[12:08] <Keybuk> whoah, funky console font
[12:09] <tseng> are cd dailies good?
[12:09] <tseng> i need a cd image now, so i could test something for knot3 if thats of any use
[12:09] <Nafallo> tseng: they are hopefully on the way to knot-3 so... ;-)
[12:12] <yogurtthewise> hi there
[12:12] <Seveas> when don't you?
[12:12] <Keybuk> have a "spinner" job that runs on the console doing / - \ | and is killed when the first getty runs
[12:12] <Keybuk> :p
[12:12] <Seveas> I love it
[12:13] <Seveas> it shows activity
[12:13] <yogurtthewise> I just managed to create a package for moc 2.4 for ubuntu, compiles perfectly and package builds with no prob. what should I do to see it included?
[12:13] <yogurtthewise> there's an unofficial deb pkg I started from, it's very easy, but it diverges from debian repos, so dunno if it can actually be accepted by ubuntu
[12:14] <yogurtthewise> but there are lots of important improvements over the available 2.3
[12:14] <Nafallo> yogurtthewise: ask on #ubuntu-motu please :-)
[12:14] <yogurtthewise> oh, ok, ta
[12:15] <Keybuk> mdz: if he could just print "Starting up ... " and no \n, that would work rather well
[12:16] <mdz> Keybuk: go for it
[12:16] <mdz> Keybuk: debian/patches/quiet.diff
[12:18] <Keybuk> post-knot3 :)
[12:20] <Keybuk> right, bed
[12:20] <Keybuk> some evil early meeting tomorrow
[12:33] <imbrandon> mdz, ping
[12:33] <imbrandon> still awake ?
[12:35] <mdz> imbrandon: yes, it's afternoon in california
[12:37] <Nafallo> :-)
[12:37] <imbrandon> mdz, ahh dident know you were in cali ;)
[12:38] <imbrandon> mdz, can you poke a look at bug 60319 , i know its not your day to do archive stuff but before i subscribed the archive you are the current mainatiner for that package
[12:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60319 in mythtv "please mythtv sync 0.20 from debian-multimedia" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60319
[12:38] <imbrandon> just wanted to get you to eyeball it if you had time, i pbuilt it and ran it, seems ok
[12:38] <mdz> imbrandon: the package lies; I haven't maintained it for years now
[12:38] <imbrandon> it will close about 5 misfiled sync requests and a few bugs
[12:39] <imbrandon> ahh okies hehehe, i was just going by the LP maintainer ;)
[12:39] <mdz> imbrandon: bringing in the latest from debian-multimedia is the right thing to do
[12:39] <imbrandon> i'll just subscribe archive then , it should be cool as i did all the normal checks
[12:39] <imbrandon> ;)
[12:40] <imbrandon> wow i just realized the title words were scrambled heh
[12:45] <Seveas> imbranyodan 
[12:47] <imbrandon> Seveaayeas
[01:07] <hikenboot> anyone with any experience with the ubuntu-desktop package and rewriting its metadatabase to include a dummy package instead of openoffice?
[01:08] <Burgwork> hikenboot, that is maintained in bzr, you can pull it down yourself and play with it
[01:08] <hikenboot> sorry for being dumb..but bzr?
[01:09] <Burgwork> distributed revision control
[01:09] <Burgwork> http://bazaar-vcs.org/
[01:09] <hikenboot> thanks...
[01:10] <Nafallo> gaah. I was just about to past the url :-P
[01:11] <hikenboot> ah ok that is to ubuntu as mercurial is to xen
[01:11] <Kamion> ubuntu-meta is not maintained in bzr; the seeds are, but if you just want to change the dependencies around a bit, it's much less of a waste of your time to just do 'apt-get source ubuntu-meta' and fiddle
[01:12] <hikenboot> ah ok thanks kamion
[01:13] <pygi> Nafallo, ;)
[01:13] <Kamion> Burgwork: the list of what packages are really maintained in bzr is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrMaintainedPackages
[01:14] <Kamion> ... and back to bed
[01:15] <Nafallo> Kamion: :-)
[01:15] <hikenboot> thanks guys I will investigate to see where this all takes me!
[01:15] <Nafallo> damn Kamion, I must say you're not a heavy sleeper when IRC can wake you ;-)
[01:17] <Burgwork> Kamion, right, my bad. Now sleep
[01:18] <jamadagni> hello
[01:18] <jamadagni> can anyone tell me why gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse is in universe and not multiverse?
[01:19] <Nafallo> jamadagni: it's in multiverse
[01:21] <jamadagni> @Nafallo. I've got multiverse disabled from my repo list, but i still see it in adept
[01:22] <Nafallo> jamadagni: do apt-cache madison gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse to see for yourself. if you can see it, it might be cause you have it installed? :-)
[01:22] <Nafallo> I'm not using Kubuntu myself.
[01:22] <jamadagni> ftp://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10
[01:23] <jamadagni> but also; ftp://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10
[01:23] <jamadagni> crazy
[01:23] <Nafallo> that's not even current edgy
[01:24] <Nafallo> and that's the same URL twice
[01:24] <Nafallo> gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse |   0.10.4-1 | http://ftp.acc.umu.se edgy/multiverse Packages
[01:24] <Nafallo> gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse |   0.10.4-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/multiverse Packages
[01:24] <Nafallo> gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10 |   0.10.4-1 | http://ftp.acc.umu.se edgy/multiverse Sources
[01:24] <Nafallo> gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10 |   0.10.4-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/multiverse Sources
[01:24] <jamadagni> ftp://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/multiverse/g/gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10
[01:25] <Nafallo> hmm, so misplaced binaries.
[01:26] <jamadagni> misplaced sources as well
[01:27] <Nafallo> no
[01:27] <Nafallo> the source is in multiverse for dapper aswell
[01:27] <Nafallo> according to the urls you just sent...
[01:28] <Nafallo> or rather... the source for -3 is lacking...
[01:29] <jamadagni> the pool is common for all distros, no?
[01:29] <Nafallo> but see archive.ubuntu.com. it's the in-mirror that's wrong :_)
[01:29] <Nafallo> :-)
[01:30] <jamadagni> i mean, for all versions
[01:30] <Nafallo> yess
[01:30] <Nafallo> yes
[01:30] <Nafallo> ooh. a.u.c has them in both places... interesting ;-)
[01:31] <Nafallo> infinity: ^ :-)
[01:31] <jamadagni> what?
[01:31] <jamadagni> ftp://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10
[01:31] <infinity> If it's in two components, that would mean it had an override change recently (and is making a smooth transition from A to B)
[01:32] <Nafallo> infinity: where recently is in dapper? :-)
[01:32] <infinity> Oh.  I see.  It was in universe in dapper, andin multiverse in edgy.
[01:32] <jamadagni> confirmed at ftp://se.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10
[01:32] <jamadagni> if it was in universe in dapper then why is it labeled multiverse?
[01:33] <jamadagni> i mean, in the package name itself?
[01:33] <jamadagni> is infinity one of the ubuntu devels?
[01:33] <Nafallo> infinity: where are the sourcecode for the latest dapper version? -3? :-)
[01:33] <Nafallo> jamadagni: he is one of the archive gods :-)
[01:33] <jamadagni> meaning?
[01:34] <infinity> Nafallo: That's a far more interesting question.
[01:34] <jamadagni> he maintains the archives or is just highly knowledgeable about them?
[01:34] <infinity> jamadagni: yes.
[01:34] <Nafallo> jamadagni: both of that I would say :-)
[01:35] <infinity> Nafallo: Err, wait.  -2 should be the latest dapper version.
[01:35] <jamadagni> perhaps -3 was a backport or something
[01:35] <infinity> Nafallo: -3 is an obsolete edgy version.
[01:35] <Nafallo> infinity: ehm, okey. so that's a bug that the binaries is in the archive then :-).
[01:35] <infinity> Nafallo: The fact that the binaries appear to have not been correctly reaped looks to be a soyuz bug.
[01:35] <jamadagni> i reported https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10/+bug/60327
[01:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60327 in gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10 "gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse is present in universe as well as multiverse" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[01:36] <Nafallo> indeed
[01:36] <jamadagni> just now
[01:36] <infinity> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10/0.10.3-3 <-- That screams "oh god, the DB is broken" to me.
[01:37] <Nafallo> infinity: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10 <-- isn't that worse then? -2 is still there :-P
[01:38] <infinity> Nafallo: What's wrong with that?
[01:38] <Nafallo> infinity: ...but that is probably because hppa was build on -2 :-)
[01:38] <infinity> Nafallo: Yes.  Exactly.
[01:38] <Nafallo> why are the old source in the archive still? :-)
[01:38] <infinity> Nafallo: Until/unless we drop hppa completely for edgy (which we should do), you'll see stuff like that.
[01:39] <Nafallo> ah, oki. so known bug + fix then ;-)
[01:39] <infinity> Not a bug at all.
[01:39] <infinity> That's behaving as designed.
[01:39] <Nafallo> oki, feature then :-)
[01:39] <infinity> Well, unless you consider "hppa won't make the edgy release, and should be removed until we bootstrap edgy+1" a bug, which I suppose you could.
[01:40] <Nafallo> yea, that was it :-)
[01:42] <jamadagni> i386, powerpc and amd64 are the only three supported ubuntu archs, right?
[01:42] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[01:42] <zul> hey jdub 
[01:42] <Nafallo> jamadagni: sparc aswell
[01:42] <Nafallo> jdub: morning :-).
[01:43] <jamadagni> nafallo yes
[01:43] <infinity> jamadagni: Sparc for -server
[01:43] <Fujitsu> Good morning, jdub.
[01:43] <infinity> jamadagni: The other three for desktop and server.
[01:44] <Nafallo> woha! just did a apt-cache search xen :-P
[01:44] <Nafallo> lots of images with diffrent kernels :-)
[01:45] <Seveas> GOOD MORNING PANTS!
[01:45] <Seveas> (iow: hi jdub)
[01:45] <Fujitsu> Hahah.
[01:46] <Nafallo> infinity: is there a reason soyuz allows binaries without source in the archive? :-)
[01:46] <infinity> Nafallo: It doesn't.  The thing you just found is a bug.
[01:47] <Nafallo> infinity: want me to report it against something or do you handle it? :-)
[01:47] <infinity> Nafallo: I'm already on it.
[01:47] <Fujitsu> infinity, you mean it's not meant to. It obviously does :P
[01:47] <Nafallo> nice thanks :-)
[01:48] <infinity> Fujitsu: Well, no.  In this case, it looks like a hideous DB inconsistency caused the sources to be removed because we thought the binaries were removed (actually, the whole sourcepackage release seems to have gone missing), but the binaries stayed on-disk.
[01:48] <infinity> Fujitsu: I'm not prepared to commit to this being a code bug yet, it could have been someone's manual futzing in the DB gone horribly wrong.
[01:48] <Fujitsu> Why would anybody have been manually screwing around with the DB?
[01:48] <infinity> (Either way, it's a bug in the archive, obviously)
[01:49] <Fujitsu> A pretty silly thing to do...
[01:49] <infinity> Fujitsu: Happens all the time, really.
[01:49] <infinity> Fujitsu: Usually to clean up after bugs. :)
[01:49] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[01:49] <infinity> (Design me a perfect system, and I'll be happy to use it)
[01:50] <jamadagni> ok guys bye bye. looks like i started a good discussion
[01:50] <Nafallo> infinity: I thought you where a perfect system? :-)
[01:50] <Nafallo> jamadagni: indeed, thanks :-)
[01:50] <Nafallo> jamadagni: and see you :-)
[01:50] <infinity> Nafallo: Sure, but I'm not that tightly integrated into soyuz. :P
[01:50] <infinity> (Nor did I write it)
[01:50] <Nafallo> :-)
[01:51] <jamadagni> ok before i go:...
[01:51] <jamadagni> has https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/usplash/+bug/39173 been fixed for edgy?
[01:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39173 in usplash "usplash messages look a little bland and a little intimidating" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
[01:52] <jamadagni> bugs 60084 and 60090 as well
[01:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60084 in kdepim "KMail should have a menu item in Kubuntu default install" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60084
[01:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60090 in kdebase "Konqueror Archive Web Page tool no longer automatically converts spaces to underscores" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60090
[01:52] <infinity> jamadagni: The plan for edgy is to have no text messages on the splash at all.
[01:52] <jamadagni> fine, but at least will the graphic look nice?
[01:52] <infinity> jamadagni: Also, please don't ask for progress of dozens of bugs here.  Just subscribe to the bugs.
[01:52] <jamadagni> ok sorry
[01:52] <jamadagni> i've already subscribed
[01:52] <jamadagni> bye then
[01:52] <infinity> I appreciate you bringing archive breakage questions here, though, cause those are sometimes urgent. :)
[01:53] <infinity> (Though this one's not so urgent)
[01:53] <infinity> But every archive oddity has the potential to make me run around for hours like a headless chicken.
[01:53] <jamadagni> ok thanks infinity bye
[01:54] <Nafallo> lol
[01:55] <infinity> Oh dear lord, the embarassment.  It's been so long since I've used CVS, I need to RTFM to figure out how to do a checkout.
[01:55] <Fujitsu> infinity, be happy. CVS is a good thing to forget about.
[01:56] <infinity> (Okay, I still use it reasonably frequently on existing checkouts on my hard drive, but that's just "up" and "commit" over and over, I've not checked anything out for well over a year, I'm sure)
[01:56] <infinity> Amazing how quickly knowledge goes stale and gets punted off my stack.
[01:57] <Nafallo> infinity: you're not alone! :-)
 But every archive oddity has the potential to make me run around for hours like a headless chicken. <-- that just screams for a webcam
[01:57] <Seveas> Nafallo, likewise 
[01:58] <Nafallo> Seveas: my thought exactly, if he ever gets one, noone will tell him about those strange things though :-P.
[02:00] <infinity> Nafallo: I use a mix of svn, baz (yes, still, ugh), bzr, and apparently occasionally cvs.
[02:01] <infinity> If I could rid my life of cvs and baz, and be left with just svn and bzr, I'd be pretty happy.
[02:03] <Nafallo> infinity: hmm, tailor them? :-)
[02:06] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[02:13] <sistpoty> infinity: got some time now?
[02:15] <infinity> sistpoty: Yup.
[02:15] <sistpoty> infinity: great :)
[02:16] <sistpoty> infinity: bootstrapping fpc should be pretty straightforward, see bug #2253
[02:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2253 in fpc "fpc needs bootstrapping on buildds" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2253
[02:16] <jamadagni> hello i'm back
[02:17] <jamadagni> i have a question about overrides which i'm sure only the devels can answer so i'm asking here
[02:17] <sistpoty> infinity: it just need fp-compiler, fp-units-rtl and fp-utils available (all built by fpc itself)
[02:17] <jamadagni> i'm looking at ftp://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/indices
[02:18] <jamadagni> the files override.dapper*
[02:18] <jamadagni> most of them i can conjecture what they are for
[02:18] <jamadagni> but override.dapper.extra.* i don't know what they are for
[02:18] <jamadagni> please tell me
[02:18] <infinity> sistpoty: Wow, I promised to help in July?  I suck.
[02:18] <infinity> sistpoty: I'll do it today.
[02:19] <sistpoty> infinity: no, I suck... I pinged you only once before ;)
[02:19] <jamadagni> i mean, everything else is related to a pool category or backport or update or security
[02:19] <sistpoty> infinity: thx :)
[02:19] <jamadagni> that's all understandable
[02:19] <jamadagni> but what is this extra?
[02:19] <jamadagni> which component does it go under?
[02:19] <jamadagni> sorry
[02:19] <jamadagni> obviously there are "extra" packages under all four components
[02:20] <jamadagni> but what can we expect to be there, i mean, what kind of pakages?
[02:20] <infinity> jamadagni: Regular overrides only handle section and priority.  extraoverrides are for "other stuff" we want to override in Packages.gz, like Origin, Bugs, Tasks, etc.
[02:21] <jamadagni> man:dpkg-scanpackages tells me that override files provide information related to the arrangement of files for release
[02:21] <jamadagni> extra overrides doesn't come under that, right?
[02:21] <infinity> dpkg-scanpackages is a bit outdated in that respect. :)
[02:22] <jamadagni> oh then what else are overrides for?
[02:22] <jamadagni> origins, bugs and tasks obviously
[02:22] <infinity> It still assumes an old-style archive layout, where packages live in the mirror under section and priority.
[02:22] <jamadagni> oh of course that is not the case now, right?
[02:22] <infinity> But overrides are used now for overriding various headers in the Packages file (as seen in "apt-cache show <package>")
[02:23] <jamadagni> ok i tried apt-cache show knemo and i get the headers for that package
[02:23] <jamadagni> what would the override change?
[02:24] <infinity> jamadagni: In that case, probably theonly things overridden are "Origin" and "Bugs"
[02:24] <infinity> jamadagni: A more interesting one would be something that's in a task, like metacity.
[02:24] <jamadagni> i don't comprehend - tal
[02:24] <infinity> jamadagni: That will have a Task header added, with "ubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-desktop"
[02:25] <jamadagni> sorry - i don't comprehend task
[02:25] <infinity> jamadagni: And, of course, if the binary package's priority/section don't match with what we (the archive admins) want, that will be overridden too.
[02:25] <jamadagni> google does not help here
[02:25] <infinity> jamadagni: Tasks are usedby the installer and tasksel to select groups of packages.
[02:25] <jamadagni> oh like metapacakges
[02:26] <infinity> In our case, we have a 1:1 mapping between some tasks and metapackages, yes.
[02:26] <infinity> But tasks don't have to have a corresponding metapackage (and we have some that don't)
[02:26] <jamadagni> so tasks are developer-side only?
[02:26] <infinity> For instance:
[02:26] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ apt-cache show mysql-server-5.0 | grep ^Task
[02:26] <infinity> Task: lamp-server
[02:27] <jamadagni> ok task = purpose of a package
[02:27] <infinity> So, the installer can cleverly use that task to install a LAMP server.
[02:27] <infinity> Not a purpose, no.  It's a package grouping.
[02:27] <jamadagni> right
[02:27] <jamadagni> so when i say "give me a lamp-server", it installs all the packages marked with task=lamp-server and presto
[02:27] <jamadagni> i have a lamp-server
[02:27] <jamadagni> right?
[02:28] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ grep-dctrl -FTask -sPackage lamp-server /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_edgy_main_binary-i386_Packages 
[02:28] <infinity> [...] 
[02:28] <infinity> Package: apache2
[02:28] <infinity> Package: apache2-common
[02:28] <infinity> (Lots of output)
[02:30] <infinity> Hrm, and I'll note that task is actually broken.  Cute.
[02:30] <Nafallo> :-)
[02:30] <Nafallo> infinity finds bugs everywhere today ;-)
[02:31] <infinity> It's my lot in life.
[02:31] <jamadagni> pest-eradication!
[02:31] <jamadagni> glad that i could do my indirect bit to help :)
[02:32] <jamadagni> hey, before i say byebye again, just one q -
[02:32] <jamadagni> how do you do that "* infinity fixes* sort of message on irc here?
[02:32] <infinity> jamadagni: "/me does stuff"
[02:36] <infinity> milli: Please don't use verbose away/back messages in this channel.
[02:37] <milli> sorry
[02:37] <milli> didn't know they were verbose
[02:37] <infinity> milli: Anything is verbose. :)
[02:37] <infinity> milli: With as many people as we have in here, if everyone printed something on away/back, we'd be flooded with it.
