| === ddaa [n=ddaa@nor75-18-82-241-238-155.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| === salgado [n=salgado@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| === flacoste [n=francis@modemcable207.210-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| SteveA | ok | 08:05 |
|---|---|---|
| SteveA | hi salgado | 08:05 |
| SteveA | hi flacoste | 08:05 |
| salgado | hello | 08:05 |
| flacoste | hi | 08:05 |
| SteveA | so, we have some specs | 08:05 |
| flacoste | https://launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadI18n | 08:06 |
| salgado | https://launchpad.canonical.com/LocalizedSupportTracker | 08:06 |
| flacoste | https://launchpad.canonical.com/LocalizedLoginWorkflow | 08:06 |
| salgado | https://launchpad.canonical.com/LocalizedSupportRequests | 08:06 |
| salgado | this is team work | 08:06 |
| flacoste | :-) | 08:06 |
| SteveA | excellnet | 08:07 |
| SteveA | and the purpose of this meeting is to answer what question exactly? | 08:07 |
| salgado | which of these specs are going to be a 1.0 target | 08:08 |
| flacoste | basically, is LocalizedLoginWorkflow still a 1.0 target? | 08:08 |
| flacoste | or what part of LaunchpadI18n can be done for 1.0 | 08:08 |
| SteveA | ah -- note the typo | 08:09 |
| SteveA | https://launchpad.canonical.com/LocalizedLoginWorfklow | 08:09 |
| SteveA | Worfklow | 08:09 |
| SteveA | it is klingon :-) | 08:09 |
| salgado | heh | 08:10 |
| === salgado fixes | ||
| SteveA | ok | 08:12 |
| SteveA | next question... resources | 08:12 |
| SteveA | what resources do we have to do any work we agree to today? | 08:12 |
| SteveA | iow | 08:12 |
| SteveA | what do you guys have on your 1.0 specs lists? | 08:12 |
| salgado | I have person-creation-rationale, which I hope to finish by middle of next week | 08:13 |
| flacoste | i have the support-tracker-workflow specification which is quite big and then support-trackwer-views and help pages for the support tracker | 08:13 |
| salgado | then I have direct-person-creation, which has a blocker issue and is not even speced yet | 08:13 |
| flacoste | SteveA: do we have a date for 1.0? | 08:14 |
| SteveA | yes and no | 08:17 |
| SteveA | let's say, mid to end oct | 08:17 |
| flacoste | i think i can finish my 1.0 assigned spec in ~3 weeks | 08:17 |
| SteveA | ok, well... that doesn't leave much resources to do this. | 08:18 |
| flacoste | indeed, not very much | 08:18 |
| SteveA | so, we have a couple of themes | 08:18 |
| SteveA | 1. recording what language support requests are in | 08:18 |
| SteveA | 2. internationalizing launchpad, and localizing at least the login and support parts | 08:19 |
| SteveA | part 1 i'd say is a definite 1.0 thing | 08:21 |
| flacoste | i would like to point out that the way the spec about #1 is worded, it relies on users being able to state which languages they support | 08:21 |
| SteveA | which language they support? | 08:21 |
| SteveA | you mean, for supporters? | 08:21 |
| flacoste | exactly | 08:21 |
| SteveA | or for people filing support requests? | 08:21 |
| salgado | yeah, for support contacts, mainly | 08:21 |
| SteveA | okay | 08:21 |
| salgado | so, if I'm support contact of Launchpad, I want to receive only support requests on the languages that I speak | 08:22 |
| SteveA | I see | 08:22 |
| SteveA | that sounds very reasonable | 08:23 |
| salgado | this is already possible, but not very "visible" | 08:23 |
| salgado | (I'm assuming we're going to reuse the existent PersonLanguages table) | 08:23 |
| SteveA | well, I think first of all yes | 08:24 |
| SteveA | we might find that ability to translate is different from ability to answer support requests, for example | 08:24 |
| SteveA | so there are differing language levels | 08:24 |
| SteveA | but that can come later | 08:24 |
| flacoste | another use of the person's languages is to select which requests to display in listing | 08:24 |
| flacoste | The spec stated: "All code related to searching support requests will have to be changed to only display requests written in one of the user's preferred languages." | 08:25 |
| SteveA | admins should be able to see it all, somehow | 08:26 |
| SteveA | otherwise, I can imagine support problems | 08:26 |
| salgado | flacoste, how hard will it be to do that? | 08:26 |
| salgado | I think everybody should be able to see them all | 08:26 |
| flacoste | salgado: well, it is not hard to implement, just another criteria on the searchTickets() method | 08:26 |
| SteveA | or, get everyone to see them all | 08:27 |
| SteveA | but show the language with them | 08:27 |
| SteveA | I dont' know | 08:27 |
| SteveA | we'll have to see what works best | 08:27 |
| salgado | the biggest problem I can see is with tsearch2, as our stopwords and stemming algorithms are for english only, IIRC | 08:27 |
| SteveA | so, to be totally honest, I don't see us making significant progress on internationalization before 1.0 | 08:27 |
| SteveA | I'd rather say "internationalization and localization is a 1.1 goal" | 08:28 |
