[08:05] <SteveA> ok
[08:05] <SteveA> hi salgado 
[08:05] <SteveA> hi flacoste 
[08:05] <salgado> hello
[08:05] <flacoste> hi
[08:05] <SteveA> so, we have some specs
[08:06] <flacoste> https://launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadI18n
[08:06] <salgado> https://launchpad.canonical.com/LocalizedSupportTracker
[08:06] <flacoste> https://launchpad.canonical.com/LocalizedLoginWorkflow
[08:06] <salgado> https://launchpad.canonical.com/LocalizedSupportRequests
[08:06] <salgado> this is team work
[08:06] <flacoste> :-)
[08:07] <SteveA> excellnet
[08:07] <SteveA> and the purpose of this meeting is to answer what question exactly?
[08:08] <salgado> which of these specs are going to be a 1.0 target
[08:08] <flacoste> basically, is LocalizedLoginWorkflow still a 1.0 target?
[08:08] <flacoste> or what part of LaunchpadI18n can be done for 1.0
[08:09] <SteveA> ah -- note the typo
[08:09] <SteveA> https://launchpad.canonical.com/LocalizedLoginWorfklow
[08:09] <SteveA> Worfklow
[08:09] <SteveA> it is klingon :-)
[08:10] <salgado> heh
[08:12] <SteveA> ok
[08:12] <SteveA> next question... resources
[08:12] <SteveA> what resources do we have to do any work we agree to today?
[08:12] <SteveA> iow
[08:12] <SteveA> what do you guys have on your 1.0 specs lists?
[08:13] <salgado> I have person-creation-rationale, which I hope to finish by middle of next week
[08:13] <flacoste> i have the support-tracker-workflow specification which is quite big and then support-trackwer-views and help pages for the support tracker
[08:13] <salgado> then I have direct-person-creation, which has a blocker issue and is not even speced yet
[08:14] <flacoste> SteveA: do we have a date for 1.0?
[08:17] <SteveA> yes and no
[08:17] <SteveA> let's say, mid to end oct
[08:17] <flacoste> i think i can finish my 1.0 assigned spec in ~3 weeks
[08:18] <SteveA> ok, well... that doesn't leave much resources to do this.
[08:18] <flacoste> indeed, not very much
[08:18] <SteveA> so, we have a couple of themes
[08:18] <SteveA> 1. recording what language support requests are in
[08:19] <SteveA> 2. internationalizing launchpad, and localizing at least the login and support parts
[08:21] <SteveA> part 1 i'd say is a definite 1.0 thing
[08:21] <flacoste> i would like to point out that the way the spec about #1 is worded, it relies on users being able to state which languages they support
[08:21] <SteveA> which language they support?
[08:21] <SteveA> you mean, for supporters?
[08:21] <flacoste> exactly
[08:21] <SteveA> or for people filing support requests?
[08:21] <salgado> yeah, for support contacts, mainly
[08:21] <SteveA> okay
[08:22] <salgado> so, if I'm support contact of Launchpad, I want to receive only support requests on the languages that I speak
[08:22] <SteveA> I see
[08:23] <SteveA> that sounds very reasonable
[08:23] <salgado> this is already possible, but not very "visible"
[08:23] <salgado> (I'm assuming we're going to reuse the existent PersonLanguages table)
[08:24] <SteveA> well, I think first of all yes
[08:24] <SteveA> we might find that ability to translate is different from ability to answer support requests, for example
[08:24] <SteveA> so there are differing language levels
[08:24] <SteveA> but that can come later
[08:24] <flacoste> another use of the person's languages is to select which requests to display in listing
[08:25] <flacoste> The spec stated: "All code related to searching support requests will have to be changed to only display requests written in one of the user's preferred languages."
[08:26] <SteveA> admins should be able to see it all, somehow
[08:26] <SteveA> otherwise, I can imagine support problems
[08:26] <salgado> flacoste, how hard will it be to do that?
[08:26] <salgado> I think everybody should be able to see them all
[08:26] <flacoste> salgado: well, it is not hard to implement, just another criteria on the searchTickets() method
[08:27] <SteveA> or, get everyone to see them all
[08:27] <SteveA> but show the language with them
[08:27] <SteveA> I dont' know
[08:27] <SteveA> we'll have to see what works best
[08:27] <salgado> the biggest problem I can see is with tsearch2, as our stopwords and stemming algorithms are for english only, IIRC
[08:27] <SteveA> so, to be totally honest, I don't see us making significant progress on internationalization before 1.0
[08:28] <SteveA> I'd rather say "internationalization and localization is a 1.1 goal"
[08:28] <SteveA> so, allow support requests to be filed in particular languages, and searched for in particular languages etc.