[02:38] <jdong> ooh, did I hear correctly that ooo 2.0.4 is to be native for amd64 users?
[02:38] <LaserJock> looks like it
[02:39] <infinity> jdong: That's the plan, if it works okay.
[02:39] <jdong> cool
[02:44] <rodarvus> mdz, ping
[02:44] <bluefoxicy> infinity
[02:45] <mdz> rodarvus: yes?
[02:45] <bluefoxicy> you're in charge of the buildd's right?
[02:46] <infinity> bluefoxicy: Yes.
[02:46] <rodarvus> airlied just made a comment on bug #34435, I would appreciate your comment on it
[02:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34435 in gtk-engines "Cairo and ATI RENDER extension cause scrambled buttons in UbuntuLooks" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34435
[02:46] <bluefoxicy> OK, I've been told a number of things, most recently that there's absolutely no gcc wrappers and no global CFLAGS/LDFLAGS/etc on the buildd, this is correct?
[02:46] <infinity> bluefoxicy: For edgy, that's correct, yes.
[02:46] <bluefoxicy> alright
[02:47] <rodarvus> he recommends us to just skip the patch (which he commited to git) and use 6.5.8.1 instead
[02:47] <bluefoxicy> Other stuff I wanted to talk about is setting a couple options default for Edgy+1, is there a meeting I should show up at or should I talk to doko or you?
[02:47] <rodarvus> (but imho it would be safer to apply the patch for now, ask users to test it, and then, without rush, consider updating the ati driver to the above mentioned version)
[02:49] <infinity> bluefoxicy: We decided in Paris that compiler defaults belongin the compiler spec file (we had some VERY long arguments about it, surrounding the stack-protector change), so yeah, discussing itin #ubuntu-toolchain would be best, and you'll want doko present.
[02:49] <bluefoxicy> infinity:  nods.  When is doko normally around?  He's hard to come by :)
[02:49] <infinity> bluefoxicy: Ifit's contentious, you'll want to set up a meeting and invite a few other key people who like to argue about such things (me and mdz, perhaps)
[02:50] <infinity> bluefoxicy: He tends to be around during standardish European work hours.
[02:50] <bluefoxicy> infinity: what would be contentious?
[02:50] <bluefoxicy> things with stability/performance trade-offs?
[02:50] <infinity> bluefoxicy: Anything that (like -fstack-protector) has a high chance of breaking more than a few packages, or something that will cause performance hits, etc.
[02:51] <rodarvus> doko is on OOoCon today (and I guess for a few days still)
[02:51] <bluefoxicy> ah  Hmm european work hours  I'mat gmt-5 ... it's 1am
[02:51] <infinity> bluefoxicy: If it's security-related (as many of the things you tend to look at are), you may also want to bring pitti along for the ride.
[02:51] <rodarvus> it will quite probably be hard to find him
[02:52] <bluefoxicy> infinity:  it's performance stuff, some of meeks' work went into next mainline glibc/ld and I want it enabled by default due to the officially acclaimed 50% application load speed-up
[02:52] <bluefoxicy> and a couple nit-picky things that I bring up every several months anyway
[02:52] <infinity> bluefoxicy: pitti is also in Europe-land.  mdz is all over the map, depending on which hotel he's in this week, and I never sleep.
[02:52] <bluefoxicy> haha
[02:52] <mdz> rodarvus: I'm subscribed to that bug and have been commenting already
[02:52] <Nafallo> lol
[02:52] <Nafallo> all to true :-)
[02:53] <rodarvus> mdz, yes, I know
[02:53] <mdz> rodarvus: if you're asking about dapper, we're not even going to discuss it until the fix has been working well in edgy for an extended period
[02:53] <bluefoxicy> infinity:  I'll keep an eye open in #-toolchain then
[02:53] <mdz> he's provided a patch which should be able to go into edgy immediately
[02:53] <rodarvus> sure, seems reasonable
[02:56] <desrt> bluefoxicy_alloc (sizeof (int));
[02:56] <bluefoxicy> desrt:  no, replacement for crappy Ptmalloc in glibc
[02:57] <desrt> ptmalloc is glibc's current allocator?
[02:57] <bluefoxicy> desrt:  i'm _really_ going to try to finish this by december but we all know how that goes *glares at the other 15 sourceforge projects that don't have any code*
[02:57] <bluefoxicy> desrt:  yes
[02:57] <desrt> bluefoxicy; you should see if glib would accept your code
[02:57] <bluefoxicy> Last I looked it was, in fact Wolfram Gloger's home page says it is.... http://www.malloc.de/en/
[02:58] <desrt> bluefoxicy; that would probably provide MONTHS of amusement
[02:58] <bluefoxicy> "On Linux systems, ptmalloc has been put to work for years as part of the GNU C library."
[02:58] <bluefoxicy> heh
[02:58] <bluefoxicy> desrt:  that's probably a really bad idea ;)
[02:58] <desrt> bluefoxicy; i'm sure people are calling free() instead of g_free() and g_free() instead of free() everywhere
[02:59] <desrt> bluefoxicy; and we'd find out really really quickly :)
[02:59] <bluefoxicy> desrt:  yeah with my tiered micro-heap design you'd find out really, REALLY quickly
[02:59] <bluefoxicy> the structure isn't even remotely the same
[02:59] <desrt> :)
[02:59] <bluefoxicy> hell, the structure isn't remotely the same between allocations of 128 bytes and allocations of 129 bytes
[03:00] <bluefoxicy> allocations of 3967 bytes and 4091 bytes act the same, but allocations of 3968 bytes or 4096 bytes act like allocations of 128KiB
[03:01] <bluefoxicy> desrt:  is g_free() and g_malloc() any more than a wrapper around malloc() anyway?
[03:01] <desrt> bluefoxicy; in theory yes
[03:01] <desrt> bluefoxicy; in implementation, no
[03:01] <desrt> bluefoxicy; which is exactly why people are getting away with things that they ought not to be
[03:04] <bluefoxicy> desrt: http://steel-malloc.sf.net/ *shameless plug* :>
[03:04] <desrt> that's an awful name :)
[03:05] <desrt> but i wish you luck :)
[03:05] <bluefoxicy> hah
[03:06] <bluefoxicy> desrt:  on my wishlist is getting Wolfram Gloger's mtrace tool working on Ubuntu, so I can get good numbers for memory waste; last I tried it claimed that after 5 minutes and 2 messages read, Thunderbird had managed to average having twice as much memory allocated to it than it requested via malloc() :P
[03:07] <bluefoxicy> anyway, back to what I was doing
[03:07] <desrt> have fun :)
[03:10] <Seveas> desrt, nice vim syntax file 
[03:11] <desrt> Seveas; enjoy :)
[03:13] <infinity> I hope that doesn
[03:14] <infinity> 't make it even slower...
[03:15] <Hobbsee> infinity: it will.  try to figure out some way to exploit murphy's law over it.
[03:16] <jdub> Hobbsee: congrats on your new role :)
[03:16] <Hobbsee> jdub: um, thanks?  
[03:17] <infinity> New role?
[03:18] <infinity> Was I stripped of my "most bizarre Australian" title when they discovered I wasn't born here?
[03:18] <Hobbsee> infinity: kubuntu community coordinator, i assume, but i'm not sure how jdub found that out, as i didnt tell pia that yesterday.
[03:18] <jdub> UWN
[03:18] <Hobbsee> and i've had it for a while :P
[03:19] <zul> Hobbsee: heh...we know everything
[03:19] <Hobbsee> zul: no you dont :P
[03:19] <Hobbsee> zul: tell me when my work will next be held up, so i can be prepared with something a little stronger than my voice.
[03:20] <zul> Hobbsee: uh.......january....8th....2013..no...2014
[03:20] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:20] <Hobbsee> right
[03:21] <CarlFK> daily alternate w/ preseed file just started asking "Detect keyboard layout?" and it does it before the preseed file is even loaded. anyone know if this is expected, or should I bug report it?
[03:58] <jamadagni> i'm back
[03:58] <jamadagni> can i ask for help on local repos here or is that ot
[04:02] <TheMuso> jamadagni: You might find you will get more help in #ubuntu-motu.
[04:04] <jamadagni> @TheMuso i'll try there
[04:04] <jamadagni> thanks
[04:09] <jamadagni> noone there
[04:09] <jamadagni> please let me ask it here once
[04:09] <jamadagni> please see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23399
[04:09] <jamadagni> i created a local repo using dpkg-scanpackages
[04:09] <jamadagni> the location of the packages.gz file is /home/samjnaa/is
[04:10] <jamadagni> the location of the packages is /home/samjnaa/ab/_official
[04:11] <jamadagni> what to do?
[04:11] <infinity> What was your dpkg-scanpages command line?
[04:11] <infinity> packages, even.
[04:12] <infinity> Anyhow, you probably just want to add a path prefix of "../.." and you'll beset.
[04:13] <infinity> s/beset/be set/
[04:13] <jamadagni> sudo dpkg-scanpackages /home/samjnaa/ab/_official override.dapper | gzip -9c > Packages.gz
[04:13] <jamadagni> the override-dapper is a cat of many overrides from the indices
[04:14] <infinity> sudo dpkg-scanpackages /home/samjnaa/ab/_official override.dapper ../.. | gzip -9c > Packages.gz
[04:14] <jamadagni> oh ya
[04:14] <jamadagni> i saw the error just now
[04:14] <jamadagni> i could hug you infinity
[04:14] <jamadagni> :D
[04:15] <infinity> I'll hug myself instead, should save you the effort.
[04:15] <bddebian> heh
[04:15] <infinity> And the airfare...
[04:17] <Hobbsee> infinity: jamadagni may have very long arms
[04:22] <jamadagni> well i have long fingers :)
[04:28] <jamadagni> i'm getting too many Package kcoloredit has `Section: universe/graphics', but file is in `kde-3.5.2--koffice-1.5.0' !!
[04:28] <jamadagni> kind of messages because my repo strucrture is different
[04:28] <jamadagni> from what is in the override
[04:28] <jamadagni> seriously do i need to override file or can i use /dev/null as inoput
[04:28] <jamadagni> or is there any other way i can suppress those errors
[04:32] <jamadagni> ok i think i got it bye
[05:16] <imbrandon> crimsun, ping
[05:16] <imbrandon> bddebian, ping also
[05:17] <bddebian> imbrandon: Yessir?
[05:17] <imbrandon> can i get you to eyeball ( even though tech not required ) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3108 , i dunt wanna mess up my first lib package ;)
[05:18] <bddebian> Egads, you want ME to look at a library package? :-)
[05:18] <imbrandon> hehe i figure the more eyeballs the better ;)
[05:19] <imbrandon> its the first time i did a lib package from scratch soo heh
[05:20] <ajmitch> imbrandon: running revu-report on it now
[05:22] <imbrandon> cool thanks ajmitch
[05:22] <imbrandon> revu-report? sounds like something i need in my toolbox heh
[05:22] <ajmitch> imbrandon: it's a tool on tiber
[05:23] <imbrandon> ahh cool
[05:23] <ajmitch> builds & checks some things
[05:23] <imbrandon> nice
[05:23] <ajmitch> so why'd you choose libmtp1?
[05:23] <imbrandon> becouse it was libmtpBROKEN before heh
[05:24] <ajmitch> and why are you missing any sign of shlibs stuff?
[05:24] <imbrandon> probably becouse i havent done a lib package heh thus the input ;)
[05:24] <ajmitch> uh oh
[05:24] <imbrandon> the ubuntu guide dosent cover libs much
[05:24] <imbrandon> s/much/any
[05:25] <imbrandon> so i pretty much dh_make'd it and went from there
[05:25] <bddebian> imbrandon: Nope.  I have a guide though if I can find the damn URL again
[05:25] <imbrandon> nice , yea that would be cool
[05:27] <bddebian> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
[05:28] <bddebian> Hmm no linda and only 1 lintian warning though..
[05:31] <bddebian> Hmm, probably because the .debs are pretty much empty :-)
[07:57] <Kagou> good morning
[07:58] <infinity> Huzzah, I fixed my space bar!
[07:58] <infinity> Take that, IBM.
[07:58] <infinity> This, of course, will be the high point of my day.
[07:58] <infinity> Hobbsee: I don't think I like you anymore.
[07:59] <Hobbsee> infinity: heh
[07:59] <Hobbsee> infinity: is that a good thing then?
[07:59] <infinity> Fixing my space bar, or not liking you?
[07:59] <Hobbsee> infinity: the latter
[07:59] <infinity> I suppose not being liked by me is probably a good thing.
[07:59] <StevenK> Bwahaha
[07:59] <infinity> Though, being liked by me is better than being liked by StevenK. :P
[08:00] <Hobbsee> infinity: yes, i've met StevenK.  quite scary, really.
[08:00] <StevenK> infinity: Keep grinning, I'm reloading. :-P
[08:00] <infinity> Hobbsee: After seeing pictures, I turned down an opportunity to meet him. :)
[08:01] <Hobbsee> infinity: hehe, smart.  i needed him to sign my key though.  both of them.
[08:01] <StevenK> infinity: Hmph
[08:01] <Hobbsee> infinity: you just dont dare to visit sydney.
[08:01] <StevenK> He has done
[08:01] <Hobbsee> silly melbournians :P
[08:02] <Hobbsee> i didnt get a visit :P
[08:03] <infinity> Hobbsee: I've not been to Sydney since I became aware of you, honest.  Or somehting.
[08:03] <infinity> Hobbsee: Not since Ubuntu Down Under, actually.  I'm about due for another visit.  LCA, I suppose.
[08:04] <Hobbsee> infinity: true that.  i guess i'll have to let you off the hook then.
[08:04] <fabbione> morning
[08:04] <Hobbsee> hey fabbione!
[08:06] <Hobbsee> StevenK: what are you thinking about it?
[08:06] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Whether I go or not
[08:06] <Hobbsee> StevenK: well, yeah...
[08:06] <StevenK> Hobbsee: The other point is who from $WORK is going and how that fits in
[08:06] <Hobbsee> StevenK: point.
[08:10] <fabbione> hi Hobbsee 
[08:11] <infinity> StevenK: I doubt I'll be attending the actual conference much (if at all), it's just an opportunity to find a bunch of friends and co-conspirators in one town together, soI'll head in for a day or two to catch up over beers and the like.
[08:11] <Hobbsee> infinity: that's a good idea.
[08:13] <ajmitch> sounds like fun
[08:38] <pitti> Good morning
[08:38] <imbrandon> moins pitti
[08:45] <dholbach> good morning
[08:45] <fabbione> hey dholbach 
[08:46] <dholbach> hey fabbione
[08:47] <lifeless> doko: around ?
[08:58] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir: ping (re: knot 3)
[08:59] <doko> lifeless: pong
[09:00] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: hiya
[09:00] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir: you on track for a release today?
[09:00] <lifeless> https://demo.launchpad.net/products/automake
[09:01] <lifeless> doko: ^ thats the upstream product finding logic in operation on the lp demo sit
[09:01] <lifeless> e
[09:01] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: mostly so, yes.
[09:01] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: making what I hope are the final builds now.
[09:01] <Burgundavia> ok, no worries
[09:02] <lifeless> doko: compare with https://launchpad.net/products/automake
[09:07] <doko> lifeless: where do I see the relation to the version in edgy?
[09:08] <lifeless> doko: thats coming
[09:08] <lifeless> doko: one step at a time man!
[09:09] <doko> lifeless: ok, but that was my original spec (comparing versions in ubuntu with upstream and debian)
[09:09] <lifeless> yes, I realise
[09:10] <lifeless> it needs a packaging record added
[09:11] <lifeless> doko: i.e. : https://demo.launchpad.net/products/automake/1.9
[09:12] <lifeless> doko: I've added the packaging record for the 1.9 series
[09:12] <lifeless> doko: that can be done right now in the production launchpad
[09:13] <lifeless> for each series, its just 'click on 'link to ubuntu package' (to register for edgy), or 'link to any package' (to register for dapper etc)
[09:16] <Kamion> CarlFK: keyboard> it's simultaneously expected and a bug. :-)
[09:17] <CarlFK> hi Kamion
[09:19] <CarlFK> Kamion: I am doing an alternate install on vmplayer - the vm screen (What I see in the window) is ... flipping out...  any idea what I am talking about?
[09:19] <Kamion> CarlFK: none
[09:20] <CarlFK> hmm.  ever done any ubuntu install to vmware?  
[09:21] <Kamion> all the time
[09:21] <Kamion> using workstation more than player though
[09:22] <CarlFK> Kamion:  near the beginning, when it does the video detection and says something about "frame buffer" you see the screen paint a few times.  right?
[09:23] <Kamion> I can't say I've noticed - I sort of take it for granted that it's going to paint the screen more than is perhaps necessary
[09:23] <CarlFK> Kamion: it is installing packages, but doing that screen paint thing
[09:23] <CarlFK> for about an hour
[09:23] <Kamion> what stage exactly? anna, base-installer, pkgsel ...?
[09:25] <CarlFK> hmm, just did a screen shot - seems to be stuck in partman
[09:26] <Burgundavia> CarlFK: could you get me a screenshot of the new uplash?
[09:26] <CarlFK> I am using a preseed file I made from  debconf-get-selections --installer > file debconf-get-selections >> file
[09:26] <alejandro> hi
[09:27] <CarlFK> Burgundavia: sure.  oh yeah - that has issues too :)  (the text didn't display in the little window)
[09:27] <alejandro> CarlFK: can you get working preseed in Ubuntu? 
[09:27] <Burgundavia> CarlFK: a screenshot is great, as long as it can show the new upsplash theme
[09:28] <Kamion> CarlFK: the output of debconf-get-selections --installer will always need tweaking per the documentation
[09:28] <Kamion> I'll update installation-guide soon with recent changes in dgy
[09:28] <Kamion> edgy
[09:28] <Kamion> CarlFK: if it's stuck in partman, please send me /var/log/syslog and /var/log/partman
[09:28] <CarlFK> alejandro: yes, I just need to tweeking it a bit
[09:28] <Kamion> it's unlikely to be particularly vmware-speciffic
[09:28] <CarlFK> :)
[09:29] <Burgundavia> Kamion: is that debugging information useful if it hangs trying to get to the manual partion as well, outside of vmware?
[09:29] <alejandro> CarlFK: ok, here it doesnt work, it gives a /dev/ram0 or /dev/rd0 error when ubuntu boots.
[09:29] <Kamion> Burgundavia: yes
[09:29] <Kamion> alejandro: are you changing the boot arguments?
[09:30] <Kamion> I assume so; are you sure you started with the standard ones?
[09:30] <CarlFK> Kamion: here is the screen shot - im having trouble getting to the F2-vt  http://dev.personnelware.com/carl/temp/Sep14/a/screen1.png
[09:30] <Kamion> in particular, you didn't leave out the initrd by mistake, did you? :)
[09:30] <alejandro> yes, the standard ones and I tried both using ram0 and rd0 with ramfs.
[09:30] <Kamion> ramfs?!
[09:31] <alejandro> Kamion: append vga=normal initrd=initrd-ubuntu ramdisk_size=14332 root=/dev/rd/0 devfs=mount,dall rw
[09:32] <Kamion> alejandro: is that dapper or edgy?