| SteveA | so, allow support requests to be filed in particular languages, and searched for in particular languages etc. | 08:28 |
| SteveA | but put the internationalization off until we do it properly across all launchpad | 08:28 |
| SteveA | what do you guys think about that proposition? | 08:29 |
| flacoste | salgado: yeah, you have a point about the tsearch2, for text search in non-english languages | 08:30 |
| salgado | sounds good to me, but the we'll have even bigger problems with searching for tickets in languages other than english than we already have for searches in english | 08:30 |
| SteveA | the stopwords and stemming should do no *harm* for other languages | 08:30 |
| SteveA | they should just help english | 08:30 |
| SteveA | which is still our main language | 08:30 |
| SteveA | (unlike orkut, where portugese is the main language ;-) ) | 08:31 |
| flacoste | salgado: it would require some changes to the fti implementation to use the ticket's language for proper indexing (tsearch2 can support that) | 08:31 |
| flacoste | but we can delay that for 1.1 | 08:31 |
| salgado | yeah, that sounds good | 08:32 |
| salgado | so, https://launchpad.canonical.com/LocalizedSupportRequests is targeted at 1.0 | 08:33 |
| salgado | but the others aren't | 08:33 |
| salgado | is that right? | 08:33 |
| flacoste | i'm not sure about that | 08:33 |
| flacoste | i'm not sure it will be really helpful to have a language attribute on the support requests without any other i18n support | 08:34 |
| flacoste | it's not like we had lot of non-English support requests | 08:34 |
| flacoste | there will be a lot of changes to the support tracker for 1.0, so it might be better not to add a half-baked feature to the lot | 08:35 |
| flacoste | wouldn't look to good, imho | 08:35 |
| SteveA | I don't see that it's half-baked | 08:35 |
| flacoste | SteveA: sorry, that was too strong a word | 08:36 |
| SteveA | I mean, if we add detection of an appropriate language from browser metadata, maybe it would be okay | 08:36 |
| SteveA | so the appropriate langauge is detected by default | 08:36 |
| SteveA | also, I'd like to note that we *can* do non-1.0 things after the 1.0 things are complete | 08:36 |
| SteveA | so, we can say "full internationalization + localization of login is a goal right after 1.0" | 08:37 |
| SteveA | and that doesn't mean the *release* of 1.0 | 08:37 |
| salgado | another problem I can see is that, if we give people the option to make a request in their native language, they'll prefer that, of course, but they may not get an answer because there's no support contact who speak that language | 08:37 |
| SteveA | but the completion of 1.0 features | 08:37 |
| SteveA | salgado: that's a bug in the spec, perhaps | 08:37 |
| flacoste | "When there is no support contact that speaks the new request language, | 08:37 |
| flacoste | the others get a small notification about the new request. The user | 08:37 |
| flacoste | gets an informational message about the fact that no support contact | 08:37 |
| flacoste | speaks his language. | 08:37 |
| flacoste | " | 08:37 |
| SteveA | ah, nice | 08:38 |
| salgado | ooops | 08:38 |
| SteveA | of course, for 1.0, that message is in english | 08:38 |
| SteveA | so, depending on how 1.0 targets go, maybe we can get (for example) salgado and stub to do i18n | 08:38 |
| flacoste | SteveA: the user will have to know some English in order to be able to post a support request in a non-English language, so that is probably not a problem | 08:38 |
| SteveA | once their 1.0 tasks are complete | 08:39 |
| flacoste | that makes sense, my idea is more that the localized-support-request should have a low 1.0 priority | 08:40 |
| flacoste | SteveA, salgado: are we done here? | 08:43 |
| SteveA | ok | 08:44 |
| salgado | I think so | 08:44 |
| SteveA | well, the 1.0 thing is more like | 08:44 |
| SteveA | "here are the tasks by which people and management will be judged" | 08:44 |
| SteveA | so I'm very happy to have these out of 1.0 | 08:44 |
| SteveA | but as a high priority for after 1.0 | 08:44 |
| flacoste | that's fine by me | 08:44 |
| SteveA | that way, if we miss them, it's okay, but they get done as soon as possible after the stuff agreed for 1.0 | 08:45 |
| SteveA | so, do give them a high priority in the spec tracker | 08:45 |
| SteveA | but just leave the support tracker one as 1.0 | 08:45 |
| salgado | okay. will do | 08:45 |
| === flacoste added some issues raised in the meeting to the Unresolved section of the spec | ||
| flacoste | SteveA, salgado: thanks for the discussion | 08:46 |
| salgado | thanks flacoste, SteveA! | 08:47 |
| SteveA | ok, thanks guys | 08:47 |
| === flacoste [n=francis@modemcable207.210-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #launchpad-meeting ["Bye"] | ||
| === salgado [n=salgado@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #launchpad-meeting ["Leaving"] | ||
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