[08:28] <SteveA> but put the internationalization off until we do it properly across all  launchpad
[08:29] <SteveA> what do you guys think about that proposition?
[08:30] <flacoste> salgado: yeah, you have a point about the tsearch2, for text search in non-english languages
[08:30] <salgado> sounds good to me, but the we'll have even bigger problems with searching for tickets in languages other than english than we already have for searches in english
[08:30] <SteveA> the stopwords and stemming should do no *harm* for other languages
[08:30] <SteveA> they should just help english
[08:30] <SteveA> which is still our main language
[08:31] <SteveA> (unlike orkut, where portugese is the main language ;-) )
[08:31] <flacoste> salgado: it would require some changes to the fti implementation to use the ticket's language for proper indexing (tsearch2 can support that)
[08:31] <flacoste> but we can delay that for 1.1
[08:32] <salgado> yeah, that sounds good
[08:33] <salgado> so, https://launchpad.canonical.com/LocalizedSupportRequests is targeted at 1.0
[08:33] <salgado> but the others aren't
[08:33] <salgado> is that right?
[08:33] <flacoste> i'm not sure about that
[08:34] <flacoste> i'm not sure it will be really helpful to have a language attribute on the support requests without any other i18n support
[08:34] <flacoste> it's not like we had lot of non-English support requests
[08:35] <flacoste> there will be a lot of changes to the support tracker for 1.0, so it might be better not to add a half-baked feature to the lot
[08:35] <flacoste> wouldn't look to good, imho
[08:35] <SteveA> I don't see that it's half-baked
[08:36] <flacoste> SteveA: sorry, that was too strong a word
[08:36] <SteveA> I mean, if we add detection of an appropriate language from browser metadata, maybe it would be okay
[08:36] <SteveA> so the appropriate langauge is detected by default
[08:36] <SteveA> also, I'd like to note that we *can* do non-1.0 things after the 1.0 things are complete
[08:37] <SteveA> so, we can say "full internationalization + localization of login is a goal right after 1.0"
[08:37] <SteveA> and that doesn't mean the *release* of 1.0
[08:37] <salgado> another problem I can see is that, if we give people the option to make a request in their native language, they'll prefer that, of course, but they may not get an answer because there's no support contact who speak that language
[08:37] <SteveA> but the completion of 1.0 features
[08:37] <SteveA> salgado: that's a bug in the spec, perhaps
[08:37] <flacoste> "When there is no support contact that speaks the new request language,
[08:37] <flacoste> the others get a small notification about the new request. The user
[08:37] <flacoste> gets an informational message about the fact that no support contact
[08:37] <flacoste> speaks his language.
[08:37] <flacoste> "
[08:38] <SteveA> ah, nice
[08:38] <salgado> ooops
[08:38] <SteveA> of course, for 1.0, that message is in english
[08:38] <SteveA> so, depending on how 1.0 targets go, maybe we can get (for example) salgado and stub to do i18n
[08:38] <flacoste> SteveA: the user will have to know some English in order to be able to post a support request in a non-English language, so that is probably not a problem
[08:39] <SteveA> once their 1.0 tasks are complete
[08:40] <flacoste> that makes sense, my idea is more that the localized-support-request should have a low 1.0 priority
[08:43] <flacoste> SteveA, salgado: are we done here?
[08:44] <SteveA> ok
[08:44] <salgado> I think so
[08:44] <SteveA> well, the 1.0 thing is more like
[08:44] <SteveA> "here are the tasks by which people and management will be judged"
[08:44] <SteveA> so I'm very happy to have these out of 1.0
[08:44] <SteveA> but as a high priority for after 1.0
[08:44] <flacoste> that's fine by me
[08:45] <SteveA> that way, if we miss them, it's okay, but they get done as soon as possible after the stuff agreed for 1.0
[08:45] <SteveA> so, do give them a high priority in the spec tracker
[08:45] <SteveA> but just leave the support tracker one as 1.0
[08:45] <salgado> okay. will do
[08:46] <flacoste> SteveA, salgado: thanks for the discussion
[08:47] <salgado> thanks flacoste, SteveA!
[08:47] <SteveA> ok, thanks guys