[09:32] <CarlFK> alejandro: here are my boot params: https://launchpad.net/bugs/60338 - make sure you have ramdisk_size=16098  (it changes now and then)
[09:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60338 in base-installer "alternate just started asking "Detect keyboard layout?"" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[09:32] <Kamion> alejandro: standard for both dapper and edgy is root=/dev/ram, not root=/dev/rd/0
[09:32] <Kamion> and lose the devfs=mount,dall
[09:33] <alejandro> Ok, I tried a lot of options. (that is the latest one) :-)
[09:33] <Kamion> I'd also try giving it a full path to the initrd
[09:33] <Kamion> sounds like you're flailing around, I'm afraid :)
[09:33] <Kamion> go back to the start and make the standard images work
[09:33] <Kamion> then tweak one step at a time from that
[09:36] <CarlFK> Kamion: I think the looping is caused by out of memory (VM has 96mb) - free shows 5mb free
[09:37] <CarlFK> and trying to install scp resulted in "Killed"
[09:38] <Burgundavia> mdz: is that email about Hoary EOL going out soon? (wow, is it really 2 years since Mataro...?)
[09:38] <Keybuk> yes
[09:38] <Keybuk> and yet, we can still taste the bags of death
[09:39] <pitti> iwj: the problems is the gtkmozembed breakage
[09:39] <Burgundavia> Red Red Love, baby
[09:39] <iwj> pitti: Ah.  Is that worse in dapper ?  I thought breezy had it too.
[09:39] <pitti> iwj: dapper is not our problem, dapper has 1.5 :)
[09:40] <iwj> I mean, is it worse in our 1.5, which currently means in dapper.
[09:40] <CarlFK> Kamion: I take that back.  the looping caused syslog to be 47mb
[09:40] <pitti> iwj: ah, you mean the time when we have to upgrade dapper to 2.0?
[09:40] <pitti> well, that's a future problem
[09:40] <iwj> No.
[09:41] <Kamion> CarlFK: right, that's what I would have said if you hadn't disappeared :)
[09:41] <Kamion> CarlFK: 96MB is more than enough for an alternate install
[09:41] <iwj> I mean: you say this gtkmozembed breakage is a problem with breezy 1.0 -> 1.5 but isn't the gtkmozembed breakage just the same in our 1.0 (ie current breezy) and our 1.5 (ie current dapper) ?
[09:42] <pitti> iwj: I asked myself the same question; but ISTR that all firefox rdepends broke after installing 1.5 in breezy
[09:42] <iwj> OIC, like that.  I thought you meant the pygtk crasher.
[09:43] <Burgundavia> iwj: 1.5 is not abi compatibile with 1.0 and thus you need to recompile every gecko using app
[09:43] <mdz> Burgundavia: I'm not aware of an email having been written yet
[09:43] <iwj> Burgundavia: Right.
[09:43] <mdz> Burgundavia: but one should be
[09:43] <pitti> Burgundavia: no, that didn't help, I tried that
[09:43] <iwj> pitti: That's strange.
[09:43] <iwj> So why isn
[09:44] <iwj> 't dapper broken ?
[09:44] <pitti> iwj: I don't know, maybe because it has a newer yelp & co
[09:44] <pitti> I really didn't look into it
[09:44] <pitti> I gave up on that when this backporting mailing list and group were bor
[09:44] <pitti> n
[09:45] <iwj> Mmm.
[09:46] <seb128> pitti: breezy GNOME apps should work fine with firefox 1.5
[09:46] <seb128> after a rebuild I mean
[09:46] <pitti> well, I guess I'll try it again
[09:47] <pitti> iwj: do you still have the breezy 1.5 package you prepared some time ago?
[09:47] <iwj> Not sure.  Let me look.
[09:47] <Kamion> isn't pygtkmozembed still broken in dapper?
[09:47] <Kamion> in a "really hard to fix, upstream need to meditate on it" kind of way
[09:48] <pitti> Kamion: AFAIR the problem was with the C gtkmozembed, too, i. e. yelp and friends didn't work any more even after rebuild
[09:48] <iwj> pitti: Yes, at least if we have firefox_1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.4.orig.tar.gz somewhere.
[09:49] <pitti> iwj: hm, we should go straight to 1.5.0.6 anyway, I guess
[09:50] <Mithrandir> Kamion: not bind-mounting all the squashfs-es into /casper, which means ubiquity has to work out which ones to mount by itself.
[09:50] <Mithrandir> or something along those lines.
[09:50] <Kamion> it's going to have to anyway, for stacked filesystems
[09:50] <Kamion> and I already wrote that code a week or two ago
[09:50] <Mithrandir> I think I'll start by chucking the bug in BenC's direction and see if he can come up with a fix/workaround first.
[09:50] <iwj> pitti: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/firefox/ is what I have.  The diff.gz is quite likely to apply without too many problems to 1.5.0.6.
[09:50] <Kamion> it's preseedable and everything
[09:52] <pitti> iwj: ah, thanks
[09:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I think you should find that if you stop bind-mounting the filesystems then ubiquity will just cope
[09:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir: IIRC the last time I checked the filesystems were (presumably accidentally) not properly bind-mounted anyway ...
[09:54] <Mithrandir> Kamion: they _should_ be properly bind-mounted now.  I'll just bind-mount them if the user requests it with a command line option, then
[09:54] <Kamion> yeah, that should be fine post-knot-3
[09:54] <CarlFK> Kamion: the screen repaint (or whatever) is clearing VT shell - how can I kill the installer?
[09:54] <Kamion> as I say, we pretty much need to move to that with stacked filesystems anyway; /rofs as "just base and desktop" doesn't make much sense in the DVD world
[09:55] <Kamion> CarlFK: does ctrl-alt-shift-f2 get you to tty2?
[09:55] <iwj> pitti: I can probably try to help as well if you get stuck, now that I know and can workaround what was making breezy not install for me.
[09:55] <Mithrandir> Kamion: you won't have /rofs, you won't have anything but / which is unionfs then and you'll have to mount and copy yourself, in the right order.  But you probably need that anyway, so it should be fine
[09:56] <pitti> iwj: I would appreciate if we could both work on it, especially since we need to update mozilla and tbird, too
[09:56] <CarlFK> Kamion: well, Alt-f2 does, but as I am typing the screen keeps getting wiped out every few seconds
[09:56] <Keybuk> so I still get the usplash test card ...
[09:56] <Keybuk> what package includes the theme?
[09:57] <iwj> pitti: It would be nice for me not to do only firefox this week :-) but how about I try the breezy firefox backport on Monday ?
[09:57] <CarlFK> Kamion: Alt-f4 gets me to what I call the 'tail -f syslog' screen, Alt-f2 goes back to... working in the dark
[09:58] <infinity> Keybuk: usplash-theme-ubuntu
[09:58] <pitti> iwj: that sounds great
[09:58] <pitti> iwj: I'll go to look at tbird first, if that's fine with you
[09:58] <Kamion> CarlFK: 'killall debian-installer' might do it ...
[09:58] <Keybuk> infinity: that's installed
[09:58] <Kamion> CarlFK: but I think it's probably nothing to do with vmware screen repaint
[09:58] <infinity> Keybuk: Of course, I have no idea if it works, since I disabled usplash the last time it upset me.
[09:59] <Kamion> CarlFK: I think the installer is getting killed and then respawning on the current tty
[09:59] <iwj> pitti: OK
[09:59] <Kamion> CarlFK: so you need to edit it out of /etc/inittab (blind) and kill -HUP init or whatever it is
[09:59] <CarlFK> Kamion: rignt - the screen repaint is just making it hard to work
[09:59] <Kamion> CarlFK: it would be easier to give me a recipe for how I can reproduce this problem
[09:59] <Kamion> and let me deal with it :-)
[09:59] <Kamion> Keybuk: the alternative got stuck for me
[10:00] <Kamion> Keybuk: update-alternatives --auto usplash-artwork.so fixed it
[10:00] <CarlFK> Kamion: recipe comming up
[10:00] <Kamion> I hadn't got round to tracking down who had been subtly misusing update-alternatives in one of the eighteen possible ways that can be done
[10:00] <Kamion> CarlFK: ta
[10:00] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes, it did for me too
[10:00] <Keybuk> Kamion: everyone, simultaneously, usually
[10:01] <Kamion> aye, and generally it's almost unfixable without making the problem worse
[10:01] <Kamion> I really wish there were an official "here is how you use update-alternatives correctly from maintainer scripts" document
[10:02] <Kamion> some years back, I went through all the maintainer scripts on my system and found no fewer than eight different convention
[10:02] <Keybuk> A. Don't
[10:02] <Keybuk> ? :p
[10:02] <Kamion> s
[10:02] <Kamion> I collected this together and filed it as a policy bug, saying "please tell us all which one to use"
[10:02] <Keybuk> ok, so update the alternative AND update the initram
[10:02] <Keybuk> fs
[10:02] <Kamion> I'm not sure that's ever had a satisfactory response, possibly because nobody actually knows
[10:03] <Keybuk> Kamion: btw, why is the console black and white
[10:03] <Keybuk> is that you or garrett?
[10:04] <infinity> Mine's not black and white.  I'd like to know why I got this godawful new console font by default, though.
[10:04] <infinity> Spindly-looking piece of...
[10:06] <Keybuk> infinity: I've had that font come and go
[10:06] <Keybuk> right now, for instance, I don't have it
[10:06] <Keybuk> but last time I booted, I did
[10:06] <infinity> ...
[10:06] <infinity> Special.
[10:06] <Kamion> Keybuk: wasn't the console always black and white? :) or do you mean the svga thing?
[10:06] <Kamion> Keybuk: I haven't touched the svga backend
[10:07] <Keybuk> Kamion: I mean that all colour has gone from it
[10:07] <Kamion> infinity: that's console-setup; I may change the default for Latin away from terminus
[10:07] <infinity> I've been getting the new spindly font since I rebooted a few days back.
[10:07] <Keybuk> if I type ls, it's in various shades of grey
[10:07] <Kamion> some people like it, some don't
[10:07] <Kamion> dpkg-reconfigure console-setup if you don't
[10:07] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, I'll change it back to something sane.  This one doesn't agree with me at all.
[10:07] <Keybuk> Kamion: why do I only get it sometimes?
[10:08] <Kamion> Keybuk: probably because setupcon isn't always managing to work at boot?
[10:08] <pitti> infinity: how do you guys get the new console font? Mine didn't change for literally years
[10:08] <Kamion> Keybuk: I bet if you run setupcon for a console post-boot, it'll chang
[10:08] <Kamion> e
[10:08] <Kamion> pitti: it's new with console-setup
[10:08] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes, it does
[10:08] <Kamion> which is, well, new. :)
[10:08] <Keybuk> Kamion: want a bug?
[10:08] <Kamion> Keybuk: if you could hack your init scripts to strace -f setupcon, that would be useful
[10:09] <Kamion> I can't do a lot with a bare "doesn't work" bug, but I might be able to dig it out of a trace when it doesn't work
[10:09] <Kamion> and I do want a bug in the latter case
[10:10] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir: I am going to bed, up again in 5 or 6 hours to finish up the page. If you send out the announcement before then, link to the wiki page and I deal with it
[10:10] <infinity> Ahh, good ol' "VGA", how I missed you.
[10:10] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: 'k, thanks.
[10:10] <Keybuk> infinity: you're very odd ... you know that, right?
[10:10] <Kamion> VGA and Fixed actually have better language coverage than Terminus, ironically
[10:10] <pitti> Kamion: is there deliberately no amd64 in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20060914/ ?
[10:11] <thom> Keybuk: if you're only just realising that you're _very_ slow :-)
[10:11] <Kamion> I get the impression that Anton just loves Terminus and set it as the default for the languages that could handle it (basically Latin and Cyrillic scripts)
[10:11] <janimo> pitti: ok with me fixing a bug in foomatic-db which till pointed to in CVS? The one I found that crashed the fedora printing tool
[10:11] <Kamion> pitti: that indicates a build failure, see the logs on http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/
[10:11] <infinity> Keybuk: I'm aware that VGA isn't a very readable font, but I've been reading it since I first got an IBM PC in the mid-80's, so my brain parses it at lightning speed.
[10:11] <janimo> pitti: is's search and replace 68/65 in a printer description xml file
[10:11] <pitti> janimo: of course, go ahead :)
[10:11] <Kamion> Terminus is explicitly intended to reduce eyestrain
[10:11] <pitti> janimo: ah, I remember that
[10:11] <pitti> janimo: however, please coordinate with Till, we might want a complete upstream update anyway
[10:12] <janimo> pitti: till also pointed to another bug during that discussion re LJ1100 or similar bug which he said we should get in and if I touch the package I may upload that as well
[10:12] <janimo> however I know nothing of that bug
[10:12] <Kamion> oh, I see
[10:12] <Kamion> pitti: will fix
[10:12] <Kamion> after meeting
[10:12] <janimo> pitti: a complete upstream would be better of course, I know nothing about their release sched and how if affects out FF though
[10:13] <pitti> Kamion: ah, thanks
[10:13] <Keybuk> Kamion: then why is it so light?
[10:13] <Keybuk> terminus is definitely not as easy to read as VGA
[10:14] <infinity> Keybuk: You may just be suffering from the same thing I am.
[10:14] <infinity> Keybuk: Terminus *is* easier on the eyes, but it's also a pain to parse for someone who's been reading VGA for the last 20 years.
[10:14] <Keybuk> I'm just referring to the fact that VGA appears white
[10:14] <Keybuk> and that Terminus appears a kind of dark grey
[10:14] <Keybuk> nowhere near as contrasty
[10:14] <infinity> Eyes playing tricks on you because it's thinner?
[10:15] <infinity> The boldness of VGA may make it seem whiter because you've got more bright pixels yelling at you.
[10:15] <janimo> Kamion: fixed up python-cups according to to the policy and also uploaded system-config-printer to NEW
[10:15] <Mithrandir> Riddell: new kubuntu images for you, btw, both desktop and alternate.
[10:16] <Kamion> Keybuk: *shrug* dunno, I'm just quoting the stated purpose in the readme
[10:16] <Kamion> ask Anton :)
[10:17] <CarlFK> what text editor exists in the installer?  (so I can edit inittab)
[10:17] <Riddell> Mithrandir: great, just what I need before breakfast
[10:17] <Keybuk> you probably don't want to edit inittab
[10:18] <Keybuk> given it's largely ignored
[10:18] <Kamion> CarlFK: nano
[10:18] <Keybuk> and probably doesn't even exist on fresh installs
[10:18] <Kamion> Keybuk: in the *installer*
[10:18] <Kamion> it still exists
[10:18] <Kamion> ignore Keybuk :)
[10:18] <Keybuk> Kamion: alternate?
[10:18] <Kamion> we're not using upstart in the installer ;)
[10:18] <Kamion> Keybuk: yes
[10:18] <Keybuk> ah, I assumed LiveCD
[10:18] <Keybuk> at which point, of course, you have an entire distro
[10:18] <Keybuk> ignore me :p
[10:18] <Kamion> CarlFK generally uses the alternate CD for preseeding work
[10:18] <Kamion> know thy users ;)
[10:19] <tkamppeter> janimo, pitti, a complete upstream update of foomatic-db to today's snapshot does not only fix the two Ubuntu bugs which you mentioned here, but it also adds entries for 20 Toshiba PostScript printers, around 5 new HP inkjets (supported by HPLIP 1.6.7), 5 Samsung GDI lasers (work with ESP GhostScript's "gdi" driver or with the new Splix driver, and AFAIR there was also a Ubuntu bug report of missing Samsung printer entries).
[10:19] <pitti> tkamppeter: sounds like a good excuse for an UVF exception
[10:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I've repaired amd64 live CD builds; you may want to rebuild any you care about
[10:20] <pitti> tkamppeter: can you please mail mdz with a complete changelog for approval?
[10:20] <tkamppeter> So we fix 3 Ubuntu bug reports and add many new printers.
[10:20] <Mithrandir> Kamion: as of when?
[10:20] <Keybuk> Kamion: bug #60347  (with strace)
[10:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60347 in joybot "Joybot has no way of specifying whether an attack is energy or physical" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60347
[10:20] <Keybuk> no, not that bug
[10:20] <janimo> tkamppeter, pitti, good idea, as I just noticed the package has no patch system to easily add small upstream fixes only
[10:20] <Keybuk> bug #60357
[10:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60357 in console-setup "Does not set the nasty new font" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60357
[10:20] <Keybuk> :p
[10:21] <tkamppeter> pitti, here is the complete ChangeLog, look at everything newer than the date in the original tarball name of the current foomatic-db. http://www.linuxprinting.org/foomatic-db/ChangeLog
[10:21] <Kamion> Mithrandir: about two minutes ago
[10:21] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it wasn't handling the amd64-generic -> generic kernel rename
[10:21] <pitti> tkamppeter: mdz needs to approve, not I; can you please mail him with the URL? (mdz@ubuntu.com)
[10:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: oh, just the live _cd_, not livefs?
[10:21] <Kamion> Keybuk: strace *-f*
[10:21] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah
[10:22] <janimo> tkamppeter: are there releases of foomatic-db upstream? I see debian is a few snapshots ahead of us
[10:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, thanks, running now.
[10:22] <Kamion> Keybuk: I need at least the consolechars subprocess
[10:22] <Kamion> Keybuk: actually -s 1024 wouldn't hurt either
[10:22] <janimo> but I dont' know if they are taken at arbitrary point in time or according to upstream releases
[10:22] <Mithrandir> Riddell: you might want to hold off your desktop cd downloads for a little bit, then
[10:22] <Keybuk> Kamion: oops, sorry
[10:23] <tkamppeter> There are not really releases of the Foomatic database. From the database every night a snapshot is taken.
[10:27] <mdz> tkamppeter: have you already talked with doko about updating hplip?
[10:28] <mdz> tkamppeter: I also suggested that he talk with you about the status of printing in oo.o and make sure that it is in good shape
[10:30] <MrFaber> hi all
[10:32] <MrFaber> Does anyone know the reason why dynamic scaling doesn't react on kernel load? It only reacts on app load. Both ondemand and powernowd seems to don't recognize kernel load. If you use loop encryption or emulators with modules the cpu runs always with the lowes frequenzy until some app uses much.
[10:37] <Keybuk> Kamion: appears to be usplash related
[10:37] <Keybuk> ie. setupcon doesn't work if usplash is running
[10:38] <Keybuk> and the second one (run by usplash) doesn't work because X is running
[10:39] <jamadagni> hello my friends
[10:41] <tkamppeter> pitti, mdz, exception request for foomatic-db sent -> biff
[10:41] <tkamppeter> doko, are you here?
[10:42] <doko> pitti, tkamppeter: what do you think about an hplip update?
[10:42] <doko> tkamppeter: a few more minutes, then going offline for an hour
[10:42] <tkamppeter> doko, I think it is very important, was there not already the apptopriate UVF ER?
[10:43] <doko> tkamppeter: I don't think so.
[10:43] <doko> (the exception)
[10:43] <tkamppeter> HPLIP needs to be updated as a lot is done to improve fax, also the newest models added by the UVF ER for foomatic-db are supported then
[10:44] <tkamppeter> In the UVF ER for HPLIP we also need to request the update of foomatic-db-hpijs so that CUPS auto-generates the appropriate new PPDs.
[10:45] <tkamppeter> doko, what is your mail address?
[10:45] <doko> same as the nick
[10:46] <tkamppeter> doko, pitti, mdz: bug 51573
[10:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51573 in dapper-backports "Please update HPLIP to 1.6.7" [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51573
[10:51] <pitti> re
[10:53] <CarlFK> Kamion: this tell you anything usefull? http://dev.personnelware.com/carl/temp/Sep14/a/screen2.png
[10:55] <Kamion> Keybuk: do you have an updated strace? I may be able to fix consolechars
[10:55] <Kamion> CarlFK: no, it's just out of memory and doing random crap
[10:55] <Kamion> (most likely)
[10:56] <CarlFK> Kamion: I think this may be causing it: anna-install openssh-client-udeb  
[10:56] <CarlFK> whatever it is ..
