...
[11:32] <LaserJock> cbx33: excellent, where would we get the people?
[11:33] <cbx33> but I think that if we are goign to grow in ways as mentioned we need to have more support options vaibale
[11:33] <cbx33> LaserJock, that is the only issue
[11:33] <cbx33> but I believe it woudn't hurt to run a trial
[11:33] <LaserJock> cbx33: seems to me that would be a Canonical or Canonical-like thing
[11:33] <RichEd> a real life anectdote from the life of JaneW ... some of you know who she is ;)
[11:33] <cbx33> not necessarily
[11:34] <cbx33> infact people closer to the community would be better....
[11:34] <cbx33> just being able to say to people who are NonIRC NONML....this is a question for the ML
[11:34] <cbx33> we could be losing potential users because of their lack of understandin of IRC/ML
[11:34] <LaserJock> cbx33: but you will have issues with getting people and having quality people
[11:34] <cbx33> LaserJock, I know that
[11:34] <cbx33> ther ewould have to be a manager who knows the people involed
[11:35] <cbx33> much like we have for core-dev/devel
[11:35] <LaserJock> but that is something that Ubuntu in general has wanted to do
[11:35] <cbx33> if you get my meaning
[11:35] <cbx33> really?
[11:35] <LaserJock> sure
[11:35] <cbx33> excellent
[11:35] <RichEd> Can I drop in my example ?
[11:35] <cbx33> sure
[11:35] <cbx33> sorry RichEd 
[11:35] <RichEd> When she was pregnant and spawning and raising two youg kids, she belonged to a Parenting Forum ... web based, big friendly pink letters.
[11:35] <cbx33> got carried away
[11:36] <RichEd> There was a huge amount of traffic, of mothers helping mothers with all sorts of issues.
[11:36] <cbx33> uh huh
[11:36] <RichEd> Occasionally a qualified person would duck thier head in to set the record straight, but 90 % of the traffic was community
[11:36] <RichEd> I believe if we create the right home,w e can get the same sort of action.
[11:37] <RichEd> We can use sticky posts at the top of significant forum threads.
[11:37] <LaserJock> I do too, I guess the question is how to do it and what medium to use
[11:37] <cbx33> LaserJock, exactly
[11:38] <RichEd> But let the people help each other. K12LTSP has around 50 emails a day on their list.
[11:38] <RichEd> We have 50 a month.
[11:38] <RichEd> Their front end user web site has big ugly simple fonts.
[11:38] <LaserJock> the solutions website idea + a forum would probably be really cool
[11:38] <cbx33> hmmm
[11:38] <cbx33> This is just a personal thing....
[11:38] <RichEd> We have neat structure, with perhaps too much logic for the end user.
[11:38] <cbx33> but I steer clear of forums and ML's if possible
[11:39] <cbx33> because the response is too slow
[11:39] <cbx33> or it is seen to be too slow
[11:39] <cbx33> but I can see what you are saying
[11:39] <RichEd> pips1_ is comfortable woth drupal
[11:39] <LaserJock> hmm, I go the opposite :-)
[11:39] <LaserJock> I find real-time support too rushed
[11:39] <RichEd> pips1_ is comfortable with drupal I mean, so we will play with this for a bit
[11:39] <cbx33> heheh
[11:39] <pips1_> cbx33 we know you are on speed, dude ;-)
[11:39] <cbx33> hehehe
[11:40] <cbx33> I guess it's the nature of my job
[11:40] <cbx33> I have 30-40 support requests a day
[11:40] <RichEd> How is not important this week. I wanted to introduce what & why.
[11:40] <cbx33> sorry RichEd 
[11:40] <RichEd> We can do some how against a test framework soon.
[11:40] <LaserJock> hmm, I guess the basic idea here
[11:40] <cbx33> didn't meant to disreupt the meeting 
[11:41] <LaserJock> is that we would like to go beyond just "product production"
[11:41] <cbx33> nn guys
[11:41] <LaserJock> into "open-source solution center" or somethinge like that
[11:41] <cbx33> sorry :(
[11:41] <LaserJock> cya cbx33 
[11:41] <RichEd> no problem cbx33  
[11:41] <pips1_> cu cbx33
[11:42] <RichEd> I'm ready to wrap ... 14 minute to pumpkin time my side ...
[11:42] <RichEd> Anyone with any pressing issues left over ?
[11:42] <cbx33> oh
[11:42] <RichEd> You can mail me with complaints and suggestions :)
[11:42] <cbx33> I did have....hang on what was it
[11:42] <sharkybaby> im off now 2 c ya all
[11:42] <cbx33> nope gone
[11:42] <LaserJock> cya sharkybaby, make sure to keep track of Pete
[11:43] <sharkybaby> yep will do 
[11:43] <LaserJock> he's too wild for us
[11:43] <LaserJock> ;-)
[11:43] <cbx33> OI
[11:43] <cbx33> he's doing work exp with me 
[11:43] <sharkybaby> :)
[11:43] <cbx33> at the school
[11:43] <cbx33> he's doing a damn good job
[11:43] <cbx33> oooh
[11:43] <cbx33> yes I have one more thing
[11:43] <cbx33> in the kind of community thing
[11:43] <cbx33> I have been approached by the ICT technical panel in the city I work in
[11:44] <cbx33> to stand for Chairman
[11:44] <cbx33> so I thought I'd do it....
[11:44] <cbx33> ;)
[11:44] <cbx33> it could give me an opportunity to dispell common OSS myths to a larger audience
[11:44] <sharkybaby> :)
[11:45] <cbx33> also....I ran my first teaching session today
[11:45] <cbx33> teaching kids about ubuntu/edubuntu
[11:45] <cbx33> and open source
[11:45] <cbx33> went really really well
[11:45] <LaserJock> myths? surely there aren't any myths about Linux?
[11:45] <cbx33> now everyone seems to have gone to sleep
[11:45] <sharkybaby> yeh was pritty gd id say just they all chat 2 much lol
[11:45] <cbx33> I'll draw with a big marker pen on their faces....and leave ;)
[11:45] <RichEd> excellent cbx33 : corrupting the youth ... I like it !
[11:46] <cbx33> nn guys
[11:46] <sharkybaby> nn 
[11:47] <RichEd> thanks guys ... that's a wrap
[11:47] <RichEd> nice discussion.
[11:48] <RichEd> goodnight to all
[11:48] <pips1_> yes
[11:48] <pips1_> goodnight !
[11:48] <RichEd> thanks pips1_ :)
[11:48] <pips1_> I think you did well today :)
[11:51] <RichEd> Thanks ... I think we sowed some good seeds.
[11:51] <pips1_> :)
[11:51] <RichEd> A bit different ... but nothing too scary ...
[11:52] <pips1_> i don't think anyone here is easily scared
[11:52] <RichEd> Now I must show some good progress in 1 week on that page, and we must bring others into the loop with comments.
[11:52] <pips1_> agreed !
[11:52] <pips1_> especially the part about getting other into the loop!
[11:52] <RichEd> I'll add a section to the page specifically calling for comments, live, on the page itself. Public forum for debaee.
[11:53] <RichEd> * debate.
[11:53] <RichEd> An open and transparent process.
[11:53] <pips1_> way to go
[11:53] <RichEd> :)
[11:54] <RichEd> And a short way to go to my bed. It's now almost tomorrow.
[11:54] <RichEd> Goodnight ... speak to you soon.
[11:54] <pips1_> hehe yeah, it's late
[11:54] <pips1_> have a good sleep, cu soon