[10:57] <CarlFK> that is from my "early_command.sh" which keeps getting downloaded and run
[10:57] <Kamion> that should be harmless
[10:58] <Kamion> have you sent me the recipe?
[10:58] <tkamppeter> mdz, doko, pitti: Now the UVF ER for HPLIP 1.6.7 + foomatic-db-hpijs (current snapshot) is out --> biff
[10:58] <CarlFK> still trying to figure out what parts are needed 
[10:58] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes, just fiddling atm, sorry
[11:00] <pitti> tkamppeter: thanks
[11:02] <jamadagni> i need to ask a q here about local/remote repos
[11:02] <jamadagni> didn't get from ubuntu-motu
[11:03] <pitti> jamadagni: better just ask instead of asking to ask
[11:04] <jamadagni> pitti sorry
[11:04] <jamadagni> just didn't want to go ot without permission
[11:05] <pitti> jamadagni: don't worry, if it's off topic, someone will lart you with or without permission :)
[11:05] <jamadagni> "lart"?
[11:05] <pitti> jamadagni: (just kidding, just go ahead)
[11:05] <jamadagni>  i have a local repo with tidy and libtidy. these are also present on the remote repos. same version in both places.
[11:05] <jamadagni> the local repo is configured before the remote repo in sources.list
[11:05] <Keybuk> Kamion: ok, strace attached
[11:05] <jamadagni> but apt-get goes and gets the remote file when i do apt-get install tidy
[11:06] <jamadagni> i remove the remote repo from the list then i try to install, then it takes the local file
[11:06] <jamadagni> why?
[11:06] <Kamion> make sure the local repository is first in the list; apt breaks ties by sources.list order
[11:06] <pitti> jamadagni: that's an mvo question, but I assumed that earlier repos were considered first, too
[11:06] <CarlFK> Kamion: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/60362
[11:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60362 in Ubuntu "preseed partman loop " [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[11:06] <Kamion> oh, you already said that
[11:06] <jamadagni> mvo?
[11:07] <Kamion> CarlFK: ok, I'll get to that this morning
[11:07] <CarlFK> let me know if you need more pxe setup info 
[11:07] <pitti> jamadagni: you are sure that you apt-get update'd and everything?
[11:07] <jamadagni> ya
[11:07] <mvo> jamadagni: is your local repo signed? or a file:// uri?
[11:08] <pitti> jamadagni: apt-cache policy tidy looks good?
[11:08] <pitti> (I have the same configuration in my chroots - local file:// mirror, then http://archive, and it Just Works (tm) )
[11:09] <Kamion> CarlFK: could you attach the preseed file please? (feel free to strip passwords or whatever)
[11:09] <jamadagni> i get installed none; candidate 20051018-1 and version table
[11:09] <CarlFK> just attached
[11:09] <jamadagni> i removed tidy after testing lastt time
[11:09] <jamadagni> mvo: local repo is *not* signed
[11:10] <jamadagni> it's a file:///home/username uri
[11:10] <Kamion> meh, I'm not sure I want to support preseeding by starting from debconf-get-selections --installer
[11:10] <Kamion> there's such an enormous amount of crap in there
[11:10] <jamadagni> i suspected as much that apt-get might prefer a signed over unsigned repo
[11:10] <jamadagni> is that why
[11:10] <Kamion> I should make debconf-get-selections sort by question name, for a marginal increase in clarity
[11:11] <mvo> jamadagni: what is the output of apt-cache policy tidy? that should give a clue
[11:12] <Kamion> oh, that turns out to be hard, sigh
[11:12] <CarlFK> Kamion: is there a kernel param I can pass to satisfy the keyboard questions?
[11:12] <Kamion> CarlFK: I don't know yet
[11:13] <Kamion> console-setup is new and I haven't looked at its preseedability yet
[11:13] <CarlFK> ok.  It is only 3 keystorks... but I think I have done it about 20 times in the last few hours :)
[11:13] <Kamion> d-i     partman-auto/disk       string  /dev/discs/disc0/disc
[11:14] <Kamion> hmm, that shouldn't be using /dev/discs any more
[11:14] <Kamion> was that something you did manually?
[11:14] <CarlFK> nope - didn't touch foo.cfg
[11:14] <Kamion> CarlFK: and definitely current edgy?
[11:14] <jamadagni> mvo: while i wait for paste.ubuntu.nl to load, i repeat that the local repo is not signed
[11:14] <Kamion> because /dev/discs isn't there any more
[11:15] <jamadagni> mvo: could that be the reason?
[11:15] <Kamion> CarlFK: I mean, did you generate the preseed file from a current edgy install? not knot 2, absolutely current
[11:15] <CarlFK> Kamion: ouch.  i 'thinik' so, but now I am starting to wonder 
[11:15] <Kamion> that would be my guess as to the problem
[11:16] <mvo> jamadagni: it could, but if the local version is newer than the archive version thatn it should still use the local one. if they are the same version, than apt will fetch the signed one (always)
[11:16] <Kamion> I'll feed the preseed file to my system anyway and see what happens; undoubtedly we can do something better than looping
[11:16] <Kamion> although your preseed file probably isn't helping by preseeding absolutely everything under the sun
[11:16] <CarlFK> Kamion: that was just an attempt to figure out the keyboard parameters :)
[11:16] <Kamion> the installation guide does say:
[11:16] <Kamion> However, a file generated in this manner will have some items that should
[11:16] <Kamion> not be preseeded, and the example file is a better starting place for most
[11:16] <Kamion> users.
[11:17] <Kamion> CarlFK: consider console-setup preseeding broken until I've had a chance to look into it
[11:17] <jamadagni> mvo: if so, should it be added to the apt-get documentation?
[11:17] <mvo> jamadagni: that sounds reasonable
[11:17] <jamadagni> mvo: cause i tried searching man:apt-get for the word "sign" but nicht results
[11:18] <CarlFK> Kamion: ok. I'll go to bed now :)
[11:18] <mvo> jamadagni: try man apt-secure
[11:19] <Kamion> CarlFK: I do plan to sort it out this week
[11:23] <jamadagni> mvo: ok i'll try signing my repo.
[11:24] <jamadagni> mvo: is it enough to create a dummy release file and sign it using gpg and create a public.key fgile?
[11:24] <mvo> jamadagni: make sure to add your key to apts keyring with apt-key add 
[11:25] <jamadagni> mvo: oh so it's not enough if my own gpg trusts it
[11:26] <mvo> jamadagni: oh, use apt-key list to see what apt trusts
[11:26] <jono> am I going nuts, or is it normal for my windows not to wobble or spin around by default in edgy?
[11:27] <jamadagni> mvo: my key is placed last
[11:27] <jamadagni> mvo: after i did apt-key add
[11:27] <mvo> jamadagni: that is expected
[11:29] <jamadagni> mvo: i did another apt-get update after adding the key and *still* apt-get goes to the remote repo
[11:29] <jamadagni> i mean apt-get install
[11:30] <Keybuk> jono: normal
[11:30] <Keybuk> you can install compiz if you want them to
[11:31] <jono> Keybuk,  it is planned to have my windows wobble by default if 3D accelleration is available? I have been reading the thread about compiz on ubuntu-devel but don't know enough about the area really
[11:32] <Keybuk> jono: I don't know ... I hope not :p
[11:32] <jono> Keybuk, bah, your no fun :P
[11:32] <jamadagni> mvo: have i tired you?
[11:33] <jamadagni> mvo: i do ask a lot of q-s
[11:33] <tseng> is there no longer a desktop smp kernel?
[11:33] <tseng> the default -386 only sees one cpu
[11:33] <jamadagni> tseng, why don't you install 686-smp
[11:34] <tseng> maybe -686 has the detection algo?
[11:34] <mvo> jamadagni: I do other stuff beside irc, that is why I may have some lack when answering
[11:34] <jamadagni> there are no 386 smp systems in the world, rae there?
[11:34] <jamadagni> mvo: i was not ocmplaining
[11:34] <jamadagni> mvo: i was just hoping i didn't bug you too much, sincerely
[11:34] <tseng> i believe there are some 586's
[11:34] <tseng> but i dont see a 686-smp in edgy
[11:34] <jamadagni> tseng-  ok maybe but you get only a 386 and 686 kernel with ubuntu
[11:35] <ajmitch> tseng: names have changed
[11:35] <tseng> jamadagni: this is tangential, btw
[11:35] <jamadagni> http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/base/linux-686-smp
[11:35] <jamadagni> tseng - of course (tangential = ~ot, right?)
[11:35] <ajmitch> tseng: go for -generic
[11:35] <tseng> ajmitch: right on
[11:35] <CarlFK> what would a pPro use?  (i have a quad pPro-200 I may use for it's raid)
[11:36] <Kamion> -generic
[11:36] <tseng> thanks ajmitch
[11:37] <fabbione> Keybuk: ping?
[11:37] <carlos> pitti, seb128, dholbach: Hi, would be possible to fix gnome-desktop's documentation to generate the .pot file on build time? I only get .po files for it
[11:37] <Keybuk> fabbione: heyhey
[11:37] <seb128> carlos: do we do something with the documentation?
[11:37] <fabbione> Keybuk: ok. i am in initramfs now wirh root on raid and root=someUUID
[11:37] <fabbione> Keybuk i can see that mdadm did start the raid correctly
[11:37] <carlos> seb128: there are many packages already fixed
[11:37] <seb128> carlos: I'm not really happy to have things listed to rosetta for which ones we don't use what people do
[11:37] <carlos> seb128: when upstream uses .po files to translate it, we import them
[11:38] <seb128> carlos: yeah, and I think that's just misleading
[11:38] <fabbione> Keybuk how can i kick udev the canonical way to crete the uuid symlink?
[11:38] <fabbione> Keybuk because that clearly seems not to be there
[11:38] <seb128> carlos: because people spend time to translate that on rosetta and we don't use their translation
[11:38] <carlos> seb128: well, I guess it's just a matter of improve our system to ship them
[11:38] <seb128> right
[11:38] <seb128> but I think we should list them until we ship them
[11:38] <seb128> shouldn't list
[11:38] <Keybuk> fabbione: echo -n add > /sys/.../uevent
[11:38] <seb128> because people are wasting efforts on that
[11:39] <Kamion> Keybuk: hmm, consolechars seems to be managing to set the font - I'm wondering if usplash is setting it back when it restores the console
[11:39] <fabbione> Keybuk is that a path to what?
[11:39] <Keybuk> fabbione: whenever you want to kick udev about
[11:39] <fabbione> Keybuk ok.. let me try
[11:39] <Keybuk> the block device, in this case
[11:40] <Kamion> [pid  4833]  write(2, "Loading 256-chars 8x16 font from file `/usr/share/consolefonts/Lat15-Terminus16.psf.gz\'.\n", 89) = 89
[11:40] <Kamion> [pid  4833]  ioctl(3, KDFONTOP, 0xbfb4db2c) = 0
[11:41] <carlos> seb128: well, we should fix it anyway, that's something to fix, I agree, and as in the mean time, the priority should 'hide' them over the ones we already use
[11:41] <Kamion> Keybuk: when this happens to you, are the fonts on all the ttys the same, or is it just tty1 that's using the VGA font?
[11:43] <fabbione> Keybuk: ok one step forward.. i was able to add md0 that was also root by coincidence, but not md1
[11:43] <fabbione> Keybuk: anyway we already have some data
[11:43] <Keybuk> Kamion: all
[11:43] <fabbione> let me login from the other box
[11:44] <Kamion> Keybuk: and it was definitely like that (with all ttys having failed to change font) after the strace you supplied?
[11:44] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes
[11:44] <Kamion> freaky
[11:48] <pitti> hey lloydinho 
[11:48] <lloydinho> hi pitti! 
[11:50] <Mithrandir> hmm, example-content seems to be missing from the livefs?
[11:50] <Tonio_> hi
[11:51] <fabbione> Keybuk: ok.. figured all out.. it's enough to kick udev before mounting root (of course)
[11:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it's a recommends - I have a bad feeling ...
[11:51] <fabbione> Keybuk: nevermind the md1 thingy.. it was my bad setup. it's all good.
[11:51] <Kamion> I bet the livefs build process isn't following recommends by default
[11:51] <Kamion> infinity: ping
[11:51] <Mithrandir> Kamion: so the livefs is built without recommends.  :-(
[11:51] <fabbione> Keybuk: now.. how do we want to kick udev in the right way and from what package?
[11:51] <Kamion> and it can't follow recommends globally, it'll get too big
[11:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: he's not around now.
[11:52] <Keybuk> fabbione: the interesting point here is why do we need to kick udev
[11:52] <Keybuk> but let's not worry about that for now
[11:52] <Kamion> aaaaaaaaand the Task headers in the archive aren't including recommends properly rigt now
[11:52] <Kamion> right
[11:52] <Keybuk> does the kick need to happen after mdrun?
[11:52] <Kamion> so, uh
[11:52] <fabbione> Keybuk: i hounestly have no idea.. echo -n add /... did work and created the proper by-uuid symlink
[11:52] <Keybuk> fabbione: was it a /sys/block thing you did?
[11:52] <fabbione> Keybuk: yes.. after mdrun
[11:53] <Keybuk> try adding udevtrigger -b && udevsettle to the mdrun script afterwards
[11:53] <fabbione> and the path for me was /sys/block/md*/uevent basically
[11:53] <Keybuk> (kick all block devices and wait for udev to process them)
[11:53] <madduck> argh. mdrun.
[11:53] <fabbione> oh
[11:53] <fabbione> feh ok i can do it...
[11:53] <Mithrandir> Kamion: so, what's a useful workaround for that?
[11:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir: right now, I can't think of anything not involving infinity
[11:53] <Kamion> mvo: any ideas?
[11:54] <Mithrandir> Kamion: make the recommends hard depends, build livefs-es, make them recommends again?
[11:54] <Mithrandir> (no, not nice)
[11:56] <janimo> pitti: when you're in review mode again please remember gxine ;)
[11:57] <Kamion> Mithrandir: we could fix the Task fields on drescher, get sysadmin to frob the livefs script to use tasks rather than metapackages, build livefses, let infinity clean up later
[11:58] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, is frobbing the livefs script trivial?
[11:58] <Mithrandir> it uses apt-get, not aptitude, doesn't it?
[11:58] <slomo> janimo: you want gxine for xubuntu as movie player? do you already have something as music player? :)
[11:58] <fabbione> Keybuk: that did work just fine.. 
[11:59] <fabbione> Keybuk: do you need more data/info?
[11:59] <Keybuk> fabbione: ok, it's a good patch for now ... we'll investigate _why_ we need that another time
[11:59] <Kamion> Mithrandir: switching it to aptitude install ~t wouldn't actually be hard, I don't think
[11:59] <Keybuk> feel free to upload fixed mdrun after knot 3 freeze
[11:59] <janimo> slomo: no music player for now
[11:59] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm just worried about what else'll break if we do that, but yeah, it's probably the best way to do it.
[11:59] <janimo> and yes I want gxine to replace xfmedia
[11:59] <fabbione> Keybuk: ok. works for me. i have the setup, it's just annoying to access it.
[11:59] <fabbione> brb
[12:00] <janimo> not just me, most people agreed on this
[12:00] <slomo> janimo: i guess that's a fairly good choice ;) do you already have any candidates that could be used as music player?
[12:01] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'm thinking hard about the dapper germinate backport now
[12:01] <janimo> slomo: no candidate which does not dep on some form of mp3 lib
[12:01] <janimo> do you have decent proposals?
[12:02] <Mithrandir> Kamion: stop the publisher?
[12:03] <Kamion> Mithrandir: not needed?
[12:03] <Mithrandir> (since I suspect you'll need to republish to regenerate the Packages file)
[12:03] <slomo> janimo: hum... anything that uses gstreamer (quodlibet or bmpx should've no gnome dependencies), anything that uses xine (i only know about amarok and you definitely don't want kde dependencies but there are probably more than this)
[12:05] <pitti> argh, it seems this bug returns in every release - snd-powermac is not in /etc/modules
[12:05] <Kamion> pitti: deliberate this time
[12:05] <pitti> Kamion: what is the correct source package for filing something about /etc/modules?
[12:05] <Kamion> pitti: snd-powermac crashes some G5s apparently
[12:05] <pitti> oh
[12:05] <Kamion> pitti: hw-detect, but I'm sorry, I don't think I'm going to revert this on
[12:05] <Kamion> e
[12:06] <Kamion> unless I can find some better way to detect the machines that it crashes
[12:06] <pitti> oh, too bad; that's something for the release notes then?
[12:06] <Kamion> probably, yeah
[12:06] <Kamion> 2.6.18 will fix it properly
[12:06] <Kamion> (AIUI)
[12:06] <pitti> ok, thanks, then I won't bother filing a bug
[12:06] <Kamion> feel free to file a bug by way of documentation
[12:06] <Kamion> I have plenty ;)
[12:06] <janimo> slomo: sine we alreday have xine we won't put gstreamer as well. And there seem to be no simple xine based players
[12:07] <pitti> Kamion: ok :)
[12:10] <slomo> janimo: ok, no idea then :(
[12:10] <pitti> seb128: not sure whether it's fschoep's bug our gtk's: the current desktop background's note about 'artwork preview' is partially hidden by the bottom panel
[12:11] <seb128> pitti: the background fits the screen, the panel is on top of it, and panel didn't change ... I would say that's artwork bog :)
[12:11] <fabbione> Mithrandir: permission to upload mdadm. one line change to fix / on raid. it's NOT a knot-3 blocker. it would be nice to have but it's not a mandatory thingy
[12:11] <seb128> pitti: the text should be placed uper
[12:11] <madduck> fabbione: what's the one line change?
[12:12] <pitti> seb128: the background stretches over the whole screen, it does not end at the upper panel edge
[12:12] <seb128> pitti: correct
[12:12] <pitti> seb128: if I move the panel elsewhere, I see the full text
[12:12] <seb128> pitti: you can have a transparent panel you know? ;)
[12:12] <pitti> seb128: ok, so backgrounds have to be designed with that in mind?
[12:12] <seb128> pitti: correct
[12:12] <fabbione> madduck: +udevtrigger -b && udevsettle at the bottom of initramfs local-top script
[12:12] <pitti> seb128: yes, I just want to understand it fully
[12:12] <pitti> seb128: thanks for the confirmation
[12:13] <seb128> pitti: background takes the full screen
[12:13] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you can upload, but I won't have it accepted until after knot is out; we need to stabilise now.
[12:13] <fabbione> madduck: it's required to fix root on raid when we moung by-uuid
[12:13] <Mithrandir> fabbione: sorry. :-/
[12:13] <seb128> pitti: panel is just an object you move on screen like a window
[12:13] <seb128> pitti: np
[12:13] <pitti> seb128: ok, I'll file an u-artwork bug then
[12:13] <fabbione> Mithrandir: sure.. no problem... as i said it's not a blocker.. if it can make it good.. otherwise it's still good
[12:13] <seb128> ok
[12:13] <dholbach> pitti: edgy-wallpapers
[12:14] <pitti> dholbach: ah, thanks
[12:14] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I've uploaded the germinate backport and RTed it
[12:15] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks.
[12:15] <Kamion> then it needs two cron.daily runs
[12:18] <Mithrandir> they'll grab it out of the unapproved queue or something?
[12:22] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I stuck in on chinstrap for them. It's installed on drescher now
[12:22] <Kamion> s/in/it/
[12:22] <madduck> fabbione: ah, so it's ubuntu-only. thanks.
[12:25] <stub> Launchpad is going down in 15 minutes for hardware maintenance on our database server. Estimated down time is 15 minutes.
[12:26] <Kamion> stub: argh; is it critical now?
[12:27] <stub> Dud ram. We have no way of knowing when it screw up badly enough to crash or corrupt.
[12:27] <Kamion> oof
[12:27] <Kamion> stub: can you make sure cron.daily has finished on drescher before shutting down, at least?
[12:28] <Kamion> I'd like not to incur more one-hour penalties than we have to
[12:28] <stub> Already done that - I disabled it before this hours run
[12:28] <Mithrandir> Kamion: can you byhand the publisher for the next two runs then so we have the runs back-to-back
[12:29] <Kamion> oh, I was hoping we might have got an extra run out of it
[12:29] <Kamion> Mithrandir: certainly
[12:29] <Kamion> stub: please let me know when it's back up and I'll drive the publisher
[12:29] <stub> Kamion: ok
[12:34] <pitti> Kamion: just to confirm that this is right: In an OEM install, I get a 'which software should be installed? [ ]  Ubuntu desktop' question, I don't get it on a standard alternate install
[12:37] <Kamion> pitti: whoops! fixed, thanks
[12:37] <Kamion> was a cdimage bug
[12:38] <pitti> Kamion: this question might be quite nice in an expert install :)
[12:38] <pitti> Kamion: i. e. does the standard install now have it as well, or the oem install doesn't have it any more?
[12:39] <Kamion> pitti: I agree, haven't quite figured out how to get expert to un-preseed it there
[12:39] <Kamion> pitti: the oem install no longer has it
[12:39] <pitti> ah, ok
[12:39] <Kamion> pitti: please file a bug about it not appearing in expert mode, on /products/ubuntu-cdimage
[12:39] <pitti> I didn't test expert yet, but sure, I'll file a bug since you are sure about it
[12:40] <Kamion> yeah, it's preseeded and therefore marked as seen
[12:40] <pitti> whoops, LP is down for maintenance
[12:40] <Kamion> sorry, I assumed you'd seen it from your comment
[12:41] <pitti> Kamion: it was off by default, btw (I assume that the preseeding enables it instead of just marking as 'seen')
[12:41] <Kamion> s/instead of/as well as/
[12:42] <Kamion> yeah, not quite sure what to do about the default - reconciling handling of CDs and netboot is difficult
[12:42] <pitti> ah
[12:42] <Kamion> tasksel's pretty flexible though, so I probably just need to sit down and have a long talk with it
[12:45] <Kamion> mvo: so your plan is to have apt install recommends by default for metapackages but not for everything else, right?
[12:46] <mvo> Kamion: yes
[12:47] <mvo> Kamion: at least for edgy, we can switch on recommends-by-default for edgy+1 (but then we should do it very early)
[12:49] <Kamion> mvo: we're going to need a partial backport of that for the livefs build script
[12:50] <Kamion> mvo: can you discuss that with infinity when he's around?
[01:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, publisher running
[01:11] <elmo> what's the kernel pseudo package in LP for bugs?
[01:11] <mvo> Keybuk: I would like to request a new apt/python-apt for dapper-backports. is it easier if I do that upload myself? or do you have some soyuz magic that makes it easy/straightforward?
[01:14] <Keybuk> mvo: we have some amount of magic
[01:14] <Keybuk> though backports is completely hosed
[01:14] <Keybuk> I really wouldn't try and backport apt at this point :p
[01:16] <pitti> \o/ usplash on ppc - /me hugs Kamion
[01:17] <mvo> Keybuk: hm .. just hosed for soyuz magic? or hosed in general? do you have any (rough)  idea if/when things get better there?
[01:17] <Keybuk> hosed in soyuz
[01:17] <Keybuk> you'd only get one version, on one architecture
[01:18] <mvo> Keybuk: I was wondering if I could use it to get a apt-that^Wwith-breaks for the dist-upgrader, but things look not very bright there it seems :/
[01:26] <pitti> hm, today's ppc live CD shows usplash, then a black screen with two (normal) kernel messages, and now it just sits around without any progress
[01:26] <pitti> Keybuk: can I enable boot logging as a boot option?
[01:27] <Keybuk> pitti: not yet
[01:28] <pitti> hmm; any idea how I can find out what's going on?
[01:28] <Keybuk> probably just fsck
[01:28] <pitti> Keybuk: how? it's the live CD
[01:29] <pitti> erm, I meant s/logging/message displaing/
[01:29] <Keybuk> you can't
[01:30] <pitti> ok
[01:37] <pitti> slomo: AYT?
[01:44] <MrFaber> Does anyone know the reason why dynamic scaling doesn't react on kernel load? It only reacts on app load. Both ondemand and powernowd seems to don't recognize kernel load. If you use loop encryption or emulators with modules the cpu runs always with the lowest frequency until some apps instead of modules uses much.
[01:45] <pitti> Kamion: FYI, the live CD enables snd-powermac
[01:47] <Kamion> pitti: yeah, casper appears to
[01:47] <Kamion> pitti: maybe it's best to leave that on, so that users have an option either way
[01:47] <pitti> Kamion: shall I file a bug about removing it as well there?
[01:47] <Kamion> dunno
[01:48] <Kamion> *shrug* I don't want to knee-jerk, should check over the details with Ben
[01:48] <pitti> Kamion: ok; maybe we can put some grep /proc/cpuinfo into the casper script
[01:48] <Kamion> it's not that simple, I don't think
[01:49] <Kamion> usually when people say "G5" they actually mean "certain chipsets that happened to generally ship with G5s"
[01:49] <Kamion> it's almost certainly not the processor
[01:49] <pitti> ah, it depends on the sound chip, not on the processor perculiarities?
[01:49] <Kamion> I believe so, yes
[01:49] <pitti> ah
[01:49] <Kamion> unfortunately (last time I investigated this) they didn't seem to be all that well-distinguished in /proc/devices
[01:49] <Kamion> er, /proc/device-tree
[01:50] <Kamion> BenC: are you aware of a snd-powermac crash on some G5 systems?
[01:50] <BenC> Kamion: no, is it snd-powermac, or snd-aoa?
[01:50] <Kamion> snd-powermac - see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=380082
[01:50] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 380082 in hw-detect "shouldn't always use snd-powermac" [Unknown,Closed]  
[01:51] <Riddell> Kamion: I'm afraid it looks like kubuntu needs another ubiquity fix
[01:51] <Kamion> I think further details are on debian-boot
[01:51] <Kamion> Riddell: urgh. details?
[01:51] <Riddell> Kamion: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kde-ui.py enables Install button on automatic partitioning
[01:51] <Riddell> Kamion: the previous fix only enabled them on manual partitioning
[01:52] <BenC> Kamion: Well, for edgy, we don't have snd-powermac anymore, it's snd-aoa, so edgy is ok
[01:52] <Kamion> +       print "MMMMMMMMMMM disabling"
[01:52] <Kamion> quality ;)
[01:52] <BenC> Kamion: I've not heard of G5 crashing with snd-powermac
[01:53] <Riddell> Kamion: doh, you can remove those lines
[01:53] <Kamion> BenC: oh, really?
[01:53] <Kamion> I didn't realise we'd backported that
[01:53] <Kamion> pitti: are you sure sound doesn't work anyway, then? :)
[01:53] <Kamion> I thought snd-aoa was supposed to be properly modaliased
[01:53] <Riddell> Kamion: also it looks like the 20060914.1 daily-live kubuntu cd images don't have the Recommends packages on them
[01:53] <BenC> yeah, I specifically wanted to get snd-aoa in there because of the hotplug capability of it
[01:53] <Kamion> I have all of snd-powermac, snd_aoa_i2sbus, and snd_aoa_soundbus loaded here
[01:54] <Kamion> Riddell: see the extensive discussion between me and Mithrandir above about that problem
[01:54] <pitti> Kamion, BenC: no idea, I just know that the live CD loads snd-powermac (which *does* exist) and the alternate doesn't, thus I have no sound there
[01:54] <Kamion> we've been working on fixing it for the last couple of hours
[01:54] <Riddell> Kamion: ok
[01:54] <pitti> Kamion: yeah, I specifically tested sound in alternate install, I need a modprobe snd-powermac to get it working
[01:55] <pitti> I didn't try snd-aoa, though, I'll do that in my next test install
[02:12] <z\> hello
[02:14] <mvo> Kamion: I looked at the popcon stuff and the HOSTID is indeed crucial. what do you think about me upload a new popularity-contest package that just reconfigure itself wen upgraded from a earlier version (what mdz suggested in the meeting)?
[02:15] <mvo> we would love some of the current data though for a short period of time
[02:15] <Kamion> we'd still have to know how to throw away the older data
[02:15] <Kamion> is it possible to find out which hostids are most commonly submitted, and just reconfigure if the hostid is one of those?
[02:15] <Kamion> maybe check whether it matches e.g. the dapper desktop CDs
[02:16] <mvo> its seems to be not easy to figure that out, it looks like it just overwrites a file (file==HOSTID) on each submit 
[02:16] <mvo> and no history is kept
[02:16] <Kamion> apache logs?
[02:17] <mvo> thworing a away the old data would be a delete on the hashes dir on the server
[02:17] <mvo> good point!
[02:33] <Kamion> Keybuk: usplash is trying to open /dev/console just before quitting and failing because its filesystem namespace is that of the initramfs, which went away
[02:33] <Kamion> Keybuk: what's the right way to deal with that?
[02:33] <Kamion> Keybuk: hold an fd to /dev/console open while usplash is running? copy /dev/console to /dev/.initramfs/console? something else?
[02:36] <Kamion> I'll try the former and see what happens
[02:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: both publisher runs done now?
[02:42] <Kamion> Mithrandir: nearly, but need one more for ubiquity binaries for Riddell
[02:42] <Mithrandir> Kamion: 'k, but I won't hold {ed,}ubuntu for that. :-)
[02:43] <Kamion> nod - I'll let you know
[02:43] <Kamion> Keybuk: oh, and same for /dev/tty* - no wonder it needs help from the init script to switch back to tty1
[03:01] <Keybuk> Kamion: ah, that makes sense
[03:01] <Keybuk> yes, hold it open
[03:02] <Keybuk> heh, this explains various bugs ;)
[03:02] <simira> mvo: u-m seems good to me now
[03:09] <jdong|laptop> whoa, look at all those new kernel commits in the git tree :)
[03:46] <Nafallo> Morning! ARE WE THERE YET? :-)
[03:51] <mvo> thanks simira :)
[04:02] <pitti> Kamion: yay for the expert installer asking me for an AltGr replacement key!
[04:02] <Mithrandir> pitti: "you asked for it".
[04:02] <pitti> Mithrandir: that was meant as a praise, not as a complaint
[04:03] <Mithrandir> pitti: yeah, I understood that.
[04:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: new alternates, too?
[04:04] <Mithrandir> pitti: do you get example-content installed correctly from alternate?
[04:04] <pitti> Mithrandir: I couldn't check in my latest install (oem) due to bug 60409
[04:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60409 in oem-config "eternal hang after selecting keyboard" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60409
[04:05] <Kamion> pitti: some bits of console-setup certainly qualify as expert. :)
[04:05] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'll look for that in the next install (this expert one)
[04:05] <pitti> Kamion: heh, I just noticed it asking me about fonts, font sizes, encodings, etc. :)
[04:06] <mvo> Mithrandir: whats in the test-matrix that needs more testing? I can surely help
[04:06] <mvo> my head hurts anyway and my nose is runing like crazy. prefect testing conditions
[04:07] <pitti> BenC: btw, snd-aoa is not automatically loaded on my iBook G4, and manually loading it doesn't make my card work; I really need to modprobe snd-powermac
[04:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks.
[04:07] <Mithrandir> mvo: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
[04:07] <BenC> pitti: modprobe i2c-powermac
[04:08] <pitti> BenC: btw, I *did* get some aoa-related modules autoloaded (_busconfig or so?), but not snd-aoa itself; probably because it doesn't drive my audio chipset
[04:08] <pitti> BenC: I'll try the modprobe after this currently progressing installer run
[04:08] <BenC> pitti: no, it does, but it needs the i2c controller to detect everything and load the rest of the modules
[04:08] <pitti> ah, maybe
[04:09] <Kamion> BenC: can that be automatically loaded or do I have to hardcode it?
[04:09] <Mithrandir> BenC: do you have any idea about the cause of bug #60071?
[04:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60071 in launchpad-integration "Gets confused when using --translate --pid $pid on the live cd" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60071
[04:10] <BenC> Kamion: for edgy hardcode, but edgy+1 and beyond will have all the neat ppc/sparc openprom autoloading magic
[04:10] <mvo> Mithrandir: thanks, I do edgy/atlernate/i386 now
[04:10] <Mithrandir> mvo: thanks.
[04:11] <Kamion> BenC: so just look for any device-tree node with name=="i2c", or something more specific?
[04:11] <maswan> Mithrandir: are we going to need an extra mirror run soon? :)
[04:11] <BenC> Mithrandir: not sure about that one, sounds like a limitation of squashfs or something
[04:11] <Mithrandir> BenC: note that / is an unionfs mount of everything in /casper/*
[04:11] <Mithrandir> maswan: we'll see.. things didn't go according to plans this morning so it might be tomorrow
[04:12] <maswan> Mithrandir: 'k
[04:12] <BenC> Kamion: device-tree device modules will get automatically loaded
[04:12] <BenC> Mithrandir: ah, there's the reason then
[04:12] <BenC> hmm, well, unionfs or bind?
[04:12] <Kamion> pitti: find /proc/device-tree -name i2c\*
[04:13] <Mithrandir> BenC: / is an unionfs mount, /casper/* is really bind-mounted from /casper/* in the initramfs.
[04:13] <BenC> Kamion: you mean for edgy? I think the find and/or "grep -qi mac /proc/device-tree/compatible" would make it specific enough
[04:15] <Kamion> BenC: pitti has /proc/device-tree/pci@f2000000/mac-io@17/i2c@18000 with name=="i2c" - is that meant to be autoloaded as i2c-powermac now, or do you mean that'll happen for edgy+1?
[04:18] <Mithrandir> BenC: so, is there any way to tell the kernel that it shouldn't look in /casper for stuff?
[04:20] <Mithrandir> Kamion: the fix doesn't seem to have made any difference.
[04:20] <Mithrandir> Kamion: recommends still aren't installed
[04:21] <Kamion> Mithrandir: haven't changed the livefs build script yet
[04:21] <Kamion> I'm sorry, I got horribly distracted by an arsey letting agent
[04:21] <BenC> Kamion: edgy+1 i will be autoloaded
[04:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, could you do that now, then?
[04:22] <Kamion> yeah, just trying to test it
[04:22] <BenC> Mithrandir: I don't think so
[04:23] <Mithrandir> BenC: so the fix is just to not bind-mount the separate squashfs-es, then.
[04:23] <BenC> Mithrandir: very likely, yes
[04:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: isn't the easiest way to test it to just change it and do a livefs build? :-)
[04:36] <mvo_> hmm, after doing a server install (in german) I end up with a english keylayout
[04:36] <Kagou> i'v installed daily desktop twice. found 3/4 problems
[04:36] <tepsipakki> backspace doesn't work here on console
[04:37] <Kagou> 1/ iso burn failed at the end twice (cdr and cdrw) but cd seems ok and installation have not failed
[04:38] <Kagou> 2/ ubiquity have problem displaying partition from gparted. (have to click on a partition to make it appeared)
[04:39] <Kagou> 3/ i'v selectioned french at the boot, but when ubiquity ask for keyboard and time, before, french and Paris was already selectioned. Just have to click next
[04:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I guess ...
[04:40] <Kagou> 4/ bug displaying fonts in firefox/yelp.. but iwj already have the patch for fontconfig in is hands
[04:41] <Mithrandir> Kagou: it's not helpful to tell us about your bugs here.  Make sure they're filed in malone and if you think they're knot blockers, tell me.
[04:41] <Kagou> 5/ usplash are not efficient but for this i need to talk to the mainteneur
[04:41] <Kagou> ok Mithrandir 
[04:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: could you review chinstrap:~cjwatson/livecd.sh.diff please?
[04:41] <Kamion> 3 is not a bug
[04:41] <Kagou> Kamion: 3 is a regression ?!
[04:42] <Kamion> no it's not
[04:42] <Keybuk> Kamion: bug #48038 ?
[04:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48038 in shadow "Always asks for root password" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48038
[04:42] <Kamion> ubiquity has never automatically advanced over questions (except due to bugs)
[04:42] <Keybuk> is marked fix committed in your branch ... some months ago
[04:42] <Kamion> Kagou: your 3 above has nothing to do with that bug
[04:43] <Kamion> oh, sorry, Kagou != Keybuk
[04:44] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it looks good to me.
[04:44] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'm just trying to at least do a debootstrap + simulate-install here
[04:44] <Keybuk> Kamion: heh, I'm having a little bug day of my own ... doing my usual trawl through any package I've ever uploaded
[04:47] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok.  Tell me when you have it ready?
[05:03] <bddebian> Heya folks
[05:03] <Kaleo> Hi
[05:04] <seb128> Mithrandir, Kamion: is the desktop having no timezone configured a bug?
[05:04] <bddebian> Hello Kal
[05:04] <bddebian> Err Kaleo
[05:04] <seb128> Mithrandir, Kamion: time-admin doesn't like it, which is a g-s-t issue but I'm wondering if that's a desktopCD bug too
[05:05] <Kamion> seb128: I'm going to have to get back to you later; can you file a ubiquity bug and I'll look at it later?
[05:05] <seb128> Kamion: sure, no problem, doing that
[05:06] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I've sent RT about livecd.sh; can you chase it up with sysadmin if required? I have to run out to the bank about urgent house-buying stuff
[05:08] <zul> Kamion: good luck
[05:17] <pitti> hi jvw 
[05:19] <jvw> pitti: good evening!
[05:20] <pitti> Mithrandir: example-content works fine here
[05:22] <pitti> BenC: I have an installed system ATM; 'FATAL: Module i2c_powermac not found.'
[05:24] <BenC> pitti: AH!...I forgot, I built it in since it's almost 100% going to be loaded anyway
[05:24] <pitti> BenC: :)
[05:24] <BenC> pitti: is there any output from snd-aoa in dmesg?
[05:24] <pitti> BenC: however, that means it's something else...
[05:24] <BenC> yeah, I may need to sync snd-aoa with upstream again
[05:25] <pitti> BenC: nothing that matches 'snd' or 'aoa' in dmsg
[05:25] <pitti> BenC: maybe this is interesting: 'PowerMac i2c bus pmu {1,2} registered'
[05:25] <BenC> pitti: find /proc/device-tree | grep layout-id
[05:25] <BenC> cat the file you find
[05:25] <pitti> BenC: and similar for mac-io and uni-n
[05:25] <BenC> well, it's definitely seeing the i2c then
[05:26] <pitti> BenC: find -> no hit
[05:26] <pitti> find | grep layout -> ram-layout-architecture
[05:26] <BenC> hmm, ok
[05:26] <pitti> which is certainly unrelated
[05:26] <pitti> BenC: shall I modprobe snd-i2c?
[05:26] <BenC> yeah, I think you need the latest snd-aoa stuff that doesn't use the layout-id
[05:27] <BenC> nah, it's probably just an issue of not supporting your setup
[05:27] <pitti> ok
[05:27] <pitti> BenC: well, I wouldn't worry about it too much for knot-3, few people have ppc
[05:27] <pitti> and with the desktop CD -powermac is loaded automatically still
[05:28] <pitti> BenC: thanks
[05:28] <BenC> np
[05:30] <Riddell> Kamion: looks like new ubiquity is in, could you spin new kubuntu livefs
[05:30] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes, I'll do that.
[05:31] <pitti> argh@wiki internal server error
[05:32] <Mithrandir> seb128: I suspect it might be desktop-cd-no-recommend related.  Or, what do you mean by "no timezone"?  /etc/localtime not being there?
[05:32] <Mithrandir> pitti: ok, cool, that means we don't have to rebuild alternate.
[05:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'm glad about that, testing all possiblities takes half of the day
[05:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'm currently testing ppc/rescue, then I'm through
[05:32] <Mithrandir> pitti: I know. :-/  We need a proper test rig.
[05:33] <pitti> Mithrandir: IMHO we can ignore the broken OEM mode for knot-3, vendors won't install an alpha release anyway
[05:33] <pitti> Mithrandir: so it won't make sense to test desktop 14.1, if a new image is in preparation?
[05:34] <Mithrandir> pitti: correct.
[05:34] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'll note the broken oem thing in the release notes.
[05:34] <pitti> whoops
[05:35] <mvo_> I got no usplash when installing on xfs (and so got lilo instead of grub). is that known?
[05:35] <pitti> mvo_: I don't get usplash with alternate installs either
[05:35] <pitti> mvo_: with the desktop CD it works (all on ppc)
[05:35] <mvo_> I got it on the normal alternate install here
[05:38] <roico> is there any chance to see the common customizations spec when edgy final comes out?... is there any progress with it?
[05:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I suspect this will blow up: Need to get 1083MB of archives. After unpacking 3459MB will be used.
[05:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion: something pulls in xubuntu-desktop, for instance.  Gnr.
[05:41] <mvo_> Mithrandir: is this normal apt? do you know about -o Debug::pkgDepCache::AutoInstall=true ? 
[05:41] <mvo_> Mithrandir: I found it very useful to find problem about what brings in what
[05:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: no /etc/timezone and tzselect saying that the timezone is "Unknown"
[05:42] <Mithrandir> mvo_: it's aptitude.
[05:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: tzconfig rather
[05:42] <mvo_> Mithrandir: it should support this as well 
[05:43] <Mithrandir> mvo_: problem seems to be that we're not running with -R
[05:43] <mvo_> aha, 'k
[05:44] <mvo_> that certainly explains it :)
[05:44] <Mithrandir> mvo_: so we're getting insane amounts of stuff installed.  Like xubuntu-desktop when bootstrapping ubuntu.
[05:44] <pitti> mvo: do you have a bug for 'no usplash with alternate'? I'd like to say 'me too' for ppc and link it to T/Current
[05:45] <mvo> pitti: not yet, but I can add one
[05:45] <pitti> ok, ppc/altearnate tested through; really not in the best condition, but workable at least
[05:46] <mvo> pitti: bug 60425
[05:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60425 in debian-installer "no usplash with i386-alternate CD and XFS" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60425
[05:48] <pitti> mvo: thanks, I added a comment
[05:48] <mvo> pitti: thanks!
[05:48] <pitti> mvo: usplash on live works for you as well?
[05:49] <mvo> pitti: I haven't tested live yet, but a different alternate install gave me usplash
[05:49] <pitti> oh?
[05:50] <pitti> mvo: strange that it depends on the file system type
[05:50] <mvo> pitti: XFS uses lilo, I suspect that something with the boot options is the reason
[05:50] <pitti> ah
[05:50] <pitti> mvo: well, I just get a black screen
[05:50] <mvo> oh
[05:50] <mvo> heh :)
[05:51] <mvo> I just get the normal boot messages
[05:51] <Riddell> Mithrandir: can you make me a new kubuntu live fs?
[05:52] <Mithrandir> Riddell: yes, once I have live-fses which won't be DVD-sized.  We're monkeying around with the livefs build script now.
[05:52] <roico> is there any chance to see the common customizations spec when edgy final comes out?... is there any progress with it?
[05:52] <Riddell> Mithrandir: ah, didn't relise that
[05:53] <Mithrandir> Riddell: (see above for "building ubuntu livefs includes xubuntu-desktop" hilarity.)
[05:59] <bddebian> doko: You about by any chance?
[06:00] <fabbione> Mithrandir: are we still deeply frozen?
[06:00] <bddebian> Or anyone that deals with glibc?
[06:00] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yes.
[06:01] <fabbione> Mithrandir: any objections if i upload glibc to fix build on sparc? the change is sparc specific and it can be approved after knot-3
[06:01] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it's not a blocker of anykind
[06:01] <Mithrandir> fabbione: as long as nobody approves it, feel free.
[06:02] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i won't ask for approval before knot-3. so i am doing it :)
[06:05] <khermans> shouldn't the gdm package depend on xserver-xorg ?
[06:05] <khermans> i will file a bug if you guys think so
[06:05] <Mithrandir> no, you can run gdm without a local server.
[06:05] <Mithrandir> think terminal server, for instance.
[06:05] <khermans> oh ok
[06:06] <khermans> by default, it tried to run X
[06:06] <khermans> ok, thx for the info
[06:12] <Tonio_> mvo: ping ?
[06:13] <mvo> Tonio_: weak pong
[06:14] <Nafallo> hehe
[06:14] <Nafallo> mvo: 1000ms+ ? :-)
[06:15] <Tonio_> mvo: I just noticed a little issue with launchpad-integration, see bug 60426
[06:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60426 in launchpad-integration "uses gnome prefs if kde and gnome are installed." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60426
[06:15] <Tonio_> mvo: here is a debdiff that patches urls.py and closes the issue : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23444
[06:15] <Tonio_> mvo: any problem if I upload this ?
[06:16] <Tonio_> mvo: changes should be commited to bzr I assume...
[06:16] <seb128> Tonio_: main is frozen for knot-3, don't upload
[06:16] <Tonio_> seb128: I know :) that was for "after the freeze" :)
[06:16] <Tonio_> seb128: although that's minor issue, so there is no emergency
[06:16] <seb128> Tonio_: I'm not sure the patch is correct, don't we have a better way to detect the desktop used that looking for gnome-session running?
[06:17] <mvo> Tonio_: if you attach the patch to the bugreport I can merge it into bzr then. and then what seb128 said, it feels wrong to grep ps -A :)
[06:17] <seb128> Tonio_: what about xfce?
[06:17] <Tonio_> seb128: does it use gnome-open too ?
[06:18] <seb128> Tonio_: I'm not sure, but I would like you to make sure before making a change ... and I fin the ps way hackish :)
[06:18] <Tonio_> seb128: well concerning kde I can use KDE_FULL_VERSION env variable, but I didn't found a gnome equivalent......
[06:18] <Tonio_> seb128: if you have a tip, would be nice :)
[06:18] <seb128> Tonio_: no, I don't
[06:18] <seb128> will think about it
[06:19] <Tonio_> seb128: that the problem...... I kno ps stuff is not very clean, but it works....
[06:19] <Tonio_> seb128: it would nice if both kde and gnome would set the same variable so that we could look at the one in use...
[06:19] <seb128> Tonio_: we try to not hurry ugly code just because it works usually :p
[06:20] <Tonio_> seb128: hehe, I agree :)
[06:20] <seb128> when we have time to think about a better solution
[06:20] <Riddell> Portland is the longer-term answer to this
[06:20] <seb128> I've a "DESKTOP_SESSION="gnome"" on my edgy desktop
[06:20] <mvo> xdg-utils, yeah
[06:20] <Tonio_> seb128: "default" here......
[06:21] <seb128> Tonio_: what desktop are you running?
[06:21] <Nafallo> default here aswell, using gnome
[06:21] <Tonio_> seb128: kde
[06:21] <seb128> ok, so that one is not good enough
[06:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: shouldn't we patch to get "kde" instead of "default" ?
[06:21] <seb128> maybe raise the issue on the desktop or devel list?
[06:21] <Nafallo> GDMSESSION="default" :-)
[06:22] <seb128> Nafallo: not everybody is using gdm anyway
[06:22] <seb128> Nafallo: relying on GDM variable is not perfect
[06:22] <Nafallo> that's a point...
[06:22] <Nafallo> GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID="Default"
[06:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: can't we patch kdm to get DESKTOP_SESSION set to "kde" instead of "default" when kde is running ?
[06:23] <Riddell> I suspect KDM will have a good reason to set it to that
[06:23] <Riddell> I'd rather just investiagte Portland
[06:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure
[06:24] <Nafallo> and DESKTOP_SESSION is default for gnome as well, so probably a reason somewhere :-)
[06:24] <seb128> Tonio_: from a mail on the gnome desktop list:
[06:24] <seb128> "On Novell Linux Desktop, we have a number of applications which try to
[06:24] <seb128> detect which desktop environment is running and perform the correct
[06:24] <seb128> action.  I have no idea how much customization went into the detection
[06:24] <seb128> scripts, but I know at least some did.  Here's what we look for:
[06:24] <seb128>         $DESKTOP_SESSION == gnome
[06:24] <seb128>         ${WINDOWMANAGER##*/} == *gnome*
[06:24] <seb128>         $GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID == gnome"
[06:25] <Nafallo> seb128: I have default on all of those ;-)
[06:25] <giftnudel> maybe some variable should be set, this should not be too difficult to implement?
[06:25] <Nafallo> !WINDOWMANAGER
[06:25] <seb128> Nafallo: if GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID is set that's likely by GNOME though :p
[06:26] <Tonio_> seb128: yes, DESKTOP_SESSION looks ideal for this... just that kdm doesn't set it as we need :)
[06:26] <seb128> Tonio_: fix kdm then ;)
[06:26] <giftnudel> Tonio_: file a bug
[06:26] <seb128> Tonio_: for now look if GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID is set
[06:26] <Nafallo> seb128: but the above code checked if it was set to "gnome" :-)
[06:27] <Tonio_> giftnudel: well I'll had the information on bug 60426 since they are linked
[06:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60426 in launchpad-integration "uses gnome prefs if kde and gnome are installed." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60426
[06:27] <seb128> Nafallo: that's a mail giving the idea, not a code
[06:27] <Nafallo> ehm, right.
[06:27] <seb128> Nafallo: you should be able to adapt on top of it instead of discussing details like that ...
[06:27] <seb128> anyway, let's say if GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID is set we use GNOME
[06:27] <seb128> KDE people know what they want to look for
[06:28] <Nafallo> should be. I don't run XFCE ;-)
[06:28] <seb128> Tonio_: can you update the patch according to that?
[06:28] <Nafallo> but maybe it doesn't use gnome-session.
[06:28] <Tonio_> seb128: sure
[06:28] <seb128> thank you
[06:28] <Tonio_> seb128: the point is isn't that better trying to fix kdm first to check for the same variable ?
[06:29] <Tonio_> seb128: probably better than checking 2 different ones no ?
[06:29] <seb128> DESKTOP_SESSION seems to be set to "default" if you use the default session with gdm too
[06:29] <seb128> easier for now to do the lpi change
[06:29] <seb128> and doesn't prevent to work on a cleaner xdg solution to detect the desktop
[06:29] <Tonio_> seb128: ah okay
[06:30] <trappist> is mailto:ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com what we really want apt-cache to show for where to send bug reports?
[06:30] <giftnudel> should probably be a spec for edgy+1
[06:30] <trappist> (it's the Bugs line of every package I've tried it on)
[06:31] <trappist> giftnudel: if that was for me, it sounds like a good idea
[06:33] <giftnudel> trappist: sorry, it wasn't but there should be put some effort in that too
[06:33] <dsas> trappist: I think someone else has raised that issue before (possibly Burgwork), not sure what progress was made.
[06:34] <Kamion> BenC: DOH I'd better reject that hw-detect upload then
[06:34] <BenC> Kamion: yeah, sorry about that
[06:36] <Keybuk> bug #44314
[06:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44314 in base-files ""telinit 2" doesn't stop X" [Wishlist,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44314
[06:36] <Keybuk> dilema ... do I flame the guy mercilessly for bullshit in his last post
[06:36] <Keybuk> or do I politely correct him
[06:36] <mvo> CoC!
[06:36] <mvo> :p
[06:37] <Kamion> pitti: usplash defaults to 640x480 at present and there's no theme that fits that
[06:37] <Kamion> (apart from the testcard)
[06:37] <Kamion> so TBH it doesn't matter lots if usplash isn't installed properly :-)
[06:37] <Keybuk> mvo: I'm somewhat tempted to suggest that he forfeited the right to protection under that when he started talking out of his arse
[06:37] <bddebian> heh
[06:37] <mvo> haha
[06:37] <pitti> Kamion: ah, curious why it works when booting the live system then
[06:38] <Nafallo> lol
[06:38] <dholbach> hahahaha, who wrote those silly things about me on the fridge?
[06:38] <thom> Keybuk: it's not _really_ his fault that debian and ubuntu have historically chosen to ignore run levels, but his response is a bit... daft
[06:39] <Keybuk> thom: "runlevels exist in System III"!!!")"$()"$" :p
[06:39] <Kamion> pitti: usplash might be configured differently there, not sure
[06:39] <thom> Keybuk: *g* indeed
[06:39] <Kamion> pitti: the problem on the alternate install CD is very d-i-specific
[06:48] <madduck> mdz: i'll try to get to your document today or tomorrow. sorry for the delay.
[06:49] <jdong> pitti: do you think it's possible that we do security updates for flashplayer?
[06:49] <jdong> pitti: http://www.adobe.com/support/security/bulletins/apsb06-11.html
[06:49] <Tonio_> mvo, seb128: just attach fixed diff to bug 60426
[06:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60426 in launchpad-integration "uses gnome prefs if kde and gnome are installed." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60426
[06:49] <pitti> jdong: didn't crimsun alrady prepare them?
[06:49] <jdong> (I know it's multiverse and all :-/)
[06:49] <jdong> pitti: I'm not sure
[06:50] <pitti> jdong: as long as someone provides updated tested packages, uploading them is not a problem
[06:51] <jdong> pitti: ah, it's been uploaded into edgy, apparently
[06:52] <jdong> pitti: after it gets uploaded into edgy, what's the process for getting them into dapper?
[07:04] <mdz> madduck: thanks
[07:10] <pitti> jdong: mainly, building the package on dapper, testing it properly, and checking for regressions
[07:10] <pitti> jdong: if that's fine, someone needs to prepare a new source package according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
[07:11] <pitti> jdong: (appropriate version and changelog entry)
[07:11] <pitti> hi mdz
[07:11] <mdz> pitti: hi
[07:13] <Mithrandir> hiya Matt
[07:13] <seb128> hey mdz
[07:13] <mvo> hey matt
[07:22] <Zdra_> seb128 (or another GNOME ubuntu packager): can you take a look at this bug, please: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=355117
[07:22] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 355117 in General "Use  instead of * for masking passwords" [Minor,Reopened]  
[07:22] <mdz> good morning everyone
[07:22] <Zdra_> in short: is the "" ubuntu specific ?
[07:22] <Zdra_> for masking passwords
[07:23] <seb128> Zdra_: it is
[07:23] <bddebian> Hello mdz
[07:23] <zul> afternoon mdz
[07:23] <Zdra_> seb128: ok so it should be reverted in upstream and maybe applied in ubuntu package ?
[07:24] <seb128> Zdra_: we are not going to patch every .glade for that, no
[07:24] <seb128> Zdra_: feel free to make it reverted upstream though
[07:24] <Zdra_> ok, thanks :)
[07:24] <seb128> np
[07:38] <BenC> anyone using dapper+nvidia?
[07:39] <mdz> BenC: I'm using dapper+nvidia-the-chipset, but nv-the-driver
[07:40] <BenC> mdz: Ok, I have a bug with dapper security, I think lrm needs recompiling...it's using the single symbol that changed because of the last upload
[07:40] <mdz> BenC: why didn't the ABI checker detect that?
[07:41] <BenC> it did, but I checked all (except lrm) modules to see if anything was using it...it's boot_cpu_data, which from what I found was only use by internal kernel stuff
[07:41] <BenC> so I force ignored it to avoid a big ABI bump for just i386+1-symbol
[07:42] <BenC> I'm not sure if I should reupload dapper kernel with ABI bump + l-m + lrm, or just rebuild lrm and do an ABI bump for next security update
[07:43] <pitti> BenC: ugh
[07:43] <BenC> fglrx, and other lrm modules aren't affected, neither is vmware-player-modules it seems
[07:44] <BenC> mdz: which way do you think is best, full ABI bump, or just rebuild lrm?
[07:45] <pitti> BenC: if we skipped the ABI bump for the kernel, why not just rebuild l-r-m without an ABI bump as well? doesn't that work?
[07:45] <mdz> BenC: please do the abi bump
[07:45] <BenC> pitti: yeah, that's the easiest plan
[07:46] <BenC> that's what I want to do, but I want to make sure that's ok with everyone else too
[07:46] <mdz> actually best would probably be to do both
[07:47] <mdz> I guess rebuild now and bump later
[07:47] <BenC> pitti: do we have any security updates for dapper?
[07:47] <mdz> and please don't ever disable that check again
[07:47] <BenC> I can do the lrm upload now
[07:47] <mdz> in stable
[07:48] <jdong|laptop> BenC: does that account for the complaints about system being broken by the kernel update?
[07:48] <BenC> and we can do a security update within the next week or two
[07:48] <BenC> mdz: ok
[07:48] <BenC> jdong: for people using nvidia and not getting X, yes
[07:48] <BenC> any others I'm not aware of
[07:49] <jdong|laptop> BenC: alright, there's some vague complaints of breakage over at system76, I'll try to look into it
[07:50] <BenC> jdong: There's also a VIA quirk patch reversal
[07:51] <pitti> BenC: alright, I'll monitor the builds and push out lrm ASAP
[07:51] <jdong|laptop> urgh
[07:51] <pitti> BenC: yes, today I did a security review and committed new stuff into the svn
[07:52] <jdong|laptop> BenC: you're killing me here :P
[07:53] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: can you please accept bluez-utils_3.1-1ubuntu9 ?
[07:53] <Mithrandir> Kamion: or you ^^
[07:53] <BenC> jdong: next kernel will have the VIA patch taken out, and an ABI bump
[07:53] <jdong|laptop> BenC: 0000:05:00.0 Ethernet controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88E8055 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 11)
[07:53] <Mithrandir> preferably so it's part of this publisher run.
[07:53] <jdong|laptop> BenC: was anything done with regards to that chipset of NICs?
[07:53] <pitti> BenC: current lp_archive for security is just running; do you think you can upload lrm within the next 55 minutes?
[07:54] <jdong|laptop> BenC: system76 reporting that it no longer works or shows up in hal after the updates
[07:54] <BenC> pitti: yep
[07:54] <pitti> BenC: ok, then we can have it on the mirrors in 2 hours
[07:54] <mdz> BenC: which version introduced this regression?
[07:55] <BenC> mdz: last one
[07:55] <jdong|laptop> mdz: 2.6.15-26.47
[07:55] <BenC> 26.47
[07:56] <Kamion> Mithrandir: doing
[07:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks
[07:57] <Kamion> Mithrandir: done
[07:57] <BenC> lrm is on it's way up
[07:57] <BenC> I'm going to do a dapper+security+abi bump upload by this evening
[07:57] <BenC> that VIA quirk thing needs to be fixed as well
[07:58] <pitti> BenC: do you just want to revert that, or apply today's security fixes as well?
[07:59] <pitti> BenC: if the latter, we should coordinate with hoary/breezy as well
[07:59] <BenC> pitti: it's up to you
[07:59] <BenC> I can do either
[07:59] <zul> hi..
[07:59] <jdong|laptop> BenC: the sky2/sk98lin changes apparently breaks system76 ubuntu boxes, too
[07:59] <pitti> zul: would you have time today for preparing another update?
[07:59] <zul> i can do an upload tonight when i get home from work
[08:00] <pitti> zul: if we can defer the abi update until tomorrow to give zul some breathing room, I'd prefer the latter
[08:00] <pitti> BenC: ^
[08:00] <pitti> BenC: since we'll have the lrm update soon, it doesn't seem that urgent any more?
[08:00] <BenC> jdong: I'm surprised sky2 was working for anyone at all :/
[08:01] <BenC> pitti: Ok, I'll get the security updates in, and we can upload tomorrow
[08:01] <BenC> pitti: correct
[08:01] <BenC> jdong: Do you have access to these systems?
[08:02] <BenC> jdong: can you find out if they have sk98lin loaded, and if not do "modprobe sk98lin"?
[08:02] <jdong|laptop> BenC: no, I don't have access to the systems; It's just that the guy in charge of system76 is telling me that the update broke networking
[08:02] <jdong|laptop> which leads me to believe it worked before the update (i.e. a regression)
[08:03] <BenC> jdong: can you get me in touch with him?
[08:03] <jdong|laptop> BenC: he's on the forums in this thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1498684
[08:03] <BenC> that sky2 problem has been around since before dapper released, and I've never heard of sky2 actually working for someone
[08:03] <jdong|laptop> he's been actively posting within the past few minutes :-/
[08:04] <BenC> the sk98lin change was a direct forward port from breezy, and so far, no one with a sky2 has a) Bothered to test the sk98lin change, or b) bothered to report back abou tit
[08:04] <BenC> I had test packages with it, and posted it to the largest bug report I have against the kernel (dozens of subscribers I bet), and after all the complaining NO ONE TESTED IT
[08:05] <jdong|laptop> calm down... it's ok.... we still love you :)
[08:05] <BenC> jdong: that post is about nvidia, and says "sound and networking are ok" :)
[08:05] <jdong|laptop> BenC: look at post number 3
[08:05] <BenC> nm, I see at the top
[08:08] <bddebian> heh
[08:08] <jdong|laptop> fortunately this one hasn't turned into a major uproar {yet}
[08:09] <BenC> you had to say it didn't you :P
[08:09] <jdong|laptop> BenC: apparently it breaks fglrx, too. yay!
[08:09] <jdong|laptop> :)
[08:10] <BenC> that's odd, because I have a dapper + fglrx system
[08:11] <jdong|laptop> weird... I'm just reporting what people are saying :)
[08:11] <jdong|laptop> BenC: did you catch the latest reply in that thread, regarding the sound issue?
[08:19] <BenC> jdong: That may be the VIA issue I talked about
[08:19] <BenC> for most people it caused a lock up when gnome started (presumably playing the login sound)
[08:20] <jdong|laptop> hmm
[08:22] <sladen> what do people normally get?  A "grain of salt" tag :)
[08:24] <jdong|laptop> sladen: naw, we go by coffee beans
[08:24] <jdong|laptop> after the CoC demons started rioting about the classic star-level thing :)
[08:24] <jdong|laptop> we got tired of the whining, so I proposed coffee beans as a joke, and it stuck :)
[08:26] <pitti> BenC: ok, so we don't need to to obey to fixed cron.dailies, as soon as the upload is ready, please fire away
[08:27] <mdz> BenC: you said the upload was done, pitti doesn't see it
[08:27] <pitti> BenC: nothing in REPORT for three hours
[08:28] <BenC> lftp was still open...it doesn't process till the connection is closed, if I recall correctly
[08:28] <BenC> was uploaded to dapper-security
[08:29] <elmo> BenC: yeah, it doesn't
[08:30] <pitti> BenC: there now
[08:30] <pitti> mdz: ^
[08:31] <BenC> ACCEPTED
[08:32] <pitti> BenC: yeah, in accepted/ for two minutes now
[08:32] <bddebian> Does that work? :_)
[08:33] <jdong|laptop> BenC: should breezy people be seeing disappearing eth0's?
[08:34] <Frederick> hi folks doesnt the image magick libs distributed in ubuntu have debug info?
[08:34] <pascal80> pitti: what do you think about dynamically generated PPDs for Edgy as suggested here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-August/020320.html
[08:36] <pitti> pascal80: later, please
[08:36] <pascal80> pitti: ok
[08:37] <zyga> re
[08:37] <bddebian> Frederick: Not likely unless there is a -dbg package
[08:37] <Frederick> bddebian, so basically I cant debug my appl =/
[08:38] <bddebian> Frederick: Sure you can, check out the DebuggingApps wiki page
[08:39] <Frederick> bddebian, kdevelop doesn't seems to be happy samething applies to ddd
[08:39] <bddebian> Frederick: Happy with what?
[08:41] <Frederick> bddebian, for example I cant set break points nor watch variables
[08:42] <bddebian> Frederick: All of Debian/Ubuntu packages have stripped binaries so all the symbol/debug information is "missing"
[08:43] <Frederick> bddebian, oki but there is a -dev package for it and I believe it should have a -dbg package don't it?
[08:45] <bddebian> Frederick: Not all packages have -dbg binaries no
[08:46] <bddebian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[08:48] <Frederick> bddebian, thanks a lot
[08:49] <bddebian> NP
[08:50] <Frederick> I got an error =/
[08:50] <Frederick> E: Could not open file /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_dapper_multiverse_source_Sources - open (2 No such file or directory)
[08:52] <bddebian> Frederick: Do you have an entry for deb-src for multiverse in your sources.list?
[08:52] <jdong|laptop> 403 forbidden on the 26.47 kernel updates
[08:53] <jdong|laptop> is that our way of blocking users from getting the borked updates?
[08:54] <Frederick> bddebian,  yep http://rafb.net/paste/results/I68SbL12.html
[08:54] <pitti> jdong, Frederick: will be fixed soon, yes, we want to block a faulty update
[08:55] <Frederick> pitti, ?
[08:55] <jdong|laptop> pitti: cool, glad to hear we're blocking it. Has packages.gz been updated to reflect that?
[08:55] <jdong|laptop> pitti: there's users at the forums getting 403's from trying to do an update, wondering if that's because their packages.gz is not up-to-date
[08:56] <Frederick> pitti, what do you mean?
[08:57] <pitti> Frederick: we currently building an updated linux-restricted-modules, since the previous kernel update broke nvidia driver
[08:57] <pitti> Frederick: and we don't want people to download the faulty version for the time being
[08:57] <pitti> Frederick: thus we blocked the package lists
[08:58] <pitti> Frederick: they will work again soon
[08:58] <Frederick> I have no problems with that :P my problem is with imagemagick =/
[08:58] <jdong|laptop> Frederick: I think pitti means they blocked the package lists....
[08:58] <jdong|laptop> Frederick: and that's causing your apt errors
[08:58] <Frederick> jdong, oh
[08:59] <Frederick> but I think the lib doesn't have dbg info avaliable for ubuntu =/
[08:59] <jdong|laptop> pitti: are rollback procedures to be posted on ubuntu.com like last time, for the users already bitten by this bug?
[08:59] <pitti> jdong|laptop: actually we didn't block the package lists
[08:59] <jdong|laptop> pitti: we're trying to figure out the best way to address this at the forums, since a number of users are already affected
[09:00] <pitti> jdong|laptop: some minutes, please, while we finish this at maximum speed
[09:00] <jdong|laptop> k, sure
[09:00] <Frederick> jdong|laptop, so I should also wait some minutes and try again later?
[09:00] <jdong|laptop> Frederick: try an apt-get update... it should resolve itself
[09:01] <pitti> jdong|laptop: we prefer apt-get failure over installing a broken kernel
[09:01] <pitti> since users can recover from the former, but it's tricky with broken X in the latter case
[09:01] <mdz> jdong|laptop: we're focused on getting a corrected package up right now
[09:01] <jdong|laptop> pitti: yeah, I totally agree with that
[09:01] <jdong|laptop> pitti: it's just that if you block linux-headers, it makes it hard for people to recompile a custom nvidia against the new kernel ;)
[09:02] <jdong|laptop> mdz: I understand that. just trying to keep forum users at bay for now :)
[09:03] <mdz> jdong|laptop: thanks
[09:05] <pascal80> pitti: can I ask now?
[09:06] <pascal80> pitti: what do you think about dynamically generated PPDs for Edgy as suggested here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-August/020320.html
[09:08] <Mithrandir> pascal80: we've already implemented it?
[09:08] <jdong|laptop> pascal80: dude you waited a total of like 10 minutes :D
[09:09] <Mithrandir> "are we there yet?"  "no, we were there two weeks ago"
[09:09] <pascal80> Mithrandir: I don't think, I just would like to hear pitti's opinion
[09:09] <jdong|laptop> Mithrandir: hey! this week I am resisting the urge to ask about knot3 :P
[09:10] <Mithrandir> jdong|laptop: I could give you a long story about everything conspiring against us, but you could piece most of it together by reading backlog here
[09:10] <jdong|laptop> Mithrandir: yes, I noticed. So are the Knot3 dual-layer DVD's ready yet? ;)
[09:11] <Mithrandir> we're not making DVDs for knots, just for beta and release.
[09:12] <Mithrandir> they're not intrinsically harder either ; it's just that it's more testing and therefore more work.
[09:12] <jdong|laptop> just teasing :)
[09:12] <jdong|laptop> Mithrandir: at least it'd accomodate that extra xubuntu-desktop or two :)
[09:12] <Mithrandir> jdong|laptop: true dat.  We'll stuff it full of langpacks instead, though
[09:14] <jdong|laptop> mdz: sorry to bug you on this one, but do you have a recommended solution for users affected by the nvidia breakage, other than sit around for a few hours and yell at the forum staff?
[09:15] <jdong|laptop> i.e. using apt-get to roll back to the previous kernel, switching back to nv, etc
[09:15] <pitti> jdong|laptop: it's a matter of minutes now
[09:15] <jdong|laptop> pitti: k, then we'll take the heat :)
[09:15] <pitti> jdong|laptop: the solution for people who already have a broken system is:
[09:16] <pitti> jdong|laptop: logging in to a text console, sudo apt-get update, sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[09:16] <pitti> and then sudo reboot
[09:17] <jdong|laptop> pitti: k, thanks
[09:17] <pitti> jdong|laptop: thanks a million for being the mediator to the forums
[09:17] <jdong|laptop> pitti: no problem
[09:26] <pounk> hello, when I try to install the linux-header, I have an error 403... the http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.15/linux-headers-2.6.15-26-386_2.6.15-26.47_i386.deb dont work
[09:27] <Frederick> are the packages still blocked?
[09:28] <pounk> try to go the the url.. is a 403 error
[09:28] <bddebian> pounk: Known problem that they are working diligently on
[09:28] <pitti> pounk: ^
[09:28] <pounk> ok, is because the package have a problem or is a permission error on the server?
[09:28] <Frederick> I think I wil lgo for MSVS =/
[09:29] <BenC> pounk: "blocked" would imply that it was in purpose :)
[09:29] <zul> pitti: might want to do that on #ubuntu as well
[09:29] <pitti> pounk: the former
[09:29] <pounk> ok
[09:30] <pitti> zul: I shouted there, but I can't change the subject in #ubuntu
[09:30] <zul> ok
[09:30] <pounk> also with the kernel, the vmware package don't work
[09:30] <pounk> this*
[09:31] <jdong|laptop> pounk: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=257459
[09:35] <cr3> there seems to be an update of linux-image-2.6.15-26-386, but the package name and version look exactly the same. why is that?
[09:35] <cr3> shouldn't the next update be linux-image-2.6.15-27-386?
[09:36] <Burgwork> pitti, you need the #ubuntu topic changed?
[09:36] <pitti> Burgwork: would be nice, same last component of this channel's
[09:36] <jdong|laptop> cr3: my understanding is that 27 is coming soon... right now it's just usn 346-2 to solve the restricted module problem
[09:36] <pitti> Burgwork: although it's now almost done
[09:36] <jdong|laptop> hopefully 27 will revert some of the other regressions introduced
[09:37] <cr3> jdong|laptop: "usn 346-2"?
[09:37] <jdong|laptop> http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-346-2
[09:37] <pitti> usn-346-2 will only fix the nvidia stuff
[09:37] <jdong|laptop> right
[09:37] <pitti> I didn't yet send out the email
[09:38] <cr3> jdong|laptop: interesting, I don't see what part of that security notice would make the Marvell ethernet controller stop working.
[09:38] <jdong|laptop> cr3: there were other bugfix updates in USN-346-1 that were not mentioned in the notification
[09:38] <Burgwork> pitti, done
[09:39] <pitti> thanks
[09:39] <jdong|laptop> cr3: namely, a sky2 driver forward-port from breezy
[09:39] <BenC> cr3: Please subscribe to https://launchpad.net/bugs/60271
[09:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60271 in linux-source-2.6.17 "wired network does not work since 2.6.17-7" [Untriaged,Needs info]  
[09:39] <BenC> same bug, applies to dapper too
[09:40] <Kamion> cr3: the "27" bit indicates module ABI - it's not the package version
[09:40] <cr3> BenC: hi! saw your posting on ubuntuforums
[09:40] <Kamion> cr3: each successive upload may but does not necessarily increment the module ABI
[09:40] <jdong|laptop> cr3: are you mr. system76?
[09:41] <cr3> jdong|laptop: nope, but I'm in contact with him :)
[09:41] <jdong|laptop> ah, ok
[09:41] <cr3> jdong|laptop: they are a very cool company selling laptops with Ubuntu preinstalled
[09:41] <BenC> cr3: just got the output, let me read through it real quick
[09:41] <jdong|laptop> cr3: absolutely, they're awesome :)
[09:42] <jdong|laptop> cr3: just hope they're not too swamped by what's been going on :)
[09:42] <sladen> mjg59: http://www.linuxfirmwarekit.org/
[09:42] <cr3> jdong|laptop: the problem has incured some support indeed, I sure wish I could tell him something to help
[09:43] <jdong|laptop> BenC: is there a launchpad bug for the possible sound/via issue?
[09:43] <AlinuxOS> cr3, in Italy there is Essedi Shop, that sells computers with Kubuntu preinstalled.
[09:43] <AlinuxOS> just a info :) essedi.it
[09:44] <cr3> AlinuxOS: we would love to have them listed in our Ubuntu Marketplace, are you sometimes in contact with Essedi?
[09:46] <AlinuxOS> cr3, no I'm not...some friends of mine bought Linux suitable hardware.(They have Linux Assemblator Software) and they install Kubuntu :)
[09:47] <BenC> cr3: replied to the output from system76
[09:47] <bluefoxicy> wow
[09:47] <AlinuxOS> cr3, I can contact them if you want.
[09:47] <bluefoxicy> Nitan is asking Ubuntu for money
[09:48] <AlinuxOS> It depends if you need this.
[09:48] <bluefoxicy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompressedMemory
[09:48] <crimsun> jdong|laptop: precise details being...?
[09:48] <jdong|laptop> crimsun: either hard lockup on gnome login sound, or soundcard disappearing after kernel update
[09:49] <jdong|laptop> system76 is experiencing the latter
[09:49] <bluefoxicy> hi pitti
[09:49] <pitti> Burgwork: can you please update #ubuntu, too? kernel can be downloaded again and new l-r-m is up
[09:49] <jdong|laptop> crimsun: maybe BenC can provide you with better info than me; I'm just going by what people at the forums have been reporting
[09:49] <AlinuxOS> cr3, you can notice SMART CONFIGURATOR: http://essedi.it/smartconfigurator.htm?SID=
[09:49] <AlinuxOS> pitti, hello ;)
[09:50] <pitti> hi bluefoxicy, hey AlinuxOS 
[09:50] <crimsun> jdong|laptop: I don't know who this 'system76' is.
[09:50] <jdong|laptop> crimsun: they're a hardware company selling only ubuntu systems
[09:50] <bluefoxicy> hm
[09:50] <AlinuxOS> pitti, Edgy will Rock I see :) there is Georgian listed in debian-installer menu :)
[09:50] <jdong|laptop> they were the first ones to report having problems with the kernel update
[09:50] <BenC> jdong: that's the VIA problem, fixed in git repo already
[09:50] <bluefoxicy> He should probably go through the bounty system, shouldn't he?
[09:50] <cr3> BenC: last reply I see from you on ubuntuforums is asking for lspci output
[09:50] <crimsun> right, the revert
[09:51] <jdong|laptop> BenC: k, regarding dapper though?
[09:51] <BenC> cr3: it's via email to the system76 guy
[09:51] <BenC> jdong: Yes
[09:51] <AlinuxOS> pitti, but there is horrible,ugly fonts(again and again) so I'm working to replace them. I'm talking about gnu unifont.
[09:51] <cr3> BenC: can you forward the email to me as well, he's expecting a call from me this afternoon
[09:51] <crimsun> jdong|laptop: http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-dapper.git;a=commitdiff;h=23a7178767252cc5b6337b74c2359950aa099d08
[09:51] <BenC> cr3: email
[09:51] <BenC> ?
[09:52] <cr3> BenC: /msg'ed it to you
[09:52] <jdong|laptop> crimsun: yeah, that's what broke it, right? where's what fixes it? when will that be available via apt?
[09:52] <jdong|laptop> crimsun: linking a baffled forum user to a git commit won't do the trick
[09:52] <crimsun> huh? I thought reverting it _fixed_ the symptoms.
[09:53] <jdong|laptop> crimsun: hmm, the recent kernel update _caused_ these problems, apparently :)
[09:53] <mdz> jdong|laptop: it's up now, linux-restricted-modules 2.6.15.11-4
[09:53] <BenC> cr3: sent
[09:54] <jdong|laptop> mdz: yep, saw that. thanks. that resolves the nvidia issues :)
[09:54] <BenC> yeah for long distance phone conferences
[09:54] <mdz> jdong|laptop: the via issue is bug 52649
[09:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52649 in linux-source-2.6.15 "VIA IRQ quirk changes in 2.6.15-26.44 have broken various VIA devices" [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52649
[09:54] <BenC> s/yeah/yay/
[09:54] <jdong|laptop> mdz: I've put up a global announcement on the forums already...
[09:54] <mdz> jdong|laptop: thank you
[09:54] <jdong|laptop> mdz: yep, np. thanks for the via link, too
[09:55] <Burgwork> pitti, so issue is fixed?
[09:55] <ajmitch> morning
[09:55] <pitti> Burgwork: yes, it's out, tested, and announced
[09:55] <crimsun> jdong|laptop: unless git timestamps are playing tricks on me, that _is_ the commit.
[09:56] <cr3> BenC: wow! that is some workaround, I'm impressed how you could come up with something like that
[09:56] <Burgwork> pitti, done
[09:56] <jdong|laptop> crimsun: I think they are.... BenC just said in the launchpad ticket that it's gonna be in the _next_ upload
[09:56] <jdong|laptop> the fix
[09:57] <pitti> Burgwork: merci
[09:57] <BenC> cr3: it's pretty common, most ppl just don't know about it :)
[09:57] <Burgwork> de nada
[09:58] <jdong|laptop> Burgwork: your french needs some work ;)
[09:58] <pitti> sounded like Spanish :)
[09:58] <jdong|laptop> yeah, sure did
[09:59] <Burgwork> jdong, yes, my french does need work
[09:59] <cr3> BenC: is this something totally specific to the sk98lin or other drivers as well?
[10:00] <BenC> cr3: You can add pci id's to any pci driver using that method
[10:00] <jdong|laptop> hey, kudos to everyone on how fast the nvidia problem got fixed. impressive :)
[10:01] <cr3> BenC: /sys/bus/pci/drives/sk98lin seems to be a file on system76's system
[10:02] <cr3> BenC: scratch that, something weird is going on
[10:03] <BenC> yeah, that would have been weird :)
[10:03] <cr3> BenC: I told him to change the ">" with "| sudo tee" and sudo apparently segfaulted. weird
[10:07] <cr3> BenC: weird, input/output error when trying to cat the file
[10:07] <Treenaks> cr3: sudo cat | tee
[10:08] <Treenaks> cr3: not cat | sudo tee
[10:08] <mdz> BenC: there is a report in the forums about a problem with fglrx; it could easily be a misunderstanding but it needs to be investigated anyway just in case: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=257353&page=2
[10:08] <BenC> mdz: probably same issue as nvidia
[10:09] <cr3> Treenaks: the original command was echo 'foo' > /file/owned/by/root which I suggested changing to echo 'foo' | sudo tee /file/owned/by/root
[10:10] <jdong|laptop> mdz, BenC: another fglrx one : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=257405&highlight=fglrx
[10:11] <BenC> cr3: I/O error n read is expected
[10:12] <BenC> cr3: sudo -l root
[10:12] <BenC> then do the command
[10:14] <BenC> cr3: oops, wrong command, "sudo /bin/bash"
[10:15] <_ion> benc: Rather sudo -i or sudo -s
[10:15] <BenC> one of them there to get you a root shell
[10:17] <cr3> BenC: he tried your echo and gets "no such file or directory", he tried ls and find, the file is there.
[10:18] <mdz> BenC: it should be straightforward to confirm that
[10:18] <BenC> mdz: yeah
[10:18] <BenC> if it's "missing symbol boot_cpu_data"
[10:18] <BenC> then that's it
[10:19] <mdz> the one I saw didn't provide any details
[10:19] <shaya> is there a better way to extract meta data of installed packages then constantly calling dpkg --status $package and greping for the meta data?
[10:19] <mdz> shaya: dpkg-query
[10:20] <BenC> cr3: that's an odd error
[10:20] <cr3> BenC: he is using a root shell, trying to cat the file is still returning input/output error. weird
[10:21] <shaya> mdz: doesn't seem to be different for my purposes.  I'm trying to extract version, dependency, conflict, provide relationships
[10:21] <shaya> for a research project I'm doing based on edgy
[10:21] <mdz> shaya: man dpkg-query, search for showformat
[10:21] <BenC> root@grayson:/sys/bus/pci/drivers/ohci1394# echo 11ba:4471 > new_id 
[10:21] <BenC> root@grayson:/sys/bus/pci/drivers/ohci1394# 
[10:21] <BenC> cr3: the command works for me
[10:22] <BenC> cr3: I just did it on a random pci driver with a random id, but it took it
[10:22] <mdz> BenC: 
[10:22] <mdz> [ 1787.044040]  fglrx: disagrees about version of symbol boot_cpu_data
[10:22] <mdz> [ 1787.044075]  fglrx: Unknown symbol boot_cpu_data
[10:22] <shaya> I see
[10:22] <BenC> mdz: fixed with lrm rebuild then
[10:23] <cr3> ~# cat /sys/bus/pci/drivers/PIIX_IDE/new_id
[10:23] <cr3> cat: /sys/bus/pci/drivers/PIIX_IDE/new_id: Permission denied
[10:23] <jdong_> BenC: so does murphy's law state that every module you didn't check would depend on boot_cpu_data? ;-)
[10:23] <cr3> BenC: I'm getting a permission denied as well, you're running a freaky shell
[10:24] <BenC> cr3: I did "sudo /bin/bash; echo xxxx.xxxx > new_id"
[10:24] <mdz> BenC: yes, but means that the problem was more widespread than we thought
[10:24] <mdz> jdong|laptop: confirmed that both nvidia and fglrx are affected
[10:24] <mdz> jdong|laptop: so those users are experiencing the same bug
[10:24] <mdz> the rest of l-r-m is OK
[10:24] <BenC> mdz: true
[10:26] <cr3> BenC: I'm also getting permission denied and I'm using sudo bash
[10:26] <BenC> privmsg me a transcript of you running that command
[10:27] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: please accept bluez-utils_3.1-1ubuntu10_source.changes once it's up.
[10:30] <zul> mdz: are you going to be around later?
[10:32] <mdz> zul: I expect to be
[10:32] <zul> mdz: ok great..
[10:32] <zul> ttyl
[10:35] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: isn't the publisher disabled?
[10:36] <Keybuk> yes, it is
[10:36] <Keybuk> so it won't "get" up
[10:37] <BenC> pitti: We still doing the dapper-security (and hoary/breezy) uploads tomorrow?
[10:43] <mbiebl> lamont: Is there a reason, why /etc/init.d/postfix calls lsb_release?
[10:44] <mbiebl> This slows down my boot process quite a bit (~5sec)
[10:44] <mbiebl> Seems lsb_release calls apt-cache, which needs a lot of I/O
[10:46] <slomo> pitti: now i'm there
[10:46] <SlicerDicer-> Kamion: are you about?
[10:51] <pitti> BenC: whenever they are ready
[10:51] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: please extend GNU unifont rather than replacing it; I really don't want to switch to something different at present
[10:51] <BenC> pitti: Ok, I'm working on dapper right now
[10:51] <pitti> slomo: hm, I forgot what I wanted to ask you :/
[10:51] <pitti> slomo: ah, right, something about CD testing, but it's sorted out already
[10:52] <slomo> pitti: ok :) what's the state of the cds now btw?
[10:52] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: (replacing characters is fine of course, I just don't want to be told to switch to a different font which will then be suboptimal for some other language)
[10:52] <Keybuk> Kamion: is the publisher meant to be disabled?
[10:53] <pitti> slomo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
[10:54] <Kamion> Keybuk: it's not?
[10:54] <Kamion> $ sudo -u lp_publish crontab -l
[10:54] <Kamion> MAILTO=lp_archive
[10:54] <Kamion> 3 * * * * /srv/launchpad.net/codelines/current/cronscripts/publishing/cron.daily
[10:54] <pitti> we disabled it for the emergency l-r-m update, but I guess it can be re-enabled now
[10:54] <Kamion> oh, nothing to do with me then :)
[10:54] <Kamion> SlicerDicer-: briefly
[10:54] <SlicerDicer-> Kamion: I will just shoot you a email no worries
[10:55] <Keybuk> Kamion: uh, someone so reactivated it in the last ten minutes then
[10:55] <Keybuk> in fact, I bet someone just went "oh fuck" and silently reactivated
[10:55] <Kamion> SlicerDicer-: ok
[10:55] <Keybuk> lp_publish@drescher:~$ crontab -l
[10:55] <Keybuk> MAILTO=lp_archive
[10:55] <Keybuk> #3 * * * * /srv/launchpad.net/codelines/current/cronscripts/publishing/cron.daily
[10:55] <Keybuk> *minutes later*
[10:55] <Keybuk> lp_publish@drescher:~$ crontab -l
[10:55] <Keybuk> MAILTO=lp_archive
[10:55] <Keybuk> 3 * * * * /srv/launchpad.net/codelines/current/cronscripts/publishing/cron.daily

[10:58] <jdong> on a sidenote, I can't believe the forums have stayed up given the increased traffic with today's fun :)
[10:59] <Keybuk> today's fun?
[11:00] <pitti> Keybuk: breaking X again, what else :-P
[11:00] <jdong> Keybuk: kernel update, x breakage, what else is new around here? ;P
[11:00] <beuno> nvidia only this time  :D
[11:00] <Keybuk> oh, ABI change with the kernel weekly exploit dose?
[11:00] <jdong> beuno: naw, nvidia too.. sky2 networking, via sound
[11:00] <pitti> Keybuk: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-346-2
[11:00] <jdong> beuno: I meant fglrx
[11:00] <Keybuk> SERVES THEM RIGHT FOR NOT OPE...oh, wait, I have an nvidia too...
[11:01] <jdong> LOL
[11:01] <_ion> :-D
[11:01] <beuno> heh
[11:01] <AlinuxOS> Hello, http://alinuxos.no-ip.org/debian-installer.png I can't find this English string in debian-installer.po file, can someone help me ?
[11:01] <jdong> Keybuk: and I'm sure that's the reason all of this happened :)
[11:01] <jdong> Keybuk: after all, it's not like the source code to nvidia.ko is what we compile or anything
[11:01] <Keybuk> jdong: we don't have most of the source to nvidia.ko
[11:01] <Keybuk> it's a .o file
[11:02] <cr3> can anyone actually read or write new_id files under /sys/bus/pci/drivers? I really have no clue how BenC manages to pull it off
[11:02] <jdong> Keybuk: we have enough of it to make it binary-compatible with the frickin kernel update :P
[11:02] <Keybuk> cr3: explain
[11:02] <cr3> Keybuk: as root, I get "Permission denied"
[11:02] <beuno> jdong: do you have any idea how many ppl were affected thistime?
[11:02] <Keybuk> cr3: maybe the driver doesn't support it
[11:02] <_ion> --w------- 1 root root 4096 2006-09-15 00:02 /sys/bus/pci/drivers/PIIX_IDE/new_id
[11:02] <BenC> cr3: You can NOT read the files, they can only be written to
[11:03] <Keybuk> echo -n 0000:00:00:00 > new_id  usually works for me
[11:03] <BenC> Keybuk: it's not the driver, it's the PCI subsystem, it lets them all support it
[11:03] <cr3> is the "-n" absolutely necessary? everytime system76 tried the echo, it seemd to freeze his terminal :(
[11:03] <jdong> beuno: at least around 200 people on the forums have commented on the problem
[11:03] <Keybuk> cr3: I usually do the -n when echo'ing anything to the kernel
[11:03] <BenC> cr3: if it froze his terminal, then it worked
[11:03] <Keybuk> lol
[11:04] <BenC> well, it worked in that it took the command
[11:04] <Keybuk> "if kernel crashes, then it worked"
[11:04] <BenC> check dmesg
[11:04] <BenC> well it didn't freeze the kernel, just the command blocked :P
[11:04] <Keybuk> "driver, meet this hardware, hardware meet this driver, now FIGHT!"
[11:04] <beuno> jdong: so it's pretty big...
[11:04] <Keybuk> why does the command block like that?
[11:04] <cr3> BenC: ok, thanks, I was worried there for a moment.
[11:04] <jdong> beuno: despite how miraculously fast the ubuntu team reacted, unfortunately a number of users were affected, yes. 
[11:04] <BenC> it blocks because it starts a driver bind/probe
[11:05] <cr3> BenC: are changes to /sys/.../new_id permanent or is there some file I should modify for changes to be permanent?
[11:05] <beuno> jdong: any idea what happend with the idea to add an extra step before these things get into the repos?
[11:05] <BenC> cr3: it does not last across reboots, no
[11:05] <jdong> beuno: people don't really test and report back?
[11:05] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, maybe you know why I can't find this string:  http://alinuxos.no-ip.org/debian-installer.png
[11:05] <jdong> beuno: BenC had a rant about that earlier :)
[11:05] <BenC> cr3: that command would have to be added to an init script, or done after each boot
[11:06] <jdong> beuno: and I can tell you the same thing from backports.... people don't tell you it breaks UNTIL you move it into the stable repos :P
[11:06] <beuno> jdong: great, add me to it  ;)
[11:06] <cr3> BenC: at the end of rc.local should be fine? I'm just afraid of what will happen to the following rc scripts because of that crashing behavior
[11:06] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: that's an Ubuntu-specific string; you'll find it in debian-installer in Rosetta
[11:07] <Kamion> should be in the kbd-chooser section
[11:07] <beuno> jdong: so what's the plan?  I thought that would contain these problems a bit more, but if it's not the solution...
[11:07] <jdong> beuno: I don't know what's the plan. I'd like to know too.... I don't make such calls around here ;-)
[11:07] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, Edgy-s debian-installer is not translatable in this moment...what can I do ?
[11:08] <jdong> beuno: you're gonna have to poke different people in this room for that info
[11:08] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: well, for starters that string won't be relevant in edgy :-)
[11:08] <Keybuk> BenC: isn't the driver bind/probe supposed to unblock eventually though?
[11:08] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: we'll get it sorted out soon, but the code needs to be in place first
[11:08] <BenC> cr3: I'm a little worried that it gives an error, I'd like to see the dmesg output from the addition of the command
[11:09] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, won't be relevant ? :)You mean that this string will change or something similar ?
[11:09] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: that's a string in kbd-chooser, which is being replaced by console-setup; the strings in console-setup are different
[11:09] <BenC> Keybuk: it does, he said it hangs for  a bit then errors
[11:09] <Kamion> so there is essentially no point in translating that string
[11:09] <beuno> well, I'm off, will check later to see who else needs to get walked through the breakages
[11:10] <beuno> good luck  ;D
[11:10] <Kamion> interesting, that string indeed doesn't seem to be in the .pot file
[11:10] <Keybuk> BenC: ahh, I usually just see that hang forever
[11:11] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, it would be great if rosetta-s guys order modules by importance. So in this way translators can understand which module is more-less important.
[11:11] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: oh, you didn't tell me that was edgy :-)
[11:11] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: that *is* the console-setup string
[11:11] <AlinuxOS> ah
[11:11] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: I'll get it added to the master d-i .pot file tomorrow
[11:12] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, thank you.
[11:12] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: they already do have some degree of ordering by importance, as I understand things
[11:12] <Kamion> and there is a rough importance ordering in debian-installer.pot
[11:12] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, great.
[11:12] <jdong> mdz: one of the most common questions we get at the forums after an incident like this is "what is gonna be done to prevent this in the future"
[11:12] <jdong> mdz: do you/Canonical have anything official you'd like us to tell forum users?
[11:13] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, debian installer uses gnu unifont right ?
[11:13] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: yes
[11:14] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, so I must change georgian font section, actual fonts are not proprortional at all and very ugly...unbelivably ugly :)
[11:15] <lamont> mbiebl: to figure out where it is.
[11:15] <mdz> jdong: I can't give you an official response at this time; we're still dealing with the immediate problem
[11:16] <lamont> mbiebl: otoh, the init script doesn't actually use the result.
[11:16] <jdong> mdz: ok, that's fine
[11:16] <cr3> BenC: nothing appears in dmesg, sk98lin module is still there, ifconfig eth0 up returns "no such device"
[11:17] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, are there some other modules straightly linked with debian-installer (for translation of course)?
[11:18] <mbiebl> lamont: I wasn't sure if postfix needs this environment variable.
[11:18] <mbiebl> If not, I would simply remove this check.
[11:19] <lamont> mbiebl: it's code that is in both postinst and in init.d.  at one point it was used in init.d
[11:19] <mdz> jdong: anyone who upgraded between approximately 1400 and 2000 UTC should be sure to upgrade again before their next reboot
[11:19] <mdz> if they use the proprietary drivers
[11:20] <sladen> okay,whichjokerstolenmyspacebarinX?
[11:20] <pitti> sladen: 'Empty spaces -- what are we living for?'
[11:20] <pitti> o/`
[11:21] <sladen> ./mepondersonasolution
[11:21] <pitti> copy&paste existing spaces from text files *duck*
[11:21] <AlinuxOS> pitti, The show must go on! :)
[11:21] <LaserJock> pitti: ouch
[11:22] <pitti> AlinuxOS: my space bar may be flaking, but my vi goes on
[11:22] <AlinuxOS> loooool pitti 
[11:22] <pitti> sladen: since an upgrade, or what changed?
[11:22] <jdong|laptop> mdz: I'll add that to the forum announcement. thanks!
[11:23] <pitti> s/goes on/still stays on/ of course /me sends excuses to Freddie
[11:23] <cr3> BenC: you mentionned liking to see the dmesg output from the addition of the command so I privmsg'ed it to you
[11:24] <sladen> pitti:well,quite:)
[11:25] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, console-setup or console-setup-fonts-udeb ?
[11:26] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: console-setup source package, but please don't translate it yet - we'll disable translations of that when it gets sucked into debian-installer
[11:26] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: what do you mean by "some other modules straightly linked with debian-installer"?
[11:26] <AlinuxOS> :) example: console-setup
[11:27] <Kamion> there are a whole bunch, too many to list
[11:27] <AlinuxOS> ah
[11:28] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, so we need that bunch into rosetta, listed before.
[11:29] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: with the exception of console-setup, they already are
[11:29] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/debian-installer/+translations
[11:29] <Kamion> they're all incorporated in one giant template
[11:29] <AlinuxOS> Some people (like me), translators don't know which module is more-less important. So when you have mature consol-setup and debian-installer it will be super to have everything listed in rosetta in first page.
[11:29] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: translators should just go to debian-installer
[11:29] <Kamion> one module
[11:29] <Kamion> it has everything in an appropriate order for translation
[11:29] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, super.
[11:30] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, thank you very much for info! ;)
[11:30] <Kamion> np
[11:33] <jdong|laptop> LOL, you guys will get a laugh out of this one
[11:33] <jdong|laptop> "My MCSE (microsoft certified service engineer) teacher was telling me today in class that open source means that the programmer got stuck and didn't finish the program, which is why open office is so bad. is this true?"
[11:35] <SEJeff> jdong|laptop: And thats why Ubuntu won't play mp3s after I install it, right? </sarcasm>
[11:35] <jdong|laptop> :)
[11:35] <AlinuxOS> openoffice is so bad ???hm I don't think so.
[11:35] <SlicerDicer-> jdong: I would use the phase "excuse me can you repeat that in english please, I have not been to studies on stupid yet"
[11:35] <SEJeff> jdong|laptop: And someone should ask that guy why M$ used so much "open source" bsd code in their early tcp/ip stack :)
[11:36] <SEJeff> his reaction to his own stupidity: Priceless...
[11:36] <jdong|laptop> SEJeff: so MS can finish it? *ducks*
[11:36] <SlicerDicer-> ohh no SEJeff I am sure he would figure a way to say ohh that never happend just to raise his stupidness level.
[11:37] <SlicerDicer-> lol jdong|laptop 
[11:37] <SEJeff> jdong|laptop: I have a buddy that actually believes what you just said. SlicerDicer-: And thats why people like us are here to prove him wrong
[11:37] <jdong|laptop> SEJeff: I've worked at an all-Microsoft camp. you won't believe some of the firefox myths I've had to put up with
[11:38] <SlicerDicer-> SEJeff: don't you mean "had" ;-)
[11:38] <Burgwork> guys, this is -devel, please keep the chatter to a minimum
[11:38] <Burgwork> guys, this is -devel, please keep the chatter to a minimum
[11:38] <SlicerDicer-> sorry Burgwork 
[11:50] <Frederick> does anyone ever managed to get debbug info for image magick in ubuntu?